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Episode 54 - 1944 World Series- The Trolley Series
30 Plays1 month ago
The gang discuss the first and only all St. Louis matchup in the World Series as the Cardinals beat the Browns in 6 games. Most of the big stars in the game were off fighting in the war, which is why a team like the Brown's won a pennant in the first place.
What does Tony Clark stepping down mean for the impending lockout? What can the MLB learn from this Clase investigation and being in bed with gambling organizations?
All this and more in the latest episode of Championship or Bust!
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Transcript
Addressing the Miami Incident
00:00:03
Speaker
Okay, as Nick Castellanos once said, okay, apparently I need to address the Miami incident. As one my friends on the team has informed me, there is an article wanting to come out without my consent, and there's a deep drive to left field from Castellanos over your home run. I'm going to make it a 4-0 ballgame. What's everybody?
City on City World Series Introduction
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of Championship or a Bust. We have a little version of City on City World Series here for you tonight.
00:00:28
Speaker
Josh, let's get to it.
Historical Context: Cardinals vs. Browns
00:00:31
Speaker
City on city, indeed, the St. Louis Cardinals against the St. Louis Browns. The third time the World Series will be played in a singular park. And because of this, even during the wartime, they were able to follow the usual 2-3-2 home schedule instead of the 3-4 home schedule they had been using because of travel restrictions.
00:00:49
Speaker
So this Cardinals team was that same powerhouse team they've been the last two years, becoming the first National League team to win 100 games in three consecutive seasons. And the Browns, well, they were a team.
00:01:01
Speaker
ah They benefited greatly by a lot of the really good players at the time being overseas for the war. ah This was this team's, the St. Louis Browns' only pennant in their 52 years that they spent in St. Louis. The team hit a measly.252. They had a singular batter hit above.300 and hit.301.
00:01:24
Speaker
And they had one guy who had 20 home runs and drove in more than.85. Now, when you say that, just keep in mind, we do when he yeah is he a Hall of Famer? We usually talk about guys who have 335 career batting averages, and people are like, no.
00:01:39
Speaker
They had one guy on the team hit 301. Continue. yeah So, yeah, they were ah not a powerhouse, to say the least. But they got hot at the right time. They won 11 of their last 12 games and won the American League by a singular game, finishing 89-65.
World Series Highlights: Cardinals and Browns
00:01:55
Speaker
This would be the least amount of wins for an AL pennant-winning team until 1987, when the Twins won only 85 games. wow ah So yes, a very stark contrast to the Cardinals, who still had of Famer Stan Musial, and not a Hall of Famer, but 1944 MVP Marty Marion.
00:02:15
Speaker
So getting into the series, correct Game 1 was a tie game going into the fourth inning, when the Browns would strike first. After two-out single, George McQuinn hit a two-run homer, giving the Browns a 2-0 lead.
00:02:28
Speaker
And that would be the only hits that Mark Cooper would allow for the entire game, but the Cardinals were unable to give him any run support, only able to score a singular run in the bottom the ninth inning on a sack fly. The Browns would take this game 2-1, thanks to an excellent outing by Danny Galehouse, giving up just one run on seven hits, and the Browns winning game one.
00:02:47
Speaker
So game two. So the Cardinals open to scoring this time in a bottom and a third. After a single and an error, Augie Berramo hit an RBI groundout. The Carl's would add another run in the fourth after a walk, a single, and an error loaded the bases and a sack fly pushed across their second under anded unearned run of the game.
00:03:04
Speaker
In the top of a seventh, the Browns would finally strike. After a one-out single, Red Hayworth would double in a run, and then pinch hitter Freddie Mancuso would single and Hayworth tie the game. The game would stay tied until the bottom of the 11th inning. Ray Sanders would lead the inning off with a single, advance a second on a sack bunt. The next batter was intentionally walked, trying to set up a double play, but pinch hitter Ken Odia would single in the winning run to walk it off and tie the series at one.
00:03:29
Speaker
Game three, so the Cardinals strike first in the top of the first. After an error got a man on and hit the scoring position, Walker Cooper singled in the unearned run. The Browns strike back into Bob III with a two-out rally. With two outs and no one on, the Browns would hit five consecutive singles, the last three each scoring a run. The starter Ted Wilkes was pulled, and Frey Schmidt entered the game.
00:03:49
Speaker
And he started by intentionally walking about her to load the bases, trying get the force out, and then throwing a wild pitch to give up the fourth run of the inning. Hooray! So he was finally able to get a ground out to get the inning over and stop the bleeding. But the Cardinals' bats, they wouldn't wake up until the top of the seventh inning when a lead when they load off the inning with a single. The runner advanced on an error, and Marty Marion singled in a run. The Browns would strike back in the bottom of that inning. When a pass ball scored a run, followed by George McQuinn's RBI double, making a 6-2 game, and that was how it would end, Jack Kramer gave up two runs on seven hits, striking out ten to give the Browns a 2-1 series lead.
00:04:28
Speaker
Game four saw the Cardinals jump out to an early lead in the top of the first, thanks to a stand-usual two-run home run. In the top the third, and They had add more when Walker Cooper singled in a run with two outs and a race hander's reach on error where another run would score to make it 4-0.
00:04:42
Speaker
Marty Marion doubled in one more in the top of the sixth. The Browns would finally get on the board in the bottom the eighth when Chet Labs hit into a double play with runners on the corners and no outs and a runner from third scoring.
00:04:53
Speaker
That's all the Browns could get against Harry Breachin. As Harry Breschen went the distance, giving up one run, even though he allowed nine hits and four walks, somehow limited to damage, the Cardinals would take Game 4, and tie the series at 2.
00:05:09
Speaker
Game 5 was a scoreless game into the 6th inning when Ray Sanders hit a solo home run to put the Cardinals ahead. In the top the 8th, Danny Littweiler would hit a solo home run, again, to extend the Cardinals' lead to 2. And that is all they would need, Mark Cooper throwing a complete game shutout, putting the Cardinals 1-1 away.
00:05:26
Speaker
Game six saw the Browns strike first and the top of second when Chet Labs tripled, then scored on George McQuinn's single. Cars will strike back in the bottom the fourth. Went walk, a single, and a field of choice ground ball. That should have been a double play, but resulted in just one out and an error tied the game. After a foul pop, that would have been the inning ender.
00:05:44
Speaker
ah There was back-to-back RBI singles from Emile Verband and Max Lanier, putting the Cardinals up 3-1. Max Lanier and Ted Wilkes would lock down for the Cardinals from there. Wilkes got Lanier out of a one-out, second-and-third jam and a sixth, retiring all 11 batters he faced to finish the game. The pitchers were complaining to give one run on three hits. The Cardinals taking Game 6, and the series
00:06:07
Speaker
This was the first World Series where a neither team was credited with a stolen base. How exciting. Wow. Maybe we should make the bases bigger. Don't tell that to Rob Manfred. He'll take you serious. Yeah.
00:06:21
Speaker
So another fact about this World Series is actually the St. Louis Browns are the first team that we've had to date that did not have a Hall of Famer playing in the series. Yeah.
00:06:33
Speaker
Not a powerhouse to say the least. Only World Series team winner or loser so far without a Hall of Fame player or manager. Because there was there was one time I think John McGraw was the manager and he was the only Hall of Famer or Connie Mack might have been as a player. So this is the only time where not a single person affiliated with a team player or a manager has a plaque in Cooperstown.
00:06:54
Speaker
But we do have umpire Bill McGowan. Now, they're... Stop me for a minute. But you know there are some fun facts about Bill McGowan here. Yay. I say that he's kind of like a Bill Clem type in terms of just like some random interesting tidbits or a Cal Hubbard. So Bill McGowan actually, I'll start from like the least exciting to maybe the most.
00:07:17
Speaker
um He founded the second umpiring school in the United States. So I guess back then they got pretty widespread, but he was the second one to do it. Secondly, he actually served in World War one So we're talking about all the guys in World War II. He's umpiring series in World War II. But he actually served a year in World War one Can't really find what he did, but he did serve.
00:07:40
Speaker
And then he was back to umpiring baseball. I think he served in 1918, and he was back in baseball in 1919, presumably part of the Black Sox scandal before he got into the major leagues. So...
00:07:53
Speaker
Ted Williams gave him the nickname number one because Ted Williams firmly believed that he was the best umpire during Ted Williams' career. so Imagine what it was like having an umpire that was actually respected.
00:08:07
Speaker
Now, what's actually yeah fitting with that is you know Ted Williams was a big vocal point of the Veterans Committee for a while. you know The story is basically that he kept Gil Hodges out of the Hall of Fame for like 20 years because um Roy Campanella was supposed to serve on a committee and he couldn't get there because he was paralyzed and like they he wouldn't let him vote over the phone.
00:08:29
Speaker
So Hodges fell one vote short like 30 years before he actually got in. So Ted Williams probably had a pretty strong say in this, I would assume. um But yeah, Bill McGowan, Hall of Fame umpire.
00:08:42
Speaker
So as I said before, the losing Browns, nobody, not a single one. And we will have a series like that as we get further into the future, like, you know, way, way, way down the line. Maybe we'll get to a point where we're covering active players and no one's in yet.
00:08:57
Speaker
But one day, we're no one near that right now. ah But like two or three years out. Yeah. A couple years out. You know, like, I mean, you know, Clayton Kershaw will probably be playing in one of these pretty soon.
00:09:09
Speaker
ah Winning St. Louis Cardinals, manager Billy Southworth is his third consecutive World Series appearance as a manager, and it's his second ring. He now has three total rings between his playing career and his managerial career. um Ennis Slaughter's on the team but didn't play. He was fighting.
00:09:26
Speaker
And Sam Uziel, the only Hall of Famer in this series. So a very weak Hall of Fame segment, but we can pretty much understand why. He hit 304 with an 882 OPS, went 7 for 23 with a homer, two doubles and two runs batted in. I'm actually going to pivot for a second here that I didn't expect to do, but I'm starting to talk myself into it.
00:09:48
Speaker
So just hear me out, boys. We have no Hall of Famers to do anyone new with. Take a look at Vern Stevens for me. Take a look what you think. I didn't write anything down for this.
00:10:00
Speaker
V-E-R-N-S-T-E-P-H-E-N-S. Now, his career, his milestones are weak. He stopped playing at the age of 34. So we're kind of looking at like a David Wright, Dustin Pedroia type-ish career.
00:10:16
Speaker
But I feel kind of remiss if I don't acknowledge him. um He had 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 top finishes. three top five and MVP finishes. Led the league in runs batted in three times. Led the league in home runs once with 24, but he did hit more than that three other times. Has a 119 career OPS plus and has seven all-star teams, but in two other years when he didn't make the all-star team, he finished fourth and sixth in MVP voting.
00:10:45
Speaker
So we're looking at a nine-year legitimate peak as a really good player. Is he a Hall of Famer though?
00:10:55
Speaker
I just like to point out, imagine hitting 159 RBIs while scoring 113 times and coming in seventh in MVP voting. Yeah. yeah That's part of why I wanted to throw this out there. I'm looking at a couple different things. and I'm going to point out really why I talked about him.
00:11:14
Speaker
He won a hundred times that season. Is this because he's playing with guys like Musial and stuff like that where he's not even going to be considered? So at this he was on the Browns. Yeah.
00:11:26
Speaker
Well, he was on Boston. He was on the Red Sox that year. Yeah. So he was on the St. Louis Browns, the Red Sox, Chicago White Sox, then back to the Browns, then Baltimore, and then Chicago. that i was going to say Ted Williams. he was Yeah, he's going to be in the league, and he's going to win the MVP or be up there every year. So that makes sense. Yeah.
00:11:45
Speaker
Right. yeah ted Yeah, Ted Williams only also had 159 RBIs that year while scoring 151s and winning MVP. So yeah. Good Lord. I can't imagine why he didn't win MVP that year because Ted Williams does exist.
00:11:58
Speaker
Yeah. So in an 11-year peak, it doesn't sound like a lot, but he had a 42 war in that time with over 1,000 runs batted in in 11 years. Wow.
00:12:08
Speaker
No, it's respectable. I wouldn't vote him in, but it's a respectable career, especially playing around all those guys. going to be pretty cool. Yeah, I definitely wanted to throw his name out there. Josh, what do you think?
00:12:19
Speaker
I agree. and I agree with that. I think it's a very respectable career. Not a whole-fame career, but a very respectable career. Yeah, I would agree with that. I'm a no as well. Here's the real reason why I wanted to throw him out there. um Take a guess percentage-wise um how well he did when he went on the ballot. Don't look.
00:12:36
Speaker
Oh, ah not well. Yeah, I wouldn't assume very well. He didn't even get on a ballot. Yeah, that surprised me. How do you not get on a ballot? Can we take a little pausey pause and see what he what the max score is?
00:12:53
Speaker
So in the conversation, and he's behind Cliff Lee and behind Matt Holiday. Fair enough. Oh, that's probably where I would put him. So he's actually one higher than Denny McLean, who won two Cy Youngs, but did literally nothing else. How do they compare to Matt Holiday? yeah Oh, that is that is scary, actually, how well he compares to Matt Holiday. Oh, wait, yeah, let me do that. My score is good, damn it.
00:13:16
Speaker
That is kind of scary. Give love to Max Gord. He's behind or ahead of Matt Holiday? He's four points behind Matt Holiday, and that's probably from a top 10. Wow, that's about right. Yeah, that's not bad. Matt Holiday is definitely better.
00:13:30
Speaker
Yes. Have some faith in the system. And it's not really meant to compare like player by player. It's more meant to like say, okay, should this guy even have a snowball chance in hell at the Hall of Fame? If you get 100, you get in the convo.
00:13:45
Speaker
Considering Matt Holiday does not, he'd hate this guy does not either. But the fact that Matt Holiday got on a ballot and made us think when we were voting, and this guy didn't even get a chance until 2009 on a veterans committee. I didn't have to think about it.
00:13:58
Speaker
Yeah. we We talked about Matt Holiday. were like we had that We had to like – it's not that we thought about it but it was like a regretful no. We never said he shouldn't be on the ballot. That's true. Yeah. It was one of those things where you like forgot how good his resume was until he looked at Yeah. Well, because I remember him as a Yankee and it was ugly. yeah yeah it was Good thing about him being on the Yankees was ah watching him and Brett Gardner stand next to each other.
00:14:25
Speaker
The Bald Brothers, but just the Bash Brothers, the Bald Brothers. But just think for a second, some of those guys that we had to talk about on the ballot the last three years, right? Rick Porcello, Hunter Pence, Fernando Rodney, Ben Zobrist, Brandon Phillips, James Shields.
00:14:46
Speaker
This guy couldn't make the ballot? That's wrong. It's wrong. He probably plays inevitable, but I think he could have pulled 10% on a ballot one year.
00:14:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:02
Speaker
Didn't even get a look. Writers are dumb. I'm sure the process was even worse back then. like Yeah, it it was because back then you only they only voted every other year.
00:15:15
Speaker
And there was no real, I don't think there was like a formal ballot issue. So like all those things I talked about with like Ralph Kiner is the first one getting elected since that time. Or like ah Chase Utley is the first one getting that high since Ralph Kiner with under 2000.
00:15:29
Speaker
Ralph Kiner is the only one when they were doing every single year voting that that applies to. So that's why that. Okay. Yeah.
00:15:41
Speaker
That makes sense. But yeah, shout out to Vern Stevens. Really good career. Probably the closest thing to the Hall of Fame on the St. Louis Browns.
MLB Leadership Changes and CBA Speculations
00:15:51
Speaker
We're recording this on February 17th and Mac's original intro was in reference to Tony Clark resigning from his position as the head of and mlbp the MLB Players Association due to a, quote, inappropriate relationship with his sister-in-law that he hired there about three years ago.
00:16:10
Speaker
um Yeah. What a joke. yeah ah Ten months out from the players going on strike. The leader of the Players Association has to resign. timing yeah This is boding well for us fans.
00:16:26
Speaker
yeah who to be To be fair, he was awful at his job. Yes, so I was going to bring that up. There was rumors of him misappropriating funds, and I believe he's still being investigated for that anyway. wasn't even talking about that part. Oh. I mean, he's the one that allowed the owners to increase, expand playoffs and all that kind of dumb stuff.
00:16:52
Speaker
He's the one that oversaw the A-Rod issues. Yeah. Oh, wow. I didn't even think about it. All the good that the Players Association has been able to do, he's also given in on stupid things. Expansive playoffs. no that You're right. I didn't even think about the A-Rod stuff. That's just crazy. He's the one to also allowed A-Rod back into the union after A-Rod tried to sue the union.
00:17:14
Speaker
hey ya he No backbone, this guy, huh? Not really, no. No. And ah actually, Passin just tweeted about an hour ago that there was like a call today with a bunch of heads from the MLBPA and they couldn't decide on an interim as of yet. So they're voting tomorrow to get that figured out.
00:17:33
Speaker
Yeah. Great. So they're not going to rush into it because they've made mistakes in the past. It's interesting because you'd think that they'd have a guy prepped or somebody to. No, I think this is good. man No, this is good. Don't rush into it.
00:17:46
Speaker
Take your time. Pick the right guy. I mean, this guy is going to shape baseball for a long time with this with this next CBA because the owners are going to push for a – they're going to push for the cap. You can't screw this up. this is and This is probably one of the most important CBA negotiations ever.
00:18:05
Speaker
Yeah. Ever. This is going to shape baseball forever. And you guys hear the way the players are talking about the Dodgers. They um they love it. They're not going to say no. hard school and agree with that The owner should pay more.
00:18:19
Speaker
Yeah. They should. They should. like I've said it several times on here. I have no problem what the Dodgers are doing. Well, neither do Harper and Machado because they both took media questions the other day, and they were like, I love it. It's good for baseball. you know i wish It's funny because they're on big market teams. Yeah. i wonder I wonder the guys that are making gazillions of dollars. Right, right. They're not going to love it, yeah, because they'd be the first ones to get their contracts cut.
00:18:41
Speaker
No, for real. It's going to be an interesting lockout. I really hope it doesn't. take out more than the season. I'm kind of prepared for it to take out 27 in total, but I just hope that they can get it fixed.
00:18:54
Speaker
There will be no baseball in 27. I've been saying this for a long time. The league was running damage control already. now you're going to have this stupid thing And you know what they're gonna the league is going to try to hold it over the players.
00:19:07
Speaker
Well, you guys can't even get your own house in order. You know, that kind of stuff. Yep. it's It's not
Phillies' Roster Moves and Dombrowski Critique
00:19:13
Speaker
going go well. This is only going to make it worse. Yeah. I don't know, man.
00:19:18
Speaker
Um... You talk about other player issues. I mean, Mike already mentioned Castellanos from the Phillies. They released him a few days ago. Phillies are paying 20 million dead money, which is just, you know real smart decisions here by Dombrowski again.
00:19:32
Speaker
um He was told not to come to camp. But my question for you guys, it's I know they wanted to get rid of him, all that stuff. But if I'm the Phillies, I let him try to make camp. There's no harm in bringing him to camp, right? Because even if he doesn't make the team, you cut him at the end.
00:19:47
Speaker
I thought they got somebody else in the outfield this year. Adoles Garcia, yeah, I guess. That's right, yeah. They just got Adoles Garcia. That was it. and I mean, as soon as they got him, it was over. You can't DH him. You have Kyle Schwarber. He has nowhere on the team.
00:20:01
Speaker
The the best thing they could do is was explore a trade. Yeah, nobody wanted him. Shocking. And and nobody at everyone knew that they were going to just DFA him so they could pick him up for free. but So why would they try it? Why would they a trade?
00:20:12
Speaker
It sucks. feel like yeah I think kind of disrespected him. Sorry, go ahead, Mac. No, go ahead. No, no. What kind of respect does he deserve? The guy can't play the field. Yeah.
00:20:24
Speaker
Well, I was gonna say it reeks of a role to Chapman with the Yankees in October when he skipped that workout in the playoffs. And they said, all right, we're not putting you on the roster. Don't come back.
00:20:35
Speaker
Yeah. And another parallel that's actually going on in the sports world right now is the Chris Paul issue. Chris Paul got caught on a road trip. And, you know, in the middle of the road trip, didn't come back, um got traded somewhere else and got waived.
00:20:54
Speaker
That's worse. Because he has much more cachet than Castellanos, you know. But he also was a headache, apparently, with what went on. Like, ah they said to him that you're going the third string point guard and your role is basically to be an extension of the head coach. Like, your job is to kind of get the players to – listen to what coach is saying, get everybody kind of tied up because they'll listen to you, you know the way that you know help him out.
00:21:20
Speaker
And then he turned around and told the players not to listen to the coach. So I wonder if there's more to the Nick Cassiano thing than we even know about. We obviously know about that one particular incident that took place.
00:21:32
Speaker
I'm guessing there was a lot more headaches going on and they're like, you know what, just forget it. It's better the team if you're not here. I wonder, yeah, how much control does Rob Thompson have over the locker room? Or is it just an issue, like a one-player issue? I guess you hope it is.
00:21:48
Speaker
um cause that It sounds like a one-player issue. Yeah. Because, I mean, in what world do you think it's okay to bring a beer into the dugout if you're going to be, you know, potentially? That's so funny, dude. Where do you even get it? That's what I'm saying. Who gave it to him? Why do they have those in the clubhouse to begin with? like That's a little crazy.
00:22:09
Speaker
And Rob Thompson said he's proud of him for admitting it. Topper's a weird dude. I like him. Cassiano said he has no respect for him in whatever words he Yeah, no, they they've been fighting for the past year.
00:22:20
Speaker
He's an interesting dude. But from what from what I understand, Schwarber really leads that locker room, which is why they paid him all that money to come back. They really would have missed him. Yeah, I get it. so It's hard to replace a guy that hits 60 home runs a year.
00:22:32
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I honestly think your bigger issue in Philly, I say your because you're obviously a Philly fan, right would be the Dombrowski comments with Bryce.
00:22:42
Speaker
Yeah, I know. Bryce really did not take kindly to I saw that too. he was saying, this is not what motivates me. you know I like to keep things in house. He was very upset. um i mean, that's just Dombrowski not knowing his player. I mean, I don't – It's a really big bad. It's a bad look for him too. Yeah. He's already bad look. Yeah. I don't know what's going on over there with him, but I think he's really dropped the ball.
00:23:03
Speaker
He's just locked. I mean, I keep saying in every pod that the Phillies going to crash and burn there. They've got so much money locked up in old guys. Like any moron who is an outsider like us could see that Bryce Harper is a player who feeds off the positive reinforcement.
00:23:18
Speaker
I will actually give Philly fans credit. I hate that. They've been telling Bryce Harper he's overrated his whole career. Not for the first couple of years when got there. an mvp at him They loved him when they he got there. The first couple years, they made the World Series in 2022. I remember going to a game with Zach.
00:23:38
Speaker
It was Sixers Bucks. He came out to ring the bell. That crowd was going ballistic for him. They did do a cheer for Trey Turner when he was having all that time. That's dumb. Yes.
00:23:51
Speaker
But Harper played well in those few weeks. The city of brotherly love. Those couple of years. You know, those first four years in Philly, he had an OPS plus of 150.
00:24:03
Speaker
And now he's come back to earth. He has an OPS plus of 129. That's still not bad. Not an elite year, according to Mr. Dombrowski. He had a better OPS plus this year than he did his first year in Philadelphia.
00:24:14
Speaker
Wow. How many Yankees had a chance to sign him, but they said he wouldn't play first base? Yeah. Remember that? Bye for them, guys. I mean, you want to talk about Yankee offseason.
00:24:25
Speaker
you You guys heard what Judge said, right? I didn't. i Yeah, do exactly. You would like to enlighten. Yes. um The offseason, he was asked the other day by reporters, blah, blah, blah. He said the offseason was, quote, unquote, brutal for him to watch guys get
Yankees' Offseason Moves and Aaron Judge's Frustration
00:24:41
Speaker
picked up. And he said he was, quote, frustrated with the way everything went down.
00:24:46
Speaker
He thought they should have added more. he was upset that guys like Belly, and, of course, he brought up Goldschmidt just because he's a team guy. It's like Belly and Goldschmidt. They were sitting out there. We needed to grab them and go.
00:24:57
Speaker
um And Stan was asked today about Judge's comments. And it's like, how did you do the Yankee offseason? And all Stan had to say was, yeah, it was an interesting offseason to say the least.
00:25:08
Speaker
And that's what he left it at. I think i think here you're missing the point here on Judge. it They just asked Judge about it. And Judge was like, yeah, it was terrible. Like we we didn't do anything except we were signed Bellinger. And then the same breath went, but it was a good offseason. At the very end of the comment, he went, oh, shit, I can't say that. He's the captain.
00:25:28
Speaker
i yeah's like i can't I can't tell my GM that he's terrible. I got to read what was actually said just to get a real feel and like actually listen to like the tone and stuff. Yeah, yeah. yeah I don't really know how I feel about it because one hand. He should be frustrated. It's great. Call out your GM for being bad.
00:25:47
Speaker
He should be. you You're the captain of the team. You have a contract and they are paying you. You're not getting traded. You're best player in baseball. Fucking say it. yeah Say it. It's like man with the New York Yankees. Let's go out there and get the right people, get the right pieces to go out there and finish. sal Good.
00:26:01
Speaker
I'm all for it. Good. and he said and and and And he said we didn't do it. And then in the next breath went, but we had a good off season. We still had a good off season. We got Paul Goldschmidt back.
00:26:13
Speaker
Which is ridiculous. I mean, i I really don't mind the Goldschmidt signing the way you guys flipped out over it. I didn't flip out over it. I think it's just kind of ironic that everybody said, oh we're going to run it back. You know, let's re-sign Goldie and actually run it back, and then they they did do that.
00:26:27
Speaker
i don't I just don't see the point of it. yeah a utility a utility first baseman on a team that struggled defensively, who you can bring in in the eighth inning or the ninth inning to get out and not drop the ball,
00:26:43
Speaker
A guy who has been a solid hitter for many years, has some veteran leadership qualities in him, looking to finish out his career in a big market. I see nothing wrong with signing him. They should have done a lot more. All right, so let me only way say this. ah The guy can only hit left-handed pitching. He cannot hit right-handed pitching. Knowing how Aaron Boone doesn't understand how to manage a lineup, he will most certainly be in there against right-handed pitching. They've talked all this big talk about how they want Ben Rice to be the everyday first baseman. Unless Austin Wells dies and ah Ben Rice becomes your catcher, I just don't see the reason for Goldschmidt other than that they're going to say, well, Ben Rice needs a day off because he's certainly not going to DH if Stanton's healthy unless you're assuming that Stanton's going get hurt. I don't see a world in which Goldschmidt is playing more than once every two weeks unless somebody gets hurt.
00:27:33
Speaker
That's where I was going to go. What's your plan if Rice gets hurt? There you go, I guess. Ryan McMahon. Play first? Why not? Yeah, no. No need.
00:27:44
Speaker
Why not? I trust Goldschmidt over McMahon. you You trust Goldschmidt over a Gold's Club third baseman? To play first base? Yeah. There are two different positions. It's the same position.
00:27:55
Speaker
There are two different positions. play third base, you can play first base. I disagree with that. There's an art to scooping. Okay. I don't know. Okay.
00:28:06
Speaker
Okay. Third base is reaction time oriented. First base is... What are you, Ron Washington? know it's It's easy to play first base. Tell him, Ron. It's incredibly hard. Yes. it is There's an art to it, man. I'm not going to tell you that it's the same thing as playing. I'm not going you that, but don't think Goldschmidt as good defensively as you're making him out today. I've seen enough gold glove catchers go and struggle at first base. Yeah.
00:28:29
Speaker
That's because they have no knees. Oh, wait. So can I ask this too? Is Michael K... Can he be objective about? No, he's not. He's a homer. You know this? don't yeah No. It's frustrating because he goes on his radio show. That's the best part is that he goes, I'm not a homer. But yes, you are. You're the radio show. Just own it, dude. You know who pays your check. Don't worry. We know it too.
00:28:51
Speaker
Because he's saying, judge you know Judge is saying all this, but ah you know he's the one that wanted a Bellinger back, and he likes Grisham a lot. So he tells the Yankees to get them in their hamstring for cash. like Michael K could be a fourth winner if he just embraced Michael K. But that's that's the thing, is that they didn't have to pay Grisham. No, they didn't. They did not have to pay Grisham.
00:29:10
Speaker
It's unbelievable. that That move I have an issue with. I will agree with that. It's awful. Don't worry. Jason Dominguez is going to start the year in AAA. This guy was supposed to set the world on fire three years ago, and has played 100 innings since.
00:29:23
Speaker
He can hit 100 in the Dominican League because he's so good. Don't worry. Our next big player is Spencer Jones. Don't know where he's going to play. Yeah, we still don't have a shortstop or a third baseman or a catcher or anybody in the bullpen.
00:29:42
Speaker
But hey, we got we got rid of Devin Williams. And then Nick Weaver shows up to the Mets camp with the Yankee bag just to, you know, just cause. Yeah, just so Mets fans can get mad. It's silly thing to get mad at. That's what happened? oh yeah. yeah nation would have be showed yeah you had yeah I mean, obviously it's because he just didn't get equipment from the Mets yet. It's not the biggest deal, but they freaked out over it.
00:30:05
Speaker
I know, but that's funny. Just to make the Mets fans cry, that's so fun. i love it. I did see a video today that he was signing autographs at the facility and some fan was like, I'm glad you're Met now. The Mets are better than the Yankees. And he looks up, thinks about it for a second and goes, well, we have to agree with you on that now.
00:30:29
Speaker
He's funny. um All right, Matt. Question for you. Verlander signed a one-year deal with Detroit. Is he done after this year?
Justin Verlander's Career Speculation
00:30:42
Speaker
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yes. He might not even make it to the end the year. Yeah. I mean, this guy's pitching until his arm falls off and it's, it's on its last, on its last breath. I'm surprised that he doesn't come out in the, you know, next few weeks here and just say that, yeah, that this is the farewell tour.
00:31:01
Speaker
Oh, he should. Yeah. and I mean, he will be a first ballot Hall of Famer. This is a farewell tour. Yeah. i I don't know about that. You don't think Ferlander is a first-bound Hall Famer? Well, he was mean to me, guys. I'm going to be like the writer. Oh, my. I forgot. I forgot, yeah. Character clause, guys. He was very mean. Yeah. Yeah, so I voted for Hunter Jones. Maybe I won't vote for him. I don't know. I got to think of this.
00:31:30
Speaker
Oh, my God. It's gonna take me about five years to really think this over. Yeah. I said Valdez also signed with Detroit three years, 115. A lot of money. a lot of money for that guy, which I don't know. i would do that.
00:31:44
Speaker
Yeah, I feel bad for their catcher. I feel bad for Derek Scooble. way Why? He won his arm case. He's to be Yankee. It's fine by me. i feel bad for him, though.
00:31:55
Speaker
It's okay. He brought the Cy Youngs, the arm of the operation case, and he didn't have to take him out. Which we have live. What you said. I know. You called that. Yes, I did. As he should. That that was a girl.
00:32:10
Speaker
Why am I worth the money? I don't know. Bang. but On the table. Say hello to my little friends. Yeah. Absolutely right.
00:32:22
Speaker
Yeah, i can I can't imagine that. This has got to be the last year. There's no way. He's not. He's staying. He's going to command the largest pitching contract ever.
00:32:34
Speaker
yeah There's no way Detroit pays it. i But where does he go? I don't know. I don't know. what's tea What's a team that really, really needs starting pitching and has unlimited money?
00:32:48
Speaker
The New York Mets. The New York Mets. Bingo. Done. Oh, I hate that. Yeah. Honestly. I can't stand that, but it makes too much sense. I don't think he'll go to Toronto. No.
00:33:00
Speaker
I mean, he is from California. oh God. don't even so Don't even say that, please. So maybe the San Francisco Giants could be involved. I think he wants to win, though.
00:33:13
Speaker
He did go to school in Seattle. ah Interesting. Yeah, but they ain't going to pay him. Might as well stay in Detroit. Yeah. yeah Skeens can come to the Yankees, though, because he wants to play for New York. So we like Skeens.
00:33:29
Speaker
We'll take Skeens. Yeah, we will take schemes. That's fine by me. I think it's more realistic to get school ball than the schemes. I really don't. i don't know. They have a while before. Yeah, we have a long time for that. but Yeah.
00:33:44
Speaker
Like, he's not a free agent until 2030. Wow. By then, Judge's contract is almost off. Yeah. By then, Judge is retired.
00:33:57
Speaker
Judge is retired. Bellinger is retired. And what the Yankees have? Anthony Volpe. And nobody else. Jason Dominguez in AAA. Spencer Jones in AAA still because they're afraid to bring him up.
00:34:11
Speaker
ye yeah It's ridiculous. Gary Sanchez will be their catcher again. Honestly?
00:34:19
Speaker
You know, for somebody who absolutely hated Gary Sanchez, I can't believe you've come around be like, he's really not that bad now. Because Olsen Wells is worse. Olsen Wells is worse, eh? And you keep talking about hitting prospects that the Yankees have made. He's the best one since Brett Gardner. He's a journeyman catcher.
00:34:35
Speaker
Can that go on Brett Gardner's Hall of Fame plaque? Oh, no. He was Yankee prospect for 10 years. Oh, no. Actually, 20 years almost. Oh, no. He came up in 08.
00:34:46
Speaker
Yep. Oh, my God. yeah it's not Best Yankee prospect, best Yankee, non-judge Yankee prospect in 20 years. The best Yankee prospect to come up after the after the year 2000. Stole 49 bases once. Wait, wait, wait. What year did Cano come up?
00:35:06
Speaker
Doesn't count. Did Royce. 2005 was his first year. He didn't stay long enough either. two thousand and five was his first year yeah he didn't stay long enough either I mean, he did have a very good Yankee career. He did 309 for nine years. Yeah, he did. Then he did rides.
00:35:23
Speaker
Okay, we get it. and he left Then he left unceremoniously, and it was called doing rides. Remind me at the end of the show, Josh, I got a discussion question for you. Oh, Jesus. We can cut it out at the end. I just want to remember. I need someone to remember to ask you.
00:35:40
Speaker
Okay. Carry on. Okay, I'm doubling back on Sherm, too. Can you... You're Roman Anthony. You're upset that Roman Anthony made the USA team. And I think you're a little too invested in this than most people are. So I just want you to go ahead and explain this to me.
00:35:53
Speaker
Oh, wait. Hold on. Let me pull up the list. Oh, yes. um List of left fielders that could have made the team other than Roman Anthony. Cody Bellinger, Riley Green, Stephen Kwan, James Wood, Wyatt Langford,
00:36:09
Speaker
Other players that don't play left field, Kyle Tucker, Jackson Merrill. Which one of those guys is Roman Anthony better than? James Wood, without hesitation. James Wood. Which one of those guys is he better than?
00:36:20
Speaker
James Wood. Other than him.
00:36:24
Speaker
Langford. Okay, so you would rather have Roman Anthony than Stephen Kwan. Probably the only guy on the team that could actually be a leadoff hitter for this team. I'd rather have Kwan. Kelly Green, Cody Bellinger, Kyle Tucker, or Jackson Merrill.
00:36:38
Speaker
Jackson Merrill had a rough year. Yeah, I'd take Riley Green. then keep be li met I would take Riley Green. Riley Green would be my first choice. yeah And then probably Anthony. I think I'd probably go Anthony over Bellinger.
00:36:49
Speaker
I would pick Green and then Kwon. For the sole reason of I don't want Bellinger to get hurt. Well, yeah. Fair. Sherman's very invested in the WBC. Yeah, I won. You know, after we got unceremoniously defeated by Japan in what I would only consider an embarrassing fashion, and how they nearly lost that one game ah to I don't even remember who it was against, when Turner hit that grand slam.
00:37:11
Speaker
ah Granted, their pitching was atrocious, and ah this time it's not. I would like to see them win. Not to be a hater. You're the only person in my circle that watches this.
00:37:25
Speaker
I watch it, but I'm not invest and invested. it was I'm not losing an ounce of sleep. yeah I mean, I find it enjoyable as a baseball fan to watch. This is not like the Olympics where you can't find a highlight because NBC locks everything because they bought their media rights and they don't want anybody else to say it. yes you know Why would anybody want to watch the highlights on you know a social media app where you're going to grow game and grow your your clicks? No, why would you do that? I'm just going to watch the full thing.
00:37:56
Speaker
He actually said to the fans, watch the highlights when they complained about the the streaming services. Oh, my God. Yeah. That's where you get fans, dude. That's where you get fans.
00:38:07
Speaker
But, yeah, James Wood was awful in the second half of the year. Like, you can't be for having – like, you can't be against having Pete Corral on the team and then call for James Wood to be on the team. I – well, I've never said I was for PCA being on the team, to be fair. No, I'm saying you can't be – And I don't think he – and he's definitely a bench player.
00:38:26
Speaker
You're missing what I said. I'm saying you can't be angry about PCA making the team and then want Wood on the team. I didn't say I wanted Wood on the team. I just said he's better than Roman Anthony. I wholeheartedly disagree. i'm not put a I don't want to put a player on a team with 70 career games on their wrist belt.
00:38:42
Speaker
I don't want to put a player on the team who struck out 221 times and hit 256. I already have a guy that struck out 200 times. His name is Aaron Judge. Right, that's but he hits 350. 350 or 250. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I mean, he's not a starter anyway.
00:38:58
Speaker
ah He's not going to start. Well, he actually, he might start.
00:39:04
Speaker
If the World Baseball Classic was last year, would you want Skien's on the team? Yes. but he only played 15 games. Because he was the best pitcher in baseball. He didn't need didn't need enough time to see that. Anthony is that good, though. I'm telling Anthony's legit. He's very good.
00:39:18
Speaker
I'm concerned. I'm good concerned about the the sophomore slump. Okay. So let him let him really mess up so that he struggles in ah the actual season. Oh, no.
00:39:30
Speaker
True. Yeah. All right, Mac, what was your ah discussion topic here for Mr. Sherham? Hold on. I thought we had other things to talk about, like Manuel Class A.
00:39:41
Speaker
Oh my god, how did I forget about Class A? I don't know. I wrote you a list and you didn't look at it. He's cheating. He threw games. He's in the playoffs. Unperfected for money. Ban for life.
00:39:53
Speaker
Ban, I think they should take his money.
00:39:56
Speaker
They should. I think they should sue him for all the money he's made and donate all the money to charity. I'd say throw him in jail for 10 years. ah That too. just yeah Just really squash. Just make an example out of it so that doesn't happen again. Because my question for you guys is, at what point between Terry Rozier, between Jonte Porter, between Emmanuel Klasse, at what point are fans going to be like, F this, I'm not watching anymore?
00:40:25
Speaker
I don't think they'll ever do that. But your obviously your game loses meaning when all this is happening. and And now is everybody loves to do their own conspiracy theories, and it's just going to get worse and worse.
00:40:36
Speaker
Right. I mean, they've been saying the NFL is scripted for years. I don't think it's going to stop people from watching it. yeah We proved this year it's not because no one wanted that Super Bowl. Right. Well, that's the thing is that it's not it's not as bad as it seems. There are people doing shady things under the table, but it's not like everybody's cheating.
00:40:55
Speaker
It's a select few. I think some leagues have it more of an issue than others, though. may i Yeah, I mean, yeah there was a team banging on trash cans. Yeah.
00:41:06
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, that's that's pretty bad. i think there's degrees to it. One guy throwing pitches to get money. but it's just now I don't think that one particularly ruins the integrity of the game in that in that way. well I think it comes back to the Pete Rose thing because like I think there's a little bit of a difference between the Astros cheating to win and Emmanuel Klasse intentionally messing up to potentially lose.
00:41:31
Speaker
I think there are differences. I think there's a huge difference in that. Yeah. Mostly because Class A was doing it for money. For money. Right. So that's why I think it's... I can't compare it to the Astro scandal. No, it's not. It's an apples and a... said it. I don't think it really affects... It doesn't really affect the integrity of the game. You're not doing it to be better. It's not like you're doing steroids to be better to win games. He's doing it for... He's doing it because, if I throw this pitch eight feet out of the strike zone, I'm going to get $9,000.
00:42:02
Speaker
But he's encouraging teammates to do it. There still are T's on that team that's being investigated. like Stuff like that isn't good. Yeah, throw him in for five years. gotta It's got to come out that like his family is gunned to their head somewhere and in the country he's from. and like this is how he's paying off his debt, right?
00:42:20
Speaker
Right, because why else? He's a top three closer in the game. I don't – you never need to go like that. Yeah, I mean the guy was a year away from the biggest contract ever, he threw it away for a couple – tens of thousands of dollars when he would have millions. I don't get it. That's the thing I don't get about the whole thing. Me too. It's either more money on the table, or B, that blackmail situation. But in order to get into that blackmail situation, more likely than not – you'd have to have been involved with them in the first place. I'm kind of dead. I mean, that that has happened. that This has happened to players before. Yeah, it's just like so bad. It's like Always the great players in the sport that do stuff. like
00:42:59
Speaker
I just don't get it. And I'm a little more, i guess like like as an NBA fan, like I'm more apprehensive actually about Class A than I am about Terry Rozier because Class A was a much better player. He had a much bigger impact.
00:43:13
Speaker
even in basketball where it's more individualized, all he needs to do is groove one pitch, the game's over. Yep. Right, but that wasn't what he was doing. It was the first pitch. We don't know that he wasn't doing more. Yeah, that's what they found so far, the first pitch ball. we really believe that it just was first pitch ball? I mean, how many games did he throw? I mean, did he not pitch well? He blew two saves when the Yankees played them, right? Yeah.
00:43:40
Speaker
Yeah. In the CS that year. He looked awful that year. I don't know. Who knows what happens there. I feel like they would have figured that one out, though. If they caught the other one so quickly, think they would have figured this out already.
00:43:52
Speaker
It's harder to catch if you're throwing intentionally lobbing. Down the middle of the plate. Yeah, than first pitch ball. Yeah, but that's also harder to bet. yeah Yeah, that would be harder to bet.
00:44:04
Speaker
I think it would be a lot easier for him to find out like it was like, oh, he's going to blow a save or the Yankees are going to win this game or judges to hit a home run, something like that. Like, I think that's way harder to bet than the first pitch of this inning is going to be a ball.
00:44:17
Speaker
Well, do actually believe that I was at one of the games that he threw. You probably were. That's crazy. They said it started in May of 2023. I went to a game May 3rd, 2023, Yankees-Guardians.
00:44:31
Speaker
He comes in, he pitches one inning, and he gets rocked. He didn't walk anybody, but he gave up a run, winds up blowing the save, threw 12 pitches, faced four batters, and you know gave up two hits out of four.
00:44:45
Speaker
Did he throw a first-pitch ball? Can you go back and look at the box? I buck can. I believe he threw, I think, three of them. I mean, now you can sit here say every time the guy got hit, he was cheating. He was taking money. i don't i don't I don't really agree with that one.
00:44:58
Speaker
But it just so happens that it was the same time that the FBI is saying he started doing it. Yeah, i don't I don't take any. But now I don't trust anything this guy did. i don't you No, you can't. It's just really sad. but we We've seen too many players throw fastballs right down the middle and guys swing right through them.
00:45:14
Speaker
ah for that to hold any merit. there's There's too much risk for a better in that to just assume that he's going to give up hits because he's throwing the pitch right down the middle is is kind of hard. You're going to lose too much money betting that.
00:45:25
Speaker
Unless you're having a Black Sox style scandal where a whole team is involved, and I don't think we're that far off from that happening. i I don't think we're that far off, but I don't think that this is the case. They would have been this too long for that for that to be the case, is my it is my point.
00:45:40
Speaker
They would have found it already. I just love how they were doing and um the lineup announcement like the day after Klasse got like temporarily suspended, and it was sponsored by FanDuel.
Emmanuel Klasse's Betting Scandal and Consequences
00:45:53
Speaker
Yep. Yeah. i wouldn't It's such a bad look. I mean, it was like when the guy in the Iowa Senators in hockey got suspended for half a season for betting, and there's like, yeah, here's a picture of him, and on the helmet is Bet365. It's their head on the helmet.
00:46:11
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the Giannis and Kalshi thing, too, rubs me the wrong way. I know we've talked about that a little bit. and not um Yeah. That's the only good thing about the Olympics, boys, is that I don't have to see ah between every period. Yeah, but I don't have to see between every period what are the odds of the game. like I can just watch it.
00:46:30
Speaker
There's no ads along the boards the whole game. It's great. But yeah, back to your Giannis thing. I think that's, you I think it's a little different because of prediction market and he can apparently, according to m NBA rules, he is legally allowed to own a 1% stake. I think that's worse because it's unregulated. There's no regulations there at all yet. And I think it's ridiculous.
00:46:55
Speaker
That is fair. I just think it's more in line with the rules of... Because if he is... I think it's more a rule issue with the sport. Yeah. More of a legal loophole, I think. Yeah, for sure. Than Giannis doing anything questionable.
00:47:08
Speaker
But it is a little ironic that, you know, Kalshi can bet on literally anything, including Giannis' next team. Trade-ons. And then Giannis out and is like, oh, yeah, I want to trade. it says behind, know, he gets Shams to post that he wants to trade, who also is dirty with FanDuel, Shamsharania. Yeah.
00:47:24
Speaker
And magically at the trade deadline, nothing happens. Oh, yeah, I'm a Couchy sponsor. Yep. No, it should not be allowed to begin with. but It absolutely shouldn't. But I don't think he's doing anything illegal yet. I will say you're your Adam Silver take aging like fine wine.
00:47:41
Speaker
I told you, he's the worst commissioner of sports. I said it five years ago. I think he's awful. making a fool out of himself this year. Manfred's better. Bettman's better. Goodell honestly looks really good lately. Hold on. Hold on to that. Hold on to that one about Manfred. ahead. I'm just saying hold on to it because in a few years before Manfred retires, he's going screw baseball over in an unrepairable way. I'm just saying hold on to that take because we might be coming back to that one.
Comparing Sports Commissioners: Lockouts and Challenges
00:48:08
Speaker
I also don't blame commissioners for lockouts. the way other people do. It's owners versus players. His job is to be the owners, uh, for lack of better term, sit smoke spokesperson. Thank you, Zach. Better word. Thank you. appreciate it Um, but yeah, his job is to be the owner spokesperson. That's, that's on the owners. That's not on him. His job is to be the bad guy. yeah i And Adam Silver has tried to be a good guy, and that's that's not going well. We have this goofy-ass in-season tournament. We have – honestly, the All-Star game went well this year, but no one knew how it worked. The dunk contest is atrocious. I don't really blame that on him, but – I knew there was an All-Star game this year.
00:48:52
Speaker
Right. It started at 5 p.m. It was terrible. It got tape-delayed for the Olympics. Curling came on after the All-Star game. Oh, my God. If you've been watching Curling, it's been pretty exciting. i don't know.
00:49:04
Speaker
They got their cheating scandal. But he got like a $70 billion dollars NBC media deal and sold out all of his beliefs. Now he's coming out hard against tanking finally by fining teams $500,000. That's nothing for them. Listen, I wish, I wish, I wish baseball did that.
00:49:24
Speaker
ah And they shouldn't find teams. They should just take your draft pick away. That's what I want Adam Silver to do. Yeah. They should do that. That's exactly what I want Adam Silver to do. They should do that in hockey, too.
00:49:38
Speaker
Just go out there don't play Panarin for a week while they're the last place. Yeah, just take the pick away. Skip right over it. Yep. Yeah. But I think a gambling scandal is a worse look for a commissioner than a lockout.
00:49:52
Speaker
And Silver now has two of those. Oh, yeah. yeah Not like Manfred has a guy using his interpreter to bet for him or anything. No, nothing like that. Manfred's got some issues with that, too. I'm talking more about Betman here.
00:50:03
Speaker
Very fitting name for gambling, by the way. Betman. Yeah. yeah he has't he's only He's only banned a couple of guys for gambling. He only had a guy ah he only had a couple of guys default and and signed for bankruptcy.
00:50:15
Speaker
But the difference is, Josh, that he banned the people. Adam Silver didn't ban anybody. Adam Silver let him play. Yeah. He's still playing. Yeah. As a matter of fact, Robin Leonard got into big trouble, into major debt, and he let all the money come off the books for the Vegas Golden Knights. They go sign somebody else.
00:50:40
Speaker
Yeah, that's kind of weird. I don't think Gary Bickman is saint here. No. I'm not, ah but it's not about saying these guys are great. It's about saying that Adam Silver is just worse. Yes. and not yeah They're all turds, but Silver doesn't have flies on his.
00:50:55
Speaker
The last thing we had to mention was that people have broken, how do you pronounce it? Handmaid? Hamate bones? Hamate bone? Hamate bone, yeah, in your hand. Hamate, handmaid bone, I don't know. Three guys in one day. Yeah, because we like to disclose injuries the first day of spring training because that makes sense.
00:51:13
Speaker
Lindor, Corbin Carroll. I think they actually broke it the first day of spring training. No. Lindor definitely did. Wow. That's terrible. But yeah, it was Lindor, Corbin Carroll, and I don't know who the third guy is.
00:51:27
Speaker
Jackson Holliday. I wonder how often this has been happening and they just say, oh, he he broke his hand. He's out for a while. Like, I don't know like if it's that.
00:51:38
Speaker
Like, if they just got more specific this time around. have no idea. ah I think they need to start putting padding on the bat or something if this is ah this is such a problem.
00:51:49
Speaker
All right, Josh. Oh, boy. So. Oh, no. You tend to Like, this is gotcha question. sorry and i No, it's not. It's actually not at all. I'm just interested sure to see your thoughts.
00:52:03
Speaker
You tend to be very anti-cheater, right? Uh-huh. Okay. My question for you is there's been some controversy lately with not the Hall of Fame we typically discuss, but the Pro Football Hall Fame involving one Bill Belichick.
Hall of Fame Controversies: Belichick and Brady
00:52:17
Speaker
Oh, yes. I like this. I like this. question for you is, yes, Bill Belichick did cheat. Robert Kraft, I guess, technically didn't, but he was the owner of the team that did. And there are 50 voters and you need 40 to get. I think it's 49. You need 40 to get in.
00:52:35
Speaker
Would you have been one of those 11 no voters that cost Bill Belichick election? That is a great question and one I have not considered. ah But you know what?
00:52:48
Speaker
I don't remember a lot about the cheating scandal, to be honest with you. So it's actually very, very similar to what the actual game I was going to say, didn't he like steal playbooks? Or am I getting that wrong?
00:53:01
Speaker
So it's Spygate. but He had two cheating scandals, I guess. Spygate was um in 07. And what he was doing was he was illegally taping signals from the sidelines.
00:53:12
Speaker
um like yeah And then the flake gate, right? And then he had the flake gate. Obviously, you know probably more about that one because it was more when we were older. um But... So this was obviously a violation the league rules. They lost their first-round pick over it. They fined him the max, which was $500,000.
00:53:28
Speaker
um And Goodell basically said, you're to destroy the tapes immediately. We never actually knew really what was on the tape. And people blamed Goodell for trying to cover it up. so I have my answer.
00:53:43
Speaker
Go ahead. I would not vote for him. That's terrible. But one is that you've seen every, um, I'm sure you've seen the backlash going on on social media. I have like, I think we should be more concerned that Eli Manning is not in the Hall of Fame. Tom Brady came out against it. JJ Watt came out against it. So many Patrick Mahomes came out against it.
00:54:03
Speaker
Well, obviously Mike, uh, if you lost Eli Manning twice and Eli Manning's not in the Hall of Fame, you can't be in the Hall of Fame. Sorry. Much more fair argument than the one that I'm trying to bring up here.
00:54:14
Speaker
Um, But now my follow-up question to you is that in three years from now, Tom bra Brady is eligible. Would you not vote for Tom Brady? my God. That's actually an interesting question.
00:54:28
Speaker
Because you can't really blame him for Spygate. I cannot blame him for Spygate. I would not blame him for Spygate. But would you blame him for Spygate? He'd deflate those balls. And is deflating balls enough to keep you from getting a bronze bust?
00:54:42
Speaker
Interesting. He's thinking. He really is thinking about it, which is insane. I'm torn because he's the greatest player. He's the greatest quarterback Oh, God. i i I feel like i have to stick to my guns. I feel like I'm a traitor if I say yes. Oh, my God.
00:55:01
Speaker
can we Can we justify it with this, okay? With football, there are several players who have been suspended for steroids and several players that have done steroids in the 70s that are known to have done it that are in the Hall of Fame. And there are several coaches that are in the Hall of Fame who straight up said, I did the same thing. Okay, so my question It said they did the same thing as who what?
00:55:26
Speaker
They like Jimmy Johnson actually said my team, you know, my guys tried to to do Spygate, but it didn't work out for us because something but the cameras or whatever. He straight up admitted on Twitter. and Oh, wow. Back up Belichick like, oh, yeah, I did it too. And it's all right. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not even going to touch on that one. ah My question is when they were deflating the balls, were they deflating every ball or only the balls that Brady touched?
00:55:53
Speaker
I believe only the balls that Brady was touching. Why are you laughing at that? It's a legitimate question. your head out This is crazy for you to rationalize this, but go ahead. yeah I'm just saying that if they were if they were all using the deflated balls, then I would say it's totally cool.
00:56:09
Speaker
ah But if they were but if he if they were altering only the balls that he used, then yeah, that's cheating. Now, follow-up question to this. We can make a comparison, right, that the deflating of the balls to the juice balls in Major League Baseball.
00:56:24
Speaker
Would that mean that every year – No, we can't equate that. It's very similar. Let's say – Yeah, but the league that the league was doing that. Let's say for a minute that there was that the commissioner of baseball decided, I'm just going to juice the balls up and you know let's see what happens with the hitting stats. And say it wasn't Rob Manfred. It wasn't even Bud Sealy. Let's say as if this wasn't something that actually happened. From God, right?
00:56:49
Speaker
Would that be disqualifier for you?
00:56:54
Speaker
Are you saying Tom Brady didn't know the Bulls were deflated? I'm saying he probably did. We don't know a whole lot of the fact he got suspended. um I just can't believe you're voting no on Tom Brady right now. that was I have be honest. Absolutely.
00:57:11
Speaker
This is absolutely terrible. Well, I'm sorry that some of us have morals. Okay. Yeah, well, the goodness is that you're going the reason why these things get shut down and out of business because no one's going go. Like the Pro Football Hall of Fame, people have actually based it. like it's all Okay, let's be real. Who wants to go to Ken, Ohio? mean, yeah, that's fair. i mean, i ohio i mean dude you I mean, come on.
00:57:33
Speaker
Like Cooperstown is barely alive. The reason why that city exists is because of Baseball Hall Fame. It's not like hockey where it's in the middle of Toronto. Yeah. Like, yeah, people are going see that because I'm going to Toronto. I'm going to go see the Hockey Hall of Fame. If you put the Baseball Hall Fame in New York City, yeah they would have incredible business. You put the Football Hall Fame in anywhere near city that people actually want to go to, people would go to it.
00:57:55
Speaker
That is fair. Yes. I don't know why they put them in these random cities, but – Canton, Ohio? No, if he goes to Cleveland in the first place and you're go drive another two hours south to get to Canton, get real. I mean, be real. Be Can imagine how big of a tourist destination it would be if they stuck Cooperstown, like if they stuck the Baseball Hall of Fame in the middle of Manhattan? That would be awesome. it doesn't i mean It doesn't even have to be in Manhattan. It just has to not be another hour and a half drive away from Manhattan. If it's within like 20 to 30 minutes, that's it. that's That's driving distance. People will go.
00:58:26
Speaker
Yeah. But... Going back to the Belichick thing for a second, the reason why I brought up Belichick tonight is because when we saw Bonds and Clemens not get in in 2013, there were a lot of people who were angry, but also a lot of people who were like, yeah, this is the right decision.
00:58:41
Speaker
There is nobody on planet Earth saying that keeping Belichick out is a good decision, except for you, Josh. worthy oh what so I think it's important to kind of note the fact that like, you know, the personalities are different in the sports where baseball people tend to get a little more sanctimonious about the rules when baseball's had cheating since 1903. And even earlier when Bud Galvin was chewing up big testicles to do steroids.
00:59:09
Speaker
i ah You know, I, I think that if football had a Black Sox scandal, it would be different. They did. They had Paul Horning who got banned for two years for betting. I think it was after his career though. So maybe not quite to that extent.
00:59:27
Speaker
But Horning got banned for a while and he's in the hall of fame. He was on the Lombardi Packers. They banned the whole team and stripped them of a championship though? The whole team, no. That I haven't seen. So yeah, I don't i don't think that compares.
00:59:40
Speaker
I mean, I don't think you'll ever see again where an entire team pretty much gets banned for a life.
00:59:48
Speaker
And that wraps up our 1944 episode of Championship Bar Bus. Thank you so much for listening. We will see you next time for 1945. Might have some more Hall of Famers for you then. Maybe not. We'll see. See you guys then.
01:00:00
Speaker
Peace.