Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
"Crystal Badger" ACN Pod 112
75 Plays1 year ago
Edie, Tom & Jon talk about the great run #ncfc are on and look ahead to a couple of testing fixtures on the horizon, with Sunderland looking to regain form and Huddersfield scrapping for their lives.
Recommended
Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome to the Long Come Norwich Podcast, a sensationally saccharine saunter alongside the success of Norwich's Ascent to 6th. It's episode 112 with Edie, Punt and me.
Leadership in Football: Experience vs. Ineffectiveness
00:00:35
Speaker
Edie, that's right you're smart under Wagner in turn.
00:00:39
Speaker
That's all right. It's nice to see, and this is very weird to say, it's nice to see a grown up as opposed to sort of little dumpling sort of man baby who just sort of doesn't really do anything quantifiably of value and then gets really upset about it if someone says, excuse me, you appear not to have done anything of quantifiable value.
00:01:07
Speaker
So, I mean, that does
New Football Approach: Simplicity and Enjoyment
00:01:09
Speaker
fit in. Rather, I think we've got quite used to this sort of white man moaning club that's been kind of established as a culture. So it's really lovely to see a nice chap turn up and just sort of wave at people and seem genuinely interested in the business of football. That's a really interesting point.
00:01:33
Speaker
This the the unbelievably tiny amount of effort that is required Wave at people like just give everyone a bit of a wave I wonder how much more rope soft little dumpling would have had if He'd have just given us a bit of a wave on the couple of wins that we got on the jury I mean like during that period of time when we were near the top of the league like unbeaten in nine and
00:01:56
Speaker
If you'd have done a bit of waving, if you'd have done a bit of this is me and this is what I like and this is me as a personality and this is what I'm trying to achieve and just trying to be a bit more soft and cuddly and give us a bit of a wave.
Importance of Effective Coaching and Planning
00:02:08
Speaker
It just shows how small what we were lacking is, but also how vital it was.
00:02:14
Speaker
And I don't know, it's just like there's a relationship between all of us. There's some synergy, acknowledge that. And then everyone feels like they are part of the synergy. Very simple. Do you feel part of the synergy, John? I do. And I'm not going to go as far as soft little dumpling, but let's not pretend that this was let's not pretend that football was fun under the predecessor.
00:02:44
Speaker
even when we were top of the league in September, even when we were top two for a fairly elongated period of the start of the season. And football feels fun again and I think that's the reason that we keep coming back to football because actually it should be a pastime that we go and enjoy and we pay you know 550 quid a year to
00:03:02
Speaker
you know to have our season tickets you know all right we do sometimes do that out of duty but typically we do that because actually it's a nice thing to do and it is our hobby and our pastime and something that we want to enjoy and it feels like we are enjoying it again but it also feels like
00:03:20
Speaker
there's a plan and the players are coached and the team is now slightly more than the sum of its parts and it was definitely the reverse of that previously. So, yeah, I mean, there's nothing to be annoyed
Wagner's Impact on Norwich: Re-engaging Fans
00:03:37
Speaker
about. There's nothing to be dismayed about. This is the form team in the division. If we look at the last five games, we have the best form of anyone. I think it's joint best form of anyone.
00:03:46
Speaker
We've accumulated, we're tracking at more than two points per game under Wagner, which is, you know, his championship form. And also what you said wouldn't happen, and I said good. And I didn't think it would happen. And look, let's be honest, it might not continue to happen because we have sterner challenges to come. But what we have done really quickly is
00:04:08
Speaker
actually got our home form back. And that was really massively vitally important because without that, you don't, you know, ultimately, if you win away, you get 2,000 fans, 1,500 fans on board and you can do your little waves to that many people. If you do it at home, you can go and wave in front of the park, but you can go and wave, you know, to the director's box, you can go and wave to the south stand, you know, river and you can engage with all of those supporters and as Edie has quite eloquently put it, feel part of the synergy.
00:04:37
Speaker
And everyone, I think, feels like that now. Everyone feels like, look, Wagner might not be the greatest head coach that we're ever going to have, but he's just done loads of really, really simple things, which we were screaming out for. It felt like it was common sense. It felt like it was common sense that you would just do better comms around your head coach and that you would humanize him and you would make sure that we knew what the journey looked like.
Lessons from Past Challenges: Communication Strategies
00:05:06
Speaker
We got that really early with Wagner and I do sometimes I feel bad for Smith in a way that he was maybe never afforded that kind of air support and that he was out on his own. He was almost put out on a limb and in the end probably started to bite back at the criticism that was coming his way.
00:05:26
Speaker
But at least we've learned the lessons and at least when there's been, you know, kind of the new coaches come in straight away, the club has been on board with making sure that they're communicating exactly what we're
Wagner's Influence: Team Unity and Fan Engagement
00:05:36
Speaker
doing. They're celebrating the success, but also Wagner is making sure that it's not just him that's saying thank you to the fans. It's the whole squad that he's physically, we said this before on the last part, but he's physically pushing players to be closer to supporters and
00:05:51
Speaker
something like that just it just works it just makes everyone it just gives everyone the feels yeah that's what we needed yeah and i just going back to what you were saying around when things were better is looking back at the names when you said something about joy and i remembered there being a couple of names of our pods so so going back back when we were actually really in contention thief of joy i just don't know what he does you know these sort of names of our podcasts when when we we really weren't
00:06:20
Speaker
buying into Smith like that's two and four months ago that you know typically like come up with by Edie let's be honest as well you know usually dancing between the raindrops was one of Edie's and that like that was in between the two but I mean we've already got soft little dumpling or white man moaning club by the way if white man moaning club is not on a t-shirt by the end of the week then what like an anti-social social club t-shirt yeah yeah white man moaning club is brilliant to be fair I am part of that club as well I know right you don't love
Achieving Game Objectives Against Tough Teams
00:06:45
Speaker
moan
00:06:45
Speaker
However, yeah, we've kind of done exactly what we said on the last pod we needed to do. We had a run of games coming up against teams that you felt if we had any truck at all, considering ourselves to be a top eight team, let alone a playoff or promotion chasing team, we need to make sure we're doing two wins in a draw. And to be fair, we've done exactly that. We then said we're doing a slightly harder run.
00:07:10
Speaker
At the time, Sunderland were on a good run. They have basically, in the last three or four games, where we've been sorting things out, gone into a bit of a freefall. So Millwall Sunderland, at the time, I think were either both playoffs or certainly one playoffs and one seventh, and now Sunderland and, you know, three or four places beneath us.
00:07:27
Speaker
And I was looking, like I always do, ahead of run-ins and trying to think about where we are from a narrative point of view. And yeah, so we've done an away win, coming back from behind, weathered the storm of a late press after conceding that relatively late goal, at a playoff chasing team that have been in and around it for a while.
Upcoming Matches and Strategic Insights
00:07:50
Speaker
And then going ahead, we've now got Sunderland who are desperately looking for form, Huddersfield bottom of the table, Stoke who are sort of middling, they win one, they lose one, they win one, they lose one and have done for the last few games. So you feel that if we can at home with a really positive bouncing Carrow Road on Sunday against Sunderland, then obviously go into those couple of games against Huddersfield Stoke.
00:08:13
Speaker
We can earn ourselves only needing a point against Sheffield United and Blackburn Rovers to still kind of be staying relevant. We've got that really interesting triumvirate of games. Sheffield United, Blackburn Rovers in Middlesbrough, 3-4 at the start of April. So we play Sheffield United, Blackburn and Middlesbrough basically what's our second, third and fourth between the 1st and the 15th of April.
00:08:36
Speaker
And then the last four games are all very, very winnable. So I was looking at how it shakes up. If we can get six points of the next three, again, Sunderland, Huddersford, Stoke, you'd think that should be doable, then we can have a medium April and we're still likely to be there. So I did think when we made the change and I stuck my neck out there and said I thought it would happen, that we would finish top six. So now, Edie, I want to ask you,
00:09:06
Speaker
Do you want to finish top six? If you could choose, would you choose to just miss out on the playoffs? But come seventh, so still win more than we lose between now and the end of the season? Or would you prefer to guarantee that or?
00:09:26
Speaker
No, no, no, no. It's 15 man size badges. It always has to be like a different quantity for those to work. No. Or would you like, the man size badge would be absolutely frightening, wouldn't it? Would you like to... Is it that far off? I mean, there's only like double the size of a normal badge, surely. The biggest badge was only a third of a man. Do you reckon? How big is your man though? Is it a Wessie or is it like a, you know, Ewan Robertson is playing? How big is a man? You and Roberts these days when he actually is the right sort of weight. Okay.
00:09:56
Speaker
We're going slightly sidetracked, which does happen sometimes, I appreciate. So the first choice was guaranteed seventh place, lovely end to the season, win more than we lose, the good feeling carries on, and then we haven't quite got enough because Millwall, Luton, let's say Sunderland, just do more than us over the course of the next sort of 10 games. Or I guarantee you, playoff final, but I cannot guarantee you winning it. Actually, I go for like a minute,
00:10:26
Speaker
kind of sub option, which is playoff final, but not winning it because like, I want scrap and spirit, but I just, I think we need to go on ultimate crushing disappointment. No, no, we need to, we need to like, basically be given a reason to be strategic and to go on our walkabouts and to, um, just like do that thing where you just have to rebuild your foundations and come back strong. Cause otherwise it will be.
00:10:54
Speaker
Like they'll just have to put down a big waterproof tarpaulin on the pitch next season if we got promoted, just for all the humiliation that will occur on it.
Strategic Rebuilding: Is Disappointment Necessary?
00:11:04
Speaker
It's just like going to be a bit of a cycle. We're not there yet. There's amazing green shoots, but like to actually properly build on a long term kind of trajectory.
00:11:17
Speaker
there is that. But I mean, also, I totally recognise that money is an option and investment is important. And that's obviously like cooking in a way that none of us know about right now. But like, is it maybe we have to go through the cycle a bit to kind of get the old engine started as opposed to go on the walkabout? I don't know enough about the business to know which option is correct. But that makes me sad because it should be all about the narrative.
00:11:44
Speaker
as opposed to the backroom positions and the spreadsheets, but it is spreadsheet season, isn't it?
Financial Importance of Promotion
00:11:51
Speaker
Well, when we have this, and we'll come to this in a way when we're doing the listening questions, but the badger in the room is the investment. Are they going to bankroll us if we were to go up?
00:12:11
Speaker
Is that the plan or is the plan to effectively say, well, we'll take another relegation because we'll basically finish in inverted commas the investment job at Colney and finish off getting the facilities done and then try and rebuild again for one where we then have the conferences? Or is it a case of next time you get up, we are going to try and help you buy
00:12:33
Speaker
three 20 plus million players rather than several eight to 11 million pound players who are much less likely to work out or whatever the strategy might be. And I get that that part of it isn't a public part of the narrative and it probably is sensible that they're not sharing that. But that's where I find it difficult in these kind of hypotheticals to know whether or not you would want that. Now, I personally think the way that this season has gone, I wouldn't want to play Middlesbrough
00:13:03
Speaker
at all Blackburn, at Wembley for a chance because he's likely to be one of those two, right? If Sheffield United drop out of second and borough overtake them, I don't rate
00:13:19
Speaker
United's chances in the playoffs, I think it would be a Blackburn that would probably go through. And in Blackburn have pulled our trousers down twice and we look we've looked awful against Blackburn. Yeah, but they haven't really pulled up any trees. I don't I don't think either Blackburn performance against us was convincing to a point where I was like, they're a really good side. You know, they'll kind of kick on. I think we were just so bad at that point. Yeah, that's more the point. And actually, I'd really fancy us against Blackburn in the playoffs, really fancy us against Blackburn in the playoffs. I don't think we'd have any issues with him.
00:13:49
Speaker
Middlesbrough absolutely concur. They look like a really coherent side that know exactly what they're trying to do under Carrick and have signed players for that particular philosophy including one Aaron Ramsey who I think to get to at the weekend.
00:14:06
Speaker
I think I looked at the run-ins of Luton, Millwall, ourselves, doing some medium conservative, not expecting knowledge between everything, but just going on the types of teams we have beaten this season, which is effectively most people below eighth, we tend to beat, and then we struggle with anyone above that.
00:14:28
Speaker
and then looking at who Luton have got and looking at who Mihael have got I think we're probably going to finish fifth which means we're probably going to play Blackburn because I don't think they're going to go past Borough and I don't think United are going to drop down far enough so it's basically Bernie plus Sheffield United or Bernie plus Middlesbrough
00:14:45
Speaker
and then obviously fourth place fifth so that's probably going to be Blackburn versus either ourselves or Luton and I personally haven't seen enough from Luton to worry about them in the playoffs and I would rather play Luton than Blackburn but then again you're completely right John I've seen us lose to Blackburn
00:15:06
Speaker
a couple of times, but they have been some of the most toothless and pathetic performances of the dumpling bollard football that we had. And second time, they sent only half a team down, didn't they? And that was still enough.
00:15:21
Speaker
They just sort of had a couple of the board players up front and they did the damage and that was the end of that. But what about you, Pump? Would you settle for seventh? Or would you want playoff heartbreak like Heedy bizarrely does? I mean, it feeds into a question that we've had in from Jack Goddard. I'll just get it up here. Hang on. So he kind of says...
00:15:44
Speaker
I can open my phone. Would promotion actually be good for us in the long run? We have tons of young players like Sarah Nunez, Amabamadeli, Gunn, Sarge, Adamida, Max, who could probably really develop and prosper with another year in the championship, but who aren't quite ready for the Premier League yet. And I get it, but if we don't go up, and unless there is a load of Atanasio cash that we don't know about,
00:16:09
Speaker
We can have to sell some of those lads and it's a financial necessity that we will have to sell some of those lads and the way I think the club is pitching at the moment is the investment is more around infrastructure and legacy and making sure that the club is fit for purpose.
00:16:29
Speaker
way down the line rather than right here's 50 million for players like go and get yourself promoted again lads i just don't think that's what's happening i think that there's a there's a clear plan for stadium development there's a clear plan look we've just done six million on a swimming pool at colney you know kind of so that there is absolutely um a lot of money going into
00:16:50
Speaker
what should see us hopefully be you know successful in terms of training facilities and youth academy
Player Performance and Development
00:16:56
Speaker
moving forward. I think they want to keep doing those things because they see that as the long-term future of the football club. How do you spend six million on a swimming pool? Well it's holding the ground with some water in it. Yeah I mean I think swimming pools are expensive full stop but yeah it's a million pounds
00:17:12
Speaker
Right, it's... I mean, I appreciate it's not a hole in the ground with mooring, that's a pond. Yeah. But my point is, six million does seem slightly. I mean, like, I don't think... There's a whole building and like kind of cryotherapy or whatever, you know, it's all that kind of stuff. But essentially, the big bit of it is a big old swimming pool. So...
00:17:33
Speaker
Is that the name of the official? Yeah, exactly. The Lotus big old swimming pool. That's what it's going to be forever being known as. But what I guess the point that I'm trying to make is that there is definitely a financial necessity around Norwich City getting promoted, if not this season, then definitely next season, because otherwise we are going to be between several rocks and a really, really fucking hard place.
00:17:58
Speaker
and the club have been really upfront about that. There is no cash and Covid will have probably been a mitigating factor as to why it is so bad, but equally,
00:18:11
Speaker
some of our wretched recruitment in the past, you know, kind of three or four transfer windows also equally plays into that. And it's pleasing this time around that actually we've spent big on a player, Gabi Sarah, and we've spent several million pounds on someone like Marcelino Nunez, and it looks like
00:18:30
Speaker
hopefully they're going to work out and they are going to be, let's be honest, they're going to be sellable for more than we bought them for because that's part of the club's model and that's what we need to do. But in the meantime they need to really add value to the football club and Sarah especially is starting to do that in kind of in such a beautiful way. I mean he's
00:18:53
Speaker
He's now got the energy of like your typical kind of, I mean, Wagner described it, didn't he? He's playing like an English midfielder, I think he said he is. But with that added Brazilian flair as well. And he's all against Mille. Oh, my goodness, me. It's ridiculous. I mean, how you're able to do that. The awareness.
00:19:11
Speaker
to be able to go, oh, do you know what? I'll spin on this and just have a pop. And then for it to hit the underside of the bar as well just made it look even more useful. I tell you what's really interesting. What's interesting is the opposition managers have started talking about us in purring terms again. So if you remember towards the start of the season, if when we picked up a result, it would be, yeah, well, they've just bought on three players who have played 20 times in the Premier League or whatever.
00:19:37
Speaker
And we were like, yeah, we probably don't want them to play for us, but OK, sort of thing. Whereas now they've gone back to saying, no, there was some real Premier League quality that undid us. And you get the impression that maybe the shine went off Norwich once enough people had seen enough kind of tape on us to realize that it was that Premier League quality in inverted commas that was just about doing enough to cover the complete lack of tactical nous.
Scoring from Set-Pieces: Teamwork and Strategy
00:20:06
Speaker
Speaking of tactical analysis, one thing I want to call out was the first game without our set piece, Messiah, scoring from two set pieces and that not being like a constructed narrative or any bitterness or our part or what have you, in that the players ran over to Andy Hughes, didn't they? Tapping him on the head. And so that shows that it was maybe a
00:20:31
Speaker
You wonder, and I'll bring you in on this, Edie, you wonder if that was a thing, maybe they... When that tends to happen... It was a good little Wagner comment as well, wasn't there? Like, I'm not talking about... He was asked about it, and he said, I'm not discussing that just yet. So, I mean, who knows, on that front. I just think as well, it's fascinating how hiring a new crop of players with seemingly far more limited English has rendered them invulnerable, perhaps, to some of the more...
Evolving Style of Play: Instinct vs. Strategy
00:21:00
Speaker
confusing witterings around the club. It's like they've just got this beautiful force field of not understanding what the hell all of that woo-woo is about and are just getting on with the business of football. But this could well be a similar thing if they've actually
00:21:19
Speaker
sort of found new sources for inspiration. Yeah, I think that we've got a bit of a style. I still don't think there's necessarily a total blueprint, if she was to mean. And I almost think that that is... A purpose, though. That's the first step, isn't it? Purpose.
00:21:39
Speaker
I would say that we play in a kind of driven way and I think that there have been no shows under Wagner. There have been whole first halves in which we have not turned up and we're not talking first couple of games. A couple of our recent successes, our victories, we have disappeared for 20 minutes and it tends to have been at the start of the game.
00:22:01
Speaker
And I think the intensity and the driven nature with which we make decisions decisively as players, that is maybe the Wagner blueprint. And it is the fact that now when that's not happening, that's why the bad bits look as bad under Wagner as we looked bad under Smith at times.
Tactical Improvements Against High-Pressing Teams
00:22:23
Speaker
We have drifted in games for 20, 25 minutes without threatening.
00:22:27
Speaker
I wonder, John, do you think that is a personnel thing that, given another transfer window, he will be able to address? Or is it the fact that he just hasn't had the pre-season to get them up to the insane levels of fitness and work needed to do that level of intensity for 90 minutes? Because his old Huddersfield team used to basically be like Terriers, although that's the wrong Yorkshire club. I don't know, it's the right one. It's the right Yorkshire club.
00:22:56
Speaker
What Huddersfield, they're the Terriers, I thought. Second, I thought I got it mixed up with Barnsley. But yeah, the point is they really did. They were rapping and going, going and going for 90, 90 minutes. And maybe it's just too late in the season for him to introduce that. Yeah, look, I think you're right. It needs insane levels of fitness to completely deploy what he's asking the players to do in the most effective manner. But
00:23:19
Speaker
I think there is also a bit around the shape that he's been playing prior to Saturday, actually, because Millwall was a little bit more conservative.
00:23:28
Speaker
than previous games. But there is a way to play through us. There is a way to perhaps press us in such a manner that means that, I don't know, we find it difficult to get out or it can all be a bit stodgy. And I think that's still a challenge that Norwich need to overcome, is that when there is some really effective high pressing teams, how does a Wagner side deal with that?
00:23:54
Speaker
And right now, the answer is quite badly. However, if they don't press as high, if they're not really organized, if they're not really effective, and if they allow the likes of Kenny to drop deep and get the ball, if they allow Sarah to get on the ball and do what he does,
00:24:12
Speaker
then we can be incredibly, incredibly effective because we move the ball, and this is the main difference for me from under Smith, we're moving the ball much quicker and we're moving it forward through the thirds really, really quickly. We just want it down that end of the pitch where Sarah can do his thing, Pookie can do his thing, Hernandez can do his thing, Darwin is fit.
00:24:34
Speaker
was able to produce moments of magic and the fullbacks can join in as well. It's almost like let's play 2-3-5 like they did in the 1950s and just go all at it and I think that will have varying degrees of success in this division
Potential Success with Wagner's System
00:24:51
Speaker
but it will be enough to get us in and around the top six. And it might have been enough for top two had Wagner taken over in September, maybe. And that's extremely heartening. I don't think there's anything to be negative about in that respect. But what I do fear is that I don't think it's a personnel issue per se. I think it's a Wagner system issue and it is
00:25:17
Speaker
once you find out how to work it out, he was found out at Schalke, he was found out at Young Boys, he was found out at Huddersfield. So when people have a proper look at what the actual Norwich is going to look like, in say a couple of months when it should really be a side in his own image, we need to not necessarily have a plan B, but we need to be really good at what we're doing. And
00:25:44
Speaker
I'm positive that he can get that out of us. Because I mean, look, look at someone like on L. He's just a Wagner player, isn't he? Like, this is ridiculous. You know, that's what he wants. He wants high levels of energy. He wants people going forward. He wants you to get it in the box. Yeah. And and we've got players to suit that now. So yeah, no, I don't think it's personnel. I think it is just he needs to get his coaching into these lads more and more and more. And we will grow and grow and grow.
Predictions for Norwich's League Position
00:26:13
Speaker
Okay, so we'll move to listener questions. But I just want to, before we do that, Edie, I just want to get your, you know, where we stand at the moment. What's your prediction? Looking to your crystal ball, looking to your crystal badger. What is the final position going to be for Norris City Football Club? Where are we going to finish in the league? That is, I just
00:26:39
Speaker
I can't say it at this stage because it's it feels it's the so I mean, I have basically received match reviews as as a back end worker of the of the website. I've received match reviews, which over the past few weeks have just warmed up and warmed up and warmed up. But I'm still not. I don't know. I'm still quite anxious that there will be moments of disappointment because
00:27:06
Speaker
what we've seen is like the slow honing of instinct again, because previously, like we had minimal strategy and minimal instinct. And I think in the absence of strategy, instinct can help. So the strategy obviously is still getting refined, but the instinct seems to be growing. So it still feels a bit tentative. Like I think when you were talking about fifth or sixth,
00:27:32
Speaker
Like it's that cusp. It's that, it's that traditional nourish position where it has to make you bite your nails in some way, but always like you'll bite your nails and then you'll scratch your head. So if I was a magic eight ball, it would definitely be an inconclusive, I think. Okay. And what do you, what do you think puntylicious?
00:27:57
Speaker
The question is, where are we going to finish? Is that... Yeah, league position. Yeah, I think we'll finish sixth. And I think that we will come up short in the playoffs. And that's fine. I'm happy with that. Okay, so going back to the question that I posed, I would take seventh. I would take a guaranteed seventh over a guaranteed playoff final because I just think coming... I think we could really use just falling short
00:28:27
Speaker
in seventh and we wouldn't have to get over a massive, we wouldn't have to get over as much upset and defeat as we would if we lost in the semi-final or we lost even worse in the final. Surely we want to get fired up by that sort of thing. Like every set-up, every set-back, sorry, every set-back is the set-up for a comeback.
00:28:47
Speaker
Not my words, Parceling, the words of the rock. Okay. Like in all the war. I can see, you're on video, I can see it is written on your wall behind you, yeah. Yeah, it is in gothic script because... Yeah, it is gothic. I just thought he was bad handwriting, right? Okay. Pun, could you list the questions, please?
00:29:07
Speaker
Right, I'm going to have to start with this one. So this is from Norwich fan Geganrecht on Twitter, and this is specifically for you, I think, Edie. Has there ever been a worse example of official club fan merch than the Marcelino Nunez Lovely Jubbly t-shirt? Which actually personally I thought wasn't a terrible idea,
00:29:31
Speaker
just not brilliantly executed, was it? It made no sense. I don't think clubs should do that kind of brand crossover merch. You know, like you've got a player called Reese and you do a t-shirt that says Reese's Pieces. But yeah, no, I just don't think teams should attempt that stuff. I think that should be for fan groups because fan groups get that stuff and clubs, like they shouldn't. If they do get that, then they're too hipster.
00:30:00
Speaker
to be running a football club. That has been a worst piece of football merch, and that is the Norwich City edition of Guess Who, the board play. The sheer construction of the faces on that board really make it a much more difficult game to play, let's put it that way. Ill-advised, somewhat frustrating to play, maybe for the connoisseur only.
00:30:29
Speaker
I see. Thomas, have you got any other advances on that? No. But now might be an opportune moment to just mention that we do have a David Wagner t-shirt on sale on the website, if anyone would want to partake in that. That's Vagnolution. That's Vagnolution. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I'll let people go and find that. A free sale available until 10th of March.
00:30:52
Speaker
Exactly, thank you. Right, next up, Liz Howler asks, will we look back in future years and curse ourselves that we never made Max Ehren's Player of the Season unless as a fan base we see sense this year? And I guess that kind of broadened it out in my mind to go, well, in my head, who is this season's Player of the Season thus far? Because I don't, you know, I'm thinking about it now, I haven't really got a proper answer for it.
00:31:19
Speaker
It will be Gabby. If it was, if the vote was tomorrow, it would be Gabby, wouldn't it? Because recency biases would kick in. I think even Pookie won't win this time. He's nowhere near it. Absolutely nowhere near it.
00:31:35
Speaker
if there's been an orange season and he's involved. I would say Maxi has been top three performers all season, definitely. I'd be astonished if he didn't get in the top three. Sarad will now, unless he either gets injured or has a massive drop in form between now and May. I can't see him not being top three. Nunez hasn't done enough, Sarge, and it's not done enough. Pookie's not done enough. The goalkeepers have been in and out of the team. The defenders have won. If we're going on recency bias again, are we throwing on L into the mix?
00:32:03
Speaker
Well, I mean, he also has got vibes and bounce factor. So, you know, he is... Is that a particular factor? Yes, yes, there's a scientific factor in player of the season, vibes and bounce, V and B. So I think there is a chance that he will be in there. And again, like from a defensive point of view, we saw it for Millwall at the weekend.
00:32:26
Speaker
If you even took half of the embarrassing Sunday League level mistakes that are defenders, make in the same game in which they make fantastic goal line clearances and brave headers and do really brilliant pieces of movement to track runners and snuff out attacks, and then also just give away a goal. Just take away 50% of them. We're in the top four of this league, maybe even the top two.
00:32:52
Speaker
because, you know, the draws are not draws and the wins are by bigger margins, et cetera. So, but I don't think you can have a defender in there. So, you know, as in center backs, I mean. So, yeah, I think just almost by the people who have had a sort of middling season, that's why it's probably going to be Sarah O'Neal, Max top three. But Max, unless he scores a couple of goals or like does something really marvelous in the running, he probably isn't highlighty enough to get top place. That's so clear.
00:33:22
Speaker
Go on then Edie, state your case for Max. Yeah, he shows up. It's not often that you would look at him on the pitch and think he's somewhere else, which has occurred in multiple occasions with multiple players this season. He has shown up every single day, like
00:33:42
Speaker
I put it in my top three. I mean, it's quite complimentary. I am shocked, parsley. Absolutely shocked that you have not used this opportunity to further the cause of Kenneth McLean.
Candidates for Player of the Season
00:33:53
Speaker
Yeah, well, I mean, I'm talking about who's likely to get it. Kenny McLean, I think, has been
00:34:00
Speaker
a really consistent performer. However, for more than half the season, he has been a scapegoat for idiots. So, and idiots are allowed to vote in polls as well. And talk on this podcast. Yeah, I let you come on every week. I think he has been superb. He's a player's player. He's a manager's player.
00:34:20
Speaker
He divides opinion amongst the fans. I do think he has been particularly superb since Wagner took over, but I think he was brave enough to be on the ball during the awful soft dumpling era. And that meant that he was just as available mistakes. But Hanley, who I think is brilliant and has a good overall season, Hanley and Gibson have made way more mistakes that lead to goals than McLean has done. So, I mean, I don't think McLean's got a chance of winning it, but yeah, he'd be in my top three.
00:34:50
Speaker
So who's your candidate because others have made way more mistakes? No, I'm just pointing out the thing that is held against Kenny is way more of an issue for other players. I'm not saying that it's because of other things. I would say that Kenny has done more this season than Onel
00:35:11
Speaker
in an overall contribution. But if you were to ask most Norwich fans, I doubt his name would come to mind before O'Neal because O'Neal's got a good song and he's got a tattoo and he likes Argos and his vibes and bands. The thing is, though, it's like we've suffered from at least one year of a terrible case of main character syndrome at multiple main characters, all bouncing off against each other. You know, we've had the Yellowhead son from Dearham. We've had Mr. Mountain.
00:35:40
Speaker
We've had, you know, people should be, shouldn't be mean to me because I'm performing badly at the game of football. All of these people, I think Kenny was one of them. He did tend to kind of, he did veer into main character syndrome occasionally. And that was behind a lot of his, his errors. And I would just like to usher in a more cohesive team vibe. And by doing so, I would like to hold up Max Ahrens as the cornerstone, the solid foundation.
00:36:08
Speaker
The exact opposite of main character syndrome, the supporter, the worker. Nice. So the campaign starts here. Yep. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, I'm with you as long as I can have Kenny in second. You can have who you like. You only get one vote, don't you?
00:36:25
Speaker
I know some of the Elite fans get two votes. Okay, all right, do you get that email? Yeah, do you? Nice, nice. I'm kind of all over the dial with these questions but we're just changing it up a little bit. Mick Saunders has asked, he said, rest in peace, Robert Chase, which I'd absolutely echo, but he's asked us and we're all probably of a certain vintage where we can remember his tenure.
Reflecting on Robert Chase's Legacy
00:36:48
Speaker
On balance, was he good or bad for Norwich City? And Mick kind of acknowledges he oversaw some real success. Probably our most competitive squad at the top level. But then other stuff happened and it all went a bit sour.
00:37:01
Speaker
Other stuff did happen. Isn't that of endless story though? Yeah, I mean, anything other than classic. He would have been the chairman for three European campaigns, in terms of he did enough, the things that he could affect. Was he chairman in the mid 80s? Yeah, I think so. I thought that was someone else. He might have been chairman. He was at the club, definitely.
00:37:27
Speaker
Yeah, you're probably right. Yeah. Well, anyway, the point is someone will correct us. They invariably they do. But my point is he was a huge part of the club. I steering influence in the club, whether he was chairman or not, I think he was. But whether during a period of when we have been at our most, you know, it was assumed that we would be in the top flight and it didn't look like we wouldn't be in the top flight.
00:37:52
Speaker
for years to come. And that hasn't happened since, apart from one season, the middle bit of that three year run where I went into a Premier League season thinking we're probably going to stay up because we stayed up quite comfortably previously. But even then, you're still a bit worried until you get to 40 points.
00:38:10
Speaker
So you have to give huge credit for that. And also he's a part of the story. He's a part of the narrative. To a certain degree, we are where we are now because of the decisions he took and some of the law around player transfers and Sutton and that press conference. But even things like some of the really ugly stuff around the
00:38:36
Speaker
police horses charging and the chase out stuff. That's so indelibly part of the story of 90s Norwich. But that's what made me sad about all of this. So I've met Robert Chase a couple of times and I have to say he is a lovely, or was a lovely, lovely man. And I think maybe
00:38:57
Speaker
he did do loads of really good things for this football club and then maybe the size of the task got a bit too big for him and got away from not just him but other people that were steering the football club at the time and then it all unraveled and we all know the story but what made me sad is that
00:39:15
Speaker
He never wanted to talk about it afterwards. He never really got his opportunity to tell that story. And look, we've spoken to players that were in and around the club at that time, and they all speak so glowingly about that man. You know, you've seen the likes of Darren Edie, Brian Gunn all come out like recently since the news.
00:39:35
Speaker
and just talking the most affectionate of terms about him, which I think says a lot given that his tenure at the end of his tenure was relatively controversial with fans. Edie, what do you remember of Mr Chase? I remember precisely nothing. Because this was the era I was cruelly ripped away from Norwich and basically forced to move to a... Did Robert Chase tell you?
00:40:03
Speaker
If only there was any kind of, you know, choice in the matter. Had I aged 11, had an agent, I would have appreciated that sort of discussion. No, I was basically planted in a terrible seaside town with a terrible football club. Yarmouth. If only.
00:40:30
Speaker
And yeah, and basically my entire life has been a journey to make it back to the correct area of Britain from said seaside club. So I don't know too much about his tenure. I do obviously know about the era. And so if he is part of that, then it's definitely something that we should probably have been gathering some form of oral history about.
00:40:56
Speaker
It's a tremendous shame that we haven't, but maybe this is a kick up the bum to find other people who could tell stories and capture said stories. We've got stats up the wazoo. Everybody's got books of stats everywhere. You can go in HMV and buy about four copies of different stats books.
00:41:12
Speaker
Um, are we collecting enough stories? Yeah. Excellent. We should probably get Lorny on it. Um, I presume there will be a, um, uh, minutes of applause on, on Saturday. Sorry, Sunday for him. I haven't seen anything in terms of an announcement you would expect. So the chairman of the most, the club's most successful, you know, era. Yeah. I mean, you would imagine that would be the case. Um, and maybe to Edie's point that will trigger some, um, some discussion and some discourse and there might be some nice little narrative bits and Bob. So I imagine our friends.
00:41:42
Speaker
Michael and Paddy and Connor will be on that and seeing if there's anything they can pull together for us to read. Have we got time for one more before we lose Edie to the world of Connor? Yeah. Let's do one more. And this is, so I'll talk about this quickly before I hand over to Edie. So this is Steve on Twitter. Sorry, Steve, you haven't got a surname on your profile.
Stuart Weber's Insights: Role and Future
00:42:02
Speaker
Don't say so. It's not awful. Well, I'm not taking responsibility. Yeah. Sort yourself out, Steve. Respect Steve's choices, John. Yes, Steve. You're such a Steve-apologist. You always have been.
00:42:13
Speaker
Well, my middle name is Steven, so that might, you know, that may just explain all wounded. Exactly. Anyway, Steve, our good friend Steve now asks.
00:42:24
Speaker
Who is better at ignoring the noise? Elon Musk or Stuart Weber? And I'm guessing, obviously you're being playful with even acknowledging this question, but I'm guessing that he is referencing the most recent Training Ground Guru podcast, which actually I think is worthy of discussion. I don't know if either of you guys have listened to it or just seen the pink in headlines. How is 90% high performance? Go on.
00:42:53
Speaker
Oh, that's my question. That's your question. Yeah. Well, Stuart Webber spoke really well on the Training Ground Guru's recent podcast, and I think there were some throwaway lines, which I don't know if he chucked in deliberately. Well, now he did chuck in deliberately about the local press and, you know, yeah. And all of those bits. And and I did feel like he was still wallowing in
00:43:18
Speaker
Oh, well, is me about that? And why did they attack me? And why did the fans kind of come at me? But actually, it felt like for long sections of it, the stuff that was covered around Colney, around player recruitment, around reshaping our recruitment after Brexit about the South American stuff, it felt like Weber had a little bit of his 1819 mojo back and his focus and his purpose. And I was like, OK,
00:43:45
Speaker
If that's the Stewart Webber that we're getting, you know, for say, however long he's at the football club, then I was I was more comfortable with that. It was interesting that he he also seemed to acknowledge that he was a much better. I think he references a much better.
00:44:02
Speaker
change manager, if we're going to talk about business terms, then a status quo manager, and he needed to have almost that period of flux and new things and, you know, to be implementing stuff. And I know maybe that suggests what might have gone wrong over the last couple of years, that it's all just got a bit same. But possibly that is the case.
00:44:22
Speaker
but then you know oh well you know he didn't he didn't get pushed on the chelsea stuff because obviously we know he spoke to chelsea but he yet he also said he was quite happy to stay here and it would take quite a lot for him to move to a different job in football so i don't know whether his tone has changed or whether the chelsea interview experience maybe scarred him or just whether that's not as true he sat down with someone finally and they've started to talk him through this sort of thing where
00:44:51
Speaker
You know, you cannot put out very provocative statements in an interview and then expect everyone just to go, yay, good on you. Like you cannot work in the business of football and then be surprised when people are passionate about the results that you're delivering combined with those statements. Like it's, it's, it's fairly easy maths.
00:45:19
Speaker
So I'm sure he's hurt because everyone is hurt if they get yelled at. And obviously I couldn't say what has or hasn't happened. There are things obviously like, you know, intimidation, not on, you know, saying crap in front of kids, not on. In terms of the actual legitimate criticism of a man who said that he intends to give 90% of his bandwidth to a club,
00:45:44
Speaker
and then expect people to kind of go, yes, that's right. You put your feet up, we'll carry on with our terrible results. He touched on that in fairness. He did touch on that in the recent interview and said, look, some of those comments are out of context. Actually, the way in which he's going to engage with his mountaineering was very much within his kind of contractual annual leave stuff. I thought he gave reasoned and considered answers that maybe he should have done a while ago. I think it was almost like he'd had that time to think about it.
00:46:13
Speaker
I'm sure because he made a terrible, terrible mistake. I think he'd come out of this a lot better if he admitted he made a terrible, terrible mistake. But at some stage, he just got people it's very easy for people to feel like they should get away with stuff if they're doing stuff for charity or doing good deeds. You should be just as accountable, no matter what you're doing or what you're purporting to be doing.
00:46:37
Speaker
think he kind of just got a little bit kind of, I don't know, just feels like a very early midlife crisis, if anything, he should have just got himself a nice cut price lotus, and possibly leather jacket. But if he comes out of it, having learned some lessons, and that's great. And, you know, he should be a big fan of accountability, we've heard a lot about it in various podcasts. So,
00:47:04
Speaker
that's how we we we grow, we we take accountability, we develop self awareness. And then we tend not to repeat previous mistakes. So if he's on that journey, then I applaud that decision. I applaud that journey. And I can only hope for a better showing to come.
00:47:26
Speaker
I would like that showing to continue with some local media interviews. I think it would have been great for, I will listen to this podcast that you mentioned, John, I'd never heard of it until Stuart Weber decided to go on it. I just think what if he'd have had that conversation
00:47:51
Speaker
you know, when he felt ready to maybe say about out of context and, you know, accountability, et cetera, maybe he could have had that conversation with the people he fell out with the worst about it. Or we could just ask him if he wants to come on this podcast, because I'm sure he'd be well up for that.
00:48:09
Speaker
So I think the opportunity to heal those kind of wounds comes with a winning football team. And we have one of those. We are top of the form table, joint.
00:48:22
Speaker
And we have got very winnable games coming up So I hope that if we can maybe get we can split and you know get get three points out of Out of those kind of tricky games. We've got come against the playoffs teams We're almost certainly gonna be there or there abouts, but we have to dispatch sonsland and we have to dispatch Huddersfield Can I get some guarantees please of a points haul from those two games John first?
00:48:50
Speaker
Oh, Sunderland and Huddersfield. I'm going to say four, because I think we're going to draw on Sunday. Yeah, I think we probably could have worked out that. Oh, you think Sunday's the draw, not Huddersfield's the draw? OK. Yeah. Edie's pulling her face. That might just be her face. It might be wind. Sunderland, really? I just thought that'd be her. You know. It's just a gut feel, mate. That's all it is. It's not based on any kind of logic. Yeah, you're right. Sunday on the telly is never really traditional fare for big, old Norwich wind.
00:49:20
Speaker
Big old Norwich with a big old swimming pool. What about you Edie? What are you saying? Points Hall from the next two games? Well, I can see perhaps like a draw would be a disappointing reality. So maybe, maybe a right punch. But yeah, no, I'd see us sort of probably winning both in an equally kind of embarrassing style with some moments of what the hell are you playing at, but that's scrabbling through just as everyone sort of starts to fall in place a bit more and
00:49:50
Speaker
have a clearer idea of what they're doing and, you know. I think it's going to be three nil on Sunday and four nil on Wednesday. And we are going to be in fifth by the next time we talk, which will probably be after part of the skill pod. I was right about the last set. Let's hope I'm right about these. Thank you, Edie, for your time. Thank you, Pumps, for existing. Stop to watch. Yes, always. Exactly. But I think actually I'm right more than twice a day. Is it twice a day? Is that the analogy?
00:50:18
Speaker
I'd like to speak to your wife about that, mate. Okay, fine. Just kidding, Clary. You've talked about that. We do have to set some boundaries. Mine, there you go.