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Business of Machining - Episode 53
202 Plays7 years ago
Yesterday, the SpaceX Falcon Heavy rocket launched. For all of us, it is a testament to our ability to keep pushing the limits. Make sure you DON'T PANIC! Saunders receives an intoxicating opportunity but it takes a while for the gravity to hit. Check out the post HERE! PAY THOSE DUES Although tips for success are plastered everywhere, they won't be enough to get you there. Getting started is not for the faint of heart or those who don't welcome the idea of a 60+ hour work week. How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie Mr. and Mrs. Grimsmo attend the Mayor's Gala Ball lookin' spiffy...in threads from the 1790's! THAT YOUTUBE STING Biting words from viewers take a toll. Saunders considers pausing the Wednesday Widgets but for Grimsmo, a foam video takes off! GK Foam Video How to Care for Your GK Robin Renzetti's INSTAGRAM & YouTube Channel. One month into 2018, Angelo makes a seamless transition into GK, the Norseman fixture is done-- everything's on the up and up. Saunders and Grimsmo caution themselves about lifestyle creep. Purchases must be preparatory at MINIMUM. Head over to the Business of Machining Patreon to check out the GK machine shop crash!
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Hosts
00:00:00
Speaker
Good morning, folks. Welcome to the business of machining. My name is John Saunders. My name is John Grimsmo, and this is episode number 53. Thank you. Okay, so what do you literally, we're about to hit record and John starts laughing. What's up?
00:00:15
Speaker
So the shelf behind you in your office, every time I see you on the podcast, I look for new stuff. Oh, that's your like, that's your like goody shelf where you don't use stuff too much. And like Ben's light was there for a couple months and I was like, Oh, cool. And now it's gone. And I'm like, what's going to take its place using the light now.
00:00:32
Speaker
It's actually great. It's one of those things I wanted to use it, but I'm very particular about what's on my desk. The shelves behind me are proof that shelves are a terrible thing in life. They just accumulate junk.
Machining Titanium Insights
00:00:47
Speaker
They really do. Good. I see one of your modular clamps or whatever you call it, the C clamp.
00:00:57
Speaker
A roll of paper towels and just books and garbage and what's not one of those big blocks of material at the bottom. You ready for this? We don't get a ton of viewer gifts, but when we do get them, sometimes they rock. A guy sent in seven chunks of one inch titanium. Yep. One inch titanium. It's like like 12 by 12 or eight by eight. Yeah, seven by seven.
00:01:22
Speaker
Okay, seven by six, I think. But but oh, no, seven by eight, seven pieces of it, though. Whoa, that is some serious titanium. Like you picked it up and I'm like, Oh, it's aluminum because it didn't look too heavy. And then you see the color of it and you're like, wait,
00:01:37
Speaker
It's insane. It's funny, I've machined titanium once on the 440 to see if I could for a guy who wanted to buy a machine that is a knife maker and it wasn't that hard, but I've never really machined titanium. I'm not nervous about it, but I was thinking I should really hit up Grimsmo. I assume chip load per tooth, sharp tooling.
00:01:57
Speaker
I don't know what else. You can't abuse it. It's sort of like aluminum. You can't plunge an end mill dry into aluminum kind of thing. It'll load up. Same with Thai. It's a little bit gummy. So you always got a helix in. You got to keep your chip load right, keep the SFM at like 150, and then you're ready to rock. It'll do whatever you want. So I'm thinking you need like a giant coaster or a desk tray or something out of that piece. We got way cooler planned.
SpaceX Job Offer and Career Discussion
00:02:24
Speaker
Oh, yes, I got wait.
00:02:27
Speaker
Way cooler place. So that's what I was saying. I was like, people freak out about titanium. And hey, I've never cut it. And there are materials, you know, the Incanels, the Hastelloyes, even some of the stainless is where you do certain things or you violate fall outside of this pretty narrow band of either surface footage or cutting strategies. And that material just says no, thanks. And it will just pop in the mills or drills. But is it really that bad?
00:02:55
Speaker
No, I do it all day, every day. And you just get used to it. I used to do it on my X2, my little, you know, 100 pound machine. I'm familiar. I also went on a 2008, what was it, 2011 Grimsmo binge recently, watching you flip fixtures with dowel pins and stuff. Nice. Hold end mills and a drill chuck. Yeah. Did you really?
00:03:21
Speaker
Oh, yeah, that's how it is. The only way I did it in the beginning. That's great. I love it. I was thinking more about that, just like how happy I am to. Well, I feel like we should talk about the thing I posted last night, which honestly, I didn't even really. It didn't hit me as I think as it didn't hit me with the gravity, pun intended, when I first got the emails I did last night, and I think partly because
00:03:51
Speaker
The SpaceX launch makes me proud of what we can do and accomplish. Did you guys watch? I didn't watch the launch or anything. I'm meaning to catch up at some point. So explain the email for those who didn't catch your one post. So I got an email last week from a guy who said, I kind of want to read it because I feel like it's better if I don't. You need to print it out and frame it on the wall because in 50 years, your grandkids are going to be like, oh, cool. I think I will. No, I think that's fair.
00:04:21
Speaker
from a guy named Austin G. Hey John, I've been watching your channel for a few months now. It's bad word I'm not gonna say because we have to rate these podcasts as I think kid friendly. I don't know if you can say that word. You guys know what I mean. I would love to chat with you about applying for a job at SpaceX. We need talent like you at our company. Give me a call.
00:04:44
Speaker
which obviously that's not a job offer. It's an opportunity to interview. But when those emails come inbound, that's, I mean, and so I read it, I was actually honestly legitimately thought. And I thought about this, I was like, what companies would I do two things for? One would be shut down, everything I've done in
Automation, Creativity, and Podcasting
00:05:03
Speaker
the business here or some form of transitioning it or something. But my involvement would be ceased to be there. And in leaving Ohio,
00:05:12
Speaker
neither of which are small decisions, but on the flip side, I think in some respects I'd be more willing to do it than I think I would. Does that make sense? Yeah, if, yeah. And so definitely, definitely not for me right now, but somebody said it great on Facebook. They were like, amazing to get that email and even more amazing that you were in a position to be able to pass.
00:05:39
Speaker
Yeah. So my take was, guys, like our story is as transparent as it comes. You know, John Grimsavo, you did not go to college. I did not go have any training, neither of us had any training in machining and look at what we're doing. John, we were joking too. That email could have very easily been mistakenly meant to go to you and not me. Like there's no, I'm not sure SpaceX is willing to have somebody that's obsessed with perfection as you are, because the rocket would never fly.
00:06:05
Speaker
No, what do you mean? My post on Instagram was like, folks, if you're passionate about something, you've got to do it with an unapologetic
00:06:14
Speaker
passion and you got to keep the family afloat and you got to keep life working. I'm not one of those that advocates just pursue your, I think Mike Gross has it best. You've got to be able to make sure it's a formidable and real career, but generally the trades, engineering, machining, science, those things are generally legitimate trades. You are gainfully employed in any country or any city in just about every macro economic environment.
00:06:44
Speaker
Yep, and that's likely never to go away. You know, automation is definitely altering that. I was having a conversation with a really good friend of mine. He's a physics teacher, like super smart, like, like really down to earth guy. And I really enjoy hanging out with him and
00:06:59
Speaker
But we were talking about automation and killing out entry-level jobs. Imagine if McDonald's stops hiring young people and just automates everything, then all these young people have no work. Like in our town, it's really hard for a 15, 16-year-old to find a job. Anyway, I figured out after thinking about this for a while that we're all going to have to explore our creativity.
00:07:23
Speaker
You and I get to be creative in our jobs. I get to create cool products and figure out how to do them. And everybody that works here gets to explore their own creativity and cannot be automated. And we automate everything we can. Like Erin and I, we're looking into automating the description making process of this podcast because they precisely suggested it. We've got to come back to that. Yeah, OK.
00:07:44
Speaker
Because we couldn't figure it out. No. But yet. Yet. The first try was just unsuccessful. But I'm like, try to get it. Let's try and fail. Try and fail. Could be hilarious. Did you ever watch the show Arrested Development? I never did, no. It was hilarious. And I don't know how many people caught on to this. But at the end of the episode, they were like, in next week's Arrested Development, and then they'd list like four or five things that would happen, and they'd show footage of it. That was never what happened. Oh, really? No, yeah.
00:08:13
Speaker
Oh, that's funny. This week's Business and Machine Group talks about the 10-pallet 5-axis pull-up pallet pull machine that he bought. And next week, we don't talk about it. That's awesome. So I love this topic, and I care about it, about how do I get started, and is it hard, and can people have that attitude? And to me, I tend to look at that all optimistically. Good. I'm glad it's hard, because guess what? That means most people are going to give up.
00:08:43
Speaker
Yep. Not even
Reflecting on Career Passion and Opportunities
00:08:44
Speaker
start. It actually makes it so much easier for the people that are smart and deliberate and work hard. Now, there's a fine line because I've been interacting with a few millennials that I'll be honest, they really annoy me. They really rub me the wrong way. It's all me, me, me. There are people who are of all ages guilty of that.
00:09:03
Speaker
I have seen it more and you've got to be conscious of what you're able to do for somebody else. It again is why the book Dale Carnegie, how to win friends and influence people really helped shape my kind of adulthood belief on trying to succeed and how you have that balance of passion, but also humility. And I joke that sometimes in an interview, you need to respond to the question and then you need to shut up.
00:09:30
Speaker
The less you say, the better. When you have an interviewer who just wants to talk about himself, frankly, annoying, good for you. That means you're probably doing okay. If anything, it means the interviewer is intimidated by you or self-conscious or just self-absorbed and he just wants to talk. Let him talk. Anyway. Yeah. Good tip. Yeah, very good tip. Practical. Right.
00:09:52
Speaker
I also saw some comments about people complaining that the jobs at SpaceX are relatively low paying and you work 60 hours a week. And I just thought there's another great threshold. If you're not interested in getting started, it could be because you think you deserve a lot more and 60 hours a week is a lot of work. Goodbye.
00:10:11
Speaker
I mean, I don't know anybody who's accomplished great things and is working a 36, 40 hour week asking for six figures the day out of college. Exactly. And is that the expectation that college kids have? I don't know. Come on. I don't know. Yeah.
00:10:33
Speaker
Like I literally don't track my hours. I spend, you know, eight to nine hours at the shop, but I work a lot from home. I work weekends from home. Like literally 80 plus percent of my job is on my computer, which I can do from anywhere. And I do. Right.
00:10:49
Speaker
I like you because you're not one of those people that needs to state that to say that you're better than anybody else. It's just a fact, frankly, to a fault. I've done a decent job. I wouldn't say a great job, but a decent job this year of the whole firing myself. What I'm doing is now backfilling all of that another free time with
00:11:12
Speaker
Mostly with other work now. Yeah, I will have done a better job of I think what was it yesterday morning? I actually came to work for a couple hours and went back and helped get the kids ready for school. That was actually kind of fun. And I feel like that's a good being able to do that is nice. But yeah, you still work your butt off. Yeah. And are you complaining? Am I complaining? No. Agreed. No. There's a difference.
00:11:39
Speaker
You can't be so naive as to let yourself burn out. Burnout is not a feeble, hypochondriac, whiny thing. I mean, that's real. You can't get burned out. That's all. Yeah, we both had it for sure. So at what stage in burnout are you in this past week?
00:12:00
Speaker
I will say that to try to pull in a pun about rockets burning, the event last night with SpaceX launching the rocket ship and then realizing what that email meant, it's validation. It's like when Autodesk first asked me to go talk and I was like, what is going on? This is like, fine, you can call SolidWorks the number one for
00:12:24
Speaker
You're getting staying away from the crazy stuff Katia or whatever But you know like number one or number two CAD company in the world is asking me to go speak like that's validation Yeah, and that's what you know didn't happen overnight. It was never my like particular goal But it is happening and it's exciting and it's not me. It's not you it's everyone else that we interact with it That's having these opportunities and being passionate and we live in a great world so it was it was I actually
00:12:54
Speaker
I was making a note. I was like, I should tell John. I legitimately felt drunk last night, like that absolute endorphin high or whatever you call it. I don't know what the chemicals are. Watching, being able to post that and just kind of enjoy the moment. It was really cool. Nice. How are you feeling?
00:13:14
Speaker
I'm feeling really, really solidly good. I've been sick for the past four or five days and it really did kick my butt. Just getting over it. I actually had like great sleep last night and I feel good, like better now.
00:13:29
Speaker
What was it? On Saturday? Saturday or Sunday? Saturday night. My wife Meg and I, we went to the Mayor's Gala Ball. Fancy. Fancy. So every year, the Rotary Club of Grimsby, where we live, they do this big event, bringing 150 of the power players in town. Cool. And they do like charities. And it's like,
00:13:52
Speaker
I forget if it was $300 or $150 a plate. But all that money goes to a charity in town. And the museum that my wife volunteers at, it's a 1795 manor house. And so that's the charity that they're donating to this year. Oh, cool. And my wife's been a huge part volunteer, all free, for transforming this place into something
00:14:21
Speaker
staple in the town now anyway so we got invited to this like big fancy event everybody's wearing tuxedos we walk up in period costume in like 1790s clothing yeah because she's all into that right she made her own dress in the course of a week and then she make your dress
00:14:38
Speaker
Yeah, she made my dress. No, she she borrowed some like soldier kind of Mr. Darcy from Sense and Sensibility Clothing. And she refused to let me get a haircut because she wanted my long hair to like swoop around with and it was it was cool because everybody else was dressed fancy and like trying to be fancier than each other. And where the two that come up dressed uniquely, you know, beautiful, like, like really cool looking.
00:15:03
Speaker
And we stood out in a perfect way, like a sore thumb, and we had all this confidence and swagger. And we're there for the event. Everybody thought that I worked there too, but that's okay. And, you know, like two or three people, I got to tell my actual business to everybody else just assume that I also volunteered. But it was such a cool event and, you know, fancy steak dinner and
00:15:26
Speaker
Erin, who works for us, produced a video with Meg about the manor, and it was awesome. Legitimately, the skills she's learned here in the past two months, she got to apply to that. That's awesome. She got to show that to everybody at that event. The mayor saw it, all this stuff. She had people coming up to her afterwards saying, great job. I'm like, did you get any job offers? Immediately? She didn't, but I'm like, this leads to other things. You know what I mean?
00:15:53
Speaker
Well, I'm sorry. Why do we not have pictures of this on Instagram yet? Uh, make posted one on hers and I should post one. Do you wear a Norseman in this outfit?
00:16:04
Speaker
I did. I thought about it beforehand. I'm like, Ooh, I'm wearing dark pants. Maybe I should wear my black rask, but I didn't have it on me. So I'm like, yeah, I'm just going to wear a door. It's awesome. And it was great because I got, I got to pass it around our table and everyone was like, wow, that's so cool. I got to tell my story. And, um, and so my wife looks at me like halfway through the night and she goes, wait, how did we get here again? Because I can clearly remember like eight years ago, we're stuck in a house with no,
00:16:34
Speaker
future. We have no idea what we're going to do. We're broke. We have no real prospects. She's working a halftime job. I have no money coming
Networking and Community Engagement
00:16:44
Speaker
in. And we're stressed eight years ago. What are we going to do with our lives? And then she's like, how did we get here? Look around. Your business is taking off. And I'm volunteering at this manner. And we're taking it places.
00:17:01
Speaker
you know, like she wants to actually create a mini series filmed at the manor. Like her volunteer time is sort of secretly selfish. Because okay, really, she walked in like a 1700s house. But this is her kind of entry into doing that. And she's like, I want to be able to film a mini series with Aaron in that house, because now I have the ability to ask, you know what I mean? So yeah, just funny story. But that was my weekend. That's amazing. Good for you.
00:17:29
Speaker
And for folks like when you're trying to get started, you think about opportunities like, you know, for in your case, you know, you're doing a helping with Aaron filming, that gets your name out and does a really good genuinely, you're not expecting something in return for that. But
00:17:48
Speaker
the more applicable or direct analogy for the sort of making world is, you know, if you've got access to a laser at a maker space, go make something for an event like that or go machine a part for the robotics club. And guess what? The advisors on the robotics club are probably involved with manufacturing in your area and do it genuinely. Don't do it because you're trying to just shill your work and don't do it because you're then expecting the robotics club to pay for your work later. Just do it.
00:18:14
Speaker
And because you sincerely want to be part of that, and it's those sort of genuine actions where you're not looking for something in return that'll start to work. And it's not a one-to-one. You can't say, well, in two months, I should have X number of leads out of that opportunity. No, you just don't want it to get started. And it works. It really does.
00:18:33
Speaker
Yeah, to genuinely place a foothold in your local community of manufacturing and just make friends, make connections. Like, I want to do a video on this because it's something I've been thinking about for the past eight years, basically.
00:18:46
Speaker
where I was eight years ago, I was just getting into manufacturing and I did eventually get to step into one machine shop and they had a bunch of houses and they probably had, you know, 15 or 20 machines and it was the coolest thing I had ever seen in my life. And I need to like tell young kids and anybody really
00:19:06
Speaker
knock on every door in town, call them up, ask to talk to the boss, not the secretary, and just ask for a tour. Just ask to make friends. And some of them are going to say, no, this is aerospace. You have to log in, and you have to have credentials. Whatever. Try anyway. Walk into every shop. You will learn so much. You'll make connections. You'll make friends. You might even get a job out of it.
00:19:28
Speaker
The opportunities are out there, and there's so much hidden manufacturing, you don't even know. It's insane when you drive by the road. Even in San Antonio, like a small town, right? There's lots of manufacturing there. Yeah. It's super cool, and I enjoyed
00:19:44
Speaker
your maintenance video on endorsement, not even so much because I own an endorsement or frankly because I don't really plan on doing a lot of maintenance unless I see a problem, which is the sense I got from your video was kind of a don't worry about it unless it's not locking up or whatever.
00:20:02
Speaker
There's a really subtle outcome of that video, which I'm not even sure you realize, but it's that really good entrepreneurs have the ability to kind of put up blinders to the outside world and kind of live in the passion of their product. And what that means is huge amounts of time and human, I mean, listening to your inner monologue become an outer monologue as you were like, oh, wait a minute here. We came up with the double pins or we moved into this system or we added this implementer. This was the date.
00:20:29
Speaker
none of that stuff is known to anybody else, really, even to me. Because it's stuck in my head, right? And so seeing that is actually a really important part of me, and appreciating the knife and appreciating your story, being able to tell that story to other people. Because ultimately, we're all very social creatures, and we kind of enjoy this. And so there is that element of
00:20:51
Speaker
of a balance as an entrepreneur of being just so focused that you don't worry about the criticism and you ignore the noise, but then also being able to kind of stop and share where you are with the outside world and share the progress.
00:21:05
Speaker
Yes. And that was partly conscious. I was partly aware of doing that because I've felt it for years. I haven't done that in a while. We're doing these flashy shop life videos where they're fast paced and I don't talk too much. And then we want to get more into these meat and potatoes videos where we're just like,
00:21:24
Speaker
Full inner monologue becomes outer monologue and just get to explain right right and it's gonna be slow and boring if you're into it great Right. Otherwise wait till the next one, you know Right. So I'm gonna do more like that. Yeah, I am
00:21:39
Speaker
I am fed up with myself for continuing to be conscious of this, but I spend too much energy or not time, but I let my mood get affected too much by the expectations of videos. I know I shouldn't, but that doesn't make it easy.
00:21:59
Speaker
I feel like, I don't know if this is going to make sense, but I'm now much more conscious when I watch a comedian or when I watch a TV show or a commercial, the Super Bowl commercials. I'm like, that was stinks. That was terrible. That was brutal. The reality is it wasn't that bad. When you're on the other end of that, which is as a content creator, I am,
00:22:18
Speaker
It actually really stings, and I'd like to think I'm thick skinned, but it's all these different things.
Content Creation and Audience Engagement
00:22:25
Speaker
You can't please everybody. You got to seek your passion. But at the end of the day, we want to put out content that people enjoy watching. And there's a little bit of audience reshuffling. Like, sure, I don't think John Gersow cares of five people unsubscribed because of the maintenance video. You got way more that we're passionate and enjoyed and out of it. So good riddance, right? And those are the people I want. Yeah, exactly.
00:22:48
Speaker
It's funny because it makes me want to say what I think about spending less time doing YouTube or whatever. I'm like, no, I love it. I absolutely love it. I just don't love the negativity sometimes or whatever you want to call it.
00:23:01
Speaker
You don't love the concept of trying to please everybody because you know you never will, even though you want to. And as you said earlier, I think before the podcast, you're like, I know that I could make these flashy, weird project videos that would get a billion views, but that's not, that's not who you are really.
00:23:21
Speaker
I personally think you should do both and you are. Yeah. But then that makes creates the I think that's what part of the problem is it creates a lot of pressure like that chunk of titanium. It's like we got to do this. I'm like no, like we have so much in the pipe we have to kind of part of me is thinking
00:23:36
Speaker
Actually, it was right when I moved to Ohio. I started the Wednesday widget and I did it as a discipline mechanism because it's like going to the gym. I was like, we're going to do a video every Wednesday. I'm making a part or something. Today's is 183.
00:23:55
Speaker
For 183 straight weeks without skipping one ever, we have put out a, they've gotten better, but all of them were well produced. None of them were ever like, I'm just going to wing it because I got lazy. Part of me is thinking I'm going to get to 200 and hit pause.
00:24:15
Speaker
maybe go to every two weeks or maybe change it up. I want to be careful to not get into some rhythm of not posting, but I don't know. Sometimes it's even thinking that, letting yourself think that, that helps you
00:24:30
Speaker
relax a little about, OK, what do we want to do? I want to put out great content. But next week's video is actually next week's video is on a fixturing technique. I think the week thereafter is on thread milling. It's not going to be a great video for a lot of people for entertainment value. But I want to do the best darn video on thread milling that's ever been put out. We spent two months researching this, pulling values out of machinery's handbook, understanding what pitch diameter offset is, understanding why a lot of thread mills don't fit the first time. We talked about this a couple weeks ago.
00:25:00
Speaker
We keep doing testing. It's not going to be like this 100,000 hit view video, but I don't care, but that you also still inevitably judge yourself by relative, I guess it's all relative. Maybe that's what I have to keep in mind. I see the machinery's handbook, machinery handbook on the shelf. Here's the difference.
00:25:24
Speaker
You're talking about writing the machinery handbook or writing Harry Potter. Yeah, right. Harry Potter is going to sell a billion copies, whatever. Machinery's handbook is going to be the most useful tool in the world for that application. I have only opened one of those two books. Actually, I own multiple copies of the Machinery's handbook. I do not own any Harry Potter. I've heard it's good. It's funny. Yeah.
00:25:52
Speaker
You're creating value, like real value. And you're helping people learn threadmilling, which is I use all the time. And I will still probably learn 50% of what you're sharing on that video that I've never heard of before kind of thing. So I can't wait. I'm going to appreciate it. Right. And that's actually, I was on the phone with Robin Renzetti about a week ago quickly for a help on something.
00:26:17
Speaker
If you guys don't know Robin Renzetti, you should definitely follow his Instagram and his YouTube channel because he's an amazingly capable individual who has a very, very wonderful sense of humility and a willingness to now sort of pay it forward and share it and so forth. He's the kind of guy who's bumping millions out of building spindles and run outs and his setups are incredible.
00:26:42
Speaker
And we were talking about this for a second. I somehow got onto it and we kind of hit this wonderful point, which is hard for me to, it's one of those things where I acknowledge it, but it doesn't, hasn't sunk in yet, which is it's all relative as much as I'm sitting here frustrated. Cause I wish every view I video I put out had 50 or a hundred thousand views for honestly, for no reason. Again, if the numbers were all just made up, I'd still be happy. I'd still be equally as enjoy what I do, which is maybe contrary. But, um,
00:27:09
Speaker
But there's a lot of people who think, oh my gosh, that's insane, because I only get 500 views. It's all relative. Casey Neistat puts out a video and gets 2 million. You just got to do it because you enjoy it. And I do enjoy it.
00:27:22
Speaker
Yep. Well, like our videos, you know, we get, you know, five to 10,000 views, uh, within the first few weeks, whatever for most videos. And then we put out the foam video, how to cut foam. Last I looked was a week ago. Is it 75,000 views? Good for you. And it's probably probably over a hundred. I haven't even checked, but I'm like, what just happened with this video? And part of me is like, let's do more of that. Whatever it was.
00:27:45
Speaker
Because it was fun, it was good, but it drew people in. You are addicted too. It stinks, but it's like popularity in high school or peer validation or the endorphin high of somebody liking your Facebook post. I want to say I'm immune to it, but the reality is we all get a little kick when we get that bump in whatever, right? The other reality is you and I are now employing a full-time person paying them tens of thousands of dollars a year
00:28:15
Speaker
to do this. But that's not my creator's problem. That's my problem. Yeah. Right. Right. It's just when you and I were doing it ourselves, we didn't have that expense. We were paying ourselves to do it. Sure. But I don't know. You know what I mean? It's a real job now. Right. Right. It's all good.
00:28:40
Speaker
How soon is that sharpening video coming out? We haven't started working on it yet, but we should. Enorsement definitely is, I'm using it a lot. It is definitely dull. But that's a good thing, right?
00:28:57
Speaker
Yeah, it's a good thing. Oh, so this is cool too. Going back kind of like to talking to people and being a good person. Like a year ago or something, film that little video with Mitu Toyu. I mean, again, they were like, would you be willing to let us come film a couple of product announcements at your shop? And I'm like, yeah, yes. And so I got to know the guys and I enjoyed their tools and using them and so forth.
00:29:21
Speaker
We have a interestingly complicated metrology problem, which I'll go into later. I want to get to the solution first before I dive too deep. I was talking to my mid to toy rep and I should send them a little video, which again, it's like talking about how do you differentiate yourself in life? How do you do well? How do you get started?
00:29:42
Speaker
The fact that we send videos to people, they're just like, which is so, so easy when everybody owns a smartphone. There's nothing complicated to this. I don't edit them. I literally just go filming.
00:29:53
Speaker
Yeah, we do too. And they're like, oh my gosh, this is the best thing I've ever gotten to help me understand the problem or what we're trying to do.
Collaboration in Problem Solving
00:30:01
Speaker
And he's about two and a half hours away. And his just immediate response was, I'd really like to come up, see this hands on, work with you hands on, figure out what products we need to recommend for you, how to do it. And I was like, Drew, I feel bad. I was trying to send you the video so you didn't have to.
00:30:18
Speaker
come up because I may not even need to buy anything. I really just need help with the process and I kind of want, you know, there's a huge value to me of being able to tell myself or my customers, Hey, Mitsu Toyu helped us develop this process, this recipe, they blessed it and so forth. And he's like, he's like, absolutely. He's like, uh, that's what we do. Um, we, I will, he was supposed to come up this morning, but we got quite a bit of snow. So he's going to come up tomorrow. But, um,
00:30:43
Speaker
That's like, that makes you happy. Like really, having those kind of people on your team, having that process, being able to learn, share, like it's just awesome. Absolutely. And not being afraid to ask. Right. You know? Right. Midgatorio is like the biggest metrology company in the world, whatever. I don't know if it's true, but they're huge, right? So to like call them up and be like, hey, I've got this problem. I need a solution. You know, from a small bootstrapper startup,
00:31:12
Speaker
perspective like most people would not do that but this is you and I telling everybody call up whoever you need to talk to and you'll be surprised at the answers you get you know and in shopper I mean I'm happy I found I consider this a good relationship I've got some vendors that I have to still deal with and
00:31:31
Speaker
and it stinks and there's always they always have excuses and there's always a ramble or they don't the worst is when they don't feel like it's marriage sometimes i have a great marriage but like we know
Financial Responsibility in Growing Business
00:31:41
Speaker
when you're like i just want you to listen to what i'm saying and that's what that makes me awesome they're helping you know they're not selling a metrology tool they're selling me a solution reducing stress improving quality including improving process knowing that they'll be there uh it's it's good stuff
00:32:01
Speaker
Yeah, the best salesman will do that, a solution, even if it's not their own. The best ones are the ones that are like, actually, we don't make the product that you need. You need to talk to this other company. And you appreciate that so much. Yeah, totally. On that note, I figured that was a good thing. I'd made a note to, it seems like you and I are both so far knock on wood doing well this year, which is just awesome. But I have a note to myself to just remind
00:32:28
Speaker
Well, by reminding you, I'm really reminding myself, but just let's be conscious of the lifestyle creep. Yes, I'm more willing to buy some of these metrology tools because I feel like I can. It's so quickly to justify. It's not even a preparatory purchase. It's right. You'll need it now. But let's let's not. And just to be clear, I think I still am ultra conservative, but like
00:32:56
Speaker
The lifestyle creep is important. It's a real thing. All of a sudden, those $2,000 barrels of quality chem, it's like, that's not a big deal. That's not a big deal. But it's cheaper than if you buy the five-gallon drugs. Preparatory purchase.
00:33:14
Speaker
Right. Right. We're going to need it. All right. So on that note, I've got two points. So today is Wednesday. So Angelo, our machinist, has now had four full days at the shop. And today will be his fifth day. And I'm
00:33:29
Speaker
blown away. I'm really, really happy with how it's working out. The first day he came in, you know, I thought it would be like, we would just be chatting the whole day, but no, we were making parts like all day and chatting during that process. And he was just shadowing me and he knows his machines and he knows how to process everything and
00:33:48
Speaker
So the integration was very quick for the immediate thing. He's not some new person off the street, which is super helpful. And the first day, I was just like, wow, this is great. We actually made a lot of stuff today. Then the second day, we had some machine crashes, my fault.
00:34:04
Speaker
And it's going to happen. Well, John, to be clear, John and I don't know exactly specifically what we're going to do with the business of machining Patreon. So I'm very conscious to not misrepresent that. We're not here to cut out this podcast and move the juicy stuff over there. But as a fun little quirk and incentive, John did a really good write up and some photos of what happened on a machine shop crash over on the business of machining Patreon.
00:34:36
Speaker
Yep, so yeah, we're becoming more active on that. So if you want to sign up for that, then I'm going to try to hide to put some kind of behind the scenes stories, like story time kind of thing on there every now and then. I don't know. But it's fun. So yeah, so we had a bit of a lathe crash. Luckily didn't break anything more than a few hundred dollars of collets and tools and things like that. It could have been much worse.
00:35:00
Speaker
And then we spent two days kind of dialing in this one job on the lathe, which was just really difficult. And then another day. Yeah, it was. Have I told you I hate lathes? You know, exactly. Fixing the crash and then dialing in tolerances and tweaking a bunch of tools. And then, but now that we're running that part, we're like, let's just run a thousand of them because we're going to need them. Yeah.
00:35:25
Speaker
And we don't need anything else critically right now on the lathe. So we're just pumping out as many of these, uh, little titanium spacers as possible. And they're going great now, like super great. And then yesterday morning I came in and I came in at nine o'clock and he was in a little bit before that. And he was literally, he had the lathe on dialed in home and he was hitting cycle start for the first time as I walked in. And I was like, whoa, like I've never trained anybody else on the lathe this much, you know? And I'm like, this is great. Yeah.
00:35:57
Speaker
So yeah, I'm super, super happy we made that, that, you know, quote unquote purchase to hire him. He knows fusion. That's our, that's not a big deal. He does not, he does not know fusion. He knows solid edge, I think. Yeah.
00:36:12
Speaker
Sure, a lot of little things to learn, but I would think you could teach somebody a couple of the... Absolutely. Yeah, and we will. That's a cool thing, right? That's incredible. So how are you... Well, we're dealing with... We can maybe save this for next week, but we're trying to move our shop from Fusion 360 personal accounts over to what's called a team hub. I'll save it for next week, but it may be relevant to you if you haven't heard about it.
00:36:42
Speaker
but also go away. So this is insane. So he's, he's just, it's just working. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. I have zero, I have zero bad things to say about the relationship so far. Um, which is great. Um, how did you find him again? Are you sharing, are you willing to share that?
00:36:58
Speaker
Yeah. Um, so I've known him for 10 years from our Volvo car forum days. Okay. And you know, he was, he was just a screen name, but I'm like, wow, this guy's cool. He likes cars. He likes, no, he was just a screen name unbeknownst to John Crimson, a capable full bodied person behind that screen name.
00:37:17
Speaker
Exactly. But he was local. No, this is when I was living on the West Coast. And he was here in the Toronto area. And then eventually, Meg and I moved out here. And then eventually, I came across him on Instagram a couple of years ago. And I'm like, wait, are you that guy from TurboBricks? Which was the Volvo Forum. And I'm like, you are. And then we started chatting. And we've sort of been chatting for the past few years. And then we saw each other at the CMTS trade show.
00:37:47
Speaker
bumped into each other and, uh, and he's like, Hey, I'm thinking about leaving aerospace. And I jokingly said, you should come work for us. And then I was joking, but he took it seriously. And then a couple months later, he's working here. I'm serious, right? Isn't that funny? That's just how like, yeah, it was awesome. So, okay. The other thing I wanted to mention was, uh, about lifestyle creep and preparatory purchase. So I couldn't sleep the other night and I literally laid in bed for seven hours and did,
00:38:17
Speaker
thought a lot, emailed a bunch, did a bunch of research on my phone, et cetera.
00:38:23
Speaker
So I'm like, OK, we got a huge, gigantic year ahead of us. Maybe now is the time to start thinking about a bigger shop, just preparatory. It's better to do it when you don't need it than like, oh, my gosh, I need it right now. Let's take whatever comes up. So I'm like, OK, so I emailed my real estate guy, and I met with him yesterday, which was really helpful, because I got to truly understand
00:38:49
Speaker
the cost of these units and the cost per square foot and the TMI payments on top of that and all this other stuff and what's out there and we walk to a unit next door and he's like okay so this section right here is 4,000 square feet of warehouse and this whole thing is 8,000. I'm like okay that's what I needed to see like I need to visually see how big each one is.
00:39:11
Speaker
And 4,000 square feet of warehouse plus a bunch of offices would be about perfect. 8,000 would be spacious. And you said you're at about 10,000, right? The machine shop is, it's been a while. The machine shop here, I think, is 4,500. The fab side is 3,500. And the office is 25. And that should sum up to 10.
00:39:31
Speaker
Okay. So yeah, I mean, if I had your size shop without the fab side. Oh, that's huge. Huge. We're very cozy. And it's nice. It's nice to be cozy. But we don't there's we have a lot of as much as we filling in space, we're not forcing ourselves to be efficient right now.
00:39:52
Speaker
Right. Well, I remember when you moved from your last place, which is like 1,000 square feet, and you moved into 10,000, and you're like, well, all of our stuff fits in this corner. But then over a couple of years, you moved there, right? But that's the benefit of Sainsville, Ohio, is real estate here is relatively actually very inexpensive. You're not living in most, frankly, of the, we've been talking about real estate some on our WhatsApp chat with other people that live in these markets where real estate is a big deal.
00:40:19
Speaker
I keep me posted. This is a topic that I actually am pretty in the know on industrial real estate and lease rates and what you'll be able to get and what you should expect and making sure you don't get taken on a lease deal and the term and structure, so forth. But yeah, I think you're smart to understand that. I think it's also
00:40:40
Speaker
It's a little bit easier with the machine in factories than it is with office space, but seeing an empty room is very, very difficult to often understand the layout and how it's going to work. It's certainly helpful to just start with a visual because we're in a thousand right now. I'm like, I don't even know what 8,000 feels like. I just need to step into a space and like, what does this actually mean?
00:41:02
Speaker
But things like, it gets stressful. Like if you saw the Mari tool video, like they've got two different machines with bar feeders, which you need to basically stack them, what would be the right word, you know, back to back against each other so that the bar feeders are plus the machine. That's like a, I don't know, 40 foot long machine or 50 foot long machine or something, which, you know, it doesn't sound like you'll ever be doing parts that require overhead cranes. But the reality is it wouldn't be crazy to think about needing
00:41:31
Speaker
larger parts where you, I don't know, I'm trying to think like, well, here's what I stress about. Like if you have a hundred or 120 pound stack of a pallet with a tombstone with a vice or two vices or three, I mean, Hey, you know, you put three vices on a Matsura pallet with a bunch of parts, you actually have some weight there. Yeah. You can't pick that up. Right. But generally I think your stuff will be small, which makes it easier. Exactly. Um, yeah. One of the shops I looked at does have an overhead crane and I'm like, that's just overkill. Like,
00:42:02
Speaker
you know, if it has it great, but it's not like I'm asking for it. Um, but yeah, so I'm, it's funny cause my wife is like, slow down, take a deep breath, run, you know, walk before you can run, you know, let's see some sustained growth before you just jump to the next step. And I totally agree.
Future Planning and Business Expansion
00:42:18
Speaker
And I'm, you know, I have her voice in the back of my head at all times. Um, but I feel like I need to understand
00:42:25
Speaker
what's out there and what could happen because this could happen this year. It could, it could happen early summer. Um, I don't know yet. I just need to be ready for it. I need to know what, what kind of financial situation I can be in, not just a number pulled out of my head, but I need to know like, okay, it's going to cost me, you know, $5,000 to move the machines. It's going to cost whatever, uh, all this stuff. I need to know, I need to have, you know, 20 grand in cash just to like move and renovate and whatever, and see if the landlord can renovate too. And all this stuff.
00:42:55
Speaker
That's incredibly wise. You're not getting gaga-eyed on some crazies. This is all very prudent. What started this whole thing is there is a unit two minutes from my house that just put up a big sign out front.
00:43:16
Speaker
this is for lease. And I'm like, I know that building cause I bought stickers from the company that just went under who used to live in that building. And I'm like, Oh my goodness. I could walk there. I could bike there. That's that is so freaking close. Like, uh, I think it was 11,000 square feet, but it's not in an industrial park, right? So that could be better because it's less attractive to other people.
00:43:43
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's sort of in a central location, like right off the highway, like you can see the storefront from the highway kind of thing. So there's there's plus and minuses. But I'm, I think I just need to see it. I need to step inside and like, see how it feels because all the closeness of that, like, I'll tell you, almost everybody lives in that time anyway, like our people's time and money are the two big constraints. I'll tell you the I got lucky, like it wasn't planned that my shop is one street over.
00:44:10
Speaker
And that is unbelievably helpful, like running home, less time spent. It just is. The other reason you need to be doing this is that, let's say it takes you a year or two, you need to start seeing what's out there. You need to have the conviction that you are going to buy into the right.
00:44:29
Speaker
place, location, capability. But also, you know, that way, when people know you're looking that maybe when you get the phone call and say, Hey, we heard this, or we're subletting because we're in, we have extra like, or just, you know, you put yourself in the, you got to kind of put yourself in the market there.
00:44:47
Speaker
Yeah, you can find off-market stuff if the right people know. So it's sort of scary to actually start thinking about it right now, as opposed to just being like a distant memory in the back of my head, like, yeah, maybe one day we'll get a new shop. It's starting to feel a lot more real. And one of the things about me is once I allow myself to dive into it,
00:45:10
Speaker
I kind of go all in. It's a reality in my head now, which is good and sometimes bad. You've got to learn to control that a little better. Exactly, yeah. Well, it's the same with our five-axis conversation last weekend. And like, OK, so in a perfect world, I want a five-axis, which needs a new shop. Oh, now I need a new shop. And then all of a sudden, our monthly expenses are double what
00:45:34
Speaker
And we have the growth to sustain that. So it's, it's literally just a numbers game at some point, but we just gotta be super conscious about everything. But Meg is right. You know, let's get six months or something under your belt and get more conviction about where you're at and, um, get smart so that you could act more quickly if you need to. But, uh, right. Um, it's fun to get drunk figuratively. So on this idea and this fun thing, and then you kind of sleep on it. Then you wake, okay, I'm smarter. I know more back to the grindstone and, uh, so forth.
00:46:04
Speaker
Now I have the information I need to run towards it, not just have this fictional want in my head. Exactly. It's one thing to overextend yourself buying a five-axis machine. That's not good. The far worse is when you did it and realized it wasn't the right machine.
00:46:21
Speaker
That's a game, that's a game over, you know, or when you don't like what was on Instagram, somebody showed this, like 10, it's only to quote Rob Lockwood, it's only three axis, which what can you even do with three axis? But it's like a catamara super high speed BT 30 horizontal with integrated 10 pallet pool for like 140 grand. Now, if I think it's, I think the price is a bit higher when you get options, but
00:46:50
Speaker
I think it was like 170 without the pallet pool. Okay, there you go. That makes a lot more sense. Sorry. I didn't mean to paint that, but still. I saw that one. It's still a great looking machine. MyCenter H250 or something. Pretty small work envelope, but for you, super fast IRP and spindle,
00:47:08
Speaker
horizontal. I don't know if it had a proper, what would it be an A or B on the. Asymptomatic. That's right. Or even angular position versus just rotating. Anyway, I didn't know that machine existed. And that's insane. Like those things are, that's crazy. Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff out there. Fun. What are you getting into today?
00:47:33
Speaker
So today I gotta go home, take the kids to the doctor, which would be so much easier if I only live two minutes away.
00:47:41
Speaker
Um, and then we're coming back and making more parts on the lathe. Okay. So, you know, my, my Norseman fixture that I've been like creating for the past four months, I finally, I finally applied the last thing to the side of the fixture and I laid in bed the other night and I'm like, Oh my gosh, it's done. Like that's the last thing. It's perfect now. And now I can make more.
00:48:04
Speaker
It's just so it's like, okay, you, you now have Angela working for you and that fixture is done, which is, which is more of a mental hurdle because now you've got that recipe down more than it is the actual piece of aluminum that's done. That's insane. Good for you. It's awesome. Yep. So it's great. And, uh, I need another three axis machine. Yeah, you do.
00:48:25
Speaker
It doesn't have to be crazy, but it has to be something, because we don't have time on this machine, which is great. It's a great problem to have. And there's still some scheduling things that we can maximize, and we will. But still, this year is going to be a big year. Well, the incremental cost to move a small machine isn't that much. So I would think you're going to be better off cramming a little tiny robo drill or something into your shop. I agree. Rather than trying to wait.
00:48:55
Speaker
Yeah. Cause we need the capability now or we can use it. Um, especially if it doesn't cost us, you know, a ton of money. Um, then, then we, then I can make fixtures and I can make clamps and I can make things while the Maury is producing main parts. So it's on my mind. Good. Awesome.
00:49:15
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I was supposed to be, I had immediately got canceled because of the snow and then I was supposed to have mid tutorial here, but that got canceled because of the snow, which is funny because life goes on. The mid tutorial, the mid tutorial guy actually had to drive two hours. That's legit. So I'm going to go film.
00:49:33
Speaker
Oh, and then we're doing this new method viewer idea, so full credit to them on how to actually scientifically set the Gibbs and Angular contact bearing preload on the Tormach to like, that's one of the things I love is that Tormach, you know, generally, broadly speaking, has a much more green user base. And so there's less knowledge about this, frankly, myself included. And so we're trying to put together this video, we will put together this video showing
00:50:01
Speaker
some relatively basic machine tool building techniques that help you understand the maintenance because you understand, I find most people that are machinists are able to do something better when they understand how it works.
00:50:13
Speaker
And so we have a really cool idea that involves fishing line, I'll leave it at that, on a way to set the Gibbs correctly. And that is a huge thing when it comes to rigidity, chatter, tool life, surface finishes, people who think the machine can't do something when in reality, it just needs that little bit of tweaking.
00:50:35
Speaker
Yeah, because I remember adjusting the Gibbs on my 1100 and it's like, tighten them, rocket side to side, wrap it back and forth. If it doesn't bind up, we're good to go. Which is terrible. Yeah, exactly. That's how I've done it. I mean, it's terrible. Yeah, so that's what I'm working on. And then I got a Maury and don't have to think about it anymore. Right, which is also a great thing. Yes.
00:50:57
Speaker
Cool. Anyway, we wrap up. Good talk. Crush it, bud. I can't wait to see. So this cool. I'm jealous of Angela. That's awesome. Yeah, it's cool. Take care. All right.