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Episode 18: Tilting like Windmills with Erin Campbell, Part II
104 Plays6 years ago
Hello, Podwalkers, and welcome to the Goblin Lore Podcast!
In our eighteenth episode, Erin Campbell (@OriginalOestrus on Twitter) of the Magic Mics Cast joins the guys to answer questions about emotions and group dynamics in Magic: the Gathering, how to help your playgroup avoid "tilt" or "salt", and how emotions are not only not a weakness – they are a strategic and social strength that need to be embraced.
This is Part II of a two-part series with Erin that was begun last week, September 28th.
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Remember: we've reached 300 followers on Twitter, so we'll do our next giveaway soon! Keep the word of mouth going; another is up at 400!
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You can find the hosts on Twitter: Joe Redemann at @Fyndhorn, Hobbes Q. at @HobbesQ, and Alex Newman at @AlexanderNewm. Send questions, comments, thoughts, hopes, and dreams to @GoblinLorePod on Twitter or GoblinLorePodcast@gmail.com.
Goblin Lore is proud to be a member of the Geek Therapy Network (on Twitter at @GeekTherapy).
Opening and closing music by Wintergatan (@wintergatan). Logo art courtesy of Greg Staples, design by Joe Redemann.
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Transcript
MTG Project Ideas
00:00:00
Speaker
We are going to now switch over to Gears. So I had asked for a lot of mailbag questions here, basically. Is this the Loveline portion? Is that what that is? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a burn player. He plays, he plays boggles. How do we make it work? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Introduction to Emotional Tilt Discussion
00:00:20
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Goblin Lore. This episode is the second of a two-part series where we discuss tilt and emotions in Magic the Gathering with Erin Campbell of Magic Mikes. For this episode, we solicited questions from our Twitter followers to ask Erin and discuss these concepts with her as they related to playing magic, being involved in magic communities, in groups, and then how we can take these lessons that we learn into our own emotional processing.
00:00:49
Speaker
Erin has been an absolute delight to talk to and she spent about three hours with us that day even sitting through some of our technical difficulties of recording and was an absolute treasure. So without any further ado, let's get to the show.
Mailbag: Emotions & Tilt in MTG
00:01:11
Speaker
wouldn't that be fabulous, by the way, if there was like a magic love line of like, I always, so I was fantasized. I'm always thinking about what my next project is going to be. And I'm always thinking it's like for, for a while there, before I started magic, my experience, before I started with them, I was like, I should do a series called like sex in the MTG, where it'd be like, you know, can a mid range girl and a control guy ever make it work and just have like, you know, this, like the single apartment and like the magic cards in my oven, like Carrie Bradshaw, and it would be fantastic. And just
00:01:37
Speaker
So no, I actually submitted mailbag questions of what people might want us to hear about because with this topic, I knew there was going to be a lot of interest in terms of kind of what you were saying,
Reading the Room and Deck Selection
00:01:48
Speaker
Aaron. And that's why I wanted to split this episode into two in some ways is we've identified now all of this to do with expression of emotion, how it's not working, how there might be differences between men and women and expectations of emotion.
00:02:04
Speaker
It obviously always leads, and I feel like a lot of our discussions, not on here, but in general in life, lead to, we can identify the problem. And then there's always the question, well, now what? So I thought by soliciting some mailbag questions and me bringing in some of the stuff that I can kind of talk about in terms of expressing emotions and maybe ways that it could be done to help with either tilt. So our first submission comes from at Kyle C. Carson. That's cowboy Kyle on Twitter.
00:02:33
Speaker
I very rarely get salty, but I could always use more advice on pulling other people at the EDH table out of a salty behavior. So what strategies could Kyle or any of our commander players use to help people in EDH, which is a more casual and can be a more fun and communal format sometimes than one-on-one competitive magic? What's a way to pull somebody out of that salt mode?
00:03:03
Speaker
So this really strikes a chord with me because I avoided Commander for a really long time because I was not able to find groups that I really enjoyed playing with. And so I think it ultimately kind of comes up to reading the room where I really started enjoying Commander when I started playing with like-minded groups. And so I have a really great local group that I play with every couple of weeks or so. And I know how we play. I know how we like to play. I know that how we build decks. And so
00:03:29
Speaker
that impacts the decks that I bring with me when I go see them and also it impacts the decks that I build and so if I'm if I find that I'm joining a new group I like to ask a couple of questions and I bring a nice range of decks with me I have about five or six decks and so I kind of get a feel for like okay are we being really spiky today have you guys spent a lot of money on your decks and then that allows me to kind of choose a deck to fit the group and so
00:03:51
Speaker
I hate to necessarily turn it back to Kyle because I know that he mentioned how to pull others out of it.
Managing Saltiness in EDH
00:03:56
Speaker
But I think just being able to read the room and picking the right deck for the group where, you know, I'm thinking of building a mono white Teshar deck that I know my play group would hate. And so I know that if I'm going to play that deck, I need to not bring that to EDH on Sunday. But if I'm going to a GP and I know that I'm playing with Magrini and some of these folks who are very spiky,
00:04:13
Speaker
I know that deck can probably roll there. So I think just really reading the room, making sure, if possible, that you can bring a nice mix of decks with you if you have the resources to do that. And just making sure that the decks you're playing kind of fall in line with the people. Get a read for what they're doing. See the kind of decks they're playing. See the way they play. And just try to fall in line with that and kind of tailor yourself to their experience.
00:04:36
Speaker
that matches pretty well with my experience. I have a number of different decks. I have a deck that are a little more aggressive. I don't have terribly spiky, but my Kozlick deck is pretty aggressive. Casting Kozlick on turn three or four is pretty good. But I do have a range of decks. That's one thing that I like about our Minneapolis Playgroup, too. We have a lot of people here have what we call 1DH decks, or decks where every card is less than a dollar.
00:05:02
Speaker
So those tend to be a little more casual, but everyone in the group will bring both Commander and 1DH so that we can kind of change the pace of the game depending on who we're playing with. Or even the same group will just say, let's do a 1DH game to break up what we're doing to kind of mix up what's going on. And I think that could help too, in addition to reading the room in people's predilections, there's also sometimes just doing something different with the same group can
Recognizing & Managing Emotional Tilt
00:05:29
Speaker
help with that too.
00:05:29
Speaker
These are the advice I would give to people, you know, to kind of try to ease in and having less salt. I think that like what Kyle's talking about, you know, I also want to address if you get into a game where somebody does have that, you know, maybe even in your own known play group. And there is a difference between if you're playing somebody at a GP, which I've done, I just kind of finished the game out and then I'm just going to politely say that I have to go.
00:05:52
Speaker
you know, and I'm probably not going to and if it's happening in the middle, I might say something or just try to do it. But if it's my own play group, I think is where it becomes a little bit harder because I've seen it, you know, if somebody loses a bunch of games in a row feels like they're being targeted in a game, it can feel uncomfortable.
00:06:09
Speaker
to pull somebody out of salt or tilt itself is very difficult to do because of that concept that we've talked about. You can't control other people or their emotions. You could do things to try to minimize, you know, like I said, it's the person feels are being targeted or teased, you might be able to do something. But when it comes down to it, you can't in that moment when they're in that emotional state, you may not be able to fix it right then.
00:06:34
Speaker
you can give them a channel you can give them you know an alternative you can give them a way to kind of opt out of it and i think that's kind of what we're saying here too is as an option so the next question that we've got here is from at nerdy Slav on twitter that's john paul has and this is
00:06:50
Speaker
There are two competing emotional states that affect my playstyle. When I'm losing or getting bad draws or genuinely not playing well, I get frustrated then I further exacerbate my own mistakes, and then I also start playing much more recklessly. When I'm doing well, however, I often play too safely, so I don't ruin
00:07:07
Speaker
in quotes my win-loss ratio during that particular play session. I guess the question here a little bit is how do you stop that cycle of tilt where when you start to get frustrated you start playing worse and then when you start playing worse you get more frustrated but then also at the same time how do you prevent yourself from withdrawing and into yourself during a game when you're when you're winning when you start playing more safely.
00:07:31
Speaker
So I it's actually a really good question and one I haven't really fully conquered myself. You know, I mentioned earlier in the show, I hate losing more than I like winning. Like if you ever see me celebrate a win, I'm not celebrating because I won. I'm celebrating because I didn't lose. Like that's really what it boils down to. And so I still play to this day. I still play to not lose. I'm not playing to win. I'm playing because I don't want to lose. So that's a really I appreciate John for acknowledging that about themselves and identifying those behaviors.
00:08:01
Speaker
For me, and this is just me personally, I lead into it. Like if I have mulled to five, we're mulled to four. Like, you know, we're making bad choices. Let's make all the bad choices. That's just how I really deal with it. But I think on a serious note, I think it depends on what level you're playing at. So if you're playing just like an F and M where there's not a lot of stakes on the line, really kind of just again, realign those expectations. Be like, you know what? It's F and M.
00:08:24
Speaker
We're playing for PAX, it's fine. Just really allow yourself that it's really not that bad. If you are at an event and what is your goal for the event? Were you looking to top eight? Okay, if you happen to lose this one, can you still top eight? Okay, no. Can you still top 16? Are there still prizes there? Are there prizes that you're interested in? I tried to have a backup plan or I tried to have silver lining for when things go wrong rather than going, oh God, I've lost. I've lost everything. Can I still get something out of this? Am I still playing for a pro point?
00:08:53
Speaker
And can I still get practice out of this for the next event? You know, try to feel like you're still taking something away from the experience other than I've screwed up and I've just lost. Are you having a really sweet dinner with your friends afterwards? You're going to stake after this. Who cares if you go five and four? You know, I try to, that happened to me a couple of weeks ago. I played in a vintage challenge and I went three and three and I was like, you know what? I lost last round, but I still get to see crazy rich Asians. So I'm still winning here. Um, so I try to find just, you know, ways to things to take away from me.
00:09:18
Speaker
from the match other than I've lost or I've made some mistakes and that way the backup plan or the silver lining makes it not feel so bad. I haven't played in a ton of GPs but I played, I used to live close enough to Vegas and I also have made Vegas the every other year kind of plan for Vegas to be my goal and I have had the goal of always wanting to day two a GP and the first two
Vegas Grand Prix Experiences
00:09:38
Speaker
were sealed. I prepared for them a ton and I ended up going six and three at both of them but back when that did not make day two.
00:09:45
Speaker
So it was very difficult for me because like Aaron said, most of my friends had all dropped out earlier, didn't care about the main event. They all went to Vegas and they went out and did stuff. I played till nine, 10 o'clock at night on those first, on those two days and did not get to do anything fun. Really. So my next Vegas, which it helped that it was legacy. I still wanted to make day two, but I went in with a lot.
00:10:15
Speaker
more calm attitude. I was there to have fun. It was my bachelor party on top of it was going to be there. I had planned stuff to do after day one. I had friends to hang out with people to do. I got there a day early and went inside. Is Chuckie cheese open that late? But I what's funny about this is I literally went to Vegas dressed in a shirt that said Hobbs cue and on the back
00:10:40
Speaker
It was a bowling shirt designed for me by Steve Raphael that said storm count. It had a bowling ball with all the artwork from like infernal tutor, dark ritual. I'm literally walking around advertising that I am playing storm in a legacy debut. And I went seven and two and made day two. I went in with a different attitude based on the goal that I have and the fun that I wanted to have.
00:11:03
Speaker
Speaking a little bit to this question of that frustration and what to do. This is where I really wanted to get into kind of talking about the importance of being able to label emotions.
Understanding Emotional Intensity
00:11:13
Speaker
We talked earlier in last cast about the fact that when I teach emotions and then I'm excited and I'm standing in my living room right now like I'm in front of a class of people or something because this is me in my favorite. I love in my job is I love teaching groups where I really get to teach about emotions.
00:11:32
Speaker
I love teaching social skills. I love teaching people how to express their emotions, how to cope with their emotions. But even and I said this last time, identify what their emotions are. So you may have noticed that when I was talking about emotions, I was trying to avoid categories like sad, angry, happy,
00:11:54
Speaker
because they really those reduce emotions down into categories that are actually very rich and make a huge difference. So I do a lot of anger management groups too. And we talk in there about the fact that anger is not a single emotion. Most people think that they experience it is going from zero to 60. They go from I'm doing really well to explosion. And
00:12:19
Speaker
as john was saying here he talked about noticing when he gets frustrated well that's actually a pretty low level of intensity irritation frustration those though means he starts playing recklessly he starts playing bad that frustration now is not just frustration now it's getting to be anger and now it's getting to be pissed off resentment
00:12:42
Speaker
murderous than their anger. Anger has such a variation in it. And he mentions here the frustration if so the importance of being able to label emotions along spectrums. We talk a lot in this cast about spectrums and things existing on not as dichotomies.
00:13:00
Speaker
And emotions are important that way because what I need to do to intervene for myself if I'm feeling rageful is very different than if I'm feeling frustrated. And I think that the first step for what John's question is, is the fact that you're recognizing and learning what your signs are that you're at that emotional level, paying attention to your body, paying attention to the physical things that you're feeling, the thoughts that are going through your head.
00:13:26
Speaker
is going to be your first step to be able to then do I need to take a step away from the table, tell judges if you're at a big event that I need to go to the bathroom, take that break, take a second to just do your deep breathing, which is something that you can do in any environment. It's once you recognize that you're doing that, you have to try to do something to change it. And at the magic table, your options are a little bit more limited. You can't go out and go for like a three mile run in the middle of a match if you're starting to feel really pissed off.
00:13:56
Speaker
you can do things like deep breathing. You can do things like trying to challenge your thinking a little bit. We have notepads that we take scores on writing out what your thought is and looking at it and saying, is this rational? Is it not starting to be able to recognize that is a huge thing.
Handling Opponent Tilt
00:14:10
Speaker
And on the win-loss ratio, when it comes to when you start playing well,
00:14:15
Speaker
I think it's being able to recognize, you know, recognize pride, recognize the fact that you're doing a good job. Let that kind of guide your decisions. You know, if you think that you're playing too safe, you can work on loosening up by trying out a different thing. But I would say that if you're playing well, you're probably doing something well, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.
00:14:35
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. The next question comes from at McGurganator ZX. We'll go with Mac. The question is, I play with a couple people who get really upset at the slightest provocation. And when that happens, the game becomes profoundly unfun. Is there any way I can help them tilt out less often or severely? So I think this is a really good question. And and as I mentioned earlier in the show, a lot of times it has nothing to do with the other person. And so
00:15:03
Speaker
Um, I, being a, a tilter myself, when I'm in a competitive event and somebody tilts on me, I let them feel the feelings. Like I know that it has nothing to do with me. They're probably upset about things they've done, you know, and especially playing the deck that I play. Like I knew when I signed up for dredge, a lot of people didn't like dredge and that people sometimes just hate losing to dredge. And so.
00:15:23
Speaker
I'm certainly not trying to excuse their behavior or apologize for it, but by telling yourself that it really has nothing to do with you, it can really free yourself up from those feelings of, oh God, what have I done? Or, oh God, this feels awful. I let them feel the feelings. I will sign the slip. I say thank you for the games and I let them have their feelings.
00:15:40
Speaker
I really don't know what else to do other than, I mean, I guess it depends on what competitive level you're talking about. When you say you play with a couple people, is this during play testing? Is this during EDH? I think it might depend on what you're playing with them in. But typically, if I'm at a competitive event, I just let them feel the feelings. I know it ain't got nothing to do with me. I sign my slip and I move on. And if that's something you're not able to do, then just, again, getting out of there as quickly as you can. If you're not feeling
00:16:09
Speaker
You know, like you're able to really kind of listen to it again, just get out of there. You're under no obligation to stay and chat with somebody after an event. If you are at a competitive event and it's during play, like the game is an over with, you can call a judge. I got to do something. You'd be like, judge, my opponent's just not dealing with this very well. And that is something that if they do go too far, a judge can.
00:16:27
Speaker
intervene on and possibly even give out some sort of penalties for. So again, it just depends on the setting of where you're playing. Yeah, and I've actually run into opponents like this at FNM occasionally too, which isn't nearly as high level as GP, but it's not nearly as casual as Kitchen Table Commander.
00:16:43
Speaker
And it can be tough sometimes to sit across from somebody, especially I try to be a pretty empathetic person. And I've been in those spots where having played infect right after certain big cards in there were banned, I kept running my head against other people's walls, basically. I just kept running into a wall.
00:17:07
Speaker
I've had those moments, though, where somebody, you know, I'll notice them shuffling their cards back up or, you know, putting everything away. And I'll just say, hey, by the way, your play of such and such was a really smart move. And, you know, or I'll say something like I happened to draw really lucky in that game. I drew I drew really hot or something like that.
00:17:26
Speaker
And I don't know that that's always the right move. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes it is best to just let them have their feelings and let them process it in whatever way that makes sense. But I have found I think that being a gracious winner can also help in that situation. If you say, hey, I really appreciate the way that you played, you played hard, you played well, or whatever it is, you know, that I think can be a nice nod to them as a competitor.
Assertive Communication in Playgroups
00:18:10
Speaker
being able to talk to them, not in the moment, but in between games or in between sessions is being very assertive, as we've talked about before. So we've hit a little bit on this. I wanted to just briefly mention kind of different communication styles. And so there's the passive, the assertive and the aggressive. And we talked a lot about the Midwest stereotype of the passive kind of, I'm just gonna hold it in. I'm just not gonna let other people see my emotions, because that's not right. You don't want them to know.
00:18:13
Speaker
in the same way.
00:18:38
Speaker
And you either develop ulcers or you end up yelling at people or then exploding on them, which is how the Midwest gets that kind of passive aggressive because then you just sarcastic at times because you're never actually dealing with the situation.
00:18:54
Speaker
So the assertive, the aggressive would just be telling them, you know, stop tilting or I'm not going to play with you. I don't have fun when we do that. The key being with aggressive, all you care about is your needs getting met. It doesn't even have to be angry. Then that's why I talked a little bit before we started the show that
00:19:11
Speaker
Passive communication is actually the one most associated with anger because you're trying to stuff all these emotions in and you're internalizing and you're turning them towards yourself, which can lead to either an outward expression of anger or depression or that kind of getting guilt. Well, aggressiveness doesn't have to be angry. It's just caring about your needs and your emotions. So yeah, you may use hostility, but it doesn't have to be angry.
00:19:35
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. So if we can learn a little bit, you know, with friends, it's assertiveness, which is it telling them what their behavior, what you've noticed. And the key thing that I would tell people to do when you're doing this assertiveness is kind of cool because this is the first time when you talk about communication that your goal is actually to use an emotion word in your statements. I actually write out scripts.
00:19:56
Speaker
I felt blank when blank happened. What I would like to see happen in the future is blank. It doesn't have to be that formal, but it can be when you're learning it. The key thing is, you're not using that you language, you've been doing this, you've been causing our games to be this way, blah, blah, blah. It's I've been feeling or I've noticed that and you focus on the person's behavior. It looks like when we're playing commander,
00:20:21
Speaker
that at times, you know, it's just even being honest about like, you know, I noticed that when we played last week, when this happened, it really seemed to bother. So our next question comes to us from two people to similar questions were asked.
Breaking the Tilt Cycle
00:20:34
Speaker
This is Zach, I'm going to pronounce it the German way Leibner. That's at Zach Schwab at Zach underscore Schwab on Twitter. And then will Jordan at tuba 1060. They both asked, how do I stop from being tilted?
00:20:48
Speaker
I think if you call back to your first episode in the psychographic discussion, it's a very relevant question. And we'll ask a similar thing. What can you do to get off tilt once you recognize it? Oh, those are good questions. I, you know, I still struggle with that, obviously. I think for me, it just comes down to kind of taking myself out of the equation where it's like, so I try to I try to boil it down to what can I
00:21:15
Speaker
help because this is a game of variance and so you know if I if I had to mulligan to zero and couldn't find a bazaar there was literally nothing I could do there and so I feel like we tend to beat ourselves up over things we can't help where you know if your opponent finds that one copy of graph diggers cage and they play it on turn one what can you do there's literally nothing you can do like yeah you can board in four natures clans and hope to god you find it but sometimes you just don't find it and so
00:21:42
Speaker
just being able to free myself from those constraints has really, really helped me of being able to look at the situation and say, is there anything I really could have done here or did they just have it? Burn is a deck that I hate. I hate playing burn. I hate a lot of burn players. I just.
00:21:56
Speaker
You know, I hate losing the burn, but sometimes burn just has it. And so there was a while there where, you know, I would, I'd board in the three nod of the bones and I'd put up a really good fight. And that's not to say that I don't try, but sometimes it's just burn. Sometimes burn has it. And yeah, you played your collective brutality. Yeah, you did what you need to do, but it's burn. What can you do? And so just being able to free yourself from those constraints of just saying sometimes the deck just does what it came to do. Sometimes you did everything you could have done. You boarded incorrectly, or maybe you didn't board incorrectly, but identifying the things that you could have actually helped and made a difference in.
00:22:26
Speaker
And then also just identifying when they just have it. And it's just variance. And variance sometimes swings in your favor, and sometimes it doesn't. And just being able to identify the difference between the two has really been big for me. Just knowing when to throw up your hands and be like, what can you do? They just had it.
00:22:41
Speaker
And I think that this gets into kind of this question of what we can and can't control is actually probably my biggest suggestion for how to work on tilt if it's something that happens to you. Going along with what you said, Aaron, like paying attention to why you lost or did they have it. I think it's important and I got this said to me by a judge friend early on when I was playing in San Diego.
Evaluating Wins and Losses
00:23:03
Speaker
which was you also need to look at the games that you won. And I don't think people do enough of that. So they get tilted when they lose, I think they could potentially more because they're not realizing that when they win, they may still be making mistakes. And in order to get better, you need to know when you played a game, it doesn't matter that you won. How did you win? Yeah, I've also found vocalizing my puns has been really good where I will
00:23:32
Speaker
I'll be like, oh, I meant to play land this turn. And then I'll write that down and I'll be like, forgot to play land. Or it's like, oh, I should have, I should have dredged loam this turn. I write that down. And so a lot of times I will say it in a very neutral tone. I don't say it in any sort of upset tone or anything, but just being able to catch it when it happens. And then, you know, when I do feel like, you know, if, if I have lost, when I do start to feel that those bad feelings or just those feelings of, oh God, I lost this feels terrible. Go ahead and look at that pad and be like, hmm.
00:23:58
Speaker
Yeah, I discarded to a conflict that wasn't there. I didn't fetch this thing like.
00:24:05
Speaker
and just being able to really look at that and kind of put it in perspective, where it's like, you know, did they draw things they needed to? Yeah, but I also did six things I should have done either, and that really helps out. And I think, although this is tough to, this might not be exactly the answer to the question, but a lot of what I play is Commander, and I play decks that I build mostly for flavor reasons.
Playing EDH for Fun
00:24:28
Speaker
I build them for, you know, to be really,
00:24:30
Speaker
weird things that you know don't really work like i have a deck that i'm dreaming up where it makes all of my opponents make decisions i there i think there are no decisions in there for me it's just make my opponents make decisions and that could go really well that could go really poorly but i'm going to have an experience one way or another something's gonna happen
00:24:49
Speaker
And I think realizing, too, that element of why do you play what you're playing is part of it. For me, EDH is about just doing weird stuff. I'm very much, it's a Timmy, right? Yeah, I like having the experience. I'm very much a Timmy when it comes to the psychographic profiles. I want something weird to happen. I talked to Zach a little bit. Him and I had been messaging back and forth about this. He mentioned this idea of it's important to realize why we play games.
00:25:19
Speaker
at the heart of it, we want to have fun. I want to have fun. And I don't think of fun as a zero sum game. I don't think of magic as a zero sum game, even though I know that at the competitive levels, that's really what it is seen as. If I'm having fun, it's I want to have all the fun, which means I'm winning. But the key comes to tilt doesn't just happen.
Exploring Tilt in MTG
00:25:41
Speaker
And Aaron's touched on this a little bit. Tilt is not just about play. It's not just about making mistakes.
00:25:46
Speaker
people can get tilted because they sit down and they're playing a dredge player and they've had a horrible experience and they hate playing against dredge. Or they get really tilted because somebody drops graveyard hate on them. So it's thinking about the idea that
00:26:02
Speaker
it's not really it tilt has different aspects to it we've been talking a lot about it and we've tried to hit on the different elements competitive casual how it happens I think it's recognizing why we play the game and how we play the game yeah there's a misconception that tilt is always explosive anger but till it can be simply as
00:26:21
Speaker
As the kids like to say, when you get shook, when you're like, I'm shook. Yeah, that can be a thing where like, you know, you, uh, you know, you're, you're, I know for me, I was at India, I was at SCG, India a couple months ago. I was four and one. I was feeling really good about myself and a single digit table. I'm expecting, you know, affinity, bring it, Tron, bring it. Yeah, I'm ready. You know what? I got, I got, I got to play against, I played against red, white, nor in the wary. And I was just like, what? What is, what is.
00:26:45
Speaker
Well, this is your four and one, right? Like, this is the four and one area? Am I, are you playing this? I don't know what this is. I was shook. I was totally shook. Like, I wasn't mad, but I was just completely thrown off my game. You know, I went into it with this expectation that I was going to be facing a certain kind of deck. And I went into it with this guy who loved his random brew.
00:27:04
Speaker
he happened to be doing really well with it. And I had no idea how to deal with him. I didn't, I didn't, it wasn't in my sideboard guide. It wasn't something I prepared for. And I was shook. I was shaken. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know, you know, I felt like I didn't know how to play my deck. And so Tilkin sometimes processes just being shook where you're like, I don't know what's going on here. And so I was realizing I had put on here just like something less serious because I knew that our topic was going to
Favorite Graveyard Hate Cards
00:27:29
Speaker
be serious. Do we want to do another outro type fun question?
00:27:33
Speaker
How about we go around the table and say everyone's favorite graveyard hate-side board card? Are you serious? And why? Oh my god. I officially deny knowing all of you. Mine is Ley Line of the Void so that you can't have a graveyard, but I can.
00:27:52
Speaker
You know, I actually don't mind ley line. I wouldn't mind. I don't mind facing ley lines because at least with ley lines because the decks that play ley line, you typically know which decks play ley line. And at least you know what you're going to get. The hardest part about fighting graveyard hate is because there's just so much out there. You never know what to prepare for. But there are just some decks where it's like, you know, a ley lines coming. Cool. I'll brings her. I'll bring. I know what to bring. This is fine. So are you are you saying that ley line is your favorite or do you have a different one that you would
00:28:18
Speaker
if you wouldn't say it's my favorite i have been known to run ley lines myself right um no i wouldn't say so if there's a hierarchy of like graveyard hate i care about versus like it's tricky getting very political about this too notice the careful word selection i wouldn't say favorite yeah yeah this is this is an interesting this is like erin being bridled she's kind of like
00:28:40
Speaker
And not in a good way. Appropriate. See, I don't really play formats with sideboards. I just play commander. Good man. Are you the guy who plays landlining commander? No, no. I heard that before, actually. Someone else was saying that on Twitter, too. I guess I would have to say bajooka bug because I play a lot of land-centric decks and that's a great
00:29:07
Speaker
I'm gonna tell you about the time I saw this cute guy streaming and like so there was this cute guy streaming lands one day and I didn't know what he was playing and I just saw the thumbnail and I was like, oh hey cute guy streaming Let's see if he's playing and the minute I tune in he's like wasteland bazaar and then the person bazaars in response and then he plays a bog and I was like nope
00:29:30
Speaker
Nope. Some people don't want to date smokers. Some people don't want hair on the back. I don't want someone who does that. Just that. Maybe here's a question that we can go out on that is a little more fun for you.
Strategic Value of Manaless Dredge
00:29:42
Speaker
Manalists dredge. Super awesome or crazy awesome? So when I first started playing dredge, I used to look at Manalists as sort of like
00:29:49
Speaker
You know, the single, the single person at a wedding or you make them sit at the kid's table, you know, I used to think kind of, I didn't really have a great opinion of it, but I, I've actually started playing mannolist dredge within the past year. I do think it's quite strong in certain meta games, particularly in legacy. You know, if legacy is going to be a format of wastelands and counter spells and you're not casting spells or play lands, it's a great way to sort of play around that. So I've actually gained a lot more respect for mannolist dredge. Um, I've putzed around with it myself in different meta games.
00:30:16
Speaker
Um, I do think it's quite fun now with the, with a field full of blue decks. And so, you know, the only real graveyard hate that people are running in legacy is it's either four lay lines or four surgicals. That's really all people are doing right now because of reanimator. And so, you know, surgical really doesn't matter much to, um, manalists because manalists is so explosive or it can be in your running street race anyways. And so.
00:30:36
Speaker
I have a lot of respect for Manalists. I don't feel quite competent myself with it, but I've come a long way than when I first started Res before. I wouldn't even consider it, and now I think it's very respectable. I was going to say, if we go scrub her Twitter speed, I can find us some tweets about Manalists dredged. But I actually really like it now. Maybe not. I'm able to be posted in the show notes or in the description of this episode.
00:31:03
Speaker
I've come a long way. It shows all about growth. I have grown and I respect. I respect man. I don't think we could top that. I think we're done for the day with
Podcast Conclusion
00:31:12
Speaker
that. Like Aaron is right. She is much better at transitioning than we are. That's our show.
00:31:23
Speaker
You can find Erin Campbell on Twitter, at original estrus. That's original o-e-s-t-r-u-s. And you can find her on her own podcast, the Magic Mics Podcast. That's at magic m-i-c-s cast on Twitter. The show can be found on Twitter, at goblinlurepod. Or you can email us any questions, comments, or concerns at goblinlurepodcast at gmail.com.
00:31:52
Speaker
Joe Redman can be found on Twitter at Findhorn. That's F-Y-N-D Horn. Hobbs Q can be found at Hobbs Q. And Alex Newman can be found at Alexander Newham.
00:32:05
Speaker
Goblin Lore is a member of the Geek Therapy Network. Geek Therapy celebrates how geek culture can save the world through podcasts, videos, blog posts, community outreach, education, and convention appearances. It's a network of like-minded creators who believe that all different facets of nerd culture are important to understanding how our minds and communities work. Check them out at geektherapy.com or at geektherapy on Twitter.
00:32:34
Speaker
Thank you all for listening, and remember, goblins like snowflakes are only dangerous in numbers.