Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 52 - 1942 World Series- "Stan the Man"
22 Plays14 days ago
The boys breakdown the 1942 World Series in which the Cardinals beat the Yankees and win their first championship since 1934. We have the privilege of introducing Stan Musial to the pod, and where he ranks on a list of all-time players.
*This episode was recorded on 1/7, ahead of the major FA signings*
Current event topics include Josh's rant on Cashman passing up on the latest international signings and Zach's new gam "Gun to the Head"
Recommended
Transcript
Stan Musial vs. Joe DiMaggio
00:00:02
Speaker
As Stan Musial once said, there was never a day when I was as good as Joe DiMaggio at his best. Joe was the best, the very best I ever saw. We'll see if we agree with that when we discuss later on. What's up, everybody?
Introduction to 1942 World Series
00:00:15
Speaker
Welcome to the 1942 World Series episode of Championship or Bust with Mac, Zach, and Josh. We got the Yankees, we got the Cardinals, and we have a lot of Yankee discussion. I'm sure that Josh is going to have a lot to say. Woo!
Game Highlights: 1942 World Series
00:00:29
Speaker
Let's do the World Series stuff first. Josh, you're up, sir.
00:00:34
Speaker
Oh, yes, i have I have so much to say. going to have a great time later. Oh, yeah. Here we are. but But first, the 1942 World Series, defending champion New York Yankees versus St. Louis Cardinals. Yankees coming into the series having won eight championships since their last World Series defeat in 1926 to the Cardinals. The Cardinals came to the series after a 106-win season, their most wins in franchise history, with all but one player coming from a farm system built by Branch Rickey.
00:01:02
Speaker
noted legendary general manager, Branch Rickey, who had more than 30 farm teams at the time. How do you think of something like that? In the 30s, how do you think that? or in the forty s excuse me. ah The Cardinals just absorbed any team that they possibly could and called it a farm team and then started passing guys through the system. I mean, they basically created minor league baseball by themselves.
00:01:25
Speaker
And it got so bad that ah the commissioner of the National League actually made them cut players, like 100 players at a time. Wow.
00:01:36
Speaker
Just because he had so many guys in there. Is that not wild? Yeah, that's insane. ah Anyway. Game one, Sportsman's Park in St. Louis. So Yankees score first in the top of the fourth inning on Buddy Hassett's two-out RBI double. They had another on a fielder's choice in the fifth. And in the eighth, Hassett would single another run, and the Yankees would add two more on an error.
00:01:59
Speaker
Up 5-0 in the ninth inning. Yankees scored two more runs on multiple errors. Red Ruffing had a no-hitter in this game until the bottom of the eighth with two outs go up a single. But he started running out of gas in the bottom of the ninth.
00:02:10
Speaker
Down seven runs with two outs already. The Cardinals mounted the comeback. Marty Marion hit a two-run triple to score the Cardinals' first runs in a game, then scored on Ken Odia's single. After walking Jimmy Brown, roughing was pulled for Spud Chandler. Chandler then let up an RBI single to Terry Moore, and then another single to load the bases. Down three runs, bases loaded, Stan Musial coming to the plate.
00:02:33
Speaker
Don't want to see that. Chandler got on the ground out to end the game. He sigh of relief. Win the game. 7-4. Crazy. Game 2. The Cardinals would strike first in the bottom of the first thanks to Walker Cooper's two-run double. The score would stay 2-0 until the bottom of the seventh when Whitey Kurowski tripled in a run.
00:02:55
Speaker
Johnny Beasley would throw seven shot innings until his wheels fell off in the top of the eighth when the Yankees would strike back with two outs. Roy Cullen-Mine singled, stole second, and then scored a Jonah Maggio single.
00:03:05
Speaker
Then Charlie Keller homered to tie the game at three. In the of the eighth, Enos Slaughter hit a two-out double, then scored on Stan Musial's RBI single to take a 4-3 lead. In the top of the ninth, Slaughter would throw out Tuck Stain back, trying to go from first to third on a single with no outs before the next two batters were retired to tie the series.
00:03:25
Speaker
Game three in New York, saw the Cardinals score first in the top of third on an RBI groundout by Spud Chandler. And then they would add an insurance run in the top of the ninth when Enos Slaughter singled in a run with two outs after runners advanced on error.
00:03:41
Speaker
Ernie White would throw a six-hit shutout, walking none for the Cardinals to take a 2-1 series lead. Game four, saw the Yankees strike in the bottom of the first when Red Rolfe doubled and Roy Cullen by it singled him home.
00:03:54
Speaker
score would stay that way until the top the fourth. Two singles and a walk loaded the bases with none out, where Whitey Kurowski singled in two runs take the lead. Another walk reloaded the bases, before pitcher Moore Cooper singled in two more runs. The Yankees would pull starter Hank Bowery for Atlee Donald, who then proceeded to give up an RBI single Terry Moore and a two-out RBI double Stan Musial, making it 6-1 Cardinals.
00:04:15
Speaker
But the Yankees would strike back in the bottom the sixth. Columbine hit another RBI single after a leadoff single on a walk, but a walk and Charlie Keller followed up with a three-run homer, making it a one-run game.
00:04:26
Speaker
Harry Gumbert came in relief from Mort Cooper and allowed Joe Gordon to reach on an error by a third baseman and then score on Jerry Priddy's double to tie the game. Top of the seventh, two leadoff walks. Walker Cooper singles in a run to take a 7-6 lead for the Cardinals. And Marty Marion would add an insurance run with a sack fly. The Cardinals would add another insurance run for good measure in the top of the ninth.
00:04:47
Speaker
And Max Lehner singled in a run. In the middle of pitching three scoreless innings end the game and earn himself the win, Cardinals taking the game 9-6 and lead the series three to one Game five, with their backs against the wall for the first time in 15 years, Villarizudo hit a leadoff homer for the Yankees in the bottom the first to get things started. But the Cardinals would tie it in the top the fourth when he was slaughtered and a solo home run of his own. The Yankees would get that get that lead back in the bottom of the inning when Red Rolfe singled, fast on an error, and scored on a Joe DiMaggio single.
00:05:16
Speaker
In the top the sixth, Cardinals would tie the game. When Walker Cooper hit a sack fly. Tied going into the ninth inning, Wade Kurowski hit a two-run homer for the Cardinals. The Yankees would try to rally back, getting two men on with no outs in the bottom of the ninth, but Joe Gordon would get himself picked off at second base. What a Jazz Chisholm kind of move. Oh, my God. The next two actors would be retired. The Cardinals would take game five, four to two, and the series four games to one. That's an awful way to lose a World Series. I know. Imagine if somebody like Jazz Chisholm did something like that. Oh, wait.
00:05:49
Speaker
He did. The Jazz hate is unreal from this guy.
Branch Rickey's Contributions to Baseball
00:05:54
Speaker
Of course it is. What a shock. No, it's pretty real. Well, he's a top five second baseman in the league right now, Sherman. Didn't say he wasn't.
00:06:02
Speaker
Okay. So I don't like him. still hate him. Yeah, that's right. okay I really to show you some Nigel Morgan highlights. Yeah. We got to find them. That collab of I'm a boss and him just throwing his glove when he drops a ball.
00:06:17
Speaker
I don't like that. No, it's great. So... We're going to do his heel Hall of Famer meeting style first, and I'll explain why. um i kind of dropped the ball on this one because I haven't really brought up Branch Rickey a lot, and the reason why was I wanted to wait until Jackie Robinson formally integrated, but we all know that story, right? Understandably so, yes.
00:06:38
Speaker
Just for formality reasons, I feel that it's best if we do his heel Hall of Famer now since it's the first time we're really bringing him up. I'm assuming it's three yeses and we put him in as a contributor? Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:06:50
Speaker
That's a guy who belongs to contributor. For sure. yeah Congratulations to Branch Rickey. Welcome to the 1942 class. We might have two, possibly, I guess, three more coming in. I just think, for not to cut you off, but I just think it's impressive that Rickey is almost entirely remembered for, obviously, Jackie Robinson, bringing Jackie Robinson in. When this guy had a, you know, I mean, he built this Cardinals team.
00:07:12
Speaker
All the players he drafted or not drafted, but he got many Hall Fame players, created basically the entire minor league system on his own and won multiple championships.
00:07:25
Speaker
He also played professional football and baseball. Yes. And did that. He was the manager. Yeah, it's crazy how so many people, I guess, i don i people specialize now so much where it's kind of rare to see guys do two different sports or have like that well-roundedness.
00:07:45
Speaker
And he also fought in the war with Ty Cobb. Yes, he did. What a life. heck of what what a life, really. yeah I think we have a real conversation for Branch Rickey as to whether or not he had the best baseball life ever.
Marty Marion's Hall of Fame Debate
00:08:02
Speaker
that's ah that's a really That's a good question. yeah if We could sit down and really think about it. We could always come back to this when we get to the Jackie episode, but I think it might be a possible idea. I mean, there's people that I could maybe throw out there, like maybe like a Roberto Clemente, but this idea of being professional in two sports, fighting in wars, yeah building the modern minor league farm system, yo introducing batting helmets, signing Jackie Robinson,
00:08:32
Speaker
I don't know if there's more, if anybody contributed to any sport or sports in general, more than branch Ricky. It's a really good question. You got me. He might be the guy. don't know.
00:08:47
Speaker
And I don't want to turn this into a Jackie Robinson versus branch Ricky thing. Maybe we bridge them together. But if we put those two guys together, what person or group contributed more to sports? I don't think there's an an answer.
00:09:03
Speaker
Yeah. So the other thing I wanted to bring up completely different topic, but Josh also brought up another name that stuck out to me and that was Marty Marion. So Marty Marion, um I'll save the trouble. It's going to be a no across the board. um I'm not asking to see a hall of famer to you guys, but i did want to point him out because he is an MVP winner in 1944 has three top 10 MVP finishes and has seven all-star teams.
00:09:29
Speaker
um has an 81 career OPS plus and a 668 OPS. So he was your stereotypical 40 shortstop. But what's weird enough, with a 31.8 war, he's actually done really well on Hall of Fame ballots.
00:09:42
Speaker
He's one of very few, and I can find the list because i actually have it from this year's ballot. He's one of the few guys to hit 40% of the vote and never get in. So I read you up those stats. 40% of the BBWA in 1970 that he was a Famer.
00:09:56
Speaker
thought that he was a hole of famer Wow. And he's been up the Veterans Committee five times. Do they give reasons why they like him so much?
00:10:08
Speaker
I think it's just like an intangible thing. like Sort of like a Rizzuto. And honestly, if you put the stats together, he has an MVP like Rizzuto does. He was on some winning teams like Rizzuto was. And you can see where this starts to go.
00:10:20
Speaker
But he had 40% of the vote by the BBWA, which is not easy as we've seen in the last few years. Here's actually the list of players who have finished with 40% or above and haven't gotten in to date.
00:10:34
Speaker
Curt Schilling, obvious reasons. Carlos Beltran and Andrew Jones will probably change that this year. Bonds, Clemens, Sheffield, Omar Vizquel, Roger Maris, Steve Garvey, Maury Wills, Marty Marion.
00:10:50
Speaker
That's it. Interesting. Those the guys who have 40% of the BBWA vote and have not gotten in. And he peaked at 21% on the Veterans Committee in 2003. He hasn't been up for consideration since 2016. He got two years of getting the less than vote to even disclose his total. So I think his candidacy is kind of dead. But he's been someone who's been in Hall of Fame conversations for, you know, a long time.
00:11:15
Speaker
um I don't think he belongs there. I don't think you guys will probably think he belongs there. But I just wanted to kind of shout that out since Josh brought up the name. that's yeah That's something because, yeah, i would i I don't know how he even peaked that high.
00:11:28
Speaker
has to be like a character. It could be quite blatant. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we can go through it more as we go on. he It's not his only time by any means of being here. ah But, yeah, so that's where that comes in. He is actually – here's an interesting contribution. He's the first shortstop in history of the NL to win the MVP.
00:11:47
Speaker
I don't think that's enough for the Hall of
Yankees' Performances in 1942 World Series
00:11:48
Speaker
Fame. No. But they said he had you know some injuries that impacted his career, guess. He won an MVP while hitting... sorry.
00:12:01
Speaker
He won an MVP while 267. His was 362. This giving Lindor from last He had an OPS plus 90.
00:12:06
Speaker
his son king was three sixty two is a this is giving lyndore from like last year and an ops plus of ninety Yes, but you got to remember short steps back then never hit. So it's got to be defensive related. He also was a manager between 1951 and 1956, but when he peaked, it was in the seventies. I really don't get where this came from. He didn't die until 2011. So it wasn't like a sentimental thing. Holy cow.
00:12:34
Speaker
He didn't lead the league in fielding percentage that year. he He led the league four times in fielding percentage, but there are other guys who have done that that haven't gotten in. um Zach will actually really like him knowing this. A childhood leg injury deferred him from military service at what
00:12:50
Speaker
World War II. Oh, we got Zach vote now. God, he does a draft. to Love that guy. but wait so he does I'm so confused about something. He had a leg injury that he can't fight in the war, but he had a leg injury where he could play professional baseball.
00:13:03
Speaker
I'm sorry. i'm What? This guy needs a movie or something. I got do more research on this guy. i I do know of him. I actually have an autograph of his from before he passed.
00:13:16
Speaker
But I don't get where the hype comes in with the BBWAA vote. Because not like he was a yellow Frankie Frisch veteran committee pick. This is a guy who got writers' votes.
00:13:31
Speaker
Significant writers' votes.
00:13:35
Speaker
Must have been something we don't know about. I mean, we've learned that writers are dumb. Yeah. Like the guy that voted for only Dustin Pedroia. Oh my God, I'm going to be sick. Should throw that guy into the Boston Harbor just with the team and just you know leave him there.
00:13:49
Speaker
Guys, he got more votes than Pee Wee Reese in 1970. No. wow no He got more votes than 10-time All-Star George Kell, who some people don't feel belong there. Fine. He got more votes than Joe Gordon. He got more votes than Phil Rizzuto. He got more votes than Duke Snyder. He got more votes than two-time MVP Hal Neuhauser. I get mean, this guy must been the greatest field in the world I've ever seen because he certainly wasn't a good hitter.
00:14:11
Speaker
I don't it. has to something that they can't know about. But anyway, I know we spent a little more time on Marty Marion than we expected, but I wanted to shout him out since Josh brought him up. Not in a negative way, just interesting that the Hall of Fame was very high on him for a while.
00:14:25
Speaker
um Starting up with the actual Hall of Famers here, umpire Cal Hubbard, former New York football giant Cal Hubbard, who I mentioned in 1938. He's the only person still to this day to be in the Baseball Hall of Fame and the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Wow. It's his second World Series appearance. ah He played, I think, tackle, and i think he was the guy who either came up with linebacker or played linebacker.
00:14:47
Speaker
But he was a damn good football player and became a baseball umpire after he retired. So I think it was actually while he was playing, like in the offseason, he started. That's a good life too, Mac. we' were talking about that before. That's a pretty good life. That's that's one that could be in that conversation. um Yeah, even while his football career was going in full force, he began to focus on second career in baseball officiating straight from, I know it's not the greatest source, but Wikipedia.
00:15:10
Speaker
What a good side job to have, though. And he umped a few All-Star games, few World Series, and you know he was he also, I think, became like a higher-up in officiating, and then he was the guy who got hit with the French shotgun.
00:15:24
Speaker
Oh. Yeah. So he came up with a system where, like, basically each ump and ref had a job to do. Like he assigned, like he came up with that whole thing and baseball kind of came up with a new rule book for officiating because of him. So he definitely had a contribution contribution to the game.
00:15:44
Speaker
That's awesome. Wow. Yeah. So very, another great baseball life there. Um, terms of the losing Yankees, weird to say that with this time period, um, but something we got used to now is,
00:15:58
Speaker
Joe McCarthy, his eighth World Series. He has six titles to date. He's the number two manager on my list between Casey Stengel and Connie Mack. Bill Dickey, it's his seventh pennant, has six titles to date. It's his first loss. Went five for 19 with no extra base hits and a walk.
00:16:14
Speaker
He's still level one, number nine, a catcher between Carlton Fisk and Mickey Cochran. Joe DiMaggio, sixth pennant, has five titles to date, went seven for 21, all singles, one strikeout. This is actually his last season before three years of military service where he promptly loses Zach's respect. Yeah.
00:16:32
Speaker
um He finished seventh in MVP voting, and I still have him as a level three. I'm sorry, level five. I don't know why i wrote level three, but he's level five, number four center fielder between Trish Speaker and Mickey Mantle.
00:16:44
Speaker
Joe Gordon. This was actually his MVP season. It's his fourth pennant, has three titles to date. He went two for 21 with a double and seven strikeouts, so not an MVP in the postseason. Level one, number 19, second base between Sheendance and Bobby Doerr.
00:16:59
Speaker
Phil Rizzuto, the guy who I blocked from the Championship of West Hall of Fame.
Stan Musial's Career Achievements
00:17:03
Speaker
Second pennant, has one title to date, 8-31 with a home run. This is also his last season before three years in military service.
00:17:11
Speaker
And Red Ruffing, his seventh and final pennant. Obviously, Josh went into how well he did. um But overall, his stats were not that great. He went one and one with a 4.08 ERA with an 11 to 7 strikeout to walk ratio.
00:17:26
Speaker
And then he went to the military for two years after this, came back for his age 40 to 42 seasons, never appears in the World Series again. So shout out to Red Ruffing.
00:17:37
Speaker
Now we got some new blood. The winning Cardinals. Billy Southworth. I mentioned him once, believe it or not, as a player. He won a World Series as a player and appeared in two, but he wasn't a Hall of Fame level player. This is his first championship as a manager, and it's his fourth overall season as a manager, and it's his third one while not being a player manager. He finished his career with two titles and two pennants, so you'll be hearing his name a little bit more.
00:18:02
Speaker
We typically don't play as he a Hall of Famer for managers, really, because unless they're on the Hall of Fame ballot. But he was elected in the class of 2008 with a lot of other managers and executives, and I would say he deserved it. ah Number 16 manager between Earl Weaver and Bill McKechnie.
00:18:19
Speaker
Now we get some fun. Should i start easy? Why not? Okay. Stay amuse you. I don't know how long I got to go here, but this was his second season. This one's tough, dude. have Have fun with it, dude. It's awesome when you get to talk about these guys.
00:18:32
Speaker
And as a 21-year-old, he had a five-war season. In this series, he went four for 18 with a double, which is probably the only slightly negative thing we can ever say about this guy. Total class act on and off the field.
00:18:44
Speaker
Elected in the class 1969 93.2% of the vote. And that was a time when a lot of weren't getting that. Let's start with this. Three MVPs, four second-place MVP finishes, seven batting titles, led the league in on-base and slugging six times each and OPS seven times, hits six times, wore four times, run batted in twice, and runs scored five times. His career numbers sit down for this. 331 batting average. 417 on base. 417.
00:19:15
Speaker
four seventeen on base 559 slugging, OPS, 3,630 hits, home runs,
00:19:27
Speaker
ah nine one thousand nine hundred and fifty one runs batted in ah hundred and twenty eight point six war this was with missing his age twenty four seasons in the military service and while he was away the year before that he had nine war and a 990 OPS.
00:19:46
Speaker
The year after he came back, he had a 9.3 war and a 1.021 OPS. Missed year of military service, came back in and just destroyed everybody and won an MVP.
00:19:57
Speaker
Yeah, he's like, I'm back. He led in almost every stat. um And also, here's the one that stuck out to me. Zach, we've talked about 10 All-Star games on here a few times. Yeah. House 20. Oh, my God, dude. So he made 20 All-Star seasons. There were some years ah toward the early 60s where they had two All-Star games. he played and or He was part of 24 All-Star games over 20 seasons.
00:20:24
Speaker
And that's with missing a prime year. not a prime year, an elite year to military service. He had three straight years of nine war, and that was with the military service broken up.
00:20:34
Speaker
um Is he a Hall Famer? ah Don't take too long. I can't believe Zach said yes to this one. You can't believe it? He certainly did serve in the military. One of the greatest of all time, man. One of the greatest of all time.
00:20:49
Speaker
I mean, I have him higher than I think most do. He's got to be top 10 all time. So I go position by position, but when I did it originally by hitters, I did have him in the top 10. I think I had him like 7 or 8.
00:21:02
Speaker
um As a right fielder, I have him second all time. I was going to say, what position did you even put him down as? Because he didn't really play one position. I put him down as right because that was what they credit him with on Jaws.
00:21:13
Speaker
So they have him actually in Jaws as the third right fielder of all time. Like that's the JJF-y stat. um I actually have him second. I have him between Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron.
00:21:25
Speaker
Wow. I do. That's awesome, though. That's like an interesting debate. for the For the record, for the record, i just want to put this out there. In his career, he played 2,900 games. He played 1,000 of those games at first base.
00:21:39
Speaker
Played 900 of those games in left field. But he accumulated more and more an out there field and three hundred in field. Yes. So all over the outfield. So he, I would not consider him a right fielder or a left fielder. I certainly wouldn't consider it him a right fielder.
00:21:56
Speaker
So Jaws considers the position that you accumulated the most war at. And what's that for him? Is that like center field? I don't know. So they have him in right. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
00:22:10
Speaker
um So like on the leaderboard right now, i'm actually looking right at the right field draws leaders um in terms of like looking at war. He has it's Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Stan Usual, Mel Ott, Frank Robinson, Roberto Clemente, Al Kaline, Mookie Betts, Reggie Jackson, Harry Helm and Aaron Judge. That's the top 11. That position's stacked, dude, and I have him second. I can i get the Hank Aaron debate.
00:22:36
Speaker
I do. Henry Aaron has more career accolades, has better stats, but he also played 200 more games. And Musial's rate stats are better. They're insane. 976 OPS compared to Aaron's 928. Wow.
00:22:51
Speaker
Higher slugging by.4. Musial's on compared Musial's batting average was.331 compared
00:22:57
Speaker
mu shieldles batting average is three thirty one compared to three oh five
00:23:03
Speaker
Aaron, fun fact about Aaron, and we'll get to that when the time comes, as many home runs he accumulated, he never had a season above 45 home, oh sorry, 47 home runs. He never had a 50 home run. Yeah, my dad likes to bring that up when we talk about Hank Aaron. And I i think Hank Aaron's an all-time great, and I think Sam Usual's an all-time great. It's not a shot at either one of them.
00:23:25
Speaker
I do clearly see an argument for Hank Aaron um being over him. I did this list before I really like would do straight-up comparisons. to yeah yeah I had my stats that i wrote out, and the rate stats won out. the you know The three-time MVP was very big for me, as it still is.
00:23:43
Speaker
um Hank Aaron, did he ever win an MVP? ah He had to, right? um He won one. Yeah. He's also a 25-time All-Star with the multiple years.
00:23:55
Speaker
So, Mac, if we – I know this is very random, but Stan played games in left field.
Comparing Musial and Ted Williams
00:24:04
Speaker
Did you ever put him up against Ted Williams?
00:24:06
Speaker
Like, pound for pound, one of the best – Wow. How does that work? um I can do that right now. They have to be they had to be so comparable. This is just how I'm thinking. I got to be very honest. i don't I wish I still had.
00:24:22
Speaker
Actually, could go back to the old list and see where I had can go through my version history, and that could be where it was at the time to keep it honest. 2022, did I have my position yet in 2022? I got to keep going.
00:24:35
Speaker
i did so i gotta keep going i i don't I can't believe I changed the positions that early. I think... It only goes back, I think, five years.
00:24:46
Speaker
But anyway, ill I'll check it on StatHead. Yeah, off the top of my head, question I think I would go Williams because Williams, I think, has more home runs. I didn't look at the numbers yet, but think Williams has more home runs. He absolutely does. And he's a better... He has a higher average. I think it's in the three fifty s He definitely has more home runs because he has 521. Mutual has more war, but he also played 800 more games.
00:25:09
Speaker
ah Yeah, it's Ted. Okay, yeah. It's definitely Ted. It's definitely Ted. But again, that's like a Hank Aaron thing. There's no disrespect to Mutual there. It is Ted. Musial has more MVPs, but he also played 800 more games. William lost a lot more than one season to military Yeah, William three years to military. That's nuts. And when I said Musial's military service was surrounding three nine-war seasons, um Williams' is three years in military service surrounded four nine-war years and three ten-war years.
00:25:45
Speaker
Oh, my God. So what his numbers would have been if They would have been unbelievable. Yeah. Like, let's say if we take his average of 35 home runs, add another 105 home runs to his total.
00:25:55
Speaker
so we're looking at about 626.
00:25:58
Speaker
um I mean, who knows if he would have played as long as he did. i mean, there's it's obviously like, know, it's hard to gauge. Military service, like I said, is the one time where like I give people a little credit for games they may not have played.
00:26:11
Speaker
he I that. And maybe like COVID or strikes, but injuries, it's hard for me to go there. Because if you didn't get hurt three years before, you would have gotten hurt three years later, I feel like.
00:26:23
Speaker
i don't know. Yeah. But Williams, yeah, Williams would be over Musial. The sad thing is we'll never really talk about Ted Williams. never played in the Series. Oh, that is really sad. Oh, wait, he did play in one, 1946. So coming up soon. There we go.
00:26:38
Speaker
Yeah, he did play in one.
00:26:41
Speaker
Yeah, that was just a random thing I thought of. Sorry, I know we're very off topic now. but No, it's good. Yeah, I mean, use what you can. But 1946 was the year of Ted Williams, so we'll be getting there pretty soon. couple months.
00:26:54
Speaker
I love it. um Oh, one more Hall of Famer, because we got... I didn't realize the same music conversation we had so long. I'm glad it did. ah So this is a bit of a controversial figure, but welcome Championship Robust, Mr. Ennis Slaughter.
00:27:07
Speaker
In this season, he went second in MVP voting, and in this series, he went 5-for-19 with a home run and a double, but is he a Hall of Famer? He was elected in the class of 1985 by a Veterans Committee, but did pretty well on the writer's ballot, like Marty Marion, but a little better. He peaked at 68.9%, and he finished 50% four times.
00:27:25
Speaker
and he finished over fifty percent four times Not a ton of black ink, never won an MVP, but he does have three top three MVP finishes, five top 10 MVP finishes, and 10 All-Star games in a 19-year career with the Cardinals, Yankees, Kansas City Athletics, and Milwaukee Braves. He has a career stat line of a three hundred batting average,.382 on OPS
00:27:52
Speaker
with three years lost to military service, 169 home runs, and about just over 1,300 RBIs of the 57-and-a-half war. Is he a Hall of Famer?
00:28:05
Speaker
I actually did go yes. Okay. um We were talking about this off-pod a little bit, but the 10-time All-Stars really sold me on this, and the career we know I like a career batting average over 300. So he's one of the all-time great Cardinals, and ultimately I did put him in.
00:28:21
Speaker
Fair enough, Josh.
00:28:26
Speaker
ah You know, I'm going to reluctantly, but not I'm not enthusiastic about it. I will put him in, yes. um Yeah, I feel the same way. um Do you have a reason, Josh?
00:28:42
Speaker
Like you said, he doesn't really have any black ink. He was he was a very good player. For a decent amount of time. And yeah, he lost, you know, his 27, 28, 29 seasons to military military service, which is absolutely a commendable thing. And he finished with a, you know, a high war, 57 and a half, which, you know, it puts him right around the middle.
00:29:03
Speaker
maybe a little lower than the middle of all the guys around him are basically Hall of Famers or will be Hall of Famers aside from a couple guys here or there. so So, accounting for the military service, assuming that he would have probably gotten 60, at least 10 more war in those years.
00:29:21
Speaker
I, yeah, I think he would have been. That leaves him right around the Craig Biggio area of 60 war 65 war. Yeah. Yeah. Except that, know,
00:29:32
Speaker
Over video. so Without going too deep, I guess, um and itlaugh it's important to note, um has been a controversial figure because people do believe that he was... um not very happy about Jackie Robinson integrating into baseball. He actually denies this and his teammates deny it, but there was an instance where he did spike Jackie Robinson. Whether or not the intent was there is debated.
00:30:01
Speaker
um Eddie Stanky, who played with Jackie Robinson, firmly believes that he spiked him and said he lost all respect for him after that. And his claims that it's because, you know, he was a Southern country boy and you know, people just kind of spread rumors and that he never felt that way.
00:30:17
Speaker
um So I will say that typically when those things happened, people were a little more willing to say that they outright didn't want Jackie Robinson involved in baseball.
00:30:29
Speaker
So the fact that he did deny it makes me think that that's possibly true. I don't know if I'm being naive. But feel like people were shameless about it back then for the most part. Yeah, that's that's interesting.
00:30:44
Speaker
And the Southern thing is weird. Like, maybe don't say that too? I don't know. But there was an instance where Terry Moore um and Ennis were accused of trying to get the Cardinals to refuse to play against Brooklyn with Jackie on the field.
00:31:01
Speaker
And there's a couple sports writers who were Cardinal, I guess the equivalent of beat writers at the time, who said that this didn't happen. And people said that Ford Frick, who the announcing award is named after, um said that the Cardinals were more fair toward Jackie than most other teams were.
00:31:23
Speaker
So when you keep that in mind, there is some controversy as to whether or not how Slaughter actually felt. the The spike looks bad, though.
00:31:35
Speaker
yeah We'll call that what it is. Yeah, for sure. He is also a former Yankee, so your homerism does probably play a role here as well. yeah um I see him as a cardinal.
00:31:46
Speaker
I voted yes. I'm a little... I'm not necessarily enthusiastic about the controversy at all. Does the Homerism outweigh the Military Service Act? No. I see the guy as a Cardinal. When I think of him, I think of him as in a Cardinal. His number's retired by the Cardinals. I don't see him as a Yankee.
00:32:02
Speaker
Oh, it is. And he was serviceable. like He was like a utility guy, mostly with the Yankees. I mean, he didn't join the Yankees until he was 38 years old. And he hit.253 when he was here. So, no, I don't see him as a Yankee.
00:32:14
Speaker
Right. But i just had to throw that in there. But Zach has a bias toward the Yankees that played in 1940, but not the ones who played now Right, right, right, right. Oh, there's that. um I am not obviously enthusiastic about ah some of the controversies, you know but I do think that's a little subjective with that right now. And I think when we voted for Curt Schilling, I find it hard to vote no to a guy who, you know let's face it, standards were different back then.
00:32:47
Speaker
doesn't make it right but that's just kind of how it was so it's hard for me to apply today's standards to guys from the 40s no i agree um but yeah i have him in i actually have him as level two i have him right field between kind of bookends of baseball history dave winfield and willie keeler so pre-modern and a little more modern yeah Another for me Yankee as well.
00:33:13
Speaker
Dave Winfield. But that wraps up his heel Hall of Famer. I'm glad we got to talk a little Marty Marion. Glad we got to add branch rookie to this. So we have three new members to the Championship of Bus Hall of Fame. We'd love to see it. Welcome in.
00:33:26
Speaker
All right. I just want to wish everybody a happy Shohei Ohtani Day.
00:33:31
Speaker
Oh, my God. Happy Shohei Day. Happy Shohei Day. Every day is Shohei That's all I talk about. Every day Shohei Day. I'm going to get Ben Verlander on here because that's the only thing that's going on in his head.
00:33:43
Speaker
Yes, for the record. I'm going to say Otani is the greatest thing I've ever seen in my life, and I'm only famous because my brother. I hate that guy. I cannot stand that guy. He's very happy today, folks. He's the worst personality in baseball media.
00:33:58
Speaker
Starting off on a great note today, folks. i I would refute that.
00:34:05
Speaker
All right, who's worse? Susan Waldman. No, stop. oh Sorry. She's old. She's just old. She's old. I'm sorry. That's mean. She's just old.
00:34:16
Speaker
Goodness gracious. ro Roger Clemens. Watch this box. Posada's in there and Pettit knew. I can't deal with it. I'm sorry. Okay. um The Oakland Athletics play-by-play announcer I would put over Ben Berlinder.
00:34:34
Speaker
Yeah, but that's not a media personality. ah yeah yeah That doesn't count. Joe Buck. That's also not a media personality. Alright, fine. Jared Karabas.
00:34:44
Speaker
Oh. who do i know Ooh, that's tough. That's that's close. He's made an entire career over Hayden Yankees. I don't know. see John Boy posted like an unpaid internship the other day and people are like ragging on him.
00:35:01
Speaker
as he As they should be. yeah they should yeah As they should be. That's quite honestly pathetic. In this day and age, yes. um we can We can go on the A's if you want. They they tried to ah they tried to trademark Las Vegas A's, and that's already taken place.
00:35:16
Speaker
That's so funny. Vedic, what are we going to do? I don't know if it's sh true, but I think I read like the trademark was already owned by a bunch of fans. Yes, so a bar in Oakland trademarked it once they heard they were going to Vegas. I saw a news story about it. They did that on purpose to to mess with John Fisher, which I like. That's absolutely hysterical.
00:35:34
Speaker
They're just woefully unprepared for all this stuff. I mean, have they broken ground on the stadium? No, right? Because they're fighting with the mayor of Las Vegas on where to put the damn thing. they Yeah. Because they don't have the money to do it. They don't know what they're doing. And Fisher wants Vegas to pay for it. And Vegas is like, no, we're not doing that.
00:35:52
Speaker
and You're a gazillionaire. You pay for it. Right. No, it's embarrassing. It is embarrassing. It is quite honestly pathetic. You want to get into Sherman? You can talk about your your boys, the Japs.
00:36:04
Speaker
I don't even know. don't even know where to start. Murakami to the White Sox of all places. but worry The White Sox spending money is wild. It's only 34 mil, so that's why they keep it for it. thought it was interesting that nobody ought that nobody gave him a contract.
00:36:19
Speaker
But he can't hit a fastball. Yeah, in the same breath that that report came out that he can't hit the ball thrown in more than 93. And I'm i am sure at least 90% of pitchers, if not more, probably more are throwing that hard.
00:36:32
Speaker
yeah So, yeah, that's that's something. But I guess Murakami positioned himself where... He can be the guy on a young, man team struggling White Sox team where he'll get to play as much as he wants. And if he proves he can hit, then he can go get a contract.
00:36:51
Speaker
You know, a nice big one. Yeah. I saw something today, too. There's language in his contract that he's not allowed to get sent down to the minors unless he, like, agrees. So there's no minor league options for him. Yeah, I mean. Yeah.
00:37:03
Speaker
Yeah. I can see that. He's getting sent down. That's an insult. True. Might as well just go back to Japan at that point. Yeah. So I wasn't upset that the Yankees missed out on him because didn't want him. I wasn't upset the Yankees missed out on him. I am upset about him.
00:37:18
Speaker
They don't need another middle infielder. A left-handed middle infielder that strikes out. I am sad about Amai, though. I i thought Amai would be an easy grab for them. And so he goes to Houston. When Amai came out and said... yeah I want to play on a team that doesn't have another Japanese player, and and I want to play on a team that's going to be— didn't say East Coast. He said, I want to play on a team that doesn't have another Japanese player, and I want to play on a team to beat the Dodgers. I don't want to join the Dodgers. I want to beat the Dodgers. And it was just, as Howard Boone would say, it's right in front of
00:37:52
Speaker
This should have been the easiest slam dunk ever. of Cashman's career, and they don't even offer anything to the guy. I just i don't get it. Yeah, I don't get it either. i you You have Garrett Cole's hurt, and he's not going to make it back until two-thirds way through the season, and that's if if he everything goes according to plan, and if he can ramp back up to even half of what he was at that point. The guy's coming off with Tommy John surgery.
00:38:17
Speaker
Clark Schmidt's done for the year already. Rodon has God knows what is wrong with him. He's going to be out at least a month, probably two, maybe even more. Your number three starter is Will Warren.
00:38:27
Speaker
Your number five starter Ryan Yarbrough. You're telling me that getting a starting pitcher was not a priority? I just i don't get it. And the guy said everything to say, hey, sign me.
00:38:40
Speaker
and The guy didn't get a a Yamamoto deal. Yeah, he only got three years. He was breaking-the-bank kind of signing. Yeah, three years, 54. I agree. I don't know why they didn't go with him, but the Cabrera thing is where I don't think he's good enough to be giving up pieces. No, no, no. I'm not done yet with the Japanese players. Akimoto.
00:39:00
Speaker
Oh, my God, dude. all All the reports this offseason have been, catch me with these Yankees have too many left-handed hitters. They need a right-handed hitter. I'm going to lose a right-handed hitter, a contact hitting right-handed hitter that plays a corner infield.
00:39:17
Speaker
Again, it's it's right in front of you. The guy did not sign for for a ton of money. I just, I don't get it. What are you, what are you looking for? What are you doing that a guy like this is available on the cheap and you just don't even go after him after to saying you needed a right-handed hitter? I don't get it. What right-handed hitter is available?
00:39:41
Speaker
Who do you think you're going to trade for? You don't have a good a good farm system. You traded away some of your prospects for, traded Rock Riggio away for Jake Bird. Jake Bird's not going make the team this year.
00:39:53
Speaker
i just I don't get it. I don't get it. I think the reports must be true that Hal doesn't want to spend like there's no other answer. i don't I don't know what else. We're broke. We're broke. We charge $55 for chicken buckets. We're broke. Dude, it Cashman must still be asleep. i He's got to be asleep.
00:40:13
Speaker
This has got to be like the Seinfeld where he's sleeping under his desk. Under the desk, yeah. And then Steinbrenner walks in and opens the door and starts yelling and walks out.
00:40:27
Speaker
And we had the third highest attendance in baseball last year. We average 41,885 people a night. The Aggies make more money more money. They make more profit than any other team in the league.
00:40:39
Speaker
It's disgusting. They make more profit. Between parking and sales and food and jerseys and all that, TV rights to a ah station they don't even own all of, they make more money than every other team in the league.
00:40:54
Speaker
It's an insult to the fans, honestly. It is an insult to of fans. I agree. And I'm tired of hearing all these whining Mets fans and all these other radio hosts and media people saying, Yankee fans need to calm down.
00:41:06
Speaker
yeah There's no reason to be upset. You're goingnna run back the same team. what why Why wouldn't we be upset? They're running back. First of all, it's not the same team. Their bullpen got worse. yes okay It lost two guys out of the bullpen.
00:41:18
Speaker
You are going to pray that Bellinger signs with you, and then going run back the same team that got their asses handed to them in the playoffs. And that team that beat the crap out of them is so much better than they were.
00:41:33
Speaker
i just... But... Let me also put out there, too, is that this whole they need a right-handed bat thing, Toronto beat them up with Gaussman, Scherzer, Bieber, and Yusavage. Which one of those guys is a lefty?
00:41:53
Speaker
Oh, I don't know. which was yeah Seriously, I just don't. We're going to sit here and blame it. Oh, we don't have enough right-handed hitters in a lineup. which guy Which guy that made you look like fools was a left-handed pitcher? ah I mean, just what do we?
00:42:08
Speaker
It's so dumb, dude. But it's right in front of us, guys. trying to It's right in front of us. Yeah, we're going to overpay Bellinger because he has all the leverage. He's either going walk or they're going to overpay him for too many years he's to become the new stand.
00:42:20
Speaker
I'm sorry. We got to let him walk if that's the case. Yeah. i don't i think it's the opposite. I don't think Bellinger's market is anywhere near as big as we think it is. I hope not. I mean, Boris boris built up Alonzo's market last year. He couldn't get anything. the thing But that's a thing. And then he signed for a one-year deal.
00:42:38
Speaker
Right, and that's what I think Bellinger might end up having to do. But not with the Yankees. He's not going sign it with the Yankees. If any moron wants to give Cody Bellinger, who had three garbage seasons before the two years ago with the Cubs, four on a million dollars, have fun with him.
00:42:54
Speaker
He's won an MVP. Yeah, and then he had three seasons where he was flirting with the Mendoza line or under it right after. I know. Like, those three years between...
00:43:06
Speaker
Yeah, he had two good seasons with the Cubs, and then those three years between the MVP season and signing with the Cubs, he had 2-0-3. I know the Dodgers now tendered him, I think, at one point. Like, I get it. 40 home runs in three years. Inconsistent guy, but... And two of them were injury riddled. One was injury riddled, one was COVID. Fine. But 295 games and 40 home runs.
00:43:26
Speaker
i think he I think he just fits really well, and the Yankees lineup takes a big blow if he doesn't come back. So I really think they need him. No, the thing is, it's not only does he fit well, he fits defensively well. Yes.
00:43:37
Speaker
He is a center fielder and that plays the position well. Okay? You don't need Trent Grisham. Oh, sorry. Did we sign him? this is what this is literally this is what This is what kills me, is that they should never have signed Grisham. They should have put all of their money, everything into Bellinger, because he was your starting center fielder.
00:43:57
Speaker
Yep. Because now you've clogged your outfield again. And all of your prospects are outfielders. Where are they going to play? Do you even want to play? Because you have Stanton. Where are they going to play? That means that somebody has to sit.
00:44:12
Speaker
Bellinger has to sit. Grisham has to sit. Judge has to sit. Where are they going to play? It is just doesn't make sense. How do you manage a roster like this? 25 years, this guy's been doing stupid crap.
00:44:26
Speaker
I don't get it. Well, if you listen to what Boone was saying, I think it was Boone. It might have been Cashman. But the they said they're planning for Dominguez to be playing every day. Right. That's awful. That's awful. That's gross, man.
00:44:43
Speaker
you You decided that this year you want Dominguez to play. Where? Where? They ruined him, by the way. They completely ruined him. They've ruined everybody. This is why this is why we had the conversation earlier about Cabrera, and you said, oh I don't want to trade my prospects for that. Why not? Just on principle, I don't think trade them. What prospect have they developed in the last 20 years that's not Aaron Judge who has his own hitting coach?
00:45:05
Speaker
ah Gary Sanchez. No, I'm kidding. Seriously, what prospect have they developed? None. Gleyber's fine. Gleyber's okay. Even though he technically was a Cub guy. ah right.
00:45:16
Speaker
Who did you say? Gleyber. But he wasn't he didn't go through their system. yeah ah Gary Sanchez, who's still around somehow. Gary Sanchez, who was basically out of the league by 28. He was a back to backup to a backup.
00:45:31
Speaker
I do think Dominguez can play if given the opportunity. I don't think he should anymore, though. I think he needs everyday playing time in the freaking AAA at this point, dude. like He can't hit. he's What is he batting in the Dominican League? Like 150? Yeah, something ridiculous. I don't get it.
00:45:48
Speaker
ah But then also, what do you do with Spencer Jones? You've got to trade him now, right? That's the real question. What do you do with him? At some point, he can't sit. You've got to move him. Yeah. that's the case. Poor guy. He's not going get playing time in this Yankees, especially if Bellinger comes back.
00:46:03
Speaker
it it doesn't It doesn't make sense. You have no third baseman and no shortstop and no catcher. But seven outfielders. You have seven outfielders.
00:46:16
Speaker
i I don't get it. You have seven outfielders and four backup infielders. And half a catcher. Because Wells is not a backup catcher. Yeah, Wells is a cup too. Actually, they don't have backup catcher right now either. They actually don't have a backup catcher. We love Ben Rice.
00:46:30
Speaker
they' not Yeah, but they're saying Ben Rice is not catching. They want Ben Rice to be an everyday first baseman, which I'm all for. I am all for him being an everyday first baseman. He'll be the emergency catcher, which is fine. I'm fine with that. would you Would you want them to sign JT RealNutov's like a two-year deal? No. What price? any need of the scientists They need to sign just one guy who's going to play defense.
00:46:50
Speaker
That's it. His only job is to play defense. Oh, Austin Romine? It's Austin Romine. There's guys out there that that are only in the league for defense, and you can sign them to a nothing contract. that That's not hard to find.
00:47:02
Speaker
With that in mind, we're talking about the Yankees ruining people. Does it make you feel a little bad for Volpe? No. Yes and no. Volpe came up. Looking okay defensively. He won a gold glove. Yeah. And they're like, you know what? And, you know, obviously the hitting was never really there.
00:47:20
Speaker
But let's take what you do well and let's have you focus just on hitting home runs. Dumb. Why? Stupid. Why? we we We've had this conversation. This is the Yankees hitting yeah philosophy.
00:47:34
Speaker
They don't care about strikeouts, about anything. They only care about exit velocity. The only thing they care about. It's so dumb. It's awful. Really, and that's the the Yankees, that the only way to cure the problems that they have is to literally fire everybody in the entire organization and start over completely.
00:47:57
Speaker
That's how bad the rot goes. You'll just be stuck in this loop forever. Which is why I can't believe the betting odds are saying that the Yankees are going to have they had the second highest projected wins.
00:48:12
Speaker
In the entirety of Major League Baseball. How? How? i don't I don't understand that. People, Yankee fans, bet on it and tank the odds. Need I remind you that your number three starter is Will Warren with a career five ERA?
00:48:29
Speaker
Wait, who Max? Freed, Schlittler, Heal. Rodon's hurt. He's not playing. dances for susan So it's Freed. Then you have Heal, Schlittler. I'd put Schlittler three.
00:48:42
Speaker
Schmidt will hopefully play at some point. Schmidt's going to come back. But Sherm is talking about the first, like April, May, which I guess. Freed is one. Freed is one, Schlittler is two. Warren is three. Heal is four. would have Heal over Warren. I'd put Heal over Warren.
00:48:57
Speaker
You would. They won't. I know how to do things. Yeah. Yeah. I can't argue that. They don't trust Hill anymore. He got hurt, and then they ruined him, too. Yeah.
00:49:10
Speaker
What if we make Tim Hill a starter? yeah Okay, David Stearns. Okay. All right. I want to see if we get the reference. It worked. I did. Do we want to jump to some free agency talk? I had a quick quick little game. Well, I mean, you could talk about Cabrera because we only touched on it. Oh, yes. Cabrera to the Cubs today.
00:49:30
Speaker
And the Cubs gave up their number one prospect in that deal. And that's why Sherman and i were talking off pod. I just didn't. Out of principle, I wouldn't trade your number one guy in your system for someone like that because Cabrera is unproven. He had a great year, but I i wouldn't do that personally.
00:49:47
Speaker
I agree. The Cubs need pitching. They don't need hitting. They got what they wanted. No, you wanted him. It was a necessary evil. No, I know. You were upset that the Yankees didn't get him, which and and my response was I wouldn't have traded Because what hitting do they need? All their prospects are outfielders.
00:50:04
Speaker
Get rid of one of them. But we can do better than Edward Cabrera. Yes, he's not that good. We can do better. Please, where? Who? Even if it's somebody who's slightly worse. Who? I could use somebody who played more than other teams in two years. leho Who are they signing? Who are they training for? So he can walk through? I don't get it Also, we add on the fact that he had a 1.228 whip. He walks a ton of people.
00:50:32
Speaker
His ERA plus was good. His run prevention was good. Great. The Marlins aren't that bad defensively. So he benefited a little bit from that. His fielding independent pitching was 3.83 compared to 3.53.
00:50:46
Speaker
So what that means is he's going to go to a hitter's park. He's going to go and walk a bunch of guys. and A team that can't play defense. That's kicked. Hmm. Listen, I don't disagree, but he's better than what you have.
00:51:00
Speaker
But then what would happen is he has history of being unable to do anything with their prospects. So why why are we holding on to them? You have to make good trades with the prospects you have, okay? You cannot be trading guys for Jake Byrd. This is the guy that you that you give up. You're right. No, you're right.
00:51:19
Speaker
However, we also – this is where Cashman's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. He makes that trade for Edward Cabrera. Edward Cabrera turns into Sonny Gray, and then you fry Cashman. Cashman doesn't make this move knowing that he's going to turn into Sonny Gray, and you trash Cashman.
00:51:33
Speaker
There's no win or loss there. It's taking that forever. I understand that he has an exact number of trust, but if the guy the guy had one good season, he's coming off a five ERA. Yeah. yeah like We're going to trade our number one prospects for a guy who's had two seasons and really only one full season with an ERA under four? I didn't say they were trading a number one prospect, but I think they could have put up a package together that would have gotten it done.
00:52:01
Speaker
um'm I mean, maybe. But either way, I'd rather package that and try to get somebody yeah more trusted. Even if it's somebody who had a little bit of a worse season. But you know the question is who? I just...
00:52:16
Speaker
yeah I don't like the the thought of, well well, we can just package him with so to get somebody else. But who? Who's available? I'll bite. Mackenzie Gore. I always say he played like crap. He started three-war season. He was five. Didn't you say two weeks ago that you didn't want him on your team? I don't, but I'd rather have him than Cabrera. If you ask for who, if I'm picking one or the other, understand. Freddie Peralta is going to be available. Freddie Peralta is going to be available. Will you trade him for Freddie Peralta? I would trade for Freddy Peralta. I would absolutely trade for Freddy Peralta. You traded for Freddy Peralta, who's going do the same thing that Soto did?
00:52:51
Speaker
I still would. This a team that you want to... You would give up your number one prospect for a guy on an expiring contract. Well, when we did it with Juan Soto, we did make the World Series, and we came fielding our... We came fundamentals away. you think he's the number one prospect for Juan Soto?
00:53:09
Speaker
No, but traded a legit pitcher... We traded several other prospects. They traded other pitchers who didn't pan out. But we did make a very... Why are we holding these pitchers?
00:53:19
Speaker
And remember, when we talk about prospects, we thought Drew Thorpe was going to be this great pitcher. Good, so trade him.
00:53:29
Speaker
Trade him, sell the team. No, Josh. the owner off the roof of the stadium. Drew Thorpe. Drew Thorpe, the White Sox pitcher that we traded. I know who you're talking about. Yeah. He's all right. He's not bad. I'm saying. Where are we getting that trade? Tim Hill?
00:53:43
Speaker
No, that was part of the Soto deal. maybe It was Thorpe. That's right. They flipped him. Yeah, they I guess Yoka, King, Vasquez, and Frito. Was Austin Romine in that too? No. No. Romine was gone for years. He was destroyed. I guess Yoka.
00:53:59
Speaker
Yeah. But what I'm saying here is like you can make a better package and try to get somebody a little bit better, even if you wait until July and get it done then. i'm not I don't want to put all like i don't wanna to go all in on a name like Edward Cabrera, when if the Tigers tank in July, Scoobo might be available.
00:54:17
Speaker
Well, in in in and in the the nature of of that statement, i want I want to read something to you. The Yankees went into last spring training.
00:54:28
Speaker
Oh, boy. Without a third baseman. Right? You remember this? Yes. DJ LeMahieu was your starting third baseman. After telling your team, I can't play third base. My back or whatever is wrong with me doesn't work, and I cannot play this position.
00:54:41
Speaker
Right. And whatever other guys they had, you know, Oswego Carrera, whatever with his ankle, the season's over. Now you have nobody. Because they didn't want to exceed the tax threshold.
00:54:56
Speaker
Right. So what did they do? They traded for Ryan McMahon. they traded for McMahon. Right. Who was the best option at the time. When they could have gotten something better.
00:55:08
Speaker
Well, did we want Bregman, though? I didn't really want Bregman. I mean, I guess in hindsight, that looks really bad. But at the time... i could have gotten Suarez. That's what I want. Again, this is the same team that just paid $50 million dollars to make two guys go away now.
00:55:26
Speaker
We're $50 million dollars to make LeMahieu and Stroman go away because of stupid decisions. Like I said, I understand Cashman's not the best GM. He's not going anywhere. He's the best GM. He's the worst GM in the history of sports. Let's come back. No. This guy's the worst GM in New York history, and that's not even talking about him. Josh, I grew up a Knick fan. I have to stop you.
00:55:50
Speaker
What other GM has has run a team for 25 years and won nothing and been allowed to keep his job? Isaiah Thomas didn't team for 25 years because he didn't win anything, but he was touching people on the side while the fact that he traded for Eddie fucking Curry. Leap it out. I don't care. hate it. I'm not sure his boat has not settled on that one.
00:56:12
Speaker
No, Isaiah Thomas was by far the worst. And the best part was when James Dolan decides, oh, you have sexual harassment cases against you. Let's have you run the Liberty now. Oh. How dumb. And Cashman's worse. That's how bad he is.
00:56:26
Speaker
No, he's no not. He's not. He's not the worst GM in New York right Yeah, he's not. Yeah, ah you're you're making up cases for him being worse as a person, which I agree.
00:56:37
Speaker
if I would make the case basketball-wise, but you don't know the players. Yeah. That's the problem. I could run through it. He's been a job for 25 years while doing nothing. 25 years.
00:56:51
Speaker
If you knew who Eddie Curry was, you would understand what They haven't produced a player in 20 years. If you would know who Jerome de was. I don't know anything about basketball. I know they got Carmelo Anthony.
00:57:02
Speaker
Not with him. He was gone already. Yeah. That was, um, why am I blanking? Oh, my God. That's Donnie Walsh.
00:57:11
Speaker
Donnie Walsh was good. Very good. Mike Woodson era. Yeah. That was when it was good. But Isaiah Thomas is the worst GM in the history of sports and the worst GM in New York of all time. Okay. By far. Let's move on. not There's not a close second.
00:57:27
Speaker
that That's sp's Brian Cashman's number one. No, it's not. Okay, we're going to move on from that. ah um I just want to say before we continue, Zach, because you asked me about Musial versus Williams, I took the liberty of looking up their max scores. Musial's actually, it's funny, he's eighth all-time, Williams is ninth all-time. There you go, dude. I knew it was that close. I knew it.
00:57:47
Speaker
Musial has a better one because he you know played longer and received accolades along the way. But I do stand by the Williams being better thing, but it is close. Musial's up by about 150, but at that point when you're neck and neck,
00:57:59
Speaker
It's you know right there. you know I can't imagine if Williams got to play those three years. I know. The numbers would be f freaking nuts. he might He might have the highest all-time on this thing. Yeah.
00:58:10
Speaker
Because it's Bonds, Mays, Aaron, A-Rod, Ruth, Clemens, Puholtz, Musial, Williams, Mickey. Wow. Yeah. So he could he could have gotten there. But I just wanted to point that out since we were on the topic. No, you're good.
00:58:24
Speaker
um Last thing from me, I thought that the MLB free agency period really kind of kills the sport. So I wanted to ask you guys something, a few questions.
00:58:35
Speaker
What do we think of the idea that the the MLB offseason kind of turns into like the NBA where it's like, excuse me, like midnight, you know, one day, everybody's a free agent and you need to make these decisions between a weak block to like,
00:58:49
Speaker
I think it would really spice up the the winner because I hate this right now. It's really boring. The problem is that the NBA is very fine-tuned with social media. and MLB is not. It's never going change because technically speaking, you know they don't have a deadline to sign free agents like Russell Westbrook was waiting until the eighth hour to sign with the Kings this year.
00:59:14
Speaker
So it's just just kind of the culture of the sport. Basketball is quick, quick, now, now, now. Kind of like the way the sport itself rolls. And baseball is a slow, long process. And I think it's also because in basketball, one individual player impacts you a lot more one individual player does in baseball. Like we talk about eight war players. If we really treat that as wins, right? An MVP guy is worth about eight wins a season.
00:59:39
Speaker
A great NBA player is probably worth 25. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it is significant. I think to that point, the NBA has what they call a salary cap. Yes. rat Contracts. Right. There's not much thinking going on there. I i fit this guy in my cap.
00:59:58
Speaker
And do I, you know, the great players. There's not so much negotiation you can do. like Yeah. I just. young There's no negotiations. Yeah. Hockey doesn't have a limit. Hockey doesn't have a limit. And when free agency opens, most guys sign within a week.
01:00:14
Speaker
I just, i yeah, I don't know. I think it's bad for baseball that this this stuff kind of drags on. And then it's honestly, it's bad for like the players. It doesn't work out for them sometimes too. Because I get, well, actually, I guess if you look at see what baseball is it is slow and methodical and dragged out, that's just baseball.
01:00:30
Speaker
i actually remember there was one year when c Craig Kimbrell was still good and he didn't sign till like spring training. And there was another guy too. I think it was straight after a lockout or before a lockout. That's been hurting guys recently though.
01:00:41
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Specifically Boris clients. It was Boris clients. That's Boris' strategy, though. think it's also a little Boris fatigue with these teams.
01:00:52
Speaker
Like, okay, yeah, you can walk. I mean, unless you're a guy like Juan Soto, who everyone who can afford you is going to want you, you know people will be like, all right, you know Craig Kimbrell had some great years. He probably has passed his time.
01:01:07
Speaker
um i don't need him. I can find a relief pitcher. Leverage goes away. Well, this kind of killed my idea, but in the spirit of moving fast during free agency and um the new gun to the head thing that we've been doing on the past three pods, um this is called gun to your head. i drew up the, ah the top free agents. Does it come with a theme song?
01:01:31
Speaker
no bang ba Bang, bang, bang, bang, but bang. bang ba bang ba Okay, yep. hu na um I'm just going to say a name and you guys are going shout out where you think he's going to go. Ready? All right. Do we want to take turns on this alternate or just script? Yeah, well we'll go. All right, Mike, you first. Kyle Tucker.
01:01:48
Speaker
Oh, I already got banged. Mets. Josh. Blue Jays. Ooh. That's a good one. Bellinger, Josh. Yankees.
01:01:59
Speaker
Mets. Thank you. I would have said Yankees too. All right, Mike. Ranger Suarez.
01:02:06
Speaker
e Blue Jays, I'll go there. Sherm. ah ah You know what's funny? I don't know. yeah I have no idea. I've heard zero about this guy at all whatsoever. I would have picked um Cubs until today, but you know. Yeah, I think that's gone. That would have been my pick also. Yeah. um I'm going to actually – I know it's going to your head, so I'll stick with my pick, but if I had more time, I would say the San Francisco Giants. That's a not a bad one. Yeah.
01:02:33
Speaker
Okay. Sherm, JT Real Muto.
01:02:37
Speaker
Retirement. Retirement. Phillies. Yeah, I think he stays. I think he stays. ah Mike, Mr. Frambo or Valdez? <unk>ve I already used Mets a few times. i Orioles.
01:02:50
Speaker
Mets. I don't see Valdez leaving Houston. He just isn't. Mets. No, he's gone. Oh, he's gone. Mets. You're not talking. He's gone. this is this is This is a, as I would say about Brian Gavion, this is the slammest of slam dunks for the Mets.
01:03:03
Speaker
I would love it because I would get to see him play and I've been looking to. Yeah. But, All right. Sherm, Zach Gallin is a free agent. He is? Yes.
01:03:14
Speaker
Wow. Yeah. All right, guy Brian. Get on the phones. oh Wakey, wakey, Brian. That's your pick. yeah I don't want Gallin. I'm to pick Gallin. I going to say Baltimore. yeah Yeah. They need somebody. Yeah.
01:03:28
Speaker
It's the exact kind of trash that they would want. Mike. Milwaukee Brewers. Ooh, I like that one. Cheap replacement for Freddy Peralta. and Spend money with it. That's assuming Peralta gets traded, though.
01:03:40
Speaker
No, but I'm saying Peralta. I do think Peralta gets traded. You can play Gunn in My Head there if you would like to eventually. But um I think that he'll be the kind of pivot, and they'll assign him to a cheap one-year prove-it deal, and he'll go there. i'm actually I feel good about that pick.
01:03:57
Speaker
Yeah. All right. This is a fun one, too. Alex Bregman, Mike. Where do we think? Boston. Yeah, Sherm? Boston. Yeah, I think he stays as well. There's another Boris trying to get more money out of the team. Yeah, I think he stays.
01:04:09
Speaker
He fits there. Sherm, Eugenio Suarez.
01:04:16
Speaker
Dead. Yeah, kill me. guy yeah i I don't even think about these players. like They're just so insignificant. no I
Baseball Player Transfers
01:04:24
Speaker
like Suarez. I think he stays in Seattle, personally. Yeah, I guess I'll go with Seattle.
01:04:29
Speaker
Yankees. No. They have McMahon. stationly me a hand and i head i can't That can't. That strikes out all season. Another 220 hitter.
01:04:41
Speaker
My backup, honestly you're not to like this one either, would be the he goes home to Cincinnati. Oh, I don't like that. Well, they tried. They had $25 million, right? gave Schwarber wol signed elsewhere they were like, we're not going to sign anybody. Everybody went, what do you mean? You just said you had $25 million. dollars They went, no, we didn't.
01:04:58
Speaker
They put the money right back in the safe. I look i couldn't believe that. And the fans were rightfully upset. I mean, how do you make a statement like that? Yeah, that's bad. but What are you going to say for all the money? Oh, well, it didn't come to us, so we're not gonna sign anybody. What do you mean you're not going sign anybody? What if that's a ploy to, like, yo...
01:05:14
Speaker
lower expectations and then exceed them like the Disney wait times. I don't think expectations could possibly be lower for the rock of the Reds. Yeah, I think that they should hang a banner just like the Pirates offered Kyle offered contract to Kyle Schwartz.
01:05:26
Speaker
Yeah, I saved the best one for last Mike Boba Shad.
01:05:33
Speaker
I think he stays really I don't I do sure. Yeah, i think he stays too. Wow, okay, i didn't expect that. They're definitely trading him because they signed... um Who did they sign?
01:05:47
Speaker
um my god, they signed somebody. I think they trade
Hall of Fame Voting and Felix Hernandez
01:05:49
Speaker
him in July. did the Blue Jays sign? Didn't they get somebody? Did they get... they signed Nakamoto. He's a middle infielder. He's not a middle infielder. He's a corner infielder. Yes, that's why. And, gun to my head, the trade in July will be with Houston.
01:06:06
Speaker
Okay. Okay.
01:06:09
Speaker
To play second base with Houston? Yeah, okay. May not necessarily be second base. We'll see. Well, Altuve plays the outfield now. And Jeremy Payne plays shortstop, and unless he has a heart attack and dies, Bob Bichette ain't playing shortstop on that team.
01:06:24
Speaker
Well, Correa third, Payne you short, Bichette second. yeah Who's their second baseman now? I don't know. Oh, I know him. I'm trying to think. Why am I blanking? this Some loser. Yeah, Altuve plays right field now, right? Left field. Oh, left field.
01:06:41
Speaker
Not very well. Yeah.
01:06:46
Speaker
Well, that was it. Yeah. That was fun. I enjoyed that. Thank you. We need more of those. like that. Yeah. I died. See how hard it is? hate you all. Yeah, but like the Hall of Fame stuff, we all have our already opinions.
01:07:00
Speaker
It was a little different, I feel like. But that was fun. it is like I didn't know where I was going with it in the moment either. Yep. um Do we want to do a Hall of Fame update? Do we have more free agency? No, that was it. So we can do that if you want.
01:07:13
Speaker
Okay. So... Baseball Hall of Fame update, I'm pulling it up now. Thibodeau Hall of Fame tracker actually did update since when Zach and I guessed it on another pod.
01:07:24
Speaker
Check that one out. I'm sure we'll discuss that. um But right now, unfortunately, the tracker half the time doesn't work. I got lucky. It worked this time, so that's beautiful. So 147 votes in which just under Carlos has
01:07:41
Speaker
Andrew Jones has 83%. Chase Utley has 66.7%. Felix Nen 58.5%. What are you growing about there? Andy Pett at 55.8, A-Rod 47.6, Manny with a solid debut so far, Jimmy Rollins Mark Burley david wright nineteen point seven omar and francisco rodriguez at twelve point nine everyone else is under five percent including tory hunter and ryan braun
01:08:15
Speaker
um wow there's a lot here um King Felix is already in on the top 20 leaderboard for most net gain votes on public ballots.
01:08:27
Speaker
We like that. Every single
Rethinking Hall of Fame Criteria
01:08:29
Speaker
person on that list is either in the Hall of Fame or Andrew Jones.
01:08:34
Speaker
Some took a veterans community to get there, but he did get there. Zach, also, Josh, you weren't on for it, but he mentioned something on the other podcast about Felix Hernandez, and I would like you to share that. I'm i'm glad you have your press thoughts. Well, not on our own podcast.
01:08:50
Speaker
i was um I read Brian Hoke's article about why he was voting for Felix. and Didn't you not vote for Felix? He did not. Would you let me speak?
01:09:01
Speaker
He said that he has to consider what the starting picture what a Hall of Fame starting pitcher looks like moving forward in the modern era, and he thinks that Felix fits that bill because guys like... Verlander and Scherzer aren't going to be around anymore. Nobody's getting 200 wins. Nobody's hitting 3,000 strikeouts.
01:09:17
Speaker
And somebody like Felix fits that. And it actually really resonated with me. So I think next year you might see some change of votes on my ballot. Now, Josh, do you see a problem with this? ye What was that?
01:09:29
Speaker
Do I see a problem with this? Yes. Why? I have a problem with this, and the problem is that that's the same thing that I've been saying for three ballots now. Okay. it Brian Hope is the one that resonates with you. Sorry. That's true. there an next true mic is not you time the This for I've said this on at least 10 pods. Zach edits them. He's heard this at least 10 times. I understand that he completely goes in one ear out the other when I talk, but...
01:09:57
Speaker
I mean, I've been saying that exact same thing word for word, essentially, that we're going to have to rethink starting pitchers. That's why I gave Cole Hamels my vote, actually. But I do like that you're finally coming around.
01:10:11
Speaker
I look forward to you saying that eventually, like anyone that holds the all-time saves record season and has 400 saves should probably be in the Hall of Fame as well. Yeah, yeah that'll take another five years. I like how Zagy's coming around. The magic numbers are just, they don't mean that much anymore.
01:10:27
Speaker
Yeah, because, yo, I don't know. Jack Curry will say it. What are you groaning about? Don't do that.
01:10:36
Speaker
Don't do this right now. You know exactly where I'm going with that. I'll kill you. I'll kill you. Don't do that. um I'm having a good pod. It was fun. Yeah, ah dude, I'm so glad you came up with this thought on the wrong podcast.
01:10:50
Speaker
Kill yourself. Like, I guided him, so it's partially me. You've been trying guide him for 10 podcasts and figure it out. that is That is fair. yeah i guess the definition of insanity isn't exactly true because I have gotten different results after doing the same thing over and over again. You know what I think really resonates with me is actually physically doing it when I actually go and sit down and do it that I really, really think about it. And when I was doing it again, i was like, wow, this actually does kind of make sense.
01:11:18
Speaker
And I still hesitate on Felix and Hamels a little bit, but like I, the main thing with me and it's what I've said before, especially with the Johan Santana thing, I don't want to be wrong.
01:11:30
Speaker
Um,
Carlos Beltran and Sign-Stealing Scandal
01:11:31
Speaker
and I don't want them to fall and and they won't now, but I don't want them to fall under 5% and, you know, not be heard from again when I'm actually legitimately considering them.
01:11:41
Speaker
Bobby Bray, you can fall off the ballot. Oh no, he needs to go. um Yeah. That needs, that needs to be done. I'm sorry. no, But in terms of Felix, you know he was a dominant pitcher for a long time. and in but Not for a long time, but for like five, six years.
01:11:58
Speaker
And when we look at how the Hall Fame is going to be now with these guys coming up after this generation, it's going to be tough. I'm not 100% sure if I'm going to vote for him next year, but I voted for him this year.
01:12:10
Speaker
And um i'm I'm still better than Dan Shaughnessy's ballot, who only voted for Dustin Pedroia this year. That's the worst ballot all year. That's actually worse than Hunter Pence.
01:12:22
Speaker
I don't know. It's significantly worse. I don't know if Hunter Pence can't vote for other people. With Hunter Pence, it was at least, you know I feel these are the deserving players. I have room on my ballot. Shout out Hunter Pence. I can live with that.
01:12:37
Speaker
i can let as If 300 people shout Hunter Pence, he has a flag in Cooperstown. Yeah, no, I don't. I can't get behind the Hunter Pence thing. I just can't do it.
01:12:48
Speaker
But yeah, so we're looking at pretty much – I mean Beltran is essentially locked in now. He had a rough start, but now all of a sudden it really – like it changed. And what really changed for him was that first-time voters with MLB Network and others.
01:13:02
Speaker
30 first-time voters and Beltran is 30 for 30. Wow. Every single one, every single first-time voter has voted for Carlos Beltran. That's crazy.
01:13:15
Speaker
um Chase Utley has 26 of 30.
01:13:21
Speaker
Andrew Jones has, I believe, 25 of 30, I believe. um And Felix has 23. So the first-timers are really bumping some of these guys up.
01:13:38
Speaker
So they don't care about the sign scandal at all, these new voters on MLB.com, huh? Not at all. Not even slightly. Interesting. Pettit's also doing decently well with the 30. He's 21 30. Well, you're a big fan of the ah the Brian Hoka article, ah you saw that he wrote, ah look he voted for Beltran because he believed that Beltran already paid the price by losing the coaching job with the Mets.
01:14:02
Speaker
I kind of get that. I highly disagree with that statement. okay But I can understand how people can get behind that. I think he was unfairly scapegoated. Oh, I agree that he was unfairly scapegoated. That doesn't mean that he wasn't a massive part of a so ridiculous scandal, and I would hope it was all the players.
01:14:22
Speaker
I don't disagree, but are you going to put in – I know you – already answered. You already got my not going to you. I'm not going to help you. i I disagree with it. I do. But I also have to be consistent of my take, and I do appreciate that you're consistent with yours. You don't think the Starry guys should be in, so you don't think this should be in either. I think they should be in, so I think i have to think these guys should be too.
01:14:42
Speaker
I think if you cheat, that affects the integrity of the game. You should not be in the Hall of Fame. I think you have
Inconsistencies in Hall of Fame Voting
01:14:47
Speaker
more integrity than the people who are voting for Beltran and not A-Rod. I do. Yeah, that stuff's wild too. Yeah.
01:14:54
Speaker
I think it's not integrity. I think it's called intellect. And some of these people are just straight up dumb. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of them are, unfortunately. And I understand that Pettit never got suspended, but and I voted for Pettit.
01:15:07
Speaker
But how can you vote for Pettit and check – and we were saying this on the other How can you vote for Pettit and check his box and just say, yeah, A-Rod, nah. Yeah. I don't – dude, I really don't think that some of these guys actually sit down and think about their ballots. They go, oh, that was a good player. Let me check that and then mail it in.
01:15:23
Speaker
Yeah. I really – I cannot imagine that they're sitting there doing more than that because it's just wildly inconsistent. But it's funny because they write the columns, and the columns actually do look like they have thought into it. So I don't even want to go that far.
01:15:37
Speaker
Like it's just their thoughts are just objectively wrong. Well, did we know what the guy said about Dustin Madroy who voted for just Dustin Madroy? It's a paywall, and i'm not I'm refusing to give them my money after that. Yeah, don't give them your money. Yeah.
01:15:50
Speaker
and And that wraps up our 1942 installment of Championship or Bust. Thank you for listening, and we will see you next time. Hopefully, by the time this gets posted, Brian Cashin will have made some kind of move and make us look stupid. No. I doubt that'll happen, but we'll see. See you guys.
01:16:05
Speaker
Peace.