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Clone Watch - Episode 23
22 Plays23 days ago
Daryl, Nick, & Lauren head to Onderon & bring Betsy with them. What's the difference between resistance and terrorism? That's at the heart of these episodes and this discussion - sadly topical for current times.
- 00:00 Introduction
- 06:42 A War on Two Fronts
- 29:31 Front Runners
- 1:01:52 The Soft War
- 1:17:20 Tipping Points
To follow along with your viewing, you can find the Clone Wars chronological viewing list at:
https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-clone-wars-chronological-episodeorder
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:10
Speaker
Casual Nerdity is a podcast celebrating and discussing the pop culture that we love. Movies, TVs, comics, books, games, you name it. Ari missed to talk about the good, what worked, and yeah, sometimes what didn't.
00:00:22
Speaker
All with an eye towards building up, not tearing down. Thanks for joining us.
00:00:30
Speaker
Welcome back to Casual Nerdity, everyone. And the 23rd episode of our Clone Watch series...
Meet the Hosts
00:00:43
Speaker
I am Daryl. 23 episodes? Yes, Clone Watch has been 23 episodes and Casual Nerdity has been around for 32.
00:00:57
Speaker
And so, as usual, Daryl. I will be one of your hosts today. i'm Nick. And I'm Lauren.
00:01:07
Speaker
And I'm the problem that can't get rid of. Yes, we have Betsy back. We love having Betsy back. You're the kind problem that we like, Betsy. Aww. One of our frequent viewers has even said that you're one of the favorites.
00:01:23
Speaker
You're one of the fan favorites. So you you have a fan club, Betsy. Yeah, I have a fan club. yeah How many members are in my fan club? Is it negative one?
00:01:36
Speaker
Well, I mean, do my dogs count the one we we know of the one listener, and I think Stephanie and I would count as members of your fan club. Okay, so that's three. Do my dogs count?
00:01:49
Speaker
Arguably, yes. Okay, so that's two more. do your dogs count? Yes. Okay. And the cats count. Good. Okay, now we're getting somewhere.
Monetization Ideas
00:02:01
Speaker
I do know that ever since we started connecting YouTube version of the podcast with my YouTube channel, it has started getting recommended to some of my old subscribers. Oh, that's cool. In particular, somebody that I used to do collabs with found it, and it was like, hey, what's up with this? Oh, wait, you're actually in this thing. okay. So know that I have one fan who is also a close personal friend mine.
00:02:27
Speaker
Oh, and they native fun they it brought it into the Discord and other activities, even the Patreon. Maybe. well i'll tell I'll talk to them about it. Well, Nick, we we don't have a Patreon set up for casual nerdity yet. i was going to say, we have a Patreon. No one told me about that.
00:02:44
Speaker
and And our Discord is just for our planning at this point. But, sure! Future planning! I mean, are you saying that you know people that are going to give us money?
00:02:58
Speaker
Yeah. No, I don't. ah know That would have been nice because it's almost the end of the month and I got bills that I got to pay soon. Understandable. I hear you. I am right there with you.
00:03:09
Speaker
I would also like money. I'm completely frozen in ice right now. All of us are, believe. Yes.
Clone Wars' Real-World Relevance
00:03:14
Speaker
i completely frozen in ice right now are we cost all of us are i believe yes But it in any case, um we are so we've been prepping this episode for a few days. And as we've been prepping this episode to record, you know, the real world really, really didn't need to make some of the themes of the arc we're going to be discussing even more timely than they were.
00:03:44
Speaker
You say that like the real world wasn't already doing that. Oh, I know. I said even more. It didn't have to, but we're talking about things just as applicable here as there are in a galaxy far, far away a long time ago.
00:04:02
Speaker
Right, so this time out, Clone Wars makes mixes a location introduced in what is now Legends Comics with a new original character,
00:04:15
Speaker
Oh, ah yeah, i you was awesome. Like, yup best character ever. A character who would become more prominent in stories later down the timeline and made a little more recognizable in live action, being played by an Oscar winner.
00:04:32
Speaker
Oh, oh, you you were talking about, a yeah, I mean, I guess they're okay or whatever. Okay. And a returning secondary character.
00:04:43
Speaker
Along with our favorite group of disasters, Edrex. i mean, you all are my favorite group of disasters. oh We try.
00:04:58
Speaker
But this time around, we're going to be looking at the Onderon arc. A War on Two Fronts, Season 5, Episode 2. Frontrunners, Season 5, Episode 3. The Soft War, Season 5, Episode 4. And Tipping Points, Season 5, episode 5.
00:05:15
Speaker
And you mentioned the fact that we are... yeah This is the part where you blame me for everything. Because we're now doing the... where i was this is a part where I was about to point out that, yes, we did finish up season 4 in our last Clone Watch episode. And it skipped season 5, episode 1. Because we're watching in chronological order. Which...
00:05:42
Speaker
by this point, the show mostly had gotten into, but not entirely. And so that episode will be coming later. Which, even our bit, is really dumb.
00:05:56
Speaker
I mean, given what that episode is, i understand why that was the first episode of the season. understand the outside. it when get to that arc.
Chronological Viewing Impact
00:06:05
Speaker
I understand the outside. Why would you not just keep the whole thing together? That's just my thought.
00:06:09
Speaker
oh it would be great. And this arc in in general is just a great starting arc. But I understand like why the outside marketing reasons why.
00:06:23
Speaker
Yeah. So... it's it's But it's the first time that like, yeah, I'll agree with you. It didn't have to be this way. It didn't. We didn't. We could have had nice things.
00:06:37
Speaker
Yeah, but you know, we can't have nice things here. But we're starting off with A War on Two Fronts Season 5, Episode 2. The Jedi travel to Onderon to train a group of rebels. Ooh, boy. Yeah.
00:06:51
Speaker
So the Separatists have occupied Onderon, and the Republic sends our favorite dysfunctional Jedi trio and their chaperone Rex to train a group of rebels to retake their planet.
00:07:04
Speaker
Now, Onderon dates back to the 90s Tales of the Jedi comics, so there were some very happy fans when the planet showed up here. anything Nick was one of them.
00:07:19
Speaker
na i think what As soon as they said Onderon, even though that meme didn't exist yet, yeah Nick became the Leonardo DiCaprio pointing meme. Oh, I did. Yeah, i was like... They said the thing.
00:07:34
Speaker
Onderon? Oh! Big jungle? Oh, this so is going to be so cool. Onderon, I know him! or it! And so there's a transmission calling to ask the Jedi for help. And our good friend Lux Bonteri is on that transmission.
00:07:56
Speaker
And they're asking for the Jedi's aid. So naturally, he and Ahsoka make googly eyes at one another. Yeah.
00:08:07
Speaker
There are pockets of rebels on many of these planets that just need guidance. With training and resources, they get attacked soft targets while the Republic continues to engage them on the battlefield.
00:08:18
Speaker
That sounds like terrorism, Anakin. Well, I think of it as an insurgency. To help realign these planets with the Republic. We can divide the Separatist forces and press them on two fronts.
Debating Morality in Warfare
00:08:30
Speaker
A means to an end. Fear cannot be. Stop those who spread terror. The Jedi must. Indeed. What you're suggesting would open up dangerous possibilities.
00:08:41
Speaker
And we must not train terrorists. Rebels. How we conduct war is what distinguishes us from others. Funding rebels to overthrow a legitimate government puts innocent lives at risk.
00:08:53
Speaker
We can minimize collateral damage by using arms that mainly affect droids. The least we can do is help them defend themselves. Test the tactic while we're at it. This could be a great new weapon for us.
00:09:09
Speaker
Are we allowed to talk about how we're supporting those who are the Bujahideen? I thought we said we weren't going to talk about that.
00:09:22
Speaker
I thought we redacted that whole thing. Oh, yeah. Everything's redacted. Yeah. All that's left is the page numbers. Yeah. It's all black Sharpie all the way down. Yep.
00:09:33
Speaker
Every bit of it. Every single bit of it. But yeah, Obi, I'm gonna have to side with Anakin on this. And, you know, I say that as someone who adheres to principles of nonviolence as much as possible. Like, I see where Obi-Wan is coming from, but I think people kind of tend to forget that every revolutionary, especially those who history deems heroes and founders and, you know, whatever else, were considered terrorists while the revolution happens.
00:09:59
Speaker
Because, like, yeah, to Britain circa 1776, George Washington was pretty much a terrorist. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, hell, MLK Day just happened and, you know, look at how he how he was treating his time by the same government that now gives itself a day off of working his name. The debt they Declaration of Independence is basically them signing their death warrant.
00:10:19
Speaker
Mm-hmm. But beyond that, in times like those represented on screen, like, there are just two aphorisms that come to mind for me. Violence is the language of the oppressed and respect existence or expect resistance.
00:10:32
Speaker
Because, yeah, I totally understand the hesitation to like, throw the G.A.R.' 's weight behind the Andoranian rebels or to have the Jedi intervene because of the larger political implications. rebellion of the people in military action by a foreign government you're technically already at war with are not the same thing.
00:10:48
Speaker
And even if both involve violence, the scale of violence would be vastly different. Hence the concern about civilian casualties. But at the same time, I mean, where does that leave the Andoranians? Who, I might add, are specifically reaching out to the Jedi to ask for support, not having outside help forced upon them.
00:11:04
Speaker
Yoda says the Jedi should stop those who spread terror, but it's like, how are we defining terror? Is it the actions of people seeking freedom from institutional repression? Or is it the repression that the institution itself creates? Whose fear is more valid?
00:11:17
Speaker
But I suppose that's a nice thing about fiction. Usually there is kind of a clear right answer. Also, Obi-Wan volunteering to go and responding to Anakin's joking, but definitely not joking at all concern about trust with essentially. No, I 100% trust you're going to do what you said. And that's literally why I'm worried.
00:11:33
Speaker
It's just like so good. It's like another tiny interaction that has like little to no story relevance beyond setting up why Obi is also going to be there, but also just is so much about the team's relationship. Like Obi-Wan is just hyper aware of Anakin's strong internal sense of justice and his personal convictions regarding right and wrong and his overwhelming desire to support and help uplift the oppressed.
00:11:53
Speaker
And like, I got to believe that's one of the things he loves about Anakin, his drive to help people, especially with how that aligns with the whole ethos of the Jedi, I might add. And, you know, at the same time, he knows Anakin's good intentions don't always have the intended or desired impact that sometimes his single-minded pursuit of what's right, or at least what any he believes is right, can kind of blind him to everything around him, including how his actions impact the very people he's trying to support.
00:12:19
Speaker
Like, Obi-Wan knows there's a non-zero chance this could blow up in everyone's faces, possibly literally, if someone isn't there to check Anakin when he acts without thinking about long-term consequences. Which is always... Of course.
00:12:30
Speaker
And like, I could say a lot about this vis-a-vis, like, real life activism because there is a lot to unpack there, but then this podcast would be five hours hours long, so I'll just shut up now because we don't have time for that. Yeah, we're saving that for the Kirby episode.
00:12:42
Speaker
Yep. Right, yes. Yes, the the political commentary of Kirby. Yes, I will get into that someday. I mean hey, there was a point here where I was about to break out joking of actual stuff. Like, okay, so in George Lakey's Spectrum of Allies...
00:12:56
Speaker
Yes. Lauren is not joking, and there is actual credibility to that. Yes. Ooh, I can break out my resources. I've got books for that.
00:13:07
Speaker
You think I'm joking, I'm not.
Character Dynamics and Growth
00:13:09
Speaker
Oh, I believe you. They get to Onderon, and we are introduced to Saw Gerrera and Steela.
00:13:19
Speaker
Well, since I just talked a whole bunch, Handic, you want to say stuff stuff about Saw's ride, since you're also the lore guy?
00:13:26
Speaker
I thank you. Thanks, Spence. And I'm glad I'm allowed to speak. Well, OK, so it
00:13:34
Speaker
Sorry, no. Joking, joking. Thank you very much. Yes. Saw is riding on a rootling, a flying reptavian native to Onderon. These creatures are used by Onderon rebels in this arc and by the Beast Riders Onderon, descendants of Onderon's native culture known for taming the many, many, many powerful and very dangerous beasts on the world.
00:14:04
Speaker
of onerun and those that come from its very dangerous moon dachshund you can say demon moon it's called the demon moon from which much larger and much more dangerous creatures lurk that's from legends well i mean it hasn't been contradicted on screen yet so but exactly Yeah, they didn't say there's not an evil Sith temple there with someone's ghost, and they didn't say there's not a time when, you know, they can fly across. It's a tomb entirely encased in Mandalorian iron. Mm-hmm.
00:14:48
Speaker
And there's a very angry ghost there. Mm-hmm. Ghost? Mm-hmm. m Now, that Saw guy, you know, he's he's certainly a level headed stable fellow. I imagine he'll be a bedrock of the root of the galaxy's future.
00:15:07
Speaker
Yes. so and I definitely came here to talk about. i mean, I will talk about him, but we all know who I'm actually here for. Yes, yes. Because she's so cool. oh yeah. Yeah.
00:15:19
Speaker
Now, Obi-Wan wastes absolutely no time spelling out that they're not there to fight the Andaranians' war for them, but to teach them how best to fight. Foreshadowing is a literary device.
00:15:32
Speaker
And then we get one of my all-time favorite media tropes, because this is definitely a thing that happens in real life all the time when two girls and one guy are in the same general area. Jealousy. we all need it Do we all need to set up now as he as you you speak about this? Yes. Yes, you do.
00:15:48
Speaker
I mean, you say that like this is new information.
00:15:51
Speaker
Because I need to talk about why this bothers me. Because, like, guys, please, can we create drama and narrative tension between two female characters in literally any other way? I am on my fucking knees here.
00:16:03
Speaker
ah and side note, why the jealousy when neither side has observed any indication that the other has any non-platonic interest in Lux? And also, also, Lux-Bond Terry? Really? Really?
00:16:16
Speaker
Really? wait, he could become Punish Lax?
00:16:22
Speaker
Yeah, but that's not for a long ways off anyway. He doesn't have the eyepatch yet. Yeah. fact you know But wait, Betsy, does that mean that the next time we go over to Nick's house, we need to have some sort of, you know, absurd tension over someone?
00:16:39
Speaker
Oh, wait, no, it'd have to be another woman. Oh, wait, there's it could be three of us, because there's you, me, and Stephanie. There we go, we win. Oh, yeah, okay. and so i don't I don't even know how that makes any sense, but okay.
00:16:52
Speaker
Well, as's if we were written by a man. Yeah, yeah. p Yes. if i was written by a man, it would be far worse. My writing would be far worse. Yeah, you're not wrong. It would actually be... You know what? Let's not go there, because... Yeah, let's not even think about that. Anyway...
00:17:08
Speaker
You know, it would depend on who who was doing the writing, and based on the Comic Drake video I just watched yesterday, there there might be some actual decent writers who who wouldn't do you dirty. Oh, no. Yeah, but we're talking about the same one that sets up the love triangle, so. Yeah.
00:17:28
Speaker
Yeah. the The one who sets up the love triangle, I don't i do not i not trust them with that. Does not bode well. that That's fair. and So Rex demonstrates how to take out a Separatist tank, and he's kind of extra about it. It's just a demonstration, and he's flipping around like a Jedi to get the the grenades in there.
00:17:51
Speaker
Further showing how the Jedi, despite their lack of attachments, have had a significant affect on their and the development of their troopers, specifically their commanders under control.
00:18:08
Speaker
Rex wouldn't do this unless he was Anakin's club.
00:18:17
Speaker
The flassey movements, the the in the walking across the barrel.
00:18:25
Speaker
Imagine if this was Commander Cody. Obi-Wan's clone. This would probably be more reflective of him.
00:18:35
Speaker
But I can understand why Rex was chosen, as he's more close to the ARC Trooper program, and or freeform, and better for this mission. But I can see why all of it...
00:18:53
Speaker
why Rex would display this normal, normal disabling of a tank. Mm-hmm. Not all of it. Where it says flair.
00:19:04
Speaker
And also as why Obi-Wan would have to favor-set anyone. Okay, but you say that, but it's the two of 12 that like to do things like spin kick and punch droids in the head.
00:19:19
Speaker
Just putting that out there. True facts. And so Saw seems to not be terribly fond of Lux and calls him a terrible fighter, you know, just right to his face.
00:19:33
Speaker
I mean, it's almost like Lux isn't one. Well, I mean, at least not yet, but we'll get there when we get there. But fortunately, the dick measuring contest doesn't last long because here comes Steela to defuse the situation and get them to stop fighting each other and look at the bigger picture. It's a good thing these rebels have Steela around. She's so smart and strong and cool and level-headed and dedicated and objectively way better than both of them. Oh, did did I say that last part out loud? Oops.
00:19:58
Speaker
Obi-Wan also sees this conflict. Oh, yeah. Yep. And ah Betsy, ah there's a little, you should like clean natural off your mouth.
00:20:09
Speaker
I'm not drooling over her. She's a child. Yes. Yes, also, Obi-Wan sees this contest between the two guys and is concerned about the group's unity.
00:20:23
Speaker
He's not really convinced that this was a good idea yeah And I'm not sure if he ever really becomes convinced as to whether it was really a good idea or not. I like to think he came around. he He comes around at least to a point. Yeah. Because by the end of things, he's and like, yep, we we did good. It's more of a successful operation rather than him being okay with the With the methods. Yeah. Right. From a certain point of view, you could think that he's having literal war flashbacks to his childhood.
00:21:00
Speaker
Mmm, true. was originally aired, that was actually a thing, so... Or still a thing. But yes. And then we have a cutaway to another scene where we see a droid base.
00:21:11
Speaker
And they send out some cool jellyfish spy droids. The rope droids coming. Yep. Mm-hmm. They even have like a unique version of like the boo like classic Imperial Pro-Joy sound. How'd that go again, Nick?
00:21:30
Speaker
moreover Sorry, one more time.
00:21:34
Speaker
Whoa. It's like I'm there. Beautiful. I'm not even good at that. Why do you guys always have to do one?
00:21:46
Speaker
Because why not? I am not good at making droid sounds. Because we know you will when we ask you to repeat it.
00:21:57
Speaker
We live and die by the bit here. You know that. Yes. I didn't realize that was the bit. I'm not good doing droid sounds. like How many times when someone has made a random noise like that, I've asked them to repeat it again multiple times.
00:22:11
Speaker
Yeah, and me too. And it was me. It's not always you. I've done it to Daryl. I've done it to Robert. Robert just refuses. I think you've done it me well. Yeah, I've done it to you too because it's funny. Yes.
00:22:22
Speaker
Oh. If anything, it means I appreciate the noise. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Thanks. In any case, Nick, would you like to bring us to the next part? Yeah, I think you have the next note here, Yep. Yes.
00:22:38
Speaker
But yes, ah we come across droidekas, but that's a bit too formal. in Destroyers, too generic. We here have only one name for these mechanical fellows here.
00:22:56
Speaker
Right, Lauren? It's the Bubble Boys!
00:23:06
Speaker
And so it has to have fanfare now. Yes, it has have fanfare. I am ashamed of myself that it's taken this long for there to be fanfare. yes I'm also ashamed of you.
00:23:20
Speaker
We've got to appreciate the Bubble Boys, the best droids in Star Wars. I need to log off and go rethink my life because Betsy's disappointed in me now. It's okay, you finally rectified it.
00:23:34
Speaker
And Laura and I, we will we will we will not willll be sparing when we bring up the Bubble Boys effect.
00:23:48
Speaker
Yes. So Lux shows Steela how to get the right speed to roll a droid popper inside a droidica's shield. And Ahsoka doesn't look on with any jealousy at all. Nope, nope, none. None whatsoever. Why? Yeah, of course. Now to note, the previous task, which involved destroying a tank, which is what Lux failed at. That's why Saw was butting heads with Lux, because he couldn't do the tank thing.
00:24:17
Speaker
And they both failed at that. They but they both failed. like oh fail that made I think Saw did it reasonably well, or at at least it was Lux specifically who was messing up. yeah But now, in this case, Saw is the one who messes up with putting the droid poppers through the Bubble Boy shield.
00:24:35
Speaker
Yes, exactly. Meanwhile, Lux is the one who does manage to pop the Bubble Boy's bubble more effectively.
00:24:51
Speaker
Yes.
00:24:53
Speaker
Lux is good at bowling, I guess. Yeah. And meanwhile, we have another scene where Saw is trying to get close to Ahsoka, which is further intensifying the jealousy subplot that I don't think anybody here likes that much, but it is thing that happens. It is one of my least favorite tropes. is also part of this love polyhedra, or whatever it is now. Quadrangle. Jealousy quadrangle. Mm-hmm.
00:25:23
Speaker
And oh, oh, the jealousy will ramp up. yeah The jealousy will hop targets. and Who knows, maybe at some point this will be a jealousy platonic solid.
00:25:35
Speaker
Now, essentially, that would solve all our problems if it were platonic. I was going to say, as someone... That group was a like a prolific sipper of characters. Like, yeah, no, this really appealed to me.
00:25:50
Speaker
So the droids find the rebels' base and they attack. And of course, Anakin wants to jump right in and fight with Obi-Wan insisting that they can only protect the rebels, not fight with them.
00:26:03
Speaker
So Anakin's going to wants to Anakin. Yeah, ah you can o b one what's to obbi one but here's the thing. Hey, Obi-Wan, a quick question. How is taking out the droids who are also attacking you, Annie and Ahsoka and Rex, by the way, not protecting the rebels? Like, you know, wouldn't slicing and dicing eliminate the threat that you're here to protect them from?
00:26:26
Speaker
Also, you'd be carving up B1s and a couple B2s, not like people, you know, as in living beings of a sapient species. Or even droids with real personalities ah or any sort of autonomy beyond what the writers can use for comedic effect in children's cartoon.
00:26:41
Speaker
and mean, if we want to get into semantics about droid arts, we can, but, you know, yeah. But whatever, Obi-Wan, whatever, man, you do you. And Steela doesn't like Obi-Wan's...
00:26:54
Speaker
restraint here, and tells him, you taught us to fight, not to run. And then she proceeds to kick ass because she's awesome.
Rebel Tactics and Public Support
00:27:02
Speaker
And I don't just mean her sniping droids left, right, and center, because she's also got that tactical direction going.
00:27:08
Speaker
Yes, and Saw and Lux, they actually managed to work together to take out one of the tanks. They, uh, they, they cash out on that tank-destroying tutorial they experienced earlier.
00:27:19
Speaker
Yeah! Growth! Woo! Development! And they make it through that encounter. Right. And then they bluff their way into the city for an assault. And as they're doing that, Obi-Wan's not doing his whole, we can't fight this fight song and dance.
00:27:41
Speaker
But we do arrive at, and going back to the fact that this is a, coming back from Legends, Tales of Jedi, this is the city of Isis.
00:27:55
Speaker
a the capital city of Onderon with massive walls. Which is why we made factor of like the fact that there's large creatures that can fly, so the wall city was a major factor.
00:28:10
Speaker
So they're heading into Ba Sing Se.
00:28:16
Speaker
don't know. Isis came first. Isis came first and also They're very aware of the war. Very aware of the war and Slightly less fascism?
00:28:29
Speaker
If you can call that pacifism? no No, fascism. Oh, fascism. And they've literally got a monarch that's, you know, leading an occupying army military force, so... i said slightly less, because at least don't acknowledge that there's a war in the walls.
00:28:49
Speaker
I don't think that counts as slightly less.
00:28:53
Speaker
They're just saying the quiet part out loud. They do bluff their way in in what is you kind of a classic RPG move. and I even ah felt like, yeah, they had the pool was good based on the actual Star Wars RPG rules.
00:29:13
Speaker
Yeah, because that's literally how we got into ISIS in our game once. That very much did happen in one of our sessions. It worked! yep And inside the city, the group splits up And we end the episode there. Yeah. And head into Frontrunners Season 5, Episode 3, Ahsoka Monitors the Rebellion on Onderon.
00:29:39
Speaker
So, according to the newsreel, the group's been making strikes for a while inside the city in between these two episodes. Mm-hmm. And the group entered the city to, quote, find recruits, which ends up involving a lot more droid destruction than I expected right off the bat.
00:29:59
Speaker
Like, I kind of expected them to, like, start talking with people and then start destroying droids. But no, they they just go straight for to blowing guys up. Multitasking. Well, and it's worth noting, as I was making my notes about the end of the previous episode, I backed it up a couple of times before I wrote down that they're going in to to make an assault because the dialogue at the end of the previous episode was like bouncing back and forth between the two.
00:30:32
Speaker
you know they're They're talking about, okay, you we're going to go in there. We need to make a big splash. We need to go in and make an assault. And they get in and Obi-Wan's like, okay, go find recruits like we talked about. and it's like, which is it? Why are why are they here?
00:30:47
Speaker
And I had to settle for one of them in the notes. And I kind of settled on the one that the actions show that they were doing, not the most recent words of what they were there for, but Yeah, this this is finding recruits. Yes. Honestly, you could, again, argue from a certain point of view.
00:31:11
Speaker
Accents speak louder than words. Two birds, one stone and all that?
00:31:18
Speaker
But it's like, does that make, but again, for the purpose of the arc, is the actions that they're making making the best catching the most recruits, or is it creating more havoc?
00:31:35
Speaker
Only time will tell. That the question. Yes. But now we finally get an audience with the current king of the planet, Rash, who seems like a super great guy, probably really fun at parties.
00:31:47
Speaker
Oh, yeah. And he doesn't he doesn't look malevolent at all. Oh, no. And yet a Another fitting Star Wars name with a double meaning.
00:32:02
Speaker
One that becomes clear later and one that is quite obvious as is quite the irritant to the people of Andra. Mm-hmm. I might want to put some Preparation H or something on that.
00:32:16
Speaker
Get some ointment. Mm-hmm. He also seems to really like his fruit, which, you know, I'm sure isn't an allusion to any other piece of media where an asshole guy in a crowd sits on a throne chowing down on fruit while violence happens below him.
00:32:29
Speaker
Nope. Oh, wait, this isn't CinemaSins. He's eating an Oh, that wasn't even the reference I was making, just to a specific movie. Besides, he's eating grapes.
00:32:42
Speaker
Yeah. yeah e See? He loves his grapes. got it. Yeah, see, Daryl got it. Lauren gets it.
00:32:51
Speaker
Are you not entertained? Yeah, ah it it sounds like, and, you know, Nick is all also clearly you know not the steward of Gondor.
00:33:04
Speaker
Mm-hmm. See? See, Nick? Although those were tomatoes, not grapes. that True, true. Daryl, this is the wrong this is is wrong podcast.
00:33:14
Speaker
yes And we still have another couple episodes to go through. So you can't bully me out these. Challenge accepted.
00:33:26
Speaker
But we we get this little exchange here with Rash. I only want...
00:33:37
Speaker
Your supporters are responsible for terrorist acts against the Kingdom and our allies. I didn't know that. You've made it quite impossible to stay informed of anything outside my prison chamber.
00:33:51
Speaker
Call off the attacks. I cannot call off what I did not dictate. you're up against is simply the will of the people.
00:34:03
Speaker
up to the king to embrace, bend, or break it. And I am no longer the king. Stop the attacks, or you will atone with your life!
00:34:16
Speaker
It is you that must end the attacks by ending the droid occupation.
00:34:25
Speaker
Yeah, when I say violence is the language of the oppressed, this right here is what I'm talking about. The question isn't like, is violence good or bad? Because that's not what anyone is talking about and totally misses the point. Not to mention it's also just like a really fucking boring question. But they're like, the actual question is, why are the rebels using violence as their tactic?
00:34:44
Speaker
More often than not, it's because the powers that be have refused to listen to anything else so far. Like, we don't know what other tactics the Andorani and rebels may have tried before this, but knowing Lux and given his mention of politics in the previous episode, I find it hard to believe that they hadn't already tried diplomacy.
00:35:00
Speaker
Plus, Resch doesn't really strike me as the type who would even bother hearing them out for like a second. Like, we don't know whether not they just to offer is like they did reach out to a outside government, the Republic, which they weren't a part of to try and hopefully do diplomatic first yeah like even besides that though we don't know whether or not they tried any kind of like non-violent direct action but like what we do know is that the city is under occupation by a droid army and we know that that army has zero qualms about shooting it to kill like i don't think it's too much of a stretch imagine a group of protesters sorry were gonna say something nick
00:35:46
Speaker
No, that was me just saying, oof, ah current events. Yeah, yeah. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine a group of like blaster-toning B1s descending upon a group of protesters with weapons already firing. like I can only speculate here, but my guess is Rash didn't give a shit about the rebels or find them anything more than like maybe a mild annoyance until they started firing back.
00:36:10
Speaker
Because the previous King Dendup has it exactly right when he tells Rash the onus is on him as the current King to stop the violence and that the only way he can do that is to use his right occupation. He is not voiced nor had the ability to voice a violent aggression.
00:36:27
Speaker
The rebels are a natural response to King Rash's occupation with the Separatist backing.
00:36:38
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And like also Rash should probably get the fuck out because he's an asshole and only took the throne from Dendup in the first place because the separatists made like the CIA in a Latin American country and back to coup to support their puppet of choice. That's it.
00:36:51
Speaker
Like, even if the people agreed with Dend-Up's original decision to remain neutral and not take a side in the war, like, even if they really wanted to pick a side, they never signed up specifically for military occupation.
00:37:02
Speaker
The Separatists and, by extension, Rush are the aggressors. They chose to invade and occupy Onderon. The Rebels just want for everyone to be able to live their fucking lives without fear of ending up on the wrong side of a blaster for simply existing.
00:37:14
Speaker
That's all they're asking for. and if no one else is gonna listen unless they start blowing shit up, like... I don't know what they expected. They played a silly game. They won a silly prize.
00:37:26
Speaker
They started with outsiders. They came back into the city prepared to fight against a military, not not a not the, again, like the current sort of on or on guard is still loyal to the king, but they are not actively patrolling or doing anything to harm the citizenry.
00:37:50
Speaker
Mm-hmm. The Onderon rebels are fighting against the occupation force. And speaking of the Onderon rebels, after they've, you know, wreaked a little bit of havoc, everyone set heads back to their in-city hideout to relax and celebrate a job well done.
00:38:09
Speaker
Your success will not go unnoticed. I agree, but we need to be mindful of public perception. What was your observation, Padawan? The people were fearful, Master.
00:38:21
Speaker
Indeed. Judging from the reactions I saw today, I'm afraid they will mistake your intentions. We need to do more damage. A few dozen broken-down droids will do little to free Onderon. The people need to believe we can succeed. Without their support, our efforts are meaningless. If they're afraid, they won't support us.
00:38:40
Speaker
We need to assure them of our intentions. I don't understand. Why are they afraid? They're afraid we're not strong enough to win. We need to earn their trust. You'll have plenty of time to earn their trust.
00:38:52
Speaker
All of you are going to be very busy.
00:38:56
Speaker
Betsy, we discussed this as our indie. We ran a campaign on Onderon during a separate time period in the era and had similar issues like trying to create a resistance on Onderon.
00:39:16
Speaker
And there's similar things to what they were discussing here. Yeah, that's true. I remember stopping some children with suicide bomb vests by picking them up and flying away with a jetpack.
00:39:28
Speaker
But notice- Dropping those vests on a sentient suit of armor. It was a whole thing. But notice how none of them even stops to consider that the people are afraid because there's violence on the streets.
00:39:42
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I mean, see my earlier wall of text, which for people listening was a long rant about rebellion and violence and all that. I will point out, though, that we did see some different reactions to different tactics.
00:39:56
Speaker
Like Lux hitting a group of B1s who I want to point out had already raised their blasters before they had any clue Lux at all were even in the city at that point. With the droid popper just about some shocked gasps.
00:40:07
Speaker
what was Was Lux trying to help a woman up that the battle droids had knocked down? I'm sorry. yeah that That was just a random situation that yeah I was asking about. Yeah, just a completely random one. Yes, yes, of course.
00:40:24
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Like when he hit them with the droid popper, we got like some stopped gasps and exclamations of surprise and confusion. But for the most part, people just kind of stayed where they were and looked on. So the reaction was pretty minimal.
00:40:37
Speaker
Meanwhile, said it it did go through like how Annika was saying, like we do minimal amount of damage, but that also has its own effect on the quote unquote revolution.
00:40:53
Speaker
Yeah, but I mean, meanwhile, Saws sees someone getting harassed by a pair of droids and jumps in blasters blazing when the droids in question are standing barely a foot away from the person he's trying to protect. Like, he takes that one right next to the guy's head and then jumps out into the open amongst a group of civilians to shoot the other one.
00:41:09
Speaker
But, you know, not before the droid levels their blaster into the group. And that's when people actually run away screaming. Like a live fire exchange is definitely not the same thing as what's more or less a short range EMP blast.
00:41:21
Speaker
You can also compare that to Stila, who we see shooting droids in the street, because if you look around at the street she's on or above technically because she's on a roof, the whole place is deserted.
00:41:31
Speaker
The only people in Dejurum getting shot at at that point are the rebels, the ones who actually signed up for that. And I think that makes an important difference. It sends different messages, but they are all the same parts of the same revolution, but they're sending different messages.
00:41:48
Speaker
targeting Targeting individual military targets like Stila saw taking taking more heroic roles and And ah Lux doing it somewhat heroic role, but also not doing anything heavy damage.
00:42:09
Speaker
Yeah, it's like I probably sound like a broken record when I talk about the place of violence and resisting oppression. So I'm going to do my best to keep this part brief. Ha ha ha ha ha. Yeah, I typed that before I wrote the rest. But this dialogue does circle back on the council's discussion about like fear at the beginning of the episode, but now in a much more very like tangible way. Like, I think Stila and Lux and, I guess, kind of saw are half right in saying that people are afraid the Rebels can't win. But the other piece of that fear, like kind of what Daryl mentioned, and probably the larger piece, is the aftermath.
00:42:42
Speaker
Like, the Rebels at this point aren't thinking too hard about what would happen if they lost the Because they're focused on the goal right in front of them and what they're trying to achieve. And honestly, there probably isn't much for them to s think about think about since they know they'll just end up in prison and or executed if they lose. But the rest of Andoran doesn't have that luxury because ultimately they're the ones that will have to face that inevitable fallout on the daily.
00:43:04
Speaker
A lot of the people rolled over it rather just like eat their heads down and stay silent out of the belief that it will keep them safe. And right now, that's where a lot of Onderon is at. Like the rebels need to show they can win. Yes, but more than that, they need to prove that they can live up to their ideals and protect the lives and the rights of the people they're fighting for in the first place.
00:43:21
Speaker
Yeah, that was a big part of like, again, not to toot my own horn. And like this part of my last one saying is like that was a major part of the Onderon campaign that we ran. hmm.
00:43:33
Speaker
To make sure that we sort of righted the wrongs, like we we took on the roles, and your characters took on the roles and made certain that they they did liberate Onderon.
00:43:46
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And the only things we shot or blew up were bad guys and ships and that suit of armor. Well, that was Kyle, but you know.
00:43:58
Speaker
But it's like you guys, did we did make sure that we had insurgency. We did the right things and made sure that no civilians were at all hurt. And that something I very much valued in all of your characters in in creating that arc.
00:44:14
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think it was fun that we got to play into that. Mm-hmm. But going back to the episode, the other thing I- So I was just saying that that's why you understand this arc as well.
00:44:25
Speaker
Yeah. you you you Because you went into it with that that thought process. Mm-hmm. But like the other thing I want to talk about here is Saw and Steela because I think the scene kind of like really lays it all out. Like, Saw's first instinct is to do more damage because to him, the means and the message are one and the same. The Underawn rebels came together to free the people of the planet, but Saw's kind of honestly lost the plot a little bit because that freedom kind of seems like a secondary goal of best to him. Like, he wants to fight off the droids and to get the occupying force off the planet by destroying them so completely they have no choice but to give up and leave. He wants to take power back, but he's forgetting that an integral part of power is freedom.
00:45:06
Speaker
Stila, on the other hand, does a better job staying on message and recognizes that their actions mean nothing if they don't have community support to back them up. Like destruction, it's not a goal, it's a means to an end. And that end isn't just for their group. She remembers who they're fighting for, not just what, who.
00:45:21
Speaker
And that's part of what makes her leadership style so effective. You know, don't want to say anything about Saw, but I'll let Daryl go first. I was just going to say interesting insight into Saw there because it's almost like his behavior here. River Song might have something to say about. Foreshadowing is a literary device.
Revolutionary Mindsets: Saw vs. Steela
00:45:41
Speaker
Wait, that was Harris Balmer guy.
00:45:43
Speaker
Yeah, that wasn't that wasn't ah River Song. River Song would say. Spoilers. Hey, they're both right. yeah They're both right. Yes, yes, they are. But I say like.
00:45:56
Speaker
So doesn't see the end of the revolution. He sees a means to an end.
00:46:04
Speaker
Yep. I mean, again... Foreshadowing is a literary device. Mm-hmm. But it's like, he's willing to put everything in front of himself for this revolution, for the freedom of Vanderon, for freedom as a concept.
00:46:23
Speaker
Foreshadowing is a literary device... Yep. I can keep mashing that button as many times as we say the same thing over and over about Saw. Yep, because at this point in, you know, pretty much far into the future, he's convinced that blowing things up is praxis in and of itself.
00:46:43
Speaker
and Basically, whenever we have a Saw in an episode, so you you can just have that You're right there. know we have it anyway. Yes. Yeah.
00:46:53
Speaker
I went and found the clip and gave Geralt the timestamps. Oh, yeah we love it I believe it's like part part of standard communication between with with you and Steph now.
00:47:05
Speaker
Mm-hmm. But so Obi-Wan and Anakin skedaddle back to Coruscant because, well, we've we've taught them. they They've started blowing stuff up.
00:47:16
Speaker
So it's time for us to leave now. and But in the meantime, to observe... We have other war crimes to do. Of course. We have other war crimes to commit, so we are leaving the child soldier, I mean Anakin, Ahsoka, behind to observe. We are leaving Ahsoka behind. I forgot, they even take Rex, which was also a weird choice.
00:47:37
Speaker
Hey, it'll be fine. I mean, Obi-Wan had the same thing happen to him when he was 13, and look how he turned out. Great. Now we don't talk about Maledon.
00:47:50
Speaker
So the rebels decide that they need to go big and take out. Or go home. Well, they are home. Yeah, that's the whole point. They to big.
00:48:02
Speaker
that That's why they're doing all of this because they are home. But the separatists are there too. So they decide they need to go big and take out the droid's power source.
00:48:13
Speaker
Yes, and in order to do that, they're going to need info on the the environment, on the the building. And so they ah they steal droid's head in order to get its information.
00:48:27
Speaker
However, in doing so, they do get caught. And this leads Bubble Boy! Yeah!
00:48:41
Speaker
Yep. And we get a nice bonding moment between Ahsoka and Steela after Steela takes out a droideka. Sea riders, it's that easy. It's that easy. can't believe you used the wrong name for them.
00:48:54
Speaker
Oh, Nice bonding moment between Ahsoka and Steela after Steela takes out Bubble Boys. Yes, yes. I'm fixing it in the Google Doc. Yes. I'm seeing it right now. there. I fixed it. yeah Very good. Very good.
00:49:13
Speaker
Yes, and now it's tank time. And they're they're really making the most of the tutorial levels from the previous episode. Mm-hmm. Yeah, all the tutorials they went through, they're relevant here now. It's it's ah it's almost like poetry. It rhymes. Yeah.
00:49:29
Speaker
I wasn't ready for that one. like poetry so that they run yeah there There we go. You should always be ready for that one. i mean, it it's loaded up. I wasn't ready for it in that moment. Sorry. yeah I had a zinc attack on Daryl. Honestly, dad yeah Good appreciation for that. you actually You actually did cast it up on Nero. Impressive. Most impressive.
00:49:53
Speaker
Now that they have the plans from the droid's head and they have their very own tank for at least a limited period of time, the group attacks the power plants.
00:50:04
Speaker
And whenever... So at first, they they aren't using the tank in the initial attack. But then they arrive with their stolen tank, leading a B1 to shout, look, we have reinforcements! Before, you know, getting completely annihilated.
00:50:18
Speaker
Yeah, the B1's over the bat. It runs over it, which is actually kind of hilarious. Yes, it's beautiful. it's in it's It's a hover tank going to slowly... Yes.
00:50:31
Speaker
Slowly roll it over, it's like... But then they bring out the Flippy Droids! BX Dramandos. Oh, you think that sound effect for that? Wait, we don't have one yet. Do you need a separate thing for the BX Droids? The Flippy Droids are cool, but they're not as cool as the Bubble Boys. Oh, okay.
00:50:54
Speaker
That's fair until we find a better sound effect. Mm-hmm. Yes. Oh, no, I i did that because... No, he said Bubble Boys. Yeah.
00:51:05
Speaker
Did you not hear her say Bubble Boy?
00:51:10
Speaker
The Flippy Droids can get their own sound effect later. Anyway, okay. they find they the extraoids They do succeed, and the power generator is out, but apparently the king is not concerned.
00:51:24
Speaker
Nope. And after their successful mission, Steela hugs Lux in celebration, and Ahsoka certainly doesn't shoot a jealous glare their way. Nope, not at all. So lacking in jealousy, even, that Anakin doesn't notice a thing over the holotransmission. We must celebrate.
00:51:49
Speaker
With pleasure. Come here, you handsome senator. Steela is a born leadman. And quite courageous, I am. Ahsoka, remember what I told you about staying focused.
00:52:03
Speaker
I can't help it, Master. I understand. you do? I do. But try to remember. Always put purpose ahead of your feelings. Yeah, because Anakin is the master of not getting jealous and putting focus before feelings. He can totally handle it if Padme talks to another man for five seconds. It would never get into a knockdown, draw out, crawl over it.
00:52:27
Speaker
Nope. Nothing to see here. Never. Never, ever. I do like how you just called that clip Anakin notices because yeah. Yeah. Also, this because it's Anakin notices, but this was like It's also out the most Anakin being like, hey, Snips, your emotions.
00:52:50
Speaker
Do you want to talk about those?
00:52:56
Speaker
What? I have feelings. We know Anakin. I'm sad. we know Anakin. I may have feelings about... they' to like I just totally have a thing for Senator Amidala. We know Anakin. Everyone in their dog knows.
00:53:16
Speaker
Hey Snips, it's like, it's okay if you want to like, you know, talk about like feelings for people. Cause I can tell that you have feelings.
00:53:26
Speaker
For people. Because Anakin is also really good at talking about his feelings. I mean, he learned from the best. Mr. Obi-Wan, I'm going to keep all my feelings right here in a little box. I do love the fact that Obi-Wan's still in the call as well as like, hey.
00:53:41
Speaker
Hey, Snips, if you ah if want to talk about like feelings. like Well, yeah, you can't tell me that's not part of why Anakin said it because Obi-Wan was standing right there and he's like, shit, shit, I have to say something. What would he say to me? Oh, yeah, yeah I got this.
00:53:56
Speaker
Hey, feelings, ah I have them. want to mean, no, don't. don't have them. Because I can tell you have feelings. Feelings don't exist. I've never had a feeling in my entire life, right?
00:54:07
Speaker
But if you want to, we could chat about them as Mazda and Francis, because I'm not saying you have feelings. Or that I have feelings. Not enough for you. They're a thing that can exist in the world, right right? But you're having feelings for this situation that we're having in this moment.
00:54:28
Speaker
You're doing great, kid. Meanwhile, Obi-Wan's like, Anakin, you... Both you should talk to me at some point.
00:54:39
Speaker
Yeah, they're not going to do that. They're never going to do that. Nope. That would be too healthy.
00:54:46
Speaker
I mean, what next? They're going to go to therapy? Please, there's no therapy in space.
00:54:52
Speaker
I mean, we we know that, you know, according to George Lucas, there's not even underwear in space. yeah there is certainly there is certainly not therapy in space. At least not until we get to Alphabet's Quadrant and then therapy is torture droids.
00:55:07
Speaker
Right. Which I totally kind of love. A very Star Wars thing to do. Yes. But no, I'm also, like, this whole time just still over here, like, really Ahsoka?
00:55:21
Speaker
Really? Lux Bonteri. Honey, sweetie, my darling daughter, please, you can do so much better. I better? I mean, Stila, she's right there. He's not even punished.
00:55:35
Speaker
Punished Lex. Yeah, like, why is she even looking at Lux? don't even have an eye pass yet. Yeah. Like, why the hell is she even looking at Lux when Stila is right fucking there?
00:55:47
Speaker
and like, I know Lux has grown since the last time Ahsoka saw him, and I know they have a shared history and whatever, but I just... Seriously? Just Lux? Come on, Lauren, back me up on this.
00:55:57
Speaker
Yes, Yuri is superior to all other forms of shipping. ah the You know, the hetero activities should not even be remotely considered, especially within this context. I have not spoken firmly on this, but at the time that i watched this series,
00:56:16
Speaker
I did have a ship, and it was Yuri. Exactly. It was... Baris Hedasoka. Understandable. That's another one of my ships. We're on the same page.
00:56:29
Speaker
This is a good one. I can accept this. because Because Nick, that that is that is a wholly original ship that no one out there in the world ever had.
00:56:41
Speaker
This when it was happening. so like i It was during the time that it was happening. i I know, Nick. I'm being sarcastic. Have told you guys about my ace-lesbian Ahsoka agenda? Because I have an ace-lesbian Ahsoka agenda. put that out there. believe it.
00:56:55
Speaker
I can believe that, yeah. Yes, on a personal level, historically, I was not into shipping at all. I had no interest in shipping whatsoever until I learned about Yuri.
00:57:07
Speaker
And that changed everything. I'm sure it did. Honestly, like, I... I was in the shipping as very young, so that's how was like, okay, with like Yuri gary and all types of shipping.
00:57:24
Speaker
Yeah, I was in the shipping circles probably way earlier than I should have been. Oops. It was it was more before i knew it's more before I knew what my sexuality or preferences were. it's like i was like, oh, I like these characters together.
00:57:40
Speaker
e In a romantic sense. sometimes sometimes for them to fuck nasty. Perhaps so. Am I wrong? Am I wrong? You're not.
00:57:54
Speaker
You're not, but he didn't have the same.
00:57:57
Speaker
ah I mean, how do you want me to put it? Making sweet love to each other? Sometimes it's not romantic. It's just sexual. Partaking in into in intercourse. There we go. Yeah. How clinical do want me to be about it?
00:58:09
Speaker
but Betsy, I don't think Nick has seen heated rivalry yet. No, no, he has not.
00:58:17
Speaker
Partaking in reproductive activities. Or go full Sheldon. Having coitus. That's reoriented.
00:58:30
Speaker
I stand by what I said. think Proud trial to say that. Dooku is going to send more forces and a tactical droid general.
00:58:43
Speaker
Not just any tactical droid, General. He's got a name, man. Oh no. Oh no, not a name.
00:58:55
Speaker
Anything but that. It's... You're also super fancy chassis.
00:59:02
Speaker
The super tactical droid, General Kalani. du Dun, dun, dun. The first appearance of a super tactical droid.
00:59:16
Speaker
It's actually pretty cool. and and they are really cool looking. We've seen tactical droids before. They haven't had names or like they've had personalities, but this is the first one that has a name.
00:59:32
Speaker
And a title, like a rank.
00:59:35
Speaker
And so the Rebels elect Stila as their leader and Saw storms off in a huff, upset about it, which is when we learn that Stila is his sister.
00:59:47
Speaker
Ooh. Bum, bum, bum! so So just like the original trilogy, the yeah the the love triangle was weird. Nobody was kissing their sister. This is not the same.
01:00:02
Speaker
Yes, this is true. Saw wasn't like pining over Steela.
01:00:10
Speaker
And they were also aware they were siblings the whole time. Yeah. It wasn't a retcon this time around. Yeah, there was no infest we had. But Ahsoka assumed it.
01:00:22
Speaker
Did she? thought she did. If anything, I felt like Ahsoka heard that and she was like, oh, that explains so much about why you guys are like that with each other. Yeah.
01:00:34
Speaker
I don't think that there's any point where Ahsoka has really any interest in him at all. It's more is like the to the how the love triangle is presented to the audience.
01:00:48
Speaker
a yeah now i don't I don't really get that. I never really got any dynamic between those two. We will accept Nick's reading of the episode and simply say that we did not read the episode that same way.
01:01:04
Speaker
a Everyone could have their own headcanons. Yes. and and Fuck knows have a million of them. Next goes to you the the standard you know Lucas... ah Which I guess is fair, given i say that we are playing in the Lucas sandbox. Yes, yes.
01:01:26
Speaker
I'll admit that probably didn't articulate it properly.
01:01:31
Speaker
Nah, we were bullying you again. ah And in the process, also bullying George Lucas. Yes. Which is much more important. Right. Well, that's hard to forlay him. He has so much money now. But that's why you have to do it. Mm-hmm. It's ethical.
01:01:51
Speaker
And that takes us into the soft war, excuse me, season five, episode four, an unexpected ally steps forward to help the rebel cause.
01:02:03
Speaker
And we start off with some undercover Ahsoka. And she she drops a little bit of ah a droid popper to ah destroy a couple droid groups. Yep, and the rebels make a big public display of stopping Separatist tanks, followed by Stila making a speech encouraging citizens to rise up.
01:02:26
Speaker
Yep, see, this is why Stila was elected leader. Like, my own personal biases about how cool and awesome she is aside, but for the record, she is really cool and awesome. She understands how changing hearts and minds and gaining some public public support is just as, if not in some ways, more important than actually blowing up droids.
01:02:42
Speaker
Because, I mean, like, sure, the blowing up part might help show that the rebels have a chance of winning, but whether or not they can succeed is only half the battle. Because, again, that success is the sex- that success in the me- is the means, not the end.
01:02:55
Speaker
And when it comes to public opinion, the end, the why behind them doing any of this in the first place is what connects with people. Like before you show people how or what to fight or, you know, even that they can fight at all, and you have to give them something to fight for.
01:03:09
Speaker
To me, that's where Stila succeeds, where Sog kind of just falls a little short. And then we screenwave to Rush complaining about the terrorists now being worse than just a nuisance because, you know, that's what terrorists are, a mild inconvenience.
01:03:24
Speaker
I bet he accuses the palace refresher of terrorism when he used up all the hot water mid-shower. And then he says a line that re reminds me this episode aired in 2012, one year after the Iraq war ended.
01:03:35
Speaker
Let's see if refusing to negotiate with terrorists works better for him than it did for a certain other government. yeah and Hey, hey, hey. Oh wait, should play the foreshadowing line here?
01:03:46
Speaker
foreshadowing is a literary device. Yeah, that's right. Also got to remind everyone that Star Wars is just a fun franchise for everybody. is There's no such thing as politics. There's no politics in art at all.
01:04:00
Speaker
What are you talking about? Not at all. Nothing is political. So Saw storms off again as the rebels plan to rescue the king before he can be executed.
01:04:13
Speaker
Steela's like, this isn't about you, Saw! And Saw's response is, more or less, no, it's about how cool and badass I am! Like, side note, the first two episodes were about jealousy between Ahsoka and Steela because stupid dumb love triangles. But now it's Saw who's looking focused because of his jealousy of Steela.
01:04:32
Speaker
yeah but the love is trying to, they rhyme. But the love triangle isn't over yet because we have no Lux being kind of a weirdo around Steela for a scene. I mean, Lux is just a weirdo, period. Yeah, Lux isn't capable of being normal around women in general, I've noticed.
01:04:48
Speaker
Steela is not going to do this. i did did Did I not portray him correctly in our campaign? Oh, no, you very much did. He was 100% incapable of being normal around women, myself and Ahsoka included.
01:05:01
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Meanwhile, Ahsoka is having a discussion, a Jedi discussion, and she talks about how ah she feels responsible for the group.
01:05:13
Speaker
And how she feels like she needs to be more involved. We'll see how that plays out later. And so Saw tries to free King Dendup and tries to do it himself.
01:05:30
Speaker
And they end up trapped. Wow, one way shields. A clever trap. ah Good thing that no one ever uses that ever again. Never.
01:05:49
Speaker
Yeah, no, never. Is this foreshadowing for something one of you is going to do in a campaign? Heaven forbid. Maybe. That's what I thought.
01:06:01
Speaker
Anyway. anyway yeah on the bright side saw convinces end up to join their cause and how does he do it by taking a page from his sister and actually talking to endup like meeting him where he's at and giving further credence to their cause by emphasizing the support they've gained that their actions aren't just random chaos but a movement And the most convincing piece of all, they have Jedi backing.
01:06:24
Speaker
It's kind of interesting though, because I imagine from Saw's perspective, the Jedi represent like a fighting force. That if the Jedi back the Rebels, then so do like a whole bunch of lightsabers. But I don't think that's why Jedi involvement convinces Dend-Up.
01:06:37
Speaker
Like maybe I'm reading into things a little bit, but you know, Dend-Up is an older man, someone who's been involved in Onderon's political scene his entire life. including when the planet allied and worked with the Republic, and whose memory probably stretches back a good number of decades. Like, I bet when he thinks of the Jedi, he doesn't see warriors, he sees diplomats and negotiators, people who come to resolve conflicts instead of forcibly ending them, because he grew up with them as the Jedi once were, like as the Jedi were more or less supposed to be.
01:07:04
Speaker
Jedi backing doesn't mean GAR backing. It means like a level of legitimacy. It means the rebels cause is worthy of supporting and that their actions are a part of, for a lack of a better way to say it, a sort of like greater good.
01:07:16
Speaker
Like personally, I think that above all is what helps get deadnip on board. And I want to actually, uh, actually back you up on that because that comes from a lessons perspective there's a long history of the of the jedi and their intervention but also support of andron so that something like the king of honor their undenum would be able to see the jedi who they are defenders of peace and truth yeah those were like the jedi he grew up with
01:07:52
Speaker
what his entire like reign is built on. Yes. There's, there's stuff nothing in the Canon. Canon decries anything that happens, happens from legends. So the Jedi are heroes and they're here to defend them, but he's also not go also. They defend the people.
01:08:16
Speaker
So he's willing to say like, if if the people are being defended by the Jedi, he will support that, but he will not be like propped up by the Jedi. So that is a very, very much a, it's a subtle, but so, and may not be intentional, Legends Return, but also how, in forms like,
Ethical Implications of Rebellion
01:08:38
Speaker
if he believes of the Jedi believe in, and also ties into like, the arc of what, what the Jedi should be.
01:08:48
Speaker
And so then, Saw, held captive, has a little conversation with the general of the Andranian forces.
01:08:58
Speaker
The separatists have very little compassion or patience for things that stand in their way.
01:09:05
Speaker
We have a duty to protect what's ours, general. A duty once entrusted to you. I thought you depleted your arrogance with Kalani. Hmm.
01:09:16
Speaker
It replenishes every hour.
01:09:19
Speaker
King Rash is the crowned head of Onderon. What's yours is his, and he will do with it as he pleases. Dendup is the true king. Are you following his orders?
01:09:31
Speaker
We take orders from no one. Aligning yourself with the past does not bode well for your future. share the same future. We can sit here as free men or servants of the separatists.
01:09:43
Speaker
I am free. Well, you have chosen to become terrorist. I'm not a terrorist. I'm a patriot. And resistance is not terrorism. Yeah, put that last line on a t-shirt.
01:09:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yes. Will never not be relevant. I need to send that to Alex and Molly of Star Wars Explained because they opened a merch store finally.
01:10:08
Speaker
o yeah i got it i got a t-shirt with logo that I'm looking forward to to wearing prominently. Lovely. i I messaged them on Blue Sky after...
01:10:23
Speaker
no particular events yesterday as we record this episode and um told them if if you guys don't add a ah shirt to your merch store that says fight the empire I'm gonna make one and add to ours who and and Alex gave me a thumbs up reaction okay but can we have it written in a way that it can also somehow like from a certain angle say fuck the empire is there a way to do that It's really hard to find a font that would give that optical illusion. What ah what if it's an Arabis?
01:10:59
Speaker
Well, I want everybody to be able to read it, not just the nerds. No.
01:11:06
Speaker
It's a Star Wars shirt, and it's for freedom. Which is why I want everyone to be able to read it. We can put that on the back. Sure. but no Anyway, back on track.
01:11:20
Speaker
um Like for all his bravado and preference for like big, loud, violent action, I think right here we see that like at least on some level, Saw does get it. We hear that when he tells the general that whatever the future brings, all of them have to live with it no matter where their allegiances lie right now.
01:11:38
Speaker
the General talks about the future, but honestly he's refusing to look past the immediate to the long term. Because if life under the separatist heel is really the future he wants, then I'm what's on this one. Because I don't think it is, even if the General has convinced himself otherwise.
01:11:53
Speaker
He also says out loud the thing that I've been talking about this whole time, that I want on a t-shirt. Resistance isn't terrorism. Or at least it doesn't have to be. i mean, terrorism itself is a word that can change definition depending on who uses it and who has the power to assign the label. And from where the people of Andoraz stand, the only terror is that of the Separatists and their puppets.
01:12:14
Speaker
Mm-hmm. True facts. Beautiful. Yep. you call it You call your freedom, we call your freedom fighters, we call them terrorists. It's the power of language.
01:12:29
Speaker
So yes. matter It's matter who has control to say which to label which is which. They say history is written by the victors as well. But it's the people who actually define those things. Mm-hmm.
01:12:46
Speaker
So then, the day arrives, and the the true king is to be executed. Ahsoka is told to sit out on this mission.
01:12:58
Speaker
That the resistance force is going to have to do this without her.
01:13:04
Speaker
Yep, and they go in, and the rebels are captured, trying to keep free the king and Saw.
01:13:12
Speaker
It's a... it's a They had a good plan, but it did fully reverse on them. And Ahsoka is there in the crowd and she's about to step in when the Andorani in general interrupts, takes the Separatist and installed King, takes Rash hostage and lets them get away.
01:13:36
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Because that is how you shift people across your spectrum of allies. I sure hope Saw learns from this moment and takes these lessons in leadership to heart instead of just blowing things up all the time. Exactly. He will learn that.
01:13:50
Speaker
The Uno-reverse has been Uno-reverse. But unfortunately, honestly, I do feel this is like the weakest part of the arc, which Ahsoka steps in to...
01:14:04
Speaker
yep that may That is when... Yep, Ahsoka steps in at that moment, and the people start to rise up. to To note, to provide context, the reason why Ahsoka steps in is because the general did successfully rescue all of the rebels and the true king, but in doing so, he did essentially lock himself into place. he He had to stay there holding onto the fake king, at which point he was going to be just completely annihilated by all the droids surrounding him.
01:14:34
Speaker
Also, not just that, but remember where he was standing while holding the king. Who was behind him? Yes. In this case, I think she was completely justified in jumping in when she did, because she ah was keeping all those other civilians that just happened to be more or less in the splash zone safe, too.
01:14:51
Speaker
Yes. That's my girl! Oh, yeah. so proud! That's a soak, all right. so yeah, basically, she she rescues the the general, the final mutual who had sacrificed himself.
01:15:04
Speaker
It did sort of, at least in my personal opinion, undercut the cut the strength because it did show the Jedi worthy power behind. i But they were able to regain momentum because of the saving of the King, of the General, and the entirety of the Rebel cell.
01:15:28
Speaker
know i think I think the fact that Ahsoka only comes in to save one individual doesn't really subvert the the overall message. Because you know if she had come in to save everybody, that would have subverted the message.
01:15:43
Speaker
But she only ends up saving one person. and I think fair. that That's enough to say that the Jedi are relevant. She is helping, but she was not the crux of the mission.
01:15:56
Speaker
it was That's fair. Again, I'm going with my, if my yeah like this is a perspective that I've had for couple of years, so I'm happy to hear a separate perspective.
01:16:08
Speaker
Mm-hmm. you know i think it's really, it the the real savior of the mission was Saw and his discussions with the general in the previous scene.
01:16:19
Speaker
That was the real trick. That wouldn't cause even the events to happen. That and the people were already like, you know, starting to get on board, i think it was just like the final push that everyone needed.
01:16:35
Speaker
And I think that kind of ties back into what I said earlier about the way that Dendup took hearing that they had Jedi backing, because I have to imagine a lot of the people in that crowd also have that same memory, like that same you know institutional memory of what the jedi were supposed to be probably what they meant to them and to on the run in the past and everyone grew up into this war nothing has like this this grounded like the legends content and there's plenty of jedi legends the tales of the jedi is heavily involved in in on the run so it's entirely possible like that reignited that uh that spark of what the jedi believed in
01:17:16
Speaker
Beautiful. That then takes us into um the final episode of the arc tipping points, season five, episode five, a revolt embroils on Duran and the rebels must pay a high price. Now, and full disclosure, did most of the show prep for my notes on these episodes, uh, you know,
01:17:44
Speaker
late last week, and then did tipping points this morning, which is January 25th, Sunday. And so, given very current events, the fortune cookie at the beginning really stood out to me.
01:18:04
Speaker
Disobedience is a demand for change. Not sure why that's striking and especially strong chord today, though. Yeah, such a mystery. No particular reason. There's definitely, you know, not anything happening in current day and time that bears any similarity to anything happening in the J.K. Barnes cartoon.
01:18:22
Speaker
So ambiguous. Yeah. You know what the best slash worst part is? It probably won't even matter all that much when someone listens to this because it'll probably still be relevant.
01:18:32
Speaker
I hate it here! ya Uh, everyone here, I am personally wanted to say that I am having a hard time
01:18:50
Speaker
remaining silent about this. Mm-hmm. is... Sorry, Nick, are you having trouble hearing? No. some gay it is
01:19:03
Speaker
sorry nick are you having trouble hearing oh no I feel everyone's
01:19:21
Speaker
I do also you have to hit stop on the clip so that we don't get hit for, you know. but Let's not get a deal by the algorithm. But I will say that, it's like, I am personally just like,
01:19:39
Speaker
not afraid to and acknowledge that we are living in extraordinary times, horrifying times.
01:19:48
Speaker
It happened to coincide with our media that we have today and of our past. king dender So I'm unafraid to say that when we go forward with this podcast, we will speak candidly about what's going on and if it has any and likely will have any any sort of correlation with everything going on in our current day that is not a fluke it is what we need to speak about yes yep so like i've ever avoided in the first place right i know what i'm about
01:20:38
Speaker
we we different but We did pretend about it, but like that it's we are all out there. If you want to call us political, Star Wars is political.
01:20:51
Speaker
So King Dendup sends out a broadcast that the Separatists are lying about the rebels, quote, to further restrict your independence and use deadly force against our people. And boy, it sure is a good thing that this is science fantasy and nothing at all like this could ever happen in the real
Rebels' Success and Emotional Impact
01:21:13
Speaker
world. Eww!
01:21:19
Speaker
But unfortunately we don't live in a science fantasy with cool dangerous beasts. bla bla Blah blah.
01:21:30
Speaker
Yay. But hey, now the Onderon Rebels have the king who was inside the political structure hearing Grash say all of this out loud, backing them and saying what I'm willing to bet most of the people out there already knew, but were just kind of like trying to ignore as long as they could because it's easier that way. like Now the people are face to face with the reality that Rash scapegoating the rebels won't actually save the rest of them in any way. is not And none of them can look away from this truth.
01:21:58
Speaker
They were already getting on board with the Andaran rebels cause, but I feel like it's hitting home that this fight is now theirs too and always has been. Totally not at all relatable.
01:22:10
Speaker
And that is demonstrated by the people starting to turn against the battle droids, rioting in the streets, as Lux puts it. Sure it would be a shame if something like that happened here in the real world.
01:22:24
Speaker
Yeah, that would be a total shame. Yep. By the way, this is definitely not a call to action or an encouragement than anyone listening do that. Nope, no, not at all. Yeah, totally.
01:22:35
Speaker
And so after Dendip agrees with Stila's intention to draw the droids away from the city to reduce risks to the civilians, and he also declares her the leader of all of their forces,
01:22:52
Speaker
She plants a big ol' kiss on Lux. And Ahsoka affectionately socks Lux in the shoulder and we get to wave goodbye with middle fingers raised to the shitty love triangle that nobody asked for.
01:23:04
Speaker
it is a about goddamn time. Okay, but now Stila just needs to realize that she can also do better. you know, in episodes, I talked about so the fact that Saying, Betsy, Stila is a fictional character and she cannot leave the fix in the world.
01:23:23
Speaker
Well, she doesn't need to because that's where my daughter is and, you know, slowly but surely, Stila can become my daughter-in-law. You see how this works? It's part of a longer process. Yes, you know, in previous episodes, I talked about how I wasn't particularly satisfied with the amount of actual Ahsoka narratives that we were getting.
01:23:41
Speaker
i i didn't mean that I wanted her to go through a terrible love triangle. That's not not the type of focus I was really hoping for, honestly. Right? I would personally call it a ah yeah like I'll admit, I don't like it. I would call a poorly done love triangle, but not a- You say that there's such thing as a love triangle that isn't done poorly.
01:24:08
Speaker
Yeah, but there are definitely worse. But I'm happy that this one ended yeah where it did. It came to conclusion. But I would a bit like did it have to exist? Probably no.
01:24:25
Speaker
Definitely no. Like, I've complained about heterosexual nonsense invading things before, but a love triangle is just taking it to a far more annoying degree. there There are much worse there are ah much worse love triangles in Fixin, and this one is, at least ends without the destroying e all the characters.
01:24:46
Speaker
This is true. That's fair. So, the Separatists attack the Rebels, and Ahsoka contacts the Jedi, and the Jedi, wanting to maintain the Republic's plausible deniability, refuse to directly send help.
01:25:04
Speaker
But then Anakin has an idea. An awful idea. Yeah. Anakin has a wonderful, awful idea. when wait, wait, wait, Daryl, Daryl, is Stephanie in the room?
01:25:19
Speaker
No. No. no
01:25:24
Speaker
Well, you could be my new favorite spies. Yeah, I don't think so. Careful, pirate. Pondo, what are you doing here?
01:25:37
Speaker
You should thank me, child. I have brought you a gift from Skywalker and Kenobi. The latest from Sienaar. Rocket launchers? Shoulder fire?
01:25:49
Speaker
Very expensive.
01:26:08
Speaker
mean hey if you need anything shipped off the books who better than hondo some of my best friends are jedi onaka also love i do have some thoughts on this I don't think... I know that Anakin was like, we need Honda.
01:26:24
Speaker
But I feel that Anakin doesn't have the contacts, so he had to go Obi-Wan. yeah I think Obi-Wan has Honda's number.
01:26:36
Speaker
Well, yeah, that was that was a given.
01:26:40
Speaker
I'm sure he'll have a healthy texting relationship. I just find that hilarious. But...
01:26:48
Speaker
Anakin, who has no actual like capital or currency, had to go to Palpatine to be like, Hey, Palpatine, I need some money.
01:27:03
Speaker
Money, please. Then has to go to Obi-Wan and is like, Can I pay your pirate friend? I'm pretty sure Anakin has his number, too.
01:27:17
Speaker
Because I mean, at least this is my opinion, because I feel like Anakin knew that Hondo would be 100% on board with running guns for him, which I kind of love.
01:27:28
Speaker
And I absolutely believe that Hondo only pretended to care about the credits as deeply as he did and would have done it just because he actually does really like the disaster lineage. And you cannot convince me otherwise.
01:27:41
Speaker
Wait, I also love that when he shows up with the goods, Hondo tells Ahsoka that missiles are a gift from both halves of the team, even though he only talked to Anakin because he just knows. Like, Obi-Wan talks a big game, but he definitely co-signed this plan. He just had to make it look like Anakin forged his signature. You know, plausible deniability and all that.
01:28:00
Speaker
But here's here's my caveat. It's like... Like, Hondo was expecting Obi-Wan. It was like, oh... it's you anakin okay but i'm expecting obi-wan because we're friends he thinks anakin's his friend too come on come on yep that's true yeah and ahsoka for that matter well that's kind of weird when once we get into the next arc
01:28:37
Speaker
yeah that's just hondo Yep. And it is Hondo. Yeah. But anyway, before all the fighting gets underway, we have this short little scene where Saw acknowledges that Steela is both the leader they need and the one Onderon deserves, and I love it.
01:28:55
Speaker
You really are the best leader among us. Couldn't be more proud of you, my sister. I learned from the best, big brother. Let's go, General.
01:29:07
Speaker
I just love he goes from like bitter to proud older brother and decides to really respect her skills. And look, there we go. Another jealousy arc resolved. And the Steelintern thanks him for all that he taught her. And I think Saj finally gets that her being better at the leadership side of things doesn't mean she's better than him.
01:29:25
Speaker
She just has skills that he doesn't. And, you know, vice versa. Because that's okay because the Rebellion needs leaders and fighters in equal measure. And thanks to Hondo's timely arrival, the fighter now has a rocket launcher.
01:29:36
Speaker
Just wipe away that here, Betsy. Unfortunately, they're not going to be doing any rocket on any rocket jumping. Nope. so So what you're saying here, Betsy, is that Saw understands that Stila is the the diplomatic, the the diplomacy...
01:29:59
Speaker
half of their duo and he's just the dumb muscle that can fight against things and that's his only way out of things. Foreshadowing is a literary device.
01:30:11
Speaker
Hey, I'm not saying that's what it is. I'm just saying that's the way that he starts to take it after certain events happen.
01:30:18
Speaker
it did There may be more character development to him. Perhaps. Perhaps. And while the rebels now have firepower to take down the gunships, the Separatists attack the base.
01:30:31
Speaker
And Steela saves Dendup and, hey, don't stand so close to that cliffside. Is that a police reference? It was not an intentional police reference, no.
01:30:43
Speaker
And Saw fires a rocket at the last gunship, which then crashes into that same cliffside. Steela pushes Dend up to safety and is hanging from the edge.
01:30:56
Speaker
So Lux tries to save her, but he slips and is saved by Ahsoka using the force and levitating him over to safety. So she starts to lift Steela up with the force, but gets shot by one of the droids, breaking her concentration And Steela falls to her death.
01:31:15
Speaker
This is what happens whenever everybody fails their roles in concession. Yeah. It's fine. I'm fine. i all admit I'm not emotional about this. Not at all. I'm definitely not upset about the Star War killing yet another of my faves. And, you know, I'm definitely not agonizing over what could have been if Steela had survived. Nope. None of that. I'm sure both Saw and Lux will handle Steelers that super well and they're going to be very well-adjusted people and capable leaders and that this definitely won't have any far-reaching impacts on the future of the Star Wars as a whole. It's mine. I do want to say that when I watch this... but say I do want to say this. When I watch this ah on Cartoon Network, I did cry.
01:31:59
Speaker
You know, I'm sure that Saw... It emotional. It it did impact me a lot. It's like, I really liked the characters. Like, again, like there's a lot more significance to this character going forward. But it's like, we can't have nice things.
01:32:19
Speaker
It's Star Wars. We can't have nice things. So we have to cry after them. and you know I'm sure that Saw will definitely not go on to torture anyone for information in ways far worse than he himself was tortured in the last episode. Especially not anyone that might go on to be relevant to stealing any kind of super weapon schematics in particular. Spoilers. Hey, do you think Saw blames himself since it was his shot that sent the gunship Karina under cliff? Yes!
01:32:52
Speaker
Do you think he'll ever process that guilt and grief and learn to forgive him? No! Yeah, that's what thought. Maybe. Maybe he he might, you know huff some fuel. Spoilers.
01:33:06
Speaker
I don't think that's gonna fix it! I'm not saying it's fixing but like... I mean, know... not not to Not to be spoiled and or, but he did keep calling the Rhydonium that he was huffing his sister.
01:33:23
Speaker
e Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah i mean, and we're on our ground where we're sure where things are going.
01:33:42
Speaker
So that's a Don Cannon. Oh, yeah, because, you know, Punish, Lax was super well-adjusted. Mm-hmm. More adjusted than... can't.
01:33:56
Speaker
okay in a cannon. I mean, Lux certainly didn't end up running his own fanatical offshoot of the Rebellion and tell his stepdaughter who worked for the Empire that he'd turn himself in, then use the list of friendly locations to that she gave him where he could turn himself in to make strikes at the Empire.
01:34:23
Speaker
No! What? He would never! Lies! Deception! I wasn't allowed to this one. Don't worry about it. if That's a book. Okay. It's one of the books. Okay.
01:34:37
Speaker
So Rash asks Dooku for reinforcements, which Dooku denies. And he orders the droids to pack up and head someplace that they'll be more useful.
01:34:49
Speaker
And the tactical droid kills Rash. Yeah. Kalani gives zero fucks. Yep. Kalani will, but don't worry, Kalani will return in Avengers Doomsday.
01:35:02
Speaker
You see, this is how you can tell that Kalani is asexual because he doesn't give a fuck. He does not. And so, Andaran is freed, Steela lies in state,
01:35:13
Speaker
Lux is appointed Onderon's center to the Republic, and I'm sure Saw will be absolutely fine. No growing mental in instability or anything, and he too will probably return in Avengers Doomsday.
01:35:28
Speaker
Yeah, nope, no growing mental instability whatsoever. yeah which is funny you should mention, because that leads me into a thought I had. Ahsoka also may... returning Avengers Doomsday.
01:35:41
Speaker
Ooh. But the mental instability part reminded me of a thought I had like way at the beginning when I started watching this arc and I specifically made a note about it here at the end of this Google Doc so I wouldn't forget it.
01:35:54
Speaker
You did. We all saw it. Yeah. Selah is to saw what Obi-Wan is to Anakin. And I'm going to do my best to talk about this without getting into spoilers so bear with me.
01:36:05
Speaker
Like... To me, Saw has so much in common with Anakin. He thrives on action and emotion and you know likes to pretend that consequences aren't a thing when he's got a goal to achieve, especially if that goal involves helping people. But even if his hurt's in the right place, like that refusal to take a step back can bring him down and whatever he was trying to accomplish can just as easily fail while getting people hurt in the process. Like he sees this kind of straight line between where he is and where he wants to go. And he'll do whatever it takes to carve that path for himself and then deal with the fallout later. But only if he has to.
Character Comparisons: Saw and Anakin
01:36:38
Speaker
Stila then was like the level-headed planner who was willing to take that step back, to look at all her options and look beyond like the immediate to what could come after. She was the one who more or less kind of like held Saw back from his worst impulses when his single-minded focus blinded him to everything else. And honestly, Saw needed that. like We saw what happened when he ignored her and went off on his own, almost instantly captured and this close to being executed.
01:37:02
Speaker
Compare that to when he fought alongside Steela, pairing his fighting skills with her quick thinking, and the rebels finally got their planet back from the Separatists. But then Steela dies, and one of the only people that Saw was willing to listen to was gone.
01:37:16
Speaker
Like, those who know what happens to him later know how he ends up, but his last words in this episode, I think, give us, like, a small preview. Because Ahsoka stops to offer her condolences, and his response is just, it's over, let's just leave it at that before walking away.
01:37:32
Speaker
I know Stila like literally just died and he's still grieving, but I still think this is kind of like a good peek into where he goes from here emotionally speaking. Like maybe he thinks of it as letting go, but the problem here is that when it comes to grief, you're not supposed to let go of the person, you're supposed to let go of the grief you feel for them.
01:37:50
Speaker
And in letting me go of Stila, he also lets go of everything he learned from her about leadership, not to mention like one of the few bright spots left in his life. Compare this to what we know happens to Anakin down the line, and that's not a spoiler. This is decades-old information. It's fine.
01:38:03
Speaker
Grief and loss are what push Anakin over the edge, but part of him getting there was losing one of the only people who could and would hold him back from the edge and talk him down before doing something he couldn't take back.
01:38:15
Speaker
and losing Stila saw lost a similar mitigating force, and without the support he needed to check his worst impulses, it's all too easy easy for him to go down a similar path of self-destruction, believing right up till the end that it was the only choice he had.
01:38:28
Speaker
Very nice. yeah i do have poetry times It does, but I do have one final aspect to add on to it. Thank you, Daryl. I do have one more aspect to add on to. Again, i love what you but you said, Batsy. Yes, say thanks. but But I would say he has not given up the war.
01:38:52
Speaker
After losing Sela, he is still a warrior. He is and that will de define him for the rest of his life. Rather than ending the conflict, the fact that he lost someone close to him, he will always fight.
01:39:12
Speaker
for what they believe in and what he believes in and that will be his downfall. A con continual conflict. And that's also a parallel to Anakin who will fight for everything he thinks he believes in everything he loves. But it's like both of them are will be defined by their conflict and how inhuman it makes them.
01:39:43
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yep. It's like they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And, you know, I do fully believe that right up until the end, like both of them were convinced that not only was this the right thing to do, but it was also the only thing that they could.
01:39:57
Speaker
And when they when they finally met their end, they accepted that end. Not a good end. An end to their combat.
01:40:08
Speaker
End to their war. Mm-hmm. But of them, one only one really kind of made peace with everything that happened. The other never got that chance.
01:40:19
Speaker
True. Spoilers. Yeah, which is which? ah You'll have to stay tuned to find out. We'll see. Because we're going to be doing these until we're 90.
01:40:30
Speaker
Until you're 90. You know, unless the world explodes before then, which is honestly significant possibility. Possible? Yeah. Yeah. It could happen.
01:40:41
Speaker
Maybe. oh yeah i't i know I don't want to edit it early. then I'll lose all my friends. go Aw. Aw, you do care. Don't worry, Nick. We'll take you with us.
01:40:56
Speaker
That's right. So Lauren, I know that now now that we have kind of figured out you know what your what your groove is for what you you enjoy about Clone Wars, I know that this arc was not up your alley.
01:41:13
Speaker
not Not particularly. you know, we we like I said earlier, we did get more Ahsoka, but it was mostly her partaking in a love triangle that wasn't really that good. So, like... But that there's lot good storytelling for her.
Droids vs. Clones: A Deeper Look
01:41:32
Speaker
you But notably... these episodes, but there is later. Yes, yes. Notably, the the big standout here was that there was a lot of droid stuff, as y'all might have noticed with me talking about droids a lot. and What? Hi, Nadia.
01:41:47
Speaker
And Kalani. You really like Kalani. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, what i what I really want to focus on here is the fact that, you know, early in this series, I talked about how the way that this show treats droids is very different from the way that it treats basically any other group in the franchise, as far as I can tell, specifically like the battle droids.
01:42:14
Speaker
in that they are very much ah slapstick comedy relief characters. Whereas basically every other group in the series is at least treated with like some degree of like seriousness. like this is Even a stormtrooper is still like, that's a person who's dying. they're not that They might have a comedic moment in their destruction on some occasion, but that's not like a core thing.
01:42:44
Speaker
Especially what you've seen so far. And also, is but there is there is also a clear delineation because there is droid characters, R2-D2 and C-3PO.
01:43:00
Speaker
Yes, yes. Well, I am particularly talking about the combat-based droid characters in this s scenario. But yeah, just wanted to say there's very much say difference between those characters yes and...
01:43:11
Speaker
And the battle droids and stuff. And yes I want to make a note that, you know, it is particularly, it particularly has contrast with the way that clones are treated in the show, because the the battle droids and the clones are very much direct counterparts to each other.
01:43:28
Speaker
And we see... we to a degree We see time and time again that the clones get a lot of emphasis in that they're people and they have feelings and they get to choose.
01:43:42
Speaker
And we see the droids... They also have feelings, but critically, they don't have agency in the way that clones have. We've seen clone defectors before. They they might have programming to make them want to stay in the army, but they still have the capacity to leave. They're still people to like a core degree.
01:44:07
Speaker
And I know that we're going to see elements of subversion of this later on down the line, but yeah you know we' we'll get to that whenever we get to that. But, you know, it's like... It is the fact that the droid, the way that the story treats them is that they have no agency in what they do, and yet they are constantly treated as the butt of the joke in their destruction, their, you know... ah they're they're also treated as, like, pure villains, as if they have the ability to be...
01:44:44
Speaker
villainous yes yes we're supposed to see them as malicious entities when they never had the agency to be so otherwise and i think that's um it's a very interesting way to look at them especially looking at them as counterparts to the clones in that regard Honestly, that is actually something has been brought up in multiple discussions prior to this. Mm-hmm.
01:45:15
Speaker
And I feel like this this series of episodes, it had an exceptionally high amount of droid abuse. I know that we didn't necessarily focus it focus on it that much in our recaps of it.
01:45:27
Speaker
But you didn't make note of that during our watch. Yes, it and that's why in our notes here, I've labeled this droid abuse arc.
01:45:39
Speaker
Because it's just... ah it's It is an interesting way that the series frames these ah droids. And it's ah it's just a bit of a... The only one that's sewn to, like again, like the only quote-unquote sapient sentient droid is the super-tactual droid, Kalani.
01:46:01
Speaker
And he is definitely evil. He's a villain. yeah He's definitely a villain. Mm-hmm. But so yeah, it just just an interesting thing that I noted that I figured I would save to the end. But what you again, like that that's also a good question. That's like...
01:46:19
Speaker
Just because he's portrayed as a bit, do you think that he is a bad guy? Or is he just programmed to be the bad guy? That's something to discuss about. Yes, well, ah I haven't seen Foreshadowing is a literary device. Yes, yes. I haven't seen enough of the super battle droids in particular to really be able to make that kind of decision as of yet. Oh, this comes out here that comes way later.
01:46:40
Speaker
and did there was these hes actually okay there was There was also the droid gunships which were terrifying. Oh yes, we didn't bring them up. yeah there There were entire battleships, it like basically spaceships that were droids. Terrifying. Spoke actual word and commands.
01:47:03
Speaker
And they are treated as like actual threats, but they are by all means they have droid brains. So they are droids. Yes.
01:47:16
Speaker
There's a lot to examine about that. And honestly, that's a perspective that it that's why we very much value having you on the Clone Watch show.
01:47:28
Speaker
Because you bring a fresh perspective to stories that we've just been living with for for years. Because I remember watching that and being like, oh, wow, the droid gunships are terrifying. They're monsters, but they are also...
01:47:45
Speaker
Droids. Yes. Droids that have a droid brain. Emotions and thoughts and such. And they didn't get to choose to be those particular droids.
01:47:57
Speaker
particularly Possibly. like and if if they were given... but So it's what they want to be that. Again, they're they are just as contributed into the combat as they are as the clone troopers. Maybe even more so because the clone troopers, like I said, they have the capacity to defect.
01:48:16
Speaker
Yeah, the druids are built without that capacity, like, you know, as a feature. Which is different thing. Again, like, if you're built as a murder machine...
01:48:29
Speaker
Seeing and programmed to do so, but also with the enough ability to fight, at some point you could develop the ability to be like, do I want to fight?
01:48:42
Speaker
And that's another thing with Star Wars, though, because they regularly wipe the droids and, you know, the military at least, so that they can't ever develop that ability to make that choice. They take that away from them. Honestly, that's a bigger factor of droids, which is an entire conversation that...
01:48:59
Speaker
Star Wars is kind of has not had at all. Yeah, there's a lot of ethics to think about there. yeah Lack thereof. The ethics of droids is definitely one of the hot topics that Star Wars does not want to touch. It's in... It's in... It's in the zeitgeist, but usually it goes towards, like, the droids will go Skynet. But like that's usually, like...
01:49:28
Speaker
Is that the logical thing? don't know, but you can compare it to how Anakin was like literally willing to die to get R2 back. Yes, this is true. yeah you it Honestly, I feel that there's there's a whole discussion about droids that still needs to be had in canon and Legends. Just in general about like droids as a... as a...
01:49:57
Speaker
quote unquote species as what they are in the franchise. Gee, if only someone had a medium that they could use to discuss this in a semi-public forum. Right. If only If only. If only. I'm sensing a special edition of of the show coming up. Perhaps so.
01:50:19
Speaker
Because yes, this is definitely a... Because I have a lot of thoughts, but I don't know if i have the myth that... it I would like to talk about it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:50:30
Speaker
h You want to play so you can casually discuss something nerdy? Right.
01:50:38
Speaker
Okay, I would need some time to, like... categorize thoughts. Recording tomorrow, Nick. i definitely feel like or Before I put my full input on the detailed elements of the ways that droids are treated throughout the series, I would need a greater understanding of the series to fully analyze analyze that factor but it is certainly a factor which i will be thinking of in the future oh yeah i do think we we could gather everyone here for like their own ah i don't think again like we aren't unless we can get in contact with with with disney why do we want to do that oh oh so you can make a cannon yeah you know one one of the didn't get that you try again
01:51:31
Speaker
Shut up, Siri. So, we we hear right there one of the things about why why you technology going Skynet.
01:51:42
Speaker
but um Also, this is the first time Siri has every doctor in five weeks. One of the things that...
01:51:54
Speaker
A big piece of of story information about the treatment of droids means that we we have to do Rise of Skywalker because of 3PO.
01:52:09
Speaker
You also have to do Solo. I have no problem doing Solo. Solo is fun to watch. I know, I'm just saying, you have to. yeah Who doesn't like Solo? Solo?
01:52:21
Speaker
People, apparently. I was going say, well, arguably plenty of people. I'm just saying you have to do it for all three. i mean, the people that i know that that didn't like Solo, I just, I addressed them with the a very good argument. Anyway.
01:52:42
Speaker
Anyway, we will plan that all offline. And Lauren, I feel safe in saying that the next arc coming up will be more your speed.
01:52:53
Speaker
Yeah, it looks like it. I think you're going to like the Kyber 6. Oh, boy. It's a really fun arc. And it it actually goes back to, like, remember Jedi Survivor? That was the Ilum where it would be a direct...
01:53:11
Speaker
that whole arc, would that whole level was made in as a homage to this arc. Oh, and also there's a robot voiced by David Tennant.
01:53:22
Speaker
Lovely. He's pretty awesome. I'll be looking forward to that then. I think you're going to like Hu Yang. Hu Yang's great. He is awesome.
01:53:33
Speaker
He is awesome. And there there are moments where His line delivery is very much, they just shoved the 10th Doctor into a droid body, didn't they? He regenerated as a droid.
01:53:47
Speaker
Beautiful. oh Honestly, that that that was my biggest, like, it's just going to be the 10th Doctor as a droid, but like, no, they made it work. They made it work. but Yeah, but that's also because the 10th Doctor, like, that just also is David Tennant. He's more or less playing himself as a time lord.
01:54:06
Speaker
Mm-hmm. But that brings to me. bring that same unhinged to every character he ever plays. And we love him for it. That brings us. And that's why we also, we love you, Betsy.
01:54:20
Speaker
Because I'm unhinged. Yeah, I know. I am unhinged. Yay. Yep. yep we think of you i think where We love your particular flavor of unhinged, Betsy. Because it was your guys' flavor of unhinged.
01:54:34
Speaker
We're all unhinged. Of course. Well, y'all haven't heard me talk about Kirby yet. i've I've heard a little bit about your Kirby talk. Mm-hmm.
01:54:45
Speaker
you've You've heard only a mere fraction of my power. That's true. To underestimate her power, Nick. Yes. That's what
Closing and Call to Action
01:54:53
Speaker
I'm saying. like That's why we have to keep on doing as many podcasts to prevent them. It's like, you're not ready.
01:55:00
Speaker
I'm not ready. Hey, I for one am totally ready to hear her talk about Kirby. Mm-hmm. But that that brings us to the end of this episode of Casual Nerdity and Clone Watch. We want to thank everybody for joining us again and doing the requisite stuff out of the way. Just you'll be sure to follow us on socials, on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, Blue Sky, and and the hellscape known as Twitter or X. um It's Twitter. It's Shitter.
01:55:33
Speaker
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01:55:47
Speaker
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01:56:15
Speaker
But in the meantime, it's a a crazy and increasingly scary world out there. So take care of yourselves and take care of all of your loved ones. Take care of each other.
01:56:30
Speaker
Keep warm. Yes. It's really cold. Keep warm. Metaphorically and realistically. and That's exactly what I was about to say. And um in the meantime, if you want to reach out to us. You can email us at podcast at casual nerdity.com. And we hope that you will join us again next time. And thank you again for listening. In the meantime, take care and have a wonderful two weeks before we're back.
01:57:09
Speaker
has been casual nerdity. We hope you've enjoyed your time with us and look forward to having you back.