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Tangent #4: Combat Jitters
24 Plays1 hour ago
In this episode we talk about some of the ins and outs of running combat in Savage Worlds, along with several tangents about GMing along the way.
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Transcript
Introduction to Tabletop Tangents
00:00:05
Speaker
And I'll look at Chris and I'll look at my Benny and I'll look at Chris and I'll look at my Benny again and I'll be like, please, sir, may I have some more?
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello, friends. Welcome to Tabletop Tangents, a podcast about running tabletop RPGs, writing stories, and the sometimes meandering paths we take in pursuit of creativity and inspiration.
Nervousness and Anxiety in Combat Scenarios
00:00:34
Speaker
Tangent number four, combat jitters.
00:00:44
Speaker
da All right, all right, all right. So we have hinted at this in previous episodes, but our friend Dot here is a little bit anxious about running combat in her Savage Worlds games.
00:01:05
Speaker
is that Is that true? It's true. Correct. Yes, that is a thing. And um we all were at one point.
00:01:18
Speaker
I don't know. We may still be. i would i would argue that... that Yes, that we still are. And the we meaning me. I mean, still absolutely get that way to a certain extent, for sure. I do a little bit too, because I do know that I have trouble keeping track of everything all the time.
00:01:41
Speaker
And when I'm playing among ah the the groups that I play among, um that adds a little bit of pressure to me because I do play with Shane and Simon and Daryl and, you know, those guys every week almost.
Forgiveness and Flexibility in Savage Worlds
00:01:59
Speaker
ah Not Savage Worlds every week, but right now we're playing Savage Worlds. And i play with Daryl all the time. And both of us have Sifston Mastery. Both of us know what we're doing enough to correct one another. And both of us make mistakes.
00:02:16
Speaker
And that's okay. that's part of that's That's part of this. I want to impress on everybody that you'rere it's okay to make mistakes. Savage Worlds is, in ah in a beautiful way, forgiving of the mistakes that you make, um especially in combat. I mean, with the rules in general, it's it's it's so well done that you can still get a great game out of a game that's not perfect.
00:02:43
Speaker
And your game is not going to be perfect. I think, too, I think it's very easy to ah retcon or
Engaging Combat Strategies
00:02:51
Speaker
redo stuff. You know, if you've if you've suddenly remembered something or if you remember something post but don't want to go retcon it, you can always either pick it up in the next round or just make adjustments on the fly or apply something, you know, down the road to compensate for something that you have missed. Yeah.
00:03:10
Speaker
yeah it's It's very easy to toss out a one round plus two or minus two. ah And one, it it works um and also satisfies most players who've either had their edge forgotten something glossed over.
00:03:28
Speaker
something glossed over Absolutely. one One perfect example of that is that what we, even we commonly miss is shaken. So it's, there's lots to do with shaken. We'll get to it a little bit of that later, but, but particularly if you've forgotten you were shaken.
00:03:44
Speaker
And you acted anyway. And in some cases, i'll we'll remember, oh, shoot, I was shaken. Let me just post, you know, after I've done all that action stuff, let me roll my spirit roll to see if I unshook. If I rolled and I succeed, great, everything's fine, right? If I roll and I fail, either, then I have to spend the many because my actions, it's done. I've already done it. So I'm like, well, I have the many. I spent the many to unshake and now everything's fine.
00:04:15
Speaker
Right. And that's just one of those examples of like, we can retcon this real fast um without really disrupting the flow of the game. But like you said, there are lots of ways to do that with, with Savage Worlds that are fairly intuitive. So it doesn't really make it too hard.
00:04:35
Speaker
What, what are your biggest hangups? Like what is your biggest fear when it comes to, to running this dot? Where, where, where are you at on that, on that scale? Combat specifically.
00:04:46
Speaker
ah i think for me, it has everything to do with keeping it interesting. Number one, because i am a player that doesn't necessarily gravitate towards combat as like the end all be all of things that I want to be.
00:05:07
Speaker
doing in a game session. Like I don't need to have combat in a game to feel satisfied in my experience with a game. a So can you, can you define interesting?
00:05:23
Speaker
um I worry about player engagement. So if it's, and this is going to sound just, just dumb honestly because the game itself is rolling tables or rolling tables rolling dice at a table i worry that going too far into combat without giving a level of pacing moving the adventure along doesn't come across as interesting to people
00:06:00
Speaker
You're looking, so you're looking for something slightly beyond an exercise in math. Yes. is Yes. Okay. Yes. Because... Like, how do how do you keep combat going without making it feel monotonous?
00:06:15
Speaker
that's That's what I struggle with, is round after round, like, you're going through the same motions. Yes, different things are happening, and that's where, you know, there can be some narrative and in investment that happens, but you're still doing the same actions, and...
00:06:39
Speaker
Unless i know like, in my heart of hearts, exactly what needs to happen with every round, i get stressed.
00:06:51
Speaker
So can I, let let me ask one one question before we move on on there. Because as a player, in the combats that you have participated in, in Chris's games, my games, other Savage Worlds games, have you felt that way?
00:07:10
Speaker
I'm going to plead the fifth. No, no, don't plead the fifth. Have you felt... don't feel like having my feelings hurt this episode. Yeah, I was about to say, oh! Have you felt that there's that that it's that it was monotonous?
00:07:26
Speaker
Um... Yes and no. I know so many of Chris's con games inside and out. So going through one of his con combats is like...
00:07:41
Speaker
ah reading a book for the 11th time. Right. i I know when i know when all of the jokes are going to land. I know when, you know, i know what jokes he's going to make and when. That's because they don't change. It's because they don't change. And that's OK. But like, I don't I don't want to point to that as the quote unquote monotony. Right. Like, that's not why I feel that way.
00:08:09
Speaker
It's looking around the table and seeing people take out their phones or those moments where things have slowed down dramatically because we're having to look up a rule. That scares the bejesus out of me.
00:08:26
Speaker
Like having to pause combat because there is a call into question on a ruling, a rule ruling. And everything comes to a screeching halt because then it's, you know, we've got to figure this out.
Timing and Objectives in Combat
00:08:43
Speaker
It stresses me because I don't I i don't want that to happen. i know that it will and it has. But I worry about being stuck in those moments and not being able to get my rhythm back.
00:08:59
Speaker
That's a separate problem, though. So the, I mean, getting stuck on a rule, we can, we can we can you know, cover that too. But but the monotony of combat, the the thing is, um I would say, first of all, as a GM, I relate to your worries.
00:09:18
Speaker
Right. I do. Because I'm like, well, yeah, we're in combat next round. You know, I've still got a bad guy here and blah, blah, blah. And they're still not getting through to their toughness and all this other stuff. And, you know, that's it. Yes. It's it's the last stand. It's that that last remaining bad guy or or, you know, a couple of dudes that are just punks that you want to get off the table. and it's like, OK, OK.
00:09:43
Speaker
Let's speed things along here. Then say, okay, I can see where this is going. You guys are going to finish this and you guys win. Done. When is the right time to do that?
00:09:56
Speaker
Honestly, i think I think the right time to do that is, it changes. It's a moving target. yeah it really And it depends. And really, it depends on... your interpretation of events.
00:10:08
Speaker
You know, there's been countless times when I've been running stuff and it's, it is, it's very clear where this is going. And so I'll finish out around, you know, and by the power of GM hand-waving, these guys are gone.
00:10:22
Speaker
You know, whether it's you just take them out or whatever, just because, yeah, it's time to move on. it's It's foregone conclusion. I've described. I feel like I've described enough. I feel like they've described enough when it comes to how they've taken out opponents.
00:10:38
Speaker
yeah we We can move on. Let's you'd light up our cigarettes, lay back, and then have a pillow talk and move on. buddy. I mean, it's you just you just it's it's really by feel.
00:10:50
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. But you can do it. That's my point. Yeah. Nobody is saying you can. In fact, you probably should do it. I do it all the time. You've got two scrubs left there or you're you know you're down to the last one. Sometimes you want to have that moment where you where the where you get the bad guy, the big bad, the wild card bad, the stalker in the Horizon Zero Gone game or whatever. Somebody wants to finish that thing off. But once that thing's gone and there's like three other watchers out there, who cares? Just take them off the table. You're done. Yeah. Yeah, I think I think that's part of the balance that I just haven't had enough experience to be comfortable with just doing that more. I get to a point where I mean, again, let's use my first adventure for an example. The end combat.
00:11:45
Speaker
Spoilers. um The end combat is that the there's ah a fraternity that turns into Minotaurs.
00:11:57
Speaker
And... I have like four minotaurs that are going up against the party. I wanted them to be hard as fuck. But by the time we went through like three rounds of combat, I was like, OK, I'm done now.
00:12:11
Speaker
I want to be done. Can we be done? Because you were beating up players or because why? Because I felt like they weren't getting through them fast enough. Mm hmm.
00:12:23
Speaker
And it was... no go on. It was a struggle. I'm fascinated. I know why you feel... I'm being stared at. No, no. I think I know why you feel this way, but I want you to finish your explanation.
00:12:38
Speaker
It was either i had juiced up these Minotaurs too much, so their combat level would way exceeded that of the players,
00:12:53
Speaker
Or i wasn't doing combat right. And I think it's that one. i think it's that I wasn't utilizing the combat tools that I could have been as effectively as I should have been.
00:13:12
Speaker
ah But I think that is a that's a sliding scale problem um ah because that's true of me as well. I do the same thing um even now because well well, actually, we'll keep going. I won't go back and blame somebody for why you have you're stuck on the whole three round thing. But.
00:13:32
Speaker
um
00:13:37
Speaker
opponents, when when I design opponents, I always will usually outfit them with far too many edges or far too many pieces of gear to to give them the proper, what I feel is the proper opposition to scare my players. I want to scare, I don't necessarily want to kill my characters, i want but I want to scare my players. I want them to feel the fear that, ooh, this might be this might be a bad a bad thing.
00:14:04
Speaker
so yeah I'll put all this stuff in there and I forget. Like I just, I finished off my deadlines campaign and they were fighting the main bad guy. And I had, I spent like a good two hours building this guy and combing through edges. And I'm like, yeah, he's going to be awesome.
00:14:22
Speaker
And then for like the first two rounds completely forgot two of his most important edges. Um, There was no turning back from that point. I had to just kind of try to remember moving forward.
00:14:33
Speaker
And turned out to be somewhat anticlimactic. He was finished off far too early. mean, my dice rolls didn't help because was rolling really, really bad that night. But he had edges make for that. But, you forget the heat the moment because...
00:14:50
Speaker
and yeah but you know you just you you forget you forget in the heat of the moment because Like you said, you want to have, you want to keep things exciting. Combat, you feel instinctively that it needs to move at a pace that is different from the rest of the game. And this is this is this is where I'm going to blame Shane, even though I know it's my own personal problem with this. This is this is actually where I struggle.
00:15:19
Speaker
The whole fast, furious, fun thing. um When I get into combat and it does go longer than three rounds, I suddenly don't feel like it's fast anymore. And and i now start to worry that things may be dragging, whether we're and we're not even necessarily looking up rules. It's just taking a while to get through it.
00:15:41
Speaker
um And it's it's really, it's a habit that I think I've gotten into. I've gotten that internalized in my own head that this is that this is a problem ah when it's really not.
00:15:52
Speaker
If that makes sense. I agree that it's not a problem. Okay. I think that all these things you guys have said are features and not bugs. And here's what I mean by that.
00:16:04
Speaker
When you build minotaurs or and did you build these minotaurs? Yes, I did. nice i I used, I used. You know, like 15 toughness and something crazy. and i have to go back and find it. But there was some like supplement book that I found that had Greek mythology for Savage Worlds. And then I also used ETU and I tried to like mash them.
00:16:29
Speaker
Sure. Awesome. I still have i still have the write up for this adventure, Tracy. I'll send it to you. Okay. Well, the thing is, like, okay, you you made four or whatever Minotaurs, and were they wild cars?
00:16:41
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, of course they were. Okay. so Yeah, that's right. That's coming back to me now. As an experienced Savage Worlds GM, I'm like, yeah, that's going to be rough for the players.
00:16:53
Speaker
It's going to be rough. And that's okay. This is a feature, not a bug. Here's the thing. If they're up against something like that, at that point, it's not about beating them.
00:17:05
Speaker
It's about either getting the hell out of there or accomplishing the real goal. Which is often something else. That's it. That's my point that I want to make to you right now is combat in Savage Worlds is not, I think it works best and not all the time, but almost all the time. It works best when there's an ancillary goal beyond just killing the other team.
00:17:34
Speaker
Yes. If they can get that goal done while the combat is happening, even if they don't kill everybody, then that's mission accomplished.
00:17:46
Speaker
And with four wildcard minotaurs that are built crazy, maybe they had another something to do. If they you know can hold them off for long enough to get that done, then they get the hell out of there.
00:17:59
Speaker
Right. That makes combat interesting. By automatically it does, even if it goes five rounds. Because there's strategy involved.
00:18:10
Speaker
How are we going to distract these things? How are we going to get what we need from across the room on the other side of where they are? Right. It becomes a strategy problem.
00:18:22
Speaker
and And it becomes much more interesting that way. Now, there are occasions when you just want to beat the bad guy. Like when when, okay, this is it this word you know it. In Horizon Zero Dawn, you're going to beat this stalker or you're going to die, right?
00:18:38
Speaker
And I almost kill players on a regular basis on that adventure. Not me. But um that's the point of it. That's the point of it. but but But usually there's, and I think it's best designed when there's something else that you're trying to do.
00:18:55
Speaker
Because that means that either you can go after them and kill them and and then do the thing, or you can do the thing while you're trying to deal with this problem.
00:19:06
Speaker
So yeah that's one thing I would say.
Teamwork and Role Dynamics
00:19:08
Speaker
And I would ah add to that if it is just a situation where you are just trying to beat the bad guy. I think the other thing that is going on there is the teamwork, the supporting the other other characters as they go to do things or the testing of the opponents to help those down the line. that That's where, and again, I guess that really kind of goes back to the whole strategy and tactics thing, but it's the goal then becomes when possible that teamwork, but that's more on the player's side than as the GM.
00:19:46
Speaker
that is That is another element of combat. there's There's two things that you've said recently, one that we'll get back to in a few minutes. But in response to that point specifically, i also always get nervous about having combat with a party that is not heavily combat built.
00:20:15
Speaker
So that's where that ancillary goal is what's really important. Exactly. Exactly. And if i if memory serves, that was the case for that first adventure. that The point of it was that these minotaurs are blocking the way, essentially. And they need to just be able to get past them to the upending goal.
00:20:35
Speaker
Right. Rescue the princess. or Right. Sure. sure um ah Get to the console or whatever we're going to try to do. Right. And I... I worry about the player characters that don't have those combat active skills.
00:20:58
Speaker
And then again, there is that pause. There is that moment of, well, I don't even know what to do. Like this isn't. And, and then i feel the need that that stress and anxiety to pivot in a way to accommodate everyone else. Yeah.
00:21:14
Speaker
and And then I start to feel like I'm losing I'm losing touch i'm losing i'm losing my my hold at the head of the table I don't think there's anything wrong if if a player suddenly says, or, you know, just is looking at their sheet and is being like, I have no idea what I can do here. Like, I don't know what, I don't know what to do.
00:21:36
Speaker
i don't think there's anything wrong with as a, as a GM jumping in and pointing out certain things that they actually could do, you know, whether it is, uh,
00:21:50
Speaker
ah doing some sort of supporting role, doing some sort of test, um being creative and using what they have on them to just go ahead and just try something, you know, ah and encourage you know give even giving them examples. Like when I warp the dramatic task rules, I always throw out examples. You could do this with this ability. You could do this with this skill. You could do this with this trait.
00:22:16
Speaker
um You don't have to, i said, but here's, these are examples of what you could do. And, you know, you'll probably think of other things as we go along. And in ah I don't think, yeah, I don't really think that there's any problem with doing that. And I don't feel that it stops the action. i think that it it may slow it down for a second, um but it will speed right back up, especially if that player picks up what you've, you know, what you've handed them.
00:22:43
Speaker
I think, I think that's one of the, that'll That's going to be my next challenge.
One-shots vs Campaigns
00:22:51
Speaker
That's going to be the next thing that I need to do in order to get outside my comfort zone and continue building this skill for this hobby.
00:23:04
Speaker
I need to run a longer campaign. I need to run like a series of games instead of just one shot after one shot after one shot, because I'm so indoctrinated in the four hour session and that's it.
00:23:22
Speaker
That i I struggle with the idea myself being able to slow down and be like, oh, well, we'll get to it next session. No, no, I have this one shot.
00:23:36
Speaker
Yeah. And the other thing about one shot versus campaign, as we've kind of touched on, is one shots you can craft. um pregens that fit the adventure. So right if there's a combat and you've got a character that's not specifically combat oriented, you're going to work in a way for them to participate in that combat. That's the way it should be.
00:23:56
Speaker
and that's the way it works. In campaign mode, That's different because if I'm playing the face character and we're in the middle of crazy combat this session, maybe I'm not as useful.
00:24:09
Speaker
But next session, I will be the center of attention. And that's OK. That's OK. Like that's that's that's the difference between one shot and campaign. But I i quickly want to go back to Chris's thing.
00:24:24
Speaker
putting so many edges on the, on a big bad villain. Don't, don't do that. I know, you know, and I, even, even as, even as I was, even as I was building them, I'm like, I'm not to remember half this shit. No, you know? And, and I was like, I shouldn't even, I shouldn't even do, do that. I like, I should just be like, he gets an action card of this or higher and he gets this much per thing.
00:24:53
Speaker
You know, you think of these things after the fact that, you know, like it's it's like with a good comeback, you know, four hours later, you're like, oh, that's what I should have say That's what I should have said. Yeah. Yeah. My advice is to stick with a couple of special things that they do. A couple.
00:25:08
Speaker
So that you know exactly what those couple things are and be make them big. Like the the main villain in in Disaster at Grand Atomica, venture I wrote for Suede, he's got multiple actions every That's enough. Yeah. Believe me.
00:25:28
Speaker
Like he can attack twice every round. And and and with with his toughness to where it was, and he's also like semi-corporeal and you're trying to do a dramatic task to make him more corporeal at that point. that Between those two things, that's all I needed to do.
00:25:45
Speaker
yeah I don't need to remember that he's got quick strike or frenzy or reach or whatever the heck else I might give him. All I need to know is he's semi-corporeal and he gets two actions time.
00:25:58
Speaker
Yeah, and and and really that simplifying them in that way, that does actually the help speed things up because you're always going to be thinking about more things that need to be handled during that combat. And so having that that simplistic but yet so powerful is is very useful. There's actually a good ah community content supplement there.
00:26:21
Speaker
out there that does that with with creatures. They modified the rules slightly so that some of the creatures are a bit simpler ah in the on the GM side, but yet still a challenge. And um i used it I used it in an event, and yeah, it worked out really well.
00:26:41
Speaker
I just need to remember to do that more often. That's my problem. Right. yeah But i'm I'm all for... it's It's okay if if the player is, is I mean, know one shot a little harder, but especially in a campaign, it's okay if the players end up deciding that they can't handle this and they run away.
00:27:04
Speaker
that's part of That's part of Savage Worlds. It's part of what it is. it's It's part of why Shane and Clint never really wanted to do a challenge system. um like they do with D&D.
00:27:17
Speaker
where And it really doesn't work. They've got this sort of half-assed kind of thing about based on toughness and all this stuff. But it really is
Embracing Unpredictability and Mistakes
00:27:26
Speaker
like, who cares? Because the point is, build your villains and see what the players
00:27:34
Speaker
mean, yeah, if there are four wild cards, you know, what they're probably going to do is end up getting severely injured is what's going to end up happening. Yeah, or they'll probably win anyway.
00:27:44
Speaker
I mean, they're going to find a way. and ah One example i think is is germane to this is, and I'll try not to spoil too much because we're playtesting Shane's adventure for the Maze Deadlands, the expansion. Mm-hmm.
00:28:01
Speaker
And we just went into this tannery at Lost Souls and it was dark and it was terrifying and it was disgusting. And we and the way Shane runs these things is just we don't know what's coming.
00:28:17
Speaker
And there were bad guys there. There were really tough bad guys. And I was sure we were not going to get out of there. And I was thinking, okay, we're going to have to run.
00:28:30
Speaker
But there was this ancillary goal not to kill the bad guys, but to get something behind them that was very precious, right, without spoiling.
00:28:40
Speaker
And we cooperated and coordinated risking our lives to get this precious thing. And um i was thinking we we we were not going to do this. It's not going to happen. And yet it did happen.
00:28:57
Speaker
It did. And it did within the rules. Like we did it. It wasn't Shane giving us something. We did it. And it also turns out that we actually beat the bad guys too.
00:29:09
Speaker
And so this is Savage Worlds. Like that's that's how it feels sometimes. For a GM, it can you can just be, you know, i I won't use the expression, but you can be really worried that you're going to kill everybody.
00:29:25
Speaker
And all of a sudden it turns around and you don't and they win. And it's i can't I can't give you any any more advice other than you'll have to learn how to accept that this is sometimes how it's going to feel.
00:29:45
Speaker
I mean, am I wrong, Chris? No, I think i think you're absolutely right. That that swingy nature of when the momentum, you can visibly see this invisible thing as it shifts back and forth, ah that's that's really kind of fun to watch. That's what makes it fun. And it does make it fun, and it does make it exciting. And it forces...
00:30:10
Speaker
Depending on who doesn't have the momentum yeah to switch tactics, and which is good because then it keeps both sides on their toes, which you're in combat, you should be on your toes. Yeah.
00:30:21
Speaker
Yeah. And ah to sum that up, I think, Dot, is it's that discomfort's going to happen. It happens to everybody. It still happens to me. i still you know worry that I'm going to kill everybody but because I've tried to make this challenging, right? But at the same time, then suddenly something turns around and something happens, but they can always run away.
00:30:48
Speaker
hu And if they can't run away, well, that's a choice you've made as a GM is to make it so they can't run away. It's not a choice you have to make.
00:31:01
Speaker
And I think just general exposure, I mean, yeah this is true, of course, you know, literally everything in life, I guess, but the more you do it, the more comfortable it gets. But this is the other thing I think that Savage Worlds does very nicely in adding in aspects of it,
00:31:18
Speaker
each time, you know, like and in, in this particular combat, I want to really make use of auto fire and, and how those rules work. So I'm going to set up the combat to be this way to drill into me, how these rules go um and the rules that are around them, like suppressing fire and things like that. And so that's just the nature of that particular thing. and now you've learned it.
00:31:45
Speaker
I want this thing to be something where it is an unstable platform and there's the potential to constantly be distracted. And those elements are in there so that you learn how those rules work. Or it becomes a big thing where it's all, you know, there's a lot of testing going on, that kind of thing. And you just sort of introduce those elements in as you go, you know, as a way to sort of teach yourself.
00:32:11
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I think it's all reps at this point. Yeah. That was, that was one of the other points that I was going to kind of touch on that Chris, you had kind of hinted up earlier in the conversation, but it's, it's also incredibly intimidating to have all of these things to remember about combat specifically.
00:32:36
Speaker
Like, How do you keep everything organized when you've got rules plus players and their rules plus table talk plus blah, blah, blah, everything else?
00:32:47
Speaker
I never worry about the player stuff. That's their job. Yeah, the player stuff is their stuff. That's right. Fuck those guys. They can figure it out themselves. i mean, in all seriousness, it's like it's really it's not my job to if the player asks for assistance. Yes.
00:33:02
Speaker
Here's what this does or here's what i I'm pretty sure this does. Or we'll just say this is what it does. um ah So it's for me, I got to worry about my but my guys that I'm running and let them then focus on what they can do and what they should be doing.
00:33:19
Speaker
um Obviously, yes, if ah if if it is a new player, I want to try and help them. If it's somebody who knows the rules better than me, which is absolutely possible and has happened, um I'm usually okay with that as well.
00:33:36
Speaker
Um, and if they, cause if they, if they get an advantage over me in, you know, usually that will in last maybe a round or two before I can figure out what's, you know, what I need to do to try and counter that. Um, but I, I welcome it because it's also a good learning opportunity as well.
00:33:54
Speaker
But, but seriously, yeah, I, there is a lot to keep track of and that's why I just kind of focus on my own stuff.
Player Support and Positive Tone
00:33:59
Speaker
Let them, let them do that. Yeah, even if for in in one shots I provide pre-gens that give you at least cursory explanations of what you can do. So an edge will say what an edge is and it'll give you a little bit of an explanation. So that then the player can say, well, I'm reading this quick strike edge.
00:34:19
Speaker
And that sounds pretty cool. It seems i can I can maybe hit somebody as they come up to me. And I'm like, yes, that reminds me. Now I can tell you what it does. i can encourage you to do it and blah blah, blah. But if you're not going to bring it up to me, i may or may not remember. Good luck.
00:34:36
Speaker
Good luck. I probably won't remember that you have it, but that's why I gave you a character sheet. Right. And, and like, it's, it's really kind of on you to ask me to try to make use of your character sheet in the way that, that you see it making sense.
00:34:54
Speaker
Right. And then I will help you do that. That way, all I have to keep keep track of, that I have to keep track of is, is my people. Right. and what I'm doing. and that's It's uncomfortable for me, I won't lie to you. When I'm running combats in g and GM land,
00:35:13
Speaker
um i worry that players will hate me. I worry that I'm going to kill everybody. I worry that it's going to get boring. I worry that I'm going to forget something that is important to the players, that's unfair of me to forget.
00:35:29
Speaker
Right. I worry about all those things and um it's uncomfortable. And yet from me on the player side, I'm having a great time. Right. If I'm playing a character and then we're hip, you know, neck deep into Savage Worlds, you know, system mastery combat.
00:35:48
Speaker
I'm loving it. Even if the GM makes mistakes. And even if you have the two clubs. Even if I have the two o' clubs. Yeah.
00:35:59
Speaker
But that's what a good transition point to let your players help you, right? As a GM ah of Savage Worlds, a lot of times the the players who come to play in your games are going to be Savage Worlds players.
00:36:13
Speaker
Turns out that's really a big boon for you because they can help you with some of these rules that you're a little bit fuzzy on. The trick is to make sure that you have confidence enough to keep control of the table, even if you are fuzzy and they are not.
00:36:30
Speaker
So to say, no, no, that's, I mean, thanks for the help, but I think I'm going to run it this way. This is on my table and how it's going to work, right? But at the same time as a GM, I would encourage you to be open to that because these players can be really helpful to you.
00:36:45
Speaker
Like how does Entangle work? Well, there happens to be a player at the table who knows how Entangle works. So let's do it. Right. That way it takes it offloads it for you. And if especially if you've got a campaign with players, you know, are playing Savage Worlds, they're going to help you.
00:36:59
Speaker
Right. It's OK that they help you. It's also OK for you to say, ah you shush, I'm going to do it this way or this I'm making a ruling and that's the way it's going to be.
00:37:11
Speaker
But then what if people hate me? I know. They don't ever want to play a game with me ever again. dot doesn't let me do anything at her table. She just tells me to zip it.
00:37:24
Speaker
See, here's here's where here's When it comes to letting your players help you, i think this is where... And this is not mentioned in the rules, but I think that this makes a big difference. You set a tone in their mind...
00:37:41
Speaker
when you first start the game out. So, and in and and i'll I'll say this as a compliment to, well, actually to both of you. It was going to be just to you, Dot, but then was an afterthought. Well, I'm like, yeah. I said i guess this podcast was Tracy's idea. i probably should include her, I suppose.
00:37:59
Speaker
But it's if you've if you set the tone of of being a good GM and like you've started off the the session nicely and things are flowing and just personality-wise – um then there's no, like, theyre they they want to help you because they like you, they're having a good time. they're It would be very difficult for either of you to even to do things that would cause players to dislike stuff that you're doing at the table.
00:38:33
Speaker
Like even so No, no here no nonomally no, no. Here. No, no, happened. Okay. okay yeah Yes. Fine. It happened to you. But i I said very difficult.
00:38:47
Speaker
Okay. so So that was a perfect explanation. ah Kudos to that player for surmounting the very difficult threshold. But here's, I'll even give you an example and I'll pick on Tracy.
00:38:59
Speaker
It's. drives me knuck and futz that Tracy is so damn stingy with Benny's. And it just grinds my gears when it comes to combat because I look at those things and they look so finite to me and it's so antithetical to the way I approach the game.
00:39:19
Speaker
But I enjoy and appreciate Tracy as a GM. So despite the fact that I just... just Drives me crazy. I'm going to always still have a good time.
00:39:33
Speaker
And I'm always going to. And if Tracy needs help with something, has rules questions, I'm going to help out even if it's to my detriment. Because i enjoy I enjoy and respect Tracy as a GM.
00:39:45
Speaker
See, I think you're just being a wuss because you this is the first time you've actually had to experience something like that. As someone that has played in your games consistently and is constantly targeted as you get no bennies, tough kid.
00:40:01
Speaker
Yeah, see, and and the silence coming from that microphone is deafening, Christopher. It's because I don't want to interrupt. I don't want to interrupt. Oh, sure. Look, just because I look at you as a player, I just rub some dirt on it, you're fine. that's That doesn't sound like it's my problem. Yeah, how?
00:40:18
Speaker
i love I love the moments when we're at a con event and I look around the table and everyone else at the table has a stack of five or six bennies and I have one. And I'll look at Chris and I'll look at my Benny and I'll look at Chris and I'll look at my Benny again and I'll be like, Lisa, may I have some more?
00:40:38
Speaker
But if you look and you see Dave's sad face, he just or if his just Dave's face in general, you just have to throw bennies at it He's just it's just this it's just it's a it's a face that elicits bennies. No. um Yes, but I've corrected that behavior. You have pointed that out ah about 15,000 times. And so I've corrected that behavior. don't know if it's corrected much, but OK. All right. Here, take a bennie. Fine. yeah Thanks. Thanks.
00:41:04
Speaker
This is obviously behavior I need to correct as well. No, but that's the thing. No, I don't think that you do. You absolutely should not correct it. Just because I'm sitting here complaining about it, you absolutely shouldn't. The example still stands.
00:41:17
Speaker
I respect you as a GM, and I like playing in your games. cause I think you do a really, really good job. So even if there's things that I disagree with, so I still want to help. I want to help and and succeed because you as a person – has elicited that desire to help not anything to do with the rules or anything else at all right yes yes still i will i will take it under advice no you absolutely should not if you give me start giving me extra pennies i'm gonna get pissed
00:41:50
Speaker
See, this is so funny. I'm going to go off on it. I'm going to play into our name and I'm going to go off on a bit of a tangent here because Chris talking about Chris bitching about resource management after I absolutely just I fucking pouted.
00:42:09
Speaker
i got mad when he was running his hustling campaign because he stole all my shit. I got pissed. We like we have this big scene happen where we get thrown overboard out of our long ships He has us roll to see what gear we have left, and I'm like, oh, first of all, mofo, i bought all of that. you don't get to just take it away.
00:42:38
Speaker
And he told me I had like six arrows left. And I was like, why am I counting arrows? I'm Legolas. I have a never ending quiver. We don't we don't play that game. i i don't resource manage that way.
00:42:48
Speaker
And he was like, uh, tough. I said, well, I'm going to cross my arms and be mad the rest of the session. And so I did. And it caused problems.
00:43:03
Speaker
Fair. Fair. That's fair. Yeah. I don't want to talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I don't know enough to comment.
00:43:15
Speaker
just, I mean, on on that whole tangent. That's one of those gimmies that I'm that I'm always going to have no matter what game I'm playing or running.
00:43:26
Speaker
I don't find resource management as entertainment value. i want to be able to just have my things and do the things with my things. um If it's counting PowerPoints like that's different because that's a.
00:43:41
Speaker
that's an interactive mechanic, but me just being able to have an arrow when I need it for the, you know, few and far between instances that there is a combat requirement.
00:43:55
Speaker
I don't want to have to like worry about that. I want to be able to just play in those moments and not have to think, Oh fuck. Well, I'm out of arrows. I guess we're going to have to do a shopping session.
00:44:09
Speaker
Yeah, but shopping sessions are fun. I find them to be not fun at all. That's interesting. There's a whole thing about that. but i That's another tangent. yeah i'm half I'm half and half on that.
Resource Management Opinions
00:44:25
Speaker
i When we played 50 Fathoms with Daryl, we had to do resource management. And was on board with it. I like 100% in from the beginning.
00:44:37
Speaker
And...
00:44:39
Speaker
and
00:44:42
Speaker
trying to get enough money to run a ship and all, cause I was the captain. of the ship in 50 fathoms became an admiral later of a fleet. ah Once we got to the point where we were going to deal with the, with the witches and resource management was a thing, especially early on, as you get further on into the campaign, it starts to become less of a thing, but I think it's kind of fun to have to deal with that a little bit.
00:45:10
Speaker
That said, i understand why it's not for some people. I think it's fun when you know about it. If you know going in, hey BT dubs, you're going to have to make sure you keep track your shit.
00:45:24
Speaker
Then, yeah, OK, I can play along. But going into a session expecting to have all my stuff and then being told, well, do you still have your dismembered hand or don't you? And I'm like, well, where the hell did it go?
00:45:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I hear you. i hear you. So Horizon does that a little too, right? So I give you, you never run out of regular arrows. Regular arrows is fine. You can have those all day long. Yeah, But the special electricity arrows or the special terror blast arrows, I'm going to roll a d4 and you get that many.
00:45:56
Speaker
And that's, yeah you deal with it. That's fine. Because at worst comes to worse. I know just because I don't have my super special fancy arrows, I still have regular arrows so that I can do my thing.
00:46:11
Speaker
I hear you. Okay. Just don't touch my stuff, man. Fair, fair, fair.
00:46:23
Speaker
I mean, you know. We could really spiral off into a number of discussion topics. Don't get me started on the freaking Headstone Hill run through that Shane ran us through.
00:46:37
Speaker
man. Taken stuff. Talk about taking stuff. i was pretty angry about that. i was actually You should be. Not angry. I was like, ooh, that feels unfair.
00:46:49
Speaker
Did you, in that Headstone campaign, did you eventual i mean did you trust Shane and so you eventually got your stuff back? Okay, buddy. I'm sorry. I have the floor.
00:47:01
Speaker
well I mean, of course I trusted Shane, but ah it in that moment, it felt... It felt like this was one of those inevitable, you're you're not going to change how this goes and this is the way it is kind of things where it was like, well, okay, I'm putting everything I have into protecting this thing, but you're going to take it no matter what.
00:47:32
Speaker
a And and i that's a lesson to me. It's a lesson to me as a GM because I don't want players to feel that way. Right. Like, and, and sometimes I inadvertently make players feel that way. This is, this is another lesson as a GM, you're going to inadvertently screw over somebody who doesn't want to be screwed over in that way.
00:47:54
Speaker
Right? It's inevitably going to happen that you're yeah you're going to annoy somebody. Chris gets annoyed because I'm not giving enough bennies. Right? I'm sure that Dot gets annoyed for some other reason.
00:48:05
Speaker
But and it happens. You're going to do it at some point. There's going to be some narrative moment, this big moment where some player wants their chance to shine and you don't give it to them.
00:48:18
Speaker
And you don't mean to not give it to them, but you just didn't. And ouch, that hurts. And this is, as a GM, you've got to kind of like forgive yourself and kind of live with that. It's okay.
00:48:32
Speaker
It's okay. Like in the balance, it's all okay. But that's just part of being a GM. You're not going to do it perfectly. and when you do, wow it's great.
00:48:44
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Really, really, really great. Feels good. But a lot of the times you're going to make some mistake. And you're going to make mistakes without even really realizing them until much, much later.
00:48:55
Speaker
Oh, yeah. they One that's completely tangential that comes to mind is ah is a one shot of Han Cluster I did where a player had a strategy of dealing with a problem. I don't want to go into it, but maybe one day we will.
00:49:11
Speaker
A strategy of dealing with a problem. And I was like, And I'm trying to solve this in-game. I'm trying to tell him like, well, okay. I mean, yeah first I answered wrong the first time. So I said, yes, that this thing that you're looking for exists.
00:49:27
Speaker
And then after that, he's like, oh, great. Well, I'm going to do that. And I'm like, well, okay. But if you do that in-game, if somebody finds out that you're doing that, you're going to be in a world of trouble. And for various reasons, right? And he's like, I don't care. They're not going to find out.
00:49:42
Speaker
And then it becomes, are we going to escalate this to out of game? And at that point, I did not. And I should have. And I didn't realize that mistake until after the game was over.
00:49:55
Speaker
And it was it's one of the big regrets I have about a one shot that I ran.
Balancing Enjoyment and Challenges
00:50:00
Speaker
No, no, no, no,
00:50:05
Speaker
regrets all over the place that's right gm is just nothing but lifelong regrets's right so far the note that i'm getting is you're never going to do it right if and when you do you'll regret it and your players will always find a way to hate you ah so so this is perfect for you this is absolutely perfect for you yeah amazing yeah
00:50:36
Speaker
Well, thanks for hanging out with us. Whether you're behind the screen, at the table, or lost in your own story, we hope that you found a little inspiration. If you enjoy our tangents, be sure to connect with us on Discord and follow us on socials to keep the conversation going.
00:50:52
Speaker
Until next time.
00:51:03
Speaker
We didn't even talk about my Eat the Reich and Prop 2 game last Thursday. It was in the outline. I put it right there. It's right there. it went really well.