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The Secret Garden & A Little Princess- My First Manic Pixie Dream Girl
26 Plays2 months ago
These movies have everything: The British colonization of India, pretty hair bows, sad rich white children, severe emotional neglect, a stunning rococo-esque garden, racism, all green everything, child labor, beautiful natural textiles. What more could you want?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108071/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_7_nm_1_in_0_q_secret%2520garden
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113670/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_in_0_q_a%2520little%2520prin
Music: Cassette Deck by Basketcase
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Transcript
Introduction to Hosts and Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm Melinda. I'm Ariel. This is Hot Set, the movie podcast about costume design.
Clarification on Origin Stories
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome back to Hot Set. We are going to be talking about two of our, I think, villain origin stories. But not villain origin stories, just our origin stories. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And I'm pretty excited about it. My notes are sparse, but my heart is full.
New Year's Greetings
00:00:39
Speaker
um Happy New Year to all of those who follow the recording calendar. Happy New Year. And we're in it.
00:00:50
Speaker
Oh, my God. It's we're recording this on New Year's Day. Yeah, we are. You're welcome. Mm hmm. We've opened the door and we've like thrown twenty twenty four out into the gutter where she belongs. Maybe a little bit of lighting her on fire. Maybe, you know, ritualistic style.
Double Feature Introduction
00:01:13
Speaker
Yeah. Just, you know, we'll see what twenty twenty five has in store. I don't know that it'll be any better.
00:01:21
Speaker
But in this little corner, we're going to keep talking about stuff that makes us happy, which is zikal stumes in the world. Today we are covering double feature, the secret garden and a little princess. These are the 1993 and is it 95? 95. So early 90s and very formative for for us. Very, very formative. Yeah.
00:01:47
Speaker
And ah i we both separately decided to watch these the same order, which is the order that we're covering them today. And why did you decide to watch Secret Garden first?
00:01:58
Speaker
That is such
Emotional Impact of Films
00:01:59
Speaker
a good question. I don't know if I subconsciously was influenced by the fact that that that movie came out first. And so I like maybe subconsciously was watching them chronologically to when they were made. Also, maybe I feel like I remembered Secret Garden more like in terms of remembering what happens in the movie more.
00:02:21
Speaker
So maybe I figured I would start there so that little princess would be more fresh in my mind because I didn't remember it as well.
Costume Design by Marit Allen
00:02:30
Speaker
I'm not really sure. All I can say is just like that was the vibe of the day, I think. That was the vibe of the day. Fair. i I'm with you. why what it Why did you decide to watch them in that order? Because I knew that both of them were going to hit me in the heart a different at the end. And I was like, how how do I want to cry? Do I want an open-ended cry or a closed-end cry? wow So a little princess offers a closed and emotional experience for us. I feel like Secret Garden is like, whoa, you got the fuck coming.
00:03:05
Speaker
secret garden is like I think we're on the road to being okay.
Setting and Character Representation in Secret Garden
00:03:11
Speaker
Yeah. Maybe. But but let's get into it. We're on the road to being okay. Like the story of the emotions and all that is like, we're we're heading into good things.
00:03:21
Speaker
But we're also heading into World War I. We are. you know and so it's like there's that kind of like Everything is is peachy keen at the end of the movie, but you're like, oh no. But for how long? would wait And then a little princess, they're like, we're going home. Bye. yeah so like We've had enough, honestly. We did it.
00:03:43
Speaker
We're going to be happy and we're going to be safe and we're going to go home and we're never going to say goodbye to each other ever again. Yeah, like there's New York, it's been real bad. Goodbye. Like you don't want to be here anymore. And like, honestly, I can relate. I can really get that. yeah Yes. Yes. RIP your romance with New York.
00:04:07
Speaker
Well, Secret Garden, this film was designed. The costumes were designed by Marit Allen. and um Good taste and last names, I guess.
00:04:19
Speaker
but ah
00:04:22
Speaker
But Miss Ma'am has designed some things. Like, wow. like wow, Little Shop of Horrors, 1986, Dirty Rotten scandal our Scoundrels, 88, like just skipping through The Witches in 1990, Mermaids in 1990. Like doubt fire Mrs. Snow White Attila Terror. I don't know if you've ever seen that, but I love that.
00:04:49
Speaker
Sigourney Weaver plays the evil, the evil stepmother. Um, Smilla's Sense of Snow, which is a movie that I loved growing up and I have not seen in a very, very long time. I don't know that one either. Eyes Wide Shut. Just like a real hard left turn into Eyes Wide Shut of all movies. And then a spin around to K-19, The Widowmaker. Yeah. Brokeback Mountain. Yeah. Like this is expansive. all over the place. Love in the Time of Cholera, I believe is her final movie in 2007. Yeah, she did pass away in 2007. She did pass away. um But her work, much appreciated, has spanned a very great deal of time and has been
00:05:32
Speaker
like definitely influential because let me tell you this movie this this freaking movie is like a heartbreak and a half you know it's it's and it's also directed by Alfonso Cuaron who did that ah Oh no that's the other one. Yeah that's the other one. This is Agnieszka Holland. Yes. And the director did not direct what I was thinking, but she did direct The Killing, which I don't know if you've seen that show. I don't think so.
00:06:07
Speaker
It's a good one. and it's it's one where It's modern, but like the main character has basically like a very limited costume. and it's like wealth I feel like it's well thought out and a bunch of other shows that are really pretty important. Anyway, that's an aside. secret garden is just like This movie that we're talking about, The Secret Garden,
00:06:31
Speaker
is it takes place pre-World War I and I'm not sure exactly when let's say like around 1900. Yeah I think like early 1900s based on the clothes I think. The clothes for sure are very very Edwardian and so this I think that this film is one that like absolutely shaped me as a human person later as a designer because I feel like if you're
00:07:03
Speaker
younger now or if you're entering the field now or if your tastes are being shaped now, you would see things like Bridgerton and be like, yes, hell yes, let's get all over that. yeah I'm not saying anything denigrating against Bridgerton at all. I think that there have been very creative things taken from it that I think are very interesting and it's very visually exciting.
00:07:23
Speaker
but there's a lot going on. There's like saturated colors and like bright things and a lot of different fabric types. It's a fantasy exactly of that period in many ways, especially visually, clothing-wise. and It's like a feast for your eyes. Yeah, but it's it's like based on history, but it's doing its own creative thing.
00:07:51
Speaker
And I don't know if people watching it necessarily recognize that it's not realistic, which is fine. You don't have to be realistic. And I don't think that they pretend to be realistic. But I just think that yeah that like if that's your only sort of experience of that kind of costume stuff, you just wouldn't know that, which is, you know,
00:08:16
Speaker
you know, we hope, like, I hope that people like Bridgerton, they would like, branch out to other things just because there's so many cool things you could watch. Absolutely. And so, like, my personal tastes generally don't flow usually, unless like something I'm working on, the director is like, oh, I'm seeing this. you know I usually go away from the super bright saturated things, especially when it's like a period thing, um unless it's like taking place in a culture where that exists. It's part of the, yeah. It is, yeah. And then I would be looking at like what dyes would be present, looking at things like that. Yeah, what is the talent of the time?
00:08:59
Speaker
Yeah. They have. And like what kind of print technology was being used over here, over there. And I also just like have a huge love for natural fibers and like that's what it was. back then. That's what they had. They didn't have chemicals like that. They didn't have polyester. Those came around later on in the century, and they were a new technology. It's like the organic food conversation, right? We call it organic now, but that's just what it was. That was just food. put stuff in the ground and stuff came out. That's just what you did. I really love a lot of natural fibers because there's also, for me, thinking of who made those clothes, where did they come from, and who's repairing them, whose hands are involved.
Visual Storytelling and Themes
00:09:50
Speaker
We've talked about this many a time. And so the costumes in the secret garden are pretty understated. Like they're very period and they're for wealthy people. We also see not as wealthy people, like the kids are wealthy and their uncle's wealthy. But like we see the people that work in the house. Yeah. And it's like the staff that work in the house are well appointed, you know, because they're representing the family that they're working for. So they're not wearing things that have been worn to death.
00:10:21
Speaker
like No, like because that would look bad on you as the employer, you wouldn't want that. But they are a different class and we do see that class divide for sure. yeah um and there's a lot There's a lot of like visual conversation about that and there's also some verbal conversation about it that happens in this movie that like I picked up on as a kid but wasn't like really focusing on because I was like, no, I'm here to cry, make me cry. and um Where's that garden I've heard so much about? Show me the damn garden. and um But like minute one of the movie, we are in India and we are with Mary, um our main protagonist. And she's being dressed by her aya and another woman who works for her family. And um so we are in colonized India.
00:11:07
Speaker
her family are English colonizers. Yeah, they are 100% colonizers. like She is speaking you know like over everything that we're seeing and she's talking about how she hated it. It was hot and it was lonely. and Well, she like it's so amazing to me like watching this as an adult and just being like,
00:11:29
Speaker
Wow, this is insane emotional neglect happening here. Like it was crazy. And it's like I as an adult and like I as a kid, right? Like you could you just felt because you were a kid, you you felt so close and like we were similar ages as the actress. the yeahctors like We weren't that far off. And so it's like we felt it and we were like in it and we could understand the motivations of the kids very easy. um And as an adult, I'm like, yeah, look at this child of colonizers who's just being raised in this place.
00:12:08
Speaker
And she's alone, but she's also extra alone because she's being told that she's better than everybody around her. Just the poison of that kind of, it's insane to me. It's just like, oh my God. And it's just like,
00:12:25
Speaker
I'm happy that these Indian women in the background actually have faces, but they are only with us for like two minutes. Yeah, we don't. Yeah. Unfortunately, we don't spend a lot of time. And you know, like we're, we're seeing like a Maharaja, we're seeing like wealthy, we're seeing like different casts, I think of Indian folks right um at like a party, a little bit behind the scenes. But that's like,
00:12:49
Speaker
ooh like four minutes of the movie and then there's a catastrophic earthquake and we snap to being on board a ship and like talking in England and so we are kind of paying for I think her upbringing for the rest of the movie and that story is being told a little bit through costume in a way that I really love. We're like we see her in this very, very lacy, like satiny kind of like lavender dress at the very beginning where she's supposed to be like this untouched little doll. And she basically got dressed up for this party and then she's not allowed to go to the party because she got dirty in that dress. Right. Which is, oh my God. But she's just like,
00:13:35
Speaker
She's just this accessory to her parents who are just in love with themselves and don't care about her. Like don't even talk to her. They don't look at her. They don't spend time. No, they just dismiss her. It takes like three seconds to establish this, but you understand it immediately. You understand it and you understand it deeply. And every hissy fit that she throws is just seeking negative attention because she can't get positive attention. right? And so that's the information we're given from the get go. And then from there, we see Mary in very different clothes. Like we don't see that like satiny party dress. No, she gets immediately put into like a morning. Morning clothes. Yeah. Like M-O-U. It's very like
00:14:24
Speaker
at the time was very specific about what you're supposed to wear when somebody important to you dies. and and But it was interesting to me thinking about that in the context of like all of these like rigid social like rules regarding like dress, especially like like wearing morning clothes, only really apply to people that can afford to follow them. Oh, 100%. And aside from that, too, is like the style of clothing that she's wearing. she There's a whole conversation when she first gets to Misslethwaite with um mar Martha. Oh, God bless Martha. I love Martha. But also, Medlock, because med like yeah Mary wakes up and she's like,
00:15:11
Speaker
I'm still in my night dress and my luck is like, then get dressed. And she's like, I can't. So in her upbringing is so this like wealthy thing where like we see markers of wealth throughout time, history, style everywhere. And one of those major markers is the more money you have, the more people you pay to do things for yourself that you could do for yourself. And with her family, that was literally getting dressed.
00:15:38
Speaker
She did not do that. And so also like throughout history, the wealthier you were, you didn't have closures in the front. They were strictly in the back because it meant that meant someone else was doing it for you. yeah Yeah. And so like she just didn't know how to do it.
00:15:57
Speaker
like You know, she could put two and two together, but she was like, I've just never done that before. And she is like, her closing if you can imagine a spoiled child, multiply it by like 10 and that and like she plays it really well because at the beginning I'm just like, Oh, this kid is the worst. Like she's terrible. She's just this gremlin and she's also just so angry. And this little girl plays that so well. She plays it amazingly because I'm just like, I don't know if I want to like give her a hug or like sit her down like eye to eye and like tell her that she needs to stop. Yeah, like she does it very well. She is not likable at the beginning of this movie. She's she's just so closed off and there was like I think a lot of people like really
00:16:46
Speaker
understand that feeling of like not ah being a complete fish out of water no matter where you are, not ever being able to do it right, like how you express. And so you see that like a lot. And with her in morning clothes and in heavier clothes, because now she's in a very cold, moist place when she was used to India with a hotter climate,
00:17:08
Speaker
and a drier climate, like the clothes are night and day. And she's got to have a scar for the hat. Yeah, but still so Victorian, Edwardian flip over inspired, where no matter where you are, you're wearing 7,000 layers, which might be thinner. Which honestly, I would, because it's too cold. I really, really wanted that hat, the knit Tam that she wears, that orangey. I can't see.
00:17:36
Speaker
i i I may be making that hat in 2025. I see. It's 2025. We know that the world is on fire, so make the make the hat. like the hat I know, honestly. I know. it fake like I always think of that as like the skipping rope hat where she's like yeah being put outside and like, can't see. I um i feel like the main thing in my notes about this movie is that this movie is about class solidarity.
Character Development and Power Dynamics
00:18:09
Speaker
yeah Whatever that is, like this movie is about people that are aligning themselves with people in the same social class with them. listen like Whatever it is or whichever one they're trying to be in. There's like so much in here that I didn't even consider until this watch through because I was reading about it and then I was like, themes?
00:18:30
Speaker
oh and i was like oh and so like because i mean i watched this as a kid and i haven't really watched it in my adulthood no i hadn't seen it as an adult yeah in a really long time and so there's also like kind of a patriarchy thing happening in here oh where it's like 1000 where kind of where mary's role is like if you really strip it down, she is there to like make the young Lord like super healthy and happy so that he can take his father's place and thus ensure the line. like keeps There's like kind of the era's point of view on disability in there that got a little bit cleaned up for the 90s.
00:19:18
Speaker
And it was like something that was just like really fascinating to me throughout this movie is like whoever who's in charge in any like any scene like the person in charge like shifts depending on like which characters are around because like um like Maggie Smith plays like the head housekeeper. She has authority over Mary because she tells Mary its that that is so she has authority over Martha.
00:19:47
Speaker
She does not have authority over Colin, who is Mary's cousin that is like bedridden when we meet him. And ah because he is the eventual owner of the house, he's the heir. So like he tells her what to do in certain scenes because even though he's 10,
00:20:13
Speaker
because he's like he's in charge or like he starts exercising his authority partway through the movie. And multiple times, the idea, once from Martha and then again from Mrs. Medlock, it comes up like, if if I fail at this, I will be fired. and like Yes. And the response to that is like pure terror. Because like when Martha finds yeah Mary with Colin and like Mary's not supposed to know that Colin exists, if anybody just knows the story of this. Which is like insane. Like that is an insane. This is a gothic like little kids story. It really is. you know like like Like Mary spends the first 30 minutes being like, What's that horrible sound coming from like down the hallway of 100 rooms away and Martha is like, Oh, never you mind. Like there's a whole and child in this house that is being kept secret from her. It is. own That's like hidden by a tapestry like there's just crazy so much but yeah, there's this like like I love that the costumes that Martha and like the the house staff are wearing because yeah, they've got like There's some unity in there, especially with like the kitchen staff, but like you're seeing more like people who are used to living and working in this country house where they don't have guests and
00:21:37
Speaker
their lord does not necessarily care enough to want them to look like the staff in like Downton Abbey, you know, they're wearing like a unified uniform. They're all wearing their version of it. Yes. yeah and like they're not They're very clean, like taken care of all that kind of stuff, but it's not like they're being seen by anybody but themselves, so they're right just trying to do the house proud, if you will. But like Martha has this like sweet apron that has flowers all over it. It's so cute. It's just like so sweetly representative of her, where it's like she doesn't have really anything to like create personality, right? Because it's like the needs, the time, the amount of money that that would be worth, and she's probably sewing it all herself.
00:22:27
Speaker
We should also note that she's like 12. She is so young. She's just a child. Maybe max like 14. A couple years older. Yes. And she's just like, has to carry herself with so much wisdom. Like an adult. Yeah. Because she basically is being treated as an adult and she's working and she's probably working for a long time. Yes.
00:22:52
Speaker
But I just love this idea of like either Martha herself sitting and sewing this apron that has these flowers or like somebody who loves her very much like doing that and being like, here you go. And and and she only wears it for like, she only wears it in like spring and summer. Like she doesn't wear it during like the winter part of the movie because it like you get to see that very quiet Yeah, you get to see that quiet like, oh, this is a summer and a spring thing. And so I'm going to pack it away. But you don't like see the the action of that. It's just in its absence. Right. But with the class solidarity thing, yeah, Mrs. Medlock, Dame Maggie Smith is like a terrifying figure. But
00:23:33
Speaker
apparently not that terrifying to the rest of the staff because like whenever she is having a tough moment, Martha supports her and like understands her fears and like that really hit me really hard this time where towards the end of the movie when Colin's like I'm gonna do whatever the fuck I want and Mrs. Medlock is like but you're gonna die!
00:23:57
Speaker
like she's literally trying to keep this kid alive because she thinks like they all believe that he's allergic to everything yeah that he's just like a sickly child that he can't walk like he doesn't know how to walk when we meet him because no one ever tried to teach him how to walk nope and like you know his father just basically like dipped out heartbreak and whatever and So they're just like we believe the story that we've been told like and I'm guessing that his mother died because they mentioned like that She fell off the swing and then she died and I think she was pregnant with him. and Yeah so like a birth yeah ah Yeah, at some point someone's
00:24:33
Speaker
Mary's like you told me she fell off the swing and they're like she she she was pregnant She had the baby too soon Yeah, and I think that contributed to like them thinking that there'd be something wrong with him He was like born a little too early than he wasn't full yeah like sized probably and like scary and super traumatic that like his mother died and like during the childbirths, that would have been horrific. His whole life he's just been told that he can't do anything and so he's like the the other side of the coin to marry where he's just a little shit full of fury. like that In that way they are like they're perfect
00:25:09
Speaker
companions because they understand each other's like complete neglect. They've never been told that they could be anything. No. And yet they're constantly expected to be something. Yeah, they're except they're expected to be the scions of their houses, essentially. Which I'm just like, this is poop.
00:25:29
Speaker
This is why empires fall, people. 100%. This is why our empire is falling. People are just failing upward into landed gentry every day. And like we have this like interesting relationship, which you see in things like Downton Abbey, where these young people are the landed gentry. They are the ones with money. They're the ones who are wearing the fancy clothes, eating the fancy foods. And the people around them are taking care of them. yeah Like not just working for them, but taking care. And like deeply ah being invested in the outcome yes for like multiple reasons other than just like, you know, part of it is job security, but also it's like this idea that this is, this is the way society is and this is the way society is going to stay. Yeah. Which is like very, very indicative of an era, right? A time and a specific culture, but like,
00:26:29
Speaker
I mean, we meet Dickon, who is Martha's, like, magical, and a more... Her little animal whisperer brother. Yeah, who just, like, exists outside of the house. I love him. He is 100% not of this world. He is, like, a little sprite. He's a little tiny sprite green man. Like, he just rides... He... Okay.
00:26:50
Speaker
I was like, as a little girl, I was like, do I have a crush on Dickon or do I want to be Dickon? And I think as an adult, I'm like, I wanted to be Dickon, like, because I wanted to ride my pony all across the moors at all seasons with crow soot and like be stripping branches and going, it's wick, it's green inside.
00:27:10
Speaker
and being able to plant anything and understand what anything was. And then just like having my little, oh, I rescued that lamb the other day. You know, just like all these little things, like what a magical, but his relationship to these two wealthy kids is that he just sees them as kids and he just sees them as like friends. And he, he recognizes that they have a difference in status, but because he's in the wild with them and he's teaching them, he's like, he knows more. He like has, yeah.
00:27:41
Speaker
But he's also like understanding that he's not overstepping right in any way. you know like he's We never see in their relationship in this telling you know like that he's ever overstepping at all. Throughout the whole movie, we don't like even though Colin and Mary are wealthier. Their clothes aren't so well-appointed that they have, like they are kids and they're being dressed practically by the people of the house. They're being dressed well with like really good hardy fabrics and like nice things that are clean, but there's not like a shit ton of beading or embroidery no or any of those things because they're not
00:28:22
Speaker
in this situation, they're not meant to be accessories in that way. No, they're not in society. No. And so it's like, Holland is just supposed to exist as this ephemeral creature that is the son to his father. And like, Mary barely registers on his radar. They're like, whatever. And so the people in the house who are caring for them recognize that like, Mary's a kid. We're just going to keep kicking her outside every day so that she just goes and wanders around. So she needs to have like a little pinafore.
00:28:51
Speaker
to keep her dress clean. She needs to have the tights, the boots, like the hat, big coat. And there's this moment when Mary first gets into the garden. that really kind of like hit me this time where it's we've seen her talking about how she can't dress herself and then like we start to see her kind of like defrost with Martha yeah and like Martha's like her first friend and even though she's very mean to her constantly very mean to her but then she like flips back and forth like really fast and Martha like has this older sister
00:29:25
Speaker
relationship with her where she's like, okay, I forgot everyone, but like, I'm still gonna put the scarf over your face. She'd be like, Martha, you're the stupidest person I've ever met. And Martha's just like, ha ha ha, anyway. Sure thing, sure thing. And so we see Martha like dressing her up with that Tam and the scarf and handing her like the jump rope and everything.
00:29:44
Speaker
But then Mary gets to the garden and it's the first time we see her take off a piece of clothing or handle a piece of clothing herself. She settles into the grass, like into the dry grasses because the bird has like shown her, you know, that there's like, there's the ex there's like a flower and there's like a flower, like not a flower, but um kind of like a daffodil.
00:30:06
Speaker
Yeah, the um there's like a shoot coming out of the ground. And so it's like at the same time that we see that there's still life in this garden, Mary is the human version of the garden. like the life is that we see is the first time that as a viewer, we see her taking agency over her own self, which is she's warm. So she's going to take off the scarf and she's going to undo the jacket. And it's like she's, she's, she's here now. She's present and she's starting to like participate in life. And I just like, I love that. It's a tiny little
00:30:43
Speaker
blink and you miss it if you're not thinking about it moment. And I just loved it because like the Mary we meet at the beginning would be like, well, I guess I'm just going to, I don't know, dive overexposure. Yeah. Like I'll just die in this coat rather than like unbutton it, I guess. And now she's like, oh, I'll just like tuck this in my pocket and I'll do this. And like, I just, it it's just like made me this type. I was like, Mary.
00:31:11
Speaker
But I just like freaking, I love these clothes. Like they all just very much feel like things that I just like want to touch. Cause you know that there's a bunch of silk and a bunch of like wool.
00:31:21
Speaker
oh yeah they're really there's so much there's There's so much delightful wool and like linens and things happening in this movie. It's really great. and yeah it does It feels like ah someone who deeply understands the period yeah and wanted to render it accurately to history. like there's There's so many shots where we see you know Mary and Colin at various times, like, they're like waking up, they're like, he's like undergoing like weird Victorian medical procedures and stuff like there's a lot of, of times where we're seeing the characters like not 100% like dressed like they're in pajamas, they're nightgown, they're in like shift, they're in like partial clothing, which sounds weird, but I promise it's not. um But there's so much attention paid to all the layers of clothing to be like accurate, to be reflective of what people actually wore, to be
00:32:30
Speaker
Accurate to like the kind of colors and like textures that the period has like it just is very Well done if you want something that feels realistic Absolutely and like to jump on that the hair as well like yeah when we see her she's got braids her hair is down and And then the time that she meets her uncle the first time, they do her hair like she's older. It's so bizarre looking. And it's so perfect though. And they put her in like her nicest dress, which has like little like eye lit lace details and like little ribbon. Like we don't see her in that in a day today because there's no reason for her to wear that day to day. No reason. But it's like you're being presented to the
00:33:14
Speaker
the patriarch of the family, we're going to dress you up like little, but to den like shove you in this room with this c creepy man. With these dogs and just be like, no explanation. Bye. Good luck. which ok Also, did you think that that Archie, Mr. Archibald Craven, that he looked like Colin Farrell? Because I really thought that he looked like Colin Farrell.
00:33:36
Speaker
I get that. I get that. I think that
Emotional Reflection and Themes
00:33:38
Speaker
I had seen him in this before I ever saw Colin Farrell in anything. Same. This actor was just like... Just that guy. Yeah, just that guy. And like so sad. Like the most like gothic-y. He was so gothic. What did you think about his long hair?
00:33:56
Speaker
I thought that it was the easiest shortcut into telling us that this man doesn't give a shit about anything since his wife died. Yeah. And that he doesn't he doesn't want to change anything because he wants it to look like he doesn't care. And it's the same thing with like his son. He doesn't have a relationship with his son because his heart is broken. And if he does anything to fix his heart, then that means somehow he that what he felt for his wife wasn't real. you know yeah The house is kind of like is showing that by virtue of the garden. you know like Everybody who works for him is so proud of their work that they're not going to let the house fall apart. But he lets his wife's wing rot. So that's just like gone to you know
00:34:43
Speaker
just ruins. And so I think that that was his version of doing that to himself and that was their quickest way to tell us that as the audience. Yeah, because it is really shocking, like it's so out of step with what was you know in fashion in the period, to but to hat because his hair is like like below the shoulder. He's got this like his beautiful wavy brown locks like just swaying in the wind. like They're just moving around. like He looked like he's ah on the cover of a romance novel oh yeah in the best way. He he has like a difference with his spine, and so that's a bunch. Right.
00:35:27
Speaker
So I think that he's just, I think, number one, he's a character that's never really cared necessarily, um or at least hasn't cared the same way that other people have about how he's been received because his body is different anyway. Yeah. And he's so rich. he doesn't have to care. He's so rich that he doesn't have to care and we do see him like at least we see part of his face like beyond a shoulder in like an old photo from before Colin was born and he was just like young and he probably cared a little bit more then because he was like you know
00:35:57
Speaker
in love. look Yeah, he was so all that stuff. But he just yeah, I just understood immediately that like he's wearing a suit that is like too large for him. Yeah, like he doesn't and not like too large. Like it's so baggy. It's just that it's not super tailored. Yeah, it's not quite. Yeah. And it's also not made out of like a bunch of materials and layers that like shout I am probably the wealthiest man in the room like Right. It's very understated. yeah He's wearing his own version of morning clothes because he's basically just in black the whole time. Yeah. um But I speaking of the color palette, ah the color palette is very it's like basically it's pretty dark. It's a visual neutral. but Yeah.
00:36:40
Speaker
it's there's like a lot of color in there but it's not like saturated. There's not a lot of bright, yeah. Like one of the brightest things might be that hat that Mary has because it's orange. There's not a lot of that like fit, there's not a lot of those warm no like tones. And so what I love about that is that it lets the the natural world speak for itself. So every time we're out, oh, also the inside of the house, like it lets, yeah, like Colin's room has a bunch going on in there because he's literally like jailed in there. So it has to have some life to it. And like anytime the kids go outside, the world is
00:37:25
Speaker
either like winter-blasted, but still like fresh, so be your yeah or spring, and the most beautiful garden you've ever flippant seen is just like, holy cow. Like, Melinda, this is where the first but first like, Batch of Tears came.
00:37:46
Speaker
The music is out of control. right and so When it becomes spring and everything is just like, ha you don't like a get the quarrelal like you've got these like little spring baby animals and birds flying. They're stepping into a like a Rococo painting. Oh my God. It was in Spain. It's incredible. and there's this like there I don't understand the construction of this garden. It feels like it's in the ruins of an older house.
00:38:15
Speaker
Okay, so I think we're like a coaster. Here's my guess. Here's my guess on that. um I took a class once where we spent the entire semester just studying everything about like art and culture in the Regency period. So that's like the early 1800s. So we're like 100 years before this movie. And we went in, we actually we went into the beginning of the Gothic period. um So My take on that is people purposefully built ruins during this time for the spooky vibes. Like, people think that Instagram people invented, like, spooky vibes. Please. Please.
00:39:00
Speaker
you freaking wish you did. These people, and this is only weird, crazy, rich people, obviously, but people in England, they were so obsessed with Gothic ruins that they purposefully built fake, like medieval ruins on their property to make it look Obviously, it's been there forever and to have like cool, spooky, ghostly vibes. So I think that at some point, someone who like that family yeah built ruins at the house. Let me tell you then, they did such a good job. It looks great. Because like they have all these like corridors.
00:39:45
Speaker
This garden has a like a door that closes off. Yeah, like archways. So it has like all these different, like this is not a tiny backyard, this garden. No, okay. It's got avenues and some of the avenues are covered with like massive yeah like leaves that are like dinosaur sized. They're likes like huge tropical, which I'm like England, you wish. No. Yeah, I'm like where? was You have your country is filled with tiny leaves that can make it through like a harsh winter. These are like giant like platter size tropical. No, I'm sorry. Watching like Mary disappear into that at the end of the movie when she's like trailing her finger and she's like my uncle learns to laugh.
00:40:31
Speaker
and I finally learned to cry. loing Oh my god. Also like I'm kind of like I want to see an architectural plan of the gardens of this house because like it's like walled in but then and like no one I don't know. I feel like this garden exists in some kind of time and space warp. I don't understand where it is on the property that you wouldn't know it's there, but also there's an open field next to it, and also there's a wall, and then also there's not a wall. I don't understand. I feel like it's less that people don't know it's there. It's that they're just like, we're not allowed to go there anymore. And then the younger people, they just don't tell them about it. And the gardeners are the only ones who would be there anyway. So they just don't touch it. How big is the rest of your garden that this whole section of it is just like, we don't talk about Bruno? I mean, it's freaking massive. Even when she's riding up to it, it's like, whoa. It's like when they pull up in the carriage and freaking Mrs. Medlock is eating fried chicken. And she whips out a hard-boiled egg. And she's just like,
00:41:45
Speaker
Wait, she's eating fried chicken? Yeah. she's So when she picks up Mary and they're in the carriage from the docks, like going out to the country, she has a picnic basket on her lap. And I'm like, did you offer any of that food to that starving child? Absolutely not. Maybe Mary was like, fuck you and fuck your food. But literally, Dave Maggie Smith is eating a chicken leg that's like ah like a maybe a roasted chicken, but like, yeah, probably a roasted chicken. But she's just eating like a chicken leg.
00:42:15
Speaker
in the carriage. When you think someone can't be more iconic than they are, they are. about of But it's just like she's just eating out of his basket and then they pull up and she's like done eating the chicken and she's just oh yeah there's mistlethwaite and she pulls out a friggin hard boiled egg and she's like well when we get there I'm gonna go to bed for a while because like it's been a long night riding around in this carriage.
00:42:41
Speaker
like oh my god That is so real. like i don't i i As a kid kid, I was like this woman in this like dark, stodgy clothing who just like bustles around everyone. She's just such a terror. And now I'm like, I am you and I love you for that.
00:43:01
Speaker
like I am you and you are me and we are each other. We are all together. So I love it. You know, the weirdest thing to me about this movie is that if you asked me before I rewatched it when it took place, I'd be like, I don't know, the 1840s? Like I was so wrong about when I thought this movie took place. I don't know why. Well, it's because that's kind of the magic of like the Victorian era. Yes, there are chunks of Victorian era that like super duper recognizable, but your brain goes Victoriana and it's yeah an umbrella. And especially when it's, time you want to be yeah, old Zw but like, boom. And like Victoria was there for so long. And so like,
00:43:44
Speaker
so many things fall under that umbrella that you're like, I don't know, late 1800s turn of the century. But like, no, we're closer. Like she was definitely not the, this is definitely Edwardian. Like she is not. Now that we know the silhouettes and stuff, it's like, Oh yeah, we are in the new century for sure. Yeah. But I just, I, I love the clothing in this cause it, it's like everybody feels,
00:44:11
Speaker
feels clean, except for like, you know, dick and who's meant to be in the dirt, but he doesn't look like he's ragged. He looks like he's taken care of and yeah he works outside. He just works outside and he works with animals, but he's not like holes all over the place. like right right He's got people and he has like, you know, a home and he's got like people who are teaching him if to like, you know, take care of his own clothing and wash it, etc. And so it's just like everything feels lived in, but also new. And I think that that's because it's a higher class.
00:44:51
Speaker
situation where it's like we have to represent just in case the Lord comes home and He he wouldn't want to see us looking ready. Right. Or like if you they have to go... it's Yeah, it's it's one of those weird situations where like You work for someone who's rich, so like anything that you do reflects on that. the You are being held to a different standard of behavior and how you're supposed to look. That's the same now. like it's oh yeah same It's the same thing. It's just me it's just business casual now. yeah like right right and And with this whole movie, there's like a magic about it.
00:45:29
Speaker
so much magic in like the cinematography, the soundtrack, like the overall design. Yeah, it's really beautiful. It's beautiful. And then they fucking stab you in the chest at the very end with Linda Ronstadt, Winter Light. And you're just like, how dare you? How dare you do this to me right now? It's just like this beautiful thing and The real talk outside of costume, of course, you know, there's like attitudes that are that are an issue in this, but that's also something that we kind of primed before when we like mentioned that we'd be covering these is that these were written by is it Francis Hodgson Burnett?
00:46:09
Speaker
yeah And she was alive in the 1800s and during these times. And so her attitudes are very present. And like these are actually like more modernized. They've been modernized. big partners in here that have yeah theyre they have more empathy for people than you should necessarily expect from the period. Like they do. It's not enough, ah but it is within the attitudes of the time. I felt like they they could be worse than they were. And it's also like, these are stories, both of these, The Secret Garden and The Little Princess are about young white children.
00:46:50
Speaker
a little bit wealthy, like the prime characters are wealthy white little girls who are absolutely benefiting off of colonization and the romanticization of India. And yeah in this one, there's not, and there's also, yeah, like a conversation about disability that's happening here yeah that is,
00:47:18
Speaker
I don't think I have enough brain cells to like... dig into aside from like, you know, Colin and his, what everybody thinks are differences and how they treat that and how little agency they actually give him and how they talk about his dad and his differences. And also like they have masks in this movie and as kids, they have cloth medical masks with like the double strings, which yeah as kids, we didn't live through a pandemic. We didn't live through any of this. so It's like we had seen masks before, but like on surgeons. and so like Seeing that, I was like, whoa, that's the thing that we have now. and it also like It was interesting because I did not remember that at all because I didn't have any kind of emotional feelings about face masks like I do now. yeah but I'm like, whoa, we are literally like if if we had to revert
00:48:15
Speaker
from cars back to carriages is what that like felt like. right A little bit of an extreme. That's kind of what that felt like. Seeing them wearing the masks and hearing Colin talk about like spores and stuff. I was like, okay, so we are in the era where like germ theory exists and people understand that there are things that you cannot see that can make you sick. so That was one of those things where I was like, I didn't remember that at all, but that would have put put it forward in time. Yeah. Because they didn't have that awareness yeah until very much ready for this story. That made it like too close. Yeah, it was it was wild. But like, yeah, this was the first time that I watched this movie really thinking about the costumes because like as a kid, I I loved them, but I didn't really have the full language to say why.
00:49:12
Speaker
And I just love how they support the story, but they're not dominating. They're not meant to be what you're looking at. they are a vehicle for the storytelling to like make things cohesive. and i Yeah, you understand who people are. You understand like what people are up to. You understand like what's going on emotionally for people without it having to like bang you over the head. like It's just part of it. It's just in there. And it's a very beautifully made movie. So if you haven't seen it, I definitely recommend seeing it, even if it just is something to add to your your conversational arsenal about
00:49:50
Speaker
storytelling and old attitudes, if that's where you want to begin and end.
Introduction to A Little Princess
00:49:55
Speaker
But um yeah, this was a big deal. Last thing that i I would feel remiss without mentioning is the gardener's hat.
00:50:08
Speaker
with the little like carved the animal heads. Are they all animal heads or are they duck heads? I know, like I was trying to figure out one of them didn't quite look like a duck, but I i was like, are they all, cause there's three. I was like, are they all ducks? Is that one a different animal?
00:50:26
Speaker
I needed more time with that hat to understand these questions. That hat felt like a hat that you would see today. you know It was with like ridiculous. A proud gardener slash hunter, birder. But like it felt like this man lovingly carved each of those hats. Like stuck him on his hat somehow. Also, is he the same actor that plays the ah servant man whose name I cannot remember from ever after? Yes. Okay. Just checking. I was like, I'm Maurice. ah Crazy old Maurice. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I was like, I'm pretty sure that's him. And he's just like present in some of these magical moments. Just there. Okay. You want to talk about our next friend?
00:51:14
Speaker
Oh, the little princess herself? The little princess that could. Oh my god. This one, i I really didn't remember that much about this movie other than like the general feeling and vibes. I really forgot huge plot points of this movie or like didn't absorb them at the time. I had not seen this movie since I was a kid, ah but in case ah case anyone hasn't. So the story is about Sarah. Sarah lives with her dad in India. ah Her mom has passed away ah when she's a baby or very little.
00:51:56
Speaker
But this movie takes place during World War I. So Sarah's dad decides to join the like British fighting forces, because they're British. So he sends he takes her to New York City to go to a girls' boarding school, I believe that her mom went yeah to when she was a kid. That's why they end up there. So he leaves her there. He goes off to fight the war.
00:52:25
Speaker
his whole like readen regiment gets like wiped out ah except him, but he gets amnesia. and he doesn't and so Everyone thinks that he's dead because they're all dead and he doesn't remember who he is to be like, I'm alive. so All of a sudden, like the the rug gets like pulled out from under Sarah at this boarding school because suddenly she doesn't have money anymore.
00:52:52
Speaker
So the head mistress lets her stay at the boarding school only as a servant, as they call her.
Themes of Wealth and War
00:53:00
Speaker
So she is moved up to the attic to live with Becky, who is like already employed there. Becky is a young black girl who's employed at the school and not like not part of So, like, she's ostracized and treated terribly. And Sarah... Terribly. Terribly. Sarah is put in the same position as Becky. They're living together in the attic. Sarah is working in the school. her Then unbeknownst to her, her dad ends up next door, still with amnesia, with, like, a bandage. Like, his eyes have been, like, damaged. Yeah, he was attacked with mustard gas.
00:53:45
Speaker
So it was like temporary blindness and also the amnesia that they hope is temporary. Right. um And Sarah is like struggling next door at the boarding school being treated terribly. ah She ends up seeing her dad and he like he takes his blindfold off eventually and he like sees her, he still doesn't recognize her. She is in the process of being arrested by the police for thievery in the rain, about to be put in a paddy wagon with Becky.
00:54:21
Speaker
ah When the dad has a sudden like rush of like return of his memory. Okay. I'm going to hop in right there because there's a character that we have not brought up yet. Oh, please. Ram Das, who is an Indian man and he has a monkey. So he lives in this house with this, like, he loses like an aid to this older man who has a lot of money who ends up bringing back the dad.
00:54:49
Speaker
because the dad was in the same regiment with his son and his son died. yeah And so Ram Dass is like, well, if you bring him home and his memories come back, he can tell you what happened to your son. And so right Ram Dass is used as this like magical person of color in this story. I was really struggling um when I was like reading the synopsis like beforehand. They referred to Ram Dass as the that man's servant. And I was like, that's wrong. That is categorically wrong, but I don't know what to call him. It's like I i don't know their relationship. Exactly. But like... No. But Ram Das is very clearly a very wealthy man. he's he's well He's like a higher status. And I just don't know what position he fills, but it's like... I don't know. Whatever that position is, he's a very observant man. And so he sees this little girl. And yes, again, mentioning this is from a romanticized, very very colonizer perspective of the beauties of India.
00:56:02
Speaker
and about British colonial colonized India. And um so this little girl is definitely like prospering off of these things. But what we're supposed to understand is that she and her father have this like very magical way of seeing the world. She was honestly like my first manic pixie dream girl. Oh my God, she's such a manic pixie dream girl. Wow. And her father,
00:56:27
Speaker
are in love with the Ramayana and like the stories of of like Indian myths and religious you know stories. And so she has this whole story that she keeps talking about, about like Rama and what happens to him. and And her father, the actor who plays her father, Liam Cunningham is cast as Rama. So he's painted in blue. Yeah. I had a lot of feelings about that. Yeah. Well, the thing is that like, I've always had a lot of feelings about that. And then I thought about it this time and I realized maybe part of their justification for doing that for, for doing it is because a lot of children.
00:57:07
Speaker
when they're being told stories by their parents, envision their parent as the person. Yeah. Like psychologically, I understand that choice 100% in practice. You're like, okay, that is a choice that you made in 1995. Didn't need to do it. We could have cast another Indian human person for sure. We we could have and and yet, and we didn't, we didn't. And, um,
00:57:34
Speaker
So there's this like magical realism that's happening like throughout and it's just like beautiful. But Brahm Dass is seeing Sarah through a window that's like three and a half feet away. it's part of But it feels like it's like he's right there because these windows are head to toe, like they're massive windows. And he's seeing Sarah and Becky being treated like shit. And he's hearing Sarah tell the stories of the Romayana to the other girls. So he's understanding that she grew up in India and they have this commonality that she knows his home and that she knows some of
Cultural Influences and Friendship
00:58:11
Speaker
his stories. And so he, I feel like is compassionate for that and that he's also understanding that like, she is not in a position of power at all. And so and she kind she puts the yellow rose on their door. Yeah. And she's, she thinks of other people, even though she's like literally in the worst position that she could be in her whole life. Like everything has been taken from her, including like hope, like she chooses to be kind to everyone.
00:58:41
Speaker
And even when she had the money, she was still kind. And so he sees that. And he makes some connections, I do believe, that I feel like he knows that her her father is there. like but is like He almost kind of looks at the camera. like yeah you like He's like, i'm OK. I got it. He like is part of um Captain Crew's rehabilitation. and Right.
00:59:07
Speaker
is like, oh, do you know India? And Captain Crew's like, there's something so familiar. But no, I i don't, you know, and he knowing he's like, he's so scared. remember Like he just, why I jumped in was because he doesn't, Captain Crew doesn't just remember that Sarah is his daughter, Ram Das.
00:59:30
Speaker
Hauls ass across the room as the police are dragging her out into the rain screaming He just stands next to Captain crew with his look on his face like like really what this should happen really and just Looks at him and Captain crew goes and it's like Ram Dass is supposed to exude this like glitter air. That's like And now you have your memories. And I'm just like, OK. Also, for anyone who might be like nostalgic for like an earlier time, this is a time when, first of all, there's no such thing as minimum wage no
Costume Design by Juliana Makovsky
01:00:10
Speaker
period. That should be mentioned. Secondly, the reason that Becky and Sarah get arrested is because Ramdas sends them like anonymously, sends them
01:00:21
Speaker
like this beautiful like bounty of like food and like fine but he doesn't just send it to them he had to they had to have like yeah they had to have crossed those two attics yes and like in the middle of the night yes somebody had to magically get in there without them waking up. But like like the headmist, right, like it's it literally makes no sense. Like he definitely like took a magic wand and went like, boop, but like the headmist receives all this stuff and immediately says, ah,
01:00:58
Speaker
I don't know where this came from and I don't pay you any money because there's no such thing as minimum wage or child labor laws. So therefore you must have stolen it. So I'm going to call the police and the police are going to come without question and arrest both of you and take you to like child jail. So for anyone who might be nostalgic for the past, like all of those things could happen. Let's not be.
01:01:25
Speaker
And yeah, like poor Becky is like this, this little girl, this beautiful little actress who is just the dog's body of this school where the other little girls aren't necessarily from what we see cruel to her, but they're taught that she is less than and not to speak to her. And they're also being raised in a society in which black and white are not treated remotely equally.
01:01:54
Speaker
right And so Becky doesn't have anybody. Like it's literally just, she's by herself. Like she's the one servant girl and then there's like a cook and the sister of the headmistress. And everybody else in that school is white. Even the rest of the staff are all white. Like she is by herself. She is isolated.
01:02:14
Speaker
And when Sarah and like Sarah starts reaching out by like trying to invite her to join and Becky's like, I can't do that. yeah Like I literally will be my life will be in danger if I do that. I'm not. and So Sarah is trying to like make friends, but like it's that little.
01:02:33
Speaker
It's that not understanding necessarily all of the inequities that exist, but like being a nice child, because that's what we're supposed to understand, Sarah, is is just a holistically nice person. And um this is like the the primer to like a privileged white girl's understanding of inequity, where it's like, she's just like, why can't you be friends? We could just do that. And Becky's like, be so for real right now. like There are people in this world that would rather see me die than be your friend. And she's like, oh my God, that's so mean. And then Sarah gets cast down to like the same social level and then like really viscerally starts to understand that divide. And so all of that is what's happening in the film, right? Stylistically,
01:03:21
Speaker
Yes. Filma. This is freaking movie. Is total magical realism. It is so stunningly beautiful. insane It's It's the opposite of the secret garden color wise because this is like secret garden. We're like working up to spring in the garden, right? And then we get That's our colors. That's our life has returned to misfit. But like in a little princess.
01:03:53
Speaker
Everything is colorful. It's very saturated. It's so saturated. All the girls' uniforms are these drop-waste emerald green dresses with giant bows in their hair. Everything in the school, including the color painted on the outside of the building, is green. It's emerald city. Everything. It's baby girl emerald city. Just one day in the emerald city just one day. There's a birthday.
01:04:21
Speaker
for Sarah, where they have balloons. And the balloons, I think, are green and black. And white. And black. Yeah. And that made me want to research the history of balloons, because I was like, did balloons always look like they look like content? Like, they look like modern balloons, but then I'm like, did they ever not look like that? Did they yeah were they ever made of? I wanted to know, but i did i did I look it up? No. that's for That's for fun for later. Yeah. So there's just like,
01:04:49
Speaker
all of this detail where it also, this movie also feels to me a little bit like Matilda, where like Matilda has that magic too. And so there's just like detail everywhere. Like there's, you know, is it soutache as I was called that kind of stuff? Yeah, the soutache. Like on the collars. They have these big pointed collars on the dresses that hang down that have this like, it's kind of like an abstract, like a leaf or like a botanical. Like soutache is like this,
01:05:17
Speaker
braided trim that's very like thin and fine and you like kind of loop it around and you like sew it down um and it's like all over. you really think of like the late 1800s and like the Civil War or mid to late 1800s with like Soutache. And so it is, there's just so much chef kiss details i know all over the place. They have like these little like forest green overcoats when they go to like church that have like the school crest, like very like ah like little British boarding school Harry Potter vibes like sewn on the jacket. Speaking of the designer,
01:05:56
Speaker
and the costume designer, Juliana Makovsky. judy like oh which ah ah Let's just go through some of her CV. So I'm not gonna go like too too far back, but I will start with big. So yeah third third credit as a designer. like wow ok So that's 1988. We jump over a lot and we've got like major theater, not straight to video stuff. And we go,
01:06:24
Speaker
to The Quick and the Dead, which was the same year as The Little Princess came out. ah We go to White Squall Lolita, The Devil's Advocate, Great Expectations. Practical Magic. Yes, Pleasantville. Pleasantville, The Hunger Games. Yeah, The Hunger Games, The Legend of Vagabonds, Harry Potter, and The Sorcerer's Stone. Hi. so X-Men The Last Stand we've got. And then like recently like every Marvel movie that's made over a billion dollars. Captain America and Winter Soldier. Infinity War, Endgame. Civil War. Guardians of the Galaxy. All the Guardians of the Galaxy movies. The Suicide Squad.
01:07:04
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, like, Juliana, call me, please. Hello. I would love to hang out and wash some socks, you know, if that's what your team needs, whatever it is. I'm happy to do it. yeah i'll I'll take notes, but like, very, very influential. And like, just to take a second, Harry Potter,
01:07:24
Speaker
do not buy any new stuff. Don't give any more money to the IP. Let JK Rowling suffer because she's an evil, evil human person. I understand it's in people's hearts, but it doesn't have to be coming out of your wallet. It doesn't have to be coming out to your wallet. Don't support that nonsense period. But like, yes, this was influential. And yes, the the costumes of those films were influential to a generation. And this designer,
01:07:49
Speaker
had something to do with that. And she definitely got the tone of what Harry Potter is. And she cut her teeth in a little princess because, you know, a school with school uniforms, boom, a little princess. She got that visual language down and then just took in the information from you know, Harry Potter and created that visual world over there. But it's like, it's that same kind of unification and that same kind of fantasy that's like happening in this movie. And it's just so beautiful. And because we're so seeing so much green and then like these dark woods and like, you know, rich,
Symbolism and Historical Context
01:08:27
Speaker
lush things inside of this house, when Sarah's dad dies,
01:08:33
Speaker
she's put into mourning and that's the one dress she's still allowed. So that becomes her work dress and Becky is also dressed in black. And then next door where we have Rama, sorry, Ramdas in the, you know, just like every once in a while just peeking over and seeing how this girl's life is progressing. Like in gold, like head to toe, like just beautiful clothing. Like a beautiful turban. Like he's just so rich with color.
01:09:01
Speaker
And that's why it's interesting to see like what whatever it is that his relationship is with this older man. Yeah. Like I wonder maybe like that like because the older man is also British, right? Yes, he's a like maybe he like maybe they knew each other in India. ah Yeah. like i know like And that kind of makes sense with the debt. Like it all I don't know. Yeah. And I didn't read the original like the the book of it. So I don't know what that story is. And I know that it is slightly different.
01:09:29
Speaker
but um But in my head, I would like to think that Ram Dass is a stranger in a strange land um who is, I mean, he's very obviously very educated and he's very dignified, like he just has so much. And I would like to think that it's not a story of subjugation for him.
01:09:49
Speaker
in this house. It just doesn't make sense to me that it would be just based on what we see of him. He's bringing food to Captain Crew. He is. He's doing these things, but it's like he's caring for the older man, but I don't know what that shape takes. But it's like, is he doing that as someone who has an existing relationship with this man and cares what happens to him and recognizes that his son just died horrifically in the war? It's sort of like,
01:10:19
Speaker
So it's just- Is this like a friend caring for a friend? Like, I don't know. I would prefer to think of it that way. And i of course, of course we would prefer to think of it that way. And like, I just, I just was like blown away by how observant he is. Cause he is this character who's just like, yeah, I'm putting two and two together and this is pretty nonsense next door. Like, so he's like, I don't like it. And so when he like,
01:10:42
Speaker
performs whatever magic he performs to to bring this gift into Sarah and Becky's room, um where they're supposed to spend the next day, they're being punished toward the end of the movie, and they're supposed to spend the next day without any food, and Sarah's supposed to work alone, taking her jobs and Becky's jobs, and Becky's supposed to be locked in her room all day.
01:11:01
Speaker
yeah And they're both like probably not being fed very much anyway. So Becky's like, I'm scared. And it's like, if this is how far we're going, then like what's the next day going to be? And Ram Dass is literally just like across the alley, just like, hmm, hmm. He's just listening to this conversation. The camera's not showing us this. And Sarah, like he's just standing in his window. So Sarah is like, Well, don't worry about it. We'll just eat from like this massive feast that's in our room tonight. And then we'll we'll be full and we won't have to worry about food tomorrow. And she just helps- It was very like lost boys in hooks vibes in like one of my most hated scenes in Hook. but One of my most beloved. And so it's like, Sarah has gone through this roller coaster, right? Of having of being at the top and then having lost all hope. And when she had lost all hope, Becky was like, but the magic.
01:11:52
Speaker
like the magic that you were telling us when she was telling the stories of the Ramayana and of India. When Becky says like that's what was getting me through. Yeah, that's what was keeping me alive. And Sarah goes, there is no magic. And Becky's like, well, shit then, I guess. And so this is them both giving each other the magic. And in the conversation, I think Sarah's like, we will be sisters like from here on out. like We're going to look out for each other. and so She's trying to like help Becky, and Becky's trying to help her by like saying yes and. you know So they're just like talking about what foods they want. And Becky's like muffins, every muffin under the sun. But they got to be hot. that They're like sausages. And so the next morning, they wake up, and they have a platter of sausages and like fresh juices and all these things and like robes made out of velvet.
01:12:42
Speaker
And they're all golden and orange and there's sunflowers all over the room. And it's just this beautiful, joyful effect. Like literal visual explosion. And it's like Ram Dass just walks around and goes, whoosh, where there's just gold that comes out of it. It's crazy. And I kind of like to imagine that the monkey is the one who went across Ram Dass. Oh, 100%. Just hang it high.
01:13:05
Speaker
100%. Do we think that is the same monkey actor from Indiana Jones, Raiders of the Lost Ark? I think it could be. It could be, but I also don't want to theorize. I don't think they lived that long. Yeah, I don't know about that. Because also the treatment of animals in film is really scary, so I don't know. That's okay. You know what? It's fine. I did not remember that this movie involved World War I at all. I did not remember that.
01:13:31
Speaker
And I just want to say to all the dads listening out there that I think World War I is more interesting than World War II in terms of how it changed the world. So I'm just throwing that out there. Just a purely conversational standpoint. Gauntlet thrown. Just going to throw that lob that into the distance and see what happens. But something that I thought was really interesting.
01:13:54
Speaker
um I've been ah reading, which I use with like light quotation marks, this book because it's a coffee table book. um But the captions are amazing. um No, but I've been reading this book um about like particular like clothing history of of working class women, which is amazing. It's so good. um It's called ah Real Clothes, Real Lives. and ah Something that was really interesting, i was looking through like the section on morning clothes and again morning M-O-U-R-N ah when people died. It was so fascinating because they were taught the woman who wrote the book was talking about how
01:14:39
Speaker
the sort of rigidity of what you're supposed to wear when someone dies, start to like fade in the 20th century. um Because it was like this very Victorian thing that like you wear black for like a year. Yeah. A year at a day. like um Yeah, for like a significant person in your family. And like you know after this many months, you can also incorporate gray. And after like this many months, you just have to wear a black hat or like whatever.
01:15:08
Speaker
yeah And it was very formal. Obviously, it only applies to people that can afford to follow it, as we said earlier. But it was so fascinating because she talked about how that rigidity and that length of time that you're supposed to wear black, like faded,
01:15:24
Speaker
after World War I. So like right after this movie and ah the reason that people stopped following these practices so stringently is because too many people died. Too many people died. follow It was too much death. It would have killed an industry. It would have killed the clothing industry because like all these people who have all these textiles, who are making all of these textiles, who are super, you know, patterned or dyed or all of these things like dye houses, weavers, all of these things.
01:15:58
Speaker
They're like, we can't, all that black my people need to buy stuff or buy fabrics. Like people need to, to buy these things so that we can, you know, keep making money and feeding people, et cetera. So yeah, it's just like too many, like an astronomical and unbelievable amount of people died for what had happened before in war. And so like, that's why it was a world war was because it just swept so much Yeah, attitudes towards a lot of things were just yeah done after that and shifted super, super fast. So much is fascinating like of both wars and like how they affect so much. immediate like I think the immediate psychological effects of how it like rippled through society in like so many ways makes World War I more interesting, personally.
01:16:53
Speaker
um and But it's also interesting like in this movie because um this is like still the time, especially in like the British army, which is what the dad is in, where you become a high-ranking person in the military by buying your way in. Yeah, like he's a, he's a captain, right? Like he's, I think so. Yeah. I keep calling him captain. I know I believe, I think he's a captain, but like he's an officer of some, yeah some level. And the only way that you do that in this time is by buying the position in the army. So it's, it's crazy to me that like,
01:17:34
Speaker
there's any time where like military strategy would be put in the hands of people who just bought their way in as opposed to actually having like proven themselves to be like a tactical mind or a strong leader or like whatever, but it's just like, yeah,
01:17:53
Speaker
It's just crazy to me. it has not It doesn't really have anything to do with the movie, but it's just
Resolution and Impact on Childhood
01:17:58
Speaker
crazy. It's crazy to me that we used to, well, not we, but that countries used to operate that way and then they wonder why things don't go well.
01:18:07
Speaker
The father is British. Sarah is also British, but has a full on US accent. And I think that that's down to the actress. I think so. like By the way, American maybe is her mom. maybe But at least she was she went to like an American boarding school at least. So right I mean, we can we can say that the mother was American. Why not? We'll go with that. This this is Downton Abbey with the American mom and the British dad. And it's like it's taking place in New York. And so there's this like mishmashing of things a little bit where it's like really American, but also some British-ness.
01:18:48
Speaker
Yeah, there's a there's a British ality. But this is like an interesting period of time, yes, for costumes because of and clothing because of how clothing changed. Yeah, things were in the process of of changing. um But it is such an interesting and like strong visual to be like at this school, everything is green. Everything is green. And even isn when she's like on the movie poster i think that she so i get her white or the movie poster that i have is a different one with like it's all black and then around her neck it's green so i don't know if she's actually in mourning dress with like a green mock neck or like
01:19:30
Speaker
Or if it's like when she's like a ah shaded version when she's like in her green dress. I'm not sure when, but like there's a little bit of green even on the movie poster. And so it's just like the the design is just so strong. It also reminds me of the show Pushing Daisies, which has like such a beautiful yeah visual like visual sumptuousness, if you will. like horse just There's so much to look at and so much saturated color that the world is like very bright. But the story, the second that you scratch at the brightness, it's dark as hell. like But I just want to say that I chose to watch this one second because she's reunited.
01:20:10
Speaker
The same way at the end of the Sacred Garden, they are reunited, they are a family again. In this one, ah you can assume that Sarah has convinced her father to like... if not adopt become like, um like a, like a, not a mentor, but like take responsibility for Becky because she promised Becky that they would look out for each other. And Becky walks out of that school at the end in this like beautiful little dress and like Sarah's all back into her finery. And so it's like Sarah was like, and now you get to pick whichever of my dresses you want and that's yours and you can have even more after that.
01:20:48
Speaker
And it's like, I just was like, yeah, Becky, you don't have to work like this anymore. And I looked at the Wikipedia to see how the book is different. In the book, Becky becomes Sarah's personal servant. And I was like, well, that better not be how this fucking plays out in this movie. Because in my case, Becky gets to be fucking free with a capital F-R-E-E. And she doesn't have any shit for anybody else ever in her life. In my version, like,
01:21:14
Speaker
Becky and Sarah literally become like sisters yes like and like go to school together and have fun together and like yeah run around together, do whatever. I don't even know who buys the school at the end of this if like the dad puts money into the school or if the sister comes back because the sister runs away with the milk man which is pretty great. I mean like good get good for her she got it get it.
01:21:37
Speaker
but like I hope that the sister of the wealthy and like take over the school and like are better at it. Nice. Yeah. But like I just would love the idea. Like I, I, I know that it is white saviorism to like save Becky, but I would just like for Becky in this cinematic version to just have a good life and have access to this money so that she can help folks if she wants to invest.
01:22:07
Speaker
in whatever the hell she wants and just mind her own damn business if she wants to like be happy because man, this little girl just like went through shit. And then she's been through it more than yeah. And then like made a friend, you know, and but it's so there's, there's stuff here that is like very much from a specific point of view, you know, it's very much magical realism. It's very much a fantasy. But again, this came out in 1995 and we were not yet 10 and it was like so eight yeah eight. And it was just like so beautiful and it hit what what hits is the the beauty of it. yeah the The soundtrack, the music is great, but also just the themes of of
01:23:00
Speaker
being kind. Being afraid of losing somebody that you love the most and then like having to figure out life like that. I think that kids movies now are like missing the like deep like dread and terror and bleakness that these movies have like there's this like that we've we've lost that but kids feel those feelings kids feel feelings kids know what death is like yes you do have to explain it but like kids are human beings like who carry the same genetic memory that all the rest of us do
01:23:38
Speaker
And so we we were the product of a very bittersweet generation. So much of what we were exposed to had a significant bittersweetness, which is why I watched The Secret Garden first, because yes, it is a sweet ending, but it is bittersweet because you know what's coming. yeah And like,
01:23:56
Speaker
you just you're like so yeah it's like it's it's a nice ending in that movie but like their parents like other than you know than mr craven their parents are still dead like their parents are still dead have to like deal with i mean like i don't know how fast you bounce back from the like no deep young age emotional trauma of being neglected as much as all of them have. And also him, like the dad in that is not going to be emotionally, mentally healthy in two seconds. No. Like he's going to have something to work toward, but there's still a lot ahead of them. And in this one, it's because the movie is so bright that they're literally like driving off into the sunset, you know? Like really, really. Everything is beautiful and nobody dies anymore. And you're like, okay. You know, Rom Dust and The Monkey are like, good luck, you guys. And you're like, oh, good. And then the actress is singing the credit song, which is like just kind of repeating in different ways the phrase, like, your heart kindles in my heart. And I'm just like.
Actress Background and Personal Reflections
01:25:12
Speaker
and Beyond that the the the little girl who played well, she's older than us but like the actress who plays Sarah It's like an heir to the Hyatt family Which I'm like, I don't you know, maybe that informed her performance i don't know i I like I wonder you know and I was like reading up on that a little bit and I was just like cuz she she had to like fight and for her inheritance, but like there were 11. She got like hundreds of millions of dollars. there And there were 11 people who the trust broke down to and each one of them walked away with hundreds of millions of dollars. And so it's like, I hope raise that
01:25:55
Speaker
in this capitalist world that Ms. Ma'am looks at this film. And, you know, I wonder if it to heart to wonder if the story yeah affected any of her life, because it would be nice if it did. But like, I don't know, the the costumes in in both of these films, I think on a very personal level, really stuck with me because I have always loved layers. I've always loved wearing layers.
01:26:24
Speaker
And like with modern clothes, we have, we do wear layers for sure, but like, it's just different where it's like a sweatshirt over a t-shirt, you know, or a sweater over a shirt. Yeah. Well, and we have like our, our like physical environment is, is different because we have everything is different. Our social arrays are different, like all of these things, but it's just like, there was just something about,
01:26:47
Speaker
And it's it's true of any historical film that takes place in the east, the west, the north, like the south, like anywhere on this earth, anytime I see anything that takes place pre a certain period of time, there's just like a love of the longevity of those clothes and how, you know, like how many hands cared for them, made them.
01:27:14
Speaker
You know and it's like it's still the same today so many hands make our clothes, but like We get it. We have the luxury of not thinking about it. Yeah, and so like I just I loved learning about that I think when I was a kid by right at it and just being like whoa there was so much that went into that and Also, like yeah, I want to wear like a cool wool coat.
01:27:36
Speaker
I think I've always been on the like let's get all the bright saturated colors family like I've that has always been my um personal style. I don't Yeah, I think from the from the jump. um So yeah, I think like The costumes in A Little Princess speak more to like what I was yeah interested in visually at that time. If you told me that I had to wear a school uniform, I would have been really bummed. If you told me that my school uniform was like acid green with a giant bow in my hair, I would have been on board. Acid green. I would have been like, great, sign me up. you know like That part is appealing to me. Yeah. But like these two films just, yeah, like
01:28:24
Speaker
I think they, they taught me like my, my magical expectations of like, what does it feel like to be magical? And like, yeah, I already knew about bittersweetness cause land before time, Jesus Christ. Um, but like these were just like major in the early nineties of like yeah being a little, little girl, a little nerdy girl, a little nerdy girl who was like femme. and like wanted to be a little princess and like was interested in tea parties and horses and animals and flowers. Yeah. I like the idea of flowers. I don't like the idea of sticking my hand in the dirt. ah Never have, probably never will. ah Just the i the the possibility of coming up with those worms. Like I'm not like dicking. I'm not eating that worm. I'm not doing it. yeah Yeah. I don't really want to pick it up. Not really the vibe.
01:29:16
Speaker
Yeah, no, no. But I will hop on that horse and I will ride, ride over those hills. No problem. I don't think that I will hop on the horse. That's fine. I don't know about that. More horse for me. You know what? And it really is. And I'm so happy for you.
Preview of Next Episode: Pleasantville
01:29:31
Speaker
but Into the sunset pony.
01:29:34
Speaker
Oh, thank you so much for joining us this week for this amazing double feature of these two stories, ah Secret Garden and Little Princess. We are going to continue next week. We'll be moving a little further up the 20th century and I think kind of sticking with a bit of the magical realism vibes in an interesting way. So we're going to be watching the movie Pleasantville. I am really excited to watch that movie. I love this movie. Yeah, I don't know i don't know what to like. This movie is weird. This movie is important. Yeah, and it was a big deal when it came out. Like I remember because I was in middle, we were in middle school.
01:30:18
Speaker
We're the same age. We were in middle school and I remember being in middle school and people talking about it. Like it was like the Truman Show where it was a convention of storytelling that we had not experienced yet and blew our mind. And this is also, we just talked about it in this episode because it's the same costume designer as little princess. Yeah, it is. So no thank you. Once again, thank you, Juliana. Like literally this woman can do everything. Yes. Yeah. Looking forward to talking about it because I honestly, I don't think I've seen Pleasantville since it came out.
01:30:55
Speaker
Oh, wow. I've seen this movie many times. So I'm i'm looking forward to seeing it with like a ah different different brain, a different eye. yeah um but yeah and this i feel i I think I was considering picking this movie when we did our episode about fascism, and I ultimately didn't. But I do think that it, of unfortunately, is still very relevant. It's super relevant to a lot of things. And you know what? Like, we're going to be covering a lot of things that are relevant to that because, yeah you know, it's the evergreen. And it's an art form that does try to confront
01:31:36
Speaker
discussing some of these things. So yeah, yeah, it'll be on point i'm feeling to talk about it again.
Host Acknowledgement of Audio Issues
01:31:44
Speaker
Um, my apologies to anybody with misophonia in this episode. I've made a lot of mouth sounds. I'll try to, I'll see what I can do. Thank you.
01:31:54
Speaker
I'm not able to skirt our way around a couple of them. I think I integrated them into, specifically into what I was formalizing, so best of luck. Thank you for joining us for this episode, and we will see you next time. Stay safe out there. Happy New Year. Bye bye.