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Episode 242: See Jane... See Jane Play Magic
1 Playsin 25 minutes
Hello, Podwalkers, and welcome back to another episode of the Goblin Lore Podcast! While Hobbes and Taya were in Vegas, Taya sat down at a table for a random game. And there she met Jane (from Jane Plays Magic). As you do when playing Magic the two began to talk, they started to discuss their lives, their decks, their community. And from that chance meeting, this episode was born. An Episode that focuses on ways that we can build community.
We also finally have a Linktree with all of our discounts/resources
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As promised, we keep Mental Health Links available every episode. But For general Mental Health the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) has great resources for people struggling with mental health concerns as well as their families. We also want to draw attention to this article on stigma from NAMI's site.
If you’re thinking about suicide or just need someone to talk to right now, you can get support from any of the resources below.
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 988
- Veteran's can Press 1 at anytime to be taken to the Veteran's Line
- Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741-741
- International suicide hotlines: A comprehensive resource list for people outside the US.
- IMAlive: Click Chat Now to access a live online network of volunteers through instant messaging.
- TrevorLifeline, TrevorChat, and TrevorText (LGBTQ+ crisis support): 1-866-488-7386, or text “Trevor” to 1-202-304-1200
- Trans Lifeline (US): (877) 565-8860
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Opening and closing music by Wintergatan (@wintergatan). Logo art by Steven Raffael (@SteveRaffle)
Recommended
Transcript
Welcome to Goblin Lore Pod
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Speaker
are
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okay
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are
00:00:30
Speaker
Hello Podwalkers and welcome to another episode of the Goblin Lore Pod.
Guest Introduction: Jane Plays Magic
00:00:35
Speaker
Tonight we're going to be talking about building community in Magic with our special guest, Jane Plays Magic. We met at Magic on Vegas and ah had a good time and wanted to invite him on the show. And so, yeah, my name's Taya, pronouns are she, her, they, them.
Community Building Through Podcasts and Discord
00:00:54
Speaker
And this week's question is, what do you do personally to make a space for community? I mean, I think the obvious answer is to podcast, but that's too easy. so I'm going to go with the Discord community around the podcast. And that's something that I am very actively involved in. I'm posting memes. There are a lot ah posting um art stuff and just active in the mental health channel. So for me, that is kind of where I create a community around magic now that I'm not on Twitter and I'm not super active on Blue Sky because I've been trying to avoid most of the news.
00:01:36
Speaker
But that's, um, the discord is really important to me and that's kind of where I build my community.
Engaging Online with Hobbs Q
00:01:43
Speaker
Let a Hobbs handle it. ah Well, before I give it off to Hobbs, yeah, we're down Alex tonight. yeah are den ols He's recovering from surgery. Uh, wish him the best. Hope he ah feels better.
00:01:56
Speaker
Hopefully he'll be back soon. But, uh, yeah, Hobbs, why don't you take him here? Yeah. I was trying to think about this. So hi everybody. My name is Hobbs found everywhere on the internet since 1998 under the name Hobbs Q. Uh, my pronouns are he, him, and I think I just post a lot. Like that's what I do. Hobbs, you do so much to build community. You do. Well, I mean, yeah, you do a better day. MTG you do.
00:02:25
Speaker
terminally online posting. Yeah, I would say be being terminally online is probably one of my my best characteristics, I guess. I guess that's one thing we could say. But yeah, I mean, i i I do my best to post questions that I might have for people. So posting questions just, you know, what is something that you're grateful for? Tell me something even non-magic related because i find it I find that it's important to learn those pieces about each other.
00:02:54
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I talk about mental health. i'm I'm willing to talk about not only my own struggles with mental health, but just, yeah, anything to do with it, trying to cut down on stigma. But I think that's the the biggest thing that I do to build community. the The one other area that it just occurred to me to think of is is is like charity events. So I feel like that's the one other area that's really important to me for building community is looking at how we can kind of get back, just how I'm getting involved.
00:03:22
Speaker
Great.
Jane's Community Events for Nerds and Sex Workers
00:03:23
Speaker
And our guest tonight is ah Jane Plays Magic. Would you like to introduce yourself? Absolutely. Hello, everybody. I am Jane Judge from Jane Plays Magic. And if you want to see me on the Internet slinging spells and raising hells, ah go to at Jane Plays Magic anywhere you want to watch magic content. And I really love both of your answers to this question.
00:03:45
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Because I think they were about creating kind of non-magic connections with people who you play magic with. And that's what I think is really important. I actually host a lot of community events here, just in my local community of nerds and sex workers and people who love to play magic online.
00:04:01
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And I think that's something that I have really learned is you can create a magic event or host a draft or whatever. But if you want to create real connections between people, what you need to do is get them to talk about stuff other than magic and realize that the people across the table from them are just, you know, other nerds who have a shared interest. And it's really actually easy to talk to them and easy to create that connection and community.
Creating Inclusive Magic Experiences
00:04:25
Speaker
Yeah, and that's what we're going to be talking about more in depth this evening. And yeah I think ah Jane brings a lot of unique perspective in that area. and I hope so. I forgot to say my pronouns as well, which I share. So yeah, so building a community around what we do, looking to ah kind of bring people closer together,
00:04:53
Speaker
ah You know, tell me you you just gave kind of brief overview, but talk to me a bit about, you know, how you do that or how you brought these things together in your life. Yeah. Well, when I first started playing magic, not a whole lot of my friends like IRL sort of played magic. And so my experience was a lot of the time playing with new people.
00:05:15
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teaching them how to play, giving them their first 1v1 experience, and then their first commander game.
Diverse Representation in Magic Content
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And so I have kind of a lot of experience onboarding you know my friends, which are mostly like women and queer people, who don't have a lot of exposure to magic. I mean i know a lot of people were playing magic back in the 90s, but to me, it's new. I've only been playing for a couple of years.
00:05:37
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And so like all of the fresh stuff that Magic has been coming out with from like Bloomberg to Dustmorn, it's been really appealing to these communities. And so I've been able to really introduce people to Magic, and then there's something more for them to go do. They can go on Arena and like draft the latest sets, which are things that appeal to them. And like they can go to Magic stores, and the sets that are being drafted are really fun right now. Bloomberg was such a good set for the queer community. I love it.
00:06:06
Speaker
Well, yeah. So, and besides that, you also do streaming. What what kind of games do you stream? Yeah. Okay. So this is something else that I was kind of looking for in my community. I love to watch like Magic Games, Commander especially. And so I was going on YouTube and looking up like, you know, people playing Magic. And it's a lot of, you know, men sitting across the table from three other men playing Magic, which is great. And I watch a lot of those podcasts as well.
00:06:35
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But I saw some people who are really like carving out space in these communities, like I don't know, scribe babies, good luck, highfi or have fun. um I don't know, Commander at Home, Elder Dragon Hijinks, like all of these really cool commander podcasts, which are sort of women run and like them created. And they're kind of really intentionally having on guests that support that piece of the community, which is a piece of the community that isn't often seen on like magic stuff.
00:07:04
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you know Not all magic content needs to look the same, and I think that's really cool. So what I created was in Jane Plays Magic, an extremely casual kind of game where you can just come and sit at my kitchen table and like play with me and my friends. And that's sort of the vibe that I want to curate and the sort of thing that I want to create and what I wish you know more other people were playing so that I could watch more of it.
00:07:27
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Yeah, I really appreciate, um, kind of bringing people together to get to play stuff. And I, I, a big fan of a lot of the content you mentioned. A lot of what I watch is femme led or femme created my most common shows I watch are, um,
00:07:49
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Elder Dragon Social Club from LRR and ah Elder Dragon Hijinks. Those are my two big stream shows that I watch. It's so
Magic Beginnings and Deck Preferences
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much fun. yeah the you know and its Building that community takes time and effort. and You said you haven't been doing this very long. No, we're coming close up on our one year mark. and I'm really honestly amazed at how much the community has turned out for us. and I really appreciate it a lot.
00:08:19
Speaker
And how long? You said you've been playing magic a few years. When did you get started? Yeah, I started about two years ago. We had just finished up the pandemic, but we were still staying at home a lot. And um my partner used to play magic. And we've had this briefcase that we have lugged around every time we moved. And every time we moved, I tried to convince them to get rid of it. And I'm very glad we never did. But they ended up having a couple of just like 60 card decks that we could play against each other.
00:08:47
Speaker
And then we started branching out because they play very differently than I do. They play a lot of Selesnya and I, of course, love like Grix's evil plans. Yes. No, you're in the right place with Hobbs for that. I was like, I'm glad we got the right partner on the screen then in the past because it would have been a problem. I think you and Hobbs could probably talk just about Grix's for the rest of the days. I'm not a Selesnya fan either, but That's because I think they're a big cult. Well, you know, these things happen, cults happen. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah, I got really excited. We were playing a 60 card decks and I think the first piece of magic that really clicked with me was we played the mind versus might 60 cards. Oh, right. Yes. Yeah. I love the dual deck series when they used to have those. Those were great. They were a great intro product, too.
00:09:40
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It's a great way to get people into the game. And honestly, when my friends come over and they've never played before, that's what I sit down with is a set of dual decks. It's funny that you mentioned that because we've been talking a lot lately, you know, our most recent episodes just because of the the timing, everything was been around foundations. Yeah. Myself, Alex and Taya are are Let's say older, I think that's a nice way to put it. We are we are older older folk, ah both in age and also having just played for a very long time. And we were kind of talking about, right, that, you know, whereas our preferred style of play these days is 60 card, I mean, sorry, it's like EDH. It's really bad for teaching people. And there wasn't, you know, after those kind of dual decks went away, there hasn't been great teaching tools.
00:10:29
Speaker
for a new player. I think they really did a good job with foundations basically making those dual dicks again. Yeah. And they're all really balanced to play against each other. Yeah. Our last three episodes have been about foundations. We've all been kind of gushing over it. There were so many legendaries to talk about and so many cool mechanics and everything that we kind
Magic Storytelling and Formats
00:10:52
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of I think beat that horse to death and then raised it from the dead and did it again, some Golgari value.
00:11:03
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But the, yeah, yeah so yeah, dual decks are a great way to, you know, get an, I kept a set for a longest time. I kept a set of all the ones that I had ready to play, but Then they're so tempting to tear apart and turn into commander decks. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I did the tell the first commander deck I built myself came from another one of the sealed products. It's no longer around. the I built a sliver deck out of the premium deck series, so i silver premium deck series. So that was another idea that it didn't last as long as stool decks. did They only released three of them, but
00:11:46
Speaker
You know, I think that was another good, like it was a 60 card kind of introductory thing because they were very tightly themed. ah Yeah. I mean, the burn one was absolutely amazing too. I mean, it was good. It was a reprint of chain lightning. It was a great intro to just straight up burn, which yeah i is a great place to learn. I mean, that's basically how I learned. So not shocking anyone once again.
00:12:12
Speaker
Yeah. The, the dual decks that I played initially, the mind versus might ones have the unspeakable in them, which has the like three card ritual. So you have to have all three cards in your hand and play them and then you can go play it for free out of your deck. I don't know that you get to cheat. I was like, wow, you need to break the rules of magic. I love this. and I already get to learn how to cheat at a game.
00:12:35
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but Yeah. Yeah. So many of the dual decks have that kind of beautiful intro to a mechanic like the graveyard mechanics
Magic in Broader Communities
00:12:42
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one or even there's like an obnoxious one that's just like big demons. It's really fun. Yeah. You know, those were really I mean, even going back to the first one, the elves versus goblins. I mean, that was just a classic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's been around since the beginning of the game, the idea. But yeah, they ah But Omnixlist one was a lot of fun. I did like that one. Yeah, that one's getting torn apart for an excellent demons commander for sure. But yeah, so you talked a little bit at at the intro question about, you know, local community and specifically mentioned, you know, community around sex workers. And so how have you you brought kind of magic out to a wider community that might not normally experience it?
00:13:33
Speaker
Yeah. Oh my God. Sex workers are nerds. Yeah, no. We all play D and&D. We all play some kind of role playing game because we love to get silly and play with each other. And these kind of games are like a space where you're allowed to do that and a space where you can invite people over and it's not a weird thing. And like they'll do a silly voice with you sometimes.
00:13:55
Speaker
I think that's really important. Even just like, I don't know, the concept of adult play. Like as a sex worker, I get to play all day long. I get to write stories, I get to play in narratives, I get to create characters. And I think a lot of people don't have those kind of outlets. You know, we all did theater in high school or something like that. And you can feel the magic of the theater, the magic of playing pretend it's real.
00:14:19
Speaker
Yeah, I need my my TTRPG fix on a regular basis or yeah I start to get really cranky. oh Three-year campaign I'm in is just getting ready to wrap up and I'm like, okay, what's next? i can't I can't not play after this is done. What are we doing afterwards?
00:14:39
Speaker
I also got, from dm yeah, no, well, we actually have, we have two different people that are both DMs that are like, I want to run my campaign. it's I've got a dearth of DMs to choose from actually. I'm kind of lucky in that respect. Wow. So rare yeah, it is. It is. Yeah. i'm though I'm the only like dedicated player in the group right now. ah No, I'm looking forward to whatever's next. But yeah, I got a little a little weepy-eyed the other day when I was realizing that my character is going to be 1,000 years old and alone because she's never looking past the next adventure and doesn't form any long-term bonds and doesn't settle down. And I'm just like, I feel so bad for her. She's miserable. D&D is beautiful, too, because you get to go talk about your problems with friends.
00:15:33
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's so important. It really is. I mean, it sounds kind of silly, but that's real. It isn't. I mean, i I don't think it is. I mean, I'm biased, but I mean, ah it we actually the the the hospital that I work at has a ah D and&D group for for mental health. We actually have a therapy group that that specifically is built around more more intentionally, right? Like there's always the room for yeah for friends to vent and talk about it. But but using the gameplay of D and&D, and I think there's you know there's ways that I've talked about using this with magic, using that gameplay as a way to you know be actual therapy. And and even the the when we do the the or do the
00:16:16
Speaker
the ah therapy group, it actually has a post process that's intentional to be therapeutic. And so I think that there's always that room for, you mentioned theater kids, I was definitely a theater kid. I was an improv kid. And and there's you know there's always room for play and for acting in therapy that we completely underutilize, just flat out, we just underutilize. And I love seeing people do it in here and do it with therapy and do it with, them well, with things like even magic, but yeah. Yeah. It's so much easier to talk about your problems when you depersonalize them a little bit and you talk about a tiefling who's going through them instead. Yeah. I mean, I don't know how many trans people work through their gender issues by playing D and&D, but it's like most of the ones that I know. Yeah.
Digital Magic Communities
00:17:10
Speaker
yeah what you look like and being able to play with that in like a digital space playing, you know, I don't know, Baldur's Gate 3 or something like that, or like in a space with your friends where they look at it and they acknowledge you as that person and talk to you as if you were that. You get to try out a bunch of different things, see what feels right for you.
00:17:31
Speaker
yeah Huge Baldur's Gate 3 fan. yeah We've talked about that on the show quite a bit. yeah i've been I'm like, do I really need another mono red deck, but I want to build Karlaak because she's my favorite. She's so pretty. What do you put in another? How many do you have? I have two already. I have Emudane and Doretti.
00:17:56
Speaker
So very different styles and carology you know, you're exploring all of the possibilities of mono red. I love this. Yeah. Yeah, I would. I basically that would be my my agra creature mono red deck because the other ones are artifacts and ah spells. So it could be a whole different deck. Just.
00:18:20
Speaker
I mean, i have I have my tattoo. I have my mountain tattoo. So, you know. It's so beautiful, the stained glass one. Thanks. Yeah. You know, I'm a red mage through and through. and I love it. I play is it, but mostly for the blue.
00:18:38
Speaker
We are definitely going to be friends for a long time. I'm in the middle of building a Pendragon deck. And of course, the very first time I'm building a Pendragon deck, it's, it's, it's ah like Goblin Electromancer. And it's just straight up. is so Format of the month. I haven't really heard much about it since I'm not on Twitter.
00:18:59
Speaker
film part but I mean, it's been a couple of months now. I know that, you know, in Vegas, people were starting to play it. I was seeing some interest. But basically, it's a the idea is you're you any any common creature and a legendary equipment because the idea is you're becoming King Arthur. Oh, wow. Your sword in the stone. So I am pairing goblin electromancer with glam drink.
00:19:24
Speaker
So Gandalf sword, which gives plus one plus so and first strike for each incident or three in your graveyard. oh wow Yeah. And then if you feel combat damage, you can cast an instant or sorcery with mana value less than or equal to the damage that you dealt. So, yeah, crimes out here. I love it. Yeah, lots of crimes. So I'm trying this out. Right. And i I think that is one thing that is, you know, it's funny because we're talking about like even within magic, the different communities. And one of the things that's important to me is to just become exposed to lots of different groups within magic.
Dynamics and Diversity in Magic
00:20:03
Speaker
And so one of the people who's been a big supporter of the cast and is is in the Goblin Lore discord has done a lot of work within our discord. Draco Lucien is on their kind of like their mini rules committee. And then so is Onion Bug. And they're both people that I've kind of really have made these connections with.
00:20:23
Speaker
and haven't gotten to play a lot of magic with. So getting to do that within their kind of this format that they're very passionate about. I love getting to play offshoots or play in other formats, other than just what I'm used to, then my strike just commander because i I get to see what other people are passionate about. And a that's a big part of a magic for for me. Yeah, just how can I learn about groups within groups within groups? And we've talked about that even with just our podcast that You can love magic and be tied so closely to magic community and have community building and literally never even play the game. It's not even a requirement. yeah I haven't played a game of magic since Vegas. oh I don't know if I have either. no think back Since I was a an ambassador, that's what they're called, for foundations, I did play in a boxing league. you did Yeah, you got to play boxing league. I played like two games.
00:21:21
Speaker
ah so I think there's all these ways to just go and play magic with people like at this boxing league or even if you just like show up to a Friday Night Magic draft or whatever. You just like sit down and the person across from you will talk to you.
00:21:36
Speaker
I don't know, I'm a very chatty person. So I sit down across from somebody and I learned about their life story and when they started playing magic and their favorite set and all that. And that's while we're sitting down and shuffling. You get to really make a connection with a new person every time you sit down and shuffle. And at MagicCon, I met you guys. I just like sat down at a random table and said hello. And these cool ass people wanted to play a game with me. And that's what magic really gives you, this opportunity to go say hello to random people and then have something to talk about with them.
00:22:06
Speaker
but You like blue for the interaction, as you're saying. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Who's going to be in a wizard battle with me? That's what I need, Taya. That's a good reframe right there, Taya. The interaction, that's what it is. yeah oh i i did not When I first came back to start playing Magic again in 2012, of course, all these terms that had been invented in the meantime,
00:22:30
Speaker
Or, you know, I just had no exposure tubes. I didn't play competitively before I stopped playing Magic. But, you know, it was like people were calling my Jessica Hexproof, not interactive. And I'm like, I'm interacting with your face constantly. I don't know what the putting a bunch of enchantments on this creature and then running it straight into your face. i i mean that's you have You have problematic permanence on the board and player removal is a form of removal. It's interaction.
00:23:11
Speaker
You know, my creature's unblockable, it's text-proof. You know, you're not going to be doing much about it, but, uh, yeah, you know, I'm interacting. You're an unstoppable force of diplomacy. Yeah.
00:23:27
Speaker
That sounds like a great deck title, actually. I was just thinking that it was very perfect for Pendragon since Arthur believed in might makes right. And that's kind of just where we're at right now.
00:23:39
Speaker
I see that that's a good title for a ah just a group hug deck group hug slash group slug deck, you know. Yes. So mine is called mine is called group therapy. Yeah, which is appropriate for you. Because it's for being and and also it's not just about yeah, there's times when you're not going to like what's going on, which is very much group therapy to me.
00:24:05
Speaker
so I love it so much. Every deck creates this little narrative that you get to take people through. And I don't know, you get to like decide decide and like curate that energy that you expose the group to. And you can decide whether that's a force of good or a force of evil or something in between. you Good evil, these are just terms. They're just thrown around.
00:24:30
Speaker
you know ah Yeah, it's a... There's a lot though. You know, what, what do you say we can do to be more intentional on building that community outside of, you know, you talk about just show up at Friday night magic. You talk to somebody, you play a game, but you know, how do you bring it beyond that? Yeah. I think here's the thing. I don't know a single person who has started playing by just showing up to a Friday night magic.
00:25:00
Speaker
I think you have to trap them in your house. My strategy is always invite people over for dinner and then casually suggest a magic game because I think it's a really hard thing to commit to
Creating Welcoming Spaces for New Players
00:25:11
Speaker
in public, especially, you know, you're going to have to ask questions and embarrass yourself and there's going to be math or, you know, problems that you don't understand and you're going to need someone to walk through them. And so I think the most important thing is just being somebody who who someone knew would be comfortable asking, like, what does this word mean? Or how does this interaction work? And there's not really, and it's not really the fault of like a Friday Night Magic space, but there isn't really that person there. There's sort of a community of all of these people who already know each other and know all the little lingos and words in the shared language.
00:25:48
Speaker
And I think just stepping into a magic space without knowing that language is really, really hard and really scary. But the thing that we have now, which is so beautiful, is the internet. like You can step into a comfortable private space with people who you know will be patient with you and who will answer your questions and who won't hop off the call and talk about how stupid you were.
00:26:10
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And you can find the community you want to, because there's, you know, there's discords for every kind of play style, for every kind of community. You know, it's, if you know what you like, it's out there. Sometimes finding it is the hard part, but I think that's where it comes from. Talking to people and knowing people and finding out, you know, I like hanging out with this person. what Where do you hang out? You know, online, where do you play?
00:26:40
Speaker
know, what's, you know, what do we do together to, you know, make this more fun? And it was like, my play group right now mostly started as playing at a friend's house, doing drafts and You know, like a lot of groups do, starting doing it like every couple of weeks, and then people got busy and dropped off, but a group of us still, we still meet up at the game store, you know, on a lot of Thursdays to play Commander, even if we're not meeting regularly to do drafting and stuff anymore. So, you know, there's there's still that bit of community together, and we still we start all on a Discord together and talk a lot about magic and stuff, but even if we haven't gotten together to play in a while,
00:27:28
Speaker
Yeah, Discord is so good for keeping these kind of communities going and together and getting them excited about new stuff. I remember we were hosting Commander Nights every other week at our house, and we only have two tables in our house, and it ended up being the kind of thing where too many people were showing up. So I had to create a Discord so that only eight people would show up at my house. Hobbs hobb would know nothing about too many people showing up at his house. That's weird. I guess that's something that I do as community building.
00:27:58
Speaker
yeah Yeah, you host the barbecue whenever there's something in Minneapolis. Yeah, like whenever I people are in town, I like to I like to host. I really my wife loves to host. We like to cook. It feels very Midwestern. And I'm like, I love it. I'm sorry for it. Very Southern California boy by nature. But I've now been here for I guess this is the longest anywhere I've lived outside of growing up in California. But Like i wait with the last time we we're here i i actually realize i did not play a single game that night of my cookout until. Probably ten or eleven o'clock at night and it's just because i was cooking for people i was walking around hosting people and. There like you said i just put it out there we had done it a couple of times and you don't realize just i guess the impact.
Role of Hospitality in Community Building
00:28:42
Speaker
and i just you know You don't realize how many people Hobbs knows until you see them all together in one room. I'm like, there's a bunch of famous people in here. but you know when When BDM was serving drinks, I think was probably one of the most surreal moments. Exactly. I was going to mention BDM specifically. ah Yeah. that but he He literally was mixing drinks in my am i am i like kitchen.
00:29:06
Speaker
Yeah, and it was just this world of just i I, I like having people at my house. I did not realize that 80 something people would show up to my house over the course of an evening. And it I think it would have been even worse if it hadn't rained. Yeah. But it's just I want my it is I want spaces that people can can gather and like I said, I think it is that whole idea it doesn't even have to be about magic. Yeah.
00:29:33
Speaker
I spend most of my days, as we said, terminally online. And as Taya was mentioning, I haven't played a game of magic outside of a couple of, you know, boxing league games and and since since Vegas. I still talk about magic or magic players every single day. Yeah. Because there's so much more to it than just the actual playing of the game.
00:29:58
Speaker
I don't know, I had friends who, I had a friend who got into magic, like really into magic, like playing online all the time. But I don't think he's ever played in person. He like locked a printer and made up proxies and like got really into the whole thing. But like the kind of collecting part of it was what he was into. And yeah you know, that's it for some people.
00:30:18
Speaker
Yeah, art. I mean, you can you could literally just look. I mean, the fantasy art in this game is gorgeous and beautiful. And you could come to an event just to literally spend your entire time in line meeting. Oh, yeah. With how especially with how long the lines are now for the artist. I mean, the entire weekend doing nothing but standing in line for artists. It's way worse on my wallet, though. Yeah.
00:30:45
Speaker
Yeah, I i've bought two originals in the last month, so I know that it is bad for the wallet. They're worth it. But I couldn't pass up ah couldn't pass up lesbians and and muscle mommies, so I you know had to buy them. you You did have to buy them. if If you wouldn't have, they probably would have gone unsold, right? and They would have just sat there.
00:31:10
Speaker
Unappreciated, unloved. Unloved. Yeah. There's so many pieces of the community that you can just like throw money into to support like Goblin Podcast, who's always looking on, I believe. You can really make a big difference in creating these communities, even if you don't have the energy like Hobbs does to host 80 people in a night, which is wild and I love it, but it's a lot, a lot, a lot of work. But you can help facilitate these spaces with just a couple bucks to like your favorite podcast creator or community creator.
00:31:41
Speaker
Yeah, that easy yeah know especially with how many queer and marginalized creators there are in this community, there are plenty of places you can you know put your dollar that'll really help people out. Yeah. I know the nerds are hungry for a third space. I don't know if you're familiar with the concept of a third space.
00:32:00
Speaker
No, I am. You want to tell people about third space in case they don't. Yeah. So it's like you have your home and then you have your friend's house and you can hang out at either one of those places. But if you too want to hang out and have it be a little more low key and something that nobody is doing like work and cleaning their bathroom for, you need a third space to go and hang out. And third spaces where you can pay a few dollars and sit in a coffee shop or, you know, sit in a park for free.
00:32:25
Speaker
These spaces are kind of dwindling in our current society. And it's really, really important to be able to protect a space where you can go and show up for a commander night and you maybe don't pay anything if you pay $10 entry fee. And you can sit there with your friends all night and you're not expected to pay a lot of money just to exist in this space. I'm sure Hobbs didn't charge entry for the barbecue, but these kind of spaces are are so, so fragile. You should next time though.
00:32:49
Speaker
yeah ah punish Well, well yeah it be of was it's I yeah people actually reached out to sponsor it um just to make it where people could come. I love that. Have that expectation. Yeah. That there would need to, because I think that that is that that's one of those things that that. You served a lot of meat hubs. It was only like 40 pounds of. Tri-tip.
00:33:20
Speaker
a couple of trays of enchiladas and whatever else. its But either way, i the concept of third spaces is one that I'm very fascinated by. i So I work with with a lot of, do I work with veterans and I work with people with mental health and I work with a lot of people that really struggle with community reintegration. And the erosion of third spaces is is one of the things that gets talked about kind of a lot, I would say, among providers because you're trying to find ways to help people re-socialize that maybe don't have the resources.
00:33:51
Speaker
yeah And it is very true that even just the concept of going to them to like sit at the mall is is been frowned upon and and especially among teenagers. Right. Like laws actually enacted to stop quote unquote loitering or going. And I mean, I.
00:34:09
Speaker
I'm a child of the, you know, the the bygone era of I was a latchkey kid, and my parents didn't know where I was. But we weren't kicked out of these spaces, right? You know, we could just go and and exist.
Third Spaces and Digital Alternatives
00:34:20
Speaker
And those are less and less every year. yeah They're not there. or the mu sitting at the library playing rooms game Yeah,
00:34:30
Speaker
yeah like libraries are you go support your public library, by the way, as we're talking about this, it's one of the few third spaces that kind of do exist. But like coffee shops, you know, there'll there'll be things to like make it uncomfortable for people to want to stay at certain ones or stay for a certain amount of times. As you were saying, with capitalism, you got to have that turnover. You got to get people in and out. And it's a really sad thing that I think that that you get exposed to a wider viewpoints and wider range of people by third spaces and and online could be a quote unquote third space, except
00:35:07
Speaker
I don't know. they're they're It becomes difficult then if you you you don't have access to that or you can't reach out to that group. Third spaces start revolutions, you know? It's true. And it's just a concept that I would love to hear. in People, if you're listening to this, to let's talk about this online and talk about third spaces. Because without magic community, and I think this is something I've discussed, you know i I definitely come from an era of a giant shift in the magic community in terms of the presence of queer creators and marginalized groups.
00:35:40
Speaker
and without having access to either events or places that those people felt that they could be, I think I would still be and somebody that had a very non-diverse friend group that I would not be as happy with. Yeah. I mean, if you look at if the attendance, say from like the first GP Vegas's from the modern masters releases,
00:36:04
Speaker
to the Vegas con we just had now the amount of women and amount of queer visibly queer people there is gone up a hundred fold in a decade. I did not feel incredible gay ass games. It was amazing. It is. I did not see anybody at this magic con wearing a shirt that said cool story babe why don't you make me a sandwich. I did see that at my very first ever GP Matt Vegas, the very first one that they did of these series in 2013. It was noticeable, but nobody said anything to this person. Right. They felt comfortable to walk around a magic, the gathering convention wearing that. And I would, I would like to think that they would feel at least awkward if they did it now. Yeah. I would hope that somebody would pull them aside or, or a judge would be like, no, just no, not here.
00:37:00
Speaker
Like maybe be able to have that conversation about why it's not a good thing. And like you said, walking into MagicCon Vegas this year, that is, you know, Taya, you and I talked about it, right? Just you and I have been to a lot of them in Vegas and in other places over the years and the shift is is is is very noticeable. That's so crazy. This is my first one. And I was like, wow, why haven't I been doing this forever? But yeah yeah maybe I just came in at exactly the right moment.
00:37:29
Speaker
I mean, it's been the last five years have been pretty good, but yeah, it changed. It really starts shifting. And then just this year, though, it was especially, uh, especially noticeable just how much was there. Uh, yeah, a decade ago, it was, it was all, you know, white men. That was like it, you know, that was the whole community pretty much, you know, like.
00:37:58
Speaker
Good luck high five was just getting started around then. ah They were like the first big femme led ah podcast. You know, there were a few players that were starting to, you know, do well at events enough that there was somebody visible that, you know, somebody that looked like you, if you were a woman player, it was still small. Yeah.
00:38:25
Speaker
I see magic, like the company Wizards of the Coast kind of intentionally leaning into this diversity too. Like, I don't know, they're hiring people like Girl Pod and like, uh, I don't know, all sorts of people to be their foundations ambassadors. They're hiring like now Joan Rivers to do coverage and stuff like that. And like, I think that's really cool. They've supported things like seeing yeah yeah ah that they supported things like the VML, yeah you know,
00:38:49
Speaker
one One thing that I was thinking of that was a big difference to me at this Magic Con was the the VML and bot birds of paradise space. Yeah, i they had a big space. It was great. you dave They've had like, you know, you said you haven't been to a con like that before. They usually got in a table if you're lucky. No, it was a whole zone.
00:39:10
Speaker
Yeah, it was a whole area. And I mean, here you talk about like kind of Wizards supporting this in general and putting out there is, you know, it's like right now where there's all the you know controversy around drag shows and stuff like that. They had an official drag event at Magic Con Vegas. Yeah. You know, that was one of the official parties this year. And you know it's just Wizards felt safe enough to sponsor that and felt, you know, put a put their money into doing it.
00:39:40
Speaker
Yeah, I really think queer people and women and, you know, minority groups and stuff like that have been playing magic a long time. They just haven't played at stores. Yeah, haven't played at stores. We weren't going to conventions. Yeah. You know, it took people and there weren't Oh, how peripheral people in the community like dark pack cosplay who were, you know,
00:40:03
Speaker
minority, visibly queer. ah But now they're on everything, you know, they're on the professor show all the time. Yeah. You know, it's, you know, an actual featured sponsored cosplayer by Wizards, right? Yeah. yeah Right. So And you do have people who are old timers in this community you like the professor who really support bringing those marginalized people into, onto their shows. And that's, you know, that's what it takes is people who have this big audience doing that to get, you know, get people more familiar with them and build their own stream or their own brand or whatever they're doing.
Progress and Struggles in Magic Representation
00:40:47
Speaker
Um,
00:40:49
Speaker
you know And I think that's something that people with a lot of privilege should be expected to do, now you know not just not just want them to do, they should be expected to do it. yeah Yeah, I really wanted to be a magic personality and do this thing, but my one thing that I was always worried about was I am a sex worker. That's my my day job, you know? Are people ever going to invite me onto shows? Am I fighting an uphill battle that will never be won? And then I watched Louis Stardust go on the professional show and I was like, oh, I could do this. People will me. That's cool. Yeah, ah there's room in this community for everybody and we built the community for ourselves.
00:41:31
Speaker
yeah Like I said, we were all, we were always here, you know, but then we came and in, you know, you got to give Wizards credit for this. They've provided a lot of support that's made this possible. But, you know, we came and took our part of the community because people don't give any, but you know, they don't give minorities anything. Minorities have to take it. You have to earn it twice as much, you know? Yeah.
00:41:58
Speaker
ah And with the magic of people willing to show up and be visible in that uncomfortable environment. Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, I know I talked about Louis Stardust just now, but I know she's received a lot of hate online and like had to weather that. And, you know, I appreciate the pioneers. Yeah. And I think that's true about anybody or, you know, any non white cis male tends to once they reach a certain threshold starts to draw a lot of negative attention. The internet can be horrible to you. You have to understand that. The internet is pretty horrible. A lot of things are horrible. It's the reminder that we've even had one of the, you know, a more extreme
00:42:44
Speaker
right wing person cut his teeth in the Magic community, including going after one of our most known cosplayers and women to first be that visible person at events with Christine Sprinkle. Yeah, she was one of the first really big cosplayers. I mean, the first big cosplayer, but also just a super visible femme person in magic. And the quartering went after her. I mean, Hamblee flat out did and that group of, you know, everybody that was part of the, you know, the Reddit groups that do not need to be named, but I'm just saying that his corner of the world
00:43:23
Speaker
attacked not shockingly. Anybody that came out in support of her, they were attacking the other women and trans people and non-white straight men because straight white men that defended her did not get the abuse that others did who were willing to speak up because they knew who to target. And it's, sorry, this is this is a topic that it's go to that that's make me very emotional. and just I was here, unfortunately, for all of this and yeah losing Sprinkles has been one of the worst things that's happened, I think, to our community. No, it has been. But, yeah you know, we've we've got to look now, though, like look at who won? I know. I know. I know. No, it it it's we won that battle. He's no longer a centerpiece in the community. Cosplay is bigger by far than it's ever been. Yes. Yeah.
00:44:20
Speaker
The best way to honor the legacy of people who created these spaces and paved the way for them to to exist is to enjoy them, to just be happy and carefree and have fucking fun playing magic.
Interactive Gameplay and Player Experiences
00:44:32
Speaker
There's our one F bomb, sorry. You did so well, you know.
00:44:42
Speaker
but ah it's you're You're exactly right though. It's, you know, let's have fun. but but That's the way to basically tell the haters to drop dead is, you know, we move past them and live our lives and, you know, queer joy is a magical thing. yeah It really, really is.
00:45:07
Speaker
I think there's something to be said in magic about learning to lose gracefully and like be okay with, I don't know, looking stupid in public or making a mistake or, you know, losing even out of no fault of your own and like being okay, accepting that as an outcome. Oh yeah. That was a good lesson for my son. He was, yeah he was a really bad loser at everything. And then the more we played magic, are like,
00:45:35
Speaker
There's four people in a pot of commander. Three people are gonna lose that game. You're expected to win percentage. Unless somebody's playing stacks and then everybody's a loser.
00:45:50
Speaker
ah But yeah, so, you know, it is good for that. It it teaches you how to face that. You look at, you know the world championships were at magic on vegas too and you've got 64 of the best magic players in the world but only one of them is going to win that the rest all have to lose and you know generally lose graciously and it could be through no fault of their own you know that's part of magic is that you know random variance is a big part of the game
00:46:26
Speaker
You could play flawlessly, which nobody does. You know, everybody makes game mistakes, but you could play flawlessly and still lose the game.
00:46:36
Speaker
Uh, which is one of the things that I think makes this game so great as a game itself too, is just that, you know, there's, it's not the same all the time. It's not chess. You know, there's no book.
00:46:53
Speaker
documenting, you know, the 200 best opening plays or whatever like that. I mean, everyone knows the best opening play is, you know, Island Sol Ring, Arcane Signet, but none of them can get that lucky. Sung to the tune of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, thank you Grem Kor for putting that earworm into my brain and making it into a sticker because I love it. I wasn't even familiar with that. Yeah, it's I don't have it with me, but it's like, it's like, a you know, like,
00:47:21
Speaker
turn one land then or what is it like like? I can't sing it because I don't have my arcane signets or sung the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
00:47:36
Speaker
Yeah, and if you want to be the most powerful opening move, that land has to be an island, right? Well, yeah, to really send a message. Yeah. Or in command or really, it's forest if you you know. I just died a little inside.
00:47:50
Speaker
yeah I know how, if we know how much you love green, you know. Yeah. And then I ended up in our boxing league playing as a freaking soul tie deck and realizing how powerful it was eating the vegetables, hated everything. yeah You want the three strongest colors altogether. Yeah. Well, when your final pack has a Muldiratha in it, in the box,
00:48:18
Speaker
So the decision is a kind of made for you. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't want to play the mean cards in my heart. You didn't want to. No, they made you. The packs told me I had to. Yeah. Yeah. I thought I made my one c simic bullshit deck so I could have a c simic deck and that's it. I don't need any more simic decks. See, I was as funny as I have never had a c simic deck and up until opening the Muldaratha, my options were Koma, Zatheova, or Zamone. I basically opened all the Simic bombs in the set. like the The box was telling me something. Wizards was trolling me. Almost as bad as the MTGO account. I love the way Limited forces you sometimes to just go completely outside of what you normally do. Yeah.
00:49:11
Speaker
Yeah, that is why my kid is not a good limited player. because He will just draft Rakdos no matter what's open or what's going on. Hey, they got the one strategy and it's working. Yeah.
00:49:27
Speaker
i heard one or My very first draft that I went to at Friday Night Magic I made a deck and it was just garbage because I had never made a 40 card deck.
Teaching and Community Growth
00:49:35
Speaker
I was like pouring over the little insert that they give you and trying to figure out how many lands to put in. And the person across from me just summarily kicked my butt in two games, done, not even a chance. And then we sat together for 20 minutes and they looked through all the cards that I had pulled and they told me like what I should be looking for and how some of my mechanics were competing against each other.
00:49:57
Speaker
And then I made that deck, we like put it together, and I went and I won my next one. And I just think that's really cool. In a limited environment, like it doesn't hurt to help your enemy, your opponent. no no It doesn't. yeah it's And it's just good community building to be that person. and And there's a difference between, oh, you did this, this and this wrong. You're dumb. And would you like me to take a look at your deck and see if I can help you? Yes. I did need the help. Oh, Lord, I needed it. but There's ways to do it. And I think that's where we get to talking about community building. Good community builders can ask that question. And offer that without the implications of you don't know what you're doing or
00:50:46
Speaker
You're a woman, so you obviously need help with fixing your deck, which yeah can way too often happen. He never told me like how to play my cards or you know tried to explain a mechanic I clearly understood. It was just like deck building that I was clearly having a struggle with that I had just never done. There's so many skills in magic that there's always something you can identify and help someone with in a way that's not condescending.
Wrap-up and Future Topics
00:51:12
Speaker
I, there's a reason I generally don't teach people how to play magic because I'm not very diplomatic about those things. No, I'm like, wow, this is obvious. How are you missing this? And I'm like, no, I'm just, I'm going to keep my mouth shut and I'm going to let someone much better at teaching that show this person how to play. And I'm going to be over here being my impatient red self.
00:51:42
Speaker
just be like, okay, you know, let me know when you're ready. And then I will hit you with a lightning bolt. But until then, you know, let's hope you can we can yeah find someone better than me to teach you how to. My best teaching tip, smoke a little weed.
00:52:00
Speaker
you know
00:52:03
Speaker
i'm I'm with you. You know, I will I do enjoy having a nice edible and ah relaxing as part of my play experience. Sadly, I don't play much at home, so I don't get to do that very often. oh yeah But ah yeah, it is and just quite nice. that would That would help me teach a lot, I think, if I was in that state of mind.
00:52:28
Speaker
I have introduced magic to my friends also as sort of like an IMDB test, you know, nice where you can tell what kind of personality you want based on what kind of cards you like.
00:52:39
Speaker
yeah
00:52:41
Speaker
Did you say what you would I'm sorry, did you I did you say like Myers Briggs? No, I am TV. Like the movie sort of thing. Isn't I read the movie website? Yeah. The internet movie database. Myers Briggs is what I meant. i thought they and Yeah.
00:52:58
Speaker
Sorry, that was like test works perfectly fine for IMDB too, though, because you've just asked someone what your favorite movies are. it's when i through ah That's really what I thought was going to be said. So that's why. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't mind me over here just like woo movies. Okay. talk about Movies now. What's your favorite movie then? And what colors do you play? Scary movie. um i ah All time.
00:53:27
Speaker
probably Casablanca and I am a Grixx's player. I could see it. My favorite movie is The Crow, which I would place as Mardu, so got at least one color, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, at least.
00:53:45
Speaker
I think my favorite movie would probably be as above so below, which is definitely Demir at least. okay exist So see, you just, you just need to add the passion. and Yeah. I have never seen that movie. Oh, it's so scary.
00:54:04
Speaker
I'm very claustrophobic. So all of that round in a cave stuff really gets me. Okay. Yeah, that would, that would get me as well. I love spooky summoning.
00:54:15
Speaker
So I think what we're hearing is that Jane needs to come back and we just need to do a color pie of movies episode. Color pie of movies. Yeah, we have not done that before. That would be. We have not done a color pie of things in a while. Anything in a long time. Yeah. If you want to come back, Jane, open invitation to come back on the show. Well, now you know what you'll be hearing me talk about next time. This has been the Goblin Lore podcast. Thank you for listening.
00:54:41
Speaker
We can be found both on Twitter and Blue Sky at GoblinLorePod. Check out our link tree for our Discord and our discounts. We appreciate you listening and welcome feedback via social media or Discord. Until next time, Podwalkers, remember that goblins, like snowflakes, are only dangerous in numbers.