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Tangent #9: Friends With Bennies-fits
84 Plays24 days ago
This week, we talk about Bennies in Savage Worlds. It may seem simple, but Bennies are built into the game from the ground up, and do much more in creating the narrative at the table than just what the rules say on paper. We explore (and argue about) some of these subtleties, from the effect of Benny hoarding, to the effect they have on players and their heroes, to how and when they are given out.
Check out the Latest Han Cluster Adventure--The Lost Waltz by John Doom: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/572701/the-lost-waltz
Our Discord: https://discord.gg/BFV9sJDDEX
Han Cluster Sci Fi RPG: https://hancluster.com
Resting Glitch Face: https://open.spotify.com/show/1ijwk9DT8ulqO8RVyrawhN
Bite Size Tales: https://sites.libsyn.com/436095/site
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Transcript
00:00:03
Speaker
Now we're going. No, we're not going yet. Hold on. Got turn off the AC. We're going to turn off the AC. Actually, do that the entire, whenever you're not speaking, Dot, just do that in background.
Introduction to Tabletop Tangents Podcast
00:00:16
Speaker
Hello, friends. Welcome to Tabletop Tangents, a podcast about running tabletop RPGs, writing stories, and sometimes the meandering paths we take in pursuit of creativity and inspiration.
00:00:33
Speaker
Tangent number nine, friends with Benny's fits.
Understanding Bennies in Savage Worlds
00:00:46
Speaker
We're starting right off the bat, aren't we? Yes, we are.
00:00:52
Speaker
We're going to get into this because because the awarding of Benny's, the positive reinforcement, we've we've touched on it a little bit, but i want to i do want to get into that in terms of specifically Chris's sense of humor.
00:01:07
Speaker
But that's we're going to get into that later. But... The episode today, where we're we thought it it would be worth talking about Benny's. It's obviously other podcasts, even and including Savage Interludes, talked about Benny's. We had a whole episode about it.
00:01:26
Speaker
But it's worth talking about more because Benny's are tricky and subtle and they are much, much more than they seem to be on paper. And that's what we're probably, hopefully, going to demonstrate here. i I don't think there's any probably about it. I think that it i think that it is a for sure thing, because i think if there is anything in Savage Worlds that the interpretation of...
00:01:54
Speaker
um just is on the biggest spectrum. It's Benny's. I think that it, one, i think it takes, it takes a little while to learn like your own personal Benny style, so to speak. But then how that, mean, because you,
00:02:11
Speaker
Do Benny's different than I do? And i and ah jokes aside, I don't really have a problem with it. um I have learned to accept that this is your style and I need to operate within the style. And i think it's the same way with everybody else. and i But I love that about it because it's the same game.
00:02:29
Speaker
And there's that much, and it's so open for interpretation like that. Yes, that it is. And so the basics of Benny's obviously are you award them for people playing into their hindrances or making you laugh at the table, or I use them to reward good ideas to find clues or solve problems so that you can know that you're right on the right track. It's instant positive reinforcement. And we're going to get into that. But on paper, they just allow a re-roll. They allow a couple of other things, getting a new action card, getting five PowerPoints back. There's a couple more uses for them. Like if you have a narrative, something that you want to happen, like I need to have a flashlight. Hey, GM, can I spend a Benny to have a flashlight right now? That's absolutely a use for bennies too. That's what they are on paper. But in the in the subtleties of them, it gets crazy.
00:03:29
Speaker
And like like we've talked about before, what they do in practice is what I mentioned, like instant positive reinforcement. They help you reinforce what you want to see at the table.
00:03:42
Speaker
One other thing, too, that's kind of a fundamental thing of what they do is avoiding damage. Oh, yes. Soaking wounds, of course. Big time. But to me, they also, they represent um they represent hope.
00:03:58
Speaker
You know, when um on both sides of the screen. So a failed role. And that can be very disappointing on the player side of things, especially if you really want to do that. And spending that Benny gives you that hope, that second chance ah to make that first impression or that just that second chance to have that impact.
GM Philosophy on Benny Distribution
00:04:20
Speaker
And the same thing on the GM side. And granted, sometimes I think they get you on the GM side, their use is a bit more restrictive and that's okay. But it is also still that hope of make the make the players in the PCs maybe slightly afraid of the opposition they may be facing. yeah And so spending that Benny kind of actually accomplishes two tasks in that, which is also very, I think, kind of a cool aspect of it. One, it gets them scared, especially if you're rerolling damage. um But they also...
00:04:53
Speaker
take satisfaction out of this by knowing that they're draining those relatively finite resources from the game master. So it's it's a fun two-edged sword in that sense. It is. It is. And the crazy stuff starts to come about when you try to look at how how you award bennies. When?
00:05:14
Speaker
Why? and what the philosophy is behind having more bennies on the table versus fewer bennies on the table. And there's, I want to say, legit reasons for all of that, um but I definitely have a very ah very strong philosophy about it that I oftentimes don't realize I'm not following.
00:05:40
Speaker
do you Do you run into that too, Chris? Like where, oh, this is what I think is happening, but I've been reported by players to say this is not actually what's happening with many rewards and having them and spending them and all that.
00:05:56
Speaker
Called out. I got, i get called. I just got, I got called on air and I'm trying to change my ways because of it. So now I'm asking, like, let's, let's have this discussion. So, okay. So what is the question at hand here for me? Do you, do you find that your philosophy of Benny management as a GM, giving them out all that stuff, like is not the actual thing that you are, you do based on player reports? Yeah.
00:06:24
Speaker
Oh, sure. Okay. Do i Okay. So I think a lot of it, I think, depends depends who you ask. um and Or who you are at the table. Okay. See, that's where I was going with this. If you're certain individuals, you... AKA Dot. You like to make a lot of noise about the fact that everyone else gets bennies, except for me, mofo. Correct. So how how come?
00:06:48
Speaker
And while that may or may not have been true... It is. Yeah. i think that I think the problem that I'm having with the question is I'm trying to actually figure out what my own philosophy is when it comes to benny's i don't i don't know I don't know if I necessarily have one. I know certainly i know certainly criteria that I will use.
00:07:11
Speaker
um for handing up pennies. um And I think that to a degree, i do follow that. But I think absolutely, um i slide off the that that initial path fairly quickly once like the adventure gets going.
00:07:29
Speaker
um and And I think this is i think this this is true of a lot of Savage Worlds GMs in the sense that you... you're paying attention for, uh, Benny opportunities, Benny tuneries,
00:07:45
Speaker
the
00:07:48
Speaker
but they, you know, and and, so they come up and so you're water. And sometimes you have it written into your adventure, but a lot of times once things really get into it, you kind of forget that. Cause you, you start focusing on other things. Yeah. Um, and, and, and certainly I know that I've done that and, and,
00:08:05
Speaker
to Dot's point, um you know, I will absolutely admit that that I have ah ignored probably not only her as a player, but other players as well without them being nearly as vocal about it, which of course, you know, makes me feel terrible. Yes.
00:08:21
Speaker
You know, because you want everybody to have have a good experience in that sense. So I don't know. I don't feel like I'm trying not to dodge the question, but I'm also trying to ah see if I'm been answering it correctly.
00:08:33
Speaker
What I find interesting about it is there's a difference between like playing online and playing at the table.
Psychology of Benny Distribution
00:08:42
Speaker
Playing at the table, I can see the stacks usually. Not all the time. Some players are very cagey about how many bennies they have because they they don't want the GM to to see a big stack of bennies and say, you don't need one, right?
00:08:55
Speaker
Which 100% have done. Oh, I do it too. yeah i do it too. yeah But at the same time, I want to see them because, yeah if you have five Bennys, you really don't need one. But if you have one Benny, um I'm going to be much more ah willing to give you one or looking for a reason to give you one.
00:09:14
Speaker
Right. There's there's an interesting psychology that happens with that, though, because the more you give Benny's, the more a lot of players I'm going to I'm going to say that on average, the more you give, the more they spend. Sure. Absolutely.
00:09:34
Speaker
Yes. For sure. i i I would rather be in a position where I've been given a false sense of security and I have that stack of five bennies only for you to whip out a combat that I'm like, why I gotta i ah blow through all of these.
00:09:56
Speaker
i actually really want to get your players perspective on this because you, you, So far, really, I mean, with the with a couple of exceptions, you you predominantly play. yeah So talk about the differences in approaches that you've seen with different GMs when it comes to handing out pennies and other players at the table. Like, i really I really want to hear your players' perspective because I think you have a better better view on that. Well, I think...
00:10:21
Speaker
The way that I just positioned it, I think when you are more... When you more freely acknowledge and give those up give those opportunities to just hand out a Benny, right?
00:10:35
Speaker
And I'm not saying like to the entire table. I'm not saying a round of Bennys gets distributed because those are... That almost seems more like a plot vehicle to me. Like, okay, we've finished this thing. We're going to be moving on to the next stage of the adventure. We're doing a clock reset. Everyone gets a
Managing Bennies in Gameplay
00:10:54
Speaker
Benny, right? Like that's how that always ends up feeling to me.
00:10:58
Speaker
But that ist hold on. Is that good or bad? I think that's okay. Okay. I don't think that's a bad thing. I think that it is a I think it's good from a GM organizational standpoint, because that at least allows you to have like marker points of the adventure.
00:11:18
Speaker
Because if you have because if you have people that, you know, let's say a con event and you've got some newer players at the table that aren't as.
00:11:30
Speaker
up to just making jokes and earning bennies that way. Right. And you have to be able to give them something for their time at the table. And bennies are a good vehicle to do that.
00:11:44
Speaker
So it's a good marker for progression of the adventure. When you have those kind of like written in moments, like at this point, I'll give everybody a Benny, regardless of how many they have.
00:11:59
Speaker
Yeah, i just I don't even think of it as ah as a marker in the adventure. I just think of it as, ah oh man, everybody's spending a lot of bennies. I should give them all bennies. And so I wait for good time to do that. It's not unappreciated. Yeah, but that makes sense. But with more seasoned GMs like the two of you, it's easier to look at it from that perspective.
00:12:24
Speaker
like For me, i would get... i as I do get so overwhelmed with every little intricate thing. Yes.
00:12:35
Speaker
That sometimes that's not the thing that's at the forefront of my mind. So I have to like have that mental note of I need to give out Benny's at some point. Like I need to i I need to remember to do that. yeah Because if there isn't somebody at the table that, you know, knows what the heck they're doing, then they're not going to call out. Oh, yeah, he deserves a Benny. You know what i mean? hmm.
00:12:59
Speaker
i i i I feel like I do both because I do engage in that. Yes, you do. In that this is this is a a a marking point. Scene completed. Everybody gets a Benny. Yes. You're about to go into this. Everybody takes a Benny. Yep. And I will usually write those in.
00:13:17
Speaker
Tracy, you may not realize it, but you do as well to a degree. I do. I know I do. Yeah. yeah And and that that's by design. i also love Joker's Wild because of that. Because ah people who are new or tend to not give them out, Joker's Wild sort of kind of forces you to give them out because players are expecting them because it's part of the rules.
00:13:41
Speaker
And um i I think that's valuable. I think it's it's for for GMs who don't give them out very much. And that's Shane. How good is that feeling, though, when you get when you get that when that draw comes up on the players? It's such a relief.
00:13:56
Speaker
Or remember that time that we were playing your Horizon game last year at Gamehole and I got two Jokers and then there was a third Joker that was pulled and it was it skipped Chris.
00:14:10
Speaker
Yeah. I do remember that time. There were Jokers on either side of Christopher. He got none. Yes. And I put i put three Jokers in the in the deck for Horizon. that's ah That's a deliberate design choice because the the the PCs are meant to to synergize with um some leadership edges and some you know mighty blow edges and some deadshot edges and stuff. And I want that to come up for the one shot. So I put an extra Joker. and Not four. Four I found is too much. But three is just right. so so It was magical. It was a magical moment for me. And I remember four Chris being skipped. It was like Shane was looking over me like, yes, this one. She she is the chosen. It's fine.
00:15:01
Speaker
But I like Joker's Wild because it forces me to give bennies and it reminds me. It's it's part of the mechanics, right? Yeah. And i forget and I'm trying to be better. I'm trying to give more. And here's why i think more is better. I really do. My philosophy is more is better, even if i don't practice it as well as I'd like.
00:15:22
Speaker
Bennies are not that powerful. Yeah. When it comes down to it, they're just they they they allow you to do things. They allow you to, oh my gosh, I really should be good at this. I want to spend a Benny to be good at it.
00:15:36
Speaker
They allow you to re-roll when it's a critical thing, but they don't allow you necessarily to sail through the adventure because you could easily spend three Bennys on a roll and not succeed. Mm-hmm.
00:15:49
Speaker
Easily, especially when you've got negatives. So, I mean, don't know. The real power comes from conviction, which is a different thing. Conviction with bennies. Yes. I mean, oh my gosh, that's power. You want power, there you go. And it's great to have it. But bennies should be should be more... I think in most games, bennies should be pretty free-flowing because they just don't...
00:16:18
Speaker
They allow you to feel that sense of agency, like having the stack there. Even if you don't spend them, it allows you to, I get to choose when I spend them.
00:16:29
Speaker
I get to choose when my character is going to be good at something. And even if it doesn't work, it usually does. you know I agree for the most of that. Yeah.
00:16:41
Speaker
for most of that i I'm also definitely in favor of more bennies as well. But I think that that has to be, it has to be reciprocal because if, you know and and i and I even, when I when i do my my Savage World spiel at the table and we talk about bennies, I make that point, say, I like to be generous and I make an effort to be generous, but that generosity has to be returned yeah because if it's not,
00:17:12
Speaker
if it's not um free flow free flowing, then they can become quite powerful. Yeah. Because if you've got somebody who has a stack of seven bennies, the the size of that cushion can't be understated.
The Balance and Economy of Bennies
00:17:28
Speaker
They can easily go ahead and spend three of those to get that raise on whatever roll that is or to get that perfect damage roll. And then they still have four bennies left over, you know, and that's, that's, that's still a decent amount.
00:17:42
Speaker
So it's, it needed the economy of that does need to be regulated. And you as the fed chair, um you know, need to regulate that, that Benny economy. See, and that's, that's where I get, that's where I have to like, actually think about that for a second, because I don't think that there's ever been an instance where I've had any more than like four Bennys consistently. You spend like crazy though. Yeah. Yeah. yeah And Tracy's absolutely right. because And that's to Chris's point, right? Yeah. You you you know how to spend those. and I've been trained. you know i Yeah. Yes and no. I think that...
00:18:29
Speaker
I think that that says a lot about your playing style um in that, you know, i don't know. I mean, i get it because you learn by watching others around you, but you you have a a sense of aggression at the table, and not over aggression, but when you really want something, you're you're going to spend those bennies to get it.
00:18:51
Speaker
yeah So I think you're very i think you're very surgical in in how you spend your bennies. Or I will mouth my way to getting it. i will figure out a way to be convincing to the GM and be like, and I, I will,
00:19:05
Speaker
I will try my best to get my point across. That is an extremely excellent segue. Thank you for that, Dot. As we talk about, so the rewarding of Benny's.
00:19:20
Speaker
So the book does outline a few ways to do that. um And those are those are good guidelines, but it's really left open for interpretation. Mm-hmm.
00:19:32
Speaker
um For me, sometimes I will lay out certain criteria, um particularly when it comes to deadlines. But, you know, i like you said earlier, i love good ideas.
00:19:46
Speaker
I love, um yep humor at the table for sure. Or those particular moments when... um
00:19:56
Speaker
just something is done that's just very cool. A cool description. um An absolutely epic roll sometimes will earn a Benny or even and on the other end of the spectrum.
00:20:07
Speaker
ah the The occasional crit fail ah will also earn a Benny, I think, at that time. But the one... And I do want to hear, I want to hear how you go at this as well.
00:20:19
Speaker
um Tracy and Dodd, for that matter. The one thing I do like, especially at, especially at table con event tables, because I think that this is, it really helps to, it's a good team building exercise in this way is players advocating for other players to get a Benny.
00:20:38
Speaker
um And I like it for double reason. One, because it does that. So you have players looking out for their players. So-and-so just did, are you kidding? So-and-so so just did this. They deserve it. Come on, give him a penny. Don't be so stingy. Give him a penny.
00:20:52
Speaker
But on the other side, also it takes some of the work off my plate. yeahp because I absolutely miss a lot of things at the table. Don't even realize that certain things that happen. Don't even realize that somebody had this really good idea or said this certain thing because I'm focusing on other stuff.
00:21:10
Speaker
So having those players fight for yeah their fellow players um and calling it to my attention, I actually appreciate that quite a bit. um And I can't, it's hard for me to think of a time when I didn't reward a Benny because ah for you know player ab advocacy. um But yeah, that's I think that's one of my favorite ways is seeing other players players do that for other players.
00:21:35
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I like it too. And I certainly have done it. um Like I say, that there's there's lots of reasons to give them. I've given bennies for somebody ah putting...
00:21:47
Speaker
M&Ms in the middle of the table for us all to eat, you know? like Yeah. I've done this at Con Events because it doesn't matter. It's just a Benny, right? and ah that's fun. They remember that. It's fun. Everybody, you know, I don't know. That's part of the experience at the table.
00:22:08
Speaker
But also the good ideas, the ones that advance plot in a way that I'm hoping for, i give Benny's for that because I want to positively reinforce what you're doing. And if if you make me laugh, for sure. Here's the thing about bad jokes, though. I i i just hate I have no idea what you're talking about. I so hate them that I will i will stubbornly refuse to give bennies for them.
00:22:33
Speaker
But I shouldn't do that. I shouldn't. um I mean, i should be i should be careful about it, but i i people are if they're just trying to be themselves. They're trying to make their jokes, and I don't want to be like all crazy Tracy who just hates dad jokes.
00:22:52
Speaker
So I'm trying to be better about that. And the thing about Chris, his revelation of Airplane being like the formative comedy of his life, and that opens me up to be like, oh, okay.
00:23:06
Speaker
sure Okay, now I'm more willing to give a baby. It does. It makes it it it it makes sense. So i'm i i I try. i try. But sometimes, like everybody else, we forget and we get caught up in it. And we think we want it to be hard or whatever and blah, blah, blah. And the thing is, it doesn't change.
00:23:26
Speaker
it doesn't it doesn't change I know. I'm ignoring it again because I don't want to reward it. But yeah you but yet you didn't. You didn't ignore it. That's the thing.
00:23:40
Speaker
absolutely ignored it. You didn't ignore it. The instinct is to just blow right past it. And I shouldn't.
00:23:50
Speaker
I shouldn't. I'm the straight man of this podcast. I... So, but now a counterpoint to, to what you're saying and and certainly what you're saying about, about, you know, my jokes or whatever, or even just my efforts to try get a Benny when we're playing Han Cluster.
00:24:11
Speaker
um I have come to actually appreciate the way in which you run games. And there is a there is a challenge level there that forces me to think a bit more about the choices I want my character to make. yeah yeah So where I could be very flippant and just be tossing bennies,
00:24:33
Speaker
I now have to think about it a little bit. Yeah. And I kind of like that. And it is a, it's a different flavor of Savage Worlds for me. And I really don't, I really don't think there's anything wrong with it.
00:24:46
Speaker
So sure. Yeah, absolutely. Keep throwing pennies my way. What are you talking about? But at the same time, it's okay if you don't, I mean, it doesn't really, doesn't, it doesn't bother me. It doesn't bother me as much.
00:24:58
Speaker
Um,
00:25:00
Speaker
And that's all got say about that. I mean, I like that too as a player. i like it to a degree.
Strategies for Spending Bennies
00:25:07
Speaker
Like I don't want to be so starved that I feel like I have to fail every role until I get into a critical situation.
00:25:19
Speaker
And sometimes I do feel that starved and I don't like that so much. But I want to feel starved enough or at least not starved, but like having to manage it enough that I'm like, is this important enough?
00:25:33
Speaker
Do I need to make every notice roll really? Because if if if I have too many, I'll just spend for notice rolls I don't need to make. And that that that's kind of, it it defeats the purpose of it. its it's It's like sometimes failing is what happens, right? But if you have just enough, you can succeed at the stuff that's really important to you.
00:25:58
Speaker
Or save your bennies like I have in Red Tide for Shane's game. I save my bennies for soak rolls a lot because I have the Holy Warrior edge, which allows me just to um soak and then spend PowerPoints to get pluses to that soak roll.
00:26:14
Speaker
So i'm I'm really tough, right? I mean, i can I can get a plus four to the soak roll because I have 25, 30 PowerPoints. It's insane what I can do.
00:26:24
Speaker
But I save some benis for those soak rolls because that way I can stay in the fight in ways that others can't, right? But it means that when I roll my you know faith or whatever to do a, I don't know, a light spell or whatever, I'm not going to get the raise and I have to live with it.
00:26:42
Speaker
You know, and those are the choices I make. And I like that. I kind of like it. I don't like to be too starved, but I like to have a little bit of management going on. I get the sense that Dot disagrees.
00:26:55
Speaker
No, I don't necessarily disagree. it's a weird It's a weird balancing act because, like, as a player... there There are going to be those times where you say the funny thing and the GM doesn't hear it because they're paying attention to somebody else that's asking about the rules that are way less important than the funny thing that I just said. Oh, of course. and And then it's like, okay, well...
00:27:23
Speaker
There I go. I lost one of my opportunities. But then on the flip side of that, there are times where like you get some really good role play going and it's just like candy.
00:27:40
Speaker
And then it that back and forth begins to really happen. think... i think
00:27:50
Speaker
Probably and what what comes to mind is couple different instances. But like Chris with having a clue, I feel like that adventure is so well written for Benny spends back and forth just because of.
00:28:13
Speaker
the nature of the adventure, the story that's unfolding, and how the players interact with it. Because there are so many opportunities for them to want that extra edge, while also there's still so many opportunities for them to gain Benny's back, right?
00:28:37
Speaker
Right. that That one sticks out fairly. like off the top of my mind. And then Tracy with Han cluster, there's been a number of times where like I've failed at something that I really wanted. I failed in ah classic dot fashion at pivotal moments when you don't want to F up.
00:28:59
Speaker
Right. Like i ah I screwed up in front of Haley Preston for crying out loud. That was devastating. And then I fixed it and I got a Benny for it. And, and I felt just a little bit better, but you know, it's just, it's, I don't think that there is a right or a wrong way to do it. I mean, i I kind of really like the idea of handing out bennies and just getting piles to people like five or six, right? Everybody at the table has like five or six bennies and they have this false sense of security. Like this has been pretty easy up to this point. And she's handing out bennies like it's nothing. Wow. Okay. What the hell is this girl's problem? And then you just whack them.
00:29:56
Speaker
I've done it. You just take them all out. And then if you actually kill a player or two, man, wouldn't that just be so nice? I gave you all these bennies, guys. What happened? Yeah. Harry Potter's like that.
00:30:09
Speaker
So the game that I that I that would give me such a sense of satisfaction. there's There's plenty of opportunities to spend them, but I'm building you up. to something.
00:30:20
Speaker
And at the end, it's just, whoa, man. And, and they're spinning them like crazy at the end. And that's, that's, if you've got a good, i mean, it's not, it's not, it it doesn't have to be this way, but a really well plotted one shot can do this at a con in a way that is magical.
00:30:44
Speaker
Where, i mean, teen crushes like this too, where where i'll just they'll just build up and then they're just having to spend them like crazy, but they have them.
00:30:55
Speaker
And they can, and they do, and they they get they get their benefits from it, right? And now all of a sudden we only have one left. Man, what happened to them all? I had eight bennies here.
00:31:06
Speaker
And I'm like, I don't know, you spent them, I suppose. And so I've done it, and it's great. It's great when it happens. It's great when it's when it feels right. um but it only generally happens at cons. I don't generally have to do that. It doesn't happen in campaign mode.
00:31:24
Speaker
Usually. um I do want to comment just a little bit more on one of the points that that was bringing up, because to me, this is so jokes. scene changes,
00:31:36
Speaker
um obviously the the Joker and everything like that. To me, those are very easy, low-hanging fruit ways to acquire the bannies. But you talking about... and it's and it's in your outline, and so I'm actually very glad that you brought up that point, Dot. But the...
00:31:55
Speaker
the motivation to to role play and to get into character and to do in character things, even if it's just dialogue, yeah um to earn those bennies, you know that that motivation, ah that to me, that's like the the really good ripe fruit you know higher on that tree. And I love seeing players do that. And so,
00:32:20
Speaker
And that's like some of the stuff that I really look out for. And you're right. And it was one of the first times I ran having a clue where we had the introduction scene and everybody's just like, I was, it's like, I wasn't even there. Everybody was just all of a sudden going into character and just chewing up scenery everywhere. And I was in that game. It was it was a beautiful moment. It was. They just made a freaking meal of it. And then there was like this moment where everybody just stopped for a second. And I was like, you know, we could just do this for the next three hours. And then I could toss the adventure because I'm having way too much fun watching you guys. And I gave them all out of Benny because they were just in how quickly they did. That was. um And so.
00:33:05
Speaker
I don't know if it's Savage Worlds that does that, if it's the Bennys
Role of Bennies in Roleplaying and Creativity
00:33:08
Speaker
that do that. if it's I'm not sure where some of that comes from. I'm not going to say it's my writing or the adventure structure that does it. I think there's something about the game intangibly that we can't put our fingers on to motivate people to do that. I don't know what it is, but it it happens a lot in Savage Worlds games. And it'ss it's really it's really fun to see. i don't know. I enjoy it. There have been a couple of instances that i can like that. I just very vividly remember the Benny receiving being well earned.
00:33:47
Speaker
And that was one of them. So having a clue for sure. But then um the last stand district Han Cluster, the way that the way that my character, Frankie, reacted to everything. And that was a tough moment for me personally. and Even with how I chose to have my character engage, you still rewarded me with a Benny because of what I chose to do that that still avoided the conflict, but supported the moment.
00:34:24
Speaker
Um, and then going further back, ah in Warrior Needs Food bad Badly. The first time that I played that, I stumped Chris with the the quandary of the warrior at the end. And I got a Benny for that.
00:34:41
Speaker
And I was like, ha, ha, ha, ha. Plot hole found. bull Pretty much. Yeah. It was great. Because, i like...
00:34:53
Speaker
it's It's going back to that moment and remembering him being like, oh, wait a minute. Yeah, there's been moments like that in Doping Dolphin I've had at cons where, oh, the best thing is when I know the character and I know what they're going to do, like the the the NPC, right? And this is a mystery we're trying to solve. This is a suspect and to them, right? And they're trying to manipulate the situation so they can...
00:35:25
Speaker
find out things or put put the suspect in ah in a particular social situation that might reveal something or whatever. And I know what they're going to do. I know who they are. I know their motivations. I know what's actually going on. And when they do something that messes with that, that that I'm like, oh,
00:35:45
Speaker
Do that. I really want you to do that. give I'm going to give you a Benny if you do it. And it it tells them that there's something cool coming, something they're probably not going to expect, but that will be fun.
00:35:59
Speaker
Right? And so they take the Benny, of course, because it's, first of all, it's a Benny. And second of all, because they know that they've they've inspired in me something that's like, that I've not, that I don't usually get in these games. Mm-hmm.
00:36:13
Speaker
And i love those moments and they happen and they're you can't plan them. You just got to have to be a GM who can go with it and know your adventure well enough and know your characters well enough to be able to just react.
00:36:29
Speaker
It's the best moment of these games. And to me, that doesn't happen unless I've done some planning first. That's a whole other episode, but I can't just improv my way into that stuff.
00:36:42
Speaker
i It is improv, but I have to have a baseline in order to do it. And when bennies get flowing because of that stuff, it's the best feeling ever.
00:36:52
Speaker
Best thing ever. You sort of... um ah hinted at something and you you're specifically specifically calling me out in the outline a little bit here which and i will totally admit i absolutely do this um i'm not saying it's bad no well and i i neither am i and i'm the one who does it um the the temptation to get players to spend them Oh, yeah. We both do that. But from what I've heard, you do it in a way that's different.
00:37:22
Speaker
I, well, yeah, i I like to engage in a lot of the, you know, are you sure tactics? are you You want to stick with that sort of thing? do that too. um Or the, you know, you could spend a penny and you might get in a higher number. It's very possible, you know. um And,
00:37:42
Speaker
compounding that i well, yeah, I, I very actively engage in temptation towards my players and when they do spend that Benny, will then make a much, I'll make a big show of it as well. How much I'm enjoying the fact that they're spending the day and if you,
00:38:05
Speaker
a little peek behind the house curtain there. it's I do it for a couple of different reasons. um One, because we're in the spirit of the game. We're trying to have a good time. I'm goofy. They're being goofy. you know So let's let's try it. let's Let's be goofy together. But at the same time, i want them to feel encouraged to spend ah in that sense. And so if I'm tempting them and they do decide to to do it, I want them to get a payoff I from me as the GM that I'm happy that they did what they did, yeah even if even if they fail the role. You know, there there is there is a bit of a method to that as far as as far as I go. But but yes, I actively will try and tempt them to do it. I will, too. And I think this the subtle difference
00:38:53
Speaker
that that I want to point out. And I'm not saying that you do this, but you you've hinted that you do it a little bit. um I know that Shane does it, but I don't. And is benny I call it Benny Fairness, right? It may be not a good term for it, but but I tend to be very, very upfront about whether spending a Benny would benefit you or not.
00:39:18
Speaker
So when I say, are you sure you don't want to you know spend a penny? I mean, i'm just I'm just asking. You don't have to, but you might. I don't know. don't know. I instantly know that that's a cue from Tracy. I probably should spend the penny. I should probably get the better role.
00:39:34
Speaker
I'm very careful to say you don't have to. know you do. I know you do. What I'm getting at is there's a there's a there's a probable benefit in it for you if you do, if you get the raise, right? Or or if you get a better number, if you're setting a target for a posed role or whatever. like You get a six you like, are you happy with your six? you know They're going to roll a pose. They got a wild die. I don't But it I'm very careful to to to lay out that they have all the information that I have.
00:40:08
Speaker
We don't know what the role is going to be. there They know that there's a risk that they might not get the role that they want, but that's the risk. Otherwise, they know generally that there's probably going to be some kind of benefit for doing it.
00:40:23
Speaker
um And and and they there's nothing ambiguous about that. but So in that sense, I don't roll behind the screen. I tend to roll tend to roll in front of the screen. So if I'm setting a target for somebody who's testing you or whatever, and I say there's an eight, that's to what you have to beat.
00:40:42
Speaker
then you know whether spending penny might or might not be useful to you, right? opposed to if you roll behind the screen and then you say, well, you've got a six there. You don't know what I've got. you're going to spend a penny or, you know, do you want to spend a penny? And I feel like if I hold back information that I have that you don't, it's it's it doesn't feel good.
00:41:06
Speaker
if If there's if there's an obvious... situation may be obvious to me. I should, should clarify that. If there's an obvious to me situation where the player doesn't need to spend the Benny, um, I will then actively encourage them to not spend the Benny.
00:41:25
Speaker
I say that too. I say don't spend a Benny on this. Yeah. You don't need, you don't need to spend a Benny on this. Save it. You're going to, you know, it's fine. Um, there's enough, there's either enough success or enough raises around the table. yes You don't need, you don't need to bother.
00:41:37
Speaker
Um,
00:41:40
Speaker
But that it has to be blatantly obvious to me. Otherwise, otherwise, i again, i want them spent because I always have at least one or two players at my table who always got the stack.
00:41:53
Speaker
And i want to trim the stacks ah to a certain set because I know I'm also going to hand them out because it's. yeah i'll get the I'll get those tables where I have two players who have stacks of six, and then I will get the other three players who are down to two, maybe be one.
00:42:11
Speaker
And that's that's imbalance. And Benny Balance, Benny Fairness, I want to try and even certain things out as, you know, can't.
00:42:23
Speaker
Fed chair Hussman trying to control the Benny economy, you know, by raising rates and doing things, making adjustments here. Yes. So, but that's, that's very few and far between, you know, i if, if they, even if they have a stack and it's an obvious thing, I don't want them to spend it. They don't need to do that.
00:42:40
Speaker
That intangible thing where a player, you spent a resource and then they realize after the fact they did not have to do that. that's That's a disappointment that I'd like to try and avoid. If you still made the choice and yep, your damage roll just wasn't great or you just didn't get the success, that's a different kind of choice. Again, they made that choice.
00:43:01
Speaker
But you're trying to mitigate those types of disappointments. I feel this is is my responsibility to a degree. Yeah, me too. And that's why i'm i'm like, I'm very upfront about that. So if if you know, if it's an opposed role and they're initiating according to the rules, they should show what they rolled.
00:43:20
Speaker
And then you have to, you, you know what you have to beat. Right. I don't like that Shane hides cards, even though it's totally, you know, legitimate interpretation of the rules, because I want to know whether it's, whether they have an ace or whether they have a two so that I know whether spending a Benny is worth it. If you make me spend a Benny for, for no reason, they have an ace anyway, i would feel cheated.
00:43:46
Speaker
So um I don't do that. I don't do it. um Because bennies are precious in
Impact of Open Rolling on Bennies
00:43:52
Speaker
that way. they should I think they should be useful, even if, given the fact, like we've said, we don't know what we're going to roll. So if you are going for the raise, you don't get the raise, well, who could have...
00:44:04
Speaker
Predicted that. There's no way to know. you know It's a risk you take when you spend a penny, but I tend to not hold back information or at least hints that there's something to come if you do get something special about your role um to let you know.
00:44:21
Speaker
And if it's not worth spending one, i will absolutely outright say don't spend a penny on this. Truly, don't don't do it ah because you're just wasting it at this point. um So, yeah. you You do realize you are slowly but surely wearing me down to encourage me to roll out in the others on the player's side of the screen and not behind the screen. You don't have to. oh i But see, and we as we've in the over the course of just nine episodes,
00:44:50
Speaker
As we've talked about this, because I'm very much a behind the screen roller. And I will also admit I i do fudge rolls. Yeah, i sit I sit on the side of you and I will watch you do And I'm like, okay, mofo. don't say anything. no But there are definitely times where I'm like... as well yeah Alright, buddy.
00:45:10
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I don't do it anymore. I just let it happen. It's because Chris is notorious for shit rolls. That's the problem. Well, okay, so there in that I don't normally fudge rolls to benefit me in the sense of I hit you even if I didn't hit you. or i exploded I exploded damage even when I rolled three ones. um But...
00:45:37
Speaker
there i think i think I think I'm just a ah massive coward. i just don't i don't know what what it is that I'm afraid of to keep it behind. Probably just a control freak sort of i understand. i used to do it when I was baby GM.
00:45:52
Speaker
I'm not saying you're baby GM, but I used to do it.
00:45:57
Speaker
I used to do it and I changed my ways. In the land of subtle digs, Tracy, that was beautiful. No, no, no, no. It's so gratifying because if you trust it, if you trust the system, sure when you're rolling out in the open, everybody there's no...
00:46:14
Speaker
Everybody knows the truth of it. And if you explode, you explode. And they're just like, oh man, okay. And if you roll a crit fail, you can't hide it.
00:46:25
Speaker
yeah You can't hide it. You've got to deal with it, right? And and that's great. My dice don't even need to show the crit fail. My face immediately does. Yeah, because it's the immediate silence for like 15 seconds. And we all realize, okay.
00:46:40
Speaker
That or the very out like the very loud outburst of explicatives. Yeah. But it brings out what's great about Savage Worlds. Because what's great about it is that somebody at some point is going to explode.
00:46:55
Speaker
And it might happen at the least expected time. And the most impactful time. And when that happens out in the open, there's nothing quite like that.
00:47:09
Speaker
Because you've seen it. The truth of it is out there. when the when when the When somebody explodes on something that it's massive and seeing it right in front of you makes it even more massive.
00:47:24
Speaker
And I think that honestly is where the, you you talked about the powers of Benny's, the powerfulness of Benny's or lack thereof. I think that's actually where the real power of Benny's is, is in allowing more opportunities for that to happen. Mm-hmm.
00:47:41
Speaker
You know, because you can go from getting onesie twosie on your roll and then you spend that Benny and suddenly both dice explode four times, you know, and now you're staring at like a 33 or something like that. And you have just swung that pendulum hard the other way and everybody is suddenly thrilled at the table. Yes. Yeah, it's...
00:48:04
Speaker
It's a glorious moment. and And that is one of the cool things about Benny's is that they allow the opportunities for that to happen much more than they would if they weren't there. Yep.
00:48:15
Speaker
Yep. That said, I've heard people um who aren't so much into Savage Worlds say why they don't like it and is because of Benny's.
Meta Nature and Immersion Concerns with Bennies
00:48:26
Speaker
And I've asked why. And the the answer tends to be that it's too meta.
00:48:33
Speaker
that it that it that it it takes away immersion. And the thing is, I like it because it's meta, even though I tend to be very wanting it to be immersive, meaning I don't want as a player to have to help the GM construct the world.
00:48:50
Speaker
i hate that. Don't like it. Don't want it. Don't like it. I want to react to the world as my character. But Benny's, I'm all on board with because it allows me, the player, to help guide my character's story.
00:49:07
Speaker
See, and I'm very much the same way. For someone who likes as the world to feel as real... um as it can be and there is a definitely a certain there's a certain word for that which i'm not even gonna bother trying to pronounce this i've i've i've i've had add drink and there's no way i'm gonna be able to say a verisimilitude but Very good. how You like that? Thank you. know So, and and they they are, Bennys are incredibly meta.
00:49:42
Speaker
And they really should absolutely pull you out of that that realism that you're trying to create as world in the world. Yet conversely,
00:49:54
Speaker
they absolutely give you the ability to tell a very good story in that world. Um, by through their use, whether you're spending them to alter the story slightly or spending them to get a better role to tell a better story, um or even to spend them and then inadvertently have it become a critical failure.
00:50:17
Speaker
You know, it, it it makes for a stronger story overall. And then in turn makes that world feel much more real.
00:50:27
Speaker
You know, that's, those are the kinds of stories that people like to hear about. They don't necessarily like to hear about the stories of people who just completely stumble through and fail at every turn because they just couldn't get four, you know, on a six sided die. yeah,
00:50:45
Speaker
And so despite the fact that they are absolutely meta, I think that they do in their own way, create more immersion in the world. And, that and, and, and yeah, they I've never felt that they pull, pull me out or pull the players out.
00:51:02
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say that argument doesn't make any sense to me because I feel like the same people that would say that they don't like Benny's because they're too meta are the same people that would take 20 minutes in a one shot to go over a very intricate rule thing.
00:51:21
Speaker
And that would completely take me out of my immersion. So like, you know. yeah i don't know. i don't know if if that's true, but. ah um making I'm making a very stark association of judgment. Sure, sure. I don't know. i i I've played games where the role is the role, and it's it's tough for me.
00:51:47
Speaker
It's tough. like it It requires a system that allows the the failures to somehow mean more or something, or it requires a GM who can acrobatics their way through process.
00:52:13
Speaker
I don't know, somehow feeling like a success. that that's it's It's not true, but that's that's how I feel about it. Just because I'm so used to them, I guess. I'm just indoctrinated. so that's That's the other thing. playing playing When you switch games and you play in games where there's not strong amounts of metacurrency like this...
Fear of Playing Without Bennies
00:52:35
Speaker
um that becomes to a certain degree a little terrifying. um You know, and even even something like like fifth edition with inspiration, you just get that one single point.
00:52:48
Speaker
um And when it's gone, sometimes it can be very hard to earn back. yeah And now you're practicing. Now you're playing the two twos. It's gone and you didn't get anything out of it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And that's the thing. You can't re-roll that. That's, yeah, that inspiration, it's out. Yeah. um And it's, I don't want to have it sound like a negative saying that now suddenly you're playing a game without a net because Benny's, they are a net to a certain degree, but they're more like a fun net as opposed to a safety net, I think, than...
00:53:22
Speaker
um than anything else but yeah it it is a very weird it's a very weird feeling to play in other games that don't have metacurrency like that um and and slightly scary which i want to ask before because i know we're coming up on time but i've been i've been i've been sitting on this question the whole time and i want to ask you both of you When it comes to Benny, and I want people to answer in the Discord. this is This is a legitimate question since most of us do play Savage Worlds. wheres
00:53:55
Speaker
When it comes to Benny's, where does your fear threshold begin to kick in with like a number of Benny's? When do you start getting nervous with the number of Benny's that you have?
00:54:06
Speaker
You know what i mean? So like where where do you get scared? Like, oh, geez, I've only got X number of Benny's left. I got to be really careful.
00:54:17
Speaker
Like what's your number? It depends whose game I'm playing. Right. But if if if I'm playing in Shane's game, if I get, I mean, only start with three. That's how I feel. I only start with three.
00:54:30
Speaker
i'm i'm not I'm not funny enough or clever enough or buddy fucker enough. You're welcome, Dot. Whoa, nearly the end of the episode. I know. Wow. To earn bennies that way.
00:54:47
Speaker
i'm just i do sometimes, but I'm not as funny as Daryl or Mike. or I'm not. i'm i'm I'm the straight person. Agree to disagree. Yeah. So i I tend to not earn them very much. And three feels like not enough. so you're like Two is when I really start to get scared. Okay. All right.
00:55:08
Speaker
Okay. Dot? That's my long answer. yeah None. When I have no bennies, then I'm worried. Because usually... I mean, usually I'll hover around one or two. So that's like comfort zone for me, I guess. I can make do. It's fine.
00:55:29
Speaker
ah But yeah, if I don't have any bennies and then we go into like a combat or something and then I only maybe get one at the beginning of that, I'm like, oh, fuck yeah i got I gotta to make some choices. Yeah. That's legit. Well, I'm actually surprised because I thought I was going to have the lowest number here. But but yeah, you kind of blew me out of the water. Tracy, you and I are on the same boat, basically, two.
00:55:57
Speaker
So when I met two, that's when I'm like, oh, geez. You can't just willy-nilly spin bennies. Yeah, because I know i know one of those two bennies. I'm not going to get us a better roll out of one of those. Like my my dice rolling is such that i know 50% of this is not to help me. So I've effectively only got one Benny left. It's great when you do get it out of him, though, when those two Bennys really count.
00:56:21
Speaker
I want to go back through my um notebook because i i i don't keep like a physical thing for Benny. Tracy, I know that this is going to like... just absolutely drive you crazy fine it's fine i don't i don't have like a physical token or chip that i use to grab one out the holler box i gave you holler i know i just do tally marks in my notes so when i use a benny i cross off a tally if i get a benny i add a tally to the chris don't look at me like that and what the hell is wrong with you
00:56:59
Speaker
I have a stack of five, six Benis sitting right here on my desk. And I'm not even my my Savage World stuff is in a box. Sorry, I'm not as fucking cool as you, man. Listen, this is my system and it works. OK, buddy.
00:57:15
Speaker
I want to go back through my notes from other adventures and I want to see how consistently I ended a session with any Benis at all. Because i'll I'll be able to see how many I crossed off. Like how many I got and then crossed off throughout the game. oh See, now that's cool.
00:57:33
Speaker
See? Yeah, fuck you. Tracy breaks the gate open and now you're all suddenly it becomes F-bomb land. boy. No, no, no.
00:57:44
Speaker
I mean, you have... oh It's fine. It's fine. I do keep track of fatigue with tallies. And wounds with tally marks. But not bannies. Come on.
00:57:57
Speaker
I don't know. You can't fling a tally across the table.
Episode Wrap-Up and Listener Engagement
00:58:01
Speaker
yeah who am i fling Who am I flinging pennies at? You can only whack a tally. That's it. Okay. Can I get a penny for that one?
00:58:10
Speaker
I mean, sure. know, that's the new Tracy. Giving pennies for stupid ass jokes.
00:58:23
Speaker
Thanks for hanging out with us, whether you're behind the screen, at the table, or lost in your own story. We hope that you found a little inspiration. Or Benny. If you enjoy our tangents, be sure to connect with us on Discord and follow us on socials to keep the conversation going.
00:58:38
Speaker
Until next time.
00:58:50
Speaker
Did you notice on the announcements for movie night that I hit you with a candle emoji for telling you everybody we're watching Wicked? I did notice that. Yes. Thank you.
00:59:01
Speaker
Thank you for that. You're welcome.