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Hero- 2 Lies and 1 Truth
14 Plays7 days ago
Is this one of the most beautifully designed movies ever made? Certain corners of the internet really seem to think so. It's definitely a contender at the very least. We marvel at the mastery and try to stay in our cultural lane as viewers and fans. Come with us on this larger than life tale with a questionable conclusion.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0299977/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_6_tt_7_nm_1_in_0_q_hero
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_in_Chinese_culture
https://web.archive.org/web/20090830032752/https://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/15/movies/film-cracking-the-color-code-of-hero.html
Music: Cassette Deck by Basketcase
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Hot Set' Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm Melinda. I'm Ariel. This is Hot Set, the movie podcast about costume design.
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode with us, your your your costume friends. i would say besties, but maybe that's a little bit audacious. little We are two lurkers who love costumes and welcome you to listen to us talk about how much we love costumes.
Exploring International Films and Cultural Understanding
00:00:39
Speaker
We're going to try something kind of new this season, which is talking about more international film. And so that is going to require a little bit more research from us here and there to try to find cultural touchstones and, you know, a little bit more cultural understanding beyond just aesthetic.
00:00:56
Speaker
Um, so that we can talk about things without sounding totally like dumb asses. And we promise nothing, but ah we're just basically trying not to be disrespectful and fully ignorant. And, you know, the bar is, is low. but like Yeah. I feel like the, the goal is just like to,
00:01:21
Speaker
and Obviously, you know, there's ah a limitation on how much we can learn in like the short amount of time that we are focusing on each movie. So it's more just like enough to know when to be quiet about certain things. Because like we spend a lot of time waxing raphapsodic waxing rhapsodic, whatever the phrase is about you know like color palettes, which is something that's going to be massive in this movie, and like silhouette. Those are things that we always spend a lot of time talking about.
Introducing 'Hero': Impact and Choreography
00:01:50
Speaker
um But when it's a different cultural background with a long, long history of certain garments and color meanings, etc., There's only so much that we can learn like in a hot second. And so we're going to do our best. We might be a little bit wrong. Let us know. um Nothing that we say here is hard and fast.
00:02:09
Speaker
But we are definitely coming at talking about this from an amazing ah perspective. ah Yeah, yes. The fan. It's the fan perspective. um Yeah, obviously, like, yeah, we can speak to how things like hit us aesthetically.
00:02:26
Speaker
But there's obviously going to be stuff that is going to go over our head even after trying to learn a bit. And so, you know, we recognize that.
00:02:39
Speaker
we're we're we can only approach it from a certain angle and we like leave the rest to people who actually are like educated on the topic. And all that said, this movie that we're talking about today Yimou Zhang's Hero from 2002 that I believe came over to the States in 2004.
00:02:57
Speaker
It was like acquired for distribution and then released here, I think, in 2004, which means the junior year of high school? Yeah, I think so. yeah that's not right.
00:03:08
Speaker
Like a very exciting time because Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon had come over and just like seeing this this new exposure to like a
Color Symbolism and Choreography in 'Hero'
00:03:17
Speaker
martial arts style. I was into it because i thought it was like kind of like watching ballet. Like it's watching really skilled dancers is what watching like certain martial arts is like. And this style is so like watching human beings become wind or water.
00:03:33
Speaker
Absolutely. And the costumes in this movie are so chef kiss flowy. And just like, I can't even. Yeah, it's like unreal the way they are gonna like the way they behave the way they move is like, insane, beautiful to look at.
00:03:53
Speaker
And this this movie had a big, big impact on me because Lord of the Rings had come out 2001. And that was like such a in the face for me of like mass costuming and, you know, just really, really loving those costumes. But then this, it's like fantasy because it's a historical epic.
00:04:11
Speaker
But it's... um the The director and cinematographer, Soyi Mujang and Christopher Doyle, basically refer to this as their Rashomon, which is a Japanese movie that kind of started the style of storytelling, where there's a narrator and multiple stories told from different narrators that each color their version of the story. So it's shown to you slightly different each time.
00:04:36
Speaker
And that's the whole premise of this one, but with like associated color palette. Yeah, like we're using color in a couple different, you know, it meanings of the word here. It's it's so beautiful.
00:04:49
Speaker
And then on top of that, like some of the little bit of research I tried to do, which was very quick for me. and So none of my professors or teachers throughout my education would support this. But Wikipedia to the rescue, maybe question Thank you, Wikipedia. Yeah.
00:05:05
Speaker
I did look at like there was somebody on Reddit who talked about this and there was little bit of conversation. the same thing. So I went to Wikipedia because I was like, let's I don't know.
00:05:16
Speaker
But um yeah, was like random person on Reddit. OK, I don't know. it's interesting to read but it's like wikipedia it's also a random person who's putting this in there and maybe citing their sources so from wikipedia um regarding colors uh traditionally so like this movie takes place during the chin like era when like the formation of formation of china yeah and um and so back then there were a lot of different
00:05:49
Speaker
Maybe not different, but there were like definitely color associations from even back then. yeah And it seems like Yimuzhang really really like went with those as well as like maybe modern understanding, like um not understanding, modern interpretations of color meanings. Yeah, I feel like there was some playfulness with, yeah like, there was there was, like, things that seemed like it lined up with what I was reading and then other things where I was, like, I feel like he's taking it in a different direction here.
00:06:22
Speaker
But it's, like, the use of colors was very interesting.
Narrative Analysis: Multiple Perspectives and Truth
00:06:26
Speaker
and So reading about it was also very interesting because, tradition like, according to Wikipedia, so there's a quote and before and after this, traditionally the standard colors in Chinese chinese culture are black, red, indigo, white, and yellow.
00:06:37
Speaker
respectively these correspond to water fire wood metal and earth which compromise the five elements whooshing of traditional chinese metaphysics throughout the shang tang jo and chin dynasties i apologize for my pronunciation chinese or china's emperors used the theory of the five elements to select colors other colors were considered by confucius to be inferior and yellow is listed as beautiful and prestigious and is esteemed in buddhism the blue might symbolize harmony.
00:07:09
Speaker
And there was a note about old Chinese, not making a blue green distinction, but having a single verdant color. One, one thing and in india yeah like art and yeah. And i think that's Ching.
00:07:25
Speaker
is associated with health, prosperity, and harmony. And it was used for roof tiles and ornate the and and ornate interior of the temple of heaven and in other structures to represent heaven. And was also a color of most jade as well as greenware pottery that was developed to imitate it.
00:07:43
Speaker
So it's like a lot of these colors kind of come from like a an ancient, you know, use and understanding. Yeah, like it. Yeah, it makes sense. But then it can deviate. Right, right. Like, it's it's like way that they're, it makes sense of like colors that you could develop with. Yeah.
00:08:02
Speaker
minerals or plant like it like dyes a paint like ink like it seems it makes sense the collections the palettes together it's it's really cool that you can kind of try to pull like an interpretive meaning from some of it while also just appreciating how beautiful it all looks yeah is like like the listed standard colors in chinese culture black red indigo white and yellow when we're in the It's not imperial yet, but when we're in the king's palace, yeah like all of the black everywhere. Everything's black. and
00:08:35
Speaker
And indigo. And then there's like hints of red. Massive amount of soldiers have these like red accent and like they have like red like silk flags at one point. But everything they're wearing is black other than that.
00:08:50
Speaker
And there's like in the palace, there's like red scrolls. Yeah. You know, there's just like very specific colors in each area. And thought it was very interesting that Nameless, played by Jet was in black.
00:09:07
Speaker
And like, so the first telling of the story. Yeah. Yeah. okay so Okay. So the movie it involves like were being told the same story multiple times from like, maybe this is what happened. Maybe this is what happened. But the actual story itself is pretty simple. hmm.
00:09:30
Speaker
um So yeah, Jet Li's character is, he's come to the king to be like, I killed these assassins that wished to, like, do you harm.
00:09:43
Speaker
And so he's being rewarded and like the king wants to hear about how it happened. You know, so Jet Li like- Tell how you are so incredible to have like destroyed these three famed legendary Yeah, like you're someone who I've never heard of. How could you have killed all of these people that are extremely skilled at fighting? Like, how could you have done it?
00:10:04
Speaker
And, you know, Jet lee tells his story of how he like defeated these three people. And um then we're like offered, you know, the king is like, well, I actually don't believe any of that.
00:10:21
Speaker
and then like, the i believe that you were there and that they were there. Right. Like certain facts can be corroborated because other people saw things like happen. But I don't believe your story at all. You're a liar. And then the king offers his version of what he thinks happened.
00:10:39
Speaker
And then we see like The third version, which it seems to to me, I interpreted that version as being the most
Themes of Unity and Freedom in 'Hero'
00:10:48
Speaker
truthful. Yeah, because like the first one the first one, the way I took it is that Nameless is telling the story that's basically the most ideal for what he thinks this king would want to hear. yes So it's tailored for a king who is trying to divide multiple countries into one which makes him himself, nameless, look like he is an agent of empire. So he's dressed in black and he is one strong supporter of empire destroying these legendary warriors by tearing them apart.
00:11:20
Speaker
and overcoming them. So two of them he tears apart with jealousy and then takes them like off. let's Let's one kill the other and then kills the last. They like defeat themselves basically yeah because he's like poisoned their minds. Yeah, and then he like kills the other legendary warrior. And then the second story, which is the one told by the king, is also highly idealized, but it's idealized through his vision of honor And so Nameless is gathering allies who will give him their lives so that he can assassinate the king. And yeah the assassins go willingly, heroically even, to sacrifice in a way that the king can appreciate as like an honorable ideal.
00:12:06
Speaker
And then as he tells the story, like right at the end, he goes up I think I figured out what actually is the truth because he sees like that nameless is hesitating. So he's like, maybe it's a little bit more complex. like And he's like, you're actually the most dangerous one.
00:12:24
Speaker
You're not somebody who had to trick them. You're not somebody who had to act like, you all agreed and like you all wanted the same thing sort of.
00:12:35
Speaker
And then he's like, except it's more complicated where you actually respected each other and you were different. And so that's the more truthful one. At the last minute, the assassin like takes to heart the word of one of the assassins who broken sword, yeah broken sword who was a calligrapher who puts in the sand, our land, which also,
00:12:59
Speaker
Which is like kind of like his like dying declaration yeah kind of how it's presented. and he and Skye have like come apart because he three years before they tried to assassinate the king and Broken Sword was supposed to be the assassin of the king while Skye. Yes.
00:13:16
Speaker
defended him so that he could achieve his goals. oh Snow. ah Sorry, Snow. She feels betrayed by him because at the last minute he doesn't kill the king and then they escape and she turns her back on him basically while not like actively trying to kill him but is like we're done. I'm done with you. yeah doesnt you So it's like very complicated about like human relationships but basically Broken Sword we'll get to how we feel about the the messaging of this. but like Sure we will. Broken Sword feels that he can see what the king is trying to do which is yeah to try to stop all of the suffering that all of these basically freedom fighters
00:13:59
Speaker
And everybody else have been experiencing by fighting and fighting and fighting for independence for independence, where if they all just bend the knee and they come together, there will be no more fighting. right And there's like, it's like Broken Sword has like, i idealized this.
00:14:15
Speaker
And so when he puts it in sand and calligraphy to Nameless and says, I ask you to hear me and says, this is what is in my heart and it is our land. And that's what Nameless takes when he goes to kill the king. And he has told Broken Sword, no, I'm going to kill this man because he his soldiers murdered my family. yeah and I basically lost who I am. My identity, Yeah. to do this.
00:14:40
Speaker
yeah And so he's like, this is all that there is for me. But yeah the end, Nameless also is like, I can see what you are trying to do. And he and the king are having this conversation.
00:14:52
Speaker
And I do think that through storytelling, it's very interesting that Nameless has tailored his first version of the story to who he imagines the king to be, like some sort of blowhard who's like kind of a dumbass. I'm the only smart person. Everyone's like, everyone's stupid and petty and jealous. And that's what, you know, like I'm above all of that. Yeah.
00:15:12
Speaker
And then like Empire would absolutely quell that. So I'm representative of this, yeah but the King is smarter than Nameless gave him credit for and sees through it and gets very close to the truth with his retelling of the story. yeah So by the time they get to the third one, Nameless, I think respects Nameless.
00:15:30
Speaker
the king for seeing through it to the heart of it that they are not black and white enemies that the people he should be looking at as enemies the assassins are actually very complicated people who disagree even amongst themselves yeah but that they could even come to the conclusion that empire would be good and i was like this is crazy like okay the messaging of it is that like yeah it's Becoming one empire is like, worth it, righteous and worth it. And like losing your cultural identity and independence is worth it.
00:16:06
Speaker
subjugated by this one dude is better it's very okay there's a lot there's a lot there and so it's like ah but like if you're taking a step back and just letting this story wash over you it is very beautiful to look at but it it does feel very much like a fable like a fairy tale that has a message for you um so it's like I didn't really take that in very deeply when we were like like 14 15 16 like when it came out I was like I'm I'm just looking at the beautiful pictures or however absolutely absolutely and I think that's what they wanted you to do and so now watching it I was like oh no
00:16:55
Speaker
Well, you know, there's something about being an adult and you know,
Costume Design Philosophy and Techniques
00:16:59
Speaker
having context. More context. And just being like, huh, okay. um And like, this is, our reaction to this is not like solely just this or because it's a Chinese like film. That's not it at all. There are so many films that we see now where we're like, oh, okay. Yeah.
00:17:18
Speaker
I mean, like, if you want to, you know, really, like, I'm gonna really simplify and yeah, in a probably really uncharitable way. But I do feel like it would be like watching the um the newer trilogy of Star Wars movies and being like, actually, the First Order was right.
00:17:38
Speaker
Yeah. And we're gonna join them. Yeah. You know, obviously, it's a little different, but like, but it it is kind of the same. It's a little bit propagandic. Yeah, where it like, actually, unity is more important than these like individual states and cultures and like their way of life. Yeah, something that's asking the question, what is what is the difference between the peace of like harmony and harmony brought together by unification slash subjugation? Is that not also peace?
00:18:09
Speaker
Right. And so it's like, Ooh, what a philosophical conversation. Wowee. And so to get back to the costumes. Right. Oh, yeah. The costumes. Right. These are for such like a heavy story, even though it is very...
00:18:27
Speaker
it is also very light because how it's filmed. And, and it's also this like wha style of like, there's digital stuff happening and like the flying like rings to get these like massive kicks and all these things.
00:18:43
Speaker
um Skip it over the water. be I mean, a wow. These costumes are made, they're designed by our illustrious costume designer,
00:18:56
Speaker
whose name is Emi Wada. And she was born in 1937 in Kyoto, Japan, and passed away in 2021. and apparently, have so many like tabs open right now, but apparently there's like a quote from her where um Okay, so here it is.
00:19:16
Speaker
A quote from a backstage.com article about this. Wada's recent Asian success has apparently been little affected by simmering ill feeling toward Japan in China in china and South Korea where many suffered under Japanese militarism in the early 20th century.
00:19:33
Speaker
And she said, quote, when Hiro became a big international hit, I felt the Chinese people had accepted my costume designs, end quote, Wada said in a fax interview, adding that she had had no difficulty in collaborating with non-Japanese.
00:19:46
Speaker
She said, I work in exactly the same way, whichever country I am in. um And so there was something here where she talked about not feeling like she had to recreate history aha to be like perfectly accurate.
00:20:05
Speaker
um Sticklers for detail have complained about Hollywood's inaccurate portrayal of traditional Japanese attire in memoirs of a geisha. But Wada says recreating history is not her top priority.
00:20:16
Speaker
What the costume must express is character. she Yes. I wouldn't ignore history and tradition completely, but it is a question of conferring with the director to to decide to decide what is most important.
00:20:27
Speaker
And so that's just like a perfect example of like what costume design truly is. You are not tied to perfect historical representation, especially if that is not what the director's goal is right And like that can be really hard. I've definitely bucked against that myself like sometimes.
00:20:50
Speaker
But like the most important thing is that you are telling the story and you're treating the clothing as if it is character. yeah And there's also something here...
00:21:01
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, like, there's, um you know, there's something to be said for doing it and like doing that, taking that choice and not doing it well. Obviously, sometimes that happens. Like, sometimes people change stuff for whatever storytelling a goal they have, and it doesn't really work. Like, that obviously happens.
00:21:22
Speaker
ah We are trying to highlight movies where we feel like it does work. So we're not necessarily talking about those movies where we feel like it didn't come out very well. so And there's there's another quote from this where on one occasion, unable to recreate a rich shade of red for this film using Chinese water, she used up truckloads of mineral water to dye the fabric to the exact color she wanted.
00:21:50
Speaker
Could you imagine? Yeah. Just having the the budget and the ability to be like, this water is chemically not reacting with the dye to do what I want.
00:22:04
Speaker
We need tons and tons and tons because there's so much fabric in this. so There's so much fabric. And... So like you you need so many supplies and so many gallons of water because I don't know if listener you are familiar with dyeing.
00:22:20
Speaker
You exhaust your dye. The more fabric you put in there, the less dye comes out. yes And so like you you will run out even though the water still looks red. There is no longer the chemical ability to bond with the textile. It's not potent anymore. Yeah.
00:22:37
Speaker
yeah And so like I can imagine having like vat after vat after vat after vat of just like massive yardages of dye and water. Amazing. And also just to be in an environment where people are like, oh, yes, I recognize why you need this. And I support this instead of being like, what are you talking about? Because it's also like it's such a priority for this film to tell.
00:23:00
Speaker
Like I did talk about this before and I'll talk about it every opportunity I get. There's a fight scene between um between flying snow and moon. So that's Maggie Chung and Zhang Zhiyu or Zhiyu Zhang.
00:23:15
Speaker
Where they fight to the death. And that scene is done two different times. And it's in two different seasons. So the leaves are different colors.
00:23:26
Speaker
And there's one time, is it just two different colors? Where it's yellow and red? or in the red sequence of the movie where everything is red. They're they're in a yellow environment where all the leaves are yellow, but they're dressed in red. And that's when they fight. And ah Snow is like, i I don't actually care to fight you. Also, like, you have no chance against me. So I'm just going to evade you. Yeah.
00:23:55
Speaker
And it's like very emotional on like Moon's part and Snow is being very like, just why are you doing this? Like, please stop. Well, I mean, she knows why she's doing it. Well, yeah, I mean, yeah. Like, why are you bothering? She's like, you're she looks at her as lesser because she is Birken Sword's.
00:24:16
Speaker
Like Apprentice. Apprentice. And in this version of the storytelling, Lover, because this is the jealousy storytelling. So there's like all this red costuming and all this red everywhere. And then the leaves are just like yellow. Yellow.
00:24:31
Speaker
And then they switch at the end from yellow to red. Yes, that's right. That's right. And the leaves are real and were gathered and color graded and like used. Like how crazy is that? That's so much. Yeah. Like how many PAs were sitting there with like buckets of leaves and like color cards. Yeah. Like this one's good enough, like quality control. Like this one is rejected. Yeah.
00:24:59
Speaker
and And there was absolutely like color grading that happened afterward. And the cinematographer like talks about it because, you know, you kind of can't avoid that because you can't make everything be perfectly the color that you're aiming for.
00:25:13
Speaker
at the level that they're trying to do that. And so there has to be like a little bit of working, working that out. But like, I always wonder if that happens to like, especially if you're filming outside, if there's like little, you know, color corrections that you can do to like adjust like natural lighting differences. If like, or like the color of the sky is like slightly more blue one day or something like, i you know,
00:25:39
Speaker
So there's actually something about that, that I had to go in the way back machine. And right now I accidentally crossed out of the freaking article. so it's taking forever to reload. Got it.
00:25:51
Speaker
But um there was a New York Times article that's now behind a paywall. But if you if you look for it in the way back machine, it's from 2004. ah You can read it without the stupid paywall and it's called um cracking the color code of hero by Robert Mackey.
Technical Challenges in Filmmaking and Costuming
00:26:06
Speaker
And um they actually talk about,
00:26:10
Speaker
ah Oh, well, first of all, that the color choices were aesthetic and not symbolic. So it's like you can kind yeah you know apply some symbolism here and there. It's not going to hurt your interpretation of the movie.
00:26:23
Speaker
But um the coloration is like the theme. The saturation the theme. But also because it's also showing um story being colored by different perception.
00:26:36
Speaker
But um Doyle talks about in the blue section... that basically it's based so they decided to okay to quote the filmmakers decided to stage this the climax of the second story on a magnificent lake and the color of the water they say inspired them to make that whole section blue and the cinematographer doyle explains we knew that one section should be red but we weren't sure what the other colors were and then It might not be in this article. it might be somewhere else.
00:27:07
Speaker
They had to stop filming and wait until the water would still and then refilm so that they could get the level of control that they wanted. you and last look yeah yeah And like in the third story, there's something about, oh yeah. so they had to wait.
00:27:28
Speaker
until later in the day instead of filming at noon because the heat in the desert was unbearable. And it was like beautiful but unbearably hot. So they had to wait later, which meant that the evening light changed the quality of the white costumes to be a little bit warmer than like bone white or like harsh white. yeah And so like they were very, very, very attentive to all of the things that were affecting the color And that they were like, every decision was like, okay, well, we have to get the right color that we want to to tell this story.
00:28:06
Speaker
Yeah. Like, it you imagine they're probably doing a lot of camera tests on... yeah stuff like There has to be extensive like pre-production and then like mid-production like testing. like especially because like yeah So much of it takes place like outside and like that is just you know you have less control when you're outside. you know and ah Doyle said in and in one of these things that I read that he switched from Fujifilm.
00:28:39
Speaker
to Kodak because think it was that way or it was the around but he had to switch film because one captured the specific red better than the other one did yeah and that they had to match the dye the costume designer dyed the costumes that was like the lead red and so that's where they had to like color correct some of the stuff in the red world to like to match, to go with that red.
00:29:07
Speaker
I mean, just like, like, wow. joke Like talking about the red section and in particular, there was something that I thought was, um was interesting that I was like, I, I choose to believe it's intentional in the way that I interpreted it, um which is so like Moon's character is the like apprentice. And in that version,
00:29:29
Speaker
she's like a a lover of broken sword, but there's obviously like, I feel like, you know, there's like a power imbalance when it's your own apprentice. Like that's a thing, but it was so interesting to me that like everything is this very like consistent red tone. And then her costume is like, it's almost more like a coral color. It's not the same color of red.
00:29:52
Speaker
and I was like, to me that says that she's like the weak ver like she's like a weaker version she looks like something that someone tried to dye that same red and they couldn't get they couldn't achieve the intensity of color and it came out a little bit like washed out and i felt like to me that like illustrated her character as described in that sequence obviously we know it's not real but like She's like the inferior in the sense that she's the apprentice. She's not the master. Like she's being used by Broken Sword as like a tool of jealousy against Snow. And then she like lets her emotion take over after he gets killed and like attacks Snow. But from like a weak defensive position that she like can't win.
00:30:41
Speaker
So I was like, I choose to interpret this costume this way. For me, that worked. Yeah. And I love that. Because it's just like it it shows what you could do with one color palette. Yeah. It's like this the level of saturation or depth or richness of color could determine or say something or like what it's what it's paired with could determine something about the character themselves.
00:31:05
Speaker
And it's like you would think when you just think about like a color wash of something being entirely one thing that maybe it's like, under stimulating or over stimulating or any of those things.
00:31:17
Speaker
And it's just not true. Like watching these, it's so beautiful because even though yes, you have like a dominant chosen grade of this color. Yeah. There's so many layers because like you just can't do that unless you're doing it digitally. You can't right have an identical thing. You can get as close as you want, but there's always going to be slight differences that offer like a richness in there. And it's just like, it's so stinking beautiful. Like, i imagine putting, you know, your, your actors into these things and then putting them all together in the environment you've created. yeah And like, that's going to affect how they're performing because they're going to feel like,
00:32:02
Speaker
elevated. They're going to feel different. It's like, that's, that's like what the the thing is with costume is it is a tool of storytelling. Right. And so it's like, you put that on a a character's body or an actor's body, and they're going to feel closer to that character. Yes.
00:32:17
Speaker
Because it's like, I exist in this world and I exist in this, this version of the world that this character sees. So I can be this character here.
00:32:28
Speaker
and I think it's so amazing. Like, you know, not to knock, you know, using like extensive CGI and all of that. And I like, I think that it's probably very, very hard to act in those movies where you're in like an environment that's made up of like blocks of foam or like, yeah you know, like it's, it's takes ah an extremely talented actor to like,
00:32:54
Speaker
portray the truth and like emotion of a scene when you're in like an environment that looks nothing like what it's going to be or you're like interacting with a character that's not really there like a tennis ball on a stick yeah like you are pushed to your limits as an actor for that Absolutely. But like, there's something I think so transportative about getting to be in the environment with all those things. And like, i think that's one of the reasons why,
00:33:27
Speaker
I like doing theater so much because you do have the stuff there, even if it's, you know, not as, you know, high tech and like expansive as stuff that you can do on film.
Historical Accuracy and Cultural Influence in Costume Design
00:33:41
Speaker
Like you have to have everything there present for the actors and the audience. And I think that it can like transport you and enhance your performance as an actor so much to like, imagine like being in that forest with all of those yellow leaves everywhere. Like you would feel like you were in a fairy tale. Absolutely. Just instantly. And just be like, wow, like you'd have to appreciate it. And being like at that lake,
00:34:11
Speaker
Yeah, wearing the blue and just like the peacefulness and like, just, yeah i don't know, it it like makes you feel a part of it so much. And I, I just like the decisions that were made and the work that went to it for this to achieve those things.
00:34:30
Speaker
is just very, very cool. And like there apparently was a, an exhibition at some point of Emmy Wada's costumes. And some of these were on display and it's like, I would love to see these up close because from ah distance and I watched this on DVD. So it was like a little bit fuzzy and I'm sure if I watched a different version, it would be more h d or whatever.
00:34:55
Speaker
sure But yeah, There's probably embroidery. There's probably like close-up details on these things, these garments that we're not quite able to pick up on camera.
00:35:07
Speaker
And so it's like we're more overwhelmed by the colors and like the the the textures than we are necessarily by embellishment. And i just like be are These are solidly costumes that I would love to touch. I would love to see what different fabrics are being used here. Because like there's there are ones that seem to have like a slightly wider weave.
00:35:34
Speaker
And then there are ones that seem like they are silk. yeah and like Very fine. Very light. line yeah Floaty, diaphanous silk. yeah Maybe like...
00:35:45
Speaker
I don't know, some sort of like a linen even because like the wider weave just feels more like a little bit heavier, but still so light yeah that it would be like floaty.
00:35:57
Speaker
i They're so beautiful. To me, it looked like the clothing in the red section was the most... light and floaty and like I wrote in my notes that like my my like dominant word for the red section is just the word flow because we have the the calligraphy the like brush of the calligraphy we have the arrows coming through the air and we have um a lot of the fight choreography or like when um
00:36:37
Speaker
When nameless or unnamed name, is it nameless or unnamed? It's probably unnamed, also referred to as nameless. So it's basically the same without a name. With the man who has no name.
00:36:49
Speaker
ah When him and and falling snow, flying snow unnamed. like defending from the arrows and they're like doing these like amazing, like beautiful, like spin and like kind of acrobatic movements. Like the, the texture of the clothing seems the most airy and seems the most delicate in that section overall. In that section, I think that everybody has these like massive sleeves. They do. Yeah. And in the other sections, yeah.
00:37:23
Speaker
There's a more variation. yeah yeah like there's Yeah. There's variation in each one, but it's like the blue and the white, they have tighter fitting sleeves, I think, to highlight. at least yeah maybe not in the blue, but like they don't have these. think the blue they do, for sure. they just Yeah, like the red, there's such voluminous sleeves. There's so much fabric. And the robes, I don't know each individual garment's name, and that's where...
00:37:48
Speaker
that's Yeah, I know. i i i was trying to figure that out and I was having a hard time. um But it is interesting because the actual like construction of the garments, they're not...
00:38:04
Speaker
um super complex in terms of like having a million little pieces piece together or something they're they're also not like super structured right in like holding in your body like yeah like when you think of stays or corset which is very elsewhere in the world like this is much luther and like shape based yes yeah and um By shapes, I mean like the patterns are geometric shapes that you sew together specifically to yeah waste less fabric. Right, a rectangle-based garment.
00:38:39
Speaker
yeah and um But it's like also most of the characters have very similar... Clothing because they seem to be united based on role or status. So it's like more like a uniform than it is like an individual expression. So like Nameless has his black...
00:39:00
Speaker
And then he has like different versions, but like in the first telling and when we're actually at the King's palace and we see him, he's in black and we see him with like a couple layers on and a couple layers off, but he's basically like a soldier, a nameless soldier, a warrior who is wearing clothing that is not meant to evoke like...
00:39:22
Speaker
like an element like wind or water the same way that the robes in the red sequence are meant to evoke the movement. Like it's more freedom of movement is what his black clothes are for. It's just incredible.
00:39:37
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like hearing people walk around in those two would be pretty great because there'd be like a little bit of a swish. Like just the different layers of fabric like communicating with each other. Man,
00:39:51
Speaker
um man I just like I'm just such a fan of how beautiful these are because they're deceptively simple. And like the deceptive simple, like allows for so much layering to be based in the color and the, like how that relates to the story and the character and yeah just build and build and build.
00:40:13
Speaker
It's so like, it's, it's just, it's so poetic. It's so operatic. It's so epic in the like epic tale sense of the word. Like, yeah, there's,
00:40:27
Speaker
It's so much like i larger than life, like an ideal, this like ancient story. And then like when you get to the end and it's sort of like, this is how what the country that we know of as China like kind of had its beginning as like a unified place. It makes sense that this like scale of story is like what they wanted to do tell that story.
00:40:53
Speaker
tell that And that's that's kind of like why I wanted to start the conversation based on color, even if, you know, the director and the cinematographer like, it's not about that. It's just how pretty it looked. What I like is that the colors, any interpretation can work with the story based on like what are, you know, very surface level understanding of like Eastern characters.
00:41:20
Speaker
at least Chinese like a relationship to colors is. um But also I like that they were working with kind of like an ancient color palette, right? Where it's like it with the King, the black, the indigo, the like very specific colors were there. Like there was like a brass or a gold color.
00:41:43
Speaker
like that was part of the king's armor and the candles that were in front of him. um But it's like everything also kind of works in the historical placement of where the story is, even if the colors don't need to be directly lifted and interpreted.
00:42:02
Speaker
It's just like, I like... Very much to dive into color theory with stuff because it's like the third telling of the story where there's the white costumes. White is a color of mourning for more Eastern cultures. And so it's like that fits with that third section of the story with these, you know, we could call them freedom fighters um losing to empire.
00:42:30
Speaker
Yeah. it's It's the changeover. It's the yeah grief of losing independence and losing that sense of self for something else.
00:42:41
Speaker
And you can also see it as like, there's also different, you know, more ah Western understanding of the color white as being like a symbol of like purity. Yeah. And so you could see it as like, yeah,
00:42:55
Speaker
you know, we've seen these two different versions of this same story that weren't true. And now we're telling you the real version. And so it's like the purity of like the white is like the truth of the, of what actually happened or, you know, you could interpret it that way too, which is obviously like a more ah different, you know, maybe like not traditional, know,
00:43:18
Speaker
thing but like you can interpret it is that way it works and that's also listed on wikipedia as one of the the colors as well you know and so it's like yeah it all works and it's just like it just heightens kind of like what you feel because yes it's very bright it's very saturated but it's also still subtly affecting how you feel when you're watching it because you're just so washed over I just love it.
00:43:46
Speaker
And I think it's hard to talk about because I can't like say, i don't know what each individual piece is called of each costume. Like I just don't know. And, but it's like, there are so many important things like nameless is hairstyle, um the band around his forehead, which does that say unnamed? Yeah.
00:44:08
Speaker
I don't know. i can't remember what it says, but there's writing on it. yeah And so it's like, it's given to him to dictate who he is and kind of like his mission. And there's just so many ways that hair and costume are used in this film to just like great impact.
00:44:33
Speaker
I mean, I could say that like 5,000 times. Yeah. Like we've talked a lot about the red section. ah Something I loved about the blue section is that it actually did stray from being entirely blue because snow has these blue robes that also have kind of like a fuchsia.
00:44:53
Speaker
And maybe it's a different color that's kind of affected by all the blue around it. But there's like a trim on the outside edge of the robes. Yes. And the tone of her, especially that the sort of the first scene that you see everyone together in the blue section, they're like sitting at the circular table and there's like all of these like stacked like bundles like around them everything.
00:45:19
Speaker
Everything in the space is that tone of blue, which is, I would say, like a purple-based blue. it At least in the version that I was watching, it's not purple. But it's like, its it has like, it almost veers into a bit of like a lilac tone, a little bit. that there's a There's a name for that. And it's like, it starts with a Cyan?
00:45:43
Speaker
No, cyan, yes. But this is a little bit, there's like a flower. oh the corn cornflower. No.
00:45:51
Speaker
I'm never going to remember it. But there's there's a blue. a parent No, it's not CP. Periwinkle. It's like a periwinkle blue. Yes, it's periwinkle. Yes. And then yet the tone of Snow's costume not...
00:46:06
Speaker
not In that, like, it's just a little bit off and it has a tiny bit of like a green yeah tone in it. It's like, it's a little bit more like turquoise and the other shades of blue.
00:46:19
Speaker
And then having that band, it like, it changes things. And like, you know, I think it's interesting, especially in that version of the story and how like the character relationships, um,
00:46:32
Speaker
play out there that like she's a little bit apart in that one so it's like you know in the red section we have moon is like a little bit apart in this section we have her snow being
Color Symbolism Across Cultures
00:46:42
Speaker
a little bit apart it's interesting just to kind of like what does it mean it's to show that like it's just i love that like it can you can interpret it as like in the first one the way that you described which i agree with that moon is like ah not finished yet or is like a lesser yeah version or a copy even you know just like not saturated not there and so even like aspiring to but not there right and then in the blue that it's showing that Snow does not agree with Broken Sword and like is apart and like will break off and it's also interesting reading that like
00:47:25
Speaker
a long time ago blue and green there wasn't a distinction right and so all of those colors were kind of looked at as the same color just different different like shades different shades of the same color yeah and so like applying even that even if it's not something that you have to like put an interpretation toward.
00:47:46
Speaker
But having that historical knowledge is so cool. Because like understanding of human history, what we see at all, yeah and how that has developed, and then how that developed into traditional colors or you know meanings and how they were applied culturally. like It's really cool to be able to like dig into that. Yeah. Yeah. It's not necessarily the same for the West.
00:48:14
Speaker
Right. Like, a no, but we have our own things like, yeah you know, that don't make any sense. But like, you know, like logically, like, you know, when you see someone and you're like, that person has red hair, like their hair is not red, you know, like it's not actually red. It's like yeah orange or like coppery or like, you know, like there's so many, but it's not,
00:48:36
Speaker
red It's not the color of like a red apple. like But we call it that because, you know, it's a cultural thing. This kind of exposure to different cultural understandings yes is so cool because like it's just so stunning.
00:48:51
Speaker
And then to be like, what does it mean? And like, even if it doesn't have like a direct meaning to weed through what we see things as and interpret it as yes and then like try to yeah get more information and feed that into it and just realize that people just yeah see color differently sometimes and it's like it's just yeah it's just beautiful this verdict Good movie. Good movie. With a, you know, at the end. I mean, yeah, message is... Especially, yeah. Yikes. um
00:49:28
Speaker
So this your first time seeing it. Like you said that some of it felt a little bit familiar. ah Yeah, this so this would be the first time that I definitely have seen the movie from beginning to end. It's possible that I had maybe seen maybe some bits and pieces, you know, I feel like it's back in the era when like, like a movie like this would just like be on TV, like on, you know, like TNT on a Saturday at 3pm. This one like consumed the box office. Yeah. So it like blew the top off of stuff. And because we were teenagers, it was like, so pop culture. Like it's, it's, it's there. It's in the vicinity of my eyeballs. Right. Yeah. Just sort of like you're aware that it yeah is out there.
00:50:09
Speaker
Do you have a favorite section or a favorite series of costumes or, you know, anything there? Did anything strike you more than anything else? Since this is technically like your first, you know, full watch. Yeah.
00:50:24
Speaker
I really enjoyed the movie overall. it it was kind of fascinating. i think as like a, a thing to see the same actors kind of portray the same outcomes with different,
00:50:38
Speaker
motives and different like reasoning every time so I think I mean I really enjoyed the the red section in hindsight knowing that it was not true because it was so like the most like melodramatic of the sections and it was like watching it was a little bit like oh my god What's going on? And then to know that it's like a fake story that's told to like deceive the king made me really like appreciate that section. And I think that I enjoyed the like visuals of like how the costumes functioned in that section the most because...
00:51:24
Speaker
there was so much movement and so much like happening visually with just what the pieces were doing that um the other ones felt more restrained, which makes sense because they were told from a different perspective. So um I also was really, um,
00:51:44
Speaker
like struck by like the green section, which we haven't really talked about yet. yeah I mean, it's like, it's much shorter. It's much shorter and it's in flashes and it also alternates between black and white, like yeah black and white film.
00:51:58
Speaker
And then going into the color, like literally ah flash of one character being in color and then back to black and white, which is yeah so interesting.
00:52:10
Speaker
And it was sort of like, it was interesting because it was like, it was like a flashback within a flashback, like where it's, it, the green section is contained entirely within the white section of the movie. And it's like, the white section is like the truth, a flashback of what actually happened. And then we have a flashback from there to the, that is the green section when Broken Sword and Snow come and try to like kill the king the first time, like a few years before. We also have a green section that's with Skye. Did you say that? Right. Sorry. So like at the very beginning.
00:52:46
Speaker
i was thinking in my head that was gray. So it's it is green because he's wearing green and then it's like it's not the same kind of green. right It's like it's different greens.
00:52:58
Speaker
yeah But there are greens there as well. So it's like yeah it's like the retelling of the assassination attempt has those greens. And then that flashback in the false story that that Nameless is telling before we get to the red, we have these flashes of green.
00:53:16
Speaker
And that one switches into black and white. Yeah. And then we don't see Skye again. He exits the story. He is gone. So it's like that first section, like we hear his name, but we never see him again.
00:53:29
Speaker
So it's like that section, which is in timeline, it's the first part of the story that he tells the king. Yeah. It's like that part is the truth. Yes, which I think it has to be to a certain extent because... Because he wants to gain a little bit of trust, maybe, like while he's telling it. The king's guards are there. Yeah. they see what happens, even if they don't know, like if there's context missing of like some kind of plan or like whatever that the two have had. And the actual fight itself is what switches to black and white.
00:54:03
Speaker
Yes. Oh, it's them imagining. It's them. They're like standing on either sides of the courtyard and they're like going into their like mind palace and like imagining the fight, like what the other person is going to do, like strategically, like planning out the fight. And then when they actually like come back and have the fight, it's super short.
00:54:26
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like, and so it leaves it open to interpretation what the motives are for why that fight is so short. And I also like that Skye looks separate from Broken Sword. Very. And Flying Snow and Moon. Like he he almost feels, because they're kind of like,
00:54:44
Speaker
desert adjacent yeah and so they're they're very flowy very lightweight and he feels like he's like in a colder maybe yeah it's like raining they're like in this courtyard playing i mean i the version that i watched was um dubbed i i didn't have access to a subtitle version so they referred to the game in the dubbed version as chess it looked like go yeah i'm gonna say it's go I think it was Go. like They did refer to it as chess. And I was like, okay. um
00:55:17
Speaker
But it is like actively raining. Yeah. And he's in much thicker. Yeah. iured It's like different. head like Yeah. And like, they kind of get united a little bit in the blue section of the story. yeah the second story, because we see the mountain lake.
00:55:35
Speaker
Instead of just desert. So it's like geographically, we see more of a unification, even though their costumes remain pretty separate. Like sky is still there's flowing, but it's nowhere near the red section. Like it's, he is he is dressed in,
00:55:54
Speaker
to fight and he is dressed for more work, I feel like, like, like labor than when we get to the red section, which is at a calligraphy school. These are warriors, but they are at a calligraphy school. So technically they're dressed, not necessarily for like,
00:56:11
Speaker
farm work or like tending bar like yeah they are it's more spiritual and um there's a word I'm looking for that I'm not going to get but it's it's contemplative contemplative yeah and and just like It's not meant to be doing big, massive stuff.
00:56:32
Speaker
Yeah, it's just like it's it's interesting where the green pops up. And the green pops up, it seems, in the reality. And so it's also just really lovely the different kinds of green that we see. Because like in the sky section, the guards are also wearing tones of green.
00:56:49
Speaker
it's Yeah, it's very like olive. It's very drab. It's olive and tan. And there's also like a little bit of like brown. Like it's very earthy yeah without crossing over into red.
00:57:03
Speaker
Like it just... is very, very much on the green side of the color palette, but is showing you like khaki even, you know, like just these colors that are on that side of the palette. And then when we get to the final section of the story where the King and Nameless are agreeing what is closest to the truth, and they're talking about the very first assassination attempt, that green is like Jade.
Visual Storytelling and Character Perception
00:57:28
Speaker
Jade. Thank you. It is it is a jade. And it's so disgustingly pretty because inside the palace, they have these curtains.
00:57:41
Speaker
And every time we've seen the palace so far, it's just black and indigo. Empty. Yeah. It's empty. There are no curtains. And now we know why there are no curtains.
00:57:51
Speaker
Yes. Assassins could use them. To hide. to hide. And so there's this scene at the end of the fight between Broken Sword, which is where he gets the name Broken Sword, I think, because the king snaps his sword. sword yeah And he disarms the king and still has the broken sword. And he cuts the king's neck, just nicks his neck, but chooses not to kill him.
00:58:18
Speaker
And we're watching... ah Snow flying snow watch broken sword. Yeah, not kill the king and we're watching the king's reactions to not dying. And we're watching as the curtains all fall at the same time because during their fight, they've been cutting them all.
00:58:40
Speaker
Yeah. And that fabric is like the same kind of weight. maybe even a little bit lighter is the fabric that flying snow and broken sword are wearing. So it's like they have perfectly chosen they're camouflage and they are also just like, so meant to be like this,
00:59:02
Speaker
atmosphere, you know, and like these curtains all fall. And it's, it's kind of the same effect you get when you see, at least to me, like emotionally, it was the same effect as when you get like giant explosions.
00:59:16
Speaker
Oh, but it just like visually because these massive pieces of fabric are catching air at different points. And so they're just like these giant bubbles, like just Doing so many different things that you could look anywhere on the screen and your eyes are like... Yeah, it's like billowing. in There's like wind, so it's like blowing. And then as they get like cut and they're like falling, it's like rippling. and it's just like everything happening. It's just this like stunning effect.
00:59:49
Speaker
And it's also like watching those curtains go down is kind of the same thing as what Broken Sword is doing. He's like... not fighting anymore.
01:00:01
Speaker
And so it's like they're falling. And his his goal to kill the king is also falling. And so he's still while those curtains are going down.
01:00:14
Speaker
And then we never see those curtains again. and Broken Sword has also decided to stop trying to kill the king. Give up his. So it's just like this beautiful unification like that just happens. And it's like whatever interpretations I'm making, those are just for me. you know Yeah, absolutely. It's totally okay yeah that they're not accurate and it's fine. But it's like the fact that you can make these things and just like apply these textiles to these people or to the story is like really just fun. And yeah, that the scene is so impactful. And it's like, I love that.
01:00:50
Speaker
in this telling of the truth that they're wearing freaking jade which is not to like put the color theory on it here we go it was like i read at the beginning that like a traditional approach to jade was that it was like health prosperity and harmony yeah and heaven that it was like it just there There was this elevated meaning to Jade.
01:01:18
Speaker
And to have this idea that like Flying Snow and Broken Sword have this ideal of being free and keeping their country and all of these things and other countries free of empire, that is their ideal.
01:01:32
Speaker
who And that they are these idealists, these ideal... idealist freedom fighters coming in to fight this king who's in all black and like that he can see their ideal and he can see them without looking that at them as like one dimensional villains, i think is like, what, yeah why that's why nameless chooses not to kill him is because he can see them as clearly as broken sword could see him as the movie tells us. Right. Right. won't Bunny ear fingers here.
01:02:09
Speaker
know you Fine. Just let him take over. Yeah. It's just like, it's very interesting to see that like they weren't dressed in black. Right. they weren't dressed in red even like, you know, they weren't looking violent. Like if you looked at them from far away, they would look like elementals or like artists, you know, like they look very yeah elegant. They look there's beautiful. They look beautiful. And that the King, cause this is also his telling too, is like, this I think is the truth.
01:02:40
Speaker
And it's a telling that he and Nameless are agreeing on. And like, that they can see them as beautiful, even though they're trying to kill him. Yeah. It's like, what, what an effect. Yeah. And I think it kind of goes into something that is said earlier, like towards the beginning of the movie, um when they're like showing the like, literally like thousands of soldiers they're talking about the King and they say that his army is so effective because they never underestimate their enemies.
01:03:10
Speaker
And I think that, you know, whatever you want to say about the message of the film that definitely does hold true yeah or how the characters portrayed. Like he doesn't underestimate them and think of them as like stupid and petty and not worthy. Like he estimates them appropriately for how skillful they are. Yeah. And that the movie itself is called hero.
01:03:33
Speaker
Yeah. And that he, he looks at them as honorable. think. yeah And like that, that holds, through both of the storytellings that are not the lie.
01:03:44
Speaker
Yes. Is like so great. And that the colors and the way that the colors are used work with that is just like, you know, the saturation and like the fantasy of the red versus the others that have slightly more nuance as they go. Yeah. And like, even the way that characters behave, like in, in the red section, behave. It's like tell novella like so a so melodramatic and like crazy. And then in like, even the blue section, which is like, not also not true, but like the King's idea of what happens, it's much more stoic and refined and like honorable. And then obviously, like we get the white section, which is more complicated, but yeah still, you know.
01:04:24
Speaker
ah more refined. Yeah. its God, these costumes are just so great. And like if you look at IMDb, there's only five costumers listed aside from the designer.
01:04:37
Speaker
And so there's four people listed as costumer and then one wardrobe supervisor listed. And so it's like wowie-zowie because you mentioned the the the army, right? There's the army and we see...
01:04:53
Speaker
This army multiple times we see them just like outside in the desert yelling. And then we see archers. We swordsmen. Like we see different levels of palace guard. So the palace guards are like, there's like a swordsman two chunks that like break apart and then there's yeah the archers who we and we see them all moving at different rates and they're all moving together and then we also see all of like the counselors and the ministers who have like horse hair hat I'm gonna say that they're horse hair because they're
01:05:29
Speaker
I think that's what I thought they were. Yeah, I think they are. And they're like very, very tall. And yeah they they look like birds. Like these ministers remind me of quails. And part of it is because of how they move together.
01:05:42
Speaker
Because there's like so many. There's dozens and dozens and dozens. And they're all in black robes. And so like all of the warrior or the the guards, the soldiers and the ministers are all in black.
01:05:56
Speaker
The soldiers have like you know different armor on top of that. They have red banners. They have different pieces. But then like the palace guards are red and black. And the ministers, I think, are just black.
01:06:08
Speaker
And that sounds right the they use of these like giant like oceans of solid color yeah eating, like trying to like eat the king almost. Cause they like come up on either side and they're like, kill him, kill him.
01:06:26
Speaker
And then like the hero nameless walking away from the palace after choosing not to kill the king. Yes. And they're like this moving, like there's like this force field around him and it moves. But yeah, it's like a square that moves with him as he moves until they lead him to the gate.
01:06:45
Speaker
Yeah. And then that visual of that like quivering like red feathers, like you know, just like the red on black. And he's like so stoic in how he moves.
01:06:56
Speaker
And there's still the flow of his clothing, but it's nowhere near, you know, yes the other things we've seen him wear. yeah And he's very controlled and very...
01:07:06
Speaker
put together and then like that last image that we get of all those arrows with just the shape of him before he died those those things that were like all the pins that you'd like stick your hand so good Except this one a little bit bloodier. you know, like a little more harmful.
Costume Design Industry Insights and Emi Wada's Legacy
01:07:26
Speaker
Just little bit worse. and And then we see him be like his body be carted away and he's covered.
01:07:31
Speaker
In that red drape. Satiny red drape. Yeah. Imagining those costumes because like the only understanding I have of like film costume is through Hollywood, right? Just like based on yeah location and my education, et cetera.
01:07:46
Speaker
So we obviously have rental houses. And like, when you do big stuff like that, you probably rent, like depending on your budget, but you rent at least like some foundational garments, like shirts.
01:07:59
Speaker
Well, we have 800 black, you know, silk long sleeve shirts. Great. yeah And then you build off of that, or you have like mass amounts of pants or boots or something.
01:08:10
Speaker
Right. Or you're just like buying from a supplier that makes like a uniform or something. Yeah. yeah And there are like a lot of names that you're very familiar with. And because this is in China, like I don't know manufacturer names. I don't know warehouse names. I don't know how like how you go about getting yeah i'm not saying that like oh my god this is mars everything's so different it's just i don't know the business at all yeah yeah and like i don't know country has their own film industry yeah their own entertainment industries and like i don't know where any of this stuff is concentrated i don't know i didn't know like
01:08:47
Speaker
Emmy Wada had like a theater background as well. And so what you can tell. Yeah, totally. It's so theatrical and dramatic. It's like I just I wonder, always wonder on these films where I can't find an article about like, you know, behind the scenes.
01:09:02
Speaker
What did the costume shop look like? What did the storage look like? You know, like where where were you getting your stuff from? Were you renting it? Were you making it If you were making it, like, who did you hire? What happened to it afterward? What do you do with 2000 matching soldier costumes? That's kind of the cool thing about like rental houses is that a lot of stuff just gets...
01:09:25
Speaker
put in there then gets rented out and you see it pop up in other historical epics and so it's like yeah i wonder if any of these have been used in anything else or if they're kept because there is like um there was mention of museum like exhibit of her work right sometimes things are kept away for for that and it's also like yeah I doubt that there was one costume made for each person based on different things, right? So it's like in the red section, we have these massive physical things. Like they're in these like rigs where they're flipping around and doing all this stuff.
01:10:03
Speaker
yeah there have to be different versions the stunt version of the costume this is yeah the you know regular this is the backup this is the whatever like there's got to be so it's like where'd they go yeah what happened did save one you know like is that what the exhibit was is just like they saved one of each or and what happened this is just where i wish that there was more and boy don't i have something to tell you and i don't know where to find it I don't know where to watch it, but there was like basically a movie made about the making of Hero.
01:10:32
Speaker
and it was called Cause, The Birth of Hero. And it follows Yimou Zhang in the making. And I just found mention of it somewhere. And then I went to the Wayback Machine and it was taken down from where it had been screenshot from.
01:10:48
Speaker
on YouTube for you know copyright infringement. But somewhere there exists, and I don't know how long it is, but there's like a documentary about Yimou Zhang making this movie. So I'm hoping that there's some...
01:11:04
Speaker
some part of it because the costumes are such a big deal for the, for the storytelling in this one, like for the aesthetics that I'm hoping that there's some, something about Emi Wada and like the process.
01:11:17
Speaker
Cause like just talking about the dying alone, like that must've been so many dye tests. to get exactly where you want. And like, I know, i mean, I've obviously never done fabric dyeing on the scale of this film. But even when I've done it for other designers, like in very, very small capacity, just the amount of documentation of like what formula you use to get that color so that you can repeat that exact color is serious business. It's It's serious business. And it also has to be like temperature controlled.
01:11:53
Speaker
Yes. my experience, because like anything can affect the dye. Yeah. And I like beards in the air can affect like, it's like, if too many eyes are looking at you while you're dying, something it can affect it. And like, of course, the fabric itself can affect it. So it's like,
01:12:09
Speaker
i just I would love to know you know just like these details. like what What are the fabrics that you guys used? like Where did you get them? Who did you source them from? um i just want to be nosy as hell because like it's it's all about the process that makes it...
01:12:25
Speaker
So much cooler for us. Like, just like, what was your process like from beginning to end? Because like we talk about the dye, there are master dyers that can dye things with their eyeballs closed. And i think that they are actual wizards because you're over...
01:12:44
Speaker
A big pot with it you have a giant like wooden spoon. What is the difference between that and a witch? Nothing. nothing it's just It's all chemistry. And it's so cool. And it's like, I've definitely done some big dye projects. And holy, you are knocked into humility so quick.
01:13:03
Speaker
Because especially if you're dyeing things that pre-exist, in my experience. Yeah. you really have no control because if you're going to strip away dye from something to get to where you want it to go, you are actually degrading the fiber yeah of the textile in order to strip stuff away and then replace it with something else that might not bond because of what that textile is and all of the other interference that happened before.
01:13:31
Speaker
So it's like someone so many times you're just like crossing your fingers and hoping Yeah, I hope so. And like you can only dye it so many times before it stops accepting color. And every time like i think something that people that don't know a lot about fabric dyeing, if I like see people asking for advice online and stuff is like something that you have to really remind people is every time you dip that thing in color, it gets darker. yeah.
01:13:59
Speaker
So you only have so many times that you can try before it just didn't work. And depending on the fiber that you are dyeing and the kind of dye that you are using, it might literally take a second to reach the color that you want.
01:14:16
Speaker
Yes. And if you hold it two seconds, you're effed. Like you start sticking it into that like pot and you immediately pull it back out because it's already, i know whenever people ask for like advice on dyeing stuff black,
01:14:27
Speaker
online the answer is just overwhelmingly don't just buy the thing in black it is yeah so hard to achieve that level of color yeah because it's also just like color theory goes in there as well and how dyes and colors are built right the the idea that There were dye tests happening where the results were not where our designer wanted them to be. So she switched to mineral water.
01:14:55
Speaker
Even just makes me go, what kind of dye were you using? That the minerals were going to bond with the dye and the fiber better than treated water was going to. Like, what?
01:15:07
Speaker
Yeah, everything. it opens so many questions. So many questions don't have the answers. And like at first blush, you're blown away by the color. And then maybe you like start to pick up on the actual costumes themselves. Because at first you're like, Wow.
01:15:22
Speaker
And then you're like, oh, wait, all of this had to be made. im like, what parts of it were made? You know, like what parts of it were made? um Because it's so deliberate.
01:15:33
Speaker
And so, I don't know, I just, this this is one of those, for me, that was like, wow, for my eyeballs, like, pretty early. and Yeah. applause to Emi Wada and her team and thank you the crew that made this ah because just like as ah as a story it was absolutely beautiful and so I do recommend watching House of hidden um Flying Daggers which we might not watch this season because so So that was hero. That was hero. Thanks for listening ah to at least me vomit fangirl over the design. ah ah And, you know, we're continuing the larger than life um epic quality for next week.
01:16:21
Speaker
And we're going to be watching the film, everything everywhere all at once. Heck yeah. yeah And I'm excited to talk about that one. It's such a nice shift where it's more modern stuff and like high fashion kind of inspired little bits here and there. Yeah.
01:16:38
Speaker
But still epic, still fantasy, and still poetry, is a still yeah visual delight. Can't wait. I've only seen it once and I was just like, just watching it straight, like not deliberating on every single thing. No, just feeling all the feelings. Yes. So this is going to be really cool watching it from this lens.
01:16:58
Speaker
I hope you guys join us for the next episode. Thanks for listening. Thank you.