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Business of Machining - Episode 34
173 Plays7 years ago
Statistically, it's incredibly likely to get dark every day; however, there is 0% chance of Saunders holding a focus group. You have a great product to offer the masses but is it enough to be successful? If you haven't considered MINIMAL PRODUCT VIABILITY, you might be in for a surprise. Grimsmo's confidence in his ability to create a product from start to finish leaves him conflicted about sharing his flashy new product. With each success, pressure to achieve the ever-rising bar can be overwhelming. The pursuit of perfection could be costly. Renshape Video Grimsmo shares highlights of "Day with Renishaw." See the FANUC macro book here. Saunders leaves tomorrow for EMO in Hannover, Germany. He's excited but nervous. "I'm not the same person I was when I went to IMTS." "That is cool but it's not cool." How do you simplify processes and is there an easier way? The guys share their tactics. Thumbstud Instagram post Click here to check out Home Shop Machinists podcast with guest speaker, Robin Renzetti. You've still got time! Leave a review on iTunes for the Johns and get a chance to share your voice until the end of September.
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Transcript
Introduction and Catching Up
00:00:00
Speaker
Good morning and welcome to the Business of Machining, episode number 34. My name is John Grimsmough. My name is John Saunders. Good morning buddy. How are you? I'm doing fantastic. So you just came back from a little vacation, a little R&R.
00:00:16
Speaker
I did. It was great. It was actually, it was the first, I think, I think it was the first full week of vacation, not like work stuff travel that I'd taken since I moved back. Great with the family, great with the kids. The weather wasn't perfect, it was a little cooler, but
Deliberate Processes in the Workshop
00:00:37
Speaker
What was awesome was that you know the world went on so that was a kind of a good proof in the pudding and you know we filmed somebody on patreon sort of said hey you haven't been posting a lot lately which fun fact there's a little kind of hidden story behind that but I thought oh you know what I should do a little patreon shop update so I grabbed the GoPro and walked around the shop last night and it's funny because I had no foresight that this would occur but doing that made me realize wow
00:01:04
Speaker
Wow, the things that stood out, we've built these crates for shipping products to anodizing, for reliable process and understanding where to put the go-no-gos, stuff like that. We've got organizing racks now, we've got Kanban cards, we've got our Pearson pallets for the VF2 and for the folks that have asked for VF2 videos.
00:01:24
Speaker
I swear they're coming. If there's one thing I've tried to do, not tried to do a better job of, I'm just making it a priority is to be more deliberate with what we do and how we do it. And some of that stuff means it takes a little bit longer and that's okay because we've got some stuff in the works and it's definitely building up some stress on my end, but I'm looking forward to starting to roll that out soon.
00:01:48
Speaker
Mm-hmm. So I assume you guys have lots of videos in the queue More so than normal because just like I was gone last week for
Upcoming Trade Shows and Travel Plans
00:01:57
Speaker
vacation. I'm going to Germany tomorrow for That big trade show emo emo. I don't know how they say it. Isn't it not not for another week still?
00:02:06
Speaker
I hope not. No, so it's this coming week, 18 to... Yeah. Okay, okay. Because the Canadian one's the week after, the 25 to the 28th. I thought they were on the same week, but... Okay. Let me just check. Otherwise, I've got a week in Hanover, Germany to watch them set up e-mails. Yeah, no, nothing wrong with that, but I think you're right. Yeah.
NYC CNC Website Relaunch
00:02:28
Speaker
So we have a little bit more in the queue, like we made sure to film, actually they're really good Wednesday widgets and stuff, but we've gone, at this point I don't really, I'm cautious about marketing it yet because I really want to get our feet wet, but we're focusing on re-rolling out our NYC CNC website, not the YouTube channel, but a website focused on learning content and trying to get full workflows of everything from
00:02:56
Speaker
CAD and CAM to operate machines to what I call manufacturing entrepreneurship, you know, operating a machine shop, that kind of content. That's a huge project in and of itself. And I totally understand the hesitancy to talk about it too much until it's like good, you know, like releasable.
00:03:20
Speaker
But we did an interview for that site for one of the articles on getting started with your business. And we talked about minimum product viability, minimum viable
Product Development and Risk Management
00:03:32
Speaker
product. And it's funny because I think you and I probably don't adhere to this very well. Like you didn't do
00:03:40
Speaker
you didn't do forward-looking market research with the Norseman or the Rask or even the spinners or the tops. Now you knew that you are familiar with the existing market but because of the equipment we have and the skill sets and what we believe to be an opportunity, we just kind of do it and most of the time it actually works pretty well. I certainly have had some failures on my end but those failures are pretty cheap so you kind of move on but that's not
00:04:05
Speaker
It's not that that's a bad approach. I think there's some shortcomings to it and it's not the right approach for everybody. So my point is, it's not good to keep stuff internal for too long because you need to show it to the world. You need to get feedback. You need to see if people actually want
Feedback and Design Improvement
00:04:19
Speaker
it. Yes. Otherwise, you could put thousands of hours of work in and tons of money and nobody cares. Right. Have you ever incorporated? Go ahead. Incorporate what?
00:04:33
Speaker
Not like user feedback or requests, but has somebody ever said to you, oh my gosh, why don't you change the pocket clip chamfer to this? And you're like, oh my gosh, that's a brilliant idea. I will do that. Yeah, it happens for sure. Absolutely. People do offhand mention ideas and I do track them and I write them down. And if I can, I like to
00:04:54
Speaker
reference that person that they helped figure this out. But absolutely, everything can be changed. Everything can be made better. Everything can be upgraded. So I'm as open-minded as I can be to anything. But I was going to say,
00:05:10
Speaker
I was realizing this morning on the drive into the shop is that something in my mind has turned around from my roots from how I started this, making the Norseman, where I document every step of the way and I get user feedback and the YouTube videos and the comments and all that, every step of the way, as opposed to now I feel like, I don't know why, but my nature is
00:05:33
Speaker
i'm the expert and i just want to make it perfect and then release it to the world but i know that that's wrong you know what i mean no it's funny you say that because did you uh happen to hear about listen to the uh i think it's called the home shop machinist podcast and they interviewed robin ranzetti
00:05:52
Speaker
We'll put a link to it in the podcast description because Robin Ranzetti was at the open house this year. He's a phenomenal tool maker. He does work regularly down. He has built, in his words, I think hundreds if not thousands of spindles with bearings and grinds. And he's the kind of guy who understands in his home shop how to set up a part in his hardy and HLV and turn 50 millions off of it and do it reliably with confidence based on everything.
00:06:20
Speaker
you know, the chuck, the material, the collet, the modified tool post on his heart. I mean, what an awesome guy. And he talked very candidly and maybe his candor is what made me like him even more. And I'm paraphrasing and everybody should go listen to the podcast because it was excellent. But he basically said that when he started hopping online, he's
Influence of Robin Ranzetti's Interview
00:06:41
Speaker
Work for years. He's newer to the online side of things He first kind of had the practical machinist attitude towards people like you and me. I'm actually your name comes up in the podcast Telling people why they're wrong and I you know He's the expert and this is atrocious and don't do this and so forth and he sort of realized wait a minute here None of us were born with this, you know We all learn it and frankly most people learn from other people more so than learning from locking themselves in a room and going through crazy amounts of testing Yes, totally
00:07:08
Speaker
So he basically had this Eureka moment where he was like, maybe I'll just be a nice guy and, you know, a little bit more open minded. And I hope I've never, I hope I, I don't think I've become good enough to become that expert or guy, but I know what you mean. And it was kind of a good reset to say, let's go back to the beginning. Like people, I had somebody reach out to us who didn't know how to put an ER collet tool together because it's not obvious that you snap the collet into the nut when you're getting started. Yeah. And I don't want to come across sounding like,
00:07:38
Speaker
I'm the know-it-all expert, but I feel like I have a level of knowledge that I can create a product start to finish and release it. I don't need the feedback to feel like I know what I'm doing, or as I did when I started making the knives because I was totally learning.
Flashlight Project Collaboration
00:07:56
Speaker
I mean, like, I'm developing a flashlight now, which is something I've wanted to do for years. And you don't even know about it till now. OK. And funny quick story that I, when I first started into knives six or seven years ago, I had a fork in the road. Do I do knives or do I do flashlights? Oh. And so I'm finally coming back to the flashlights. And one of our podcast listeners, actually,
00:08:22
Speaker
is helping me with the electronics with it. He emailed me about a month ago. Dude, awesome. Yeah, he really, really knows his stuff. So we've been going back and forth for the past month or so and just understanding the electronics behind it, which have been my stumbling block. So anyway, this has been one of my side projects that I'm like, I could easily make this public and do flashlight Fridays or something like that and document the entire journey.
00:08:50
Speaker
but I haven't yet and I'm hesitating and I just want to make it my way and make it perfect. But then nobody's, you know, nobody knows about it. That's not what it's about. I know. Right. And I want people to be part of the journey and I want people to be excited for it when it does get released.
00:09:06
Speaker
Well, one of the things I will say to you because I want you to say to me is just because don't don't not document it just because you're scared of criticism because the bar is set higher for us now. It's it is awkward. It's good. Just because we we.
00:09:22
Speaker
bought bigger machines and we've done this more often it doesn't mean I'm just as capable of making mistakes and it's tougher like actually this week's Wednesday widget was making this casting part and it moved on us in a fixture and I tell you I still wanted to I wanted to delete that video and like just skip the other Wednesday widget I was like you know what no that's not what it's about I consciously did this I thought it might be a mistake I didn't gauge that risk appropriately
00:09:46
Speaker
and I am getting a little, I ignore a lot of the internet chatter, which kind of bothers me these days. I wish I had a, I want to have a great relationship with people, and I know that for every troll there's 500 people who love what we do, so don't get me wrong, I don't lose any sleep at night, but I also like interacting with those people, and I don't know that that problem will ever go away, but you should share it, John, you should.
Sharing Projects for Better Feedback
00:10:09
Speaker
Yeah, I should. I think maybe part of it is, just like you said, it's the fear of
00:10:14
Speaker
not only the negative interaction, but just more interaction. Like I've been ignoring YouTube for quite a long time now. I don't even read the comments anymore. It's just like I'm focusing on Instagram and I haven't put up any videos in forever. And that's just like a whole nother world that I've, I want to move back into, but I know it's going to take a lot of my time and a lot of my
00:10:33
Speaker
effort and stuff. But the amount of feedback that I can get as I develop the flashlight, I'm like, I think I'm going to do it like this. And then I get 15 comments going, actually, it's better to do it like this. And I'm like, oh, I didn't even know. I need that to develop faster. That's how you create a better product that the consumers want.
00:10:49
Speaker
faster. Right. And look, we're in it for the journey, not the destination. I hate to say it, but once the Norseman is a beautiful product, but it's what goes into it that's fascinating to me more so than the Outlet. Yes, totally. I would actually love to have owned one of your flashlights. I do carry a much more expensive flashlight than I do a knife every day.
00:11:11
Speaker
So I would I don't know what that sure sure fire. Yeah, it's the sure fire backup e1b or something But I mean jeez this thing was like a hundred and or 220 bucks, but nice Wow as my friend puts it Statistically, it's incredibly likely to get dark every day. Oh That's a good quote
00:11:31
Speaker
No, it's actually, I started carrying it, you know what, maybe do it. I was at a trade show a year ago and we got separated, not just a group of guys, so it doesn't, it's not like I had my kids with me. And I was looking around and I was like, oh well, we'll just, I'll go hang out for a while. And he saw me and he flashed his light and it worked perfectly. And I've carried it for a year since then and it's super helpful. Yeah, yeah, I carry a flashlight every day for years, seven years or so. Love it.
00:11:58
Speaker
Awesome. But yeah, it is cool. Think about your ability to go from start to finish and roll that product out. You've got the resources, the know-how. That is awesome. That's a story in and of itself that needs to be shared.
00:12:14
Speaker
And it's like a new direction for our company if it becomes a big thing. It's totally possible for it to become an equal revenue stream to the knives eventually. It kind of goes hand in hand with this idea of like minimum viable product or getting feedback. Sometimes getting feedback I don't like. Like this idea of just talking to people or like a focus group. There's like zero chance I will ever actually hold a focus group because...
00:12:38
Speaker
It just is. But what I do think is really powerful, and I will admit, I have never done it myself. Like I've never actually set it up myself for my own thing. But it's A B testing, where you have a group of, if you have a group of 100 people that are interested, you send 50 people one version of a flyer or promotional, maybe even a different price. And you send the B group a different thing and see what the reaction is
00:13:06
Speaker
If you want to be analytical, I think you have to have 32 people to have statistical significance. I'm drawing back to my stats class in college now. Whether it's the price point, whether it's feature sets, product photography, what gets them engaged? Making sure you actually get feedback from those 100 people.
00:13:26
Speaker
Well, but you're not even asking for feedback. You're asking for an action item, a deposit, a purchase, a subscription. You know what I mean? Talk is cheap. Put your money where your mouth is. True. Good point. I like that. It goes back to my other big belief, which is that a product is priced not based on its cost plus a margin, but rather what the market deems it worth, which sometimes is below the cost, sometimes is more, a lot more.
00:13:55
Speaker
Yeah, it's a perceived value and that could
Machine Accuracy Testing with Renishaw
00:13:58
Speaker
be, like the more videos we do, the more we describe the product, the more we show how we make our knives, the higher the perceived value is because it's shown, you know? Right, right. So we are 16 minutes into conversing and you have not told me about Renishaw.
00:14:16
Speaker
Oh, Renishaw. Yeah, dude, last Friday I had three Renishaw technicians come in. And actually, two techs and one, their marketing guy. Renishaw Canada has never had a marketing guy. So they just hired one like two days before. And my shop was the first machine shop he'd ever stepped into. In his life? Yeah, this marketing guy.
00:14:37
Speaker
Oh my gosh, it's funny. Yeah, so it was awesome. And, you know, like we run things differently here than a big stuff in corporate machine shop. So I had him, he'd pulled the Polestad off a Cat40 tool holder for me and he's like not a wrencher kind of guy. So that was cool. Right. Yeah, so it was really cool to be able to interact with them. So on the Maury, we did a ball bar test, which was really cool for those who don't understand it.
00:15:04
Speaker
It's this distance gauge that you put between the stick to the table and in the spindle, and it goes in a big circle, and it measures how accurate that circle is, basically. It's like your toilet paper roll that goes, it's a telescoping tube. Exactly, yeah. It measures how much the distance of that tube changes, push-pull. Yeah, and it measures to, I don't know what the conversion would be like, but one millionth or 10 millionth or something like that. A tenth of a tenth. Yeah, it less, less, a hundredth of a tenth.
00:15:34
Speaker
something like crazy digits. And so it plots the circle and it's supposed to, you know, in my mind, supposed to be a perfect circle, but it looks like horrible. It's oval and it's wavy and it's all this stuff. And he's like, now I know that looks bad, but your total deviation is like a 10th and a half or something like that on a six inch, around like an eight inch circle. Yeah, like a, I think 12 inch circle, six inch radius. Yeah, right, right. And he's like, this is like as tight as it gets.
00:16:02
Speaker
That's awesome. It was really cool that from the data the Renishaw software can calculate what your feed rate was. We program 80 inches per minute feed rate and from the data it can back calculate it just to display a feed.
00:16:19
Speaker
an IPM number. And it said 80.00. And he's like, I've never seen 80.00. It's always 80.2, 80.1. It's like every single test was 80.00. So the Maury is just like super accurate as far as feed rate anyway. But yeah, the test results were awesome. We tweaked the backlash settings a tiny bit. Actually put them back to factory settings from my tweaked settings. And the factory settings were better than my tweaks.
00:16:47
Speaker
So this is a fan it control backlash override? Yes, backlash compensation. Interesting. Got it. And I played with that a few months ago. And I did my dial test indicator thing. And I tried to get the backlash down. And I tweaked the numbers. But according to the ballbar test, which is golden, the factory values were better than mine.
00:17:06
Speaker
Huh, that's great. And I was going to ask, so this is, obviously if you had problems in your lead screw, like if your lead screw had worn or stretched, and I know you can map them, but this would be the quintessential example where a ball bar test would show that problem. But also, won't it show, it'll show machine tram, because if your machine is casting, it's warped.
00:17:30
Speaker
Right. That tough thing is figuring out if you have a bad ballbar test, what is the problem? Well, it gives you a lot of results. And you can do three tests. You can do a circle, which is this xy. You can do an xz. So it goes up, and then an yz as well. So between the three different tests, and there's probably more if you want.
00:17:53
Speaker
But yeah, my results were fantastic. But you can also do servo tuning if you need to really dial it in. Cool. Which we'll dial in, I don't know, all kinds of stuff.
00:18:05
Speaker
But yeah, so it was a really interesting experiment. We did film a lot of video, which I'm going to have to hire some video editor on Upwork to actually get through some of my stuff. Right, right, right. But yeah, so that worked pretty good. To say if anybody listening owns a Haas, I don't know when they started this, but at least for the last few years, every Haas has a
00:18:28
Speaker
British all ball bar tests done at the factory and then there's the PDF report that they put on your controller so you can actually just go download it off your controller and Look at that test and you can see this like circle thing that John's talking about that looks it looks like you know Yeah, a NASCAR oval even though it's actually incredibly good
00:18:46
Speaker
Right, right. Yeah, the guy was telling me about that. And I'm sure my mori was done at the factory, but the results are not as, like, they don't show the results, you know? It's not just printed out and slapped to the side of the machine. And then the other tech that was in was helping me with the lathe probing macros to tighten up. Because I always felt like the math was wrong. Like, it wasn't offsetting the way it was supposed to. And it would show me one number, but then offset something slightly different.
00:19:15
Speaker
So we had to go through line by line in the macros five layers deep or four layers deep and try to wrap our heads around what exactly was happening and what exactly was doing and we rearranged a couple different lines so we do this first and then that and now it is absolutely solid. Actually there was one thing I had to tweak yesterday myself after he came in.
00:19:38
Speaker
but now it is like ridiculously solid and it'll offset for thermal growth and tool wear every single part. Reject the big ones, it's perfect. Did he, did it take him long to come up to speed with what you were writing and doing? No, he starts going through the, like he knows exactly. He can read this like it's English. Serious? That's amazing.
00:20:01
Speaker
Yeah, so he's reading through it, and he's like, oh, you've got some fancy macros in here. And I'm like, yeah, I'm trying to understand it, trying to figure it out. And he's like, good job. That was going to be my other question. There's like zero chance. It's like when you see somebody who's a professional tennis player or Navy SEAL at the mall, and you're like, you don't look like what I would think that person looks like. You look great this morning, John. But you wouldn't think when this guy walks into a relatively young person's machine shop that they've got this
00:20:29
Speaker
I mean, again, I cannot contemplate that there's a small shop in Ontario that has more awesomely written Renishaw macros than yours, right? It's just insane to me. Yeah.
Learning FANUC Programming
00:20:40
Speaker
And I know some of my Elliott Matsura techs that come in and train me on the lathe are like, nobody understands macros. Nobody really takes the time to learn them and dive in. A few people do, of course. But of all the customers that they service, he's a very small percentage actually utilize this technology.
00:20:58
Speaker
And I've been doing it for a year now that I've had the lathe, and it's eye-opening. I'm going to show you here my giant yellow FANUC macro programming book, Manual Guide Eye, which I realize I haven't even opened, but it's got everything. And for my birthday, I got it. That has macros in it? Yeah.
00:21:20
Speaker
Yeah, this has everything about FANUC, and I'm assuming a huge section on macros. Well, so that's weird, because you've got sort of the Renishaw language. Does Renishaw use the FANUC language? Yes. Are they sort of two separate? OK. Yeah, Renishaw writes their own probing macros, which follows the FANUC guidelines. Got it. OK. And actually, I mean, the Renishaw programs on your haas are FANUC language. Right, right. OK. Macro B is what they call it.
00:21:50
Speaker
there might be a couple of syntaxes that are different, a couple of M codes and G codes that are different on your control, but the language, the architecture, the structure is the same thing. So I mean, more and more over the past year and especially over the past few weeks, I'm understanding this more and I'm grasping it and I know how to use it to my advantage.
00:22:11
Speaker
Dude, that is awesome. It's really cool. I saw the I saw the Instagram post you did of the what was like a Norseman part that you had never made on the on the knock Yeah on the new lathe or I guess not new but the lathe mm-hmm the lathe
Challenges in Lathe Operations
00:22:26
Speaker
Well, that was disgusting. It was like OD threads, it's smaller ID threads on the opposing side. It was all done in one up with the sub spindle. It's insane. Yep, yep. It's the thumb stud on the Norseman. So OD steps that I do with a grooving tool. Oh yeah, sure. And so the outside is kind of hourglass shaped. So when the sub spindle comes in to grab it, there's almost nothing to grab onto because there's just two little peaks. Yeah.
00:22:50
Speaker
So that was tricky, and just getting the diameter, and the length, and the threads, and every dimension kind of perfect. And I got it, and now I've made 300 of them so far, and I'm going to make another 300 before I quit. And it's awesome. OK, so in your Nakamura, your main spindle has a normal-ish 5C column, because you're just feeding in bar stock, right? Yeah. Or a round bar of various diameters, but not that many variances, right? Right, right, yeah.
00:23:19
Speaker
But your sub spindle gets fancy real quick because you've got all these different. It can. OK, so how do you organize your sub spindle tool holding, like 5Cs and so forth? They're almost all 5Cs, or they are all 5Cs, but they're almost all standard sizes. You try to design the turn diameter to be a nominal, like 1 8 7 0 or 1 8 7 5 is 3 16ths. OK. And as long as the sub spindle can squish a certain amount. Sure, sure.
00:23:49
Speaker
And it depends on the part and everything. It can actually mar the part and squish three little clamping ovals into it. But this part is 0.230 diameter, and I'm grabbing it with a 250 call it on the sub. And it works OK. I'd rather have a 230 call it on the sub. But sometimes I'll turn a brass emergency call it to be the exact right diameter.
00:24:14
Speaker
But yeah, for the most part it's just 5C collets and then the sub spindle has an ejector pin, a spring-loaded spit-out pin inside. So when you grab it, it pre-loads and then it clamps and then it'll spit it out at the end.
00:24:28
Speaker
Okay, so I was thinking, the one that I remember is the one that you machined yourself that holds your, I have to forgive me, I don't know what part it is, but it's the shallow, it looks like a penny. So it's like. Yeah, the bearing, the plastic bearings. Okay, right, right. So that's a custom collet. I was thinking if you've got 50 of those or whatever, maybe that's ridiculous, but you now gotta really pay attention to how you store and organize those. Yes. But you're just mostly using nominal collets.
00:24:55
Speaker
For the most part, yeah. And I do try to, sometimes I only want certain ones on the main and certain ones on the sub because the length could be different, the stick-out head length. And because the lathe has to go in and it has to grab without crashing, everything matters. So I'm like engraving on the front of the collet, main spindle for bearings, or sub-spindle for bearings or something like that.
00:25:22
Speaker
I know your main spindle has that fancy royal collet that does not retract in Z when it grabs onto the... Correct, correct. Does your sub have that? Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, they both do. Okay, has to. And do you... Is there such thing as like a plastic 5C collet? There are. I don't have any, but I've thought about it.
00:25:43
Speaker
Or I was even thinking you could take a regular collet or a emergency collet and you could almost put like a 30 thou nylon or Delrin sleeve, like sleeve it, like bushing sleeve it. And that could, I'm just thinking about how you deal with marring.
00:26:00
Speaker
Yeah, and that is an issue for sure. You know, titanium's relatively tough, but it absolutely does mar with a hardened steel collet grabbing onto it. Right, right. Even our hard stainless steel pivots, their 45 Rockwell, they can still scratch and squish.
00:26:18
Speaker
when the sub spindle grabs it. So I can adjust the sub spindle pressure to the clamping pressure. So I'm adjusting that all the time. Usually it's just a tick above zero, like almost nothing. Serious? Yeah, it doesn't need it. That's funny. But that's just a valve. That's not a software setting, right? Exactly. Yeah. It's just a little screw. Right. Right. Huh. That is cool.
00:26:42
Speaker
Well, I'm sorry, it's cool, but it's not cool because this is what I'm trying to think about is the stress that you've got of if you wanna have somebody else, the hurdle it would take for, heck, it would take you a month to teach me, and granted, I hate lades, but yeah, you know, it's almost like, and there's no reason, I'm not becoming all of a sudden overly critical, but there's so much specialized knowledge when it's like, how do you simplify it? How do you make it,
00:27:08
Speaker
the processes and the, how do you make it easier? I'm trying to find a sheet for you. I don't have one but.
00:27:19
Speaker
Set up sheets? Yeah, here's a set up sheet, a process sheet. So every now and then the probe will give this stupid alarm called a Hanbei alarm that you have to manually, you have to unlock the parameters, you have to go in deep into the parameter settings and you have to unlock this binary switch that goes from zero to one. What? And it's like this Nakamura safety thing.
00:27:42
Speaker
I'm showing John right now this full page thing with photographs and descriptions and like 10 steps to unlock this thing so that Eric can unlock it if it ever happens at night when the lathe is running and I'm not here.
00:27:56
Speaker
So I showed this to the Renishaw guys, and they're like, can I have a copy of that? Because it's so good. Right. But yeah, forcing myself to do this taught me how to make a good setup sheet easily. So I'm literally taking my phone, I'm snapping a picture of the screen, and I'm saving that to Google Drive. And then I can go onto my PC or my laptop and go into Google Docs and create a document, drag in these pictures, crop them, put descriptions.
00:28:25
Speaker
I need to do more setup sheets like that. Like when I'm setting up a job, when I'm making spacers, you need to use exactly this call, and exactly this call, and adjust the subpressure to this, and et cetera, et cetera. And then it's relatively easy. I would wholeheartedly commend you on that and endorse doing
Documenting Processes for Efficiency
00:28:44
Speaker
things like that. My suggestion is we have stopped doing that on some things. And in lieu, I just filmed an iPhone video.
00:28:53
Speaker
Yeah. The time it would take for me to take pictures, go in, import them, write language up, which doesn't always have the inflection. So if I do a little video, I can say, hey, put these, put Mighty Bites in here, put Pit Bulls in here, put soft jaws in here. The soft jaws need to be redecked. That's really important. You can hear my voice and it's so much easier. I find that I do a better job
00:29:17
Speaker
because it's easier to convey that information. It's quicker, it's easy to refilm it if you want to. And even if I have to rewatch it, I would rather rewatch a minute or two video of myself than reread my own sheet. I think some of the things that I...
00:29:34
Speaker
have written down are like factual numbers that I might change over time. So having that on a piece of paper or in a document online or something. But I think they're both super valuable and I want to do that, I want to do more videos around here too like the heat treating process. And I might even just make them public. It's our own internal training documentation. But it'd be sweet for it to be public, you know what I mean?
00:30:01
Speaker
Right. Well, but no, but you're going to laugh. I do it for like, uh, the silly things like every year, what is the maintenance I need to do in the shop? I need to, uh, and not the cool machinery. Like I need to drain the furnace or I need to check the water heater or the city's backflow valve. And you just film a little video because at the end of the day, doing that stuff isn't a big deal. It's more than like the hassle and frustration of what do I need to do? And did I forget something and did I need a custom wrench for something and where is that stupid wrench and blah, blah, blah. Yep. Yep.
00:30:32
Speaker
So what are you up to? You said you're leaving for emo soon. Tomorrow. Oh, jeez. You've got today to play. But you know what? It's funny that September is, I would say, a big month for us as well. I know, I mean, gosh, it's like we're not even talking about the rasks anymore, which is awesome.
00:30:53
Speaker
Sorry, that came off totally wrong. No, I didn't get it again. But for me, I'm super excited for emo. I'm actually nervous because when I went to IMTS, I was a very different person. I didn't even own a Haas or a VMC yet.
00:31:11
Speaker
Our world has changed a lot in the past year and I regret, I remember leaving IMTS and thinking, holy cow, I need to do a better job of thinking about what I want to find so that way when I'm there, I'm proactive and not just reactive, not just looking at what's the shiniest thing or the coolest thing. That's fun, but this is a week of my time. I need to go learn. I'm looking at microscopes.
00:31:36
Speaker
Where's my list metrology stuff. I want to look at the whole sort of Even though I've we've got our steel plate process down pretty good I want to look at this sort of combination of Everything from boring bars to taps to drills to guided reamers that kind of high whole high volume high precision whole world a couple of machine type technologies I want to look at I kind of work on my list to be honest with you because I have ideas I know anyway
00:32:04
Speaker
When I get back, it's like no more travel, and that for me is lockdown time. We have spent the last year developing a few products. The little mini pallets that we put in the vise, the Tormach fixture plates, we've got a whole new product that I haven't even mentioned publicly that we're very close to launching. We've got this new website. Actually, not probably. Definitely too much.
00:32:28
Speaker
to have it going on concurrently.
Product Development vs. Marketing
00:32:30
Speaker
However, what we've done is we've spent the last nine months learning at our own pace with no pressure from sales, no pressure from whatever. So that's OK, but now it's time to act. And look, we sell the fixture plates, don't get me wrong, but we don't market them. We've built a product, not a business, not an opportunity. So now it's time to start, whether it's, again, AdWords or marketing or putting video content out around it,
00:32:57
Speaker
I've been lagging on making a video on our DeWalt fixture plate to show the uses and set up and so forth and that. So I'm excited because when I get back from emote, it's kind of my go time. It's the time to start this company. Yeah, exactly. It's a version two. Yeah. And I think we're getting there. I mean, we are not, you know,
00:33:16
Speaker
Jay Pearson you know Kanban and Kaizen or Kaizen is not a completion. It's an ongoing process So we're never I've never gonna say we're done, but we're a lot better with lean now We've got Kanban cards They're working and what's great about that is it is we want to change or roll out new stuff that that whole sort of method is there
00:33:35
Speaker
It transfers to the new product, the whole process, the Kanban cards and everything. You just do it right from the start. Right. If there's one thing I'm trying to wrestle with and get away from, it's this idea of balancing the ability to produce, whether it's knives, flashlights, our products.
00:33:53
Speaker
So that involves fixturing, it involves processes, it inevitably involves some outside vendors, but also not overproduced, to be able to be nimble, to be able to be reactive. So it's kind of tough because it's like, hey, we've made these fixtures, they're great, they're great, but I haven't made a second one because... Yes.
00:34:12
Speaker
I want to get through more of the, you know, and then like. I want to change it and do one thing. Right. Totally. And do you make 300 of your titanium things because the Norseman is set up? I mean, it's a classic manufacturing debate. It's nothing new. The biggest thing I hate is the outside vendors. We've really continued to struggle with some of those relationships. And I don't think there are struggles that are unique to us, but the less I can rely on people
Vendor Frustrations and In-House Processes
00:34:39
Speaker
like that, the better. So to the point of, look, I love what I do. If it's that much stress or problems, and this probably makes it sound like it's a bigger problem than it is, but nevertheless, it's been a source of frustration, quit it. Like literally change the product to where you don't have to do that anymore. Or stop. That's why we bring everything in-house, that we don't have to deal with outside vendors.
00:35:02
Speaker
right yeah anyways that's that's that's what am I up to today well actually we're putting together some speeds and fees recipes so we're right now we're working on 304 stainless a notoriously
00:35:17
Speaker
Easy to machine once you've got a recipe, but it's also easy to break tools very very quickly And that's what I want to do for the new website is is material specific speeds and feeds because I don't You know, I think about a speeds and feeds calculator. I think generally That might get me somewhere, but I don't get too excited. I don't think like oh, that's awesome It's just it's just a starting point. So what I want to do is say
00:35:41
Speaker
In the tormach and in the Haas in this material with this tool. Here's what you should start with and Here's a video of that cut happening right that way if yours is different you can say uh-oh What's wrong? Yeah, you can see the setup you can listen to it Yeah, and you can define certain things like it could be run out. It could be a
00:36:01
Speaker
a crappy tool holder. It could be work holding, absolutely. And maybe even define those things in the video. Here's what happens if you don't tighten your vice tight enough. Things like that, excellent. So that's the plan? What are you up to today?
Innovative Solutions for Case Inserts
00:36:18
Speaker
Today, you know how we make the foam inserts for our Rask cases? We got this wicked green foam and we mill them ourselves. Datron sent us a sweet end mill that does amazing. So I need to apply that to the Norseman because we have like two Norseman foams left that the last guy used to make for us. So I think that I've been putting it off for about a week now and that needs to be my today job, one of many.
00:36:45
Speaker
So that, I got to grind more Norseman blades in the hard state at 60-62 Rockwell. You mean Millburn? I'm in Mill, yeah. Yeah, right, right, right. So I found a sweet, sweet process for that. I'm getting insane tool life, like two or three times, no, probably four or five times longer than I expected of tool life.
00:37:07
Speaker
for this method, so super happy with that. Got a big box of Lakeshore carbide end mills coming in today just to sustain that process. I'm gonna get the lathe making a bunch more thumb studs just so that I don't have to think about them again for a very long time. Oh dude, I...
00:37:25
Speaker
I used Upwork for the first time in two years to hire a programmer to create a custom script to basically pull random names to sell our knives.
The Value of Outsourcing Programming
00:37:37
Speaker
Oh my goodness. So I debated over it the whole weekend. I wrote out the list. Okay, this is what I want. And as I'm writing it, I said to my wife, I'm like, once you write it down, it's actually not as big as you thought it was.
00:37:50
Speaker
It's like six points. I want all these points. Is that it? Yes, that's it. Oh man, I thought this was so complicated in my head. So anyway, I posted a post on Upwork within three hours. I got three replies. And the two guys were like, yeah, maybe they could figure this out. The third guy offered. He's like, this is how I think we should do it. And I'm like, oh my goodness, this guy knows he's already done it in his head.
00:38:14
Speaker
hired things that are complicated to you are not complicated to people that are that do them you just have to find them yes exactly so i found him monday morning the project was done wednesday after this and i don't know custom script yeah i don't want to put you on the spot but i can you share as an inspiring comment to folks that may be thinking about leveraging what i call a force multiplier like yes like upward was the price a problem
00:38:40
Speaker
I had no idea what to charge for it, because what is custom programming cost? So I put a price of $150 on the thing, the two other guys fixed. It was a fixed one time, not hourly, whatever. That's just an arbitrary price. I'm like, yeah, I'd pay $150 for this. So the two guys said yes to the $150, but they didn't define how they would do it. And then the other guy said $218, higher.
00:39:04
Speaker
but to find exactly how he's going to do it. So I accepted, and I happily paid him $2.18. I tipped him some money, and super, duper, super happy with how this worked out.
00:39:17
Speaker
The value there too is not that you have that done, it's that you have, one, the confidence to start tackling Upwork for other things, and two, that guy, I mean I talk about this with entrepreneurship, opportunity, team, and resource. The opportunity is not what I care about, it's the resources and the team.
00:39:34
Speaker
What are the machinery that you own? Who's on your team? That software guy is on your team. Now, if you need something done later, it's like no big deal. And frankly, you're going to get a little bit more confidence about what the right price is to charge. And you could even ask him, hey, is this even possible? Help me brainstorm, not just write code. Freaking awesome. Yeah, so happy with how that turned out. So yeah, like you said, I have a lot more confidence with utilizing Upwork for a multitude of things.
00:40:01
Speaker
So, awesome, just great. What do you think about this?
Starting Simple for Business Success
00:40:05
Speaker
One of the things on the new NYC CNC website is going to be talking about getting started in business and entrepreneurship. I have this belief, partly through my own experience of having initial successes and failures, that I am going to profess to people that it's actually really important that you have
00:40:23
Speaker
a success to start with. And that means start with something that's a little simpler. So don't come to market with this crazy big electromechanical complex, long development, expensive product. Come to market with something that's small, that delivers value, that you can get your feet wet with, that you can go through the full process. You can use Upwork, you can use machines, you can deliver parts and packaging. And you need to make a little bit of money on it, but this is also subsidizing your education.
00:40:49
Speaker
But you need to build up off of that success before you go spend a year hunkered down on something that may fail. And if it's going to fail, you need to be willing to let it fail and not chase it because you're too committed. Absolutely. Because when you're starting out, all you see is the product. All you see is, I want to make this widget. All I want to make is a Norseman knife. And you don't realize how much
00:41:14
Speaker
greater the effort, the responsibility is in running a business, in packaging, in marketing, in dealing with customers, in shipping, in manufacturing and dealing with manufacturers and ordering materials and all this stuff. It's this entire process that you don't see from day one. And yeah, if you had a simpler product, something easier to bring to market.
00:41:35
Speaker
I see that now in my world, guys making spinners or tops or pry bars or key chains or little things that have been able to bring a relatively simple product to market as great as it is.
00:41:51
Speaker
and build a big brand around it. And it's like, they took a shortcut, you know? They took a product development shortcut to be able to focus on the business and it's, you know, they're making a lot more money than I am. And yet I've spent, you know, eight years doing this. I'm not complaining about that. It's just different, like simpler product and you get to focus on the whole thing instead of focusing on a very complicated product and a big business at the same time.
00:42:20
Speaker
There was something you said earlier about hiding your new products until you're ready to release them, in that there is no pressure. You get to do it at your own pace. Maybe that's what I'm secretly really enjoying.
00:42:36
Speaker
about developing a flashlight, because there's no pressure. If I go public with it, there will be pressure. I'll get emails every day. I'll get comments going, oh, I can't wait to buy. I can't wait to buy. Or do this, do that. And right now, it's just in my head. It's just me and the electronics guy working together at our own pace. I kind of have a Christmas deadline in my personal thing, but it doesn't matter. Nobody knows about it. Well, now they do. Give up on that, too, by the way.
00:43:01
Speaker
Yeah. You'll never get it. I mean, just realistically. That means you need to be holding stuff in your hand by like November 15th. Not going to happen. Exactly. Yeah. But I mean, without a deadline, you're just flying in the wind.
00:43:16
Speaker
But aren't you, I'm not saying, I don't think you're necessarily wrong at all, but I would also say you're probably just taking the extreme opposite of the last two years you lived through, which was a very public pressure to fulfill a public thing. And now you're, it's pretty darn nice to kind of do your own thing. Part of me thinks sometimes
00:43:33
Speaker
You know, I love what I do. I wouldn't I wouldn't trade for the world, but there is pressure There's pressure when you meet fans There's pressure when you to put out good videos and sometimes it's like man I just wish I could have a couple of weeks to make parts on my own without talking to people and totally But you know in its yeah, but I love it it's actually cool somebody was at the some Mitsubishi I
00:43:58
Speaker
EDM debut in Chicago yesterday and they texted me there like your name is getting dropped and somebody else coincidentally was like talking about how we were coming up at like West Tech and I'd say that not to inflate my own ego but rather to remind you because you're just as much as part of this story that what we're doing is bigger than either one of us. Like it legitimately is helping generate interest and hopefully success. That's what yeah gets me fired up.
00:44:26
Speaker
I think on that note, yeah. I'm like six or seven hours ahead of you, so maybe we'll do like next Friday in the... Oh, I'll be on the... I'm flying home. I'll email you. I don't know what my schedule is. Yeah, we'll figure it out. We'll do something. If you've got time, hotel room or whatever.
00:44:48
Speaker
Yeah, maybe we'll do it Thursday. Well, let me see what my schedule is. But I'd love to make it happen kind of from there, because it'll be so awesome to talk about what we're seeing. Yeah, absolutely. Sounds good. Good. Crush it, bud. I will, you too. Have a good flight, safe flight, and all that. See you. See you. All right, bye. Bye.