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Episode 43 - 1935 World Series and Pete Rose HOF Discussion
28 Plays6 months ago
We cover the 1935 between the Detroit Tigers and Chicago Cubs, but the real meat and potatoes of our conversation revolves around eligibility of Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson for HOF induction.
Would a veterans committee vote rose in, or would he just be taking away votes from candidates more deserving? Does this have any impact on Bonds, Clemens etc?
Stick around to see if the boys will vote Rose into the Championship or Bust HOF!
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Transcript
Introduction & Hall of Fame Teaser
00:00:01
Speaker
Well, as Pete Rose's wife once said on TV, Pete, you're not supposed to be in the hall. What's up, everybody? but i love that commercial. Yeah, that's a good commercial.
00:00:11
Speaker
Welcome to the 1935 episode of Championship Run Bust with Max, Zach, and Josh. As I said before, we've got 1935 coming for you. But I think the majority of this podcast is going to be on what I believe is the biggest Hall of Fame-related news maybe ever.
00:00:28
Speaker
I don't know if I can't think of anything that would top this and we'll definitely get there. Everyone knows what it's about. And I think it's one of those days that this is what championship of us is made for.
00:00:39
Speaker
I could have done a whole separate pot on this, um but we'll settle for a solid size segment.
1935 World Series Highlights
00:00:44
Speaker
Let's get to 1935. Josh, go ahead. All right. 1935 World Series, Detroit Tigers, Chicago Cubs.
00:00:53
Speaker
Tigers won the AL by three games and will be looking for their first World Series victory after losing all four of their other appearances. The Cubs, coming and winning the National League, came into the series with a scorching hot September. They won 21 consecutive games, dethroning the defending champ St. Louis Cardinals for the pennant.
00:01:13
Speaker
Absolutely just got themselves in there. 21 consecutive games is absolutely wild. Yeah, that's nuts. So game one in Detroit, so the Cubs start the scoring the top of the first inning. Augie Gallen doubled, then scored on an error.
00:01:28
Speaker
And a Gabby Hartnett RBI single extended to lead two. Both runs unearned. The game would stay this way until the top of the ninth inning when Frank DeMere hit a solo home run. Lon Warnieke threw a complete game, four-hit shutout for the Cubs, winning game one by a score three to nothing.
00:01:42
Speaker
Game two, so the Tigers jump out to an early lead in the bottom of the first. JoJo White, single to start the game, and then scored on a Mickey Cochran double. Cochran would score on a Charlie Gehringer single before Hank Greenberg blasted two-run homer to make it a four-run inning and knock up starter Charlie Root out of the game.
00:01:57
Speaker
In the fourth inning, new pitcher Roy Henshaw would get two outs, then load the bases, giving up a single, hitting a batter, and then getting him milk giving up a walk. And then he'd throw a wild pitch to extend a Tigers lead to five.
00:02:08
Speaker
He walked that batter, loaded the bases, and Gehringer hit a two-run single, making it seven to nothing. In the top of the fifth inning, the Cubs' backs would finally wake up when Billy Jurgis singled home Phil Cavarrett, who, of course, reached on an error.
00:02:23
Speaker
Billy Herman would single home two more runs for the Cubs in the seventh. But in the bottom line inning, Pete Fox singled home a run to make it 8-3. Tommy Bridges would complete the game for the Tigers in the victory. But unfortunately for Tigers, Hank Greenberg collided with Cubs catcher Gabby Hartnett and broke his wrist, and he would miss the rest of the series.
00:02:41
Speaker
Ugh. Despite begging and pleading with Mickey Cochran to go back in, Cochran would not budge and would not let him go back out there. I mean, good.
00:02:52
Speaker
I think Cuskai played in the last World Series, so, you know. Yep. So, Game 3, pivoted to Chicago, where the stadium had a lot of empty seats, thanks to ticket poachers struggling to sell the tickets.
00:03:05
Speaker
Cubs owner Phil Wrigley... before the game strutted out the center field and raised a national league championship banner top of the flagpole and confidently said that his club repeat as champions again and told the fans that the team would clinch in plenty of time to process world series tickets by mail in the following year.
00:03:30
Speaker
And you know what? The cup started hot. Frank
Hall of Fame Debates and Comparisons
00:03:32
Speaker
Demare's lead off home run. The second, Chicago on the board. And a one-out single, followed by an arrow, put runners on first and third before the pitcher, Bill Lee, grounded out to make it 2-0.
00:03:42
Speaker
Cubs would add another. In the fifth inning, when Billy Gerrard just walked, moved the second on a sack bunt, sack's favorite, and then scored it on an Augie Gallon single. Tigers got on the board in the sixth when Goose Gosselin singled, and scored on a Pete Fox triple.
00:03:55
Speaker
Fox would then to get picked off a third base, which led to third base coach Del Baker getting ejected for arguing. In the bottom of that inning, Cubs manager Charlie Grimm would also be ejected.
00:04:06
Speaker
For a court stealing call at second base. Wow. Yeah, fun times. The replay ruined a lot of really good ejections. It's one of the negatives of having replay now.
00:04:18
Speaker
I mean, they can still get ejected. They can still get it, but not as often. How about Walker Buehler? Oh, we'll talk about that. Don't worry. Anyway, pitcher Billy had total control of the game for seven innings, but the wheels just totally fell off in the eighth.
00:04:34
Speaker
After a walk and a double, a Goose Gosselin two-run single tied the game and knocked Lee out of it. Game one winner, Lon Warnke, who threw a four-hit complete game shutout, entered this game in relief and did not look like the same guy who was pitched in game one.
00:04:48
Speaker
Giving up a single, then a Billy Rogel, another single, gave the Tigers a 4-3 lead. Pete Fox then stole home to make it five to three wow And then the Tigers' Woody English and Cubs' Tuck's Stainback would both be ejected for yelling from the benches.
00:05:07
Speaker
Neither of these guys were even playing. What? They weren't even in the game. They were just yelling from the benches at the umpires.
00:05:20
Speaker
So up to, in a bottom of the ninth, the Tigers put game one starter Schoolboy Rowe into the game to close it out. And he allows three straight one-out singles, the last being an RBI single to Ken Odia, before Augie Gallon hit a sack fly to tie the game and send it to extras.
00:05:35
Speaker
In the top of the 11th inning, JoJo White hit an RBI single for Larry French, and Schoolboy Rowe would pitch a clean 10th and 11th innings to finish the game and a win for the Tigers. Absolutely wild game.
00:05:48
Speaker
Yeah. So game four, significantly calmer. Alvin Gerald Crowder did it all for the Tigers during a complete game five hitter, allowing just one run on a solo shot to Gabby Hartnett.
00:06:01
Speaker
While he also singled in the third and scored the team's first run on Charlie Geringer's RBI double. And then he knocked in the winning run on a ground out. Of course, it was aided by two errors, but he still knocked that run in.
00:06:13
Speaker
And the Tigers would take game four by a score or two to one and move one game away from World Series victory. Game 5, saw the Cubs break the scoreless tie in the third on a two-run homer from Chuck Klein, and then add another in the seventh on a Billy Herman RBI double.
00:06:27
Speaker
After throwing six shutout innings, Lewarnke was placed by Billy, who finished a game, giving up one run on three consecutive singles in the ninth, but successfully earning that save. This was the Cubs' first World Series win at Wrigley Field, having lost all six previous games played there.
00:06:41
Speaker
Wow. they were always a curse. They were always a curse. Yeah.
00:06:48
Speaker
So game six shifted back to Detroit. So the Tigers score in the bottom of the first inning on Pete Fox's RBI double. In the top of the third, the Cubs would tie the game with Billy Herman's RBI single. But in the bottom of the fourth inning, the Tigers would regain the lead when pitcher Tommy Bridge came through with an RBI groundout.
00:07:03
Speaker
In the top the fifth, the Cubs would get their first lead of the game on Billy Herman's two-run home run, his second and third RBIs of the game. On the bottom of sixth, Billy Rodgel doubled with two outs and in scored on a Marvo of an RBI single.
00:07:15
Speaker
A tied game in the top of the ninth inning. Stan Hack triples to start the inning, but the Cubs could not get him home. Tommy Bridges masterfully stranded the runner in his ninth inning of work, stranded that runner at third base.
00:07:28
Speaker
In the bottom of the inning, mikey Mickey Cochran singled, moved the second on the ground out, and then scored on Goose Gosselin's walk-off single. The Tigers win the World Series. Detroit's owner, Frank Nevin, had run this team for 30 years, watched him lose four World Series, finally got to see his team win.
00:07:45
Speaker
Six weeks later, he had a heart attack of riding a horse and died. Oh, man. Oh, wow. That's tragic.
00:07:54
Speaker
At least he got to see the win, though. At least he got to see the win. He did get to see the win. I will say, i don't I'm not sure if this is the first World Series where somebody has stolen home, but I always think of Jackie stealing it in, what was it, like 55 I think he stole home?
00:08:10
Speaker
but um'm I'm wondering, off the rip, is this the do you think this is the first World Series where somebody has stolen home plate? That's a good question.
00:08:21
Speaker
Jackie's the one that comes to mind. I know, right? i think this This might be it.
00:08:28
Speaker
I feel like there had to be another one. There are a few guys who have been caught stealing home. I know that, like recently. Like Manuel Margot. No, it happened in 1921. Twice.
00:08:41
Speaker
oh twice Never mind. Successful straight steals. Jackie Robinson. Monty Irvin, 1951. We'll get there. Bob Usel, 1921. Yeah.
00:08:53
Speaker
And Mike McNally, 1921.
00:08:56
Speaker
And Tycom 1909. Oh, I'm a fake fan. Don't listen to me. Five times. They're still significant. Definitely. So it's only happened one time after, guess.
00:09:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:12
Speaker
Crazy World Series. lot of ejections, honestly. Very odd. A lot ejections. I enjoy that. I miss that about baseball. Yeah, I miss Lupinovsky-style ejections. There's something about just grown man babies throwing bases, getting all red the face. i miss that.
00:09:31
Speaker
For sure.
00:09:33
Speaker
All right. Seems like this is going a pretty common theme tonight, but we will head into the Hall of Famers. We have umpire Bill McGowan. What? don't remember him being around much.
00:09:44
Speaker
Where's Bill Clem? No Bill Clem. I think Bill Clem's done at this point. I'm not sure. I think he's done at this point. But Bill McGowan's in. So I'll ask you guys which way I should go with this first because the winning Detroit Tigers don't have a new Hall of Famer.
00:10:02
Speaker
The Cubs have one new Hall of Famer. I know I normally start with the losers and then go to the winners, but should I end with the losers today and end with the is he a Hall of Famer guy? Yeah.
00:10:13
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. yeah So we'll start with the winning Tigers then. Mickey Cochran, welcome back and happy trails. This is his fifth the final World Series appearance. Finishes with three rings. In this series, he had 292 with a 726 OPS.
00:10:25
Speaker
To be exact, 7 for 24 with a double and a run batted in. Just as a reminder, I have him level one as the number 10 catcher between Bill Dickey and Gabby Hartnett.
Pete Rose & Shoeless Joe Jackson's Hall of Fame Controversy
00:10:35
Speaker
Charlie Gehriger, welcome back. Second straight appearance, his first World Series title.
00:10:39
Speaker
He played well. 375, batting average, 923 OPS, three doubles, four was batted in, and stole a base. Level 2, number 8, second baseman between Roberto Alomar and Frankie Frisch.
00:10:53
Speaker
Another welcome back at Happy Trails to Mr. Goose Gosling. Fifth and final appearance, he finishes with two rings. He did okay in this one. 273 batting average, 6 for 22 with a double, three runs batted in.
00:11:06
Speaker
Just a reminder, have him level one, number 17 between Joe Medwick, who I don't know if either one of you guys voted for, and Heine Mnuch. I'm looking that up right now. Yeah, neither one of you voted for Joe Medwick.
00:11:18
Speaker
Interesting. And then Hank Greenberg, his second appearance, first ring, one for six with a home run, and two runs batted in.
00:11:28
Speaker
167 batting average 1042 OPS though because of the home run ah reminder level 2 number 10 first base between Willie McCovey and Johnny Mize Going up to the losing Chicago Cubs, feels very weird to do the losing team last, but it does make sense for this one.
00:11:44
Speaker
Gabby Hartnett, who Josh mentioned, it's his third appearance. Poor guy's 0 for 3 in the World Series. Zero wins, three losses. In this series, he played pretty well, so can't blame him. 7 for 24 with a home run, two runs batted in, so he hit 292.
00:11:59
Speaker
A level 1 number 11 catcher between Mickey Cochran and a future big-time debate on here, Yadier Molina. Billy Herman. Yeah. Yadier Molina.
00:12:11
Speaker
We'll fight about that later on. Yeah. We'll fight about that. Billy Herman. Ew. I'm sorry. Ew. i I will actually stand on my salt box for Yadier Molina. I'm not going to back down on that one.
00:12:22
Speaker
or well ah Going back to Hartnett, by the way, 1935, he won the MVP that year. Yes, he did. There you go. I should have added that in. ah Billy Herman. It's his second appearance. He's 0-2. It's also not his fault that they lost, though. He went 8-for-24 with a home run, a triple, a double, six runs batted in.
00:12:40
Speaker
I have him as the level one, number 17, second baseman between Tony Lazeri and Red Shandins. I always butcher his name. And for the first time since 1924, welcome back, Freddie Lindstrom.
00:12:52
Speaker
He finishes his World Series career owen two In this series, he hit 200 with a 517 OPS, 3-15 with a double. Well, he remains a basement Hall of Famer and was a unanimous no from the Championship Robust Committee.
00:13:07
Speaker
And our new member, and the spreadsheet is loaded up ready for you. i already have mine entered in. Welcome Championship Robust, Mr. Chuck Klein, who Josh mentioned in this series. He went 4-12 in the home run and two runs batted in.
00:13:20
Speaker
He was inducted in the class of 1980 through a veterans committee. Chuck Klein won the MVP in 1932, finished second both in 1931 and 1933. So you're looking at a three-year peak of being top two in MVP voting.
00:13:35
Speaker
And the year before this, he finished fourth. Didn't really have any other significant MVP finishes other than those four years, though. Career-wise, though, he did have a lot of black ink. He led the league in batting average once, on base once, slugging three times, OPS twice, runs scored twice, hits twice, home runs four times, and runs batted in twice. So you may be wondering, why did he get in through a veterans committee? Why did it take so long?
00:14:00
Speaker
Well, career numbers are a little low. He had 320 for his career, solid, 922 OPS, 137 OPS plus, 2,076 hits, exactly 300 home runs, 1,201 runs batted in, and 46.7 more. So that's where it gets a little tough. I'll let it to you guys. he Hall of Famer?
00:14:14
Speaker
one thousand two hundred and one runs bated end and forty six point seven war that's where it gets a little tough um i'll let it go to you guys is he a hall of favormer
00:14:32
Speaker
Go ahead, Zachy. I have my answer. think this is a pretty easy one. This is tough. I like 2,000 hits is great. I mean, career batting average is great. ah You sold me on the peak. Let me write that down. Write that down. He said 2,000 hits is great.
00:14:45
Speaker
2,000 hits is great. Oddly has 1,800. I don't want to hear it from you. Write that down. Write that down. That's right. I'm going to go yes on this one. Yes, you're written in.
00:14:58
Speaker
Josh. No, no, not at all. What? oh Wow. Okay. i can't believe that's a what. yeah but It's not a what. I probably was a little overdramatic on that.
00:15:12
Speaker
Explain. ah He was really good until he hit 29 and then he fell off a cliff. Couldn't stay on the field. Just was not the same player. I mean, a guy got into the league, he was hitting 30 home runs a year, driving in over 100 runs, hitting 350.
00:15:29
Speaker
And then all of a sudden he hit 29 and it was like he could barely hit 300. He was hitting maybe 20 home runs if he was lucky, driving in way less than 100 runs a year. i mean, he just the cliff the cliff was falling off of ah and it's not like he has like a war that's going to save him, or he didn't he didn't hit any magic numbers. 2,000 hits is that's ah but Somebody write that down, please, God.
00:15:57
Speaker
want you know, Hotley doesn't have 2,000 hits. I want you to know. Yeah, you know what you know and you know what he does have? a war 10 times higher than this guy. ah No, i think i think he I think this guy was a very good player for a very short amount of time.
00:16:14
Speaker
I do not put him in the Hall of Fame for a four-year peak.
00:16:21
Speaker
I respect that. We had a similar debate of another player. I don't know if you guys remember. See, see this to me sorry this to me is like if I was like, Tim Lutz becomes a Hall of Famer. I get it. That's what get it it's what I'm looking at here.
00:16:33
Speaker
That's a good argument, then. I get it, but here's the thing. Tim Lincecum, I don't believe, really led the league in much. And the leading the league is what sticks out for me. Okay, he won the league in more twice. He led the league in losses once.
00:16:48
Speaker
He led the league in win percentage once. He led the league in strikeouts three times. Okay. You know by my case with Johan Santana. He led the league in every major category three or four times each.
00:16:59
Speaker
That's more significant to me than what Tim Lincecum has. For me, if you lead the league in home runs four years, it's very hard for me to keep you out. The best outcome you can have at the plate is hitting home runs, and he did that better than anybody else for a four-year stretch in his league. He led the league in home runs with 28.
00:17:15
Speaker
Right, but that's he's still better than anyone of the era. So that's why I think the 300 home run count is a little bit low for the time period. And considering comparisons to the era, I think that matters.
00:17:31
Speaker
I thought he would... 300 home run sounds pretty good for that error. Am I getting that wrong?
00:17:37
Speaker
Um... I can try to pull up where he was at the time of retirement. to this He was actually the all-time home run leader for the Phillies when he retired. was fifth on the all-time list. can try to He retired in ah go through it he retired in nineteen fortyf four but you find the highest number of home runs ah As of 1944, I'll do it right now.
00:18:02
Speaker
And then we can kind of see where we can crush numbers there. So, most home runs through 1944, courtesy of StatHead. Please sponsor us. Sorry, that was, ah I did single seasons. I meant to saying, bro, after he ate a 30, he had two seasons of a war at three and then never even got back to that number.
00:18:23
Speaker
Okay, I have my case here. Would like to hear it? Go ahead. Chuck Klein retired as the seventh highest home run total of all time. Yeah, there you go. People in front of him were Babe Ruth, Jimmy Fox, Lou Gehrig, Mel Ott, Al Simmons, and Rogers Hornsby.
00:18:37
Speaker
Exactly. Good night. That's a good night. There you Well, you can call it Bill White. I'm not voting for him. Josh, I think you really have to take some time and look at Andrew Jones' stats before we vote in 2026. Because if this is your principle, two straight episodes, I don't see how you can vote for Jones.
00:18:59
Speaker
I still get to my vote. Uh-oh. That's the one thing. like I get the reasoning. It's fair. But how does Jones get away from that?
00:19:11
Speaker
I know you're a big peak guy too. you know Chase Utley was the best second baseman for a five-year stretch. I don't disagree with that. But Chuck Klein was the best hitter in baseball in his league for a five-year stretch, but he doesn't get I don't know about five years. ah yeah it's a lesley hu's course but um um i'm telling you, du my thing is that it just there was nothing there was nothing in his career turned that's what i say Right, same with Andrew Jones.
00:19:41
Speaker
A four-year peak is tough because it doesn't feel like five or six years sounds immediately better. um And I'm not disagreeing with that. yeah I mean, like, and I feel like we can talk about it with Felix Hernandez, too, on the current ballot when we get to 2026.
00:19:56
Speaker
It becomes, you and that's where it becomes subjective. How long of a peak career do you need right to get in? when When you're that dominant, I can get away with a little shorter, I think.
00:20:09
Speaker
Like, If Aaron Judge retired today, I know I bring that
Historical Actions & Future Hall of Fame Trends
00:20:12
Speaker
back. Are you really keeping out? No, absolutely not. If Shohei Otani retired today, are you really keeping him out?
00:20:20
Speaker
Like, if Mookie Betts retired two years ago, are you really keeping out?
00:20:26
Speaker
You know what? If Klein retired... after he hit the age of 30, 31, 32 maybe, and didn't proceed to play like crap after that, I might have a different opinion. you'd rather have him I might have a different opinion. I'm just saying that my opinion would be different if he didn't fall off a cliff and i just continue to keep falling.
00:20:48
Speaker
I have it. He should have went into military service. Sherm would have voted for him. Yeah.
00:20:56
Speaker
That's not funny. Here's the thing, Josh. Even when he proceeded to, in your words, play like crap, right? He still finished his career with an OPS plus of 137. was a better hitter for his entire career than the average player.
00:21:16
Speaker
I'm just saying, dude. It's just not it for me. It's not it. I get it. i'm ah I'm not, like... If he had, if he had like, 10 more war, I'd be like, yeah. But he doesn't.
00:21:27
Speaker
Like, to be fair, for the ranking purposes, because I know we ran a little longer than i expected, i i had him low. I had him level 1, 23rd, and left between Sam Crawford and another one that you said no to and Sam Rice.
00:21:40
Speaker
In what? Sam Rice. no no, no. In what position? Left field. Isn't he a right fielder? He varied both. He played both.
00:21:52
Speaker
His jaws, they consider him left. Really? I guess that must have changed. When I did it, I had him left. I can swap that.
00:22:02
Speaker
They originally had it left. That's weird. I guess it changed. right, that'll be fixed.
00:22:09
Speaker
Either way, he is like a but a basement level like a guy. Oh, wait. No, I'm sorry. Yeah, that's weird. Okay. don't know that happened. He played a lot more right field than left field. i don't know where you're getting in that from. Originally it said left. It doesn't say that now, but when I did this, what happened was I would scroll down to where it says Hall of Fame statistics and I would go where it says Jaws and then the the stat.
00:22:30
Speaker
And that was what I figured since that's what, you know the guys look at and they compare based on that. That's what I use. So might've been an oversight on my part now that I'm looking at it, but that's weird.
00:22:44
Speaker
Okay. I'll fix that. um reckon I'm starting to think his war was very low because he was not a good fielder. Maybe, who knows? He led the league in eras one, two, three, four times.
00:22:59
Speaker
There you go. There you go. That's an interesting stat.
00:23:06
Speaker
I'm not going to lie. i could get behind saying no more comparing him to the right fielders and the left fielders. Yeah.
00:23:14
Speaker
Wow, okay. Because now we're comparing him to Dave Parker, Aaron Judge. I mean, he's in. You know, position's just semantics. Yeah. But I can get – it makes more sense seeing him as a no comparing him to these guys.
00:23:29
Speaker
ah See, you know, you love – I'll make him bottom right fielder. We'll make him 28 just under Aaron Judge. There you go.
00:23:37
Speaker
Pete, guys, together. That works. I do love how Judge is already in your hall. It's hilarious. What's up? I love how you put Judge in. like and so How do you not? I know. justs It's just weird hearing his name in there already is what I'm saying.
00:23:52
Speaker
How do you not? ah Listen, you make a case. i i get the hit I get the totals are low. I'm not denying it. I'm just saying. But for me, three-time MVP, you're automatically in. Guess what's happening in four months.
00:24:06
Speaker
Well, don't jinx it. Either way, he should have won against Altuve. I'm not holding that against him. He's three-time in my eyes. So that's how we're doing it. but Yeah, I agree. Klein is a basement-level guy.
00:24:20
Speaker
I was just going to say, if you look at his war, ah the average war for a Hall of Famer in the right field is 69%. sixty nine A right fielder makes a significant difference. Wow. The right fielder is no. It's inflated because of certain players. Yes. Right fielder is loaded. I'm not going say anything. His career 46.
00:24:41
Speaker
His peak war is 39. I don't know. I'm going no. Like I said, if he had 10 more war, you could convince me. All right.
00:24:52
Speaker
I have Josh down as a no. ah have josh down as a no And he will not be added to the running lists of 40 current championship of us Hall of Famers. That's okay.
00:25:03
Speaker
One of these days we got to do one episode of just every other Hall of Famer that never played in a World Series and add them in. and The guys that from before we started doing the game.
00:25:13
Speaker
that's a great idea. At some point we got to do that. Like I'll just run off like a hundred different cases. We'll do the short version of it and roll. I won't give a giant summary. All right. Just do it.
00:25:24
Speaker
If we ever get big, that could be like a bonus episode. That'd be really fun. Yeah, that's a hot if there, my friend. yeah if we ever get If we ever get, you know, not feel like doing a World Series one week or there's not enough current events to do, we can just roll with that.
00:25:37
Speaker
The things have been going lately, at current events just ain't ending. Right now we're rolling. Yeah, we can. You know, right now we're good. Yeah, let's. All right, let's talk about it. Mr. Manfred has ruled that Pete Rose, Julius Joe Jackson, and about seven others from the Black Sox scandal are now eligible to be voted on for the Hall of Fame.
00:25:58
Speaker
um I'm just going to run through it. Do we think that this was political? I feel like a few weeks ago Trump said something along the lines of, I'm going to pardon Pete Rose. um don't know if you all saw that on Twitter. not gonna i'm gonna He did.
00:26:12
Speaker
He did. Yeah, I don't – He did pardon Pete Rose. But what is what is he parting him from? i don't and don't know. I don't know. Whatever going on in Trump's head. He had some sort of business-related crimes that he spent like six months in jail for.
00:26:26
Speaker
Yes. yeah Okay. All right. So I saw something that Manfred was trying to cozy up to Trump and make this somewhat political. But he he honestly – he defined – Manfred defined the the lifetime ban.
00:26:38
Speaker
I'm going to read the quote. Therefore, have concluded that permanent ineligibility ends upon the passing of the disciplined individual's life and Mr. Rose will be removed from the permanently ineligible list." unquote So this is crazy, at least to me. My immediate reaction was that I thought it was good for baseball because you're preserving the history part and like the family doesn't get to celebrate for... But it's it's a lot of there's a lot of implications here, and I just want to jump in.
00:27:09
Speaker
like I know all the place right now. I think it's interesting because Rose's family is still alive when this happened, but all the guys from the Black Sox scandal, their immediate families are not around anymore.
00:27:21
Speaker
So Rose's family is kind of getting the benefit or like the rub from this. And I don't know how to feel about that. Like, what do you, what do you guys think about that point? I mean, this was always about Pete Rose and all those other guys are just like icing on the cake. Right. They're just thrown in there because they also happen to have the same exact thing. This was always about Rose. It was never about anybody else.
00:27:40
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I mean, when we're looking at Rose, right? He, I'm trying remember how to word this. The Hall of Fame was never a problem for the Black Sox. They technically were always eligible until Pete Rose got banned.
00:27:58
Speaker
When Bargiamatti banned Rose and then... subsequently passed away about a week later, the hall convened and made the decision that he, you know, that people on the ineligible should not be considered for the hall of fame.
00:28:11
Speaker
Despite this, he still got write-in votes back in the allowed write-in votes and he peaked at about 10%. Wow. wow the Joe Jackson was on some ballots. People wrote in Joe Jackson's name as well.
00:28:23
Speaker
Not really any of the other guys, but they both came up before. So, When we think of this stuff, we think of Pete Rose when it comes to the Hall of Fame because technically the Black Sox were never excluded.
00:28:38
Speaker
But Joe Jackson peaked with like 1% of the vote because no one was touching it with a 10-foot pole. Okay, so the BBWA actually technically voted on the Black Sox. I didn't know that.
00:28:50
Speaker
Technically, they had the opportunity to but didn't. the The Hall never said ineligible players are not to considered the Hall of Fame until after Rose was banned. It was basically kind of like a cover your butt kind of situation. They didn't want to deal with the PR and that's what had happened.
00:29:06
Speaker
Because remember, the Blacks actually were banned after it happened, 1920-ish, right? The World Series was 1919. So let's say they were banned in 20 or 21. The Hall of Fame didn't start voting on people until 1936. There were so many people to vote on and you saw how Cy Young and Rodgers-Worthby didn't get in their first years that it never really mattered.
00:29:28
Speaker
You know and you were yeah know, when you had to pick 10 people from, you know, 80 years of baseball, you're not picking the guys that, you know, were banned. For sure. So you just never got around to doing it.
00:29:38
Speaker
Once Pete Rose was up and the Hall of Fame was, you know mainstream, a debated topic in people's minds, they kind of had to do something. It was the only time the Hall of Fame ever really stepped in and said, you can't vote on these guys. And it actually annoyed a lot of the BBWA members because And that's why they wrote him in kind of as a protest.
00:29:57
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say. So, like, it's weird to see that. So they were able to be voted on by the BBWA and Rose technically never got that chance, right? Technically, but people did write him in anyway. Like, think about 10% of people wrote him in.
00:30:10
Speaker
Yeah, i that is a lot. You're right. And that was in 1992. ninety two So now he's going to be eligible. They're they're all going to be eligible for 2028, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.
00:30:21
Speaker
2027 or 2028. I forget the exact year. But it would be when um the the committee that we just voted on, when we voted for like John Donaldson and Tommy John, those guys, they go on that ballot, which was a loaded ballot to begin with.
00:30:36
Speaker
You're talking about every single player, manager, owner, umpire, executive that peaked before 1980. Negro Leagues, Major Leagues, right everybody.
00:30:50
Speaker
How the hell do you handle that? I don't, I don't know. So then my, my question to you guys is, do you, do you think the veterans committee votes him in? I'm honestly not sure if they do. I don't, I don't think they do.
00:31:02
Speaker
I don't think they do. I think honestly it's, it's semantics. You know, we've seen it already with the veterans committee when the modern guys were on their bonds, Clemens, et cetera. um They'll kind of, you know, play it because they, they get to choose who's on the committee.
00:31:18
Speaker
And I believe that they've kind of chosen some people that they know will not be voting for Bonds and Clemens, not all of them, but just enough so that, you let's say, you know, there's 16 members on the committee, you need 12 votes to get in. All you need to do is pick five guys that you know, aren't going to vote for them.
00:31:34
Speaker
And it's done. It's a non-issue. Yeah. So my real concern is that new rule that came out before all of this, when the hall of fame announced, which was actually pretty big news for hall of fame nerds like myself, that,
00:31:47
Speaker
Now with the committee ballots, because there's such a backlog, they don't want retreads on the ballot. And what they're saying is now if you get less than I believe three votes two years in a row, you're no longer eligible for consideration.
00:32:02
Speaker
So now you put these two polarizing guys in the ballot guaranteed to get about half the votes and cancel each other out. And that screws over guys like Tommy John and Thurman Munson and Louis Tiont and Steve Garvey and John Donaldson and Bill Delenn.
00:32:17
Speaker
and Ken Boyer, and Greg Nettles, and Willie Randolph, and shall I go on? I could go on for hours naming off these guys. yeah And just what we needed was two, honestly, we'll get to this because I have something on this, three guys in the pile we're going to add into this mess.
00:32:34
Speaker
Because there's three legitimate guys with Hall of Fame cases here. Yeah, it's actually really funny you say that um because they they did interview a couple of guys in and around the Hall of Fame voting, and Jim Catt,
00:32:46
Speaker
noted Hall of Famer was basically like, I don't know how you vote for
Pete Rose's Legacy and Controversies
00:32:51
Speaker
this. If you're voting for only things that happen on the field, obviously Rose is a Hall of Famer.
00:32:59
Speaker
But now if I have to consider whatever things he did off the field and put him up against the likes of Tommy John and Dale Murphy,
00:33:09
Speaker
I just don't know who to vote for is pretty much what he said. That's hard. And he's right. Yeah, he's absolutely right. I mean, i don't know what you do with this. Part of me thinks like, you know, and we talked about it off pod when I was doing the spreadsheet for a CEO Hall of Famer and I had separate ones for the years.
00:33:25
Speaker
It's a lot different to say up, down, yes, he's a Hall of Famer. No, he's not. Then what it is when you have a list of eight names and you can only pick three. Yeah. You might think six guys are Hall of Famers. Right.
00:33:37
Speaker
There's a question of who's more deserving. Right. right if youre only like If you can only pick three, and let's say Thurman Munson, Steve Garvey, Tommy John are on that ballot, and you think they all belong. You may not think they all belong, but if you think they all belong, are you really going to say no to Tommy John to put in Pete Rose? I don't know. I don't think you do, right. I think you justified that Tommy John has no problems off field, so you might as well just vote the clean guy in, right?
00:34:02
Speaker
Yeah. that's That's part of what I'm thinking, and it's going to come up also now with that rule when we get to the modern guys. you know Zach, we're going to have this year probably Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, let's say Kenny Lofton, Carlos Delgado, Rafael Palmeiro, and Jeff Kent on this ballot.
00:34:29
Speaker
Wow. loaded names. Yeah. And a lot more that aren't going to make the ballot. What do you do with that? Like, do you vote for the, do you vote for the deserving guys? do you vote for the best players out of there?
00:34:42
Speaker
Or do you vote for the deserving guys and give priority to the clean guys? I don't know what I'm going to do with this. Yeah. I don't have an answer for you. It's a really difficult situation. And then it ends up a wasted vote. Like if the goal is like in your own head, the human element, listen, like five guys aren't going vote for Rosa Jackson.
00:35:00
Speaker
Why am I going to waste a vote on Rose and Jackson when I think Dale Murphy belongs in? going to vote for Dale Murphy knowing that there's no chance. That's some of the things that are going to have to go on in that room.
00:35:11
Speaker
It's tough. It really It's tough situation to be put in. So what a what better time than any to play as Heal Hall of Fame? So we unofficially, and I swear to God we did this, we voted for Rose and Jackson in the past.
00:35:24
Speaker
um It was well before we started voting on this stuff. We were young podcasters. That's probably why you guys b blanked it out. But yeah, I literally do not remember voting on this.
00:35:35
Speaker
I didn't do a bio on it, so just going to go off the cuff. But Pete Rose, 24-year career, mostly with the Cincinnati Reds. Obviously the Hick King. I think that's pretty much enough said. one an MVP.
00:35:47
Speaker
Big part of a lot of big teams. Won three batting titles. Several 200 hit seasons. Led the league in hits eat seven times. sorry And war.
00:35:59
Speaker
But da dot, dot. I'll leave it up to you guys. What do you do?
00:36:06
Speaker
i I literally don't know. i I used to think it was so easy. So did i Right? And then i was we were talking about this off pod a bit. HBO did a doc on him. I really, really want to go and watch it.
00:36:20
Speaker
ton of I did. ah yeah he didn't do himself any favors. Yeah, right. He just sounds like a horrendous human being. He did nothing. Nothing positive came out of that.
00:36:31
Speaker
just So, for me, and I've stated many times before, if a guy does something on the field that affects the game
00:36:46
Speaker
to sway it one way or the other,
00:36:50
Speaker
illegally i will not vote for them.
00:36:53
Speaker
I cannot definitively point to whether Pete Rose did or did not do that by betting on games. Because I don't think anyone particularly knows the answer to that question. Right. ah So it is a very tough decision to make because of that.
00:37:10
Speaker
Right. And he does have his other off-field problems that I'm not even going to mention because I don't think it's pertinent. We've had that discussion before as well. Yes, agree with you. Yeah. Nothing – yeah. ah So again, like I said, I only care about on-field things ah despite the stupid things that he's done and said about it, the no comments and and releasing a book about it instead of just owning up to it, pissing off his own teammates. Yeah.
00:37:40
Speaker
I would, at this point in time, based on my mind, today, May 22nd, 2025. twenty five He's dating it. Remember, this is on the spreadsheet. once This is on the spreadsheet. Okay, good. i vote yes.
00:37:57
Speaker
Okay, can i Before I say... going to say yes as well, but I want to go at you for a minute. Please do. So, Pete Rose...
00:38:10
Speaker
compromise the integrity of the game we agree on that yes right yeah yes okay we agree on that in some way or capacity and we can go with the idea that you know he bet as a manager and there's proof that he has been as a player that came out you know in recent years that he bet on them to win only fine But if he didn't bet on them to win, that means he's insinuating he's betting on them to lose. Thank you.
00:38:36
Speaker
It's almost like the you know one for bad, two for good in Rain Man kind of deal. So either way, I don't buy into that argument at all. I still think he's a yes in spite of that. But i don't buy into the fact, oh, he only bet on his team to win.
00:38:52
Speaker
Because by that logic, the steroid guys were only trying to win too. So my question for you is, Josh, if you can vote for Pete Rose, who we clearly agree compromised the integrity of the game, and we i can't get on that argument of he only bet on his team to win, how can you turn around and not vote for Barry Bonds when Pete Rose was suspended for 25 years for what he did and Barry Bonds was never punished by Major League Baseball for what he did?
00:39:25
Speaker
You can put Barry Bonds in when he dies. yeah I mean – Honestly, he meant for my doing at this point. Honestly, yeah. um So the thing – okay, so the thing is my mind here ah
00:39:44
Speaker
that nobody knows what Rose actually did. Everybody knows what Bonds did. But we we don't know what Bonds actually did because he was never suspended for it. And Pete Rose was suspended for it. Only in hindsight.
00:39:58
Speaker
you can't You can't suspend Barry Bonds now. He doesn't play anymore. Yeah, but we supposedly knew what Bonds did when he was playing. They couldn't prove a thing. They're trying to retroactively punish him now.
00:40:11
Speaker
but I mean, as had to test if they had to test back then that they have now, I don't think it would have been that hard. The point is... I don't want to spend it for using Ozembek. And I don't want to, like... I don't want to like turn this into a Bonds thing, but i just I see what Bonds did, what Clemens did, what A-Rod did, what Manny did being nowhere near as bad as what Pete
Historical Players' Hall of Fame Suitability
00:40:34
Speaker
Rose did.
00:40:35
Speaker
I still say yes to Pete Rose, but I don't see how anyone can say yes to Pete Rose and not to Barry Bonds. ah So my thing for Pete Rose, again, is that as a player, ah if you look at his stats, they speak for themselves. He was not betting on his team to lose.
00:40:52
Speaker
but Okay, let me rephrase that. If he was betting on his team to lose, it wasn't because of him, that's for sure. That's fine. nor I mean, shoot-less, same thing. He threw the game, but he still was batting 400.
00:41:05
Speaker
Right, but if you're like cheating, the cheaters only tried to win two. So I think that's a slippery slope. And then if he's not betting on his team to win, he's insinuating the betting on the team to lose. I'm not saying he ever dogged anything or he ever threw games.
00:41:22
Speaker
We could get in this Shoeless Joe argument later on with that. But either way, it's a sign of like, you know, I'm not feeling good about this one. I'm not going to bet on it.
00:41:34
Speaker
And gamblers can see that as a sign of like, okay, they're going to lose. exactly And as a manager, I think it's even worse because you can choose who you're throwing out there to pitch. You know, think about the Yankees. Oh, I don't feel good. I'm not going to bet on today.
00:41:45
Speaker
Or like the gamblers tell me not, you know, that they're that they bet on the other team. Okay, Mark Leiter Jr., get out here. Or Devin Williams. Right. that That's my yeah mig gripe with it.
00:41:58
Speaker
I'm actually... like I'm more on the fence about Pete Rose. I lean, yes, and I also could change my mind on that. But like I don't have...
00:42:09
Speaker
anywhere near as much reservation in voting for bonds or Clemens or any of them. even they i you I totally get, I totally get what you're saying, but at the same time, it is, it is just, it is pure speculation to what exactly Rose did and how it affected how he played or how he managed. It's, it's pure speculation. So what exactly did Barry bonds do?
00:42:30
Speaker
He took steroids to be better and hit a more home runs. What kinds of steroids did he take? Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. How do we know what he took? The Balco project or whatever, but you know.
00:42:40
Speaker
How do we know? We know. There was clear bias in the Mitchell report. There was clear bias in Balco. How do we know what he did? How do we know Jose Altuve was wearing a wire? We don't. We don't know that. Exactly. Speculation. That's why don't hold it against him either.
00:42:55
Speaker
That's consistency.
00:42:58
Speaker
We know. but We know. it's sealed It's sealed in a file somewhere in Rob Manfred's house, but we know. He's too afraid to open it. but Now, I'll run this.
00:43:13
Speaker
Well, before that, Zach, you didn't vote. so I didn't. Oh my god, you're right. You're right. Let's play out of it. Good job. I just want to invite another player into the battle, and then we'll continue Pete Rose.
00:43:25
Speaker
So go ahead. I would... It's really hard... My gut is saying yes just for the perseverance of history or whatever. like The Hit King needs a plaque regardless. You know what i mean? like that That's important.
00:43:39
Speaker
So I would go yes if you had to point a gun at me. What do you mean? Itro's already getting a plaque. True. Honestly, true.
00:43:49
Speaker
So let's another player has joined the battle, and he's been waiting for over 110 years to really get his due. And that's Shulis Joe Jackson. So is he a Hall of Famer?
00:44:01
Speaker
He played 13 years, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Chicago, White Sox. Believe it or not, he did not just play for the White Sox for his whole career. His playing career in terms of his rates, he's another one, Josh. I mean, his rate stats are sick, but his totals are not great for obvious reasons.
00:44:19
Speaker
He was done at the year at his age 32 season. um He has a career batting average of.356 and an OPS plus of.170.
00:44:30
Speaker
Led the league in OPS. Oh, you know that gets Zachy going. And led the league in hits twice. um He did have four 200-hit seasons. um But his career totals, he only has 1772 hits.
00:44:45
Speaker
So less than Chuck Klein. He has 54 home runs. Less than Chuck Klein. 792 runs batted in. Less than Chuck Klein. So he has a better peak than Chuck Klein.
00:44:56
Speaker
But less career than Chuck Klein. Yeah, but guess what he has higher than Chuck Klein? Oh, yay.
00:45:05
Speaker
I guess what position he played. Say what Chuck Klein played!
00:45:10
Speaker
So, I will ask you fellas, considering his transgressions, and Joe Jacks, I feel like, has been more of a, like, what's the tragic figure than Pete Rose?
00:45:22
Speaker
know, we don't really know how his character stuff was, because it was 100 years ago. But, He's been one that, you know, because he was unable to read, don't really know how much he knew. I forgot about that.
00:45:34
Speaker
Right? Like, we don't really know, but at the same time, his team outright threw games, which, like Josh said, is up in the air with Pete Rose.
00:45:45
Speaker
I would like to remind you, in that World Series, I think he was batting, like, 400, though. like He did have a couple errors, though. Yes. but Which is a, that's questionable.
00:45:57
Speaker
Yeah. Unfortunately, we don't have any cameras to really speculate on this. So going by what we know, um like i know Bill James is pro Pete Rose and anti Joe Jackson.
00:46:10
Speaker
Oh, I think I mean, I'm a yes here. Yeah. um I'll open it up to you too. I'm a yes as well. This is, this is a guy that deserves to be in, I think. Josh.
00:46:26
Speaker
Uh, I broke him.
00:46:33
Speaker
No, what? Uh, not because of his stats. I mean, again, you're getting the speculation, but I'm pretty sure it's pretty well known that he took money to throw.
00:46:47
Speaker
So you're a no on Joe Jackson. Whether he threw or not is up for debate. But he took the money. So you're a yes to Rose, but no to Jets. Oh, yeah. This is wild, dude.
00:46:59
Speaker
Wow. I mean, he does have better stats than Chuck Klein, though. So I would have put him in for his stats. ah But... So here's the thing. i don't know, man. He took the money. Yeah, but he didn't compromise.
00:47:14
Speaker
i I don't know. Max said there's some errors, but... He did make some errors. He did make errors. Let's see if we can find the exact numbers here. I mean... Seacott was the one that started the whole thing. He took the money and he absolutely threw it. Actually, he has zero errors recorded.
00:47:30
Speaker
In that World Series? Yeah. And what was his average again? 356, was like. said 400. Okay, 350. All right, I take it back. Put him in. Okay, I just took him out of the spreadsheet. Damn. 375 to 956 OPS.
00:47:45
Speaker
All right. I'm blaming you for lying to me on this one. Okay. Okay. We'll fix that. i can I could have swore there was something about errors. Maybe it was just that he didn't feel well. He didn't get like called with the error. I don't know.
00:47:57
Speaker
But if you if you were throwing, you'd think you'd be batting 100. ah hundred Yeah, but those games were such blowouts that he could have done it in the ninth inning, eighth inning. Josh is a game breakdown guy. He should have that covered.
00:48:11
Speaker
I actually do remember that there was like a throwaway home run or something by somebody in Chicago. I remember him saying that. Yeah. So... we're We keep Joe Jackson in the Hall of Fame.
00:48:23
Speaker
Now they are officially championship most Hall Famers now that they are deemed eligible. So with that in mind, they can no longer be taken out. You can change your opinion, but they are in. Their plaques have been chiseled and they are ready to go.
00:48:36
Speaker
I have one more thing for you guys on this before we get into more of the ramifications and stuff. And I know we're running long and I'm sorry. this is what But I do want to talk you guys about two things. Number one, some of the guys who were reassadated who are not named Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe.
00:48:53
Speaker
um A lot of them are the Black Sox. There's some other guys that were thrown out for gambling and things like that. There are two other ones that stick out to me. So Buck Weaver was on the Black Sox. You may remember that name from 1919.
00:49:05
Speaker
Buck Weaver was banned even though it was proven he didn't take any money. He knew about it and didn't report it, so they banned him. So now he's back in baseball's good graces. Welcome back, Buck Weaver. I'm happy for you. Because I don't know if I would have had the guts to speak up on that either.
00:49:23
Speaker
I really don't. He did the snitch. He was a good friend, and he took the fall. One could say he was baseball's Bobby Schmerda.
00:49:35
Speaker
Oh, God. He took the fall so his team could lose. I don't know, man. He took the fall. You think he was going to get shot or something? Can you imagine not reporting it, not taking any money, still getting mad? Yeah, that's real. I would just be the most bitter jerk for the rest of my life.
00:49:58
Speaker
And the last one that i found interesting before I get to my last is he a Hall of Famer? It was Benny Koff. Welcome back, Benny Koff, to baseball. He was banned for stealing a car, allegedly.
00:50:11
Speaker
KSRM Atlantis banned him because he thought it looked bad for the sport. I'm sorry, he he's out because of what? He stole a car. Benny Koff, K-A-U-F-F.
00:50:22
Speaker
He allegedly stole a car. And KSRM Atlantis didn't like the optics, so he banned him.
00:50:31
Speaker
But meanwhile, today we have to bingo Hermann in league. and our oldest Chapman, and Marcelo Zeta.
00:50:39
Speaker
Just a little food for thought, guys.
00:50:43
Speaker
um That is... Right? Dude, that's a wild. Yeah. Dude, he didn't even get... got acquitted. He got acquitted of the crime.
00:50:57
Speaker
Yes. Well, technically speaking, the Black Sox got acquitted too in law and the court of law. Oh my God. They got acquitted too. Kiesel Mountain Landis was a power hungry guy and did what he did. Like,
00:51:15
Speaker
yeah. So that really happened. I wanted to shout that out because I wasn't sure if you guys knew or if you saw like the list of guys who got banned. That was the one that really stuck out to me. Literally banned for allegedly stealing a car.
00:51:28
Speaker
okay i'd Okay, I'd like to say, by the way, looking at this one from Koff, is that ah he appealed the he appealed the case um to the courts, and the judge just said that there's been an an injustice done.
00:51:42
Speaker
But because there's no contract between Koff and the league, there's nothing he can do, basically, is what he said. So he got blackballed. Yeah. Which sucks. So welcome back, Betty Koff.
00:51:55
Speaker
I know it's a little late. I hope you've been you know looking forward to this moment. So welcome back. So now, Zach, I hope you are here for this. i am here. Because we have a game for Is He a Hall of Famer?
00:52:09
Speaker
And we talked about him a lot in 1919. i should have done this in 1919. don't know why I didn't. But we know the good, the bad, and the ugly. We talked about Eddie Seacott quite a bit. And now that he's reinstated, I think it's only right that we talk about him in a Hall of Fame context.
00:52:24
Speaker
So is he a Hall of Famer? a 14-year career, even before ineligible players weren't allowed to be voted on, or sorry, were allowed to be voted on, like you talking about Joe Jackson got some votes, Seacott never received a vote.
00:52:36
Speaker
Joe Jackson got some votes here and there. Seacott never did. He went 209 and 148 on his career with 2.38 career ERA and a 123 ERA+. He led the league wins twice with 28 and 29, led the league in ERA once with 1.53 in 1917, and with twenty eight and twenty nine league in erara onces with a one point five three and nineteen seventeen Ludwig in innings pitched twice and whipped once.
00:53:00
Speaker
His war, Josh, get ready, was 59. Now keep in mind, he got banned at the age of 36. Wait. He got banned at the age of 36. So his career may sound like it was over for that time period, but his final four years went like this. 28-12 with war. 3.6 war.
Current Players & Hall of Fame Considerations
00:53:19
Speaker
So lost lot of games, but he didn't get run support. He got the Paul Skeen's treatment. 29-7 with a 9.7 war and 21-10 with a 5.1 war. It was not out of the realm of possibility that he could have finished with 250 wins and like 75 war.
00:53:36
Speaker
So what could have been? His three most similar pitchers on Baseball Reference are Stan Kowalewski, Chief Bender, and Jack Chesbrough. All of them are in the Hall of Fame today based on the career that was totally finished.
00:53:50
Speaker
What his career was, that's what he was compared to. Is he a Hall of Famer?
00:53:56
Speaker
Oh boy. you I had something for you. This is tough. This is really tough. You might have sold me with everybody he's compared to if they were finishing their career as a Hall of Famer.
00:54:15
Speaker
His peak is... isn't That 1917 year is great.
00:54:21
Speaker
I might have to go yes just to throw him in. Josh...
00:54:33
Speaker
This is tough. this i mean big this is This is actually really tough. yeah um
00:54:42
Speaker
But I mean, he threw though, didn't he? he did. mean, he made i mean he made some bad errors. But in his defense, Comiskey screwed him over quite a bit too.
00:54:54
Speaker
so yeah Yeah, I mean, Comiskey deserved it every every little bit. Honestly, i mean... You're not wrong. I mean, this guy makes the A's manager to look really... you know, the A's owner look really good, honestly. Yeah.
00:55:12
Speaker
However, as I've said before, it only matters what he does on the field. And he took the money and he threw. so i and and And it's very pretty pretty clear that he threw. So I'm going to say no.
00:55:23
Speaker
He did a lot of uncharacteristic things. So i'm going to say no. yeah Well, I agree with one of you. And it's not me! What? And it's not me.
00:55:36
Speaker
Yes, it is. Wow. I do. Not for the reasons you illustrated. um As much as I would like to you know go with the what might have been, and I wanted to sell it to see how we would feel about it, I can't really justify the what might have been career when he threw games and got banned. I get that.
00:55:59
Speaker
like if i I don't even buy in my own argument. I just wanted to see what you guys would say. He's a very borderline case based on his career. I honestly think that you know if he didn't get banned, he probably would have been in right now.
00:56:13
Speaker
I don't know if he would have been in the basement or level one for me if that was the case. I have him in the basement right now. I'm not against changing that. you know He might come out in 2028 and we might be revisiting this.
00:56:25
Speaker
Right now I have as a no. like It's one thing if you're out for – if you get a career-ending injury or if you're like um Chuck Klein and you fall off a cliff but you're playing. This guy got banned for betting on baseball.
00:56:39
Speaker
If he's borderline, he's out. I think that's where I'm at.
00:56:46
Speaker
Definitely a tough case. And I don't... You know... These are really tough things. Like you said, this Veterans Committee coming up in a few years. i would love to sit in on it. Yeah. I don't envy those guys one bit.
00:56:58
Speaker
I do. i would love to sit in on this. But i I do... Now my question for you guys is now that we did the yes-no. I know we ran super long on this, but it's... We can run it to our pod. I don't care.
00:57:10
Speaker
um Now that we did it with... you know Yes, no, we agree on Rose and Jackson. Or we don't agree on Jackson, rather. or we do agree on Jackson now, right, Josh?
00:57:22
Speaker
You change your mind? Yes, because he has no errors. Would you have – let's say our the committee ballot, we can only put eight guys on it. Let's say it's Pete Rose, Shulis Joe, John Donaldson, Steve Garvey, Keith Hernandez, Thurman Munson, Louis Tiant, and Tommy Johns.
00:57:44
Speaker
Are you voting for Pete Rose and Joe Jackson as one of your three guys on that list? i I'm not. I don't know. i think Pete Rose might be one, but also can you make that vote knowing that it's going to canceled out, right? Like I just don't know.
00:58:00
Speaker
That's the thing. i guess it depends on who's on the committee. i I just got to say I hate that. I hate that argument. of well, I'm to vote for this guy because my vote's going to canceled out because then you just have a bunch of people do the same thing and then nobody votes for the guy.
00:58:15
Speaker
I think that is an absolutely ludicrous statement. i I cannot stand that statement. Well, then tell the Hall of Fame stop doing voting limits and do an up-down yes-no. Oh, I absolutely agree, but it's the say it is literally the same crap you hear in actual elections you know in America. It's like, oh, I'm not going to vote because my vote just gets canceled out. I live in a red state. No, no, no, no, no.
00:58:33
Speaker
that That's basically what it is. There's no no point in voting for this guy because no one else going vote for him. No, it's not. it's there's I'm not voting for but for Pete Rose because I feel that Dale Murphy is also deserving of the Hall of Fame. And if I vote for Pete Rose knowing full well that vote's getting wasted, that's going to screw over a deserving player who didn't do anything wrong.
00:58:52
Speaker
That's what it is. It's an informed decision knowing who else is on the committee. if i I would only do it if I feel the person below the Hall of Fame. If it's Pete Rose, Joe Jackson, and six guys who've have no business being in, I would vote for Rose and Jackson anyway.
00:59:06
Speaker
But if, if it's a guy like Thurman Munson, who I am, so I do believe should be in, I'm going to vote for Thurman Munson. If it's Tommy John, I'm going vote for Tommy John.
00:59:18
Speaker
If it's Ken Boyer, I have my reservations. I probably vote for Rose or Jackson there. But if it's someone who I feel is clear with someone who I do feel is deserving, maybe not quite as deserving as those guys, but has an actual chance to get in,
00:59:33
Speaker
I'm going to bump that guy up. I mean, listen, um unless you're in that room to do the vote and you've already talked with other people and have made definitive answers on who you're voting for, yeah I cannot condone making a statement like that.
00:59:47
Speaker
You're going to see as soon as that happens, it's going to be Barchi Amati's son. It's going to be Jane Forbes Clark herself. They're going to stack this committee so hard to keep them out. It's so political. It's ridiculous.
01:00:00
Speaker
I have no problem confidently saying that Rosen Jackson aren't going to get in. Yeah. They're going to stack the deck against them. I'll be surprised that they get more than the three votes to stay on after two years.
01:00:12
Speaker
I think this is going be the quickest, like stack the deck against them, sift them away and move on. It was almost no part of this. It was almost easier when they were banned, right?
01:00:23
Speaker
Like, yes, much. That's why they did it in the first place. The whole was, it's the same people in charge of the hall of fame that were in 19. They don't want Pete Rose there. they're They're going to do everything they can to keep him out.
01:00:35
Speaker
Now, if I'm on the committee, i I do. I convinced the committee to protest vote. That's just me. It's all vote for Pete Rose. Of course.
01:00:45
Speaker
It'll never happen.
01:00:48
Speaker
That's why think it's the biggest piece of news in Hall of Fame history, maybe. But it also does nothing. Right. Yeah, exactly. It's such a weird story.
01:01:01
Speaker
it's It's Manfred just playing both sides and and literally not doing anything. it's Yeah, exactly. Classic. Yeah. So now when Juris Familia dies, is he now reinstated?
01:01:13
Speaker
Oh! Not Juris Familia, I'm sorry. Henry Mejia. Oh! No, I'm closer. And he ain't getting in. yeah My bad. Henry Mejia I met, right? That's the guy's name? The Met closer?
01:01:25
Speaker
ah Yes. um You have to be good to get in, though. I was going to say, getting in. I'm not saying he gets to the Hall of Fame, but does he join the Benny Coff Club of getting reinstated?
01:01:40
Speaker
I know, because Manfred's probably going to choose relevant guys. I mean, at that point, who cares? This does nothing. It's such a big story, and it's a big deal, but it does nothing. it's It's just a weird middle ground, because I feel like it tries to like try to preserve the history, but also like, oh, like his family shouldn't be able to enjoy it. But for Pete Rose, he will be. like His family's going to be... Well, who knows? He won't get in.
01:02:02
Speaker
But now they're going be even more miserable, because now he's going to up. He's going to yeah, just kidding. Yeah, I don't... and there' There's no way he gets in. I guess Alex and them aren't lifetime banned, but like does that come up if they die? Are they going to be like, oh, let's consider them now?
01:02:20
Speaker
i I do think Bonds, Clemens eventually get in. I don't know about the guys who got suspended. I think there will be push at some point that those guys get in. I think eventually Rose and Jackson will probably get in through, you know, many, many years from now.
01:02:37
Speaker
It's not going to be immediate. There's going to be pushback. And I think realistically it's going to be, you know, when descendants of Jane Forbes Clark are running the hall of fame. Yeah. I don't think she's, she wants any part of this and I don't really blame her on this one.
01:02:53
Speaker
It's a really tough situation. Yeah. But i think they're going to completely stack the deck. Hmm.
01:03:02
Speaker
right, should we move on? any to Anything else? Yeah. i That's pretty much it for me. I just wanted to get that Benny Koff thing in there, and I'm glad I did. But other than
Juan Soto & Media Narratives
01:03:11
Speaker
I think we covered everything. Yeah.
01:03:14
Speaker
Unless Josh has anything add. Not on this topic, no. Okay. Well, we will move on to juan Soto and the Subway Series, returning to New York. What a loser. Returning to the Yankees for the first time. yeah you The Bronx. Returning to the Bronx.
01:03:30
Speaker
Yeah. He did not have a good series. I think he had a few strikeouts, went like 0 for 10 or something like that. 1 for 10. 1 for 10. I saw the 1. mad. You did. I went to the Saturday game.
01:03:43
Speaker
had like a chippy single. It was fine. Bleacher creatures turned their back, the whole thing. i wasn't a fan of that. I thought it was kind of funny. I thought it was lame. Really? I thought it made us look bad. I didn't like it. I think it's nicer than saying just like F.U. Soto. Like I think that's just kind of boring. Well, they were doing that too.
01:04:01
Speaker
To be fair. It's funny. Saturday they were they were pretty quiet, but then Sunday I heard it through the TV screen. I went on Saturday. No one was really going at it much. Like there were boos, but it wasn't – it was more just like you know fun back and forth between Yankee fans and Mets fans. You know, let's go Yankees. Let's go Mets kind of deal. It wasn't like anything bad.
01:04:24
Speaker
and i was in the bleachers and just hearing it on tv it was a lot different um met fans are turning on soto quick though he's not hustling there's the whole thing but my question is like is this whole thing is he happy is he really happy being a met and my my thing is does it matter he's getting paid absorbent amounts of money to play baseball i think he should just figure it out you know what i mean I think this is much ado about nothing.
01:04:50
Speaker
It's kind of like Freddie Freeman. I mean, you got 15 years, he'll figure it out. Freddie Freeman was upset when he signed with the Dodgers and know, now they want a world series. He kicked our butts and now he's yeah happy as a pig in mud.
01:05:04
Speaker
You know, it's all good now. So winning cures all, I think they'll be all right. i think Soto will be all right. Um, but, On the OFCS, they don't. I'm going really enjoy it yeah I going to say, everybody keeps saying that.
01:05:19
Speaker
At one point, Soto was like batting 270. He's batting 240 now. Yeah. I don't know. yeah no I'm enjoying it. i think's I think it's hilarious watching the Mets fans turn on him.
01:05:31
Speaker
ah You know, especially with the not hustling stuff. You know, ah he's done that his whole career, though. I don't think that's that's really anything new. You knew that wasn't him, and he was never a good fielder.
01:05:44
Speaker
As a matter of fact he's a terrible fielder. Everybody knew this, but you take the guy for his bat, and he's just—the bat's not batting right now. It is not. and I mean, app and you know it happens to the guys.
01:05:56
Speaker
but I mean, I've said it before. I think you know he wanted to go to a team where he could he could finally be the guy. He was never going to be the guy with the Yankees. And you know what?
01:06:07
Speaker
He's never going to be the guy with the Mets either. It's not his team, and it never will be. It will always be Lindor's team. It will always be Lindor's team. him And I think he hates that. And I think and i think he's realizing that he the mistake that he made in that regard, that he he will never be the guy.
01:06:25
Speaker
If you wanted to be the guy, you should have went to Toronto. and then yeah Yeah, Toronto wasn't go to give him toronto wasn going to give them that massive payday. That's that's the problem. Well, we can't always get what we want. I think it's also the media. It's the media. I don't think it has anything to do with Soto. I mean, because everybody's media writing about, oh, well, he chose the Mets because of X, Y, and Z. He chose the Mets because they gave him money in years. That's why he chose the Mets.
01:06:50
Speaker
Yeah, I saw Michael Kay was saying something that um he knows obviously people. He said, oh, he sort of himself wanted to be a Yankee, but his family told him to pick the Mets. Do we believe that? Yeah, I didn't quite leave. Kay's saying that and somebody else is talking about how, well, the Mets let him use a private jet.
01:07:06
Speaker
And then, you know, two hours later, they're like, that's not real. yeah it's all Yeah, it's all stories. i don't buy it. The Mets let him have a press box and all this stuff. It's like, I mean, you're just fishing for clicks.
01:07:20
Speaker
It's all made up because they don't want to be able to say that Cohen successfully outspent them. But honestly, um and we said it during, I guess what we could only call it the funeral pod after the Yankees lost the long series and so it to sign with the Mets, that like, honestly, it's, you know, it's stung for about 10 minutes and then it it wore off.
01:07:40
Speaker
It's really worn off for me now. like i didn't I didn't go at Soto once. I i mean, booed him, but like I was very mellow at that game, mostly because it's like I'm kind of glad we didn't rope up $765 million dollars into a guy who doesn't hustle, can't field, yeah that's only going to get worse, and Judge is going to be DH-ing realistically within a couple of years.
01:08:03
Speaker
And how are you putting him yeah how ironic is it that the three guys the Yankees got are all performing amazing this year right now? Yeah, I mean, we got to give props to Brian Cashman there, honestly. Yeah, we do. Yeah, no one would have thought a 38-year-old or 39-year-old. Oh, 39?
01:08:17
Speaker
Paul Goldschmidt would be hitting.350. Yeah, and Belly's around. The only move that he's botched with this was Devin Williams. But even so, I get why he made that move. He's turned a corner. Hopefully. no Five straight outings without giving up He's giving up one hit in his last five outings. He looked great in that Padre game. i i like He's turned a corner.
01:08:36
Speaker
Figures. I just dropped him. No. I mean, he's not the closer anymore, so. Yeah, you're not getting the closer. I've got to roll having the guy with a.4 ERA. only one closer with a lower ERA, and it's Munoz.
01:08:49
Speaker
Yeah. Munoz hasn't given a run, an earned run. Sorry, he hasn't given him an earned run this season. Munoz is not on your team. Never mind. It's on my team. I was thinking of the Padres guy, Suarez. Yeah, he's not quite as good. He's very good, though.
01:09:03
Speaker
Yeah, you know, speaking of Munoz, by the way, I found out that you can blow a save without giving up an earned run. I didn't know that. Do tell. Well, if you give an earned run, it's still blown save.
01:09:14
Speaker
Yeah, if you if are if he scores off an error, it's a blown save. Or if you inherit the runner,
01:09:22
Speaker
it was not it doesn't get charged to you, but blown save does get charged to you. Yes. It's the equivalent to a win or a loss. If you have a save situation, you either got the save or you blew the save and there's no, know,
01:09:33
Speaker
There's no leeway. Correct. didn't Yeah, I didn't know that. Oh, wow. You know, you learn something new every day.
Yankees' Moves & Fan Reactions
01:09:40
Speaker
you do But yeah, dude, I loved – I thought it was funny. The Yankee fans turning their backs on him and bowling him and hollering at him when he made a throw from right field. It took 12 bounces to get the home plate.
01:09:52
Speaker
That was fine. thought the turning backs was just kind of dorky. It's like we shouldn't be caltoying the players like this. They don't want to be here. They don't want to be here. thought it was funny because people were like, well, Soto turned the backs on the Yankees. You brought the team to a World Series, and don't want play with them. You took the money. You went somewhere else.
01:10:07
Speaker
So the fans that have turned their backs on you, honestly, i don't have a problem with that. I think it's comical, but you know, everybody, you know, every social media guy is going out there, right. And this is Bush league, blah, blah, blah, blah. you know, these are the same idiots that were writing. Yags are cheating. Cause they have torpedo batches. So you would click on their story so they can get something.
01:10:24
Speaker
can get 12 cents. Yeah. I'm just saying, I think, I think he could have been more creative personally. Probably. it was good nonetheless. yeah I miss the classic Bleacher Creatures, you know just yelling the names of the wives and daughters.
01:10:39
Speaker
i'd rather I'd rather them turn their backs on than start doing stuff like that. I know, speaking, throwing it back to closers, Mr. Jose Alvarado of the Philadelphia Phillies is suspended for 80 games and ineligible for postseason, which hurts them more, I would say.
01:10:58
Speaker
He's too fat. Are you doing okay, Zach? I'm fine. I mean, it's just unfortunate. He was the best bullpen arm in that pen. And he's gone now. And the postseason is where it will hurt because the Phillies bullpen sucks. i don't know if you know this. They're terrible.
01:11:12
Speaker
Yes, we do. Yeah, and we we know this. But it's funny because I saw the interviews. Dombrowski was so chill about it. It's almost like he knew. He was like, yeah, these things happen.
01:11:23
Speaker
just have to deal with it. And it was like an excess of testosterone or something too. It wasn't even like he took a steroid. It was something to do with a recovery from something.
01:11:34
Speaker
But yeah, very odd. Well, the good news is if he gets suspended two more times, he'll be back into the baseball when he dies. Jesus. That makes it okay. ah okay Okay. I think it's funny. i don't know if it's true or not. the thing i keep People keep saying, oh, well, i god he was taking Ozembeck.
01:11:54
Speaker
Trying to lose weight because he's talked to Ovenly about how he thinks he's too fat, which I think is hilarious because I think he would have turned into CeCe Zabathia. That guy throws 100 and he would have lost weight, turned into Zabathia where he tops out at 95 and then realizes, oh my god, I'm only a good closer because I can throw 100. What happens if I have to learn actually how to pitch?
01:12:13
Speaker
Probably better if he keeps the weight on. this I guess that's the argument because like in reality, if you think about it, for most athletes, maybe other than pitchers, is there any more performance enhancing drug than Ozempic?
01:12:26
Speaker
You have to run thater and jump. That's actually a really good point. yeah Like testosterone, fine. Like I feel like Ozempic would enhance performance more. Yeah, but I guess you're right because he's a pitcher. I guess it wouldn't really matter.
01:12:40
Speaker
like that Yeah, it would actually probably make it worse like Josh said. That's right. Prince Fielder took Ozempic.
01:12:49
Speaker
He's one that I just can't picture being skinny in general. well cc hat Maybe he wouldn't break his ankle. Well, he had to retire because his head couldn't hold his his neck couldn't hold up his head anymore.
01:13:01
Speaker
Oh, Zabek would have helped that. Oh, my God. um Sherm, you brought this up before.
Umpire Decisions & Team Struggles
01:13:10
Speaker
Even if they if the MLB doesn't implement RoboUms, which they will, there should be a review system right now. Oh, dude. Yeah, poor Walker Bueller. got to talk about this Walker Bueller rejection.
01:13:19
Speaker
His strike was right down the middle. I mean, okay, so the context for this, if you didn't see it, the batter before this, ah ah Bueller throws a pitch in on Lindor, and Lindor leans into it very clearly.
01:13:35
Speaker
And Bueller said something to the umpire. Nothing crazy. Basically just said he leaned into it. The Empire was like, you know, go about your business.
01:13:46
Speaker
Buehler was like, whatever. Continues to pitch. Now, Lindor decides, I'm going to steal second base. And Buehler throws one pretty much right down the middle. yeah And because the catcher, I don't know, blocked his view as he popped to catch the ball, Coles is a ball.
01:14:04
Speaker
And Buehler loses it on the mound. Actually, honestly, he didn't even lose it. He just was like, that was right down the middle. Those are an exact words. That was right down the middle. And the umpire instigates him.
01:14:20
Speaker
Honestly, that's what happened. The umpire instigates him. Yeah, he did. And then Buehler starts throwing out F-bombs. And then he gets ejected. And he really starts throwing out F-bombs.
01:14:29
Speaker
If the umpire had just been like, I didn't think so. Or, my bad. don't think Buehler gets thrown out of the game. But if you're an umpire and you make a bad call, now you're whipping off the mask and you're stepping out in front of home plate and puffing out your chest like the big man you are, and you're going to instigate it with a player and then throw him out, bro.
01:14:52
Speaker
Yeah. what At what point is the league going to turn around and have something to say about this? Oh, but they can't because of the player because the umpire. The umpire's union is very strong. I mean, how did you let it get to this point, honestly? i don't know.
01:15:08
Speaker
Well, piggybacking off that, did you see Laz Diaz last night? Yeah, said, my bad, right? Yeah. So is that what you're talking about? He did do that. I mean, that's all it takes.
01:15:19
Speaker
Right. You know? And no one really said anything after that. I have never seen an umpire admit that they blew a call except that one time. The one time when it no longer mattered.
01:15:30
Speaker
When Galarag or whoever said his name. threw it a perfect game and the guy blew the call. And the umpire said, after the game, I blew that one. That's my fault. Jim Joyce. It's the only time I've ever seen an umpire admit to making a bad call in baseball.
01:15:44
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, you got to change this. And it's either the league has to either turn around and start calling out umpires for being crap at their job. or you got to institute ABS, got to institute automated balls and strikes. And you don't have to worry about this.
01:16:00
Speaker
And it doesn't have to be, dude, it doesn't have to be like an every pitch thing. But if you think that the umpire is wrong, tap your head. They look at the board. It takes 30 seconds, not even.
01:16:13
Speaker
And that's it. Game moves on. It doesn't, it does not interrupt the game. It's not that hard. It's equal to appealing to the first or third base umpire. Literally. um check sweat It's not that hard.
01:16:27
Speaker
Yeah. They've been testing it for so long. I just, I don't get it. Yeah. And, um, in other news, the Orioles fired their manager the other day, which I kind of feel bad for the guy because their roster on paper is good. I just feel like nobody's showing up and everybody's hurt. Brandon Hyde.
01:16:47
Speaker
Three managers fired in 10 days. I'm sorry. Their roster on paper is good. Are we looking at the same roster? It's not good. Adley, Have you seen their pitching staff? Well, the pitching is bad.
01:16:59
Speaker
You're right. charlie It's not bad. Zach, it's not bad. It's not bad. It's atrocious. It's the worst rotation in baseball. Zach Eflin was such a bust.
01:17:10
Speaker
ah
01:17:13
Speaker
Zach Eflin was never good. No, he was never good. He was a panic. He was a panic. just i We have to get something. So was Charlie Morton. but Charlie Morton.
01:17:24
Speaker
Dude, Charlie Morton is archaic. He's got cobwebs growing off of him on the mound. He has to get to Golden Corral for 3 p.m. I feel bad for Brandon Hyde. I feel like just nobody was hitting on that lineup.
01:17:36
Speaker
I don't know. To me, that's not him. it's It's honestly probably not him, but someone had to be the fall guy when a team... had that great of expectations, which i um I will say I called that one.
01:17:50
Speaker
Who picked them to win the division? Maybe they should move the wall again. Yeah, sure. Did you pick them to win the division? I can't remember. I did not. I probably did not. I'm not crazy. Huh? I picked the Red Maybe it was me. Did I i don't remember. think you did. I picked the Yankees. Zach picked the Red Sox.
01:18:04
Speaker
Maybe I did pick Baltimore. I'm crazy. i I remember we had three different division winners.
01:18:11
Speaker
Did I really pick Baltimore? I can't believe I did that after after looking at their rotation. I think you did. Wow.
01:18:20
Speaker
I'm dumb.
01:18:23
Speaker
Write that down. Write that down. You said it. But yeah, I don't know. I feel bad for him. They are underperforming severely, but who knows? What are to do?
01:18:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think you kind of expect that guys like Adley and Westbrook hasn't even played, basically. um But, you know, Henderson and... Is it time to say Jackson Holliday is a bust?
01:18:49
Speaker
Honestly, we reaching that point?
01:18:53
Speaker
I mean, what i my my question is, and i I don't really know the answer to it is, was Jackson Holliday ever actually good or is it because of his dad? I don't know. I feel like in baseball, the drafts are so weird.
01:19:05
Speaker
that like Correct. can just be someone's son and be like, oh yeah, you're good. Hey guys, I found the clip. Hang on one second. Give me two seconds. I think the funny thing, by the way, is that he's got another kid.
01:19:19
Speaker
You ruined it.
01:19:23
Speaker
Hang on, I have a quote. going to say that think with the Yankees' injury troubles, this is the year the Orioles will... Alright, you're up. I'm dumb. I am going to say the Orioles will take the division.
01:19:36
Speaker
There it is. yeah yeah but You know, at least I said the Tigers are going win the Central. That's all I can say. That's my saving grace. yeah Sorry, were we going to say it before I cut you off? I said that Holly has another kid that's going to be a top five pick.
01:19:49
Speaker
I think this year or next year. i mean, Leiter, Holiday, Drew Jones. It's basically just, oh, you forgot back dr and you're someone's kid? Okay, we're picking you.
01:20:05
Speaker
What else do we got? The Rockies are really, really bad. I looked at their run differential the other day, and it's minus 150, and i I couldn't believe what I was reading. I think you need to say that again. It's minus 150. And it's May.
01:20:18
Speaker
And it's May. Dude, i think I think all their stars have an ERA over 6. 150? It's really bad. fifty it's really bad I think it's safe to say that if you're playing any sort of fantasy sport or you're betting, um just pick whatever team is is playing against Colorado in Colorado.
01:20:40
Speaker
i think I think it's safe to say that team is going to win 90-plus percent of the time. yeah Hey, I got to pull the settings. You're saying the run difference was minus 150. The other day it was, yes.
01:20:51
Speaker
there's There's no way. Yeah. 159, what? Yeah, one up. Wait. That was 2-0 today, I know that. Wait, so just to be clear for a second, they've lost by 159 runs over the course of 50 games.
01:21:05
Speaker
So on average, they're losing by more than three runs a game. Well, they've only won eight games, so these are losing by a lot more than that, actually. Holy crap. It's rough out there.
01:21:21
Speaker
Wow. Yeah. But don't worry, we fired the manager. that That's going to solve everything. Sell the team, bro. Sell a team. Dude, honestly, honestly, um i'm happy for Bud Black.
01:21:34
Speaker
He's getting out of that. Poor guy. He's always on bad teams, I feel like. He's been so mediocre for so long. Yeah, he won a manager the year one time. Was he on the Padres when they were banned? He won manager of the year with the Padres in 2010. Yeah.
01:21:49
Speaker
Poor guy. Yes, he did. However, he's managing for 18 seasons. Guess how many playoff wins he has. I'm guess zero. One.
01:22:00
Speaker
He's won one playoff game in 18 years. How many playoff games has he been in? Five. Oh. One series. He's made the playoff in two seasons. Oh, a wild card, my bad.
01:22:14
Speaker
One of them was a wild card that he lost. And then he... was he Went one one in 2018. That's
01:22:28
Speaker
rough. Yeah. He's been ejected more than seven times more than his playoff games. Oh, boy. He's ejected 38 times. and what He's been in five games in the playoffs. Oh, my God.
01:22:43
Speaker
um Last thing I had share, wanted to bring up Darren Ruff.
Player Positions & Legal Disputes
01:22:47
Speaker
He's got some lawsuit against the Reds, but I'm sure you can explain that. for Oh, yeah. So i I sent you the video if you didn't look at it.
01:22:55
Speaker
did not. So Darren Ruff was a, um i don't know, journeyman, I guess. He was never a good player. Let's put it that way.
01:23:07
Speaker
But he played well enough to keep a job for a number of years. so It's pretty old, actually. i remember him. Yeah, he was he's been around the block. I mean, he had some playoff heroics for the ah Giants.
01:23:20
Speaker
um I mean, after their World Series title titles. Yeah. But towards the end of it, well, at the end of his career, I guess, he was 36 at the time.
01:23:33
Speaker
um Playing, ah it was an away game at Great American Ballpark at Cincinnati. you know, it rains. They have the tarps on the field as every other team does.
01:23:48
Speaker
And he's playing first base and there's a pop fly down, you know, the, first baseline, and he goes running out, trying to catch it, and, you know, he's looking up at the ball, he's not paying attention, and he runs knee-first into, basically, the side of this, of the tarp, and whatever metal fixture that was holding onto the end of it.
01:24:13
Speaker
Um, and Ruff... was bleeding profusely from his knee, couldn't really walk. They pulled him out of the game. That was the last game he ever played.
01:24:25
Speaker
He had permanent, irreparable damage to his knee. And this was 2023. And now he's suing the Reds and Great American Ballpark, saying that they were negligent ah for leaving the tarp there and and this metal thing that was holding onto it.
01:24:46
Speaker
I think this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Yeah. I feel like I'm off for the guy, but I don't think he has a case. I don't think he does either. Yeah, same. My question, though, is that if in the event that he wins, how many other cases are we going to see like this coming up?
01:25:02
Speaker
ah Aaron Judge should then sue the Dodgers yeah for hurting his toe on the concrete below the fence then. Mickey Mantle's great-grandson can sue for the drain cover.
01:25:12
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. um all the met or every football player can sue MetLife Stadium in the Giants. like There's a lot of... like This is a slippery slope. because At what point does it become any injury? Oh, it happened because I fell on dirt.
01:25:29
Speaker
like at At some point, if you're a professional athlete, you assume the risk of injury. Yeah, no, I agree. He doesn't have a case. you can't yeah i mean He's claiming that there was an obvious and avoidable risk.
01:25:43
Speaker
Based on how it was, how the metal tarp, the tarp roller was made of a sharp metal and didn't have any cushioning or cap on it.
01:25:54
Speaker
And he claims that the team is liable for negligent acts from the grounds crew, reckless conduct.
01:26:06
Speaker
I do think there have been dumber cases that have been won. i My guess is they end up settling out of court. but you know My thing, too, is that the guy was 37, 38 the time. He was hitting $1.90.
01:26:18
Speaker
Yeah, i get over it. His career was over. Yeah, he's looking for cash. He's looking for cash. I feel bad for the guy. Absolutely feel bad for the guy. That's a horrible way for your career to end. And to have permanent and substantial deformities to his knee, whatever that means.
01:26:35
Speaker
um he he gets up out of bed and says, ow, my knee, and then he goes off to his desk. Yeah, I mean, yeah I don't know what, again, I don't i don't know what that means. I just, I don't think he has, I don't think he has a case here. No. I don't think so either. There's nothing here.
01:26:51
Speaker
Because like Max said, every every player is going to be coming for some money then. They can't do that. There has to be something in their contract that states, like, you assume risk. They got to say, yeah we got sign a waiver to go to freaking gym, like,
01:27:05
Speaker
I got one more. got one more. We don't think we talked about this last time. We talked about Rafi Devers last time. Oh, I don't think we did. You're right. Oh, God. Yeah. So Rafi Devers.
01:27:20
Speaker
When the Red Sox signed Alex Bregman, they told Devers, Put your glove away. We got a guy who plays third base better than you. You're in a DH now. And Devers was mad.
01:27:31
Speaker
did not like that. Because he was like, I'm the third baseman. I'm playing third base. Tell Bregman he go play second base or whatever. And the Red Sox were like, we have multiple prospects at second base and shortstop that we're not closing off because of Bregman. Bregman's our third baseman. You are the DH.
01:27:50
Speaker
And Devers was mad. So when the Red Sox first baseman blows his knee up, ripped to him, really phil feel, again, terrible for the guy. ah They were like, you want to learn how to play first base?
01:28:05
Speaker
Because we need somebody and we don't want to have to go out of the organization to find somebody because we don't have a first baseman. And he was like, no. He was like, no, I'm not doing that.
01:28:16
Speaker
You told me to put my glove away and I ain't and ain't coming back.
01:28:22
Speaker
How do we feel about this? um Entitled. Let's just say he's lucky he started hitting.
01:28:29
Speaker
I thought Vlad Guerrero Jr. was a loser for the statements that he makes and the way that he acts. But when they told him, you're too fat to play third base, you're playing first base now, he accepted it.
01:28:39
Speaker
I'm going to be real. I don't really care about it because here's the thing. He's playing for the Boston Red Sox, number one. ah he's that The glove's not coming back, right? No.
01:28:52
Speaker
He's making $29.5 million this year. He's making $29.5 million next year. He's making $33 million the next four years after that and $31 million next three years after that. He will be leaving the Red we are 35 years Wow.
01:29:05
Speaker
and thirty one million the next three years after that he will be leaving the red sox when we are thirty five years old now i I don't care. I'm smiling widely. This is great.
01:29:21
Speaker
but I do not disagree. I'm trying to speak somewhat objectively here. Oh, I'm not. I'm not even going to try to. I just i just can't believe... To make a statement, like it's not ah to me, it's like if they just turn around one day and they're like, hey, like what do you think about playing first base? And he was like, no.
01:29:38
Speaker
But like like a dude on your team just ended his season in May and they asked you, we cannot we do not have a fix for this right now. We need you to play first base. And he just tells them, I'm not doing that.
01:29:50
Speaker
but It's wild. I'm sorry. I love this. I think this is awesome. It's ridiculous, but don't know. I used to pray for times like this.
01:30:02
Speaker
Okay.
01:30:06
Speaker
And that wraps up the 1935 episode of Championship on Bust. Thank you for listening to our very long-winded Pete Rose, Joe Jackson conversation, and we will see you next time for 1936. later. Peace.
01:30:19
Speaker
seal it peace