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Episode 239: Foundational Thoughts
122 Plays8 days ago
Hello, Podwalkers, and welcome back to another episode of the Goblin Lore Podcast! All the hosts are back (Taya and Hobbes might be recovered from Vegas(??))! And today we are talking about the return of Core Set... Kind of. You'll have to listen. Also this is a very Goblin Episode, you have been warned.
We also finally have a Linktree with all of our discounts/resources
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As promised, we keep Mental Health Links available every episode. But For general Mental Health the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) has great resources for people struggling with mental health concerns as well as their families. We also want to draw attention to this article on stigma from NAMI's site.
If you’re thinking about suicide or just need someone to talk to right now, you can get support from any of the resources below.
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 988
- Veteran's can Press 1 at anytime to be taken to the Veteran's Line
- Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741-741
- International suicide hotlines: A comprehensive resource list for people outside the US.
- IMAlive: Click Chat Now to access a live online network of volunteers through instant messaging.
- TrevorLifeline, TrevorChat, and TrevorText (LGBTQ+ crisis support): 1-866-488-7386, or text “Trevor” to 1-202-304-1200
- Trans Lifeline (US): (877) 565-8860
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Opening and closing music by Wintergatan (@wintergatan). Logo art by Steven Raffael (@SteveRaffle)
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Transcript
Reunion and Camaraderie
00:00:00
Speaker
are
00:00:07
Speaker
okay
00:00:12
Speaker
um
00:00:30
Speaker
Hello Podwalkers and welcome back to the Goblin Lore podcast with all three Goblin Lore hosts. It is a I don't know what time of year it is miracle.
00:00:42
Speaker
like Day of the Dead. I think we already passed that. But anyway, we're all here tonight. um Myself, Hobbs, Alex, and Taya. That's who we are. We are the Goblin Lore podcast. Taya and I have just returned from actually getting to see each other in person and continuing our trend of not playing much magic with each other. No, we got a game in a- What? We got a turn in.
00:01:07
Speaker
Yeah, no, yeah, right. I don't think we ever even got a full game in. We did not. We sat down to find a game and we couldn't find a game. And then I got into a game later that you came and finished, took over the person's deck. Uh, met a lupus, our friend, uh, Bob, uh, friend of the show, um, playing, it was pretty easy, Alex, for Tia to take over. Okay.
00:01:31
Speaker
Yeah, because it was playing during ready. Oh, OK. So, ah but it was like the final turnaround that basically Taya sat down,
Game Reflections and Strategy Adjustments
00:01:43
Speaker
played a turn, passed and we all died. Yeah. So we did better in Vegas and martin in Minneapolis by getting one full game in or maybe two.
00:01:53
Speaker
Maybe two. I don't remember. It was the last day there, though, too. Yeah, I got to play four full commander games. One of them was a CDH game with somebody else's deck that I lost miserably because I got man screwed on three lands the whole game. ah But all three games I played with my own deck, I managed to win.
00:02:15
Speaker
That's pretty impressive. yeah I realized that I need to power down Breaches and Malcolm, my heterosexual life partner's deck. It is still, I think I need to just completely pull out the package that allows Quark Sakashima at all. Even though that's not the focus of the deck anymore, that just needs to come out. um Because I had two crocs in play and i I ended up with one of these turns where I i was bonus rounding. I had bonus rounded. i Every spell was getting at least doubled, if not more. And I was getting a copy no matter what. So even if I missed all my coin flips, I was still getting a copy. And I did an epic experiment for X equals 15 and we got three copies of it off yeah again. you see
00:03:01
Speaker
Um, so yeah. And I realized that it it kind of happened out of nowhere. I basically, I, I, I turn about did three times, I think. Yeah. and There was a lot. I had a lot of mana. There was a lot of mana going on, but it really did just kind of happen out of nowhere. So I was realizing that I probably just need to pull that package completely, just not make it where I could even get those two creatures on the table. I think they're just too powerful.
00:03:31
Speaker
For casual. So. But anyway, it's cool. We learn we learn. I hadn't had a chance to play, right? I don't get to play much magic, so you don't know. It just happened that I ah the week before the event, um Beth was staying with my family and we had like a small little commander get together and I did.
00:03:52
Speaker
epic experiment for X equals 23 times that night. So in similar fashion. um So it was me just realizing that, huh, maybe we need to do something about this. Yeah, my ammo dang decks a little bit better than I expected to.
00:04:11
Speaker
what what What was the what's the key there? um It's basically doing large damage to a single creature and then having it do it to all opponents. So, you know, i the first game I played with it, I got to shiven meteor ah feather two turns in a row using business mastery. So I did 26 to the whole table ah with that and then the ah second game i played with it i had in the heb out and so i did some damage to everybody uh early with uh a braid so i got him up to nine um from that and then i attacked with a bunch of stuff uh and i got 22 mana um out of that and i cast a uh
00:05:01
Speaker
I don't remember which one, but I cast a ah fireball version for 21 damage on a creature and blew everybody out. ah These things happen. so You get a chance to play. You don't know. Yeah. But yeah, the the damage racks up really fast with him. That makes me very happy. Yeah, I like setting stuff on fire. Me too.
00:05:29
Speaker
And I like using breaches in Malcolm to throw things. Uh, also Stella Lee is a fantastic red, blue card. yeah If you all haven't seen that one back in OTJ again, apparently that set just had everything for red, blue. So.
00:05:43
Speaker
Anyway, we're here tonight to talk about
Foundations Set and Personal Magic Histories
00:05:47
Speaker
Foundations. So Foundations is the upcoming Magic the Gathering set that pre-releases our this weekend. And it's kind of an interesting thing because it's not one product either. And it's our return to core sets.
00:06:02
Speaker
question mark well well it's Well, I say that because it's like everything in it, at least in the main set, is going to be standard legal for five years. yeah so it's like we're not It's not we're like we're getting a bunch of stuff, but we're getting a lot of cards added into standard at once that are then and going to be able to last. but this is also ah return to Core Set in the sense of like, this is meant to be a product to get people back into magic. So we're gonna we'll get into that. Because we're first going to start off by introducing ourselves as we've now been talking for six minutes. And I said all of our names and didn't say anything more. But hi, my everybody. My name is Hobbs Q. My pronouns are he him. And our question for the day, which I am not going to answer first, because I still don't have an answer is
00:06:49
Speaker
What plane is really your foundational plane of magic? Or what set, I guess. you You can go either way because I know, Alex, if I make it... I wanted you to have the option to cheat as much as you want to do without feeling that you had to cheat. I'm not going to lie. When you said plane, I opened Discord and was like, wait, did he say plane? Because I was thinking set. I thought he said set. Okay, cool. i'm so I did say set. My concern was that I said set and then you actually picked a plane or something. Oh, no, no, no, I picked a set. Well, I picked two sets. Anyway, I'm Alex.
00:07:24
Speaker
No longer found on Twitter um at all. Yeah, you need to update the ah outro. I got to record an all new outro and say that, well, at least would who knows where to find Alex on the Internet. and Yeah, I haven't. I have downloaded but not even opened the the Blue Sky app. So I don't know if I'm going to go into a new social media thing or not yet. I guess the place to find me is the Goblin Lore discard. And I've been off of Twitter for more than six months. Yeah, that's fine. It's fine. Yeah. Hardly recording things y'all My pronouns are he him I guess should I answer the question first? yeah sure i got i have to I'm sorry, but I said the way you could that kind of rolled off of your tongue was like my pronouns are he him I guess like Okay like it
00:08:12
Speaker
um yeah So um i the the the easy, low-hanging fruit answer that may come up later when a different person introduces themselves, for for me, would be revised. So I'm not really going to... That's the first that I play, but I don't really want to talk... That didn't set the that set didn't set the tone for how I play Magic so much as it said that I played Magic. Though I will say... Even though the game back in 1994 was very much engineered to be head 1v1, that was how the game was designed. That's how they told you to play the game. I didn't. um We played it in groups of four and five and six, even then with really bad starter decks that were completely randomized and you might not have the right basic lands to play the cards that were in your deck, because that's how card coalition worked at the time.
00:09:06
Speaker
We were playing group games even then, but I guess um also going to a set from from that time, slightly predating me playing, actually. I i would say Legends. Maybe it's another one. The the cards from the set itself, I mean, now that I think about it, one of my three main commanders is from the set of Legends that also came out in 1994.
00:09:31
Speaker
But that's the set where Legendary Creatures were created. That's the first set where they had gold cards, multicolored cards. There's so much that defines what hooked me into the game and what appeals to me was built into that set. The the flavor of these characters that have these unique abilities. like Nebuchadnezzar is a card that I still am fascinated by, even though it's such a weird, awkward card, you know, 20, oh no, 30 years later.
00:10:03
Speaker
ah with But that that i would I think that is definitely the set that but kind of set the tone for how I engage with magic, even if the commander format didn't show up until much later. But I suppose the Elder Dragons came out of legend. So I guess that there's a tie there, too. Thank you, Alex. Taya. Hey, Taya. Pronouncers, she, her, they, them.
00:10:28
Speaker
um Yeah, so I also was going to say revised, like Alex, because that was my first set. oh and ah But you know if I really want to talk about how I play magic and what I do ah when I play magic, I'm going to have to say Kaladesh because it was just such an artifact every deck, and I've always loved artifacts.
00:10:58
Speaker
um So I missed out playing during Mirrodin and Scars of Mirrodin, so I missed out on those artifact blocks. um But ah Kaladesh came out with all the cool new artifacts and vehicles and everything. And that was just, that really is,
00:11:19
Speaker
um I mean, I go back to playing ah on the the old MTG computer game, I played a ah deck that was all moxen and black lotuses for the entire mana base, and then I played it with mana barbs and ah the one that deals damage when you don't tap lands. So if anybody who played lands was screwed either way. and I had dingus eggs in it too. So my love of artifacts goes back a long way, basically to the beginning.
00:11:50
Speaker
um But I think Kaladesh really took that too. It was the first all artifacts, you know, or heavy artifacts deck of set that I got to play. And I really enjoyed that. And the. ah um Showcase cards or, ah you know, the expedition variants were all artifacts for that set. And I um really love the art style and those. And I have a bunch of those. I never did get a man managed to get a soul ring, though, before they went to like twelve hundred bucks.
00:12:21
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That, that is, that soul ring and the judge promo one are the two that I think of as being like the most blinged out versions, but yeah you just need like a proof then of the soul ring expert. Oh yeah. So hi everybody. Again, Hobbs Q it's funny. I think you all are going to laugh at my answer. I'm wondering if either of you have a guess at it.
00:12:50
Speaker
Fallen empires.
00:12:54
Speaker
Hilariously, I don't know. Did you ever see those random card sleeves that came out of Japan? Oh yeah, I did with the setbacks. Yeah, somebody got and has a bunch of them somebody got me a fallen empire set while it was in Vegas. And I'm really excited for that. We actually had a box that we were planning on drafting one year that we never got to.
00:13:14
Speaker
It is not though. It is merited original and that seems a little surprising. I would think with me, I'm not known for being like an artifact player or anything like that, but it actually was because of what that was the first time that I really got to. So my friends had just gotten into magic. I had learned from people in college playing. It was like onslaught block, but they were playing revised cards and whatever they own from like friends. So there was like.
00:13:43
Speaker
Odyssey in there. There might have been some random like it was like a lot of like revised fourth fifth edition like corset stuff and then some random blocks throughout magic history So I learned with all that I moved back home and all my friends have been started to play with onslaught They were all playing typo decks like everybody was playing either elves or goblins We move into when we're all like living in one place together and buying cards, they all really got into Miranin and they all went heavy on affinity. And I had started to like be like, well, you know, I wonder what other sets are out there that I don't know about or things I haven't learned. And and so I was building my decks.
00:14:17
Speaker
And I was just like getting killed by artifacts. And so I was playing like a version of Psychotog with upheaval that I had kind of like built off of online, but it didn't work for multiplayer because there's four players you got to kill and not one. And and I was just getting killed by artifacts and it introduced me to the amazing card Energy Flux.
00:14:37
Speaker
Uh, so energy flux means that all, uh, artifacts have an upkeep cost of two. And yes, when everybody is playing artifact lands, because this was just two engine table magic, all of their lands now had an upkeep cost of two.
Beginner Products and Planeswalkers Return
00:14:51
Speaker
And this started me on my villain arc of just liking to control the way the game is being played or, or liking to really affect.
00:14:59
Speaker
how people are having to engage with it. I think of it actually as you were kind of saying Teo with the with things like the mana barbs type of facts or dingus eggs is where like I just learned, huh, I can just shut my friends down and until they determine that they they can't just keep playing whatever the new strategy is from a deck because I had just gotten off of playing them all plain typo for like five months.
00:15:23
Speaker
So, yeah, it was actually Mirden, where it led me to really discover older cards because I was looking for ways to beat my friends.
00:15:34
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah, I really like Mirden. I wasn't playing when it came out, but that was one of the first sets I collected when I got back into the games. Ooh, an artifact set.
00:15:46
Speaker
But, you know, when I did play modern, I was playing affinity. I don't think it's been a modern deck in a long time, but. ah I mean, it's still legacy, though, right? Yeah, I guess. I don't know. In legacy, I'm going to I just played show and tell because I like sneaking out draws and gristlebrands onto the board. Sorry.
00:16:09
Speaker
ah my My brain is so, so broken by new all the internet in recent events. I just saw that in the, you know, really, you know, person of your skill. It's, it's a simple life and it's just you sneaking Eldrazi into play is just a simple life. Yeah. I don't know. So speaking of Eldrazi, we're going to talk foundations. yeah Foundation like that's somehow speaking of Eldrazi like there's this one and really cool Eldrazi in it there there is there is literally one the the sire one the sire of seven deaths which costs seven mana it's a seven seven and it has seven abilities including pay seven eleven light right yeah yeah so um yeah i mean that's not going in my recto stack
00:17:03
Speaker
let's talk about foundations because you and you also mentioned you already brought up the first part, which is jumpstart. um So jumpstart is now like here. And there's no overlap in the cards between foundations and jumpstart 2025. Technically, there's not supposed to be, they are part of this, like,
00:17:19
Speaker
beginner box. The Jumpstart packs are different than Jumpstart 2025. There's some confusion. There are some of the Foundations cards printed in Jumpstart, but they have the Jumpstart set symbol as well, but they are reprints from Foundations. Yes.
00:17:36
Speaker
Um, which is the weird thing. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and there's also jumpstart packs that are in the beginner box and those are different than what is jumpstart 2025. So there's a beginner box. So like, this is the thing, right? Like, so there's a lot of like a beginner box is actually, it's pretty cool if you haven't seen it in the sense that it comes with a play math that has zones marked out on it. It is meant to actually teach people to play magic by giving you like some jumpstart packs to shuffle up and to play.
00:18:05
Speaker
Okay, school. Yeah, which is kind of cool. ah But it is. So those jumpstart packs are not the same and necessarily a jumpstart 2025. Okay. Now, one thing that I really wanted to see, um or or am interested to point out is there are no commander products for this. Yeah, that makes sense to me.
00:18:30
Speaker
Yeah. Um, I, I was going to point out the same thing. I was actually so surprised when I went to look at the pre-order page on my LGS because they're, they have printed a commander set with like every set since I Correa. Yes.
00:18:46
Speaker
Commander is horrible for on ramping neutral. Yeah, it is. It's terrible. and And I think they've said this, right? Like, like I know Gavin talks about this a ton. So it was nice to see that they basically said, okay, we're not going to do it because we just had them for something that made no Like we had it for what? There was like a set that made no sense. Modern Horizons 3? Oh yeah. Like why do we have commander decks for that? I don't know, but that lands deck is so much fun. It is! I must say that it isn't. But it's literally in the name of the product, a different format. Right, yes. Do you want to know something funny though? What's that? Arcane Signet is in Foundations.
00:19:28
Speaker
OK, there are a few random cards that are like commander focused that are in these. And if there isn't a set, but it is meaning that we're going to end up in. This isn't the first time, right? Because it happened and with because they needed it in the brawl. Is it and I've not seen it in the set. Is it in the jump start?
00:19:51
Speaker
It is definitely in there. ah arcane signt No, it's it's it's listed as Foundations Commander, which makes no sense. yeah <unk>s not in the Yeah, it's not on the Scryfall page. For for either the Jumpstart or the set, maybe. But it's listed under Foundations Commander and there is no Foundations Commander. Yeah. So I think that this might i think this might be an error in the way that it is, because there is no Foundations Commander.
00:20:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think that it's in one of the sets. Um, I could be wrong on this, but I don't know why they would print it in a set that it can't be played. So they did it previously so that it could be played in brawl. Right, but they printed it in the brawl pre cons.
00:20:37
Speaker
Yes. But it was legal and standard at that time. Right, it didn't do anything though. No, but I believe that was my understanding is that it was going to do that again, which I just think is one of those funny, interesting quirks of like not printing for a commander, but still wanting to support a commander ish format. Yeah, well, and and that the issue with arcane signal notwithstanding, I think the I like the edit that aren't committed X for something that's supposed to be ah an intro product.
00:21:05
Speaker
But in both the Jumpstart and the base product, there are a lot of interesting legends. If someone plays the game, engages with the game, and enjoys the game, and then says, I want to try you know this other popular format, there are a lot of options. Oh, there's so many options, that especially when you add in the Jumpstart card, because there's so there's so many um new versions Yes, we got Elesha. We got a new Elesha, yes. She's a little nerfed in her old age, but we have an old Elesha showing um that she survived to old age. She did survive to old age. Yep. And one thing that is interesting is mechanically not as not as impactful as the original one, but would be more impactful for a new player's collection.
00:22:01
Speaker
as opposed to the older Elesha is more impactful if you have the very specific old cards that are more powerful. Yeah. I'm definitely putting her in my Elesha deck, even though she's not great in it, but... Because she doesn't play well with the old Elesha because if you bring her back when you're attacking, you don't get her attack triggered too. Correct. Yeah.
00:22:24
Speaker
But I do like, like you said, Alex, like there, there is still a large number of legendaries. I mean, I think, I mean, if we pulled up like legendaries by Scrifle, I know that. um Yeah. And we also got a newer Rabo and he's been heavily nerfed too. Yes.
00:22:41
Speaker
I did not know this until I heard people talking about this in Vegas, that a Rabo is basically supposed to be like the first sliver is. Or the urge dragon or the urge dragon of cats. Yes. Then all the cats are traced back to Arvo, which is cool. yeah I do like that, but like you said, they made like a nerfed version because once again, the complexity of these need to be down a little bit, right? That's always I'm not saying that these are not complex compared to say, oh, no, these are still way more complex than old.
00:23:16
Speaker
What we started with four revised in fourth, eighth edition, but there's some legit vanilla creatures in this set, and that makes me happy to see a long time. It's there a goblin that's basically a bear, like ah a two man, a two to goblin. Maybe I'm looking at there's like the reprint that caught my eye because I'm weird and weird things catch my fusion elemental, which is an eight eight for Wuburg.
00:23:44
Speaker
Vanilla creature. But we didn't get Colossal Dreadmaw for some reason. Yeah. And then there's ah there's a 12-8 Dinosaur in the base set, which I also appreciate. but Green representing more weird power toughness combos. Yes. um Yeah. That's also a card that a new player would look at and go, this is ridiculous. I have to play this 12 power. Perfect. It's it's great. I love that.
00:24:14
Speaker
So, and and I do like, you know, they that we are bringing back Planeswalkers, but they did it kind of like they did when we first got them in a Core Set. There's one for each color. And it is not the same of what we've been getting either. Which is pretty sweet. It's Liliana, Ajani, Kaido, Chandra, and Vivian Reid. Yeah. Well, Jace is too busy trying to destroy the multiverse to show up in a Core Set.
00:24:42
Speaker
Of course, that that could give you all the different planes and time periods is what you're saying. Jace is still too busy. Yeah. He's trying to get loop back still. oh Who is also in this set? I just. Yes, a mono green loot, which is so so painful for me because ah yet another card that but allows you to play an additional land each turn. It's like, i can I get enough of those? I don't think I can, but Now I have to find room for that in my, my Zyra deck. Um, yeah. I mean, there's, uh, just want to punch that little thing. I thought of puppet in Vegas. Y'all I I'm not coming back from any, from any of this. I'm starting this, this descent into madness. Um, but no, I mean, the the idea here is that everything is supposed to like have reprint cards that in franchise players may want.
00:25:41
Speaker
But we want new cards to be the best way for people to learn. I like the name. I'm a little bummed origins was missing or origins has already been used. Yeah. um But foundations is also a really good take on that, like the concept of foundations. If you have to actually have scaffolding, you need to build people up because or build people in because I've been wondering how you bring new players on outside of something like jumpstart.
00:26:05
Speaker
you know, like where you can just supple up. It's been really, it's felt like there hasn't been good on-ramps for new players. Yeah. know And we've we we've talked about this when doing some of this, we talked about it a lot during the Dr. Who set is they released these really awesome commander decks that are going to draw on people that haven't played magic before, haven't in a long time. And those were some ridiculously complex decks.
00:26:30
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I like I there's so many I mean, what the you know, the time that we got to actually play Dr. Who Taya, you were playing the timey wimey and you had more upkeep triggers than I think I've ever had with the deck. Yeah. And like, trying to understand if you wanted those to go off in a certain way. You know what I mean? Like, there's, yeah, there's, there's a lot of complexity even for things that are that you let's say say the universe beyond that might be bringing in new players a different way, right? Not i mean through IPs. Yeah, there wasn't something to like point people to. I mean, this is why groups like I think magic kids exist to try to teach people using like they have to create their own little mini decks to teach people with. Right. Because it's very hard. There isn't a product that you can point people to. And like last fall, they released those starter commander decks. which were pretty simple, straightforward decks, but it's still commander and it's a terrible starter format. Right. Right. Right. Like, you know, most people I know that so outside of when, once I learned with my friends, the way that I started getting more and more into magic was like, I, I, I drafted a little bit or I opened up some packs and then I would start building a 60 card deck out of them. And other people had random 60 card decks that just isn't the style of what people are doing. So it it is this, how do we,
00:27:51
Speaker
actually teach people to play magic. If we're saying that Commander is not the way, yet it's the way that most of us casual people play.
00:28:01
Speaker
So I think having something called foundations that you can point to and actually try to bring, use this hopefully to bring people on. Um, like I said, the beginner box is the piece that, um, I'm interested to to actually see an action to see what it, it does. I think it comes with, I don't even know fully what's in it. Uh, I had it up on the site a little while earlier, 10 decks, 10 themed jumps, or I pulled it up.
00:28:25
Speaker
Oh, okay. but So 10 decks that you can shuffle together, which I also would note is enough for five people to play a big five person group game. Yeah, yes, that's true. That is true. So it it allows and and so this is all in a box. So you can have folks who play magic like Richard Garfield intended, or you just have a box you put on your shelf with your board games.
00:28:48
Speaker
um Or you could use that as the way to get it get deeper into the game. Start that, learn it, and then start to buy more cards and build your collection from there. um But yeah, and I like the jumpstart.
00:29:02
Speaker
I love to jumpstart as a product for pickup and play, which is great to use as a new player thing. um It also, especially a box set like this that is specific decks, allows Wizards to tailor it. And even looking at this, they they so call out that two of the decks, the the cats and the vampires, are actually specifically ordered, predetermined, and does... Yeah, so you don't shuffle them.
00:29:31
Speaker
specifically order to play, the decks are not to be shuffled. For which ones? Cats and vampires. yeah is For like a first game sample, it walks you through each turn. Yeah, for the tutorial. Yeah, there's a tutorial. Literally. And then they have, here's the tutorial order, if you want to resect them to teach a new person how to play the game, you can set up a physical tutorial with these card games.
00:29:54
Speaker
And this is where i was the the confused where i was confused a little bit earlier. So what it is is the decks contain additional foundation cards, but no other cards from foundation jumpstart 2025. So even though they are jumpstart decks.
00:30:10
Speaker
They are jumpstart decks that only have cards from foundation. Yeah, they they are not from a particular jumpstart set. No, jumpstart style decks, decks like we would have a commander deck or a whatever form. Yeah, this is where the names get a little weird because yeah, yeah, because the terminology is that the whole idea because like jumpstart 25, for instance, or the the jumpstart, which I believe there's going to be jumpstart now moving forward with every set um or with I think with most releases, they're going to be doing more jumpstart, which is fine. I actually love jumpstart.
00:30:40
Speaker
Um, but they're not standard legal. So that's where you get into kind of some of the confusing pieces. Isn't the jumpstart cards or the jumpstart 20, 25 cards are not standard legal. I'm just looking through the foundation starter set and they put a dark steel Colossus in there. what yeah that Yes, they did. At least it's not blight steel. yeah If you want to get the Timmy's and Tammy's interested.
00:31:10
Speaker
Yeah. There's a good way to start. And they got a buyer cub. So you have the adorable side, too. Yeah. And there's then there is then what's a starter collection that's like a next. Jump up from. her Yeah, that's what I was looking at was a starter collection. so Yeah, sorry. Oh, OK. So starter collection is like the next jump up. And I believe that is where it that's got that symbol that we're seeing for the arcane signet. So this is where the arcane signet ah
00:31:41
Speaker
comes from, I believe. It still doesn't show it on Scryfall even in this set. It's so weird because that's the set sim. Oh, here it is. See, it says right here. These cards will be standard legal until 2029. Additionally, there are three cards not from foundations that will help you build a commander deck. Sol Ring, Arcane Signet, and Command Tower.
00:32:00
Speaker
OK, now it is from it for not from foundation. So it doesn't even tell you where there i'm they're. there in the starter collection. Yeah. See, so this is that there is some stuff that's still a little weird because like you they want because this is the next step. Right. right Like it comes with some it comes with three hundred and eighty seven. Magic cards like from foundations and then some boosters and 90 basic lands.
00:32:26
Speaker
So it's supposed to be like a mini collection. and This is Alex is more of the like mini collection in a box that you can get. Well, and this is what I'm what I'm seeing. And it will see how it works. Maybe maybe this is working better. But this feels a lot like you both have been playing the game long enough that maybe you remember the the period in time when they used to have designations for the sets as either beginner, intermediate or expert, expert. Yep.
00:32:52
Speaker
Yup. The product levels. Yeah, the different product levels. And they put that on the packaging um in an attempt to... to This is a thing they've been trying to do for a long time is figure out how to unwrap people in. And so that was that. So that's back when they had starter. um That must have been around 2000 because there was a starter 99 and a starter 2000, I think.
00:33:13
Speaker
So it would have been a right around then there was portals. I think the first one or two were printed with that on there. Yeah, that was that was the idea of the first two portal sets. And then they had like starter 2000, which continued the portal idea. And then your course sets were intermediary. So whatever course that's around then 70, something like that.
00:33:35
Speaker
And then your normal standard booster sets at the time, your, your, we're called expert sets. Yep. Those were the expert sets. And so it feels like they're kind of going back to that structure only rather than label everything
Magic's Future and Personal Connections
00:33:50
Speaker
this way. They're like have a very specific.
00:33:53
Speaker
it's It's a very specific product where it's this yeah foundation beginner set, the foundation expansion set or whatever. Starter collection. That's the one. yeah And then you kind of go from there to to go further into the game, either deeper into foundation boosters yeah or other things as you decide. Yeah. And they actually have good cards in that starter collection because they used to release that product that was like the ah deck builder's toolkit that they had for every core set that came with garbage cards. yes Yeah, like that was like mean anything you could even potentially get good in it. I remember. Yeah, mean I mean, they gave you cards like Sarah Angel and stuff, but there was nothing you could put there that you're going to build ah
00:34:33
Speaker
you know, a decent deck with where this one has a really nice selection of cards out of 350 cards they give you. Yeah. Yeah. so So the idea here is actually have a product to bring people on again.
00:34:47
Speaker
which I think is a great thing. And you know i think for I had floated to you all wanting to talk a little bit about this in terms of, you know you know now we've kind of established what this is and how it functions as kind of our new version of Core Sets. And you know it's it's interesting because we're getting this right after the announcement that we're moving to like a 50-50 on universes beyond. And they're gonna be like standard legal yep now. Which, I guess I don't know that I have an opinion.
00:35:17
Speaker
yeah I don't know what the opinion is on this right now, but it's a it's a shift and It's I've been thinking about this in terms of shifting like my relationship with the game, especially as somebody who doesn't play standard, right? Like that that affects me less and less. I like know what does affect me is that we're getting half the story we used to. too Yes. So that is where, you know, so this means that we're not getting less story. We also means we're pushing Lorwyn now to 2026. And I was actually really excited about Lorwyn.
00:35:50
Speaker
Um, the other thing I was talking about recently that's been a shift is I, I, I, I think it was this year that I more missed block structure than other years or yeah some sort of multi-set structure. I would have liked to have been on Bloomberg for more than one set. I would have, I think actually, so it's funny cause I yeah like, this is where people's interests lie. I would have taken all three new settings we had this year, three new settings.
00:36:18
Speaker
I would have taken multiple sets of them because they were new settings. And one of them is like supposed to be, we've you know, we had our this whole discussion on Thunder Junction and it not supposed to be like nobody, like this undiscovered prairie, which they took right people out of so you didn't have to deal with colonization. But same time, like we know nothing about it, right? Like it's a brand new plane that's supposed to be this weird, like wild frontier. And we got like stories, not enough.
00:36:56
Speaker
So what do you mean? ah I mean, it's getting too far away from that core like fantasy aspect that magic has been built on. The aesthetics of the set were definitely were definitely outside of magics kind of core. And even like Bloomberg was stretching it a little bit, but was still very core fantasy aesthetic. Yeah. And was adorable. um That was fantastic. It gets a pass because of being adorable. a yeah Yeah, that's that's fair. And and yeah, and I agree with you, Hobbs, that you know all three being new settings were really interesting. the Having more story would have been great, but also I can see some concern, like if we're going to this half-Universes Beyond, half-actual magic cards from a from a story standpoint, and then some of those stories don't feel as magic and we're kind of pushing things,
00:37:53
Speaker
yeah you start to feel like you're getting less and less of of that, that Borthos aspect. That is a big part of how we engage with the game. Right. And the next step we're getting is the interplanar death rates, which again, doesn't feel very magic to me. No, it's it's. And then showing off like the one thing they've shown off of it really is the fact that there's a you know an equipment spark equipment planeswalker spark and it's just like this is like totally out of place with any of the lore what like i mean old lore right it's almost like bringing in weird old lore with like ursa being able to craft
00:38:34
Speaker
a spark or like find one. Well, I mean, I mean, we can look at it. It's been sort of recent in, you know, we've had it recently in story with external sparks, like, you know, on the here, he literally fumbled hers and broke it. It's a fairy, right? Yeah, it's very eight his to get it.
00:38:53
Speaker
they what yes But I just think that, you know, I guess we'll see more when the story comes out. is but If this is like a spark independent from a planeswalker, that is new territory.
00:39:06
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and, and it's, I'm just thinking like, again, magic story, like the sort of the faces of it just fascinate me how, how the, the waves of storytelling and how, how they, how it sort of changes over, over time is, is it kind of trying to do different things or have different goals around it. And at this point, this is the first time in that I can recall in a very long time where we've had four new planes in a row.
00:39:34
Speaker
Is that accurate or did no, I, I think that's iset come in between and break that pattern. Um, sorry. What did what come in? Sorry. Clues set. No, uh, uh, murders at car, no murders. No murders was prior to that was right before OTJ. We went to J murders to OTJ to bloom burrow to decimal and then now it'll be death race. And what is the death race going to be? We don't know.
00:40:02
Speaker
what the plane actually is. I think they said it's it it covers multiple planes using... Yeah, that like it's like um hitting power that one or two planes that we haven't been to but are in story and and then visiting a plane we have been to but haven't returned to. it I'm pretty sure that's Kaladesh. That makes the most sense for that one. yes like so I don't think we could do this without having Kaladesh. No.
00:40:25
Speaker
um yeah I'm kind of expecting one of the other two to be Vryn. He's been in the story for a long time, and we've never gotten a set set there. and the It's kind of a sparse, kind of miserable war world, so it'd be a good place for a death race. Yeah, and it's very magic tech. Yeah, another magic tech plane. Yeah, that's interesting. I forgot that was going to multiple planes, so that's a little bit different. But still, even three new planes in a row is what would be I don't know that's where it felt when we've done that it it felt breakneck speed yeah that's why I'm thinking we're not giving enough room for to to like learn new planes now it's gonna be even worse with only getting half of actual magic sets and half of university ba beyond no story
00:41:13
Speaker
Yeah, and sorry my I lost train of I lost track of my thought halfway through um Part of that was part of why that was noteworthy and interesting is this is what's happening Well three of the four sets we've mentioned the fourth set being one that was on Ravnica that are happening post um The phyrexine invasion changing the metaphysics of the universe again. Mm-hmm. And so this is whenever I think anyway it's fascinating to kind of see what they do as maybe story resets post those major changes you you look at the mending and then we have a bunch of quick clip we go to lore when we go to um
00:41:53
Speaker
wherever we went after Lora and Zendikar. And so it was like, same kind of thing. Four when Alara, Zendikar reared in. So yeah, we went. There'd have been three, again, three new ones in her there. Yeah. Right after another big multiversal change. And so it's, but it feels more breakneck because all of those sets got were blocks. So there were four Lora when sets broken in half because of the weirdness of that play. And there were three Zendikar and three Alara.
00:42:21
Speaker
And so it's it's, I don't know. I don't know that that means anything. It's just interesting to me but that for so long we were getting you know the Gatewatch and we were kind of getting the same characters over and over again in some of these same story things. And we're kind of going to the same places a lot, not revisiting new, plate youre not seeing new places. And then all of a sudden they just go rattle off three new sets in a row plus a death race, which is going to hit multiple planes. Yes.
00:42:48
Speaker
And then in the midst of this is when we do get and this is where I was kind of going with the the universe beyond kind of peace is that I do think that it's an important time or a good time to think about our our magic foundations for ourselves like
00:43:05
Speaker
entrenched longtime players, right? I mean, I think it's fair to say we're, we know some of the lore a little bit. We've been playing, as you all said already for the two of you, revised, you know, maybe have some breaks, but this is a, we're having a shift in the foundation of for how magic is going to be coming out. And we have our own decisions to make on our relationship that we want to have with the game. And I think that people are going to be,
00:43:33
Speaker
kind of questioning that. And it was interesting to me to get to come out of Vegas, right? With that announcement, and then come straight into foundations. Yeah, because it then all of a sudden he was like, Whoa, this is like, actually a way that I've missed for getting new players into the game.
00:43:54
Speaker
Or what do we do with them if they come in through a universe beyond, let's say, and keep them, right? Like, how do we keep them here in magic? You know, there's always been that discussion of, right? Like, if universe beyond brings people in, then how do we keep them here? The the hard part is that it was always wanting to keep them there with our IP or with, when I say our, I don't mean to take ownership. I mean, magic the gathering, what we think of yeah magic and, um,
00:44:22
Speaker
i don't know, right? Like the foundations, now we have a way to do this, to hopefully keep players in the game. Yeah. And I, saw I yeah, yeah. And we'll, we'll see how it works for that. I think it'll be, it has some of the pieces that could make it an effective tool for that, but it also has some, some things for concern like you, like you're talking about with the, um, with the legality, um, confusion potentially between some of the different foundations products. Cause it's not unlike other magic sets before. Well, I guess that isn't the case even more recently because of how commander sets work, but
00:44:57
Speaker
For a long time, you would say, here is a magic set. There might be multiple ways to get these cards, but they're all part of the same set. They all share the same legality. That is not the case for foundations. And here is a really, really wildly small thing that maybe literally no one else notices or has noticed.
00:45:17
Speaker
but here Did any either of you notice in the foundation's base set, they added the constellation frame to all the enchantments? Yes, I did notice that. I did. Did you notice that they didn't do that for the foundation jumpstart? I did not. Yeah.
00:45:35
Speaker
I noticed half of that. Yeah, so that is it's a very weird thing, but it makes me think of aforementioned set portal, where they tried to use that as a intro set, which may or may not have been useful. I don't know, I was entrenched by that point in time. But there were multiple things that portal cards did.
00:45:55
Speaker
that were different from normal magic cards. yep that There was no instance in Portal. Yeah, there was that. There were no instance, but there were sorceries that you could cast on other people's terms. And their power and toughness were denoted by a sword and a shield. shield yeah with Which honestly makes sense. Yes. right But I think there was some confusion then moving to products that don't do that. And so it it was... the the in Again, I don't know how useful some of those were and maybe Wizards has better data on this and maybe it wasn't super useful and that's why they stopped doing it. I don't know, but it feels weird to be like we're going to denote this specific card type in a special way.
00:46:42
Speaker
in one part of the set, but in another set that has the same name, we're not doing that. I just assumed, looking at this set spoiler, I'm like, oh, they're just doing that going forward for all enchantments. That makes sense. Which makes sense. Makes sense, right? But they didn't do the jumps. They only did it in one of the sets. Yeah. And I'm wondering if they did that ah be Differently because they were developed at different times. or and you know That is a distinct possibility that we'll find out when the next set comes out. yeah Maybe they were being developed in parallel and that decision was made too late to put that on the Jumpstart cards.
00:47:21
Speaker
Yeah, yeah and we still have that there is a lot of treatments. Now, most of these treatments are not available until you get into collector boosters. And once again, I think at that point, most new players are not just picking up and buying collector's boosters. Oh, I hope not. I'm not going to, I'm not judging any of this, but to me, it is so bizarre to have this new, new player intro product. They're like, by the way, we also have a whale version of this. Yeah. all right i sure Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:48
Speaker
yeah yeah And it's funny because they they they've been really good. like yeah There's a doubling season with cats. There is. I need that card so much. I don't even know what deck I'll put it in right now, but I need it. Doesn't matter, right? you know but like i know but you know like There's Rexian Arena that has a Xenomorph on it. I mean, come on. yeah There is a Sphinx's tutelage that is in that constellation style yeah that has the like star chart and stuff in the background. like There is some really cool stuff in here for these alt frames, but it is kind of the funny because it it is still a lot of overload. and i mean I will also say that between the the all of the product coming out with foundations, it is something like a thousand new cards.
00:48:35
Speaker
yeah Well, I think the the number of new cards is a lot smaller, but yeah there's, there's, sorry. it's a sohar Yeah. Yeah. Well, and and we have the situation again, where it's like, all right, I'm at, you know, card kingdom or some other, you know, website trying to order cards. Here's a brand new card I'm looking for. I type the name and there is six versions of this card. Yeah. and There's 133 new cards in foundations.
00:49:07
Speaker
And Jumpstart has 29 new cards. So we're talking, you know, 160 new cards ye between the two sets. Yeah, there's a few more new cards than that in Jumpstart too. Just the the way they broke it up on Scryfall here, there's 29 in the new cards.
00:49:27
Speaker
But then the new art new cards guest artists are also new cards, 27 new cards that we have. I just noticed that because when I was looking through this earlier, I'm like, I know there was a legendary goblin that's going straight into Zata and I don't see it. And then I scrolled down and found yeah like the card down there. But even there, still, that's only less than 60 at a jumpstart. It's 200 total between the two sets.
00:49:58
Speaker
which is less than a normal set these days. But this is a beginner product too, so that is a lot for, I mean, compared to how many new cards we used to get in core sets. Which used to be zero. It was zero until 2013 and then they started printing a small handful of them.
00:50:17
Speaker
yeah well and By the time we got to the last few core sets, I think they were about half new cards. and have they talked and I've not read any of the like Wizards coverage talking about this set. Have they talked about um the monetization side of it? Because that was part of why they when they added new cards into the core sets, they talked pretty openly about The fact that the original, like the concept of the core site was very helpful for standard. Do you have these cards that would be, you know, available? They're like, but nobody wants to buy these cards. So you can't sell the rooster packs. So we have to do something to sell the rooster packs. I mean, I think there's always that problem, right? Like they're, they're not going to talk about it. Okay. I mean, I mean, you were saying wizards themselves. They did then. Well, they did then a little bit. They did then. Um, I think with the.
00:51:10
Speaker
I would say the way things have been. it That's fair. You haven't seen, I don't think there would to be any, and I think that's why they're trying to distance this from a core set too. They're trying to market it. This is something different. Well, and, and course sets were part of rotation, which was a weird thing too. And this being legal for five years. Hey, that's, I don't know. Maybe that's friendly. That seems to me as someone who doesn't care about standard and doesn't pay attention of it anymore.
00:51:40
Speaker
That seems like a solid way to just be like, start here. You can use these cards for five years and so five years. Right. And it's like, it, the question is going to become how impactful will they end up being? Um, it's an interesting question, right? Like that's, you know, and you know, how much course that's actually come into play is though it, it then does create the, like the the legality thing is, is.
00:52:03
Speaker
where I could see there being concerns. But they have better internal numbers about about stuff. And kitchen table people aren't going to care about legality. And by the time someone has decided that they care about playing standard or playing whatever, maybe they're in franchise enough to pay attention to which sets are legal and which aren't. I don't know. And I think that the idea is that you almost are starting people off in a way that you can grow from this to then starting to teach them about legality, right? Yeah. Yeah. So it' it's from from what I've seen, and and I'll admit it it isn't. I haven't done a super deep dive on this on the set yet. But from what I've seen, it looks like it is
00:52:48
Speaker
used to to to say the thing, it looks like a good foundation for this. It looks like a good, a good place to start players. Because like you say, you, we have a specific box that says by this box, it has pre-constructed cards that we have built for new players to play. There's a lot of cats in it. There's cats in it. Yeah. There's goblins. And let's be honest, yeah there's a goblin deck. There are no goblins. Yes. They, they hit all those creature types, all those main things.
00:53:19
Speaker
There's even the one mythic rare Eldrazi to make people go, what the hell is this? And if they decide they want to go deeper in the game, they can discover there's a whole world there. um and And like I like mentioned earlier, in both products, there are good, solid legends to go into Commander if they want to go that direction. ah Including in the Jumpstart product has multiple um monocolored legends that have a hybrid activation, making them two color commanders and teaching about hybrid man and teaching about hybrid man.
00:53:57
Speaker
I mean, what's what's cool. So over the next couple of weeks, we're going to actually dive into the cards themselves, because I do think there's a lot to look at here um for all the cards. But I i i really wanted us to to just be realizing that, I don't know, I even think it for for us and i I don't, I'm not going to speak for you too, but I know that my relationship has been changing with magic and the UB announcement is just something that could further change that.
00:54:23
Speaker
Yeah, it is great to think about what my foundational pieces are. Like, what is it about? What is it about the either the community? You know, like I'm i'm going well beyond magic is ah the actual card game at this point and sets and everything else. But like, what are the foundational elements that I need to to to want to stay as connected as I have been to this community for, you know, like, let's be honest, we just got back from Vegas and I could not believe how many people were there.
00:54:51
Speaker
Yeah, there was so many people in Vegas. There was. I will say I did not feel as overwhelmed as I have at some of the bigger events in the past. It felt like there was it was spread out in some ways. But then when we were looking for a place to play on Saturday, we could not find a place to play. The command zone was completely filled on Saturday. Yes.
00:55:14
Speaker
And I didn't feel cramped in where I felt on top of each like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah. And there was there was open tables and other areas, but the other areas weren't set up to find people for a commander game either. Really made me think of the old days when we would just get a group and start playing and then they would come along and move us. But yeah, but I mean, but there was a lot of people there is there is a lot of people that are still playing magic. um And I.
00:55:42
Speaker
i I fully admit I don't really this was like, you know, I was funny as I did play. I think I ended up at the weekend of commander, I think four games. I did the unknown event. That's more magic than I've played in six months easily. And so if I'm not going to be playing as much, what are what are the things that are going to keep me Connected because I do have a lot of my social you're just waiting for the Lego set now. I am waiting for the Lego Like crossover D and&D sky ship weather light with the squee mini-fig. That is what I am waiting for Alex I sat on the con floor dressed as squee and Built a batmobile ah Lego batmobile. You also drove a power wheels around us to squeak. I did also drive the power wheels
00:56:36
Speaker
You know what? That is fantastic. We need to make people's lives a little more surreal if they come to a magic convention and they happen to stumble upon a guy building Lego dressed as a goblin. I think that that's going to enhance their experience. And if Lego wants to get at me at a collaboration. I can be found on blue sky at Hobbsq dot bullets gang dot something because you can have your own domains, apparently.
00:57:05
Speaker
Yeah, it's weird. This has been the goblin lore podcast. Thank you for listening. We can be found both on Twitter and blue sky at goblin lore pod. Check out our link tree for our discord and our discounts. We appreciate you listening and welcome feedback via social media or discord until next time podwalkers. Remember that goblins like snowflakes are only dangerous in numbers.