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What You Get Wrong About Bisexuality. (1-12)
73 Plays8 months ago
In this enlightening episode of "Fun With Sex," we tackle the many misconceptions surrounding bisexuality. Join us as we delve into the true meaning of the word "bi," exploring the fluid and inclusive nature of bisexuality as a spectrum, rather than a fixed point.
We discuss the common struggle among bisexual individuals to feel "bi enough," and how societal pressures and stereotypes can lead to feelings of invalidation. Bisexuality often remains invisible in a world that tends to see sexuality in binary terms, leading to unique challenges for those who identify as bi.
Our conversation also covers the discrimination bisexual people face from both straight and gay communities. We examine how biphobia manifests in various forms, from outright hostility to more subtle forms of exclusion and erasure.
With expert insights and personal stories, this episode sheds light on the rich, diverse experiences of bisexual individuals. Tune in to "Fun With Sex" for a deeper understanding of bisexuality and join us in breaking down the barriers to acceptance and visibility. Whether you're bisexual, questioning, or simply eager to learn, this episode is essential listening for anyone interested in the nuances of human sexuality.
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Transcript
Introduction to Bisexuality and Pride Month
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, this is the Fun with Sex podcast and for the next three to four weeks, we're going to be talking solely about bisexuality. And I think that's very fitting because this is Pride Month and this demographic and this conversation is probably the most under talked about part of the LGBTQ community is bisexual people and debunking milks about them.
Hosts' Personal and Factual Insights
00:00:25
Speaker
I know last week we did the episode about our straight man attracted to women, but for the rest of pride, it's only for the gays, or at this time, only for the bi's. So I guess I started off the question. Oh, first before that, me and Natalie both identify as bi. So this conversation, while rooted in science and fact, is also deeply personal to both of us.
Misconceptions About Bisexuality
00:00:48
Speaker
So to start this off, there's a lot of misconception about the word bisexual.
00:00:53
Speaker
What does bi mean to you? To me, bisexual, if you actually look at the origins of the word, it meant bi. I was an English major, so I'm into linguistics, but it means bi as in your own gender and another gender.
00:01:14
Speaker
or any other gender. So there's a lot of misconceptions that the word bisexuality is rooted in the binary and that bisexuality means you only believe in two genders, only are attracted to two genders. But when you look back at the origins of the word, that's not what it was intended for. And historically, many different bi people
00:01:43
Speaker
are attracted to multiple genders besides just the binary of male and female.
Understanding Bisexual, Pansexual, and Omnisexual Orientations
00:01:49
Speaker
So for me, as somebody, I'm attracted to all genders. It just means I'm attracted to my own gender and other genders. Yeah, and doubly down on that, historically, when the word was created and through the early usages of the word,
00:02:04
Speaker
bi always meant same and different or same and other it didn't mean men and women and I want to touch on that a little bit deeper because there's a misconception that even if it wasn't a binary that it would be trans exclusive but if you genuinely believe that trans men and trans women are men and women
00:02:24
Speaker
Then they should exist inside the binary what I will say that it becomes exclusive to gender non-conforming people Uh non-binary people gender fluid people But even at that bisexual has never meant Man and woman it has always meant same and different which is what I want to get you to the next question is like What do you think the difference between bi pan and omni? I think my
00:02:51
Speaker
You know, you mean to define those words? Well, I mean, I have something to say. I think there's a lot of miscommunication both inside and outside of the community of what it means. And I'm not saying that's a problem because the thing with identities and labels is it's whatever's empowering to you and whatever you believe in. But yeah, you can go into your definitions. So like from my understanding of like how people define these terms is that
00:03:21
Speaker
Pan means that you're attracted to people and gender doesn't matter. Omni means that you're attracted to people of all gender, but gender does depend. Gender does matter on how you're attracted to them.
Diversity Within Bisexuality
00:03:38
Speaker
I think that while categories are really, really good, I think once you start dividing subcategories too much, you start losing a sense of community.
00:03:48
Speaker
Kind of like the idea of just like bite and also like pen resonates with you or Omni resonates with you go for it I'm not telling you to not identify as that, but I like the idea of like bisexuality just meaning multi-gender attraction and however you Respond or experience multi-gender attraction whether that's like hey
00:04:11
Speaker
the gender does matter to me. I'm just attracted to all genders or like, Hey, gender doesn't matter to me at all. Or I prefer one gender over the other. All of that is fine. But I do believe that there's an importance in saying that like, Hey, we all rally around the idea that we're attracted. Yeah, I think it just gets confusing because a lot of people, you know, they'll say, Oh, I'm pansexual because I'm attracted to non binary people too. And it's like, well,
00:04:39
Speaker
Yeah, you can be bi and attracted to non-binary people. So I think there's just a lot of like miscommunication. And I think that's the issue is that like people don't know what bisexuality means because if they knew that like bisexuality meant, if they knew that bisexuality meant same and different than those realize how ignorant it is to say that like non-binary people don't fall into the bisexuality attraction.
00:05:07
Speaker
And like, that's not me saying that like all bisexual people are attracted to non-binary people because like, there's God knows millions, hundreds of millions of bi people on the planet. There's going to be some who have different preferences for others. But in general, the word bisexual means inclusive of basically anyone who you can be sexually attracted to. That's what like I kinda, I view attraction as multi-gendered attraction, whatever that may look like.
00:05:35
Speaker
and same gendered attraction or not being attracted to people in general. And I think that like those three easy categories is a way to conceive of attraction without limiting people by putting them in like specific cans.
Complexity of Asexuality
00:05:48
Speaker
I'm either attracted to the same gender or I'm either attracted to one gender mono gender attraction. I'm either multigendered attraction or I'm agender. I'm not attracted to agender at all. Yeah.
00:06:01
Speaker
And of course, like when you talk about asexuality, there's degrees of attraction. There's some people who are like completely done with like being completely not attracted to people at all. There's people closer to like, under certain circumstances, they feel attraction, but that's asexuality can be an entire podcast by itself. Oh yeah, totally. So my question to you is that if somebody asks you, Hey, I believe I'm bisexual, but
00:06:29
Speaker
I'm attracted to more one gender or one type of expression of gender more than the other.
Affirming Bisexual Identity
00:06:36
Speaker
How would you have that conversation with them? I mean, I would validate them and tell them, no matter what your spectrum is of the genders you're attracted to, even if you have a very strong preference,
00:06:51
Speaker
for one gender, you still are validated in being bisexual. Because what happens if you just happen to marry this one person of your gender that you're attracted to? You live the rest of your life presenting in a lesbian relationship then. So is that person not validated? Are they not supposed to join the community even though they're in a queer relationship?
00:07:19
Speaker
I understand it gets a little bit different when people, they are attracted to the same gender, however, they don't really join the community or try to do research or try to educate themselves or explore that. But again, I think if you feel you're bisexual, you're validated to say that.
00:07:44
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say that at first I was starting to disagree with you until the last bit. Even if you're not a member of the queer community, which multiple studies have shown, when bi people have joined queer communities, the rate of suicide goes down, the rate of depression goes down. Basically, all good metrics of mental health goes up. But at the end of the day, if you feel that you're attracted to multiple genders,
00:08:06
Speaker
You're bisexual because like there is idea that like people aren't bisexual enough. You haven't had enough sexual partners. You haven't won on enough dates. You haven't kissed enough people. You don't have to validate your bisexuality to anybody but yourself. If you're like, hey, I'm attracted to multiple people.
00:08:26
Speaker
no matter what that may look like, but I find these different gender expressions attracted, attractable, you're a multi-gender attraction person, you're bisexual.
Stereotypes and Struggles of Bisexual Women
00:08:36
Speaker
And I think that you belong to like, you're able to have that identity. And I think with this answer, it's also a super nuanced answer because, you know, you can't negate the fact that there are people who are bisexual and are actively harmful to the queer community.
00:08:56
Speaker
Um, but I mean, that's just intersectionality. Like there are gay men who are harmful to women in the community and things like that. But I think like as a femme bi woman, you know, I always, I, I'm very proud of who I am and I'm not one of those bi women where I feel the need to like self-deprecate to feel some sort of like validation or acceptance.
00:09:21
Speaker
But, you know, there is definitely a pattern with women who are femme bi women who are traditionally in straight presenting relationships with straight men. And like they may be attracted to women, but a lot of it for them is kind of, you know, the validation of being like hypersexual and they don't really see it like dating a woman as something they would actually do.
00:09:50
Speaker
So ironically, or coincidentally, while you're talking about this, Bridget, I forgot her last name, Bridget Z is on trial right now in Florida, the co-founder of Moms for Liberty, one of the biggest homophobic groups in America. And in court, she's in trial right now with her husband.
00:10:08
Speaker
because her husband sexually assaulted another woman during the threesome. And it was revealed in court that Bridget herself is actually queer. She's a bi woman. So while she's pushing like massive, a national movement to hate and to harm queer people, she's a queer person. But like, again, people of every community hurt their own communities. There's a lot of gay men who are like very internalized, homophobic.
00:10:35
Speaker
and they commit violence against other gay men. There's, I forgot her name, there's a trans woman influencer who like talks about anti, or like talks about anti-trans policies and hurt other trans women. I do understand what you're saying though, that there seems to be a larger percentage of bisexual people who like either don't actively support their community or they like ignore issues that goes on. Like I don't think they're like,
00:11:04
Speaker
that makes you any less biased person. It makes you a city person. Yes. Yeah. That's what I should say is just because this pattern exists and it's something to acknowledge. It doesn't mean that if you're somebody where you're genuinely like, yeah, I'm a bi woman, but I present very femme. I'm dating a man. I'm not, I'm like 80% more into men than women. That doesn't mean that you need to like hide that and be like,
00:11:34
Speaker
Oh, I'm not validating enough to identify as bi or go into queer spaces or stuff like
Relevance of the Kinsey Scale
00:11:39
Speaker
that. Yeah. And we can touch on this on the episode about being bi and dating. I also don't think that you're required to have to want to date a gender to be bi. I don't think you have to be required to want to sleep with a gender. I think as long as you feel attracted to multiple genders, you identify as bi. But getting back to what I wanted to talk about in this episode is that
00:12:00
Speaker
Bisexuality for a lot of people is a spectrum for how how much of they're attracted to different genders There's a common tool to use to gauge people's bisexuality or sexuality in general called the Kenzie scale Are you familiar with that? Yes
00:12:16
Speaker
So basically the Kinsey Scale is a scale from zero to six. Zero means exclusively straight. Six means exclusively gay or exclusively same gender attraction versus exclusively opposite, different gender attraction. And everything from one to five on the Kinsey Scale is considered bisexuality. Whereas one is like, hey, I find men sexually attractive. I don't know if like I would date another man.
00:12:45
Speaker
But like, I don't know if I'll have sex with another man, but I do find them attractive. But besides that, I'm almost, I'm like 90% straight versus like five would be, Hey, I'm like 90% gay. I find women attractive. I don't know if I would date or have sex with another women, but like, I know I do find them attractive. And then like, as everything moves inside until you get to the middle number of, I think it's three.
00:13:12
Speaker
either three or four is like 100% three. Three is like, I find men and women both equally attractive. I think a criticism of the Kinsey skill is that a lot of people say that the more I find men attractive, uh, doesn't mean the less I find women attractive. And I think that's a fair criticism, but I do think that for like a lot of newer people, the Kinsey scale helps them understand that sexuality is, is a spectrum that bisexuality is a spectrum and that
00:13:42
Speaker
they can be a one or a five on the Kinsey scale and still identify as bi. Even though there was like some people were like, I understand the criticism that you could be really, really intimate, really, really into woman, really, really into non-binary people. And it's like, well, where does that put me in the Kinsey scale? I would argue it puts you as a three, but like some people don't feel seen by that. Yeah. And that's why I think like with all identities in the community, um,
00:14:10
Speaker
there just needs to be more of a push to acknowledge that it is a spectrum because I think people kind of view it as like hard lines and that keeps them from like coming out and identifying as things. I mean like we can talk about this more in like a later episode.
Fluidity in Sexual Identity
00:14:29
Speaker
But there is like a lot of research that says when you ask people how do they identify, a lot of people identify in like very hard categories.
00:14:36
Speaker
And then you ask them about their behavior. Have you ever done something that like doesn't fit your gender identity? So if you're a straight person, have you ever had a same gender kiss or sexual interaction? Or if you're a gay person, have you ever had a different gender
00:14:53
Speaker
sexual interaction and then like the percentage of people go up and then you ask them about like attraction the percentage of people go up and then you ask them about like Fantasies and then the percentage of people go up. So there's a lot of people who identify as either 100% straight or gay who's had a
00:15:12
Speaker
bisexual fantasies, bisexual behavior, or bisexual attraction. But because identity is such a important thing for the person, they don't identify as bisexual. Yeah. And I think that's like the thing that like we're trying to get at with this section is that attraction for most people is fluid.
Evolutionary Perspective on Bisexuality
00:15:31
Speaker
Again, like we have an episode coming up called the science of bisexuality where basically I put together or argue a theory that Bisexual multi-gender attraction is like the evolution scenario most natural attraction type so there's a lot of people who identify as straight and who identify as gay who are probably bi and there's also like a
00:15:55
Speaker
a lot of bi people where their attraction to different gender moves throughout their life. We were just talking to somebody last night and he came in and he was like, Hey guys, um, I thought I was like really bi, but I'm feeling a little bit less attraction to men now. Am I straight? And it's like, no, you're not, you're still bi.
00:16:14
Speaker
your sexuality changes and like you can also change categories. Like if you get to a point where you're like, Hey, I'm really, really like 100%. I believe I'm straight or I'm gay. That's perfectly fine too. Attraction changes. Yeah, totally. And I think that gives us to like a big by myth is the idea that bisexuality is just a stepping stone for gayness or on the road to gay. And I think that's like a myth that pertains to men more than women. I think women suffer from the opposite.
00:16:43
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think it's definitely still a thing in the queer community for women too, where it's kind of like, I think for a lot of people, it's very scary to come out as gay. So it's a lot easier to come out as bisexual. So it's, yeah, it is a common thing that people come out as bisexual and then come out as gay, but it doesn't mean
00:17:08
Speaker
that there aren't many, many people who are truly just bisexual. Not to mention the majority of the queer community is bisexual. I mean, you wouldn't know that because I think only 27% of bi people are public about their identity. But the majority, when you survey the queer community, most people are attracted to more than one gender. And going into the point of
00:17:32
Speaker
People who are gay who formally identify as bi, they also formally identify as straight. And we don't use that argument that like, well, identifying as straight first means that you're like slowly going to identify as bi or then slowly identify as gay. It's hard in the heteronormative society to come out and just say that like, I'm exclusively attracted to people of the same gender.
00:17:54
Speaker
So yeah, a lot of people are going to have a stepping stone or coming out as bi, but also these same people lived a long life as straight.
Legitimacy of Bisexuality
00:18:02
Speaker
And we don't use that as a knock against you straight people actually as is because there are straight people who became bi or became queer later in life. Yeah. I don't know if that argument made sense. Yeah, it did. Okay.
00:18:15
Speaker
I was going to say for women, you can probably talk on this one, the idea that bi women are a lot of times secretly straight women who just want attention or just something else. Yeah, that definitely is a very big thing, especially in the queer community. There's definitely this level of
00:18:37
Speaker
having to prove yourself because there are a lot of like misconceptions like, oh, don't date a bi girl. She's just going to leave you for a man. Don't date a bi girl. Like you're just her experiment or whatever. And while there are like instances where that happens, yes, that's true. But perpetuating those stereotypes only harms people in your community and harms bi people.
00:19:07
Speaker
Not to mention like you can find stories of women leaving women for other women. You can find stories of women leaving their man partner for other men. But for some reason that you can find stories of women leaving their man partner for women. But for some reason there's only the stigma associated to buy women. Yeah. When like a bi woman leaves a woman for like
00:19:30
Speaker
a male, a man presenting partner, a man, which like, I understand the frustration of being like a lesbian and already being part of a marginalized community. And then like being left for somebody who's part of a community that are processing you, like, that's a completely valid frustration. But like, I don't think that that's an argument that should be used against invalidability, invalidated ability, validity, validity, that shouldn't be an argument used against invalidity of
00:19:56
Speaker
by people, by women. I still feel like I said that word wrong, but we can move on. Yeah. Okay. Do you want to keep going or do you mean just like keep ranting? What's the next question?
Impact of Societal Norms on Bisexual Identity
00:20:07
Speaker
So like basically what I want to talk about is that the idea of heteronormativity and how that impacts by people and the idea that the reason why only 27% of by people are out is also because there's a idea that a lot of by people
00:20:24
Speaker
go their entire lives with like this deep repression because they don't know that they're bi or they don't want to admit to themselves that they're bi it's the same reason i like a lot of gay people go their entire lives with like
00:20:35
Speaker
deep repression about their queerness. I mean, I know someone who said that they identified as asexual for a long time because they just couldn't conceive of themselves being attracted to the same gender. And once they were like, no, I'm not asexual, I'm just attracted to other men, it clicked for them that they were gay. And I think that when you can be attracted to the opposite gender, when you can go through your entire life without the stigma,
00:21:02
Speaker
the shame, the social consequences that comes with being queer and you could be in a hetero presenting relationship. It's really hard to not just like follow that stream of straightness down the river and just identify a straight your entire life. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's kind of the reason why you see so many bi people kind of not realizing it or not coming out until later in life is
00:21:32
Speaker
It's really easy to deny that side of you when you're able to date and marry the opposite gender. And when you combine that with the fact that like acceptance of queer people has grown exponentially, that's why you are finding a lot of, like I can at least speak for women right now because it's a little bit more accepted to be a bi woman than a bi man where, you know, they're like in their late 20s or 30s and they're married and they're like,
00:22:01
Speaker
Oh my God, I'm queer. I mean, that's something that we've realized. If you've listened to our earlier podcast episodes, you also know that we're in a non-monogamous relationship and go into spaces, frequent spaces where there's a lot of queer people who are also non-monogamous. And that's a common thing that happens is that like,
00:22:22
Speaker
There's a lot of women who are like, hey, I didn't realize that I was queer until later in life. And there's a lot of men who don't identify as queer. But when they find out that I'm a bi man, they're like, oh, but I want to experiment with same gendered activities. Because again, that stream of straightness just pushes you to live every single day as a straight person because it's easy. I mean, the way that I describe this stream of straightness as someone
00:22:46
Speaker
Let me say this, a TikTok creator described this on a video and I'm copying her work. But imagine you're a fish, right? It's easy to swim with stream as a fish. It's easy to swim down a stream of heteronormativity. Being by and living your life as a queer person or even living your life more gay presenting is you're going to have to swim against the stream, which is a lot harder. Even in my personal experience is that
00:23:15
Speaker
I'm a bi man who, I'll say like 80, 20, if I have to give myself percentage wise, strive to women a lot more than I'm attracted to men. I didn't realize that like I was bi until I got into a relationship with Natalie. Um, I didn't like have like my first experiences until like I got in a relationship with Natalie. And I think that like, if I had a partner who wasn't accepting and validated my identity, there's a good chance of like, I would still be just swimming down that stream of repression and like straightness.
00:23:45
Speaker
Yeah.
Conclusion and Future Focus
00:23:47
Speaker
I mean, I feel like that's a good way to end the podcast if you have nothing else that you want to add to it. Yeah, I think so. All right, cool. Thank you for listening to the Fun with Sex podcast. For the next month, we'll be talking about bisexuality.