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Halloween (1978)
22 Plays5 months ago
Movie spoilers abound! We’re talking about the horror classic Halloween (1978) for this very fitting holiday special. Masks, murder, stalking, strangling, parent-names, knives, yin-yang, and so much more fill this jam-packed episode... So grab your Captain Kirk mask and join Kylie and Skyler for another episode of Phsysics 101!
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Transcript
Content Warning for Sensitive Topics
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi everyone. Before we get started, we'd like to put in a light trigger warning here for murder, stalking, death, blood, pretty much anything you can think of in a slasher movie. We're going to be talking about it here. So if that is not going to be good for your mental health, please join us back here next time. We look forward to seeing you then.
00:00:40
Speaker
All right.
Introduction to the Podcast and Hosts
00:00:41
Speaker
Hi everyone and welcome to the Psych 6 101 where we discuss everything about the world of Psych and the antics of Shawn and Gus in sunny Santa Barbara. I'm Skylar and this is my partner, Bob.
Discussion on the 1978 Film 'Halloween' and Its Influence
00:00:51
Speaker
And today we will be discussing Halloween, the very first one ever. 19, what is it? 78? 78. 1978, another seminal, I guess, depending on who you ask, iconic.
00:01:05
Speaker
iconic for sure horror franchise which hopefully also we'll talk about the franchise as a whole yeah yeah you're right i know it's like iconic as a horror movie but yeah this is i mean how many are there oh my god did you look ridiculous they it's like there was one last year like 10 or something halloween franchise well and from what from what i realized about watch all 13 Halloween movies in order. Wow. I wonder if they'll stop at 13. That would be good. Because that's you know, spooky
Exploring the Timelines and Story Versions of the Halloween Franchise
00:01:36
Speaker
number. spooky number yeah But for from looking into this, there's like
00:01:42
Speaker
three different like worlds of Halloween. Oh, interesting. Like one's paranormal, one follows like the original storyline, one's like a remake of the original storyline. Well, you know, there's, I mean, there's so much to say. There's like, so I feel like we're going to be all over the place. But I can, for one, I can see why they have so many because this guy does not die.
The Unkillable Nature of Michael Myers
00:02:04
Speaker
He will not die.
00:02:05
Speaker
He's the embodiment of evil. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And in that sense, it does feel sort of paranormal, even though like he's just this person. dude Yeah. Like the way he seems to be unkillable and also like the way. Yeah, just like this very like this very heavy presence that he has. It does feel sort of like inhuman. Yeah. um and the doctor refers to him, well he's referred to as like the boogeyman. He is sort of this like figure more than a being. It's interesting. yeah So I could see why they went in, or they could go in a lot of different directions.
00:02:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Oh, definitely. I thought it was interesting hearing about the fact that there are like almost multiple different timelines for Halloween. Because I feel like even when we have a franchise with multiple different movies, they all kind of at least somehow tack together in a way. Like, oh, maybe one is a kid of the the first one and like the guy comes back or whatever. So it's a different storyline, but there there is some kind of cohesion. Apparently that's not the case.
00:03:15
Speaker
Like a new director comes in and they're just like, oh, we're going to do something. And you know, I think Friday the 13th is very similar. I just looked up, they have 12. Oh my gosh.
Comparative Analysis with Other Horror Franchises
00:03:26
Speaker
Okay. And I have seen one of them for my bad movie podcast.
00:03:29
Speaker
know um And I think they've done a couple because it's similar, we're like, you know, by episode, like movie number nine or whatever he's like in space. Yeah.
00:03:40
Speaker
so it's like got to keep up in the state yeah like you yeah some point They go off in a lot of different directions. And it's like, cut you know, there's there's an aspect of that that is like kind of fun and still entertaining, but in a very different way than maybe the original movies were. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It'd be interesting, like, I don't know about like the level of fandom with these movies. Like if there are people who maybe you don't accept certain ones or like like what or yeah but they yeah what they consider canon versus not or like
00:04:20
Speaker
um If they, if they do approach it as like, Oh, like it's just, it's fun. And like, they're going to do a lot of weird things or if they get like mad about yeah it. I don't know what the consensus is. It'd be interesting to.
00:04:37
Speaker
talk to people who are really in the world. no It is possible that we will you know watch all 23 more, yeah however many more of these this and Friday the 13th. Who knows, we will. No promises, but we're discussing before this is becoming a bit of a horror podcast. yep um Which is odd because I mean and neither of us are really no into this. But it's also nice that neither of us are because we're both coming to it so fresh.
00:05:11
Speaker
Yeah. And like you said before, I can't remember if we were already recording or not. It's
Academic Approach to Horror Films
00:05:16
Speaker
nice to get like an academic perspective on it or to look at it through an academic lens instead of just, you know, sometimes I feel like a ah love of something um can often preclude our vision. It can make it a little bit difficult to be academic on some of it. um We're trying our best not to let it, you know,
00:05:37
Speaker
but taint our vision when it comes to psych. But yeah, I think it i think it's interesting to come into it with fresh eyes. Yeah, because I mean that's like it's interesting that you mentioned psych because I do feel like when you have your own relationship with a Canon it's like and also like after so many years you can also develop a lot of your own like head canons about sure yeah so it's like interesting to come at something and try to take it for what it is and what they present on the screen or in the text and just like
00:06:10
Speaker
really engaged with that, like what is there. um So yeah, I do feel like that's kind of what we're trying to do with Psych, especially like starting from the beginning and then and also like looking at all these references. But yeah, with this, it's like we only know what is like from pop culture about these. So yeah, it's cool to come at them as what they are, especially these like original
Cultural Impact of 'Halloween'
00:06:36
Speaker
ones. I mean, right and I just saw, I actually watched, I finished, I watched it in like two sittings, but I think I finished it on the 25th, which happened to be like the 45th anniversary or something. No way! Of it coming out, forty six something like that.
00:06:50
Speaker
I came out on the 25th, so I I mean movies have been around for so long. and yeah um hum movie saying like As soon as that music kicks in, it's like we know what that is, even though we have no relationship with these movies at all. yeah It is, it skates.
00:07:13
Speaker
embedded in the culture now. Yeah and like seeing the mask um which yes was cool in a way because it's like I was curious what the origin of the mask was like if that was what he looked like like I don't know you know we've only seen it as a mask. in how Apparently it's supposed to be or it was a William Shatner mask from really Star Trek yeah Because I know when when they are at the um hardware store and there has been a break in and like the only things that were stolen were some ropes, some knives, and a Halloween mask. So I was just like, okay, so it's just a mask.
Origins and Significance of Michael Myers' Mask
00:07:55
Speaker
That's interesting that it was trying that it was supposed to be anything. Well, I don't know if it was supposed to be that, but what they pulled was a William Shatner mask from. Well, that is i mean that makes sense though, because yeah it would be odd to just have like a mask.
00:08:09
Speaker
Yeah, and such a detailed mask too. It was really quite face-like. Yeah, well only having seen it like on literal like Halloween costumes yes in real life, i was like I didn't know if that was just his face or like oh yeah what it was. you know go it like To know that it is just it's a Halloween mask. like I don't know, it's ah it's a really interesting kind of origin story for this because yeah he just steals it like there's no well and
00:08:42
Speaker
So in the beginning, remind me, because you know, I never, never remember details very well. So in the beginning we get, and I do want to talk about the spooky music and everything, but when we get the big reveal in the beginning of who just killed the girl. Yeah, huge. So, well, and we, so in Black Christmas, we talked about like, that was like the first real like POV shots. And so like, this is full of them too.
00:09:06
Speaker
litter yeah Shaky camera shots from outside the house, like with the creeper in black Christmas. Yes. Yeah. We are academics. Okay. Come on. Like man we are we are like, it is cool. Like also like watching these and seeing the genre evolve and like yeah come into what it is. Yeah. And it was really cool to like go back to Alfred Hitchcock, which sort of predates. Yeah. but yeah um But yeah, so I feel like because what Black Christmas is 76. Yeah. And then so by this time, it's like it's it has to be a subversion of that. And so you get this reveal of who is actually like behind them the POV that we're in. So go ahead. and So was he? No, no. Yeah, exactly. My question, though, was was he wearing a mask? Because I remember he was in a clown outfit. But was he wearing something on his face or no? I don't.
00:10:00
Speaker
think he was but okay that's interesting that you say that because yeah it does kind of feel like you're looking through a mask but with the POV it's like it could work either way because you're just like looking through his eyes Wait, did he pick up a mask? There was something on the floor.
Psychological Analysis of Michael Myers
00:10:21
Speaker
We might. okay There was something on the floor. now that ah Now that I'm thinking about it, I think there was something on the floor and he picked it up and he put it on his face. So I wonder if the origin of like the quote unquote Michael Myers mask is just that his first kill
00:10:40
Speaker
was in relationship to a mask. He had a mask on during his first kill, and therefore he needed to continue some form of masking. Interesting. Well, that is interesting. like As far as like the psychology of this killer, that makes sense. since And and it's we get only like one moment towards the end in his final battle with Jamie Curtis where she gets it off, and he just like very quickly puts it back on. And i would it was kind of a weird moment. like You don't see much. He's just like in shadows.
00:11:11
Speaker
And, but he is very quick to like get it back on. Yeah. And so it does. Yeah. Maybe that is part of like, he needs to be behind the mask. Right. And maybe in, maybe in the world, it didn't really matter what mask it was. Yeah. He just needs one to be a mask. Yeah. It's interesting what he found.
00:11:30
Speaker
ah Really long opening credits too. I was like, they don't make credits like this anymore. Yeah, totally. But it I thought it worked so well that like super spooky music and this zoom in onto this pumpkin, which apparently the pumpkin was supposed to represent, the the nose was supposed to represent the knife.
00:11:49
Speaker
that he uses to stab people and the eye was supposed to represent the outline of his mask so it's supposed to like already be kind of priming you yeah for what's going to take place in the movie which i thought was really interesting i definitely saw the knife i don't know how much i saw the mask but that's what they say Okay, interesting. He does he picks up a clown mask and he puts it on and then you switch to seeing through the eye holes and then he kills her. There you go. There you go. There you go. So yeah, you're totally right on. It's like he has to be. He has to be covered to to do that.
Role of Children and Michael's Childhood
00:12:27
Speaker
Yeah, that's interesting. Maybe it's like the. The part of him who who commits the crime like that is.
00:12:37
Speaker
Like that part is the, is, I don't know. It's like, it's like, there's two parts of it, you know, and like the one who does the killing has a mask. Yeah. um Yeah. Yeah, i I mean, I think that would make sense. And especially considering how how much Loomis, the doctor who is responsible for Michael Myers' care, considering how much he talks about how disturbed this young child was and and how, in all of his career, he's been able to help a lot of people. But you know Michael Myers, he was not able to help, and that's why he was locked in an institution. And like no one was supposed to talk to him or whatever.
00:13:17
Speaker
I think it would make sense that um maybe there is kind of a disconnect between him and the killings. It's not him, Michael Myers, it's him, this person behind a mask. know But i also think um I also think the mask definitely helps with the whole boogeyman aspect of it, of this kind of like in Black Christmas, it could be anyone in your house, it could be anybody's house, right? It could be anyone behind the mask. So I really felt that at the end,
00:13:46
Speaker
Because of skipping all the way to the enemy house all the way. He's been like, he's been stabbed, he's been... but he's been stabbed a couple of times and then finally he's shot by the doctor ah once he like multiple times too multiple times and he goes off the site like he goes off the balcony or whatever around the window and um and then like the doctor looks away and looks back and he's gone and then yeah so yeah unkillable um and then we just see like these
00:14:20
Speaker
shots of every location in the dark. And there is this feeling of like he could be anywhere. Yeah, totally. He could be anyone. He could be anywhere. Like, and yeah, you never saw his face. Like, yeah, it is. It does create like, well, it kind of depersonalizes him and creates this like and anonymity. Yes.
00:14:40
Speaker
Exactly. Very interesting. And I think the use of, I think the use of what is theoretically in the world, like a mask marker, mask, does kind of allow anyone yeah to be Michael Myers. Yeah, absolutely. Which is also very terrifying. Yeah, very chill. I mean, masks are creepy. like there Especially like, freak me out I mean, when you can't see, they just the way they're so still, yeah there's no expression. Like it is very chilling. Like when he's just watching her and then you just see him behind a bush or whatever and just that blank face, it is pretty creepy. Yeah, definitely.
00:15:28
Speaker
What is interesting, like, cause what we have watched so far is like these very like seminal works. Yes. In a way. Well, some of the reading I was doing on Halloween. on the Wikipedia page was like talking about how it like at the time was like, oh, it's like a ripoff of Alfred Hitchcock and stuff. So it's like it is iconic, but it's not. So I say that because I use the word seminal. And so maybe it's like not quite, but it also like is. I don't know. But there's like ones before it that we haven't watched yet, but we will. We will. Yeah. yeah ah episode dedicated to it Yeah. So I mean, it's cool going back to like the roots and like understanding like
00:16:08
Speaker
these yeah just like what it's trying to do yeah and like really thinking about like what it is doing and yeah like the effect it has hu on the viewer it was interesting watching this have to go back and like bring us back into it at some point. But it was interesting watching this because at first ah we put it on and my two-year-old almost two-year-old was there and I'm like, oh, he doesn't pay attention to stuff. So it's fine. But he was like so engrossed. Really?
00:16:42
Speaker
Yeah, so after like 20 minutes of the way, okay, I'm gonna have to watch this when he's not around because I'm like, I don't want to, but the main thing I was thinking was even if he doesn't know what's going on, the music has such a physical effect. Yes, I was just gonna ask that exactly. Yeah, there's so much tension in yes and just like, and I mean, and that's iconic music. As soon as it came on, I was like, Oh my God, it's that song. I literally, this is the traditional spooky Halloween music. Yeah, this is it.
00:17:10
Speaker
it like which And I love that too, because tell we we have been talking about, you know, what we think we understand about horror. So it's really cool to like go back and be like, and by the end of this project, you know, we will be able to speak to horror as a genre because we'll have watched it all. Like right not all of it, but a lot of these, a lot of it. Yeah. And a lot of these like original ones. Yeah. So yeah, it's cool. I'm I'm like,
00:17:40
Speaker
I can't believe I'm watching them because it's like so out of my wheelhouse. But I'm also like glad as like a scholar. Yes, a scholar of psych. exactly Exactly. Which I did have a thought with my son watching it. I was like, maybe I'll make a little James Rodeo out of this. Could you imagine? It's going to be deep in his mind. ah Oh my gosh. It won't be like little one. Look at what was happening when you were young. We foresaw all of this. Yeah.
Paranormal vs. Reality in Halloween's Events
00:18:11
Speaker
I mean, there's some really, the role of children in this movie is really interesting. We're going to have to dig into that. yeah um Yeah. Yeah. I was wondering, maybe we can talk about, well, I don't know, we brought it up. So yeah, he, I guess I'll talk about it.
00:18:27
Speaker
Go ahead, and i'll get you to it. So we've mentioned that he's really essentially unkillable. And I'm sure by the fact that there are 13 movies that also tells you just how he is. I was wondering, do we think So I kind of ran into this problem. I kind of ran into this problem with Hill House where sometimes it is sometimes it's sometimes difficult for me in a show that seems so real to determine when something
00:18:58
Speaker
is supposed to be taken as paranormal and when something is supposed to be taken as realistic. So, for example, in this case, I wonder, do we think he really is just like a paranormal being in this world that like can't be killed? Or do we think he has like one of those crazy you know neurological diseases where he just can't feel pain, so he gets stabbed and he like stands up and can continue to walk because he doesn't feel the pain. Interesting.
00:19:26
Speaker
yeah but Yeah, I mean it's hard because it's also like it does feel very grounded and in real world, but also like some would say that there are paranormal things in the real world. right So like like when we talk about psych it's interesting. I have been thinking about this a lot because I've been watching some castle.
00:19:48
Speaker
I feel like in Psych we have talked about how Psych, the show, does not believe in psychics. That is our opinion. That's our reading of it. yeah and then watching Castle is really interesting because I feel like Castle, the show, believes in everything. Right. and So it like leaves a lot of room for like, like, yes, this is sort of fantastical, but also like they are in reality and it and reality is fantastical. Right. And so it's like, I think in some ways it can be both. And maybe that makes it more scary. You know, it's like you don't know.
00:20:25
Speaker
And that kind of adds to like, like, you don't know when he's going to come back or like, like at the end when she thinks she has defeated him and she goes upstairs, she's stabbed him with a kneading, a knitting needle. And she goes upstairs to the kids, who she's babysitting. We really haven't framed it at all, but just watch the movie, then come back. um But ah she goes up and she's like,
00:20:55
Speaker
She's like, I killed him. And then he comes up right behind her. And so it's like he always comes back. Always. And so maybe that's part of it. It's like you don't get to win and so and you don't know like and you don't know why. Yeah. And that like you said, that is pretty unsettling, not having an explanation for why that is that that keeps happening. Yeah. I can get that.
00:21:20
Speaker
And maybe that's why the doctor is so scared, because like he is ah yeah a mental health professional. um And so maybe the fact that he is unable to help this person is like what's so unsettling to him. yeah and And he doesn't know. like The only thing he can think of to do is keep them confined. and And he cannot. Yeah, that's a spooky scene too. Just that when he escapes? Yeah.
00:21:56
Speaker
Yeah. Well, okay. So we have the opening where we follow this killer POV and like we were just skipping through it. It's like five minutes that we follow this POV. And you don't know who it is, obviously. Yeah. And then they pick up a clown mask. They stab a young woman who was just in, who was just making out with her boyfriend and couch and then she goes and she's like going to take a shower or something. And she through the eyes of the mask, we see her get stabbed. And then her parents are arriving home um and we see that the killer is a little boy. yeah So I would say a subversion of expectations. Oh, definitely. Yeah. So that happens. And then we go, we're in the car with Lumis, the doctor and a nurse, I guess.
00:22:45
Speaker
Yeah. And they're driving through the dark and it's stormy and it's creepy. Yeah. And is he in the car? Are they taking him to the hospital? No, they're going to the hospital. I think the nurse is supposed to meet him or something, or maybe they were going to do a checkup on him or something.
00:23:02
Speaker
ah okay cause That was one thing I was not sure what i wasn't sure like what was really going on. Yeah, no. the The two of them were going to meet him or maybe to move him or something like that, but they were going there to see him. and When they get there outside of the institution, they just see a bunch of the patients wandering around in not even like clothes in like yeah hospital gowns yeah gowns thank you exactly in hospital gowns in the pouring rain just like wandering and we only see them when the headlights of the car pan over them which is really creepy
00:23:40
Speaker
who And so they get to the front gates of this institution and of course they have to you know go and like press a button so that the gates will open and the doctor gets out of the car. And when he does this, who we eventually find out is Michael Myers, jumps on the top of the car and like pushes his arm into the car and starts trying to pull the nurse out of the vehicle.
00:24:03
Speaker
He eventually succeeds in getting her out of the car and he jumps in and steals the car and drives off, which they made a very he made a very big point to say like, he's been in this institution since he was eight. How does he know how to drive a car? I feel like it's not really that hard. All the four things you can do. You can wing it. Yeah, right. As long as it's not like a ah stick shift. with Well, maybe it is. ah if This might be a dumb question. Were there automatics in 1978?
Realism of Michael Myers Driving a Car
00:24:32
Speaker
Yeah, parts weren't as common, but yeah. ah Yeah. Cause I would, I could definitely see if someone was driving a stick shift being like, how the hell did they manage that? Like that's a very temperamental. That is funny though. That, that is like a weird moment. Cause that's a a bit later when, or I guess it's just the next day, like Loomis comes back to the hospital and it's kind of giving them, uh, an earful and, and the doc, the head doctor or whatever there is like, says something about from driving a car. Maybe, is he questioning the fact that it was him maybe or something? Yeah, he he Loomis is encouraging them to look further than the radius that they have currently looked for Michael Myers. He's encouraging them to look all the way back at the hometown, which is apparently many, many miles away. And Loomis says from the beginning, that's where he's going. Correct. And the doctor is like, that's so far. He doesn't even know how to drive a car. like He's not getting there.
00:25:31
Speaker
yeah and luomis is like be someone around here It is like an odd moment. Oh, definitely. The whole thing in the beginning is definitely even just like the dialogue and the way that everything's set up is kind of unsettling. Like jumping back and forth between this guy who is, says he's a doctor, but we really don't understand. Like we haven't seen his relationship be built with Michael Myers. Like, yeah.
00:26:02
Speaker
Okay, I have a question. yes Who is the protagonist of this movie? Oh, ah intrigue. I would say Jamie Lee Curtis. That is my thought too, but we start with the doctor and we can keep going back. You're right. we yeah yeah there's we have like this We have like three stories all intersecting but going on.
00:26:25
Speaker
yeah really And maybe that's part of what feels sort of jarring in the beginning is that we we have to, we start Michael Myers story and then we start Loomis' story and then we start Jamie the Curtis' story. And then they all converge sort of. Well, they really don't converge until that final scene when Loomis enters the house because right he is, we sort of keep jumping back to him as he hunts Michael Myers down. Right. And that's really the last leg.
00:26:53
Speaker
10 minutes of the movie? Yeah. Yeah. Because I was i did keep checking. I was like, OK. When does the killing start? And also, like when is the final battle here? Because yeah I like to know what what did a movie like this. I would like look ahead and be like, OK, is he going to pop out? All right, I'm safe for another couple of minutes.
00:27:13
Speaker
Yeah, this movie is definitely very suspensey. Yes. You're just waiting and waiting. Yeah, I was just in a bush. Yeah, and like, and the music is like, and just the sound design. It's like, yeah, ah a lot of waiting and watching and like, yeah, building tension. Because the next thing I was going to bring up was the friend Annie.
00:27:35
Speaker
ah Her, she's the first victim and and we must spend 15 minutes just watching it. Well, maybe, maybe their intention was to mimic Michael Myers watching of the victims as well.
00:27:52
Speaker
like think I mean we're watching kind of from his POV for a lot of it like we're just watching her like and and it is an interesting dynamic and we kind of see that in Black Christmas too but there's like a big element of stalking in this movie. yeah oh yeah That's like a big part of it is that he stalks them.
00:28:11
Speaker
Yes. the The thing that felt very different to me about this like watching in comparison to the Black Christmas watching, even though again, yes, definitely to a totally different degree, this is definitely stalking, it feels like nothing happens in this movie at times. like We're literally just watching them, like she's doing laundry.
00:28:36
Speaker
You know what I mean? And when she walked into that laundry house, I was like, oh my God, she's going to die. I was like, she's going to die. And it took like 10 more minutes. Which, okay. To bring it all back to psych. Yes. The laundry room and Annie goes into the laundry room and then Annie, are you okay? Are you okay? Are you okay, Annie?
Tension in Key Scenes
00:28:52
Speaker
Like, which I was like, I looked it up. I was like, is this a reference to that? And I, well, and I also looked up Annie, what, smooth criminal. Yes, I learned.
00:29:02
Speaker
on one of my more recent watches of Psych that Tuesday the 17th when he says, Andy, are you okay? Are you okay, Andy? It's lyrics from Smooth Criminal. Yeah, referencing. Yeah. And I'm like, is Smooth Criminal a reference to this? And it's not. But like, what are the odds? What are the odds? No, literally she walked in. And they bring her into the laundry room. Yeah. She walked into the laundry room and I was like, well, she died in a laundry room inside. She's going to die here. And then she didn't die. And I was like, we're still waiting. Holy good God. We're still waiting. But yeah, in black Christmas, even when we're waiting for the next thing to happen, like stuff's still going on. They're going to the police station. Yeah, that's true. There's a lot of downstairs. Yeah. Conflict.
00:29:39
Speaker
Yes, here it's just banal stuff, which is fine. I think it's more representative of what yeah Michael Myers is actually experiencing, just watching them yeah do their daily tasks. Yeah.
00:29:54
Speaker
And it's interesting that is that that is so much a part of his thing, because like the the first killing is, I mean, we we do watch for like five minutes, but that's it. like yeah So it's interesting that that like just following Jamie Lee Curtis around, and then it's interesting that he seems very fixated on Jamie Lee Curtis, but he goes after her friends first. That's kind of interesting.
00:30:24
Speaker
Right, so my question is why why do we think he's focused on Jamie Lee Curtis? Well, when I was watching, I wasn't sure what the dynamic was between the little boy and the first victim. And we later find out, or maybe we find out immediately and I missed it, but that is his sister. And so I thought maybe the diet like because he it's Judith Meyers.
00:30:53
Speaker
Wait. So he's home with his sister and he kills her. You mean the, sorry. When you very original and you said the little boy, yeah, I thought you meant the little boy that Jamie Lee Curtis was babysitting. And I was like, wait, what? Okay. So there we go. like So then, so Jamie, I mean, Michael Myers sees Jamie Lee Curtis and this little boy. And I'm like, maybe he just sees that dynamic, this relationship with his sister in the two of them.
00:31:19
Speaker
Yes. And so that's why I was like, Oh, like, was that his babysitter? Like, But it was his sister. But I was like not sure what was going on there. And so yeah, so I thought maybe he just he saw them together and like yeah that like triggered that phrase yeah that first murder.
00:31:35
Speaker
um but that And that also brings me back to like the role of children in this movie. like it Having seen this child kill this young woman in the first in the opening, it kind of makes children scary or like a threat in a way. yeah yeah like then we my kid, then we come to this, ah to this other little boy. And I was like, so yeah, I don't know. I was just like, okay, so what's going on with this little boy? And then we see him at school and he's got bullies. And I'm like, you know, there's like a lot of kids in this movie. Yeah, there were, especially for a horror movie. Yeah. Like a lot of kids. And then I was like, well, you can't have Halloween without children. Very true. It is a child holiday. Yeah. So yeah, it's just like, it's interesting that we have that going on.
00:32:24
Speaker
just all these kids. Yeah. Well, and it does like, I think it would make sense that the reason why he, like you said, the reason why he focused on her is because of that dynamic and maybe, I mean, I guess she like kind of looked like her too like darker hair and like tall so maybe yeah that's kind of triggering but the whole movie even like regardless of the fact that children are present like they are actually integral in it they're babysitting you know what I mean like yeah they would not be where they were they would have not been isolated from other people enough to be killed if not for babysitting mm-hmm yeah
00:33:07
Speaker
And that makes me wonder, is that what? this sister, what his sister was supposed to have been doing at the time, was she supposed to have been babysitting him? Maybe. Because that's also a theme that we see, that there most of them, other than Jamie Lee Curtis, are very irresponsible babysitters. Yeah, that's an interesting point. Yeah, maybe that maybe it there is this like resentment. like Maybe that's what it comes from, just sort of being left to his own devices. Right, right. Yeah, and like not being protected. like There is an interesting...
00:33:41
Speaker
I remember thinking that like being a babysitter in New York City and feeling like, if something happens, i will have I will sacrifice my life for these children. you know like That's a part of the right yeah um what you're being entrusted with. And so it is interesting to see how flippant yeah these babysitters are. And so maybe that is part of it. yeah And and i did I was like, I'm glad that I don't know if they would do it in a horror movie. Again, not that familiar with this with this genre, but like that none of these kids died. Yes, um yeah agreed. But maybe, if that is part of Michael Myers' its like motivation, maybe they wouldn't maybe he would never kill the kids, because it's like maybe that's part of
00:34:26
Speaker
m his motivation is to like protect the kids yeah or just yeah like on their behalf take it out on these people who aren't caring about them correctly right because when when now that i think of it Yeah, he's doing a lot of watching, a lot of spooky stalking stuff, but he doesn't actually kill anyone until Annie has dropped off a child she's supposed to be babysitting with Lori. So she's now being an irresponsible babysitter, clear as day. And then she- Yeah, she's like punished for it. Yeah. That's interesting. And the same, I mean, I don't, I can't remember, did
00:35:07
Speaker
I don't remember her name, the blonde one. Did the blonde one who was sleeping with Bob, did she also have a child she was supposed to be babysitting? Cause there was a whole, like there was a sidewalk walk and talk. lot A lot of information. kind But you're right. There was. Yeah. We were with that friend group and and they established the whole, uh, yeah, just like an exposition dump. I can't remember if it was all of them or not.
00:35:37
Speaker
I'm going to try to bring up the transcript and see if we can see what what wall was going on, because it is like an interesting... Well, okay, so after Michael Myers gets out, from there, it's basically all Halloween day, right? That would be the night before he escapes. And then it's the next day, all hall it's it all Halloween, we go to school, we get a pumpkin.
00:36:04
Speaker
I think there's maybe one more day in between because he escapes nearly right at the beginning. Uh-huh. But then we see, oh, is it? Is it all the same day? She picks him up. Is that the thing? Yeah,
Halloween Day Setting and Tension
00:36:17
Speaker
yeah. She picks him up at school. She picks him up in the morning, walks him to school. We're going to get a pumpkin in the afternoon. Yeah, I think you're right. I think it is all Halloween day. So that's.
00:36:30
Speaker
Interesting. yeah So like, just like in terms of like the, the world building of this. So it's like yeah Halloween and like, yeah, the, the girls is Linda, Jamie Lee Curtis. I know that's what I'm talking about. Yeah. Lori and Linda. Yeah. A lot, a lot of, uh, Oh, maybe she is Lori. A lot of old names.
00:36:55
Speaker
Well, old to us, I suppose. Yeah, Lori. Lori, Annie, and Linda. Linda is the blonde one. Okay. Victim number three, last victim. Yeah. Yes, number three. Okay. So Paul can't come over tonight because he got grounded, cooked for throwing eggs. And Lori says, I thought you were a babysitting. And Linda says the only reason she babysits is to have a place to dot, dot, dot, which kind of sets up what we were just saying. That's what his sister did too. Yeah.
00:37:24
Speaker
um but Yeah, so it's Halloween night and these kids are all being babysat because I guess their parents are going to parties or whatever. okay um So it's just kind of an interesting like world. like i don' Is that a thing? Yeah, that's a great point. Why would we children not trick or treating? Yeah, that too. Because we we do see kids trick or treating, but these kids are not part of it because I guess their parents have to go party. But also, I don't know how I would feel ah because I was going to just say, you're already entrusting your ah ah teenager, theoretically, with your child. Why not just have them walk around the neighborhood and get some candy? But then I'm like, well, inside the house is very different than outside the house. That's true. Oh yeah, for watching your kid for sure. Yeah. It's interesting though that it's Jamie Lee Curtis' idea to get the pumpkin, I think, which is sweet.
00:38:18
Speaker
That is really cool. She is like, I mean, that's her whole character. is She's a girl scout. Yes. She doesn't date. Oh, yeah. Yeah, she's shy. um She's like, yeah, she's like a goody two shoes, basically. Yeah. um Which I was like, you know, I'm always because I think we talked about this in Black Christmas, like I always kind of expect.
00:38:38
Speaker
gender things and like the exploitation of women and stuff. So it's like, so there is an element of that where like these girls who are, you know, getting frisky and stuff are punished for that. And then the good girl is rewarded by surviving. Right. But that can that can be true. And then also we have these other like, they are bad babysitters still. Yeah. Well, and I wonder, maybe but maybe it is also that.
00:39:07
Speaker
Maybe it is also the fact that they are bad babysitters, but they are also being bad babysitters by getting frisky with other people. Cause that's what Annie was going to do too. She was going to, she was going to wait, yeah she's going to go get paul Linda, right. And Bob, and then go get Paul and ditch everybody else, which is essentially what again happened in the beginning with Michael Myers. She was a shit babysitter, but also she was making out with this guy and.
00:39:36
Speaker
made that more important than watching or protecting the child. Yeah. A punishment for when behaving badly. Yes. and then So then we it comes back to Lori, who huh you know by all accounts is like a perfect little angel. She's a very devoted babysitter. She ends up watching two kids, and she's still he still goes after her. Which, I mean, it could just be the dynamic, but he still sees like his dynamic with his sister.
00:40:05
Speaker
Right two of them and okay again, I don't remember it perfectly but he so he's killed Annie and The little boy that Laurie is babysitting sees it And he's like, the boogie man, the boogie man. He sees him carry Annie's lifeless body, which is interesting. Okay. Let's go back to that. So Annie drops off the little girl she's babysitting at with Lori, and she like, That little girl is funny too. There's also like this motif of like screens in dark rooms that is unsettling. Yes, very. So the little girl's been watching TV and just like Annie's
00:40:52
Speaker
not really engaging with her in the way that we see like Lori engaging with the little boy. yeah um So Annie gets a call from Paul after she got stuck in the laundry room and um and finds out even I guess because Paul was grounded but his parents have gone out or something so he is able to get away and so he wants she wants to go meet up with him And she tells the little girl, like, come on, we're going to go meet Paul. We're going to pick him up. And the girl's like, I don't want to do that. And so she was like, what if I could fix it? Which I thought was so cute in the 70s that you could watch ah TV with the the Doyle kid or whatever.
00:41:31
Speaker
Yeah, yes so cute. and so Because they are like across the street from each other and so she ditches the kid she's babysitting at with Lori and goes to get Paul and she goes to get in her car to go get Paul and Michael Myers is in there and strangles her and that is That's a tough tough scene to watch. It's quite a long strangling.
00:41:59
Speaker
Yeah, I mean it really only stops because I think he actually stabs her. Like he's trying to strangle her. Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, she won't be strangled so he stabs her instead. But just the idea of someone in the back of your car. Oh gosh.
00:42:15
Speaker
is one of the freakiest things. It's the worst. The worst. And this, I saw this and I was like, no, my worst nightmare. I don't need this. I don't need this in my head. Yeah. That's really funny because the other day I went to my husband's car and opened the door and he has like an Audi and it lit up one seat. And I was like, that's weird. Like usually it leads up the whole cabin and he was like, oh, it's so cool. It's an Audi. And I'm like, no, I want to know if there's a murderer in my backseat. When I wonder too, we were not alive in the 70s when this was created. In the same problem with Black Christmas. Yes, but I wonder, um you know, like nowadays I feel like there is a lot of awareness surrounding serious crimes, stalking, you know, things like this, where they can happen, where they often happen.
00:43:13
Speaker
I wonder how much in the consciousness that was. like Were people really aware that like, hey, we talked about with Black Christmas how they didn't lock any of their windows or doors. yeah Literally what? um Was this in their consciousness that like, hey, yeah, someone could literally just be following you because they are not all there and like kill you on the street. like Were they thinking that or were they just like, hey, you're funny, you know? Well, and that's a good point as far as just like what the sensibilities were at that time, because it also was maybe not as talked about that like stalking was not okay. You know,
Portrayal of Stalking and Romantic Interests
00:43:54
Speaker
like were like coming, you know, on to women, like doing things that they don't want you to do. Yeah, was not
00:44:02
Speaker
that's it yeah it's more acceptable Yeah, that was definitely not part of the conversation. fact then Yeah. So like, and that could be part of it too. if Like, you know, like there is that moment where Laurie, I think it's when Laurie sees him behind a bush huh and then, yes. And then he's gone and Annie goes and she like pretends. Yep. it that But there's, there is a point where Annie's like, you,
00:44:29
Speaker
like kind of like acting like she scared him off. Yeah. It's like, this is like a lead, you know, like, oh, finally she could get a man. Yeah. Well, and they do. it's like yeah This is like this is yeah not a good dynamic. Yeah. Well, that comes up a couple more times. Like afterwards they're talking. I can't remember if it was on. I think it was on the phone.
00:44:49
Speaker
And it might be that moment that I'm thinking of where it's like the neighbor and it's like, yo, you can't even get the neighbor. Yeah. but But then she mentions like someone who she does have a crush on and then Annie like immediately jumps at it and is like, oh, he actually does want to go to the prom with you or whatever they're doing, you know? Yeah. And she's like, calm down, like cool it. Why are you so? Yeah, that's like a running thing. Right. Because she ends up asking him, I think like she. Yeah, Annie. i got him up Yeah. And and Laurie's like very uncomfortable. Yeah. With it.
00:45:19
Speaker
Yeah, so i I wonder if, like you said, they're not even willing to kind of make the distinction between ah acceptable interest and creepy interest. There's definitely a difference. Yeah. Michael Myers definitely falls into the creepy if we haven't gotten that so far. Pretty creepy guy? Very creepy guy. And maybe he wouldn't be so creepy if he didn't wear that creepy mask. Well, you know, apart from all the killing. But this mask on.
00:45:48
Speaker
um take the mask off no more murder yeah so okay so we jump been jumping around a bit but let's go back to the murders so we see annie Uh, she's our first kill, but well, first, present day kill. Um, and then part of what is going on is that, as far as like on this evening, um, the other friend, Linda and her guy, Bob, are coming over. Linda and Bob, just classic teenagers. Yeah. Um, uh, they come over to that girl, like the little girl's house where Annie has been babysitting and, um,
00:46:32
Speaker
because they were all going to hang out. And at one point, Laura and Linda talk on the phone. And Laura, again, being the good little person she is, just wants to know when this little girl needs to go to bed.
00:46:49
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. um And Annie hasn't gotten back yet because she is dead. Right. But Linda's very excited because the little girl's not coming home. So they can just like house yeah yeah have a little sexy night together in this in this house. I know. This stranger's house. Yeah. Imagine being those people.
00:47:12
Speaker
Oh my god. Their house becomes a literal house of horrors. No, no. Oh my god, literal house of horrors. Literal, which again, all over the place. But Michael Myers is a really interesting character because in some ways he's just like, you know, there's nothing going on. Like there's no emotions. There's no, like he's just killing machine and he's just waiting and watching. And then he like sets up this whole,
00:47:41
Speaker
It's very theatrical environment. And then when he kills Linda, I was like, what? To stop, yeah, the ghost sheet. I was like, who are you, Michael Myers? I don't know you at all. What is currently happening? That was like the, it was a fascinating choice. It was, it was. It just didn't fit. No, it was so comical. Yeah. And I don't know if it was supposed to hit as comical, but it totally did.
00:48:11
Speaker
I mean, it was just odd for that guy. The fact that he found a bed sheet, found some scissors, and cut himself two eye holes in the bed sheet. Did he have glasses on? Oh, did he have glasses? Okay, wait. I'm gonna look up bed sheet ghosts, because I was also like, did they invent this? That's interesting, I want to know that. Because could you could you imagine?
00:48:37
Speaker
And with old stuff, I'm always like, did they make this up? Is this the first time? All right. Any interesting findings? Um, yes. Okay. So very classic.
00:48:53
Speaker
I think it's been around since the beginning of time, since there were bedsheets. Since there were bedsheets, there have been bedsheets. TV Trope says, like many images common to modern culture, the bedsheet goes began as a theatrical convention that has long since lost its context.
00:49:13
Speaker
oh In Shakespeare's day, it was common to portray ghosts in armor on stage. That's interesting. um um Okay, so it looks like it's in the 1800s, it and went from armor to ghosts. I mean, it says sheets. I guess way easier to budget sheets than armor. Yeah. And it said that people laughed at armored ghosts.
00:49:41
Speaker
because they were loud. Oh, that's kind of funny, actually. Yeah. um So that's interesting. But i I did look up like there is a Reddit thread um for horror movie villains dressed as sheet ghosts. And it did seem like Halloween was the earliest. Interesting. And I did confirm he has cut eye holes and he is wearing Bob's glasses.
00:50:09
Speaker
and he's wearing Bob's glasses. Just knowing what we know about Michael Myers, I was like, really? Quite the choice. I guess the question becomes, what is he trying to get out of this yeah murder?
00:50:32
Speaker
Yeah, because I think up to now, I mean, she's only the third victim, so I guess fourth overall, including his sister. But up to now, like he has not, you know, we talked about
Theatrical Presentation of Victims
00:50:43
Speaker
in ah Scary Sherry and Black Christmas, the idea of like the murderer like playing with their food and has like really making them scared.
00:50:53
Speaker
which this, like Michael Myers doesn't really seem to do, I mean, with the exception of Jamie Lee Curtis, he lets himself be seen by her correct and he does instill like some terror in her, but everybody else, he just kind of kills them. Like he watches them, but they don't know and he just kills them. right And he seems very like detached. and So it's just interesting that then he come he puts on like a character. Right, yeah.
00:51:21
Speaker
and he And it doesn't even really scare her. She thinks it's Bob. He puts on Bob's glasses. So he's pretending to be Bob. Because he doesn't wear glasses. yeah So he's pretending to be Bob. And she's like, OK, like, ha whatever. And I'm like, she should probably.
00:51:40
Speaker
be more scared. Like he is not, he's still the detached Michael Myers, except he's got a sheet and a glass in it. So he's still like giving her nothing. Nothing, no nothing. What a, yeah, really what a choice. And even like the the setting up of the bedroom afterwards? Yes, that that is like the main ... I'm like, where did that come from? Where did that urge come from? from Yeah, and and what was he trying to say with all of this? because yeah Yeah, because he was supposed to be a ... It takes some doings.
00:52:14
Speaker
Yeah. OK, so let's go through what he does. He sets up Annie on the bed. That's the victim number one underneath the grave of his sister. Which he stole. Which he stole from the cemetery. Yes. And we do get that context. We do. Yeah, we just see them find that. And then because Loomis goes to her grave and like the cemetery guy walks them out there. And they're they're like, oh, he's like, those damn kids stealing graves at Halloween. And he's like, well, whose is it? It's her. And Loomis is like,
00:52:48
Speaker
So Annie is sprawled out on the bed with the headstone at her head. And then Bob is in the closet. Yes. And then where's Linda? She's in like a little cabinet. Okay. Bob is like in the closet, but he swings down. He was like, Oh, right. Okay. Swings down like from.
00:53:15
Speaker
from inside the closet and it's like hanging upside down, arms waving. And of course, Lori's like, ah! And then the door opens, not sure. If you rigged it like that. Yeah, backs up onto a wall, a la Psych Style. And then the cabinet door opens and there's Linda, like all cramped inside this little cabinet. Yeah. So Michael Myers, like, set up a a production. But why? Why? Why are Michael Myers? Well, and it but it does. I feel like, I mean, well, maybe we don't know him as well, as we think we do, because now that I'm thinking about it, that is all for Jamie Lee Curtis' benefit, I guess.
00:54:09
Speaker
I guess, unless it's for whoever comes home. But if he's thinking, so right maybe if Jamie Lee Curtis is the victim, like maybe she is in his mind, the victim, and everything else that happens, he is doing it to her.
00:54:24
Speaker
Oh, God. Okay. Which actually, I don't know a lot about it, but that would track with the rest of the franchise, I think, because he never leaves her alone. That's true. That's very true. Just use it in the last movie. Yeah, that's true. And apparently there are a lot of different possible reasons as to why that is in the franchise as well. God, we are going to have to watch all of these, aren't we? I know. Yeah, probably. Yeah, so it could all be Yeah, correct. For the viewing, quote unquote, pleasure of Jamie Lee Curtis coming and actually seeing these bodies. But like what ah what what does what does the his sister have to do with it? like why Why? Yeah. That does mess with our whole theory of like- I mean, and it still could be. It could be like a
00:55:17
Speaker
ah Oh, it's me. I'm like staking claim to this. Like, you you know what I mean? Like, it's it's me, Michael Myers. I'm staking claim to Judith, Annie, who Bob and the last one, Linda.
00:55:34
Speaker
who With the headstone that of course also says his last name, Judith Myers. Could be how i how I read it the first time looking at it is that Annie was supposed to be symbolic of Judith.
00:55:47
Speaker
right But then I have no idea what Bob or Linda has to do with it. Yeah. I mean, I guess for us as a viewer, Annie is more like the sister than Lori is, Jamie Lee Curtis. But maybe for Michael Myers, it's still like he saw this girl and this little boy and like he saw him and his sister in net. Maybe he's still punishing his sister.
00:56:17
Speaker
Like he took her grave and he presented it. Like almost, I mean, he if he's setting it all up for Jamie Lee Curtis's benefit, then like it is kind of like a threat. I mean, well, in many ways, but like the fact that it's her grave, like if he's like, like, you know,
00:56:40
Speaker
If in his mind, Jamie Lee Curtis basically is Judith, he's like, this is your grave. like yeah And for her to come find all this, it's like, if you know in his mind that is her grave, because she is his sister, then like she is coming to her death, which is his, then he tries to kill her. Right. This is twisted. It is twisted.
00:57:07
Speaker
And then where, where is he again in all of this? Because he's, isn't he like hiding somewhere? Yeah. Cause he pops out. Yeah. He's like after her. Yeah. Just waiting for her to. Oh yeah. So it totally has to be all orchestrated for her own benefit, quote unquote benefit, because he's lurking waiting for her to see all of this. Yeah. Well, I'm like, is he waiting for anybody to see it or just her? Cause like, how does he even know? I mean, I mean, I think he is waiting for her, but it's like just interesting that.
00:57:37
Speaker
I mean, maybe he thinks he she will come because it's her friend. Like she knows yeah knows that she knows that they're there. Right. So she will come. Right. And honestly, he was not trying to be stealthy about the fact that he was killing them. No. Literally carrying Andy's body down the open. Yeah, which was fine interesting too. Like the the point of view we get from that, I have not watched this movie, but I'm like, again, aware in popular culture, but it's kind of rear window.
00:58:13
Speaker
because we get just like this glimpse of like a vignette of like that is what's happening but the little boy just sees it through the window. Right. um Which, you know, maybe means nothing but another Alfred Hitchcock. Yeah, it would make sense as a callback. yeah Like his his legacy there. Yeah. yeah that's um Yeah, I guess it's all for her. Because who else, other than the parents of the child, who else would be coming?
00:58:38
Speaker
The only other thing would be like the doctor or like the police or like just like, it's true whoever, but I mean, he probably doesn't even. Right. no Not even on his radar. He doesn't even care about them. He's got a one track mind. That's true. Absolutely. Okay. So now I'm just trying to understand. Like him as a person, if he even is a person, we're not sure. He could be,
Motivations Behind Michael Myers' Killings
00:59:03
Speaker
you know, the embodiment of evil as they continue to say. Um,
00:59:06
Speaker
um So once he's presented this to Laurie, why? like it's It's an interesting thing to be like, I have done all of this work for you. I've killed all these people. I've presented them to you. And now I'm going to kill you. That feels odd. Well, I don't think it's like.
00:59:31
Speaker
tentacle yeah right I don't think it's like for her as like a gift, like an offering. I think it's like a threat. Like i if if it all comes back to this like resentment that he has for his sister and he sees her as that, it's like, it's almost like he has the opportunity to kill her again. Oh, he's just constantly reliving killing his sister other than Bob. nor Which is that, I mean, you from your psych experience, is that like makes sense for like a traumatic experience, like to keep going back to it, recreating it? Sure. Yeah. I mean, especially for serial killers, I mean, that could be part of it, right? That's why sometimes serial killers have like a ah perfect victim, right? Oh yeah. The person who looks a very particular way from a particular area, does a particular thing, right? Because it was reminiscent.
01:00:22
Speaker
of maybe someone in their life or maybe their first victim or or whoever it might be, or fulfill some form of fantasy for them or something. right so that Yeah, that totally tracks, that totally makes sense. And now he's like, he's older. He's more powerful. He's like, yeah knows more. So it's like, he can torture her even more. Yeah. Like, cause as a child, he, he's, I mean, he watched, but he didn't get to kill her boyfriend. He didn't get to kill her friends. Yeah. Oh yeah. now That's a good point. Because we did say like, like if we were,
01:00:58
Speaker
If we are thinking of the idea of like playing with the food, it's like the only person he was really tormenting is her for the whole movie. So it kind of would make sense that like all these other kills are just about her. Right. Although I do think, is there one other victim? There is. There is a part. The car. The car driver or truck driver. And it also wasn't sure. Did he kill the woman in the car? Because when, when we get or Oh yeah.
01:01:28
Speaker
I don't think so. Because she gets out, but when they're driving to the hospital, Loomis and this nurse, I think, we get a shot of her matches that she's lighting a cigarette with or something. Yes. You really see them. Yes. You really focus on them. And then later, Loomis comes and I don't... It's like a tractor or something, isn't it? He's in a field. Yeah, something.
01:01:55
Speaker
I don't know. um Maybe it's just is like to show that like to say that Mike Myers was there because those matches are on the ground and there's a body there. Right. Yeah, because I think she left them in the car. I think she threw them on the dash. They just were in the car, and that's how he knows this is his work. Right. That's what I think, at least. Okay. Yeah. Who was that guy? Just a guy driving a car. Just a guy. Yeah. I think he literally, because he was at a payphone, so maybe it was the next guy wanting to use the payphone, killed him to take his car.
01:02:28
Speaker
And then, no, but he's in the hospital car the whole time. Cause that's part of for his clothes. That's what it was. oh Oh, and that's why he's in. Yes. The jumpsuit. Okay. 100% is totally the callback in Tuesday, the 17th. Yeah. I saw that. I was like, yep, that's what that is. Yeah. It is kind of fun, I guess but to like, see a yeah an iconic killer.
01:02:57
Speaker
form. He's sold masks, he's sold clothes, he's got his knife. god that's like like It's like we're seeing a Halloween costume come together, and i literally, I guess, yeah in more ways than one. yeah exactly
01:03:13
Speaker
ah Okay, so then the final battle begins, right? She is like so taken aback by all of her friends dying. She goes out into the hallway and he's in like a closet or something, kind of comes out of nowhere.
01:03:29
Speaker
And she ends up falling over the railing onto the first floor because they were upstairs. Yeah. And it seemed, yeah, I know. When it seems like she really hurt herself because she's like limping and ro like broke something. Broke something, definitely. Yeah. But she's like on adrenaline. Oh yeah. Which she's got to be. Yeah, I was going to say. Get out of there, Jamie Lee Grant. Absolutely. So she's like,
01:03:52
Speaker
running through the house and he's not necessarily doing anything quickly. Again, kind of that like- Yeah, he doesn't really do anything. but no Yeah, he he very methodically walks down the stairs and he's not running by any means. He does not seem concerned about her getting away. Yeah, that's a great point. He's like a loop. It's like he knows this whole time, it's like he's already, well, he has, if she is his sister, he has already killed her. Yeah, so he will kill her. This is just fine. Yeah, this is just play for him. Like, yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah, her death is inevitable. Yeah. and So she like runs into the back of the house into the kitchen, which we've seen a couple times.
01:04:38
Speaker
She like runs out the back door and then runs ah across the yard to the house where she has left the kids to check on her friends. And as she's running again, we like see my parents.
01:04:53
Speaker
Because one thing I wrote down, I was like, don't bring him back to the kids. I know. I know. But I will say, as I revisit that thought in my mind, she doesn't at first. She goes to somebody else. Oh, you're right. And she's like, help me. Help me, please. She's like screaming. But it's Halloween. And these people are like, they just turn the lights on, they see her, and they turn them back on. They're like, we don't want any part of this. Right. And then she goes.
01:05:19
Speaker
Because it's like that you're right you can it's kind of a haven in a way. Right. She can get inside. She can get inside, although it's locked. And she's like, Tommy, come. Yeah. My name is Tommy. I'm remembering now. Tommy come open the door. And he's like, what? and And so he does. So yeah, now that I think about that, I do. I mean, she is a really good babysitter. Yeah, she was doing her darnedest. Yeah. ah Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, and I think the only place she can go Right. Or yeah, it is the better option of the two. Yeah. And then when- Staying outside and getting killed or going inside. Yeah. And then at that point is it when O'Kessie lets her in and she's like, go lock herself away. Because then she's like, get out of here. And that's just heart wrenching, you know? I mean, that is a difficult position. It's like, yeah.
01:06:13
Speaker
with these children and like she really does try her best to protect them. And you can tell she cares about them. She cares about them. She even cares about these kids. When she quote unquote kills him because he will rise but when she stabs him with the knitting needle and goes up to get to the kids and the kids come out and she's like babies. I know. I'm like she greets them as babies. So she really does care about them.
01:06:39
Speaker
Absolutely, absolutely. Which makes the whole thing even more gut-wrenching. Really hard to stomach. Yes, when he then comes up the stairs oh god and she like tells them to go into the room and and lock the door. and He seems completely uninterested in the children, which is good yeah for the sake of the situation. For the sake of me as a viewer worrying about those children. Yes, precisely.
01:07:06
Speaker
um but she I thought it was really interesting actually, not a laughing matter, but I thought it was really interesting that she like walks into the room, opens the window.
01:07:17
Speaker
And yeah then goes into the closet as if to be like, she could have escaped through the window. Yeah. I think she's trying. I mean, she's just like trying to throw him off, I guess. But it is interesting because then he like starts hacking at the closet that she's hidden. Well, actually he's not hacking at it. I'm like, why aren't you hacking at it? He's just like shaking it. He's just like trying to get in. Scary, scary, scary. Like it's literally just one of those like foldable. Yeah.
01:07:43
Speaker
doors, door not super structurally. No, my gosh. Well, I mean, I guess everything was made better in the 70s than it is today. That's true. Yeah, that's fair. Maybe it was hard to get in there. It's real wood. Yeah, exactly. He doesn't even seem to like entertain the window idea. Yeah, he does. He's like, I see right through you, Lori and But as he's doing that, she's like, I'm like, shut up.
01:08:12
Speaker
ah good height not very good like
01:08:17
Speaker
No, not at all. She didn't even try and to be quiet. And then he finally, I don't know why it takes him so long, but he finally starts going at the door with the knife. Yes. She grabs a hanger, and I missed. What is she like? Does she use the hanger to like, wrestle the knife from him with the hanger? Or like, what does she do with that? Oh, I don't. Because at one point, she gets the knife, but I'm like, how did she? What did she achieve? I think she was, in my mind, she was like, stabbing at him with the hanger and like, maybe hit him in the eye or something, and then he dropped it, dropped the knife.
01:08:56
Speaker
and then Yes, it just seems like it would be hard to do much damage with a hanger. Also with a plastic mask on your face. That's really yeah true. Very precise to go through the eye holes. Okay, holding the hanger, I'm looking at the script. Not even the transcript. This is the real script. Oh my gosh. Holding the hanger with both hands, she thrusts it forward with all her might.
01:09:18
Speaker
The hanger flashes into the shapes. The shape is Michael Myers. They're referring to him as the shape. The shape's the right eye. So I guess you're right. He leaves back in pain, dropping the butcher knife, grabbing his eye with both hands. Oh, and that's when she grabs it. And then she grabs the knife, chaps it upward. The butcher knife plunges into the shape's midsection. That's funny that they refer him as the shape. Right down to the hilt. The shape's down the stack from out of the closet.
01:09:46
Speaker
She just sits there in the corner of the closet. There is a thump from the bedroom then silence." Again, he's dead. Yeah. Like super, super dead. Yeah. Yeah. Has to be dead. She comes out. Yep. She comes out. He seems like he's a goner. And then the trope that I feel like we see all the time now, which I did not know it came from this. the We get the Michael Myers sit up just like the best crunch in the entire world. Yeah.
01:10:24
Speaker
And you're like, he's not dead. Yeah. Cause, and you, you kind of know it's coming. Cause like, so the kid, like she kept, gets the kids to come out and she like, it's kind of blocking them from seeing him. And, and you get this like shot where you can really see over her shoulder and it's like, it's almost like something's going to be going to that space. And then he sits up and you're like, and yeah.
01:10:50
Speaker
but here He seemed like after this stat, the second stabbing now, I guess, or third stabbing, I guess really stab with the knitting needle, stabbed with a coat hanger and now stabbed with a knife. Oh my gosh. He definitely seemed like he was injured. Like he was moving far slower than he was before. Like Lori didn't even know that he was behind her and she moves out of his like arm space. Yeah. First time.
01:11:15
Speaker
So he's not impenetrable. Yeah. she and maybe you're Maybe you're right. Maybe he doesn't feel pain or something. like is He just finds it difficult. Yeah. I don't know. He's a mystery, that one. Yeah.
01:11:29
Speaker
but Okay, looking at the script, we so first, before he rises again from the dead after the butcher, um she sends the kids to get help, which I forgot. how do i And they're like, you come with us. And she's like, no, do as I say. she I mean, Jamie Lee Curtis,
01:11:51
Speaker
I know. She's great. She's so good. And wasn't this her breakout role? Yes. She was so good. She must have been a baby. She was a little baby. Yeah, I think I looked it up when I was watching it. I think she was like 20 when it came out. So she must have been like 19, making this movie. She did a great job. Yeah, she's great. And like super, I mean, you just you care about her. She's charming. Yeah. And she cares about those kids, damn it.
01:12:19
Speaker
But they they run out of the house shrieking, and Loomis is out there in the street. Because they are also only a few doors down from the Myers house, which is how this whole thing gets started. It's her and the kids, she which we skipped over that. But to finish this storyline and start off with the next storyline. There's a lot going on. Yeah, the beginning of the movie when we first meet Jamie Lee Curtis, is it her dad?
01:12:47
Speaker
Her dad's like a real estate agent. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, her dad's like a realtor and gives her keys to drop off at the Meyers house because he's like preparing to show it or something like that. Yeah. So, and then the kid who she babysits kind of catches up with her and they are walking down the street together and he's like, you can't go up there. It's haunted. And she's like, yeah, I can't. And he like, you know, she's like cute with him and stuff. And so she um takes the keys out there and that's when Michael Meyers sees them together. And that's when he like imprints on her.
01:13:14
Speaker
right yeah that is kind of a good way to put it huh um <unk>s like so it's all very cool like it's all like one street that we're on yes yeah most of the movie yeah which i is kind of interesting in terms of like setting because it it really feels like it's just small town like there's like this very urban legend feeling to it yes and the way like the fact that there's this house that sat empty since this horrible thing happened like yeah yeah when When we talk about, you know, one of the big things that we discussed last time with Black Christmas was the budget of the movie when horror was not as big of a genre as it it currently is and then the effects were not as up to date with maybe what people wanted to be able to do.
Budget and its Impact on Horror Portrayal
01:14:02
Speaker
creating a show where or a show creating a movie where we really don't see a lot of blood we don't actually see any of the stabbing that takes place except for maybe like one um and it all takes place on one street like that's really effective for the bottom line yeah that's a good point because like again not knowing these movies very well like i would have expected this like i was like you know, when somebody gonna die, like I was expecting yeah it to be something different. And I wonder if like the more contemporary ones are more like what I would think, like just the more, like when I think slasher, I'm thinking like a crazy body count, like nonstop blood, blah, blah, blah. But that's so far that has not been our experience. so um But since you mentioned budget, I'm playing so Wikipedia, because I was like, whoa. So the budget was between
01:14:54
Speaker
$300,000 and $325,000. Oh, wow. It's like nothing, right? It could probably still be small, even in the 70s. And the box office was $70 million. dollars That I would call a return on investment. So talk about a smash hit. Yeah, absolutely. What was, um since we just mentioned it, what was Black Christmas? Let's see.
01:15:25
Speaker
And Black Christmas is $74. I think I might have said $76 before. OK, its budget was $686. So earlier and more, almost twice, or twice as much. Wow. And it only made $1.3 million in Canada and $4 million worldwide. Wow. So a much smaller movie. I mean, still a hit, I would say, in terms of, yeah. But yeah, bigger budget.
01:15:51
Speaker
Yes. Well, so I probably, I mean, which makes sense more of a cult. Yes. film Then Halloween, which spawned twelve more movies. Yeah.
Loomis's Role and Institutional Failure Themes
01:16:00
Speaker
Yeah. So then Loomis comes in. All right. So OK, so the kids come running out screaming and Loomis is around because he's been watching the house waiting for Michael Myers to come back. Right. Everyone like totally does not believe that Michael Myers is in the town and yeah or that it is. No, even if he is, they're like,
01:16:19
Speaker
So like you. And Loomis is like, this guy's crazy. Like he's going. share like So are you telling me that these kids at trick or treating are lining up for slaughter? And Loomis is like, maybe. could be Like Loomis is scared shitless. This is also after they found what sounded like a dead eaten dog inside of the Myers house as if Michael Myers killed and ate this dog. Oh, was it? Oh, was that? Yeah, I missed that. I really. Oh, I wonder.
01:16:48
Speaker
I guess this probably happened later, but he kills the dog, the family dog of the girl Annie's babysitting. think i But yes, a dog gets eaten. Oh God. I know. I was like, it's off screen, the killing of that dog. And I'm like, I'm just going to tell myself that he subdued it and it's fine. Um, cause I know don't I can't, I can't say no with dog murder. I know.
01:17:15
Speaker
So dog murder, dog eating ship, which no good, please don't do that. And then he's like, can't you now see that this guy is like a little off his hinges, you know? And the sheriff's like, you know, if you want to stay at the house all night, stay at the house all night, who's going to care? It is not until Loomis is like walking down the street after hours of standing at this house, that he sees the stolen car. Right. That he then realizes he's in the area, he's a foot, and he starts walking around essentially like listening for and looking for possibilities of where Michael Myers is. Yeah. it's kind of he's like He knows that he'll know it when he sees it. Exactly. When these kids come screaming my god out of the front door, he's like, There he is. I found it. And he runs in there. Guns a blazing. Literally. Yeah. Yeah. He's got he has a ah weapon, which he pulled earlier when they were in the house and the sheriff and he was kind of like, oh, you probably think I'm crazy or something or a bad doctor. I think he said something like that. Yeah. And um and the sheriff's like, you seem scared.
01:18:29
Speaker
He's like, yeah, he is really scared. Which I feel like we talked to a lot of in Black Christmas about, and a bit in gravy, the idea of like the institutions that are set up supposedly to help not being very effective. yes
Law Enforcement Skepticism and Impact
01:18:46
Speaker
And I feel like that continues to be a bit of a theme here, yeah ah just in that like I mean, actually, I don't know, like the sheriff is trying. He's humoring him to an extent, but it's kind of like they can't act until something happens or they find something. and And so it's almost kind of like Atlassian jewels, you know, where it's like.
01:19:08
Speaker
in the way where Sean and Gus can investigate something before like just because they feel like something is happening or they think it is but Jules and Lassie are like bound by the institution that they're a part of and so they can't really or it's like they don't have time or whatever right and and then we see that here where they're like they're not they don't I mean they investigate the the break in a little bit but they're like ah probably kids like they don't really take anything right seriously it feels yet it feels to me like there are these constant like near misses in the movie like we even get that scene where lumis is walking to the store where there's the break-in
01:19:51
Speaker
The cops are standing right there and their backs are turned and Michael Myers literally drives by in the car with his mask on his face, right behind him. Yeah. The car with the seal of the hospital or whatever that brought it. Right. So it it almost feels like the, yeah, the system simply can't even see what is happening in front of its eyes. Like the system is not set up.
01:20:15
Speaker
maybe to actually help these people. Not that it's intentionally not. Right. Well, and that's interesting too, because like what the the way that it was going to help was that it was going to confine this person. Right. And it failed at that. Mm hmm. And so it's like now it's like, OK, so what now? And yes, this small town sheriff is like, OK, like whatever. And I think and in and like with the urban legend thing and the fact that they had this murder in the past and it all it does all feel kind of like, you know, like in Scary Sherry, how like Shawn Gus like made it up. Yes. So it's like maybe it all does seem a little far fetched.
01:20:57
Speaker
Yeah it makes me wonder though like the the sheriff and the sheriff doesn't seem like very young. Seems like probably around the same age as Michael Myers and or older. So he would have theoretically be been living in the town and or possibly even on the force.
01:21:15
Speaker
when That's true. yeah well Michael Myers is only 21, I believe, because he was six when he murdered his sister and it's been 15 years. There you go. So this guy was definitely alive yeah when this happened. That's true. no the And I guess urban legends do just kind of take on an embodiment of their own, but I would hope that he would still realize there is a bit of truth in the fact that this man is dangerous. Yeah.
01:21:42
Speaker
and would take it seriously. I mean, he has turned into this myth of the boogeyman, but regardless, he did still kill his sister. So, yeah. I don't know where I was going with that, but that was- Yeah, no, i I mean, yeah, because it's like, I guess it's like what, I feel like there is a point where he says what the force is doing or whatever, like- Well, and they're definitely doing something. They go to the house with him. Yeah.
01:22:11
Speaker
They're aware of the cemetery robbery. They're checking out the robbery at the store. Like something's definitely happening. I mean, it's probably hard to believe. you know the The amount of terror that Loomis is exuding is probably like, OK. I mean, not to minimize what what did happen and that he did kill his sister, but but one victim versus like what Loomis is presenting that he's going to like slaughter the whole town. It might be hard to like buy into that, I guess. Yeah, well, that's fair.
01:22:46
Speaker
Yeah, and as we were talking about the Sheriff, the Sheriff, his daughter is murdered. We don't really, we don't see the repercussions of anything. Oh my God, I forgot that they didn't remove it. Yeah, because basically as soon as the final battle happens, the movie is over. Like, we don't see any, like, yeah, Halloween night and then that's it. But yeah, because Annie is his daughter. Right.
01:23:13
Speaker
Oh, man. Maybe that comes up in the next one. Maybe. um but But yeah, because that i mean the echoes of this, what happened on this Halloween night is going to be probably pretty intense for this town. Yeah.
01:23:30
Speaker
Do we think that he, okay, now we're getting kind of outside of the scope of the movie, but I just kind of want to know. Do we think he
Significance of Halloween in Michael Myers' Crimes
01:23:36
Speaker
orchestrated the breakout so that he could be out in the world on Halloween and kill again? Or do we think that it just happened to be another Halloween? That's a good question.
01:23:47
Speaker
Because I wondered that too. Like, yeah, just like it being Halloween. And then... Yeah. I think it's very convenient. And that is when his first murder happened. I mean, maybe, yeah, does he try to break out every Halloween? Oh. um And he just happened to be successful. I would be like extra mad at the the facility then. Like, you knew he was going to try and do something. Yeah. And we didn't have anything else in place.
01:24:12
Speaker
Like guys, come on. Wow. Okay. I'm just like, I was looking through the script to come across like, or to see if they said anything about it being Halloween or anything like that. yeah But what I did land on is Lori in the classroom, what the teacher is talking about, she says,
01:24:32
Speaker
You see, fate caught up with several lives here. No matter what course of action Rollins took, he was destined to his own fate, his own day of reckoning with himself. The idea is that destiny is a very real concrete thing that every person has to deal with. Hmm. Which I feel like. I was thinking when we were talking about like Laurie and and Michael Myers and like the the whole franchise, like there is this sense that they are like locked in this cosmic battle. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And he will keep trying to kill her, but he cannot and she will keep trying to kill him, but she cannot. Right. So it's interesting that like from the jump, they're like, this is fated. Yeah. Well, if if that begs the question in my mind, if he is the embodiment of pure evil, is she theoretically the embodiment of pure good? If he cannot be killed, neither can she.
01:25:27
Speaker
Wow.
Laurie vs. Michael: Cosmic Battle of Good and Evil
01:25:29
Speaker
You know, that makes, I mean, yeah, I could totally see her being that because just, I mean, the way they talk about her, like the girl scout and everything, like she does have this like very sort of obvious goodness about her. And, and she does seem to make like these very like morally good choices. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's just like, she does seem sort of angelic in that way. And so it's interesting. It kind of,
01:25:57
Speaker
to bring Star Wars into it. Why not? It reminds me of in Star Wars how like the prophecy or whatever is that a child will be born to bring balance to the force. And they're like, oh, that's going to like, how they interpret that is that that's going to get rid of the darkness. But really what it does is bring the darkness because balance has them both. And so it's like, if they can they must go on because if they are these like, what?
01:26:28
Speaker
when When anyone brings up balance and darkness and light, what do I think of? Yin Yang. And now we're back to psych. That's the case, exactly. If that's the case, does that mean Yin and Yang are the embodiment of pure evil and Sean is the embodiment of pure good? Ooh. Aww.
01:26:50
Speaker
well I do think we talk a lot about like um how complex of a character Sean is. And so I do feel like there's a lot of nuance in Psych that maybe we're not getting here, but very true the medium is completely different. you know like When you have a movie, it's easier to be like, okay, we're, you know, like to have these more pure archetypes. But yeah, when we you spend eight seasons with a character, that would just be boring.
01:27:16
Speaker
um
Innovative Use of POV in 'Halloween'
01:27:17
Speaker
But there is a goodness to them. But I feel like yin yang is so interesting in psych because yeah they are also the way Mary lightly talks about them. it's like Sometimes I and mix them up, but Yang is all order. Yin is chaos. Yeah. And, and Yang is a very complex character too. Like she, you really come to sympathize with her. Yeah. Well, she, I feel like she, and I don't know which one is which, but of course the whole,
01:27:55
Speaker
point of the the yin-yang symbol is that even in goodness there's a little bit of darkness and even in darkness there's a little bit of thinness. So Yang always felt to me like she was probably goodness that, don't want to spoil it, but was influenced by someone to have more of that darkness come out. Oh, that makes a lot of sense, yeah.
01:28:19
Speaker
you know Yeah, and I feel like but the amount of time we get to spend with Yin and Yang in that show, I mean, they are kind of the big bad, even like in the movies, yeah it's yeah Yin's like... Apprentice, I guess. Yeah, apprentice, who is like...
01:28:41
Speaker
one of the major bad guys in one of the movies. So it's like of the show, they are the biggest for sure. And so like we really get to get into that nuance with them. Whereas in a movie like this, it's just more finite. So I do feel like They don't get into that as much, but I wonder if like in the later movies, they do explore that. Like what, if there is more complexity there, we're going to have to watch them all and find out. I think we just keep telling ourselves we have to watch all of these movies. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if they go there. It would be, it would be hard, I feel like to maybe just because of like the the genre, and like it being pure slasher to like develop sympathy.
01:29:26
Speaker
for that character. Well, yes. I also, yes. Yeah, I think in, especially for a character that is doing such evil in order to develop sympathy for them, I feel like we need a bit of that meandering that we love to talk about um and just a view into their life and like who they are as a person. Like I think of the show Dexter, if you've never seen it before, I highly really recommend.
01:29:55
Speaker
Amazing, right? The main character is a serial killer. He literally goes out and kills like hundreds of people, but you end up rooting for him by the end of this because of his whole backstory and understanding how he became a serial killer and why he does it, his motivations, his family, you know what I mean? Here, I could see that being really, like you said, difficult to achieve because even though he is one of our storylines here, we have spent one day yeah with all of them. too With him too. yes Two days.
01:30:31
Speaker
Really like a day in five minutes and not even a full day with him. Moments, if you will. Well, it is interesting because I feel like even in this conversation, we have given him a lot of credence, like, yeah, in terms of like thinking about his motivations and stuff. So that is there and that is possible to do. um But I guess, yeah, I feel like even though Yin Yang, like that concept,
01:31:04
Speaker
lends to that like a very like a nuanced take on the world like I feel like this kind of movie exists in a more absolute yeah version of the world so I yeah I wonder if they would get any more into that or if it's always like yeah like she's like a a more pure good yeah and he's just bad bad he's evil yeah That said, you do like, even if you don't like sympathize with him, um something I saw in the Wikipedia was like some of the reviews of the time, or at least one, talked about how you like, I think with the POV and stuff, you identify with him. Like there is like this sense when he is committing the murder, like abuse, like you are doing it.
01:31:56
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. like it it was like It talked about like seeing the victim and then looking at the knife and like like how you are experiencing that, which is kind of interesting. like to That's a very uncomfortable place to be, is seeing yourself in that. Well, and especially if this is one of the first. one of the first POV movies, certainly probably the most successful of all of them. It might be the first time people are really experiencing that. moon And
The Abrupt Ending and The Shape's Identity
01:32:28
Speaker
as we know present day from like social media and stuff, it's kind of hard to dissociate yourself or disassociate maybe.
01:32:37
Speaker
Um, yourself from certain things that you experience. So if you experience this as if it's from your point of view through this lens of, you know, whatever, um, yeah, it would be much easier to empathize with the person who was experiencing this because you can imagine what it would be like to be that person.
01:32:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's really interesting how you said that because the idea of it being new to the viewers at this time. Yeah. Because it's kind of like if you went and watched a movie for the first time and saw the train and like how people like yeah exactly got scared because it's like, what? And so it would be like we are so accustomed to this trope right of a POV thing. But for the that makes sense because I was almost like when I saw that quote from the review, I was like, well,
01:33:23
Speaker
you know It's very familiar to me. So I'm like, okay. But he was like, this is diabolical, like that they would do this. But it was like, it was new. Right. Exactly. That's really interesting. Yeah. I kind of imagine like maybe how it would feel like if, if we were doing like a VR or something and you had to like, you know. Yeah.
01:33:44
Speaker
kill someone in a VR game. Yeah. Even like thinking about that makes me like, ugh. Yeah. But I bet that's probably kind of similar to how some people talk all the time. Yeah. and I wonder if they're like, probably like with video games and stuff, it would make me feel like that. And and you will do that in VR. One will do that in VR any day now, or they already you are, but like maybe in terrifying in the future, that would be like run of the mill the way this feels. Right. Right.
01:34:13
Speaker
Gosh, I hope not. Yeah. Is that pretty much it? lu Loomis comes in, shoots him. Yeah, Loomis comes in, shoots him, and he is shot off of the balcony and falls, which I think we talked about a bit. um And Loomis looks out the window, and he's laying there dead, presumably. He's really been through it. Yep. And then Loomis looks away. And then Loomis looks back, and he's gone.
01:34:41
Speaker
And they have a moment where Jamie Lee Curtis is like, it was the boogeyman and Loomis is like, yes, it was. Yes. And then we get all those shots of the yeah places and then we're done. Yeah, that's it. That was it. It's quite abrupt.
01:34:57
Speaker
It is. Yeah. It didn't feel like the, you know, nice bow tie ending that we get at the end of certain movies. um But I think similarly to Black Christmas, that's kind of the point. Yeah. That kind of the point, you know, he could, like we said before, he could be anywhere. He could be anyone. We don't know. Be scared.
01:35:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's very, very chilling. And I'm thinking again now about like that moment with his face. Oh, yeah. The way it, and it comes at the end, like, because it the mask comes off and it's like, maybe That's like you've been wanting to see it the whole time, you know, like you wanting to see who this person is, yeah who this human being is, who's doing this. And you did see the little boy in the beginning. um And now it's like so much more extreme and like, and you almost see it and he pulls it back on and you don't get to and then he's gone. And it's like, so it's like, yeah, you can't, you can't really be vigilant or anything because you don't know who it is.
01:35:59
Speaker
which it's Halloween. and It's a costume. Yes. It could again be anyone. Yeah. You know what else? I was just thinking, I wonder if, well, I don't actually know how payment works on.
01:36:14
Speaker
movie sets. But what the mask also allows is multiple people to play the character. So imagine if you can't get the same actor multiple days in a row. um That's true. Theoretically, just find someone with a similar build. Yeah. I do feel like, is there a famous person who plays Michael Myers? I actually think it's changed throughout the franchise. Maybe it's There's someone who people make, strangle them in pictures. That's terrifying. Maybe it's the director. Hold on. Maybe it's the like current Michael Ryan. I feel like it's an older person. Unless it's like a completely different horror movie guy.
01:37:06
Speaker
I actually think that would have been kind of fun just while you're researching. I actually think it would have been kind of fun to have multiple people play Michael Myers in one movie because then you would have never really gotten a sense of the person. They would have always been like a yeah you know a little bit different.
01:37:24
Speaker
hey michael myers actor. It's all just Mike Myers. Oh, the actual actor, Mike Myers. Oh, in the original Halloween, the adult Michael Myers referred to as the shape. There you go. It's on the script.
01:37:44
Speaker
in Oh, in the closing credits, he's the shape. That's so interesting. That is interesting when he is referred to as Michael Myers. Yeah. Yeah. He's never in the movie referred to as the shape. Well, so that begs the question, is he really Michael Myers? Oh, is he anything? Is he the shape that, I mean, yeah. Could he be someone else?
01:38:09
Speaker
Could he? Could be. And they've just identified him as Michael Myers? Yeah. And to add more complexity, he was portrayed by Nick Castle for most of the film and substituted by Toni Moran in the final scene where Michael's face is revealed. So it's two different actors. Amazing. Interesting. OK, well, I'm going to try to figure out who that is sometime other than now. You can insert it. I only know, like, Hannah Waddingham.
01:38:37
Speaker
um, who I love from Ted Lasso. Like she has a story about being at a convention and meeting some guy who played like a horror movie person, I think, who was signing, unless it was John Carpenter, maybe. Yeah, it could be. Which this is like, doesn't really matter at all. Well, now we're curious. I know. So I don't know, maybe it's a completely different movie and completely different character. I don't really what know what movie you're struggling with this subject.
01:39:02
Speaker
Yeah, cuz I guess he's not really known for strangling. He does strangle. He does strangle. At least once, so we've seen. Does he strangle? Oh, I guess he's two. Yeah, and strangled Linda, actually. Okay, so maybe he didn't know he was strangling. Yeah, I guess, yeah, he walks around with it, and it's a big knife. It is. It's a big knife.
01:39:24
Speaker
big like a chef's knife, whatever, a large knife. Yeah. It says butcher knife in the script, I think. Oh, there you go. One other thing
Day to Night Transition and Its Impact
01:39:33
Speaker
that I think is just like interesting, you know, cinematically or whatever yeah is, um, like we said, it's one day, basically it's Halloween. Yes. And we,
01:39:48
Speaker
spend some time in the daylight again just watching yes and then night falls and it's like it's very quick the like yeah the darkness falling it's very quick and then it's like then shit gets real and i thought that was interesting structurally yeah because suddenly like suddenly he is a shape, you know, like before it was like there is a man lurking. But then it's like you see shadows of him, you see reflections of him. Yeah. um And it's like it's a lot harder to know where he is. And I mean, it's I mean, it's obviously it's scarier. It's everything's dark outside. Yeah. Yeah. And so it just like it really heightens everything. Yeah.
01:40:38
Speaker
I like the the ah take though that, yeah, now he really does become this like amorphous blob. Yeah, because like and and in that outfit, he does blend right in with the darkness other than the creepy face. Yeah, the very, very contrasting face to this navy, gray navy jumpsuit. Yeah. There was one moment where we saw him in a reflection that was like really creepy.
01:41:05
Speaker
I do think though that that that plays really well, that contrast of this really white, creepy face to this dark hair and dark suit that all just blend into the shadow. And then when the light hits just right, you just all you see in the face. Oh God. Yeah. Wow. Almost like, you know, if you were to see like a face out the window, you know, like you, it's like, yeah.
01:41:35
Speaker
Yeah, I have a note that's like, night sure fell fast. And then a little bit later, everything's so dark. Because it is, it's like, yeah. It's such a stark contrast. I like yeah i mean, we have seen like we saw the the original Halloween night where he killed Judith, and then it's nighttime when he escapes. But then it's like day, day, day, and it's like it's creepy. But there is a comfort in the fact that they are walking around this town. There's other people out. it's like Because that was another thing I was like, is there nobody around? like it Are they making it creepy because there's nobody around? yeah then like
01:42:09
Speaker
then they show people coming out to Trick or Treat and like the neighbors take it out as trash or whatever. So it like it feels like alive in a way. you know
Cinematic Techniques and Influence on Pop Culture
01:42:19
Speaker
there's just It is a small town and that it people are around and then suddenly it's nighttime and like
01:42:27
Speaker
nobody's around. And it's really, really scary. Well, and that's also, that's also so interesting because for Halloween night, there'd be no one around. That's a great point. Like really? and And maybe could that be because Michael Myers' house is right down the street. So everyone's like, nobody turned the streets. Yeah, exactly. And maybe that's why the parents went out. They were like, no one's even going to be coming for candy. Like, it would be any doorbes like nothing. That's interesting.
01:42:57
Speaker
Right? Because as much as Halloween is like a spooky good time for like masks and stuff, I, if I were in Michael Myers position, I would worry about someone, yeah, just ringing the doorbell and seeing whatever I'm doing inside the house. But that doesn't seem to be any form of problem here. Yeah. And it's definitely Halloween, right?
01:43:18
Speaker
Yeah. Like it's gotta to be. Yeah. Halloween night, right? Yeah. Or did well let's double check now. Now in the script. Imagine a whole movie's called Halloween and it doesn't have that. It's like some some night in October.
01:43:34
Speaker
um The first murder is definitely Halloween. It says October 31st, 1968. Okay. i didn Oh, we did get a, now that I'm just reading through my notes. Trick or treaters walk by. Yeah. but We did get a um a black Christmas gag where Lori picks up the phone and there's chewing on the other end of the line. and She thinks it's going to be Michael and then it's just Annie. Oh yeah.
01:44:00
Speaker
I was like, oh. Yeah, I did make a note of like spooky phone calls. Yes. And when my Michael Myers is in the house at the end, the phone is dead. Oh, of course. She cut all the wires somehow. Yeah. I have a note in here in all caps. Why does no one look in the right direction in this movie? It would be too easy. Yeah, of course. Yeah, that is interesting though. I mean, we also, I guess, don't really know what time it is, except the kids are up until they're not
01:44:31
Speaker
like When she comes yeah back at the very end, they are asleep. um when When Michael Myers is like chasing her yeah back to the house. But for a lot of the evening, they are awake, so it's like it's not that late. like There should be trick or treaters out. Yeah, totally. And we don't even see anyone, Annie or Lori, go and answer the doorbell, at least not as if they you know It's not even like we hear one in the background and like, Oh, someone's yelling trick or treat or something. You know, yeah it definitely seems so like an isolated street at night. Yeah. And it's like, it's just residential homes. Cause there's like, like I live in condos and so it's like, they, we just don't get trick or treaters, but big houses like that and just a residential neighborhood. Yeah, absolutely. You'd at least like the local kids should at least do a lap before they go to whatever the cool neighborhood is. I mean, free candy. Yeah. Yeah.
01:45:27
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I wonder if we're supposed to feel like they already did by the time the babysitters come like they start, like they went out and then the parents are going out. Oh, okay. That could be, I could, I could get on board with that. Okay. They went out early, yeah like not too dark. They did their trick or treating. They came back. Yeah. I feel like we, if that is the case, we should see more candy.
01:45:56
Speaker
They were not eating a lick of candy. Yeah. Unless, I mean, was Halloween different in the 70s? Was typing. Was Halloween different in the 70s? I mean, it could, I guess it could have been like not as much of a cult following or around the holiday, if you will. Yeah. I mean, we, I, I could like in my head be like, oh, maybe trick-or-treating wasn't a thing, but we do see trick-or-treaters in the movie. So it's not that it's just maybe.
01:46:24
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. Yes. Halloween was different in the seventies in several ways. Okay. Including treat inspection. Oh, we saw that in psych where parents would inspect their children's candy. Yeah. I don't feel like that is like something that wouldn't happen now though. I feel like people will do that. Yeah.
01:46:47
Speaker
I feel like people will do that. I mean, it feels like, you know, pretty similar. Yeah. I'm going to ask my mom because we should ask our parents. All right. We'll talk about it when we watch the next Halloween. There you go. Whenever that is. Whenever that may be. Maybe next Halloween. Maybe this will be the next 20 years. We'll just always revisit a new Halloween. Yeah.
01:47:18
Speaker
Okay, is there anything else? Does he say any final thoughts? One thing I don't think we talked about, but there's a lot of breathing. There is. When you're in his POV, you hear him breathing, which is super creepy. Yeah, very spooky. I mean, I guess, yeah, it's kind of, it's kind of emblematic of masks to like be. Yeah, true. You know? Yeah, that that sound behind the rubber.
01:47:43
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah. Cause like that last, we hear it, I think over then credits and stuff too. Like all the shots of the house, we just hear him breathing. Yeah. All the shots of the different locations we've been. ah Yeah. This like, you know, i we finished watching this movie and I was like, this is the kind of horror movie that I feel like I'm good with.
01:48:07
Speaker
Yeah. You know, like the spooky, suspensey, a little bit of death makes me think, but isn't like scare your socks off, make me question my life for three days. Yeah. And I like that it's something that gets referenced often in pop culture. So now you kind of feel like you're in on the yeah ah on the joke or in on the bit, you know?
01:48:38
Speaker
and I mean, that's the whole reason why we're we're watching these in the first place is to further understand like the brains of Shawn and Gus and the references of Shawn and Gus in the world of Psych. But it's also kind of fun to be like, oh yeah, people are going to reference this in the real world all the time. Yeah. yeah and like Well, we talk about Shawn and guest live in the real world. Yeah. Minus all of their acting bits. Yeah. I know. We really, we kind of started our conversation before we like came into the episodes. I feel like we sort of started without talking about, but happy Halloween. This is our special Halloween episode. And yeah, continuing to expand
01:49:18
Speaker
the what we define as the world of psych because really this movie does not have like we're gonna watch right or yeah we'll watch Friday the 13th when we watch Tuesday the 17th we watch Black Christmas for Scary Sherry but like this there is not a one-to-one for this movie no not really it's like an iconic horror movie that I think we can comfortably say is a reference, as you said, yeah for James Rodeo Rodriguez and for Shawn and Gus. Yeah, um and in Tuesday the 17th at least. yeah like we have mean instances Yeah, without a doubt. Knowing that James Rodeo Rodriguez is such a huge horror fan, I don't think there's any way that he could create a show that is
01:50:04
Speaker
as in love with horror as Psych is and not reference the Halloween franchise. Yeah, it's just so so ah yeah iconic in the so world of horror. Yeah. And now that I'm thinking about it, I'm just picturing, because you mentioned like how that the Tuesday the 17th villain is in like kind of a similar outfit. He's also got a big knife.
01:50:35
Speaker
Yeah, in the final scene when he's like standing in the pool. Yeah. And there's that moment where. Oh, he has that terrifying mask on. Well, he's got that on and then, but also like when Sean figures it out and he was like, this isn't Friday the 13th. It's.
01:50:51
Speaker
Oh yeah, what does he say? Whatever he says. um But he's got a knife, a fake knife to his throat, and then he does that. We're going to get into it, but he does that great moment where he like collapses about the knife. Oh, it's so good. Damn, I want to talk about that episode so bad, but it's not yet. I know, I know. But yeah, definitely references. And I mean, the Annie stuff and her being in the laundry room, that feels like a very subtle nod to it. yeah Yes, 100%. Because otherwise, like, why would I mean, yeah, it just makes so much sense. That would be it. Yes, 100%. And we thought, of course, it is actually Halloween. So why not watch Halloween? Yeah, we were like, we should do something special probably. And here we are. and We are further expanding our understanding of the horror genre.
01:51:41
Speaker
At the end of this, we'll be pros. I think we you honestly, I think so. We're getting there. Yeah. I mean, I feel like we're having like great conversations and like good thoughts about it. They may not be new thoughts because these movies are almost 50 years old, but still be fun. Yeah.
01:52:00
Speaker
I am a little worried about when we start venturing into the more recent stuff, yeah but im I am very happy set in the 70s. Yeah, I mean, we don't do like what we have So the first Friday the 13th, when was that?
01:52:17
Speaker
Oh, that's a good question. no I I think the ones they reference are all pretty old. 1980. Okay. Really? Yeah. And then FX and that are so much more, but we'll see. I guess I'm just really thinking of his makeup. Oh, an American werewolf in London is 81. Okay. All right. So we're solidly set in 1900s.
01:52:46
Speaker
oh for at least a little while. then Then we'll see what we want to do. yeah okay what we that force about ourselves We've got like all of the Hitchcock franchise to get through. yeah no That's going to be a big week. A big undertaking. know How are we even going to do that? I don't even know. yeah all right we're goingnna have to plan way We might need a bigger hiatus in between.
01:53:12
Speaker
yeah We do have some time on that one. Yeah, that's true. I
Conclusion and Reflections
01:53:17
Speaker
think that's a good idea. Well, if you enjoyed hanging out with us, join us back here next week for more on-topic discussion, I suppose. We're going to talk about season two, episode eight of the famed TV show Psych. The 66101 would like to thank and credit the design efforts of Olivia Genesis, musical talents of Skane Music and Miguel Hunt, the production abilities of Kyle Dalton and Skiller Jensen,
01:53:44
Speaker
and of course the support of our friends and family. If you enjoyed the episode, make sure to rate and review and join us back here next time on Work With Cy6 101.