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Episode 31 - 1927 World Series - Murderers Row
35 Plays1 year ago
A legendary dynasty begins, as the Yankees sweep the Pirates with relative ease. The boys go over the Hall of Famers involved and get into a debate on what constitutes a dynasty. What are the top 3 dynasties in Baseball history?
Find out on the latest episode of Championship or Bust!
Twitter- https://x.com/TheCOBPodcast
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Transcript
Introduction and Home Run Derby
00:00:04
Speaker
Well, as Smash Mouth once said, hey now, you're an all-star. Wait, Clay Holmes, what are you doing here? You suck. What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Championship or Bust with Max, Zach, and Josh. It is 1927, but in real life, it's all-star night. We had a nice home run derby yesterday, which I'm sure we'll get to talk quite a bit about, from National Anthem all the way to Teasker Hernandez getting the win over Bobby Wood Jr. by centimeters.
1927 Yankees' Dominant Season
00:00:31
Speaker
But for now, let's get to 97 years ago in 1927. Josh, take it away. Alrighty, 1927 World Series, New York Yankees, Pittsburgh Pirates. The Yankees were an absolute powerhouse this year in the American League. Leading the American League in runs, hits, triples, homers, walks, batting average, slugging, and on-base percentage.
00:00:57
Speaker
They won a record at the time, 110 games, and won the league title by 19 games, and they were the favorites to win the World Series. The Pirates, while not the powerhouse Yankees, were still a very good team, leading the National League in runs, hits, batting average, and on-base percentage, and winning their league by a game and a half. So game one.
World Series Game 1 Victory
00:01:18
Speaker
In Pittsburgh, Wade Hoy take the mound for the Yankees against Ray Cramer for the Pirates. The Yankees would strike first in the top of the first inning on an RBI triple from Lou Gehrig. After the right fielder dove and missed a short fly ball that would have landed in front of him, but he missed it and it rolled to the wall, giving Gehrig a triple instead of a single. The Pirates would tie the game up in the bottom of the inning. After a hit by Pitch, a double and a Glen Wright sack fly. In the third, the Yankees would end up loading the bases and score on a walk. A fielder's choice ground wall
00:01:47
Speaker
And then a trick played double steal where the throw into home was thrown wildly and the runner would score. In the bottom of the third, the Pirates would get one of those runs backs, thanks to a pole wane RBI single. The Yankees would restore a three-run lead in the fifth on a Lou Gehrig sack fly, but the Pirates got that run right back in the bottom of the inning on a Clyde Barnhart RBI single. ah With Wade Hoyt developing a blister and getting into trouble in the eighth inning, he was pulled for Will C. Moore, who was able to get out of the inning, allowing just one run that was charged to Hoyt. and then more will retire the Pirates in order, and then I have to end the game with a 5-4 win for the Yankees.
00:02:20
Speaker
The Pirates would open up the scoring in Game 2, and at the bottom of the first, if there were Lloyd, Wayne, or Triple, followed by Clyde Barnhart, Sackfly, on a bowl that was caught just at the outfield wall, just barely not getting out.
World Series Game 2 Victory
00:02:31
Speaker
In the top of the third inning, the Yankees bats, they would wake up. Singles from Combs and Koning would start start the inning off, and then Combs would score on Koning's single, after the bowl was fumbled in the outfield to tie the game. Ruth would hit a Sackfly score Koning, Lou Gehrig would double and score on a Lazary sack fly, giving the Yankees a 3-1 lead. Yankee starter George Pipgress would scatter six hits, over seven shot innings, and the eighth inning the Yankees would strike again for another three runs, a mutual would score, a mutual would single, followed by a Lazary single on a hit and run, and a wild pitcher score Musil. Lazary would get thrown out at third base on a failed bunt, but two walks, including one to the opposing pitcher,
00:03:10
Speaker
would load the bases, and a hit by pitch and a single would push across the next two runs, giving the Yankees a 6-1 lead, which they would hold onto and win the game 6-2. Back in New York for Game 3, the Yankees jumped out to an early lead with two men on. Garrett drove one to the left centerfield gap for a triple where both runs would score, yet he would get thrown out at home trying for the inside the park home run.
World Series Game 3 and Sweep
00:03:31
Speaker
The next few innings were really quiet. The Yankees started her pen up. We retired the first 21 Pirates batters in order. In the bottom of the seventh, the Yankees broke the game wide open, fell into two singles and a poorly played bunt where everyone was safe.
00:03:43
Speaker
A deep double from Koning would give the Yankees some runs, and a Babe Ruth would put the game out of reach with a three-run blast to right. Yankees taking a commanding 8-0 lead, and Pennock would finish the game allowing just one run on three hits, putting the Yankees one win away from a World Series title, and the first sweep by an American League team. Game four, the Pirates struck first, and the first inning thanks to a right RBI single. The Yankees would get that run back in the bottom of the inning. For the first three hitters, Combs, Koning, and Ruth were all single. In the bottom of the fifth, Yankees would take a 3-1 lead, maybe with hitting a second home run of the series, this one to to deep center field. In the seventh inning, following two Yankees errors, the Pirates would tie the game on a Barnhart single and a brickle sack fly. With the game tied and Obama ninth inning, Yankees would load the bases with no outs. and ruth was and ah After Ruth was intentionally walked so that they could face Garreg with a force at all at all bases and no outs, Garreg would strike out. Musa would strike out.
00:04:39
Speaker
was there you would get up and foul ball a million miles foul ball deep down the line ah could've gone for a home run a million miles away and just missed a foul and then pitcher Johnny Miljus would throw a wild pitch where Combs would race home and score the game winning run the series winning run For a sweep of the World Series, the only time a World Series has ever ended on a wild pitch, which is ridiculous after the last World Series, 1926, ended then with Ruth getting thrown out at second base. Sweep, sweep, sweep. Unreal. Yeah, I feel like all these World Series lately have had something unprecedented. Two wild, two absolutely wild endings.
Yankees' Legends and Hall of Fame
00:05:15
Speaker
Unreal stuff. Yeah, with ah with the k two games ending without a ball being put in play. That's crazy. Yeah.
00:05:24
Speaker
Well, time for a very underwhelming version of Is He a Hole of Famer tonight? we have I'm actually going to start with the winning New York Yankees. Nice to finally be able to say that again. But um Miller Huggins, ah fifth pennant, second title, number 10 manager behind Joe Tori and Bobby Cox. Earl Combs, his second pennant, his first title. He had 3-13 in this one, went 5-16 with no extra base hits, two runs batted in and a walk. I, again, have him as the top center fielder in the basement. He was a fun case of the Seattle Hall of Famer where we had a little disagreement.
00:05:57
Speaker
um We have Lou Gehrig, there was no disagreement here. ah Second pennant, first title. He had 3.08 with a 1.207 OPS. He went 4 for 13. Two doubles, two triples, four runs batted in, three walks. Again, have him as the number one first baseman at the top of level five. Tony Lozieri, second pennant, first title. ah He had 267 with only a 646 OPS. He went 4 for 15 with a double. ah Two runs batted in and a walk. Again, I have in level one, number 14 per second baseman between Nelly Fox and Billy Herman.
00:06:30
Speaker
And Herb Penik, who Josh mentioned, killed. um But it's his fourth time playing in the World Series. Technically, it's his fifth pen and he didn't play in one of them, ah if you remember years ago. But it's his third ring, if you count the one that he didn't play in. He went through the stats there, but he's in the basement of pitcher still. But I can kind of see why people voted for him, because he has that clutch gene pretty clear. Babe Ruth, eighth pennant, fifth ring. I think that might be the unofficial most for a Hall of Famer to date. I'm trying to think if anybody had more. But 400 batting average in the series with a 1.271 OPS. Six for 15, two home runs, seven runs batted in and two walks, so he played very well. Wait Hoyt, also in the basement. He struggled. It's his fifth pennant with a third ring.
00:07:22
Speaker
He went 1-0 with a 4.91 ERA. So we had four runs given up in 7.1 innings. Obviously, he got the win. He got a reverse to Graham because the Yankees were murderers row. And a 2-1 strikeout to walk ratio. I forgot to mention with Herb Penick, actually, Josh mentioned how great he pitched. But he only had one strikeout in that game. Go on complete game, one run, three hits, one strikeout, zero walks. So kind of a little interesting ratio there. I
Defining a Baseball Dynasty
00:07:53
Speaker
don't see that nowadays. No. Moving on to the losing Pirates. So we have Kaikai Kyler. Now, we've mentioned him before. He actually didn't play in this one, but I wanted to acknowledge it anyway. um He did have a good 1927 season when he played. He only played in 85 games. We had 88 hits during it. He had 309 with an 829 OPS. Just once again, as a reminder, I have in level one of right field number 25 between Sam Rice, Josh's favorite, and Tony Oliva.
00:08:23
Speaker
Our final returner before we get to our two newbies is PyTrainer, another interesting case when we were doing the Is He a Hall of Famer, but second pennant has one ring from back in 1925. He hit 200 in the series, so he struggled three for 15 with a double, and I have him as the final third baseman in my hall just above George Kell. just below Ron Santo. And our first two Hall of Famers, and it's very interesting because they're actually brothers. So welcome to the podcast Mr. Paul Wehner, who Josh mentioned before. He was voted in the Hall of Fame in the class of 1952.
00:09:00
Speaker
So his balloting was a little weird because there was a nomination vote that he happened to get votes in one year and there was a runoff election when they didn't elect anybody. This technically would have been his fifth ballot if they were doing it like they do now. And he had 83.3% of the vote. Does he belong in? You can decide that. so Like I said, they're going to be pretty easy today, boys, but he had a 333 career batting average. He won three batting titles. He hit 362 in 1934, 373 in 1936, 380 in only his second year in 1927. In that year, he also won MVP. He also has three other top five MVP finishes, so that's four total top five MVP finishes, and then another two where he finished in the top 10.
00:09:43
Speaker
So four top five MVP finishes, six top 10 MVP finishes. Career numbers, 878 OPS, a 134 OPS plus, 3,152 hits, 113 home runs, 1,309 runs batted in, and 74.8 wins above replacement. What do we think? My only question is, how have I like never heard this? There's a question? No. Thank you, Josh. There's a question? I was saying, I've barely heard of this dude before. I never i don't know why. That's why we do this pod though. you um You uncover some of these greats and Josh mentioned it very briefly um When he did his thing, I'm like I gotta expand on him quite a bit So it worked out well because he he did have a good performance in the series. He had 333 515 with a double three runs batted in so pretty good um He's another guy who's kind of
00:10:36
Speaker
Uh, it's funny with an 878 OPS, he really wasn't singles hittery, but he wasn't a big home run hitter either. He led the league in doubles twice, triples twice, runs batted it in once and hits twice to go with the three batting titles. So he definitely was like a multi-dimensional hitter. Just didn't have a lot of power. Gotcha. But I'm assuming we're all yeses here. Well, without a doubt. Okay. I guarantee you his brother is even easier. So here we go. Welcome to the podcast, Mr. Lloyd Wehner took him a little longer to get in in the class of 1967 through a veterans committee. He peaked at 23.4% on the BBWA vote. Now, that's not always a bad sign, right? um Does he belong? You decide. One top five MVP finish, two top ten MVP finishes, including the year he finished top five.
00:11:27
Speaker
He led the league in hits once in 1931 with 214. And he did have four 200 hits. ah to Sorry, I wrote wrote home runs on here, but I meant hit. He obviously didn't hit 200 home runs. 200 hit seasons. ah He had a career 316 batting average, 747 OPS, and 99 OPS plus. 2459 hits in 1993 games. 27 career home runs, 598 career runs batted in, and a 29.8 war. Okay, we ready to vote?
00:12:00
Speaker
No. Yeah. Uh, you said this one was gonna be easy. Yeah, it is. Alright, Mr. It Was Easy, what's your vote? I said no. I thought you don't like the singles. You like Winslow replacement, right, Josh? Yeah. He has 29.8. Yeah, no. Right. Easy. All right. We're on same page here. Did we agree here? I was about to say, I thought I liked the singles hitters, so I don't know what you were doing there. I never i never said that it was going to be easy yeses. I just said they're going to be easy. I mean, the guy was gangbusters was first, you know, five or six years of his career, but when he hit like 26, it just, it was it. That was over. Yup.
00:12:40
Speaker
I mean, it's it is kind of cool that I have two, and it honestly could have been an interesting debate topic if we thought about it sooner, but two brothers on the same team. that you know didn't win this title. And it I believe it's both of their only appearances. It's definitely Paul Wehner's only appearance. um It is also Lloyd Wehner's only appearance. So we're not going to see them again. But having two brothers on the same team that both made the Hall of Fame and both were ah very close to a championship together, you know other than um the Sadeen brothers.
00:13:12
Speaker
how many are there really? like that That is kind of a rare feat. So I could see people grading on a curve to have the feel-good story even back then, especially when stories lasted a little bit longer with less technology, but yeah, no, he's a no. But I could easily see where the narrative could have come in where people could have gotten behind this case. Definitely. The hits the hits stand out, obviously, but other than that, I was sitting there and then you said, I think it was like 500 grippies and I was like, oh, Yeah, I mean, he he was your typical single sitter. He had. I mean, he's got a good average. He had 316 for his career. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Doesn't really jump out of me. I want to see how many times he finished top 10 in batting average. I probably should have had that already, but I'm just thinking about it now. He finished top 10 in batting average six times in the National League, but he only finished above eighth place once. And that's just in the NL. Oh, wow.
00:14:08
Speaker
So there was a lot of, like it was obviously like you know not as power-heavy, power heavy but um people prioritized average more and it shows in the totals. yeah And only finished top 10 and on base in the NL once as well. And he finished ninth. So pretty clear no to me. yep Even for someone who's kind of anti-war. Pretty simple, could I? But I'll kind of segue into this. So the other thing that we we're going to cover today ah was dynasties. So obviously we're starting with Murderer's Row here. um We're finally getting into some of the more popular for ah not forgotten greats, I guess, to kind of synthesize that the forgotten greats um for the pirates. Can we think of a dynasty that could possibly match Murderer's Row?
00:15:08
Speaker
Yeah. I have, I was doing some research and I actually wanted to pose a question to you guys. Do we, do we really think, like when we think of dynasties, obviously murder as well comes to my mind immediately, but are they actually a top three dynasty in the MLB history books? Cause I, I actually don't know. And I want to run through some real quick. So the first one I thought of was immediately uh... twenty ten to twenty fourteen giants they won three world series in five years obviously led by posi and mainly bomb gardener uh... but we'll go through others but immediately they they won three world series as well and the murderers row one three world series in total so that's comparable like what do you guys think just go ahead
00:15:58
Speaker
ah I mean, the Giants are a really interesting case, because, they yeah, they won they won three in in that five-year span, but the years they didn't win, not only did they not win, they didn't even make the playoffs. Right. So, I don't know, they're a really interesting case. I don't know if i don't know if I'd say they compare, because it's not like they were really, really good all that time, and then they just only won in those years. Like, they were bad. They were bad ah bad when they weren't winning. See, i I see where you're coming from, but the idea here, I'm looking at this Fox Sports article right here from Roland K. Kavanagh, and one of the ideas that he mentioned with dynasties include the Atlanta Braves of the 95 to 2000. They won one title and they didn't win. They just won a lot of divisions.
00:16:40
Speaker
um they he has it's not a dynasty get out of here with that rogergers here from twenty seventeen to twenty two oh definite only have one title in the covid year who wrote this this article who wrote this article bad ohll find the name again i just but um um because they should be fired havener But, um, whatever. Terrible, terrible article. What, you call yourself a journalist? Jesus Christ. Let's not get slandered suited here when we make no money. Um, but my question for you guys though that's is what really makes a dynasty? not a dynasty, get out of No, no, let's get slandered suited. here with that crap How do you call it a dynasty if you don't win? I mean, that doesn't make any sense. Well, Mr. Cavner, if you'd like to come on the pod and have your day with us, you're more than welcome. We'd love to hear your thoughts. For me, my question for you guys, though, is what makes a dynasty? Because obviously, to me, it's not this. But I see- Does it make you a full exit dynasty for being the worst human baseball like five years in a row? Is that what we're classifying this as now? We're a first dynasty? We're a first dynasty. Can the current Houston Astros be considered a dynasty? That's one I thought of as well, because they've been to
00:17:43
Speaker
What? They've won three. I believe. And they've been to another two, I think, because they lost the Nationals, right? Yeah. They won in 17 and 22. They lost in 19 and 21, I want to say. Yeah. yeah That's a contender as well. I don't think that's a bad pick for me though Like I do believe the Giants or dynasty I see a lot of parallels between them and the New York Giants of our childhood 20 2007 and 2011 Where they won their titles when they were up for it and then they would struggle um in those other years I'd much rather have that and have two titles then be the Atlanta Braves of the 90s and have one title
00:18:26
Speaker
It's a no-brainer to me. um It's a dynasty if you win. it's not if you knowt If you don't win, it's not a dynasty. To me, it's that it's that simple. well it's got to be It's got to be a short time span, too. It's three three or greater and six or less. That's my other question that I wanted to ask you. That's for me. It's three or greater and six or less. because you count how Where do you put the Red Sox in this? Because you have that the two titles in 2004 and 2007, I believe. And then you have 11 and 14 it is, I think. So they're really split down the middle. That's not a dynasty. That's not a dynasty. That's not a dynasty. That's a tough one though, Mac. And I also, how long is a sustained period of Domics? Because I also thought of the Big Red Machine and they dominated
00:19:15
Speaker
the whole 70s I mean they won two and I think they went to four or five so I you know stuff like that's tough too but what makes the Giants in out to me as you guys are bringing up these star-sided teams when we do that podcast down the line Um, what was the first year they won 2010? Yeah. So 80 pods from now and we're getting close to consider, you know, writing up all that research and stuff. Who am I talking about? For is he a Hall of Famer with those giants teams? Buster Posey might get in. We all have kind of questioned that nobody else is going to come close. That's a good point. It'll be Bruce Moti and no, yeah, it's over.
00:19:56
Speaker
And I think there's something that stands out to me about such a historic dynasty having so few guys at that level. I mean, you had really good years at a mass in Bumgarner. You had a really good season at a Pablo Sandoval and his leadership. um You had a veteran Edgar Renteria. None of these guys are sniffing the Hall of Fame. You had Prime Tim Lincecum for one of them. He's not making the Hall of Fame. No, these are great. So there's something to that to me where if you don't have like that overwhelming legend and just that team effort, and the giants are kind of the New York Giants are kind of like that as well. Other than Michael Strahan for the one, and you know there's a lot of debate on Eli Manning, kind of like there is on Buster Posey for their their Hall of Fame credentials. And then there's really no one else that comes up to that level. And I think that's almost more impressive than having
00:20:52
Speaker
like It feels weird for me to say as a Yankee fan, but those 90s Yankees teams. I mean, it's really impressive that doesn't mate that doesn't automatically signify them as a dynasty. I mean, I agree that the San Francisco Giants are are definitely a dynasty. but But even they had bad years in between. yeah But they won three and five years. yeah They won three in with with basically the same rosters. That's the thing for me. It's it's the roster. you if you're you can't The chances of you winning a championship and and winning another championship eight, nine years later and it being the same team is so incredibly low. So it's not a dynasty if it's not the same players. Yeah, guys are going to filter in and out, but it's just not going to be the same team at ah at a core.
00:21:35
Speaker
so So for Boston, I'm looking at it now. They won in in 07, they won in 13, and then they won the recent one with Alex Cora. That I will count as part of the dynasty. But for 07 and 13, it's too far apart. I've just grouped the four and seven together. It was a very similar group. I mean, Ortiz was probably the only carryover, I'd assume.
00:22:01
Speaker
Probably. Yeah. Lester was gone by then, right? I think so. So you're saying 2013 and the recent one are, like, kind of the 2009 for the Yankees. Yeah. i would I would argue that. I think. I just i can't go there. Really? The star was the star. David Ortiz was there the whole time. And but I mean, the the Yankees feel different. the the The recent one, yeah, Outlier, fine. But there's just for some reason it just feels like and I think it also might be just my bias because The Yankees haven't won in they won one in the years that bosses won four see what i see Okay, see this is um here's here's my point. Here's my point here for the Red Sox, but specifically between all four and 2013, right? So look like like I'm gonna read the rosters off there Starting roster you got it all for it was Veritek Miller Bellhorn Reese
00:22:58
Speaker
Mueller, Ramirez, Damon, Kepler, Ortiz, right? 2013, Saddle and Machia, Napoli, Pedroia, Drew, Middlebrooks, Gomes, Ellsbury, Victorino, Ortiz. There's one name that's carried over in that. I hate the Red Sox because that is, I love almost every name you just said. Yes, but I let's not know they were really they were a really good team had a lot of really good players. That's not dynasty Oh, that's a two totally different teams. I have to agree with Cheryl this fair. All right. I'll we'll take them out I will mention that article that you blasted um only mentions. Oh three to oh eight in this for bosses
00:23:32
Speaker
you only mentioned two championships he's only going for a six year period okay well darless is is a moron but like um what's going on here i'm on this one dude why you qui three I said three I said three and six well then what do you do with something again? I guess I brought up the big red machine like five minutes ago. They're not a dynasty six pennants It's not a dynasty really You cannot just be throwing out the word dynasty willy-nilly, okay? Pete Rose, Johnny Banks. So you're really only saying that? I did not say that they're not a great team and one of the best teams ever assembled. Let's not make them a dynasty. They won two, back to back. Did they win three? No. Then they're not a dynasty. See, I actually agree with Josh on the bigger machine. Really? I do. They're one of the greatest teams ever made. They're not a dynasty. Are late 70s Yankees a dynasty? No, I'm not, definitely not. No, they won two. All right.
00:24:21
Speaker
in the Oakland athletics a dynasty. They blew up to 72 and 73. Yeah. and They want 72, 73 and 74, right? Yeah. They have five straight division titles. I know that. That was what Reggie catfish runner, Raleigh fingers, fight a blue. a that's like That's a good one. So i that would be more of a dynasty to me than either the Big Red Machine or the 70's Yankees. Yeah, okay, so a good point. So then, what do we say about the Astros then? That's three and... The 70's are actually got those five titles. He does. Wow. do Do we get to a decision on the Astros?
00:25:03
Speaker
um So they won in 17 and 22. Oh, we're right. So then that answers your question. I guess but they were good for, they were consistently good for six years and they won two titles in it. I'd say they were an American league dynasty. Yeah, they've been to what? hi right now were Now we're just throwing this word out. I don't think they're a major league dynasty. Yeah. All right. All right. So I'm going, I guess, the 50s. OK, hold on. I want to say that ah maybe back when the two leagues didn't play against each other, I would use the word American League dynasty. I would not use that word. No, I'm just i'm I'm doing it partially tongue in cheek. All right. I'm just saying I would not use that word in in modern day baseball when it's when the two leagues are playing each other.
00:25:48
Speaker
Cuz if we go with your criteria, we're only gonna have three dynasties. It's gonna be the Giants, the 90's Yankees, and the 50's Yankees. I was just about to go there, man. That's fun. Why, why should there be, why, why are we, like, saying that like it's a bad thing that's only three? Well that was my question, is Murderer's Row even a dynasty, but I guess it- Actually, I mean, if we're going earlier, we could talk to Giants. Were they athletics? That we've covered in the past. With Connie Mack, right? With John McGraw. Oh, oh. Sorry, I'm thinking athletics. Did they? Yeah, I mean, you could go there too. Yeah. But the Yankees in the 50s won 51, 52, 53, 56, 58, 61, 62. Yeah, they're the only team to win five World Series in a row. So by Josh's logic, it would be a double dynasty. Well, they' there's no such thing as a double dynasty. So if it's only three titles in six years, well, the Yankees won four titles in six years, then won another three the following six years.
00:26:42
Speaker
So if it can only so technically if those i'm in double yeah I I guess if that's what you want to call it because I was gonna bring up them bombs I would have I would just put that all in one I would have grouped that all into into one dynasty. Yeah, that would make groups. Okay. Yeah Yes, because that was sustained okay okay that you I was going to throw out the Brooklyn Dodgers out there but they only won the one title but they got to four World Series and so in six years. I guess that's a no now that we're looking at it that way.
00:27:16
Speaker
i mean do we call it tamma bay lightning a dynasty because i won twice If I think do we call it penguins of the of the early 90s of dynasties they won two times in a row, honestly, I think it was a Point sixteen seventeen when they want two times in a row dynasty. I wouldn't call that team a dynasty I don't let you very good teams. I would not call them dynasty. I don't disagree I'm just saying that if we're going by that definition, um Then the number or less the original question was like the greatest dynasties as in plural if we're really then We have three answers maybe four answers if we're counting the athletics
00:27:53
Speaker
and that's end of list right so i'm trying to add more like discussion points into it but actually i thought of another one while we were uh in the middle of that conversation uh the 40s Cardinals which we'll be getting to pretty soon they won in 42 they lost in 43 they won in 44 and then they won in 46 so that's three it was a unusual in five years um so we're cool with that one three and five it's my criteria I think honestly looking at this is pretty clear the greatest dynasty is the 50 jankies yeah right that's that's what I thought the murder and ra over the Giants I think that's the top yeah and that doesn't mean that the 50s team was a better team than murderers row just means they won more I think they were I think they were you gotta take a look I'm not saying i'm not I'm not saying I'm not saying they're not I'm not saying I'm not saying they are aren't I'm saying that they won they you know they got to the precipice of where everyone's going for
00:28:48
Speaker
So there are a lot of episodes, but this 1951 is he a Hall of Famer with Yogi Berra, Johnny Mize, Phil Rizzuto, Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle, and Whitey Ford. yeah All covered. Actually, Whitey Ford didn't pitch in this one, but he'll he'll be pitching down the line. um We also have guys like Billy Martin and guys like Bobby Brown, who are going to be really interesting discussion points. This team was loaded. Nelson Howard. Did you say Nelson Howard too? Uh, he didn't play in the fit. I don't think he played in the 51 one, but he, he is part of this. i but Yeah. He's part of that team. Um, no, yeah, that, that lineup is star studded. That's yeah. Doing research for this. That's the best time to see in baseball. And it's funny because growing up, I always thought it was with Gary. Yeah. Also serving in the military in 51. He, he played in the neighbor leaves in 1948. And then his first, yeah um, time at the Yankees was 1955. Okay.
00:29:45
Speaker
But yeah, doing doing all this, I always thought growing up, it was murder as well. Like I just thought they were the best dynasty in baseball, and it made me realize they aren't. It was interesting. Yeah, i that's gonna be one that, um and we can always revisit this and when we get to the 50s. We can kind of go kind of back into this. Whitey Ford pitched in the 1950 series, but not in one or two. Oh, I didn't know that. I forgot they won in 1950 also. Yeah, that was a dynasty. Definitely.
00:30:22
Speaker
i So, you know, i to me, the the dynasty thing comes down to really comes down to hockey. At least growing up, how I define a dynasty, because there was always a lot of talk about it because of the Blackhawks. They won in 2010, they won in 2013, and they won in 2015. So they won three in six years. yeah And they were barely considered a dynasty at the time, despite having the same core for all all three of those championships. So in my mind, if that team is barely considered a dynasty, I can't call a team that won two championships in a short amount of time, a dynasty. Yeah, but hockey is a little different because they have those original storied dynasties of history. Yeah. right And then you throw in the Islanders for. But I would still I would still not.
00:31:08
Speaker
I wouldn't consider a team that wins that wins two championships at Dynasty, even if it's back-to-back. No, I can get behind that. There's a difference between the late 90s Blue Jays who went back-to-back and then something like the Big Red Machine, though. Like, that's just different. But is there? But is there? That's the thing. and Did they win more championships? They made more? Yeah, they might have more Hall of Famers, but does that... does that mean and then you hit But again, like like like like Max Point, the Giants have no Hall of Famers, and they won three in five years. Yeah. They they hit the you know, they got they want they get the precipice of baseball despite having the Hall of Famers Yeah, that's why I think as so yeah with the red with a big red machine probably kicked the absolute crap out of them most likely But they didn't win that's why I'm gonna beat them if these Yankees are the best dynasty ever but I think that 2010s Giants might be the most impressive ever for that reason probably And like even their manager Bruce Bochy is an under 500 career manager
00:32:10
Speaker
who won three titles. And then, yeah, he's got one with Texas. So like, he'll get in the Hall of Fame, but like, even he's not, you know, we're not talking about this elite manager other than those three years, but those three years and the one in Texas, he's a lock. I'd take Boji any day. Oh, yeah, no question. Yeah. I'm saying those like four years removed. You know, who knows what his record looks like. Yeah.
00:32:39
Speaker
Yes, so it's the 50s Yankees. 90s Yankees. It's going to Yankees. 40s Cardinals. And the A's maybe. Yeah. I'll tell autotovi is in there. All right. I guess that would bring us to current events.
Home Run Derby Format Discussion
00:32:59
Speaker
So pretty ironic. I was out most of the Home Run Derby and I got home just in time to see Bone get eliminated. So I go ahead and just give me your initial thoughts. And I know from what I saw, I did like the Nuver format. I'm just hoping that it gets back to the early 2000s one day. but That's all I'll say. Yeah, I get why they got rid of the original 10 outs because it took a while. I i like that format better.
00:33:24
Speaker
um I don't really like the fact that the pitches counted whether or not the players swung. right It was like it was 40 pitches or 3 minutes. And then it randomly went down to 27 pitches for the championship. I don't know if I missed what the reasoning for 27 was. But because they're tired. They're tired and it's getting late. I don't know. We ground down to 25 then. Like 27 gave me a stroke. I didn't know what was going on. But my my one problem that I really had with it was um the 40, not the 40. Let me start that over.
00:34:03
Speaker
The one problem that I really had with it was the fact that the pitches that were horrible counted. Pete Alonzo got hosed on several pitches. I'm not saying he played well, but there were several pitches. And I am not a meth fan. I'm not a huge Alonzo fan. I did pick him to win MVP and ah I'll die on that sword. But um there were like 10 pitches that were like up in his eyeballs. And I'm like, what are we doing? This is what I feel. I feel like the last time that he was in the derby, we were saying the same thing, like, who is this guy pitching to me? Sucks. Yeah. He should have had Adam out of Vino or Edwin D.S. throw into him. roll on I don't get what was going on, but I, and I saw that with a couple of guys. I'm like, well what is this picture doing? What is this picture doing? And it becomes hard because like you could tell like Alonzo was getting pissed. Yeah. I mean, you know, this isn't Superbowl, you know?
00:34:58
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I'm not I'm not as pressed, I guess, as you are about the number of pitches and and guys throwing bad pitches because if it's time that's I mean, it basically took three minutes to throw 40 pitches anyway. I mean, they were all within a couple of seconds of of the three minute mark. So that that doesn't really bother me. i mean you can know If you pick a bad pitcher, you pick the bad pitcher. That's your fault. But now it becomes almost that strategy, too. The other thing, though, is I didn't like... I'm going to try and you should be picking a guy that's going to throw the bowl consistently in the same spot and where you want it. well The real tragedy is Eliza getting... I think it has to be one or the other, either 40 pitches or three minutes.
00:35:35
Speaker
because it became, you know, oh, this guy's getting two more pitches than this guy. And to Oscar Hernandez really kind of got into the final because his pitcher kept a really good pace. And I understand that your thought process of like, you got to pick the right guy. And but that's not what it's supposed to be about. It's supposed to be about like the entertainment value. Oh, yeah. But that's what I get. That's what I give you to three outs to to finish off the round. But It was just the idea of like, I'd see pitch, the pitch clock going down, not the pitch clock, but the pitch limit going down. And then all of a sudden times up, there's still five pitches left over. And I'm like, wait, why is it over? And then realizing that the clock ran out. I think it was just too much, but I liked the idea of trying to make it like the old and the new. I think you need one or the other of either the 40 pitches or the three minutes and then do your bonus round. Either one of those, I'm fine.
00:36:28
Speaker
But I think the both made it a little confusing. Um, the other takeaway that I had on a positive note was I really, really liked yeah ESPN's broadcast for the most part. Um, that camera going from the back where you saw the ball going from the bottom of the bat, I thought it was awesome. The real time exit below and, um, distance was great. The one problem I have with ESPN's broadcast was that the sound would click off every once in a while. Yeah, dude, the sound was so bad, especially the natural. That was also like, oh, yeah, well, that's that's neither here nor there. But yeah, that was that was rough. I'm not going to lie. That was not bad.
00:37:09
Speaker
um That could have been our debate topic tonight. Roseanne Barr or that one. oh I mean, at least Roseanne Barr was... bal what about What about Furry? Oh, it's clearly worth it, Furry. Furry. Furry at least. right I guess it just she tried and failed That one's like you gotta kind of Maybe you should have thrown this up to a friend before you you know put this person in front of national television Yeah, four-time Grammy nominee Yep, I'm confused
00:37:45
Speaker
but um But the sound itself with the but the game, like you notice the pitch is leaving the pitch's hand and then you see the swing after the the the sound. It's like, okay. yeah But the idea the whole camera angle having the double of one side of the batter on one side of the field was excellent. They finally fixed that.
00:38:10
Speaker
Walk me through the ending real fast because I also didn't and get to watch it.
00:38:16
Speaker
but it was down by one, he was down by one homer and he needed to hit it on the next out and he hit one and it hit the hit the wall on a fly. Yeah, he was down by two and then um I think he had two outs but like the way it worked and I also kind of like this but it screwed Jose Ramirez was if you hit one in the bonus round for 425 feet you got a bonus out. So let's say you, you have three outs, you know, everything, every swing, that's not a homeowner is an out. Um, so you hit one, this 425, you get one extra, but you can't have any more than four outs in the set. So he was down to, he smacked one to get the extra out. And then I can't remember if he missed one or if he had the three or if he already had his back into the wall, but then on the last pitch, deepest part of the park went right off the wall.
00:39:13
Speaker
Wow. Yeah. That's pretty. It wasn't high enough. It probably was a if it if it had the height, it was probably like two feet away from being gone. Yeah, that's pretty. off I don't know. I'm just trying to figure out what was a bigger choke job. Pete Alonzo or Alec Bohm against Tasker Hernandez. Yeah, that was rough, too. All right. Yeah, I was I was hard to watch, really. I mean, I had like four pitches left and only I do is hit one home run to tie it and he got any missed them all and then He was like, okay, don't worry. You know, you just, he's had one home run. He's got three outs and then just miss, miss, miss. What I think boom was the fact that he has, he had like an hour and 50 minutes in the time. It's the same thing every year. The guy who goes first gets screwed because he happened to hit the most two in the first round. Yeah, that was crazy too. and So it just so happened that he went from first to last and it was almost like a snake drift. And it wasn't that he was
00:40:10
Speaker
bad in that round, is just he couldn't recover. the He ran out of gas? wanted around he did Yeah, he was dead.
00:40:19
Speaker
But i I had Gunner and that was a disappointment. barry I was surprised Bobby Whitt did so well, I probably shouldn't have been, but I'm so used to him like being like your kind of slap ball type. Yeah, I didn't realize he had that kind of power. He he did very well, and he he hit the 425 quite a few times. Jose Ramirez, and I was clowning the broadcast for it. i Like, oh, you're saying Jose Ramirez isn't strong that he can't get the 425, and he really couldn't get the 425. I was surprised. I don't think he's that kind of header. Yeah. It just wasn't like the way the rules were was not a contest for him, you know?
00:40:59
Speaker
I think he could have done a lot better if it was the traditional method of the 10 hours where it's almost like a quantity of home runs rather than necessarily a quality of home runs. I just think it's funny because they, you know, all the lines came out, you know, earlier in the day and like what the home runs were going to be. And obviously nobody had any idea what was going to happen based with this new format. Cause I think every single line was under, I think everybody was predicted to hit something in like the twenties, like low twenties. And what, two guys got to 21, that was it in the first round? Yeah. Yeah. and That's funny. I honestly found the derby itself to be underwhelming for the most part. That ending was awesome. But... I find the winner to be underwhelming. I loved the double. I can't believe Te Oscar and this was even involved, to be quite honest with you. That's wild. He's gonna have a good season though. Like, not to slander him, but like... I mean, when you have George, Otani, Soto, and I think Freeman all decline, what are you gonna do?
00:41:58
Speaker
I mean, for him, it's not really a home run at her, to be fair. Jayrod doesn't really deserve to be in this year based on the way he's playing, and he didn't make the older team either. No. I mean, who else are you going to really have? Mike Trout's hurt, Ronald da Cooney's hurt. Boo, yeah. No, I mean, wober I don't disagree with that. And it's funny, you think a guy like Riley. Harper. Because last year, your Harper, but Riley's having a terrible year, too. Also, I mean, there's guys that could have could have done it.
00:42:29
Speaker
Any any predictions tonight Paul skeins how many innings two three he's only going one there you three Yeah, they're not gonna let anybody throw them more than one inning. I they used to let the starters go like two or three No, they already said he's going long now Over under 10 would be done shots. Oh over over easy every patch Every but dude he'll sneeze and scratch his ass and I'll be like, oh my god. Love you doing
00:42:56
Speaker
i just like i know I know that 12-year-old boys have like a four-second attention span and it and and it you know increases to about five when they put Libby Dunn on the screen. but like It's enough. We've had Taylor Swift. okay It's over. Don't need another one.
00:43:16
Speaker
i just see say You know what I don't get? ah How did Corbin Burns become the American League starter? I don't know. Is Scooble playing in it? Yes. Did we start Sunday? No. Huh. That's weird. It should have been Scooble. It should have been... i can name you I can name five pitchers other than Burns that should be playing it. Lugo lost it in the last start. I'm trying to think of who else. Like, were you going to put Tanner Hauck in there? Yes. Cole Reagans? Yes.
00:43:49
Speaker
No, I think it's got to be the star. I'm good with Reagans. No, I mean, not Reagans. I'm good with Burns and I'm good with Scoob. Well, either one of them would have been fine by me. The guy someone who's entertaining and Burns. It's weird because he he played in Milwaukee and now he's in Baltimore, so smaller markets. But he has that name factor that those other guys don't because he's been around for a little longer. I get a name factor. Name factor matters. Also, you miss entertainment. Yeah. It would be entertaining if their jerseys didn't look like someone puked all over them.
00:44:25
Speaker
Have you seen the American League All-Star jerseys in particular? They've been bad forever. Oh my god. They've been bad for a long time. Was it you who sent me that that they're looking to move back to the traditional of everyone? Yes, they're looking to let everyone wear their own jerseys. Thank God. Which I can't believe that Manfred would throw away the thousands of dollars they're making on the morons that are buying the All-Star Game jerseys. All the tiny ones buying this jersey. I mean, dude, it's so bad. I don't even know what you're doing.
00:44:57
Speaker
is just It is just awful. Like, who proved it? I just don't get it. know It's like someone used a cricket and was like, okay, perfect. It's like, not only is like the pink color, like just bad, but then they like, they couldn't decide on like a gray or a white. So they just wanted like this turd looking brown color. Yeah. Or it's just, it's just off. Well, they have skins warming up right now. These jerseys don't look much better. I haven't even seen the NL jerseys and I don't know if I want to. It's a black face with blue sleeves. Oh God. Like Marlins blue sleeves. Come on.
00:45:34
Speaker
What are we doing? It looks almost like a vest.
00:45:40
Speaker
I just... What are we doing, man? I have no idea. But on the up and up, we're hopefully getting the right jerseys next year. Yeah. I i right i found i found the full ah American League pitching roster, by the
All-Star Game Pitching Roster Debate
00:45:56
Speaker
way. ah The other starters are Tyler Anderson, Garrett Crochet, Tanner Hawk, Seth Lugo, Cole Reagans, Turi Scubel. And that's it. Yeah, it should have, it's burned to school ball. Yeah, it should have been school ball. I don't have too much of a problem with that decision. Crochet ain't that bad though, he's real good. But I understand that. I just, I don't see people watching. Let's watch Garrett Crochet start. I do, I mean, so school ball is the best pitcher in baseball right now. I just, I don't know how he's not starting. I agree. It should have, not that this means anything, cause it doesn't, yeah but I just don't, I don't understand that this decision.
00:46:31
Speaker
I mean, they're all gonna play and it's like who's gonna be the person that gets people watching and out of those names I don't even know how much burns is gonna get people watching but burns is the guy who's gonna like you're watching of the introduction and it's like Oh burns is and you might keep it on you're not keeping it on for Garrett crochet i staff It's a weird year for pictures this year like it's all like random guys who are having like one really good set of three months and there's not a lot of like sustained guys in this this year at least anything else bo I just i I don't know man
00:47:14
Speaker
I want to throw something out there, actually, because um the leadoff hitter of tonight's All-Star Game, Steven Kwon, is having a very, very good start to the season. The only problem is is that he may not qualify for the batting title if he has one more IELTS than. So I was looking this up, and I learned that to qualify for any of the rate stat titles, I did not realize it was like an on-base champion and a slugging champion and stuff like that. But to qualify for any of them, you have to have 502 plate appearances. Oh, wow. Why 502, you ask? Just kind of like the 27 pitches in the championship at the home on Derby? Apparently, you need to have 3.1 plate appearances per game on average. Why the .1? I don't know, but here's the problem. 301 plate appearances. um Sorry, 3.1 plate appearances over 162 games makes 502.2.
00:48:14
Speaker
So we rounded down instead of up. I'm really confused at how basic I am. How many how many play to Paris? This is he? Yeah, I mean, he's right now. So he needs to basically play another 60, 50 to 60 games. And there's about 75 games left, I think. So how many games has he missed from injury already? He missed a bunch. So they've played 95 games. He's played 69. He's missed 26 games. I mean that's not a lot terrible and in the long run if he can stay healthy for the rest of the year he deserves to win it but yeah I mean if you're gonna miss if you're gonna miss 40 plus games yeah that's kind of a
00:48:56
Speaker
It's kind of a problem. It's valid, but I'm saying 25% of the season there. But why are we going 3.1 plate appearances a game? Like, can we just round down to three normal people? What the hell is wrong with baseball? MLB is goofy. I mean, have you seen some of the stats we use? Yeah. Oh, yeah, the old Warped Gobble Loop Bapit. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. What we're going to say is we got to introduce a Matt Gass war and discuss this. So I don't know, whatever thing that you just said that needs to be put on a t-shirt. we've got a goop yeah that yeah that almost oh we have to add a plus in there because that makes us out more important Oh plus oh Jesus god from but I think Matt guess were Stephen Quan is getting up to like a four or five right now we get it I got lucky enough to see him play JK you didn't know I don't think he played
00:49:52
Speaker
You probably saw him with me. I've seen him a couple times. I don't know. All I know is that when I saw the ah the Indians, sorry, the Guardians, the Yankees beat the crap out of them. Right. It's pretty much par for the course for the Yankees and the Guardians. Yeah, let's hope. Yeah. I hope so. Yeah, this year it all looks a bit...
00:50:15
Speaker
I say yankees yankees uh yeah oof ee scary ah yeah well don't worry we have all-star closer clay homes ugh disgusting absolutely disgusting how we have all-star closer clay homes and then five random knuckleheads in the bullpen how the hell did that happen that all-star closer clay homes became two-time all-star closer clay homes I mean, he's got like 20-something saves. He's on pace to get like 40 saves. Yeah, but saves is like a circumstantial stat. Yeah, I do. This is this is the ah the... whatever his name is. ah Very familiar on the Mets, where he had that season where he had like 60 saves. But he still blew like 20 of them. That's why he shouldn't be... like Yeah, but they still talk about the 60-save season like it was some huge feat. Sucks! And I thought of him sucking. He sucked even more in the playoffs. I mean, he was terrible.
00:51:09
Speaker
How many saves did he have that year? That a lot, dude. He had 51. 51, sorry. Yeah, and and and and did you see him in the playoffs that year? Oh my god, it was ugly. Yeah, he was not good. So he finished 67 games and had 51 saves, so he definitely blew... Oh yeah, he blew five saves that year. He only blew five saves. What are you talking about, boy? Yeah, well, it lot a lot of his a lot a lot of his saves were games that he would come in when the Mets were up by three runs and they'd win the game by one. That happened quite a lot. I just learned that if you highlight a certain thing on baseball reference, it comes up with the save total. This is awesome. I did not know this was a thing. This is a game changer. Oh my God. Clay Holmes has more blown saves this year than Familia did that year.
00:51:54
Speaker
All right. Oh, good. Good. And we're yeah six ball save in opportunities. i amazing He has a 77.8 save percentage and he's a fricking all-star. And that wraps up the 1927 installment of Championship or a Bus. We hope we all you enjoyed or didn't get too triggered when we didn't call your team a dynasty. And we'll see you next time. yes