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Harley Quinn S3 E8: Batman Begins Forever (Our 100th Episode!)
719 Plays3 years ago
J Scotty and Zuhair celebrate the 100th episode of the podcast by discussing one of the best episodes of Harley Quinn to date! Harley Quinn Season 3 Episode 8 now streaming on HBO Max!
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Transcript
Introduction and Red Hazel Whiskey Promotion
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to purchase and consume, to be consumed in moderation. Women should not drink alcoholic beverages during pregnancy because of the risk of birth defects. Consumption of alcoholic beverages impairs your ability to drive a car or operate machinery and may cause health problems.
100th Episode Celebration and Harley Quinn Discussion
00:00:31
Speaker
Holy post-traumatic stress disorder, Batman. On another exciting entry of animation deliberation, we celebrate our 100th episode as we discuss Harley Quinn, season three, episode eight. Batman Begins Forever. We'll get right into that after some ads we have no say over whatsoever.
Mississippi Outdoor Adventures Ad
00:00:49
Speaker
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00:01:30
Speaker
Sing along if you know the words. One, two, three, it's time for... Oh, baby, I hear the blues are calling. Toss salad and scrambled eggs. Just kidding. One, two, three, it's time for... Animation, deliberation. A conversation and a celebration of our favorite action animated series. Yeah. Yeah.
00:01:54
Speaker
All
Hosts Catch Up: Recent Shows and Personal Updates
00:01:55
Speaker
right. Welcome back to Animation Deliberation, the podcast where we take action animation and cartoons seriously, but not too seriously. My name is Jay Scottie St. Clair. And I'm Zuhara Lee. What's up, Zuhara? It's been a while. How are you? Doing pretty good. I don't remember the words to that song, but do remember the song to ours. The song to ours? The words to ours.
00:02:15
Speaker
Still can't speak. Hey, no, no, you're good. You're good. Hey, you're speaking well enough to the fact that we've made it 100 episodes. What a milestone. Thanks for being here along for the ride for me and making it worthwhile, my friend. Yeah, we are missing Andrew this week, but it's kind of cooled down the 100th episode. You know, it started with the two of us and we're, we're hitting it with the two of us. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. So before we dive into the
00:02:43
Speaker
what I think is going to be a pretty full episode. I'll just say right off the bat, I'm very excited to discuss this episode. We've kind of gotten into the habit of kibitzing a little bit and talking about what we have going on and what we're watching and all that stuff. So what's been going on in your life?
Anime and Sports Shows with Zuhara
00:02:59
Speaker
What have you been watching? What kind of content do you want to let the listeners know about? What's up with you?
00:03:03
Speaker
So I am one episode away from finishing rising of the shield hero. I don't know why it's like the episode before the last one kind of like wrap things up so I'm like I keep forgetting that there's a last episode and Like I said, I'm watching fire force with my roommate and we've been making a process on that but I can't wait for just feet done cuz
00:03:24
Speaker
Except for one character that's written really poorly that is a damn near perfect anime like it is just so well done from sound design to character to story to pacing to I'm loving every second of it What else what else what else in the sports realm? Hard knocks is wrapping up at the Lions, but welcome to Rexham has been an interesting show okay? Ryan Reynolds and
00:03:50
Speaker
Rob McElhenney is that hey say from always sunny close enough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so they bought a football club in Wales They're trying to build it up. So there's the whole documentary process of that's very fascinating almost done with Sandman and Loving House of Dragons Okay, very
Show Recommendations: Fire Force, Spy Family, Patience FX
00:04:14
Speaker
cool. Where I find that this is why I don't sleep I
00:04:19
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that's all good. As far as Fire Force goes, I know I've watched the first like, I wanna say four or five, maybe six episodes and I liked it. I don't know why exactly I fell off, maybe just content overload, but I'm excited to revisit that one and maybe I'm wondering if I already know which character you're talking about that's poorly written. I have two guesses, but it's still way too early in the series for me to know.
00:04:45
Speaker
how exactly they're written, or how poorly or how well anyway. I can't help but think that it's worth mentioning I did check out the first episode of Spy Family. Is it just Spy Family or Spy Family X? It's like written Spy X Family, but you just say Spy Family.
00:05:05
Speaker
I see. Okay. Yeah. So that, that one's cool. Definitely excited to continue down that one when I have a little more time and then eventually we can discuss it on this podcast. But we got excited before it comes back so we can hit it weekly. Yeah. Has it, has it aired its first season in its entirety?
Studio Ghibli Films: Classics and Lesser-knowns
00:05:26
Speaker
Uh, no, only the first half and continuing next month.
00:05:32
Speaker
Ah, I see. Talk over? Yeah. Okay. Well, there's potential. I could probably try to squeeze that in. Also, I watched that on Hulu. Hulu is still kind of my go-to streaming service. I have been watching a few more things on HBO Max, though, but I checked out the Patience FX on Hulu. It's got Steve Carell and Domino Gleason. They dropped two episodes, and I'm already instantly captivated. It looks very, from what I've watched so far, I'm very intrigued.
00:06:00
Speaker
Um, as far as HP. Yeah. Yeah. I highly recommend that if you were interested at all, it's off to a great start. Only thing is, is like, it's like 21, 23 minute episodes where it feels like it should be like 45 minute length episode kind of show, but we'll, we'll see how it progresses. And then, uh, on HBO max, I've kind of been going through a little bit of a marathon with the studio. I always forget if it's Ghibli Ghibli, not Ghibli, right?
00:06:27
Speaker
I say Ghibli, but I don't know if that's really right. Yes, I think Ghibli is correct.
00:06:33
Speaker
Yeah, it's just been a lot of fun to revisit a lot of the classics like My Neighborhood Totoro, Spirited Away, Howl's Moving Castle, but then I've also gone back and like revisited some ones that I never saw before and one that was like all the way back from 1984 that is not technically Studio Ghibli because it existed before Studio Ghibli did, but it was kind of the movie that was touted as being responsible for Studio Ghibli becoming a thing was Nausicaa.
00:06:59
Speaker
of the Valley of the Wind. And that one was really cool. It's like the most sci-fi of all. It's like kind of like Lord of the Rings meets, I don't know, just maybe Gundam or something like that. But it's got a really cool aesthetic and
Young Justice Cancellation Threat
00:07:13
Speaker
a really cool story with a strong female protagonist, which is, you know, very, very much Miyazaki's thing. So definitely recommend checking that one out if you've never seen it and you're an anime fan. Good to know.
00:07:27
Speaker
Indeed, indeed. All right. Well, lest we keep the listeners with baited breath any longer, do we want to step into some of the news that's worth sharing this week? Yeah, we talked about how 100 episodes ago we started the show and we started the show specifically to talk about one specific show known as Young Justice, which unfortunately, due to this discovery acquisition of, I think it's all of Warner Brothers,
00:07:56
Speaker
a lot of this DC content that we've been anticipating is either hit the chopping block or lined up for it and Young Justice once more is at risk of that so the hashtag renew young justice is very active again even if you just have it on loop in the background while you're at work like whatever we can do to support the show to keep it going because
00:08:19
Speaker
the writers do a fantastic job and we've gone through such a journey with these characters, it'd be a shame to lose it at this point. Yes. Um, victim to the chopping block was Batman Kate Crusader, which was supposed to be by JJ Abrams, Matt Reeves, and Bruce Timm. Why they canceled it? Don't know. I don't understand like what the books could have possibly looked like to just not continue a show that you already had going. Yeah. Uh, especially with, you know, people like that at the helm, what
00:08:48
Speaker
I just don't know. But for current news, Harley Quinn has gotten to season four. So I guess DC animation is doing something right that the popularity of that show was raised far enough that we're good to go for the next season before this one's even wrapped up. Okay, so a little bit of a salve for the bad news and some of the fears that we have.
00:09:12
Speaker
But yeah, I'm super excited to get a Harley Quinn season four. I've really been enjoying the show throughout the first two seasons and season three continues to impress. It's been a lot of fun to cover and yeah, I look forward to season four.
00:09:25
Speaker
Good to know that they have the confidence in the show. To backpedal a little bit to Young Justice, in addition to watching that show on HBO Max, the four seasons that are available, as well as participating in the hashtags, Renew Young Justice.
Support Young Justice: HBO Max and Campaigns
00:09:40
Speaker
Listener Juliet Fontaine shared with us that Greg Weissman put out the call to action that if you purchase the digital comic, Young Justice targets
00:09:51
Speaker
That'll help encourage the possibility of the show coming back. And then there's also a petition you can sign. It's at change.org slash P slash Young Justice season five beyond renewal. So if you're as big a fan of Young Justice as we are, please participate in that. Sign that and let them know how much you want that show to come back. Yeah. Whether you like the show or just love us.
00:10:17
Speaker
Fair enough. Fair enough. I'm reading this excerpt from Deadline. DC's Harley Quinn will return to HBO Max. The streamer on Wednesday said it has renewed the adult animated series for a fourth season. It comes out ahead of the season three finale September 15th. The series is also getting a new showrunner, Sarah Peters, who was written on the series since season one and currently serves as consulting producer will take over the role from Justin Hoffman and Patrick Schumacher.
00:10:43
Speaker
who originally developed the project with Dean Laurie. So I didn't realize we only had two episodes left with us. Yeah, it's something Andrew and I were discussing last episode, the fact that season three is a good three episodes shorter than season one or season two. It's like they kind of have a lot of story to wrap up in a short amount of time. And with the announcement of season four, it makes me wonder how many of those threads are gonna get pushed
00:11:11
Speaker
Uh, to a pop to season four possibly. But, uh, yeah, I, I think hearing that the new show runner, I don't remember her name, even though you just said it, uh, the fact that she's been on the show since season one, um, is, is encouraging that she'll probably keep.
00:11:25
Speaker
you know, some of the traditions of the show, but also as a white male, I'm saying this, but the fact that she's, you know, a woman and it's such a strong feminist show, I think it's the right move to have a woman kind of guiding the creative process here.
Harley Quinn Season 3 Analysis: Humor and Meta-commentary
00:11:42
Speaker
And Hailey Cuoco has been such, you know, a driving force of the success of the show. I'm sure she had a hand in selecting the showrunner, at least I have to imagine she did.
00:11:51
Speaker
She's the reason I started watching the show. Yeah, fair enough. Not a bad reason at all. She's great. All right. All right. Well, let's go ahead and get into this episode. I know we have some feedback that we're going to address, but as has become tradition with this show, I will cover the synopsis just to kind of refresh all of our memories and then we can.
00:12:11
Speaker
get into the nitty gritty. So again, this is Harley Quinn season three, episode eight, titled Batman Begins Forever. And here we go. Bruce refuses to tell where Frank is, so the crew asks for Dr. Psycho's help to go inside his mind. There they are unable to find his memories except the one where his parents are murdered when he's a child. Harley interferes with this memory causing Ivy, Psycho, and Clayface to wake up, but Bruce's consciousness holds Harley with him after she helps him escape from Joe Chill.
00:12:38
Speaker
Together, they find the rest of Bruce's memories where Harley discovers how he became Batman and comes to respect his heroism. They also relive a memory of a fight with Joker and Harley's past self before Chill shows up to confront young Bruce. Acting as his therapist, Harley helps young Bruce think of a memory in which he feels safe and transports them to Bruce's last Christmas with his family. Chill turns out to be the adult version of Bruce who blames himself for his parents' death and plans to use Frank's modified powers to revive them.
00:13:05
Speaker
Harley wakes up only to find herself tied up with her crew in the Wayne Manor after the Bat family captured them. She fails to convince Bruce to work through his trauma instead of trying to undo it. And he sets his plan in emotion, reviving the corpses of his parents. And there we have it. This is a fantastic episode. Agreed. Agreed. This is an adult-oriented show with plenty of cuss words, so we'll just go ahead and give the explicit rating on this one. I fucking love this episode. This might be my favorite episode of the series. It was phenomenal.
00:13:34
Speaker
Yeah, it was great because, you know, we love Batman. And I think this actually was just a Batman episode that was from the eyes of Harley. And there was there was just so much in it, just so much going on, because as much as this was a comedy,
00:13:54
Speaker
All the comedy was appropriately put in with storytelling that actually made me feel sad for Bruce and Batman. There's so much stuff that we see in all mediums of Batman where you just want to give the poor guy a hug or just tell him to calm down.
00:14:09
Speaker
we got to see a lot of that very well and then got some good laughs and then like went right back to the fields so like hats off of all the smack that I gave to this show for the last couple of episodes that I talked about it they most definitely redeemed themselves with just how well-rounded this episode was yeah we've said it before but I think this episode
00:14:32
Speaker
more than any in the series really felt like a love letter to not only like DC fans but Batman fans specifically the ones that have been there through the highs and lows through the bat nipples through the shark repellent spray to all the times that we've seen the Wayans get murdered like this was just
00:14:50
Speaker
a poignant, but again, funny, and tongue-in-cheek episode with some real heart. So I thoroughly enjoyed it, as
Listener Feedback: John Irons on Harley Quinn
00:15:00
Speaker
did one of our stalwart listeners who decided to chime in. Yeah, so John Irons wrote in once more. I know I usually write long, drawn-out emails to you guys, but holy crap,
00:15:15
Speaker
From Frasier to 90s Batman, to movie memory flashbacks, to Harley as Robin confronts Harley, to the suspense of her learning his secret, to actually feeling how much Ivy and Harley love each other, to a believable path for Harley to turn hero, to the shockingly legit therapy session, which actually brought a tear to my eye, to managing to be funny throughout. Dude, I like this show and all, but this episode deserves a frickin' M&E.
00:15:46
Speaker
Hands down, the best they've ever done. Till next time, guys, tell Joe Kool has said what's up. John, if all supervillains have podcasts, are all podcasts for supervillains, irons. Nice. I think there's an argument to be made. I think you have to have a certain... I'll speak for myself, but I think there's just the tiniest bit of narcissism involved with liking the sound of your own voice enough to at least get involved with a podcast anyway. There might be the supervillainy there.
00:16:16
Speaker
What was the ad, the, the Luther tights. Oh yeah. Oh man. I forgot what it was called now. Uh, it was like Lex flex or something like that. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And lost it when he said that had his hair come back and everything about this program that lets you express yourself. Yes. Yes. Yep. Poor Bain typing in as rain.
00:16:41
Speaker
wanting to know if he should unleash his fury or just buy another pasta maker and Dr. Psychos, I have the perfect answer for that right after some ads. I know that feeling all too well. He has no control over it. Exactly. You shithead, that was a perfect ad read. Yeah, I really love the
00:17:03
Speaker
It's always funny ever since I've gotten involved with podcasting anytime like a show actively makes fun of podcasters or podcasting. It's just that extra little flavor. Yeah. I definitely felt attacked in that moment. Even though we haven't done ad reads yet, but we'll get there. Yeah. And I love that it was called chilling with Dr. Psycho because like Dr. Psycho is anything but chill. Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:30
Speaker
Yeah, he has not, uh, gotten rid of that part of his personality. I was surprised that we saw him. I know we were speculating based off the way the last season ended, how he would come back and in what capacity. So it was interesting the manner that they needed him again. I think it worked really well. Yeah. Yeah. It was nice to have Tony Hale back and hear his voice again. And I think they've done a good job of, uh, you know, trying to incorporate some of those old characters that have kind of come and gone. Cause I think back like, um,
00:18:02
Speaker
Cy Borgman, he only popped up in the one episode so far where he was kind of like the AI for the house right now, or yeah, the house and whatnot. But then even like JB Smoove being Frank, he's kind of been out of the picture for a while. So it's like, they kind of get these high profile comedic actors and whatever their schedules allow, it's just nice that they're still involved in the show in any capacity. Yeah.
00:18:25
Speaker
On that note, it's kind of like a blink and you'll miss it kind of moment, but it seems like King Shark might be taking a leave of absence because he has that moment where he gets chastised for playing video games and he's like, this is how I deal with stress. I'm getting all worked up now. I'm retreating to my kingdom. You see him just kind of carted off. So with what happened last time with his brother, he might have to take full responsibility for the shark kingdom in Atlantis. Yeah, that was really sad.
00:18:54
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I hope Ron Funches will stick around to voice the character because he continues to be one of my favorites. But, you know. Yeah, it looks like with two episodes left and Harley still potentially being an antagonist in some kind of way, they could be like focusing strictly on that and maybe like scoping in a little more to the Harley and Ivy relationship. So.
00:19:16
Speaker
Well, it's kind of an interesting thing and it's appropriate that John wrote in and submitted feedback because I think it was on one of the episodes that you and Andrew covered without me, but I remember John submitted
Batman as an Antagonist? A Debate
00:19:27
Speaker
some feedback. Call them out. Yeah, where he was like, you guys are calling Harley and Ivy the heroes and Batman the villain.
00:19:32
Speaker
I think you could actually make a strong argument like in this episode, that's actually coming to fruition here. As much as we love Batman, as much as Batman is always a hero, I think he made the wrong choice here. Resurrecting his parents was a very selfish decision. I see where it's coming from, but especially with the fallout, Harley offered him therapy and the chance to heal from it, and he chose not to.
00:19:56
Speaker
you know, in combination with his mind self being okay with guns, like, it's kind of like, you're full on villain right now, man. I don't think what we saw
00:20:11
Speaker
is what Bruce experienced because a lot of that was dealing with the subconscious. So I think it was just a manner of like waking him up. Yeah. Because even when Harley was like talking to him about what happened, he was like, Oh, you know everything. I don't think he distinctly remembers it as we saw it. No, no, I think you're right. Yeah. Cause it's like the two versions of him
00:20:37
Speaker
simultaneously represented his subconscious. There was the kid that was still so traumatized, and then there was the adult version of him that's just blaming himself. So yeah, I don't think Bruce Wayne himself out in the real world thinks that his guns are okay. He obviously doesn't, but it's kind of like Inception in a way where these
00:20:57
Speaker
Manifestations of your subconscious can be a little more violent and protective of your inner psyche. Yeah, one of my friends puts it in the best way that Bruce Wayne actually did die in the alley that night. And Batman actually is the moniker while Bruce Wayne is just an alter ego. Yes, yes. I've heard that one before and like the idea that Bruce Wayne is the mask and Batman is who he really is now. Yeah, I've always liked that kind of take on it.
00:21:25
Speaker
When they first hopped into his head and they showed that scene, I liked that it was just done in the background because us as the audience, not knowing like what the episode was going, but us as the audience, like we've seen it.
Wayne Murder Scene: Humor and Audience Fatigue
00:21:36
Speaker
So they just had that stupid conversation about semantics of whatever it was. But then the dialogue of, um,
00:21:45
Speaker
Oh, and we've seen this like a thousand times already. It's like, oh, yeah, that was a shout out to the audience. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Like it got deep and everything that they did in breaking down how it was like just a loop. Like this is all he lives. He lives in this darkness. He lives in this memory. Like all that was really well put, but just those comments about like us seeing it a thousand times was hilarious.
00:22:10
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it was great. The meta humor, I think it was Ivy that had the line like, I can't believe we're being subjected to this Wayne murder like multiple times. It's like that is the audience member speaking. So how many times do we actually have had that happen? I think it was like back in episode two or three when Batman himself was like, the pearl necklace. How many times do we have to see the pearl necklace? It's okay for Bruce Wayne to talk about it, but not in everybody else.
00:22:38
Speaker
Yeah, and then just like the the visual homage to the the bat the 90s Batman animated series like having everything like on dark black paper with the the art deco kind of stylings and It was just really wonderful, but also kind of like this is the Gotham I grew up in it's just darker. Yeah. Yeah a lot of the music like constantly playing over I love that so much. Yeah, such a nice touch Yeah, and it was trippy to like
00:23:05
Speaker
just like having the memory repeated and like the multiple Joe Chills kind of coming in, like forgetting the name of the tactical move, but like coming into like a V formation, like all colliding and his like very creepy disgusting teeth through the mask. It was definitely unsettling. His look was far from appealing, even with that mask on. Yes, and then...
00:23:33
Speaker
Of course they take the opportunity to throw a joke in there like John mentioned with the Joe Cool, Joe Chill, Joe Camel. Yeah. That was the semantics that they got distracted by. Yes, yes, yes. What about the camels that give cigarettes to kids? Yeah, yeah.
00:23:51
Speaker
You got to love Clayface. King Shark opted out because he didn't have, I think he said he ran out of motion sickness medication, so he's just going to watch the bodies, but Clayface is all in. He's like, oh yes, I'll get to interview the reason we're here. Thomas Wayne is telling me, how do you feel on the moments right before your death? My death looks so happy.
00:24:16
Speaker
And when Thomas Wayne died, there was a nice reference to film fans. Orson Welles has this movie. Some people cite it as the greatest movie of all time, but it's Citizen Kane.
00:24:28
Speaker
And he has this object that he refers to the entire time, Rosebud. And spoilers for a movie from like the 1950s, sorry. But yeah, it turns out Rosebud was his sleigh that he had as a child. So you start to hear Thomas Wayne say that. He's like, Rosebud was my sleigh. And Clayface is like, sleigh, what's a sleigh? What is it?
00:24:52
Speaker
I'm glad that hit with somebody because I was very confused what was going on there. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. You're welcome. Yeah. It's kind of a buckshot when it comes to everything that they're trying to do. But yeah, I definitely appreciated that reference there. And that's the goal is that there's like
00:25:09
Speaker
small groups of people that will get those subtle things and it's the things that the writers will chuckle about and just hope that somebody else does too and You know like there's stuff that both of us could have missed there's stuff that you know that I miss that you got that You know, it's just great. I love that
00:25:24
Speaker
That's the intelligent humor that I've been missing, that I feel like every episode hasn't hit quite as well. This nailed it. Okay. Well, on that subject of references that either landed or didn't, so you said the song that I sang at the beginning about the tossed salad and scrambled eggs, did you get that reference? Was that Adams? No.
00:25:48
Speaker
So that was Frasier. Oh, okay. There was, there was a lot of references to Frasier in this episode between Dr. Psycho kind of being a podcaster with his hair slicked back. The opening title sequence with like the city skyline of Gotham with the bat signal and then Harley Quinn kind of in that stylized font and her saying that she learned more from watching Frasier than all of med school. Yeah. Of course, at the end, Dr. Psycho scatting through the credits. That was so great.
00:26:18
Speaker
I've seen Fraser in passing but not enough to understand references. Gotcha. I was curious about that. Outside of that, I guess I have a couple of lines that I thought were particularly noteworthy. Sorry, I just thought of one as you were saying. Yeah, please. After you. What you got?
00:26:39
Speaker
It's like, oh, like the, the millionaire going through a super ninja montage or something like that. What is it? Superman or something like that? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's always the white billionaire that forces Himalayan ninjas to train. Right. Yeah. Which is a great nod to the movie. Yeah. Um, I like the acknowledgement of kind of how far
00:27:05
Speaker
the character of Harley Quinn has come, like everything from seeing her and Joker when they had, you know, Robin tied up and she's like, you know, oh, that accent so heavy with the Brooklyn accent, like get yourself some self-esteem, will you? And then, yeah, when she's talking to young Bruce and he like calls, he said, like, I don't trust clowns or I don't like clowns or something like that, which I can totally relate to, by the way.
00:27:32
Speaker
She says, I'm barely a clown. I'm barely clown themed anymore. I just think I look hot like this. I mean, check out how good these booty shorts make my ass look, right? She's like, Oh yeah, you're eight. Nevermind. And then even later on when she's wearing the Robin suit, she was like, I think there's a little too short. This is basically a thong, right? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, uh, that was a weird, like full circle.
00:27:56
Speaker
Yeah, but that also ties into this argument about whether or not Harley is the hero or if she's still a villain or somewhere in between, because she's like, hey, Batman, why didn't you ever tell me being a hero could be
Harley Quinn's Heroism: Actions and Dialogue
00:28:08
Speaker
so fun? You're supposed to be lame. And he's like, it has its moments. And she's like, you look good in the Robin outfit, Quinn. And that's when she's like, yeah, don't you think the shorts are a little short? This is basically a thong.
00:28:20
Speaker
I'm wondering like, you know, we talk about like, if she's really turned into a hero and all, but I feel like there was some satisfaction in just beating up Joker. Oh, certainly. Yeah. Definitely. As well as herself, I think, you know, that version of herself, that, uh, yeah, that she has so many regrets about. Especially after all the comments in the beginning about her being too codependent and whatnot, like she got to beat up an old version of herself that was earlier criticized. Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:50
Speaker
It's kind of like killing your inner demons or getting to come full circle with that, coming to terms with that past version of yourself. So yeah, pretty cool.
00:29:04
Speaker
Another line that I absolutely loved. It was kind of like during the whole montage of Batman's memories, which were just chock full of references. But as a big fan of Batman Begins, I've been on the record saying it's my favorite Batman movie. I loved when
00:29:21
Speaker
Bruce was doing his little monologue, as a man, I'm flesh and blood. I can be ignored. I can be destroyed. But as a symbol, a really cool, very gritty, super serious symbol, I can be incorruptible. I can be everlasting. That's where she's like, oh, you got such a savior complex. You don't sound like Bruce Wayne. You sound like, oh, you're Batman. She has that moment. Yeah, I absolutely love that moment.
00:29:47
Speaker
Was that from Batman Beyond? Batman Begins. It's after Bruce had his run in with Carmine Falcone and he's really contemplating
00:30:07
Speaker
Creating Batman in the first place. He's having that conversation. Okay, and I knew I had heard that type of dialogue before but I couldn't picture like Which movie was but everything was basically Batman begins references. So I should put the thing on that
00:30:21
Speaker
Yeah, I think a lot of them were Batman Begins, hence the title Batman Begins Forever. But I think the one... Did not know that name until you started the episode with it. Okay, nice, nice. And I love it. That's a great title. Yeah, yeah. Being a big fan of Batman Begins, I feel a little bad that I couldn't distinguish if this one was from Begins or The Dark Knight, but there was also right before that there was the scene with Alfred, like, why do we follow Mr. Wayne?
00:30:50
Speaker
He's like, to pick ourselves back up? He's like, oh, yes, that's what I was going to say. And then, yeah, when he first puts on the Batman outfit and he's got like the pointy ears, he's like, are these ears too pointy, Alfred?
00:31:03
Speaker
Very subtle, but he's got purple gloves, which is a reference to some of his earliest appearance in the original detective comics. It's like DC has done a pretty good job of trying to erase that in continuity and go back and change all those gloves back to blue. But anybody that's a big Batman fan will know that there was a long time that Batman rocked the purple gloves. So it was nice to see that little homage there. He was like, we see you.
00:31:28
Speaker
Yeah. And when he was in that dialogue of talking about his pointy ears, he kept going in and out of his grungy voice. Oh, okay. I didn't even pick up on that. Yeah. It's like he couldn't decide which one he was yet and it kept going like, like it kept going in and out of it. I was like, this is really weird. Nice. Nice.
00:31:51
Speaker
Yeah, and then there was like, kind of when they were just really not even stopping to like examine moments, there was that scene where he was running with a bomb down like a pier. And then there was obviously the penguin scene like in the underground pool.
00:32:09
Speaker
arctic pool area with the penguins with the rockets on their backs, and that's references to two films. I think John mentioned the film homages there, but that was a reference to Batman 66, the film, and then Batman Returns, the sequel, the second of... Why am I blanking on the director's name? Tim Burton. Tim Burton, thank you. Yes, Tim Burton's films, yes.
00:32:34
Speaker
with Michael Keaton. And then another line that was just, you know, not Batman specific, but just to the storied history of, of DC films, especially the DC Extended Universe films. But when Clayface comes to the realization after talking to James Gunn, he's like, we can CGI the mustache in post. Oh, mustache gate. Oh, mustache gate.
00:33:05
Speaker
I guess the less we talk about that, the better. It has a mustache? Like weren't there pictures of Thomas Wayne? Did you not know he had a mustache in a certain period of time? Yeah. He's a city celebrity. Yeah, you think you would know, but maybe he's not as good an actor as he thinks if he's not really researching the role that well. And how does he even explain that to James Gunn? I was wondering that too. Oh, James like clenched my butt cheeks and entered the mind of Bruce Wayne and saw it all.
00:33:36
Speaker
I wondered that as well. And he has to do that as Billy Bob Thornton, mind you. Yeah. Not as Clayface. Oh, no, no, no. Okay. I was trying to remember. Yeah. James Gunn does not know that he's Clayface being Billy Bob Thornton. He does not know that he fired Clayface as like his chair or whatever it was. Okay. Okay. He killed Billy Bob Thornton.
00:34:02
Speaker
Gotcha, okay, that's how it went, okay. Was it the tiger that killed him? Yeah, he was like, is this the bathroom that goes in? Correct, yes. Yep, and Catwoman had brought up like, don't go in there, she's been a bad girl or something like that. Another, not really a quote or anything like that, but just something I noticed and made note of is when we had the Christmas scene, Alfred Stocking is like comically small, and I felt so bad for Alfred.
00:34:32
Speaker
Oh, I didn't pick up on that. Yeah. It's like you are not family, Alfred. Don't get any ideas. You get a small stocking. You are the help. He probably gets socks and he goes talking. Yeah, something like that. Or, you know. A bow tie. Or like, yeah, it's like those worst gifts. It's like when the husband gets the wife like a vacuum cleaner or something like that. They get them like cleaning gloves or something like that, like dish gloves or something. Oh, thank you.
00:35:04
Speaker
Yeah. Last couple of things I've got here. I did appreciate how the very opening of the episode, it kind of faded from black and we hear just Harley going biff, Sam, pow.
Ivy's Powers: Tense Interrogation Scene
00:35:17
Speaker
All the onomatopoeia that's known to the 60s series, she's using those all as threats. That's what I'm going to do to you if you don't tell me where Frank is.
00:35:28
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I started cheering when Ivy went crazy and like the thorns started coming and things got tight and he just smiled. I'm like, that's my Batman. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You think torture is going to work that easily? It's like, you're not going to write that man down. No tails are like, yes. That's right. Yes. I love that. Yeah, that was cool.
00:35:50
Speaker
Nice to see Batman be a badass when we get to see a little bit more of his vulnerable side and some of his weaknesses and failings. What's that?
00:36:00
Speaker
A bat ass. Oh, nice. Well done. Well done. That's a full quote right there. Yeah. And then, you know, it's just worth mentioning John brought it up as well. The fact that the therapy scene kind of brought a tear to his eye. But again, I think this season has done a really good job and the show overall has had its moments of like recognizing that Harley Quinn, Harleen Quinzel is a licensed therapist and she has
00:36:28
Speaker
this background and this training. So for her to really try to get through to Bruce and just again recognize how damaged a person Bruce is until like for someone to take up the mantle of Batman and like be that good at it, be that good at and be that kind of emotionally detached. Like you gotta you gotta have some baggage and you gotta have some issues and to like see her try so hard and like maintain that
00:36:53
Speaker
doctor-patient confidentiality and really care about this wounded kid. It is touching. And again, I feel like Batman made the wrong choice, but they say hurt people, hurt people. So he's definitely hurting. And it's not often that I think people see the immediate results of their bad decision right then and there in terms of zombies emerging from the ground. But it'll be interesting to see where it goes from there.
00:37:21
Speaker
Yeah, she had her awesome dialogue of, I'm sorry if we're getting the actual line, but we don't forget. That's not how we heal. Oh, right. Or we remember to heal. Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember the exact dialogue either. It does coincide. I was watching the episodes back to back, but it coincides when she was talking to herself in the elevator, like the reflection. Yes. Yes. So just more of the therapy stuff coming out, like first it was towards Ivy and then it was towards herself and then it was towards Bruce, like,
00:37:49
Speaker
tapping into that part to whether she still has a villain like to be a better version of herself and to like help the people around her is really nice and then it just made me laugh because in flight attendant there was a lot of like her talking to herself in her head in different versions are like Kaylee Koko oh yeah there was a lot of her like talking herself like what is it with like every role that you get just like you have to be stuck in your head different versions of yourself clearly she's good
00:38:19
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, no doubt. Yeah. That's cool. I'll have to check out Flight Attendant and get some more context for that. Yeah, like there's only two seasons. Like they wrap up the whole story. Oh, okay. Okay. Interesting.
00:38:30
Speaker
I guess the last thing I've got here, we talked about Dr. Psycho's self-help podcast already, but it's worth mentioning that it was kind of a throwaway line, but apparently Killer Croc also has a weepy memoir podcast, Thick Skin, which is absolutely killing Dr. Psycho's podcast and the download numbers. So apparently, King Shark's a big fan and he doesn't want spoilers.
00:38:57
Speaker
Check that one out while you're out there. And regards to relations, the only people threatening us are people who are very specific to one show. Nobody can hit it all like we do. That's right. That's right. You're we're your one stop destination for all things action animation. And don't you forget it. Show us some love episode 100. There was a
00:39:25
Speaker
But never a better time to show us some love. Now's the time. Help us celebrate. Leave us a five-star. Yes, yes. Send us some feedback. Share the show. All of those things. Anyway, anything else you want to say about this one, Zuher? No. I think we got it all. That was a good one. There was a high bar for the last two.
00:39:50
Speaker
Agreed. I have high hopes. I think they'll rise to the expectations and rise to the occasion. We'll see where it goes from here. I'm excited to tackle it when the time comes. Is there anything you would like to let the listeners know that you have going on as far as maybe fantasy draft update things go or any other podcast appearances or any other endeavors?
00:40:14
Speaker
Yeah, we had a fantasy draft update on the Marvel Cinematic Universe podcast. We have our next Patreon Zoom sesh coming up to cover I Am Groot and half of She-Hulk. And then we'll do more of it just so we can have something out every month. So check out all of that.
00:40:34
Speaker
I've been kind of quiet on my on my guessing lately, but I am trying to get something together for Dragon Ball Super superheroes because that was an awesome movie that I need to talk to about. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And we got more interviews coming up. Worst comes to worst, I can probably talk to you about Dragon Ball Super. I may not have the context from
00:40:56
Speaker
the show Dragon Ball Super, but it is worth mentioning as a fan of movies and cinema, which I imagine most people listening to this podcast are. This Saturday, which is September 3rd, is the first national
00:41:14
Speaker
Cinema Day and as I understand all movies in all formats are going to be $3 so I definitely want to make a plus tax but I definitely want to catch Jaws in either 3D or IMAX because that's a movie I love and to be able to see it in that format on the big screen would be awesome.
00:41:32
Speaker
But there's all they're also re-releasing spider-man homecoming with the not homecoming far from not not far from LA home No, we'll get to the whole trilogy Exactly. It's apparently got some additional footage and some additional scenes. So I want to check that out. So yeah Yeah, I definitely encourage everyone to participate in that my understanding is like they're trying to do that as a way to like
00:41:54
Speaker
rejuvenate the theater going experience and kind of kickstart the box office again because last weekend was actually one of the worst weekends of 2022. I did go see a couple of movies that I liked. It was kind of like a double feature brought to us by Idris Elba between The Lion Movie Beast and then his gin movie 3000 Years of Longing. I would recommend both. I liked them a lot.
00:42:18
Speaker
Outside of that, Karen and I finally got caught up on our coverage of what we do in The Shadow Season 4 on Pandavision, so two episodes, well, yeah, three episodes left to go, but the eighth episode has aired, so it's kind of almost hitting the same rhythm as Harley Quinn here, but yeah.
00:42:41
Speaker
give that a listen, if you will. And I think that's going to do it for me. So thanks again for everybody making the show possible and helping us get to 100 episodes. It's been a hell of a ride so far. And I won't, you know, try to future trip too much here, but, you know, if we can get to another hundred episodes, I'll be a happy camper. Thanks for tuning in. That's T double low and I am happy 100 stay well.
00:43:10
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Animation Deliberation Podcast, a proud member of the Strandepanda Network. If you would like to contact us, you can email AnimationDeliberationPodcast at gmail.com or follow us on Twitter at AnimationDelib1. For this and other great shows, you can visit Strandepanda.com or join the great community that is the Strandepanda Chat Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash spchat. Tune in next time and remember, stay well.
00:43:39
Speaker
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00:43:54
Speaker
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