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Problem #23: Building Your Audience
143 Plays15 days ago
This week, Tracy and Kristian talk about the strategies and challenges of building your audience, not only for your game, but for you as its creator. We cover some of our own anecdotal experience navigating these tricky waters, emphasizing not the marketing and hype of it, but the benefit of nurturing genuine relationships when you're able. We talk about both being authentic to yourself and ways to protect yourself. And we even talk about cultivating that small group of engaged people around you who can help widen your net to a much larger audience with their enthusiasm.
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Transcript
Introduction to Audience Building
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to the Designing Problems RPG Podcast, where we explore RPG development and all the intentional and unintentional problems we create along the way. I'm Christian Serrano. And I'm Tracy Sizemore. We're your hosts for this parasocial tightrope.
00:00:18
Speaker
And this week, we're going to talk about problem number 23, building your audience.
Authenticity vs. Marketing
00:00:43
Speaker
So this is kind of like how to, as, as game designers, right. Or as people also, yes how do we, how do we build the audience?
00:00:54
Speaker
Not just for ourselves, but well, not just for the product, but also for ourselves. Yes. I mean, I think, i think the main sort of thrust of this one is not a marketing thrust.
00:01:09
Speaker
Right. This is not trying to market and trying to get your name out there through clicks or all that other stuff. This is about building who you are what you're creating, and getting people excited about those things. Yeah.
00:01:26
Speaker
um because, you know, clicks and marketing is a whole nother thing that is valid and certainly worth talking about. But ah Christian and i at least, have worked to build an audience in an authentic
Accidental Audience Building
00:01:44
Speaker
way.
00:01:44
Speaker
And I think that that probably is the best way. It's the long-term way. You know what I mean? If you can do it. I would say i had ah i had a plan about how I was going to do this.
00:01:59
Speaker
And so far I have executed on that plan. I've hinted hinted at it in other streams and podcasts, but we can talk about it more in depth here. I don't know if, Christian, did you have a plan?
00:02:10
Speaker
No, not at all. Well, cause like I, like I mentioned last episode, you know, as I sort of accidentally kind of fell into it. Right. Sure. So it started as being a member of that community and interacting in that space and getting to know people and,
00:02:27
Speaker
you know interacting with you know really popular podcasts like The Game's the Thing, you know and you know so on and so forth, and you know getting to know people like Ron and you and others and you know Jody and Clint. And um and it it was really unfocused. It was really just, I just want to like talk about this stuff. I just want to be around these people and, and and I have ideas and I want to like share my excitement. And that resulted in, you know, i guess creating an identity.
Real Names and Identity Online
00:03:05
Speaker
Um, but it's not even like a a separate identity from really who I am. It's my identity. It's a genuine identity, hit you know, and and a lot of it, lot of it too is Wanting to give back to that community, wanting to offer something, be you know, have a value, you know?
00:03:24
Speaker
Um, and that's why I did things like, you know, Savage Eberron and podcasting and, you know, so on and so forth. Um, and so the the other thing I made a point to do was actually used my real name. Mm-hmm.
00:03:40
Speaker
And I got that from a friend of mine long time ago ah from an old blog I used to co-write with him, where he started using his real name as opposed to, you know, how we typically would use pseudonyms or whatever um online.
00:03:54
Speaker
Because he wanted to one, be recognized for work he's done, yeah and two, be accountable for things he does. Mm-hmm. And I thought that was great, you know? Um, and, and I, that's, that's where I started and that's hence the genuine, you know, being of myself. And, and I think a lot of it too is also, you know, you are making connections. You're building relationships with people, not this esoteric blob of audience.
Creating Real Connections
00:04:24
Speaker
These are individuals that you get to meet at conventions. You run games for them, you you know do interviews with them or you know any number of things, maybe even might write for them one day, you know or have them write for you either way.
00:04:40
Speaker
And so I was also careful of of that, you know, and i'm I've made mistakes. I've had, you know, interactions that i I kind of regret, like, oh, I shouldn't have posted that. That was really negative or whatever. Yeah. You know, but but again, because I chose to use my real name and this is who I am, i i held myself accountable.
00:04:57
Speaker
Right. um And I think that's important. I think it's important too, because it's a really small industry. Yeah. It's really tiny. So not just in terms of, you know, audience knowing you, but even other designers, yeah you know, um you know, so, so I guess, you know, I wanted to make sure that I was respectful in how I interacted.
00:05:23
Speaker
yeah So, yeah. So to answer a question, no, there was no, there's no
Organic Creative Processes
00:05:27
Speaker
plan. It was just, I just wanted to be in that community. Yeah. And I don't think, i don't know that I had a plan. it was It was more that the plan formed as I went.
00:05:38
Speaker
And then i it really did develop into a plan, especially as I was deciding I'm going to try to write for RPGs, or I want to write for RPGs. Right.
00:05:48
Speaker
I want to create HunCluster. I want to get it out there. it The plan formed. as I became more interested in doing the things. Yeah.
00:05:59
Speaker
Right.
Identity and Online Personas
00:06:00
Speaker
And like you, I've never been... Interested in i mean, i've I experimented with it, you know, back in the way back in the BBS days when we you had online bulletin board systems that you dialed in, they were local.
00:06:15
Speaker
Wow. You know, before the internet really was a thing. And i experimented with having different names. Yeah. You know, and other people...
00:06:25
Speaker
went by different names. I even knew a trans person way back then in, you know, the, the, when it it' was the eighties who was using BBSs as a way to express themselves online. Right. And they used a different name.
00:06:40
Speaker
And, um at that time I wasn't, I didn't know that I was trans. So I was just me and, but I had my different name that i used and it felt weird to me.
00:06:52
Speaker
It always felt a little weird. Like I was like, I don't like I could be anybody. Right. yeah And I know people love that. People love that feeling of I could be a jerk in this name or I could be a I could be a the a different person.
00:07:08
Speaker
Yeah. As this person. Yeah. And ah as a role-playing thing, of course, you know, I do that every day, but at the same time, it's like online with other people when, when they're not playing the game, don't really want to play the Did you, did you feel like with that other name, you were a different person or did you still feel like
Authenticity in Creative Work
00:07:28
Speaker
you were you? I i felt like I was a little bit of a different person.
00:07:32
Speaker
Yeah. I felt like I wasn't, I don't think I acted any different really. um But I experimented with it a little bit. Yeah. And then I realized, man, this doesn't, I don't like this.
00:07:44
Speaker
Yeah. That's interesting. Cause I did have a, a, an online name that I used on every forum bulletin board, whatever. Yeah, I did too. And, and, but I still feel like I was still me, but maybe because it was behind the pseudonym, like that accountability thing.
00:08:03
Speaker
Yeah. Maybe it was maybe a little bit less so. And so I, and I remember that when I, when I made that conscious decision, it wasn't easy. i was like, this is scary, you know, putting this out there. Cause not only do the people in the community know my name, but then somebody Googles me.
00:08:19
Speaker
They can see all this gaming-related shit. Sorry. Meaning when you started to use your real name? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because now my name was out there and tied to all these things. You know, things I say, things I do, yeah you know, and whatnot.
00:08:33
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's like when I'm applying for a job and they Google me, they probably find, like, all sorts of weird stuff. Right. And ah yeah. And that's, that's, that's, I don't know. Like I get that. I totally get it.
00:08:48
Speaker
Right. But at the same time, um i can't not, I'd rather, I'd rather have that accountability. And so early on, I was like, no, I'm i'm Tracy. I'm going to be, once I, especially when, of course, once I transitioned, or not transitioned, but once I came out, um I was Tracy.
00:09:08
Speaker
And that sort of coincided with, um it just all happened right before I started writing. for games so i never wrote as my old name i always have always always under trace written as tracy that's there was a brief period where i had to tell people oh change that play testing make sure that play testing credit says tracy right yeah um but that's that's my that's that's the name that's the name that's out there and uh i just that's that's how i wanted to interact and so as time went on
00:09:46
Speaker
When you're faced with these options, you know, I have a company, Eatsoul Games is my company, but then I have to make a decision. And a lot of people have to make this decision. Do I want to represent myself as Eatsoul Games as on Facebook and and in Discord? Do I want to name myself Eatsoul Games?
00:10:08
Speaker
Or do I want to just be Tracy?
Personal Branding Choices
00:10:10
Speaker
Yeah. And i always opted for Tracy. Right. Even i have a Facebook page for Eatsol Games. People have seen it. I know.
00:10:19
Speaker
But I rarely post on there. I rarely mess with it. And partly it's because you know me as Tracy. So for you, and not in an egotistical way, but but in ah just in terms of identity. Yeah.
00:10:32
Speaker
For you, being Tracy is more important than being Eat Soul Games. It is. And I think for other people, me being Tracy is more important than being Eat Soul Games, too.
00:10:43
Speaker
Because they'll recognize me as Tracy. Yeah, right. Right, exactly. like in And so it's funny you mentioned the the recognition thing. I actually had one time where my professional... work life crossed over and it was on a, it was on a, ah Slack server for, I forgot what project was like some, it was a library. i worked at Emory libraries.
00:11:06
Speaker
It was a, it was a project related to that. And somebody who is going to be at this conference or whatever, recognized my name and said, oh, are you Christian Serrano who did Savage Eberron? Oh, the Manifest Zone podcast is what they recognized me as. And I was like, ah yeah, I am And we just kind of like geeked out a little bit about that. And so it was kind of a
Recognition in Multiple Circles
00:11:29
Speaker
really cool way. This is going back to what I was saying about attaching my real name, being accountable for the things I do and say and what I contribute and you know how I contribute.
00:11:41
Speaker
And it was kind of cool, like somebody appreciating that, you know, and and but then also connecting with me professionally at the same time. It it was a really, really cool experience. and And I think that was one of those moments where I was like, yeah, I definitely should be careful about how I interact in these communities. you know Yeah, yeah.
00:12:04
Speaker
And that gets into, so you start getting into the parasocial
Balancing Public and Private Personas
00:12:07
Speaker
thing. yeah where And what I mean by that is, it's it's and parasocial technically means one-sided relationship, right? But that's not really exactly what I'm talking about. It's it's that there is, there is the the people know me because of what I've done first.
00:12:24
Speaker
They get to know me as the person after. And the question about that for that everybody, everybody who is creative and is doing work that people are engaging with has to answer is how, how much of a barrier you going put?
00:12:43
Speaker
Right. Like, you know, and and with whom, right? It's not it's not an off or on thing. It's a with whom thing. Right. so And that's that's a tricky thing to negotiate. Luckily, I think I have an intuitive sense for it.
00:13:02
Speaker
But um it's important to me to be my authentic self, to be Tracy, to um to be the person that they know who is designing this game, not the person that they don't know um who they have an image of.
00:13:20
Speaker
Yeah, right. Right. It's
00:13:25
Speaker
it's ah it's the name in the book or the name on the website versus the person. Yes. Yeah. And I wanted those two things to be the same. Yeah. um Because partly I'm not just selling cluster.
00:13:43
Speaker
um You know, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to, it's not that I'm, it's not that I'm actively trying to get you to like me or to follow me. It's, it's that I want to be my authentic self so that when you're enthusiastic about my game, there is crossover yeah to being enthusiastic about me and vice versa.
Authenticity in Engagement
00:14:03
Speaker
Yeah. So I don't know. That's tricky. It is. Because, like because you know, let I mean, being honest, like there's things that I say behind closed doors with friends that I'm not going to post publicly because, of course you know, those are private conversations. and those are, you know, those are expressions of things that I feel that I don't think are necessary that that are necessary for, you know, the community.
00:14:27
Speaker
or You know what i mean? that It's just not, it's not what that space is about. And so I don't want to bring that stuff there. um I want to engage with what we're all here to engage about.
00:14:38
Speaker
Yeah. You know, and that's, and that's why, you know, that's why I try to be careful with, and again, going back to accountability, you know, yes who I am and how I interact. Yeah. um It's tricky.
00:14:49
Speaker
It's tricky. But it's going back to the whole building the audience thing. And yeah because I was like, okay, And what I mean by the plan developed is there's there's multiple ways to enter into creative work in a particular industry or community, right?
00:15:10
Speaker
One is you just work by yourself for a long time and don't engage with anybody until you try to put out something. Yeah. That's a hell of a way to do it, by the way. That's one way
00:15:24
Speaker
one way. That was not my way. My way was ah test the waters in terms of, okay, so first I'm going to start running games yeah for people.
00:15:39
Speaker
Right. I'm going to put myself out there at a convention because I'm passionate about it. I love it. I'm going to try to run a game. Yeah. Scary is as hell, but um I just wanted to do it.
00:15:52
Speaker
not it wasn't ah It wasn't a deliberate like plan, like something that I'm going to be doing because I'm uncomfortable because I have to do it. It was something I wanted to do. was excited to do but was also anxious about doing. yeah I authentically wanted to do it and I did it.
00:16:09
Speaker
And I did it more and more and more and built up a reputation. Yeah. Isn't that weird? Like, not weird, but like, it's fascinating to see. Like there there's there are people who have reputations at conventions for the games they run.
00:16:22
Speaker
Yes. Because of who they are and how they run them, you know, and and and people like they open up a slot and it's filled instantly. And it's it's fascinating.
00:16:33
Speaker
And that's cool. It is. you know as Speaking as somebody who's who's who has that a lot, of course, there's always the time when you know somebody doesn't show up or or yeah you get an empty game or whatever, and that's fine.
Reputation Building through Conventions
00:16:45
Speaker
But that that rarely happens to me anymore. yeah And partly it's because I run a convention so often. i've I've built up friends that come and play my games and all this stuff. And that's part of the building the audience thing.
00:17:00
Speaker
It is. It's is it's it's ah it's just one part, but that that was certainly the beginning for me. yeah And then i started writing adventures And i ran for Shane, which also was part of it.
00:17:15
Speaker
Like, I don't care what you say, but when you play a game with somebody, you're going to learn a whole lot about them. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? Absolutely. Yeah. and Shane learned a lot about me. I learned a lot about Shane. And ah i started reading writing stuff.
00:17:31
Speaker
And I was genuinely wanting to write stuff. This was not some deliberate, like, cold calculated plan to... to build my audience for Honkluster at this point. I was just trying to build up me.
00:17:45
Speaker
Like I wanted to do this. I wanted to do it well. I wanted people to like what I did. Yeah. And that ended up turning into more, you know, getting Holler, getting Pine Box Middle School.
00:17:57
Speaker
And by that point, I really did have a plan. Yeah. I was like, I'm going at this because i have I have built up the reputation and I have the talent to be able to write for Pinnacle.
00:18:10
Speaker
Yeah. I'm going to take advantage of that and learn how Pinnacle does things. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. that's And that that's that's kind of the cool thing about, you know, Exactly. Exactly. Right. Like it it gives ah networking opportunities.
00:18:27
Speaker
Yes. And, you know, opportunities to have people who can share, you know, you can ask them for ideas and advice and suggestions, you know, and, and, you know, I'm really lucky that I, you know, became friends with Keith Baker through through Manifest Zone.
00:18:45
Speaker
Because like there's times where, you know, I'll see him at Dragon Con or, you know, Gamehole Con a couple of times and and it's like, you know, I'll have ideas or or
Genuine Relationships in the Industry
00:18:54
Speaker
something. I'm like, um you know, I'm really struggling with this, blah, blah, blah. And it's nice to be able to have people that you respect, but who also respect you e to be able to have those kinds of of engagements. Yeah.
00:19:07
Speaker
You know, um and I think being a genuine self, you know, it it facilitates that. Yeah. um yeah it's so you yours has been pretty focused through the the design game design aspect um a little bit of a detour with or not detour i guess um with savage interludes you know yeah having having a different engagement there and that was also part of it too
00:19:39
Speaker
It's like, look, I want i say, i think it was our year anniversary where Matreye came on and asked us questions. or or It was one of those where I was like, here's why I did this.
00:19:50
Speaker
Here's why I created this podcast. I'm too shy to speak out on my own. I'm way too shy to speak out in a group of people, right? yeah But if you put a microphone in front of me, suddenly, and I have put a foot of spotlight on me,
00:20:07
Speaker
Then I'm not too shy. Then I will say what I think. And I had so much to say. Yeah. Right? I had so much. It's not that i I thought I was doing it better. It's just that, oh, this is how I do it and I have a lot of fun doing it this way. So maybe you will too. Right.
00:20:25
Speaker
And so that was all part of not only building my name and and trying to get people to know who I was. it wasn't that wasn't That's only a small part of it, but it was still a part. I'm not going to lie to you. and but But mostly it was just like, look, I can't find any other way to express myself.
Overcoming Shyness via Podcasting
00:20:46
Speaker
this is the This is the way I do it. You know? Yeah. And so, yeah. And it's the same with this. It's the same with this one. It's like, i wanted this i wanted to put a spotlight on me because otherwise i won't talk.
00:20:59
Speaker
Yeah. I will just sit there and be quiet and you should see me at conventions in the loud bar. I'm terrible. Because unless somebody asks me, unless somebody directly engages me and start asking me questions, I just won't say anything. Wow.
00:21:14
Speaker
Because i just, nobody wants to listen to me. yeah Oh, Tracy. You know, stop nobody cares. So I need this. Yeah. So the reason why I was asking that is because feel like i was I've been all over the place because it's not just, you know, the Savage Eberron stuff and then some podcasting. And then, you know, you know before Manifest Zone, I was in the Eberron community just sharing ideas and geeking out about Eberron. Then I did Manifest Zone. Yeah.
00:21:44
Speaker
You know, and, and, you reached out to Keith and thankfully he was interested and willing and, um, you know, and then but then it's also like little things that I just wanted to put out there. Like I made a Savage Rolls dice roller, you web-based one. Cause I wanted to have that out there for, cause people kept asking for one. Right.
00:22:03
Speaker
And then through a material plane, i licensed backstory cards so I could make a Foundry VTT module because I was getting into using Foundry, it was during the pandemic. Right. And I'm like, I want to use backstory cards and I want to do it online. and You know, let me make a module.
00:22:18
Speaker
And then you know, and then I started developing modules for other, you know, purposes for Savage Worlds or otherwise. And I'm hanging out on the Foundry VTT server and Discord, you know, and and interacting with people there. And um and it's just...
00:22:35
Speaker
I feel like it's a little unfocused and feel like so many people know me in so many different contexts. And then there's a few people who know me and in those multiple contexts that it, that gets weird. yeah And, um, you know, so it's, it's, I wish I had a little bit more focus in that regard. Um, but at the same time, I feel like so many opportunities have come because of it too.
00:23:00
Speaker
So I don't, I don't know. I don't know if I, and don't know if I should focus more and and do fewer things with more focus or still keep, you know, my, my hands in different.
00:23:13
Speaker
Well, i that's, that's the balance, right? Is the balance between what you want to do and what you need to do. Yeah. And when it comes to, to the point where Explorer becomes something and you say, or whatever it is that you do becomes something you say, okay, i want to I want to make this happen.
00:23:31
Speaker
Then you shift into that, what you have to do. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? No, I, I, I'm serious. Like, i feel like foundry stuff has been taken away a lot of time from me. And, and cause now there's, you know, the V13 that's coming out and I'm trying to update all the modules that I maintain. And some of them are commercial, some of them are free. And and I'm getting to the point where I'm like, for some of these free ones, this might be the last version up update. And I do.
00:23:58
Speaker
Because I really need to focus on other things. You know, I feel like I just finished updating my modules for V12 and I'm back on the train for V13 and, um, and i'm kind of burning out with
Balancing Creative Projects
00:24:11
Speaker
that. And I, and I, like I said, I want to focus elsewhere. So it's like,
00:24:15
Speaker
you know yeah I want to get back into the design side of things and game design. um Sorry, I went off on a tangent there. No, yeah. I'm building an audience, right? Building an audience. So, my like I say, my strategy was was with my name.
00:24:33
Speaker
Yeah. And to... ah it's It's not... I'm not trying to fool anybody. I'm not trying to snow anybody. I'm just trying to like do what I like to do. Yeah. And and i think that's and that's that's a thing, too. It's like i I deliberately, from the very beginning, ah way before...
00:24:56
Speaker
I went into the game design space, I had really decided if I'm going to make my name off of something, yeah it's going to be what I created. it Yes. It's going to be mine.
00:25:10
Speaker
Right. I can't do it any other way. and And so if if if I'm going to do creative things, it's going to be mine. Yeah. ah Or, or, you know, somebody i I collaborate with or whatever, but, but it's not going to be through a license or through, through somebody else's stuff. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, you know, take from somebody else and,
00:25:34
Speaker
you You want it to be your sort of genesis i do kind of a thing. Yeah. And I wanted it to, you know, something that I could copyright, something that I can say is mine. That's an important aspect of it.
00:25:46
Speaker
If I fail, I fail. And I've talked about this before. Right. If, if, if, but at least it's mine. Right. And so I made that decision and not everybody's going to make that decision, but I did.
00:25:58
Speaker
and made it early on and I stick to it. At some point it'll be Tracy Sizemore's Han cluster. Well, yeah. I mean, if it if it ever became that, that's, that's what I'm, it's not that I'm expecting it.
00:26:11
Speaker
It's more that I'm making sure if it happens, I've planned for it. Right, right. You're making sure that that opportunity is That don't lose out on that opportunity. That I don't dilute it by giving it away or that I don't lose it by screwing up how I handle the the trademark registration or whatever. I'm making sure that the ducks are in a row.
00:26:39
Speaker
So if that happens, i've I've made it so that it's possible. Yeah. So that can be mine. not not Not just mine as ah as a point of pride, but mine as a point of legality.
00:26:55
Speaker
Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Handling Online Negativity
00:26:58
Speaker
But and now that's just me. That's me. So we talked about the tightrope and this being a balancing act.
00:27:06
Speaker
And a part of that I feel is, you know, we, we can be, we can strive. we don't, we're not perfect, but we can strive to be our best selves when we engage online or in person with the community. But there are moments where, for example, the other people might not be doing so.
00:27:23
Speaker
and and what, what can be really hard in terms of that balancing act is how do we respond or do we respond even? Yeah. Cause it can be easy to get upset, defend, get angry, you know, whatever, because, you know, you feel like, well, this person's saying something that's hurting my brand as a person, yeah you know, and, um, I, what I've learned over time, and I'm not perfect. Like I said, I've made, still make mistakes, but I've learned, honestly, it's just not important enough to engage.
00:27:58
Speaker
Mm-hmm. It's just not, I have enough connections with other people who know me, who've interacted with me that I've gotten to the point where, you know, I'm like, you know what? I don't need to interact with this person. yeah And I'm just going to choose to not anymore.
00:28:14
Speaker
I don't have to, there's no obligation on my behalf to do so. Um, but I have seen people who get really defensive and they get you know angry and they blow up and they have these explosions on forums or on social media You know, and and and even when I've had, i had a whole thing on Twitter where someone was posting this whole long thing about Savage Eberron and how it was illegal and blah, blah, blah, and trying to make it a a learning lesson, using me as an example. And it was a whole thing. And i I engaged with him because it was hurting my brand. Yeah. ah ah You know, because this was the immaterial plane, Christian Serrano. Yeah.
00:28:53
Speaker
and but I tried to make sure that I was not just, hey, you're an a-hole. And yeah it was like, this is what you don't know. This is what I've done. This is how this is covered.
00:29:05
Speaker
you know, please be sure next time, if you have questions about something like this, reach out instead of making assumptions, you know, and I did say something to the effect of like, some of the things you said could be considered liable or could potentially be considered liable because you're making false accusations and, you know,
00:29:22
Speaker
giving misinformation about things you don't know anything about. Yeah. um and that was i i weighed that like for a while before i responded i mean i was really angry and i wanted to go off on him but i'm like i need to respond to this as a publisher and as k christian serrano you know game designer publisher of the material plane you know and um and so that was that was that you want to talk about a tightrope balancing act that was definitely one um
00:29:55
Speaker
Yeah. And I even had like somebody you else even asked me, ah Oh, do you know so-and-so? And I'm like, Oh yeah, let me tell you about this person. It was like, that was the behind closed doors version of that conversation.
00:30:06
Speaker
But, um, but yeah, so I think, you know, it' it be conscientious of that, you know, of when you have adversity in, ah in the community, how you handle it and how you approach it can make a big difference.
00:30:22
Speaker
You know, you can either turn people off, push them away, Or you can still defend yourself, but in a way that's respected, yeah you know? Yeah. Um, I think that, um,
00:30:36
Speaker
You know, my my therapist has said, you know, because I'm a nine, I care about what people
Filtering Feedback
00:30:42
Speaker
think. I can't help it. know yeah I'm so harmonizing, meaning I want everybody to live in harmony. And the way the world is right now, it's very, very hard for somebody like me, yeah for for all of us. Right. Oh, my heart hurts.
00:30:58
Speaker
And. My therapist is like, look, when you're when you're looking at stuff like this and and you're putting yourself out there, there's going to be a certain low percentage of people who are going to hate you and your stuff no matter what you do. There's nothing you can do about it.
00:31:17
Speaker
And then there's going to be a certain small percentage, similar percentage that of people who love you and you can't do any wrong. And he's like, what you need to do is find a way to sort of not excise, but ignore both those sections of people and listen to the rest Right.
00:31:39
Speaker
You know, it's when when you're thinking about a bell curve. Yes. Right. Those, those edges, just cut those edges. You just need to to cut them off because, yeah because they're not doing you any favors.
00:31:51
Speaker
Neither. Right. Right. And, uh, if you can do that, that'll make your life a lot easier. Yeah. It's hard, super hard to do it. But when you're in a creative space and you're putting yourself out there and you're trying your best and you know you're already self-conscious about what you're doing, um and it's hard.
00:32:14
Speaker
Yeah. But you have to otherwise. And part of it is like what we've talked about before. It's like, well, look, I mean, I'm going to do it anyway. I have to. It's who I am. And so you have to figure out a way not to torture yourself with what people think of it.
00:32:30
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Or what people might think of it, which is more to the point, I suppose. Well, that's a good point because like, when you start putting your stuff out there, even if it's still, you know, not fully finished, it might be early versions or play testing or whatever, sharing like the jumpstart, for example, you know, how you receive criticism or critiquing, let's say,
00:32:55
Speaker
um you know, there's, there's a certain amount of grace that you need to, you know, have with that. Right. um In some ways, you know, it might be a thing where maybe there's something valid there.
00:33:07
Speaker
Maybe there's like you know you could approach it with with curiosity. Like, oh, you know say more about that or tell me more. you know Oh, I see. Maybe it's because you're misunderstanding this thing or whatever it might be.
00:33:19
Speaker
um But also, even when you're you're giving criticism or feedback to somebody, and think it's important to to be mindful about how you do so.
00:33:31
Speaker
you know it You don't want to come off as... you know, well, I'm a game designer and I'm, I'm an expert and you should listen to me.
Constructive Critiques
00:33:41
Speaker
Maybe, you know, or I see a lot of people who default to, well, I would have done it this way. I wouldn't have done it that way.
00:33:48
Speaker
It's like, well, maybe instead of saying that, ask, hey, why did you do it that way? Like, what was what was the reason behind that? Right? And I think that's a more fruitful conversation because there might be a perspective that you didn't see.
00:34:04
Speaker
You know, like, you know, there might be a reason why they went with that approach and it could be just personal preference for all of you. You know, um so yeah, i think I think even in those kinds of engagements, you get it.
00:34:15
Speaker
You gotta be, you know, be careful, be considerate. Yep. And this all, this may not seem like it relates to building the audience, but it is, it does. It is. Cause, cause who you are will matter, right? Yeah. How people perceive you will matter.
00:34:35
Speaker
It takes time to do this. It takes it does takes time. Yeah. And, um, on top of that, Once you get there, you'll get to the marketing. You'll get to the hype, you know, which is a necessary part of of releasing a product.
00:34:54
Speaker
But um if you've got people in your corner and I, you know, we we call them super backers, people that Really are invested with what you're doing and who you are.
00:35:06
Speaker
Who are willing to go the extra mile and share stuff and talk to other people about your stuff. And when you need help, when you need that support ah people of people, of a small number of people who are willing to be loud and proud about what you're trying to do.
00:35:23
Speaker
That is invaluable. And that's really what you're trying to build in this long-term kind of slow burn way. It's like your ambassadors.
00:35:33
Speaker
Your ambassadors. Exactly. yeah Exactly. yeah And I'm lucky to have a lot of them. But part of that has to do, as as John Doom says, is with my superpower, which is I'm able to cultivate relationships and in ways ways that many others have trouble with.
00:35:50
Speaker
um And I'm lucky that way. i'm just it's it's It's my superpower. I've got flaws all over the place, but that was one um that's one of my better ones. And so, yeah, that building and authentically building an audience means finding those people who can be your cheerleaders when you are at your low level.
00:36:08
Speaker
lowest point when you need them the most. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think historically I've seen publishers and game designers who have positioned themselves in a sort of ivory tower and they separate themselves from the community a little bit beyond or or to the point where it's just, let me pitch you the work I'm doing. Yeah.
00:36:34
Speaker
Right. And that that feels disingenuine. You know, and it's like when you're when you're kind of detaching yourself and putting yourself at a tier above, just feels, that always felt weird to me. You know, I see people now doing more about like engaging directly in and, know, having a more personal experience.
00:36:54
Speaker
And I think that is doing a lot more for the industry, especially in this day and age. Yeah. You know, it's, I mean, yeah, things have changed since the days of balloon boards and forms.
00:37:09
Speaker
Yeah. For sure. In some ways, it feels like the the world's getting bigger, but also smaller at the same time. Yep. Yep. it's It's not easy.
00:37:20
Speaker
I mean, it yeah and and the bigger you get, I'm sure the the more you have to protect yourself. But right now, sure um I have some protection up, of course. Right. But I still am just trying to be enthusiastic about what I'm doing.
00:37:35
Speaker
Yeah. And people, it rubs off on people, for sure. Oh, yeah. I mean, when I played in your game, it definitely rubs off. I was like, oh. I feel this enthusiasm and I'm enthused.
Relationships in Industry Success
00:37:47
Speaker
You know, it's, it's, it's so self-evident when it, you know, when you're there and, ah and you know going back to the, doing con games and being in person and interacting in person with, with, with people and with, you know, also sometimes the, the audience, they become your friends too.
00:38:03
Speaker
And that's just as important, you know, whether, whether they're other game designers or people who just love your products or your contributions, you know, or other people who are doing similar things to you, you know, like they're making their own contributions and they share ideas and, you know, these things matter yeah and they really, really, you know, can, can affect, you know, just, just how people see you and how you see yourself and how you see others.
00:38:30
Speaker
Yeah. It's hard to make it in any industry without relationships. Yeah. Yep. All right. Are we done talking esoterically for these last two weeks so that I can have my mental health preserved?
00:38:49
Speaker
That makes both of us, Tracy. That makes both us. Yeah. It's been, it's been an interesting time, but yes, I think, I think we covered, I mean, there's so much more we could say about this.
Accountability in Audience Interactions
00:38:59
Speaker
Um, but, uh, you know, it just comes down to, you know, be accountable, be respectful and, um, yeah. And just, just really think about who you want your audience to be and how, what kind of relationship you want to have with them.
00:39:16
Speaker
So at the time of this podcast coming out, you've got a week and two days left to
Promoting HonCluster Kickstarter
00:39:22
Speaker
back on cluster. If you're interested in doing that and, uh, you are interested in doing that.
00:39:27
Speaker
Um, because this is two weeks before i have no idea where it's going to be at that point, but I'm, I'm already is enthused and ecstatic about how it's going so far. So thank you all in advance and in retrospect for, uh,
00:39:42
Speaker
ah your support and for letting me talk about the setting on this podcast i really do appreciate it and it's out there it's still alive so if you haven't backed it yet and you're interested please give it a look and there it is i was first yeah you cheated what i don't know what you're talking about that's ridiculous All right.
00:40:04
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Designing Problems podcast. We want this to be more than a podcast. We want it to be a community. If you'd like to engage directly with us share your creative triumphs, your roadblocks, or simply interact with a cool group of supportive people, we have our own Discord server.
00:40:19
Speaker
Please come by, join the discussion, and share some inspiration. Until next time, keep designing your problems because you're bound to solve a along the way.