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Big Fish- I'm Not Sure That Happened
14 Plays6 days ago
In a person's life- are Facts or Stories more important? That tension is the heart of this movie and a question I don't think we even attempt to answer. But we do love to explore how clothing can be used to reveal emotional truth, heighten mundane events into the stuff of legend, and help someone shape their identity. And for such a great costume movie, there was virtually no information we could find about how it came together. So it's just us!
At about the 18 minute mark, there's some background noise as there was a fence being put up nearby.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0319061/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_1_tt_6_nm_1_in_0_q_big%2520fish
https://www.stanwinstonschool.com/blog/big-fish-behind-the-scenes
Music: Cassette Deck by Basketcase
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Transcript
Introduction to Hot Set Podcast and PAX East Plans
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm Melinda. I'm Ariel. This is Hot Set, the movie podcast about costume design.
00:00:22
Speaker
Hi, friends. We have a big announcement today. We are going to be doing our first ever live podcast episode.
00:00:35
Speaker
Everybody who is planning to attend the PAX East Conference this May in Boston. You can come and see us. We will be performing a show on Saturday evening in one of the official rooms at PAX. We have like a time slot and everything.
00:00:54
Speaker
It's absolutely insane. feels really unreal and strange. Yeah.
1993 Super Mario Brothers Movie Discussion
00:01:00
Speaker
And for anyone who obviously will not be able to attend the convention, we are planning to record the episode and be able to release it as a bonus for everyone to hear, even if you're not able to see us in person.
00:01:14
Speaker
And we will be covering... we talk about that? Yeah, do it. We will be covering the Super Mario Brothers movie from 1993. So not the animated, nothing that might maybe makes sense because I haven't seen the new movie. No, no. We are covering 1993 movie that has minimal things to do with the game. And we are pretty thrilled about it because that was a very formative movie, I think, for a generation. Oh, absolutely. Crazy, crazy stuff.
00:01:47
Speaker
And if you've never seen it, my God, you need to see it to see Goombas, to see the the real life um envisioning of Princess Peach, of Mario, Luigi, all of these things. All your favorite friends. All your favorite friends.
00:02:01
Speaker
And it's going to be probably a little bit bonkers and also probably a little bit shorter than our regular episodes because we will have a very ah strict time slot. But um yeah, come and
Exploration of Tim Burton's Big Fish
00:02:12
Speaker
see our faces in in real time. And ah yeah, let's be friends in the real. yeah Yeah. And if you know anyone that is going to PAX and you're not, please tell them to come see us. Tell them to say hi. Like we would love to meet people and have a good time. and heck yeah. Yeah.
00:02:28
Speaker
And that's that. A check.
00:02:35
Speaker
Hello and welcome to another episode. We are so happy to be back and to be here. On this episode, we are talking about Big Fish, the Tim Burton film from 2003, starring McGregor, Albert Finney, Billy Credup, Way to Go IMDB for only listing your male stars. We love to see it.
00:02:55
Speaker
We actually also have Jessica Lange, Helena Bonham Carter, and Alison Lohman and Marion Cotillard playing some very standout, standout? No.
00:03:06
Speaker
ah Key, key characters. Thank you. Good language. ah If you have not seen it, this film's little blurb is one concentrated sentence on IMDb.
00:03:17
Speaker
A frustrated son tries to determine the fact from fiction in his dying father's life. Now, this was 2003. So we were in high school.
00:03:28
Speaker
That was sophomore year. Something like that. Yeah, that sounds right. Sophomore, summer. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. um So we were 15, 16-ish.
00:03:41
Speaker
Yeah. And I remember seeing in theaters. Did you see it? No. No, I didn't see it till many years later when I was in college. Someone was like, what do you mean you haven't seen Big Fish? Like the DVD's already going into the DVD player. So so what was your first impression when you saw it?
00:03:59
Speaker
Um... i I really enjoyed it. um I was watching it with someone who was very deeply like affected by the story because of like their personal background. And it was like a movie that was very special to them.
00:04:13
Speaker
And so that kind of ah meaning was like imbued into it for me, even though like it didn't... have as much of like a personal thing for my life at that point.
00:04:28
Speaker
So I remember really thinking that it was a good movie, but it wasn't one that like really stuck with me. So I think in the last episode, I said that I hadn't seen it in like 15 years and I accidentally lied because I Saw it a few years ago. i know. Oh my, I apologize. I am so sorry.
00:04:54
Speaker
um Jonathan very kindly reminded me that we watched it together maybe like three years ago and I completely forgot because we watch a lot of movies. So, ah but wow, you saw it in the theater. I don't think I knew that. Yeah, I think I saw it with my mom because it was a Tim Burton and it was just like, we just went and saw movies, especially during the summers and And, um you know, when theaters were very different game than they are now.
00:05:22
Speaker
and Now, my first impression was different from what I walked away with this morning's watch, which was that I was kind of like, oh, I mean, it's a good movie, but I was expecting more the first time. Because when we were teenagers, like Tim Burton was very Tim Burton.
00:05:40
Speaker
Like everything was always super over the top We grew up with Edward Scissorhands and, right you know, all of these things. there Before Christmas. Nightmare Before Christmas. I think Sleepy Hollow had probably come out around this time. Yeah. Yeah. So everything was so highly stylized and like Batman, you know, all these things.
00:05:57
Speaker
And this is different. And it's Colleen Atwood and it's still has Tim Burton all over it and it has Colleen Atwood in it. But it's a very, very costume-wise subtle version of those things. Yeah. definite yeah Like so subtle. And I feel like today – I also just was like, that I remember seeing the trailer the first time and I was like, oh that seems like, whoa, it actually. big fantasy. Big fantasy. And it felt like um what Pushing Daisies is, the TV show, which I think mentioned in episode.
00:06:31
Speaker
We mention it a lot. We do. And we'll have to we'll have to talk about it some point. but like We'll do a rewatch podcast. yeah like That one feels like a very big fantasy in a world that you recognize that has more in common with the real world than it doesn't.
00:06:48
Speaker
yeah And this like the trailer made it seem like it was all of that. But the whole point is... that it's this son trying to find out what's real in the fantasy of his father's life.
00:07:03
Speaker
And Tim Burton made this three years after his own father died. So it was, ah and it's based on a novel. um i believe it's a book. yeah um So there's this very real kind of like the, the grief of like a child losing parent.
00:07:21
Speaker
And I lost my mother in 2013. So, Seeing it now versus seeing it back then. yeah Very different. And I um ah kept trying to verbalize this about the costumes to Phil before he left this morning. Thank you for listening.
00:07:40
Speaker
attract to yeah And now all of our so are our nameless friends who we have not met yet, you get the opportunity to do the same. So when I first saw it, I wanted it to be more fantastical because there's a lot of color saturation and there's a lot of color palette work and like it's historical, some of it.
00:08:01
Speaker
um 50s, 60s, 70s. It's only 40s maybe. Yeah, for a little bit when he's really young. Yeah. Yeah. And um so there's like all those older, like very tight costumes that But then we get these like flashes of like the big top and you know this like kind of circus like family and then like the the little town of Spectre and just like all these things where there are people who are outside of... The giant when we first meet him Carl, who looks kind of like Gandalf. We'll get to all of that.
00:08:34
Speaker
But like when you actually watched it, I was a little bit disappointed because it was more grounded in reality. yeah But I think that the costumes... Like to saying to my old self, my young self, the costumes are actually so so successful because they are mirroring the whole theme of the story. Yes. Which is that this this father, Ed, played by Albert Finney and Ewan McGregor. This movie, by the way, has really great casting for the older version and the version. It's just like incredible. Yeah, especially with Jessica Lange and Alison Lohman. Alison Lohman and lomen wow Albert Finney and Ewan McGregor. Like the two pairs are so good. Yeah.
00:09:22
Speaker
And I do remember being struck by that. But like – The whole thing is that, you know, Ed, Albert Finney, Ewan McGregor is always telling these huge, these big fish, these, these stories that are tall tales to aggrandize his life. And somewhere else on the internet, I saw a story about like a narcissistic dad. And I was like, that might be the first impression and the impression that the son carries because according, well, anyway, we'll get there. Like, um I think that the costumes
00:09:54
Speaker
reflect how we go through the story because as we go through the story, Billy Crudup who plays the son is like pushing back against these fantasies and he's looking for the truth. Tell me the real story. I don't want to hear this again. yeah And then we get these flashbacks and in the flashbacks, there's always something that's a little bit elevated h But it's it's not like high fantasy. yeah It's not crazy. It's not crazy. And like when we're in these little places, they have this Tim Burton, Colleen Atwood meeting in the middle and every other designer as well.
00:10:30
Speaker
Every department is creating these like little fantasy worlds, but they're they're only fantasy because they're – like this blue suit that is so blue. Right.
00:10:43
Speaker
That it's like how a suit would stand out in your memory from an yeah important event. It was so blue. The top hat is so tall. So tall. um The cane that is like clear, you know, these these little details are so perfect for what a memory is and what would stand out.
00:11:04
Speaker
but are also far closer to reality than
Diversity and Representation in Media
00:11:08
Speaker
not. And so it just like seeing that, because Colleen Atwin can go, he go so big. Yeah. Like she can do anything. She can do anything. And so to go so subtle, but also to walk along with the story that you're going through, because like at the, at the very end, um Ed Albert Finney passes away.
00:11:29
Speaker
And he passes away kind of like to the story of his death that his son tells him that they kind of like agree upon. Right. And um at the funeral, all of these people that his son never knew who are characters in the stories that his father always told him are there and they're real. Yeah.
00:11:49
Speaker
And we see Danny DeVito. We see Carl, whose name I can't, the character name I can't remember. We see Carl the Giant. We see all these people who- see the twins. We see the twins. Met in Korea.
00:12:01
Speaker
And like, they seem like they would be too big for for something, a real adventure. But like Danny DeVito's character, who was a um a ringleader. Yeah, ringmaster. A big top bring like ringmaster.
00:12:15
Speaker
Ringleader. Yeah. same thing he's wearing the same like stripes pants and he has his red button-up vest yeah and he has his clear cane but he's wearing like a morning right and he has like a um a little like little baby top hat that's like very short. I don't, there's a specific name for that kind of hat escaping me. But like, yeah, that was one of my favorite things is like the payoff, like the, that scene and the payoff of the funeral and seeing like the truth of these people and like what things were like exaggerated over time. And it was like, it was so well done to get to finally see them.
00:12:57
Speaker
So well done. Because if you looked at any of these people individually, if you looked at the twins individually, they were wearing beautiful dresses and like little black veils. So obviously they like are very stylish. If you saw them on the street, you would notice them not just because they're twins, but because they're dressed so beautifully. um If you noticed Danny DeVito's character, the ringmaster, you'd be like, that guy is a bit like Haight Ashbery or Teller of Howie and Berkeley, you know, like – He looks like he works in a He's a character, but he fits in the world. And it was just like my respect for that being achieved in this is like so different now that I understand.
00:13:38
Speaker
um Because we've talked about it before. Costume can be super loud. It can be, you know, superhero suits. Or it could be and augmented real life. And that's what this is. And it's just like, it was really lovely watch it.
00:13:52
Speaker
And um we do I do have um some some moments. I was like, oh, goddammit, Tim Burton. I mean, look, that's always going to happen. like i There are some Tim Burton movies that I really like, and there are some Tim Burton movies that I don't particularly care for.
00:14:11
Speaker
ah I like this one. so And there are some attitudes that Tim Burton has that I don't particularly care for. There was an air interview... I think I remember hearing about it a couple of years ago via a cosplayer. um And I don't want to say their name right now because I might be misremembering it.
00:14:29
Speaker
But um I noticed the conversation happening around this via this person responding to it. And there's some interview out there. Phil tried to look it up and it wasn't exactly how I remember it. So how I remember it, we're just talk about it anyway.
00:14:43
Speaker
Sure. Which is very on brand for this episode. It is. So I'm going to talk about some big fish right here. So very famously in Tim Burton movies, he likes to go for very um gaunt, very pale creatures. And in ah in an interview, ah he basically pushed back against the idea of forced diversity.
00:15:09
Speaker
Tim. Yeah.
Gender and Romance in Big Fish
00:15:11
Speaker
Because he was like, in my world, it just doesn't work. And again, this is in my language. So it was slightly different. ok But basically trying to say that like black people or people with any form of melanin don't exist in his worlds when they are designed like hyper Tim Burton. There were people of color in this movie, but they were not hyper present in the super Tim Burton fantasy parts.
00:15:36
Speaker
Those were very white. And yeah, So he had this whole thing about like, you just can't do it. And what I loved about what I, when I found out about this was that the cosplayer who was talking about it was like, just watch me do think the corpse bride.
00:15:52
Speaker
And then we'll talk about it. Yeah. And um it was like, that's, yeah, that's ridiculous. So it's such a crazy thing to say. Cause you're like, perhaps you, Tim Burton cannot, and maybe that's a moral failing of you and not an indication that no one can do it. It's just that yeah choose not to and want to pretend that it's ah something that everyone experiences and not just you. And it just freaking isn't.
00:16:17
Speaker
And yeah, So that changed my opinion on Tim Burton pretty, pretty, pretty significantly. And, um, I, in like the very beginning of this scene before we, or this movie, before we see Ewan McGregor, we see the back of his head while he's telling a story to essentially like a version of Cub Scouts. And this is stuff that like totally existed.
00:16:41
Speaker
Like I'm sure, but I was like, but of course
Ed's Relationships and Storytelling in Big Fish
00:16:44
Speaker
it's Tim Burton where it's a bunch of these little kids dressed up in faux Native American like yeah clothing around this like campfire and i was already like i want to flip a table mr burton and so i just wanted to like put paid to that because anytime we see it in anything i always just want to be like yeah we saw it and like we're not gonna ride right over it like Yeah, like we're not pretending that it didn't happen and we're not pretending that it's cool to do. so And it's like, in this case, this is a part of the story that's supposed to be taking place, I believe, in the 70s, early 70s. Yeah. And so it's like, yeah, it was the seventy s
00:17:26
Speaker
And like, that's, again, not to just ride past it, but also to go, blech. Yeah, like I don't like that. Nope. So that's that's there. um Okay.
00:17:38
Speaker
So this movie. This film. my, my. My, my, my, my. my it is It's a very interesting rollercoaster of this character that you do kind of think is a bit of a dick.
00:17:54
Speaker
The dad. Yeah. Because he's always the main character of a story. Yeah. He's just... He's the ever-present hero. Everything always works out for him perfectly. He's always doing the right thing. He's never done the wrong thing according to his stories. Yeah. Yeah. And then his son who is a journalist and is now about to have his first child with his wife, played by Marion Cotillard.
00:18:20
Speaker
And he's like, ah we first see them at their wedding and he gets real pissed at his dad because his dad tells the story of the big fish yet again. And he's just like. how come this couldn't be about me? Like, why does this have to be about you? Why do you constantly have to make these stories about you? yeah And then he and his father don't speak for three years and his mother will write letters and talk to him and all that stuff, but he hasn't spoken to his father in years.
00:18:45
Speaker
And then he finds out that his father is dying. So he goes back home with his wife and, um, they are there to, to be with his parents and to be there with his father.
00:18:58
Speaker
and um push back against this storytelling. He's like, before, basically he's like, before you die, i want you to tell me what really happened telling your life. Yeah. I, I can't, I don't want to leave it with me not actually knowing your life and only this story that is and fake.
00:19:21
Speaker
And beyond the story, the assumptions he's made to fill in the blanks, because there were many years his father became became a traveling salesman while he was growing up. And there were many years where his dad just wasn't there. yeah So he felt like his dad had like a second family, which unfortunately, a bunch of traveling salesmen did, including my own grandfather.
00:19:39
Speaker
May he rot. Oh my God. So we could talk about that another time. Perhaps off mic.
00:19:50
Speaker
That was a real thing. And so people could get up to known good because nobody was, was watching him. And then he finds out and we find out as the audience, we get the benefit of actually seeing his life play out.
00:20:04
Speaker
And, um, the son isn't getting that benefit because he's not the audience in the movie. Yeah. He's simply character in the movie. He's simply a character just doing what he was written to do.
00:20:15
Speaker
And eventually he does like stumble upon, not stumble, he looks for documentation to actually find these things. And then he goes out and drives and meets someone who was pretty pivotal in the story.
00:20:28
Speaker
who gives him clarity. And in all of these moments, in all of these flashbacks, there are these heightened scenes where we do get to see those costumes that are like real, but slightly elevated. yeah And then in the...
00:20:44
Speaker
In the world of today, while the son is with his family, we get to see a slightly subtle version that. Yeah, it's very real. It's very real it's very...
00:20:58
Speaker
and it's very tied to the fantasy with color because there are some important colors in this movie and I'm going to ask you what you what were the important movie of colors to you and then i want to see if they are the same as mine so what colors stood out to you the most Okay, number one most important color in the movie, red.
00:21:23
Speaker
The other ones I feel like are more of a tie are blue, white, yellow, and shades of brown. yeah Like almost the entire movie exists within that color palette. Yes, it's pretty it's pretty incredible.
00:21:42
Speaker
Because like when you look at it, it's not like shouting in your face. But then when you look again, you're like, these colors are ever present and they are always grouped. So like, I agree. Red, super important, but I would kind of lift up the blue and the yellow away from white and the brown and the tans. Fair, fair. Because like the red is worn by Ed.
00:22:04
Speaker
That's how we meet Ed in multiple scenes. He is like in red. very deep red. The car, um and But then there's also a lot with like the high school colors. The football like uniforms.
00:22:21
Speaker
um right dan he like Danny DeVito's ringmaster jacket. um There's like a that kind of parade scene with the marching band in that exact like scarlet shade of red.
00:22:34
Speaker
yeah There's a lot. And then the the color that Jessica Lange's character whose name is. Sandra thank you so much I had to look it up because I kept forgetting yep so Sandra wears
The Town of Spectre in Big Fish
00:22:50
Speaker
a red coat to his funeral yeah oh my god and everybody else is in black except for like yeah Danny DeVito's still wearing the vest like underneath a black coat everybody has at least black on the outside or like a dark toned color Yeah. blues that kind of thing
00:23:05
Speaker
but she's wearing this bright crimson not crimson but like scarlet scarlet scarlet coat and so that's a ah main main main color but blue you could argue is about as important true yeah that's her color yeah is blue.
00:23:23
Speaker
And then yellow is this like massive connector to the two of them because it it's the daffodils. And then it's in their house in the scene when they're getting into the bathtub. There's like the the um shower curtain like around the bathtub is this very delicate blue and the wallpaper is very, very delicate yellow. So it's like there's it's it's kind of like the the colors of their love story.
00:23:49
Speaker
Yeah. and so i just like love that and the scene with the daffodils when ah ian mcgregor is doing something that's not great but he makes him he paints himself to be doing it responsibly which is proposing to a girl who's already engaged. i know And said no a bunch of times and said, even in in this massive proposal where he's covered the front lawn of her sorority with these daffodils that he got from five different states.
00:24:18
Speaker
And they're like planted in the ground. They're not like cut flowers. Yeah, no, it's like, who did you hire to plant those in there? because who Like, how would no one notice that this was happening? Overnight, just happening overnight silently.
00:24:30
Speaker
so Like he gets his ass handed to him in those daffodils. By Roy from The Office. was like, oh, this actor is just typecast.
00:24:41
Speaker
I feel so bad for him because anytime I've seen like an actual interview with him, he seems like a lovely person. And he's just like playing this this guy who constantly, and he, I feel like he's much more of a dick in The Office. But in this one, you see their childhoods and you see him always in the background of of Ed's stories. And he's always the one who's not winning because Ed's winning. Yeah. But in this daffodil scene where Ed is in this like very saturated blue suit, she's wearing this like very soft blue dress with a yellow belt.
00:25:15
Speaker
And so it's like you are just in this like delicious color like sea of these colors that represent the fantasy of it all while the reality is kind of like playing out where this is It's like, I don't know you. Like, knocks on her sorority ass door and goes, I don't know you.
00:25:35
Speaker
And you don't know me. But I loved you for three years and I've been working my ass off to find out who you are and where you are and here we are today. she's like, oh, that really sucks because I'm engaged to get married to somebody else.
00:25:48
Speaker
It's such a movie thing to do. Yeah. To be like. Where it's like, I'm going to call the cops. Oh, my God. Please stay away. and i just i was so obsessed with the moment where he has all the daffodils. like he you know She comes out, they're talking, and then like I don't know his character's name, so I'm just going to call him Roy. like comes He comes upon the scene.
00:26:12
Speaker
He's with 15 other guys. Dudes. who He's like, this pain in the ass from my hometown just showed up and he's trying to take another thing from me.
00:26:23
Speaker
I can't handle it like Get the posse together. They're all dressed like exactly the same the way that fraternity guys like honestly do all dress the same.
00:26:34
Speaker
and it was just like that it was terrifying to be like this posse of like southern white dudes coming upon... I was like, this is terrifying. I hate definite and Not a great image in any way, shape, or form. And then he just like beats the ever-loving hell out of this character who then...
00:26:54
Speaker
is trying to make himself look good successfully to this girl because she says, please don't do anything like in anticipation of violence. And he's like, okay, so he doesn't fight back.
00:27:07
Speaker
And like, gets covered in blood all over his face. Yet again, his favorite color. very like the right Oh my God. When he like smiles and his whole mouth is like full of... I was just like, this is awful. I hate it. Okay.
00:27:21
Speaker
He gets spun by Roy. Again, not the character. Not his name at all. gets spun to like... He's looking at the camera. So he's looking at us and Roy's in the middle and then Sandra's in the background and she goes, I would... I don't even know him, but I would choose him over you.
00:27:37
Speaker
and Ed smiles. like I won. I won. And his teeth are just covered with blood, bloods all over his face. And I just like, red, red can be such like, a we've talked about it so many times, what colors can symbolize. And like, we can choose to add, you know, our own little interpretations, whatever, but like, you know,
00:27:59
Speaker
we bleed red. and So like very often red is ah symbol of passion and of life because that's what's flowing inside of our bodies. And sometimes like life violence and threats.
00:28:12
Speaker
It's just like pretty great to see that color that's used to make him stand out a little bit. ah Just all over the place the most messy, messy way.
00:28:25
Speaker
But I did agree with her in that moment. Like i i appreciate because like this this moment shows up a lot in stories of like the two guys like fighting over the sort of damsel girl who's standing there like crying being like, please don't. and like Knock it off.
00:28:43
Speaker
Her reaction to just be like, I don't even it's like and care about that guy. I just hate what you're doing so much. I was like, okay, I'm with you. I'm with you in this moment, even though this is such a terrible movie trope.
00:28:56
Speaker
And so it's like he Roy literally as he's stomping through the daffodil says, she's mine. yeah you know like and And there's an additional line that like underlines that to make it like she is property.
00:29:08
Speaker
And I won her and you don't get to take her from me. And it's like, at least Ed's character who has over fantasized, you know, her doesn't know her, but it's like, you're going to be my wife.
00:29:23
Speaker
At least he's been talking to her and not through her in the scenes that we've seen him. Yeah, he spends, I guess, three years working for free at the circus. And every month, Danny DeVito, who does know who she is, tells him one fact about her. So it's like, okay, well, at least he's like, trying to learn who she is as a person also, you know, like a serial killer would.
00:29:53
Speaker
I mean, but it's Ewan McGregor and he's so cute. So it's fine. Do you know that thing that's like, if you if you took the exact same like plot and you replace like the handsome male lead with Steve Buscemi, would it still be romantic or would it be creepy? And if the answer is that like if Steve Buscemi did it, I wouldn't like it, then the actual thing is that that it's creepy and not romantic.
00:30:18
Speaker
Yeah. The man himself who is in this movie. In the film. He is in this film. But I do think that that is a really good way to like, because we get fed so many like toxic ideas about romance through movies. And then you slap like conventionally attractive people on it. And that's that's why the question of Steve Buscemi, who is not an unattractive person. He's just ah a unique looking person. He's not a Hollywood heartthrob. No. And like, he's just more representative of regular folks who have different faces.
00:30:51
Speaker
so Like, yeah, definitely. My, my typical has always been to go to twilight and be like, would this be cool? I don't, I don't think so.
00:31:03
Speaker
No, no. reason why I just do not like the movie, the notebook, because I'm like, everything that Ryan Gosling does is not okay, but he is Ryan Gosling. Okay.
00:31:15
Speaker
The only reason that people forgive it is because he's trying to. I'm like, this guy is categorically capital n capital C, not cool. Not cool.
00:31:27
Speaker
Oh my God. So, okay. Okay. So before we have our main character played by Ewan McGregor in the flashbacks, yes before we see him wooing his future wife, Sandra, sandra um we do see like these flashbacks of his childhood where like there's one flashback where he's... um And Roy, as a child, is also in this flashback where he's dared to go see the witch in town who apparently has like a...
00:31:58
Speaker
Like seeing eye. Like a blind eye where you can see your your future or see your death. And it's the first time that we see Ed um do this thing, which I kind of appreciated in all of his tall tales, which is that he's always befriending the people who are on the outskirts, on the edges. Yeah.
00:32:21
Speaker
You could skew it towards a manipulative thing, but I feel like it's not. I feel like he has such an aggrandized view of his own life, like that he is a main character in a story, that he recognizes that he's outside of the regular world too, because he sees everything as tall as these massive adventures and stuff.
00:32:43
Speaker
So when he sees other people who are living not normal, regular, normal, but like... yeah what a convention convention Conventional cookie cutter lives that he's drawn to them because they are colorful and they're bright and they make his world more of a story.
00:33:00
Speaker
And so the witch is played by Helena Bonham Carter. And what an interesting choice. Yeah. And because we see her again and I have not put any deep thought to that or if it is metaphor or not.
00:33:14
Speaker
But I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Because she basically plays that character again in a different part of the life cycle of that kind of a character.
00:33:26
Speaker
Right. um Where she is this woman living on her own and he he could just be a piece of shit. And this like little conventional looking boy in a red cardigan, um he could bully her, he could scare her, but instead he asks her, is there any chance I could get a look at that aisle?
00:33:46
Speaker
she's like ah We don't see the rest of the conversation, but he comes back out of the house and ah the boys are like, oh my God, did you see? And he goes, I did. And you can too. and he steps aside and she flips up her eye patch and we see how they die like later in their lives. yeah And so that is maybe one of the more most fantastical moments of the movie. Yeah. Yeah, where you're just like, I'm pretty sure this categorically didn't happen. Not just like that there's some truth to it and it's been exaggerated. You're sort of like, I don't think this happened. yeah Because it's like she's so very much like the house where she lives. It's all so Hansel and Gretel, witch in the forest.
00:34:30
Speaker
But it's like really pushed past the bounds of most of the other things that are happening, even in the tall tales that he continues to tell. Yeah. um And then we see him go on this journey to this little town called Spectre. my god And first he meets Carl the Giant, who, like, the town, like, rallies against. And we got to get him out of here. And he's like, well, what if I also go with you? Like, we go on an adventure. Yeah, I kind of love that. Because this one, I feel like this initial, like, interaction between the two of them could be, like, the most manipulative that he could is.
00:35:04
Speaker
But he's sort of like – This town's too small for a fellow like you, but it's also too small for me and my ambition. So let's yeah go together. it was more of an opportunity. He's like, I don't have to manipulate you out of here.
00:35:18
Speaker
I could just test you because he's like, you could eat me. I'm a sacrifice in the town. Yeah. But like Carl's costume that we see him in when we first meet him, i was just like, I need to know everything about how this was made. I need to know everything because he's so not even Gandalf-y. The only thing about Gandalf is that he's got like long overgrown hair like a long beer and the gray and the white. But he's like Radagast.
00:35:45
Speaker
Yes. Because he's like this foresty – he's been like scrounging for clothes and all these things. And yeah he's just like unkempt and tired. He's just wearing like animal pelts and like feathers. Just stacked and stacked stacked. Sticks and horns. And they're just like hanging off of – it was insane looking. And it it looked very – real in terms of like real pelts and real feathers like there was nothing fake going on yeah so it's like what does that look like because this actor while not as large as portrayed in the movie obviously is a large man and so it's like that's a lot of real estate to cover with real things yeah so i also read that
00:36:32
Speaker
and This is on IMDb, so we'll assume that it's true, but who knows? um It said that the the wardrobe department made that actor a pair of shoes out luggage?
Costume Design Insights in Big Fish
00:36:46
Speaker
look it and i And it was like, that was the extent of the information. But I was like, I need to know so much about that. Because it said that he had, I think, at one point, the record for like the biggest like feet in like Guinness. And he like his his size of his feet would be like an equivalent to like a size 29 shoes.
00:37:09
Speaker
So I'm sure that any shoes that the man is wearing in his life or in a movie are being custom made. of Oh, you have to start getting your shoes custom made after like 16 or 17. And like, i think yeah one of my, for sure, two of my brothers have feet.
00:37:27
Speaker
that are like that big. Wow. so it's like, yeah, they're over six four So it's like they're giants in my eyes. um Like they've got big old feet. And so like 29? I know.
00:37:41
Speaker
Is that a number that I've conceived of? I want to say, i think at some point I had read like what size feet like Shaquille O'Neal has. And it was not that big, but it was, like think it was like in the low 20s maybe. how But was like, whoa, that's a pretty interesting challenge, like a technical challenge.
00:38:03
Speaker
um Because shoemaking is is complicated. Yeah, it's own its own thing. whole thing. And so like, what a cool opportunity. To be like, yeah, like if you have made shoes before, great. If you haven't, great.
00:38:18
Speaker
And if you are not somebody who's making special order larger size shoes, cool. And then to be like, yeah, we can use luggage without having to pay for like imported leather or any of these kinds of things, we can use luggage.
00:38:34
Speaker
And then like sourcing that luggage because it's like you could choose so many different things. What an interesting – that is cool. I know. And I don't know about you, but I had very, very difficult time finding any information about the costumes. Not a bit. Nothing. Anything. Anything.
00:38:54
Speaker
And like we already know that Google is shit for search engine, right? Like it's so bad. But everything was just about the Broadway adaptation or like various theaters doing stuff. not couple things about the Broadway adaptation even. I was finding stuff about movies we've already done. Like it was really weird what was coming up in the results. It was very frustrating. I found one thing that was interesting, which was like a blog entry on the Stan Winston site because they made a lot of puppets and prosthetics for the movie.
00:39:24
Speaker
So like that was cool. And that's like obviously costume adjacent. And they had like pictures of like the designs for like Helena Bonham Carter as like the witch and the prosthetic like facial stuff like that was cool. Yeah.
00:39:37
Speaker
And like they made an animatronic fish for the movie. Like they made the big fish. um That was cool. But it was like not really costume stuff. nope And i was like and trying like every combination of stuff that I could think of to like I was like there has to be something where somebody asked Colleen Atwood about doing this movie. And it was like it's not here. can't. Because it's like this is also one of the movies with one of the larger listed costume departments, like wardrobe departments. And so it's like this.
00:40:09
Speaker
There's people. People need this stuff. And like don't just give us these little tiny bite size. We made giant shoes out of luggage and then not tell the story. know. Tell the story. Dang it.
00:40:21
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So I – where are we next? We're in – we just got to Spectre. just got to Spectre. And Spectre is this like – Because takes place in Alabama, I think, right? And this is this like little, on the surface, culty town.
00:40:40
Speaker
Very. It's a tiny, tiny town with no road that you just accidentally arrive in And everybody's shoes are tossed up on this like, pla this like, like a you know. Like wire. Wire. Yeah. And then nobody wears shoes because they don't need to.
00:40:57
Speaker
There's grass everywhere. There's just soft, soft ground and grass. And it's supposed to be this like ideal little village. Yeah. It really reminded me of purgatory. Like it was very purgatory coded. The world doesn't affect this place. It is like somehow magically set aside. And it's just...
00:41:19
Speaker
peace and um this is where we see Steve Buscemi's character Norther for the first time and he's supposed to be this poet that Ed has like talked to people about and said like he's gone off to Paris he's seen all parts of the world and then he's dismayed to find him in this town yeah perfectly content just eating apple pie and rocking in this chair there's something in that pie that makes people like complacent like there's something in there It's crazy. and But we it was fascinating to me because like i like there is a very tight color palette here with like all like whites and off whites and tan. It's like church Sunday. Like before, you know, more –
00:42:00
Speaker
Modern clothes, whatever. It's like Easter Sunday, if you will, or First Communion, where it's like everything is pastels and very light. Delicate and pretty. And it would look like a just like a version of like a 50s dress.
00:42:16
Speaker
Small town if everyone wasn't barefoot. Like the barefootness is what like makes it look weird and off-putting. It really throws it. And then there's also little details that you look at that that make it more fantastical. So like they have this, aside from the acting, which definitely does it.
00:42:36
Speaker
But they have like all the men are wearing these like tan or off white, you know, suits that seem like they're like linen and just like very, very fair. And then the women are wearing all these different like soft pastels and they have a party scene.
00:42:51
Speaker
And in the party scene, ah Missy Pyle plays Mildred. I her. I love her. I love her. um Every time she comes up, I'm like, this is going to be great. And she is wearing this.
00:43:05
Speaker
dress this party dress that is pretty freaking phenomenal because it's got these like what kind of it's like a mint green i feel yeah or like yeah but like there's there's a tiny bit like there's little lace that i feel like is a little bit more saturated yeah than everything else it's like just a little bit over the line from where everybody else is that makes her stand out Pushes her. But yeah there's this like deep V shape on the bodice that goes up to the shoulder points.
00:43:36
Speaker
That's just a seat. Maybe it's like seafoamy even like yeah, cause there's a little bit more blue in there. gonna pull up a picture. it's It's got all these like crazy ruffles.
00:43:46
Speaker
And then she has these two matching ribbons in her like pigtails. Yeah. And then matching that, not fully matching, but ruffle matching is this little girl who kind of decides that she's going to marry Ed someday. And she's like, I'm eight and you're 18. And then so when you're 18 when you're be When you're I'll be when you're forty eight i'll be thirty eight that won't be that far apart And like, honestly, not wrong, but like, not wrong, because then it won't be a nightmarish age difference.
00:44:22
Speaker
But um she basically is like, everybody there has been expecting Ed, which also makes it feel purgatory. Right. A little creepy. Yeah. he's He's amongst all these pastel people in his like scarlet shirt. Yeah. With his dark. Black pants. Yeah, black pants.
00:44:41
Speaker
And he had like black boots. And so he – and he also has this key to the city because when he and Carl, the giant, leave his hometown – He's like been a hometown hero, right? So they gift him the key to the city and it's this giant gold key on this giant gold chain.
00:44:57
Speaker
When I say a giant gold chain, the chains aren't giant. It's just a very long chain. Yeah. It's like, neck yeah, it's very like, it elevates him to like the main character of a children's story. And you're like visually seeing it because like, what a strange thing to see somebody walking around with is just this giant key around their neck. Yeah.
00:45:17
Speaker
And he keeps it on basically the whole time that he's there. And he becomes barefoot too because Jenny, this little girl, steals his shoes. And she has this little blouse that she wears underneath these shirt dresses.
00:45:28
Speaker
And it's the same little blouse that has these like ruffles like all over it. Did you see who plays that part? Is that Miley Cyrus? That is Miley Cyrus. She's credited with her actual like legal given name which is destiny like miley is a nickname so in the credits it says destiny cyrus but that is her oh wait no no no that was that's not her that's not her miley cyrus played a little girl called ruthie and the girl played jenny is hayley ann nelson
00:46:01
Speaker
Oh, yeah. So but my bad, my bad in this movie. And I don't now that it's Ruthie. I don't know who the heck Ruthie is. Ruthie, could you please call in? Tell us so who you are.
00:46:15
Speaker
I don't know you. But what a weird little factoid. And so i was definitely not expecting to see that. And like, yeah, it it's just this these little details. And like there's a there's a point in the party where um Steve Buscemi's character is sitting in a rocking chair,
00:46:33
Speaker
And he's like constantly trying to write poetry when we see him. And he's like starting to recite or show Ed like what he's been working on and it's nothing. He has no inspiration. he has nothing to write about.
00:46:45
Speaker
So he's like sitting here just going roses are red, plants are blue. And these girls are surrounding him. And they're each wearing these like, is it like chiffon basically that all these women are wearing? It's very lightweight. hot Like maybe it's like like a cotton, like, you know, but it is, it's those sheer layers. Yeah. Yeah. And so there are three women behind him with polka dots.
00:47:08
Speaker
And so like there are some people in solids and then some people with just these polka dot themes. So it's like their themes like tying together little groups within the group of Spectre. Right. And they just like together, they just become this very soft, like flower pedally weight, like people.
00:47:28
Speaker
But then if you were to look at them individually and drop them into the other town that Ed came from, You'd be like, what are you doing? ah Where'd you get that outfit? Where are you headed?
00:47:41
Speaker
But like they wouldn't be crazy. They would be like, are you a part of a wedding party? Right. Not like, are you going to a different plan of existence? So that's the level of distinguishing between fantasy and reality that we're doing yeah where these things still exist within the world. And if they were mixed in, it would just be slightly different.
00:48:04
Speaker
Right. right and like not impossible to explain but when they're together you're just like is um mel ah so not safe i need to go if i saw if i came through a thicket no And I came into this town.
00:48:21
Speaker
and Two things. Absolutely not. dying here. yeah Or I got to get out of here. i got to get out of here while I still recognize that I got to get out of here. i got to go. Apple pie?
00:48:33
Speaker
No, thank you. What's in that pie? I don't. No, thank you. There's some powders being like so mixed in. This place is not right. What? It's not right. And you can talk about how you knew I'd be here, but I'm early. i don't like it. They built that town set because the movie is filmed in Alabama.
00:48:53
Speaker
And they built the town set and you could go visit that set for a very long time. I don't know if it's still there to this day because it's been over 20 years. But like you could go see it for a long time.
00:49:07
Speaker
That's trippy. And I'm like, that's freaky. i don't want to go. I'd be like, does Rob Zombie own this? Because I feel like a Rob Zombie film would make a lot of sense on this set.
00:49:18
Speaker
When Ed first walks out and the guy is playing dueling banjos on the banjo, I was like, that is your first indication to get out of here. Yeah. You you hear that and you go, no, thank you. No. Straight into the water. is that an alligator?
00:49:33
Speaker
Good night. So it's like, I gotta go. It's not here. And he doesn't even get his shoes back. He has to leave them behind. And he has like his first experience with the big fish that we we see, which is with a ah woman that he doesn't see clearly in the moonlight.
00:49:50
Speaker
And who's like naked and bathing. And then he sees like a water moccasin or something like swimming after her. And then it turns out that she was never there and he was fighting ah a stick. And like the little girl, Jenny's like, oh, did you see a woman? And he's like, I did. and she was like, it's the fish.
00:50:06
Speaker
And so it's it's this interesting thing where people are interacting with his his stories. right Even when we see that they're not exactly what's happening, people are like, I understood what you saw.
00:50:17
Speaker
and so Talking about this little girl, Jenny, because she will grow up to be Helena Bonham Carter, but not the Helena Bonham Carter that we saw in the beginning, question mark. um Unclear. Unclear. Instead, she is this version because that version had like white hair that was crazy and like black gothic, you know. Yeah. And she was old. Like she was very old. Yeah.
00:50:41
Speaker
When we see her later as older Jenny, she is going to have blonde hair that's like a little bit unkempt. And she's also going dress in black with like Victorian boots. So she's going to have that influence.
00:50:54
Speaker
Right. And i I feel like that story of the witch has to be symbolic to our character, Ed. Right. Because Jenny is a major figure in his life where he meets her as a little girl and then meets her as an adult.
00:51:09
Speaker
And he cares about her and he cares about this town, this nightmare town of Spectre, which he eventually will buy. and and because a it's been like rotting down and like people are being pushed out. And he's like, no, don't don't let this happen. Probably because they don't do anything there. They don't do anything there.
00:51:28
Speaker
And so it's like he revitalizes this town by buying it and putting it into trust so that everybody who lives there can just live there and not worry. And he refurbishes her home. Carl, the giant, literally pushes it so that it stands up straight. Her little crooked house on the swamp.
00:51:44
Speaker
And like Carl has some great, great costumes beyond his Radagast style. you know wild man situation because he has these suits that are pretty lovely suits and like waistcoats it's just like really really handsome wardrobe for this man even his like the first so his like kind of first costume when they're like gonna leave town in this like long olive color trench coat with this like riveting and stuff was like very cool yeah it's all like
00:52:16
Speaker
tailored. And so I think that that's the beautiful thing about this like very large man is that they put a lot of care into how he was being dressed. I don't I love the saviorism of Ed, but i do love amazing that Carl gets to wear something that isn't like... yeah We get to explore some more facets of his. But at the same time, he also ends up like joining the like circus with Danny DeVito, which is explicitly exploitative. Because when he's joining, Danny DeVito's handing him a contract and he's like, have you ever heard the term involuntary servitude? And Carl's like, no. And he's like, fantastic.
00:52:56
Speaker
Sign here. You're like, oh, no. He's like, very aware. This is not a great industry. But it's one that a lot of people ended up in because they were pushed out of other forms of society.
00:53:10
Speaker
yeah And then like, you become your own society within that. And I loved the like the the color palette shift at the circus because all of our colors, the red, the blue, the yellow, the white, the browns, are still the dominant color palette at the circus. But like the vibrancy has been like turned up to 10. It's like those colors were present in Spectre, but they were so washed out and so light.
00:53:41
Speaker
yeah And then... At the circus, yeah, it's super bright, super eye-catching because it's meant to be. And it's super like there's stripes, there's all these things going on. And so you're just like a little bit overwhelmed if you were to look at them side by side and be like, whoa.
00:53:57
Speaker
But it works so well for the character because he's out there looking for life. He's not looking for the answer that Spector is offering of like, just be here and be chill. And then you can marry Jenny when she's old enough. oh Like, what the hell is that?
00:54:12
Speaker
And so he's like, he literally says, I'm not ready for this before he goes off and disappears yeah ah to the circus. And he's like got a lot of blue, especially after, you you know, seeing Sandra and like, he's incorporating her color into his palette more. Yeah.
00:54:30
Speaker
And then we just like to ping pong all over the place. Yeah. We're like, you know, going back and forth between the flashbacks and the world of today. and in the world of today, they're like softer colors. It feels like where everything feels more worn. It's not like a postcard. It feels like, because everything everywhere else, it feels like it's the first time folks have been wearing those things. Everything is very crisp everywhere we're seeing.
00:54:57
Speaker
It's the same level of crispness. Everything has been starched or ironed or whatever. And then like in the, the, world of today. It's all very lived in. yeah It's all very lived in because like Marion Cotillard's character, ah Josephine, who's pregnant, she's wearing soft, comfortable clothing. She has this really nice sweater that has like a giant- Oh, yeah. Like a big like duster kind of cardigan thing. Yeah. It's so great.
00:55:24
Speaker
And um it's got like a kind of like a zip cowl neck that's like, or like a button up cowl neck. So it's just like really big on her back and around her shoulders. And, um like, ah Sandra is wearing these really, like, well put together outfits, but they're they're not so saturated. They're not so standout crazy. They're just, like, beautiful things that she has cared for for a very long time.
00:55:50
Speaker
And um Ed and Will, his son. couldn't think of his name. I was like, the silly crud up. Yeah, I'm literally looking at IMDb. Yeah. Literally. They're just wearing like regular button up shirts and stuff that are just in colors. And it feels like there's a lot more of the browns on Will's side. And then there's some of the reds and the other colors on everybody else.
00:56:17
Speaker
We see them repeat clothes in yeah the real world. Like the timeline of how long exactly they're there is... I feel like maybe not super like... I wasn't 100% sure how long they're there. Obviously, it's like a few days at least. But like but they're living out of a suitcase. Yeah. So you see the pieces get like repeated, um which is interesting also because like even in the stories...
00:56:44
Speaker
As things change, you do see people in like a particular outfit for like a while. yeah They're not like in a new thing every time you see them unless it makes sense contextually that they would do that. like it's a different decade. It's a different year. than right Then we see something different.
00:57:03
Speaker
And I did enjoy. okay So moving away from the circus, moving into the era of Sandra and Ed being married and together and it has become a traveling salesman. So now we're in the seventies and we've been seeing like little glimpses,
00:57:22
Speaker
of other yeah oh no sorry that's kind of bounces around you are you skipping the korean war so i'll go to the korean war because it's before he becomes a salesman but he's in the korean war as a soldier he gets conscripted drafted and um like right as he's healing from his beat down from roy right Right. In daffodil field.
00:57:44
Speaker
So they get married really quick and then he goes away. And we so we jump back to seeing Sandra in their, like, in her house, their house. Yeah, it looks very, like, starter home. It's very much the the pastel town at the base of the hill in Edward Scissorhands. And so she has yeah like exactly the silhouette of a fifties housewife. And um then we see him like joyously risking his life much as he can get out faster. makes you husband to like, maybe you're not going to get home at all. Cause you're going to die. It's either not get home at all or get home faster.
00:58:20
Speaker
And he jumps out of a plane and lands on this like set. Like a USO show looking thing. But like Chinese. Yeah. so um I think it's Chinese because I don't think that's Korean that they're speaking. Okay.
00:58:34
Speaker
According to IMDb, the... the there's four different languages being spoken in those scenes. And only one of them is Korean. Like there's, there's apparently some people are speaking Tagalog. Some people are speaking Cantonese.
00:58:52
Speaker
Some people are speaking Mandarin and some people are speaking Korean. And I was like, this is really weird. And I don't know why. they also kind of think that's pretty fascinating. Cause like at,
00:59:06
Speaker
The history of of all of those countries and how they are intermingled through invasion, et cetera, et cetera, am not super educated on. And I'm now very happy to be very honest about that we are in this time that we're in where we are really realizing how much propaganda we've been fed our entire lives. And we're trying to educate ourselves out of that hole, but I'm still in that hole. Yeah.
00:59:31
Speaker
So it was interesting hearing all these different languages, but it was, I think I was like, where are we? The only thing that made sense timeline-wise is the Korean War. It's Korea. that yeah And I don't, honestly, I should know more about the Korean War because my grandfather served in the Korean War, and I know shockingly little about it.
00:59:55
Speaker
That's... I'm so sorry. I mean, to, to just touch back on that real talk, that is the propaganda of it all is that literally the Korean war when we were in school was like a paragraph and it did nothing to talk about the U S and what it was fucking doing anywhere. So it's very frustrating because I can't fully place what's happening in this scene, but it is like a USO style tour Yeah, that's happening.
01:00:24
Speaker
Yeah. And there are there's these conjoined twins. And we find out later at the funeral towards the end of the movie that they were not conjoined. But this is like just they are twins. So it's like the kernel of the reality is yeah. And they're wearing this like showgirl outfit. Oh, my God. Fantastic. Like red sequins and all this.
01:00:44
Speaker
I just like loved this little moment of that costume, the conjoined costume. Loved is a strong word, but I liked that it was this red moment that like, yes, is like the the the through line color. throughline color And it like made sense.
01:01:05
Speaker
they're immediately connected. Like the twins are also always looking for life and like, what's, what's exciting and what's coming next. And then they have ambition. They will have ambition and they meet somebody who also has this ambition to like have stories in
Character Dynamics and Narrative in Big Fish
01:01:21
Speaker
their life. And so I, I kind of liked putting that idea on there, regardless of whether or not it's really like attached.
01:01:28
Speaker
Yeah. It does make sense as like a through line that like when you see other characters in red, it's like... Ed will be drawn to them. Yes.
01:01:39
Speaker
The ring master, the twins. Yeah. Like he's just it makes sense. They're going to be connected. yeah And so they, we kind of like hand wave it away, but they make it back to the U S and, um, Ed like ah hooks back up with Sandra and they like build this life. And, um he becomes this traveling salesman and we don't see him in red. Yeah.
01:02:04
Speaker
Right. It shifts to the car. Yeah, it shifts to the car and it shifts to the 70s. So the car, it's more of like an external thing now. And like, of course, a shirt is external because it's outside of your body, but it's not directly on his person that he's like projecting this desire to go find things in the world like this. This passion has changed. Yeah.
01:02:26
Speaker
And it's like the vehicle that's taking him places instead of him being the engine that's like getting there. And so it's kind of an interesting choice because it's when he becomes a father that that visual language changes a little bit.
01:02:41
Speaker
And um we see him in this bank scene where he re-meets Norther, the poet by Steve Buscemi. And everybody in that scene, it's like a stage play where you're kind of expecting like – some choreography to kick in and everybody to do a dance number because everybody's in the same spectrum of 70s that does not include big pieces of orange or greens.
01:03:05
Speaker
right It's the tan, the brown, and everything that's in there. So like maybe there are dark reds. Maybe there's like some dark orange, but it's all like a specific. It's very tight color It's very tight color scheme. And it's pretty great. And he's like accidentally conscripted into this bank robbery that's unsuccessful. Yeah.
01:03:23
Speaker
I love that he like when Steve Buscemi's like show me what you got from the vault he like opens the deposit bag that has like his like $43 and he's like I just didn't want you to feel like you didn't get anything and I'm like what a good friend what a nice friend meanwhile he's like please don't include me in this like I'm just here to deposit check and um and it's also like you know it's the 70s because he has sideburns all of a sudden he's got sideburns and longer hair and like we are just in the seventies and like the bank teller. Okay.
01:03:55
Speaker
Okay. Here's a, here's an aerial story. So the bank teller that, uh, Ed takes to the vault. Cause, uh, nor there's like, and you're going to clear out the vault. And he's like, and he takes one of the tellers and she's wearing this dress that has like a collar with points in the back, uh, and the zipper up the back.
01:04:14
Speaker
Now I can feel that polyester, Yeah. In my mind. Is it like a double knit polyester? Double knit, thick, thick heat retention, just basket of stink kind of fabric that like we, if you are not wearing or, or around, um,
01:04:40
Speaker
old clothes and vintage or costumes like that, you just don't know this polyester. You can't even imagine what it feels like. You don't know what it is because like, it's very interesting. I hope people take textiles classes or research textiles. If you're interested, I took a textiles class in college and it was one of my favorite things and learning about the periods of time in which certain synthetics were being made. Not all of them are being made now because some were found to like have polyester be low melting points or be horrible or whatever, you know? Yeah. um
01:05:14
Speaker
This is that kind of freaking plastic fiber. I hope that all of them were not just sweating their lives away because like his suit is made out of that same stuff. Like it's just...
01:05:26
Speaker
not natural fiber it's sort of amazing when like that like that scene opens that it's just like the 70sness of it like hits you in the face so hard it's so hard because you've been going through these like soft colors these super saturated and then you're just like whomp bam that pointy collar that like big ass ties Suddenly there's women on the street wearing pants. Like, whoa, it's crazy. Like wide leg pants, all these things. And so it's just like, it's such an interesting movement through very, very tight designs. And so we go through all that.
01:06:05
Speaker
And then... Where do we go from there? Like I'm blanking. ah i have notes. of ah Bank robbery. i think that's pretty close to the end. And then we get the whole like river funeral sequence where, yeah, where Billy Crudup is describing what Edward's funeral is going to be like, because dying in the hospital is simply not it There is one thing before that.
01:06:35
Speaker
okay Sorry, that is the flashback that's also in the 70s where we see in the present day, Will, the son, finds a deed and a trust. oh And he's like, this is obviously the the second family that you know I always knew my dad had. And he drives out to Spectre and we see what has happened to Spectre.
01:06:57
Speaker
And the town is gone. It's just empty. It's overgrown. Except for one house, which is overgrown. But inside is someone there Jenny.
01:07:07
Speaker
And she's teaching piano lessons. And she's got a million cats. Good for you, girl. I love that for her. and it's right next to a river. we that... now we get to see that it She first lies to Will and she says, yeah, we had an affair.
01:07:25
Speaker
I wondered how long you would ask like take to ask about it, but let's talk about it. And she's got this yeah black dress with like big oversized pattern that's a two-tone kind of thing and witchy boots and like slightly messy blonde hair. And then we go to the past in the 70s and she's wearing this neutral light specter themed dress. It's very light and like lovely with these layers.
01:07:52
Speaker
I want to talk about this dress for a second because this has layers in it and it's not like a fifties party dress. It's this button down the front and it has between the layers, maybe ribbon or other colorful, um, like fabric roses, i think.
01:08:12
Speaker
And it was just this like, Like when you think of pressing flowers between pages, it was like the idea of flower shapes yeah between the fabric layers.
01:08:25
Speaker
And it was this beautiful dress that I was just like, this is gorgeous. And everything we've seen Sandra in, who is the love of Ed's life, has been equally as like flowy. But the patterns that are in her dresses are usually um square.
01:08:43
Speaker
Or like, you know, different geometric shapes. Right. I think we get like a little polka dot yeah kind of stuff. But yeah, there's not that floral softness to yeah her. that it's like claim It's like Jenny's a little bit wilder because she's choosing to live in this dilapidated house.
01:09:00
Speaker
And so this vision is now super colorful in this in this flashback that's like not the drab 70s anymore. It's this super bright 70s. And like I think is Ed wearing like a blue suit again? It's like a it's not the browns anymore.
01:09:17
Speaker
i can't remember. i can't remember. I didn't write it down. But he's not in the same bank 70s. No, it's different. He's a different era. And like Carl's still wearing dark clothes, but um it's just like so light and airy where it's like Spectre has affected ed again. And so it's like he's chasing now what he experienced that first purgatory Yeah.
01:09:43
Speaker
And then he, um yeah, just like saves this town. And it was just like really lovely to see this version of Jenny be so light and all of these things. And then it just like going from there to the real world where everything is a little bit heavier. We're in the hospital now because Ed has had a stroke like while Will was away. And then um in the hospital, there's this soft blue lighting and like slightly purplish lighting in the background. Yeah.
01:10:12
Speaker
And the the hospital blankets and sheets are all this pale, pale yellow. And the curtains are all blue. So the blue and the yellow, this like very precious color palette to Ed and Sandra is like all around Ed as he's dying.
01:10:30
Speaker
And this is when, yeah, the river scene is coming because Will is telling his dad finally ah story. Yeah. And it's a story of like walking to the river because his dad says something about like, i have to get to the river. yeah Right, right. And so he's like – we are going, we're doing this. Now we're like, you know, I'm taking you to the car. Yeah. But like we're, um, you know, I'm seeking you to the elevator and like, I lift you up to put you your, Oh, your car is back. Your charger is here. It looks exactly like it did. And like, yeah, You don't weigh anything. So I can just put you in like, it's, it's a miracle. And like, we go to the river and everyone's there and they're not sad. They're happy to see you. Everyone's happy. You're happy.
01:11:13
Speaker
I'm happy. like And in those colors in the costumes, I was like too, i was too focused that I wasn't actually writing, but everybody's wearing. It's again, a tight color palette, I think where it's like the soft colors. lot of red of red. And like yeah shades of red.
01:11:33
Speaker
yeah And so it's like in his son is taking him down and he's not wearing red. He's wearing his hospital robe and his son is wearing the real world clothes.
01:11:44
Speaker
But they're going down this hill through every person that was in any part of his story. I think the soldiers aren't wearing red. They're wearing their green. Yeah. they're like yeah Not every single person. yeah like there but it's there. It's Yeah. it's like There's like cheerleaders from the high school are there. And there's like people from Spectre. So it's like we see the variety that we have seen throughout the movie. But there's a lot of red throughout the movie. So it's like peppered And it's like a visual language of like.
01:12:11
Speaker
the parts of the world that Ed touched or that touched Ed. So it's like, that's how the red is kind of like communicated through that. And then his son brings him down into the river to his wife, Sandra, who's wearing, I believe a red dress.
01:12:24
Speaker
Yes. In the water. is. I'm looking at a picture of Jessica laying in a river right now. It's maybe like a rosy tone. Yeah. It's like, there's lot of rose. Yeah. Yeah. Like, cause red would be very harsh, but it's like in that red family. Yeah.
01:12:38
Speaker
And yeah, she takes him into the river and then, yeah He closes his eyes, crosses his hands over his chest, goes under the water and becomes this fish. And it is just this lovely, lovely, lovely scene that is so Tim Burton because it feels like a dream sequence. And so Colleen Atwood because it's so tight.
01:13:01
Speaker
Like the shades are so tight. And I'm sure that there was like, you know, post-sign. yeah Sure, but yeah, you have to harmony. I'm going to give credit harmony to the yeah costume team for yeah absolute harmony that was like pretty tight to begin with.
01:13:15
Speaker
Yeah. It's just such a good scene. It's beautiful. it's so beautiful. And then it's like, I think only enhanced by the actual real life funeral where those people do really come. ah and then we get to finally see this the truth that was the starting point of the stories, which we talked about earlier in the episode, but it's just, it's such a, it was so beautiful.
01:13:45
Speaker
And it was amazing. Again, I'm going to say it, this is one of those where the costumes could have gone further, could have gone harder, made it more fantastical, made it more unrealistic.
01:13:58
Speaker
But they just, in every single scene, serve the storytelling at the same temperature as other designs. So that it's working with the theme of the story between fantasy and reality.
01:14:12
Speaker
And like, I think it's just, it's one of those, like, because we've talked before about costuming real life and how hard that can be because it makes it an uncanny valley so like feeling pretty quick where you look at something and you're like, that's not not real. yeah It's like a magazine version of life.
01:14:30
Speaker
But it takes that and it just flows with the what is real and what isn't. so well because all of it could could just be real and it it is it exists in that funeral scene so well like both funerals like the river funeral and the the um the real funeral it's it's just i just felt like the subtleties of colleen atwood are probably like high pitches for some other designers but like she's so skilled And we usually see her doing high, high, high, big things that seeing the more subtle versions of her work is like the thought and the care and the planning is all still present.
01:15:13
Speaker
Yeah. Like i think ah a huge like through line of this entire design is just like the precision yeah that she is like operating under. Yeah. She understands the tone so wonderfully. and like every single thing e special in the movie. And every single thing is like worth looking at and paying attention to.
01:15:39
Speaker
But not everything has to be the most important like visual punch. But like you will be rewarded by looking at everything in the frame. because You described it perfectly.
01:15:50
Speaker
ah The way you just said that was exactly it. Oh my God. Thank you so much. I mean, thank you. Thank you, Colleen Atwood for doing the work. i mean, like, obviously I was here and I nailed it. So it's just as important.
01:16:08
Speaker
Oh my God. Please watch the movie if you haven't seen it. ah if you If it resonates with you, you're probably going to cry at the end. Yeah. you're going to feel You're going to feel some emotions throughout this.
01:16:22
Speaker
All right. Thank you so much for joining us on the journey of Big Fish. um I hope that you ah have seen the movie or decide to watch it if you haven't based us gushing over it for this long.
01:16:36
Speaker
Please join us next week if
Preview of Next Episode on Marie Antoinette
01:16:38
Speaker
you dare. we will be covering the 2006 Sofia Coppola film Marie Antoinette starring Kirsten Dunst and Jason Schwartzman.
01:16:49
Speaker
This is one I've never seen. Oh my God. didn't see it for a long time after it came out, but I have seen it a couple times. It's an interesting film because i think for people, because Marie Antoinette is such a figure in the like cultural I think that...
01:17:10
Speaker
and i think that This movie tries to approach her with some empathy. um But I don't think that it... I don't know. I personally don't think that she comes out looking super amazing. But I do think that she comes out looking like more of a real person than a lot of the conversation.
01:17:35
Speaker
You know, people kind of end... the discussion of and her as a person at the like, let them eat cake kind of thing. And like, yeah, I'm sure she was awful in many ways, but like, it is kind of interesting to be like, who was this person? How did they get to be who they are? And like, what kind of environment creates ah these people that, you know, the people of France felt the need to murder, right?
01:18:05
Speaker
in order to create social change and benefit the people of France in their opinion. I don't know, but there's some really pretty clothes.
01:18:16
Speaker
Yay. So give us a listen for that episode when it comes out. Thank you. Thanks for listening, everybody. thank you. And goodbye. Bye. Bye.