Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Superman (2025)
51 Plays5 months ago
Look up! That's where the real punk rock is. Daryl & Nick are joined by Betsy & Stephanie to talk 2025's Superman, directed by James Gunn - the first big screen entry in the new DCU franchise. There will be spoilers to be had after a warning. No spoiler here: we all loved it. Listen to us talk about why.
- 00:00 Introduction
- 03:18 Non-spoiler discussion begins
- 21:51 Spoiler discussion begins
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Casual Nerdity
00:00:10
Speaker
Casual Nerdity is a podcast celebrating and discussing the pop culture that we love. Movies, TVs, comics, books, games, you name it. Our aim is to talk about the good, what worked, and yeah, sometimes what didn't.
00:00:22
Speaker
All with an eye towards building up, not tearing down. Thanks for joining us.
Experiencing the New Superman Movie
00:01:29
Speaker
Now that's what I'm talking about. So ah group of us went to see the new Superman. We went to see Superman yesterday. the new one directed by James Gunn.
00:01:43
Speaker
And we all wanted to take some time to talk about it. So the pattern that we set down in our Thunderbolts. thunderbolts episode was to intro the non-spoiler and spoiler sections with the teaser and final trailers but the trailers were mostly visual so incredible audio yes so consider this the non-spoiler section already and we'll let you know when we get into spoiler talk um and there'll be a time stamp in the notes
00:02:18
Speaker
But first, let's see who all we've got talking Superman. ah I'm Daryl, and with me is my regular co-host, Nick. Say hi, Nick. hi Hi, Nick.
00:02:30
Speaker
But also, our regular contributor, Warren. Our occasional Clone Watch contributor, Betsy. so nice that you call me a contributor and not just a menace.
00:02:42
Speaker
Well, I mean, that's implied. And... And a voice you hear at the beginning and end of every episode, but who makes her contributing debut here, my amazing wife, Stephanie.
00:02:54
Speaker
hi And our Clone Watch test subject, I mean, co-host Lauren, was going to join us, but was feeling kind of under the weather and put together some notes that we'll cover when we get there.
00:03:11
Speaker
To allow us to speak on their behalf. Yes. So I'm just going to start by saying that between my lukewarm reaction to guns, the Suicide Squad, and Creature Commandos, and having zero interest in Peacemaker...
00:03:33
Speaker
plus the incredibly high note that the CW's Superman and Lois went out on at the end of 2024, I was kind of nervous about which James Gunn we were going to get with this movie.
00:03:46
Speaker
But we got the James Gunn that I hoped we were going to get, not the one that I was worried we were going to get.
Superman Movie World Setting
00:03:53
Speaker
And speaking on as someone that did watch Creature Commandos and his The Suicide Squad,
00:04:03
Speaker
But i I did fairly enjoy both of those, but they are different from this, but in a good way. So we'll we'll jump right in with some of our initial reactions.
00:04:16
Speaker
um you know It's not a secret that we were being dropped into a world where Superman and other superheroes already exist. And I really appreciated that. As a comic book fan, have to be that guy.
00:04:30
Speaker
But what have happened to Krypton? How did Superman get to Earth? Should he or should he not let kids die? Where are the pearls? JK, we all know what happens. just get Well, wrong movie for the pearls.
00:04:49
Speaker
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no origin story, jumping right in, sure, cool, whatever. Can we talk about the goodest boy already? Genuinely, I would die for Crypto, and he deserves all the treats and belly rubs and indestructible tennis balls in the world.
00:05:00
Speaker
I'm pretty sure I made a joke on this later on. Crypto is the best of all the doggos, and he did steal, like, every scene that he was in. And he deserved it. Yes, Crypto was the goodest boy.
00:05:12
Speaker
Yes. a Crypto needs no excuses. He's the best boy. We've all had k Crypto since the first trailer, and if something happened to him, we would all game at everyone and game over ourselves.
00:05:26
Speaker
That's a fact. Nick, this isn't the TikToks or whatever. I think you're allowed to say kill. Yes. Yeah. I'm sorry, go ahead. I'm sorry. um sorry go ahead we demonetize We're monetized? You guys are getting paid? We're monetized.
00:05:43
Speaker
You guys are getting paid? Yes. like We are. what's there it Pinnies per view, yes. ah But no, I just love that Gunn decided to say, like, fuck that whole dog being too silly. I am putting the dog in my movie.
00:05:58
Speaker
Like for too long, Crypto has been ignored and overlooked and now he finally makes his debut appearance on the big screen.
Crypto the Dog's Role
00:06:04
Speaker
And I'm so proud. and And I'm sure we've all heard the story by now that he decided to go with Crypto because...
00:06:12
Speaker
Gunn and his wife rescued a dog. yeah they adopted it They adopted a rescue and who is every bit is as chaotic as Crypto is in this movie.
00:06:23
Speaker
apparently a related Apparently ate his laptop based on his description, and I'm not sure how that's physically possible. Oh, you don't want to know what dogs are capable of eating. There one right next to me who has eaten so many things.
00:06:38
Speaker
But as a fan of... the cartoon about Crypto the Superdog from Cartoon Network, which I liked a lot. I was glad to see him, but also, i really hope they don't make an accurate, accurate accurated problematic version of Comet the Superhorse.
00:06:58
Speaker
Okay, but how dare you mention Crypto the Superdog and put that theme song in my head? We both suffer it. I won't suffer it alone. It's nostalgia for many.
00:07:09
Speaker
I can hear it right now. So do I. But yeah.
Opening Action Scene
00:07:14
Speaker
No, the movie opens with what I think is an awesome choice. Soup's just getting his shit absolutely wrecked.
00:07:20
Speaker
Perfect phrasing there. Thank you. But that does help establish the stakes. Starting with Superman hurt helps ground the man who is often mistaken for a bird or a plane.
00:07:34
Speaker
Oh yeah, it's a great choice because one of the too frequent disingenuous complaints about Superman that you hear is that he's, air quotes, too powerful.
00:07:47
Speaker
And that there are some in the audience who just can't get invested in whether or not he's going to be in any real danger in the story. And in the opening seconds of the movie, we're shown that, yeah, he absolutely can be in trouble.
00:08:04
Speaker
and You do have to worry about this Superman. And that whole scene where he whistles for Crypto and Crypto comes bounding in is jumping all over him like, play, play, play, play. want to play, want to play, I want to play, I want to play, I want to play. Also, why he's clearly spitting out blood.
00:08:24
Speaker
Superman is just like, stop. and ah Take me home. Just stop. And he's spitting out blood and i clearly in pain. And it's like... From what I've seen of dog owners and yeah, that's true. That's true. The facts.
00:08:40
Speaker
Oh yeah. hundred percent. No, the only reason that crypto realizes something is wrong and starts to lick his face is because Superman's not even bothering to pet him. he's He's not bothering to do anything, but just lay there. It's like, but I want to play, but don't you love me?
00:08:54
Speaker
Adopted father? ah
00:09:01
Speaker
uh oh that's spoilers we'll get into that more yeah we' we'll get into spoilers okay but also like just for a sec can I yell about the costuming for a second because hell yes return of the red trunks can we really you from yelling about the costuming no no you cannot you can try but no I mean, some people say that it looks dumb or weird, but like I just genuinely prefer the suit with the trunks.
00:09:28
Speaker
I really like the additional pop of color. I like how it breaks up the silhouette of the suit. I like how it ties the red into more of the full ensemble. I like how it helps draw the eye upward to the logo. like All of it is just perfect. And i think you know just from a pure design standpoint is the best way to create the suit.
00:09:47
Speaker
And I think it perfectly fits into this Superman's characterization.
Superman's Costume and Comic Inspirations
00:09:52
Speaker
And going back to the original, ah ah if you had something to say. Oh, was just going to say, all of that is exactly what I've always thought whenever someone has complained about the quote-unquote underwear.
00:10:06
Speaker
It's like, no, it it breaks up the blob of blue that he would otherwise it be And I presume by this point, all of you have heard what David Coren Sweat's argument to James Gunn for including the trunks was, right?
00:10:25
Speaker
Yeah. No. This is a super powerful alien who can, you like, throw buildings around and all of this, but he doesn't want to be scary to kids.
00:10:39
Speaker
And so he he dresses in a way that looks like yeah a a wrestler, like they would recognize from TV, so that they're not scared of him.
00:10:51
Speaker
Or my other thought with that, too, is it's like, you know, they don't even have to imagine him in his underwear. He's wearing it on the outside. And it goes back to back to the original design where, like, the costume designs were meant to be flamboyant, like these, like, wrestlers, like, ah or people in the circus, things that kids would identify with.
00:11:12
Speaker
Yeah, but also just, like, you know, genuinely from a design standpoint as well, like, speaking as a cosplayer that worked at a now-defunct fabric store, like, The way you want the silhouette to work is you want it to divide the body up into thirds.
00:11:24
Speaker
And when it was just the blob of blue, it didn't really do that. The belt just kind of cut it in half. oh This looks so much better. And behind the scene, James Gunn did approach Zack Snyder. He was like, how do I make it work? And he's like, I didn't know how to make it work. And Zack Snyder worked to make it work because he wanted to make it work. But Zack Snyder didn't know how to make it work. is good It wasn't him...
00:11:49
Speaker
It wasn't Zack Snyder trying to remove that, it's just he didn't know how to make it work. And the thing is, that you don't make it work, just do it. Yeah, we we try to be positive, so of know we're not going to talk about all the things that Zack Snyder couldn't make work.
00:12:04
Speaker
We're being nice when we say that he's also been very positive and very much likes what James Gunn is on. Yes. Now, this movie takes lots of inspirations from some major Superman runs without directly adapting them.
00:12:23
Speaker
ah All-Star Superman, Gunn was very upfront about taking inspiration from that. Birthright, Superman for all seasons, and others.
00:12:35
Speaker
And just what he what they did, though, is when he was writing, he didn't adapt them he did he pulled vibes and story beats here and there which i'm like the chris veriva superman returns like this yeah superman media as a whole he he took what worked and would fit for what he wanted to do and made his superman movie and a lot of it was really deep cuts too oh like incredibly deep cuts his entire staff in his little command center was named after actual characters that might have had one maybe two appearances over the 87 years of superman comics
00:13:24
Speaker
I personally was very excited to see Otis Berg, but we'll get into that later. Yes. And just like name dropping every single member of the planet staff. And I'm like, oh, look, they're all But I did like that, know, he gave Otis a last name of Berg.
00:13:41
Speaker
That was just wonderful. Yes. That tickled me pink. That that was just absolutely wonderful. Mm hmm. um it didn't have to do it but they did and it's like i saw that yeah and i appreciate it and um i am like a complete and total nerd for it what you're a comp complete and total nerd stephanie did you know this i suspected but i didn't have it confirmed until now ah
00:14:14
Speaker
I mean, I was disproportionately happy when Lex called yeah one of his staff there, Otis. I was like, ah, it's Otis. And then when I found out that they gave Otis the last name Berg, I was just... Chef's kiss. so Daryl, get out of my brain. i had the same feeling.
00:14:34
Speaker
Well, I mean, you know it's it's kind of hard not to when when you're the kind of nerds that we are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. that despite Despite the title of the podcast, I don't think there's anything casual about our nerdity.
00:14:49
Speaker
Hey, I like comics a normal amount, too. Yes, we've established what your baseline for a normal amount is in Clone Watch. Mm-hmm. Normal amount. Uh-huh.
Lois and Clark's Relationship Dynamics
00:15:01
Speaker
Uh-huh. There's the tons of omazes, too, like... Every piece of media that Superman from the animated series to casual comics, a deep lore comics to to the old school movies, even some a little bit of like stuff from, from the Snyderverse and stuff like that.
00:15:22
Speaker
It's just, a it's a, it's a love letter to the Superman character. And that's something I like about it too, that there are all these deep cuts, but none of it's like that thing where, you know, you're just pointing at the screen, like,
00:15:33
Speaker
look, it's that! Look, it's that! You know, they're just, like, kind of in the background. They're nice little nods that, like, just fit into everything. Well, I'm sure that you probably noticed every street name that we saw was a Superman creator.
00:15:51
Speaker
Yeah. yeah there even some Even some deep cuts in there. Yeah. So, it it definitely was a love letter, and All of that came through.
00:16:06
Speaker
Every bit of that came through. And for every iteration, i would even say that there were there were nods to... There were definitely nods to Smallville in terms of vibes.
00:16:20
Speaker
Yeah, I caught those. That was fun. I mean, Nicholas Holt said that um he he kind of looked to Michael Rosenbaum's Lex as a starting point.
00:16:32
Speaker
think And it really showed, too. like There was so much that I think like borrowed from that characterization to incorporate like into his version of Lex. I have a lot to talk about Lex, but I think Rosenbaum actually was one of Lex's troopers.
00:16:47
Speaker
he He at least voiced him, yes. I don't know if he was actually in the suit. But he at least
00:16:58
Speaker
But Rosenbaum and Gunn are friends.
00:17:03
Speaker
it In much the same way that Rosenbaum and Fillion are friends. Which means that the Smallville cartoon reboot is not entirely off the table.
00:17:15
Speaker
ah um I mean, Wilming and Rosenbaum want to do it. I know, and I want them to do it. Well, there was a good comic book of it. I did like the comic run of, like, the season 11. Yeah, I liked it.
00:17:32
Speaker
Still, I want the original cast minus a certain someone back for the whole cartoon. I think it'd be fun. What? you know, Chloe died on the way back to her home planet. Yes, yes, that was it. Yeah.
00:17:44
Speaker
ah Any other initial thoughts?
Non-Traditional Structure and Journalist Integrity
00:17:48
Speaker
or Because we we keep treading right up the law up to the line on spoilers. And I want to say this, because the movie has a whole lot going on for it, but it also has a very non-traditional act structure.
00:18:07
Speaker
Well, there's there's a lot going on, but and and this is something that is increasingly rare in movie making these days. Gunn trusted us to give us the information that we needed for this story.
00:18:27
Speaker
And understood that we didn't need him to stop this Superman story to then give us the origins of Guy Gardner and Hawkgirl and Mr. Terrific.
00:18:41
Speaker
and we Or establish Lex Luthor. We are stepping into proper immediate res. Yeah. Yeah, like a lived-in universe.
00:18:52
Speaker
And I think it's also not just that, you know, he's like, oh, I'm sure they know all this by now, like it is with the origin story. It was very much a... Some of them will know it, and if they don't, they'll be able to figure it out and put the pieces together through context clues to get all the information they need. And if they really want to learn more, they can look it up.
00:19:09
Speaker
They can get notes from a classmate. Which is not unique, not just unique to comic book movies, but just movies in general. Yeah, Daryl, I think we were talking about how, you know, like that's true to the comics too, where when you jump into pretty much anything, you're picking up like sometimes in the middle of the run or in the start of like someone specific run, but there's all this like backstory and backlog and back issues that come with that. And they're not going to sit there and exposit on the page. The most you'll get is that little asterisk that says like, see this issue.
00:19:39
Speaker
was going to talk about that too. Sucking my brain, Betty. already talked about this out loud. One thing that they did do was when there did need to be just a smidge of exposition for something, rather than having one of usually rather than having one of the characters involved in the story stop and turn to another one and explain it to them, in the newsroom at the Daily Planet, there were TVs everywhere like there would be in a newsroom.
00:20:13
Speaker
And we saw a newscast. Yeah, like we didn't need someone to be the cabbage head that has everything laid out for them. Like more important scenes in with ah more important officials, they were presented as a in-universe description of characters and programs.
00:20:32
Speaker
You know, it it just it worked really well because the news does that. The news treats you as a cabbage head when they're telling a ah particular story like that so it will be like oh the the justice gang which is financed by technological mogul maxwell lord okay that's what we needed to know on with the story and not only that but it does a lot to kind of communicate tone as well because you can see like shifting attitudes for superman and heroes in general it's not like you know they have to actually go into the details of
00:21:07
Speaker
you know, people talking shit on Shitter or whatever they call it in this universe, or, you know, you have to see people on the street protesting about how Superman bad. They could use that as a medium to just kind of like portray in one instance, not only what's happening, but how that's like impacting the larger world and how people are seeing Superman and heroes. And yeah, considering how much that does,
00:21:32
Speaker
impact the narrative i think we butting up against the edge to our spoiler time we we are moving into spoiler territory so let's just go ahead and give a few seconds for everyone to be acclimated and uh hey betty eyes up here look up
00:22:31
Speaker
but be Before we dive into the actual spoiler talk content, after listening to that, I do just want to say that I love the decision to rearrange the John Williams Superman theme because... It's glorious. it' it will end This is one of those cases where, I mean, John Williams is genius. I don't think...
00:23:02
Speaker
I don't think that we will have any debate about that. He is the composer of all time. John Williams is the man. Yeah. yeah Despite the huge catalog of iconic movie music that he has created, i i will go out on a limb and say that his Superman theme is his best individual piece.
00:23:27
Speaker
And this is coming from a huge, huge Star Wars fan. Yes. There are very, very few pieces of music in contemporary media, 20th to 21st century media, that have become so intrinsically linked to a specific character.
00:23:50
Speaker
And this is one of them. But I will say that I do love how that they pale Maz, but also how they Especially, in I mentioned it in the first trailer, that they... Omaz, like, the Jimi Hendrix... Star Spangled Banner.
00:24:12
Speaker
Star Spangled Banner with the electric guitar and doing an electric guitar version of this theme connecting back to the Proof Justice American way, how...
00:24:27
Speaker
Yeah, too truth truth, justice, and a better tomorrow. Yeah. There it is. Superman. How much that represents Superman. Well, and we didn't know this at the time, back in December, when that teaser trailer dropped, but that electric guitar riff on the William Superman theme plays into a recurring theme in this movie of...
00:24:58
Speaker
What attitude is punk rock? Oh. Yeah. But again, like, even then, still, like, it it all
Punk Rock and Superman's Ethos
00:25:09
Speaker
fits together. Like, honestly, my favorite version of, like, the Star-Spangled Banner is Jimi Hendrix, because it's just a, like, raw, like, like, power behind it.
00:25:22
Speaker
And that fits, like, what Superman is. He is the raw, like, energy. Of like what America should be, what what a good man should be.
00:25:35
Speaker
Power with restraint, power with understanding and care. Yeah, it was just it was just one of those things, though, that as I was sitting here thinking about, I was like, wait a second.
00:25:50
Speaker
There's that constant refrain about, you know, Lois and Clark have that have that one conversation where she calls herself a punk rock kid yeah for um from Baker line. He's like, well, I'm punk rock, too. I like punk rock. She's like, that's all pop music.
00:26:09
Speaker
and And we get to hear that pop music, and that's fucking cool. Yeah, someone who's a bit of a music nerd, like to a surprising degree, despite the fact that I don't play a single instrument or you know sing or anything, I was enjoying that discussion.
00:26:23
Speaker
She even mentioned sellouts, and I was like, okay, she gets it. And a couple of times they rubbing it the same way ah couple of times they keep coming back to that same motif about what is the spirit of punk rock.
00:26:40
Speaker
And he's like, well, you maybe caring for people, caring about other people is the new punk rock. Except, surprise, it was also the old punk rock.
00:26:52
Speaker
Well, yeah, but... Yeah, it's it's that classic meme where it's like the the astronauts and they're looking at the earth it's like, wait, it's punk rock? It's always been punk rock.
Integration with DC Universe
00:27:04
Speaker
But we we start off the movie... with some opening text on the screen that's telling us that metahumans have been around and known about for about 300 years, ushering in a time of gods and monsters, which is what Gunn has called, using Marvel terms, phase one of this new DCU.
00:27:29
Speaker
So something is definitely brewing here. But it's also a reference to like the the classic ah Universal movie, Bride of Frankenstein, where they said, like, ussering in a new age of gods and monsters.
00:27:49
Speaker
And they even used that in their failed marketing to create the dark universe. ah And something, too, that I that i really liked about It's what, four five sentences that are shown individually.
00:28:06
Speaker
But right from the outset, you get an idea that there's nothing accidental about how this movie that you're about to watch, how this next two hours has been constructed.
00:28:21
Speaker
Because there is there is a definite structure. 300 years ago, metahumans became known. 30 years ago, Superman's rocket landed on Earth.
00:28:37
Speaker
Three years years ago, he came forward as Superman. Three hours ago, he started fighting the Hammer of Baravia. Three minutes ago, he'd lost his first fight.
00:28:51
Speaker
Yep. I mean, it is the match number, is it not? Well, there is a ton of like different like interpretations as you go of like with nines and eights and like there's tons of like different like like will it like different like uh philosophies and ideas of numbers that you could look into like now before someone says that three is half of six yeah well and i just if we want to be wouldn't figured that out if we want to be really really nerdy about it is there gonna be know once all of the pieces are on the board
00:29:29
Speaker
Is there going to be a significance to what DC for years has been calling the Trinity?
00:29:37
Speaker
No, that makes no sense. None whatsoever.
00:29:44
Speaker
I mean, you know, we we have a Superman project kicking off the live action. We have a Batman project announced with the brave and the bold.
00:29:55
Speaker
like yeah we have it We have a Wonder Woman adjacent project with, what is it, Paradise Lost? The Amazon sauce movie?
00:30:07
Speaker
so it's It's either a movie or a miniseries. We're not sure yet. so those things We're going to be getting those pieces on the board sooner rather than later. Amazon's are already on the board because of Creature Commandos.
00:30:24
Speaker
Right. Well, the question is, when when does Creature Commandos take place in relation to this movie? That's good point. It's before this.
00:30:36
Speaker
But how? are Like, when before this? How? We're going to find that out in Peacemaker Season 2. Exactly, see?
00:30:46
Speaker
We're still finding out info. But either way, like, they haven't confirmed a Wonder Woman project yet. Yet, being the operative word. Well,
00:30:56
Speaker
Or they say Wonder Woman yet. But there's a Batman, there's a Superman, they' they're working to a Wonder Woman. I mean, it wouldn't be surprising if she plays a part in Paradise Lost.
00:31:14
Speaker
ah what It wouldn't be surprising at all. I'm just saying that hasn't been confirmed yet. That could even be a stealth Wonder Woman movie. Honestly, probably. That's where I would put by a my my opinion on, yeah.
00:31:33
Speaker
But yeah, we we have that kickoff of the Gods and Monsters phase. I think you had something that you wanted to mention about that, Nick? Yeah. ah Starting officially, this isn't the start of the new DCU.
00:31:50
Speaker
This is actually ah part of it. Yeah. The actual start is the animated series Creature Commandos, but also draws influences from James Gunn's The Suicide Squad movie and his Peacemaker series Season 1, which are using leftovers, kind of, from the previous continuities and is going to be more explained in Season 2, coming later this year.
00:32:23
Speaker
To clarify and figure out parts of this larger story. But overall, it's meant to be like we are we are jumping into a wider world of characters and understanding.
00:32:41
Speaker
like Nick, would you say that we're taking our first steps into a larger world? a i see what you did there. I wasn't being subtle about it. Oh, no, that's good.
00:32:52
Speaker
so Yeah, but I can't actually make finger guns at you over the internet when you can't see me. But I can feel the finger guns. Good, I'm glad. Because they were very much in the light. But truly, we are stepping into a story and a universe in Medias Res where things have been happening and a Superman isn't so weird, nor are other characters that we experience with.
00:33:21
Speaker
And we're supposed to just accept that because we are stepping into an established world. So something that stood out to me right away was just this background framing device that kind of more or less kicked the events of the movie off.
00:33:34
Speaker
That was Superman intervening in a conflict between two foreign countries. Like I know we've seen it before in plenty of other media, Superman media specifically, but I think the way they set it up just like really establishes who this Clark Kent is as a character.
00:33:49
Speaker
Like, there's a scene where, you know, he agrees to be interviewed by Lois, and she actually, you know, full-on interviews him as Lois Lane, the reporter. Like, she's grilling him about his actions, like, what his thought process was, did he ask before intervening, did he even for, like, one second think about the potential...
00:34:05
Speaker
international consequences of his actions and the answer to all of these questions is no not because he thought he had a right to act unilaterally or that he like
Lois Lane's Interview with Superman
00:34:14
Speaker
knew better than the government or whatever else like he genuinely just did not even consider any of those things before acting because not one of them like ever occurred to him you can see in his expression that lowes's interview is the first time he even had to think about those and it was only with her prompting that those popped into his head in the first place Because instead he just responds with the most Clark Kent answer possible.
00:34:35
Speaker
People were dying. Like to him, the only thing that mattered was the only things that matter were the innocent people were in danger of being slaughtered and that he had the ability to keep them safe.
00:34:46
Speaker
I think that speaks a lot to just the kind of Superman gun wants to create, but even more so, I think it really encapsulates just the ethos of who Superman is, especially given that in this movie, it only takes place like three years into his superhero wing.
00:35:00
Speaker
Like, this Clark is an act to do the most good now, considered possible, fallout never, because he cares about people. He feels like he has a duty to protect them because of the powers that he was given. I mean, not to mention that, you know, he as Clark was accepted and cared for and loved despite his extraterrestrial origins.
00:35:16
Speaker
So maybe part of him feels like he owes it to humanity too? I don't know. And also, like, this conflict is the first time he's had to actually reckon with and consider the idea that his actions can have long-term consequences.
00:35:28
Speaker
Because it's the first time he's actually been forced to consider those things. Like, I think maybe that'll put into perspective for him that the world is bigger than what's right in front of him. And while, you know, he should obviously continue to do the right thing, he still needs to prepare himself for what might come after. And, you know, also something, something, allegory, something, something, look outside, a something, something, river, sea, stuff I can't say in this podcast.
00:35:51
Speaker
sleep there Thank you very much, Betsy. And I do have, though not in the notes, i do have a similarly yeah long discussion, but I agree with everything you said.
00:36:06
Speaker
First, this is probably my one of my favorite Lois Lane's, and that he is a journalist. I feel that we've lost the understanding of journalists.
00:36:20
Speaker
In both fiction and possibly real life. We won't get into that. Well, and I loved when they start the interview.
00:36:33
Speaker
even so This is a another just wonderful piece of the writing here. Clark calls that out. He's like, okay, let's go, Cronkite. Yes.
00:36:44
Speaker
Walter Cronkite is like two generations ago. yep it is But he is still like the bastion of professional and journalism with integrity and truth.
00:37:00
Speaker
yeah He didn't say, ok let's go Stephanopoulos or let's go. With the fact that even in the old ah Superman films of the past, actual professional ah and journalists were like visiting the Daily Planet as like fun cameos, but also proving that this is a professional journalism.
00:37:24
Speaker
But just with with that one word that establishes on even a subconscious level, the kind of journalist that Lois is.
00:37:38
Speaker
Which, you know, retrospect, maybe Clark should have expected her to grill him about those things and that she wasn't going to pull her punches. But... But honestly, I do want to talk about the interview. Because, in my opinion, the interview is probably the best scene of the whole film.
00:37:53
Speaker
And it does. And it has been... and support Takes up a whopping 12 minutes of screen time. Yeah, I have that in my notes. It is 10% of the movie.
00:38:05
Speaker
And it feels like... It doesn't feel like it. It does not. It doesn't feel like it because it tells us so much about both of these characters, the world we're being dropped into, and so much more.
00:38:21
Speaker
the The writing, the pacing, the acting are so all so very on point that the 12 minutes it just flies by, no pun intended. fact, we are playing with Lois Lane connecting with Clark Kent And her interacting with quote-unquote Superman, who is Clark Kent.
00:38:44
Speaker
It's a multi-layered scene. But it's all so fascinating. So... so and no yeah It was super interesting like watching Clark kind of struggle with the persona versus the person. as he Yeah, that's what i was going to say. that that he he You can see him you know when he sits down and leans forward. You can see him his you know voice drop and see him turn, you know air quotes, into Superman.
00:39:15
Speaker
The veneer of Superman. turns He turns Superman on. so to speak, to do you know to do the interview. And it's just, it was neat to see that you know that little, okay, it's Superman. It's time to, you you know.
00:39:33
Speaker
Time to go to work. Time to go to work and to flip that little. It breaks as. Yeah. It breaks as Lois Lane is. chipping away at that veneer of um Superman. like She's asking questions like a journalist. She's not pulling any punches.
00:39:57
Speaker
But honestly, i think it was starting to break even before that because as much as he kind of tries to maintain this Superman persona, so much of Clark Kent is just built into who Superman is that he can't keep himself out of that persona.
00:40:12
Speaker
i see She does have to, like again, like the amount of times to push the button. they We got to redact that. it' like like Mostly, it was her breaking him down. and Honestly, that's... I've always been like, my favorite character in the Superman franchise has always been Lois Lane because she's like...
00:40:36
Speaker
see see She's standing up to a guy who is literally a demigod. And it's like, don't know, I want to hear the answer from you as Superman. It's like, yeah, it's it's going to hurt. like People are asking heavy questions. And I'm asking you heavy questions.
00:40:55
Speaker
And there's there's even an unspoken subtext of, I'm someone who cares about you, and I'm asking these questions. answer What is someone who doesn't give a damn i mean going say? Someone who literally is trying to undermine your every single action even. and go The whole so the sphere news or whatever they call it was not subtle.
00:41:20
Speaker
Oh, no. But I do love how Superman is like, yes, i he's just I don't represent anyone. i I just want and people who are going to die. It's like, guess what?
00:41:33
Speaker
You don't get to live in ah in a vacuum, Superman. People are going to ask questions. There's governments. there's There's committees. There's people.
00:41:46
Speaker
and like i guess like i i feel that, like, You live here, so people think you represent here. Whether you do or not, that's the implication.
00:41:57
Speaker
And Lois is like, see's but he's she's honestly being honest to herself. And honestly, I feel that she even admits it at the end of it, that scene, she feels like, I'm i'm bad at relationships. It's not because she's so brutal. It's because she's honest.
00:42:14
Speaker
She's to herself. She can only ask those questions hard. And she doesn't want to. I mean, in a way, it kind of parallels also, like, you know, that the divide or lack thereof between Clark Kent and Superman.
00:42:28
Speaker
At the end of the day you know, Miss Lane, the reporter, is still who Lois is. Even when it comes to someone that she has, like, you know, this other relatively intimate relationship with.
00:42:40
Speaker
she's not going to compromise her ethics or, you know, the ethos of who she is and what she believes. And it kind of fits with, like, how she says, like, I'm bad at relationships because she can't turn that off. She's... She'll ask and the hard questions. She'll ask the real, the real questions.
00:42:58
Speaker
Which is something that some relationships could use anyway. And in that way, they're both in that same space during this interview. Mm-hmm. They both have, know,
00:43:10
Speaker
a duality to them, the person and the job. The man and the woman, the the person and the personality. You get the sense that you Clark did it thinking that, oh, well, yeah, shes she's good at her job, but this is going to be kind of a softball. It's going to be kind of like when I quote unquote interview myself as Superman. I like that, especially how Stevie calls and Aldon's like, oh, so you know exactly how you you use space out the questions.
00:43:42
Speaker
It's like you you you actually practice soundbites, right? for your interview with yourself. He was just workshopping it. But also like, I was thinking that some of that also plays probably plays into like why it cuts so deep when she questioned his actions, because as much as he's Superman, he didn't just make those decisions and, you know, choose what he was going to do as Superman. He made those choices like as Clark Kent.
00:44:09
Speaker
as Superman is just the idea or like the persona that carried them out. Superman did the things. some As people frequently say, Clark Kent is who I am. Superman is what I do.
00:44:21
Speaker
Exactly. again i i Again, even when he said, like, oh yeah, I had a conversation with this world leader. I dragged him out too, and I pressed him against it. out of the desert and pushed him and placed him against a cactus.
00:44:35
Speaker
It's like, so you intimidated a world leader. It's like, um... I didn't make him piss himself if that's what you're asking. He did that all by himself.
00:44:46
Speaker
ah He didn't even mention He said, like, I just said that, like, if we'll have a more intense conversation after that. No, he mentioned that he experienced the smell of his urine.
00:44:57
Speaker
Oh, no, no, no, no. That was during the prison scene. in In the interview, yeah. It's like, as she's questioning him, it's suddenly dawning on him,
00:45:10
Speaker
oh Yeah, that is what I did.
Daily Planet's Role
00:45:14
Speaker
I'm impacting like global politic. But i can't i can't I can't back down because I'm doing the right thing. No one... I'm saving people!
00:45:28
Speaker
The whole scene like can be viewed as like, should he be doing this stuff? but also like He's also just coming from literal naive, pure, honest...
00:45:42
Speaker
desire to help. And you know he literally grew up in a place called Smallville. Could not be more on the nose. One of those other disingenuous complaints that comes up so often is that you know we we want to see a grounded Superman.
00:46:02
Speaker
You don't ground him by by making everything grim. This 12 minutes is how you ground Superman. he's human. That's how you tell a grounded Superman story.
00:46:14
Speaker
And it starts with him surprising his girlfriend after three months. Breakfast for dinner. Breakfast for dinner. And her say, like... That's your favorite, that's now my favorite.
00:46:26
Speaker
And he's like, well, you like breakfast? He's like, yes, for breakfast. Honestly, it was a really cute exchange and, you know, showed the beginning of like their kind of situationship at that point in time. And also kind of kind of guy is like, yeah, I could do breakfast for dinner. Yeah, yeah breakfast for dinner!
00:46:48
Speaker
There's a high chance that that's also one of the few things he knows how to make. Yeah, but there's actually nothing wrong with breakfast for dinner. Oh, absolutely Breakfast for dinner is fantastic. But it's definitely it's definitely a, when Clark Kent would be like,
00:47:03
Speaker
I know that Lois likes breakfast and it's dinner time. I will give her breakfast for dinner. Lois is like, I like breakfast at breakfast time, Clark. What I like too is that this comes after we see, we we get just a day in the life at the Daily Planet.
00:47:24
Speaker
I don't know if you noticed this, but you we see Clark on the street as Clark coming back. coming Walking to work at the Daily Planet. Walking? I would call it, like, bubbling.
00:47:39
Speaker
Well, as he gets closer to the Daily Planet, he turns Clark on more and more. oh yeah he He becomes more, like, like bubbling, like, regular slob. Yeah.
00:47:56
Speaker
Or Kent. well He got allows himself to be awkward and vulnerable and that he doesn't have to like keep up this front. And he he's wearing a suit that's one or two sizes too big.
00:48:09
Speaker
A, to hide his physique and to hide his costume. He has a little bit of a hunch to it do his shoulders. Also, like I fully believe that another reason that the suit's probably little ill-fitting is because he just found it at a thrift store.
00:48:23
Speaker
Oh, but that's probably how he how he did do it. He grabbed the first thing he could find that wasn't like 10 sizes too big or 10 sizes too small. Because he's also like a little bit huntsback, but not too huntsback.
00:48:37
Speaker
He's moving a small bit too much. we we mentioned We mentioned inspirations from the comics. There is a wonderful...
00:48:49
Speaker
sketch that Frank Quietly did when he was working out All-Star Superman showing the difference between Clark's posture and Superman's posture.
00:49:02
Speaker
It's just that the shapes that he used for the body but for Clark the top portion of it is bent over you know hunched. Yeah.
00:49:12
Speaker
And it helps disguise the physique.
00:49:18
Speaker
and Christopher Reeve did it too. Yeah. yeah we Also, just the fun of the Daily Planet is like, it wasn't a huge part of the movie, but it had so much flavor. would have loved so much more Daily Planet stuff, but it wasn't important to this story. The amount of Daily Planet that we got was what this story called for.
00:49:45
Speaker
It was risk of labor. It's just more this being a lived-in universe, too. Like, we talked about it, you know, the story opening in Medias Rest, and this is just further evidence of that, where all the relationships between these characters are established, they know each other, we know, like, what their dynamics are, there's no time spent, like, you know, this is my co-worker Jimmy, he's a photographer! It's just, oh, hey, Jimmy, what's up?
00:50:12
Speaker
They're friends. They're they're related. they Everyone has like have a co-worker dynamic. and it's like It just feels so natural and so rich. It's like, okay, I get it.
00:50:24
Speaker
like It very much just feels like another day at the office, like any other. also makes like want um want I want something with him. I want i want to make a Give us a Daily Planet HBO Max miniseries.
00:50:41
Speaker
Okay, but we're going to watch the shit out of that. Corn Sweat is barely in it. Oh yeah, he just makes the occasional cameo. yeah and And never in the costume. He's always Clark. as Clark Kent, like, you know, turning in his article or whatever.
00:50:58
Speaker
Making coffee, I don't know. give give Give me the misadventures of Jimmy Olsen. No, I want an ensemble, like, newsroom-style show about the Daily Planet stuff.
00:51:10
Speaker
Toss a bunch of money at Rachel Brosnahan to headline it. Yeah. I mean, you know, how many seasons of Marvelous Mrs. Maisel did she do? a lot. The answer is a lot.
00:51:22
Speaker
Have her headline it. And you know give give us give us a six-episode Daily Planet miniseries about them following some huge investigative story that there there's reasons that you have to bring in sports writer Steve Lombard and gossip columnist Kat Grant breaking this story.
00:51:45
Speaker
In fact, the only reason that like you know you get David Cordswit showing up is because eventually after they do all this investigation it kind of somehow dovetails with something superman's been doing in the background but at the end of the day their investigation is their own thing too he pops up not not in the first episode because that's too stunt casting oh yeah yeah phone call lois and that's it he's in episode three and he's in episode six He's at the end of episode six where he comes to deliver his interview with Superman about Superman's side of things.
00:52:23
Speaker
Yep. Stephanie, can you help me like put things back on track?
00:52:30
Speaker
what What I was kind of getting at there, though, is that this script is so efficient. Oh, it is. And that that sounds cold.
00:52:42
Speaker
Then someone's calculating about it, and I don't mean it that way, but there is not a single wasted moment in this movie. You know I love inefficient script.
00:52:53
Speaker
It is honestly criminal how efficient, like, everything, like, flows into everything, but also has a non-traditional flow to to storytelling.
00:53:10
Speaker
It's kind of writing I wish I was capable of instead of accidentally getting bogged down in all kinds of like purple prose and whatnot. everything yeah sort of like i know lely It's honestly classic comic books. just' like You pick up a comic book and it's like, okay, it has its own story and it's going through that.
00:53:30
Speaker
Also, you're limited to what you can contain by like speech bubbles, the little exposition bubbles, and just how much space there is in a page. But it's like the exposition that the characters make.
00:53:45
Speaker
It fits into like, oh, this is happening because that happens and that happens and like that's explained and that's how we get to here. here So we get to Ozzylick and it's very you unique storytelling. So we get to... ah We don't have to.
00:54:08
Speaker
What do we want to talk about next? Well, I mean, wait since we're talking about the Daily Planet characters, I mean, we're not necessarily going in linear order of the movie here.
00:54:19
Speaker
yeah talking That's what I'm saying. that There is rather great... But there's there's a there's a moment there's a moment here when we first get to the Daily Planet that kind of kicks off this question in my mind.
00:54:33
Speaker
Because when Clark shows up late, He has his head ducked. He's not looking anybody in the eye. And he passes Perry White and Perry looks at him.
00:54:45
Speaker
And then you go, he comments, you're late. And at the end, after everything is done, when Superman and Lois go off into empty mall to have their moment, Perry looks at Jimmy.
00:55:04
Speaker
And is like, well, like so ah this is leading to my question. Like said, we're not going linear here. So, do you want to see who feels that way?
00:55:17
Speaker
Like, you can go between like each of us like who agrees with you. Well, he hasn't asked the question yet. But he hasn't asked the question yet. have to get to the question first. So... Superman and Lois go into into the empty mall.
00:55:31
Speaker
They have their romantic moment. It cuts back outside and Perry looks at Jimmy and says, how long has that been going on? ah About three months, I think.
00:55:44
Speaker
So my question is, do Perry and Jimmy know who Clark is and they're just playing along?
00:55:53
Speaker
Or do they just think that Lois' mystery guy that she's told people that she's been seeing but isn't sure about is Superman?
00:56:06
Speaker
how Do you want to you that you want to go through like the each of us? yeah Yeah, go ahead. I'll go like they know.
00:56:18
Speaker
I'll say that Jimmy knows and that Perry is confirming that in that moment. See, I kind of feel the opposite because I feel like my guess is that Jimmy absolutely knows that like something is going on and that if he spent the time digging into it, he'd figure it out.
00:56:37
Speaker
But he has too much of his own shit going on to spend time solving mysteries about his coworkers. because you know Remember the the three months and that's the the exact one. I think it's one of those that that jimmy Jimmy knows.
00:56:53
Speaker
Jimmy knows that if he doesn't like one hunt with 100% accuracy know that Clark is Superman, he's got ah damn good feeling about it.
00:57:10
Speaker
He's like, there's... It's been three years. you know he can see the kind of you know, flirting. He can confirm Carl Ark is Superman, but Superman and Lois are a thing.
00:57:28
Speaker
But he's he can see that you know Lois and Clark have kind of got like this flirty thing going on. So he kind of suspects that. And he's pretty certain that Clark is Superman. And he knows that Lois has got a thing for Superman.
00:57:45
Speaker
So he's I'm pretty sure it's one of those that he knows. He just is playing dumb with it. And I think the same thing goes with...
00:57:56
Speaker
ah With Perry. With Perry. Yeah, no, I 100% believe that Perry knows it is known for a while. yeah but he he he knows. 100% knows that Clark is Superman because how else is Clark going to be getting all of these exclusive interviews with Superman?
00:58:16
Speaker
Yeah, that's why he's not going to say anything. How does it just so happen that was reporter, you know... Because if Perry knows and calls him out on it, that is like the the very epitome of no it no journalistic integrity whatsoever. If he says, like um you can't interview yourself.
00:58:43
Speaker
hu Right. He's not going to reveal the force. It's kind of like what some people think about Commissioner Gordon, that he knows who Batman is, but the moment he acknowledges he knows who Batman is, he has to arrest him.
00:59:00
Speaker
Exactly, he has plausible deniability. He's probably known for a while, but you know as long as Clark keeps showing up to work and meeting his deadlines, he could not be ours to Plus, if he gets looked at Clark, like you said, he'd lose all those exclusive interviews with Supes, and no way is he going to jeopardize that.
00:59:15
Speaker
I mean, the way I looked at it is that you know he's more or less protecting his sources. Yeah, he's... it's some style He looks at Clark and is like, you're late with a wink and a nod, like, yeah, I know why you're late, it's fine.
00:59:29
Speaker
but he still has plausible deniability, and, you know, as long as it doesn't impact him on a day-to-day level that becomes, you know, impossible to deal with, who cares? I still have to very brief for being late, because otherwise I wouldn't be doing my job, but... And Clark is just just a good old Kansas boy, so he's not a Batman level, like, oh, gotta think of, like,
00:59:55
Speaker
seven, like, five steps against everyone. It's like, oh, if I just, like, look look a little bit down and have my little, like, hypnoglasses. Yeah, wear a pair of glasses and, you know.
01:00:10
Speaker
It's like... We'll circle back to the hypnoglasses. Perry is a literal, like, experienced ah ah reporter journalist. He's like, Clark, I and bro I probably know you' fan where your family is. like You put that down.
01:00:33
Speaker
I've investigated you, dude. I know who you are. but and i i also i love this this movie's take on Jimmy.
01:00:45
Speaker
Oh! Jimmy is far more competent than he has ever been in anything else. Not only to be confident, but it's also strangely... pulling.
01:00:58
Speaker
ah What else would you say about that, Nick? Yeah, why don't you put the notes, Nick? Say it out loud. Say it. Say the line, Bart.
01:01:09
Speaker
You know, I'll say with my whole... with my whole test. Jimmy has, as the kids say, the riz. How do you do fellow kids? I love you, Daryl. That was beautiful.
01:01:22
Speaker
It's not the. There's no the in front of it. It's just Riz. He's a Rizzler, I've heard people say. Nick, Nick, never say Riz again. i will never. And I've been scandalized.
01:01:38
Speaker
And I dislike you for making me say it. ah hu I've been scandalized, Daryl. And I have been I have been just have When a part of my soul is destroyed.
01:01:51
Speaker
If he says skibbity-toilet, can we kick him off the podcast? I'm sorry? i said, if he says skibbity-toilet, can we kick him off the podcast? I don't think I'd survive that. a It would be tempting.
01:02:04
Speaker
What the fuck is that? Oh, thank God. Someone who doesn't suffer hasn't suffered like I've suffered. yeah I know what it is. i'm just Things I've learned against my will.
01:02:15
Speaker
We haven't put any notes in here about one of the big things that I probably think that we could have some fun talking about.
Introduction of Justice Gang
01:02:24
Speaker
And that's the Justice Gang.
01:02:27
Speaker
yeah it's just oh my God. yeah I love Nathan Fillion. Nathan Fillion is both a Canadian and an American national treasure and should be protected at all costs. Correct. Honestly, that's kind of my big problem like when we were making this.
01:02:46
Speaker
there's so much to talk about, but like, the Justice Gang. The Justice Gang has so much to talk about, and I mean, where they're like, Guy Gardner.
01:02:59
Speaker
Nathan Fillion is Guy Gardner specifically. I was one of those people who for years was like, Nathan Fillion should play Hal Jordan. But now that I have seen this movie, and told me he did play Hal Jordan in animation.
01:03:14
Speaker
Daryl, you and I were in this baby and it say in the same camp. We won that. No, no. We were wrong.
01:03:26
Speaker
There's no one better to play Guy Gardner. Guy Gardner stepped off of a comics page and into this movie and he looked and sounded like Nathan Fillion.
01:03:40
Speaker
What was it you said about a lovable rogue, Nathan Fillion? Yes, lovable rogue Nathan Fillion. I don't remember exactly what I said after the movie yesterday. But also, horrible, like, aggressive asshole Nathan Fillion, which is also Guy Gardner. It's like, he's pure, perfect Guy Gardner.
01:04:04
Speaker
And both the script and his performance... Captured that balance between, you yeah, guy's an asshole. Guy can also sometimes be kind of dumb without being stupid, if you catch the difference.
01:04:21
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, yeah, how often do I say I may be dumb, but I'm not stupid? He never crosses that line where you say, oh I hate this guy. No, no, he's... I don't love him.
01:04:33
Speaker
He's the only... He's a lovable asshole. Lovable rogue. i so I saw a clip of an interview today just today.
01:04:45
Speaker
where they were talking to him about, you know, so where does Guy Gardner stand in the ranks of the Green Lantern? i'm curious about your character, Guy. We'll see more of him in Lanterns, but do you know where you rank as far as the Lantern hierarchy? If you have an emergency and you need, you know, someone who to come and wield one of the most powerful weapons in the universe, you want to call a Green Lantern. say, we need a Green Lantern.
01:05:13
Speaker
And then they say, going to get Guy Gardner. You'd say, ah, crap of all the lanterns that's the last one you want but at the same time if you're one of the guardians of oa and you need some dirty work done you go right to guy hey we need you do this thing it's a little unseemly he's like shelter it's no problem but also this is going to be interesting okay oh god oh god as someone who's big fan of like and someone is a big fan of like like Like the Sinister Corps
01:05:43
Speaker
Like, that's my guy Gardner. It's like, this is my guy Gardner. He's like, yeah, he has no nuance. He has no no normalcy. But when he needs to be he's going to kick fucking ass.
01:05:59
Speaker
Or at least he pretends to have no nuance. But he'll still kick fucking ass. Isabella Merced had a little bit of screen time as Hawkgirl. She needed more.
01:06:11
Speaker
She needed more. there there wasn't much i did wish he had more, but I did like the Screech. The Screech was fun. There's Mr. Terrific. And for starters, Eddie Gathegi got justice for the way that both he and Darwin were done dirty in X-Men First Class.
01:06:32
Speaker
Oh my god, right? Darwin, it's like... Me either. Brev and I talked about that in our Peter David episode. He was under it. Mr. Terrific more than makes up for it.
01:06:46
Speaker
had had cal director yes The best sequence. that That sequence it was fun. yeah best carro he He got the trademarked James Gunn fight scene for this movie.
01:07:01
Speaker
with the race the one The one-er with the 360 and all the, you know he got that trademark James Gunn fight scene. And he he owned it.
01:07:13
Speaker
Oh, and he actually got the actual fight scenes in there. On top of that, like he did some actual actions on there.
01:07:24
Speaker
It was fun. But it was it was very clear that he was going to be the one of the three of them that had the biggest impact on the story.
01:07:35
Speaker
yeah And again, efficient script that trusted the audience. We kept hearing, leading up to the movie, people saying, oh, it's going to be too overcrowded with characters.
01:07:51
Speaker
Is there even going to be room for Superman with all of these characters? Yes, there's plenty of room. There's plenty of room for Superman because they show up for, like, three scenes.
01:08:05
Speaker
This may be very exciting for, like, an actual, like, not just a just, like, uh... Just League Unlimited style.
01:08:16
Speaker
like No Nick. Say it. This is James Gunn with the kind of stuff he does. Justice League International. He's got a point.
01:08:28
Speaker
Give us his Justice League International. Because again I guess the main thing is like Guardians the Galaxy. A team movie. I think you can make a huge team movie work.
01:08:42
Speaker
Yes, give us Justice League International. No shame to Justice League Unlimited. That was an awesome concept, but... We already have Justice League Unlimited. Yeah.
01:08:53
Speaker
We have it. It's right there. But here's the thing. We don't need another one. You don't need to reinvent perfection. Here's my thing. It's like, if we do a movie like that, we have like a whole lot of of unique characters...
01:09:09
Speaker
And we say, like, the main big parts for the Trinity. Well, if we go Justice League International, the Trinity was never part of it as a whole.
01:09:20
Speaker
but i'm saying like per show from time to time Superman never joined them. Wonder Woman was part of Justice League Europe for two issues. I'm saying that for, like, for the movie, if they do that.
01:09:35
Speaker
No, but I'm just saying you don't need the Trinity to have the JLI. They don't have to show up at all even, honestly. and just that. And it might be better for it to keep it, like, you know, more contained.
01:09:47
Speaker
No, one of the Trinity has to show up. Because while we have said that, you know, they've drawn inspiration and vibes and a few beats but not adapting, you know exactly what Justice League International moment has to be translated to screen.
01:10:03
Speaker
Ooh, okay, you got a point there. One punch. You have a point there. Batman has to lay out Gardner with one punch. Oh, yeah.
01:10:15
Speaker
As if Gardner would deserve it. Oh, of course he would. Exactly. That's what makes it so much fun. Honestly, like they feel and he knows about that and he's like, he's preparing himself.
01:10:29
Speaker
And he's like, ah like pattern room its like, okay, Batman has to punch me. Right the base. I can see him getting multiple takes too because it's got to be perfect.
01:10:41
Speaker
And here' here's the thing. Batman punches him early in act one and knocks him out. And then leaves. and and And Gardner is out of the rest of the movie until the post-credit scene when he wakes up. but it's like what i miss That's how you take Green Lantern off the board for a Justice League movie.
01:11:04
Speaker
And, you know, you don't have to have as too much Nathan Filling to the point where that's a good chunk of your budget. Right. Although it'd be worth it. But, yeah, the the Justice Gang was good.
01:11:15
Speaker
And, you know, Guy was very adamant about making the Justice Gang happen.
01:11:21
Speaker
Stop trying to make it happen. It's not to happen. Yep. And... yeah What is this? They're in the Hall of Justice, which looks amazing. Well, they they filmed outside the real Union Station in Cincinnati that the Hall of Justice was designed after.
01:11:39
Speaker
Amazing Hall of Justice. And with a A mural on the wall. and Originally, someone, I think it was might have been one of us outside the theater yesterday, called it a Justice Society mural.
01:11:54
Speaker
But I was watching a video that was talking about it, and it's more than just the Justice Society. oh It's the history of metahumans in yeah this universe. Yeah.
01:12:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's going to be like heavily important. It hasn't been revealed yet. So probably, I believe like the this specifics is about like maybe two or three weeks.
01:12:16
Speaker
I just want to be able to stare at it more and pick it apart. Oh, it looks gorgeous. And there's so many cool ideas. there there was one I was watching the new Rockstars video and Eric Foss is breaking down who all he thought it was since they weren't clear and everything.
01:12:31
Speaker
I forget who he he called out as being, I think this is so-and-so. And I'm looking at it and I was like, no, that's Vibe breakdancing. Yeah, Vibe. called it out It's Vibe breakdancing.
01:12:49
Speaker
i mean, yeah, also you get a portray Vibe on the mural. There's not a single wasted character in this movie. yeah even Even characters that you think are incidental.
01:13:01
Speaker
Like Miss Tessmacher. Miss Tessmacher was created for the Donner movie. And showed up in the first two of those. And she eventually they eventually brought the character into the comics relatively recently.
01:13:18
Speaker
But made, like, no real impact. They made impact because Jimmy's really cool.
01:13:31
Speaker
Well, and I know that Betsy has some things to say about Eve. Yes. That we were talking about, you know... Jimmy, what was it you said in the notes, Nick? Hold on.
01:13:42
Speaker
He's pulling heavy baddies, if I'm reading your notes correctly? Yes. that That sure is a way to say it. But, you know, just in that vein, I really need to talk about Eve because I do... What was he saying again, though, Betsy?
01:13:56
Speaker
See... Oh, here, let me read the whole thing. Jimmy is comic accurate as he's has got, as the kids these days say, the riz and is pulling heavy baddies. How do you you fellow kids?
01:14:09
Speaker
One second.
01:14:13
Speaker
she's like she's basically the elwoods of this movie and she deserves so much more respect because if you like she almost near so englehandedly brought down luther and she played her part perfectly and even better like you know les never suspected a goddamn thing still didn't even after she yeah got arrested one second And say, theyre like, i agree with you entirely.
01:14:36
Speaker
Yeah, she's an incredibly, like, interesting character. And that twist, amazing. But it does go back to the fact that, like, it would not have happened because without the, our good boy, Jimmy Olsen, being able to pull some riz.
01:14:55
Speaker
Darryl, can you play the clip again? Yeah, because he needs to stop saying that. do, fellow kids? Ha ha ha. There's a feeling you know it right. How do you do, fellow kids?
01:15:08
Speaker
He'll just keep playing it.
01:15:11
Speaker
Yeah, but no, like, I like to think that even after he was arrested, like, on his way to Belrev, Lex still had no fucking clue that E was the one that exposed all of his shit. Like, he just, like everybody else, totally underestimated her and wrote her off as some airhead who was worth nothing more than just the arm candy she provided for him at public events.
01:15:30
Speaker
But no, here she was playing him like a goddamn fiddle. Like, even after getting caught and imprisoned, her cry wasn't said to be, like, leaking all kinds of secret info. It was that she was sending sexy selfies to another man.
01:15:43
Speaker
Because none of them could even, like, fathom the idea that she might have a larger scheme going on. Not to mention one she's been working on for months, if not years, like, looking at all those photos. And when you look at them, like, every single one of those was perfectly staged.
01:15:56
Speaker
to look like, you know, your typical Instagram influencer selfie or whatever media the kids are using these days. So unless you're actually like looking for what's in the background, no one would notice the information.
01:16:08
Speaker
She like explicitly posed with things like, you know, contracts and written agreements, stuff that, Normally, like, you know, she would have no reason to pose for pose within the background. Hell, she got like a perfect view of the map and she angled her body just right in that photo so you could see it up close, the dividing line where, you know, you're going to have Baravia and Luthoria or whatever.
01:16:30
Speaker
Like, she knew exactly what she was doing the whole time and she was just biding her time until the right moment. And even, even Jimmy, who is more competent than he's ever been in anything else,
01:16:42
Speaker
didn't get it at first. It was Lois who was like, hey, look at this. She's a goddamn genius. Yeah. Because Jimmy underestimated her too. Yeah. Everybody did.
01:16:52
Speaker
because Because Jimmy was annoyed by... Jimmy wasn't just annoyed by her. Jimmy was scared of the thing. Oh, she wants to like actually have a capital R relationship.
01:17:08
Speaker
And I don't want that with her. I have to spend a whole weekend with her for this information. That's the worst thing that could ever happen. Yep.
01:17:19
Speaker
Jimmy, take a bullet to get her out of that horrible situation. Oh my God. Yep. And, you know, also like save people and whatnot, but just do a when she's horrible, abusive relationship.
Superman's Heroic Acts
01:17:31
Speaker
We've also, we're coming up now. we We have some of Lauren's notes here. Yes. um That, noting that Superman saves so many people from falling stuff in this movie.
01:17:44
Speaker
Falling kaiju feet, falling buildings, at least one other thing too. And gravity really has it out for people this time. And Superman is there to catch whatever's dropping and prevent it from crushing innocence.
01:17:57
Speaker
He even saves a squirrel. ah and And, you know, Nick now shaves his head and has his Luthor origin moment.
01:18:08
Speaker
Okay, so ah this movie is a negative is a negative 100. It is the worst film of all time.
01:18:21
Speaker
I despise We can hear the squirrel-related PTSD in your voice. but he I live would have been happy if... experimented his usual and very understandable respectful saving of a of a cat from a tree or a dog in danger or an orphan. He did save a dog in danger.
01:18:52
Speaker
And an orphan possibly. We don't know for sure. um But you draw the line at squirrels. I don't want lie and it's squirrels. Oh, come on. That was one time. But also, though, to to Lauren's larger point there, I know we you don't need to two tear one piece of work down to build another up.
01:19:14
Speaker
But I've seen comparisons online from a certain segment of the movie-going audience who kind of wanted this one to fail because they prefer a different iteration of Superman, that, well, there's just as much destruction in Metropolis in this one as the one that everybody complained about.
01:19:39
Speaker
Yeah, property destruction. But in this one...
01:19:44
Speaker
Superman is actually trying to save the people that the destruction is happening around and almost to. Instead of casually floating out of the way of a flaming tanker truck that's hurtling through the streets of Metropolis.
01:20:01
Speaker
they are yeah Are you creating a it this situation when I have to choose between these two? Let the kids in the bus die, Nick.
01:20:15
Speaker
And he said, maybe.
01:20:21
Speaker
But yeah then Lauren's next note is that one of the strong points of the movie is definitely the villains involved. Luthor, Ultraman, and the Engineer all serve solid roles throughout the adventure.
01:20:35
Speaker
ah I loved the engineer's animation with her nanites and the various weapons she created. The way her versatility and at ah and adaptability were presented made for a credible threat even for the Man of Steel.
01:20:47
Speaker
And I despise her because she hurt the very good boy. I can accept hacking the fortress and working for Luthor, but I draw the line at animal cruelty. Yeah, but Nick said before we started recording that he wants to see the movie, the scene restored where Ultraman punches the good boy.
01:21:03
Speaker
He did say that out loud. We all heard it. Release the animal cruelly cut.
01:21:10
Speaker
Oh, Nick, you're going to get canceled. Yep. They don't even need the army of monkeys. I'll gladly have either one of you guys cancel me. Strangle me to death. Your choice.
01:21:24
Speaker
Well, have you updated the will yet? The Superman-like conflict is so very... Very interesting. you You've heard a lot about before. or In our previous discussions.
01:21:38
Speaker
But it's like. It's very petty. He's incredibly powerful. Incredibly wealthy. But he. Just doesn't. and See that it's like a way to help people. He believes that to help people. Is to be himself.
01:21:56
Speaker
And the fact that Superman. Is so powerful. Has so much hope. And power in himself. That's because he's powerful. Because people believe in him.
01:22:08
Speaker
It's narcissism. It's. It's pettiness. It's the fact that he could do more. To help people. Even more than Superman can.
01:22:21
Speaker
With his. Immense wealth and power. But he chooses to use that. To fight. And kill Superman. Out of.
01:22:32
Speaker
self-ist, self-ist-greet. mean, it's a simple story, but it's like, it does. that That's the point. Ice Lufar is what Superman wants to be.
01:22:47
Speaker
Could be. Instead, his enemy is just trying to stop him when he could be everything he could be. And that goes back to, like, the all-star Superman, where he He does take on the power of Superman for a small point. It's like, sees how like he can see everything, has all this power, and knows that with his intelligence, he can do everything.
01:23:14
Speaker
Then it fades away. It's like, he could do that on his own. Superman confronting Lex in their first ever, in what is apparently their first ever in-person meeting.
01:23:26
Speaker
according to Lex. And Lex is just the ah epitome of petty energy where he mutters under his breath, ugly dog with a cape.
01:23:37
Speaker
And that's just sheer Lex energy. When I tell you why I was ready to like throw my drink at this movie screen, I swear to God, like Clark blowing off fighting the interdimensional imp because he's busy looking for crypto And then bursting into Lex's office, like flipping tables and ready to actually throw hands with like near murderous intent because the bastard took his fucking dog.
01:24:00
Speaker
It's so relatable and valid. Honestly, he went too easy on Lex. I would be ready to put people in the ground for hurting my dogs. They are very good girls. Huh, Maple? Yes, you're a very good girl.
01:24:10
Speaker
Yeah. yeah had And then there's that moment after that where Superman and Lois are talking in his apartment. It's the aforementioned punk rock scene that, you know he, after their conversation, he gets ready to take off and she's like, well, are you going to go help them?
01:24:33
Speaker
And he's like, no, I'm going to go look for the dog. And he, he gives the why of it. He's because he's out there alone somewhere and he's probably scared. um And I was just like, oh my God.
01:24:48
Speaker
Tears. felt that. i Nick's not even a dog owner, but I think he felt that too. And like, it's not just that, but like finding crypto was one of his motivations for turning himself in. Like,
01:25:02
Speaker
He hoped that if he let the feds, by which I mean LexCorp, the private company, because art imitates life, take him in, then they would send him to wherever they took k crypto. He just wanted to save his good boy.
01:25:14
Speaker
and he he wasn't wrong. No, he was not wrong. Crypto was right there. and crypto was having the time of his life chasing holographic squirrels. Not just any squirrels, super squirrels.
01:25:25
Speaker
That's hell. With capes. That's hell. Super squirrels with capes. Super squirrels with capes? Hell, hell, hell.
01:25:37
Speaker
I think we know what we need to do now. We need to get a bunch of inexpensive ah plush squirrels and put capes around them and occasionally just drop them at Nick's house in random No, we just got to hide them around the house.
01:25:50
Speaker
That's what I mean. Oh no, I just had a horrible idea. had an awful idea. of but I love it. help Have Nicole help inside squirrels. yeah See, she would want to keep all of them first. so I love our friends.
01:26:07
Speaker
Nick, would we go to all of this trouble to harass you if we weren't? You say that like we also don't harass each other. Yes. You're right. but next next note of next note of Lauren's is that the movie's villains very much fall within the evil counterpart of the hero trope that a lot of supervillains typically use.
01:26:29
Speaker
Ultraman is an obvious counterpart to Superman, but a somewhat more subtle element is how Luthor and Mr. Terrific effectively act as counterparts to each other as well.
01:26:41
Speaker
And within this context, even the engineer has a counterpart acting as Lex's tools, essentially functioning as a counterpart to the T-spheres on some level, in part representing how Luthor have views those below him as nothing but objects, and even how she herself admits she gave up her humanity.
01:27:02
Speaker
Honestly, that's really good. Because, ah yeah, the engineer does sort of put herself less than Lex, and is always working for his designs.
01:27:18
Speaker
Despite her being like, she has a whole lot of power. She's even able to hack into Kryptonian ah computer system.
01:27:30
Speaker
But she's never like acting on her own agency. She's only working for a loophole. We also have a note that the presence and identity of Ultraman is an interesting note.
01:27:44
Speaker
The way Luthor describes him as an exceptionally dumb clone of Superman definitely makes Lauren think of Bizarro. Notably, this is hardly the first live-action adaptation of Superman to have a Bizarro-like figure, with Superman 4 having Nuclear Man and, Lauren forgot, the dark Superman in Superman 3.
01:28:06
Speaker
um And Smallville also having an evil Clark figure with similar physical features. Yet, despite having pseudo adaptations on multiple occasions, I don't think we've ever actually gotten a live action Bizarro in any conventional capacity.
01:28:22
Speaker
Not that I can think of. Yeah, not that I can think of. so Superman and Lois came close, but rather than being from a Bizarro world or being a clone, their Bizarro was from basically a mirror universe.
01:28:37
Speaker
Yeah. And... And then they had an interesting twist that Superman and Lois Pizarro became Superman and Lois Doomsday. Which also is kind of mirrored here in this movie because ultra especially once his outfit starts to get shredded it looks a lot like the containment outfit that Doomsday was first introduced in.
01:29:00
Speaker
With the goggles and the torn mask. The goggles and the torn mask, yeah. And like the containment suit. but like It's definitely more a Bizarro-esque as than a Bruno Doomsday in terms of like design.
01:29:18
Speaker
Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. And then another note from Lauren, when Luthor mentioned how he controlled Ultraman through his coded fighting game inputs and Superman repeated his phrasing of brains beat brawn, I was really expecting Superman to have memorized the various inputs Luthor had been shouting out and to start shouting commands of his own to confuse Ultraman and force misplays to his advantage.
01:29:43
Speaker
I think that would have been fun. never fun but That would have been fun, but would it have been more fun than crypto snatching all of the drones out of the air because they were toys?
01:29:59
Speaker
I think I literally leaned over to Stephanie like you know when that was about to happen. I said, crypto fetch! Yep. and Before that, when when they were in the pocket dimension and he first saw the T-Sphere, I heard her say, oh no.
01:30:13
Speaker
It looks like a tennis ball. Yeah, I was about to say, she has seen our dogs with tennis balls. Honestly, here's where I would have put it in. Lois takes control of like one of those what of the drones and uses it to like against Overman.
01:30:34
Speaker
So it's like a three-way like ah like like struggle.
Lex Luthor's Menacing Presence
01:30:39
Speaker
And then another note from Lauren, Luthor's speech when Superman has him cornered is perfect.
01:30:46
Speaker
Oh, it is. Yeah, no, I totally agree. Like, perfect characterization for Luthor, in my opinion. Like, the dude has no grand ambitions for political or economic domination. He doesn't want to take over the world.
01:30:57
Speaker
Hell, he doesn't even care that much about like gaining influence or control beyond having them for their own sake. Like, all of his actions boil down to, I am uncomfortable when we are not about me. Like, to me, that version of Luther will always be more menacing than one that wants to become a dictator or something. Like, for the latter, his motives at least make sense.
01:31:15
Speaker
Like, there's a level of clarity and there's an understanding that he's still willing to draw the line somewhere in the service of larger goals. Because, you know, like, you can't become president if there's nowhere left to be president of.
01:31:27
Speaker
But... This Luthor, he's so single-minded in his one goal, like so obsessed with killing just this one specific guy that he would let the world and everything else burn if it meant he get rid of Superman.
01:31:39
Speaker
I mean, he was prepared to open up a dimensional rift and let it destroy the very fabric of the universe as long as he got to watch Superman die. even, like, the fame and attention he claims to cling to pale incomppis in comparison to his sheer hatred and resentment of Supes.
01:31:53
Speaker
And there's no telling how far he'll go or what he'll do because, like, literally nothing is off limits. Again, like, he even said, like like, they chose him! And I care not offer for that.
01:32:07
Speaker
Again, like, I do believe, like, and that I think we all broke the career, like, the idea, like, this Lex is... probably the best Lex in Vixen.
01:32:22
Speaker
no He's not hiding behind a like sort of higher power or higher like belief. is like No, he he he created a global conflict just because I can kill Superman.
01:32:38
Speaker
We've gotten two incredible but vastly different portrayals of Lex Luthor within the first year. We had Michael Kudlitz on Superman and Lois who was a frightening Lex Luthor.
01:32:55
Speaker
He was Lex who had nothing left to lose with a frankly justifiable grudge against Lois Lane. But I would say that this is your classic.
01:33:09
Speaker
This is what every Lex should. Nicholas Holt is like the playing the Lex Luthor that you should do.
01:33:20
Speaker
It's this petty evil thing. petty evil Nicholas Holt's portrayal of Lex would be right at home in the post-Crisis on Infinite Earths relaunch of Superman, where in the second issue, he gathers all of this information about Superman and runs it through a computer, and the computer spits out, oh, well, it's clearly obvious that Superman is Clark Kent, and he can't
01:33:52
Speaker
He rejects the notion because he can't fathom the idea that someone with Superman's power would act like a normal person. You get what happens in the movie. was like He says, like, the next person I'll bring out is that the reporter you talked to, Clark Kent.
01:34:13
Speaker
he's right He's right there. Right there. right there Oh, jeez, that's me. Yeah, but no, I think i you had some points about, like, you know, humanity and what Lex and Superman say about that.
01:34:25
Speaker
A great quote about, like, the difference between Superman and Lex comes from the Bible.
01:34:37
Speaker
And it is is's easier for a camel go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. Mark 10.25 Just an example of how they define and think of about themselves.
01:34:59
Speaker
Lex and Superman are diametrically opposed morals, goals, and desires about humanity and how it views itself. It's...
01:35:10
Speaker
Lex views himself as a god and he tries to justify himself. Superbad is more close to a more Christian-like person, ah more Christ-like person that desires to work and make good for humanity with no example.
01:35:34
Speaker
Lex wants power and will always weigh on his soul And that'll make it hard for him to make it through. the other side. He... But that's why they're so directly opposed.
01:35:48
Speaker
For all the wealth and strength that Lex Luthor makes. The selflessness of Superman will always be his opposite.
01:36:00
Speaker
And that's sort of shown in this movie. It's like... In that final moment, like... Superman says, like... I'm a human. I am human just like you, Lex.
01:36:14
Speaker
and And you're teeing up one of Betsy's points right there. Hit it, Bets. Yeah, like, Nick, we're talking about, you know, Superman is more human than Lex is, and Lex is the alien for, like, trying to stand above everybody, despite being a human, too.
01:36:32
Speaker
And, like, you know, I 100% agree with that. I mean, you know, anyone who's listened to me when I crotch Clone Watch episodes knows that I just live for good character shit and have no self-control when talking about characterization or getting into meta and whatnot, but, you know, that's my problem.
01:36:47
Speaker
I can stop anytime I want, I just don't want to. That's why i love you, man. That's one of the many reasons we all love you, Betsy. Aw, you can't see it, but I'm like, you know, doing the hurt hands thing.
01:37:00
Speaker
Aww. Is it is the heart dancing or is it like the K-pop heart thing? I don't know what that second one is. How do you do fellow kids? Anyway. don't know. I'm not on K-pop stan Twitter.
01:37:14
Speaker
Just, that speech is the perfect microcosm of who Clark Kent and by extension Superman is and what he stands for. And I think what makes it all the worse for Luthor is that like, Luthor, he was born human.
01:37:27
Speaker
And yet it's his actions that other him. Clark was born anything but human, but you know despite his alien oranges origins, he still has humanity because from his very first moments out of the rocket, he was given that humanity. No questions asked.
01:37:41
Speaker
What Luthor simultaneously rejects and pretends to, Clark was freely given. First by his parents, as in the Kents, you know, the parents that actually raised him, not the bio parents. And then just over and over again by all the people in his life, it wasn't earned, it wasn't transactional, it wasn't conditional.
01:37:57
Speaker
Humanity accepted him and he accepted them back.
Superman's Humanity and Influence
01:38:00
Speaker
I also think that's another part of why Luthor can't stand him too, because Luthor just can't comprehend the idea that things like love and care aren't transactional, but instead something that every single person deserves.
01:38:13
Speaker
It was a very, you you you expect the resolution between Superman and Luthor to be some kind of big dramatic set piece. And there was a big dramatic set piece.
01:38:27
Speaker
where he's he's fighting Ultraman while the rift is opening and Mr. Terrific's trying to close the rift. Yeah, but the big action set piece is there.
01:38:39
Speaker
But the real climax... The real knockout to Lex is Superman establishing his own humanity.
01:38:50
Speaker
it's It's a man to man. it's It's a person to person. It's a climax where they have to... the It's also kind of subverted in the fact that Lex does not accept it.
01:39:06
Speaker
Lex doesn't accept it, and then Crypto thrashes him around. Good boy. yeah That's ironically the actual like climax. is like Lex is ready to vehemently...
01:39:21
Speaker
no, you're wrong, Superman. It's like, and then Crypto's like, dog We're having this discussion about humanity and, you know, what makes someone human, and then the dog comes in with a steel chair.
01:39:34
Speaker
Right. And the we've got one last note from Lauren that ah one of my favorite characters in the movie is definitely Metamorpho. I love the effects for his transformative abilities, the way he generates kryptonite, his gaseous form for flight, his bubbling green body when he generates acid.
01:39:53
Speaker
Everything about the character's animation is perfect, and his character arc is a perfect encapsulation of Superman's effects on the world around him. letamorpho starts out hopeless trapped under luthor's thumb due to his son being held hostage however superman gives him the strength he needs in order to stand up to luthor leading to one of the best parts of the movie where he creates a miniature sun in order to power up the man of steel leading to the interdimensional escape sequence which is absolutely beautiful oh it is and i think that also like ties back to our discussion about humanity and everything
01:40:28
Speaker
Because, you know, ah initially when he's in that cell with him, keeps telling him, like, oh, that's your son? I could totally fly over there and get him if you just help me. But that's not enough to convince him. What convinces him is, you know, after Lex shoots Molly, the guy that gave Superman Falafel 3 that one time.
01:40:46
Speaker
And honestly, that's what's a horrific scene. Honestly, like I could see how like in like scripting that could be like a... darkly cut comedic moment, but no, that they didn't, that came of, like, actually horrible.
01:41:05
Speaker
Yeah, but I think what, like, was the deciding factor was, you know, Metamorpho was sitting there like, oh my god, that's horrible, he just killed him! And Clark just leans over and says, his name was Molly.
01:41:17
Speaker
Like, establishing, you know, the humanity of this random guy that he only knows him because he didn't fool all that one time, and he remembered his name! And even Molly said, like, Molly said, like I don't have and on my family. youre like It's okay. it's like You don't have to give anything. it's like it and do you like This would be a dark comedy moment. Even then, I was like, and I'm fine with dark comedy moments, but even that night, this was evil.
01:41:48
Speaker
This was hard. It hit me. and and It's not just that you Clark remembers his name, but his reaction is that that's causing him even more pain than the kryptonite.
01:42:03
Speaker
Yeah. Someone that, you know, ostensibly in the grand scheme of things you would think is just small and not even all that significant. But to Clark, it's like, you know, losing one of his parents almost. It's, you know, he's seeing this life taken in front of him because of him.
01:42:18
Speaker
And I think that to Metamorpho like establishes that no, Clark isn't just like, you know, talking out of his ass here and he's not just trying to save himself. He means it when he says he wants to help. and that he'll give anything to help save his son and, you know, get them all out of there and do what's right.
01:42:32
Speaker
Because I'm sure it's not the first time he's heard someone say, hey, hey, hey, let's, you know, work together and try to escape. I mean, you saw how fast the other people that were locked up tried to rat him out when he tried to make a son to heal Superman, because they were already just saved their own asses instead of hoping that they could get out too.
01:42:48
Speaker
But he was willing to take that chance because Clark in that moment proved to him that, no, he meant what he said. Like, I'm... i will yeah I don't mind like a dark comedic moment, it's like, there was no comedy in that. That was just like bleak.
01:43:07
Speaker
It was like, is and there was no like pointed like that. It's like, even when Lex Luthor said like, oh, I thought I was going to last a little longer.
01:43:19
Speaker
I didn't think that was going to happen that soon. yeah like that That wasn't funny. I was like, no, i felt bad. there was no like dark comedy. There was this pure like pain because we saw it all from Superman's perspective. it's like, and he coming me back is, and even, even the only light part of that is like, it's like, oh, I'll go find that reporter that you interview Clark Kent. It's like, but even then like,
01:43:51
Speaker
No, that wasn't funny.
Luthor's Comprehension of Selflessness
01:43:53
Speaker
That whole sequence it was like bleak and hard. It was horrifying, honestly. It's actually yeah given the gravity that, you know, seeing someone murdered in cold blood deserves.
01:44:05
Speaker
And honestly, like in any other like sequence and honestly, I could see how many other movies could have played that off. Like, oh You know, he's just the random level guy. They probably wouldn't have even given him a name.
01:44:19
Speaker
casual cruelty and just a little bit of like fun. Like, no, this is Superman movie. He felt that he he was devastated by that even more than the fact that he's being tortured by kryptonite.
01:44:36
Speaker
Yeah. And I think to touch on that too, like the purpose wasn't to establish like, you know, that Lex Luthor is evil and cruel and a bad person. It was to establish how much Superman cares for,
01:44:49
Speaker
And how powerless he was in that moment, because he if he had, if he wasn't poisoned by Kryptonite, he would have done everything he could have stopped that moment. Absolutely. I feel like also usually scenes like that are meant to establish like you know the credibility of the villain and that you know they're not messing around. But this ultimately really had not much at all to do with Lex Luthor, because we already knew what kind of asshole he was.
01:45:14
Speaker
This was purely to further establish who Clark Kent is and what he stands for and what he believes in. That no person is too small, that every single life matters, and that he'll do whatever he can to keep people safe and alive.
01:45:27
Speaker
But also, Salis, how much, how the tats lack sleuthing is he does not care. He does not understand what Superman is, and he's gladly...
01:45:42
Speaker
yeah he's gleefully accepting that, like, oh, I hurt him a little bit. Yep. Honestly, this is probably the most evil sex loofer I've seen in fixing.
01:45:54
Speaker
I think he's pretty close to, you know, reaching the levels of unhinged that you were talking about with Clark and Lois. Yeah, yeah. With Superman and Lois, he was... he was scary and cruel, and but he was, he was rougher about it all.
01:46:12
Speaker
um Just in part because of Cudlitz aesthetic in the part, a lot of people were referring to him as, as biker Lex. But like, Lex still has stuff that he can lose, but he's fast approaching having nothing left. Yeah.
01:46:28
Speaker
Well, and, but and Cudlitz's Lex had also spent, you know 15 years in prison. yeah So he was a hardened Lex. And where is this Lex going?
01:46:42
Speaker
this This is a Lex who as we see him this Lex is just cruel for cruelty's sake.
01:46:53
Speaker
he's He's not hardened. He's not dog eat dog. He's efficiently cruel. But I don't see him. I feel his development is going to be.
01:47:05
Speaker
He's going to be a monster. I see where he could. you know Become that kind of character too. Yeah. Where he becomes that much. Again becomes scary like you said.
01:47:17
Speaker
what One of the things that they established... He's um already terrified. In Lex's first appearance in Superman and Lois, the first thing that you see when he's in prison is he's eating.
01:47:33
Speaker
And he, as it pulls back, you see that he's using another inmate as a chair. Sounds about right. And...
01:47:44
Speaker
you know, of course, things turn in the series finale once he's defeated and sent back to prison. ah Someone that Lois and Clark put in prison in season three, who has been working with them to put Lex away in season four, walks in. He's now in charge behind bars and tells Lex that Lex looks like he'll make a really good chair.
01:48:07
Speaker
Amazing. I'm generally scared of this Lex going forward, especially... if it This is his first defeat. And he's already made some big effect.
01:48:21
Speaker
All indications are this is the first time that he has openly gone up against Superman. oh That's what I'm saying. like and Probably the first time he's ever actually lost anything and all. so That he couldn't buy his way out of.
01:48:36
Speaker
So that there is going to... He is going to be a problem And I am scared and fascinated by what's going to happen.
01:48:47
Speaker
i see them just skipping straight to Legion of Doom. Yeah, we've got a ways to go before a Superman 2. Mm-hmm. hu but They've already got a slate planned out, and based on this, I'm there for it.
01:49:04
Speaker
Oh, I'm fine with that, but I say, like, it I'm fine of waiting for the next time we see Lex. In a reason of doom.
01:49:15
Speaker
ah can't handle, like, being part of a larger... Let him, like, play it out and give it a whole rose gallery. just want to see if he gets more unhinged or if he tries to pull the whole I'm reformed act.
01:49:31
Speaker
I think... I want to go this full, like, slipper, like, have, like, the purple, purple, like, armor suit stuff like that. I was about to ask, do you want the purple and green jumpsuit Silver Age Lex, or do you want the the battle so purple and green battlesuit Bronze Age Lex?
01:49:52
Speaker
I think battlesuit. house You've got to keep it purple and green. Yeah, obviously purple and green. just That sounds very him to make it like you know the full battlesuit, but you've got to keep the colors.
01:50:05
Speaker
Especially for leaning into him being unhinged. which is what I want, personally. It's way more fun. You and I both want, like, the classic, like, Legion of Doom in the weird, the weird like, swamp area.
01:50:18
Speaker
and like Living in Darth Vader's helmet? Yep. Basically, yeah. And he's at the front of it, like, we have, like, all, like, the other villains in there. It's like, you know, I'd be happy to have someone say, like someones are like, meanwhile, at the Legion of Doom.
Future of Superman in DCU
01:50:37
Speaker
Well, We have been going for two hours. At some point, we lost Stephanie. oh yeah oh she How'd you lose your wife? I don't know. i'm I'm in a room with the door closed. I'm going to have to go go search for her at at some point.
01:50:51
Speaker
yeah i I loved this movie. I want to go see it again, like, soon. But I don't know that I'll get a chance before... what is going to be the subject of our next episode when we get together and talk at length like this again.
01:51:05
Speaker
Fantastic Four First Steps. Yeah. Yeah. Go to the other one of the big two. Yep, but um yeah, that's got a tough act to follow now.
01:51:19
Speaker
No, like that was such a strong opener for this new incarnation of the DCEU. Like that gives me a lot of hope for everything that's going to continue after this.
01:51:30
Speaker
Same here. yeah like Plus, yeah we're going to get to see our boy Damian Wayne and brave in Brave and the Bold. Murder Child! Murder Child! now they But where is tim No, more importantly, where is our boy Dick Grayson? Where's my son?
01:51:48
Speaker
No, your son. He's my son! we dont We know what they it's going to be Dankwing and... and life action That's not going to be live action.
01:52:02
Speaker
But then again, do we trust them to do our boy justice in live action, Daryl?
01:52:07
Speaker
I don't know. Sometimes I'm not so sure. I don't history of that It's a big ask. And he's a very good boy. Yeah, we they there's there's some definite work that that needs to be done properly there.
01:52:23
Speaker
that that That's going to be the super high bar for me to clear. If they do a good job like portraying my son on the screen, then I'll accept everything else that the DCU puts out forever.
01:52:35
Speaker
Yeah. That's all I need. yeah That's the bar. And if you do it wrong, I'm your enemy for life. hu If you do my boy dirty, I swear.
01:52:46
Speaker
Right. right Well, I believe that brings this episode to a close. Yay. yay And I am looking forward to us going to see Fantastic Four in a couple of weeks and talking about Fantastic Four.
01:53:02
Speaker
And although it's it's not normally done i done to promote another podcast if it's not on your network, but to just going to give a shout out to our friends at the Movie Defenders.
01:53:16
Speaker
Oh, yes, you should. so Their next episode is also going to be Superman.
Listener Interaction and Wrap-up
01:53:22
Speaker
And they're going to have special guest Amy Cass, who is one of the executive producers of Creature Commandos and has been working hand hand with them to discuss Superman.
01:53:35
Speaker
So check out the Movie Defenders episode on Superman that will be coming ah this coming Friday. Or excuse me, not Friday.
01:53:46
Speaker
ah Sunday the 20th. Sunday the 20th? Sunday the 20th. I just sent a i guess i misses if I could be a part of that, but I don't think I will be.
01:53:58
Speaker
Well, yeah, no. They they are taking questions from Patreons. patreon But yeah, we we don't get to go on. Okay. I'll at least try and ask a question.
01:54:12
Speaker
But yeah, give ah give them a listen. They are awesome guys. ah Brev, who was on our Peter David episode with me, is one of the co-hosts. And Brev is going to be back with us next month for ah topic that we mentioned on the Peter David episode.
01:54:29
Speaker
Are you still going to be joining us for that one, Betsy? should be. Yay! So talk about. Yep, I need to catch up on my reading for that one.
01:54:39
Speaker
I know, and I need to actually like put my thoughts in the Google Doc. I don't think I'll be able to join that one. but oh well. We will miss you, Nick. but yeah i I'm trying. I'll let you know. I'll probably be still working on that.
01:54:57
Speaker
All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for listening. And we hope to see you back next time in two weeks for Fantastic Four First Steps.
01:55:09
Speaker
Yay. And this has been Casual Nerdity and thanks again for listening and we'll see you next time. Bye. Bye.
01:55:19
Speaker
This has been Casual Nerdity. We hope you've enjoyed your time with us and look forward to having you back.