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Tangent #12: The Challenge of Genre
58 Plays2 days ago
This week Dot and Tracy talk about the contrast between the expectations of traditional and established genres, and the sometimes wildly different ideas of what we want to get out of them for ourselves. It's an esoteric conversation that delves into fantasy, sci-fi, cyberpunk, and horror.
Our Discord: https://discord.gg/BFV9sJDDEX
Han Cluster Sci Fi RPG: https://hancluster.com
Resting Glitch Face: https://open.spotify.com/show/1ijwk9DT8ulqO8RVyrawhN
Bite Size Tales: https://sites.libsyn.com/436095/site
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Transcript
Attraction to Cyberpunk: Too Dark and Dystopian?
00:00:02
Speaker
When we get into like cyberpunk, I'm so attracted to it. And yet, it's so dark. dot It's so dystopic that I can't take it.
Introduction to Tabletop Changes Podcast
00:00:16
Speaker
Hello, friends. Welcome to Tabletop Changes, a podcast about running tabletop RPGs, writing stories, and the sometimes meandering paths we take in pursuit of creativity and inspiration.
Complexity of Defining Genres
00:00:33
Speaker
Tangent number 12, the challenge of genre.
00:00:45
Speaker
Okay, so I'm going to put you on the spot. What is that? What what is it that we're talking about?
Han Cluster: Sci-fi or Fantasy?
00:00:51
Speaker
Oh, perfect. um We are talking about not necessarily what makes Genre what it is, what it what it is about particular genres that interest us or pull us in or sometimes even like deter us. Right.
00:01:15
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Yeah. Yeah. So let me, I'll just as a, as a catalyst to get this started, because I'm not exactly sure what we're going to talk about. it's, it's more of a discovery episode. Good luck, everybody.
00:01:30
Speaker
um Why, is ho Cluster a sci-fi setting and not a fantasy setting? And that's a more interesting question than it might seem on the surface, because I actually did think about this a lot when I was developing it.
00:01:51
Speaker
And i i think there's multiple reasons, but I think also that there's a completely legit pathway To not not redo, but reimagine Han Cluster as a fantasy setting.
Genres' Impact on Storytelling
00:02:09
Speaker
Like we talked about this off air a little bit, like the Nex all of its stuff would just end up becoming sort of a magic system.
00:02:20
Speaker
in in in in the fantasy version of whatever Hong cluster is. right and I think that would be super interesting, partly because there's there's just a completely different mentality between fantasy and sci-fi. And so then the question becomes, like why did I go sci-fi?
00:02:41
Speaker
And i I guess there's a lot of reasons. And one of them is that sense of wonder that sense of of grounding in like, okay, here's modern world. we can imagine our modern world. Here's a futurist perspective of our modern world, like where we've solved some of this stupid sociopolitical crap that we've gone through, that we're living through right now.
00:03:10
Speaker
And we've put all that behind us. And now we've got a whole bucket full of new problems that are... different and more interesting to deal with in a fictional way, right? I think that's one of the big reasons. But this is the kind of thing that I want to talk
Introducing Cirque: Evolution and Themes
00:03:27
Speaker
about. And I'm wondering, Dot, what what is there anything that brings to mind that that brings to mind for you personally with your interactions with different genres?
00:03:38
Speaker
Um, well, not that it's been, not that it's finished by any means, but Cirque would be a very similar path for me because for the longest time, i thought that I was going to write Cirque for ETU.
00:03:54
Speaker
I thought that I was going to write it to be a like compendium essentially for ETU and that I was going to fit it in that style. But the more that I continued to work with it, the more I realized this is,
00:04:09
Speaker
dark this is not this is not for you know some high school kids to just have to or excuse me college kids to just have to deal with um so let's give give people the 411 about what Cirque is Oh, boy.
Cirque's NPCs: Flip and Flop
00:04:27
Speaker
um It's your own setting. Yeah, it's my own setting. um And there's there's a lot of weird timey-wimey stuff that happens. um Lots of... ah to this it's it's It's hard for me to give a solid description of Cirque because I haven't finished it yet. yeah But the the easiest way that I can give the inception of Cirque is to just talk about the first two characters that I came up with. My first two NPCs are Flip and Flop. um One of them, they're twin brothers. One of them is a um comedic aerialist. And then the other is just a clown.
00:05:10
Speaker
So they have an act together and, you know, it's it's funny. But Flip is actually the quest giver in in the beginning of Cirque. He's the one that finds the players, pulls them into the circus and lures them gives them the incentive. No, join us, join us. Come see, come see. um And if you've listened to the...
00:05:39
Speaker
Oh, I can't remember what chapter it is, but the first part of Cirque for Bite Size Tales.
Cirque as Historical Horror
00:05:45
Speaker
There are two stories that I've written for Cirque, and it's the intro, or it's at least the start of the intro adventure that I wrote.
00:05:53
Speaker
um And you get introduced to Flip, and it The baseline concept of coming up with these two characters sent me on an absolute tailspin of figuring out what I wanted this adventure, what that this, you know, setting to actually be. And I went from, oh this could easily work with ETU. I've got some character concepts that I couldn't make into archetypes. This is, I got this.
00:06:25
Speaker
And the more that I continued to read up on lore and history and the elements that I wanted to have, like the the creepy elements that I wanted to have in Cirque, the more I realized this is not for ETU.
Gothic Elements in Cirque
00:06:45
Speaker
This needs to go straight horror. this and It needs to just be gothic, dark, creepy horror.
00:06:51
Speaker
Yeah. And... Not to say that ETU isn't on that same path, but I wanted more intensity.
00:07:02
Speaker
i wanted less. And I maybe maybe that's the better way to put it. I feel like with a setting like ETU, you can hang on to some of those tropes, like some of the, you know,
00:07:15
Speaker
pull the fire alarm type moments. Um, whereas if I wanted to take this to the dark horror place that I want it to go, i don't want to, i I want to leave room for the players to still have agency, but I want it to feel more.
00:07:35
Speaker
i want it to feel more like you are going through a horror movie and not that you are just dealing with a creepy weird thing that happened at school for a couple weeks. Okay, so given that, would you say that Cirque is best?
Time Manipulation in Cirque
00:07:50
Speaker
is there a Is there a placement in time for Cirque? Because you want that sense of isolation, you don't want cell phones all over the place? like Is that ah is that an issue here?
00:08:03
Speaker
So Cirque takes place in multiple timelines. So like one of, one of the devices that I have added to one of the NPCs is that they manipulate time based off of souls that they feed on.
00:08:21
Speaker
So all of the NPCs are acts for the circus that have been taken or plucked from different moments of time. And the element that like draws Cirque on that keeps it going is that the big bad, um, continues to move them through time so that she can collect more like powerful individuals to add to her circus. And she steals their souls essentially.
00:08:51
Speaker
Mm. So what kind of things do, I know I'm getting off on the on total tangent. Oh yeah, we've got a whole different route. No, really want to know, but what kind of things do do the the pcs do then inserc you've asked me that question before. and It's one of the hardest questions I can ask, and I know that. Exactly. so you've put me on the spot. This is rude. i know. It is. um What do the PCs do? The PCs have to not only engage with some of the...
00:09:24
Speaker
weird horrors of, you know, the, the, the location that they're at, which Cirque starts in New Orleans. So, um, lots of Haitian voodoo type, um, scary, creepy things. And a lot of, i mean, my, my dad's side of the family, paternal grandfather, is Cajun. So, you know, the it is, has always been an area of interest for me.
00:09:55
Speaker
um which I think drew me to wanting that kind of horror element. Uh, but as far as like what else the PCs do, they have to figure it out. They have to figure out and they will go through and interact with every single one of the NPCs to some degree or another. And eventually they figure out what has happened along this timeline. They figure out who is doing it.
00:10:20
Speaker
And then they have to figure out how to stop them and then help bring all of the NPCs back to their timelines. e That's endgame. that's that That's the hope. That's what will hopefully end up happening.
00:10:35
Speaker
Okay. So how we get there, TBD. and Well, yeah, there's there's a big old ball of TBD. There's a lot of ambiguity here. Sure, sure. So what genre would you say that that is?
00:10:52
Speaker
Historical horror. okay because Because a lot of the elements will... A lot of the events that take place... like The way that I visualize it in my head is that some of these adventures or the pathway of the adventure will have the players going through various points in time. And they may not...
00:11:19
Speaker
physically fully be going back to those times, but they'll be experiencing it through the eyes of someone else. e And so is there a, is there an upper limit to time? Like, will they be going into the future or staying in the past?
00:11:35
Speaker
i think I think the upper limit would be present day. so i think they start, it as far as I've written it to date, they start in present time. That's when they're introduced to the Cirque. That's when players are introduced to Cirque.
00:11:51
Speaker
They get brought in by Flip, and then Flip introduces them to some of the other, or they they, you know, organically get introduced to some of the other NPCs, the other acts, because they...
00:12:06
Speaker
attend one of the circuses um or one of the showings. And I've always really loved the. I'm going to have to remember it now. the
00:12:23
Speaker
It's like the Garden of the Lotus or something like that. I'll have to look it up. I might be wrong, but it's a, it's a, it's rooted in Greek mythology, but essentially they like trap souls and time gets weird. So same principle that once you enter the big top, um, time stops moving correctly for anyone under the tent.
00:12:49
Speaker
Um, and, And that that's that's where some of that manipulation will happen. So by the end of it all, the players, once they leave the circus, because everything will happen while they're there.
00:13:06
Speaker
So once they end up leaving the circus, it's almost like no time has passed at all. But they've gone through this really outrageous experience.
Familiarity in Fantasy vs. Modern RPG Settings
00:13:16
Speaker
And then they just get to live with that. Mm-hmm.
00:13:19
Speaker
Okay, so it starts modern and then it goes backwards. Yeah, yeah. And moves back and forth. in Yeah, I think it'll zip around a little bit. Yep.
00:13:30
Speaker
Okay. Well, that sounds very cool. Like you say, there's a big TBD there, but yes. Oh, yes. Yeah. Okay. So to to bring us back to our... Wow. off our tang That was a big old tangent. was It was. But that that demonstrates a a complication of genre, right? Like historical horror doesn't quite really encapsulate what I'm hearing about what Cirque is.
00:14:00
Speaker
like like like you do you know. um But I'm i'm just, i'm so I'm still stuck on some of these things about what attracts us to particular genres and what repels us from them.
00:14:14
Speaker
And i think we can I think we can do this subtly and without too much like negativity, but I think there is something to be said for that And for example, fantasy, which the what everybody RPG player knows about fantasy starts with D&D.
00:14:36
Speaker
I mean, it just does. Unless you're, less except for Lord of the Rings, but Lord of the Rings never really, it had a couple of games like Middle Earth role playing was back in the day and it was pretty cool, but it,
00:14:50
Speaker
Lord of the Rings is very hard to access, even even today. it's It's hard to create new adventures in Lord of the Rings because it's such a closed system. It it feels so inaccessible to us.
00:15:05
Speaker
D&D was made to be really accessible, right? Like, okay, this is historically based and we're going to add crazy fantasy monsters. And Gygax was all about like...
00:15:21
Speaker
the mechanics of sword wielding and what shields did and all this other stuff. So we made this sort of simulationist kind of thing going on at the very beginning. And so it it it feels familiar to us and it gives us something to latch on to.
00:15:37
Speaker
So fantasy starts and it starts there, but and it's hard to get out of that. And so what is attractive about that to you and what is maybe repellent about it to you, if if anything?
00:15:52
Speaker
I think the familiarity is what attracts me to fantasy. um The other element, and I think this encompasses just role play gaming as a whole, but it's it's a different level of escapism, right? Like, I've...
00:16:13
Speaker
never been in a situation where i've had a sword and shield and i've had to fight my way through x y or z enemy that's never happened to me in my life yet yeah um hopefully it never will you know i'm not opposed to it okay we we'll see what happens um So there there is a level of like just creative escapism that comes from that for me. And i think, you know, one of the things that holds me back is just...
00:16:53
Speaker
a It was my initial exposure to gaming, and that's all I knew for the longest, right? I mean, I know I've talked about it on other shows, but like until I started hanging out with the ah RGF crew,
00:17:13
Speaker
I had little to no other exposure to gaming other than D&D. And then they're actually the ones that introduced me to Savage World. And when we first started playing Savage World, we played Savage World's Fantasy. So even still, new system, same premise. Mm-hmm.
00:17:30
Speaker
So i I wasn't getting out of it. And then we played ETU was the next campaign that we played. And that was really the first time that I had gotten away from fantasy as a genre. And I realized how much more I loved this hobby. Because while had less escapism, there was more...
00:17:59
Speaker
association to that setting etu yeah and it it brought out a different version of myself so like rather than being you know the sword wielding you know goblin fighting badass i was back in college but getting to live it a different way and in in very different conditions. Yeah. And and it it it's just fun.
00:18:30
Speaker
Mm-hmm. So, yeah, i I still love fantasy a lot. Like, Tracy, if you were to come to me tomorrow and be like, hey, after Han Cluster, I'm running fantasy, I'd be like, okay, sign me up. I'm ready.
00:18:44
Speaker
Cool. Great. I'm happy about this. yep Because i like, I don't think there is a genre that I have experienced thus far that i can actually say i don't like playing that pass.
00:19:01
Speaker
But that's maybe that I'm just too, I'm just too easily appeased. Maybe that's what it is. Or I just have really great GMs that I, I am a collector of wonderful GMs. So. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I don't think there's a genre that I would say no to exactly.
00:19:15
Speaker
um There's ones that I resist a little more. um But it really comes down to the the ability of the GM to create a world that's both playable and immersive.
00:19:31
Speaker
Right. So... Use Huss's verisimilitude word. Sure. and You can at least pronounce it correctly. Sure. But um the ah even early, early, early, early on, when I first started, like I first started with Tunnels and Trolls, which is fantasy.
00:19:52
Speaker
And I loved it. I thought it was super cool. It was like you say, escapism. It wasn't it was it was a way for me to be sword-wielding badass or whatever as a little kid at 12 years old, right? Yeah.
00:20:08
Speaker
You don't get that in any other way. There's, there is no other, especially when I was 12 years old and we didn't have the video games that we have now. Like this was, this was it. We had this awesome. Right.
00:20:23
Speaker
But I quickly kind of moved away from fantasy and I'm not sure exactly why. I think there was some intuitiveness there that I felt like,
00:20:36
Speaker
I don't know. I think maybe I was more compelled like you were when you got to ETU to feel that sense of familiarity, of alternate reality.
00:20:48
Speaker
where ah the the minute I got a chance to go into supers, which was this, the idea of let's play a modern person in a modern on the streets of a city and we're, you know, energy blasting from a rooftop to another rooftop or whatever, or we're flying around or whatever.
00:21:09
Speaker
But And what I was, I loved that and it was awesome because comics and all that stuff. But what I really, what really captured my imagination and when I never really got to play until much later when I was much older was the private life or the alternate identity life of those supers.
00:21:30
Speaker
So that's what I loved. i wanted that. like and And I would write these horrifically detailed backgrounds of my characters because I wanted to feel what it was like to be them. right And even then I was more attracted to women than I was to men. So I was i would i would play women Not knowing I was trans yet at that point, you know, it took me many years later to figure that out, but it was all there. It was all obvious.
00:21:59
Speaker
But I think there's that, I think that was really a big part of it where I'm like, I want this alternate reality, this familiarity with the the real world along with what ifs.
00:22:16
Speaker
What if I could play this 18-year-old girl who was trained from birth to be this martial artist and she's a badass and she's quick and she's super skilled. She's not super strong or super big or you know, what the what a lot of the times fantasy sort of –
00:22:35
Speaker
almost requires women to be if you want them to be strong, right? And and I like the idea that she didn't have to be this big, muscly type in order to compete. So that that that idea is what I guess drove me away from fantasy, but also drove me toward more modern alternate reality stuff like supers.
00:23:02
Speaker
And nowadays, ETU you Han Cluster or the any number of other role-playing games out there that that have expanded what role-playing games can be compared to what I had back then.
00:23:19
Speaker
And so i don't know. That's just me rambling. But but my even early on, the point is that I was kind of moving away from fantasy and moving toward something more familiar.
Cyberpunk's Dark Allure and Repulsion
00:23:34
Speaker
And I think when we get into like cyberpunk,
00:23:40
Speaker
I'm so attracted to it. hu And yet when I get into it, when I really look at it, I've got Cyberpunk, the role playing game over here, Cyberpunk Red is right over there. i look at it and I play the Cyberpunk game, which is a great video game, by the way. I don't know if you've played it, but it's really well done by CD Projekt Red.
00:24:03
Speaker
I mean, the launch was catastrophic, but after they fixed the problems, it was amazing. it's an amazing game. But at the same time, it's so dark, Dot. It's so dystopic that I can't take it.
00:24:18
Speaker
And I want something else out of my cyberpunk. And you are a cyberpunk expert, so... You've been playing it for seven or eight years, right? Okay, Tracy, that would require that we actually are playing Shadowrun.
00:24:35
Speaker
Okay, well, Shadowrun's a little different. I understand, but... Anyone who's listened to an episode of RGF knows we're not playing Shadowrun. We're We just take some D6s, roll a couple of them at a time, and then go from there. That's really not quite true, but okay. Uh...
00:24:56
Speaker
At one point, we got into an argument at the... Okay, hold on. Wait a minute. The perfect example I can give, I play a technomancer, and in so it in an instance where a cyber eye was malfunctioning, my response was to cover it with a piece of paper and tape.
00:25:16
Speaker
Okay. Not fix it? Not fix it. Why would I do that? I don't want to touch it. okay Just put some tape over it. Make an eye patch. It's fine. It'll be okay. so Cyberpunk expert?
00:25:30
Speaker
Probably not. No, okay. Probably not. But cyberpunk is super dystopic. Yes, my experience with cyberpunk has been i have had a lot of experience with cyberpunk. Okay.
00:25:47
Speaker
I just wouldn't say that I'm an expert. Okay.
Creating Dark Characters in RPGs
00:25:51
Speaker
i agree. But this is where Dark and Twisty Dot really thrives. Okay. Because, i mean, you've heard about Creepo, and you've heard about Creepo 2.0. Mm-hmm.
00:26:05
Speaker
have... I have... i have three looks when it comes to character creation, portraying my character, et cetera. And it's either super dark, twisted and creepy or someone like Val that is in over her head.
00:26:26
Speaker
I, I love having uh, i don't know what i'm doing i just know that i can do these things kind of characters or a pilot medic which is what i'm playing in hong coaster and i've played a pilot medic so many times and i didn't realize it for the longest and then i looked back through all my character sheets and i was like wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute i do this a lot whoops And that's it.
00:26:53
Speaker
Those are my looks. i i have I have three looks and that's it. It's not uncommon. A lot of yeah players have looks. I have looks for sure. But that being said, i get where you're coming from with Cyberpunk being super just down. It's just a downer because everything's bad all the time. It feels hopeless. You know,
00:27:17
Speaker
you have elements of your body that have failed that you fix with equipment that ends up taking away your essence of your soul. Like it's bad. None of that sounds like a good freaking time but there is still something about it that it's, I don't want to endearing, but there is something about it that like, if you're able to find The hope and the drive surrounded by all of the hopelessness.
00:27:54
Speaker
So fulfilling. So rewarding. It compels me, right? I'm like, I've got over here in my shelves, I've got little minis of...
00:28:06
Speaker
kid so our kids cyberpunk minis. So like, i don't know, teenagers or or or whatever. Right. And i I bought them specifically for the purpose of creating a one shot of these cyber kids trying to do stuff in a cyberpunk world. Cyberpunk youngsters.
00:28:29
Speaker
Right. And i i there's something there. i swear to God, there something there and i want to do it. But the more I immerse myself in actual, you know, TM registered trademark cyberpunk, I realized that is not quite what I'm looking for.
00:28:50
Speaker
Yeah. Like the Night City cyberpunk, because man who Yeah, you don't want to put kids in that situation. Right. and but But this is TM Cyberpunk kids. yeah These minis are from that. And so it's it's it's fine. I get it. But it's it's it's i just playing the game. I couldn't even finish the game because it just started to get two too dark for me.
00:29:16
Speaker
And I like dark to a certain degree. I like the a certain kind of dark. But in that case, I was just like, wow, you know. nice Yeah, I've got enough going on in my life that can put me in that depressive headspace. I don't I don't need my escapism to do that for me. Yeah, so I get that.
00:29:41
Speaker
get that. Especially when the world is kind of dark right now. Anyway, like people tend to gravitate for it up toward uplifting when it's yes, when the world is dark and they do the opposite when the world is doing better.
00:29:53
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, I agree with that. I'm so compelled by the idea that that you are losing part of your humanity to cyberware.
Humanity Loss Theme in Cyberpunk
00:30:06
Speaker
like that That where, who is human and what part of you is human what part of you is robot at that point. Yeah. That compels me in a big way.
00:30:17
Speaker
That was one of the bigger points of contention when I was making Val because she has Cyber Eyes, but she's a technomancer. And um another person at the table basically called me out and they were like, why the hell would you do that? You're going to reduce your essence. And as a technomancer, that's dumb to do.
00:30:41
Speaker
and i I had to explain. It's not for the purpose of like, it's, it's not to, it's not for the purpose of usefulness. It's for the purpose of aesthetic because tangent um Val as a character had multiple personalities And one of her personalities didn't like her eye color.
00:31:09
Speaker
So she went and got cyber eyes because, well, she had you know, ownership of the body for that moment or while her consciousness had come forward and she just went and got cyber eyes installed so that she could have her eyes the way that she wanted them. Which is awesome. That's so awesome.
00:31:26
Speaker
Yeah. So like in in that headspace, I'm taking away agency from my main character and giving it to a non main character that has her own agency. Oh, gosh. It was so messy to try and portray.
00:31:46
Speaker
But I loved every second of it. yeah And like, those are the kinds of things in Cyberpunk that I also really enjoy. The the adaptation and the the just technological ingenuity and development that has happened within that time period. Yeah.
00:32:04
Speaker
I can't put my finger on it because there's there's that confluence of awful things. With this this this just corporations rule everything.
00:32:18
Speaker
People are are just underfoot. Kind of the worst. Yeah. I mean, it's it's either, it's it's just people are driven to do terrible things because of that.
00:32:31
Speaker
Yes. With this amazing technology.
00:32:37
Speaker
that I want to explore, right? And Alita does this. And this is why I want to do an Alita one-shot, where Alita is a lot less corporate overlords and a lot more...
00:32:53
Speaker
Let's concentrate on what we can do with this technology, this this this amazing stuff that we all have. It's still kind of dark and it's still very violent, but Alita has a different mentality than cyberpunk. and And I think I'm more attracted to that.
00:33:14
Speaker
And I've always been, like for years, I've been thinking about doing an Alita one-shot somehow. Yeah, that would be really good. i think Altered Carbon is is my realm of cyberpunk that interests me.
00:33:26
Speaker
Okay.
Altered Carbon's Influence on Cyberpunk
00:33:27
Speaker
Because it's not... It's... There's still...
00:33:37
Speaker
This is going to sound so bad, but like I liked the layering of like the class system that was represented Altered Carbon. I thought that that was a good i thought it was a good representation of how influence and elevation in status doesn't necessarily equate to effortlessness in existence.
00:34:06
Speaker
and And that was that was a ah ah premise of that show that I actually really latched onto. But still in that very, you know, cyberpunk dystopian type environment. I started to watch it, but it was this was before Honklester came out.
00:34:25
Speaker
And I finally, i decided not to because there was too much um overlap there and I didn't want to be unduly influenced by it.
00:34:36
Speaker
if that makes sense with the sleeving and the people being able to change bodies and all this other I can see where you're going with that, but I think that if you would, I think that if you were to watch Altered Carbon now, just knowing what I know about Han Cluster, I think they're two very different concepts. I don't think that I can i understand where you're coming from, where that that may have layered in some influence. And I totally respect that. But I think if you were to watch it now, you would see it in a completely different light and and that it doesn't necessarily overlap.
00:35:12
Speaker
yeah I don't think so anyways. Yeah, no, I i hear you and Really, it was more about, well i'm I'm right in the middle of this and I don't want to be influenced by things that are similar to it.
00:35:25
Speaker
And so I deliberately did not watch certain things. um it's not It's not that I advertise it. It's just that I'm like, okay, ultra carbon was one of those things. I'm waiting on that one.
00:35:38
Speaker
And there was a couple of others too that people are going, you've never seen that? And i'm like, yeah, no, I haven't because it was too close. I had to wait. I didn't want it influencing me.
00:35:50
Speaker
Respect. So, so it was, yeah. so anyway, that, that I'll, I'll get to, and there is elements of Not cyberpunk. that there was There was a deliberate choice not to have cyberware in HonCluster. There was a whole thought process behind that and about whether I want to do it or not, blah, blah, blah, blah. blah It's not that it doesn't exist. It's just it's not prevalent.
00:36:17
Speaker
It's not something everybody does. Yeah. And similar to Altered Carbon, do we want to be able to move people's consciousness between bodies because the next is there? There's a very specific way that I deal with that that you haven't gotten to yet.
00:36:36
Speaker
Spoilers. That is in Han Cluster. And had to really think about it. And I try it real. i try to make it real Yeah. in In a way that that altered carbon just sort of makes it a daily... Commonplace. yeah Yeah. Right, right, right, right. So anyway, so there's that. There's
Aesthetic Choices in Cyberpunk
00:36:58
Speaker
that. But yeah, cyberpunk is strange because it's so dystopian. But what I love about it is this amazing technology. And like you were saying with your character, saying, I want this...
00:37:11
Speaker
particular eye optic thing because it makes me look cool. who That's literally why she got it. Not because it screws me over, but because it makes me look cool. yeah she As a happenstance, it does happen to screw me over. cool It does. Yeah. The the like the main consciousness that is having to deal with all of this crap that we that we go through in that game. um Yeah.
00:37:40
Speaker
More at times than once is like, why did we do this? um I mean, to take it a degree further, just with like.
00:37:53
Speaker
allowing the setting to influence character decisions, character backstory, character development. I mean, you could get like a, a nano tattoo or whatever, and you could have it to where like it changes to different designs or what have you.
00:38:11
Speaker
But I decided with my character, Nope, we're going full balls to the wall. You know, I have tattoos. I understand the permanency of those things, but it doesn't feel like a disfigurement.
00:38:25
Speaker
My like part of that backstory of those characters, those two in particular. So her Val is the main personality. She's the she's the you know, the first personality. um And Angel was the second to appear.
00:38:44
Speaker
Angel is like her just unfiltered desire in, in any sense of the word. And I actually went to the degree of like describing at one point that she has scarification art on her back and they, it is angel's wings. so
00:39:10
Speaker
this personality put her through that experience only for that consciousness to wake up the next day and be like, why do I feel like I'm dying?
00:39:23
Speaker
then realize that that was done to them. Like they again, i was playing such weird agency, 4d chess while portraying these characters. And it was so flipping fun.
00:39:35
Speaker
i would love to do it again, but then I would feel like I'm just, replicating Val and that I could never do that to her. Sure. I hear you. I don't know that I have that kind of sophistication in the, the, the, the the characters that I play probably because I don't take the time um We don't take the time to really explore that
Spotlighting Characters in RPGs
00:40:00
Speaker
deeply. Whereas because and this is the downside of doing shorter campaigns. And I like shorter campaigns because I like to i like to finish things. we We've talked about this before. We've talked about this. We've talked about this. I tend to poo-poo longer campaigns because I want to finish. And oftentimes you don't finish if it's long.
00:40:23
Speaker
See, and I'm going to speak for Huss a little bit in his absence. I know that he absolutely eats that shit up. He loves the deep nitty gritty character development.
00:40:37
Speaker
And that's why a lot of his campaigns will go long because he wants to give us room to do that because he feeds off of it. And then he adds other elements into the game that are relevant. Yeah.
00:40:48
Speaker
Like, so For example, again, a fantasy setting technically, but it was like more historic than fantasy. it was a he was he was running a Viking campaign in Savage Worlds.
00:41:04
Speaker
And. My character, Yersa, was a seer and Creepo 2.0. She was friggin weird in in the most.
00:41:19
Speaker
devious ways. Um, just to put it out there at one point, she, and we, Chris has recordings of this because he recorded our sessions, not for production, but just for continuity.
00:41:32
Speaker
At one point, Chris is describing how like these, and this is going to get graphic for a second. So trigger warning, you know, content warning here, play, maybe fast forward 15 seconds. If you don't want to listen to this.
00:41:47
Speaker
Um, Chris was describing how like some of the villagers skin had basically been flayed off of them. Sorry, body horror, but it had dried out and creepo 2.0 referred to it as pork rinds.
00:42:06
Speaker
That sounds like, like creepo 2.0. Yeah. yeah Yeah. Yeah. So again, like While the setting had nothing to do with that, Creepo took it to a level that it didn't need to go to. Sure. And i I love those moments. I love where I can still be in character like that and feel like I'm portraying my character, but I push the envelope just a touch. Mm-hmm.
00:42:39
Speaker
Okay. See, I need to learn from this because i need to... It's I do introduce elements, obviously, in my games that are not written, um but.
00:42:54
Speaker
I probably don't give enough time.
00:42:58
Speaker
And I don't know. I don't know. i that's that's a shortcoming a little bit, I think. You have a very interesting way of giving time. And it's it's how you spotlight, I think.
00:43:13
Speaker
At least that's what that's been my experience with Han Cluster, because like the night that we were on shock and, you know, Frankie comes in and she's got this real just piloting badassery that's going on. Right.
00:43:35
Speaker
normally i wouldn't have even thought to go there. I, I initially, like if you had told me, Nope, the ship doesn't have any guns. It's a yacht. I would have been like, okay, well I'm going to have to figure out a way to help my people and get them off this barge.
00:43:54
Speaker
But you gave me room To hold that spotlight a little bit longer. And I now feel like I know Frankie differently. She has something else about her that has unlocked. Mm-hmm.
00:44:09
Speaker
So I think, I do think you give us that room, or at least I feel that I have been given that room. Mm-hmm. It's just, I think whether or not you choose to take it and go with it. Mm-hmm.
00:44:26
Speaker
Yeah. yeah and i Part of that is is designer Tracy versus... RPG player fan, Tracy, right?
00:44:37
Speaker
Designer Tracy very much more focused. That said, this isn't a designing run. This is not a play test. This is a fun, this is for purpose of having fun. having so much fun.
00:44:48
Speaker
For both of us, right? And it's not, this is not a play test anymore. And so I can take that time and i i am taking much more time than I used to than I was when I was play testing it.
00:44:59
Speaker
But yeah, I don't know. There's it's it's It's a balancing act because also I don't want to just take too long, you know, so I don't want to drag it out. But anyway, that's neither here nor there. But um but yeah, is there any other, i mean, there's there obviously other genres, but but those are the ones that really hit me.
Horror Elements in RPGs
00:45:22
Speaker
Like the ones, there's horror too and horror has its own thing. But I guess what I will say is Deadlands.
00:45:32
Speaker
but yeah Deadlands, um
00:45:38
Speaker
depending on who's running it, um can be horror horror. Yep. Or it can be campy. Blazing Saddles. Yeah.
00:45:51
Speaker
Right? Yes. I like both, right? What I'm finding, and I won't spoil this too much because we're playtesting Shane's Red Tide, which is the new, brand new hotness that's coming from the maze and all this stuff. It is remarkably good.
00:46:10
Speaker
And it's also remarkably hard. Yeah. I like not only as a hero, but as a player to figure out how to maximize the mechanics and your creative ideas to get past nearly impossible situations.
00:46:31
Speaker
Deadlands leveled up. It is. It's great. Right. But but also we we are a very experienced and very highly proficient Savage Worlds group. And so we can we can do it. And there's also been complaints from the Savage Worlds community about stuff being too easy. So Shane is trying to listen to us and make it harder. Look at what you guys did.
00:46:54
Speaker
but Shane said, okay, I'll break out the big guns. Yeah, it's it's it's clever. It's like i say like I said in one of my Facebook posts, it's like Tomb of Horrors level...
00:47:06
Speaker
clever. And if people who have played Tomb of Horrors, maybe they hate it, maybe they don't, but I found it extraordinarily clever in its just cunning awfulness, right? And so this is this is putting those kinds of of just really impossible situations in front of you, but giving you just enough to be able to do something about it, unlike Tomb of Horrors, which just surprises the hell out of you and just kills you.
00:47:31
Speaker
but Whap. Yeah, but the horror of it
00:47:39
Speaker
oh it's so it's so walking a line. Yeah. um Because there are elements of stuff that that Tracy, as a player, can get very squeamish about.
00:47:55
Speaker
Yeah. But I'm bought in to what's happening here. I'm like, I know what's coming. I've given my consent to what's coming. I know what this is. And yet he, and part of it is compelling. Part of it is like this can't look away thing.
00:48:11
Speaker
Right. But part of it is also. o And so horror is a strange one. And it's really hard to walk that line with people, especially in an RPG. Yeah.
00:48:24
Speaker
And you you also still have to have the comedy with it. If there's not contrast, the horror doesn't land. And and that's a whole other discussion. but but But we have that too. and we We have the levity along with the the awful.
00:48:39
Speaker
And that that's what makes it work. Yeah. But I don't know. That's that's my rambling about horror. I think that was me as well. Like yours is comment. That's some of the levity with the terrifying imagery that's being portrayed to us. Yes. Yeah, it is. It doesn't help that, you know, I had to make creepy and weird.
00:49:01
Speaker
um But yeah, no, I get you. ah Yeah.
Unique Genre Interpretation in RPGs
00:49:06
Speaker
Those are the genres that really speak to me besides superheroes. I love superheroes. Yeah. And it's probably some others, but, but, but those are the big ones that I, I just feel that there's, if I'm going to do them, I'm going to do it my way.
00:49:25
Speaker
And I'm unusual that way. I'm going to, I'm going to make fantasy in the way that i want fantasy to feel. And I have the talent to be able to do it. Whereas a lot of people just say, oh I want to play cyberpunk.
00:49:38
Speaker
I want to play vampire. I want vampire as vampire is written as the way it's been written for the last, you know, 30 years or whatever. i won i want steampunk in this particular way.
00:49:49
Speaker
Or I want D&D fantasy. That's what I like. That's what I played. That's what I expect. That's what I want. Me? No, no. I'm too... I'm too focused on specific feelings and I'm looking for something different.
00:50:06
Speaker
And that's that's a curse and a blessing at the same time. And that's, I think, why I wanted to talk about it. Agreed. Full stop.
00:50:18
Speaker
Thanks for hanging out with us. Whether you're behind the screen, at the table, or lost in your own story, we hope you found a little inspiration. If you enjoy our tangents, be sure to connect with us on Discord and follow us on socials to keep the conversation going.
00:50:32
Speaker
Until next time.
00:50:43
Speaker
Well, I guess I'll just say that like this episode is the most information about Cirque that has like fully been disclosed. So, you know, whatever copyright words I need to put here, just don't touch my stuff, guys. Say it.