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Episode 35 - 1930 World Series and Mourning the 2024 World Series
25 Plays1 year ago
The boys are back- and sad about how the 2024 World Series went down. We go over The Philadelphia Athletics winning another championship in 1930 over the Cardinals, and then quickly pivot to talking about the Yanks loss against the Dodgers.
What can the Yankees do to improve?
Who will sign Soto?
When will the Yankees learn fundamentals?
We discuss it all on the latest episode of Championship or Bust!
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Transcript
The Hosts' Return and World Series Discussion
00:00:03
Speaker
Well, as Derek Cole and Anthony Rizzo said, you got it, you got it. So, Zaki, you do the intro tonight. Go. Ah, just kidding. What's up, everybody? Welcome to a 1930 episode of Championship or Bust with Mac, Zach, and Josh. I gotta say, it's been a really long... I think it's actually been the longest we've gone without doing an episode since we started up the podcast, but we're back and we're better than ever. A lot's gone down since then. Zach was in Switzerland for some reason, Josh and I did a playoff preview and award predictions, and now the World Series is over and, um well, we're sad.
00:00:37
Speaker
but I think it's good that we waited. I don't know if it says the word I'd use. Uh oh. But I think it's good now that we waited because now we're refreshed, we're recovered, we're calm, cool, collected, and now we can look at the theories.
00:00:52
Speaker
Now we can look at the series with no emotion whatsoever. And this can give me a calm, dignified, and professional podcast. Yeah, right.
1930 World Series Recap: Athletics vs Cardinals
00:01:00
Speaker
ah Josh, let's get started with the 1930 series so we can all talk about 2024 and we can all get evicted from our respective apartments. Go ahead. Yeah, send it to the guy that's the most calm and dignified.
00:01:14
Speaker
Anyway, the 1930 World Series. The defending champion, Philadelphia Athletics, and the St. Louis Cardinals. This would be the final World Series where both teams' uniforms did not have numbers. Wow. I can't believe in 1930 they weren't wearing numbers.
00:01:31
Speaker
that's anyway Anyway, Game 1, October 1, 1930, in Chi Park, in Philadelphia, the athletics sent Lefty Grove to the mound against Burley Grimes. While the athletics managed just 5 hits off Grimes, every hit was for extra bases, and every hit manufactured a run.
00:01:47
Speaker
Jimmy Fox triple followed by a sack fly started off the scoring in the second inning for Philadelphia but the Cardinals would strike back in the top of the third by loading the bases on three straight singles and scratch it across two runs on a sack fly. Al Simmons would tie the game in the fourth on a solo shot. In the sixth the athletics took back the lead on a Jimmy Fox RBI double and it added an insurance run in the seventh and eighth innings a Mule Hoss triple and an RBI ground out and a Mickey Cochran home run. The athletics would take game one by a score of five to two.
00:02:16
Speaker
game two, the athletic jump out to an early two nothing lead in the bottom of the first thanks to him Mickey Cochran two out to run home run. George Watkins would Homer for the Cardinals in the top of the second, but that's the only run to Cardinals will be able to score. George Earnshaw would allow just six hits, one walk and one run to athletics. Al Simmons, Bing Miller, Kimmy Dykes would all drive in runs for the athletics in a six to one victory.
00:02:42
Speaker
ah The series would then shift to St. Louis, where Bill Hallahan would escape a bases loaded jam for the Cardinals in the first inning, and then go on to finish a complete game shutout. Philadelphia would leave 11 men on base in the game. Sound a lot like a Yankees. I'm familiar. The Cardinals offense came ah came from a Taylor Douthat home run, Charlie Gilbert and Jimmy Watson RBI singles, and a Chacafee RBI double, and a five to nothing victory.
00:03:08
Speaker
In game four, the athletes would jump out to yet another early lead, pushing across the run and at the top of the first on an Al Simmons RBI single. But the Carls would tie the game in a third on a Jesse Haines single after Charlie Gilbert triple. Yes, pitcher Jesse Haines. Haines would not allow a hit in the game after tying the game on his own. The Carls would score two unearned runs in the fourth inning. If their chick habea hit a two out double and scored, a Jimmy Dykes booted a ground ball.
00:03:35
Speaker
ah Charlie Gelber singled in another run, and like I said, Haynes locked this game down completely, and Descartes would tie the game, tie the series to two games apiece. Game 5. George Earnshaw dueled Burley Grimes through seven scoreless innings before Lefty Grove came on came in in relief in the 8th.
00:03:52
Speaker
In the top of the ninth inning, with the game still scoreless, Grimes walked Mickey Cochran and then allowed a monster home run to Jimmy Fox. That was the only score of the game. The athletes would win the game 2-0 and head home on the verge of a championship. Grimes later said that the ball Fox hit was so hard he couldn't even feel sorry for himself. And Fox was known for hitting absolute moonshots.
00:04:15
Speaker
So game six on one day's rest Georgia and shower would take the mound again for the athletics be 88 years 88 years until another pitcher would start consecutive games in the postseason.
00:04:27
Speaker
wow And like in the two other games this series, the athletics would jump out to an early lead in the first inning, thanks to RBI doubles from Mickey Cochran and Bing Limmer, and Bing Miller jumping out to a 2-0 lead. Al Simmons homered in the third to extend the lead to 3, and then Jimmy Dykes to a 2-run homer, then exiting to extend the lead to 5.
00:04:46
Speaker
Another run was pushed across in the 5th and 6th innings to pull out to a 7-0 lead where the game would stay until the Cardinals scored when I checked half the RBI double in the 9th, but that's all the Cardinals would get.
Player Performances and Hall of Fame Considerations
00:04:57
Speaker
On one day's rest, Earnshauer would throw a five-hit, one-run complete game and secure the World Series for the Athletics four games to two. So that was the first time someone started two straight games until 2018? Yes.
00:05:13
Speaker
Jesus the NLCS of 2018. I believe oh NLCS. Okay. I was trying to think like from that Boston team who might have done it, but it makes sense Wow I'm trying to think of that picture now 2018 would that be? I I actually don't know it's a good question. I'm gonna find that out Wait Miley He was a decoy in one of them Wade Miley. um That's a name we haven't heard in a while. Yeah, that's ah not who I was thinking about. but Yeah, Wade Miley started game five against Kershaw and then game six against Ryu. Wow. I was wondering if Kershaw did it himself, but ah they wouldn't have brought him back in. No.
00:06:06
Speaker
that's actually ah that's a really interesting fact right there yeah I mean the game five he was a front for Brandon Woodruff but still that that's something that may never happen again yeah the opener before the opener was a thing yep
00:06:24
Speaker
Alright, so unfortunately, I hate to be the bear of bad news, but unfortunately we have no episode of Is He a Hall of Famer tonight. um But we do have quite a few World Series participants. um Because it's all repeats, I didn't put like their rankings on the list down if you have any interest in seeing those. Go back to last year's, because pretty much all of them are in there. um One of the few exceptions to that rule is actually Dizzy Dean. um He was on the losing Cardinals, but he did not play.
00:06:51
Speaker
ah Stay tuned for 1934 for a real bio on him. ah We have Jim Bottomley. um This is his third World Series, not his first championship, but he's had one title so far. ah He had a rough one. He went one for 22, one double, one run scored, nine strikeouts, and two walks, otherwise known as the Aaron Judge World Series.
00:07:11
Speaker
guys um Frankie Frisch, mainstay in the full classic, it's his sixth appearance, he has two titles, five for 24, so he went 2-0-8 with two doubles, ah rough series there. Burley Grimes, who Josh mentioned, second appearance, still ringless. um It's actually his first World Series appearance since 1920 with the Brooklyn Robins, which we talked about 10 episodes ago now.
00:07:36
Speaker
0 and 2, 3.71 ERA, he gave up 7 earned in 17 innings and a 13 to 6 strikeouts a walk ratio. We have chick heafy third appearance first one title six for 22 with five doubles Jesse Haynes again third appearance has one title. He had one complete game where he only gave up one earned Four hits two strikeouts four walks so solid outing for him now I move on to the winning athletics Connie Mac gets another ring Mickey Cochran
00:08:08
Speaker
Two for two in the World Series. He went four for 18 with two home runs, so when he hit it, he hit it hard. 2.22 batting average with 1,002 OPS. So Giancarlo Stanton, welcome to the Yankees making copy. Jimmy Fox, yeah, he played well again. Two for two in the World Series, now two rings and two appearances. Seven for 21, one home run, three ribbies. ah Hit 3.33 with a 1.058 OPS. Another great lefty growth.
00:08:36
Speaker
um Second appearance, second ring, went 2-1-1 with a 1.42 ERA. Five runs, but only three of them were earned in 19 innings pitched at a 10 to 3 strikeout to walk ratio. Al Simmons, also 2 for 2 in the series now, 8 for 22 in the actual games. Two home runs, two doubles, four runs batted in.
00:08:57
Speaker
played very, very well. 364 batting average, 1.144 OPS. Actually skipped Eddie Collins. He was also a DNP. Technically, it's the eighth time one of his teams made it, but he only played in like I think he only played in three games that season. um it was He's played in six World Series, and this was his final season, so um happy trails to Eddie Collins. But it's the second straight World Series that he was part of the team, but did not play in either one of them.
00:09:26
Speaker
And that's your World Series data. I was going to consider doing sort of like we did a couple of episodes ago for Don Mattingly and is he a Hall of Famer for someone that played on one of the teams. And I had it written down for Ken Boyer. but What wound up happening was Ken Boyer was actually nominated for the Hall of Fame for the Veterans Committee this year. So I figured I'd save that for the Hall of Fame episode. So we'll discuss that um in a future episode soon. All right. Well, these are some of my favorite episodes.
00:09:57
Speaker
The topic is just I don't I just got to throw it to you guys and shirm has been Dying to get this out. He is I'm gonna let him roll Yeah, I'm just gonna hand it over to him and we'll we'll just start the combo from there. So go ahead. I Mean Where do I even start a good question? I I guess I should start by congratulating the LA Dodgers for buying themselves a world series and Um, i put it I said it before the season started and we can go, yeah, I mean, you can go back on the pod that, uh, the Dodgers don't win the world series. It's a complete failure. did Um, and that their team is built to win and yeah that's yeah that's what they did. They went out and they won. Uh, even, even with all their pitching injuries and whatnot. Um,
00:10:47
Speaker
but at at the same time and as good as they were. Otani was awful in the playoffs as a whole and in and in the World Series, especially so um So all of the Otani love ah by the MLB and all of the moronic Announcers I Just Jesus Christ.
Critique of Yankees' Playoff Performance
00:11:08
Speaker
It's awful. Please just stuff your heads into the ground It's ridiculous. He was not good at all whatsoever. You heard a show man. Come on. no Yeah, whatever Yeah maybe
00:11:21
Speaker
you know It just yeah, he did in the third game He did all of that on a tour neighbor. Yeah, all of nothing. All nothing. He did nothing before he did nothing after it Yeah, well say back at the MLB was hyping up Oh Tani and judge Oh Tani and judge and the two of them were god-awful. Yeah was was quite hilarious to me And speaking of judge ah Yeah, he should give all that money back that he took from the Yankees ah so that they can pay Juan Soto before Juan Soto goes to the Mets, as we all know he will. Yeah, I give that two weeks.
00:11:56
Speaker
um just absolutely abysmal, pathetic performance from Judge. And it just does not break the narrative that he is awful in the postseason. and it doesn't And it doesn't make sense. And I've been trying to wrap my head around it for a while. Just what is going through his head in the playoffs that's different than the regular season? Is that he is he just teeing off on really bad pitching in the regular season? And he's not hitting guys in the... He's not hitting good pitchers? I am mean, is that is that it?
00:12:28
Speaker
I just, he has that approach that the Yankees seem to have when they're not playing well, where they will watch fastball down the middle, all watch fastball down the middle, and then swing at a curve ball 10 feet off the plate. And he just does it over and over and over and over. And it doesn't matter what hitting coach the team seems to have, you just watch guys do it over and over and over again. And I just can't imagine what pitch they're looking for when the fastball's coming right down the middle. Just at bat, after at bat, after at bat.
00:12:58
Speaker
That is just, that to me is why the Yankees have the talent to win a World Series, but it's because of abysmal coaching from Aaron Boone and company that they never will. Now, speaking of Aaron Boone, Aaron Boone is the worst manager in sports. Period. I don't know about all that. but i't mean Worst manager in sports. I don't know. very Baseball manager. You do not have many jobs here.
00:13:28
Speaker
but We love it like head coaches from basketball exactly Yeah, yes, and you're saying he's worse That but you're like are we saying currently or all time? I just want to make sure that I understand this David I'll give you all the time So you're saying he's worse than Joe Judge? Yeah, I was about to say Joe Judge. He's worse than Ben McAdoo. He's worse than Pat Sherman. Alright, he's on par with Ben McAdoo. He's not even in the top three worst Giants coaches. boone Boone does the same kind of things that Ben McAdoo would do.
00:14:03
Speaker
where you just know that he's going to pick the stupidest thing possible like run left on every single first down like Makadu used to do where every team was just sitting there waiting for it and it was a three-yard loss every single first down.
00:14:19
Speaker
And that's the kind of things Boone does when he goes and he puts in Esther Cortez, a guy who hasn't thrown a baseball that was nice cuable was and says to the media before the game, before he got activated, that he's not 100% and he is okay with getting hurt again just to pitch.
00:14:37
Speaker
Listen, i I award the dog mentality in Cortez, but as a manager, you gotta step in and say, no, especially. you can't I wouldn't have minded if they put him in, in let's say the seventh inning in a less high leverage situation. But you put him in to face Otani, Betts, Freeman, and he didn't get to face Teasko Hernandez, but he would have been next.
00:15:01
Speaker
what the What are you doing? What did Tim Hill do the next day? You put in a starter, first of all. You put in a starter in a high leverage situation. When you had Tim Hill who mowed down, absolutely mowed down to Cleveland in the series before that. Yeah, it should have been Tim Hill's spot. What and what what is going through your mind? He got Freeman out. and yeah and Yeah, and the next day, and the next day, they get Freeman out. i just don't It doesn't make sense and then to go up there in front of the media after the game and go, well we like the matchup. And then talk about how we think that Cortez's breaking balls were good against these pitchers. You know how many breaking balls he threw in that inning? You know how many breaking balls he threw? 0. 0. He threw two 94 mile an hour fastballs.
00:15:52
Speaker
And the second one was directly down the middle of the plate. And they picked him because they thought his breaking balls matched up better than Tim Hill's.
00:16:04
Speaker
But the analytics say that a starter has a better shot at getting out of the inning than a reliever does. i analytics It just does not make sense to me. And Boon has done this year after year after year. You have one job as a manager during the game, and that is to manage your bullpen. And year after year after year, he cannot do it effectively. Josh, say it with me. It's not the size of the analytics department.
00:16:31
Speaker
Yeah, I mean I mean really yeah, it it really is And the eggs analytics department is so lost in the weeds of garbage That they have no pulse for the game no real in the field no pulse for reality Yeah, yeah, the analytics might have said all Cortez looks good in the situation, and and I don't and I don't agree with that yeah The analytics I don't agree with the analytics on that first of all right, but then you have to think that this guy's a starter and who does not come in in these situations. He hasn't pitched for a month. In his career, ever. And he hasn't pitched in a month. And he's hurt. Yep. Yeah. But I don't want to just go to town for the human element. Yes, they don't think about the human. Exactly.
00:17:14
Speaker
Let's say they change the rule because Rob Manford likes to do that. And they say, and let's say in the World Series two years from now, in the bottom of the ninth inning, teams get to pick the batter that they're facing when they have two outs and they're down. Which Yankee are you putting up there in the World Series? Stan. As a batter, Stan. Yeah. the and What would the analytics say, though? Judge. Not Stan. Right.
00:17:38
Speaker
That's why a analytics don't work. You're right. They work until they don't. Because the analytics would have absolutely said put judge in that situation, or maybe put Soto in that situation. I could have lived with that one, but Stan's the guy you want up ye that entire October. That's why I couldn't understand why they wouldn't move judge out of the three spot. you The amount of times he was coming up first and second, nobody out and either striking out or hitting into a double play was freaking absurd. And I wanted to stand up in those spots.
00:18:05
Speaker
Say it with Mizaki, because the analytics say so. That's what it is. The analytics said, put Judge third. no i know actually Actually, I don't think that's the reason on that one. I think that's the one where Boone thought that he actually had his finger on the pulse. And he said, oh, well we we stick with Judge. That's the one analytic that he ignored. I guess we're going to play with Dashie's confidence, but it's October.
00:18:27
Speaker
Yeah, but at the same time, you gotta to do that's killing it at the five spot. Just just move him up. but It's not the end of the world. I think Judge's ego... What do you mean? We can just put Jaztism in there instead. Oh, you don't worry. He bet he was in cleanup. I want Jaztism off the team. Well, he's here for one more year at minimum. I want him off the team. And then we have an arbitration controlled, I think. yeah I want him off the team. I do not like him. I agree. I was wrong on that one. I have never seen a guy that goes out there and talks so much crap.
00:18:56
Speaker
and then backs it up with nothing not only does he back it up with nothing but he makes boneheaded mistakes yeah constantly constantly he's not a third baseman we gotta talk about that oh oh no i'm not even talking about the fielding i'm not even talking about the feeling i'm talking solely about the base running and oh yeah that's the problem you cannot get picked off and thrown out the amount of times that he does yeah you just can't you cannot do that But Josh, Cashman said that the Yankees have one of the best running teams. I was going to get to that one later, but since you brought it up, yeah, apparently the Yankees base running coach was getting picked for something, I don't know, some other job somewhere else. And they asked, the media asked Cashman about it and Cashman said, well, of course, of course you deserve it. He's great doing a great job. We have one of the best base running teams in the league. And he said and I think every Yankees fan's jaw simultaneously hit the floor.
00:19:51
Speaker
but is' not reading that one anymore I just how out of touch can you possibly be yep every analytic and Cashman loves analytics that the Yankees are the worst and it's not even close face running team in the league By a country mile and did you hear what the Dodgers said about that?
00:20:12
Speaker
Well, they knew it. They knew it. Every player on the team said that all they had to do was put the ball and play because the Yankees would hurt themselves. The Yankees will mess up there. They have the skill. They don't have the fundamentals. They outright said it in interviews. And let me ask you a question. Who's in charge of teaching them fundamentals? Who would be the coach be the one that does that in spring training? Yep. I wonder. oh Oh, let me let me answer that question for you. Aaron Boone.
00:20:41
Speaker
not covering first base dropping fly balls I mean not getting in front of relay throws simple simple simple things they teach you as a five-year-old in t-ball that the Yankees couldn't do I will say this I blame Boone for the game one disaster in the ninth yeah I don't really blame Boone for the fifth inning in game five. And here's why. Aaron judge is a professional major league. This where I understand, you know, we've had him at center field a lot and I know it's not his primary position, but you got to catch that ball. Oh, absolutely. You have to catch that ball. And I think I'm led Josh that you, uh, kind of called out judge there. And I think he does need to be called out, uh, even more than he already has been. But even on top of that, Anthony Volpe made the play at third.
00:21:33
Speaker
I didn't really blame him for that one. I think the goal was to not, you know, hit the guy in the head and get called for an interference. Anyway, I didn't really think Volpe's play was that bad. Gary Cole, not running the first was inexcusable, worse than judge dropping the ball. Even if Rizzo is going to cover it, you still got to get there. What's the harm in getting there? You're getting paid $325 million. dollars You get your ass to first base. Did you guys watch the job boy break out of that?
00:22:01
Speaker
I did not. i i did any anymore I can't watch any of that stuff. They have a great point that Rizzo actually doesn't like to run to first base. So they actually brought up a bunch of plays throughout the season. He never, he actually never runs the first base. He always asks for the pitcher to cover. So you you think that, you know, your first baseman well enough to go run. So I really don't know what was going on with Cole there. can i Can I also bring up a point that I just remember now that we're talking about Rizzo?
00:22:31
Speaker
Why was he playing? That's the other thing. Two broken fingers. That's the other thing. Why? I don't know. anyone no fucking oresque and anybody Anybody could have hit as bad as he did. Might as well have that in there. Might as well put all his Waldo in, I guess.
00:22:48
Speaker
i mean I mean, Ben Rice, what what's the difference? Oswaldo needed to play a lot more than he did. Yeah, he was so good this year for us. What was the story with that? And the fact that like even when we were down, they didn't even try to get the Mingas in there.
00:23:03
Speaker
Yeah, disgraceful. You're going to pitch in Trevino. You're going to pitch in Trevino. I understand not putting Dominguez in that spot, because then he strikes out. He'll never live the end of it. He'll never get his confidence back. I get that. But how do you not at least give him some run when you're getting trounced the entire series? I mean, they don't care about defense anyway, so take Verdugo out. Verdugo's hitting 100 flat. Listen, I got a credit for Verdugo. He wasn't terrible.
00:23:30
Speaker
aye in the field he wasn't. He outplayed Judge. Did he really? I think so. That's a very low bar, my friend. That's what I'm saying. That's my point, though, is that the guys on top should be the ones getting the birds crapped on them first. And as much as I want to give grief to Gleyber Torres, I have no issue with Gleyber Torres. Oh, no, he played great in the postseason, honestly. He played really well. I'm sad. I've been tough on Volpi, too.
00:24:00
Speaker
yeah And Volpe showed up when no one else was. Yep. i No issue with them. Go ahead. What I was saying is, uh, them Soto and Stan. Yeah. Members that deserve any credit, everybody else. Uh, well, cold fish. All right. yes I guess besides that, they're fitting very well. Yeah. Cold fish for him. He's got to come up first. Yeah.
00:24:24
Speaker
Fundamental fundamental stuff that they teach you in spring training that you've been doing since you were five years old that the team can't handle doing Yeah, even if you both just at what point do you do you just get held accountable? Yeah, what point does a manager just come by and smack you on the back and head and go what are you doing? Can't do that. You cannot you can't have a I mean, it's just been proven over and over and over. And you cannot have a manager who's a best friend. He's not, you're not gonna win. That's what Boone wants to be. He wants to be your best friend. He wants to sit down and shake your hand and have a coffee. That doesn't win. It never wins. And you just can't, it's just years and years and years of this just absolute garbage play under Boone. And it never changes. And then they make just boneheaded decisions. Letting Rizzo play. Pulling in Cortez. I just, I don't, I don't get it.
00:25:14
Speaker
Well, the thing about Rizzard that really gets me is not not only is he playing on on broken fingers and really can't feel his position because of it, nor can he hit because of it. You know when the last time Yankee's first baseman hit a home run?
00:25:28
Speaker
June, August, or July? It was July. It was the 31st of July. It was DJ LeMahieu. That was the last time a Yankees first baseman hit a home run. How many home how many games in a row did Freddie Freeman hit a home run? Six counting. i mean i mean just i mean as You lose a series right there. First base is a power position, and yeah and you're playing a guy that can't hit the ball. You're playing a guy that can't build a position. i just It doesn't make sense.
00:25:55
Speaker
I mean, you want the guy to sit on the bench and be and be the roster guy? Great. Do that, because that's what all that's all that Cabrera did. yeah I mean, let the guy play then. as speaking of Speaking of sitting on the bench, I gotta say, why was Marcus Strowman on the roster for the entirety of the playoffs when he did not even get in the game? And I'm not saying he should have. Why was he on the roster then? What was the point of that? He he didn't even get up.
00:26:22
Speaker
I don't even know if he was in the bullpen. He might have been sitting on the bench the whole time. yeah They had no intentions of ever bringing him in. Why was he on the roster then? Optic, I guess. i just i don't I don't get that. If on the off chance one of the four starters got hurt, I guess. But then you can replace him. I mean, I guess so. I just i on i don't get it. but Can I give you guys the glass half full take here? and I actually don't know if this makes it better or worse.
00:26:53
Speaker
I mean, this team was expected to be no pun intended championship or bust, right? Yeah, kinda. I mean, they weren't even, they were supposed to come in like third in division. Because of Soto. They just barely maybe make a wild card. But like I'm saying before the season starts, when they get Soto.
00:27:14
Speaker
yeah And you were telling me they better win a title, they better win a title, they better win a title. theyre You're right. This stinks. Well, yeah, because Soda's not coming back. Oh, no. But my point here is, is that we knew that this team was not better than the Dodgers. And they were the only ones that were able to beat us. I understand we had an easy card. We, you know, having Kansas City. Yeah, but I'll say this to counter that, Mack. I think any almost anybody that came out of the National League would have beat us you think we would have better chance against me on a bit of chance against the Mets I still think the Mets would have beat us with the way I think the Mets probably do beat us but I think because you can only face who's in front of you and the result was Yankees are American League champions and lost to the Dodgers I'm not saying it's anything worth celebrating but is it
00:28:00
Speaker
do Are we calling the season a colossal failure when we basically covered expectations? but I would like I would like to say that this narrative that Yankees had this old just walk through to the World Series I think that's a load of crap by the way you play those in front of you. Yeah. Well, yeah I mean yeah, but to to just like discount the Royals and discount Cleveland like they weren't good teams I just The Royals have one of the best rotations in baseball. Nobody's gonna argue with that. And Cleveland is a very, very good team. And they didn't even have their number one pitcher. I just, yeah, I mean to discount those two two teams because you like the names on Philadelphia who didn't show up. Yeah. Right. Or Atlanta i don't yeah i mean i don't i mean bal san diego who didn't show Yeah, I don't like that i don't like that narrative.
00:28:52
Speaker
Good. And I'm glad you do. And I'm glad you don't, because that kind of adds to my point more. Was the Yankee season that big of a failure? I would say anytime you don't win, it's a failure. Yeah, i put it's a failure, but I don't think it's as colossal as people are making it out to me. I think they handled expectations. I remember I, and it was in a different chat, but I went on a rant when the Rangers put up a banner that said regular season champions and they won the president's trophy. I think it was the dumbest, weakest move that you could possibly do. It is. And they should be left out for that. But I think the the New York Rangers, by the way,
00:29:27
Speaker
Yes, New York Rangers. Thank you. um But I think the Yankees can in April, not right now, put up a banner that says American League Champions and actually feel decent about it. Oh, they will. not going to I don't think it's going to feel weak at all.
00:29:47
Speaker
I think they handled expectations. They got to where they could have been. They met a better team. And honestly, if they had their heads on the shoulders, they probably could have been and maybe should have been up three, two in that series. That's where I was going with that. I was so sorry. Sorry. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
00:30:05
Speaker
I was just going to say that um it is a bigger failure because everyone is reacting the way we are because of the collapse in game five. If they they you know get their stuff together, win that game, go back and lose in six, I'm not as upset. I am upset because the way they blew that game. to me To me, it's because every Yankee fan that followed the team closely throughout the year knew that they started off really, really hot. And they won a lot of games beginning of the year.
00:30:34
Speaker
And then about June, July, they became a 500 baseball team and played that way for the remainder of the season. And they threw a lot of games away. Bad base running, bad errors, blown saves from Clay Holmes, all that kind of stuff. And every Yankee fan said,
00:30:54
Speaker
Well, they didn't make any change that's gonna stop that from happening Luke Weaver suddenly became the Messiah Was the only thing that happened? Yeah, and that didn't happen and I just they lucked on that one That wasn't like ah oh, they tried something, you know, Brian cash went out and got somebody at you They just said well, we don't have anybody else here to close. I was trying But I Every Yankee fan said that the Yankees had a problem with defense and the Yankees had a problem with base running. And lo and behold, what did the Yankees have a problem with? What blew the whole damn thing for them?
00:31:31
Speaker
base running and fielding. It's just not because I expect it to be the ones to blow it, honestly. You don't think of Cole and Judge blowing the game for you. Right. You you would have expected Glaber. You would have expected Verdugo. Actually, I would i would ah expect Judge to blow it because he's not a center fielder. And something about him in center field, he's not a good fielder. He really isn't. Statistically, he's not a good fielder.
00:31:56
Speaker
That's the only thing though, is that if we're thinking, if the Yankees do sign Soto, judge is your center fielder long-term. Unless you play Dominguez there and then try to move a Harper, a Poa Harper and have judge play first. See the thing I don't understand, speaking of speaking of this fielding arrangement, Soto played left field in San Diego.
00:32:17
Speaker
True. Why are the Yankees so completely against that? Because the analytics think he has a canon of an arm. yeah peco park And Judge's arm is better. I agree, but they think his arm in center and having Soto's arm in right works and you can have a schlub and left and be fine. But you know, it's funny because, you know, there's this one guy that they have that's a natural center fielder and has proven he's really not great in the corners.
00:32:40
Speaker
I wonder who that could be that could solve all the problems but guy who should have been in there in the first place and a guy who should have been in there in the first place Jason Dominguez should be playing center field with judge and right and Soto and left I I didn't that's not who I i thought you were saying Trent Grisham go over Google I was thinking Trent and center soto left judge right mean grisham that's only five so uh... yeah but i mean it's just replacing her and try to try to reach them tran grisham was the guy that the padre store into that trade just to make to basically like what you want so do you have to take that off her hands because you don't think we don't want them really i i i mean really and he's he's gonna be on the team next year and he'll play twenty or thirty games
00:33:27
Speaker
just to give guys days of rest, and that's all he's ever going to do. And yeah what whatever, that's fine, he's terrible. And he should not be an everyday player, but whatever, yeah, he can do that, that's fine.
00:33:37
Speaker
But but you know again, I reserve the right to say whether the season was a colossal failure or not until Soto signs.
Soto's Potential Impact on Yankees and MLB
00:33:45
Speaker
there Because if Soto signs with the Yankees, for however much money that may be, and however it ends up going down, if the a if he lets the Yankees have last you know less dibs on on the contract,
00:33:57
Speaker
um If he liked it enough on the Yankees, and likes the money, and likes the team, and thinks that they can win, and stays, I'll say that it wasn't a colossal failure. If he leaves, it was the most colossal failure, and Cashman should be walked out the door, and Steinbrenner should be forced to sell the team. What if he leaves and they get burns instead? Yeah.
00:34:21
Speaker
And Soto was the culture changer. We got the Yankees for the World Series and got us, let's say, Burns maybe on 10, $20 million dollars less than he could have gotten somewhere else. I don't think they're even in the market for getting burns, to be honest with you. But they don't get soda. They're in the market for anybody. And if you look, and if you look well, the so two two things, two things. One is that if you look at Burns underlying numbers, a lot of people are very, very weary of giving him long term deals because his spin rates are all down. I know, but I like rates are all down. And I like him. Don't get me wrong. But I would be very weary giving a long term deal based on these numbers.
00:34:59
Speaker
um And then going back to Soto, I have a bad feeling that Soto is going to do um He's gonna he's gonna pull Tavares He's gonna pull John Tavares where he's gonna handcuff the Yankees and take a sweet-ass time making a decision Until all the other free hands are off the board and then sign somewhere else that's fair i i think soto i i don't think soto has to have any loyalty though i think so i don't think he's 25 years old he's going to the highest bidder he's already got his ring yeah that that's cool and he's made it very clear that's what he wants to do so you can't be upset at him
00:35:32
Speaker
Part of me wouldn't be surprised that the Yankees, like, I know Michael K mentioned it and I think it's ridiculous, but I wouldn't be surprised that the Yankees basically said, listen, we'll give you this, you gotta sign by this, if you don't, we're moving on. oh like all I don't think they should do that.
00:35:49
Speaker
But I think they might do that for that exact reason Josh is pointing out. I mean, maybe some teams shouldn't do that because, like, yeah, the market would call dry up afterwards. And I think after this past season, and everyone's kind of tired of Scott Boris's BS. Oh, yeah. I don't know if he's going to be able to get away with it. and And players are coming out that they dislike that method. Yeah. So Smoto may just not want to do that. And he say may he may say, hey, I want to do spring training.
00:36:16
Speaker
get me get this done with whoever but get this done yeah i mean you're gonna i mean he is the guy he you know he is the guy and I don't know what teams they're going to do and it's going to be really hard to predict. Like our, our team's going to tell other free agents. Like we want to see what Soto does first before we start signing or as a team, like, you know, a team that's not actually in on Soto, but it's just checking in on them that they're going to, you know, throw money at somebody else yeah yeah and snag a guy. They probably shouldn't or a guy that, you know, probably could have gotten somewhere else and won something and go to a bad team. Like, I don't know, Boston and take some money.
00:36:57
Speaker
Yeah, exactly where I was going. There's no way they're actually, you know, could have got a guy like Boston. I think there's three teams that you got to watch afterwards. Ironically, the three teams, any Yankee fan would not want him to go on. Obviously the Mets. I think Toronto is willing to cut a check because of what happened with Otani. And I think Boston, I think there's a less than 0% chance that Boston saw the error in their ways when they made that ridiculous Mookie Betts trade. And now they're seeing him in the World Series every year.
00:37:27
Speaker
I think that might be kind of the makeup where they're willing to shell it out for him. See my question, see my, this again is basically the same question that I raised for Otani is the question I'll raise for Soto is that obviously different startup standards because Otani had not won. Would Soto really want to go to a team like Toronto or go to a team like Boston where they're they're not they're not going to win. They're not ready. And they're not going to be ready for a long time. But I think Soto has the ego to think that he can change that. And I think if they're giving him if I think if Toronto, us he though I think if Toronto panics and offer $700 million, dollars I think Soto will go there in a heartbeat.
00:38:08
Speaker
yeah So you say that about him having the ego, but you gotta remember that he played on a team with Aaron Judge and John Carlos Stanton and Garakol and lost. So maybe he has a little bit of a touch of reality still in him. But this is a guy who won the World Series with the Washington Nationals. Before there was a super team in LA. They stunk long before that. By the way, he's gonna go sign Roki Sasaki for a ham sandwich and a can of coke.
00:38:36
Speaker
That's why the Dodgers aren't out of it either. Yeah. You know, the first three days, the league has created a very big problem with this money deferral thing. The CBA is going to be very interesting. and What is it? 2027, I believe it's going to be interesting. Well, yeah, I'm interested in seeing that goes. And you're starting to see that deferral stuff legal over to other sports. I don't like it. Yeah. I think it's kind of cheap.
00:39:01
Speaker
Just because, you know, you got a guy that's willing to, Oh, well, if you give me the money, you know, later on and whatever. Yeah. They're probably getting screwed on inflation, but they're helping the team win. Yeah. They don't care. I don't know. To me, it seems really cheap. Yeah. It's, it's definitely frustrating as a fan. Um, but yeah, I mean, we're going to get, so if the Yankees obviously don't find Soto, uh, who would you guys want them to sign? I know we talk a lot about i know who they're going to sign.
00:39:29
Speaker
I know who they're going to We talked about this already. I don't think I said it on the pod. But they're going to go and sign Santander. Oh, I was thinking Elon's out. Please no. But you know what? You're right. that Both of those guys are the exact kind of hitters that Brian Cashman loves. yeah Guys had hit 220, strike out 1,000 times. Well, they hit 40. Yep.
00:39:54
Speaker
Oh, and, uh, don't show up in the playoffs. And the narrative will be, imagine Santander hitting to the right field porch. Yeah, exactly. As it is with everybody they sign. I just, I don't. I think Tehasker Hernandez is on the table.
00:40:10
Speaker
I think Patrick Corbin's on the table. Oh, good one. Yeah. I think Alex Bregman's on the... I think Alex Bregman is the quintessential cashman. Bregman is actually because it's realistic and that really scares me. He's the quintessential cashman guy. It's Josh Donaldson 2.0 if you sign Bregman. That's precisely why it's exactly what cashman would do. It's scary. He'll sign up for 75 cents on the dollar and he'll think it was a great move. Yeah. And you'll get Bregman on the downswing.
00:40:40
Speaker
I don't know, but Christian Walker is a good one. I think if hopefully they can get him, I know you guys are hiring him as well. I would like to, I'd like to get Walker. I think he's the better first baseman choice. I'd like to get Walker. My only concern with him is his age. Like he's three years. yeah He's three years older than Alonzo. I'm not giving him a long-term deal. fast Yeah. If you give him two years, I'm fine with it. But I think some what they got to do is they got to figure out a way to make DJ LeMay who go away. Yeah. That's what they really have to do.
00:41:10
Speaker
My other question for you guys, do you think there's any shot and I don't know if the, I guess, I guess you should do this, but do you think there's any shot that a team will now be willing to trade for a Giancarlo Stanton? um no I think you'd do it if it's there just because of the money aspect. like I know he was money in the playoffs, but.
00:41:34
Speaker
And then he clogs up the DH. You'd sell high on him. Yeah, maybe that's a good question. I was thinking as high as his value is going to be for the rest of his career. I don't know if anyone's still willing to take him or not, but I feel like someone might. I mean, he can't play the field. He clogs up the DH. He can't rush guys because he has to hit. And he can't run. Like, over the course of the regular season, I'd say I would i would do it, honestly. If John Fisher was to ever sell, I think the i think Vegas would be a spot for him.
00:42:05
Speaker
You know, they they need a draw I wouldn't be surprised if you know if Reinsdorf sold if the White Sox took a shot on him Oh, he should sell Jesus. christ The only thing the White Sox are doing is trading crochet to the to the Red Sox Yeah, is that where he's favored to go? I don't know but each thing actually they want a hole they want a hole in prospects and Red Sox have a large pool of of Prospects that they can trade right? That's an interesting idea Let me ask you this too. I think Sunau is a free agent again, right? Yes. I almost went to the Yankees. Do you guys want him? No. Depends on how much money. That's the real question. But he's such a hot or cold pitcher. Yeah. And I remember last year I was doing a narrative about him. you know If he wins another Cy Young, I don't know how you keep him out of the Hall of Fame. But I'm not baing i'm not betting on him winning another Cy Young by any means. And when he's rough, he's rough.
00:43:01
Speaker
i I lean toward avoiding it unless you get him for like maybe a Strowman level offer. Sure. But he's gonna command more. Who else is on the max freed? I like that. Yeah, he's good. But he had a he didn't have his best season. He does have some injury issues.
00:43:23
Speaker
Again, it all comes down to price. I just I don't see the Yankees even entering the pitching market to be playing on us with you. Yeah You know made their bed with Rodan who was complete trash and I regret ever saying that he was a good pitcher. Yeah And then you still have strom and you still have Schmidt you still feel yeah and you still have Cortez. Yeah They're starting pitching market yes and And look, I mean, the future should feel brighter than it maybe feels right now because you have two of the top three rookie of the years in the AL. We should feel pretty decent about that. you know Anthony Volpe, who had a rough season, showed real promise when our backs were against the wall.
00:44:12
Speaker
If he can carry that momentum over, that's promising. If they keep Soto, that's promising. Maybe Stanton can you know have a little revival outside of October. He actually had a decent regular season this year, I'd say, for his standards. And if Judge can get his head out of his rear end, you know I feel solid about the squad going into next year. It feels very doom and gloom tonight, but I do think there's a bleak of optimism going forward, but it all starts with Juan Soto.
Future Prospects for Yankees and Mets
00:44:41
Speaker
i yeah i have I have no optimism because how do you beat l LA? yeah The only way that you're going to beat l is a l LA is you have to build your own super team. No. And so that runner is unwilling. No, we just need to be able to catch fly balls. We need to be able to cover first base. We need to be able to not swing at anything. We almost were up 3-2 on them. If Boone's not an idiot. Right, so when pigs fly and Boone learns how to manage a team properly, and Aaron Jones learns how to hit in the playoffs, and Soto signs with the team, then they might actually have a shot. Got it. And I understand it's all if games, but the fact of the matter is, if Tim Hill's in, we probably win game one. Period. We lost the World Series after game one.
00:45:22
Speaker
that it was over but let me tell you game four in game five we were one inning of fundamentals away i don't really blame boon for that one i blame the players for that one yeah you can't blame them i i'm not blaming boon for catch for judge not catching a routine fly ball in your poll not covering first base that's on our guys that we're paying 600 million dollars for
00:45:46
Speaker
And let me just say that I think every Yankee fan owes Joe Girardi an apology. Oh, I always loved him. I don't. I don't love that guy. I thought that was a terrible move. Okay. or Every Yankee fan owes Joe Girardi an apology. I don't owe him anything. I don't owe him an apology because 10 years of Aaron Boone is going to kill every Yankee fan. I owe John Carlos Stanton an apology. I do not owe Joe Girardi an apology. I think that was... I hated that the second it happened.
00:46:14
Speaker
I think that you could literally take a garbage bag and stuff it full of yogurt and sit it on the bench, and it could do a better job of managing a baseball game than Aaron Boone.
00:46:25
Speaker
And now my other question though that we haven't really covered, Weaver. I know we mentioned him briefly, this little run that he had, and he technically got marked with two blown saves I think in the World Series because Boone put him in ridiculous impostor.
00:46:43
Speaker
But I'm not blaming him for that. No. But is this something that's sustainable going into next year? Because we obviously know Clay Holmes isn't the guy. I assume he's walking. I hope he's walking. I think you give Weaver the shot. Don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you. Get the heck out, Clay Holmes, and never come back. He's front seat of the bus. Yeah. I think you've got to give Weaver the shot. And he's a young kid. He's going to improve. So I don't know. You give him a shot, but do you take a flyer on a free agent closer just to have the backup?
00:47:11
Speaker
because do we think This is gonna last and Maybe like a Kyle Finnegan. ah yeah yeah The Yankees are smart They would trade Clark Schmidt to Milwaukee for Devin Williams, obviously more than just Schmidt and Devin Williams is a salary problem right now That's actually perfect. I love that. That's what you would do That's what I would do I like that
00:47:37
Speaker
And then next year, Schulman could actually start some playoff games instead, like we're paying him to do. Yeah. You can get 40 year old David Robertson. He's a free agent again. So perfect. It's true. He actually loves that. Sign him on a one year flyer back up a Weaver. There you go. Robert says that he had more than a flyer. You'll get a one year deal with me more than a flyer. He's honestly had a pretty good career. That guy, he really has. Yeah. It's very underrated player. Yeah.
00:48:09
Speaker
Oh, we even touched on the Mets. What do we think the Mets do? Do they bring back Manaya, Severino? They sign Juan Soto. Well, they sign Juan Soto, they bring back Manaya. If they don't sign Juan Soto, I think they're a prime candidate for Burns. That would be crazy. Because look at the Stearns. He's a Milwaukee guy. Yeah. I think that's TaylorMade. And I think Corbin Burns with the Mets would actually be a lot of fun. Yeah, Burns, Senga, Manaya, Severino.
00:48:38
Speaker
and Peterson That that's a good rotation. It's a really good rotation. Yeah, I'm an eye and several both free agents Yeah, I don't think either of those guys are coming back. I think you bring back to Naya. You don't bring back savvy. I agree. I agree. Oh, yeah, i I would agree Severinos and I got a pay bump to go somewhere and then just go back to being trash again Yeah, I can kind of feel that one happening.
00:49:02
Speaker
We're all assuming Alonzo, they're not resigning Alonzo, right? I mean, that one home run that he hit against Devin Williams, actually. I don't think that's changing David Stearns' mind. I agree. i don't think He doesn't seem like the type of guy that's gonna take clutchness into account. I wouldn't. wouldn't either. Also because... Well, I wouldn't because Vientos has become a stud. Yeah, yeah I like Vientos a lot. Absolutely great playoff series from the kid.
00:49:33
Speaker
Um, I would teach him how to play first base because you have other, uh, infield prospects on the left side of the infield, bre baby Brett and Williams. Uh, I think, I think a Chet Williams is his name. Yeah. Um,
00:49:48
Speaker
um Yeah, and you got to bring those guys off to play. One of those two guys can play third base. You're playing Acuna at second this year. Oh, yeah. He's proven he's what he he's ready to go. And of course, you have Landor and that's going to be your infield. You don't need Alonzo, especially for the amount of money that he'd be making. You know, Adam, you're going to invest that money somewhere else. And it burns in a soda.
00:50:12
Speaker
The Mets are going to be a good team next year. They are going to be. I mean, this was the year they were supposed to be bad. So remember, this was a point here. This was. And they tried the punt at the beginning. That's for sure. yeah What a crazy year for them. Really? Yeah. They got hot. They got hot at the right time. See, they're a team that can put up something, put up some kind of banner and actually feel proud relative to expectations. They should feel proud for what they did. Yeah, they should. Absolutely not. They're a good team at all.
00:50:43
Speaker
maybe be phil you didn show I wonder what would have happened if San Diego didn't blow that 2-1 lead. Who knows what the heck we're talking about. I mean, they're as talented as anyone. yeah
00:50:54
Speaker
they're They're a great squad. Josh picked him to win the title. I mean, they had the Dodgers. You know, they're up 2-1. By the way, remember when you guys were messing with me about the Astros pick, and I understand that didn't work out. But my my World Series pick was dead on.
00:51:10
Speaker
Well, I picked Yankees, but I have Yankees Phillies. Oh boy. I got the Yankees part right. Yeah, shocker. I got the Dodger part, right? I had, uh, I had the, uh, Guardians Padres. So I had the great job, clearly. Got all, got every single one of the wildcard matches, right? And I was like, I was so happy. And then it just slowly started falling apart.
00:51:32
Speaker
It was pretty bad. But I do want to say one thing though, like, and it's, it's tough to say considering the fact that we went against him and we lost. My favorite player outside of the Yankees has been Freddie Freeman for a while. I'm so fricking happy for that guy. Considering all that he's been going through with his son, all that's been on his mind, you know, playing through all of that and to hit a home run six straight world series games, hit the first world walk off grand slam in world series history.
00:52:05
Speaker
four home runs in this series and five games, I believe. Yeah. And that's the guy at the ball. world He locked and we, like I said, we're championship or bust in here. And then I, we talk Hall of Fame a lot. He locked the Hall of Fame. This is, we always look for those signature moments and you know, I kind of made a joke with Scott Roland got in. Hey guys, yo, what's your most memorable moment of Scott Roland? And I had crickets.
00:52:32
Speaker
This was that moment. And this is not a career like a Joe Carter. And this is not a career like a Kirk Gibson. Both of them had very good to great careers. Freddie Freeman was always a step above that. And now he's got that same moment to go right with them. I think he's a first ballot Hall of Famer. And I'm very happy about that. I just wish we weren't the ones that were going against him when he clinched it. Yeah, can't be happier. for the guy but so happy for, could not have happened to a nicer person, could not have happened to someone that, it's a storybook ending. And, you know, even though it's the Dodgers and they bought their way in, him getting to be the hero, I think was a really nice, um I guess, not consolation prize, but something that kind of helped me feel a little bit better. So shout out to Freddie Freeman.
00:53:27
Speaker
I don't feel any better. ah I know. You know. It's like, I don't know. I'm like, I'm not even upset. I'm just mad. I mean, you should be. I'm still mad. Not as mad as I was with the day they lost, but I'm still mad. It was rough. I wasn't mad until game five. Everything else just felt like they were better. And and that it, but it was like we couldn't even get out of our own way. Oh, yeah.
00:53:58
Speaker
We want to wrap anything else?
00:54:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think we got to start making hashtags to fire moon. Oh, okay. I mean, you know, you're gonna know what's his his option for next year No time Hashtag fire Cappy so I sure you got to come up with something in the next few weeks and we'll start we'll start to eat it out there Yeah, i got goes boom Dude he's just it's just unbelievable Snow must go snow moon is doom
00:54:34
Speaker
What was your fire? It really is just unbelievable to me that that the guy has just been this bad for this long. I mean, it's like like watching Daniel Jones. I mean, really. Get out of the room, Boone. Mike, he's trying. here We're trying. I mean, I mean, you know, we we we make the joke of that. You know, oh, he's true he's he's driving the car. You know, put the put put a car and you have four seats and who are you you know driving out of town and and never, you know, never letting him come back. I always strap Boone to the roof.
00:55:04
Speaker
Just one leg. On top of Clay Holmes. Right. Not Clay Holmes driving, Boone is strapped to the roof. See you soon, Boone. That's not terrible. We're getting there. Boone should go soon. Oh, no. I you just started saying that one about two years ago.
00:55:27
Speaker
Zoom goes Boone. We can make this work. There's a lot.
00:55:33
Speaker
And that wraps up our 1930 episode that we barely touched of Championship or Bust. Thank you so much for listening and we promise we will be back a lot sooner next time, ah hopefully in much better spirits. ah We'll see you later. Peace.