Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Tangent #6: The Con Vs. The Living Room
76 Plays12 days ago
In this episode, we tangent about all kinds of topics regarding con games versus home games, the difference in approach and style, introductions at the table about how much to say or not to say, and a particularly detailed "very special" tangent about Gen Con specifically.
Our Discord: https://discord.gg/2skmrtYyZU
GoFundMe for our friend Aaron Acevedo: https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-aaron-acevedos-double-transplant-journey
GoFundMe for Jodi Black's family: https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-jodis-fight-against-pulmonary-fibrosis
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Theme
00:00:02
Speaker
It's with new players and confidence because i think when you're at the table like that, yes, you absolutely should not spend an hour just all kinds of rules and setting and nobody needs to know that stuff.
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello, friends. Welcome to Tabletop Tangents, a podcast about running tabletop RPGs, writing stories, and sometimes the meandering paths we take in pursuit creativity and inspiration.
00:00:34
Speaker
Tangent number six, the con versus the living room.
00:00:47
Speaker
And there's another tangent coming up that let me just say I'm... i just I just can't wait. And it's a planned tangent, so it's a plangent. But with all the pre-talking that you're doing, Tracy, I just want to sit back and just savor everything that happens because I just cannot wait.
00:01:08
Speaker
I cannot wait for this. All right. Well, we'll get to it when the time comes, I guess. Yes. When it's natural and ready. All
RPGs: Conventions vs Home Play
00:01:16
Speaker
right. Welcome, everybody. Sorry that we are we took a week off last week because we had ah another perfect storm of complications with the hosts.
00:01:27
Speaker
So, um you know, it's going to happen sometimes, but we are devoted to to keeping this going. And this time we're going to be talking about con games versus home games.
00:01:40
Speaker
And we're going to explore various different angles. And i suppose the primary one would be, what's the difference? and maybe how to strategize for those differences. I would agree. I think that I think you do plan differently when it comes to the people, you know, or this or the setting and scenario that, you know, versus what you don't. Yeah.
00:02:07
Speaker
ah I think, too, I think there's a lot of differences with it or a lot of... There's a different approach when it comes to, i think, even your style as a game master when you're at the table. I know for me there certainly is. Mm-hmm.
00:02:24
Speaker
ah You know, when I'm running campaigns, I'm i'm much more relaxed. Oh, yeah. I'm much more...
00:02:34
Speaker
willing to um let scenes breathe probably maybe more than they should um but yeah and also to entertain um no pun intended the podcast name but entertain more tangents and or you know side quests that kind of thing but That's also just in the context of the fact that I have, you know, several four hour sessions as opposed to just that one or maybe two at most, depending upon, you know, how you're doing it. Yes. um There is a certain level of more energetic focus when it comes to when it comes to a con game versus, you know, running that home game.
00:03:19
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that I've erred too far because because I'm a designer, because I'm trying to create my own stuff, and and i'm my mental process for gathering players to help me playtest my stuff is let's get in and out of this as fast as possible, right?
GM Styles and Player Engagement
00:03:42
Speaker
So let's get the players doing their thing and then off so that there there's no more obligation for them to do this with me. that's a i I think that I do that too much because i'm once i've once I'm running a game, generally it's it's it's polished enough that like, no, this is still fun. like This is not just some experimental
00:04:05
Speaker
Like awful thing that's just going to break apart. Usually it's happened, but, but usually it's, it's enough that, okay, no, we're going to have fun with this.
00:04:16
Speaker
And I, I just, I just ascribe. to my players this attitude that they want they don't want their time wasted. And so I i go very quickly when I'm playtesting those kinds of games, when I'm trying to be like, okay, let's playtest the Transcendence Plot Point campaign, even though I've played it like five times with other groups.
00:04:39
Speaker
I'm not going to waste your time. i promise it's only going to go X amount of sessions, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. And this latest one where I'm doing hon cluster for Dot and Chris and my oh spouse, Booth and Dylan, I am deliberately slowing down.
00:04:55
Speaker
For better or worse, and Chris and Dot can talk to this, but but i'm I'm really saying, okay, no, I'm going to take my time and we're going to have this stupid sparring match in the middle of this campaign that has nothing to do with anything.
00:05:10
Speaker
Just something I think would be fun. And I still get self-conscious about it, right? I still, i i don't know if this is fun or not, but I do, I'm trying to take my time and trying to force myself to do it.
00:05:24
Speaker
So you're actually going slower in our game than you have for ones in the past? Oh, yes. Big time slower. It really calls into question the difference in GM style with that, because i know comparatively with Chris running a campaign, you're going like 90 miles an hour in 65.
00:05:46
Speaker
And ah for him like, you know, old man Huss is teetering around. mean,
00:05:56
Speaker
i mean shuffling, not even bothering lifting my feet. I'm just sort of right just just shuffling around. But the the thing of that is both are.
00:06:07
Speaker
Great. Like there hasn't been a point in Han cluster thus far that I've been like, golly, this is dragging on.
Player Dynamics and Game Strategy
00:06:17
Speaker
Can we please get on with, there hasn't been that moment that has not happened. That's my worst fear. So yeah no a happen I can promise you it's not going to happen, but even if there was a session that was a little bit,
00:06:34
Speaker
I don't even know how to phrase it, but it there has not been a session that I have thought this is dragging on because it just simply has not.
00:06:46
Speaker
I have played in games, not Chris's. So everybody just relax. Are you sure? Because I'm positive. Okay. All right. I i have played in in games that were campaign setting that I was like, my Lanta.
00:07:05
Speaker
I want to just be done. Let's just be done. yeah And i think a lot of that has to do with, you know, like you said, who's at your table and the, the kind of prep that you have done. Right. So,
00:07:21
Speaker
You know, i who's at your table? Let's start there. Yeah. So at home, there are people you generally know. And by at home, I mean, it could be online games and all that stuff, too. But there people you that you have interacted with before, usually.
00:07:39
Speaker
Usually, sometimes you're bringing in somebody new, but but there's a as a hopefully, if you're lucky, you've got some kind of regular group. Now, not everybody's lucky, but I get it.
00:07:50
Speaker
I am lucky. I've got two in-person groups. I can probably put together an online group whenever I want to because i just have enough of a reputation that I could ask people and they would show up.
00:08:04
Speaker
And that's not easy for a lot of people. um But you kind of know who they are. And so you kind of know what what you can get away with, what kind of humor you can use, you know, the things you can't do at a con game, you can do at home. Mm-hmm.
00:08:20
Speaker
But at the same time, you know who they are. They're going to play a certain kind of character. They're going to make the certain kind of joke. They're going to approach things in a certain kind of way. And you start to get used to that.
00:08:33
Speaker
And you start to prep for that. And when you step out of that into the con environment, all those bets are off. And that can either go really, really great or, you know, really, really badly.
00:08:48
Speaker
I think too, with that, there's some, ah that amount of expectation, you know, breeds a certain amount of um complacency when it comes to switching gears and doing ah con events, one shots, because you do sort of plan, you plan for what you know um and not what you, you know, not what might happen. And, know,
00:09:16
Speaker
It takes a little bit to ah adjust to that, I think.
Pacing Techniques in RPG Sessions
00:09:21
Speaker
you know when you I know that certainly when I left, I shouldn't say left, but when I was running campaigns consistently and then went and did con games, there was They were a little little disjointed because I was kind of focusing how the game was going to go based upon the players that I had experience with. And the reverse is also true in the sense that now, you know, running a lot of one shots and con games, flipping back into that campaign mode, it's kind of almost, I don't want to say it's like the opposite, but in a certain sense, it is the opposite.
00:10:01
Speaker
I think it it comes to comes down to a pacing thing, I think is where I'm trying to go with this, in that I get my mind stuck into this four-hour three-and-a-half-hour window that we need to complete this task and this thing. And so then sitting down in a campaign setting, my initial reaction is to sort of move things along way.
00:10:24
Speaker
probably too quickly. um And to try and get them, get the task accomplished for what I have notes written for, which absolutely i shouldn't be doing. I shouldn't be doing that at all.
00:10:36
Speaker
You know, I need to be, what what do you mean? What do you mean? i think Well, i think there's I think there's benefits to both. I think i mean, there is yes, but it, and and this is probably more of a critique of, I think, my style than anything else is that I don't feel, actually, I feel accomplished when we don't get through all of my notes.
00:10:59
Speaker
um at least for me because i don't like to i don't like to end the session saying well that's all i got for today so we're just gonna have to be ended here um because that that that for me is breaking one of those verisimilitude uh and i knew at some point you were gonna get the word in Hell yes. ah Yeah, i think that there's, i think there's benefits in both ways because I, as to to Dot's point, I've, I've not only played campaigns that I felt like some sessions were just like, Ooh, are we who are we moving along or are we okay? What are we doing? I've played one shots that are that way. and that's awful. Yeah.
00:11:46
Speaker
That is the worst. Yeah, same. I've also experienced the long-winded one-shot. When you're there and you've spent an hour at the table and the poor GM is still trying to explain the game to people.
00:11:59
Speaker
Oh, gosh and um I mean, i feel it's it's it's i don't want to you know I don't want to bag on the GM. I get i get it. For certain games, it can be hard. um this I want to say this one was a Torg game.
00:12:15
Speaker
Torg Eternity is kind of tricky because And you have to really kind of strategize and plan how you're going to introduce this game to the players.
00:12:25
Speaker
And one thing that you should not do is spend an hour talking about all the different rules and all the different cosmos and all the different specific weird stuff that's going on with Torg. You have to show them.
00:12:39
Speaker
I think that's true of any game, but in particular games that are complex that you're trying to run in four hours, right? See, and this is this is where I stand by my philosophy of what are rules?
00:12:56
Speaker
If if you don't want want me to spend, you know, infinite time continuously explaining rules over and over and over again, just we'll figure them out as we get to them. hmm.
00:13:11
Speaker
I'm with you. And the thing is, that's something that is not easy to do the first time. it's not easy to do that without practice.
00:13:23
Speaker
Yeah. I ah completely unrelated. Oh, tangent. Okay. but ah Played Ticket to Ride with a couple of friends of mine recently. and i love that game. Yeah. It's one of my favorite board games. I have the 10th anniversary edition with the plastic stuff it's and the tins. Oh, it's so great. So great. Very cute. It's perfect for people who just have, you you just want a casual board game with.
00:13:49
Speaker
Yeah, it's a good it's a good game. Anyways, so I had already gone through explaining the premise rules, what they need to do goals and how to accomplish them. I i had given a solid spiel of generically, this is how you play this game. This is what you want to be doing.
00:14:06
Speaker
And this is how you go about it. We were like an hour into the game and one of my friends was like, okay, but how do I even like make, like, how do I even get my destinations to go correctly?
00:14:22
Speaker
And I was like, girl, what? And it took one of the other people at the table To be like, okay, are you looking at your destination? Do you not see how on your destination ticket it's like the map and you need to get... And she was like, wow, I'm really bad at geography. And I did not pick up on that. And that was one of those things that I thought was just so just like in your face obvious. I didn't even think
Building Confidence in Game Rules
00:14:49
Speaker
to explain it. And then it came up and i was like, well...
00:14:53
Speaker
One of those moments, I guess. Learn for next time, I guess. Right. But see, that's that's actually a really good example because I was going to say, like, where... Because I'm in agreement with both of you, the the whole what are rules thing and finding, you know, that minimal amount. But where...
00:15:15
Speaker
I know it's different, but where's the balance? Like, where do you find the balance? Like, I feel like my Savage Worlds spiel for new players is fairly toit. I can almost mouth it with you as you're saying it. but the but But your comments, though, Dot, actually make me think, like...
00:15:37
Speaker
Am I explaining too much? Like I don't get into combat. I talk talk to him about it. I said, when we get there, we'll do it. But it makes me think maybe there's, maybe I am explaining too much in that regard. You know what I mean?
00:15:53
Speaker
I don't know. I don't, I don't think that you are. i think that you get, ah you, i think both of you, because I've heard both of your spiels most of multiple times.
00:16:07
Speaker
I think you both hit the highlights in a way that gives new players confidence and gives like existing players enough of a refresher to be like, oh, yeah, that's right.
00:16:23
Speaker
I think I think the both of you have a pretty solid balance on that. See, and that's where my that's where my concern comes in is it's it's with new players and confidence because I think when you're at the table like that, yes, you absolutely should not spend an hour just blah, all kinds of rules and setting and nobody needs to know that stuff.
00:16:44
Speaker
um And I didn't say shit because we're going to about shit later. But I think it's it's a real thing. i know it certainly is for me if I'm sitting down in a familiar game I need to know something of the rules. Like, okay. So like I sat down on a pirate board demo and okay, I know I'm a pirate guy.
00:17:04
Speaker
I get it. I'm somewhere in that pirate spectrum, but, and I've got these numbers on my sheet, but I don't necessarily know what they do and I'm okay with that. But I still like, if I don't have,
00:17:15
Speaker
At the bare minimum, the core mechanic explained to me like what what is it that I need to do when I want to try and do something that's going to require me to roll dice. Then i do feel lost as a player and I won't, I'll be so worried about that that I won't be listening to anything else that's being said.
00:17:33
Speaker
You know, so that confidence factor, I think for players is something you do need to think about when it comes to explaining that kind of stuff.
00:17:45
Speaker
I think that I say a little less than Chris does in my spiel. You do. Maybe a lot less. You probably do. I'm very wordy. Because I i basically say target four, roll two dice, top of the dice exploding, spend bunnies to reroll, and then I say the rest of it.
00:18:03
Speaker
We're going to figure out is you're going to, I'm going to, going to tell you as we go. Right. And I think that works, but ah some people may feel like that's not enough. But part of the balance that we're talking about is getting into the game.
00:18:19
Speaker
So if a novice is there and they know the basics, they're they're going to forget every, like 90% what i say anyway, So if I just say the core mechanic, targets a four, roll your die, roll a wild die with it, done.
00:18:34
Speaker
And that's all, that way they can forget whatever I just said and and and then we move on. Then we're getting into the game. And then when I say, roll your first straight die, here we go. You're rolling notice. So take your notice die, take your wild die, roll it, take the best of the two. And now I'll show you what happens when you succeed or when you fail or whatever. And then we're off to the races.
00:18:58
Speaker
So I feel that that's why I don't say too much because I'm just like, well, let's go. because But within 30 minutes, I want you immersed if I can do it or 20 minutes if I can, right? From the time we sit down at the table.
00:19:12
Speaker
But one other thing that that comes to mind is the opening spiel at a con game is not only about learning the game or learning the rules or learning what you need to know to play this game. It's also getting a sense of what the GM is going to do, of how they're going to run this game, so that you feel that confidence rating eatinging off of them, confidence to the point, are they going to be self-conscious confident? Are they going to be confident because they really do know what they're doing and they want to invite you along? Are they going to be adversarial? Are they going to be wishy-washy? Or are they going to be like, we're not sure what we're doing and I haven't really thought about this, but let's play a game, you know? There's a lot of variance there. And part of what I think both Chris and I do and why we do it the way we do it is to give that sense of confidence, not only in the sense that we know what we're doing,
00:20:14
Speaker
But that we know what we're doing to the point where we're going to be able to control the table and invite you along with us in a way that is not terrifying to you or adversarial in a way, right? Or terrifying to us. Right. Yeah.
00:20:31
Speaker
It's important to me to do that. And that's why I have refined my spiel and not just the spiel about the rules, but the way I comport myself in the first five minutes once everybody sat down and I give character sheets and I start.
00:20:50
Speaker
You know, I think it's important. To me it is because what I've seen so often and what i what what is so disappointing is when GMs are just like, well, yeah, we're going to run this game. You know, i kind of have an idea. going to play some Savage Worlds here. i don't know if anybody of you played it or not. You know, it's it's it's it's this...
00:21:17
Speaker
I don't want to say unrehearsed, but but it's it's this wishy-washy, we're just, let's see what happens kind of thing. And that that turns me off right away as a player. There's no intentionality behind it. Yeah.
Gen Con Logistics and Strategies
00:21:30
Speaker
Yeah. it's it's I have this cool thing, we're playing whatever, but I haven't rehearsed this. I haven't polished this. And I don't ask, I don't, they don't need to have perfect polish, but I really, as a player, to give me confidence, I need a GM who's got that confidence of, I know what I'm doing.
00:21:54
Speaker
I think one of the things, and I think a lot of people forget this too, and it it can be hard to remember, say, if you're you know ah if it's you know Saturday at 7 p.m. and you're at a gaming event event at Gen Con, and you've gone through three days of this. But I liken it to being in a video store.
00:22:17
Speaker
And... but Because you know if you've worked in a video I have worked in a video store And the thing about it, and I probably mentioned this before, I guess, ah now that I think about it, you've called me out on that, is that...
00:22:29
Speaker
Everybody who's in there, they want to be there. So they're excited to be there. They're excited to find that movie. So in the case of the con, they are excited to play the game. And you, as the person behind the counter, or as behind the screen in this case, should also be excited that these people are here, in in effect, in your store, right?
00:22:51
Speaker
to enjoy this activity. And you should be just as enthusiastic about what they're about to rent because they have paid a fee more than likely to be there um you know and and treated it as as such.
00:23:09
Speaker
There's my really brilliant analogy for today. Well done. All of our Gen Z listeners are like, what the F's a video store, dude?
00:23:20
Speaker
They wouldn't call you dude. They'd call you Unk. Oh, would they call me Unk? Is that what? is yeah I haven't heard that one. Okay. That's good to know. i no I'm serious. i like I like to hear this kind of stuff. I like to stay hip. Yeah, we're staying hip.
00:23:33
Speaker
That's what we're doing. My Lanta.
00:23:37
Speaker
I was just going to assist in transitioning to the next phase of this tangent, which is what Chris has been waiting for. we are about halfway. Let's do this. Tracy, go. Location, location, location. uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. Can I preface this? Having been to Gen Con, this is why I found this fascinating before.
00:24:01
Speaker
I never looked at it this way. I don't disagree with anything that you're about to say, but I never looked at it this way. Okay. Well, how many how many how how many times have you been to Gen Con?
00:24:14
Speaker
I would have to do a count, but I would say probably at least about 10. Okay. Maybe closer to probably somewhere in the 10 to 15 range. I mean, you're in the range. and I'm in the range. You're in the range. I'm in the range. did Milwaukee and Indy. So I've done both. Okay. Well, I was never in the Milwaukee, but I've been going to Gen Con for... i 14 years now or so. i go almost every year. The only times I didn't go was when I was went to the KCON instead, which is a K-pop convention, which I kind of really want to go back to. But it happens generally at the same time as Gen Con.
00:24:54
Speaker
So the point I'm making there a tangent here is ive because Gen Con is unique, it's huge, and it requires its own kind of prep. Not only for games you're going to run there, which is it's it's a whole thing. it's It's a huge con. So if you're bringing stuff and you know and and you you have... games you want to run, you've got to plan ahead about how are you going to get the stuff to the con, how are you going to get stuff between you know rooms because sometimes you're going to be walking for 40 minutes between sessions just to get someplace. It is massive and you have to really plan ahead.
00:25:31
Speaker
But here's my tangent that that Chris is so excited about getting into. It's because I've been so many times to Gen Con and because I'm getting older, and I think this is a factor in that as well, is the first time you go, you don't think about bathrooms at all.
00:25:47
Speaker
You don't think about it at all. It's it's like, well, if i have to go to the bathroom, I'm just going to go to the bathroom. I'm sure there's going to be one nearby. And for the most part, you're right. You know, Gen Con has a lot of bathrooms. But here's the thing that you discover, at least that i discovered as i moved into my, you know, ninth, 10th, 11th, 12th year now. um i I plan ahead about bathrooms at Gen Con now. Like to the point where because i've had I've been burned so many times where I'm like, I've got to go to the bathroom. Where is the nearest bathroom? Okay. Okay.
00:26:24
Speaker
I really have to go. And once you find one and you realize, oh my God, okay, there's a line, all the stalls are taken. And once I get in there or there's and a stall that's out of order for whatever reason, i mean, you go in, you go, okay, well, this isn't going to work. I'm going to have to just backtrack out of here and find someplace else.
00:26:45
Speaker
And I can't wait in line. I've got to just, i you're you're torn. Like this is this is what happens. It sounds stupid. I know it sounds dumb. No, it doesn't though. But it happens. And I've had it happen where I'm like, okay, I'm in a desperate situation now and I've got to decide this bathroom isn't working for me. Either all the stalls are taken, one of them is locked, there's no toilet paper anywhere to be seen or whatever. I've got to decide whether I'm going to go down the hall this way or back to the exhibition hall that way.
00:27:20
Speaker
The exhibition hall has huge bathrooms, but huge lines down the hall. This way has one down the stairs over there because I've been to Gen Con for 12 years and I know exactly where it is, but it is neglected and may also be out of toilet paper or whatever, right? Yeah. to me, hold on. So this picture that you're painting yeah right here, right now, this is, this is, and this is why i think this is great for gaming con because you're literally talking about, you're the guide in the dungeon. Yes. Taking the party one direction or the other direction. You know, the dangers and the threats that may exist this way or that way. And you you have to, you know, guide that party. Which way do you want to go? And I'm sorry, please. yeah but but and I can take that analogy further because this happens more often than not when I'm in the Union Station slash Crown Plaza area of Gen Con. And anybody who's been to Gen Con knows that Crown Plaza is weird, right?
00:28:18
Speaker
at Gen Con because it's built on the existing where ah where a train station used to be. So it has these huge metal I-beams everywhere and these old tracks and stuff. And some of the hotel rooms are even on on tracks in train cars, right? So you can specifically get a hotel room that's in one of the train cars. It's really cool, actually.
00:28:44
Speaker
But it's also a maze down there. And just finding your room when you're going to some panel or whatever, because a lot of panels are down there in the basement of Crowne Plaza, is a challenge, let alone finding a bathroom. Because you're going through Crowne Plaza to get to Union Station, which is where all the LARPs are, and there's bathrooms on the way, and there's supposedly bathrooms down in Union Station somewhere.
00:29:11
Speaker
Maybe you remember where they are because you only come here once a year. Maybe you don't. But in the crisis situation, when you must go now, you are in trouble.
00:29:24
Speaker
And I have been, i have, i believe me, without going into detail, I've been in the worst amount of trouble. in in situations like this. And so now I know better.
00:29:37
Speaker
And this is why i've I've really thought about this, where the point is, okay, pay attention. Because in if if I don't pay attention to what my body's doing and and where I am in the day and all this stuff, I could get caught unawares. So instead I say, okay, at some point, I'm pretty sure i'm going to have to go to the bathroom the next hour.
00:30:00
Speaker
I need to plan that now. I need to do that now. So, so that I don't get caught in horror land. Well, ah the horror land is a great way to, to describe the bathrooms in general at Gen Con. I mean, absolute war zone. Yeah.
00:30:16
Speaker
it It is. I mean, sometimes it's fine and you get the sense of which ones are less traveled after you've gone for 10 years. Yeah. You know where to go.
00:30:27
Speaker
You're like, okay, this one, no. This one's right outside the the exhibit hall or right inside the gaming hall or whatever. There's going to be a line in there. It's going to be just a disaster area.
00:30:39
Speaker
But this one upstairs over here by the quiet room or whatever, that one's going to be less traveled because there's going to be a lot less people up there And they don't know it's here. And all these poor saps who were gone to Gen Con for the first year, they don't know that this is a good bathroom. It sounds stupid. But the older you get and the more incidents that you have at cons like these, the more I think about it.
00:31:02
Speaker
So that's my tangent, unless there's something I'm forgetting that I that i didn't bring up before, but but there it is. it it I know it's unpleasant, but it is something that I now think about when I go.
00:31:17
Speaker
And like we were talking about before the podcast, your hotel location makes a big difference too. If your hotel is away and you need to Uber there, you're going to plan ahead about your exhibit hall visits and your shopping and what you're going to be carrying around. You may have a friend who's got a hotel that's close that you can drop your stuff in. Maybe you don't.
00:31:37
Speaker
you You're going to plan ahead. but You're going to learn how to. Otherwise, you're gonna be the first year you do it, you're going to be carrying you know five board games in a stupid bag and you're going to wish like hell that you either had a close hotel or that you didn't buy this stuff in the morning and decided to instead bought it at six o'clock.
00:31:58
Speaker
This is the kind of thing you think about at Gen Con. And I think that's totally relevant to this discussion. I love the fact that just the the knowing that there was some point along your Gen Con journey where this thought process entered, you know, just part of the just the regular phase and development of everything with this. i That's part of being Tracy.
00:32:23
Speaker
it's yeah It's my analytical self. I mean, to the point where I i do this in life. i i I go the same way every day to a specific restaurant or whatever. If I go to In-N-Out every afternoon for lunch I go the same way. And then over time, I realize, you know, it's slightly safer if I do this.
00:32:46
Speaker
If I go and turn from this lane rather than this s lane in the left-turn lane. Slightly safer, right? And so I make the decision. Now I'm going to turn from this lane from now on. And I do that and iterate over years and years and years to figure out what the safest way and what what the the you know the the least, like,
00:33:06
Speaker
I don't know, whatever, the the least friction that I can to get where I want to go in a play in a way that doesn't make me feel like I'm going to get run off the road or whatever. Same thing at Gen Con. It's part of my makeup. I don't pretend that anybody else does this, but I do it.
00:33:23
Speaker
And so Gen Con is just an example of it This is where I think you would actually excel, Doc. I think you are such, you're so detail-oriented and so good at itinerary and planning. I think that that something like that ah is so in your wheelhouse. you would You would be absolute rock star in that regard.
00:33:47
Speaker
Listen, the entire time Tracy was giving her story, her tangent, all I was thinking about is, i just need a map. Of the space and then I'll mark off all the bathrooms where they're located and then I'll plan direct routes. You're adorable. Adorable. I say, go ahead. but No, you just, you would make like, it's it's an, it's an ever evolving map because as you, as you find bathrooms that are effed over you cross it off the map and then it's like, you've leveled up. You, you move on to the next bathroom. See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. like Yes. Like you'd you'd get there like Thursday. Thursday would be like the assessment day. That's right. That's when you would be like you you're you're you're 10,000 footing all of this and figuring that out. And then by like Saturday afternoon, people would be asking you.
00:34:48
Speaker
Exactly. That, that would be the goal. The goal would be to whittle it down to the most reliable route and the most reliable bathroom consistently over the weekend. Sure. I would fucking figure it out.
00:34:59
Speaker
Sure. I believe you. I absolutely. yeah i question whether you'd figure it out in one con, but believe that you would figure it out because there's so much to see and so many places to go.
00:35:15
Speaker
i'd just spend the whole, I'd just spend the whole con figuring out bathrooms. I would miss the con. I would just be in the shitter the whole time. You could, you could, but there's also like timing, like, okay,
00:35:26
Speaker
It is currently 1 p.m. on Saturday, which means getting through the tunnel to get to the Lucas Oil Stadium is going to take me like 10 or 15 minutes longer than it would take me at 10 a.m. on Friday.
00:35:41
Speaker
right So yeah there's there's that factor as well. Like i can't go that way. My body is telling me I need a bathroom sooner than that. So the tunnel is not happening. that means I've got to backtrack and do something else. these are all things that I would take into consideration. Like that's what I'm saying is that i would i i would I would spend the con trying to figure out high traffic flow points, where bathrooms are in relation to that.
00:36:11
Speaker
i Now that I've said all this. No, i listen. The the looks on my face are nothing but pure enjoyment of the knowledge and how right I am of the assessment that you'd be able to do this. And really, so this is, if the people, if anyone from True Dungeon is listening, this is actually what True Dungeon should be all about, is the quest to find the bathrooms. True Dumpin' is what they could call it. True Dumpin'.
00:36:39
Speaker
okay i'm thinking I'm thinking this would be the perfect side quest. I think it would be a terrible side quest. Terrible. oh terrible Okay, we haven't even we haven't even discovered we haven't even discovered the beauty of me doing this. Right, exactly. I mean, I would i would love to see it. Christopher, you know this.
00:36:58
Speaker
and don't have a sense of smell.
00:37:01
Speaker
So this would not be a chore for me. I would not be subject to like the quote unquote worst part of going to a Gen Con bathroom. True. true But the the the other senses are intact and there would be there. There's plenty of damage that can be done with that. I don't know. I've got a I've got a kid. I've seen some shit. Yeah. man Yeah. Literally. Yeah.
00:37:26
Speaker
I have been in the trenches. i have, like I said, been through the worst of it and i never want to do that again. And if if I can, sometimes you can't help it. You eat something or whatever. it I don't want to obviously gross anybody out, but this is something that that that it does come into my mind. and And it did take years for me to really start to think about it because ah of the incidents that happened.
00:37:51
Speaker
Well, see, but it and truthfully, it is a valid point because it's it's not like it's something, you know, that only a select few people do. This is something we all have to deal with. this Yeah.
00:38:03
Speaker
And I'm sure people are sick of this by now, but it is part of Gen Con. And it the other part is finding food. That's the other thing.
00:38:15
Speaker
Like, it where to eat at Gen Con? That's a whole thing. See, I always, I would be, well, for Gen Con food, I would be, i would be very boring in that part of the discussion. Me too.
00:38:28
Speaker
Oh, wait. So were you a mall food court person then? Oh, yes. Hell yeah. all right Because I like, I like familiarity. So I go to Circle Center or i go this, the one that really people still haven't gotten completely is the subway down in the bottom of the Hyatt.
00:38:46
Speaker
So you go to the Hyatt and there's a downstairs, there's a subway, there's an Italian place down there. And it generally is like completely doable. And it's very close. It's just people don't don't don't don't know what's there.
00:38:58
Speaker
And ah so I'm boring that way because I like familiarity with my food. Again, this is related to the bathroom problem. um And if I want to do something special, there's a bucca di beppo.
00:39:11
Speaker
over a little ways down, which I like, which is the Italian place. And ah every time i have to go to Steak and Shake, even though it's awful, I still have to go once every time. It's part of the routine. i haven't had a Steak and Shake in so long, and now that's all I'm going to be able to think about, Tracy. Why would you do this to me? It's right there in the middle of everything. it's It's not great, but...
00:39:39
Speaker
It's there. And the the shakes are cool. so But I'm boring that way. i'm I'm with Chris. I'm a food court type and I just want to get it done. And I want familiar food. I want a Subway. That's what I want. Every lunch I'll have Subway so that I know what I'm getting.
00:39:56
Speaker
And so I don't cause trouble, as you might say. There is a lot to be said for eating familiar when you are in that type of setting.
00:40:07
Speaker
With GameholeCon, I appreciate the food trucks. And I appreciate the fact that they have added in more food trucks and that the options are there. But... That's got some good stuff. Yeah. But I would be lying is if I didn't feel some level of risk in my choices for meals, not because of the food or the food quality, but more of just how is my body going to respond to something that I don't normally eat?
00:40:35
Speaker
yeah um So, yeah. And once I go, I'm like, there's the taco food truck. It's there every year I'm going to that one because i know exactly what I'm getting and I know how I'm going to react to it. okay Consistency is key.
00:40:50
Speaker
It's boring. It's just the way I am. but But yeah, so there's that. Surviving that part of cons is a whole and nother thing. And ah the bigger the con, the trickier it gets. The harder you fall. that's Yeah.
00:41:06
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, so we talked a little bit about the games themselves, but it's worth going through that again, that the idea that... and i ah I do want to like, it's interesting that you guys feel like I'm still rushing through in my Han Cluster game because I feel like I'm just taking my sweet time. Because comparatively, when I when i played like when John Doom and Dave and and Armistice and the other people that I had play Transcendence,
00:41:43
Speaker
while I was finishing it, i was like, we're going to get to this through this in 12 sessions
Pacing and Narrative Balance in Campaigns
00:41:49
Speaker
or less. And by God, I did. And, and just because I didn't want to waste their time. I was asking them to do something Thursday nights every week for 12 weeks. And I felt like that was a tough ask. So I feel like that's why I have this sense of like, Oh, weve got to move. we're gotta to move i I haven't once felt like rushed.
00:42:12
Speaker
um I think there were a couple opportunities ah maybe earlier on in the campaign where we were still trying to figure out our characters a little bit. So we were trying to lean a little bit more into like narrative dialogue opportunities.
00:42:32
Speaker
um But it still didn't necessarily feel rushed. um
00:42:42
Speaker
i I think because...
00:42:47
Speaker
i I feel similarly to how ah Decrees of Horror felt with Gage running it. Mm-hmm. Obviously, you know that there are very specific acts that we need to move through to get to the culmination of this storyline, right? Mm-hmm.
00:43:10
Speaker
Same thing with Decrees of Horror plot point campaign, right? Mm-hmm. I think with that versus like a homebrew setting where you have this vague but somewhat detailed path of events that you want your players to experience and and go through that can be manipulated, ah can be changed, can be influenced.
00:43:39
Speaker
I think that's different than a written plot point campaign. And I feel like the approach to it ends up being different. And that may be where the timeline feels different. Because, for example, comparing the both of you, I know now what it is like for you to run Transcendence. Like, I i understand.
00:44:01
Speaker
Chris has never run a plot point campaign for me. The only campaign that I've ever played in with him was his own making. So two completely different feels. both at home play, but still two completely different feels.
00:44:19
Speaker
That's interesting. and and And a really good point to bring up. i yeah To echo, I've never felt rushed either. um i have i know that I have felt that it There were certain scenes where I like, ooh, I wish to that one could have, we could have explored that maybe a bit more um or so or spent a little bit more time with that.
00:44:45
Speaker
um But I find it interesting that like the things that you... I felt were, i don't know, so either maybe sidetracky or um just fun things to do or dumb things, as you might have might have used a term, were great. I mean, like the the whole the whole sparring ah tournament thing.
00:45:10
Speaker
I was so mad. I was so mad that I couldn't just kick Chris's ass. I was so close. But then, you know, thinking about it more in that moment, I'm like, yeah, OK, he should have fought with Cheryl. That's whatever. Fine. i It's better for the story. I mean, it wasn't I didn't know what was good. All I did was set up the bracket so that it could happen. That's all i wanted to do. For sure. hmm.
00:45:35
Speaker
Mm hmm. But had I knocked him out in the first round, that would have been hilarious. That would have actually been quite funny. It would have been hilarious. but I was close. Yeah. I mean, it's weird because I thought it was fun. But at the same time, at the end of the session, I'm sitting there with Booth and I'm like, I don't know. i was great. the worst It was a lot of fun. I'd rather you felt like a little rushed than bored.
00:46:05
Speaker
And I think that's where it comes from. Like, I don't want you to feel like, oh, what are we doing? You know, like this is, I'm sitting here and I'm, my character isn't involved in this particular thing. So I'm just sitting here watching. And sometimes as a player, I know that's fun too. And sometimes they take the pressure off you as a player. Right. And so I'm like, I get it. But at the same time, I have no idea. I have no way to know.
00:46:29
Speaker
Whether Dot's sitting over there quiet because she's pissed at me or because she's bored out of her mind or because there's something going through her head that she wants to do with Frankie that she's still trying to figure out.
00:46:42
Speaker
You know, i have no idea. and it's stupid because i I just need to just whatever. You know, we're doing – I trust myself, right? Mm-hmm. So I can slow down a little bit more is what you're telling me. Absolutely.
00:46:56
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. I just want you to sit here for years playing this campaign. Where are we at? We're over halfway. We're about halfway through. Yep.
00:47:07
Speaker
Tracy, comparatively, as someone that has been... technically in a campaign for going on eight years now Eight years. Yeah, we we started our GF several months before Magnus was even conceived and he'll be seven this year. so That's a long time.
00:47:33
Speaker
That's a long time. Yep. My kid, my kid is the, my kid is kind of the pre benchmark for how long that, that game has been either running or in production.
00:47:43
Speaker
um so it's not going to go that long, Tracy. It's not going to happen. It will not happen. I won't let it happen. And I think because of how you organize the game and how you pace that,
00:47:57
Speaker
it It forces me to be more invested and and be then pay better attention to what's actually going on. I don't find myself getting nearly as like distracted because I'm like, i i got to i got to focus up here. Otherwise, I'm going miss something important. And let me tell you, i Michael Bolton, we're going to need you focus up now.
00:48:22
Speaker
Christopher? Please continue. um Well, I lost what I was going to say. So thanks a lot. I'm sorry.
00:48:34
Speaker
That's my bad. Well, thank you for participating in this therapy session for Tracy. But. so okay so I actually something to add to that, though, that in regards to what you're saying.
00:48:44
Speaker
And hopefully that will get back on her train. um Like, I can't do that. Like, i I the way in which you run like that.
00:48:56
Speaker
I absolutely I'm ah I'm a complete wet noodle no i don't have that ability to do that um do it as as fast do you mean oh yeah I can I can certainly plan out crack the whip yeah I can I can plan out a campaign um in general arcs and stuff but but to move it at the pace that you're moving it at which is ah just a fine pace um I can't do that. So like my deadlines campaign, we we wrapped it up because I was probably going to have to move.
00:49:34
Speaker
I, what but we were, but we were going to find climax out of it though. Well, okay. Well, so here's the thing. So thing. We were on two years with that game a and I still figured i had probably at least another three months left of regular sessions, maybe four. And that is a complete shot in the dark. Yes. No clue how accurate that would be because i am a victim.
00:49:59
Speaker
I, I succumbed to my own meandering style. So there's no way I would actually really know how, how close I really was to that. But I was forced to just tighten that shit up and compress the end down to like three sessions, which I did.
00:50:18
Speaker
They did feel reasonably satisfying, despite the fact that I can't make bad guys to save my life, apparently, um or save their lives, I guess, in this case. But um and but it wasn't bad. Like, i didn't I didn't feel that they got cheated. i didn't feel like I got cheated better.
00:50:37
Speaker
um But ah but i can't I can't do what you do in that regard. I just, I can't. It doesn't mean my campaigns aren't satisfying, so I would hope. But um I just, that that level of tight, tight focus, I can't do.
00:50:57
Speaker
Yeah, it's, yeah. Anxiety is what it is. it's it's it's the It's the fear of people being bored. I'll tell you how how I will become dissatisfied with this campaign. If we do not get all the ingredients for Frankie's shopping list, I will be sad. I'm not even invested. Zanai as a character is not invested in this. But I, Chris, want to do what needs to be done to get all of these things. I am very much looking forward it.
00:51:29
Speaker
Yeah, I'm looking forward to that one too. Dot, did you remember what you were going to say before I derailed with a Lonely Island reference? Nope. I'm sorry.
00:51:40
Speaker
Yeah, wanted me to focus up and completely made me lose my focus. focus Ta-da! Way to go, ding ding. That's right, for my next jerk. Well, Shock is next, and if I do it right, you guys are, you're going to be like,
00:51:58
Speaker
get so herere I'm excited as a player, but if I get into Frankie headspace, I'm like, man, this shit's going be wild. Oh, it's it's yeah. The fun part about it is I do a whole foreshadowing thing where I basically tell you everything that's going to kill you before you get there. Great.
00:52:20
Speaker
It's so great. Oh, I can't wait.
Note-taking and Session Reflection
00:52:23
Speaker
Anyway, anything else? We've, I mean, we've basically blown out half of our outline here Whatever. We've talked about bathrooms. We touched on everything. We touched on everything. We we hit every single topic point.
00:52:37
Speaker
see See, this is the thing. I'm worried about my audience. I'm sitting here thinking the audience is done with us because this is some bullshit podcast.
00:52:51
Speaker
Thanks for hanging out with us. Whether you're behind the screen, at the table, or lost in your own story, we hope that you found a little inspiration. If you enjoy our tangents, be sure to connect with us on Discord and follow us on socials to keep the conversation going.
00:53:05
Speaker
Until next time.
00:53:18
Speaker
I remembered what it was. It was that I was so pleased with myself for taking such good notes that I had all of the people that we had interacted with that were vivid so far, and I got a Benny for that. That was what I was trying to remember.