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171 - Valentine: The Dark Avenger (2017) w/ Mike Snoonian
76 Plays1 year ago
"This is not the end of my story. This is only the beginning.”
…or is it?? In accordance with our annual Valentine’s Day tradition, we’ve invited our buddy Mike Snoonian from The Pod and the Pendulum to talk about a Valentine’s Day movie in name only! We talk about the origins of the titular superhero, debate the artistic merits of this big screen adaptation, talk about the rocky production history, and discuss just how difficult it is to find any information on this film!
Track down the not-so-shadowy Mike Snoonian on the following social platforms:
- Check out The Pod and the Pendulum on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts!
- Support The Pod and the Pendulum on Patreon for some great bonus content!
- @podandpendulum on Twitter X; @pod_and_the_pendulum on Instagram; @podandthependulum on Bluesky
- @mikechumpchange on Letterboxd; @mike_snoonian on Twitter X; @mikesnoonian on Bluesky
Join us in the fight against evil by following our social media presence:
- @Disenfranchpod on Bluesky, Facebook, Instagram, Letterboxd, and YouTube
- Email us your thoughts or requests to disenfranchpod@gmail.com
- Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify!
- Find Stephen at @ChewyWalrus on Bluesky, Instagram, and Letterboxd
- Find Brett at @sus_warlock on Instagram and Letterboxd or @suswarlock on Bluesky
- Find Tucker at @icenine09 on YouTube and Instagram and @tuck_mugs on Instagram
- Join our Patreon for exclusive bonus content, including our recent Unenfranchised episode on The Rage: Carrie 2 at https://patreon.com/Disenfranchpod
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Transcript
Introduction to Valentine's Episode
00:00:20
Speaker
I'll sing one for you.
00:00:22
Speaker
love is in the air here at the disenfranchised podcast. That's right. That podcast all about those franchises of one, those films that fancy themselves full fledged franchises before falling flat on their face after the first film have gotten nipped by the love bug. It's our Valentine's Day episode. And you know what that means. It means I'm your host, Stephen Foxworthy joined as always by the man with that look. It's Tucker. Hey, Tucker. Hi, Stephen. How's it going? It's going, man. It's going.
00:00:52
Speaker
How are things going with you tonight, buddy? I'm okay. Like I said before, I ate a few too many hot wings. The food of love, hot wings. I'm taking deep breaths, straight up trying not to barf. Please do. You're drinking maybe some almond milk or something to maybe settle your stomach down a little bit. I poured a shot of bourbon here, though.
00:01:20
Speaker
You think that would help. I mean, I've got I've got some of that in my in my diet co-care. So I've just been I've been trying to hit my pin so that my stomach will feel better or like I won't care about it. Does that make you like better or worse? Well, I have two new cartridges and neither of them seem to want to work very well. So. I'm sorry. It's a little frustrating. That is frustrating, especially this evening. Right.
00:01:48
Speaker
And of course, it wouldn't be a Valentine's Day episode of the disenfranchised podcast unless we had our eternal snuggle buddy, the cuddliest of bunnies, our perennial and eternal Valentine, now and forever, from the pod and the pendulum, our good friend, Mr.
Guest Introduction and Film Selection
00:02:06
Speaker
Mike Snuney. And Mike, welcome back. Howdy, howdy. How we doing tonight, ma'am? Doing well. It's been a week.
00:02:13
Speaker
Yeah. It's been a week. Yeah. Well, hey, it's over now. It is. Must have been love. But it's over now. Well, I mean, look, at the time of this recording, it's Friday. I'm in love. So I've also heard that you've got to get down on Friday because everybody's waiting for the weekend, right? Working for the weekend, even. No, like when my friends come pull up in the car, which seat will I choose?
00:02:43
Speaker
And I mean it in here in a few days, it's gonna be a Blue Blue Monday, so. And that's cool. Song references.
00:02:51
Speaker
Mike, a couple of months ago, or I guess it was probably back in November when we were first kicking around the idea of you coming back for, because I've always got a spot for you on this episode, the week before Valentine's Day or the episode that drops before Valentine's Day. I know I'm putting Mike on the schedule and I reached out to you with a list of films saying, hey, these are kind of vaguely Valentine's themed. And there was one in particular that stood out to you and it's the film we're talking about tonight.
00:03:19
Speaker
And that is the Indonesian superhero film, Valentine, The Dark Avenger from 2017. What is it that drew you to this film in particular, Mike? I'm curious. It wasn't Valentine's Day, the romantic comedy. It wasn't. Yes.
00:03:46
Speaker
Okay. That was it. I mean, that was really it. I don't think I saved that one, though. I think it was. Can we go back and can we check the tape as they say?
Exploring 'Valentine, The Dark Avenger'
00:03:57
Speaker
Let let's go back and let's look at the history here. So I am going to folks. There's nothing more exciting on a podcast than people going back and looking at their Twitter history. I am one of my favorite things. It is. Absolutely. So this is and Stephen's like, great. Now I get to go back and edit this later on down the road. Oh, Tucker does the editing. It's fine. Oh, Stephen, I love this.
00:04:23
Speaker
No, this is fine. We're within the first four minutes. So if there's any pauses over two seconds, I mean, it's early. I'm probably in the editing process. I'm still adjusting volumes and making sure everything's good. So easy. Early in the podcast, easy. Make all the mistakes you want. He's also he's he's probably also killing my mic for because I got I got a cat chasing a ball. Here are the choices we got.
00:04:50
Speaker
I think you're absolutely right. Oh, here we go. This is what you gave me. Yep. The RoboCop reboot. Barbarella fifth wave. Oh, that was our first coming up. Yeah, that was all for stuff coming up in advance of this episode. OK, so you are correct. Valentine's Day.
00:05:13
Speaker
The romantic comedy was not one of the choices. I don't know why. Oh, the love guru. Yeah, that's why I think that might have been the one that you. Yeah, I couldn't do that. I couldn't do. I couldn't do the love girl with Mike Myers. Couldn't do it. I mean, I wasn't going to subject myself to that. I did give you a couple of horror ones on there, too. And you went for the foreign superhero because I.
00:05:35
Speaker
never get to not talk about horror. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I have multitudes. You do. You do. And you and I have talked about non horror movies before. We talked about the Muppets. We've talked about the Muppets. We've talked about the Friends of Eddie Coyle. That's right. The killers. Did you end up seeing the Friends of Eddie Coyle? I finally watched it. Yeah. And what did you think of it? It was rad ass. It was rad ass is what I just said. Not even bad ass. It was rad ass.
00:06:00
Speaker
Number four, Bobby Orr. So good. Mad Rad. And you're right, it was right up my alley. I enjoyed it so much. At the time, I would have given it four stars out of five. But now that I've seen this movie, every movie I've ever reviewed retroactively gets an extra star.
00:06:20
Speaker
Tucker says I'm not even going to read the text that he sent me after he watched this movie. OK. But he's not a fan. I guess we can we can say. But the 2017 film Valentine, directed by a goose H. Mowardi, I'm going to I'm just I should probably just up top say I'm going to butcher a lot of names and I am very sorry about that.
00:06:46
Speaker
to everyone who is of Indonesian descent or from Indonesia. I apologize. Written a screenplay by, uh, Bebi Hasibwan, based on a character created by Aswin Siragar, Aswin M.C. Siragar, and Sargono Sutris, Sutrisno, excuse me, and starring Estelle Linden, Ari Dega Winks,
00:07:13
Speaker
Matthew Settle, Amada Fandi, and many others that I dare not attempt to pronounce.
Film Background and Origins
00:07:20
Speaker
What a cast. What a picture. What a picture. Yep. So, did anyone have any previous knowledge of this character prior to this movie? I think I know the answer to this question.
00:07:40
Speaker
Not at all, but it wasn't Mike Myers and the love girl. I mean, you're right. You are correct. It was definitely not that. What it was is a low budget foreign superhero film that really seemed very inspired by every era of Batman ever from Adam West all the way up through Snyder.
00:08:06
Speaker
which I thought was interesting to see what elements they kind of borrowed from each era of the Batman. And one of the person who gets the story by credit is one of the creators of the character, so I'm going to assume this is all comic accurate.
Technical Evaluation and Critique
00:08:24
Speaker
To our listeners who don't know, this is based on the Indonesian comics character Valentine, based on the Skylar Comics character Valentine. I do not know that the comics have been translated to English or released in the United States.
00:08:41
Speaker
I have not been able to locate them. I have tried extensively. Ever since Mike picked this episode, I've been looking. Haven't found anything. The Skylar Comics website is defunct. Nothing about the company is listed on Wikipedia at all. I had to do some digging to research this one because this might as well not exist.
00:09:07
Speaker
You telling me she never ended up fighting that Rocket guy in like the third mid-credits sequence?
00:09:14
Speaker
We'll get to that because that's a mid-credits sequence. Oh, there are like five. I did not. What happens is 30 seconds of credits and then like a minute and a half scene and then 30 seconds of credits. And they even like fade the song in and out. And it's the same song. It's that terrible, terrible rap song with a guy. You're almost like, wait, is there's no way that's Dr. Dre? No, that's not Dr. Dre. OK. It is a very bad rap song. He wants to be Dr. Dre so bad.
00:09:44
Speaker
The only thing worse than the R&B song and the rap song, which might be the same song, I'm not sure. The only thing worse than the actual music and presentation of those songs is the lyrics. Wow.
00:10:01
Speaker
Yes, the my the two year old toddler that works with me and that works with me. We work together. We're colleagues that work in Arkansas. He could he could have written clothes, written better lyrics, and he only knows like a handful of words.
00:10:20
Speaker
I would have been about crackers and juice, but like it would have been better. They say justice a lot. They're talking about the purple mask a lot. Yeah. Like it's a it's a whole thing. I mean, there is a Batgirl vibe to this character like down to the costume. Right. I mean, that is definitely the vibe. Absolutely. Definitely getting here. Some kick ass mixed in there, too. Absolutely. A little hit girl.
00:10:45
Speaker
especially in terms of the social media angle of it, which I think was probably fairly novel in 2017, at least in certain parts of the world.
00:10:56
Speaker
I mean Tucker Tucker's face right now like I know again podcasting being a very visual media but he said I can't believe I had to like not only watch this movie but like talk about it and and and not to mention that compounded with the physical discomfort of all the hot wings he's just he's just having the night of his life right now you can tell you can see it all over his face
00:11:19
Speaker
Yeah, you guys, this this movie hurt me like I feel personally attacked by this film. And in that attack, I was injured somehow. You said you were getting motion sickness because of the editing and fight choreography. Well, and that's.
00:11:36
Speaker
that it's just so bad you guys everything about it is horrible every second of this movie like I had to put so much effort into watching this movie because it actively did not want me to watch it it was so uninteresting and boring and stupid that like it was so diff I had to put my phone across the room so I wouldn't pick it up and start looking at stuff
00:12:03
Speaker
I had to like, I almost at one point, I almost had to clockwork orange myself, you know what I mean? Because like it was, I could not stay interested. I couldn't even pretend to stay interested in this movie. Sorry. Go ahead, everyone. I just, oh, it's so bad. I had it ahead of my Iron Man 2.
00:12:25
Speaker
Oh, really? Steven gave it two stars. Oh, sorry. Spoilers. But like I saw that, I'm like, did we watch the same movie? Maybe I saw the directors cut. Maybe that's what it was. I don't know. Maybe. No, it's an hour and thirty seven minutes. We watched the same one. I mean, I watched a lot of 90s track like in this game, me that like 90s straight to video, go to the video store and bring home
00:12:54
Speaker
like a bad action movie, bad comic book adaptation feel right to it. So maybe it hit like a bit of like a warmer.
00:13:03
Speaker
nostalgia spot for me, like we're like, you know, Flunder and Punisher or a Matt Salinger, Captain America kind of a thing. Yeah, like I'm not going to argue that it's particularly well made. And I watched it the same night that I watched Anatomy of a Fall, which is like one of the, you know, and I would say like it's maybe a half a tick below in terms of the filmmaking skill that's going on there. Maybe, you know, like a hair below.
00:13:33
Speaker
So but like I didn't hate it. Like I actually quite enjoyed watching it. Like it definitely brought back a little bit of nostalgia for me in terms of like that renting something at the video store that wasn't quite great. But sitting around like the living room floor with like pizza and soda with friends and maybe like
00:13:59
Speaker
not mocking is maybe too strong a word, but like kind of like laughing at a movie with friends and you know, like an MST 3K vibe. That's something that I kept thinking to myself when I was watching this. And this is this is the worst thing that I could possibly say about a film is that I wouldn't even watch this.
00:14:19
Speaker
if it were on Mystery Science Theater, nay, I don't like New Mystery Science Theater. If it were on Mystery Science Theater, season seven through 10, I still would not watch it. I still would not be able to get through this sucker. It's a miracle that happened tonight. I only did it for the pod. I did it for you guys. That's right. And you'd do it again if we asked you to.
00:14:44
Speaker
I would because I would bitch a lot. I know you about it. Like I will. So I can bitch. You really I know. You really liked the flash, right?
00:14:57
Speaker
Yeah, I had a lot of fun with that. That was fun. Not a good movie. Not a good movie, but it was really fun. And I enjoyed The Flash more than most. Me too. And The Flash is a better made film. I'm not going to argue that it's... But The Flash had infinitely more resources to throw at it than something like this. I would say on a per dollar basis for what this movie had,
00:15:24
Speaker
Versus like what the flash had I would say that you get about the same results like in a cost per dollar Like what you're gonna I would even say like some of the fight sequences in here Like some of the martial arts skill that is shown here is maybe even a little better than what you're getting with like Ezra Miller who
00:15:47
Speaker
It's unfortunate because he's actually quite a talented performer. It's unfortunate that he is who he is as a human being, which I would say. They're pretty awful person. Yeah, I agree. Oh, that's correct. They they they I forgot that that is their pronoun so that they are not maybe the necessary. They are not the best human being in terms of the choices they've made in life and what they've done.
00:16:14
Speaker
And we're forgiving of multi million dollar spectacle theater. And like, this is much, much smaller. And there's a lot fewer resources that are going into it. So I have a harder time coming down on it. As hard as I would say, like something where you have like all the resources that Warner Brothers can throw at something. Right.
00:16:40
Speaker
Like that's where I'd throw my anger at something if I really didn't like something. This feels a lot more like a labor of love to me like someone cared about this and you can kind of see that on the screen like and I'm gonna be honest with you I feel like I would give this movie at least an extra half star.
00:17:01
Speaker
If I were watching the sub, just a subtitled version of it in its original language and not the dub that we get with the American version of it, because that dub is.
00:17:12
Speaker
pretty egregious in points. There are times when I feel like the dub inhibits the performance the actual original actor is giving. I'm thinking specifically of the scene where Sri, the main character, is visiting her father's grave. And she's crying and sobbing and asking, why did you give up? She's questioning her father on this thing that has clearly haunted her for her entire life. And the actress giving the voiceover is just like,
00:17:42
Speaker
screaming and it doesn't feel like the performance that I'm watching and the performance that I'm hearing are clearly two very different performances. And it's very off-putting for me as I'm watching this thing just going, I don't like this at all.
00:17:59
Speaker
You know, it's funny that you say that, Steven, about this feeling like a labor of love. And that's, you know, that's the cool thing about art and perception and shit is that we're two completely different people. And we saw the same movie, but we saw two completely different things because this was the most soulless piece of shit I've ever seen in my life.
00:18:19
Speaker
Mike, you were talking earlier about those movies you'd written in the 90s. I was also that kid who had written those movies, too. And those movies sucked, but they were trying. You could tell people were trying and people were having fun making these and putting everything into them. That's why you enjoyed them. You're not because they were good. But this movie, to me, I didn't feel any of that. It just felt like soulless garbage to me.
00:18:44
Speaker
That's how did you feel about the police captain, though, who did come in fourth place in the Edward J. Almos look alike contest at the at the Des Moines County Fair? We had to feel pretty good about that.
00:19:02
Speaker
He he was not the worst performance. I think the worst performance for me was the main character's mother. Oh, she was pretty. Both the actress and especially the voiceover actress. But she's not in it that much. I mean, she's in it for all of two seasons. She's she's in it enough to where that sticks out to me because it was so horrible. Right. But it's a pretty one of the horrible performances.
00:19:28
Speaker
I mean, it is a very one note performance. Yeah, she it's a stereotypical nagging disappointed, disappointed mom. And it's like a cultural stereotype as well. Like it's very much a cultural stereotype.
00:19:44
Speaker
Mom, like I'm disappointed in my daughter. She's dropped out of school. You're a disappointment to the family. Yeah, you know, and she's in it from she has maybe two to three minutes of screen time, like altogether. Right. I mean, in a 90 and it's a movie that zips along. I mean, it's it probably felt like the longest 90. But if you want to feel your age, if you want to feel like time has crawled to a standstill,
00:20:11
Speaker
Go and watch Ghost of Frankenstein, which is 68 minutes. Oh man. And you will feel like you have watched.
00:20:19
Speaker
Killers of the Flower Moon three times. You feel like you have aged because that movie just rags. Time has passed. The sun has gone from one side of the sky to the other. Right. But yeah, it is paced. That movie is that movie is paced abominably. But yeah, it's no I I definitely agree. I think.
00:20:43
Speaker
I mean, first of all, I think the voice actor is also doing an Edward James almost impression to like, which just makes it much better for the captain. Yeah. Yeah. Which should be amazing if the mom was doing it. Honestly, into it, honestly, that would be the honestly, that would be great if the mom's just why? Starbuck, why are
Skylar Comics Cinematic Universe
00:21:04
Speaker
you not? I can't do ever try, but.
00:21:08
Speaker
I mean, I would say this movie does a really weird thing. You mentioned the social media aspect is like we haven't talked about the hook of this movie is where there is like a character named Bono, who. Is decided that he wants to make a superhero movie because he wants to inspire the persons of this city that are somehow feel downtrodden for some reason in his youth in particular, the youth in particular.
00:21:36
Speaker
And he's like, I don't want to film a superhero movie because like that is where all the money is. I want to do a superhero movie to inspire the youth. But he's been shot down, which to me is like, no, man, if you want to make money, the producer is like, no, we're not going to do this.
00:21:54
Speaker
Yeah, the producer is just like I literally says I don't like to make money. Yeah. Yeah, which is ironic. And this movie came in on twenty seventeen. So like almost a decade after Iron Man. So it's like, sir. Yeah. You know, have you even? No, he is not clearly. Right. So his idea.
00:22:21
Speaker
I love that his name is Bono. I absolutely love that. And he has one like and he has one like he does. And that'll be important later on when I do my 60 second synopsis for the joke I have. That was one where they.
00:22:35
Speaker
That was one where they got me because during that scene, he's just like touching his leg and I'm like, oh, here we go again. Some dumb shit I don't need to see. And then they're like, haha, some dumb shit you do need to see. And I was like, oh, you got me, movie, you son of a bitch. Yeah, because like, you know, he's he has his assistant. I can't remember the assistant's name. Well, why can't. OK, we'll say it's all one. Sure. Why not? The designer.
00:23:02
Speaker
Sure. Yeah, that's the one. OK, you're much better at this than me. I'm also looking at the cast list right now. Yeah, because I'll watch a movie and be like, yeah, the main monster in that movie with Frankenstein. Sure, you bet. Yeah, you know, like Frankenstein. That's the one. The guy that bites people. Dracula. Yes.
00:23:22
Speaker
Yes, that's that's the hairy guy, the wolf man. Sure. Yes. If you say so. So, you know, Bato, he's like, I need my superhero, but he still hasn't found what he's looking for. We're going to do a lot of that. We're going to do a lot of that tonight. Can't wait. Right. His idea. I might do one. Absolutely. Just the one. Very good. That was a pretty fly joke. That was that was great. There was some edge to it.
00:23:55
Speaker
I can't do like a Larry Mullins, like, you know, there's no, but there's, his idea is like, what I'm going to do is like, he finds Sremaya and he's like, we're going to hire you to be our act. Cause he sees her like kicking ass and he's like, you're going to be my Valentine. But his idea is like, you're going to actually go out and fight real crime and we're going to film it to drum up publicity.
00:24:23
Speaker
but he just has her keep doing that. There's no script. There are no other actors that we know of. There aren't. No, it's very Bofinger-esque in that regard. Right. It's just like- Oh, I like that movie. Could you talk about that movie instead? Bofinger, great movie. I haven't watched that. Steve Martin, Eddie Murphy, fuck yeah. Frank Oz, yeah. Was Bofinger thought of as a great movie when it came out? No. Okay, I didn't think so.
00:24:52
Speaker
So it's now one of those things where now we think it's great, but it has been reclaimed. Yeah, successfully reclaimed. It's been reclaimed from who? Like the people that didn't like it. OK. Did they claim it or do they push it away? I think they would.
00:25:07
Speaker
They they threw it away, and we reclaimed it from the garbage where those people threw it away, okay? So this idea that like we're gonna like make this superhero movie But they never really make some movie like I don't think there was ever I think this is all the ruse To just make your own superhero like there's no movie
00:25:26
Speaker
Well, he dies halfway through, so we never know if there was going to be a movie or a spoiler alert. Oh, yeah, we never. This is what happens when you're a one legged man in an ass kicking contest. You get pretty much. Yeah, that was my joke.
00:25:44
Speaker
I love it. Well, why don't we just go ahead and we've done half the plot like we just did. Why don't we just just for the sake of appearances, just for funsies, go ahead and throw to the plot in 60 seconds. This is the part of the show we're normally at the behest of either the D6 of Destiny or the coin of justice, depending on how many people are on the pod. We decide which of us will recount the plot in 60 seconds. But when we have a guest like we do tonight and that guest is a special,
00:26:12
Speaker
to us as Mr. Mike Snunian, we ask if they would be willing to take a stab at the plot in 60 seconds. And Mike graciously agreed to do so. I mean, I can check those receipts if you like. But I've got 60 seconds on the clock, Mike, I will give you the 30 and 10 second warnings as I always do. The clock will start whenever you begin. So.
00:26:40
Speaker
Shadow, a masked figure in his three minions straight out of an anime convention, kidnaps some low-level criminal, bring him to his dad's home who happens to be a cop, and execute him for whatever dad's crimes were.
00:26:55
Speaker
Soon afterward we meet Srimaria and her brother Umbra and Srimaria is a disappointment to her mother who Tucker can't stand. That's very important to the plot that Tucker can't stand mom. Soon after we meet Bono and he says we need to film a movie on these streets that have no name. 30 seconds. Oh, fuck this.
00:27:16
Speaker
But he wants to make a superhero movie, but he is rejected by the producer. He finds his star Sir Maria after he she beats the crap out of a grabby patron at the cafe she works at. He makes her into Valentine, drags her out. She starts fighting crime with Wei Wan, who's filming it. Valentine becomes a
00:27:39
Speaker
Internet sensation, everybody is inspired by Valentine. She keeps fighting crime until she tries. Oh, God, keep going. You're doing great. Going. I'm doing great. You are. I want to get to I want to get to that. You're saying that with the same enthusiasm my wife does when I give her like the best 38 seconds of her. OK, keep going. I mean, it is Valentine's Day, Mike.
00:28:08
Speaker
Okay, anyway. No, you misheard. He didn't say, are you done yet? Anyway, Shadow and his shadow in his crew of anime characters take hostages at a local bank, maybe, and the police show up. He has all these demands and he starts blowing stuff up, a fight ensues.
00:28:32
Speaker
Valentine is in hot pursuit. There is a big chase. There is a fight that takes place over two vans. There are definitely streets that have no name because it's a green screen. Valentine loses for the first time. She quits being Valentine. Bono decides he wants to be a hero and tries to stop a crime. But again, when you're a one-legged man in an ass kicking contest, you get shot to death. He dies.
00:29:00
Speaker
Valentine stops. There is some sort of like climate change thing. Oh, there's a climate change thing. The cops are corrupt. Something, something, something happens. Valentine shows up. Shadow takes over the climate change conference.
00:29:18
Speaker
Valentine and shadow fight wouldn't you know it shadow is actually her brother and Umbra a number says hey the captain with police actually murdered our dad because our dad Used to be corrupt then it became a cop. He was gonna expose the other corrupt cops. He got murdered for it They made it look like a suicide Shadow slash Umbra then kills the police captain on live TV. He then gets killed and
00:29:48
Speaker
Some wacky shit happens after that. Valentine says, my fight's not over. She puts her little mask on his tombstone and then rides off on a motorcycle credits roll. And apparently there are some sort of after credits after that. So there are two, two mid credit scenes. Is there a giant robot? No, but there is a flying man who destroys a meteor.
00:30:14
Speaker
Oh, there's one where like a guy just like looks around the corner and that's I don't even know who it was or what was supposed to be happening in no context. Like, what was that? The second one. So the second one, it was Umbras. Um, the Umbras drawer in the morgue was pulled open and the body was missing. And then you see an orderly pushing a cart, presumably with Umbras dead body down a long hallway.
00:30:43
Speaker
And that's the second one. Yeah, he was shot in the head, though. I mean, I don't know anything about this comic book universe because I can't find any of the fucking comics anywhere. So I don't know if there's a character that brings people back to life, if there's a version of a Lazarus Pit or something. I have no idea.
00:31:05
Speaker
So what I do know is that they absolutely have been trying to kick off a cinematic universe based on this movie. Oh, dear. And they don't say they keep announcing shit and almost none of it comes out. Only one thing has come out so far. Another one has apparently been filmed, but they've been they've had a trailer out for like.
00:31:29
Speaker
almost three years now. See, this is seven years ago. Yes, this movie is hit. That's a long time. And you know why none of this stuff has been made, Stephen? Why, Tucker? Because nobody gives a fuck. Well, I don't think it's being made for you to. I mean, this is.
00:31:52
Speaker
This is I mean, it's an Indonesian company. These are Indonesian films that this one got released in America at all is kind of miraculous. I think they were trying to recoup some of their costs. I did I the research I had to do the links I had to go to to research this movie to find out any behind the scenes shit was extensive. I had involved a lot of translate Google Translate. I will say that and way back machine.
Dubbing Challenges and Cultural Reflection
00:32:21
Speaker
But there is there's not a lot of information out there for us to be able to access about these characters unless you speak Indonesian or Malay. And those are languages I neither speak nor understand. So but I did like I did on The Flash, I did craft a timeline that runs about 10 years of Skylar comics and the development specifically of this movie.
00:32:49
Speaker
And it is, as you might suspect, a bit of a clusterfuck. I can't believe it. I know. Let's hear it. Tough to believe. So 2011, Skyler Comics is formed by film producer Sargent Soutrisno, actor Marcelino Lafrant, and comics artist and musician Aswin M.C. Serigar.
00:33:13
Speaker
It is a subsidiary, it's formed as a subsidiary of Skylar Pictures, which is Sutri's nose production company. So Skylar Pictures and Skylar Comics both show up at the beginning of this movie, that's why. And the logo for Skylar Comics is literally just the Skylar Pictures logo with a cape and a mask. December 30th, 2012, their first comic, Volt Edition 00 debuts at Popcon Asia.
00:33:42
Speaker
December 3rd of the following year, Skyler Pictures signs a deal to produce a movie based on the comic character Volt. Volt is their flagship character. Volt is the character that we see at the end of the movie flying into the meteor to destroy it. That is their flagship character. He's like the Superman to Valentine's Batman, presumably.
00:34:05
Speaker
He has electricity-based powers, essentially. In June 25th of 2014, Valentine makes her comic's debut, and discussion surrounding a film based on that character begins immediately. The film actually enters pre-production later in 2014, so they rushed this thing into production, which on some level kind of shows.
00:34:29
Speaker
In February of the next year, they start filming. The initial release date is slated for March or April of 2015, but filming takes 121 days, so they don't hit that mark. By August, there's a trailer ready, August 2015. The trailer premieres at PopCon Asia with no confirmed release date. We go to May 2016. No fanfare.
00:34:55
Speaker
I mean, again, I'm sure there was fanfare, just not from you. And the crowd goes wild. Yay. And that was much rejoicing. In May of 2016, the director confirms that the film will be released no later than December 2016. So of course, in December of 2016, they start CGI post-production on the movie. By August of 2017, there's finally a new trailer out.
00:35:23
Speaker
And that trailer comes with a release date of November 23rd, 2017. Later in August, however, the CGI house that is responsible for the visual effects Epic Studios has a server crash. That's going to be important later because the movie does in fact come out on November 23rd, 2017.
00:35:45
Speaker
Just like Food Fight, man. Just like Food Fight. Just like Food Fight. Now, you talk about bad movies, man. Food Fight is bored. This is like an Oscar worthy masterpiece compared to Food Fight. I can't wait to watch it just to say that this is worse. I don't know how you can. I'm firm. I'm firm. I believe that this is the worst thing I've ever seen in my life. Anyone's going to find a way to prove to say that it's going to be you. It's.
00:36:12
Speaker
Three days later, on November 26, 2017, Skyler Pictures pulls the movie from theaters citing technical problems. It goes three days in theaters.
00:36:24
Speaker
A couple of days later, they release a statement and they say that the technical difficulties were a result of the server crash at Epic Studios. They say the film might be released later. There's a possibility that it'll come out, but we don't know when. And again, this is a movie they've been promising since 2014.
00:36:50
Speaker
It wasn't the result of hot wings. It was not. Wow.
00:36:58
Speaker
In May, toward the end of May 2018, May 24th, 2018, there is a web series based on another Skylar comics property called Jawara Indonesia, which is best as I can figure means champions of Indonesia that debuts on Strow TV. Strow TV is the official streaming service of Skylar Pictures. To date, it is the only other piece of media related to the Skylar universe that has yet been released. And near as I can tell, it is not available anywhere in English.
00:37:28
Speaker
Is it a universe if it's just one movie? No, they got a TV show, too. You did not hear me just say there was a TV show. Yeah, but I didn't. Estelle Linden does not appear in it, nor does Valentine. Estelle Getty, what? Estelle Linden, the actress who plays Valentine in this movie. She's not in that series. The lady from Golden Girls made a cameo and I missed it.
00:37:50
Speaker
No, but I do like the picture more if Estelle Getty was Valentine. Oh, that's a good question. Oh, I don't know. That really depends because even if even if she were in it, like the dialogue, wouldn't that be entertaining? Yes.
00:38:07
Speaker
Add, you know, to a point, but when something's as bad as this, like, that's only entertaining for a few minutes, honestly. Like, first you're like, oh, that's, that's what, that would, that would hold me, thrill me, kiss me and kill me, honestly, but only for a few minutes. Excellent. Thank you. So what you're saying, I,
00:38:31
Speaker
Blanked. I absolutely blanked. My credit, you two reference and just I just because it's been a scare one, too. That was that was out there in the weeds. Why he appreciated it, though. Well, I was going to say what you're saying is this movie is bad because that is a great U2 song, especially the live version of it. But I think people associate that with Michael Jackson.
00:38:54
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Or with this movie too, probably. Oh, so Getty, I think would elevate the material. I agree. I think so too, but like I say, for only for so long. Yeah.
00:39:05
Speaker
So I actually have some things I do like about this movie. I actually thought Estelle Linden was fun to watch in this movie. I do think that she has some skill as a martial artist. And I think the fight scene that takes place in the conference center towards the end is actually not too shabby with her or the other three young women who
00:39:26
Speaker
Look, and you mentioned the Batman reference, like there's one woman who is literally wearing like the enlarged Batman logo that is like straight out of like Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns, or as the large round Batman symbol that that's where you really only see that one legally distinct, just legally distinct enough to get away with it. But she'd been she had been doing that the whole movie with different costumes. First time we saw her, she was dressed
00:39:55
Speaker
as a minion. No, first time she's dressed as a ballerina all in white. No, I didn't notice that because it wasn't an IP, so I didn't. But, you know, she is dressed as a minion later. She dresses a clown in a couple of instances. Like she's the Joker with the Batman logo. She's like the cosplay villain, basically. Yeah. She is all of us. And I kind of enjoy that. It's.
00:40:19
Speaker
not great, but I think the fight scenes in and of themselves in that end are fun and there's enough there and it's better than some of the it's like not Scott Atkins. Like I'm not gonna say it's that although Scott Atkins is Valentine instant half star rating added to this movie. But it's like pretty good.
00:40:40
Speaker
I appreciate that they don't shoehorn a romance in between Bono and Valentine. I think that would have been kind of icky. I'm like, we're going to avoid that by like just killing him off midway through the movie. Kind of surprised they went that route. Like, I actually genuinely surprised, like, did not see that coming. Do you think they buried him under a Joshua tree?
00:41:10
Speaker
I do, actually. No, he was definitely under the streets that have no name. I think that definitely was. I had to use that one already, didn't you? Was it on a Sunday? It was definitely a Sunday, bloody Sunday. I thought that was the the the day of his accident, the accident that killed his wife and daughter and made him lose his leg. So. Right.
00:41:34
Speaker
That was a pretty cool. Well, we're dropping Bono references and then you got like all serious there for a second talking about kids dying and shit. And I was like, wait a minute. Oh, yeah, this movie. This movie. Yeah, they had like a moment where like Valentine and Bono got together and he said our two hearts beat is one. I would have been very that's an old to reference. He would have been like, let's share our love to everyone who has iTunes. Instead, every time she like gets in a fight, he's like, whoa, octum, baby.
00:42:05
Speaker
Oh my God. This is great. I don't know many YouTube references. The fact that I got that one in there, I'm very proud of. Very good.
00:42:16
Speaker
I mean, I figured that her dad was going to be her Uncle Ben figure, but he doesn't really motivate her the way that he motivates her brother. And I do want to talk about her brother as the primary antagonist here soon. But she needed something that would make her fun because she is pretty craven. Like in the comics, from what I understand,
00:42:40
Speaker
That character is very much motivated by, she wants to be an actress and she just has the martial arts training. I don't know that this movie really delves into that at all. Not even a passing reference to, well, you know, I always wanted to be an actress and so that's why I'm working at this cafe.
00:42:57
Speaker
She says like I want she does mention that a couple of times, like she does say that to her brother and he even says like, hey, have you gotten like the acting gigs yet? And she's like, no, nothing's really come up yet. Like she has dropped out of school.
Superhero Genre Expectations
00:43:11
Speaker
So there's a passing reference. And she mentions a couple like at one point, like Bono asks her. And I think it's a beautiful day when he asks for this. Like it's a really nice day. Like is he asked for this? Like if you
00:43:24
Speaker
Where did you learn these moves? She talks about like the form of martial arts it is and how she learned it from her dad and how her and her brother have both learned this. So that's a very popular in Southeast Asia. And that's like a very important little nugget that she drops in like, oh, it's my brother and I have both learned this form of martial arts.
00:43:45
Speaker
because you're like, oh, the brother's the bad guy. As soon as they say that, because you're like, of course he is. I mean, you kind of see that coming from a mile away. Is that when you knew that the brother was the bad guy? Kind of had that idea only because, like, he's the only other male in this movie and you kind of know that the villain's going to be unveiled at some point. And I've seen how movies work. So you've seen a movie before. Movies as formulaic as this one tends to be at times. Yeah.
00:44:13
Speaker
fine like you know what like that's totally okay I have zero problem with that I will do it cuz it works yeah I have zero issue with like that's not a problem for me you know so
00:44:26
Speaker
All that kind of like there are like passing references to it here. And you're right. I think because like a lot of the voice acting is so flat that it gets pretty easy to gloss over. I did have a question. Were there moments where it was not dubbed? It did feel like at times, especially when it's Bono and Valentine, that they're not dubbing it, that they're actually speaking in English and then everything else appears dubbed.
00:44:52
Speaker
So I think since they're, oh, Steven, you have the definitive answer. I was just going to speculate based on other things. Speculate wildly and then I'll come in as someone who grew up on a healthy, healthy dose of mostly Italian horror and Western films. When you have someone who speaks English during filming, they do speak their lines in English. But if one person's dubbed,
00:45:21
Speaker
everybody's dubbed and that's why it seemed like sometimes it matched up and sometimes it didn't with them but you could always tell that they were speaking English because like in all the Giallo films and all the spaghetti westerns people like Clint Eastwood and any other English actor that they would get in there they would perform their parts in English even though the people speaking that a language would be speaking that in a language which I'm always and that always
00:45:46
Speaker
It seems so difficult to me because if you don't know that language, how do you know when your line is? Like, is there somebody off screen going, okay, go. There has to be, right? Well, I mean, you could always do the plan nine thing that Tor Johnson would always just wait for the person to stop speaking, take a beat and then say his line. And then the other people who didn't understand him, what he was saying would just wait till he was done talking, take a beat and then say their lines back.
00:46:10
Speaker
Like very much like that. I so Matthew Settle is the the name of the actor that plays Bono and he is he is an American actor. He's from where is he from? I think he's from like South Carolina or something like he's he's an actual.
00:46:28
Speaker
American he's been in like band of brothers. I think is one of his most popular. I still know what you did last summer You 571 like he's got some credits This is the last movie he did He's not done anything since
00:46:44
Speaker
Is he okay? I don't know. I honestly don't. You seem like he's alive, right? Yeah. Did he get Brandon lead on set? Like, was he really getting shot? I don't know. They did kind of come out of nowhere, so I wouldn't be surprised. They're like, RIP this actor, actually.
00:47:00
Speaker
He is still alive. One thing I've noticed about this company is that they really like to get American actors that no one's really heard of or haven't really done anything and try to like get them in their movies. But no, this is this is.
00:47:24
Speaker
I mean, maybe it's the most dangerous game, man. This is his last credit on his IMDB page. Maybe he's just decided to retire. But though there's nothing about him, his personal life on here after 2011, which is when he divorced his wife, actress and model in 2017. I know. Now I'm a naive. I said about his personal life. Yeah.
00:47:48
Speaker
Um, but I don't sing a Muppet song. What did you say? No, no, I'm a naive. The is like a phenomena. His actress, his actress model wife, best known for a role in You Don't Mess With The Zohan. Oh, somebody likes that movie. Who likes that? Somebody's trying to get me to watch that. It was you, Steve. That's me. Yeah. OK, I'm going to watch it. I think I think it's I think it's a fun movie. One of Sam. There are like a director's cut of that that is like superior to the.
00:48:18
Speaker
Oh, there might be. I don't know which version I've seen, but there might be. I would I would watch the hell out of directors because I had fun with the regular version, honestly. But yeah, just watches whatever versions on Zoo TV. So pretty much. Yeah. But yeah, Matthew Settle, he's from North Carolina. He.
00:48:38
Speaker
So he's an American, but he actually, according to the credits of this movie, is voiced over by an actor named Christopher Waycamp. So he doesn't actually even do his own dubbing for this movie. Someone else dubs him in this movie.
00:48:52
Speaker
Which I find hilarious that you get an actual American actor in this movie and then just do not get him to read his own lines. Maybe he just wasn't available post production. I have no idea what the issue was, but there were sometimes it felt like he was.
00:49:09
Speaker
speaking Indonesian, like just from the way that the dub was syncing up with his actual lips and the way they were moving. I honestly couldn't tell, but I knew that he was being dubbed and I'd never seen him in anything, so I can't really tell you what he sounds like in real life, but apparently it's not like this. What? So, yeah, that's that's what I can tell you about the dub.
00:49:40
Speaker
Tucker, when did you know that Umbra was the villain? When it was revealed, and as soon as it was revealed, I thought, oh, my least favorite character in this movie is now a mother of the disappeared.
00:49:57
Speaker
Are these flying over your head now? Am I getting too deep on the YouTube? I said Zoo TV and no one reacted. I wanna feel over my head. I'll dial it back. You're making those cuts a little too deep. Shallow those up a bit, buddy. I'll dial it back, sorry.
00:50:13
Speaker
I'm not too far. No, I didn't. I like I said, it was very hard. I did. I did my best and I I honestly tried my hardest to pay attention in this movie, but it was very difficult. And I I don't want to say I missed a lot of stuff, but my brain just glossed over a lot of things. So when they revealed that, I was like, I probably if I probably should have known that. But no, it was news to me. So
00:50:40
Speaker
The the the the comic convention of naming characters very obvious things really bit this movie in the ass when it came to the reveal. And it's a Silver Age thing where you name like a villain like Rainbow Raider or something like Roy G. Bivolo, or a guy named the Riddler Edward Nigma. Like you just named him something very obvious and some like a pun on their name, basically.
00:51:04
Speaker
And so when in the first thing you've got a villain named shadow who's, you know, killing these rich people. And then in the very next scene you introduce her to her brother and her brother's first name is umbrella. I immediately go that guy's a bad guy. Because umbrella is the word for shadow. Oh, I don't know Latin. It's a dead language.
00:51:25
Speaker
I, well, okay, here's why I know that Umbra means shadow. It's important though, for, you know, understanding where words come from. So yeah, Latin is rad. Sorry, go ahead. I mean, I was, I minored in Greek in college. So Latin, not even a language I know extensively. I just know bits and pieces. But the reason I know that Umbra is Latin for shadow is because there's a character
Nostalgia and Storytelling in Comics
00:51:44
Speaker
in the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, or not the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, sorry, Legion of Superheroes in DC Comics called Umbra.
00:51:52
Speaker
And her entire thing is that she can manipulate shadows. That's her whole power set. So that's why I knew that. But I was just immediately that guy's a bad guy. And I was right. So yeah.
00:52:06
Speaker
But yeah, it's it comes from a mile away. And I think if you understand comics conventions in any result, like this movie plays into its tropes in a way that both feels respectful and obvious. Like this is a balance is that line, I think very well.
00:52:23
Speaker
this is a very comic book comic book movie in a way that comic books aren't anymore like comic books now aren't the comic books we grew up with right right uh as a matter of fact like it's a problem that like comic books now almost feel like they're being created to
00:52:45
Speaker
churn out material for future movies. There aren't really any one off like one or two issue stories anymore. Everything is like a six to 12 issue arc. If it's not something that's interconnected with a half dozen other titles. Correct.
00:53:05
Speaker
in order to funnel stuff to get created for a larger, if not just one character series of movies to get funneled towards a larger, broader cinematic universe. And that's a real issue with comic books. Like when you think about we need to be able to create like new fans, it's very hard to create new fans, especially younger readers when the
00:53:33
Speaker
Point of entry number one is very expensive. Like in a comic book now is I don't even think it's even five bucks. I think it's like six, seven bucks for a new issue. Like it's crazy expensive. I would not be surprised. I've not bought comics in years for that reason.
00:53:49
Speaker
I was like 75 last time I bought a college. It's it's a lot. And I'm some of the in 1989, when Tim Burton's Batman was coming out, I remember buying like Batman 400 for maybe like a buck for the next dollar. Yeah. Yeah.
00:54:07
Speaker
for the next 10 years, like being an avid Batman reader, and then like buying like the ultimate Spider-Man run for the first like 100 or so issues, and then buying like a lot of the Ultimate Universe stuff for those issues, a lot of issues, and like Dan Jurgens on Superman. Side note, can I ask you, just because I never get a chance to ask people this, what did you think of Ultimate Iron Man, the solo series? Did you read that?
00:54:36
Speaker
Oh, Ultimate Iron Man. That's the Warren Ellis one, right? Yeah. Or he's blue. He's a blue kid and he's like. Not much because I don't remember reading it. I remember reading the ultimate trades. I have the two trades. Well, and they they do kind of hint towards his origins and stuff in.
00:54:56
Speaker
the Ultimates, but the dedicated series is really interesting. It's kind of an outlier in the Ultimates universe, too. It kind of stands on its own. I don't think I read Ultimate Iron Man. I recommend it. I read Ultimate Cap. I definitely read all of the Peter Parker Ultimate Spider-Man and then did not read it after they killed him off because I'm like, why would you kill off Ultimate Peter Parker? The art was so cool after with Mark Bagley.
00:55:24
Speaker
Bagley's so good. Bagley's the worst. I grew up with Bagley and he can suck a fuck. He's the worst comic artist ever. Everything he does is just like an affront to my eyes. Tucker coming in is fucking hot. Sorry. Mark Bagley, I'm sure, is a wonderful human being. But like I said, I grew up on that motherfucker and then I had to suffer through all his shit on Ultimate Spider-Man. And when they changed artists finally, I was like, oh, thank God. How do you really feel?
00:55:49
Speaker
I cannot stand the art of Mark Begley. Can you go over here? Tucker, I'm gonna need you to just pull up, maybe take another shot or something, but you are coming in so fucking hot right now. Hey, you hit a sore subject because everybody loves Mark Begley and I don't get it. It's some of the most offensive shit I've ever seen in my life. See, I feel that way about Chris Bakalow, but I'm not even coming in that hot. I just like, eh, I don't care for it.
00:56:12
Speaker
So tying this back into Valentine, which is sorry, really fine. Like this to me is like a throwback to like 80s and 90s comics and really 70s comics in a way like the in look not to the like when I say Denis O'Neill, I don't mean to the quality of like Denis O'Neill's writing or like George like George Perez is an artist. So I apologize. I'm getting the
00:56:40
Speaker
But like that kind of writing where it's like we can do like one or two issues in and get in and get out. Telling telling stories for limited windows, knowing that people might come on and off the book depending on how they feel about the character.
00:56:54
Speaker
And these are very, very simple stories. That is what this is a throwback to. And geared towards a younger audience right here. And that can lead to some problems. For example, the plot logic of you're supposed to be filming this for a movie, yet there are no other actors. There seems to be no script. There's no other overhead.
Critique of Film Execution
00:57:20
Speaker
All you have is a 1995-style camcorder.
00:57:24
Speaker
that runs off the VHS like all of your best footage is security camera footage from other stores. And your lead cameraman is a fashion designer who really has no business holding a camera as evidenced by the first scene after he films anything. Or designing fashion either. Who is every horrific queer stereotype. Oh my God. It is offensive. It is. Offensive. I like his hair.
00:57:55
Speaker
His hair kind of reminds me of her was dope of meet your boy Michak Taylor in Mannequin a little bit. Looks a little bit like Shinsky Nakamura from the WWE a little. There you go. You go. No one else knows who I'm talking about. I love the Rasslin. People love Rasslin.
00:58:14
Speaker
So it's a lot like that. And the villains are very simple. The henchmen are very simple. The motives are very simple. Like it's very pure in that regard. It's a lot of green screen. The effects, let's face it, like the special effects are poor.
00:58:32
Speaker
The CGI is poor. Agreed. To the point where you're almost like, let's not even do them. Like, really, you'd be better off if you didn't even attempt those things. The movie would be better. Just skip the scene and have somebody tell us about it later. Like, that would be better, honestly. Or you could have, like, the chase scene. You could have, like, the chase scene and not have, like, your henchwomen dropping the...
00:59:00
Speaker
these awful grenades out the window that have these like terrible CGI explosions. They're supposed to be like the Green Goblin pumpkin bombs and they've all got little smiley faces on them. Just don't. I swear they use the same shot of cosplay girl throwing the bomb out like five times. Yeah, they use that same shot over and over and over and I love it. I remember that part because it was when I had to turn it down because I was trying to sleep. I was like, oh,
00:59:27
Speaker
Right. Because what? Why do you get so loud all of a sudden? Well, what's unfortunate about that is like the actual fight between the actual stunt work that's being done and the fight like in the van is like not terrible for a low budget action movie like jumping in between both fans and going back and forth. Like that's not the worst thing in the whole world. Like it's too, too terrible.
00:59:54
Speaker
Right. I agree with you. The choreography and the stunts are fantastic. It's just the way that it's shot and edited that just takes the piss out of it. Yeah. Like you can tell, people worked hard on the physical aspects of this movie, but the way it's presented just makes it worthless. Yeah, they're worthless is a little bit harsh, but let me get what you're saying. In from my perspective, straight up worthless.
01:00:15
Speaker
There are some scenes where the editing kind of makes it feel like all the characters are fighting underwater, which is kind of a bummer. The two fight scenes I really, really loved. The cage match sequence, where she's fighting the guys in the cage.
01:00:31
Speaker
And a shirtless henchman just shows up out of nowhere. Like she's fighting the guy with all the face paint. And then all of a sudden there's a second guy without a shirt. And I'm like, how did this guy get here? I don't know. It doesn't matter. We're going to fight. And then the scene with the the with the her versus the three henchmen who have pretty much dispatched everybody, the entire movie, like the scene at the the press that the prince's speech where they take on the
01:01:00
Speaker
the all the bodyguards, she takes out like two at a time and then walks over to a third one who's holding a gun and then disarms that guy. And I'm like, why is this guy not trying to take a shot? Like he's just standing there with a gun waiting to be disarmed. Like, come on, guy, just like do something, please. Right. But no, I mean, there are some really, really good actions. And I mean, the Indonesian film industry, like,
01:01:26
Speaker
The actors from The Raid and The Raid 2, I believe, are Indonesian. That's exactly the movie I was thinking of. I liked that movie. That movie was good as hell. Very inspired by that kind of action. I think that's the standard for a lot of these Indonesian films, which the Indonesian film industry is picking up momentum.
01:01:51
Speaker
Um, within their own country and starting to export a lot of their, a lot of their stuff. Um, this movie though, based on the release schedule of it, the fact that it literally stumbled out of the gate. And then it took them almost a year and a half to even get the movie re-released. And then when it started to drop it, they just like fuck it and put it out on, on Blu-ray. Like that's kind of the legacy of this movie is this. And the marketing apparently was very bad. Like from what I've read on, um.
01:02:20
Speaker
on social media, what I've been able to translate off of Skyler pictures is Instagram is that the marketing for this movie wasn't great. So like
01:02:27
Speaker
the whole movie felt like it kind of it was rushed into production and then just tripped out of the gate. Like we say at the beginning of every episode fell flat on their face after the first film. This feels like a textbook definition of a movie that fell flat on its face right out of the gate. And there's a kernel of a good idea, this idea of like, what if we accidentally created a superhero by wanting to drum up publicity for a movie
01:02:58
Speaker
And we inadvertently create a superhero and it's just not written in that way. And again, I don't know if it's translation because it just feels like you're just going to keep go out, keep going out there in fighting crime. And that's what she just does. She becomes a crime fighter.
01:03:16
Speaker
And it's never really discussed how there's a transition. It just kind of is. But that's a really fascinating idea. And you get these shots of persons watching her do this in this idea. And we see these in American films as well. Everybody gathered around their monitor or their phones or their tablet and you're like,
01:03:39
Speaker
look at this like hot new thing taking off like everybody like everybody is like really into this everybody's gathered around it's like or you go all the way back to like Christian Slater and pump up the volume everybody is turning into like is it like DJ Hornedog I can't remember Harry Hornedog I can I haven't seen that movie in so long I just hold on I'll look it up
01:04:02
Speaker
But like everybody is like tuning into that like everybody's like plugged in like this is what we're into right now. There's like a kernel of like a really good idea for this.
01:04:15
Speaker
But it's just like you said, rushed. It's not quite fleshed out enough. We needed another pass at this script. We needed like one more go at it in order for it to really be ironed out. But it's unfortunate that just kind of not what they're going for. We have like a costume. We have like a
01:04:40
Speaker
young woman that can fill that costume that can fight. We have a couple of people that can like fight against her. We have like some backstory with all these comics. Happy Harry Hard-On. Thank you, Steven. No problem.
01:04:57
Speaker
So that's all we really need. Who cares about the rest? Like there's just not enough thought that goes into it. And now love them or hate them. And I'm not a huge comic book movie person. I'm not someone that's going to go rush out to the theaters for one anymore. You know, honestly, unless it's a Batman movie.
01:05:16
Speaker
And I'll go see like when James Gunn's new Superman movie comes out, I will go right away and cross my fingers and like, please give me some of that Christopher Reeve nostalgia. Like, let me just please, please give me a little bit of that rush. I'll cross my fingers for that. Other than that, like I'm not rushing out for a superhero movie anymore. If you are like, God love you, but that's your thing.
01:05:43
Speaker
Yeah, that's cool. It's just not for me. And I'm on record as being right where you are, just kind of disillusioned with the whole superhero thing these days. Yeah, that's fine. That's not what this movie is. But now, like there are persons out there that put a lot of time and energy and effort, almost too much so. Like it is kind of like come to like hurt some of these movies like, hey, in order to watch this movie,
01:06:13
Speaker
You need to do a lot of homework. You need to watch these three series, watch these two movies and read these five articles in order to make this movie make
Cultural Commentary and Conclusion
01:06:26
Speaker
sense. And I don't want to invest that much of my time and energy before I go to a movie. Life is short. Yeah. Who's got time? I don't. Not me.
01:06:42
Speaker
No, I'm 100% with you. And I think that's part of why it is a bad movie. It is not good. I will not say this is a well-made film, but the parts of it I enjoyed are the parts that kind of were the ones that were riffing on the Batman tropes from the Burton and Schumacher films, from the Adam West series. I feel like it riffs on every era of Batman at least once.
01:07:07
Speaker
Over the course of the film and I really enjoyed that and I enjoyed again just like the throwback like you said make the throwback nature of the thing like it feels. Like something from the silver or the Bronze Age of comics put on a screen in a way that is.
01:07:27
Speaker
interesting, like there's a there's a sense of the the earnestness, as opposed to like the detached irony of the 90s. That's kind of permeated so much of culture. I've been talking to my partner lately, just I'm kind of done with detached irony, like I just want to
01:07:44
Speaker
I want to be able to like something. Like, when did we stop liking things because we liked them? Why did we have to start enjoying things because we stopped? It's funny. Maybe you didn't. But I think a lot of people have. Oh, yeah. No, fuck that. That's why I can't stand letterbox because it's not reviews. It's just who can say the funniest thing about this movie.
01:08:05
Speaker
I mean, and that's annoying as shit because maybe there should be a website for making funny comments about movies, but this is a website for reviewing films. There used to be. It was called Twitter and then a billionaire bought it and tanked it. So, yeah, let her put her necessarily yourself.
01:08:21
Speaker
Letterbox isn't necessarily a review site, though. I mean, Letterbox can be a review site. It can also just be a way to kind of keep track. Like, I use it to kind of like keep track of what I'm watching and maybe put some thoughts down, but it's not necessarily
01:08:38
Speaker
Reviews for me although there are some people I follow and I'll look at like what are their thoughts on this and for some people like it depends on the Personality of that person like it doesn't to me. It's like a very broad thing and if like if there are people that are more pithy and make kind of Comments that I don't like I do the nice thing is I don't have to follow them and
01:09:04
Speaker
Right. You know, well, see, my problem is that the only people I do follow is Stephen and Brett. So basically, if I go to letterbox, I'm either looking at one of their reviews or I'm looking up a movie to see what people said about it. Yeah. And most likely it's the latter. OK. So that's why I run into a lot of problems because I'll be like, wow, this has this average rating. That's not what I would have thought. Let me look at the reviews and they're all like, oh, meme.
01:09:33
Speaker
Yeah, I guess I don't know I don't know who you follow or you said you don't follow people just follow my Follow Mike. I would yeah, I guess I would like look at
01:09:48
Speaker
So Steven's in a crime zone. I mean, I do live in Chicago. No, no, I live on a I live off of a couple of very busy streets and it apparently all the emergencies have been happening today because on any given day there's a lot of this, but there's been like at least at least three fire trucks on my street today. So. So I think I do I do agree with you that there is
01:10:19
Speaker
a part of the culture that everything is served up with a sense of who can be the loudest, who can be the most obnoxious, who can make their voice heard. And sometimes it's like, and being funny is hard.
01:10:37
Speaker
I try to be funny. And sometimes I'm successful and sometimes it falls flat on its face. But like, in general, like I have tried stand up comedy. And I was okay. But I would do stand up comedy with people that were really, really, really good.
01:10:56
Speaker
And I looked at what it took for those people to be really good and knew that I didn't have it in me to put that kind of work into the craft. And I'm like, I'm not going to because I have a lot of respect for standup comedy. Like, I love standup comedy as an art form. I'm like, I'm not going to sell you this art form because I know that I cannot put this kind of effort into it that they do. I'm going to step away from it. That makes sense. Yeah, 100 percent.
01:11:25
Speaker
And some people like get to be known by just being the loudest and most outraged people. Like I am going to be performatively outraged. And they turn everything about whatever the cause du jour is. And it's like, how can you talk about this when this thing is going on right now? It's like, man, I'm just talking about how much I like Sour Patch Kids.
01:11:51
Speaker
Didn't expect to be talking about Gaza right now. It's like I was just upset that my favorite flavor is Sour Patch Kids.
01:11:58
Speaker
It's like, yeah, Gaza is terrible, but I just wanted a snack. Yeah, I was just trying to. Of course, I'm upset about that. I'm just trying to shout into the ether about a thing that I'm thinking about in this moment. You don't need to respond to everything that everyone says. It's OK. And I think performative outrage is just as bad as detached irony in a lot of ways, like it's just that kind of because it does. It all kind of feels a little performative. You know, it all kind of feels like we're putting on a show.
01:12:23
Speaker
And I feel like the people sometimes shouting the loudest of the people that care the least. And we can be upset about many things at once. We don't have to necessarily discuss them all the time. Right. Every single waking moment of the day because we will. It's not healthy.
01:12:40
Speaker
Sometimes we need a break. Yeah. We need to take care of ourselves. I agree with you, but I think there is an opposite to that as well. I think a lot of people nowadays, especially men of our age, are a little too deep into escaping the real world and not dealing with the issues that are going on. You know what I mean? I do.
01:13:07
Speaker
And I think you kind of have to, I think in some ways you kind of have to find that good middle ground. Yeah, all things need to balance. You're not incorrect. I would not argue that you're incorrect. But I don't know that if I've ever convinced somebody to find my way of thinking by shouting at them and telling them they're terrible.
01:13:32
Speaker
Right. You know what I mean? I don't think I've ever been convinced like, hey, you've just told me I'm a complete piece of shit and I'm terrible. Now I see where you're coming from and I don't make sense now. No, no argument ever made on social media has convinced anyone of anything. Yeah, that's kind of what I go with. But yeah, so. So tell me more, you know. And I get mad at people. I mean, I get upset. I get your humans.
01:14:02
Speaker
So Valentine. Right. Is that what we're here to talk about? Why? Oh, no, I again, like I I'm not going to go.
01:14:13
Speaker
and say that this is like a masterpiece of cinematic achievement. It is on its, and maybe it's that I went in with such low expectations for this, but I did find myself enjoying it. I was not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater on this one. I was able to find things that I enjoyed and do I have my problems with it? Yes, are they many? Yes. But at the end of the day,
01:14:41
Speaker
I can still have a good time with something, even if I know it's bad. Like, I will recognize I'm the kind of person I can recognize and something is bad, but also recognize that I enjoy it. And that's how I feel about this movie. Is it a good movie? No, it honestly, it made me want to dig into more Indonesian superhero films like there are other Indonesian superhero films out there, and I kind of want to get into those like there are two of them streaming on
01:15:07
Speaker
To be right now that I kind of want to get into that are a part of the same cinematic universe and I'm like I want to check those out
01:15:14
Speaker
So like, I'm kind of into like, maybe this one wasn't great. But maybe there are others out there doing it better. And I kind of want to see those like, that's, that's so odd. Like I said before, it's so, so strange how, how completely different we can perceive something Steven, because this film, when I was finished with it, the only thing I was interested in was ripping my heart out of my rib cage with my bare hands and then throwing it on the floor and stomping on it until I die. We're down.
01:15:45
Speaker
Yes. But I and again, for me, I was just like, I there's there's enough good in this thing that I would love to see someone try and do it a little better. So, you know, again, it's it's not winning any. Tucker almost died. I forgot to mute my mic when I took a shot, which is a mistake.
01:16:12
Speaker
Um, but I, you know, I, I had, I had a good enough time with it that I will, I will be seeking out other Indonesian films. Uh, and I'm probably doing some other Indonesian action films as well. Like I, I kinda, I kinda dig what this was, was trying to do again. Was it successful? No, not particularly, but successful enough that I'm, I'm like, I told you over text Tucker baffled and intrigued in equal measure is kind of where I found myself at the end of this movie.
01:16:40
Speaker
And let me let me reassure the the listeners. I'm sure most of them know this, but as much as I disagree with Steven and think that this movie was a masterpiece of shit. I'm still like, I am really, really glad that you liked it, Steven. I'm glad that it sparked this interest for you to like explore some shit, because that's right. I love going down rabbit holes like that. I fucking love that for you, dude. Just wanted to let you know. Thanks, solid. Solid as a rock.
01:17:10
Speaker
But, yeah, no, like I and if Skylar Pictures has announced a volt movie based on their flagship character, I at this they announced it in 2019 and nothing has happened with it yet. The co-creator of the character, Marcelino Lefrant, who plays Volt in this movie, is also set to play him in
01:17:37
Speaker
The Volt movie, whenever that comes out, but there has up to this point been absolutely zero mention of a Valentine's sequel. And at this point, it feels very unlikely that there ever will be again. It's been this came out in 2017 or in 2017 initially, and then two years later came out in America. So it's been since 2019. It feels very unlikely that we're ever going to get that sequel. Yeah.
01:18:05
Speaker
particularly given this company's long production history. If we do get it, this podcast will be dead in the water, I'm sure by then, because they announced they announced the Volt movie as early as 2013. They've been trying to make that so like it's been and then that it's been 10 years and they still haven't started filming on that as far as I know.
TV Series and Film Discussions
01:18:28
Speaker
So it's years.
01:18:30
Speaker
It's been a while. There's also apparently there's been a trailer on YouTube for two years for a TV series starring Donny Alamsaya from The Raid as another character called Sakti that is still listed on Strow TV as upcoming. So
01:18:48
Speaker
No release date in sight. God only knows when that thing is going to be out if it will be out at all. Like this. Scholar Pictures does not seem particularly interested in releasing content, just announcing content. So. Hey, did either of you see the sequel to the raid? Is it any good? I haven't seen the second one. I want to. I heard it ups. I heard it. I have not watched it, but I've heard it's incredible. You should ask friend of the show, Samuel Dumas. I know, Sammy, you know, I've seen it and loves it. Yeah.
01:19:18
Speaker
He'll give you an honest, he'll give you an honest answer. He loves all that stuff. East Asian horror is or East Asian action is kind of his thing. So attracts. Yeah. Any final thoughts on Valentine before we move into the final section of our program? It stinks. Thank you, Jay Sherman. Mike, any final thoughts?
01:19:42
Speaker
I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it more than I anticipated. Didn't have super high expectations going in for it. Said it's not the most particularly well made movie. There's a lot of flaws in it. I think the lead has a fair amount of fun charisma to her.
01:20:06
Speaker
And I think she has some real action chops. And I think that the movie can skate by based on that. Yeah, I'm definitely inclined to agree with you on that point. I had a fun time and I think
01:20:24
Speaker
Estelle Linden is a big part of the reason why I enjoy it to the extent that I did. I thought she was doing great work. She does a lot of work with Skylar Pictures, so there's a lot more of her work out there. I don't know how much of it is in English, though, but I would not mind watching more of her work. I thought she did a great job.
01:20:42
Speaker
This movie, so there are like several release dates to contend with on this, was released in Indonesia, like we said initially, on November 23rd, 2017, and then re-released in Indonesia in April of 2019, April 19th of 2019. And then in May, on May 14th of 2019, was released on Blu-ray and DVD by Shop Factory.
01:21:10
Speaker
You can actually still buy that Blu-ray and DVD if you wish on Shout Factory's website. They still have it available, the U.S. version of that film. I'm going to go with the second theatrical release, which is April 19th, 2019. And this is a top five that we have done before because it is the week. Number one opening this week is The Curse of La Llorona.
01:21:35
Speaker
which is a movie that we definitely covered on this podcast. I don't know if anyone remembers that movie or that we covered it, but it existed and we covered it. So yeah, Curse of La Llorona opened at number one. In number two, another superhero movie, Shazam. What did we think about Shazam? I like Shazam.
01:21:54
Speaker
Like the first one. The first one was fine enough. I didn't hate it. The second one, honestly. I have never seen a guy kick himself in the dick so much with negative PR. Yeah. Yeah. That's definitely the impression that I got after that one. In third place, a movie called Breakthrough that I have never heard of before.
01:22:20
Speaker
Um, in fourth place, a little movie called Captain Marvel. Am I, am I saying that right? Um, after seven weeks, that's earned over 400 million at the box office. I thought that one was pretty fun too. I still haven't seen the sequel. I'm gonna wait till that one drops on Disney plus. Has it dropped on Disney plus already? Have I just not watched it? On the seventh. Okay. So soon. Yeah. Okay.
01:22:45
Speaker
And then in fifth place, Little, which I believe if I'm not mistaken is a Tyler Perry film. What's it called? Little.
01:22:56
Speaker
It is not a Tyler Perry film. It is Tina Gordon. Is it the prequel to big? Possibly. It is not. It's got Regina. It's got Regina Hall and Issa Rae. And I like all of those people. I like those actresses very much. Tracy Ellis Ross in it also. I saw American fiction a couple of days ago and Issa Rae and Tracy Ellis Ross are doing.
01:23:23
Speaker
Great work in that movie. I really enjoyed that film. Rounding out the top 10, you've got the Tim Burton Dumbo, the remake of Pet Sematary, Jordan Peele's Us, the Leica film Missing Link, and a future episode of this podcast, Hellboy. Oh, the one with Stranger Things Guy. Yeah, David Harbour. That's his name.
01:23:50
Speaker
Yeah, this film has absolutely no domestic box office to speak of. I absolutely could not find anything on the Indonesian box office either. And I looked, I can't find anything about the budget. Like the finances for this movie are a mystery. If someone had told me that this was like a tax shelter, I would believe it. But I will, I can say that it made $193,000 in domestic home video sales.
01:24:18
Speaker
and another $226,000 in domestic Blu-ray sales for a total estimated domestic video sales of $419,500.00. If I had to speculate, to me, this looks like a $7 million movie. OK, I buy that, actually. What am I hitting talents? This movie has no Tomatometer score.
01:24:47
Speaker
It has no metascore, so nothing on Rotten Tomatoes or Metacritic. It does, however, have a letterbox score, and the letterbox score for this movie is 2.8. Mike, as our guest, how do you rate 2017's Valentine, the Dark Avenger?
01:25:11
Speaker
I would sandwich it in between Last Temptation of Christ and Goodfellas. Wait, so you're saying you like Goodfellas better than Last Temptation? Oh, absolutely. That's surprising. Okay. All right. Really?
01:25:30
Speaker
I like Last Temptation better, but then I'm I'm when you're one of those crazy. I don't I like Scorsese when he's more out of his comfort zone, like stuff like Bringing Out the Dead, Cape Fear, Last Temptation. All of his other movies are great, but you can tell he's super, super comfy. Cape Fear is very comfortable. No, Cape Fear is very comfortable. Cape Fear, he's jumping right outside of every box he's ever been in his entire career, dude.
01:25:56
Speaker
No, no. Yeah, I'm not kidding. Cape Fear. He's super cool. Are you kidding me? It's a big thing. Oh, you're kidding me, dude. He's effortless. He's effortlessly making like a Hitchcock movie in Cape Fear. He's he's out de palmaing de palma with Cape Fear, for sure. I mean, that's that's the thing. The thing about Cape Fear is like Cape Fear would be like someone else's like benchmark movie. It would be like anybody else's like career high. And he makes it. He just makes it like that Shutter Island.
01:26:26
Speaker
He makes it look so effortless, it's almost embarrassing. For Uncle Marty, that's a Tuesday. Yeah. Well, I think maybe I misspoke. I think there are some films in his filmography that kind of stand out as very, very different than the rest of it. Yeah, that's what he normally does. Things like Last Temptation, Cape Fear, like I said, it's very, even the way it's shot, the pacing of it, like it's so different than the rest of it. He turned down Schindler's List to do Cape Fear.
01:26:53
Speaker
Yes, if I recall, it's like, you know, I'll do which probably the right call because I don't think he out. Who am I? I think that like he would have nailed it, but would it have meant as much as it did? Exactly as it did coming from Spielberg.
01:27:11
Speaker
Oh, not. I mean, and that's something they weren't. That's a discussion they were having in the 90s, but that's not really his story to tell. Yeah. So I think that might have those two guys that probably was part of the discussion, honestly. And I feel like those two guys swap films all the time. Like those guys are two people that are like very good friends and constantly talking and are like, I don't want to do this. I'm working on this. And it was like, I'd really like to do this, but I'm developing this. And like, you want to you want to swap Spielberg also feels like one of those guys who's got like 10 movies in the hopper at any given moment.
01:27:40
Speaker
He had 10 movies in the Hooper and he would kick Hooper off a poltergeist set. Poltergeist. And now you're going to have the poltergeist guy come on your show and get very mad at you. Every time you suggest that Toby Hooper didn't direct poltergeist, there's a dude who runs like the poltergeist social media account gets very angry.
01:28:00
Speaker
And he comes up on a nowhere and I think you and I actually had this conversation on one of the Texas Chainsaw episode. I think it was Texas Chainsaw, too. You and I had this guy and you were like, no, that was Spielberg. And I was like, I disagree. And we're just because a lot of Spielberg watch the end of that. But watch the end of Poltergeist. And you tell me if that's not. I mean, dude, dude. Guy rips off his face. All our Raiders of the Lost Ark.
01:28:28
Speaker
There's so much Spielberg. Okay, Toby Hooper directed.
01:28:33
Speaker
Poltergeist with Steven Spielberg standing over his shoulder Giving him a lot of instruction and I will be able to see that But I think again, I think they had the kind of relationship where Hooper was open Hooper was open to his suggestion because he knew how successful Spielberg was absolutely And so he was willing to maybe to a fault implement a lot of suggestions So waiting someone like Joe Dante probably wouldn't move
01:28:59
Speaker
Well, to hear them tell it, it was more of a collaboration. It wasn't like. Right. Yeah. Anyway, two stars on Valentine. Two stars on Valentine and two stars. Yeah. And I think that's fair, given given your criticisms of the movie and what you enjoyed about it, I think that's absolutely fair. Tucker, what about? Which means which means Last Temptation of Christ is one and a half stars, apparently in hell. You're killing me. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I love Last Temptation of Christ.
01:29:26
Speaker
No. Last Cemptations of May. We did a Patreon episode on that one a while back, so. I don't think that was going to be a franchise. You can only kill Jesus once. No, that was a franchise of movies. No, that was that was for our Patreon only oops, all Christianity corner where I go off on Christian shit and Tucker and Brett asked me questions about it. It's fine. Tucker, what did you give Valentine? Need I even ask?
01:29:56
Speaker
Well, I do not believe in Valentine and the Dark Avenger, but pans down to hatchet, I do believe in this. No stars. Wow. Whereas I'm with you, Mike. I gave it two stars myself. Yeah. I think it's a two-star film.
01:30:18
Speaker
I yeah, I liked it. I had a good time with it. Is it good? No, but it it kind of makes me want to dig deeper. So I'm excited for that prospect for sure. Also what my wife says to me when I'm giving her the best 30 giving her the business. Was it good? No. Doesn't make me want to dig deeper. No. No.
01:30:44
Speaker
Oh god, Mike. Happy Valentine's Day. We look no I mean the first I think that one of the first things you ever said when you came on the show and I bring this up a lot because it stuck with me and I find it absolutely hilarious. I asked you if you had any plans for Valentine's Day. Do you remember your response, Mike? But stuff. You're basically like I don't know anal.
01:31:04
Speaker
And I just that that stands as like a top five Mike's noonie in memory for me. And we've we've we've we've been on a lot of podcasts together since then. You have really remains up there. So, Mike, God, I love you. I love having you on. You're such a joy. Always. I love your insights, man. Anytime I get to talk with you is a good time.
Overview of 'Pod and Pendulum' Podcast
01:31:26
Speaker
Tell us how to tell.
01:31:28
Speaker
tell the people man pot and pendulum what's going on what else have you got in the hopper like let us know man. So the part of the pendulum if you haven't listened we are a show that covers horror movie franchises and the goal with our show like when we cover franchise we do one movie
01:31:48
Speaker
start to finish and then just go along till we finish a franchise. So if there's 10 movies in the series, you'll get 10 episodes, sometimes more if it's like a one of the tentpole movies, you know, something very totemic. Yeah. Like Frankenstein. We did a couple on Frankenstein, a couple on Bride of Frankenstein.
01:32:11
Speaker
And the goal with it is like by the time we're done, a series is that you can put that series to bed and say, if I never listened to another episode on this movie, I've gotten everything I need out of it.
01:32:24
Speaker
And I think with the crew that we have right now, with Steven being part of that crew, with Rachel, with Ariel, with Devon, with Brian, with Jessica, with Nicole, I don't believe I'm missing anybody. I've met some of those people. There's eight of us now. Yeah, we've had several, several of them on as guests, actually. Yeah. Everybody brings a really unique voice to the show. Everybody has their strengths.
01:32:51
Speaker
I do the show gets an amazing crew of people to talk to with every week. And over the past five years, I am so proud of what this show has become. We've had like 225 or so episodes in the can. And I don't say this lightly. We're a little indie show that has kind of grown and grown and grown. We're not the biggest show in the world, but we've got a nice following.
01:33:16
Speaker
I would put our show against any of the big ones that are on networks and have like marketing and larger sites behind them that have people that can focus on those things for them. I will put what we do against any of those shows because I think we have the best damn horror podcast in the goddamn world when it comes to covering things from start to finish. And it's due to the crew we have.
01:33:44
Speaker
And I don't say that lightly, and I usually would not say something like that. I think when we cover something, we cover it really, really well. So the part on the pendulum is my little baby. So I would encourage folks, especially the Frankenstein series, go and listen to it, go and listen to our Saw series. We really, I feel like we've really, really nailed it.
01:34:04
Speaker
Um, so yeah, check that out wherever you get your podcasts. And then later this year, we've kind of had a soft announcement of it. Um, Rach, uh, sorry, Rebecca McCann, I almost said the wrong name.
01:34:18
Speaker
So please edit this. So later this year, Rebecca McCallum, who does Talking Hitchcock, and I would say is one of the foremost Alfred Hitchcock scholars out there. She's asked me to take part in this project called, it's funny you mentioned Toby Hooper, called Off the Hook, which is going to be a two year project where we dissect the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, 74 seconds at a time.
01:34:47
Speaker
So we're going to be watching 74 seconds of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre dissecting just that part of the movie each episode. And we are going to be, I think, why are we doing it that way? Because we're fucking crazy. And because the movie came out in 1974. It came out in 1974. So you've already. Everything's been done. So we're getting desperate, guys. And.
01:35:12
Speaker
She is one of the most intelligent women I know, like the point where her intelligence frightens me. Trying to keep up with her is a little bit intimidating and I don't get intimidated often. So it is a real challenge. We've recorded a few episodes. We'll be posting them later this year. So definitely stay tuned for that. But I'm really excited because it's a much
01:35:38
Speaker
different challenge to try to find something to talk about for like an hour at a time about like this short of a movie. I'm sorry, this short of a section of a movie, but it's also like really, really cool. So I'm pretty excited. I'm excited to hear that one. I having been on a couple of the Texas Chainsaw episodes upon the pendulum. I know your affection and affinity, particularly for that first movie. And I'm I'm really excited to hear you guys dig into that for sure.
01:36:09
Speaker
And I'm honestly Mike I pod the pendulum I've told you before is one of my is before I was even on it my favorite horror podcast because of the depth. I feel like every time you come on I have to like
01:36:23
Speaker
just sing your praises because you are you're such a mensch you're, if we have any following at all, it's because of you. Because of the exposure that I mean, I would say I, I would say probably 75% of our listener base probably comes over from pond pendulum.
01:36:39
Speaker
Um, but like you, uh, just, you know, you took a chance on a guy you'd never met before and said, yeah, come on our show. And then when I said, Hey, you want to come on mine? You're like, yeah, absolutely. Why not? Um, and you've consistently said yes. And, you know, to the point where you just like, let me on your show.
01:36:57
Speaker
Whenever I want to talk about whatever I want Like, you know, it's it's it's an and it's an honor to be a part of like that level of esteemed company Every time like I just you've you've put together quite a crew you're you're such an incredible guy and I if if people are not listening to your podcasts, they are
01:37:18
Speaker
crazy because again, I appreciate I agree with you because I think pot in the pendulum is my favorite horror podcast. And it's one that I love going back to consistently. So well, I really like listening to the show. I really like this is when it's in my rotation that I get to listen to. I really enjoy and I'll mention I really like the flash episode. Yeah. I don't get where Tucker is coming from on the original Black Christmas because that movie is a masterpiece. Me either. Like I was like getting angry at my
01:37:46
Speaker
like get at you and Brett like listening to the show. But that's a good show when you can listen to it in one. Well, and and if I can mention for anybody who's not listened to that episode, Brett and I also, after discussing it, we we swear to rewatch it because we are convinced that we just need to watch it again.
01:38:08
Speaker
because like the more, if you remember, the more we talk about it, we're like, how did we not like, this is an amazing movie. How did we not like this? We've got to watch this again. Margot Kidder in the 1970s. Margot Kidder is like the quintessential woman of the 70s. So you guys have built a following because like you consistently put on like a great show every week.
01:38:29
Speaker
And you've like built that over time. And I love that. But like I get to work with really good people every week and I really enjoy it. And it's fun. That's why I do a show. I get to work with a couple of assholes. Yeah, you really do.
01:38:43
Speaker
Must be hard for you. It's difficult, but somehow I pulled through. I mean, the thing he's not telling you is that we put up with him, too. So. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, they put up with me editing and distributing. So when you're doing music, so much to put up with. You just go yell at the two year old after and be like, what's wrong with you? No, dude, we're best friends. We talking about that's why that's why he write rap songs about juice.
01:39:10
Speaker
We're working on it, man. I'm getting in there. I was going to say Tucker's going to lay down those tracks when he does. When he's ready for it, Tucker will put those down for sure. Yeah. I will also tell listeners that if you like hearing the sound of my voice, definitely check out some of those Frankenstein episodes. I'm on two as of the, I think the Frankenstein meets the Wolfman episode.
01:39:31
Speaker
will have just come out earlier this week as of the release of this episode. And then I was also on the bride of Frankenstein episode and at present I am planning to be on the Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein episode as well to talk about that fun, fun movie that I love. So definitely check out that series. And of course, the research that Brian and Mike are bringing to the table week after week on that is impeccable. I've been watching along with them and just discovering new things about that franchise that I never knew. So
01:39:59
Speaker
Definitely, definitely worth your time to check out. I encourage all of our listeners to do it. Did you know the Frankenstein's monster isn't actually called Frankenstein? That's the kind of research we would get. Wait, may I offer a counterpoint? No. Sure. This monster that Dr. Frankenstein has created,
01:40:22
Speaker
Um, it's, it's a new life, right? Like it's cobbled together from different parts and everything. And it's a new life that he's creating, right? So.
01:40:30
Speaker
So technically, like maybe the monster is his son or at least kind of his offspring, his creation. So maybe this monster is Frankenstein. Does he have a first name? Maybe not, but like he's still technically a Frankenstein. He's a motherfucking Frankenstein. So this is where I defer. Is there really a new life? Because he's not creating a brain from scratch. He's actually taking someone else's brain.
01:40:57
Speaker
And that brain has all of you. If memories are where the brain lives, it does. The brain is where our memories. Yeah, but I would I feel like like I don't know this because I'm not a doctor nor my brain scientist. But the memories get wiped out when we as someone who doesn't believe in the soul. We're speaking of this very medically and scientifically, right? When you die, once the electricity stops moving through your brain, once that life force leaves,
01:41:26
Speaker
Is that stuff in there? Does it even really exist in the first place? Or is it like a byproduct of this organ that's in your head? And once you die, it stops producing or retaining that, like, whatever it is.
01:41:42
Speaker
Well, that's like one of the ethical questions that like you draw on the thing and you and then it's there you go. Sorry. It's one of the ethical questions that ghosts of Frankenstein touches on and then runs far away from. I was going to say not enough in my involved. That's too bad. Right. Where one point like the evil doctor is like,
01:42:07
Speaker
You can't dissect and kill this creature like it's a living creature. It has a life of its own to kill it would be murder and then it's never addressed again, you know, but it's like actually kind of fascinating like no like this is like whether or not
01:42:23
Speaker
you know, whether or not we created this quote unquote monster, it is a living creature and we bear it some responsibility. You can't just kill it. Well, I'm sure they, I'm sorry, go ahead, Mike. That's kind of this, that's kind of as far as I wanted to take that thought.
01:42:42
Speaker
Well, I was going to say they probably go into that in somewhat the existential crisis of it all in Andy Warhol's Frankenstein. You guys are covering that, too, with the rest. No, we're just doing universal. Fuck. Nobody wants to touch that one. Somebody do a podcast on Andy Warhol's Frankenstein. Put it out, dude. Put it as a straight up. Well, come on, this podcast, you bunch of shit, but you could do it here.
01:43:08
Speaker
We're here right now? All right, let's talk about it. So guys, Andy Warhol's Frankenstein. You guys seen this? You heard about this? You seen this? I have not seen it. Nor I. It's pretty far out there. Episode over. We're pretty used to theme song and roll the credits. I was going to say, Mike is a therapist here, so I'm going to defer to him on brain stuff.
01:43:33
Speaker
I did not have that context I apologize that's that's where I well once you die I have no idea what happens inside of your brain I mean that is
01:43:45
Speaker
I don't know, use Apple with electricity, does that way you're, I think that's what I wrestle with when I watch rankings. I'm like, is it your own, are you really creating new life from scratch? Because you have all these like stitched together parts. So that is, are you just kind of like recreating an old life again?
01:44:03
Speaker
That's one of the fascinating things. I think in the context of horror film tropes as well, the fact that you are also introducing parts from other beings. Right. Even though that's not something I believe in in real life, in in horror films like that might influence it, too. Like, you know, you see the movies where it's like he got the hand of a killer. So now he's trying to kill people.
01:44:27
Speaker
Cause you got a hand transplant, idle hands. Yeah. Like, so you kind of have to, that didn't happen in that movie. Steven, that's why you need to see it. So you don't sound dumb on a podcast. Dude, I have a podcast. I always sound dumb on a podcast. What are you talking about? That's what I do.
Finding the Podcasts
01:44:46
Speaker
Anyway, Mike, where can the people find you and the pod in the pendulum on the social medias? Uh, you can find me at I can find the part of the pendulum at part of the pendulum.com. You can find us at pod and pendulum on Twitter, part of the pendulum on Instagram. You can find me at letterbox at Mike chump change. Right on. Or I don't usually make pithy comments on movies. If I review a movie.
01:45:16
Speaker
I do it straight up. I every now and then make funny comments, though. You do. But they're good funny comments. I was going to say they're actually funny. Warrented probably, too. What was that? What was your handle on the letter? My jump change. All one word. Yeah, I was going to say it's the same as his handle of his endcaster mating now.
01:45:35
Speaker
Oh, sweet. And we are the disenfranchised podcast. You can follow us on the socials of your choice at disenfranch pod. We're on, I think, active on Blue Sky, Letterboxd, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube right now. Find us in all those places. Wherever you get your podcast, please leave us a nice five star rating and review, particularly if you are on Spotify and Apple podcasts.
01:46:00
Speaker
The algorithm likes that and will disperse us to more ears, similar to your own. And we do truly, truly appreciate that. You can also head over to our Patreon, patreon.com slash disenfranch pod, where you can find just so many podcasts that we've recorded, including the aforementioned episode of Upsall Christianity Corner on Martin Scorsese's
01:46:24
Speaker
with Last Temptation of Christ. You can also find our most recent episode of Unenfranchised on one of Tucker's darlings, The Rage Colon, Carrie 2 from 1999. Already a patron favorite. Already a patron favorite. People comment and liken this motherfucker like it's like it's the new dance, like it's the twist, Steven. Sure. We'll go with that.
01:46:48
Speaker
One person comments and it's it's the whole world. So yeah that that works But the comment was so positive and so validating Steven III know I definitely understand it was it was validating quite the comp filled my heart like Always good as I read that comment. I was like, well, there's no good. There's gonna be no living with him after this is what I thought It's something um
01:47:15
Speaker
And yeah, so that's where you can find us and all of our things. Shoot us an email at disenfranchpod at gmail.com if there is a failed franchise starter. You would like to see us cover coming up later this month. We've actually got a listener request coming through. And then we've got another one popping in at next month as well, mainly because we didn't do any last year. So we're doing a couple of them right out of the gate this year.
01:47:37
Speaker
Um, and, uh, yeah, I'm your host, Steven Foxworthy. You can find me on, uh, Instagram, Blue Sky, uh, Letterboxed at Chewy Walrus. Tucker, where can we find you on socials these days?
01:47:51
Speaker
Oh, hi, it's me, Tucker, and you can find me on Instagram and YouTube at ice 909. That's I-C-E-N-I-N-E, the number zero and the number nine. Also on Instagram is the world famous tuck mugs page. That's tuck underscore mugs. You know what? We've been pumping out content lately, like more consistently than we have been pretty much since the beginning of the project.
01:48:17
Speaker
Correct. OK, we've had three guest mugs in a row. And today, today, time of recording, which is Friday, February 2nd, we dropped a brand new standard ass Tookie post because I got a new mug. You guys are kind of one of 2024, I think. So go to go to Instagram. Look up Tuck underscore mugs.
01:48:42
Speaker
follow that motherfucker and check out my mugs and the mugs of my friends. And if you want to submit a guest mug, just shoot that mug with a description of the mug where you got it and what you have in it to disenfranchpod at gmail.com and it'll be put into consideration.
01:49:01
Speaker
Now, some some guest mugs have come unsolicited through messaging on Instagram, and I'm all for that too, Steven. So if you're on Instagram and you want to just shoot us a message with your submission, like I can't imagine we'd ever like, like decline a submission.
01:49:21
Speaker
I feel like I just put a challenge out there. I was going to say that falls into your purview, not mine. Can't believe I've done this. Well, no, actually, I don't I don't actually run the page, Steven. I'm just I just curate the content, man. I guess that's what I need as a manager, you know, as curator that falls under your purview, though. Oh, shit, you're right. Well, yeah, just text me if anybody puts anything really gross on there or something. I always do.
01:49:47
Speaker
Spoiler, Steven's my social media manager. Hi, hello. I'm the staff that he goes on and on about from week to week. It's me. It's just me. I just thought of so many dirty jokes and I just can't pick one right now. Steven, that's you've really wow. Yeah.
01:50:08
Speaker
Well done, I'm done now. And if you miss Brett Wright, then check out him on Instagram. We constantly check him out on Instagram and letterboxed at sus underscore warlock or on blue sky at sus warlock, no underscore. And just tell him how much you miss hearing him on the podcast from week to week.
01:50:29
Speaker
And that is all we have to say, finally, about 2017's Valentine. Mike Snunian, thank you once again so much for coming on. Thank you. Always, always love having you on. Let's get you on for a non-Valentine's episode.
01:50:44
Speaker
Just what whatever. And a non-horror too. We'll find something that's non-horror so you can kind of relax in the hot tub with your boys, you know. And I have a tentative idea for next Valentine's Day as well that I will run by you when we're done recording. Sounds good. That's exciting. So I'm going to throw that at you here in a second. Mike, again, it's always a pleasure. Check out all his stuff. He is the best. And until next time, I am your host, Stephen Foxworthy. This has been the disenfranchised podcast.
01:51:14
Speaker
for the absent Brett Wright, the present Tucker, and the very special guest, Mr. Mike Sununian. Until next time, I'm about to roundhouse kick this motherfucker in the face. Like she do in the movie.
01:51:43
Speaker
you