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Episode 53 - 1943 World Series and HOF Results
23 Plays1 month ago
Yankees win the rematch over the Cardinals as most of the games big stars are off serving in WWII (Zach shudders).
As the HOF welcomes Andruw Jones and Carlos Beltran, Mac breaks down the biggest winners and losers from this year, and possible storylines for next year's class.
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
Well,
Introduction & Context of 1943 World Series
00:00:01
Speaker
as Carlos Beltran once said, bang, bang, bang. What's up, everybody?
Impact of WWII on Baseball
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to the 1943 episode of Championship Robust with Mac, Zach, and Josh. We got the Cardinals, we got the Yankees, and we got a lot of people off to war.
00:00:16
Speaker
Josh, go ahead.
00:00:20
Speaker
So like you said, New York Yankees and the St. Louis Cardinals, a rematch from 1942, where the Cardinals won five games. Both teams ran away with their leagues. The Yankees finished ninety eight and fifty six winning the American League by games, and Cardinals finished winning the National League games. And like Mike said, with the U.S. firmly involved in World War II now, many star players on both teams did not play because they were out fighting the war. Johnny Beasley, Jimmy Brown, creepy Crespi, Terry Moore, and Enos Slaughter did not play for the Cardinals. Joe DiMaggio, Phil Rizzuto, Red Ruffing, and Buddy Hassett did not play for the Yankees. And Red Ruffin also retired from the Yankees, going to become a coach at Dartmouth College. So a lot of the guys that played the year before did not play this year.
00:01:04
Speaker
Yet, despite that, the Cardinals still had the three best pitchers in a National League on their roster. And Hallie Pollitt, Max Lanier, and Moore Cooper. Also due to the war, there were travel restrictions.
Game Highlights & Outcomes
00:01:18
Speaker
So instead of the usual 2-3-2 home format, they decided to do 3-4, they would only have to travel one time.
00:01:25
Speaker
This was also the first series to have an accompanying World Series highlight film. ah So they sent it as a gift to the troops overseas. That's awesome. So game one in New York.
00:01:38
Speaker
So the Cardinals opened the scoring in the top of the second when Marty Marion doubled in a run off Spud Chandler. In the bottom fourth with runners on first and third but no acts with no outs, Max Lanier got Charlie Keller to hit into a 4-6-3 double play, but the run scored to tie the game.
00:01:51
Speaker
Joe Gordon followed up with a solo home run to give the Yankees the lead. wouldn't last long, though, because in the top of the fifth, the Cardinals tied the game when Ray Sanders singled to lead off the inning, reached second on an error, and scored a Max Lanier single.
00:02:02
Speaker
In the bottom of the sixth, after two leadoff singles, the Yankees would score on a wild pitch to take the lead and then add another on Bill Dickey's RBI single to make it 4-2. That's how the game would stay. Spud Chandler would finish the game, giving up two runs on seven hits in the Yankee win.
00:02:16
Speaker
Game two, so the Cardinals open the scoring again. in the top of the third this time, a Marty Marion solo home run. In the top of the fourth, Stan Musial singled, moved the second on the ground out, and scored a Whitey Kurowski single. Ray Sanders followed it up with a two-run homer, making it for nothing In the bottom of that inning, the Yankees would get on the board on Charlie Keller's sack fly. The game was quiet until the bottom of the ninth.
00:02:37
Speaker
Down three, Billy Johnson laid off the inning for the Yankees with a double and then scored on Charlie Keller's triple. After a line-out, Nick Eaton, Hit an RBI ground out, they bring the Yankees within one. But more Cooper got Joe Gordon to pop out into foul ground to end the game.
00:02:52
Speaker
Cooper finished the game giving up just three runs on six hits, winning the game and tying the series for the Cardinals. Cooper threw this game after finding out that his father had died that morning, but he insisted on playing, saying that's what his father would have wanted.
00:03:04
Speaker
Gotta respect that. Gotta respect that. And threw a pretty good game, too.
00:03:09
Speaker
So game three, so the Cardinals, yet again, open up the scoring. After loading the bases at the top of the fourth, Danny Litwer drove in two on a single, but they couldn't score any more runs than that. In the bottom of the sixth, Hank Bowery hit a leadoff double, moved a third on a sack fly, and scored an error to cut the lead to one.
00:03:25
Speaker
bottom of the eighth, the Yankees would load the bases before Billy Johnson hit a triple to clear them and give the Yankees the lead. RBI singles from Joe Gordon and Nick Eden would give the Yankees a four-run cushion, heading into the ninth, where Johnny Murphy would sit the Cardinals down in order. The Yankees taking game three, six to two, and now leading the series two to one.
00:03:43
Speaker
Game four, now in St. Louis, so the Yankees open the scoring in the top of the fourth when Joe Gordon doubled with two outs and then scored on Bill Dickey's single. In the bottom the seventh with two outs, the Cardinals reach on an error, a double, and an intentional walk to load the bases before scoring on an error to tie the game. That's baseball.
00:03:59
Speaker
In the top of the eighth, Marius Russo would lead off the inning with a double, move to third on a sack, but, and score on a sack, fly. Now that is definitely baseball. That's Zach's kind of baseball. You like that. Definitely Zach's kind of baseball. i Especially considering the guy that hit the leadoff double was the pitcher, who would then finish the game, giving up just one earned run on six hits in the 2-1 victory, giving the Yankees a three to one series lead.
00:04:23
Speaker
Game five, saw a pitcher's duel. Spud Chandler and Mark Cooper, each of them throwing five scoreless innings before the Yankees finally broke through. One swing of the bat, Bill Dickey took Cooper deep with two outs and a top and a six to give the Yankees a 2-0 lead.
00:04:38
Speaker
Yet, despite giving up 10 hits and two walks, Spud Chandler would finish the game, a complete game shutout for the Yankees, winning the game, winning the World Series four games to one.
Post-war Baseball Reflections
00:04:50
Speaker
I wonder how much of that was impacted by that 3-4 format because they already got off to a 2-1 head start before they even went to St. Louis. Yep. So by then, your momentum shot.
00:05:03
Speaker
That's a good point. I wish we could find that highlight reel. That'd be awesome to see. Yeah. Taking a look at the Hall of Famers, which are kind of dead in this World Series, so I'm going to take it a little bit of a different route. I thought each team has to replace like five guys.
00:05:21
Speaker
Yeah. to make Zach shudder a little bit. don't know what everybody did in the war. God. So starting with losing Cardinals. um I'll start with the military, then go into the players who played. But Ennis Lauder was in the military at this point. He was in the Army Air Corps.
00:05:37
Speaker
um He was actually a sergeant and gym teacher. So he set up baseball leagues in some islands that are part of the U.S. territories. And he would actually get crowds of over 20,000 people.
00:05:49
Speaker
So baseball was alive and well during war. was just not Major League Baseball. So I guess stats weren't really kept. But you guys see that kind of recurring a lot, a lot of baseball-related military service. um There's a lot of stories about guys who went who went off the war and got to you know play with you know some of the pros, especially after the war ended when they were slowly bringing the guys home.
00:06:15
Speaker
Yeah. So cool. ah manager Billy Southworth. ah He was actually managing the series. it was second pennant. He's now 1-1 in the series.
00:06:25
Speaker
And Stan Musial was playing. its second appearance in the World Series. He remains at one ring. Didn't do too great in the series. Hit.278, 5 for 18. No extra base hits.
00:06:36
Speaker
Moving to the Yankees, got a lot of military service here. Phil Rizzuto served in the U.S. Navy. He played on a Navy baseball team with his rival shortstop, Pee Wee Reese. um At one point, Bill Dickey actually managed this team, but it wasn't this year because he was busy playing in the actual World Series. So wasn't here and there.
00:06:55
Speaker
But Red Ruffing. Now, this is an interesting story that don't think we ever covered on here when we were doing, like, is he a Hall of Famer? And that's on me. I dropped the ball on this. But he was actually declared unfit for service by his primary care physician because at 15 years old, he was mining with his dad and he lost four toes in an accident.
00:07:15
Speaker
Oh, my God. So down four toes is still major league player. Wow, dude. Which kind of makes me want to reconsider my vote for a CEO Hall of Famer with him, to be honest.
00:07:26
Speaker
That's because he's down four toes. That's a story. Yeah, that's awesome. like I think, you know honestly, like i I'm not in the my majority, but I would vote for Jim Abbott.
00:07:37
Speaker
Does that mean Abbott should be in the Hall of Fame? I was going to say, i would not be against Jim Abbott being in the Hall of Fame. It's all about telling the stories of A, the greats, but i think there's room for guys that yo overcame that obstacle. I can see that.
00:07:50
Speaker
Fair enough. But don't know. I'm just going off topic. But Selective Service decided, screw that. He can play or he can fight and be non-combat things. So um he was in the Air Transport Command of the U.S. amy ah of us amy us Army ah Air Forces, and he pitched for their baseball team and threw a perfect game against Joe DiBagio's team.
00:08:11
Speaker
Wow. In 1944, he played with a different all-star team for troops in Hawaii. So little interesting tidbit there. I'd say the most interesting World War II stories from this group that's from these teams is Joe DiMaggio.
00:08:27
Speaker
ah Served in the U.S. Army Air Forces and got his highest staff sergeant. He was also a phys ed teacher in Atlantic City, Santa Ana, and Hawaii. He made $21 month. Oh, i So teachers were not making any money back then either. That's good to know.
00:08:42
Speaker
So he was actually playing baseball during most of his service time. ah He would play against other major league players like these guys. But it also comes out that he was mostly spending his time playing, tanning on a beach and drinking.
00:08:56
Speaker
So he admitted that he was embarrassed by this and actually asked his higher ups for a combat job and was told no. So another interesting thing with DiMaggio, his parents, Giuseppe and Rosalia, not too long after this, were considered enemy aliens after Pearl Harbor.
00:09:13
Speaker
So Giuseppe liked to fish, and he actually got his boat taken away, and he was banned from the San Francisco Bay until they both became American citizens by 1946. I think is what the wife was first, and then Giuseppe followed him.
00:09:29
Speaker
But yeah, so those are the stories of the military service from the Yankees that were that would have been playing in this. ah The players that were playing for the Yankees and managers, manager Joe McCarthy, this is his final pennant. I feel like we've talked about him so many times, and that's because we have talked about him so many times.
00:09:44
Speaker
It was his ninth pennant. He finishes with seven World Series titles and an all-time great manager. We have Bill Dickey. It's his final World Series as well. Finishes with seven rings and eight pennants. He hit.278 in this one, five for 18 with a home run, four runs batted in.
00:10:00
Speaker
And Joe Gordon, his fourth title in five World Series appearances, didn't hit very well,.235 with an 821 OPS because he had a home run and a double, but he went four for 17 with three walks. So nothing great there.
00:10:14
Speaker
um But definitely a ah fascinating little World Series To be fair, i don't think anyone really had these. We're not very high-scoring games. They really weren't. This was not the usual Yankees where they're scoring 10 runs.
00:10:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:32
Speaker
But those are the Hall of Famers from this series. And it's going be interesting seeing where this goes going forward for the next few years with this war.
MLB Labor Issues & Player Relations
00:10:40
Speaker
What a life, man. Can you imagine just being in the army and then being shipped off to Hawaii? like Yeah.
00:10:47
Speaker
These guys just had such crazy lives. It's so cool to hear about it. Does it... it's so cool to hear about it. Who's this? don't know. Does it sway you a little bit? Oh, geez. Yeah, of course. your stats? Yes, yes. What do you think I'm like sitting there when... Who was it that didn't get cleared? Peewee Reese didn't get cleared for the military? No, he got in. think it was Joe Gordon. Joe Gordon.
00:11:12
Speaker
I think I'm sitting like, yes, he's not going away to the war. that Yeah, he went and you voted against him. Red roughing we all voted against, so it wasn't him.
00:11:24
Speaker
But honestly reconsidering that now knowing the toes incident. I shouldn't, I should have accounted for that.
00:11:33
Speaker
I absolutely should have accounted for that more. That's on me. and All right. Where do we want to start? I mean, start with the domino effect. We can talk about Kyle Tucker ruining baseball, bla blah, blah, blah.
00:11:44
Speaker
Is he ruining baseball? I'm going to go on record here, and I want this on the air. Go ahead. We will have baseball in 2027. Really? Get out of here. You will. It won't be a full season.
00:11:57
Speaker
There's no way that they're going to screw this up again. There's no way. You really you really think that? Yeah, you're dumb. when The league is running league is already running damage control a year and a half before the lockout. I don't know about that one. Somebody will cave by May.
00:12:12
Speaker
I mean, all these owners. May 2027, not now. these GMs do. They have all these contracts in place for the walkout. They have opt-outs and stuff like they know what's going on. Yeah, but I mean, they put it on. they put it in Bellinger's contract.
00:12:26
Speaker
Yeah. But the owners aren't going to want to lose another season. They know that there's going to be a lot of people that are not going to come back, and they don't have steroids to bail them out anymore. Well, Dodgers don't want to lose another season.
00:12:37
Speaker
that's That's for sure. well that's what they But they're the team that's gonna get that would get hurt. i just Listen, we've talked about it before. If you want to institute a salary cap, you just you can't.
00:12:47
Speaker
The players will never go for it. your e ease Yeah, I think a floor is more effective, I just, personally. And the owners will not go for that because they don't want to have, they don't want to be forced to spend money, they just want to tell other people they can't spend it.
00:12:59
Speaker
I think it'll be a sell out your young kind of thing. We'll institute a salary cap in 2035.
00:13:08
Speaker
Ooh, I don't know. We'll all be retired anyway. Why would we care? Oh, like grandfather. I guess that. Maybe a little later than 2035, maybe 2040. Maybe that works for today's players because they're not messing They're not going care. They're going to screw over the future generation. Like, I get that.
00:13:22
Speaker
Give the minor leaguers better living conditions. We'll agree to this. Yeah. If that concern with the little guy, that'll be their way around it. But the players aren't going want to lose a year of making money.
00:13:34
Speaker
Especially after what we saw with COVID, too. like There was a lot of guys who, you know, we kind of saw it this year with the whole... There was almost a lockdown right after that. Yes. They missed spring training. They got lucky. They got lucky. Yeah. They played the season.
00:13:48
Speaker
Yeah. And you and you saw it Everybody played like absolute garbage in the first month because they had no spring training. Right. And I think there's a little ripple effect from that as well.
00:14:01
Speaker
It'll get contentious. It'll look ugly. We'll have at least some baseball. I just think that your problem is that you still have guys like Scherzer, who's on these committees, and you know he's all but retired. So he's not – I don't think he's on board with salary cap kind of stuff. But will Scherzer be there? Scherzer may not play this year.
00:14:23
Speaker
Scherzer might still be on the board regardless of his point. He might, yeah. Well, you think he will? I can't see him bothering that way he's not playing and it's not effective. You know, i as a bit of a rap that he has for being kind of weird, I think he does normally do the right thing for the players, and I just don't see salary cap being the right thing for the players.
00:14:44
Speaker
I would agree with that. Yeah, I agree that. just don't know, like, would anybody really care if you're out of it? Like, why would you want to go through the stress? Because he's weird. he's I'm sure they're grooming other guys that would be ready for it too.
00:14:57
Speaker
Yeah, he's one of the top guys in the players union. So like so there's definitely other guys that are like right under him that they've prepped. I don't know. I know you're saying there's going to be baseball. I think the owners are too stupid to understand like what's gonna you know what's going on and stuff.
00:15:14
Speaker
i mean I don't think it's that they're stupid. I think they're they're very smart businessmen who understand that if there's no baseball, there's no business.
00:15:25
Speaker
Like, you really think Bob Nutting is going to... Yeah, but the right, because he'll do that. Like, if you say that, and then he's going to let Paul... All he cares about is the money. He's not signing anybody. i know. That's what I'm saying. is It feels very backwards.
00:15:38
Speaker
people are People will bend over. It'll happen. i don't I don't know, man. I mean, did you see Manfred was on the radio a few weeks ago in the fan, and he was like...
00:15:49
Speaker
well, I've never been in a negotiation where the players are already putting their demands out before we even hit the negotiation table. He's like, that's not how that's going to work. So, you know, they're on a really good foot. They all get ugly. They're running damage controls your're control. A year before it's even happening, there's a problem.
00:16:06
Speaker
And they know it's going to be a problem. Yeah. It's it's union 101. There's always a gap And then gap's closed. Right. It happens in every sport.
00:16:17
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, the the relationship between the Players Association and you know Major League Baseball is already... I mean, there isn't one, basically. It's that it sits that bad. it can't It literally cannot get worse. Yeah.
00:16:31
Speaker
Pretty bad. Someone will panic. I don't know. It's a staring contest until someone breaks. I don't think the players are break. i think there's gonna be enough bad PR against the owners.
00:16:44
Speaker
um Players may get what they want. I'm with Sherm. I don't think the players are going to bend because... You know, mildly related to this. No, no, no. I'm saying the owners going to have the bad PR. The owners going to be the ones to bend. Oh, yes.
00:16:54
Speaker
I was going to mildly related to this. I don't... i'm Well, I'm sure Mike, you didn't follow it, but Zach might have seen some of it. But ah the East Coast Hockey League, the ECHL, which is a step... Two steps below the NHL.
00:17:06
Speaker
ah The players ah like like also had a Derek-Click-a-bargain agreement came to an end last year. And they all agreed that while they let the Players Association negotiate, that they would ah play anyway.
00:17:21
Speaker
Oh, after playing two months of the season and nothing changed and nothing got better, they decided to strike anyway. Well, nothing got better because I'm assuming that league is not making any money. and Exactly. No, that's the thing. It's that the players were not making any money. Owners were not even you know paying team planes and stuff like that. It was bad. The the playing conditions these guys had were were horrible.
00:17:45
Speaker
um but Interesting. It took them not long on a strike before the owners caved because of the PR. The PR was terrible. It was really bad. Right.
00:17:57
Speaker
So maybe maybe maybe that... Yeah, if the owners – I don't think the players going waiver. It's going to be the owners. The narrative is very simple. the owners will The owners believe that taxpayers should fund their stadiums but not your grandma's heart medicine. That's all you need to say.
00:18:12
Speaker
and Yes. That's all that needs to be said. Oakland oakland believes that the taxpayers should fund the stadium. That they can't pick a location for you. Yeah, but they can't they can't you know spend money on players or even trademark their own team name.
00:18:27
Speaker
Yep. Yep.
00:18:31
Speaker
Do you think deferrals are going to be gone? I feel like yes, right? Have to be. That I feel like is going to be. no one i think That one I think players would cave on. Yeah. Have to be. No salary cap but no deferrals.
00:18:42
Speaker
I think we'll end up being some players. I'm okay with that. I think the players would be too. Deferrals are dumb. The NHL just got rid of it. The deferrals got to stop. I don't think that you can.
00:18:53
Speaker
Yeah. I agree. Because Tucker's only getting 30 mil deferred, I
Mets' Offseason Strategies
00:18:58
Speaker
think. but um Yeah, his deferral money is not as bad. no but its And I don't think any team besides the Dodgers will really fight that.
00:19:06
Speaker
You only need, I think, 24 to back it up. Yeah, I wonder how do you think they can go – are they going to grandfather these old contracts in then? Because somebody like Shohei is ready. They're going to have to. You're going have to. Yeah, you can't just restructure it. Floid contracts like that. yeah Expansion draft without an expansion draft.
00:19:23
Speaker
Just take the Dodgers' whole team, them up in a draft. Yeah. Hopefully they'll be screwed in 10 years paying 60 mil to Shohei while their team is bad. One can hope.
00:19:34
Speaker
Except it won't be bad. It'll never be bad. That's the problem. They seem to still just have prospects just, you know, leaking out of their seams. Good ownership group, right?
00:19:45
Speaker
Crazy what that does. Good ownership group, good scouting group. i mean, you name it. yeah All right. um We want to talk about this domino effect that happened then because once the Mets were in on Tucker, um Cohen tweeted out basically implying that it was not a done deal, but he was like he was pretty excited about it.
00:20:04
Speaker
Text me when you see smoke or something like that Yeah, like the Pope thing. And then he ended up going to LA. And then the Mets panicked and signed Bo Bichette. Three years, 126 mil, which is just mind-blowing to me because I don't think that dude is worth 42 mil a year. That's just nuts, dude.
00:20:21
Speaker
It felt like a panic move to me. He's not, especially if he's going to DH. Right, because you can't play him at short. He's not a good fielder. Well, you can't play him at short because you have Francis Golondor and you can't play him at second because you have Marcus Semien.
00:20:32
Speaker
i said They said they're going to play him at third base, but how long until he's DHing and you have Beatty or Vientos playing third base? I give it a month. He doesn't have the arm for third. He doesn't have the anything for third base. He's not a good fielder in any in any aspect of the game.
00:20:48
Speaker
Right. I mean, he is Anthony Volpe if Volpe could hit. I mean, you're not going to you're not goingnna put Simeon on the bench when you just traded for him. Nope. I can't see them trading Lindor because they brought in Bichette. But why would you pay $42 million? like Panic.
00:21:05
Speaker
You have, what, $72 million a year now invested in the middle and field? It's so interesting to me because Stearns came into the offseason all like, oh, run prevention, defense. And now you got Polanco playing out of position at first. And you sign arguably one of the worst fielders in the class.
00:21:22
Speaker
Like, I don't. Well, the thing is, who's DH-ing for you? Why wouldn't it be Bichette? It doesn't make sense. Yeah, I guess. It doesn't make sense. I mean, granted, I don't think Beatty or Vientos are particularly great fielders either because they're not. Yeah.
00:21:36
Speaker
They would still probably do better than Bichette at third base. At what point did you think did Cohen just step in and say, you got to sign people? Because, I mean, he went, they went crazy like the last week. They got, even mention yet, Luis Robert.
00:21:48
Speaker
I mean, that's, that's, they needed a center fielder and that's a great, you know. That's the good positional need. That was a good move for them. They didn't give up much. And that guy could either be a 30 home run hitter or complete trash. Nobody knows what's going to happen now that he's out of the White Sox organization, so. Right.
00:22:06
Speaker
All right. The problem with Acuna is that you have a Dominguez slash Spencer Jones issue with the Mets. He was not going to play anywhere because they just added Bichette and Simeon. Yep. He had nowhere else to go. He might as well. It was like trading a bag of chips, and that's not meant to be disrespectful to Acuna. It's just that he had no place on the team.
00:22:24
Speaker
Yeah. ah You already have too many infielders, and you still have too many. yeah You still Beatty, too, that we even mention. Yeah. Yeah. You still have Beatty, Vientos. And they got rid of McNeil. Well, yeah.
00:22:37
Speaker
Yeah. McNeil's done. I know. And we didn't even mention, yes, and they got Freddie Peralta as well. They gave up Jet Williams and Sprott. And Sprott's the guy you give up out of those three young guys too, I don think.
00:22:48
Speaker
That's a great move for them. you're great You're picking up a guy who was top five in Cy Young voting last year who is pitching in a contract year. i like that move for them a lot. I do that. I like everything they did. 100 times out of 100 times I do that.
00:23:01
Speaker
I like every move the Mets made except for how much money they paid Bichette, but I don't think you're gonna get him without giving him that contract. The other thing I don't like with the Mets is letting Diaz walk. and i was getting I was about to say that, Mike. I was going to say at this point. I've been in the last two weeks. I i am men i amend my answer. That's fair. I mean, with Alonzo, yes I get – he could have been their David Wright of this generation. Oh, yeah. with it Yeah.
00:23:27
Speaker
But if you're bringing in guys like Peralta and you're bringing in guys like Bichette, I can get behind letting him walk. If you, you know, power hitters, bigger guys tend to not age well, fine.
00:23:40
Speaker
Diaz was an inexcusable miss. I agree with you. They needed they needed it somebody at the bullpen that's not Devin Williams. and It's not Rick Lever. yeah But at the same time, the Peralta trade, not only are you getting a bona fide ace, but I think you're taking the pressure off of McLean, who was kind of coming in here as your ace. so Now it's like, hey, I have a guy that I can sit around and I can talk to and I can pick his brain and I can you know learn it from him.
00:24:06
Speaker
um and I think it's going to be really good for him. Yeah. Do you think they're done? I think so. Yeah. Because you have Valdez and Gallin sitting there. ah That's interesting. I don't know. Valdez might be trying to kill his catcher again. so Yeah, I don't know who wants him.
00:24:23
Speaker
I don't know. I think Baltimore is going sign one of those two. Then I think it's going to be Valdez. They need pitching so bad. They do.
00:24:34
Speaker
ah I still think the Yankees could use pitching, but am I running to sign either of them? No. Not really. yeah Well, i mean, if Austin Wells is everyday catcher, sure, we can have Valdez.
00:24:47
Speaker
so There was somebody else on the list that was much lower that I saw that was a pitcher, and I was like, oh, that guy would actually be pretty good to get, but I forget who it was. Oh, you mean Ranger Suarez or Wacon? No, it was much farther down on the list.
00:25:01
Speaker
um Zach, pull the list. The list. Free agent list? Yeah. Wait second. I forgot who it was. it was Littell. Oh, yeah. He's not bad. He's not bad.
00:25:14
Speaker
i wouldn't mind Giolito either. Yeah. When he plays, he's good. i prefer Littell because you can just stuff him in the bullpen. Yeah, he's pretty good.
00:25:25
Speaker
He was with Tampa, right? Yeah. Yeah, he's not bad. He's nothing great or anything. No, but he was solid. I think you could easily stuff him in the bullpen. Yeah. Marcelo Zunas still unsigned. I mean, listen, Lattell— He's getting from the field.
00:25:40
Speaker
Lattell had a.380 ERA last year. terrible. He pitched 32 games. Yeah. And the guy's been back and forth between starting and relieving most of his career.
00:25:53
Speaker
I would have signed that guy before I went and I traded for Ryan Weathers, but that's just me. Well, yeah. Don't worry, though. We got bellen you we got Belly. He's back. 31 a minute. Yes, officially official as of today. 32 mil a year, baby.
00:26:08
Speaker
I'm cool with We had to do it. I'm not upset it. We would have been mad. We would have been mad if he signed elsewhere. Yes. I'm not upset about it at all. It's just that we managed three years the division is getting better in three years.
00:26:21
Speaker
If he's playing well, he'll opt out. And if he doesn't, we'll we'll be mad and he'll stay. Those those are your two options, pretty much. Pretty much. It's just the division got so much better, I think, as a whole, and we have stayed the same, which sucks.
00:26:35
Speaker
Stayed exactly the same. Yeah. A little worse because our bullpen is empty. But anyway, like I said, Ranger Suarez to the Red Sox really, really hurts me because I like him a lot, and now I'm going to to hate the guy.
00:26:48
Speaker
yeah you're Yeah, the Red Sox have a pretty elite pitching staff. Yeah, it's nasty. It's, what is it, Crochet, Sonny Gray, Bellow. Crochet Gray.
00:26:59
Speaker
Him. Suarez. Yeah. We got, what, Cutter Crawford, Brian Baio. And Tanner Haktua. Tanner Haktua, Kyle Harrison. Yeah, they got had some good arms there.
00:27:13
Speaker
nasty I hate that and they could have Ryan Weathers yep a good test to see if the Ryan Weathers is a good move is if I get angry when I hear about it and I was very angry I was yeah I was really mad about that one how is I was angry he's very didn't them to do things but it's like i don't know dude Eight months ago, we were laughing that they traded Rafi Devers for a sack of potatoes, and now it's like they've totally turned into a a good team again. It's like we knew that they had like that three-headed monster in juniors. Not juniors, and yeah in the minors.
00:27:49
Speaker
Yep. and it And it was going to come, and and that was when they were going to turn it around. and they're already here. Yeah, I took him already here. He is that guy. And what do the Yankees have? Nothing. They re-signed belly.
00:28:01
Speaker
He has no prospects. they can't They won't sign anybody. I just, I don't know. Mired in mediocrity. We have Cam Schlittler. We have Cam Schlittler. Yeah. They have some pitching prospects that are okay. They have nobody that can hit the ball.
00:28:16
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, I forgot to mention this. And part of the Kyle Tucker domino effect, um the Phillies were courting Bo Bichette, and he was all set to sign there, seven years, 200 mil.
MLB Player Transactions & Negotiations
00:28:29
Speaker
And they were actually so sure that he was going to sign that Dombrowski called JT Romino and told him to look elsewhere. And then the next day he signed with the Mets. ah it's It's just baffling to me because why would the Phillies want?
00:28:42
Speaker
him like they have so much money invested in all these players it's just not making a lot of money until he's 40. I mean you got I'd rather pay Stott less than sign Bo if I'm them because needs to shed salary he's he's too but I don't know what he's doing. That's what Dombrowski does. yeah He goes all in and then he's all out. I was going to say that it wouldn't shock me if they tried to turn Turner into an outfielder.
00:29:12
Speaker
Again, maybe. Yeah, because he was a center fielder at one point.
00:29:17
Speaker
That's a good call. If they if they would have signed Bichette, put Bichette at short and try to put Turner in outfield again. Yeah. and One of the corner outfields. Especially if they're trying so desperately to get rid of Castellanos. was going to say, if Castellanos is gone, that makes sense. Because you certainly could not play outfield worse than that guy. No, should not be on the team come spring training. They're trying to get rid of him.
00:29:38
Speaker
um But I don't know who's going to take that guy. But anyway. He'll live forever in the hall of memes. It's funny because I don't even know if there was a market for JT because a few days later, the Phillies just re-signed him anyway for three years at $15 million a year. Which was overpriced. There would have been a market if they had to give him that kind of money, though. Yeah.
00:29:55
Speaker
Like somebody must have i guess called and said, okay, hey, we want to give you some money. I can't tell you who. Yeah, I don't know. Who wants him? Maybe it's the White Sox. They've been spending money recently.
00:30:08
Speaker
Just kidding. They don't need him like They have a catching prospect that's actually good. Oh, is this Jeremy's poll? no Honestly, I don't know. Kyle Teal, I'm pretty sure, is their catcher. who i I think he came up last year towards the end of the year.
00:30:23
Speaker
Gotcha. um Honestly, Mike, good call. i would have I would have taken JT at a reduced rate for one or two years. Cut that price in half, and I'm open to it. Yeah. Not a $15 million. $15 million nuts. The Yankees don't even have a backup catcher right now. You know that, right?
00:30:38
Speaker
I wonder if there was a tax, though, for the Phillies after he told JT to look elsewhere. was like, all right. He must have been pissed. Now I'm not signing unless you give me an extra five mil. Yeah. What's that? Wait. i thought the Yankees do have a catcher. His name it was JC Escara, right? He's our back. He's still with the team?
00:30:55
Speaker
He might be. Jim questions. He's still with the team? Like, is he under contract? Oh, I don't know. he is. yeah Is he? I thought so. Yes,
00:31:04
Speaker
Let me check. JC Escobar. He's not going back to driving over? Pre-arbitration contract, yeah. Yeah, he had a whopping 202 last year. Exactly what we need, boys. I'll tell you what. Real Muto's going to give you 210. He's not. at least he can At least he can play defense, though. Yeah.
00:31:24
Speaker
It's crazy. You're estimating him making 820K. Oh, scary. I mean, yeah. He shouldn't even be in the major leagues.
00:31:35
Speaker
Good for him, though. i They decided that Ben Rice is their everyday first baseman, so which is he will be the emergency catcher. Yeah. Unless one of those two guys gets hurt.
00:31:47
Speaker
And Harrison Bader signed with the Giants today, two-year deal, since um good for him they can't get anybody to take their money. Considering the Giants wanted to get a defensive center fielder, because yeah whatever the guy's name is. Jungle League. Jungle League. I got held at TSA.
00:32:05
Speaker
Yeah. but That was crazy. That's funny. ah hey remember who tweet I think it was it Heyman that just tweeted that? He's like, oh, he's held a TSA. He's no longer held a TSA. I think it was Nightingale. He has had a great week. I saw the UDAR issues.
00:32:25
Speaker
so He was one that tweeted out that Yu Darvish is retiring just so they can just so he could tweet out 10 minutes later and he's not retiring. oh It Acey, who's like a Padre guy. I think Kevin Acey. And then Nightingale reposted it. And then Nightingale naturally took all the crap.
00:32:40
Speaker
Yeah, see it now Yu Darvish is going to deceive us. Steven Strasburg that, which, you know, whatever. He's done. Yeah. That just reeked of an agent negotiating his payout.
00:32:52
Speaker
yeah Hey, man. yeah He signed the contract. He's entitled to it. He absolutely is. He's never playing again, though. Absolutely not. He just has to say that he is and collect his check. Yeah, well, if he retires, they don't have to pay Right. Yeah.
00:33:11
Speaker
If Padre Vance is a bagging on, he's such an honorable guy. He doesn't care about money. Anyone's going to care about that kind of money. Yes. and I would. I would. Yeah. I can't blame him.
00:33:23
Speaker
Don't like it. Don't give me that contract.
00:33:27
Speaker
Yeah, that's all I had. We had talked about the big stuff. um If there's anything else, if not, can talk Hall of Fame. did you talk about Bregman last time? Oh, I did. for No, good point. Bregman to the Cubs.
00:33:38
Speaker
Bregman to the Cubs. I think we did talk about this. They just spend money on one guy a year. it's Yeah, I mean, i mean it's a it's a good signing for them. i mean, i you know, screw Boston, right?
00:33:53
Speaker
Yeah. I really thought that he was going back. Yes. I love hearing all the Boston fans in my life trying to cope about that one. They were they acted like they didn't care at all. You care. We all know you care. I'm sure they were best.
00:34:07
Speaker
But it sounded like the Cubs were willing to give Bregman a no-trade clause for every year, and the Red Sox were not, and that's why he went with the Cubs because he didn't want to – he's got young kids. He didn't want to move his kids again.
00:34:20
Speaker
Yeah, I get that. first Fair enough. I can respect that even though I have no respect for him. No. yeah Listen, make that money, dude. He had a really good year last year before he got hurt.
00:34:30
Speaker
Yeah, he did. yeah Surprisingly, when you know you're not banging on trash cans. Yeah. Oh, one thing I did forget. Yeah, bang, bang. It's What was I going to say? Oh, the arbitration difference between Scoobo and the Tigers is astounding to me. Can we talk about this too?
00:34:49
Speaker
don't think it's astounding at all. He's going to set the record for highest arbitration. As he should, but I mean if you're Detroit, how are you trying to come in low? Detroit's at 19. He's at 29, I think.
00:35:01
Speaker
ah They'll settle. They'll they'll settle. yeah They're going to have to. I mean, they they have to solely just to save the relationship with the player. I mean, you know how arbitration goes. Yeah. They walk into a room, and the player presents a case on why he's good, and the team presents a case on like why he's bad. And I don't know how you could walk into a room with a straight face and tell back-to-back Cy Young winner that there's something wrong with this game.
00:35:21
Speaker
Yeah, unbelievable. I don't know how you could possibly do that. If I'm Scoobble, I'm just walking in with the two Cy Young awards and dropping them on the table for the arbitration. yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's not going to get that far. No. Whatever money was that Soto got, i don't remember. I don't know what the numbers on top of my head. I think he got 20.
00:35:38
Speaker
yeah I think Atani got 20 and he got 21. Probably, yeah, something like that. Soto goes cool, but like 23. Yeah. and then And then he'll go in free and see and get his $600 million. I was going to say, you can tell he's done there. He's not signing there now.
00:35:53
Speaker
But, I mean, you know, the Yankees, like every other team, checked in on him, and they were like, ah yeah, we will have your number one and number two prospect, and that's just to even start a conversation. And the Yankees went, we'll take him in free agency, don't worry.
00:36:07
Speaker
Yeah, let's hope, right? And then Kishun went back to the house and shook his head and said, you better sell more chicken buckets this year. Wait, Mike, you said Soto was 31? 31, and was 32. Wow. Wow.
00:36:20
Speaker
wow He'll get 32. I mean, he deserves every penny. so That was settled. Yeah. Record after a hearing is Vlad Guerrero Jr. 19.9.
00:36:34
Speaker
Oh, okay. I don't say to get to a hearing. There's no way. There's no way in Arbiter he's going to have to go. Because you could point the flaws in Guerrero's game. Yeah. You know, being 82 pounds overweight and being unable to play defense.
00:36:48
Speaker
There's no flaw in Scoobles. There's no flaw in Scoobles, man. There's no flaw. The only thing is, like, oh, most pitchers get Tommy John. You will eventually. Yeah, I mean, all I can think of is this year's salary. I was going to walk in with two Cy Young Awards, drop him on the table.
00:37:04
Speaker
Yeah, he's gone. That'll happen to Skeens in a few years, too. But at least Skeens wanted to be a Yankee, so Yankees can steal him. Yeah, but Skeens, I don't know if he even makes it that far. Yeah.
00:37:16
Speaker
i can't I can't see the Pirates just trading him away, but I guess, I don't know. Hopefully feel Skins is the type where he'll just like go full villain mode. He would. He'll just be like, listen, I am not playing another game for you.
00:37:30
Speaker
I will sit for five years. I don't care. Just a bad look for baseball if he ah if he does get traded. All right. But I'm supposed to get mad at the Dodgers. But again, yeah. I was just saying the same thing, dude. We're supposed to get mad at the Dodgers because the Pirates don't want to spend money when they have the best pitcher. One of the two best pitchers in baseball, they have ah they they have a good staff and they have nobody on the on the field that can swing a bat. not Not one guy that can swing a bat. That's why salary floor is more important, I think. i think a salary Yeah, and then you're going to sit there and tell me that there's no salary cap and that's for running baseball. I mean, dude, get lost.
00:38:06
Speaker
yeah Get a grip. Absolutely right. Sell the teams.
Hall of Fame Voting Insights & Debates
00:38:11
Speaker
Sell the team.
00:38:14
Speaker
All right, Mac, I think you're up, sir. ah Baseball Hall of Fame 2026 went pretty much as expected based on where the tracker was going.
00:38:26
Speaker
There were definitely more voters than there have been. 425 ballots were You needed 319 to get in. Little interesting tidbit, only 5.77 votes per ballot on average. little interesting tidbit only five point seven seven votes per ballot on average Small haul, baby.
00:38:41
Speaker
Checks out our week ballots there. Beltran and Jones get in 84.2%. Andre Jones 78.4%. And then we got some three guys who really rose up. Chase Utley, 19.3% increase. and Love to say it.
00:38:54
Speaker
we get it Andy Pettit went 20.6% up and finished with 48.5%. King Felix broke the record from highest growth percentage in the history of the voting 25.5% and finished with 46.1%. A-Rod modest growth to 40%. Bobby Abreu grew 11%, finished with 30.8%. Jimmy Rollins, 7.4% growth, finished with 25.4%.
00:39:13
Speaker
arod had modest growth to forty percent bobby areou grew eleven percent finished with thirty point eight jimmy rollins seven point four percent growth finisheder twenty five point four Cole Hamels in his first year had 23.8, solid debut for him, but it's a weaker ballot, so I don't really know what to make of that one.
00:39:32
Speaker
Pedroia and Burley both grew about 8% each. Both are hanging around 20%. This Kell is completely stalled, 0.6%, increased with to 14.8%.
00:39:43
Speaker
david wright went up six point seven percent ah to fourteen point eight K-Rod went up 1.6% to 11.8%, and Torrey Hunter went up 3.6% to 8.7%, giving him a little bit of a cushion to not fall behind the 5%.
00:39:59
Speaker
But guys who did get 5%, thank God, Ryan Braun. Thank God. I cannot believe this was even a thought. The 15 writers, are you kidding me? Do you have a brain? People are dumb, man.
00:40:12
Speaker
Like, I'm pro-steroid, and I cannot get behind Ryan Braun. Yeah. Edwin Encarnacion, 1.4%. Sin Choo Choo, 0.7%. Matt Kemp, Hunter Pence, and Rick Porcello each got two votes.
00:40:27
Speaker
We know one Hunter Pence voter, one Rick Porcello voter, and no Matt Kemp voters at this time. Alex Gordon and Nick Marcakis got a vote each. And then Gio Gonzalez, Howie Kendrick, and Daniel Murphy got shut out.
00:40:38
Speaker
So that was the results for the year. um Obviously, we have Beltran and Jones as winners and Manny Ramirez, who fell off the ballot, who I skipped as a loser.
00:40:49
Speaker
But beyond that, I mean, i think the big winner is Chase Utley. Oh, yeah. I mean, shem How are we feeling to say it? i He's the closest to election of all the holdovers.
00:41:03
Speaker
He's just under 60%. He now has the fifth highest vote percentage of all time for anybody outside the hall. Fifth highest ever. Wow. And he's the highest for anyone without a character scandal. It's Bonds, Clemens, Sheffield, Schilling, and Utley.
00:41:18
Speaker
um but i Next year's the year, boys. It's the year. Well, I don't want to be there yet. Let's talk a little bit about that. So I i do think he's going to get in at some point. I want you to be cautiously optimistic. I want to set your expectations low.
00:41:34
Speaker
Here's why. According to Jason Stark, actually from today, next year is going to be the first election since 2004 where no holdovers coming in with 60%. Bruce Suter had 53.6% that year. He got in in 2006, took him two years.
00:41:50
Speaker
This will also be the first election since 2001 where there will be ah only one holdover above 50%. That was Jim Rice, 2001. two thousand and one He didn't get in until 2009.
00:42:03
Speaker
With that being said, the voters are different now and what we learned with Maurer, Sabathia, and now Andre Jones, that sometimes these things can happen a year or two faster than you think. And with that being said, I will go on record and say I think Chase Utley is going to get in next year, but I'm not super-duper confident in that.
00:42:23
Speaker
I just think the ballot is so horrifically weak that if he doesn't get in, and nobody's getting in. Well, what's huge for Utley is that with Andre Jones getting in, that's huge. I think Jones getting in and Jeff Kent getting in. Because Andre Jones, the first guy. What are you yelling about over there?
00:42:44
Speaker
Andre Jones, the first guy to get in by the writers with under 2,000 hits since Ralph Kiner. Oh, wow. Now, keep that in mind. We're three podcasts away from talking about a season that Ralph Kiner played in.
00:42:57
Speaker
It won't be his World Series. But that's how old we're talking about. That's how long it's been since Chase – and Andrew Jones broke that mold. So that's humongous for Utley, and it's also huge for a couple of my other winners, Dustin Pedroia and David Wright. Yeah, but Utley had an almost 20 more awards than Ralph Kiner.
00:43:16
Speaker
He did, but look at Ralph Kiner's home runs. I know. Well, look at how many years Ralph Kiner played. That's what mattered back then. Zach wouldn't like him. Nope. No, he would not. No. But – Pedroia and Wright both grew 5% to 10%, which even though I didn't vote for them, I was deep down hoping for a little more than that.
00:43:35
Speaker
um I am interested to see what happens now that Andrew knocked down that first bowling pin, and now Buster Posey is going to come in next year and knock all of them down. for the 2000 hit look.
00:43:46
Speaker
But the big issue that's making me hesitate is that both of them struggle with first year voters. um Dustin Bejoria went 27.8% with them. David Wright only went 22.2% with them.
00:43:57
Speaker
So they're kind of in line with where they're performing, maybe a little bit higher, but not by much. Where guys like Andrew Jones went 90%. with first-time voters. Chase Utley went 83% with first-time voters. Beltran went unanimous with public first-time voters.
00:44:15
Speaker
They were the difference in this year's ballot. But I don't know if – I mean, the good news for Wright Pedroia is that they have room to grow now, and I think it might take a couple years. I think once Posey gets in, it might knock the door down for a lot of people.
00:44:29
Speaker
I don't think it's really a valid comparison considering Posey's a catcher. Posey will get in next year. That's what I'm hearing. What? Posey will get in next year. That's what I'm hearing. Posey is going to get in whether we like it or not. and we can We'll debate that, I'm sure. If you guys want to debate that now, I'm happy to. I think after DeMauer getting in, Posey has a good chance.
00:44:51
Speaker
I do too. and he finished The only thing is, Mauer is very convinced. its i Personally, I wouldn't vote for Poster Posey. Mr. Small Hall over here.
00:45:03
Speaker
Correct. I just think he's like, I go back and forth because on one hand, I feel like 1500 hits is way, way too low. Like it's not even like we just knocked down the door for 2000 hits. And I think it was a stupid mindset to begin with that you need 2000 hits to be looked at by the writers.
00:45:21
Speaker
But 1500 just so 158 home runs, I get he's a catcher, but at what point are we even going to look, are we just going to say the stats, like career accumulation doesn't matter at all anymore? Right.
00:45:36
Speaker
But then on the other hand, he's an MVP, seven-time All-Star, and was the best hitter on a dynasty. Career accumulation, you say? first So does that no longer matter? But I think Posey is so historically significant.
00:45:52
Speaker
Where are you going? I was going to say in the same in the same way that I talk about Utley that Buster Posey was the best catcher in baseball for a five to ten year period.
00:46:05
Speaker
I agree with that. I think that's Hall of Fame worthy. What's the comparison with him and Salve? I don't know off the top of my head. It's pretty close. I mean, Buster Posey was a better hitter for average. Salve has more gold gloves. How much you put stock in that is up to you. Right.
00:46:22
Speaker
Salvador Perez obviously hit a lot more home runs. Yes. um But it's it's going to look a lot like, oh, career stats, Salve crushes them. Rate stats, Posey crushes them. And that's a good point.
00:46:33
Speaker
That's exactly what we have. Salvador Perez has almost double the home runs in 400 more games, has 300 more runs batted in. Posey's slash line is completely better than Perez. Perez is longer and has a significantly lower war, though.
00:46:46
Speaker
Perez has nine all-star teams to Posey's seven. Perez has a World Series MVP. Posey does not, but he does have three titles and was... i I think it's fair to say he was the best hitter on those three teams. probably Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:59
Speaker
You know, you talk about Perez like he was this crazy home run hitter. He really isn't. Or a catcher who is. I mean, he's the same amount of home runs as Posey did, except that one year that Perez hit 48 for whatever reason.
00:47:11
Speaker
But he's like ninth all time for home runs for catchers. Because he's played a long time. Has he? He's played a while, yeah. He's not anywhere near 200 games yet. 2,000 games yet, rather. 1,700.
00:47:25
Speaker
two thousand a i rather its seventeen hundred Right, so he's got two seasons. don't know if he's going to get there. don't know, 300 home runs as a catcher. That's a lot. That's a lot. as so As a player in general, it's not a lot.
00:47:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:41
Speaker
He had 20 a year. Except the one year, he had 48.
00:47:46
Speaker
Let's see, home runs, descending home runs. yeah yeah Him and Yanni are good defensively, you know obviously, for a while. But when is Yanni going to get there? I wouldn't put Perez in the Hall of Fame, and I'm...
00:47:59
Speaker
I'm still torn on Yachty. Yeah. I'm a yes on Yachty. I don't know if I can. I'll say that now. i'm ah I'm a definite yes on Yachty.
00:48:11
Speaker
Interesting. When is he on? I'm probably a yes on Posey. Really? But I go on and off on it. He's just too historically significant of a player to not.
00:48:23
Speaker
i mean When you're the clearly the best hitter on three titles... That's got to matter. and MVP batting title is a catcher. i i understand the stats are low, and i it makes me think about it too. It gives me pause.
00:48:40
Speaker
i'm I'm not saying I'm going to do it. I'm saying I'm leaning toward it. I'd say right now I'm at about 70% toward doing it. Wow.
00:48:52
Speaker
wow Mike, you really got me thinking on this because I just pulled a Posada again. And that compensates me. I know. and And I'm not against Posada being in either.
00:49:06
Speaker
But I think that's going to be a conversation we're going to have to have, especially now yeah that we're clearly redefining hall of Fame pitcher standards. And I want to get to Felix in a bit too. But you know what are we going to do about the David Cohns? What are we going to do about the Johan Santanas? What are we going to do about the Roy Oswaltz? What are we going to do about the Brett Saberhagans?
00:49:25
Speaker
These guys who, by this current standard, would be getting a lot more consideration than they did.
00:49:36
Speaker
The writers are going – not the writers. The Hall of Fame is going to have to figure that out because their time on the ballot is done. yeah know like We're looking right now at Buster Posey, a guy like Jorge Posada needs to be looked at. And Joe Maurer got in, which should open up that door.
00:49:50
Speaker
So there's going to lot of like retroactive questions. and there has been There is precedent for that um in the nineteen eighty s Back then, the Hall of Famers voted for the era committee, and they didn't like the results. Obviously, the Hall of Famers didn't want to put anybody in because they wanted to keep their club exclusive.
00:50:06
Speaker
So they decided we're going to have the writers re-vote on like 12 guys. Dick Allen and Ron Santo were some of them. They still didn't get in through the writers, but they gave them like a second chance on the writers' ballot.
00:50:20
Speaker
There might need to be something like that. If this continues. Yeah. because Cause if we're lowering the standard. Right. No, you're right. Cause my, my current reaction right now is if the older guys aren't in, I'll just vote. you I would just vote no to keep it all. right instead Yeah.
00:50:37
Speaker
The problem with that is, is that no one's getting those career numbers anymore. Yeah. no famous So like we're, we're adapting to put in a guy like Felix. Right. Which seems to be the trajectory that it's going to go. Yeah.
00:50:50
Speaker
But if you don't do that, you're going to have Kershaw, Greinke, Scherzer, Verlander, and then nobody else. this is This is why I make the argument that I just made for Posey and I make for Utley that the guy was the best player his position for a 10-year period.
00:51:05
Speaker
m For a decade. That's Hall Fame worthy. I look forward to that. Now, I think you can kind of you can question that Posey was not for a 10-year period. I think you can yeah but legitimately question that. I don't think you can question that for Utley.
00:51:20
Speaker
I still... Robinson Cano is the one there, but I guess everything. think I get it. Cano was in a different league, and Cano did Royce. Yeah, like I... That's my rebuttal to that topic. so But I do agree, statistically, they're all the same on the same level. Well, I would say right now that Vlad Guerrero Jr. has been the best first baseman in the league for a five-year period.
00:51:41
Speaker
Yeah. Unquestionably? You had one dud year in those five, but yeah, I would. I'm okay with that. I'm okay with this statement.
00:51:53
Speaker
I don't like Vlad, personally. don't like him. But as a player, he's very good, and I could get behind that. Right. yeah What about Lindor?
00:52:06
Speaker
No, first base. First base. No, I'm saying like i'm saying applying Josh's argument. Oh, I see. I think there have been arc better seasons.
00:52:17
Speaker
Trey Turner had a better year. Turner. Yeah. I will say this. seven i don't think i don't think he's the undeniable best shortstop in the league. Ketel Marte.
00:52:29
Speaker
Ooh, he's a good one. basic base Yeah, he's been the best second baseman for at least three years ago. I can get behind that. Yeah. If he didn't play in Arizona, he'd get a lot more talk. Yes. It's fair. It's a good pick.
00:52:42
Speaker
So, ah I like your theory. I do. I just... If we're going to apply it to Utley, we got to apply it to other people. That's... yeah I mean, there was a level of like, oh, the position just is terrible for 10 years, obviously. Right. But, yeah, I mean, if you're the best player for a decade, I think you should have a legitimate... There should be a legitimate conversation.
00:53:02
Speaker
I'm all for that. Um, circling back though, I, my worry with it going back to like the lowering of the standards is I feel like I agree. We need it for pitchers, which is what we were talking about with like the other guys.
00:53:17
Speaker
Do we really need it for hitters? That was where I don't really, personally, I don't think so. Cause you're going to, I don't think we need it. Like Judge coming in um Who else is like – Guys like Freddie Freeman are going to have the stats. Nolan Arenado is going to have the stats.
00:53:32
Speaker
Jose Altuve is going to have the stats. You can have your guys that had the big primes, yo know Trout, Otani, Judge, who may not have those career numbers. They're a different breed. J-Ram. Like you're going to have guys – Yeah, Jose Reyes will have the stats. I agree.
00:53:46
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. You don't need to lower the standards for haters just yet. So I think people are seeing that with Felix and like, oh my God, we can do it for all peak guys. And I don't know about that.
00:53:57
Speaker
I think need to lower the hits number, maybe 2,500. Sure. Yeah. I mean, then we're looking at guys like Andrew McCutcheon who might get there.
00:54:11
Speaker
I'm a no there, but he's going to be a compiler. I promise. That's a stack compiler. Yeah. Oh, I don't don don't disagree with you on that one. Yeah, Kutch just hangs around. He going be the Jimmy Rollins in 10 years. He stuck around. He was really good until he went to the Yankees and they made him cut the locks.
00:54:27
Speaker
And then, I don't know, the magic. He must have had magic in them locks because it was over. The Jimmy Rollins stuff. was not the same. I mean, he wasn't the same player when the Yankees got him anyway, but no he was not the same player after that.
00:54:41
Speaker
No, he's a no from me. That's a no from me, dog. Can we talk about King Felix for a minute, though? Yeah, go ahead. about them Growing 25.5%, unprecedented.
00:54:53
Speaker
Approaching 50%, obviously huge. I mean, this like I said, this thing happened faster than we think. I'm going to say 60% next year. couple modest gains from there with a crowded ballot. I think he gets in by 2030.
00:55:09
Speaker
So my question is, Zach. as Why is Cole Hamels not receiving the same love? I'll get to that in a second. Zach, no can I get a verbal confirmation that you will vote for King Felix next year?
00:55:23
Speaker
yeah Yes, if you listened to the last part. Yes. you you were You said you were leaning that way. Can I get a verbal confirmation? just so Right now, as of today, i would vote for Felix. So, yes.
00:55:36
Speaker
Wow. Wow. So he does gain a vote and he will be a championship of us hall of famer, hopefully in the class. love to say it As long as Josh or I don't drop him, of course.
00:55:48
Speaker
Well, now Mike to throw it back at you. Would you still vote for Hamels next year? I don't know, and I will answer that. Oh. It's what I said on the podcast last year.
00:55:59
Speaker
It's what I said on the podcast, not last year. Well, technically last year. It was 2025, and we did it. But Felix and Hamels have almost identical stats, right? It was the question that I asked Zach when we segued into King Felix, and it's it is it did make the pod. You can relook. Zach, if Cole Hamels won a Cy Young, would you vote for him?
00:56:21
Speaker
And I said yes. Cole Hamels might be a Cy Young short. And the problem with it is with Hamels is I'm looking at who's coming on the docket in the next couple years. And i started thinking, who would I rather see in the Hall of Fame?
00:56:34
Speaker
Cole Hamels or Jon Lester? I don't really know. Cole Hamels and Adam Wainwright? I think I go Wainwright. I know the answer. it I think I go David Price. and know they did price i do David Price had a great peak, dude. My answer my answer is Cole Hamels, Cole Hamels, David Price.
00:56:52
Speaker
David Price. What? Yeah. Go look at David Price's stats, Zach. Yeah. David Price. I don't know you understand how good of player he was. I'm about to go look. I did not think that. So that's the problem is I don't feel David Price is a Hall of Famer.
00:57:08
Speaker
I don't feel Adam Wainwright is a Hall of Famer. Really? You don't think David Price is a Hall of Famer? Not at all. Interesting. Not even slightly. They're a lot better than I thought they were. i disagree with that.
00:57:19
Speaker
But he's going to make me think. But the problem is what are we going to do? Put everybody from that generation in the Hall of Fame? That's what I'm saying. Then it's like going to put everybody in. Hamels is going to be a bowling pin that knocks down too many other bowling pins.
00:57:32
Speaker
And that's my concern is that, you know, end with that what are we going to have 40 pitchers from this generation? Josh is a big hall guy. Like, I thought I was the big haul guy here. Okay, so the thing is sort of thing is, Mike, we just had the conversation. If Cole Hamels had a Cy Young, would you vote for him?
00:57:51
Speaker
And the answer was yes. David Price has the same number as Cole Hamels with a Cy Young. So now you're going to tell me no? King Felix has 2,500 strikeouts. na but and I'm not talking about King Felix.
00:58:04
Speaker
This is the oven timer all over again. we're We're just talking about Cole Hamels. We're talking about Cole Hamels and David Price. We just said if Cole Hamels had a Cy Young, that he would definitely get a vote.
00:58:19
Speaker
That is fair, yes. I mean, like I said, I'm looking at it. The other thing is, though, Cole Hamels has, I'm going to throw your argument out there, an extra 33% war. or' Sorry, an extra 50% war than David Price.
00:58:31
Speaker
This is true. So yeah he's not Cole Hamels. Mm-hmm. So what are we going do? Put every guy with a Cy Young in. 40 war seems low, right? Like 40 war is kind of low. And listen, there are guys with 40 war who are deserving. I just never really felt that way with Price. Maybe it was a Tampa Bay bias. I don't know.
00:58:49
Speaker
um Two ERA titles does stick out. I will say that. um he He was bad, though, once he left Tampa. Am I wrong? like I didn't think he was that good. He fell off after that. he had one year where he was in detroit in Detroit and Boston, and he played well. and Then after that, he fell off like right at 30.
00:59:08
Speaker
So the problem is how many these guys can we really put in? And as the ball is going get more crowded, I really don't want to be dropping people if I can avoid it You know, Wainwright, Madison Baumgartner, I probably would want in over these guys.
00:59:24
Speaker
cause that i insane um that's thing I like both of those guys. I really loved watching them pitch growing up, but I would not vote for either of them. But you'd vote for David Price. Or Baumgartner, but I would vote for David Price. What?
00:59:39
Speaker
This is wild to me. This is me doing very little research. I i was going to say, yeah. um'm Adam Wainwright has four top three Cy Young finishes in a five-minute. Yeah, but my all right are we going to reward a guy for having a good four years and then falling off a cliff?
00:59:55
Speaker
Did he really fall off a cliff? No, yeah i'm looking at David Price. he definite off the cliff He's had seasons of four worn above, four. 4.7, 6.6, 4.4, 6.3, then nothing even close.
01:00:09
Speaker
And then I can't i can say yes to that. now I'm going to throw another name in the battle. All right. Another guy who's coming up in two years. Corey Kluber. No, no, no. Out of all these guys we're talking about, he's the only one with two Cy Young. He's Lincecum. He's Lincecum. No. He has three other top three finishes as well. So he's not Lincecum.
01:00:26
Speaker
Higher than Lincecum. He led the league in war twice. Led the league in wins twice. Has an ERA title. Led the league in whip once. Am I going to reward a guy for a good five-year peak and that's it? No. Right. Which brings us back to Felix. Yeah.
01:00:39
Speaker
But his his overall stats are better than i would. I mean, off the top of my head, I would think they're better than those guys. Okay, so my difference between a guy like Kluber and a guy like Felix is that ah Kluber had a five-year peak, and then every other year of his career was just hot trash. I mean, just absolute godless trash. And at least Felix was an average starter.
01:00:59
Speaker
Kluber was an awful player that you didn't even want on your team that you wanted to DFA every other year of his career. That is fair. Now, but my point here is not that Corey Kluber is a Hall of Famer and not that David Price is a Hall of Famer or Adam Wainwright. My point is, though, are any of these guys clearly separating from this pack of, like, 10 guys? You might have a one guy go the other ah the opposite way, going below the pack, but is anybody clearly separating themselves from above that pack? Because otherwise, you're voting for a lot of pitchers here.
01:01:29
Speaker
I see what you're saying, Mike. So, like, Felix is the pe like the pick of the litter out of all guys. agree. Yeah. I agree. Felix is number one on this list. If I had to vote for a one, yeah, I'd vote for Felix and nobody else, probably. Or maybe Amos.
01:01:40
Speaker
And you're going how much? Okay. Maybe. wow Not David Price. Certainly not David Price. Honestly, David Price, like can I'm looking at. I didn't really account for that. But this is my argument with the relievers. Like, I looked at all these stats, and I thought Jansen had the best a combination of overall stats and rate stats compared to Kimbrell and K-Rod. So if I had to pick, like we were saying this, I think he's the pick of the letter. I'd pick Jansen. But you're saying you'd pick Kimbrell, I guess.
01:02:05
Speaker
I would. Yeah. Kimbrell was more dominant. And there's no there's no question about that. you know Nine-time All-Star has of four top ten Cy Young finishes. Actually, five top ten Cy Young finishes is a closer.
01:02:18
Speaker
yeah But we can see it's four times. Maybe see that I mean maybe have to reconsider that. but like I know he had a bad second half, but now Andrew Jones opens the door for guys who fell off after 30.
01:02:33
Speaker
i'm yeah Listen, I'm just saying. I know. I'm saying, a dude, I've been the small haul guy. It's coming back. So all these guys – and i'm not I'm still not a small haul guy, I would say, because like there's a lot of guys that we disagree on. But yeah I think – I think we're in danger of maybe opening up the floodgates too much. How far?
01:02:52
Speaker
Yeah. How long is a peak that you are willing to consider, I guess, is the question. Because like we were just chatting five, like, you know, David Price, five years, four years. I think that's too little.
01:03:04
Speaker
For a pitcher, I i think yeah I'm more easy than I need eight years and then mediocrity. Right. Yeah. and That's something I can get behind, I think.
01:03:16
Speaker
Right. So Felix would fit that bill. Yeah. Yes. But did Hamels have enough peak? they that I don't know. but Like that's what so very long winded 20 minute answer to your question.
01:03:29
Speaker
That's my answer. that my My answer to Hamels is that the war backs it up that he was an average pitcher at best for the rest of his career. And then you add in the playoff success. And I still don't know if I'm you know going to vote against Hamels next year.
01:03:44
Speaker
It's just something that's been on my mind because there's a lot of guys coming up in the next three years. all of Every single name we mentioned that isn't active is coming up in three years. I think, and I'm pretty sure this was something that you had said, that a guy has to do something pretty egregious to lose my vote once I voted for him.
01:04:00
Speaker
Yes, but I'm also understanding the fact that I'm going to be voting 10 very soon, and it's going to be a numbers game. You're going to winning 10 next year? Not next year. i was going to say. But like this year I voted nine, including Utley and Hamels, right?
01:04:16
Speaker
I lose three because Manny aged off and the two got in. I'm at six. After that, I'm at eight, assuming I vote for Posey and Lester, let's just say. Right? Right. The following year, Pujols, Cano, and Yaddy come on.
01:04:30
Speaker
I'm at 11. going to vote for one of those guys. Yeah. Yeah. I'm at 11 if no one gets in. And then after that, Miguel Cabrera, Zach Greinke, Joey Votto joined the party.
01:04:41
Speaker
Right. So i'm it's not that it's being egregious to lose my vote. It's that he's not going to make my 10. I can tell you right now. And that's when he loses your vote. years What? And that's when he would lose your vote, not now. Well, that's not his fault. And then the other issue is with other guys joining the party. And remember, Hamels was a very hesitant yes at the time.
01:05:04
Speaker
It was not a like I'm walking in. Yes. It was literally a buzzer beater at the end. Screw it. I but i actually use the words screw it.
01:05:14
Speaker
So it's it's not a resounding of a yes as I would have maybe be had. Yeah. But the other thing is with that is Andy Pettit, who we didn't talk about.
01:05:31
Speaker
No. Who I voted for. And a lot of the articles are hyping him up, thinking he has a real chance to get in after this 20% jump. I'm not buying it at all. Josh, you're the anti-steroid guy. Does Pettit fit your Bonds-Clemens thing, or are you just not voting him for on-field reasons?
01:05:49
Speaker
It fits the Bonds-Clemens thing. Right. so and And those people are not going to just change their mind. Exactly. So Jason Stark and Anthony Calumas, one of the tracker guys, did the data on Bonds-Clemons voters who voted for Pettit.
01:06:05
Speaker
less ah Just over half of them who voted for Bonds and Clemens voted for Pettit. So he's not even convincing the steroid guys. Not enough. Non-Bonds-Clemons voters, or as I call them, the Josh voters, he got 29%. enough.
01:06:18
Speaker
not enough Even worse, there are 17 public Big Papi Yes voters that voted this year. Three of those 17 voted for Pettit. He has no chance of... That's insane. It's a Big Papi thing. I think people could just pretend he didn't do it and pretend that the Mitchell Report doesn't actually exist. but Those are people who didn't vote for Bonds and Clemens but voted for Papi.
01:06:40
Speaker
yeah And they're not voting for Pettit. True. So Pettit has no shot in hell. Just remember, just remember guys, that The writers are actually dumber than us. Yes.
01:06:52
Speaker
Yes. Like significantly. Yeah. All the time we spent just debating that. Yeah. Yeah. We spent more time in the ballot than they did this whole year. And just this one podcast. Yeah.
01:07:04
Speaker
Yeah. Somebody picked up the ballot and went, man, I like that Hunter Pence guy. I'm going vote for him. I'm not going to look up how bad he was compared to everybody else. in this I like Porcello because he's from Jersey and I'm from Jersey. That that was awful. That's awful.
01:07:18
Speaker
That's the dumbest shit I've heard. Sorry. you said You're not going stop me from voting for Brett Gardner next year for the same. Oh, I will kill you you're not. me It is happening. The way it's not happening is if he doesn't make the ballot. If he makes the ballot, he will get a vote. Are you joking?
01:07:35
Speaker
That's gross. You should be ashamed of my ballot. And I want to shout out a Yankee who represented the little guy little guy who had a lot of anger. The little guy. you should be disgusted.
01:07:47
Speaker
I want to give him my vote. No. Bang, bang. Bang, bang. With all that being said, the biggest loser on this ballot is Francisco Rodriguez.
01:07:58
Speaker
Oh, shocking. Yeah. would be Funny because last year I had him as the biggest winner. So, Choshi, you never really know what the stuff, the writers. You know, Billy Wagner gets in. Doesn't matter. He goes 1.6%. The only guy who grew less than him was Omar Vizquel. Yeah.
01:08:12
Speaker
um The only thing I can really explain is the off-field issues, but Andre Jones was able to overcome that, so I don't really get that. Maybe relievers who already have haters like Zach to begin with are going to a tougher time when they have off-field issues.
01:08:25
Speaker
I can't really explain it, but we discussed how big of a ballot this was. The average had 5.8. He remains under 12% with everybody pretty much having room on their ballot.
01:08:36
Speaker
And this was year four for him. Year four for Wagner, he had 16.7. And then the following year, he almost doubled it. But that ballot he had 16.7 with, four guys got in the Hall of Fame. Bonds, Clemens, Schilling were still on the ballot. And a lot of guys who got in since then were on it.
01:08:54
Speaker
I'm ready to call his candidacy dead in the water. I'm still going vote for him because I'm spiteful. But he's not getting in, unfortunately. And he should. And the other biggest loser is literally everybody else we haven't talked about.
01:09:09
Speaker
They're all dead. They have no chance. A radio grew 11%. That's not enough. Get Jimmy Rollins out of here. Jimmy Rollins, 25%, not enough. Thank you.
01:09:20
Speaker
With the way the ballot is coming up, it's not going to happen. Thank God. oh Those are my losers. um The Hall of Fame did kind of find the equalizer to an extent. The only guys that are holdovers that I really see having any sort of path are Utley and Felix.
01:09:37
Speaker
People are going to say, Petit, I don't see it. And that wraps up our 1943 episode of Championship or a Bust. Our election cycle is now over. I cannot wait to complain about this more for the next 10 months until it starts all up again. We'll see you guys real soon.
01:09:54
Speaker
Peace.