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The Health Implications of Your Brain's Lymphatic Drainage System w/ Dr Raymond Perrin - Ep24
253 Plays5 years ago
Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/q_0SpNmaDXg
Get this episode on your favourite podcast player here: https://christianyordanov.com/24-dr-raymond-perrin/
On this episode of Connecting Minds I had the honour of talking with Dr Raymond Perrin. Dr Perrin is a Registered Osteopath, Neuroscientist and Specialist in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome ME/CFS.
He proposed that there is a lymphatic drainage system of the brain DECADES before the science caught up with and validated his theory. This system is essential in draining large molecules from the brain through the cerebrospinal fluid. The accumulation of inflammatory chemicals and other toxic substances in the brain’s lymphatic system can lead to not just CFS, but numerous other conditions that Dr Perrin terms neuro-lymphatic drainage disorders.
Dr Perrin also developed a treatment, The Perrin Technique™, that he has successfully employed to help sufferers of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/Myalgic Encephalomyelitis.
Links to Dr Perrin’s resources and social media:
Website: https://theperrintechnique.com/
The Perrin Technique 2nd edition: How To Diagnose and Treat Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/ME and Fibromyalgia via the Lymphatic Drainage of the Brain: https://www.amazon.com/Perrin-Technique-2nd-fibromyalgia-lymphatic-ebook/dp/B08T5X7SKJ/
Contact Dr Perrin at: info [at] theperrinclinic.com for information on practitioner training.
Links to Christian’s book and social media:
My first book Autism Wellbeing Plan: How to Get Your Child Healthy: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B084GBBDL9
Website: https://christianyordanov.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/christian_yorda
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBu5V9XLVnr-Mlh8etxiG4w
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChristianYordanovCoach
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/christian_yordanov/
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Transcript
Introduction to Dr. Raymond Perrin and his groundbreaking work
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Connecting Minds podcast. My name is Christian Jardinov and thank you so much for joining me today. Today I have the privilege of interviewing Dr. Raymond Perrin. He's a registered osteopath, neuroscientist, and specialist in chronic fatigue syndrome. Now, interesting thing about Dr. Perrin is that
00:00:19
Speaker
decades ago, he proposed that there's a lymphatic drainage system of the brain. And only in recent years has the science caught up and validated his theories. So he's been ahead of the game for decades. And the important thing about this
00:00:38
Speaker
Your lymphatic drainage system is that it's essential in draining large molecules from the brain. So if
The Perrin Technique: Diagnosing and treating lymphatic drainage disorders
00:00:45
Speaker
there is a buildup of these large molecules in the brain, which could be inflammatory molecules that the immune system produces, it can be environmental toxins of which we know there's a plethora out there.
00:00:56
Speaker
and other molecules that can be caused by stress. If there's a buildup of these toxins, it can cause all manner of dysfunction, right? So he not only theorized that there's the system there, but he created his trademark technique, the parent technique, which he uses to diagnose and treat disorders of your lymphatic drainage, right? So his specialty is chronic fatigue syndrome.
00:01:26
Speaker
or myalgic encephalomyelitis, but there are also a number of other conditions that he terms neuro lymphatic drainage disorders. And for the rest of us that may not necessarily have a chronic condition, supporting this neuro lymphatic drainage is a vital part of staying healthy as we age, which I'm sure is important to many of you out there listening.
00:01:51
Speaker
So we're all going to learn a ton on this episode. Dr. Perrin just published the second edition of his book, which we will discuss on the episode a little bit more about him. So he is honorary clinical research fellow at the Faculty of Biology, Medicine and Health at the University of Manchester. Dr. Perrin qualified in 1984 from the British School of Osteopathy in London. He has extensive experience
Dr. Perrin's research journey and contributions to ME/CFS understanding
00:02:15
Speaker
treating top sportsmen and women, including Olympic athletes.
00:02:19
Speaker
In 1991, he was appointed official osteopath to the World Student Games Sheffield. Dr. Perrin's research since 1989 into ME CFS has expanded our knowledge of the disease and how to diagnose and treat it.
00:02:34
Speaker
In July 2005, he was awarded a doctorate by the University of Salford UK for his thesis on the involvement of cerebrospinal fluid and lymphatic drainage in chronic fatigue syndrome, myalgic encephalomyelitis. Since 2007, he has also held the academic post of honorary senior lecturer at the Allied
00:02:58
Speaker
Health Professionals Research Institute, University of Central Lancashire in Preston, UK.
00:03:05
Speaker
He was appointed member of the scientific committee for the second, third, and fourth World Congress of Neurobiology and Psychopharmacology affiliated with the European Association of Psychiatrists annual conference in Greece. In 2015, he joined the international faculty of the German School of Osteopathy in Hamburg and teaches osteopathic theory and practice to students in colleges all over Europe. He has lectured internationally and in the UK to ME CFS patient groups
00:03:34
Speaker
and the medical profession on the manual diagnosis and treatment of ME CFS. He has published
The science behind lymphatic drainage and its health implications
00:03:40
Speaker
papers in major medical journals including the BMJ and is the author of the best-selling book The Parent Technique How to Beat Chronic Fatigue Syndrome slash ME published by Hammersmith Press London in 2007
00:03:53
Speaker
And as I already mentioned, his new book, the pairing technique, second edition, how to diagnose and treat chronic fatigue syndrome, ME and fibromyalgia via the lymphatic system of the brain is also published by Hammersmith Press London in March 2021.
00:04:09
Speaker
Dr. Perrin is a vice patron of the University College of Osteopathy and in 2015 was the recipient of the inaugural research and practice award from the Institute of Osteopathy. He is a founder member of the newly formed International Osteopathic Research Group and still continues to run clinics in Manchester and London, specializing in the treatment of ME, CFS and fibromyalgia.
00:04:34
Speaker
If you think that was a long bio, that was actually the short bio that he sent me, right? So it's a great honor to have Dr. Perrin such a accomplished and knowledgeable person on the podcast. I learned a ton of things that I had no idea about.
00:04:49
Speaker
about the lymphatic drainage of the brain and how the lymphatic system works and how things can go wrong there and cause dysfunction, right? So I'm eagerly waiting for my copy of his book that I ordered so I can dig into the latest research and findings since he published his first book. And I think, and if you or someone you know is suffering from chronic fatigue syndrome,
00:05:14
Speaker
I think this would be probably one of the best resources that you can get for yourself or for your friend or loved one. For more information on Dr. Perrin, his website, links to his book, his contact details, please check out the show notes or the episode website. Hope you enjoyed the episode. And once again, thank you so much for joining me on the Connecting Minds podcast. And without further ado, here is Dr. Raymond Perrin. Dr. Raymond Perrin, thank you so much for joining us on Connecting Minds today.
00:05:42
Speaker
Thank you very much, Christian. It's a pleasure to be here. Great. Can you tell the listeners a little bit about your background, who you are, what you do, and what are you known for? Different people will say different things, I think. I'm an osteopath and a neuroscientist. I
00:06:05
Speaker
I graduated from the British School of Osteopathy in London, which is now the University College of Osteopathy in 1984. And once I qualified as an osteopath, I was going to make my name in sports medicine. And I came up north to Manchester, where I grew up. And I set my
Case studies and personal experiences in treating ME patients
00:06:30
Speaker
first practice up here.
00:06:32
Speaker
And I started treating quite a few sports people, sportsmen and women. And one of the teams I was treating was the top cycling team called the Valley Banana team. People into cycling would know that they were the precursors of the British Sky team and that became the top team in Manchester area. They set the velodrome up in Manchester. But before that,
00:07:01
Speaker
the valley banana team were the top British team and I was treating quite a few of them and one of them recommended a person who hadn't been cycling for seven years but he came to me with back problems and he said he's not been cycling because he's got ME and I heard about ME in a lecture when I was in college in one of the lectures we had was on psychosomatic disorders
00:07:30
Speaker
So I started saying, well, I can treat you back. In those days, in the 1980s, it was called yuppie flu. They reckon that young, upward, no-bar people, yuppies, developed this illness. And so I tend to love and care, smiled at him, and I said, I'll treat you back and posture. Anyway, he'd been ill for seven years with this, I mean, and he hadn't been cycling for that long. And me patients can't do any exercise without feeling much worse.
00:07:59
Speaker
post exertion malaise that they get. So he had the treatment for his posture and as I improved his spinal mechanics he said you know I'm starting to feel much more energy and within a few weeks he was much better and within a few months he was symptom free.
00:08:18
Speaker
He said, I've been everywhere in the world to try and get better from this army and you've cured me. I said, no way. It's a coincidence. He said, no, you have. He said, you've got to look into this. He came with a pile of papers and he said,
00:08:35
Speaker
you've got to investigate this because you've got your fancy that nobody else has. I was very inquisitive. I used to always be the person in college to put their hand up and delve into abstract thinking and always thinking out of the box and driving all my lectures completely mad. I decided to look into
00:09:02
Speaker
what he was saying. And sure enough, I found that there was a possible link. As an osteopath, we're trained to know the link between the spine and other problems in the body through the autonomic nervous system, specifically the sympathetics, which are in the mid thoracic area, in the thoracic spine. And in the mid thoracic area, there's a lot of sympathetic activity going on. And
00:09:30
Speaker
I started treating people's spines for similar sorts of conditions, and sure enough, their symptoms improved. And I thought, well, there's a link. And the more and more I looked into this, the more and more patients I realized who had chronic back problems had similar symptoms to the cyclist. And I published a paper early on in the 90s in the British Osteopathic Journal
00:09:59
Speaker
And it's a shame because I wasn't steeped in science in those days and the paper was just an observational paper and it's sort of how not to write a scientific paper, but it actually showed that there was a biomechanical perspective that people should look into. And then I started investigating further and started to write my own
00:10:28
Speaker
theories down in pen and paper onto a book and I realised that the only way I'm going to really be accepted and my ideas being accepted if I did proper scientific research at a university. I was telling one of our patients about this idea and he said that he knows a professor who would be very interested in this work and
00:10:55
Speaker
He introduced me to Professor Jack Edwards at Salford University in Manchester. As I said, the rest is history. Then I started doing research. I did master's research first. Then I went on, upgraded it to a PhD, carried on 11 years at Salford University, published a few papers.
Insights from "The Perrin Technique" book and scientific findings
00:11:15
Speaker
Eventually, in 2005, I got a doctorate in the field of my research into ME, which was the involvement of the cerebrospinal fluid and lymphatic system in the brain, draining toxins out that led to the successful treatment of ME.
00:11:42
Speaker
And this was my basic pet theory that was published as a thesis for my doctorate in 2005. My then first book came out in 2007, which was the parent technique based on my research and my doctorate. And now my PhD was in the department of biological sciences, but it was primarily in the neuroscience
00:12:12
Speaker
section so since then I've spent many years post-doc doing research into neuroscience so technically I'm an osteopath and a neuroscientist and I'm still doing research I'm carrying on and you never stop really and what I've learned over the years has now been validated by scientific discovery and that's why I've just
00:12:41
Speaker
bringing it out this week and March 11th, this goes on for sale. And this is a parent technique, second edition, which is subtitled how to diagnose and treat chronic fatigue syndrome, ME and fibromyalgia, which we can talk about a bit, via the lymphatic drainage of the brain. So what I say to people, it does what it says on the tin. It actually shows
00:13:09
Speaker
shows people what we're actually doing. And we've got a lovely diagram, don't know if you can see it, but it shows that the diagram shows the drainage of the brain using manual techniques. And we can use this for this knowledge that we have that is now being proven that there is a drainage system of the brain into lymphatics. When I came up with this theory, all those many years ago, that there was a lymphatic drainage of the brain,
00:13:40
Speaker
And it was completely out of the universe. And so that's why I'm so excited that we're able to bring the new book out with scientific fact rather than theory to show that there is this drainage and that all my theories have been validated by scientific discovery over the last 30 years really. So that's basically me.
00:14:11
Speaker
That's quite a story. Back in 2017, you must have really been laughing out loud when they published the research around the glymphatic system.
00:14:27
Speaker
Yeah, well, it's in 2012, Jeff and his colleagues at Rochester University showed there was a drainage system of the brain through these spaces. So the theory was always, I know I wasn't myself only, there were other scientists around the world who were coming up with the same theory. I've just, what I've done is developed a treatment based on this theory and try to
00:14:55
Speaker
prove that this treatment works and using diagnostic techniques based on this drainage system. So rather than just academically sort of looking at it in a scientific way in a lab or writing papers, we're putting it into the world of medicine and osteopathic medicine and manual therapy. We're showing we can actually do something about this knowledge that we've acquired and we can actually
00:15:23
Speaker
diagnose if people have a problem with this drainage, and we can treat it if you know what to do. And that's what I've spent 30 years. But it's exciting because in 2012, Jeff and his colleagues showed it was happening in mice. What we also showed, what was shown further on, that it actually was in humans as well. And I have a picture in my new book,
00:15:51
Speaker
which was in nice beautiful colors. Most of the pictures are black and white, but we have a color plate in the middle of the book, which will... Here we are. And I don't know if you can see this, but that image is an image which was produced in America by a scientist in 2017, and the green,
Impact of toxins and dysfunctional lymphatic systems on health
00:16:20
Speaker
of in the image of the brain of a 47 year old woman shows the lymphatic drainage of the brain in humans. So it was 2017, you're correct that it actually proved that there was a lymphatic drainage of the brain in from cerebrospinal fluid in the brain into lymphatics. And they said, wow, this is amazing. This could explain if this system goes wrong, it could explain so many different disorders.
00:16:49
Speaker
Well, I'm sort of 30 years ahead of the game because this is what I hypothesized all those years ago. It's amazing. Can you just, for the layman, can we just discuss what are these toxins that are building up in the brain? What are the effects?
00:17:17
Speaker
How does the lymphatic drainage system become dysfunctional for us? Maybe not necessarily just for CFS folks. There are lots of different conditions that I term neuro lymphatic disorders. So that might be my final book when I fill out to write a book for the general medical world on neuro lymphatic disorders.
00:17:48
Speaker
But basically, these toxins can come in all shapes and sizes. One of the first names for ME, chronic fatigue syndrome, was post-viral fatigue or post-viral fatigue syndrome. This was based on an infection that went around in the 1950s in the Royal Free Hospital in London.
00:18:18
Speaker
a lot of people having this infection of unknown origin, they develop this chronic fatigue, post-viral fatigue. So the question is, what's happening? It's not viral, it's post-viral or post-infectious.
00:18:35
Speaker
And right now, this is very topical because now we're seeing this long COVID, this post COVID-19 syndrome. And we published, myself and my colleagues in the research colleagues published a paper, a letter in June last year in Journal of Medical Hypothesis. And we published this letter saying that there's going to be a major worldwide pandemic
00:19:05
Speaker
of the post-COVID syndrome, post-19. So it's not just going to be this terrible killer virus, but afterwards there's going to be this continuing effect on many patients. And we knew this because of what was researched in 2003 in SARS. So I'll discuss that in more detail. But what are we dealing with? And it's amazing because of the
00:19:30
Speaker
Because of the COVID-19 pandemic, a lot of people now are familiar with terms we've been using for years, especially in my thesis. I have a whole section on what we call cytokines. Cytokines are large protein molecules that the body produces. They're very well known. Some of them are very well known, interleukins, interferons. People know about interferons from cancer treatments, from chemotherapy.
00:19:59
Speaker
interleukins, interferons used in chemo. So what are these interleukins and interferons? What are these cytokines? And they're basically signaling molecules, as I say to my patients, they attach to any bug, any virus.
00:20:14
Speaker
and they attach and say, kooey, Mr. Antibody, we're here. And then the body attacks those viruses or bacteria that the cytokines have attached to. So then afterwards, these cytokines have to be decommissioned, have to be
00:20:31
Speaker
broken down and taken away and drained away and the lymphatic system, that's what it's there for, it's there for the large molecules to drain away large molecules. This is the key factor about the lymphatics.
00:20:46
Speaker
You have the blood to drain toxins. So why do we need another system? And how I explain it very simply, visually, is blood have capillaries that take in toxins. And the small capillaries, the very minor blood vessels have walls like a mesh, like a filter. So small molecules can get through there.
00:21:08
Speaker
Large molecules can't. So we need another system. And lymphatic capillaries, their capillaries, have walls like gills of a fish opening and closing. And they allow the large molecules to enter. So therefore large
Lymphatic system's role in neurological health and disorder prevention
00:21:22
Speaker
molecules can get in through the lymphatics and they drain them through the lymphatic vessels all around the body to eventually everything goes into the subclavian veins, which are the veins just beneath the collarbone.
00:21:36
Speaker
and that then goes into the blood system, so the catatomy system, it goes through the heart and into the liver and detoxifies. Some may go out through the bowels, through the waterworks, through the skin, through different areas, but then eventually most of the toxins are detoxified in the liver and that's how the body works and that's what the lymphatic is there for. Now in the brain,
00:22:02
Speaker
These cytokines can enter the brain as well. But the thing is that there's other toxins. There's environmental pollutants, heavy metals, loads of different chemicals. Tens of thousands of different chemicals are being produced all the time by different chemical firms. And in the environment, we're breathing and drinking and eating them all day long. And then there's other
00:22:29
Speaker
forms of unseen radiation, which is toxins as well. And so there's lots of different forms of toxicity, but one of the main forms of toxicity that create a lot of chemicals in the brain that need to be drained away is stress, emotional stress. So that is also part of the buildup of toxins. So you've got physical stress damage can cause buildup of cytokines as well.
00:22:59
Speaker
inflammation. So there's inflammatory toxins on top of the cytokines. There's things called prostaglandins. So there's lots of different large molecules that build up in cases of chronic inflammation or chronic infection or chronic stress or chronic physical damage. And this buildup of toxins needs lymphatics to drain the large molecules away. The blood is not good enough.
00:23:28
Speaker
The thing is that with the brain, and this is the key part, the brain has a barrier, the blood-brain barrier. And that stops any large molecules entering the brain. And therefore, the brain doesn't need a lymphatic system. And in all the manuals and all the books and everything about lymphatics, you won't find a picture that says, you know, until recently, that showed
00:23:54
Speaker
an emphatic drainage of the vein because you don't need one because you've got this barrier stopping any large molecules. But then I was thinking years ago
00:24:04
Speaker
And you were telling me earlier that you lived in Ireland. So you know straight away when the Brexit, when we were having the vote on Brexit years ago in the UK, nobody talked about the problems we're going to face with Northern Ireland and the South. How are we going to manage that if we have a Brexit? And sure enough, when the Brexit vote came through and it was, everybody started saying,
00:24:31
Speaker
What are we going to do about Ireland? And it's amazing how people all over the world talked about the blood-brain barrier stopping any large molecules entering the brain without the thought, well, wait a second, what about hormones? Hormones are huge molecules and they enter the brain. There's seven areas of the brain that large molecules enter. There's gaps in the blood-brain barrier.
00:24:57
Speaker
That's how the hormones enter, especially around the area of the brain called the hypothalamus, which is the mother of the hormonal system. All hormones in the body are controlled. People always think the pituitary gland runs the show. It's not the hypothalamus runs the pituitary gland and it runs the adrenal glands and runs the thyroid glands.
00:25:19
Speaker
This is the hypothalamus, and it does it by a mechanism called biofeedback. So let's take a classic biofeedback mechanism, insulin. Insulin is produced by the pancreas in your tummy, and the pancreas produces this insulin, and the insulin is a hormone that is a large protein molecule, and it's huge. Blood-brain barrier, by the way, does allow, we know it does very small molecules in,
00:25:48
Speaker
Blood-brain barrier is made of tight junctions that are so tightly packed together, only very small molecules can get through, such as water. Water is 18 Dalton's large. Dalton's the size of a molecule. I'm always proud to say Dalton, because John Dalton, whose name goes on the size of molecules, came from Manchester. He's a fellow Mancunian. Dalton, see, 18 Dalton's water molecule gets into the blood-brain barrier. We know that.
00:26:17
Speaker
an insulin molecule is 5,808 daltons. It's huge. How can it possibly get through? But it does, because the hypothalamus measures the insulin, and we know in the hypothalamus and the vein, there's receptor sites for insulin, and it gets in there. So we know that the blood-brain barrier is not a very good barrier at all, and large molecules can get in all the time.
00:26:43
Speaker
And then what happens is the hypothalamus measures the incident and then sends messages back to the pancreas to produce more or less. And this mechanism, which is called biofeedback, is known throughout the whole world and it's accepted. So why did they not think this when they said, well, the blood-brain barrier stops any large molecules getting in there, for there can't be a lymphatic system. There has to be a lymphatic system to help with all the other rubbish that comes into the brain through these spaces.
00:27:11
Speaker
And there are seven areas that are weak in the brain that allow large molecules in. So we need a system. And luckily for us eventually, using technology that we didn't have at the time, the scientists in Rochester discovered that this drainage system does exist and then in mice and then eventually in humans.
00:27:35
Speaker
But it had to be there, and we just took time to actually have the technology to find it. But these are the toxins we're talking about. Any large molecules that the blood can't cope with are ones that the lymphatics need to, and indeed they do very well. But if, and this is the problem, if there's damage to this drainage system,
00:28:00
Speaker
So it could be hereditary. The drainage system that we talk about, what the Americans now term the glymphatic system, are a system of drainage from the glial cells in the brain, which are part of the cells that are found in the brain. And these glial cells can be packed with toxins, and we need to drain these toxins out through spaces around blood vessels
00:28:28
Speaker
that supply the nerves. So these blood vessels in the brain and down the nerve pathways, these are blood vessels that are needed for the nerves to work. They supply the blood. But around the lumen of the blood vessel, around the part where the blood is, there's a space. And this space is known as the perivascular space. And it's this space that I hypothesized was the drainage of the brain
00:28:58
Speaker
And if it wasn't working properly, then you're going to have a buildup of poisons. Now that buildup of poisons will affect what we've said before, the hypothalamus. And around that area as well, Illif and his colleagues in Rochester discovered that when they stopped the drainage from working, it built up around the hypothalamus in areas called the thalamus and the basal ganglia. And this is all forms part of the limbic system, the emotional side of your brain.
00:29:28
Speaker
So this buildup of toxins in this area, what it does, it causes a dysfunction or a disturbance of the hypothalamus and this whole region of the brain. Now this is where you can then understand what's going on and understand the pathogenesis, the structure of this disease process.
00:29:52
Speaker
Because what happens then, the hypothalamus, besides controlling the hormones and this whole region of the brain, is a major area of control of the autonomic nervous system, the sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic nervous system. And we know that lymphatic vessels have sympathetic control that allow them to pump the lymph along.
Diagnostic methods and treatment techniques for lymphatic issues
00:30:18
Speaker
And especially the main duct, the thoracic duct,
00:30:21
Speaker
has a pump of around four beats a minute, and it's controlled by smooth muscle walls all along the vessel. And you know, when I studied physiology all those years ago in the British school of osteopathy, I was not taught that. I was taught that there was no pumping mechanism of the lymph. It's just because of squeezing of blood vessels and squeezing of muscles around the lymph that pushes it along. A bit like a tube of toothpaste, you know, squeezing it up. And we were told there's no actual intrinsic pump.
00:30:50
Speaker
many doctors of my age and older would not have been taught that there is a lymphatic drainage control by sympathetic nerves and even the smaller vessels have sympathetic nerves attached to the smooth muscle walls pumping the lymph along and this leads to a problem because if this whole area in the brain is being poisoned and the sympathetic control is being damaged
00:31:21
Speaker
instead of pumping outwards, the pump will go the wrong way. It will be a reversal of this pump, which will lead to a backflow of lymphatic vessel of flow. And this is what I have discovered with ME and fibromyalgia, but other conditions. So physically, we can actually feel the backflow. We can feel the congestion building up in the
00:31:48
Speaker
in the surface vessels, especially in this area. In the neck and the chest, we feel what we call varicose lymphatics. And these were described originally by Professor John Kinman, who was a professor who wrote a major seminal works in the 1970s and 80s. He died, sorry, he died in 1981, I think. But in the 1970s, he was doing a lot of work on lymphatics. And he called them varicose megalymphatics.
00:32:17
Speaker
And he never showed an actual visual picture, an actual picture of these varicose lymphatics, because he was a surgeon and he saw this during his surgical time when he was actually opening people's chests. He saw these large lymphatic vessels. But we managed to identify these, I managed to identify these very early on.
00:32:46
Speaker
And in my book, in my earlier book and this book, the present book, we actually show a picture of the first photo ever taken of a wave of varicose lymphatics in the surface, where you can actually see the backflow of the congestion building up. And this congestion is due to the sympathetic control of the lymphatics
00:33:11
Speaker
pumping the wrong way, creating large beaded vessels that go larger and larger and stop the flow from draining the right way. So this is including the drainage from the brain and it will pump the wrong way.
00:33:28
Speaker
and the toxins instead of draining out from the brain. And the main area of the drainage is the area called the cribriform plate, which is a plate just above the nasal bone. And this is part of the ethmoid bone and that has little perforations. And this drainage is the main area of olfactory nerves where from the brain they go in through this area
00:33:56
Speaker
into the nose, the olfactory pathway. This is the olfactory pathway, and it's a main area of drainage of the brain. And this was hypothesized by other scientists before me. But what we've shown is that if we can help drain this toxins out, we can help the problems building up in this area. But this also explains, when this backflow occurs, it explains the loss of smell people are having
00:34:26
Speaker
post-COVID now. When they're having COVID, the infection, what happens is the pathway goes in through the nasal passages into the brain, hitting the hypothalamus, and the hypothalamus then is the center of fever as a nucleus that controls temperature regulations and also
00:34:49
Speaker
If it's stimulated, it will also create a fever in the bud. And what we see with people with Covid, they have lots of smell followed by high fever. So it's the toxins going into there and the cytokines being produced by the virus. So you have a viral load hitting the brain, creating lots of cytokines. And you hear this term cytokine storm.
00:35:14
Speaker
in the brain, and it's not draining away. So it's the people that have a drainage problem to begin with, will develop this long COVID. So it doesn't drain away, it just stays in the body, it stays in
Managing chronic conditions with lymphatic drainage
00:35:28
Speaker
the brain. And why do they not have this problem in the first place? It could be from years and years of physical damage of the head, it could be from birth, they might have been born and put pressure on their head, and it could have
00:35:42
Speaker
created a slight change in the drainage of the brain, which years later causes a problem. Or they could have had a major trauma to the forehead or the back, but it's not just the head, it's also, and it's not just the cribriform plates and the olfactory, it's also the optic nerve, the trigeminal nerves, the auditory nerves. Just recently I had a patient who was treating for ME, chronic fatigue syndrome,
00:36:11
Speaker
And they went back to the, they started getting blurred vision long into the treatment and they were doing really well, but they started, the vision started getting a bit blurred. So I said to go to the optician and they went there and the optician examined and said, this is, this is very strange. And they tried to go with different prescriptions and he put the prescription on, on the eyes and she could see perfectly. And he said, I've got to send you to a specialist cause I've never seen this in all the years as, as an optician. She says, what's this? So these are your glasses from two years ago.
00:36:41
Speaker
your eyesight is improving. He couldn't understand it. We're draining the toxins away from the pathway right next to the optic nerve. The pair of vascular spaces next to the optic nerve will irritate the nerve if the toxins build up there. Our drainage techniques help that. We're seeing this again and again that patients
00:37:05
Speaker
once we've got the drainage system working in the head and the spine, because the spine has drainage systems as well. So they could have had injuries in the spine years ago. It could have been postural. Mechanical problems develop during maybe a very active youth. During teenage years, your spine develops. And if you're very, very active, very sporty, your spine will develop slightly wrong and you'll end up with problems in the posture.
00:37:34
Speaker
of your spine, which can affect this drainage as well. So we're seeing this again and again, most patients... What about sitting? Sitting as well. They're slouching too much. But even with the slouching, and they're curving a lot of students, they're sitting over books, and we find one area is quite flattened and restricted in the middle. And that's, again, this postural problem that happens from people who are very active. But even people who are inactive
00:38:03
Speaker
can develop spinal problems that can cause drainage problems in the future. So it's the spine and the cranium and the head.
00:38:13
Speaker
that we look at as osteopaths, I look at in the structural way and by doing techniques to stimulate the drainage using cranial techniques and stimulating the spine to move better and stimulating the lymph to work better against this backflow. So instead of going up into the brain and down into the rest of the body, we pump it, I call it the concertina effect.
00:38:41
Speaker
pushing down and pulling up, creating a pressure within this area. And this concertina effect creates another physical effect, not like a concertina, like an accordion. So it pushes the pressure in there. And this eventually creates a pressure that then pushes the lymph into the bloodstream the way it should go.
00:39:05
Speaker
Now this then creates a continuing pressure gradient, which we call the siphon effect. And anybody would have known if you've had a fish tank and you want to clear the fish tank out, you take a tube
00:39:19
Speaker
you suck it up and then it just continues the tube we're carrying on. I always joke with some patients from a place near Manchester, I'm not going to say where, but that's how they get their pets from. Football fans. I'm not going to say anything wrong.
00:39:37
Speaker
But that siphon effect is a physical effect. And so this is the same thing that's what's happening when we do the treatment.
Broadening the scope: Lymphatic drainage in neurological treatment
00:39:51
Speaker
And this drains off the toxins. And using cranial techniques, it helps drain. And the cranial rhythm that we feel as a problem in the first place, because as I said right at the beginning, I'm sorry, a bit digress,
00:40:06
Speaker
It's not just the treatment. The parent technique is the treatment of the lymphatics, but it's also the diagnosis. Because when this drainage system doesn't work, we can fill problems in the cranium.
00:40:22
Speaker
part of what we call cranial osteopathy or cranial sacral therapy, as well as also known as cranial therapy. So what are we feeling? What's going wrong? Well, the drainage of the brain starts inside the brain in the cerebrospinal fluid of the brain, and that's produced by the blood.
00:40:43
Speaker
The blood produces supersonic fluid, it goes around the brain, down the spine, and it goes back into the blood. So it has a rhythm, and the rhythm is the same as the blood, the heart rate, 50 to 100 beats a minute. Some of that drainage now comes out from the brain into the lymphatics. Now we know it definitely exists. So when the lymphatics have a pump, I remember I mentioned earlier, has the smooth muscle walls pump the thoracic duct, and it pumps at a rate around four beats a minute.
00:41:14
Speaker
So you have the heart rate, which is 50 to 100 beats a minute, draining off into the lymphatics, which has a rate around four beats a minute. So when the two waves, a very fast wave comes to a very slow, gentle wave, it produces a third wave. And that third wave in physics is known as the interference wave.
00:41:37
Speaker
And it always exists when you have two waves coming together. You don't need to be a physicist to understand that, you just have to be into a beach. So you go to, most of us have been to a beach, and you've seen a big wave coming in, a small wave going out, and they crash together, and they produce a third wave. And this third wave in the body is the cranial rhythm, or the cranial rhythmic impulse, as they call it in the states. And we can tap into that if you're trained, and you can feel the rhythm.
00:42:06
Speaker
People with neuro lymphatic disorders like ME and fibromyalgia and there's others as well as the research done by ILLIF instead of looking at beta amyloid which is a very large protein molecule and beta amyloid is being linked to Alzheimer's disease. So Alzheimer's is probably another neuro lymphatic disorder.
00:42:29
Speaker
And post-COVID, it definitely is. It's the coronavirus building up and it's just not draining away. So this is why a lot of people get COVID and will recover fine.
00:42:39
Speaker
But the ones who have a drainage problem in the first place will develop this long COVID, this post COVID. And we can treat this. We've just submitted a paper of the first 20 patients analyzed who have had this treatment following long COVID and all done remarkably well. Some amazingly well, some a bit, but they've all improved. Where is that getting published?
00:43:03
Speaker
within three months. Again, we submitted it to a journal, a medical hypothesis, but it's not been, it's just been, it's just been peer reviewed. Yeah, so hopefully, it will be
00:43:20
Speaker
It will be published soon, but we're getting more and more data all the time from practitioners all around the country, around the UK, with details of their long COVID patients. So this is the thing. So the cranial rhythm is this drainage system, and that's one of the physical signs that we feel.
00:43:40
Speaker
So I've mentioned the varicose lymphatics. The spine is definitely, there's a problem in the spine and there's tender points as well related to the sympathetic nervous system and the lymphatic we find. And these are the physical signs that we use to help, not to diagnose, but as an aid of diagnosis in chronic fatigue syndrome, ME, and also fibromyalgia. And we've seen these signs
00:44:06
Speaker
in other conditions, but not as with the long COVID, we've seen the beginnings of all these signs develop. But this predisposes the patient, when they've got this drainage system problem, predisposes the patient to any infection or any trauma or any stress factor, building up problems that aren't going to drain away, leading to
00:44:30
Speaker
worse conditions in the brain and the spine. And that's basically what we're doing. We're diagnosing, we're helping to take the drainage and get it moving in the right direction by standard manual techniques that I've developed and specific ones that I've developed to go against this backflow. So the standard lymphatic drainage that people might get from a manual lymphatic drainage practitioner
00:44:56
Speaker
a massage therapist, go when you've got sluggish lymph. What we're trying to say is it's not sluggish, it's actually going the wrong way. It's reversal of lymph. So the techniques I teach are to go against this backflow and once we've created this pressure, the backflow is reversed and drainage occurs and eventually all the toxins drain away from the vein and then health is restored. It sometimes takes a long time and sometimes
00:45:26
Speaker
There's too much permanent damage to create a good health, but we hope to improve the health of patients. We do help most. We did a survey many years ago which showed 90% of patients improved with our treatment, but it doesn't mean I've got the cure or I don't do magic. I'm not a miracle worker.
Future research and applications of the Perrin Technique
00:45:53
Speaker
and we're dealing with chronic illnesses. These are all chronic illnesses we deal with, ME and Fibromyalgia, the mainstay, but we can't help, we can definitely help, yeah. And you mentioned that potentially in the future you might do a book on a more general, the broader category. What are some other neuro lymphatic disorders that you have identified? Yeah, well, there's other research has shown
00:46:21
Speaker
There's a rare condition, but it's known as Crookville-Dyacops disease, which is also known as mad cow disease in humans. And these are prions, which are large molecules that build up in the brain. And again, it's a research done by a chap called Roy Weller in Southampton University, Professor of Neurophysiology.
00:46:46
Speaker
and his colleagues did research showing that that that Kukwell-Yarkov disease could also be a problem of this lymphatic system of the brain. Alzheimer's is a big one. Alzheimer's again, Loyola and Kerr have done research into that. And as I said, all the studies, early studies on lymphatic drainage of animals, vats and mice were done on beta amyloid, which is
00:47:16
Speaker
one of the precursors of beta-amyloid buildup that leads to Alzheimer's. I've not done research into Alzheimer's, but clinically, I've treated a couple of people with Alzheimer's, early Alzheimer's, and one patient was a father of one of my successes in ME, and he said, well, could you see my dad because he's been diagnosed early Alzheimer's?
00:47:43
Speaker
And if what you say is true, couldn't your treatment help him? I said, well, we don't know. I'll try. And for four years, I was seeing this gentleman. And for four years, honest, honest, Christian, for four years, his symptoms didn't get worse. And sometimes he came in once a month. He used to come with a treatment. He said, do you know what? I've had the best month yet for four years. Now, I don't know anybody else involved in Alzheimer's who's ever seen this before.
00:48:11
Speaker
But Alzheimer's is a progressive neurological disorder. Patients get worse and worse and worse. To have somebody for four years, having no change in the symptoms generally, feeling actually some days better than ever. Some months he said, I can think straight, I've got more energy. And then unfortunately he had a fall.
00:48:35
Speaker
injuring his head and his symptoms went spiralled down very quickly after that and we weren't able to help him anymore. But for four years we kept him going and we have it on record, we have a whole, he's the keeper diary and we've got all his symptoms on record and showing how it did improve in some weeks and some months.
00:49:01
Speaker
but it never got worse for four years. So I feel that early Alzheimer's possibly can be helped. As soon as somebody starts seeing some of the symptoms of Alzheimer's, if we can keep the drainage from getting too much buildup of these toxic protein molecules, the amyloids, then hopefully the person will keep going. Not saying we have a cure for Alzheimer's, we do not.
00:49:27
Speaker
And it might not work for everybody, but if it works for one person, then I've achieved something. What about autism? I know in a subset of children they have seen there's a lot of glial activation. Do you think this could benefit a subset of children?
00:49:43
Speaker
Well, the thing is that when I was in the school of osteopathy, learning my trade, I worked for three years in the college, in the children's clinic, and we saw a lot of autistic kids coming in on the autistic spectrum, and we helped them with cranial.
00:49:59
Speaker
But nobody really understood why we're helping them, but this could be the reason. Yeah, absolutely. And I work until the pandemic. I was working every so often. I was going down to London on a regular basis. I have a clinic in the center of London. I worked together with a neurologist. And this is the London neurology and pain clinic.
00:50:28
Speaker
neurologist I work with. She's a wonderful German neurologist who comes over to England and travels all over the world. And she's a very well known Dr. Grieze Besson, Margaretta Besson. And Margaretta said to me, you know, what we do in this clinic is treat the physiology, not the pathology. It doesn't matter what the condition is. If you're stimulating the drainage of the brain,
00:50:56
Speaker
you're going to help every neurological condition going because you're improving the neurological system. You're improving the central nervous system. So we decided that, you know, right from where we're not going to sort of worry about what the diagnosis is. If we can help stimulate the body to work better, it's going to help neurological problems. And she's a great advocate for that.
00:51:22
Speaker
And so we've treated quite a few different other neurological conditions and given some relief to patients. So we're not curing people, but if we can get this drainage system working better, it's got to help most neurological problems to some extent. And it's worth having a go. Yeah. It can be a pillar of a much broader...
00:51:50
Speaker
Well, I met another neurologist, a chap called Michael Eschet, who's doing research into motor neurone disease, and ALS, I think, specifically, and that's amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. And motor neurone disease, unfortunately, when I was a student, my uncle, he was only 50, my Uncle David died of motor neurone disease. And so sad when he was diagnosed whilst I was in college, and then he died a few years afterwards with only a young fellow.
00:52:20
Speaker
And I suppose it's got me really interested in neuroscience research, trying to look into what was causing motor neuron disease. And possibly, motor neuron disease also has some links to this neuro lymphatic drainage system. So maybe if we help that, we could help other conditions. It's all speculation. So I don't want people to watch this. I'm saying I've got the cure all, we haven't.
00:52:49
Speaker
But I think that a lot of neurological condition might have some of this as an element of their illness. And if we can stimulate, like with other conditions, if you stimulate the lymphatic system, you stimulate the health. Andrew Taylor Still, the founder of osteopathy, said if you don't treat the lymphatic system, this was over 100 years ago, he said this, said if you do not treat your lymphatic system of your patients, he said osteopaths are failing their patients.
00:53:19
Speaker
and should give the money back.
00:53:22
Speaker
And that was over 100 years ago. And I always introduce my, when I lecture to, I lecture all over the world to osteopathic groups and osteopathic students. And I say, up to now, you're not really learning because I teach the lymphatic system. And I say, you've not learned the lymphatic system. So your failure is up to now. After this workshop, you're going to be successful. And no, but it's very, very true. Lymphatics have been part of osteopathy.
The mechanics of the Perrin Technique: Manual and cranial methods
00:53:50
Speaker
I think a forgotten part of osteopathy in many sections and lymphatics is the least taught system in the medical world, in medical colleges. I've been all over the world and all the doctors I've
00:54:06
Speaker
trained up and been to medical school to say we had maybe one lecture on the lymphatic system. The lymphatic system is so important to help with general health and it's so important for every health problem. Likewise, the neuro lymphatic system, the lymphatic system, the system of the brain and the spine should be looked at and when you treat the patient, you should treat this area as well.
00:54:35
Speaker
That's my mission in life to hopefully train up as many practitioners as possible to do the work I've started.
00:54:44
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. We'll talk about that when we wrap up the interview, but let me ask you this. I'm kind of interested a lot in longevity, slowing down aging as much as possible, aging optimally, you know, just getting older, but maintaining as much function, physical, mental, et cetera. How do you think we can apply some of the
00:55:11
Speaker
some of the techniques that you teach to practitioners, how can we apply them to ourselves? Maybe you can discuss a little bit what the actual method involves so that we can maintain this drainage going as we hopefully age healthily.
00:55:27
Speaker
Well, I can say that I do this every day, which I don't, but I'm 61 this year and still got all my hair. But I think that's pure genetic. My father's 90, bless him, and he's still got some of his own colour, and my mother's 89, and she's got a lot of body. So I've got good genes there. I don't think there's anything to do with the parent technique, but who knows?
00:55:56
Speaker
I could be doing the treatment all day long for patients, it's helping me. But I wanted to, it reminds me of, I always joke, when I joined the University of Manchester, because I'm clinical research fellow at the University of Manchester, which is one of the leading research universities in the world, not just in the UK. And they gave me this land yard, I don't know if you can see it, but it says, valid till the 31st of December, the year 4712.
00:56:28
Speaker
So basically, they've obviously got faith in me to stay alive and kick over the next 2,000 years. I think because it's an honour, I've kept this language, I'm very proud of it, but I think it's because I'm honorary that I carry on until I've decided I don't want to do any more research.
00:56:48
Speaker
so they make it unending. So hopefully in a couple of thousand years I'll still be here and I'll be able to go into the university and say I'm still a member of the faculty. But no, seriously, anything to promote health is going to help, aging process, anything to promote drainage of toxins and keeping the body's metabolic processes working
00:57:16
Speaker
as well as possible, it's going to help. So this is why lymphatic drainage generally is good, but new lymphatic drainage hasn't been thought of till recently. And I said we were the, my techniques are the first techniques to actually be implemented as a treatment for it. So hopefully as time goes on, more and more practitioners around the world will be using my techniques.
00:57:44
Speaker
helping all sorts of conditions and also just maintaining good health. You know, I've got some patients who have got better.
00:57:51
Speaker
It's completely better now. There's symptom three. I've got one chap. He said, I think I overdid it. I climbed three mountains last week. I should have just kept to two maybe. I would love to be able to climb. I did climb for charity once. I climbed one or two mountains. In my youth, I did some hiking and things. But at the end of the day,
00:58:20
Speaker
we don't we're not trying to make super humans but these patients are mine i say you don't need to see me anymore and they say no we'll see you in six months or we'll see you in three months because we feel it just gives us a bit of a boost of energy and it keeps us going and you know and years ago i said to some of my earlier patients well i can't get you better but we'll keep you going and hopefully we'll grow old together and we have.
00:58:45
Speaker
I've had some patients who've been seeing me for 25 years and I keep them going. Some patients don't really need much treatment, but they just like to feel that it keeps them straight to narrow. Hopefully, if people find this helpful, when they're ill, when they're healthy,
00:59:06
Speaker
they might find an occasional 10,000 mile service, as I call it, help them. Yeah. And what, what are, can you just give a quick kind of 30,000 foot view of what are the cranial and spinal techniques that a practitioner does? And then what are some of them that you teach in the book? And at that point, then we can kind of, you can discuss the second edition of your book, what's new in there, what's the research, you know, that kind of good stuff.
00:59:35
Speaker
Right, well, basically the treatment we do, we do manual lymphatic drainage techniques going against this backflow, going towards the collarbone. So we go up the spine to the sides of the spine, we go down the neck.
00:59:52
Speaker
using manual, just gentle, soft tissue effinolage techniques. For those who are familiar with manual techniques, effinolage, which is just a stroking motion, emotions, very gentle, and we stretch out the muscles, get the ribs working better, and then work on the spine itself. Sometimes there might be manipulation involved where we open the joints up,
01:00:20
Speaker
which will allow better neurological control of the area and also help the drainage. The cranial techniques we use are gentle pressure techniques on the head using techniques developed by William Garner Sutherland who was a
01:00:41
Speaker
a disciple of Andrew Tader, still the first Osteopath, and Sutherland developed what we now call cranial osteopathy. So it's using techniques that he developed, but non-Osteopaths can learn techniques which are taught by the Upledger Institute, which is an international group of non-Osteopathic cranial technique practitioners based on Sutherland's techniques, but it's using what we call upledger techniques.
01:01:10
Speaker
But basically the pressure techniques are just gentle pressure to the side or the front and back to open up the ventricles, the fluid chambers of the vein and to open these and stimulate the pumping mechanism to drain off the toxin. So it's very gentle. You might not feel much going on at all. I usually do it with my eyes closed and people think I'm always falling asleep.
01:01:40
Speaker
lot of factors to do and you just feel a nice gentle movement. It's a bit like I'm exaggerating but that's the sort of movement we're feeling and it should be a nice rhythmic movement of around eight to twelve beats a minute, seven to twelve beats a minute, should be the healthy rhythm and we're trying to achieve that and with ME patients it's all over the place and sometimes very restricted
01:02:03
Speaker
and we have to just gently guide it to open and close. So it's very, very gentle techniques, but very powerful techniques.
The autonomic nervous system: Balancing health with the Perrin Technique
01:02:11
Speaker
Those are ones which we teach. And there are other techniques on different parts of the muscles that might be helpful. In my new book, I discuss those a bit more. We deal with more advanced techniques for opening and closing the cranial flow by
01:02:33
Speaker
Maybe there's a technique called intraoral technique where we go inside the mouth and open up the palate. Very gentle pressure, but a very strong reaction. We might work more on the abdomen as well. The abdomen is so important, the gastrointestinal system,
01:02:56
Speaker
They call it the gut, the second brain, and there's a reason for that. The gut is so important. With ME, fibromyalgia, and other conditions, there's a lot of gut dysbiosis. There's a lot of leaky gut problems, irritable bowel disorders. There are techniques which we teach in the new book
01:03:17
Speaker
I mentioned about these abdominal techniques to stimulate the fluid motion in the gut and get everything moving properly. Besides cranial practitioners, sometimes they're known as cranial sacral practitioners. Sacrum is a very important part of this. It's the bottom part of the spine.
01:03:42
Speaker
and the fluid goes down to the sacrum and comes back up again. So you can stimulate by holding the sacrum, but you can stimulate the cranial rhythm from the sacrum itself. So we sometimes use that as well. And that's why some practitioners call themselves cranial sacral therapists.
01:04:02
Speaker
So that's basically what we do. We stimulate the fluid drainage using cranial techniques from the vein and spine. We use manual techniques to stimulate the joints and muscles and relax the sympathetic tone, relax everything off.
01:04:18
Speaker
In my new book, I discuss more about the parasympathetic, which is a whole different area, because the autonomic nervous system is made up of two basic sections, the sympathetic and the parasympathetic, especially parasympathetic is the vagus nerve. There's a work by Stephen Porges, who some of your listeners might have heard of,
01:04:38
Speaker
Stephen Paul just wrote a wonderful book called The Polyvagal Theory, and his ideas are that the vagus is made up of two parts, basically, and the dorsal vagus, the dorsal vagus, the back part of the vagus, is a primitive part of the vagus that can get overstimulated and cause all sorts of problems and cause things like sleep apnea.
01:05:04
Speaker
can cause bladder cardio, your heart goes down and this can cause major problems with ME patients, fibromyalgia patients and others. So that comes from the suboccipital area of the head and we've always worked on the suboccipital area but there's techniques which we, especially when you suspect vagus involvement, parasympathetic involvement, we work on the
01:05:29
Speaker
on the suboccipital, and there's a lot of parasympathetic control from the sacrum as well. So working on the suboccipital and the sacrum in many cases is essential to get the parasympathetic working properly as well. We never used to think the parasympathetic was involved in disease until Stephen Paul just came along because
01:05:50
Speaker
It used to always think that sympathetic, if they go wrong, that's the disease process because they overload and they cause all sorts of disruptions. But the power of sympathetic can cause problems as well. We used to think they were just a calming influence. But if they over act and they overcome, it can cause major problems as well. So you need a balance. It's getting the balance right. That's the key. And that's what we do with the treatment. So hopefully that's covered everything.
01:06:20
Speaker
With my new book, I discuss other diseases and other symptoms, and there's a whole list of different symptoms that people have. With ME, I discuss how that fits into the new and emphatic model. And I also discuss, I have an A to Z, I said A to Z of symptoms, but we also have question and answer sessions, which are fairly often, usually asked questions. I have a whole section of question and answers at the end of the book.
01:06:50
Speaker
so that most people, it will take the mystery of ME and fibromyalgia away once the vet is put, they'll understand it fully and will be able to help themselves or their patients.
01:07:06
Speaker
So that's the point of the new book. So that book is probably, if someone has any chronic fatigue, they'll probably be very interested in reading it. It's also for practitioners, and you said you will also have a more concise book for patient-centered book, correct? Yeah, yeah. We're working on this, not out yet, but the publishers are working on this, and it should be out soon as a handbook.
01:07:36
Speaker
of four patients. So if they find a 500 page book with everything in it too much, they'll have a very small handbook, roughly smaller than this. This is my first book, but it will just have the basics in there. There's a lot of people out there who have read my first book.
01:07:57
Speaker
I think the first book solved over 12,000 copies. But hopefully this one will be read by a lot more practitioners who want to know more about ME, fibromyalgia, or indeed just the lymphatic system of the brain and the spinal cord. They can learn much more from reading this book very simply than trawling through
01:08:25
Speaker
many scientific texts, which is what I've done for the last 30 years. So it's based on all the science that we know of, rather than we just hypothesize. Of course. I'm actually really looking forward to it. I have it on pre-order. I would love to dig into it a bit more. Can you also, just one final question before we kind of wrap up, Ray, can you tell, in case there's practitioners listening, can you tell us about if someone wants to study the parent method, how would they
01:08:54
Speaker
Yeah. Well, this is the thing. My goal for years is to teach my methods around the world and we're doing it bit by bit, but there's a long way to go.
Expanding the Perrin Technique globally: Education and resources
01:09:06
Speaker
Every day virtually we get emails from practitioners around the world saying, what can we do about it? And it's difficult. But there is a solution that we're working on and trying to get everywhere. I'm trying to go to
01:09:23
Speaker
teach obviously with the pandemic it's been travels being curtailed but any patient who has got a condition that they feel can be helped by a parent technique if you can get a practitioner involved they can
01:09:38
Speaker
get the book and learn it. They want to learn it from myself, learn the techniques and go much more. We can do a Zoom, we can do Zoom consultations with the patient and with the practitioner. And I don't know, Christian's going to give out the details of contact details to get in touch with our clinic. But this can actually be, we can do this everywhere in the world. And next Sunday, I'm on a Zoom
01:10:07
Speaker
call with a patient in Seoul in South Korea. So we can do it and if you get an osteopath or physio or chiropractor or manual therapist who knows cranial techniques and has got a good founding knowledge of manual techniques, they will be able to teach them what to do on yourself if you are a patient and they'll be able to
01:10:37
Speaker
take on the treatment and hopefully help you. And hopefully in the future when travel is back to normal I'll be able to continue my quest in training up practitioners all over the world and in the future I'll be training up
01:10:53
Speaker
advanced practitioners who have been using my techniques for a good few years and I want to go further and start teaching it themselves. So there will be a group of new practitioners in the next few years who will be trained up by myself to teach around the world and hopefully every country will have a masterclass and advanced practitioners to help teach the techniques in your country, in your neck of the woods. So that's the plan.
01:11:23
Speaker
So hopefully, hopefully, Manchester University are not wrong and I've got a few thousand years to go to teach all this. It's amazing, Ray. I wish you the best with it. You're doing some amazing work and... Thank you very much, Christian. Really, again, really looking forward to getting a copy of the book and digging into it. I was saying that I could send you, but I haven't got any... I've only got the one I've got here.
01:11:50
Speaker
and a few we had, or people who contributed to the book, but the publication date is 11th of March and it'll be available from all good book outlets and Amazon and all the other book shops and online.
01:12:09
Speaker
major booksellers around the world, so hopefully, yeah, you'll be able to go. I actually, I love supporting all my guests' work, so I've already got the Kindle pre-order, but I've actually tried to get the paperback. I have a few large books like that on anatomy, physiology, et cetera, et cetera, so it's going to be there
01:12:28
Speaker
to further expand my library. There was one final question. I want to be respectful of your time, of course, Ray, but just one final question. So we just recently moved house and I finally got around to buying some boards about an inch and a fifth in height. And I raised the head of our bed about an inch and a fifth. Do you think that's just hype? You know, a lot of people talk about that's good for
01:12:59
Speaker
What would you say? The research has shown that lying on your side is good for the glymphatic drainage. Which side? There's always a question mark. People say lying on the left side is better for your heart and better for any gastric reflux to reduce that. So possibly left side is better. But if you lie on your side, that definitely helps the lymphatic system.
01:13:24
Speaker
the glymphitis is good it's helping the drainage of the spine as well and I will say to people if you're lying aside with a cushion between your knees it's good lying with your head upright will
01:13:35
Speaker
The juice will help the drainage from the brain and is sometimes important. Whether it should be done for everybody, I don't know. The research is enough to show. It's definitely a good thing. It's not a bad thing. It's better than having your head tilting the wrong way. You don't want to lie with the drainage going up to your head.
01:14:04
Speaker
But I think it also helps people with pressure change problems. And a lot of ME patients have postural hypertension, orthostatic control. So when they come up from lying, they'll feel dizzy for a while before they can get up. And that's because the blood pressure changes. So having your head tilted slightly up reduces that. It helps
01:14:29
Speaker
maintain the blood pressure a bit higher by having your head up. So there's arguments for doing that. I thought when you mentioned about the boards, you're going to talk about my son who's just about to qualify as a joiner and carpenter. So I could get in to start making lots of these boards and go the parent board. So I thought it was a big plug for Max. If any of you need a new joiner or carpenter,
01:14:58
Speaker
especially in the Manchester area, if you're listening to this, we have a new joining family. I'll have all your links to the book and your website in the show notes and the website, but please tell the listeners where they can find you. If you have social media, anything, please plug anything you'd like to plug. Yeah. Well, it's, I mean, the basic, yeah, there's a, if you look at www the parent technique.com is our website.
01:15:28
Speaker
And it has a map of all the local practitioners. Unfortunately, we haven't got many around the world. There are some, but not many. But again, I'm willing to come out in the future and train workshops and train groups of practitioners to become licensed practitioners. Any osteopaths, physios, physical therapists, manual therapists, chiropractors, anybody
01:15:53
Speaker
or doctors in manual therapy who want to learn the techniques and become licensed practitioners, I'm willing to go anywhere in the world to train once travel starts again. I've had my first vaccine and
01:16:09
Speaker
That's a whole other subject about vaccines. But the one thing we're going to get out of this problem is by the world getting this herd immunity. And that's the only way we can see forward is by most of us having the vaccine. So I'm very much for that. And I will be hopefully traveling by the summer. I'll be out and about again.
01:16:38
Speaker
Hopefully, I'll be able to train up practitioners wherever I'll come. It's my mission in life to train up good practitioners to help local patients and sufferers. Unfortunately, there's millions of sufferers with ME and CFS at the moment, over 5 million worldwide, and there'll be many more. I reckon it will double
01:17:00
Speaker
because of the COVID situation, where we know that the drainage, the brain is affected. This is science has shown this, and we'll talk about it in my new book as well. Yeah. So that's, so it's www. Dr. Rayne. Yeah. Sorry, the apparent technique.com. Thank you. Anyway, okay. Right, Christian.
01:17:25
Speaker
Thank you so much, Ray, for your time. Sorry, we're getting a little bit of lag. I apologize. I interrupted you there. Thank you so much for joining us today and keep doing the good work. Thank you very much, Christian, and a pleasure to speak to you anytime. Take care. God bless. Bye-bye for now.