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Wicked- I Need That Munchkin Sweater
24 Plays1 month ago
The costumes in Wicked are a triumph. It's a feast for the eyes and you simply must watch it if you haven't. We get into it's journey from novel, to stage, to screen. And is it really important to like the songs in this version? Or is the story told as much between the big numbers? And of course, Fiyero was a bit of an afterthought. Oops!
Also: Announcing our first live podcast episode coming up in May.
Source: Peacock's making of special
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1262426/?ref_=ttmi_ov
Music: Cassette Deck by Basketcase
Recommended
Transcript
Live Podcast Announcement at PAX East
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, friends. We have a big announcement today. We are going to be doing our first ever live podcast episode.
00:00:10
Speaker
Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Everybody who is planning to attend the PAX East conference this May in Boston, you can come and see us.
00:00:22
Speaker
We will be performing a show on Saturday evening in one of the official rooms at PAX. We have like a time slot and everything. It's absolutely insane. feels really unreal and strange. Yeah.
00:00:38
Speaker
And for anyone who obviously will not be able to attend the convention, we are planning to record the episode and be able to release it as a bonus for everyone to hear, even if you're not able to see us in person.
00:00:51
Speaker
We will be covering the Super Mario Brothers movie from 1993. So not the animated, nothing that might maybe makes sense because I haven't seen the new movie. No, no We are covering 1993 movie that has minimal things to do with the game. And we are pretty thrilled about it because that was a very formative movie, I think, for a generation. Oh, absolutely. Crazy, crazy stuff.
00:01:21
Speaker
And if you've never seen it, my God, you need to see it to see Goombas, to see the the real life um envisioning of Princess Peach, of Mario, Luigi, all of these things. All your favorite friends. All your favorite friends.
00:01:35
Speaker
And it's going to be probably a little bit bonkers and also probably a little bit shorter than our regular episodes because we will have a very ah strict time slot. But um yeah, come and see our faces in in real time. And ah yeah, let's be friends in the real. yeah Yeah. And if you know anyone that is going to PAX and you're not, please tell them to come see us. Tell them to say hi. Like we would love to meet people and
Introduction to 'Hot Set' and Movie Costume Design
00:01:59
Speaker
have a good time. and Heck yeah.
00:02:02
Speaker
I'm Melinda. I'm Ariel. This is Hot Set, the movie podcast about costume design.
Significance of 'Wicked' in Storytelling
00:02:23
Speaker
Hello, dear friends. Welcome to another episode of Hot Set. We are continuing our journey around the color wheel of textiles. And today we've spun the color wheel and we've landed on...
00:02:39
Speaker
Wicked part one, probably the most recent movie that we've covered in the history of the podcast so far. I don't think we've done anything ah more current than this, even though it's about almost six months old at this point.
00:02:55
Speaker
um So, yes, what is Wicked? Wicked is the movie version of the Broadway version of the novel by Gregory Maguire from the 90s.
00:03:08
Speaker
It is sort of a prequel to the events of The Wizard of Oz, in case anyone is not familiar with the story. ah We get to know the characters that are going to be the sort of secondary and tertiary characters in l Frank Baum's The Wizard of Oz. We get to meet them, see them develop, see them become who they're going to become in that story.
00:03:36
Speaker
to get in a little bit to like personal history with Wicked, um i read the book, I want to say like 2006. two thousand and three, maybe i read it while I was in high school.
00:03:50
Speaker
um But I believe at that point, it had been announced that it was going to become a musical, but it hadn't premiered yet. um i remember really liking the book.
00:04:02
Speaker
And being really excited for the show. um i believe but the musical actually had its ah original like trial in San Francisco. i did not see that.
00:04:16
Speaker
It premiered on Broadway 2004, want to say. And I saw it for the first time when the first national tour came through.
00:04:27
Speaker
San Francisco 2005. And it was my first time seeing movies. a show at that level um i had seen smaller professional productions, but I'd never seen a Broadway show and I'd never seen a tour of a Broadway show before. So it was pretty magical to me. i loved it. i was stupidly and obsessed ah with Wicked for a while after that.
00:05:00
Speaker
um And i think one of the reasons that I liked it so much is The Wizard of Oz has been my favorite movie since I was about four years old. and um I've had
Broadway Costume Craftsmanship
00:05:11
Speaker
different incarnations of the, like, Dorothy dress as I have, like, aged and grown. um I have ah a version of the Dorothy dress here in my office that my mom made me when I was, like, 17. Yeah.
00:05:27
Speaker
in case anyone was wondering uh when my like sewing journey began um my car is also named dorothy in case anyone needed to know that about me is very good to know now because whenever i see you come in i can be like there she is There she is.
00:05:47
Speaker
There's Dorothy. What's your history with Wicked Ariel? What is it? Wizard of Oz was also major for me as well growing up.
00:05:58
Speaker
um I feel like it's kind of like a common... thread for a lot of folks in our generation because we also just like had more limited like kid friendly fantasy movies like accept accessible on vhs and um true yeah i was just like there's nothing like being little and being exposed to like the power of cinema or the power of the magic of storytelling in any way, shape or form. And that was just so powerful. And even today people talk about how some of the tricks in that movie are so incredibly skillful and like, just like launched a thousand ships, you know? And, um, yeah,
00:06:40
Speaker
I just loved some of like the bitter sweetness of the story of Wizard of Oz and the magic of it and like the tangible magic of it, because it was before CG, of course. And so like the sets were practical and just really incredible.
00:06:59
Speaker
um But when Wicked, the stage production came out, I remember... starting to read the book and then I got distracted by something else. So I never finished it.
00:07:10
Speaker
And that was never anything about how good or bad the book was. I just never picked it up again. And um I have family who like really, really, really love the production.
00:07:21
Speaker
um but I have... preferences for certain Broadway. I'm trying to i'm trying to find them. You're so diplomatic.
00:07:33
Speaker
So diplomatic. The nicest way of saying things. I don't like some Broadway because I feel like – I don't think anybody would disagree with this. There are different generational like tastes that come in with Broadway and like the music and the sound and the choreography, like everything has its moment.
00:07:51
Speaker
And I think that there's like a certain nasal quality to a lot of singing in Broadway over the past like 20 years that is not for me, no matter what is happening around it.
00:08:03
Speaker
When you're going to see a musical, you're you better be invested in the music because you're going to be assailed with it no matter what by nature. Yeah, it's so true. And like, personally, i don't know anything about music. Like I, it's just not in my skillset, my knowledge, it's just not there. And I think,
00:08:25
Speaker
For me, um because of that, I get more drawn to like the lyric quality or like the content, lyric content of shows. And I think something that I really like about Wicked is the sort of lyrical way that they play with the idea of like good, evil, wicked as like words with different meanings and how they kind of use the the progression of the story to like redefine those words as we like go through and like the the way the characters kind of change and are perceived. So I think that that is something that sticks with me that has nothing to do with the quality of the music itself.
00:09:06
Speaker
Just because like, I don't really pretend to know what is good music and what is bad. I just know what I So... For me, it's it's the singing style, regardless of how incredible the voices are.
00:09:20
Speaker
When you're shining to the needle, I can't go with there. ah can't do it. And that, I think, is a lot for me of the original soundtrack. Like Idina Menzel, Kristen Chenoweth, incredible performers.
00:09:34
Speaker
But yeah just the singing style, in addition to the music. Like, when I'm talking about music, I'm talking about the singing. And I can't. do it. It's just not for me. so it was not attractive to me at all because I heard some of the music first and I was just like, thank you. no thank you. i love that for everybody else.
00:09:52
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, yeah that's the kind of thing is like, you know, like I don't want to go put myself in a situation where I'm not going to enjoy it and like potentially affect who I'm with and like what their experience is going to be. So i totally get that. And I'm a really bad theater person because I'm not a huge
Political Themes and Color in 'Wicked'
00:10:11
Speaker
musical person. Like we've talked about that before in the past. Like I,
00:10:16
Speaker
I kind of like plays better than most musicals generally. So I'm not like inclined to like something just because it's a musical.
00:10:27
Speaker
I have to kind of be like grabbed by like the story or something else going on. But for me, ah Wicked is a good one. It works for me. Yeah, I also saw this production um in like kind of a different way. um I did have the ah privilege, I would say, of going into a couple of the costume workshops where Broadway costumes for the show were and are still made and kind of see people like working on them. That's not like why I was there, but it's sort of like...
00:11:05
Speaker
this constant flow of work through like these costume workshops is making, continually making and remaking costumes for Wicked because the show is still active on Broadway and you have people coming and going from productions.
00:11:20
Speaker
And i learned ah in that workshop that the, The Broadway Glinda bubble dress, the blue one, like just naturally loses its um like buoyancy over the run. So it has to be replaced every like four to five months because it just sort of wilts over time. So there's just like a constant stream of work going on.
00:11:45
Speaker
ah in New York or wherever there's like a production of Wicked Happening that like keeps these workshops working on stuff. And I think that's something that people kind of forget that like when you open a show on Broadway,
00:12:00
Speaker
It's continuous work for these companies that make costume, that do makeup, that make props. like It becomes these like ongoing contracts that can kind of keep some of these companies afloat if they happen to be the makers involved. So that was something that was really interesting to see because it was probably...
00:12:24
Speaker
I don't know, maybe 15 years that Wicked had been open and I was in a shop that was actively making things for the show still. And I feel like that's something that maybe people that aren't like familiar with that industry might not realize, but ah it's definitely true. And it was something that I kind of learned. I didn't think about it as practically before that. So that was like an interesting thing to know.
00:12:50
Speaker
I guess we should note that this film is directed by John Chu. It stars Cynthia Erivo as Elphaba, Ariana Grande as Glinda. We've got Jonathan Bailey, Michelle Yeoh, Jeff Goldblum, ah the hilarious Bowen Yang.
00:13:07
Speaker
And the costumes are designed by Paul Tazewell, who has a long history of designing costumes for theater, particularly Broadway, ah but also designed costumes for the movie version of West Side Story that came out a couple years ago.
00:13:24
Speaker
um It's interesting to see... a different Broadway designer take the helm of the movie version of a Broadway show and to have it be like a different interpretation than the original Broadway designer who was ah Susan Hilferty. Yeah. It's interesting to see someone like see their career move into this new medium, but it's like familiar source material. So it's, it's kind of interesting to see.
00:13:52
Speaker
i don't know how, someone who only had a movie background would design this movie, but I feel like it would be different than someone who has a theater background did.
00:14:03
Speaker
first we just simply don't know what that would look like. And I don't think we need to, because I think this is like such a a landmark design and like the stage one is landmark. And this film version is incredible because of course Paul Taswell.
00:14:19
Speaker
I mean, honestly. So i came into this, prejudiced did you have pride too ah not so much because i am watching this on my couch or actually on the floor in front of my couch uh in like sweatpants so that would be hilarious for me to be like I'm coming in full judgment.
00:14:44
Speaker
um I actually got a exposed to a lot of commentary about the film before watching it. Got exposed to. I was reading and like hearing people talk about um what the story is about.
00:14:58
Speaker
And i was like, that's interesting, especially at this time. It's very interesting to like when it came out was pretty, pretty timely for a lot of um emotions and a lot of things that are happening in the world.
00:15:11
Speaker
And I do want to go back really quick to you pointing out how much work shows like this create for people. And I think that that's such a cool thing that people definitely kind of just don't know or don't think about.
00:15:25
Speaker
Is it like when you see a show that's long running on something you're usually more drawn to the stories of the the performers who've been doing it for a really long time and how they might be going slowly crazy over time or they might like become even more proud of it and like love it a lot.
00:15:43
Speaker
um But like thinking about the actual like this the set workers, the the costume workers, like wardrobe, like all these people everywhere who have to be keeping all of it alive um in keeping the magic alive for a really long time. It's just like such a cool, ah cool thing. And also like, what a secure job.
00:16:04
Speaker
Like if you, if you get it, like yeah you're pretty, pretty set as long as you can do it. And as long as you want to do it, Yeah, I remember talking to a Draper who had been ah in New York for a long time with like a well-known ah costume workshop that i I think does not exist anymore. But she was saying that they had the contract for the bulk of the costumes for cats. And she's like, you know, people have all their feelings about cats, but that show kept that company alive for 20 years because yeah we were constantly making...
00:16:42
Speaker
suits for cats. It's like, you know what, you know exactly what your job is you know, everything about it. And like, you still have surprises, but you've come across those surprises before probably so that you can anticipate them.
00:16:55
Speaker
And like, solve stuff and like what a what a pro because you could also go work with like Cirque du Soleil after that you know there's like wholy places you can go because you've got such specific skills about specific things neat so okay so I'm so I've been waiting I've been waiting i just want to know thumbs up or thumbs down for the movie version of wicked as a whole experience I'm going to say thumbs up because I think that for me, this is how I needed
Intricate Costume Design in 'Wicked'
00:17:27
Speaker
to be introduced to this as a musical. I needed Cynthia Erevo and I needed um for things to be lingered on that you can't linger on.
00:17:39
Speaker
on stage because of like basically like the rules of theater and like how long you can have a show run for and you know it's happening in real time so the demands on those performers bodies and voices is is really happening in real time and you can't fix it in post and so um i That was a thing that was like another reason why I never wanted to go see it on stage unless I was like, I'd like to see this show is because I have a glass face. And even if it's only affecting like the person around me, I don't need to take away from someone's experience on stage because like there is kind of ah
00:18:18
Speaker
an inauthenticity that comes with musicals, ah depending on the musical, because you're supposed to be doing it so big so that you can reach the person in the back, back, back of the theater.
00:18:31
Speaker
And yeah for me, sometimes it means that I miss the the genuine part of the story because of the timing, having a rush by it. And because it's so big and so broad that some of those things like don't land on me unless they're really sad. you will land yeah And that's just my, my brain. um Yeah.
00:18:55
Speaker
And it's like, I would love to see, well, love is very strong. I, would ok I would love to see the stage costumes in an exhibit.
00:19:06
Speaker
i don't necessarily need to see them moving. I could see like a recorded version or I could see like photographs of that. And I think I would be equally satisfied. yeah But like seeing the stage costumes would be great because I did see Elphaba's costume when I went to the VNA a couple of years ago when they had a costume exhibit and it was incredible And I recommend anybody who's into costumes look for photographs of these costumes if you haven't seen them because they are so... like The original costume designer of the show, whose name?
00:19:42
Speaker
can't remember. sorry Susan Hilferty. Thank you so much for having that at your fingertips. um Susan Hilferty did this thing with those costumes where she made them so full of texture and so full of layered information.
00:20:00
Speaker
and so she took things that could be flat colors and made them far more interesting and far more alive. And that was like, so impressive and so interesting when the show first came out because people weren't expecting that, you know? And it's like you have in your head the the Wizard of Oz movie and you have like some people, their relationship with the costumes is more like Party City where it's like a flat item that is like, that's a cape. A cape is flat.
00:20:29
Speaker
But it's like, yeah I think that's also to take a slight aside to something that has nothing to do with this, Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness. People were obsessed with Doctor Strange's costume And that's because it had so much going on and you could see all the little details and like Elphaba, I think was that, but in black.
00:20:50
Speaker
And it was like, oh yeah, this, this witch silhouette can be so much more interesting and it can have, so much more of like a personal twist to it to make this person stand out as equally as a character like Galinda or Glinda, who is like so bright and so poofy and all of these things.
00:21:10
Speaker
yeah And this movie with Paul Toswell took that and took it even further for me. Cause like, I think yeah with the stage production Emerald city, ah it's pretty much like, is it mostly like greens?
00:21:25
Speaker
Like the color palette is like tight. It's sick yeah, it is a lot of green. They do carry over. So like in the original like Wizard of Oz book, everyone at in Emerald City wears green tinted glasses because not everything is as brilliant green As it appears. So they wear the glasses and it enhances everything and makes it more kind of vibrant and magical and whatever. Like gross gender glasses, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And they carry that into the stage production. so
00:22:05
Speaker
um It is very like there's it's green, but like everyone is still wearing the green glasses. They like brought that detail in and that kind of like adds that layer of meaning and.
00:22:20
Speaker
um you know understanding to the audience of like, yeah you know oh, maybe things not gonna... And it's also interesting um that in that scene, Glinda's costume is you yellow.
00:22:36
Speaker
It's this like light, lemony yellow. And I know that a lot of that in the Broadway production had to do with um copyright issues over the movie Glinda costume. They were not allowed to use...
00:22:51
Speaker
pink for a lot of her stuff because that was and wow that was a particular to the movie. In the book, she's not in pink. Right. um Like the Alice in Wonderland thing where everybody thinks that Alice in Wonderland is always wearing blue, but that's just a Disney thing.
00:23:07
Speaker
Absolutely. So I think there was some questionable copyright issues when they were doing the Broadway production about like how much pink could they actually use because that's not canon to the book.
00:23:20
Speaker
So obviously they did not have that issue in this movie version. I'm not really sure why, but there's an insane amount of pink in the movie. Not since Dolores Umbridge has been this much
Character Development Through Costumes
00:23:32
Speaker
pink. my And that's yeah that's a throwback to a million years ago.
00:23:35
Speaker
i love how color is approached in this design. There's so much commentary and because this is my first time encountering the story as a whole, cause I'd never finished the book and it's my first time watching any version of the musical.
00:23:55
Speaker
yeah All of my thoughts are not like fully fleshed out and other people have definitely thought so much and written it out on the internet. And I haven't even, scratch the surface yeah before deep diving into the costumes and how impactful they were.
00:24:13
Speaker
I really want to talk about some of the themes of the movie because those themes tie into the design so much. And um so I, like with, with our fascistic authoritarian turn in our country and there's,
00:24:31
Speaker
ah shock um there's like you know the 98 and how was it 96 or 98 but there's this divide that we're experiencing right now it's not a divide people have been using that word in a very obnoxious way we're seeing uh a reaction right now um to how people voted and specifically the reaction that I'm talking about is how white women voted in our last election and how many, ah black folks did not vote that way and yeah are resting, are prioritizing rest and community support and mutual aid at this time and kind of saying, you know what? You made this mess.
00:25:18
Speaker
Yeah. You brought us here, your ancestors, your family brought us here over time. We have done so much heavy lifting. We have done so much for you where you have said that you're lifting us up, but really you're lifting us in front of you so that we take the flack so that we are representative of something for you. And then you just do this to us when it's convenient to you. Yeah.
00:25:42
Speaker
And that is something that that's the lens that I have seen the conversation about this movie um come from, because that's, those are the voices that I've been listening to.
00:25:53
Speaker
And so there's so, so, so many layers, so much of that, of it's just, there's so fricking much in this about not just that conversation, yeah,
00:26:06
Speaker
um so many different things that it was, I felt all the powerfulness of that and that the actresses in our lead roles were so good and so well cast and like did such a great job.
00:26:20
Speaker
But then to kind of like, not in a lazy way, but because it's the first time I saw it and I just finished watching it an hour ago. So like my thoughts aren't super straight. I think it's more appropriate for me to like really hone in on the costume effects and and like acknowledge all of the bigger messages and be like the fascism, the the the restriction of free speech, like all of these things that are happening in here are just like so powerful and so timely that it was like, oof, there are a lot of feelings that are not just like
00:26:52
Speaker
about me, but about like, we're seeing that in real time macro. And yeah what I want to talk about to like reel it into costumes is have you been introduced to the idea ah
00:27:10
Speaker
ah color? Well, it's not, it's like a kind of like a ah phobia of color and conversation about that in fashion and what that kind of means politically.
00:27:23
Speaker
Are we talking about the like trend of these like sad beige mom kind of things? Chromophobia is kind of what it's called. And have you like done any reading on that?
00:27:35
Speaker
I haven't in terms of like what it actually means. I've noticed it happening. Yeah. And but I don't I haven't read anything about like origin or context just that I've noticed it happening.
00:27:49
Speaker
So depending on kind of like your your cultural background, you have different relationships to color, right? And then there's like um relationships to color that are outside of you and your culture and are kind of like what are told to be fashionable.
00:28:03
Speaker
And right now there's a lot of beige and a lot of grays and like minimalism and like... clean girl aesthetic clean girl which is ah very hot topic because that's stolen from other cultures that were made fun of and now that it's being represented by certain people now it's cool and fashionable so weird how that happened It's so weird how that happens, how so much is tied to white supremacy.
00:28:29
Speaker
And I want to bring that in because chromophobia is tied so tightly to white supremacy because so many dyes and so many colors came from places that the European empire, like the English empire,
00:28:44
Speaker
um invaded and stole and they wanted to control who had access to color. And like when you see like Indian clothing and there's so much like traditional clothing, there's so much color.
00:28:55
Speaker
There's so many patterns. There's so much happening. When you see African clothing, there's so many colors, there's so much happening. And there's so much that is political that goes into that, how that happened, how these things grew to be, but you're told that,
00:29:11
Speaker
at least here that like the more colorful you are, the less restrained you are. And so it's like the less you can be taken seriously. Yeah. And that's suits, I feel like tame suits, not bright suits, tame suits have been so acceptable. And so much the, the, the fashion for men's fashion in the West for so long is because it's been influenced by like, you know, empire. Yeah.
00:29:40
Speaker
That's how you get taken seriously. That's how you yeah show that you that you have power, that you are responsible and smart and blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's ridiculous because like color is amazing. And like I get overwhelmed by color, which is I have tons of color in my home, but it's like very deliberate. I don't have like super, super bright colors because it will like over just oversaturate.
00:30:04
Speaker
But um that's my preference. but What I love is that we are getting... these designers who are refuting that expectation.
00:30:19
Speaker
And sometimes it's happening in fantasy, but we've been having also, um some like historically based things that are having this response where it's like yeah the joy in color And just the reality that it existed. like It's the reality that it existed.
00:30:37
Speaker
I love like natural fibers that that have like some dye, but you know are like you know neutral colors. I love those things too. But yeah this this idea that all fantasy should be influenced by medieval or like quiet colors and like natural neutral fibers...
00:30:56
Speaker
um that kind of view shouldn't, shouldn't be for everything. And like, this is a fantasy that is like so fantastical that you have to make it like over the top. And the fact that Wizard of Oz, the film already set the bar, you know, like yeah for being super bright and all that stuff, you just can go to space.
00:31:16
Speaker
But I love that even in something like the Emerald City, It's not just limited to greens. The color palette opens up on either side so that we get all of these complimentary colors and tones and we get like so much happening. And throughout the whole film, there's there's not and anything that's like super limited.
00:31:40
Speaker
in like how yeah it's constructed and I think that that is like so beautiful because they're my notes about these costumes are actually pretty sparse because I was so busy looking that like my and I also was holding a cat but like There's just constantly so much happening and there's no trying to be limited by like a historical understanding of like, oh, well, we're trying to like work off of this silhouette. So we have to be limited to this or that or the other thing.
00:32:06
Speaker
Like even Elphaba is like, you know, her, her black, know, Like we see her in so many different versions of that. And each version has so many different textiles that are a part of it to build something that has so much interest and texture and like pink, you bringing that up with Galinda.
00:32:31
Speaker
Yeah. There's so many different kinds of pink. They're like in so many different textures and like um the school uniforms. How about that? Oh, my God. okay So do you follow Paul Tazwell on Instagram?
00:32:47
Speaker
I don't. Okay. you Please stop what you're doing. I'm typing Paul Tazewell. ah He posted a lot ah highlighting people who made the costumes for this movie, which I love and appreciate.
00:33:06
Speaker
ah And that he, you know, obviously he knows people are interested and he's like highlighting the people that made it happen with him, which is wonderful. But he posted a video recently the...
00:33:20
Speaker
the process of creating the textiles for the school uniforms because they have these um they're striped and they're the stripes are like constantly like shifting direction and like changing and they're like pinstriped but they're like there's so much going on with them and I spent so much time looking at them when I saw the movie in the theater just like trying to figure out what was happening and he posted a video that all of those pinstripes were embroidered onto the fabric so they could control where there were shifts in the lines of the pinstripes so that obviously some of the shaping could be done through tailoring and draping and and construction of the actual garments, but they could actually have like a shift in
00:34:17
Speaker
in the direction of the pinstripes without having to cut and rotate the fabric. um And that was something that I never even considered doing. And it was just that beautiful to see.
00:34:29
Speaker
Like what a cool way to make what you want happen that also removes some of the struggle from forger Sorry, Echo. We're just fighting a silent battle on mute.
00:34:44
Speaker
It was amazing because it was like, oh yeah, of course. You just create the textile that you want because you couldn't find it. And obviously you need so much of it because everybody is wearing this uniform. I mean, i didn't read buddy everybody and i didn't count how many people, but there's a lot of people. And everyone has something different.
00:35:05
Speaker
going on like no linda's version is in pink and like i loved that she has this like pleated like underskirt and like i just i mean come on i just like love it so much and like bow and yang has like half of a pleated skirt that goes over his like short is he's like wearing short like capris yeah and like I just there's there's you could be overwhelmed by having um the responsibility to costume so many people
00:35:42
Speaker
at something where they're expected to look tied together. You could be overwhelmed by that. But this was such like a unique and cool way to make so many of the same thing be actually very different on on every single person because every single person had something that they were bringing to it.
00:36:00
Speaker
Like Bach, from Munchkinland and other students from Munchkinland had these really, really great knit vests that were in orange and blue. And each person had a different pattern knit into it.
00:36:16
Speaker
It's like wavy stripes. Yeah, like different shapes of waves and all these different things. And like the wigs. Oh my God. Yeah.
00:36:28
Speaker
what a cool opportunity to work on a wig project because like these were madame morrible's wig i'm so sorry this is like so ah jumping all over the place but like at least we're like we're in one place i'll keep it constrained to school for right now yeah we're at shiz university at we're at the university that's where we are in case you needed to know we're gonna go all over the place Okay, Michelle Yeoh just has such an amazing career. So every time I see her, I know going to be very delighted by what I'm seeing. And this was no no miss for me. It was an absolute hit.
00:37:03
Speaker
Because like Madame Morrible's first costume that she's wearing, which is kind of like a... In some lights, ah it's sort of gold, but it feels a little bit more bronze. Like, it's warmer. And it's, like, a bronze and blue. And there's this standing collar that's happening.
00:37:19
Speaker
And her, like, wig with the white waves. Yeah. And where you can, like, see through them at certain You can see through them because they're, like, so, like, flat-pressed. So sculpted. And, like, sculpted.
00:37:32
Speaker
i I want this is yet another project where I really do want to see some of these things up close because there is so much detail and we do get to spend some time with Madame Morrible on this because she doesn't just wear it once but like this this robe that she's wearing its like so great and has a couple different ones like she has clearly she has like a closet at home of like gorgeous like wizard robe after gorgeous wizard robe that are like in a theme but different that she can just like snatch one out of the closet every day her character always has these collars that are like collars are a big thing in here collars and hemlines are are amazingly used and also like sleeves like there is no part of any garment that
00:38:27
Speaker
That is just straightforward all the way through. no part. yeah Because like, there are all of these Glinda has when she announces that she's going to be here after Glinda, she's wearing this little jacket.
00:38:43
Speaker
That's a pink jacket. And the hemline on that is so sculpted. And it is like a curve that is reflected by her collar going the opposite direction.
00:38:56
Speaker
And then her sleeves on that, like right at the head of the sleeve, there's these inserts that are transparent and puffy and gathered and like,
00:39:08
Speaker
there's There's just every single character kind of has ah a track, a themed track that follows them no matter what they're wearing throughout the movie.
00:39:18
Speaker
And like every time we see Galinda, she's always got like... We understand that she has a vast wardrobe and we are not failed because every time we see her, there's something. something new. Going on.
00:39:32
Speaker
And like she has at school, she has this like night robe with these like. Oh my God. Like rosettes that are like bigger than her head. Like pleated rosettes that are and like basically these like shoulder pauldrons. Like they're almost like armor shapes. And then that like are reflected all over the room yeah it's just there's so much joy i feel yeah in how these things were designed like it i hope that this was because we saw like the we saw cynthia and ariana grande um on their press tour and that that's like legendary now everybody's holding yeah space
00:40:16
Speaker
we We are clutching our fingers with our two fingers and just like the, the emotions that were into that. I just hope that this was constructing these costumes. I hope was a joyful enterprise while being work. Sure. But that it didn't feel like ah a drag in any way, shape or form because there was so many variations on a theme in every single set of costumes And like there were so many things where folks were able to take real care in how, you know, thing should be assembled because –
00:40:52
Speaker
it's going to be seen super close on film. So it's nice. Yeah. Those things were given care, but it's just like, I don't know. Having watched it, it's just so stinking. It's overwhelming. So like to, to when we open the movie, basically we get that, that kind of wizard of Oz moment of Glinda coming down in the bubble to Munchkin land that we see in wizard of Oz.
00:41:18
Speaker
um But this one, she's coming to announce that the Wicked Witch is dead. That dress is called the bubble dress because she's literally floating in a bubble. um So I watched a behind the scenes special ah just about all the aspects of making the movie ah right before this recording.
00:41:38
Speaker
It showed a shot of the workroom where they were constructing the bubble dress. And um just in case anyone's not sure about the scale of this movie, there were...
00:41:53
Speaker
Five in the frame that were being made at the same time. So we had, they had like a mock-up and there were mannequins, like doubles of the mannequin, like all around the room. And there were five different bubble dresses that were all completed for that one scene.
00:42:13
Speaker
So just to, that's one dress in this movie. So just to like, make people aware of like the scale of the production and that dress, um there was like a little moment where you see like Ariana trying it on and like the Draper is like with her and Paul is there.
00:42:34
Speaker
And it's constructed of these like big, like swooping layers of different, textures and organzas and everything. There were 15 cones. They referred to them as cones that were the individual pieces of the skirt that, and apparently the, the Draper constructed the pattern piece using the Fibonacci curve principle.
00:43:04
Speaker
This was a theme That showed up a couple times. Because like it also shows up when we get the like drop in with Kristen Chenoweth and Adina Mazel in like the stage production about the Wiz in Emerald City.
00:43:20
Speaker
And their entire costumes are kind of constructed with like a similar base. Just not as wide as Galinda's bubble dress. yeah And I just like...
00:43:35
Speaker
Every time I see something that's constructed this way, there's, if you think, if you're familiar with fabric and textiles, think about organza, think about these lightweight fabrics and how light and how thin they are. So like if you take a piece, cut it, let's say into a cone shape and then fold it in half, you're just doubling it.
Expressing Identity Through Elphaba's Costumes
00:43:58
Speaker
That's right. It it doesn't mean that it's now taking up a ton more space because it's so lightweight.
00:44:04
Speaker
So in order to achieve, something as massive as galinda's gown that takes a lot of math and a lot of layer layer layer one after the other like yeah that's that's going to take a while for for however many team members are assigned to work on those five gowns right that's going to take a hot minute to make those Yeah, and like the whole bodice is hand-beating.
00:44:38
Speaker
there were like layers of the skirt that were hand-foiled to make the bubble pattern because like the visual theme of Glinda's costumes throughout the movie is air and bubble. And so everything is just these...
00:44:54
Speaker
these impossibly light delicate fabrics and to get the structure and the volume yeah just like the amount of yardage that was needed yardage just per what like that even like like you said like the sort of like negligee robe thing i mean it's big It's not got a big structure underneath, but she can like grab that skirt and like pull it up on each side pretty high. And there's just a lot of fabric, but that one is so soft that it all just like hangs.
00:45:32
Speaker
It depends, like because for a project like this too, sure, you can like buy fabrics and then manipulate them without... making rosettes from scratch. But I'm going to assume that potentially they made those rosettes from scratch, which means that the yardage for that is exponentially more massive. Because my goodness, like that's just... Everywhere you look in any film, any any stage production, anything, you're looking at people's work.
00:46:00
Speaker
But something like this is an opportunity to see not only people's work, but people's talent, because like their, their skills beyond talent, even like their, their heightened skills and, and from the top down, because like wigs.
00:46:18
Speaker
Yeah. And like ah costumes. Yeah. Cause like, yeah, there is so much time. That's going into this. And I didn't even look to see how much production time they had to, to build all these things, but it it was not just a matter of weeks.
00:46:33
Speaker
It was no, no. Yeah. Yeah. And the shoes, all of custom shoes, right. so the shoes. And it's like, you know, for stage production, you're like, okay, these are our sources for like ball, ballroom dancing shoes when we have somebody who needs to dance and we want them to look a certain way so we can choose, you know, our shoes, but somebody else can also access those things.
00:46:56
Speaker
Cause that's a company that's like selling, To anybody who goes to their website. And then these things you're like, okay, we've got these people who are not necessarily professional dancers, but like they're not dancer dancers. They dance.
00:47:10
Speaker
um Yeah. For like stage, their stage career. They're not solely dancers, but they can do it. But we definitely need something that they can dance in. So we're going to have to test a bunch of things and then get to the right arch, the right, you know, heel style, the right toe box.
00:47:27
Speaker
And then we're going to like custom, like put all this other stuff on it And like i read, love I know like one of the interviews um that I read or um saw, I can't remember, but it was ah Cynthia talking about how,
00:47:48
Speaker
In her conversation with Paul Taswell in like developing the character, she requested that Elphaba's shoes get taller as we go throughout the movie because that was like an important like character journey.
00:48:07
Speaker
for her and she was like it was so wonderful to work with someone who like honored that request and like did that with me and wanted to collaborate that way and i think that you can see that the evidence is in the film that that kind of spirit of filmmaking was what happened here So it's just wonderful to see everyone working together on it and not like one person being like, I need this and I don't care what you think.
00:48:43
Speaker
Should we say the word? The big C word? Oh, no. Elaboration. Oh, God. even say it. And how good it can be. Collaboration.
00:48:54
Speaker
And like everyone can feel good about what they're doing. And proud of it. And invested in it. And putting their best in. And not just being used. But like being a part of.
00:49:06
Speaker
able to bring their are talent, but also able to recognize the talent that everyone else is bringing and like understand that we can work together for a shared goal and not have to be this like ego game where someone has to be right because they want to be right.
00:49:26
Speaker
Isn't that wonderful? Isn't that what we're all hoping for? i mean, what a dream. I know. Like what a dream. What a dream project to work on. i mean, we could, it would, I think it would take us way beyond how much we normally record to like go scene by scene, look by Yeah, I don't, I don't think we can. It's not possible. And I let's, let me see. What's, what's one costume that you're like, we cannot end this recording without talking about it. What's one for you that we haven't talked about yet?
00:49:57
Speaker
It's actually not going to blow your mind. But I want to talk about it. Okay. So Elphaba's skin color is yeah such a significant thing, right?
00:50:08
Speaker
And in this case, the way that I saw it, there's the way that it was utilized in this story is basically to represent to me, dark skinned black women.
00:50:22
Speaker
Versus, because there's early on, there's the colorism like comment that's very, very out there, put out there on the table, which is like, and here's my sister Nessa who has an acceptable skin color.
00:50:34
Speaker
And so playing with that and playing with different hair texture and all of these different things and representing that and having people work with that
00:50:51
Speaker
in a way that highlights the subtleties that people without that attribute would not necessarily pick up. I hope but what I'm saying is making sense.
00:51:03
Speaker
It's just like so stunning. And and of course it's, you know, her skin is green. So it's even a different tone there. Her, we talked about Galinda's night negligee robe situation with the rosettes.
00:51:18
Speaker
For me, one of the most stunning, there are so many stunning pieces, but there's so much beyond just like the impact. It's Elphaba's night froat, her frock coat robe, which I would love one of.
00:51:34
Speaker
Oh my God. Because
00:51:38
Speaker
it it highlights the subtleties in Elphaba. It's not this stark black that really, really pops the green of her skin.
00:51:50
Speaker
It's this softer set of colors that around her neck on the lapel has reds that are complimentary to her skin tone that pull out the warmth in her hair, that pull out the warmth in her eyes and like just pop the subtleties in like her cheeks, you know?
00:52:14
Speaker
And so it's like, and then she has the pink rose that like softens her even more. But it's so subtle because so much we see her in white and black, white and black, such stark colors. But this is like a vulnerable piece for her where she is comfortable because she's wearing it in her room. She's wearing it at night.
00:52:37
Speaker
And she's like meant to be warm and cozy in it, but it's not necessarily a garment that's meant for her to wear in public. And so she doesn't have to be wearing this like armor that is stark.
00:52:50
Speaker
And so it's like, I just loved how that was put in there and that it was like such a loving little detail. I love it so much. What about you? Yeah. Well, the i'll I'll reveal mine, but i I did want to add
Personal Reflections on 'Wicked'
00:53:05
Speaker
the detail. Something that I wasn't sure about when I saw the movie the first time, but was absolutely confirmed by watching The Making Of, is that they that Cynthia Erivo sat there in the makeup chair and got painted green every day. yeah um To know that it was important to her to sit in the makeup chair and get painted green.
00:53:27
Speaker
And that she did it for herself and also for like her fellow actors that are having to react to the way that she looks and like wanting to have that realism.
00:53:40
Speaker
yeah And that like putting that work in for, for the filming was, I think a really emblematic way of like how this film happened that like everyone cared about everything on it. And everybody cared about,
00:53:57
Speaker
the different stories that were being told. Everybody cared about every message that was happening. Like the, the, the disability, the ableism, the, the colorism, the the racism, the fear baiting, the privilege that was on display, like all of these different things, everybody cared very much about creating something that people could see and you could have the option to disappear into the fantasy of it, but you could see it as a reflection. You could see the same way that good science fiction, ah you usually are seeing it reflect what's happening
00:54:37
Speaker
in the time that it's being created um and exploring that this, everybody cared about that with this. It doesn't feel like there were any cheap shots and it felt like the actors, yeah, every, everybody was bringing a genuine, I want to support this. I want to do what I can with my skills and my, my abilities to, to support this.
00:54:58
Speaker
And it's just like, you could, there's just so many little details everywhere in every little thing Yeah. Yeah.
00:55:09
Speaker
The design of it is just so, so damn good. Yeah. And like, I did skip some songs. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm not like, I was a wicked hater and now I'm a wicked lover. Like, no, I sacrificed some of the storytelling so that I could skip through some of the songs.
00:55:28
Speaker
um Like, honestly, I think if you were going to skip, I mean, people, please don't hate me. If you're going to skip anything in this movie, I would say the songs are like the number one thing because the story in the movie doesn't really happen in the songs in this version because the stage production.
00:55:48
Speaker
Yeah. It doesn't have the depth of the story. Like the book ah very political. It's very political. yeah, That's not the main focus of the stage production. It's more about just the relationship between Elphaba and Glinda because and you only have a couple hours to try to tell the story. Yeah.
00:56:11
Speaker
And so I felt that the politicists the political additions from the book and the casting in this version made it just added so many more dimensions it.
00:56:25
Speaker
Because like, yeah, there's, there are so many things that are being hit in the first one. And there's even more with this version. And with this version, it felt ah more accessible for me.
00:56:39
Speaker
And so like ah the, of course the frosting on top is all of this design. Like I do, I recommend that anybody watch this because I think it's, it's a good place to start with a lot of conversations. Like it's a good way to talk about a lot of real things and you can use it as like a If we look at it with this character and how she's treated here or there and how she um takes this hat, which we have to talk about her hat, Elphaba. We have to talk about her witch hat.
00:57:13
Speaker
yeah She takes this hat that was given to her as a joke that was given to her to make her look like a joke by Glinda And she takes it and she puts it on and she's like, okay.
00:57:24
Speaker
And then she's immediately mocked and frozen out and like all of these things. And in that she has this dance scene, right? And this is the one where everybody was holding space. um And she puts the hat on again.
00:57:39
Speaker
yeah Like she takes it off, but she puts it on again, even when she understands, okay, it was given to me. As a joke, you look silly to make me look stupid. And I don't care. And Galinda sees what she's done and feels sorry for it. And so like starts to dance with her and seeing their, their, the interplay between their costumes, the interplay beneath between their silhouettes and like how the textures are different and how everything just works together. The choreography of that was great.
00:58:10
Speaker
Um, But this hat that Elphaba claims as her own, and then it becomes a symbol of love, like as they become best friends.
00:58:22
Speaker
And they're like, you know, as they basically fall in love with each other, platonically or, ah you know, otherwise, like they they love each other. but it's a very complex, because of course, there's so much talk about with like Galinda and the role that she performs.
00:58:36
Speaker
and stupid It was so funny to me to see people that like didn't know anything about the show be like, oh my god, Glinda's the bad guy?
00:58:49
Speaker
Like... But she's pretty and pink and blonde and perky and popular. she's And I feel like there's a lot of people who are like, yeah of course she's going to be the bad guy. Of course.
00:59:04
Speaker
Because as soon as you start to see that everybody is always giving her exactly what she wants and she never has to fight for it. She just goes, huh. Yeah, she's a master manipulator. like Any good deed if you want to that she does throughout most of this movie is like an accident that is like incidental to her also getting what she wants.
00:59:27
Speaker
Accident, yeah. yeah And it's like the reason why see sees what she's done to Elphaba is that Elphaba has to go to Madame Morrible After el ah Galinda has arranged for these two different people to go on a date, Bach and Nessa, because she's like, well, us perfect people have to be together. And then you other people have to be together.
00:59:56
Speaker
yeah And when that gets back to Elphaba... At first, she's going to say something and Nessa cuts her off and says, I'm thankful to Galinda for doing this because it's what I deserve.
01:00:07
Speaker
But it's not like ah I'm fighting for this because it's what I deserve and what I'm owed. It's a, I'm different. So I guess this is all I deserve. It's so complex.
Character Dynamics in 'Wicked': Glinda and Elphaba
01:00:19
Speaker
Nessa sucks only based on what I know now. And i I understand that. And I also want to say, I see the complexity of the the conversation of ableism that the reason why Nessa is like running to protect her sister is because it also frustrates her that her sister feels like she has to protect her and that Nessa can't protect herself. I understand all of those layers, but it's yeah so frustrating to watch her side with and blame Like side with other people and blame Elphaba for being Elphaba. For trying to be there for her.
01:00:55
Speaker
For trying to be there for her and also just like never for us to see in part one siding with her sister is like, yeah God damn it, Nassaf. So like that sucks.
01:01:06
Speaker
But Galinda is such a topic of conversation that yeah, Elphaba had to get her invited into this one-on-one sorcery prep program and give her what she's always wanted.
01:01:23
Speaker
And to basically reflect on her like, And now I've given you something. And then all of a sudden she's... But I think that that is also like in a way Glinda's village villain origin story in this movie being humiliated by her lack of talent like she sees Elphaba actually having the talent to get what she yeah to get what Glinda wants out of this educational experience and she lets that just totally corrupt any like good heart she might have and it like the moment when she finds out
01:02:15
Speaker
That it's due to Elphaba that she's going to get to like train with Madame Morrible. It doesn't feel like fat is good. it doesn't feel good. and And that's why Elphaba did it.
01:02:25
Speaker
Because Elphaba did it and she's like, this person who I consider to be less than me has what I want and is like sort of in her mind, like using like charity to give me what I want. And I hate that. And that's why Elphaba did it.
01:02:42
Speaker
Because Nessa told Elphaba, well, Galinda arranged, you know, like gave me this. And Elphaba can see how shitty that is. And so she goes and she gets Galinda the thing that Galinda wants most.
01:02:57
Speaker
And it's like, how does it feel to be condescended to? How does it like it's she doesn't confront her that way. Basically, you can choose how you respond to this, but it doesn't feel good when somebody gives you something out of pity instead of seeing you.
01:03:13
Speaker
And letting you work for it, letting you try, um just out of pity. Like, well, I guess you can have this. like And also, like, you're never going to get this without me.
01:03:25
Speaker
Like, she's never, was never going to get to study with Madame Morrible without Elba. you become because of this moment, you will always owe it to me. But that scene plays out in my favorite dress in the movie, which is the Glinda Oz Dust ballroom dress, which as soon as I saw that, I was like, well...
01:03:49
Speaker
I mean, we cannot just go home. We've seen the best thing that this movie has to offer, which is this dress that looks like, I don't know, like a tropical fish or like a floral tree. does look like tropical fish. That's exactly it. It's just like, it's so flowy, but it's like...
01:04:06
Speaker
It's kind of one of the darker things that we see her in. Like it has darker pieces. It's like hot pink and like gold and orange. and um I don't know exactly what it is, but there's something in my brain that just like I can't, like I am so...
01:04:26
Speaker
obsessed with that outfit. I love it so much. I don't even have anything to say about it. Just yeah love. heart Heart emoji. Heart eyes bugging out of my head. i love it.
01:04:37
Speaker
I mean, there are so many pieces that are like favorites for sure. yeah And yeah I mean, all of Madame Morrible's stuff. I loved the hairdressers in the Emerald City. They had something very spectacular going on.
01:04:50
Speaker
But yeah, but Yeah, I mean, i i enjoyed this in a way that I did not expect to. Oh, back to Elphaba's hat. There was something that we had to talk about with that.
01:05:05
Speaker
So when Bowen Yang's character pulls out the hat, it's a collapsible hat, right? Right. Is it is it Yeah. Like, think so.
01:05:16
Speaker
so he like pops it up or something in a variety article about this. um Paul Tasmal had to create and make that accordion style witch hat.
01:05:27
Speaker
And he said the time the amount of time and effort and money it took to create a folding witch hat created a little panic. And then there's another version that is not collapsible that they built.
01:05:38
Speaker
And that's a little bit less panic inducing, I guess. But I kind of god love the idea that this like collapsible hat, which seems so small, but of course it's so important because it's such an important part of the iconic look yeah that that would cause like kerfuffle is like so funny.
01:05:56
Speaker
And I, I would love to know more about that because it's like, how What did you end up making it out of that made it a struggle to make this folding thing?
01:06:11
Speaker
Technically speaking, how how oh do, how did that yeah that you saw stress in that? And like money and all of these other things. Like, you know, cause it's such a small item that it's like, Oh, I want to know.
01:06:28
Speaker
um But I love that, that they were like, shit. Like, Oh God, no we have all of these masters things that we're making. And then this hat is like, that's the, that's the, the camel that broke our, this is the the pin that broke our back. No, it's the camel that broke our back.
01:06:45
Speaker
oh Yeah. It was kind of a camel. Yeah. I think that um this episode is going to be, if anybody, wasn't interested. I know that like folks go like on mass for certain things. And this is one of those that has like a big, big, big following, but just in case there's anybody out there that hasn't been interested, wasn't interested.
01:07:06
Speaker
I suggest watching this movie because of the yeah themes and all are, I think very important. And I think it's a very comforting story for those who have been saying this shit all along.
01:07:22
Speaker
yeah And get to walk with Cynthia Erivo's performance and feel like this story is being told from the perspective of someone who has experienced those things.
01:07:33
Speaker
And, you know, the act, the actress herself, like, I believe was the one who advocated for the nails. Yeah. And like really put in these details. So, so lovingly to tell this perspective, this story.
01:07:48
Speaker
Genuinely. And um I also feel like it's just such a spectacle and like such a well done spectacle like with all the costumes and everything that I think it's worth watching for that alone.
01:08:03
Speaker
um Yeah. i Yeah. I think it's like, obviously it was very successful in theaters. So i was I was skeptical about the fact that like part one is longer than the entire like stage musical.
01:08:18
Speaker
and I was like, oh, what is going to be going on in this movie? But I was very happy to see more time and like attention and nuance given to the political themes that are present in the book because that was something that like I mean it's been over 20 years since I read the book I've not revisited it so I'm remembering what I remember ok I know like me as a 16 year old reading that book like um but I do remember the feeling of seeing it on stage and being like
01:09:00
Speaker
Oh, okay. So like they took all of that and like condensed that down into like two minutes or like they took all of these things and kind of hinted at it, but they didn't like you can't really...
01:09:14
Speaker
take like a 400 page book about the political machinations of Oz and turn it into a Broadway musical without losing something. So I, yeah, I, I'm so glad that I waited to experience it without having read the book first this way for all of those extra yeah layers and all of those things and not to, not to belittle the stage production, but I think it wasn't, it wasn't going to, it's just different.
01:09:39
Speaker
Yeah, it was just different. And I think that some of those differences, it was like, I can see that that's just not for me. That's okay. And this one, I feel like it's it's got so much expansion that for, it's really cool to see something having come from it with like a...
01:09:57
Speaker
pass, that now it's like, okay, there's so many different layers. And this is such a great example of what theater can do. It's a great example of what theater can become and expand into and like cinema, what cinema can be, what movies can be and what it can do. yeah And um just story.
01:10:15
Speaker
And it's such a great example of what costume can do. Oh my God. It's amazing when it's like, wow, when you really... give it the time and attention and like budget and like consideration and like hire someone as brilliant as Paul Taswell and let him do his thing with the movie and collaborate with everyone. Like it's,
01:10:43
Speaker
The kind of thing that makes you want to keep doing this work because you're like, this is what we all aspire to do. This is what we aspire to make. It's really crazy how when in the world it's like, I don't know if I want to do this job anymore.
01:10:57
Speaker
And then something like this comes along and it's like, God damn it. Yeah, working know one like any level on ah on a gig like this. would be such satisfying work. And I feel like that's what I'm always in pursuit of is something that feels satisfying because I think that excitement is a fleeting thing and it's not something that you, it's something to lead you somewhere, but it's not something to want to to bet on the whole experience.
01:11:20
Speaker
And it was exciting to look on IMDB. And first of all, it took three business days to scroll through the visual department, but yeah like to get to the to the costume and wardrobe department and to have to scroll,
01:11:34
Speaker
for maybe not three business days, but at least a half a business day, three quarters of a business day, and see all those names was like, yes, yes, we're being documented. these These people are being documented put on IMDb and not just like, oh, that was to an unnamed costume house that did all this labor. right like right Maybe there are unnamed costume houses, but at least ah bunch of bunch of bunch of people are listed for all the contributions for all the roles that they performed to do something like this it feels like any of these garments that were being made there's there's fun opportunities for problem solving like none of it seems like it's just like close your eyes robotic work like it feels like everything requires each person each craftsperson who was brought in
01:12:24
Speaker
to have to creatively apply their craft to make the design real instead of be be robotic about it. And that's like, like oh oh, it's like, it's never like, there's nothing, absolutely no garment in this movie is like, oh, it's just a shirt or like, oh, it's just socks or like, there's one nothing like that in the movie. Not one. Yeah.
01:12:46
Speaker
And that is really incredible because of course you can take stuff from other places that have already been made and then add them by layer or cut them up or chop them up or whatever.
01:12:58
Speaker
And if that's, if any of this was like preexisting, then those things that were chosen or shopped for or rented or whatever, those were very well chosen, but it's, there's so much in it that is unique to this world.
01:13:11
Speaker
And altered, if not already existing. Just the fact that like every caller has something going on is... I know. Like such a clever film thing to do, because of course you're going to be seeing people more often than not. Absolutely. Yeah. You want have that frame. Yeah. But like...
01:13:29
Speaker
that there is no boring lapel or color on anything is like oh man wow i know but every single school uniform is like got a different detail and like every single like a version of alphabet in all black is different and changes and wow and i was like i I loved it when they were doing it with Wednesday with school uniforms where Wednesday has her uniform and everybody else has their uniform.
01:14:00
Speaker
And then I love to see that blowing outward even more and like the the all black. Yeah, Elphaba just having so many different things going on so that she has...
01:14:13
Speaker
It's it's a to get like deep and I might be hit or miss, but like costume wise, I love what costumes say about characters. Yes.
01:14:25
Speaker
And like Elphaba with her wearing mostly all black or with like a little bit of white here and there. I love that it's a visual representation characters.
01:14:39
Speaker
this is what the world has reduced me to This is all that I've been given, but I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want with it. And I'm going make it mine. And that's why all of the textures and all of those things, the preciousness that she puts into everything that she wears means so much more is that her world was like reduced from the outside, but that doesn't have to be what she carries.
01:15:02
Speaker
And then for her cloak that galinda gives her at the very oh my god to be this kind of like logic defying piece of fabric that like seems to expand and shrink like yeah you're like how big is this it is the size of my imagination This massive shape behind her.
01:15:22
Speaker
And it's it's just like, ugh. and was just Okay. Everything has meaning. There's a moment in the behind the scenes where they show a clip of of Cynthia's, one of her auditions for the movie where she's like in a rehearsal room and she's singing Defying Gravity and she's holding a blue and white plastic broom and she's got like an orange towel draped over her shoulders and she is just like belting her face off and it was like the
01:16:01
Speaker
Talent that she's bringing to the movie is like the same in like this rehearsal room with a towel and a plastic broom as it is in the movie because she's bringing all her skills.
01:16:12
Speaker
I don't think she performs at 25%. No, I don't think i don't think i don't think she's physically capable. Full 100. Right. But just seeing the the way that like the costume can just enhance that moment.
01:16:31
Speaker
absolutely. Is... I mean, like, it's so it's like that that's why we do what we do, because like the the actors in the rehearsal room can give you amazing, stunning performance. And we just want to like push it, add on to it and like be part of what and just like give the audience that extra bit of story that we can do.
01:16:56
Speaker
And give the actor that extra layer of protection. in that well maybe not protection, but also like that tool to confirm that what they're working on is part of this thing that everyone is contributing to and that this is going to help you.
01:17:14
Speaker
yeah Even further with like what yeah what work you're doing. And you can really see that with every single character because they're they're doing the thing, which is not being themselves.
01:17:28
Speaker
They are being the character.
Concluding Thoughts and Next Episode Preview
01:17:31
Speaker
And like, even though Galinda's two school friends are, I guess there they didn't really have very many lines written for them. Most of what they say is improv'd.
01:17:42
Speaker
um Yeah. And they're not really in the stage production. They're in the book. Yeah. And so it's like they get these opportunities to say and do like great stuff. But it's not necessarily that I'm like, oh, that's Bowen Yang.
01:17:56
Speaker
But I'm also like, that is Bowen Yang. like Right. He's like unleashed and can can see where he needs to go in this scene. But like with Galinda, I'm like, that's Galinda. And it's Ariana Grande performing Galinda.
01:18:10
Speaker
Because yeah like the way that she moves is informed by what she's wearing. And the same with Elphaba. And Oz is like such a shitty little showman. Yeah.
01:18:26
Speaker
like little tap shoes you know what a perfect choice yeah ah to have jeff goldblum play that part but oh my god what a wild choice so i i am looking forward to the second part because i want to see how else they flesh out the world with yeah these costumes and like we didn't even talk about jonathan bailey as fiero Which I feel like is kind of right for his character. It's fine. He's the himbo. like And everything he's wearing is like just to to perfectly suit him. and Yeah, i it is. It's just perfect. yeah
01:19:03
Speaker
I had a great time watching this. And so I'm glad that this version exists and that I got to watch it. So thank you for suggesting it for the season. Yay.
01:19:15
Speaker
And I hope if anyone, like you said, if anyone out there is sort of like, Wicked is not really for me. I'm not really like a musical person. That's just not my bag. Like, I think there's something that could be enjoyed for anybody the movie.
01:19:27
Speaker
It might not be your favorite movie ever afterwards. It might not be your favorite movie ever. But I think that there's something for anybody to take away from. And especially now that it's not just in theaters, you can skip past some of those songs.
01:19:39
Speaker
And still be affected by the story without yeah having to... listen to the all I most of the songs. I just sped through.
01:19:52
Speaker
ah Yeah. That's all right. Okay. That was for for good or bad. That was wicked. that was it. Thank you for joining us for this episode.
01:20:05
Speaker
ah Please join us again next week if you are so inclined. We will be talking about the Ewan McGregor... film Big Fish, which has been a very long time since I have seen that movie. So I have sort of like vague recollection of what is in it and kind of what it's about. But um I think it's going to be really a good one to revisit in
01:20:36
Speaker
this context because I don't think I've seen it since I started the like journey of becoming a professional costume designer like I don't think I even was studying costume design yet when I saw the movie yeah when it came out it was not even a twinkle in my eye the idea of working in this field so I'm excited to go back I remember being super impacted by the color the same way that I love the show pushing daisies pushing up daisies um pushing daisies yeah i uh just like super saturated technicolor dream coat uh which is of course perfect for the season so i'm excited to see it and yeah rediscover how serious it was because i feel like i walked away going like oh that was little bit heavier than thought it was gonna be
01:21:27
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like the the takeaway from that movie is like it'll like bring up all your like feelings about your parents and make you cry was sort of like my understanding of the movie, i think.
01:21:41
Speaker
But I look forward to finding out if that's true or just something that I made to on adventure. So, ah yeah. Next time. we We'll see you next time. Yeah.
01:21:52
Speaker
Yeah. See you then. Thanks for listening.