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LD: "Where Pleasant Fountains Lie" & "I, Excretus" (s2e7-8) with Katie Hampton
88 Plays6 days ago
LADIES BE SCHEMING! Billups' mother has been trying to trick her son into losing his virginity so that he can leave Starfleet and take his place on his home world's throne. Meanwhile, a consultant contrives for the Cerritos crew to fail a series of tests to boost her status. Two very funny episodes for this month's animated spotlight, but will Bryan and Katie Hampton from Napping Through Happy Hour podcast TREK, MARRY, or KILL them?
"I, Excretus" begins at (51:31).
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Transcript
Introduction and New Year's Resolutions
00:00:00
Speaker
This month on Trek Mary Kill. Agamis. Animus. Burg. Energize.
00:00:25
Speaker
Trek. Mary. Kill.
00:00:32
Speaker
Hi, I'm Brian. Hi, I'm Katie. Welcome to Check Mary Kill's monthly animated spotlight and Happy New Year! Happy 2025 to our listeners out there. Returning to delve into the delights of Lower Decks is Katie Hampton from the Napping through Happy Hour podcast. Katie, welcome back. Hey, thanks so much for having me on, Brian. I love it.
00:00:51
Speaker
Happy New Year, and I don't know. Do you do New Year's resolutions? Is that a thing? um I usually toy with the idea for about a month and then forget about it two weeks in. ah I feel like a lot of my goals have started much earlier than the new year, probably around November time. I don't know why, but yeah. That's good. It's like you get a jump start. And then once you've figured out what sticks and what doesn't, then you can when someone asks you, you're like,
00:01:17
Speaker
ah well And it's the thing you've been already doing for six weeks. Exactly. know that if No one will know the difference. Exactly. They won't even know that I've i've been starting to work out since two years ago. Your biceps are already looking pretty good. That could be better. I better get started. For the listener, I am in a slank it right now. ah You've never seen a podcaster cozier right now. It's very warm. it's supposed It has a kangaroo pouch for my cats, but they never go in it.
00:01:47
Speaker
For the 30 Rock fans out there, she looks like she's gonna be working on her night cheese later. Yes, oh yes, night cheese. She's wearing the slinket while she's singing that song. Listen, New Year, new comfy me.
00:02:03
Speaker
but also ripped underneath the slinket. Oh, yeah. No, this is just to deter people thinking that I'm just like a lazy slob. This is like a Forex, I think. I'm into a false sense of security. then oh yeah And then WAMO, just a hard rock underneath.
00:02:21
Speaker
You're like Billups. Oh my gosh. What a perfect segue. Jeez. My goodness.
Lower Decks Season 2 Episodes 7 & 8 Overview
00:02:28
Speaker
This month we're looking at episodes seven and eight of Lower Deck's second season. First up is Where Pleasant Fountains Lie, which premiered on Paramount Plus September 23rd, 2021, written by Garrick Bernard, directed by Jason Zurek. I think it's got to be kind of funny when you have names of Star Trek characters and like Garrick, but it's like not the same spelling, but still your name is Garrick.
00:02:50
Speaker
yeah You're Garak and Deep Space Nine, effectively. Maybe that's how he got the job. I mean, I'm not fully certain. but um f Really fun job on this one. i you know that With this one, I was very afraid because Deanna Troi's mom always i hated those episodes.
00:03:13
Speaker
And this felt like it was starting off similarly, and it did not, which I was really glad. This is great. Memory Alpha describes the episode, Mariner and Boimler are stranded on an uninhabited planet. Well, it's a desolate planet with a sentient computer. On the Cerritos, meanwhile, Lieutenant Commander Billups must prove his engineering abilities to an old adversary, his mother.
00:03:34
Speaker
but fitni who is the queen of a Renaissance fair planet, which is pretty pretty funny, actually. It's hilarious. It's hilarious. And I love the fact that they have to change every single one of their science terms into something magical. Magical.
00:03:54
Speaker
the twist is that Billups is heir to the throne and he will immediately ascend to that throne the moment he loses his virginity. And so the whole storyline that we just get dropped into is like, if Lower Decks was not Lower Decks, but it was just a show, Star Trek The Next Next Generation, it was about the Cerritos, we would have been on like early seasons, we would have learned about this issue with Billups. And so the senior staff treats it like, oh yeah, Billups mom who's trying to get him to fuck.
00:04:24
Speaker
it's like but but So it is is a almost, it's a like a perverted form of locks on a Troy. He's always either horny herself or trying to hook Deanna up with somebody. bud But this is like for the, the the but for the male planet.
00:04:40
Speaker
Yeah, the male point of view, but also like a kingdom. So it's great. It's a it's a flattening and goofification of what Star Trek normally does. This is like to me not outside the sphere of Star Trek at all. But we're not. We should probably mention that also in this episode is another Star Trek staple. Yes. If you're talking about tropes. Yes.
00:05:02
Speaker
Jeffrey Combs. Every single time but I rewatch this episode, I'm like, oh my God, that's right. I forgot. And it's just such a delight to hear his voice and like, oh, what a shithole he plays. He plays Agamis, the malevolent computer that enslaved a planet or made it worship it as a god. Uh, another Star Trek staple, but, uh, Jeffrey Combs, Mary Elfa is a little, not disingenuous because they very clearly listed as appearances. And technically they are correct that each of these iterations are different characters, but I counted, they list him 20 times.
00:05:42
Speaker
20 appearances of Star Trek ah in Star Trek, starting in Deep Space Nine. And that's because Ira Stephen Bear was a big fan of that horror movie that he was in, and now I'm blanking on the name of it. Oh, shoot.
00:05:55
Speaker
I even looked him up too because I was like, I know what he looks like, but I just I realized I know him mostly from his voiceover or his like hidden in some kind of a costume. Yeah, reanimator. Oh, right. That's the thing that like got him on a lot of people's radar what he was famous for before Deep Space Nine really, a genre guy, a horror guy, a great actor, great performer, great character guy. but he So 20 appearances in Star Trek according to Memory Alpha, but it's really seven characters because I count the clones of the Vorta oh as just the, it's a clone. So it's kind of the same character, even though there are different variations.
00:06:33
Speaker
It's like Tatiana Mussolini
Star Trek Character Actor Spotlight
00:06:35
Speaker
playing like 11 different versions of herself. It's so many different accents in yeah Black Orphan. Orphan Black. bla yeah Yeah. That's the library the library filing of that show. Exactly. yeah It's trying to go for the Dewey Decimal System. That's right. This is going to sound mean it's not, but not like a versatile performer, really good at playing these slimy guys. And even when he's kind and gentle, which he can be, which is what's like a SRAM character in Enterprise, it's always like, but just so you know, that's a pause for me being slim. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, it always makes me wonder anytime I hear his voice or see him in the show, I'm like, you're like, I hope a good guy because you're such a working character actor. I hope that like none of this is just easily pullable for you.
00:07:29
Speaker
So this is his eighth role, Agamis, technically in Star Trek, that i that I'm counting, because I don't see a picture of it on his ah Memory Alpha page. But I want to ask you, Katie, because, oh, no, it's a, there it is. Yeah, it's a, so I want to ask you though, because you are a working actor and I want to know, is it the dream to be Jeffrey Combs? Is that like the more attainable dream or is it still like, no, I want to be Nicole Kidman or Tom Cruise? Like that's,
00:07:56
Speaker
i I don't want to be Nicole Kidney or Tom Cruise. It's one of those things that like I have said from the start of my acting career. I don't want to be
Comparing "The Diplomat" and "The West Wing"
00:08:04
Speaker
famous. I just want to be working on things and a working actor. And character acting is the only thing I've ever seen myself in. I honestly, the one person that I feel like I could either ah model my career after or feel comfortable being like, oh, like that is Margo Martindale or or Alice and Jani, and I would be happy with either version. Did you watch her appearance on The Diplomat? I did not. I haven't seen The Diplomat yet. Oh, so The Diplomat is made, I don't know how big into the West Wing you ever got. Oh, oh yes. Yes. Yeah. So The Diplomat is basically
00:08:45
Speaker
Netflix is like, we want to do a so we want to do our scandal. We have Shonda Rhimes in the tent, but she doesn't want to do it. But we want to scandal. So what can we do? Well, scandal is basically like Shonda Rhimes being like, I wish I could have made the West Wing with some intrigue. And so that's what she was copying. So then Netflix got Deborah Khan, who was a writer on the West Wing, even during the Sorkin years, and then really ah rose to prominence after he left. And they were like, make A wet wing. A wet scandal. And she's like, OK, well, scandal is just the West Wing. And so Carrie Russell's the star of The Diplomat. But I watch the West Wing many, many, many times. It's not a show that I stumped for anymore or whatever. It's like a remnant of its era. For sure. I will say the Thanksgiving episode is what we watch every year for Thanksgiving. And I will be watching and weeping this entire Thanksgiving for those of you listening. We are recording before Thanksgiving. That's right.
00:09:42
Speaker
That's right. We did a little showbiz magic and pretended. It's the new year. It's 2025. Right now in November 2024, we are not looking forward to 2025. No, no. We'll be honest. Or any projects they're in. That's right.
00:09:59
Speaker
ah but I like was half watching it while my wife was into the first season and I just kept hearing Kerry Russell speaking and I'm like, oh my God, that's CJ, which is Alison Janney's character. yeah And then I'm like, who made this show? And I'm like, oh my God, it's separate con who like, it's CJ. So that I'm watching the first seasons, like it's CJ, CJ, CJ. And then it
Comedy and Star Trek Tropes in Lower Decks
00:10:18
Speaker
ends and then season two starts and then who do they bring in but Alison Janney.
00:10:23
Speaker
I'm like, well, this seems very strange. It's very funny. Interesting. Okay. I'm going to have to check that out. Those are great models. So if you're, especially like Margo Martindale, like that means you're going to do some theater. You got to go to Broadway or Chicago or something. Yeah. I mean, Allison Janney too. She was in several, several Broadway shows.
00:10:42
Speaker
yeah no and Honestly, the stage is where I started and I love it. and um Every time I go back to it, i I'm like, oh yeah, I forgot that I like a live audience and not just someone holding their reaction before they yell cut. yeah ah Projecting to the back of the house. Yes, that from the diaphragm, Brian. sir That's right.
00:11:03
Speaker
Anyway, I thought we talked about that. Jeffrey comes, his contribution to Star Trek is so great. I mean, and what a joy that must be. Like, you're just the guy that's always in Star Trek. Like, how cool is that? Like, to this to be playing different characters, albeit usually some pretty slick and slimy characters. Yeah.
00:11:21
Speaker
But like, how fun is that to be asked to come back to do a different character to do something else? um That absolutely, I mean, I feel like that kind of spans the gamut of different like productions and people that you work with and building that kind of a relationship with people, especially within a fandom ah dream.
00:11:40
Speaker
Especially since Deep Space Nine kind of got him on board and remember
Unique Humor in Comedy Bang Bang
00:11:43
Speaker
that Deep Space Nine is the middle child of Star Trek and was basically ignored for its whole run. right So whatever they were doing on there, it's interesting to see the things that the other shows picked up on is like, we should do that too.
00:11:55
Speaker
We should arc some storylines. But they're also like Jeffrey Coates. He pops up in Voyager. He pops up in Enterprise and becomes a main figure in Enterprise. In Enterprise, I'm just running through my mental catalog, had no connection to Deep Space Nine. Ron Moore for a minute was on Voyager. Some of them went over to Voyager for a second, and then they realized the show sucks. We're going on. No, Pat, sorry, sorry. It was not Deep Space Nine. They were doing a different thing, but they didn't come back then for Enterprise, so it's just interesting to see. You're like, well, Jeffrey Combs, that's a valuable utility guy to have in there. And Shran is different from Brunt, who's different from Weyun, and it's on and on. All different from Magnus, yeah. And there were certainly calls when Strange New Worlds was getting started to be like, he could be Dr. Piper, you know, and we could bring him back and he could be Ansemounce Conscience or like his advisor or whatever. And I think we know that, well, Pike does need that. So that would be a different energy. Kind of interesting. Yeah. Anyway, let's get into this episode. We're talking about, again, Where Pleasant Fountains Lie is the first episode of Lower Decks to feature scenes on or near Earth.
00:13:10
Speaker
Okay, were they on or here Earth? I didn't realize that. I was wondering about that. I did not. I'm trying to think where that's coming from. Oh, it's because the implication is that when they take the, oh, because they go back to the Dachem Institute to return Agamis at the end, two it's put in that it gets put in that warehouse. It's like the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark with all these computers. So that is,
00:13:34
Speaker
Good job, Memory Alpha. This is why I love Memory Alpha. This is like... Yeah, well, that's that deep dive stuff that I go to new rock stories for, and that's that kind of thing. ah The title is a quote from William Shakespeare's erotic poem, Venus and Adonis. I didn't go and fish that out and look it up. If you're trying to audition or do some stage work, maybe. had some I could go for a nice sexual poem to get all the Willy Shakes. Ooh, erotic Billy S. Yes, all right. Willy Shakes. Exactly. Does that know what everybody calls them?
Analysis of "I, Excretus" Episode
00:14:08
Speaker
It's like the tip jar. Willy Shakes or Billy S. there yes
00:14:13
Speaker
One of the evil computers that is seen at the Daystrom Institute at the end, the thing I just mentioned, ah bears the CBS logo. Insane. That's such a fun thing to catch. I did not catch that. but I was trying to look at all the different symbols ah when I was watching it again. And I was like, all right, I didn't notice anything outward. And then when I saw this note, this CBS look, I was like, oh, interesting.
00:14:37
Speaker
So a little problem glimpse into my process here. I'll watch an episode just to have some general thoughts and then I will go and I'll do the research and then I will send the rundown based on that and I'll go back and watch. So somewhere between the first watch and then doing the notes and going back, I forgot this last one. Bill's mother, Queen Pallana, was voiced by Paul Scheer's real life wife, June Diane Raphael.
00:15:00
Speaker
I'm saying your name wrong. June Diane Raphael. Thank you. I knew I was wrong. I i mean, it's how it's spelled. It should be June Diane Raphael. by But she doesn't want to be linked to Sally Jessie Raphael. And I understand.
00:15:14
Speaker
um Sharon Rafale hosts the podcast how did this get made with Jason manzoukis of Star Trek prodigy Katie you a big fan of how did this get made I am a huge fan um I actually the last time I saw them live I saw them doing a cover of Virtuosity which is a sci-fi film with Denzel Washington i saw that in the theater Oh, my God, it's so bad. I was just stunned. I was out utterly stunned at how bad this movie was. Well, there was a time in the 90s where it's like the computer, the computer, the computer is evil. And, you know, the net and all that's that stuff. Oh, yeah. No, it's every every movie was like beware the computer. And it's like, oh, don't worry, that won't happen until 2025. But i've one of the things I love about how did this get made
00:16:02
Speaker
is just how many productions I've been in that have been complete shit shows. And it's like, oh, yeah, like people still make things. So those of you who are artists and creatives out there that are just ah hoping that one day you'll make something great. Denzel Washington was in this freaking project and he still had a career. So keep going. And and again, this idea that nobody knows anything is actually it's not like verifiable, but it's like it's more true than not because for people who don't make stuff like you can sometimes tell while you're making something like if you're part of a bigger production or even if you're just sketching something on your own like this sucks it's gonna be shit yeah and there's like nothing you can do fine sometimes though it feels like that and it turns out great
00:16:50
Speaker
Yeah, sometimes it feels great and it turns out like shit. Like really, that's how you know. It's like nobody knows. You just have to do your best, which is kind of hard to do when it feels like it's getting away from you. But that's why Denzel Washington ever thought that movie sucked. You don't see it happen. Sometimes you do see performers where you can see like, oh, they're kind of giving up or they're looking good. George Clooney is Batman? Yeah. A little bit of that. Yeah.
00:17:18
Speaker
No, and it it it's so it's it speaks more to the effect of like, as actors like I mean, this was like my note as a young actor so many times and it's still something that I struggle with even now when I know something is bad and not going to go well or poorly written.
00:17:33
Speaker
I'm it's really hard for me to pretend like it'll be fine and just do my best with it. That's why I could I got out of acting. I'm like, I can't I start. I mean, when I was like a teenager and in college, there are people being like, are you going to keep doing this and like people offering me stuff? And I was like, I.
00:17:52
Speaker
can't keep doing this. It's really hard. to you have the As I became more self-conscious in my real life, I could not push that away while then acting. It was not an escape. It was just an additional thing to think about and yeah and be aware of. And so the the people who are committed, they don't have ego death.
00:18:15
Speaker
But they they find an eye in the storm in their performance. And I have so much respect for the professionalism on top of the fact that we all know that, yes, they are a different breed of people, actors, performers. yeah But it's like how to the extent that that should matter is like, well, they do the work. Like most people watching movies and TV, you're never going to interact with these people.
00:18:41
Speaker
and So why does it really matter what they do in their personal life? As long as they're not like committing crimes, that's very serious. But like when they're weird, they are weird. You're right. Liberal freaky Hollywood. There's a ring of truth to it. There is a little ring of truth to it. That's for sure. And i trust me, I've seen various different versions of what that can encompass. I think the one saving grace that I have had, especially in being around actors and understanding actors and being an actor myself,
00:19:07
Speaker
is that as long as I stay in comedy, I can at least get perspective and I get humbled on a weekly basis. so Well, to the extent that it undermines culture, it's certainly not the extent of like no regulations to dump all the pollution and all the clean stuff. right like It's every man for himself, turn in your neighbor, blah, blah, blah. Cut taxes so and then lay off so that we can make the line go up. like There's other that we are, as people are asked to make so many different sacrifices or whatever, like who Scarlett Johansson is doing in elevators at her own time, it's irrelevant. Remember that rumor, that like pernicious rumor that's, anyways, like whatever it is that's going on, like obviously if there's like ditty alleged crimes and shit, like some should be fucking boxed in, but it's like, like to some extent it's like that's,
00:19:58
Speaker
That's just criminality. There's a line of criminality that's like, okay. Of course, celebrity culture props it up. Again, there's like, plus is minus. What I'm getting at is like, I respect the creative process, the performers who make this stuff. We're certainly seeing the art in this episode.
00:20:15
Speaker
this is like We are dealing with two episodes right now that's kind of drifting off of what we were talking about last month where there's like, oh, it's kind of like a ah raw like working blues, some raw sexuality going on in Star Trek here. But this is like them feeling very comfortable in in making lower decks right now. Yeah, you can feel the groove that's hitting them. Yeah. um And I think that's just like artists feeling free to to explore the space. Yeah. basic Right and well I mean and that's like every time I see the opening of this episode when I see the mom of the Renaissance the Phillips mom I'm like, oh no, this is a locks Troy Yeah yeah and tro yeah yeah um episode and I'm always like, oh I think I hate this one and then I go through it again I'm like, oh no, this it has so much more in it and it and like they they not only kind of rectify some of their
00:21:10
Speaker
sexual tension type ah parts of the episode but they also like have more complete arcs with different characters and different dynamics and this one I think especially helps with that. Yeah let's get into the grades then. Yeah. We'll start with great moments.
00:21:26
Speaker
Um, just Billups in love with his virginity because that's what makes him an engineer. It feels a little bit like, ah I don't know. Picking on nerds. Picking on some some engineering nerds for sure, but it's not even like It's like, we don't even have a word for it, but it's the opposite of an incel. It's a- It's a vole cell. It's a vole cell. It's a vole cell. Yeah. And great for him, but how hysterical it is that it's his wife that's playing his mom. His mother, yes, who wants him to have sex. And they initially leave it out there to be like, with her? They really do just let that hang in the air. Yeah, Rutherford's even like, what? Yeah, because the lower deckers don't understand what's happening here. The senior staff does. Right, right. They all know, which is something that we end up addressing in the next episode, but still hysterical. I put Jeffrey Combs doing anything just so fun and such a great character. So many incredible lines.
00:22:35
Speaker
um Boimler showing up for Mariner um for once by tricking her instead. So glad that he stunned her. ah yes Though while watching it the first time, I remember being like, what are you doing, you stupid idiot?
00:22:51
Speaker
Uh, no, that's good. Yeah. He has to basically, if Agamis gets near any technology, he's going to take it over. It's going to take it over and then try to build an evil drone fleet that enslaves whoever's around. Yeah. And, and what they really need is energy to send a distress call. yeah And so Boimler works backwards of like, all right, I'm going to trick this computer into being the device that powers the distress call. So yeah, it was fun. Uh, can we go back to the Rutherford Billups part of the storyline where they go onto his mother's ship, the monovine?
00:23:22
Speaker
When we find out the ship, she's like, our dragon's breath is a drive, is not powering the ship. And Rutherford explains to, or sorry, Billups explains to Rutherford that they've basically renamed all the normal technology, just with magical names. Rutherford immediately tries to play along, and he's like, the elf matrix, is it working? And he's like, don't do that. It's so great. Just don't play into that. We can do that, don't do that.
00:23:50
Speaker
I really like the moment where Freeman basically calls Billups back to the ship and then offers, well I just figured because it's your mother. You'd need an excuse. There's a nice little bit of ah mythology or history lore, like a background between these two characters, nice gesture by the captain, good of a leadership role.
00:24:11
Speaker
um And then I kind of thought the the explosion, the false flag operation basically, and that act out is kind of shocking. yeah Because it ends on a nice place and it's like, okay, well, where's the story going to go? And then like, oh no, there's been some disaster. Because they certainly planted a red herring that the resonators that they've repaired shouldn't have had the damage that it did. And this could be a fleet wide problem. So they certainly set up like, oh, maybe there's something more going on here.
00:24:39
Speaker
Right. And then my last great moment from the episode was once Tendi, because she said Rutherford died in this explosion, allegedly, so we'll track down his implant. She finds that he's still alive. And apparently the mother beamed them all out of there and just had the explosion. Yep.
00:24:55
Speaker
There's a moment where they're about to leave. They can't communicate with Billups before he's about to be defrocked or like this is virginity to some surprisingly hot animated character. Very hot yeah and like ah ah very clearly by characters and ah I love that.
00:25:14
Speaker
But i did I did find it hilarious that they basically had any option because they weren't really sure what Billups kind of swung with. Right. um But also, so to close the loop on that, Rutherford feels very strongly he needs to protect Billups virginity. and money crew There's a ah ah one of the Ren Faire people just starts playing their lute and it sends these waves out that block their communication. yeah It's a Scott Pilgrim moment. They're copying the bass off yeah in Scott Pilgrim between Michael Cera and Brandon Routh. And Rutherford just kicks him unconscious and runs past him. So I just put that a little beat there. Again, it is very funny that they're basically like, we must protect his virginity. He loves his virginity. I mean, engineering.
00:26:02
Speaker
yeah So those are the ones I had. Did you have any more? I just thought it was a great moment that we finally get Boimler pulling one over Mariner. This is something that we very rarely see. And yeah what a great character moment, because he's constantly talking about his whole time on the Titan. And we also know from watching him on the Titan that he wasn't exactly happy on the Titan. No. Remember, he goes undercover in that one episode, and they're like, we know your Starfleet.
00:26:33
Speaker
He's trying to act like he's got all this experience. Dude, we get it. You're Starfleet. No, it's true. And but it was good. It was like a nice like that whole storyline was basically like when we're allegedly upset that Mariner never believed in him. But that's not the case at all. It was just she wasn't sure. And she he more than proved himself. But he never was. it It wasn't like he was coming up with a plan to prove her wrong.
00:26:57
Speaker
It was like he was feeding letting it feed into his overarching plan, right? Because he devised his plan immediately. Right, well which was was kind of i rewatching it. I was like, oh, yeah I can't remember. Did they do this together? Are they in on this? And then like as it went on and he stuns Mariner, I was like, oh, that's right. He was doing the plan and not Mariner wasn't in on it, which I feel like really upped my league validity on Boiler being a good dude.
00:27:26
Speaker
yeah Yeah, these two episodes, like the twinning is very strange here, but Boimler's extraordinary competency does not feel out of character. It actually does feel like in this episode specifically that he has learned a lot from Eriner. Yeah.
00:27:41
Speaker
Yeah. and And the Titan, like it's all coming together. I mean, come together you just switch those characters and give her like some kind of like, you know, when I was on DS9, this happened or whatever. Yeah, right. is So it's it's like ah a great episode for either character, but it was also a great episode for Mariner to kind of be put in her place and be like, you you can't save me from everything. I have to learn how to be good at this stuff, too. Yeah. ah Best trek tropes. I have a couple. ah Go for it. Go for it.
00:28:11
Speaker
the malevolent computer mind. Of course. It's always great. And they didn't talk it to death, which I find that they didn't. I'm glad that they tricked it in the way that they tricked it. But you know, I like that as a best trick trope. It's one we should explore more, especially now that.
00:28:26
Speaker
people are very committed to creating God in the form of AI yeah i'm letting and letting that make all the decisions, yeah mainly as a cover for what they want to do. Oh, it wasn't my decision. right The AI, I'm i'm blameless. yeah We just made the AI.
00:28:41
Speaker
So, and then the other one is the monocultural planet. Oh, I have a couple more actually. The monocultural planet, the Ren Faire planet. like That is established in the text. They conquered dragons and made it a Renaissance era planet.
00:28:56
Speaker
Yeah, and then they just named everything after magical names instead of making it. This is like this is the different why lower decks, I think, can rub people the wrong way. And I don't blame them of like, this is a cartoonish extrapolation of something Star Trek does. But wouldn't it be great to have this kind of version with this kind of simple jokiness, as opposed to when we had the full-on Shakespeare shows in the beginning? But I mean, like, we had this, the Irish people, you know, we had the hippies, way to eat and, you know, so we've had this already in life. Actually, we saw how it didn't work. Now, this one actually has the juice of like, Billups is from here.
00:29:37
Speaker
which I can't imagine. I can't think of any other situations where that's been the case, where one of our main characters is from. I mean, tend kill planet wrecks I mean, Tendi is kind of like, especially with like the pirating type stuff. they There's a little bit of that, but you don't you don't get it as whimsical and hilarious as you do with Billups. And especially the fact that he's he he even like has to put he code switches in his language. with the engineering. That's the thing that's like really funny.
00:30:10
Speaker
The most ridiculous part, that is correct. But that's why I put it as the best trek trip. I'm like, yeah it really works here. It's funny. oh like This is using it for something where it's intentionally funny and is actually funny. yeah I think it's actually funny, everything that's going on. It's hysterical. And I think that's why it works in the cartoon version as opposed to some of the live action stuff where it's it's not a roll your eye episode as I would have expected it to be if it had been a TNG or Deep Space Niner or whatever. It actually makes real the the
00:30:44
Speaker
the What am I trying to say? The difference that they've always trying to play off of way to eat in and just whatever, like they've always tried to play this just difference between what Starfleet and like normal people are like, and this wacky thing is here, it actually like makes perfect sense, even though in the middle of it is this guy who's proudly a virgin. yeah Like it's still like- And it's even like trying to give himself a pep talk so he could become king.
00:31:09
Speaker
ah love And that was my other best trek trip was fluid sexuality. Oh, yeah, no, that was that was one of the things that I i actually have on here is that um one of the things that I think that they don't necessarily do quite so well in the live action all the time, but they did really well in this animation was we have a lot of sexual stuff in these two episodes.
00:31:34
Speaker
ah I promise I did not know this. This is a fun part of the show of Trek Mary Kills going back and being like, whoa, what's this matchy matchy? Yeah, no, no, totally. And of what's hilarious is that like, we kind of found that matchy matchiness by just doing these two episodes like back back like each time because there are certain themes that carry over and we're also making fun of you know themes from some of the live action shows and I mean a lot of I guess what the next episode reminds me of but a lot of this episode too reminds me of the the one we're in TNG where every everybody kind of gets taken over by like the sexual bug and everybody's banging everybody like
00:32:17
Speaker
data Yeah, yeah, poly water problem. Yeah. Yeah um Yeah, so I thought how they did this was actually really fun and like ah a less almost aggressive Storing-telling with like hyper sexuality. That's a perfect way of saying it's a it's less aggressive It actually is like once you establish what they are if you know anything about Ren fairs or rent your people yeah this is spotless. This is exactly exactly if they were spacefaring, this is how what they would be. So maybe if you don't know anything about that culture and you just are a Star Trek fan, you might find it also off putting because it's sexuality. But then I just go like, well, think back to when Star Trek has been already throughout time. This really isn't that different from the other live action examples. No, it's just that it gets a little more naked than you're used to. see That's about it.
00:33:14
Speaker
Yeah, well, which is hilarious. And then also the the greatest reveal of all is that Billups is utterly cut. Yeah, right. though ah Well, there's ah it's the Ned Flanders situation, right? Like the the pious religious guy who denies himself the world's pleasures is also like ripped and very healthy. Yep.
00:33:36
Speaker
yep
00:33:39
Speaker
and Did you have any other best trick tropes being stranded on a ah deserted planet and trying to figure something out while they have like yet another impending and it wasn't it's kind of like a It didn't happen. So this is make this makes me happy that it's a best trick trope because we didn't have like a the evil animal on the planet while Boimler and Mariner were kind of trekking around and trying to find their way back to humanity. like When the pods fall from the tree so that they can finally get some kind of sustenance and and liquid in their body that unfortunately also tastes like black licorice. I love the fact that it wasn't like, oh yeah, this is the food for some giant like evil animal that they end up having to have like the computer try and take over or something. That's a great point. So like the trope is a two-hander of being stranded. Yes. Because that happens a lot. That's a good one. It's a little cave, like, you know, it' a little bit of a cave episode. Well, yeah, but this is just another version of that. Like, OK, I have a convention to make. Star Trek Deep Space Nine is at times my favorite Star Trek show. But not every time, but most of the time. But there's an episode that I had never seen because when I
00:34:51
Speaker
was going like I just didn't tape it but I didn't want to watch it when I saw the preview for it I was not interested in it and so for my whole life until literally two weeks ago oh man I finally watched it because it was on Pluto TV of course it was the ascent on Deep Sea Stein it was when Odo and Quark are stranded on this planet together I'm like I don't I know what that episode's going to be. Like, do I care about Odo and Quark having like an adventure where they're getting on each other's nerves and whatever? No, I don't care. I know how that's going to go because I've been watching Deep Sea Sign the whole time. It was not a concept I was interested in, but now I'm older, now I'm more calm down. I'm like, I'm just going to let it.
00:35:31
Speaker
Swish over me. Let's see what happens. and But it's just it's the same thing. It's like you put two characters together, strand them. What comes out of that struggle together? And here it was like, I think adding the extra element of the malevolent intelligence right that's basically pecking at them the entire time. It was both an issue they have to confront and is creating a conflict between them is a unique spin on the whole thing. The best tre joe biden worst Trek Where's Trek tropes?
00:36:00
Speaker
Dumb mothers, like, bitchy dumb mothers. Overbearing. Overbearing. Yes, I mean, I just, I would love to see in Star Trek, a mother that's motherly. You know, Picard's mother, the ghost of her that we see, she seemed pretty cool. She seemed kind of loving. That board queen seems really happy. When we see her in flashback in Star Trek Picard season two, she seemed kind of loving, but yes, that's it. Yeah, flashbacks and a ghost.
00:36:27
Speaker
yeah So ah mothers are only great when they're dead. It's one of the things that i I realize every time I start this episode, like it kind of raises my hackles because I'm just like, oh, why can't we just have like a nice mom that cares? I do like, though, that the scheming is much more complicated because we get the impression that she's done similar versions of this, like she's willing to blow up part of her ship and all this stuff. She said that she's dying. That's another worst trip that I have, by the way, is the like the false like death, especially for Rutherford. That was like a that was a little bit like, oh, no, they killed Rutherford. I was like, well, he'll probably come back because Jax came or Shax came back. It'll be fine. And the fact that Tendi was the one that discovered I was just I don't know. There was something very like
00:37:23
Speaker
Really? Did we have to do it like that? Well, in the rooms, they call it schmuck bait. Yeah. But but also, you know, again, the twinning thing kind of interesting that, again, something the main crew is not paying attention to. Tendi is able to figure out immediately. Right. Right. Yeah. No, that's a good that's a good one. Here's mine. It's a very important one. OK. Shuttles be crashing. Yeah. Shuttles do be crashing, though. you I don't know of an episode where we just have a shuttle and it works out. Yeah. Yeah. there Sometimes they'll throw a curveball and like they're on their way and they detect an anomaly or they get a distress call that deviates them from the course. But here it's just like no warning. And then suddenly they're near a planet and it's just like, okay.
00:38:09
Speaker
And this planet's like a Bermuda Triangle where all these other ships have been pulled in. It's just like kind of ridiculous. But no, it's very ridiculous. But it gets us into the story, I guess, which is fine. but Right. But, shuttles do be crashing. I love that. That's exactly how it should be phrased. Star Trek, shuttles be crashing. ah i This is one of mine that i I'm actually, and maybe you can speak more on this, but I'm not even sure this is a real moment. But um the evil computer, Agamis, shows Boimler mariner ratting out Boimler to Commander Ransom.
00:38:48
Speaker
um that he's not ready for a big mission, yada, yada. It's interesting that A, Agamis has that information, B, Mariner says, why are you trusting him? that' He's totally lying to you. um It's another example that like feels like something that Mariner actually would do, and we come to find out later, she did kind of do.
00:39:11
Speaker
ah We don't know if it was exactly in that way or not. I don't know how Agamis would have that content. That was my thought that the pad Ransom is using ah is the pad he gives to Mariner when they go on the mission. And so when Agamis assimilates it, that's got it okay that's how he gets the conversation. OK, that's how he gets the conversation. Now, maybe he then AI creates the scene since we're looking at them. It's not like a first person POV or something. but Maybe, yeah, maybe, who knows? But at the same time, it it was like, it felt like a worst trek trope for Mariner, that she's constantly trying to get Boiler away from all the danger. And it's just like such a shady, shitty way to do it. um And I like how it resolves itself. But it's also like, can we just get Mariner to do something like solid for some people and not yeah kind of make it her own agenda? Yeah.
00:40:04
Speaker
No it's a good one I mean and it doesn't really get resolved because if only because he was able to jump through the hoop right that he didn't know that his friend had set for him but he was gonna do it anyway because she never believed in him that's what it is she never believed in him yeah he's been saying he learned that she said, no, you didn't, you idiot, you little soft baby, right i proved her wrong. You're too innocent, and and he proves her wrong, which is great. And I i love that moment and and and agree, it didn't fully come to fruition, but it's also it's also one of those things that's just like, i I wouldn't want to spend more time on this because it's it's kind of a shitty friend move to be like, oh, I didn't believe in you in the first place. And I had to i had to jump through your hoop in order to prove to you that I can do this. That's right.
00:40:53
Speaker
Yeah, any others? I think, yeah, the fake the fake death of Rutherford really bugged me. Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's it. Stupid Starfleet ethics is something Agamis says and I say or no, it was a.
00:41:13
Speaker
Mariner who says that when Boimler's like we can't destroy this computer. It's it's sentient. We're Starfleet. We're Starfleet. We're not gonna do that. Yes, it is dumb. I'm but knowing that that's part of his scheme. I need to use this machine to power distress call fine, but I guess it's like All right, I guess it's selling it. But I also think like a malevolent computer machine, why are they why not just beat it with sticks? Yeah, why was Starfleet taking it at all? Like there was never an explanation in the beginning of why they would do that. And we saw last season that they left. No one came back to take
00:41:51
Speaker
um to take the computer from Return of the Archons, Landrew. So it's just like, yeah they could have just said like, well after Landrew, get them out of there. Yeah, we need them all to stop. And then they could have had a joke where someone's like, ah you're not going to take that music for your own nefarious purposes, are you? And and and then Ransom's like, I don't think so.
00:42:14
Speaker
something like I don't know, just something to like add it into why it has to be here instead of just blown up anyway. Right. Right. Yeah. so I thought that as like a we're don't destroy. It's not a sentient. It's a malevolent computer. Just fucking it destroy. Yeah. Just destroy it. Like, I mean, take out its power cube, you know, whatever. Yeah.
00:42:35
Speaker
And then the other one I had is, this is a Lower Decks worst trek trope for me. It's flattening a serious problem into a punchline. In this case, Agamis just gets boxed and warehoused in an Indiana Jones type thing, which is like, Indiana Jones is not like serious drama. It's a pulp adventure story. That's the conception of it. But just like the real world implications, if I may, like it just seems like you're just doing it for the gag.
00:43:03
Speaker
So it feels a little bit like you're putting all the supervillains in one prison. And we all know what happens when that goes down. You're going to get the board. Do you want the board? Because you get the board. That's how you get the board. Or that's how you get a team up with Agamis, Peanut Hamper and Badgy. Yeah, we don't want that. No, no one wants that. Most cosplayable character or moment?
00:43:28
Speaker
um I think it'd be hilarious to strap an evil computer to your chest, um of a la Boimler, and to have it puppeteer its arms, offering food quotes, charge your phone. And you could even put a little voice box in there of things Jeffrey Combs said. Yeah. Oh, that's ah that's better. That's great. What'd you think? What'd you think? No, it's but that's better than anything I had. I just thought if you were really going to go for it, though, you put on the mustache and you are Billups in the hotel.
00:43:56
Speaker
Oh yeah. If you were a confident Star Trek fan at a convention. Yeah, no, a hundred percent. Yeah, I have. My second one is basically just anyone from the Renaissance ship. I think yours is great, though, and I think just putting the voice box in that as well to make it talk. Because all you have to do is- That's a good one. Someone better do an agonist. Yeah. If you have like a red shirt, like torn red shirt type of cosplay or something like that, just strap a box to yourself with a voice box in it and maybe like a little puppeteering army thing. You can even be ransom carrying it, but then your arms are full. You don't want that. Oh, you could do like fake arms carrying it. It's just like in front of you. Oh, that's true. Your hands are- Your hands are big proponents of the fake arms. I'm getting very muppeteery with this.
00:44:46
Speaker
Now it's time for the line, Mr. Jones. Great lines. When Agamis shouts, I have rights. It's so funny. He's getting dragged off by little crabs. He says, I have rights. The computer, black licorice, dry. um Black licorice, black. That's the one I have.
00:45:09
Speaker
The replicator is the only thing working on the crash shuttle and it will only replicate black licorice. It's different varieties. Hilarious too that like you come to find out later that the only fruit on the planet tastes like black licorice. And I was like, oh, that's awful. I'm glad I'm not in this universe. Your thoughts on black licorice?
00:45:30
Speaker
Oh, awful. Oh, I agree with ah Mariner. I think she says the only thing that tastes like poison.
00:45:37
Speaker
Jagermeister, that's black licorice to me. And I'm like, why would anyone drink this? It's black licorice. I had one shot one time in a San Francisco bar during ah San Francisco Sketchfest of Jagermeister because every bar has it. And I was like, oh, this is just a black licorice shot. This is disgusting. And I never had it since.
00:45:57
Speaker
You people are sick. You disgust you disgust me.
00:46:03
Speaker
um And then I've got Agamis. Well, you know, I could have fixed your replicator right now. You could have been enjoying a cheeseburger or a blueberry muffin. And then Mariner says, don't. Agamis guacamole.
00:46:20
Speaker
They just wanted to hear Jeffrey Combs say guacamole. Absolutely. And i I'm all there for it. At the beginning of the episode um when Boimler has his phaser rifle um and they're asking about, Mariner's asking, how's that different from a regular phaser? And he says, you'd use two hands.
00:46:43
Speaker
Rutherford, what? No, Billups loves his virginity. Yes. yeah I gotta stop Billups from doing the do. He's doing the do. Oh, that was so funny. Billups, you need to accept the fact that I'll be a virgin for the rest of my life. but I sure hope that they they let Billups lose his virginity and then they have to keep it from his mom the entire time.
00:47:08
Speaker
That's funny. And then maybe it'll just be like a misunderstanding somehow. Somehow. Yeah. Somewhere in the bylaws. Now it's time for the line must be drawn here. Great art. Um, the planet that Mariner and Boilerly and Dawn was so cool and all those craft ships and everything. Like it was like the tone almost shifted at that point where it was yeah like, Oh, things got serious. Like, Ooh, this is interesting. And it made me lean in. And I thought that was a really beautiful moment.
00:47:35
Speaker
It was a scale that they could do because it's animation and it worked really well to ground the episode in something serious. Having said that, I really, and I agree with you, that is the great art. Yeah. But I really liked what they did on the Ren Faire ship.
00:47:52
Speaker
because it looked really cool and just this side of technical technically sure, if these people were insane enough to become space fairs after going full rent fair, fine. It looked good. I thought it was kind of cool. um And it works in animation. so ah So really the whole episode I thought had some great art in it. I agree. I agree. Would this have been a fun Hollow novel to play out?
00:48:16
Speaker
Absolutely fixing the Renaissance ship with the bonus level of avoiding guards to stop Phillips from having sex. Hilarious and fun. i I don't think I would love the Hollow novel of playing with Agathys. I just don't want to fall out of a tree. Yeah, that too. Which Boimler definitely does. I agree with you, this would have been half fun to play. Yeah. So what part of this will they teach at Starfleet Academy? I left this blank.
00:48:41
Speaker
I said, hopefully how to secure those computers at the Daystrom Institute, because holy cow, that computer is getting out ah out and teaming up with Peanut Hamper, Badgie, and at some point, you know it. Yeah, I guess I kind of thought...
00:48:56
Speaker
Maybe this isn't something that's taught in class, but it's just like, don't snitch on your fellow crew members. yeah Like going behind Boimler's back is pretty shitty, very what Mariner does. um you know Mariner might be super competent, but she's effectively like a libertarian. She's just in it for herself. yes like It's kind of destructive. And maybe it's just that Boimler is a good friend and an understanding person. He understands that that's how she is.
00:49:24
Speaker
And I think there are friendships that exist like that, right? yeah You're like, this person is on the whole pretty good to me, but there is that that like drag coefficient that's always there of them being a little ah little shitty for their own reasons. And yeah. yeah ah So trick, marry, or kill where pleasant fountains lie.
00:49:46
Speaker
See, no, this was a hard one for me because I am teetering on the edge of Mary and Trek at the moment. And I kind of want to hear your opinion to make a solid choice. I wasn't the same. I'm not lying. I was on the same thing. Don't do it. But I really thought at the end of the day, like.
00:50:01
Speaker
We're talking about the Mariner part of it. Yeah. And we're talking about I don't think I liked the Agonist storyline quite as much as the Billups thing, which was mainly just silly. And it repeats stuff we've already seen with Tendi being concerned about Rutherford, but then they don't even bother to investigate. And so it's like a very strong trek. Yeah. I like you. This episode is not read as something that's going to be really good, but it's very funny. It's very funny it's very entertaining.
00:50:31
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's a good just throw it on type of episode. like yes It's not an episode that i'll I'll skip from now on. I think the last time I was going through, I saw the beginning of this and I was like, maybe not today. um it's not It's not that it's not a good episode or anything by any stretch of the imagination. It's definitely something I want to rewatch more and more now.
00:50:52
Speaker
But 40%, the theory is that 40% of Star Trek episodes are basically treks. They're they're good. yeah They're good episodes of Star Trek. This is a good episode of Star Trek. yeah It does have stuff we've seen before, and it doesn't really- It's not profound. Yeah, it's not profound. It's not like a great episode of television, which I tend to reserve for the Marys. So, I mean, this is a good episode. Well, there's nothing to complain about, really. Really? Yeah. So, there we go. yeah So I'd say a solid trek, a very, very solid trek. You know, there are some really great moments in this that really make me laugh, that um teeter me back and forth between the Mary. But yeah, it's a solid trek for me. A Starfleet drill instructor is going to be testing the crew. These pods are programmed with individual drills. Mirror universe, this is easy. Long live the Empire. Wait, our Mariner is right handed. Ah, no.
00:51:52
Speaker
I, Excritus is the eighth episode of Lower Deck Second Season. It premiered on Paramount Plus September 30th, 2021, written by Ann Kim, directed by Kim Ornt. Memory Alpha describes it. A consultant arrives on the USS Cerritos to run drills that require the lower deckers and bridge crew to swap duties. If I may correct you, Memory Alpha, but she is not a consultant. She's referred to as a drill instructor. who Anyway, what Memory Alpha does not mention is that the consultant slash joe can drill instructor is out to get our crew and so sets it up so that the Cerritos fails the test. This is to enrich the program that star of hers that she's developed for start
00:52:31
Speaker
fleet that's not working out as she intended right and so she needs a scapegoat basically to keep her in good graces and keep her program running and she so notices that the Cerritos at the beginning of the episode well they left four lower deckers right. I want like this opening maybe not my favorite but this episode pretty great.
00:52:52
Speaker
So all the crew has put into these little mini holodeck chambers and they have to go through a bunch of similar simulations, which are basically just like putting them in other episodes of Star Trek. Yeah. But I'm going to tell you, Katie, this was my favorite episode of Lower Decks for a very long time. Does that tip my hand of the grade? I don't know. I know. You know, not a fan of Lower Decks. So I went away from it. And when I came back to it, this was like the other episode that caught my attention because I'm like, if I accept that Lower Decks is just Family Guy for Star Trek. They're just gonna do Family Guy references. Then what could they possibly do? And at the core of this episode is Bradward Boimler being competent, he did the homework, yep he did the lessons. It nails the whole episode down. You're actually rooting for everything going on. somewhere i like There's so many times that I feel so Boimler-esque where I'm just like, God damn it. But I have to ask before you totally get in the grades, yeah have you ever had a villain in your life or someone commit themselves to ruining you?
00:53:57
Speaker
Yes, Dan, I'm an actor. I'm a female actor, no less. She is. You get cutthroat. Yeah, no, absolutely. There's been people that, I mean, whether that's my perception of the the history of it or or reality of it, I don't know. um That's what therapy is for. But I've definitely had things where, you know, other actors were trying to undercut me, you know, put me in a terrible light. um Basically, this is something that I like to call the white man's game, ah where it's you're setting people up for failure because you have an ulterior motive. so So yeah, yeah, no, I feel like I've seen this in several different capacities. What about yourself?
00:54:44
Speaker
Oh, for sure. Does family count? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It's kind of the worst sometimes when that happens. It's a bummer. It's a real bummer when that happens. Yeah. It's a very, very big bummer when you're set up for failure. There's like soft ways of saying it. They're trying to dim your light. But it's basically who said they're trying to undercut you to make some sort of gain. Yeah. What does family have to gain from it? No idea. Well, they're afraid that you won't love them. And so they're trying to bring you back into the nest to make sure you don't stray too far or that your your attention is not diverted too far elsewhere and then in terms of industry stuff sure I never really got into the level of like
00:55:26
Speaker
I don't know, I'm outspoken enough when I'm making things of being like, I thought we were all here to do this thing together. And so that can kind of sometimes, and I'm not acting, so it's different. So I can kind of push the sea apart. Like you'll have people immediately falling in line behind, oh yeah, we're all here to do this. So who gives a shit about that? But then there have definitely been times where once you've made something, some people have their own thoughts on who gets more credit and what should happen.
00:55:52
Speaker
It becomes its own problem and it's very easy to sabotage in those cases, but it's a bummer. This is not quite that episode, but it's something that reminds me of that because Lennon Parham is the voice actor for the actor, for the character Shari Yan Yem, which is based on um a very specific alien. Pandalorian, yeah. Which I don't think we saw in the animated series, in a sense. And they so they separate into three parts, so they and they call each one this one, that one, this you know it yeah whatever. But you know she's kind of very good at voicing someone who seems like, do you have a problem with me?
00:56:31
Speaker
Yeah, right. Right. Yeah. And it's really just more like she sees the Cerritos in the California class, this character as being the runs of the litter, basically, some of the wiggling they can pick on. um So I just thought it was kind of great to bring in to talk about Lennon Parn for a second. I don't know her.
00:56:48
Speaker
Oh, she's great. She's a she's a comedian. She's also saying I know her personally. Yes. Of course, of course. It's kind of like that Jeffrey Combs situation where this might sound like some sort of condemnation, but like, no, she's really good at playing a very specific type of character in deep. She plays kind of like an she plays like an airhead with some sort of tinge of vindictiveness behind it. Oh, yeah. And it's just great because You have a voice that conveys so much, like that it makes it easier if you're writing a character in mind or whatever, or sometimes they can even just bring something new to the character that adds a little twist to it. ah You know, Jeffrey Combs, pretty straightforward, play an evil computer with a delicious, slick, slimy voice. Lennon Parham, like, can you be a nice person who lulls you into a false sense of like, we're all in this together, only to be like, I'm only in it for myself? She was very good at that voice and character.
00:57:42
Speaker
used to play a character on comedy bang bang called Miss Lissler who was the PE teacher to Jessica St. Clair um for I can't remember what her character's name was but um it was very similar to this where she basically says that she be a baroque is people into ah into situations.
00:58:03
Speaker
That is a tough reference for a certain age of a listening audience. EA Bronch was played by Mr. T in the ten team. yeah It's a little bit of a long poll, even for my generation, but yeah i hilarious, hilarious stuff. um if you If you get the chance, look up one in Parham and Jessica St. Clair on Comedy biging Bang Bang. Tell people what Comedy Bang Bang is.
00:58:26
Speaker
Comedy Bang Bang is a hysterical um joke podcast where they interview interesting people. It's hosted by Scott Ackerman and they come on as characters or they come on as their a their actor self and then they later play a character or something like that. And basically they run an interview very similar to you how you would with like a Graham Norton or something.
00:58:49
Speaker
But it's with these ridiculous characters, like one of my all-time favorites is a guy who slowly starts to figure out that he has a medallion around his neck that has turned him into a duck. um it's It's just if the longest slow joke you've ever heard because he just slowly starts to realize he's a duck. The only way I can really explain to like the normies out there who don't listen to alternative comedy podcasts Think of a morning zoo radio show without the cuts to the traffic and commercials. and That's kind of what they're doing is like really long extended bits through an episode and then it develops a lore and it keeps adding revisiting and all that stuff. that
00:59:36
Speaker
It's the best way I can describe it. Yeah. Yeah. If you just jump in and you don't read anything about it, though, you will be wildly disoriented. Oh, no, 100 percent. i My favorite was trying to explain this podcast to my parents after like coming home for like a holiday or something. And it was when Paula Thompkins played. um Oh, the the the the songwriter for Phantom of the Opera, um Andrew Lloyd Webber, Andrew Lloyd Webber. And I was I was talking about how this person was playing Andrew Lloyd Webber and they were like, oh, so Andrew Lloyd Webber was on this podcast. I was like, no, he no no, he's kind of he's not doing an impression. It's just a character. It's not nowhere near the real person. Like none of these characters are realistic.
01:00:22
Speaker
sometimes very hard to explain to my parents comedy basically like what if Andy Kaufman had more like structural yeah integrity like yeah you could the pillars the support the foundation was a little more culturally you knew what they were talking about but it's the same kind of out there avant-garde esque yeah kind of exploration of comedy yeah um but it really kind of just is morning zoo wacky bits extended out yeah if you can if you get if you If you're if they're her in the mood for that, I will say it's quite enjoyable, and I'm realizing I haven't listened to an episode in a minute, and I got to get back into it. So I, Excredis, also reveals the names of several background characters we've seen through the run of the show, including Arjun, Castro, Dehae, Merp, Pondara, Ross, and Wallace. The Andorian, who was initially known simply as Jennifer, or Jen, yeah was identified fully as Jennifer Sherean.
01:01:20
Speaker
Several scenarios for the Lower Decks crew mirrored episodes from the original series in the next generation, including Mirror Mirror, ah the Hegbot in Ethics when Worf wants to die because his spine's been broken. The fake building facades of Spectre of the Gun, that's the Wild West scenario. Spock's sacrifice in Star Trek II, that's the engineering problem Rutherford tries to solve with his shoes, his boots. Spock's rescue in Star Trek III, that's when they can't even get out of space dock. They crashed the ship. because they start arguing. yeahp And then we've got the naked time slash the naked now. And that is the moment that a lot of people were were sent screaming.
01:01:58
Speaker
online for seeing Boimler's blacked out butthole. Yep. Oh my gosh. That's like spread eagle and like pulling his legs up in the air, like full on birthing style. Now they, Mike McMahon and company, I don't, I haven't didn't go and find interviews, but you don't need to have an interview to know what was going on here.
01:02:19
Speaker
They wanted to do their own thing and they're like, we are using the parameters of the holodeck to do something that you would never see in Star Trek. But why wouldn't you see it in the holodeck? And to that I say, you're right.
01:02:34
Speaker
like that's correct yeah do you don't have to like it while watching it but it's like no one if like we're okay with the joke of there's a jizz filter in there um I think we have to be okay with and we've seen a hollow pursuits where Barclays using images of the of the crew to do whatever he wants that this is a an extension, however uncomfortable and deeply unsettling as it is of all of those ideas. And it does get resolved with Mariner deciding I'm going to airlock myself rather than deal with the said scenario. And then all the bodies go out with her. Understandably. Yes. Yes. I mean, I get it. People are like, this is just for shock value and this isn't that I'm like,
01:03:19
Speaker
Yeah, that's what the show's been doing. but I mean, what's kind of cool is that a lot of the shows, the exploration is for the science, it's for the the world. I feel like a lot of the exploration within Lower Decks is more an exploration of humanity and like what is so ridiculous. and what can be used for technology that a lot of people will want to use. That is the nicest way of saying what if 21st century dudes had access to Star Trek technology. 100% that. That's what it is. 100% that. Thank you for translating that. It's like, bro, bro, what if we had holidays? Could you imagine? Like, come on. That's exactly what would happen. if I think people expect more from Star Trek and so to make it effectively The Simpsons or Family Guy or Rick and Morty that is the problem and I agree I don't think that was the reason why I thought this was my favorite episode for so long though Like I didn't actually like that part. I did go like oh I because I saw it after the whole through Yeah, I didn't know that this was the episode that that was in I was like, oh I see. Yeah, got it I can see how that would upset people
01:04:28
Speaker
Sure, sure. But also, it's, it's a moment, you know, like, it's a fully earned moment. Yeah, textually, it is like this all tracks, especially what we know what the story is all about. It actually attracts very well. And anyway, a hologram of another crossover character, the board queen appears in this episode, performed by Alice Krieger, the actual original performer.
01:04:56
Speaker
Yeah, this is what I love about this show is that they bring the actual people back for the voices. Because all they have to do is call and they can just call on their lines and record it in their own home. Yeah, totally. ah But, you know, all they're really doing is just copying data's capture scene in first contact, you know, whatever. But it was nice to see how the screen gets back.
01:05:16
Speaker
ah The holographic Andy Billups in Mariner's Naked Time Scenario, albeit nude and sitting on a table, is the only character not doing anything remotely sexual merely reading from a pad. This is in line with the real Billups having to maintain his virginity in order to stay in Starfleet as explored in Where Pleasant Fountains Lie. We'll point out that when Mariner goes to the mirror universe, though,
01:05:38
Speaker
He is having sex. That's how evil he is. I love that that's just his first line straight out of the mirror universe. He's just like, I love torturing people so much. It makes me so horny. I'm horny all the time. So we torture all the time. Yeah, to really eat up your whole day. Yeah. Yeah.
01:05:57
Speaker
All right, let's get into the grades. Great moments. I love that Lennon Parham is in this. ah This feels like yet another episode of bringing back some really solid actors. I was so happy when I heard her voice. um mariner not be not um I love Mariner not doing her normal thing. like This episode starts, I think ah I mentioned it before, not my favorite cold open where they get stranded and Mariner's like they forgot about us and then she's kind of stuck in this whole ugh they forgot about us and I was like okay great so Mariner's gonna be obstinate this entire episode and trying to prove everybody wrong and then when she gets into the holodeck for all of her drills she can't do her thing where she can work around the parameters and be like I kind of liked that because you really have a
01:06:48
Speaker
literally putting up a wall for Mariner and saying that like, you can't go there. This is like not a part of the mission parameters. And so everything that she was doing was working against her usual thing of going against the grain. And instead, she kind of fully invests in sort of this teamwork.
01:07:08
Speaker
side. Right. I mean, there's a version of it where it's like because she didn't get her way when she realized like, oh, someone's trying to screw with us. Then she kind of was like, I know how to deal with this. um It was it was nice. I i liked it. ah That's a great point. I this is what I wrote for the opening moment where they get stranded. The four are four main characters. I hate this cold open, but I love how you said it, too.
01:07:35
Speaker
But it's a great cold open for this episode. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. It's one of the ones that finally connects. We don't always have a cold open that actually connects to the main story. Which is fine. It's not even really a cold open. I mean, it's cold because they were cold.
01:07:51
Speaker
But but it it has to do with the actual plot which kind of reminds me of when Bob's Burgers opens up and like every beginning of ah Bob's Burgers episode you get to see a brand new shop that's next to their burger store and then a brand new some kind of vermin exterminator um and it's all punny funny names and when you see the name next to Bob's burgers as something not very punny and something else it's like oh well that's a bummer that's not really a good pun it ends up being a part of the episode in some kind of capacity and so I was like oh okay so it's not very fun because it's part of the overall story yeah no it's a I think it's great it's like
01:08:37
Speaker
Yeah, they should be heavily scrutinized for that happening. And there is a non-zero chance of something like that happening, not in the way that it happens. But this is a cartoon. yeah And it's a sitcom. And you have to kind of smash nuance like a bug. And ah and so I'm putting as a great moment because, well, as something as like staggeringly un-Star Trek as it is, if you if you told me I could only kill one of the moments, the butthole, or the stranded, I would kill the butthole. um yeah I'm so exactly the opposite, but i get i got it mean it's it's plot driven. It makes a lot of sense that Starfleet would then send someone to come and clean up the best here. yeah And it's not like Freeman's been a great captain the whole run of the show. so like
01:09:27
Speaker
It all kind of fits. It just seemed like the show was maybe, this felt like a cold open that belonged earlier in the season, you know what I mean? like Because they had actually done a pretty good job of being like, okay, Ransom's a pretty good first officer, Freeman has good moments of being a captain. He's learning, she's getting better. Yes, they had kind of tamped down on like, they're all kind of screw ups in some way. And then this is like a pretty big wonder. That's so funny. And they felt bad about it, but they were like, it's okay, it's okay. It's okay, you're fine, you're fine. ah Well, and, you know, obviously the plot itself helps direct everyone to being like, okay, you're right. yeah Everybody is kind of working under some really tough conditions. So let's try and make this easier for everybody. The inverse is
01:10:11
Speaker
her shari and yams whole plan is like i've been running this test through everywhere and everyone's been acing it so starveley's like we don't need you and i don't i needed to pick someone that was gonna actually make my point and then i was gonna goose the i was gonna make the test impossible so that you losers would have no shot you had a slim chance if you flip if you got rid of that which i think actually hurts This helps and hurts. It's weird. But if you flipped it and it's like, you're the first crew I tried this out. It would kind of set the whole show back. Yeah. Oh, these are the bad news bears or they're just losers or whatever. And like, why am I caring about these people at all? um And I think them bonding at the end makes a lot of sense. Like it's all earned why Mariner would even work with their mother at all and why Freeman would be interested. Like you had to earn it in there. So
01:11:01
Speaker
and why they're stuck in lower decks, you know, like why they're still stuck in that rank as incense after so many years. And I think this is the first turning point where we start to see them like taking control, taking like sort of that command as Boimler does. Another great moment that I love is just Boimler going through the Borg mission over and over and over again. So good. It's so good. It's my favorite part.
01:11:27
Speaker
Yep, I said everything with Boimler in the Borg encounter before he's ordered to stay in there because then it just turns into like pretty obvious stuff. But like it's so because you would think oh it's the Borg it's so intimidating and and he's like I read everything there is to know about the Borg and he knows he's in the holodeck and it's just like he knows what he has to do he knows that the Borg wouldn't consider him a threat until whatever and it's just like it was kind of and they're all slow moving Yeah, yeah no and so he's just like flipping and doing his like Titan type like wet work moves and whatnot. I totally am with you. It was like I didn't think I would like it, but again, putting them in the holodeck.
01:12:06
Speaker
freeze your mind like a little bit. It's like this all makes sense. It's supposed to be a test. Yeah. So how is he going to handle it? Well, first of all, he's not intimidated by the fact that it's the Borg. He knows he's on the holodeck. So now what? And then they find the wrinkle. He's not satisfied with the score. I mean, and honestly, if I had just defeated the Borg in a simulation and I got a 76% I would probably do the same thing. It was 79. And then he goes back and he saves the babies and it's 84. Like that was only 5%. 5% points. And then it was just like, and then he like takes hostage two Borgs and then it's like 85%. It's worth the reason to watch this episode yeah is all that stuff.
01:12:48
Speaker
I did like the beat though where Mariner is playing the mirror mirror version yeah and mirror shacks, hollow mirror shacks is ah immediately suspicious of her and she goes, I double dog dare with you and she hits him immediately and then he's satisfied that that's the real mirror universe. Does it just hit him
Shax's Comedic Role and Empathy in Star Trek
01:13:07
Speaker
immediately? But does the double hand fist Oh, which we keep seeing in this show to just like fighting stance. You always have to do this the the classed hands and then to and he's just like, all right, just checking. Yeah, um yeah i will I will say one of my other great moments is just Shax. Shax, this entire episode, not a main character, not really a plot driven character, but has some of the best lines and moments in this episode. I feel like I've called him a best director before. I'm like, just Shax. Yeah, just Shax. Yeah. Yeah.
01:13:40
Speaker
Just like for our Voyager episodes, a lot of the time, not every time, where we have Neelix as a worst Trek Trove. Sure. Sure. Any other great moments? I think that's all I got. I had one more, and it's because once they real realize are she reveals her plan, Sherry's yin-yin reveals her plan, then they're like, OK, well, she's just a textbook theory-based person. Let's take her into the field and scare the shit out of her, get her to change our grades, or end this entire experiment, because it's ridiculous.
01:14:09
Speaker
essentially put her through what they all just went through in their own right. Yes, but in real life and of course they're unflappable in the face of real jeopardy that's not like a test designed to screw with them. Yes. And so they fly like towards a black hole and they're freaking out and she's freaking out and then she's like on my mark and then Freeman goes he's excited it holds the be The best part though is when they leave the crystalline entity after she finally gives her mark and then everybody in the cafeteria is just like, okay, we're done with that. They just turn back and go back to work.
01:14:47
Speaker
ah Best Trek Troops? I do love um a sort of undercover boss type thing in terms of like... Oh, good call. That's a great call. Like, I don't know, there there was a TNG Lower Decks episode, you know, there's like a couple of different episodes, like when Picard has to hang out with the kids in the elevator. um You know, there's like a couple of things where it's just like,
01:15:12
Speaker
When you're not doing your normal everyday job or your everyday responsibilities and you experience someone else's, I feel like that's one of the best things about Trek is showing empathy for someone else's plight by putting them in their situation. And that's one of the things I loved about this episode.
01:15:30
Speaker
Uh, there was a Boimler scream, you know, comes during the part I wasn't into. I was still like, it's a Boimler scream. I dare the show to find a worse time to use that, a bad time to use that. Um, I have that as one of my best lines.
01:15:47
Speaker
I think I'm gonna put the best trick trip as the holodeck as a training tool because this is like kind of and not novel at all but I just thought the scenarios I thought it was a good loophole for Brian's law of are you just referencing episodes because you think it's funny or you have no ideas And it's like, I guess it's fine to just do that in this episode. It worked, so that was fine. If you were ever to just do um ah pay homage to episodes and drop your characters in, fine. This seems like one to do that in. Yeah. the So be it. Yeah. I mean, it it has a similar feeling of like a Q episode in a way.
01:16:25
Speaker
away. Sure. Yeah. And we even get a Q reference. We do get a Q reference later
Criticism of Lower Decks' Approach to Serious Issues
01:16:29
Speaker
on. yeah ah Worst Trek tropes. I just said this for the last episode, but it's a lower next one. Flattening a serious problem into a punchline. In this case, in the medical ethics scenario, the Klingon who wants to die broke his back picking up a peanut.
01:16:45
Speaker
Oh yeah and that's just dumb as shit that's just stupid it's dumb that's like that's a placeholder joke that they didn't have time that they forgot to go back and fix or they're just like we're gonna do so many other jokes who cares but it's it like completely cheapens the episode the concept like it the integrity of the test it's kind of silly and then they add on to that by being like ah Time of life. yeah That's another one of my great lines. He's like super alive now. Which is, again, this is just like comedy. This is like something you would see on a stage and an improv troupe doing. And it's funny, but it completely, you know what I mean? It kind of deters the actual story line. Yeah, no, totally. And ah agree. um It was fun for like a flash of an episode, but also seeing Tendi having to kill someone is always a fun thing.
01:17:38
Speaker
like putting her in a very pirate like something that like her and her people would be like, okay, sure, I'll kill you. Shunk. Like it would have been easy. But who knows? um One of the things that i I did write was for the worst trek tropes was um people just testing them in order to make them fail. It's, as I say, the white man game. Setting you up for failure is never a plot line that I'm really a fan of. Just for your own personal gain. yeah Oh, I had one more that was actually the same one that I had before, cheapening something. So they basically say that there's multiple crystalline entities. Yes. And that they're fornicating a lot of stuff, which again, undermin season that undermines the crystalline entity saga on the next generation. Like this is a unique life form that we didn't know anything about. And then this woman in a fit of rage kills it and they have no chance.
01:18:36
Speaker
And to say that, oh, there's other ones out there, it really cheapens it. It's, it's again, what is the juice worth the squeeze? And for people who just like, I think most Star Trek fans are like this, they just like it for the references and the iconography and the familiarity and fine.
01:18:54
Speaker
but just digging into it a little bit. It's like, if everything's grist for the mill and the mill being like jokes, gags, bits, I just think it just, again, what works for Lower Decks is how it does seem to honor it, but then it does sometimes cross it over in these weird ways. Like for example, I actually think the butthole is less offensive than the crystallinity situation it because the context of the butthole, the context of the butthole is a holodeck.
01:19:22
Speaker
And this is like there this is in universe, they're saying, oh, that thing that was important and special was not important and special. yeah It's a big galaxy. The point there that the crystallinity is supposed to be like in this massive galaxy, this is the only thing like this that exists. And and instead they're saying it's a big enough galaxy that this can exist multiple times.
01:19:44
Speaker
And it's like, no, that's not the point of exploration. When you're discovering something and there's just other copies of it, you are becoming bored with the act of discovery and and the mystery of life. You're just saying like, no, copy paste. And so just bothers me that Lower Decks does that sometimes. And you didn't need it. That's the other part. You didn't need that joke in this moment of when they were just finding weird space anomalies.
01:20:09
Speaker
to like try to scare her up. Sure. There's so many other things you can get involved in. And anyway, that was that's my grape. I didn't realize I would be so heated by it. I no i didn't either, but yay. It's just a most cosplayable character or moment.
01:20:27
Speaker
um I only have Boimblair Borg. ah Oh, I have that too, but i had you gotta get like little dolls, little babies. Yeah, little babies. Strap them up in the baby but or baby ah carrier. Yeah. yeah Perfect. yeah You could also do like Wild West Mariner.
01:20:45
Speaker
You could do Wild West Mariner. You could do Shari and Yam. You could do the horse that's trampling Mariner. Every time she tries to get on it. I didn't laugh at her, but I appreciated the running gag of Freeman being like, you don't you know how to ride a horse. You failed riding a horse. It's like, no, the horses like me. And I kind of I mean, I appreciated that. That was a good one. Yeah, yeah. Honestly, it felt like Freeman was finally doing what Mariner always
Humor and Character Dynamics in Lower Decks
01:21:12
Speaker
does. It's just like,
01:21:13
Speaker
Oh, yeah. the the ah You know, the trials were totally public. I could rewatch any of your stuff. um And I was like, yeah, that's 100 percent something Mariner would do to her. So just as Billups, if you're really a ballsy cosplayer or a really gutsy one, you could do Billups in the towel or you could do a black car, blacked out boyleys backda butho yep yeah i That would be the most amazing if you if you're like a yoga person, um and maybe you're super fit, and you just have like a black bar band or something like that, and then you just kind of lift your legs up. I mean, the my very first college ah
01:21:58
Speaker
event that I went to, like a big party or whatever. The first thing I saw oh no were women just wearing saran wrap. That was all they were wearing. So I firmly believe there are cosplayers out there. Someone will take it upon themselves to do it like a black bar diaper.
01:22:17
Speaker
yeah And, you know, show the hips though, find a a thing. thing it so You can even just do like a skin tone underwear cover, like some shorts or something like that, and then paint a black bar over where the butthole is.
01:22:29
Speaker
yeah
01:22:31
Speaker
Now it's time for the line must be drawn here. Create um I feel like a couple of these have been mentioned, but um ah Mariners Mirror Universe, who dareth run into me? ah I dareth run into you, two-handed punch. Okay, just checking, doo-doo-doo, just like walks off.
01:22:50
Speaker
um I loved Hollow Mirror Universe's Boimler. When she finds she comes upon him and he's scheming, just walking back and forth, the recording goes, I need to figure out a way to impress or kill the captain so I can get on a more sinister ship. yep and It's just such a cartoon line, but I love Jack Quaid's little, or kill. Impress or kill. It's such a boyly life. um i Shax, it's naked time. Oh God.
01:23:25
Speaker
He just put checks. Every line check says in this episode is just crushing it. Yep. And then she has that ah Homer Ned Flanders. It feels like I'm wearing nothing at all. Yeah. Nothing at all when she sees him in real life later on. Yeah. Or when he's ah when he's stretching because he can't get over the the tight bunks or whatever. And she's like, no, stop it. Stop it right now. We said it before, but damn it. Call it time of life. Oh, nine hundred.
01:23:59
Speaker
It's so stupid, but I love that for it. um Captain, do you want cream with your coffee or dang, that's got to be a record. Yeah, actually it is. That's after they've crashed the ship in space dock, Ransom, playing as a lower decker, has been asked to go get coffee for Captain Mariner. yeah And then, yeah, when it comes back, they've already crashed.
01:24:22
Speaker
um You're only torturing that poor Ensign. Oh, please. He's one of our best. He is? I love that. Even still, Meritor is like, I don't know about this. But at the same time, Bormler is crushing it right now and he is their best Ensign. He's the only reason if you are only listening to us. He's the only reason why they haven't failed. And then the results submitted to Starfleet because he's been running the simulation to try to get as high a score as possible, which is another reason why I love the episode. I'm like, that is kind of a cool way to take the high achiever idea and like, that's going to save the ship. Yep. yeah This striver. Yep. Do you have any others? Because all three of mine are boomer lines.
01:25:06
Speaker
Okay, I've got one last one and it's Tendi saying, we got pesto! That was a funny line. I did not like that they have like a caste system for the replicators. I know that was kind of odd to me as well, but it it it also kind of makes sense within their structure of the Cerritos that there is a class system within like something because I mean, if I was the czar of Star Trek, if I became the leader of Star Trek my on day when I would be like, that is a Cerritos problem. No other ship did that. you're You're not wrong. You're not wrong. But it doesn't make any sense to me if someone can't go home and get a in someone we can't get off their ship to need a cheesecake. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's so stupid. Like if you're in a post-scarcity, scarcity society and all you want is people to do their best, then why would you suddenly have these weird restrictions on
01:26:02
Speaker
sustenance or whatever. Like, it's so weird. It's very strange. I don't know. I really don't. um Oh, and then forgive me one more line is the very last two lines of the episode, where Shaq says, sounds like the board left you with one thing, you're appetite. And Boimler says, Oh, they took everything that I was.
01:26:24
Speaker
So that was funny. I actually also really appreciated that. like Well, again, because Shaxx is a best trick show. yeah but yeah That is a hack ass commenting line. Perfect for this episode. This episode is like basically fucking mama's family. like It is not a serious episode of television. It is a sitcom through and through. I mean, you essentially put Bormler through Picard's hold for me as a board. Yes, that's right. It's And Boimly's always the heel of the joke in terms of this kind of stuff. It is great. But it's like, oh, but he was so good.
01:26:59
Speaker
So Boimler, my three lines, when he gets the call from Freeman, that she orders him to keep doing the test. And he goes, Cap'n! I love first things. He says Cap'n. He goes, Cap'n, but I beat the board queen in chess and I taught her empathy. He teaches her empathy. Oh, God. And then when he's being dragged away, because he has to let himself be captured, he's like, no, no, no, no, no, my score. Yes. They totally understood him.
01:27:26
Speaker
Yeah, and then there is no point where I am excretus of Borg. He's just Borg shit. That's the big guy. I hear him shuffling around in there. Yep. Now it's time for the line must be drawn here. Great art.
01:27:40
Speaker
Um, the Naked Cafeteria. I think it's hysterical. How dare you? dare you miss Hampton? I just wrote Naked Cafeteria. I thought it was hysterical. I thought it was so funny. It was a little sexy for a second. And then they just went full cartoon, aggressive sexuality with it, which is like why the episode before was so well done and the sort of, ah you know, It was hard to find. Yeah, even with all the recreations, they were kind of like slavish devotions to the recreating the look of everything. So like even in the Rutherford scenario where he's wearing, you know, they're wearing Star Trek II costumes and it's the same engine room as the Enterprise, like whatever. OK, like so there's nothing that really like that's amazing. It's just like that's a faithful recreation of whatever. ah Yours is good. May I offer
01:28:34
Speaker
that if we're just doing references, it was actually kind of beautiful how when they were approaching the black hole, they did the wormhole effect from Star Trek, the motion picture, right? They kind of yeah the warping effect that they had. It was like the same angles and lighting effects. They were just copying Star Trek, the motion picture. A movie, I think, as much as Star Trek 2 is the best Star Trek movie.
01:28:57
Speaker
the best movie, the best film, like filmically done in the language of Sinima is Star Trek the motion picture. um And so I think any homage to that. And I actually really liked the solve for this episode. I didn't maybe the setup was so clunky because it had to be. But I really like this vindictive little asshole is going to get them all reassigned. And if not for Boimler,
01:29:26
Speaker
yeah know They a tiny chance if they can just figure out, get their shit together, and work together for five minutes. Well, they finally have a common enemy. A yeah common enemy they have to all take care of. That's what it is. That is what ah um what corporate team building should be, but never is.
01:29:45
Speaker
So scaring the shit out of her is a really good idea. I thought it was great. No. and And along those lines, ah one of the other um great arts that I was I think I mentioned before, but escaping the crystalline entity um and everyone not caring. Just like seeing them like shrug it off and just seeing this beautiful but terrifying thing in the background. Right. And you didn't need the crystalline entity. You just need the same idea of like, oh, life goes on. yeah goes That was interesting. Yeah. That's and that's true. That's absolutely the case. So all right. ah Would this have been a fun hall and all the play out? Yes. I said yes for the drills, but ah for the for Lennon Parham's character. Maybe not. No, no, no, yeah, for sure, for sure. but But taking the piss out of a character like yeah that, way yeah that would be fun. That would be great. Absolutely. What part of this will you teach at Starfleet Academy? How corporate team building is always a great time and a financial expense expense, but ultimately a distraction from work. I mean, this episode is a pretty good example of like, there's a lot they need to maybe go relearn some one-on-ones. Yeah.
01:30:52
Speaker
It's a good touchstone episode. It's kind of like a reset. Like Ransom actually, whose fault is it that they were left out there? It was Ransom's fault. Yeah, because you said that it so yeah he he said didn't check out their spacewalk gear or whatever. It's like, but he knew that there was a mission. They weren't like doing something unauthorized. No, they weren't. sanctioned You could have done the episode that way too, but that's not, you lose the joke. You lose the actual joke that is in a vacuum. yeah They left us. Like that is actually very funny. If it was for any other frame. for your ja yeah ah So Trek, marry or kill I excretis.
01:31:36
Speaker
I am honestly, I'm going to marry this episode because it may be. How dare you? i can i yeah I loved it. I thought it's hysterical. i Like it it solidifies the teamwork element of it. They kind of twist some um what usually is behavioral stuff with certain people into something a little bit more fun and a little bit more of a challenge. So I freaking love this episode. I'm a definite marry on this one.
01:32:03
Speaker
So when I said it was my favorite episode up until rewatching some other ones, you were like, yeah, that makes sense. This is an amazing episode. My rewatch knocked it down to basically where Pleasant Fountains lie, which is like, this is pretty close to a track. And I think it's a Mary of if we were just doing a Lower Decks podcast, I'm like, this is probably this is definitely one of the best.
Balancing Humor with Star Trek Themes
01:32:24
Speaker
But i'm I'm trying to like stack it against the rest of the series. And like I do, I'm disregarding the criticisms of the butthole.
01:32:32
Speaker
I was wondering, I was wondering if it is the butthole knocks it down. The butthole is not the reason. I think the reason is crystalline entity the the crystalline and you know what that's crystalline entity is B. A is the setup. You had to do the setup this way. i couldn't a imagine I'm not trying to say they did a bad thing. I said, I hate this, but this is the way that this episode happens. yeah And so can I balance the two and then say that it's a Mary? I think I'm just going to disagree and leave it up to the um audience so to vote, to break the tie.
01:33:08
Speaker
i think it's very close but i'm like there is like some some things that are so strongly like that's you are undermining Star Trek to get where you want to go. And I think the holodeck joke actually is like, you could take that to court and you could justify it. I think the crystalline entity is like a hat on a hat. The Klingon bit is like savage undermining. It's funny. We agree. It's funny. I'm just like, well, this is Star Trek show. And you're just making light of a very serious episode of like assisted suicide and all that stuff. Oh, I've picked up a peanut.
01:33:44
Speaker
I guess I better die. How else are you going to make assisted suicide funny if not putting a character who's coming from a culture known to kill and pirate? You don't start with- It has a moral compass. I broke my back picking up a peanut. Of course, of course. And I agree that I do think- flattening a serious problem in order to be the butt of a joke. I do agree that Lower Decks does do that. I feel like they sometimes have to, because if they got into like the super, it's like it's hard to pull back and make a joke. it's maybe they had you know what Maybe the network was like, this is too dark and you need to lighten it up. and it's like
01:34:22
Speaker
but Then I think you change it like I'm just saying like you are when you take the piss out of Star Trek itself That's what I'm like. Well, then you're not doing a great episode start doing something very funny. That's at Star Trek's expense So that's where I'm like I can go along with the opening for setting up this episode Does that make it a strong episode of Star Trek because at the end of the day?
01:34:45
Speaker
the thread line gets dropped of like what caused that breakdown in communication. That's not what you you're right. They do rally together and work together. But that wasn't what was that issue of them being left behind was not like them not getting along. It was just like their fuck ups.
01:35:04
Speaker
That was but yeah, that's why she targeted them. But yeah, no, 100 percent. And I think this is also one of the episodes that kind of resets everything and says, OK, we have been fuckups. We're going to acknowledge that within each other and each other's job is hard. But as long as we work together with a common goal and the heart of it all is obviously Boimler. Yeah, I mean, so like that's why it's like almost that alone makes us a Mary.
01:35:32
Speaker
yeah like just the more but but Like just as we're talking, I'm um um like, well, you could have had that Freeman would have been so embarrassed that she she's the one that brought the drill instructor in. Suddenly it automatically changes the tone of the episode. yeah And then once they see that this person's not going to give them a fair chance, then then the story still unfolds as it is. So it's just such just these little tweaks. I'm like, did they did they nail it?
01:35:58
Speaker
I will say, again, they did encapsulate everything that Lower Decks can do that the other shows can't do because of the animation.
Speculation on TNG and Upcoming Star Trek Updates
01:36:07
Speaker
And I also have to say that this scenario of the instructor coming on, they're doing all these holo tests. Could you imagine if they had done that in TNG? This would have been a fun one to do yeah in the other shows.
01:36:19
Speaker
Absolutely. It would be a really fun, hollow novel type of episode, but like having separate storylines in each. Yeah. Absolutely. Captain Jean-Luc Picard is having to like play as a lower decker. Yeah. but like What's the explanation for that? Like, how would he even... Riker is like, I can't believe you're doing this, Captain. And then Picard could be like, well,
01:36:40
Speaker
Number one. I've done it before. yeah Yeah, it's like it's been a long time since I've slept in a bunk. You know what I mean? Like you could have maybe done that, but they don't have the time for that. But anyway, leave it to vote. You guys all get to listen as you get to decide if this is a trek or a marry. If you want to listen to more of Katie's thoughts about life and love and working or napping, where can they listen?
01:37:03
Speaker
you can always find me at the Napping Through Happy Hour podcast. We talk real life, real drama in real time. We did not talk about the election ah yet, but you know we might at some point in life. um um Apart from that, you can always find me on the social media at LsassyPants, E-L-S-A-S-S-Y-P-A-N-T-S. Sometimes with a Z. I almost started spelling my maiden name and I was like, oh which is where that name nickname comes from. um But yes, you could always also check me out every other first and third Wednesday of the month at the Pack Theater with my house team faux pas where we take your embarrassing stories and we make them worse.
01:37:49
Speaker
We're TrekmarryKPod on social media, trekmarrykillpod.com on the web. ah Stay tuned this month, we're going to be covering Star Trek Voyager episodes from the first season in celebration of its 30th anniversary. The debut was 30 years ago, Katie. Wow. That's, yeah, that's pretty wacky. ah Continuing on with me from our Star Trek Discovery run for season five of Discovery is Charisse, the sci-fi savage. So she'll be on this month. And actually later this month, we will be doing a surprise episode, judging, grading the section 31 movie. Ooh. That's going to be dropping. More to follow on that. So thanks for listening. Until next time, TMK out. Bye.
01:38:46
Speaker
All right, do you need a break? Or should we just launch right into the next one? Let me just take the slank it off because it's getting very warm. You're super heating talking about Philip's virginity. I am. but but