Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
X-Men: From the Ashes - One Year In
35 Plays4 months ago
Our longest episode to date! Daryl and semi-regular contributor Betsy are joined by our friend Brev from The Movie Defenders to talk comics. Marvel's X-Men books relaunched about a year ago with an old-new direction, and we talk about our impressions - good and bad - for all of them.
00:00 Introduction
02:18 Favorite non-Claremont X-books
30:39 X-Men: From the Ashes - Initial Thoughts
44:47 X-Men: Heir of Apocalypse
49:09 X-Men
1:03:09 Phoenix
1:10:56 NYX
1:22:40 X-Force
1:29:15 Uncanny X-Men
1:41:40 X-Factor
1:53:30 Exceptional X-Men
2:06:47 Wolverine
2:10:21 Dazzler
2:20:05 Storm
2:31:08 Sentinels, Mystique
2:34:35 Psylocke
2:38:53 Laura Kinney: Wolverine
2:41:10 Hellverine
2:43:19 Deadpool & Wolverine, Cable: Love & Chrome
2:46:26 Weapon X-Men
2:47:13 Magik
2:52:49 X-Manhunt crossover
The Movie Defenders
https://moviedefenders.libsyn.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Celebrating Pop Culture with Casual Nerdity
00:00:10
Speaker
Casual Nerdity is a podcast celebrating and discussing the pop culture that we love Movies, TVs, comics, books, games, you name it. Ari missed to talk about the good, what worked, and yeah, sometimes what didn't.
00:00:22
Speaker
All with an eye towards building up, not tearing down. Thanks for joining us.
00:00:28
Speaker
Welcome back to Casual
Special Guest Brev and Episode Concept
00:00:30
Speaker
Nerdity. We are diving back into the realm of comics this time. I am Daryl and I am the only one of our regular voices on the show this time.
00:00:43
Speaker
ah One of our semi-regular voices is back. Hello Betsy.
00:00:49
Speaker
And we also have, as a very special guest, our good friend from the Movie Defenders, Brev. And, of course, Brev, we had to have you here because this whole episode was your idea, baby.
00:00:59
Speaker
Well, this one's for more. i appreciate being here and invited for this one. Well, of course. I mean, this whole operation was your idea. yeah and And you know it it kind of gave me the kick in the pants to to read these books.
Marvel's X-Books Relaunch Post-Krakoa
00:01:12
Speaker
And what we're going to be talking about here is little over a year ago, Marvel kind of relaunched their X-Books after the several years long Krakoa era, as it's come to be called, with From the Ashes. And they they kind of went back to you or conventional, for want of a better term, X-Men stories, and relaunched a whole new slew of titles, relaunched.
00:01:41
Speaker
And so we're going to be taking a look at that first year because it's it it's been a thing. It's been a bunch of comics, some better than others.
00:01:54
Speaker
there's There has been a lot of comic books that have been released yeah from the ashes. Yes. yeah Truly the comics of all time. there' now Yes, I've spent many a dollar on these comics, so I feel I've earned the right to talk about them on a semi-public forum. so yeah Absolutely.
Chris Claremont's Influence on X-Men
00:02:13
Speaker
Let's start off, though, by by getting kind of a baseline, because Chris Claremont's shadow looms large over all things It always will. Yes, for good reason.
00:02:24
Speaker
Yes. So, and of course, it's been quite a while since he has been involved in the X-Books.
Favorite Non-Claremont X-Men Runs
00:02:33
Speaker
So, if he's the gold standard, I think it's kind of fair.
00:02:38
Speaker
Let's get kind of a baseline of what our favorite non-Clairmont X-Men or X-Title runs are. um I'll throw mine out there first.
00:02:52
Speaker
ah The... Louise and Walt Simonson run of X Factor was awesome. And there's a brief period after Chris Claremont left Excalibur when it was just Alan Davis writing and drawing, and it was just total insanity, and I loved And should come as no surprise, after the last time Brev was on the show, when we were memorializing Peter David, that his various runs on X-Factor are near the top of my heap. You do seem to enjoy the silly aspects of comic books, which I appreciate.
00:03:40
Speaker
Oh, I love some silly. i love some... some just melodrama. I love my favorite book of all time is, is new teen Titans where you get your, you grand superhero adventure with you a nice side serving of soap opera.
00:03:59
Speaker
So very good way to describe those books. Yeah. I mean like that book and uncanny just, The two of them coming out together, you can just almost feel like... and i'm um' um I always like New Teen Titans, but I haven't really read it.
00:04:12
Speaker
I read it at um when the Wildebeest showed up. So I think it was kind of near the end of that run. Huh? Titans Hunt. Titans Hunt, that's it, yes. So I picked up from there and read it for a little while because of my brother's friends.
00:04:25
Speaker
He had like a huge comic book collection. He had every ElfQuest issue, all that sort of stuff. So like he ah he brought that over one day and I read that and then I've gone back as an adult and I'm buying all the graphic novels. But what i'm where I'm getting at is...
00:04:40
Speaker
is ah just knowing like what Marv Wolfman was doing on Teen Titans and Chris Claremont was doing on Kenny X-Men. I mean, those two books, there' it's no it's no surprise they were both top sellers in the 80s given the content and we were the stories that were being created by those creators because like those are just really well-written books.
00:05:00
Speaker
Oh, 100%. I think it had a really good balance between you know like the superhero stuff that you you know you go into comics wanting but then also like the good character shit. e Because like that's what keeps me as a reader around.
00:05:13
Speaker
yeah yeah You need a balance between the two, right? You need like, you want the soap opera because that makes it like, okay, why is Wolverine the way he is? you know what What is going on? Why should I care, basically? Yeah, it's not just punch, punch, punch, but you also need punch, punch, punch because you want the
Balancing Superhero Action and Melodrama
00:05:29
Speaker
action. So it matter so when when the violence comes up, it matters.
00:05:33
Speaker
Yeah, like it gives the punches literal weight, like actual weight behind everything other than just, okay, we're superheroes and we punch things, let's go. Yes, and but if you have just just the melodrama, which one of these books, I believe, is only melodrama and has no action and that we're going to talk right here in a minute, um then you're kind of like, okay, what are we doing? like Yeah, it's like this is a hero comic, isn't it? Like, did I pick up the wrong book?
00:05:55
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, like, this is neat, but I've been through puberty, and I'd like to see them punch something or kick some ass or go to a demon plane. I don't know, something has to happen. could have watched a soap opera instead. They have those.
00:06:09
Speaker
Yeah, like, where's Bird Boy? Like, let's do something here, right? so I like having my action in my superhero action stories, which is why I'm not a huge Bendis fan.
00:06:23
Speaker
What? You don't like Bendis? like page Page after page of of talking heads where you then cut to a panel. Oh, look, this action happened off panel.
00:06:34
Speaker
Yeah. Were you the one, Daryl, that mentioned when I talked about the Daredevils run with him and Bendis and Maliv, and you like, ugh. Was that you? Yes.
00:06:45
Speaker
okay Probably. yeah Probably. yeah You were another friend, yeah. So... it it It might have been both, but that that is a response that I would have because I can sum up my reaction to Bendis' Daredevil this way.
00:07:01
Speaker
Page after page of Matt and Foggy having the same conversation about Matt's identity being outed and how bad it sucks. Yeah. we Once you said that, I had a little self-reflection and thought, you know, damn it, Daryl's not wrong.
00:07:18
Speaker
It kind of was that for about a good 30 issues of sprinkled in some superheroics in there. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We're not here to talk about daredevil, right? No, no, we're not. We're here to talk about the X-Books. So Brev, what are your favorite non-Clairmont X-Books?
Brev's Personal X-Men Comics Journey
00:07:35
Speaker
right, so to set the context for the new readers new listeners, I already screwed that up. So ah my first, I'm gonna i'm just going to go like the history of Brev real fast, as fast as I can, because Brevity is not one of my strong suits. So when I was a kid, I remember watching Amazing Spider-Man. a Spider-Man has amazing friend, seeing the X-Men on there.
00:07:54
Speaker
ah with the Firestar is Born episode. My brother telling me how awesome the X-Men are, like the best ever. But he did mention Wolverine is actually not Australian. So he even knew that then. And then we went to some family friends that had moved from Richardson to like little rock out Arkansas. So we went to go visit them.
00:08:09
Speaker
And on the way back, Tyler had an issue of X-Men. That was ah okay. So I didn't know what it was at the time, but it was the Phoenix, the untold story. So it was the redo of issue 137 where Jean, spoiler alert, dies as Phoenix, yada, yada, yada, battle on the blue. Yeah, know that on the blue moon, all that sort of stuff. One of the greatest, best issues of all time, but it didn't have the cover on it.
00:08:34
Speaker
So I didn't know. So this is the first day I read. i read that on the ride back from Little Rock back to Richardson, Texas, and I was like captivated. I was like, oh, my gosh, this is the best thing ever I've ever read.
00:08:45
Speaker
And then over the years, Tyler, my older brother, he gets sporadic like three issues at a time with the local 7-Eleven. And so after Spinner Rack, and so I'd like I like read. 195 through 197 and i was like oh that was great and then he bought like 212 through 214 and i was like wow this is really cool but seems like a lot happened between these issues he's like oh yeah don't worry about you'll be fine and then he had like he actually had all the way to like 220 and then he stopped and i was like okay i'm gonna need you to stop stopping you need to keep buying this shit because this is getting really good he's like no but daredevil's lot cooler x-men suck i'm like okay
00:09:22
Speaker
So then I started, my best friend of the time, he started, his cousin gave him a whole bunch that he didn't want anymore, and they were like all around Fall of the Mutants. So but then that and then we read all that, and then it was...
00:09:33
Speaker
And then we, ah for Christmas, we both asked for like, ah like oh, no, no, sorry. Then then after Father's Meetings, and then we kind of got into, because then he had also, ah after that, he had mostly Outback era.
00:09:45
Speaker
And then um during the first Genosha run, I was like, okay, I'm going to start collecting comic books. So I told mom and dad, like, I want to start, oh I'm going to do this, I'm going to this. so my first ever issue I bought was x Uncanny X-Men 238, so it was the last part of the four-parter of the first genosha storyline and i bought that one and from that point forward i collected all the way up until oh gosh magneto war i think i dropped out right before that because i went overseas to study i came back i tried to pick it back up yada yada yada then
00:10:16
Speaker
met Aaron, ah we got we got married, and then by the time we had kids, I was like, I can't afford all this anymore, so i had to drop out. And then i got back in when one day i was scrolling through Twitter, and i kind of kept up a little bit here and there. like I got Marvel United just so I could like read some stuff I always want to read. And I was like, oh, the X-Men, I don't know if i want to get back into it so it's so much. and then And then I was on Twitter and I saw Fabian Nicieza was doing an interview with a guy on ah on a podcast called Cerebro.
00:10:47
Speaker
And so i was like, what is this? And like started listening to Cerebro, got hooked. And then like, okay, I pulled me back in to Krakoa. So I started, I started back with Krakoa and started reading from that point forward. And then I started buying physical copies again with the fall of the house of X and have been on since that point forward.
00:11:04
Speaker
What's nice is that my 14 year old son, he's big, he's getting into comic books now. So he's buying things like all the star Wars books. Like he bought all the higher, let's, let's rephrase this. I bought them for him. All of the star Wars books. Yeah.
00:11:16
Speaker
Let's make sure that's clear. And so we've been reading those together with the High Republic novels. And then he's also reading Moon Knight and All New Venom and a couple other books that he's really, really enjoying, which apparently are better than these. We'll talk about that here in minute. And so that gives you my history of the X-Men is as fast as I could possibly do it. They're still my favorite superhero team of all time. I have bobbleheads, Funko Bobs everywhere. I bought the Marvel and X-Men United but miniatures game, which i absolutely think is great. yeah I'm a huge X-Men nut.
00:11:42
Speaker
Love them.
Impact of Claremont and Simonson
00:11:44
Speaker
To answer your question, Daryl, I love Louise and Walter Simonson's run on X Factor. I think it is highly underrated. Weezy took over a book that sucked.
00:11:59
Speaker
She knew it sucked. She yeah told Shooter it sucked. And he said, if you think you could do better, it's yours. And she took it and she ran with it. And then once Walter joined her, It just flew. It was all the things we just talked about.
00:12:10
Speaker
Great human drama going on there. The Gene Scott, will they, won't they? Warren issues. You know, got Bobby, you got Hank, you got the the wards over there. i mean, the whole thing was great. And oh, my God, she just knew how to take a book. And like, I will make the the reason why Factor sucked is because all that was Bob Layton. All he could do is think in terms of sixty s X-Men and they got canceled for a fucking reason.
00:12:34
Speaker
Right. It sucked. And so she said, I'm going to take Claremont style, make it my own and like take this thing off. And to thank God she did. There is nobody, in my opinion, that writes Jean Grey better than Louis Simonson.
00:12:45
Speaker
And I love that run of X Factor um up until I think Walt is getting done with Inferno. I think he was kind of finished after that, but that's OK. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and the the book existed in the first place simply because somebody said, hey, let's let's do the original five X-Men in a book again.
00:13:03
Speaker
Well, like Kurt Busiek, he had written in, like in ah in a letters page, how to bring Gene back. and then And then John Byrne was like, well, I'll give my old buddy Chris Claremont the middle finger and I'll do it in Fantastic Four. was like, well, shit. then Claremont's like, what the fuck do you bring Gene? I'm sorry, Betsy. Are you okay if I curse?
00:13:21
Speaker
I don't know. Are you right? There's a reason that we have an adult rating whenever I'm on the other episode, so. Okay, okay, good, good, good. doesn it because it it crazy the fuck word good because Chris runs in what the fuck you brought Jean back I killed her and he's like do something about it like well fuck that I do something Madeline anyway going on I love that run I love then went when it. One of the things I went back and read it was Messiah Complex. I was like, OK, this was actually really good. This is like it's long, but it's really, really well done. I love Messiah Complex.
00:13:53
Speaker
And then um I really enjoyed, obviously, Krakoa. I know there are some people that hated it. They're like, oh, this is woke nonsense. And I was like, well, this is actually kind of really interesting. And like this is a this is a hybrid of Claremont and um And who's it? Grant Morrison kind of put together where it's superheroics, but in drama, but it's still weird and it's still crazy. And it like it really works.
00:14:16
Speaker
And I really enjoyed it. I think some of it was was really good. Some of it was great. i um There were some books in there. I was like, eh, that's not great. But like I do think at the end, they stuck the landing with issue 700. I was like, okay, they ended well.
00:14:31
Speaker
I loved it. I loved the ending. So that's that's my long-winded What's my favorite non-Claramont? but And you you mentioning Morrison, honorable mention to me for Morrison.
00:14:44
Speaker
Yeah. That got me back reading X-Men after a long hiatus when I just kind of fell off. Because i I was very, very, surprise
Superhero vs. Human Drama in X-Men
00:14:59
Speaker
me, petty.
00:15:01
Speaker
I was very, very, I was very petty when Heroes Reborn and rolled around. Mm-hmm. and And I dropped every Marvel book except um Untold Tales of Spider-Man and Hulk.
00:15:19
Speaker
Yeah. I dropped every single Marvel book that I was reading. And a lot of them I never just got back into afterwards. And Morrison's X-Men is what made me say, let me see what's going on over here in the X-Books again.
00:15:36
Speaker
It was so different. So it was like, it was, I had trouble because I wanted super heroics and instead he was given a science fiction and I was like, okay.
00:15:49
Speaker
But like, and the other part, hard part was uncanny was so different than what was happening in new X-Men. So it was hard to balance the two in my opinion. was Like, okay, wait, what's, I don't understand. Like one has got Alex Havocs like falling in love with the nurse that took care of him. And this one's got bird boy. I don't,
00:16:05
Speaker
This is fucking strange. I can't i can't balance these two. okay Anyway. So Betsy, what about you? buts see what Yeah, I was going to say, apparently we all have the same favorite, though mine is kind of for a different reason. It was like, God, I don't even remember how long ago it was. I forget if it was like middle school or high school, but ah that Louise Walter Simonson's X Factor, like that was one of the first things that I started reading from Marvel because a friend gave it to me and said, hey, hey, no, listen, I know this is old, but you have to read this.
00:16:39
Speaker
And honestly, that's like what got me. I started reading a lot of the X-Men comics that I've read ever since. I think it was just... It's that good. It's that good.
00:16:49
Speaker
No, literally, that's like what I'm trying to figure out how to say because like they were trying to explain that When i they first handed it me, like, hey, so you know all the old ones from the very beginning?
00:17:00
Speaker
And, you know, Small Child and me just kind of like nodding along like, uh-huh, yeah, I've seen the animated series. Okay, this time they brought them back, but it's different and it's good. And I was like, okay, if you say so. And then I think I read like all the issues they handed to me in one night.
00:17:15
Speaker
a It's hard to put it down. There's such a... Have you ever gone back and read like the first five or so? Okay. It is so... Tell me you disagree if if you want, but like it is... I think issue one is is okay. It's a good first issue. I respect it.
00:17:32
Speaker
I have such a hard time with Scott just abandoning Madeline and his kid, especially since Scott was abandoned as a kid. i just that's that's a hard That's a hard square for me to make work, but I love the three panels with Warren debating on whether he's going to call Scott and tell him Gene is back because there's so much going on to those three panels of Warren's like, I could finally have her. like yeah this This is me, of course, projecting into the panel.
00:17:57
Speaker
Warren is thinking, I could finally have the girl I always wanted, even though I got this awesome Candy Southern over here. But like Warren's going, I can finally have Gene. if But she's Scott's girl, but Scott's married.
00:18:08
Speaker
What do I do? And finally, of course, Warren does the right thing and calls Scott to let him know, ah yeah, I need to tell you something. it's like But I had such a hard time with Scott leaving her. But it did create a lot of trauma in the first, like, 40 issues.
00:18:24
Speaker
so Yeah, it definitely made things interesting. Oh, yeah. But, like, those next, like, issues two through five are, like, this is awful. This is what made, like, I had just start i just i had just gone back and started with, like, Uncanny. And I started reading from one all the way through. i did the i did all that.
00:18:42
Speaker
up to the Claremont run, and through the Claremont run, up to like objective list number three. And I was like, all right, I'm done, I'm good. I feel like I've read enough X-Men. I've read them all once before, but I did it all in one time and I put X-Factor New Mutants in there as well as I went.
00:18:54
Speaker
And I was like, this book is so hard to read, but once you get, once Wheezy joins and makes Apocalypse actually suddenly interesting, mean, this should be just like a Wheezy review. Like once you get through there and it does that, all of a sudden it's like, this book started to get good. It's starting to get better, better. It's like tick, tick, tick. it's like the roller coaster. And then it goes tick, tick, tick, tick. And then it just takes off about, I don't know, when Walter showed, it's right before he shows, it's, it's, um,
00:19:23
Speaker
mutant massacre it's that issue 10 when it just finally goes so we're good and she just fucking takes off and you're like actually no it's before that because it's when rusty and skids are both there and they're escaping for freedom force that's when it really goes and it's like issue nine nine that's it and then it just takes off from there and you're like this ride is awesome i love this ride anyway sorry sorry i cut you off i apologize No, honestly, you said it better than I could have put into words right now because that really is so much of what it was. And I even really do agree with you about the whole thing with Scott just kind of like up and leaving Madeline because it's like, okay, so we had this whole thing where this was the whole drama and now they could maybe live happily ever after. No, just kidding.
00:20:03
Speaker
Yeah. But then it ended up being something really good. No, just kidding. Because we wanted another X book. Exactly. yeah. And then like, mean, like something so good out of it, but it's, yeah, but it's so good because then you got Inferno. I mean, like who doesn't love that? Because if you read all that up until that point and you're like, you get to in for Inferno matters so much more now. It's because like when I was a kid, I read it. I was like, oh, this is really good. But if you go back and read from the beginning to that, that is, you could stop right there and be like, what a journey Scott went on.
00:20:31
Speaker
from this entire thing. And like, he doesn't get out of this, no pun intended, Scott free of any of this sort of stuff. Like his behavior comes back to haunted big time, but like the sacrifice that he makes and realizing like what I have done, how I have wronged Madeline, how I have this child that's now more important than even me that I need to take care of and all this shit. It's like so good. And it's so great. And Chris and Louise and Louise are just knocking it out of the park with the writing.
00:20:56
Speaker
I just, I mean, like you could do that run and be like, God damn, that was great comics. Yeah. I wish they do that shit again. Yeah, think that really hits what I've been about having the balance between the superhero punch-ups and the real, for lack of a better word, human drama
Jonathan Hickman's X-Men Vision
00:21:10
Speaker
of it all.
00:21:10
Speaker
Yeah, totally, totally. I think it really just hits that balance so well. Yes. And just on a small note, I also appreciated her just blowing up that whole nonsense mutant hunters cover that they had.
00:21:27
Speaker
Yeah, it's very dumb. Yeah. What was really cool is how she did because she didn't do it at first. And it was like, I'm going to take the subtle hints that Bob and Jackson have been laying down with Cameron Hodge and I'm going to like needle those a little bit more and like turn them into my own.
00:21:43
Speaker
Because as an editor, she knows I can't disregard what's come before, but how can I use it to move forward? And by turning Cameron Hodge into ah just an absolute creep was like, this is fucking genius.
00:21:58
Speaker
So, yeah. yeahla it's It's a great run. But what's your other favorite run? was going to say, I also really do like Herkoa, but I think a lot of that is just, I like the way that Hickman writes and how there are these, like, all these little things that you think are going to be completely insignificant that end up coming back in a big way. and just find that really fun to read.
00:22:17
Speaker
It's like you're putting the pieces of this giant puzzle together and you don't even realize what is a puzzle piece until you get there. He's so good at that. He's like, yeah, I love, I love Krakoa. I was so impressed with the house of ten powers our powers of tent House of X, Powers X. I loved it. And then I loved the whole, not not every book I loved, but that he was just, his architecture of that is so good. Are you reading um Imperium?
00:22:41
Speaker
I have not yet. That's definitely on my list, though. I haven't either yet. I'm loving it. i am It's not moving fast. I want more issues. I want weekly instead of monthly. I'm just like, give me more, give me more. Maybe mean that'll be my reward for surviving dirty duty tomorrow.
00:22:54
Speaker
There you go. But I am digging his ultimate Spider-Man. Yes. It's one of the best Marvel books and in in production today. Yes. Yes. and and And it ends in a little bit.
00:23:08
Speaker
and Don't get me started. um Yeah, but but Hickman is so good at picking up the nuggets left behind by other authors as well and being like, know you know, remember this? have Yeah, like those you would never think would have had any sort of significance that just suddenly come back again, like in a big way. It's the puzzle pieces.
00:23:28
Speaker
And you have to pay attention to everything because you don't know what's going to be a puzzle piece. Yes. and Yes. He has that skill that a lot of my favorite writers, period, let alone comics writers have, where where they take something that's existing like the X-Men and all of those decades of X-Men history and lore.
00:23:47
Speaker
And it's like, okay, what happens when I look at it a little sideways? Yes. Like what happens if I find this little thread and I just pull on it and see what happens? Like what if Moira really wasn't a good person?
00:24:01
Speaker
how could I make what would that look like i was like oh shit this is great how do I make that interesting and you know make a whole plot kind of that starts around that and builds to something how can I convince Eric and Charles that bringing Sinister onto this island is a good idea like oh no not only a good idea to bring him here but to also give him like a good seat of power too Yeah, make him really responsible for a lot of how this is going to work. And you go like, wait, guys, stop, stop. This is Mr. Sinister we're talking about. it I mean, his name is Sinister.
00:24:32
Speaker
Stop. I literally put him charge of other people, too, while we're it. He has a way of, you can tell from looking at the presentation that he gives, that...
00:24:45
Speaker
He has a very solid idea of where he's going, how he's going to get there, the elements and foundations of everything that he's writing.
00:24:58
Speaker
And I think also just everything that came before, too. He has an immense amount of respect for everything that happened before him, and he doesn't shit on it, which is why I love it. He changes it, but he doesn't shit on I love that about Hickok.
00:25:09
Speaker
And you you can tell that he sat down and and didn't just say, okay, time to do my first issue. What am I going to do? That he is he has sat down and said, okay, here is the bedrock that my run is going to rest on.
00:25:24
Speaker
And here's this piece here and this piece. I may never reference any of this, but I know where where it all is. And I know how it all connects. He has a really good quote that I like, and I'll probably go fuck it up, but it's, um, Canon is only the stories that matter.
00:25:43
Speaker
So all the little details of things that people get that we as nerds get, get latched onto. He's like, yeah, but really it's the big stuff that matters, not the little minutia. Like it's the big things that are what drive the story or what most people, 90% people remember.
00:25:59
Speaker
people remember So let's, let's play on that. And, but I do love the fact like he does stuff like, I'm going to go, I'm going to so put this back at where where Moira and Charles are going to go meet Magneto back at his ah Bermuda Triangle
Marvel United and X-Men Revival
00:26:12
Speaker
base. And I was like, Oh my God, i just read. I was like, I just read one 50 the other day. This is great. I remember this. I saw this. Like, this is awesome. It's like,
00:26:25
Speaker
yeah the whole thing is just and how he's able to as ah as as a fellow writer i love how he's able to keep the voices too between all the different characters everybody was unique everybody was different everybody had their voice and they all sounded they all sounded like themselves which was just sort of from emma to apocalypse to scott to the whole the whole cast i just thought they were just all fantastic he did a great job yeah So you you guys ah i you guys have sold me, even though I was interested in it before, and i have you know it just it all got away from me.
00:26:59
Speaker
I have some notes about that here in a minute. I need to actually sit down and read it at some point. Very much recommend. It just gets really interesting really fast, and there are so many different little pieces.
00:27:12
Speaker
Yeah, and you don't have to worry about if where's my favorite X-Men character, because they'll show up. Yeah, they will be there. Yeah. I mean, there's the there's the mainstays. It's like, yeah, there's the main characters of the story. Yes. But I mean, like, and then Marvel United or Marvel Unlimited, don't know if you use that or not, but like it has a good, reading it has a reading order in there. So that's a good way to follow it. That way you don't get, because House of X, Powers of X kind of goes back and forth in a weird way.
00:27:37
Speaker
And then you can read the other books in the order that it suggests. I like, a lot of people shit on it. I thought Teeny Howard's Excalibur was great. And I liked Ten of Swords. It was long, but I mean, like at one point time, I sat up in bed and cheered at one big panel. i was like, yes!
00:27:53
Speaker
I just cheered at a comic book. Wow. i like I'm 12 all over again. I think Head of Swords is one of those where it's like, it's fun. It's like that level of seriousness to it.
00:28:04
Speaker
It's fun. You're having a good time. It's a big done tournament arc and it's great. Yes! I do want to touch on one thing. that i mean so The first X-Men issue I read and then so imagine Brev years later now getting into comic books and being like, well wait, i don't understand. Gene's still alive.
00:28:22
Speaker
Because at the end, because it's the untold story, the Phoenix, and the untold story, is the, what would have happened had we not killed Gene? You know, Jim Shooter didn't force our hand. And then we were going to do this. i was like, so I remember my buddy Eric and I get an argument. He's like, no, no, no, she died. I'm like, no, she didn't. I have the comic, but she didn't.
00:28:37
Speaker
And he showed me his tray paperback with the original print. and I was like, well, this isn't what I remember. This is weird. I found the other issue. I like, well, this is what is it? We didn't know what it was. We thought it was some sort of weird anathema. Like, how did you find that? I don't know. It was Tyler's.
00:28:50
Speaker
I don't know. And then years later, I'm like, oh, that that's what it was. So flash forward about a year ago, and Gail Simone asks online, like, what was your first X-Men issue? Like, this one. And it didn't have a cover on it So you can imagine my poor brain going like, wait, what? Gene's not dead?
00:29:04
Speaker
what the fuck what's going on it's okay it's comics they get better yeah no shit oddly enough steel trap for typhria
Longevity of X-Men Legacy
00:29:13
Speaker
brain yeah while phoenix the untold story wasn't my first x-men comic it's kind of funny that you associate it with driving back to Richardson because I clearly remember buying it at a seven 11 on the border of Richardson and Plano.
00:29:32
Speaker
Nice. I know exactly the seven 11 that I bought it at. It's not there anymore. The building is still there. It's not a seven 11 anymore, but we used to get yeah so much trouble for walking to seven 11 from her or from our house. My mother would be like, you're going to get kidnapped.
00:29:49
Speaker
So,
00:29:52
Speaker
So are now that we kind of have our baseline established, are are we ready? Are we ready to dive in? We're only 30 minutes into this. I know that, Brev, you're used to being an hour, hour and 30 in before you get to the meat of the episode.
00:30:09
Speaker
i am. just That's just me, though. Again, brevity is not my thing. So I just talk, talk, and talk, talk. You should get that t-shirt or something. ah The t-shirt I'm wearing right now my son gave me and it says,
00:30:20
Speaker
no let's lets it says no, you're right. Let's do it the dumb way because it's easier for you. oh I need that t-shirt. Yeah, I think I do too.
00:30:33
Speaker
oh Well, let's let's get ready to dive in and let's say... To me, my X-Men.
Expectations for 'From the Ashes' Storyline
00:30:42
Speaker
Nice. I was hoping you would have that one.
00:30:46
Speaker
Yeah, we we needed a nice transition there. So, yeah so initial thought, Brev, you are our special guest. This was this, this whole episode concept was your idea, your baby.
00:31:02
Speaker
So what are your initial thoughts on From the Ashes? Okay, so we are established that Krakoa was awesome, really enjoyed it, thought it was great.
00:31:12
Speaker
um And then I was excited. So I was sad to see it end. But I was also like, okay, all good things, right? All good things must end. Yeah. um So they announced it from the ashes. And of course, I did the eyebrow rise. Like I've heard that before.
00:31:26
Speaker
Thank you. they They use that and the another great story arc that we're not go talk about we're moving forward. So i was getting a little tired. So first I was like, okay, I don't like retreading over old stuff like that because I think it kind of takes it away from the... Anyway, it doesn't matter.
00:31:39
Speaker
So it was like, okay, but it's kind of cute. So I was like, okay, I'm going to start ground floor... revamp. Let's do this. I'm pumped. I saw all the different titles coming out and thought, okay, cool. I don't know most these creators, but I like the characters they're showcasing. This is going to be fun. I'm having good time. it was new people. That's awesome.
00:31:58
Speaker
And I knew Brevoort had been working at Marvel for years. I knew he had done a great job with Avengers for like, what, two decades or something like that. And like, I'm like, okay, so go ahead. Oh, I was just going to say, yeah, he's responsible for Busick and Perez on Avengers, which my favorite run of that book.
00:32:16
Speaker
That's a great book. that See, that's the hero. it Wasn't that the Heroes Reborn that was good, though? that That was Heroes Return. Heroes Return. Heroes Return. Yes, that was great. um i just ah that that's That's good run. Anyway, um so any did it did it is so ah so i was like, okay, well, let's see what the guy can do with X-Men. That's okay. you know Let's give a guy a shot. And I thought, okay, um let's let's see what he can make that happen. um And he said, one of the things that that that caught me, caught my attention, he said, every one of these books is going to be catered to some level of X-Men fandom.
00:32:51
Speaker
And so he's going to be like, okay, interesting. I wonder how that's going to work out. um But okay, cool. um I don't know. Like everyone's go have a different tone and different things. Like, all right, well, and there's a lot of books, so we'll see what happens.
00:33:07
Speaker
And then i think what Brevoort has learned over the, I hope he has learned over the course of the last year is that X-Men are different than Avengers. Avengers core roster exists is Iron Man, Thor and Captain America.
00:33:21
Speaker
If you could have one to any one to three of those, you're good. Everybody else is a rotating roster. And they've been doing that since issue
X-Men Book Dynamics and Fan Favorites
00:33:29
Speaker
16, since Cap kicked there with everybody else left. He brought in Scarlet Witch.
00:33:33
Speaker
so Exactly. And so that is the mainstay thing with Avengers. And if you don't like it, you're not gonna like Avengers. But Avengers is great because then the stories change based on the characters of there.
00:33:45
Speaker
And like, that's fun. Like it could be Iron Man and a whole bunch of weirdos. That's great. Okay, cool. Or Thor and a whole bunch of really awesome characters or whatever it is. Like, and that's okay. Avengers fans are used to that. They enjoy that.
00:33:55
Speaker
They don't need to have like a core group, although that's cool too, but they don't have to have that. And that works. That does not work with X-Men. X-Men. X-Men.
00:34:06
Speaker
Although despite Claremont's initial thoughts about, Hey, i want this team to be ever evolving, which he does do. X-Men has a tendency to like, I need a core group of like four to five that will always be there. And maybe they slowly turn out and you only add like one or two new ones.
00:34:24
Speaker
As to not take away from what fans are here for the badassery of the four to five they love. So it doesn't matter the four to five who they are, but they just need to be well-established characters that can run the thematics and that people enjoy and really, really like.
00:34:39
Speaker
So i think what has happened is and let and let and and you can only pull it up if you have a real banger of an idea and something it's really going to work like Peter David's run an X Factor Zeb Wells is on Hellions because they had a specific theme they were going for.
00:34:55
Speaker
And both in the creator teamse um creative teams on both those ran with it and did a great job. And if you bought into it, you loved it. If you didn't, well, it wasn't for you. But I mean, you had to really buy into the concept and it was great. Both those runs are awesome.
00:35:07
Speaker
now these The rest of these books are just not not not there. And so the the issue that he's now had, i think, is we have a whole bunch of books that are kind of disparate all over the place and not enough of them have core characters within to keep people coming back.
00:35:25
Speaker
And I'm like, I can say I go to Madness every week and I see something I never saw as a kid is X-Men books sitting on the sitting on the previous week's shelves for months on end. As a kid, you couldn't if you missed out, you missed out. It was gone. there was no other You couldn't get it you had to wait for second printing or tray paperback. Now I'm like, there's like 200 issues of various X titles sitting on the shelf that were from months ago.
00:35:48
Speaker
like o ah I have a very strong feeling that next year's free comic book day, um if Zeus does their quarter books... which they didn't do this year, but they do most years, a there's going to be a lot of From the Ashes X-Men in there.
00:36:06
Speaker
Probably. So that was my initial thoughts. So I know it's a lot of thoughts, but again, yeah I talk a lot. No, that's fine. Betsy, your initial thoughts.
00:36:17
Speaker
Yeah, so I didn't actually write anything like down, so this going be very like raggedy and word vomity, so bear with me. um But I think kind of like,
00:36:29
Speaker
going off of what Brev said about like getting in on the ground floor or something, like that's kind of what got me started reading Krakowa 2, where I just want to see where something goes. And i mean, i was hopeful.
00:36:41
Speaker
I was interested to see what was going to happen because, you know, after coming off of that, it was very much, i guess the title kind of says it all. That's from the ashes, like seeing how they're going to pick up the pieces and everyone's going to move forward and seeing all the different directions that everyone goes. So I was excited to see like what happening going to happen next and where things were going to go and I would say that like some of these books I definitely did enjoy some of them not nearly as much I was definitely excited to read Uncanny because I mean Gail Simone come on like need I say more yep but yeah I mean it was also kind of just this podcast episode also gave me an excuse to actually like dive in and start reading everything
00:37:26
Speaker
because I just kind of had it sitting on the backlog forever.
00:37:32
Speaker
i got to say going like after having just read through everything that I did, again, there were a lot of things that I did like. There were things that I didn't. I know we're going to get more into the specifics of that. um
00:37:47
Speaker
Trying to figure out what I was going to say. I was going to say something. don't know. It got away from me.
00:37:55
Speaker
Oh, well.
00:37:57
Speaker
It happens. I'm multitasking watching my dog to make sure she doesn't eat something she's not supposed to. Always a problem. i mean I mean, the people do that with me all the time to make sure that I don't eat things I'm not supposed to.
00:38:10
Speaker
Yeah, it's usually for the best. I mean, that's also my day job. so Yeah. Literally, that is half of my day job. I understand. No. I like kept trying to eat crayons yesterday.
00:38:22
Speaker
Don't talk about me like that on the air. So I shouldn't tell anyone about the clay too, or the slime or the Legos? No. All things that very much happened with one child yesterday.
00:38:37
Speaker
As for me, I hadn't read X book regularly since around the time that Whedon's Astonishing Run ended. Um, I picked up issues here and there.
00:38:50
Speaker
um i picked up the wedding one shot because Kitty Pryde is my favorite X-Man. And I was like, hey, she and Colossus are finally getting married. And so I bought it and read it and I wanted to throw it against the wall. Yeah.
00:39:10
Speaker
ah And I'd heard really good things about Krakoa during the early days of COVID since I was working from home and you know wasn't tied to being on the phones like most of the people at my job.
00:39:24
Speaker
I just had YouTube videos running most of the day and was watching one particular YouTube channel that was just like heavy on Krakoa stuff.
Creative Teams and 'From the Ashes'
00:39:33
Speaker
I was like, this is interesting. This is interesting. But...
00:39:36
Speaker
Before I actually started trying to read it, it had already built up so much yeah stuff to read that I just became intimidated by the sheer volume of it.
00:39:50
Speaker
And so just never got around to it. But the. some of the creative teams that they announced for from the ashes. i was like, okay, I'm looking forward to this. Like, you know, we, all three of us have mentioned her by name, Gail Simone, on Uncanny.
00:40:06
Speaker
I immediately went into Keith's comics and I was like, can, can, can you add that to my list yet? Have they been solicited to you yet? No, not yet. Okay. Well, when they do, I need you to put it on there.
00:40:19
Speaker
And, um, but it's been very, listening to what you were saying brev about revoir statement and i had forgotten his statement you there's gonna be an x book for everybody looking at it high level now that i've read through most of them i i had totally missed on some of them that you put down in the notes i was like oh i didn't even hear about that one it wasn't on the list that i compiled yeah was on the list you gave me either yeah um
00:40:54
Speaker
and Well, because it's the same list that I used. Exactly. You can just read this list and go like, man, Brev's kids better get scholarships because he spent a lot of money on this shit. so I have every issue and I'm like, oh God, what am I going to with this crap?
00:41:09
Speaker
Sorry. Well, i i To prep for the show, I've been reading them digitally, and I had backlog in my poll at Keith's.
00:41:22
Speaker
And as I've been going, i went in last weekend to clear out some of the backlog, and i was like, okay, yeah, you can put this back on the shelf. And you can put this back on the shelf. ah And But looking at it high level,
00:41:44
Speaker
It's very clear that ah a lot of the concepts for the books didn't come from a creative point of view of let's tell a story about this, but they came from, okay, let's do a book with these characters and we'll try to retrofit a concept later.
00:42:06
Speaker
Yeah, I would even, yes, yes, and I think there were a few with concepts and the concepts sucked and they were not executed well. I'm sorry. I know this is a podcast. We want to keep things positive.
00:42:17
Speaker
and know. I was having that same problem. but there's like, there's a couple users like, this is not, this concept's not working at all. And I bet you're right, Daryl. Someone's like, okay, we'll put some characters together and see what happens. You're like, eh.
00:42:31
Speaker
That's the what worked and what didn't, right? That's right. they da Thank you. Thank you. and I also remember a ah quote from Gail Simone going into it where, you know, when they had just announced the the three titles with X-Men in the name, yeah uncanny, adjective-less, and exceptional, and they had pictures of the team lineups.
00:42:57
Speaker
Yep. And, you know she was saying, now, you know The characters that you see in these lineups may not necessarily be the characters who are the lineups in those books by the end of the first year.
00:43:12
Speaker
And i was looking at those lineups and i was like, yeah, you cherry picked some characters to make sure that people are going to what You picked fan favorite characters for each of those, which yeah obviously this this makes business sense. I get it.
00:43:30
Speaker
Sure. To make people want to read it. like we We kind of mentioned it earlier on. like I wish Kitty weren't in Exceptional. I wish she were in Gail Simone's Uncanny.
'X-Men: Heir of Apocalypse' Significance
00:43:41
Speaker
Yeah. I think she would have done Kitty more justice, but you know. Yeah, but at the same time, i think Exceptional doesn't sell anything if Kitty's not in it. No, it's true. Honestly, like, there were a lot of things I didn't even like about that, but it's mostly because of stuff to do with Kitty.
00:43:57
Speaker
Yeah, you yeah. Actually, it's something to do with stuff about Kitty, so. Oh, I can't, oh, man, I, ooh, I can't wait to get into this. I want to talk about that one. I have so many thoughts, but now gotta hear Betsy's thoughts.
00:44:08
Speaker
So, uh, so It's kind of with so many books that we're talking about, probably the easiest way is to just go down the list that we have here, which is more or less alphabetical.
00:44:26
Speaker
Yeah, I threw one at the top that's not alphabetical because it's kind of the bridge. Yeah, and go for it because that's one that wasn't on my list, so I didn't read it. I didn't know it existed until um one of the last two issues of adjective lists that followed up on it.
00:44:44
Speaker
So go with X-Men, Heir of Apocalypse. Yeah, this was a four-issue of the minute series that came out right at the end of Krakoa. Krakoa ended and then this came out and then they launched the the new run with X-Men.
00:44:58
Speaker
Did you read, so Daryl didn't read Betsy, did you read this? It a four issue run. Yeah, that's one I did not read. It's like been on my list. And honestly, I just kind of completely forgot it existed. Yeah, my thoughts were it's too long and who cared?
00:45:11
Speaker
i got now and now it's going to matter. But at the time I was like, OK, well, that was just going to happen. I mean, it was neat because there was a whole bunch of X-Men characters all kind of the the the plot is OK. So Apocalypse is trying to choose an heir that's going to take over for him since all of his other heirs have kind of let him down. So he has all these X-Men heroes and villains kind of battling it out in a contest of champions sort of thing. So it's fine. I mean, like.
00:45:34
Speaker
Did I have a good time reading it? I guess so. It was cool. um ah It was neat to see all of them going at it and duking it out. A couple of characters actually died and since resurrection is over, quote unquote. um Yeah, we'll see.
00:45:46
Speaker
Some of them that we haven't seen since this. So, okay, respect. um And it does a really good job of... The thing the thing I like about it is it bridges Kakoa from the ashes really well. It actually does. It kind of says, it says you know, with Kakoa being over...
00:46:02
Speaker
Sad, sad, sad. And a new thing coming up. We need to be like, who is going to be kind of the rise to the top of this. It's interesting because it ends with it, that being Cypher or Doug Ramsey.
00:46:14
Speaker
And I was like, huh, that's an interesting winner of the group. ah Not who I would have chosen, but that's fine. um But it is, it's kind of cool. and And I think it does a good job of like keeping the characters um like I felt like they all were true to themselves.
00:46:31
Speaker
and But when I finished it, I was like, so what's the point of that? That could have been like a one double-sized issue or maybe a giant-sized issue or whatever, planet-sized issue. i don't know, like a big one or one-two-parter had been done before. Issues seemed a little egregious. i didn't hate it. It was okay.
00:46:48
Speaker
It was fine. was fine. I was, ah when Doug showed up in X-Men, referencing back to this, I like, oh, hey, it's Doug. I like Doug.
00:47:00
Speaker
i don't i don't know what the hell's going on in this issue, but it's Don't worry about it. yeah It's Doug and it's Warlock. Yes. well and i And I love Warlock. and And I like Doug's bride, too. Doug, you do.
00:47:13
Speaker
She's awesome. ah you You meet her in Krakoa during the Ten of Swords. And she's fucking great. That was fun. Yes. She's one of my favorite parts of that. She is just a badass. and I was so happy for him.
00:47:27
Speaker
Me too, you know, and I liked him in Krakoa. He deserves some good things, you know? And that's the thing, like, he really, like, what Hickman does with with Doug, Ramsey, and Krakoa, it works so well. Now I'm going, like, so he's now the bad guy? Because he was, like, actually useful in Krakoa. Like, he was really
Scott Summers' Evolution and Leadership
00:47:42
Speaker
cool.
00:47:43
Speaker
Oh, wow. not i don't want Doug to be a bad guy, though. I like Doug. I guess, depending on your point of view, he could be a good guy if the mutants take over. Yeah.
00:47:56
Speaker
Yeah. And so next up, next up, you have cable, love and Chrome. That's another one that I didn't read. So because you put these all in alphabetical order. So I just tried to maintain that because I was going to go in to put them in a release order. And I was like, no, don't fuck with Daryl stuff. So yeah I just did that because it was easy to keep track of. And as we go on, if you want to jump around on here, I have zero problem with that.
00:48:23
Speaker
OK, well, where do you want to go next, Betsy?
00:48:27
Speaker
um honestly i'm fine wherever okay well i guess we'll just go off medical here uh no that's gonna bother me i can't handle it but i don't have a list okay hold on you like to go brev well i want i want i i like things in a certain order because i'm just anal retentive like that it helps me out and it like that way i can think about the narrative of it all and so part of what's in
00:48:54
Speaker
Part of why I put the notes in alphabetical order is I was going through the files and reading in alphabetical order. Makes perfect sense. Okay, so let's go to so the first the first official ah series was is X-Men.
00:49:10
Speaker
So it released on September. Well, no, hold on. says September 24th, but yeah, we're going to go with it. X-Men. So X-Men, X-Men. Okay. First of all, you'll need to be reason for me you all need to be listening to the Cerebro podcast.
00:49:23
Speaker
It's wherever you can get podcasts. Trust me, Connor is great. And you'll hear some questions written by a person that you know very well who's on the podcast with you right now. So it's great. It's a wonderful, it's a deep dive. He goes, he takes an X-Men character and um just does their whole history he has a guest on there with them so it's a a lot of fun if you guys love the x-men he's it's great he's very he's hilarious so and he's very smart too okay so let's go with x-men so uh what do so daryl you're you got the first nose like where how do you want to this you want to
00:49:56
Speaker
Yeah, so i and my thoughts have evolved since what I wrote down in the notes as I've caught up on it. um But especially initially, i just, I did not like how Scott was being handled. I didn't like that it was, know, militant asshole Scott.
00:50:15
Speaker
The bend of Scott. Yeah. And when I started reading X-Men in the mid you ah yeah It was right before they went off in into space with with all of that. you know the the The brood and the star jammers and all that. It was right before all of that.
00:50:37
Speaker
Yeah. Those were my first issue was 154, 155 that ended with Colossus being impaled. And was like, colossus being impaled and yo
00:50:50
Speaker
So, but when I first started, Scott was, you know the quintessential superhero type and somewhere along the line, he's gotten turned into the militant asshole.
00:51:04
Speaker
That's a little closer and approach to Magneto than professor X. And that just has never really sat well with me. Yeah. and but as the book has gone on He has kind of acted closer to the Scott that I'm used to and the Scott that i
Challenges in Recent X-Men Stories
00:51:26
Speaker
I prefer. But I think they really kind of did a disservice. ah the The term slow burn, I think, can be overused a lot.
00:51:35
Speaker
yeah And I think they did the book a disservice by slow rolling all of its big hooks. So that, you know, like I have, I have noted here that it took seven issues to get to the hook of the resurrection problems.
00:51:53
Speaker
You know, where the, the frequent resurrection through Kakoa led leads to medical and power issues. You know, if it were me, that would have been front and center. Cause that's a hook.
00:52:05
Speaker
hey And were I not reading the book as a whole for us to do this episode, I probably would have bailed before they got to that hook.
00:52:17
Speaker
Yep. And so i I think they did the book a disservice by doing that. And you just dive in, give us X-Men, not just in name, but in how they're operating.
00:52:31
Speaker
But it, the, those first half dozen, dozen issues felt more like, well, what more recent years have turned X-Force into a a military, just shy of what works group, as opposed to a superhero team.
00:52:52
Speaker
One of the issues that this, is I'm sorry, I thought you were done. No, go ahead. i One of the issues that I feel that this whole line doesn't have is a theme what is It says it's from the ashes. Okay, but what is the theme? The only theme that I can find that might be interconnecting these books is a ah long lament for Krakoa.
00:53:15
Speaker
And I'm like, but that's not a theme. That's not a superhero theme. That's too much of the melodrama. Like... we should be a world that fears and hates us, or we should be something like, something like that is like what the X-Men always were, or or how we going to unite the family, the school back together? Like, how going to take back Grey Milk and Lane from oh and e right?
00:53:35
Speaker
Like, it should be something like that. Not... It's almost like the X-Men are depressed, and you're like, you know snap out of it. Come on, take your Lexapro and let's go. Let's go fight some bad guys. you know But it's like, ah come on, like's let's do something here. and and and and And I think you're absolutely right, Daryl, because this this book, to me, ah I didn't think much of the first issue. Stegman's art really took me a second. When Scott looked like kind looked like as young as Kid Omega, I was like, what is going on here? Like, what?
00:54:03
Speaker
what is happening and then the art got better he beefed scott up a little bit made him look a little older and like okay and like scott surrounded himself with essentially bad guys which okay this feels like magneto scott all over again okay that's fine that's fine that's fine um but what uh this book uh should have been a double-sized issue front start a start to end one big story to launch us into an amazing like series right and like make it a big battle book and all those sorts of instead it kind of slow rolls you into these things and then the rest of the next few issues are all about like little mini adventures you're like how is this connecting and again i go back to the fact that
00:54:48
Speaker
This felt like 60s X-Men all over again. I was like, none of this fucking seems to matter. Like, what are we doing in this book? Like, where are we going? And then at about issue 10 or so, it starts to gel. It starts to click. And I will tell you, the last, like, six or seven issues, I'll be like, okay, finally.
00:55:07
Speaker
Finally, we're going. I'm enjoying this book. This is good. This is probably one of the better better better series on the line right now. But damn it, it took way too long to get to this point.
00:55:18
Speaker
yeah I've been enjoying the last few issues more than the first few. yeah i All of the books in one case, and this one and Uncanny in another,
00:55:34
Speaker
Neither of them were served well by something that we kind of talked about in the Peter David episode, having to stop what they're doing for a crossover.
00:55:46
Speaker
Yes. For a stupid crossover. I'm sorry. I know these people angry people work hard to make these books. I don't mean to dis on them. They're wonderful people. Jed McKay is a great writer. I've heard on other books, but like,
00:55:56
Speaker
oh my god stop the crossovers are just a little bit like look give a book a chance to start and then you weren't that crossover and like far too early in the run of just this entire new thing like dont give it to Thank you. Like, gra we'll get to it, I'm sure, but Gray Malkin laid assault on Gray Malkin. It was like, that should be, like, the one year, like, we're going to go. But no, they did it, like, four or five issues in. i'm like, there's been no time to establish what Gray Malkin is.
00:56:24
Speaker
And no time to, like, establish these teams that we're having, like, crossover in these little ways to begin with, too. Yeah, I still can't figure out why Scott and Rogue don't like each other anymore. I can't. I'm still baffled by that, but maybe I missed something, so.
00:56:37
Speaker
Yeah, no, you're just as good as mine on that one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because that was kind of the thing too. Oh, sorry, go ahead. No, I was just saying, how about you? Yeah, i was going to say, because for me, it was just like the buildup dragged so much and not because the story itself was like slower boring, but it felt like, you know, kind of what you said about the like different side quests and adventures that they were going on and like trying to spend a little time with this character and this character and this character pulled everything like 20 different directions to the point where we didn't really even get to the story for so long.
00:57:11
Speaker
And even those little like side things didn't really cohere back together as well as I think they could have because it just didn't make it overly satisfying, at least not for me. Like, i think the RDLS is a pretty interesting idea. There's a lot of things to play with there.
Scott Summers' PTSD Exploration
00:57:24
Speaker
and like how to pay that back from Kakoa, especially since so you know we like we know fuck all what it is. We know Jax with a mutant's ability to control their powers, we know Magneto was feeling the effects, but so far, that's about it, and we've only really seen it impact one character out of the 12 billion characters that populate all the X titles.
00:57:42
Speaker
a um I do definitely want to talk about Scott, because I have thoughts there. It's like, you know, while I'm definitely like over the over-militant Scott, because, you know, while I can see the character progression and all that, it sometimes kind of feels like the equivalent of we have Magneto at home, and then the Magneto at home pretends to have like similar radical ideals, but then acts in the most like liberal way possible. So instead of actually changing anything, Scott mostly just helps maintain the status quo over and over again. You know, the ex-boy scout is angry, the humans and mutants are stuck in in this Cold War, water is wet, and so on.
00:58:15
Speaker
But, mean, tell me I'm wrong. No, I will. I just thought it was funny. I would i will say, like, I don't agree with you. with that with that i've I've yet to hear anything you say I disagree with.
00:58:25
Speaker
so And to be fair, Betsy, you buy a shit ton of Girl Scout cookies from my daughter, so I'm not going to tell you you're wrong publicly. Hey, I will always buy a shit ton Girl Scout cookies. You can only get those once a year.
00:58:37
Speaker
I am aware. They are great. Thank God you only get them once a year. I know. We were sitting in the gig room. we were sitting in the game room at one of our RPG sessions and Betsy said, i need to, I need to get some Girl Scout cookies. And you had just posted the link earlier that day. And I was like, I got a link for you. It's like, give me the link immediately.
00:59:01
Speaker
ah got a dealer, man. My wife was so happy. She's like, does she want more? like, well, let's not push our buttons here, but you next time, next year, we'll make sure we hit Betsy up immediately. So. Yes, I will get like as many Thin Mints as possible.
00:59:12
Speaker
That's also the only one of the Girl Scout cookies I can actually eat. Hence why I did in fact order a case. Yes. Yeah, they never believe me when I say that I want one case. They're like, you mean a box? No, no, I mean a case.
00:59:22
Speaker
I said what I said. That's right. I know what I'm about.
00:59:27
Speaker
Well, what else? What about Scott? Because you have something here that want to get into. I want to get what you got Scott because love this note. Yeah, because like all that aside, like I'm just so fucking here for PTSD, Scott, and i hate that we got like two issues total that actually addressed it and one that was in the big crossover event.
00:59:42
Speaker
Because it's like, that's to me a narrative hook for Scott's character arc. Not him like working out mutating him in relations, not him trying to like rebuild the team in Alaska. It's just him, Scott coming to terms with what he went through, what others did to him and how he's going to process all of that. Like the scene with him in that diner bathroom, just white knuckling the edge of the sink while trying desperately to remember how to breathe.
01:00:03
Speaker
Because if he thinks about anything else, I'm Well, he's he's going to be stuck in that bathroom for, you know, at least the next 10 minutes because that's, you know, only so long as he doesn't feed the panic attack. But anyway, i've just I would really like to see more of that explored when it comes to his character, to see more of him, like, actively struggling struggling with his trauma and grief and how, like, shoving all of that into a box that he's never, ever going to open again forever is going to fail spectacularly in the self-fulfilling prophecy kind of way. And to see, like, the poetry slash catharsis as he lives up to that nickname that he hates when he realizes That he has to accept all the pieces of himself, including the ones he'd rather forget or hide.
01:00:38
Speaker
you You know, the sum total of who he is and just what started as like this little funny aside comes full circle. You know what? Play the fucking clip, Daryl. Again, it's like poetry. It's sort of, they rhyme.
01:00:51
Speaker
So Daryl, you did not read Kirkoa, you said, right? No. include the Including the fall of the House of X, right? Right. Okay, so... There was some shit that happened there. That's all I have to say about that.
01:01:05
Speaker
I, i ah I both, I hope one day you read it and I think you would, then we'll reflect on everything Betsy just said and then reflect on some of these issues of X and be like, holy shit, Betsy's a hundred percent right. They should dive into that. And geez, Scott went through some shit because everything you said also Scott about, I said Daryl about Scott being, he's basically captain America for mutants. I mean, he is, he is the mutant.
01:01:30
Speaker
And so that that they look at and like he he goes through a lot like some stuff go like, damn, anybody else would have broken. But Scott Summers, he makes it through it and he earns the hero title. And I love everything you just said, Betsy, because you're absolutely right. Like we should dive into that. Less the militant. And I wonder if the militant is him trying to.
01:01:53
Speaker
ah have a face or what is that? a I don't know the right word, but like he's putting up a front. Yeah. Like, you know, putting up this kind of mask to hide all of that. But if that's the case and let's explore that, let's talk about it. Yes. Let's crack it. Let's see what happens. I do love the moment when I forget the guy who the O&E guy, military guy comes to the, comes to Alaska and Scott's like, and the guy's like threatening him and Scott's like, go ahead, do it. Kill me.
01:02:18
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. yeah so was that why i mentioned Yeah, my wife is Phoenix and we have a mental, we have this telepathic bond. Go ahead and kill me and see what happens.
01:02:29
Speaker
After I find out. Yeah, yeah, that's right. And he's like, that's never mind. You can see how the space is like, oh shit, i forgot about
Phoenix Storyline and Jean Grey's Independence
01:02:38
Speaker
that. e And that's why this book is so challenging because the beginning you're like, where is this going? If Cassandra Nova is found out to be back, that seems like a plot we need to explore. But instead they go, oh, we're shifting off to the next little run, the next issues and a whole other adventure. And you're like, hold on, this lady's crazy. Yeah, it's not that the story is slow, it's that we don't get to the story for so long. Yes, that's a great way to put it.
01:03:06
Speaker
um Okay, well, speaking of Jean and Scott's wife, so do you guys want jump over to Phoenix? Let's. All right. i I'll start.
01:03:17
Speaker
actually really like this series. I love it. i I am not a jarb. I'm not a big Jean fan. She's fine. She's great. She's a wonderful character. um But like I'm not like, a ooh, I love Jean Grey. She's my favorite. But I did say, like, if Lili Simonson is writing her, I will absolutely read it.
01:03:34
Speaker
But one of the things that I just have really enjoyed the fact she's separated from the rest of the X-Men. Like we get to explore her actually ah being Phoenix and accepting this role as what she now has. And I thought Stephanie Phillips has been killing it on this book as a writer. I've enjoyed love the art.
01:03:53
Speaker
Um, it's just like Jean and Spurs and all her little cosmic allies. And like, it's like Nova and rocket and few things. Like I know some people dogged on the fact that the first story arc wasn't even from her perspective, but I think if you give that story a chance to finish it from beginning to end, you see why Phillips chose to do it that way. And it makes perfect sense why she does it that way. And it's really, really good.
01:04:16
Speaker
In fact, I think it was great. Uh, as far i as like story framing and, uh, um, by what happens at the end of that story arc, if you then go back and think about the beginning, all is oh, this is why she's doing this, and it makes perfect sense.
01:04:31
Speaker
It's very cyclical. It's like poetry. It rhymes. um so
01:04:37
Speaker
where Where is it? Where is it? Again, it's like poetry. It's sort a rhyme. I had to set you up for that one. um I do like it. um my My only notes on it is I think the art is so gorgeous.
01:04:50
Speaker
I don't really like a fill-in artist. I get it happens. People get tired. They need a break. I understand. But I really like that. And I also feel that Scott has had the chance to play the field a little bit.
01:05:02
Speaker
You know, even with Jean around, I feel like there's got to be some moment soon where Jean is like, you know, that Nova's got a cute ass or something like that, you know, like or something where Jean's like, I want to explore because I've been in love with Scott since I was a teenager. I've only ever really loved him. Sure. Logan's been around. and he'll always be around and I love Logan in a certain way and he's great but I've always been Scott's girl how come I've never been able to experience love outside of that and I you know maybe maybe Richard isn't the best choice but you know he's kind of cute and like she turns off the psychic rapport for just a little while and causes Scott to go like wait what just happened
01:05:44
Speaker
Exactly. I'm going to get cuckold. But anyway, so something like that, I think will be kind of fun to like just continue to dive into her character as a person um as well as a goddess. Right. So anyway, I'm very enjoying Phoenix.
01:05:57
Speaker
I'm surprised, totally surprised by this book because I was like, I did not. I saw it. was like, I don't last like five issues, but no, I'm like, this is one I'm really, really liking. I don't know. What are your thoughts? i I think it it really does explore the potential that a character like Phoenix has. and I've got to saw it. Even though you know I came in after Jean was gone, but I knew the whole Phoenix baggage.
01:06:25
Speaker
My favorite Phoenix is always going to be Rachel. But hey, ma mom gets to be Phoenix. So, um you know, mom mom did it first. So mom gets to be Phoenix.
01:06:37
Speaker
Sure. And mom said it's my turn to Phoenix. Yes. Yeah. I like that by being the cosmic book, it does have its own identity apart from the rest of them. Well, most of them anyway, we'll get to that later.
01:06:53
Speaker
But um you know I'm really liking the cosmic aspect of it. um I like Scott in the first few pages of number one so much better than the Scott that I was seeing at the same time in X-Men.
01:07:10
Speaker
Yeah. Like we were just talking about. And you know he seemed more like a person than a character. if that makes sense. And, and also not pertinent to the plot. I just want to throw it out there that I still hate the current overworked Nova costume.
01:07:31
Speaker
Yeah. yeah I just did the, all, all of the greebleys and everything. It's just give him the classic, but yeah, I, I'm liking this more than I thought I would.
01:07:43
Speaker
Um, I wouldn't put it at the top of my list of them, but it is, it's definitely one of the more solid of the entire line.
01:07:54
Speaker
Betsy? Yeah, like I didn't actually write any notes on this. So this is, again, going to be very incoherent because I'm not very good at making the thinking thoughts come out the talking mouth. So bear with me. ah But i totally agree with what you said about like the book kind of having its own identity and getting to see Phoenix just kind of be Phoenix.
01:08:15
Speaker
I feel like so much of what we've seen with Jean has just kind of been exploring her as adjacent to all the rest of the X-Men, adjacent to Scott, adjacent to her kids, adjacent to these other things. It's always, it's never like,
01:08:27
Speaker
It's just Jean Grey. It's Jean Grey who is the friend of, a teammate of, you know, mother of, wife of, etc, e etc. So I thought it was just really nice to get to kind of explore her on her own again.
01:08:40
Speaker
the and I think it gave them the freedom to a lot more things than they would be able to do otherwise with her, especially like, you know, bringing her into space and and applying all these like cosmic level things.
01:08:51
Speaker
And actually, I think that brings in what you said about, like, you know, Jean kind of getting to explore her herself away from Scott, too. Because, you know, again, now she's finally, like, afraid to be her own person in this whole book. So that would be a pretty interesting way to ah explore it.
01:09:09
Speaker
And also, you know, for her. Yeah. I mean, like, you've got you've got infinite powers. You can do anything. e ah you you need to, like, have the courage
Criticism of NYX Series and Slacktivism
01:09:19
Speaker
to go do it. And I love seeing this happening. And and just from a story perspective, once Phoenix is on the team, there's nothing you all can't do.
01:09:31
Speaker
And so it kind of eliminates a lot of conflict. And so you've got to shove her off somewhere. So it makes sense. Yeah, because either you have to have Jean Grey who doesn't have Phoenix powers so that you can keep everything level, or she does have Phoenix powers and then you have to find a way to balance that and world-ending threats with, okay, and then we you know have a bunch of other people here.
01:09:50
Speaker
Omega level or not, they're not the Phoenix level. That's the whole ballgame. Yeah. so i I do have to take exception with one thing that you said, Brev. you she may know She may notice that Rich Rider has a cute butt, but Betsy will back me up on this. Ain't got nothing on Nightwing's.
01:10:08
Speaker
Well, I mean, it goes without saying. It's not the same, but it's not the same universe. So if, you know, Dick Grayson shows up, big all all bets are off, right? mean, you know Wink Enterprises has that ass insured for like billions upon billions of dollars.
01:10:20
Speaker
Oh, of course. so I don't know if it's issue that's coming out, but one that's already, or it' come that is coming out has already come out, but it's like a... something about a whole DC comic about Nightwing's butt. It's a digital comic, nothing but B-U-T-T, Nightwing. That's it. that's it They understood the assignment. That's all I'm saying. I love it. i love it and like you know Ass aside, Dick Grayson is one of my favorite superheroes, period. I just love that He's the best boy. I love him.
01:10:50
Speaker
he's He's amazing. um okay so Going from Phoenix, ah let's step into NYX. Okay, i can I can sum up my feelings about and NYX with one audio clip.
01:11:05
Speaker
How do you do fellow kids?
01:11:10
Speaker
Oh, God! Yes! Okay. oh Yeah, go ahead. ah I was just going to say, i I have notes about a few specific issues here as I was taking notes, but...
01:11:26
Speaker
Really, it boils down to one of the notes that I have is there's one point in number three where Sophie asks Kamala, are you just shouting political slogans?
01:11:39
Speaker
And that's just sort of what the book felt like from start to finish. No subtlety, no nuance. And it it's like they went into it saying, this is going to be the socially relevant X-book.
01:11:55
Speaker
Yep. And while I have no issue with that as a concept, please handle it well with characters instead of caricatures.
01:12:07
Speaker
And, you know, just give give me a good engaging story rather than jumping from one, one you know, slogan to another.
01:12:19
Speaker
who Now, we have a word for that in those kind of communities. It's called slacktivism. It's like the idea that tweeting a slogan is the height of praxis. And that's kind of what this whole thing kind of felt like to me, like slacktivism.
01:12:36
Speaker
Yeah.
Balancing Big Ideas with Storytelling
01:12:38
Speaker
I wanted to like this book. I really wanted to like it. uh when it comes to any of this sort of allegory or metaphor it's and how it's done right it's like that's totally fine if if you want to have it whether it's whether it's liberally minded or conservatively minded you just got to make it so it's not so on the nose you gotta you gotta you gotta the writing is where it wins you and if it's if you feel like you're being propagandized or preached at then it's like oh i'm gonna close this book and be done with it
01:13:11
Speaker
So i you just can't answer it. It's why I don't watch a lot of Christian films because I don't want to be missioned. I just want to watch it. But I'll watch something like Silence by by Martin Scorsese because even though that's a completely ah religious movie, it's not preaching at you. Anyway, I digress.
01:13:28
Speaker
This is not a movie podcast. already do one of those. I thought this was a big... My first thought was big ideas that does not a series make. um I saw a lot of potential in this to be a really interesting book.
01:13:39
Speaker
But I think what I'm seeing and reading and researching is that Jackson and Lansing, they have good ideas and can't stick to landing.
01:13:50
Speaker
I'm sorry. After read this, after they hear this, I'm sorry, guys. like That's what I keep reading. Can't get past usually by issue 10 in most things. Because it feels like you have like Claremontian or David Michelin Peter David concepts in your mind. Like I have a long game I'm playing, but I can't do the small game.
01:14:09
Speaker
And so if you can't do the small game in the monthly book, then you can't win the readers to come back for your long game. So you got to win them every issue to issue. And if you can't do that, then yeah, you're going to get canceled. Sorry.
01:14:20
Speaker
And not canceled in the way we talk about today, but just like your book gets canceled. Sorry, guys. um there There will be no more book. There will be no more book. and And it's unfortunate because I don't think they're necessarily terrible writers, but it's like, but, but like, you've got to be able to in the month, in the monthly periodically, you gotta, gotta get in, gotta give you the theme.
01:14:41
Speaker
I really liked the issue. The first issue of the, okay, this is a good setup. I like where this could go. And by the time it was over, I said, I said to myself, you completely lost your own great concept here in in your milieu of just gobbledy goop of,
01:14:54
Speaker
slogans and look at us we're gonna preach and I'm like guys no that's not that's not what we need to hear and we just need like a fun adventure book where these kids are learning how to behave outside of Krakoa and what the world now means I thought that um Spoiler alert, ah I would actually have switched the bad guys here between Dazzler and and NYX because I thought Mojo was a terrible bad guy for this because he has no, from my understanding, he has no connection with any of these kids whatsoever.
01:15:26
Speaker
um and to be clear for those that didn't read it this is basically a teen early 20s set book or not not time for it but like all the main characters are like late teens early 20s that have been the diaspora from Krakoa back to down New York as mutants and they're trying to figure out how they're going to live great cool and it's just one slogan after another I like to issue three I like what they did with the lizard boy, Anole, and with the Morlocks. I liked that.
01:15:55
Speaker
um But
Coalition-building in Comics
01:15:56
Speaker
I felt like Mojo was the wrong person, here wrong bad guy for this, totally wrong bad guy. I felt having Madrox in here, clone of Madrox being a, um trying to, being an older generation mutant who's lived through this stuff before and trying to fuck with the kids would have been a much more interesting villain.
01:16:15
Speaker
Then what we got and I would have put Mojo in Dazzler and I will tell you all why when we get Dazzler. But this is this this book was just a wasted. It was a waste of potential.
01:16:29
Speaker
I did think that there was a really interesting idea in issue number four where you you had Prodigy narrating it. And part of his narration dealt with humans fear of mutants exists because public mutants have superhero and villain aliases and they're always fighting.
01:16:52
Speaker
And that's, you know what, that that's a decent angle. I hadn't thought of it that way before. Nice angle. I like it. and And it ended there.
01:17:03
Speaker
Yeah. You know, my note says, is it enough to hang a series on? Will the book even try? Cue the Morgan Freeman narration. The book, in fact, did not even try.
01:17:14
Speaker
i was thinking more arrested development narration, but yeah, same thing. It works. What about you, Betsy? What do you think? Yeah, like. I feel like they took some big swings and just none of it really connected the way I think they wanted it to.
01:17:30
Speaker
And I think part of that is, i don't know, I mean, maybe I'm just a little too jaded and cynical to properly enjoy this. Like, you know, I'm sitting here looking at what the characters are doing. Like they're building coalitions and community and creating that community through an anti-oppression framework and setting up mutual aid networks and growing their movement and commuting their message through nonviolent direct action.
01:17:48
Speaker
And, you know, it's pretty much everything that I want the world to be in a lot of stuff that I've done, but like, I'm just, I'm too distracted by my own disbelief that they could actually make this happen the way they did. Like,
Narrative Cohesion Challenges
01:17:57
Speaker
I don't know. How are you supposed to organize in less than 24 hours and successfully shift like that many people across what we in the trade call your spectrum of allies? Like, maybe it just felt a little too naive to me. I don't know.
01:18:09
Speaker
But then I think some of that might have also had to do just with kind of how the actual work of a campaign all seems to happen off panel. Like we go from seeing David getting arrested and everyone being on the outs after, you know, battling Killian to Cinch just like walking into their well-established community space clubhouse and we don't get to see any of the work in between.
01:18:30
Speaker
ready But I think that kind of goes to what you were saying, Brev. It's like, I have to wonder how much of that stems from the limitations of comic as a medium. Like, you know, when you only have so much space to tell a story and so much time to put all the pieces of that story together while also living under constant threat that every plan or plot thread you might have to dig into those things like could be thrown out at an instant at the whims of just an editorial mandate and I have to imagine it makes it hard to really like go in on the things that you want to do because you know but you have to maintain some level of narrative cohesion and as much as the story is about the journey rather than the the destination how do you fully tell about the journey when you don't know if the powers that be will even let you reach the destination before they pull the plug and I think that's kind of what was happening where it was
01:19:13
Speaker
We have all these things we want to talk about, but we don't know if we'll get to get there. So we're just going to
X-Force's Lack of Engagement
01:19:17
Speaker
breeze past this and move on to the next thing to hit all our big ideas. But in hitting all the big ideas, they miss all the things that make those big ideas relevant.
01:19:25
Speaker
Yes, yes, yes. And you look back at the, sorry, you look back at the, I'm going to take this away. And you look at some of the issues and you go like, then what was the point of issue two?
01:19:36
Speaker
like Like, yeah why why did Laura go on this mission into Mojo's whatever? like Then why that? And then why the Dazzler concert? And then and then going back to what Daryl said, then X-Man hunt completely derails.
01:19:50
Speaker
You got 10 issues and three of the 10 right there are are are taking up space that you could have fleshed out some of these other bits of conflict to create some of these things. And then have weight to this to this ah facility that they actually make that you don't get to see them make. But if you you see them make it now, wait. So when it when it gets yeah hurt or destroyed, it actually matters to the reader instead of, oh, look, at well, that sucks.
01:20:12
Speaker
But like it matters. So it's like within what then that goes back, I think, to to the planning as a writing team to be like, OK, every issue has to be building up to something. And it can't be just minor little doodads going around that has to matter.
01:20:25
Speaker
Because we don't know we're going to get canceled. So we got to get this. We're also one of like, should should so some of these offshoots have been five issue limited series? And let's see if it lasts. Let's see if we get somebody to buy it. And if it does, then we'll kick it off. But instead, it's like, we're going to give you a whole series run. It's like, don't know what's going to happen.
01:20:42
Speaker
Yeah, we're maybe going to give you a whole series run. And it's OK. Well, we're going to kind of plan for a whole series and not a whole series at the same time. And in the end, like not quite plan at all. And with this book in particular, okay, clearly you know there they're putting Ms. Marvel front and center yeahp since bringing her into the X books.
01:21:03
Speaker
They're putting her front and center. How much of the run being only 10 issues was already predetermined by her being the through line?
01:21:14
Speaker
Of the next big crossover that's outside in its own books in the giant size yeah crossover thing. Or are we giving them too much credit on planning that too?
01:21:28
Speaker
i Who can say? I read that and I think we are giving too much credit for that. I haven't read it, but I know it's there. At the end of...
01:21:40
Speaker
it at the end of the letters page in number 10, they're like, okay, that's the, this is the last issue of and NYX, but Kamala goes off into giant size X-Men and that's where her story goes. So was it 10 from the beginning? Was it, they saw the numbers were trash and said, okay, you have until number 10 to wrap everything up and we're shoving her off into this mini series.
01:22:09
Speaker
I feel like it was probably that second one. I do too. So, yeah, because they did they took the two most popular characters, Laura and Kamala, and they put them in different books and everybody else got lost.
01:22:24
Speaker
yes So Laura gets her own however long it's going to last. um So. All right, so we did it in my X. We all kind of feel that I think it's similar about that. um
LGBTQ+ Relationships in X-Men
01:22:37
Speaker
listen What do we have next but on the timeline? We have X-Force.
01:22:42
Speaker
Oh boy. Oh boy. The long sigh. Oh, I, okay. I just saw your notes on X-Factor. I can't wait to get to that. x experts Yeah. I guess X-Factor too.
01:22:54
Speaker
I guess X-Factor's happened. I'm not, I know I read it. I know man thing shows up And other than that, I'm really not sure what else happened in that book. I know it was a book that happened. That's all I can really say about it. I mean, my note starts off with seriously, what is this book?
01:23:11
Speaker
yeah I like the characters that earn it well enough, but what are what are they doing and why? It's a standard, I've brought you together for a purpose, but we'll be vague about it kind of thing. Okay, so?
01:23:25
Speaker
Yeah. so yeah So what? It never felt earth shattering that Forge wanted us to make it feel like it was. Like it never felt like something bad could really ever happen because you knew it wasn't in a big two comic. Like that was so frustrating. books and They kind of like breeze past half the stuff that they were like doing to stop this lowercase a apocalypse. Anyway, you just saw like, you know, the one panel that's like, okay, they went here and did this and they went here and did this. And it's like, why was any of that significant anyway?
01:23:56
Speaker
Yeah. and it And it wasn't dramatic enough. Like we were talking earlier, there, there wasn't enough of the, the interpersonal connections to make you, to give you that. I mean, there was some about Rachel and Betsy. a look at that bets I know was such a weird experience. I have a whole note. about But at the same time, I mean, after a while, as much as I loved them as a couple, I don't feel they have to be in every book together.
01:24:19
Speaker
um It's, it's, it's okay. I love the fact that people are like, Oh, but Rachel's not a lesbian. I'm like, guys, Rachel's been a lesbian since. Like, oh, honey, you're so cute.
01:24:31
Speaker
That's adorable. Yeah. lot them on head I mean, Claremont has said for years that he in Excalibur, he wanted to get Kitty and Rachel together. So it makes total sense.
01:24:44
Speaker
ah And Alistair Stewart's all over her the whole time. And she's like, yeah, I'm good. Thanks. But um anyway, yeah. yeah ah Yeah, we're we're good. um But like, um because i cause I felt like, okay, Rachel works in this book, but Betsy doesn't because she has other shit she's got to do. She's Captain fucking Britain, right? like Not even hearing you guys talk about this using my name is weird.
01:25:06
Speaker
Yes, ah the purple-haired lady. No, but like... This book was like, what are we doing? And I can't believe i'm going to say this, but this is like the worst incarnation of X-Force I've ever read. And I've read some doozies. And this one was just like, what is happening here? Like, the villains weren't really that scary. Like, Diablo?
01:25:26
Speaker
That's like an Alpha Flight or Excalibur kind of goofy villain. Like, what this doesn't feel like anything fucking matters. Yeah. Like, you know, it's framed as this whole world-stopping world like saving the world stopping this lowercase a apocalypse through all these different like monster of the week episode issues but just every single one of those like you know episodes just felt really disconnected from each other like there were clear attempts at establishing some kind of connective tissue even beyond that like overarching like world saving thing like
01:25:57
Speaker
you know, bringing in Diablo, which, yeah, did that happened. That's all I can say. And this idea of, like, we got to teach Forge this lesson or whatever, but just all of that felt completely flat to me. It's like, even their attempts to establish this level of pathos through, like, Nori's noble sacrifice or the tension with Forge's 11th hour betrayal, it just all felt really empty and forced, like...
01:26:21
Speaker
those events happened because that's what comic books are supposed to do. So they filled in the blanks, bad lip style to get to some kind of resolution. that's you know and and even things reveal i'm sorry the big reveal tank being colossus i was like this feels like like oh okay cool i guess that's fine oh that was supposed to be a reveal oh okay yeah all right good for him we we're sorry that happened i don't know yeah and even even things like you man things guest appearance here i'm like
01:26:55
Speaker
Okay. So why? And then he shows up in Uncanny for like one issue and I'm like, okay, now that was fun. Yeah. Yeah. That was good use.
01:27:05
Speaker
That would kind of made sense. Yeah. um I love your note here. and Do you want to go into about Rachel and Captain Britain? Yeah. was like, I
Gail Simone's Writing Praise
01:27:12
Speaker
know you said that, you know, oh you they don't always have to be together, but for me, that was the most for Demon Quality of the Run because they're adorable and I love them and they must be protected at all costs.
01:27:21
Speaker
Yes, I am in fact calling her Captain Britain for all of this because saying my own name feels weird and reading it over and over again which just fucking surreal. Like, is this how you people with common names feel all the time? Like the characters are yelling at you?
01:27:34
Speaker
i don't don't like it. It's weird. Maybe that's why I also kind of had a hard time enjoying it too. Every time I read my own name, it took me just right out of the story, but that's kind of a personal thing anyway. But, you know, so need I mean, I totally get what you say about they don't always have to be together, but at least it was something fun and nice.
01:27:50
Speaker
It was the most character. That was only thing take away from that. Like, it was the part that I thought to myself, like, because I enjoyed the Betsy Braddock Captain Britain miniseries. I enjoyed Knights of X. I enjoyed Excalibur. I was like,
01:28:03
Speaker
all the man babies crying about that. She was captain Britain. I'm like, motherfuckers, that was kind of part of the point. If you'd read the original captain Britain stuff, like I did, cause I care, you would know no she's, she, i don know of course I did. She wanted to be captain Britain for decades.
01:28:18
Speaker
That's what her goal was. and So she finally got it. Now she's learning this sucks. I don't want to be captain Britain, but I've taken on the mantle. So like, that's cool. And I want to see more of that. So I want them, i want them together And I don't mind if they're apart, because I think it's good for both. But I mean, like I don't want them in a shitty book like this. Sorry. Like, give them something to do.
01:28:40
Speaker
Yes! Yes! Sorry. I just, yeah. and And to answer your question, Betsy, well, to answer your question kind of with a hypothetical about you know seeing your name over and over again, imagine watching every episode of New Heart and being named Daryl.
01:28:58
Speaker
my dare front my brother daryl i wouldn't know i wouldn't know what that pain is like so um i usually don't all right so let's go to what i think we can all agree at least had the best start of any of these and that's uncanny x-men yes yes let's go to uncanny gail simone's uh gail simone's first run out here so So yeah this is the one that I went into really actively wanting to read because I really like Gale's work. ah
01:29:33
Speaker
At first, I was kind of hesitant about the apparent small scale and the new young mutants, the outliers. ah But it's the series that i that seems to have the most heart to me.
01:29:48
Speaker
Um, it seems to have a good focus on the characters.
01:29:55
Speaker
I, I wish Kitty was in this book. I already mentioned that. Um, I think she would fit Gail Simone's writing style really, really well. Um,
Uncanny X-Men's Character-Driven Stories
01:30:06
Speaker
it had,
01:30:07
Speaker
had better use of man thing than X-Force had. And I'm really, really interested in the current storyline that they've been setting up with New Orleans declaring itself a a sanctuary city for mutants.
01:30:26
Speaker
he Yeah, that's cool. And hi I laughed my ass off when they were meeting with the mayor of New Orleans, who's showing them the mock-up of, you know like the mutant-themed area of of the French Quarter.
01:30:43
Speaker
and And she's going over, oh, Nightcrawler, you... you you trend really, really well with women. Women think you're you crazy hot. and you know and Jubilee's like, what about me? And she tells Jubilee, and you know oh and and Mr. Gambit, you trend really, really well with women too. and And Miss Rogue, and Rogue's like, yeah, I know, horny guys.
01:31:12
Speaker
ah ye you know that I laughed my ass off at that. It's... i still have I still have thoughts about it still being small scale.
01:31:25
Speaker
And i get that Simone is giving it its own flavor and setting where they're they're set just at the house. they They don't have a base of operations. They don't have a danger room.
01:31:42
Speaker
And they haven't really been much of a super team yet. yeah And it's like there's there's hints of all of that.
01:31:55
Speaker
It's still my favorite of the current line of books. It's the one that I am still voluntarily reading.
01:32:05
Speaker
But, ah you know, there's something that's missing. I don't know what it is. um Betsy and I were talking a ah couple of weeks ago at one of our games that...
01:32:17
Speaker
Of the new the new kids, I could mostly take or leave, but I really have surprisingly found myself interested in Death Dream.
01:32:29
Speaker
so He's had interesting. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Yeah. he' He's unique, and he is... um like Her voice for him is is really good yeah Yeah, not going to lie, I went in thinking he was going to be what my generation referred to as Hot Topic Trash Babies.
01:32:47
Speaker
a And like, he is that a little bit, but there's so much more to him that just I think is going to make for a really interesting character to dig into as the series goes on.
01:32:59
Speaker
Yeah. What are your thoughts, Betsy? But i think you have thoughts, Brev. I do, I do. I don't hear Betsy's thoughts. Yeah, I mean, you know, I also was really looking forward to this. I am a big fan of Gail Simone, and genuinely so much of this I thought was just so fucking good. Like, you know, I love these kids. I love the outliers. They're wonderful, and if anything were to happen to them, I would kill everyone in this room, and then myself.
01:33:26
Speaker
was gonna say it. But I think I also just to have really enjoyed some of the deep character exploration that we're getting, like, I really love the scene where Rogue just looks Logan like straight in the eye and says, dude, you have PTSD.
01:33:40
Speaker
And it's like, I know we're talking about mutants, but I can't think of a better way to describe it than just to say I like these human stories. And you know I like that it was actually just a place where you could let that moment sit and have to kind of just let it sit there and breathe.
01:33:55
Speaker
and
Introducing New Mutant Characters
01:33:56
Speaker
Except that that's like part of the story, but it's also not like you know the complete focus of the story. I think they're also doing a better job, or Gail Simone is just doing a better job in this. like Kind of what I think X-Men was trying to do, where you have places to shift the spotlight to different characters. But I feel like she's managed to make it a little more cohesive.
01:34:14
Speaker
And that it does feel like there's more connective tissue. As much as some of them are one-offs, I feel like it's shorter one-offs that easily get right back into what the core of the story is.
01:34:26
Speaker
And as much as it is small scale, in a way, I kind of am enjoying the small scale. I like that it's kind of building something from literally nothing in a way that I don't think the other books are doing. Like, I'm trying to figure out how to put this into words. Like, as much as, you know, I would agree that it's missing something, and I also don't know what that something is, i do think there's just something to be said for what seems like just this really scrappy group of individuals, kind of like clawing their way out from ah horrible tragedy to build something new and maybe this is kind of like what i wanted to mix with the whole community building thing because i think they're honestly doing a better job of it here in uncanny
01:35:09
Speaker
yeah what else was i gonna say oh also i really do like calico because i think it's fun just seeing a horse girl i have a theory that the horse is the mutant and not her Honestly, that's what I was thinking the whole time, and I love it.
01:35:24
Speaker
and and And again, when I sent that over to Gail Simone, she gave me a like.
01:35:30
Speaker
um ah So I should. So i have I have conflicting things with this book. First of all, I think David Marquez's art is gorgeous. Yes. I think this is the best set of characters in in any of the books. Like, obviously, it's it's Rogue, Gambit, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, and Jubilee. Like, okay.
01:35:48
Speaker
So the other four just add to it. like Those five are just those fives like, well, okay, yeah, these are like the best some of the best characters in the X-Men. Throw Storm and Kitty in here and I'm like, you don't need any other books. This is it. This is the book. i mean, like it's over.
01:36:03
Speaker
um ah But like ah i led I love that first arc with the hag with that witch. Oh, I thought that was so good. Yeah, it was Stereogon. thought was great. Yes. I thought, oh here we go. This is awesome.
01:36:15
Speaker
Yeah, you know how they stuck with me. Yes, she's so... That was so cool. And I love that that Rogue going at it with her. And I thought, it's like oh my God, this is really good. And I think i think Gail has an amazing...
01:36:26
Speaker
She has the voice of all these characters down. This is the most Claremont of any of these books. And she is, Gail is doing her own thing. It's her, but as she is channeling Chris through all of this stuff. It's like making her own, but still like, okay, I got i gotta to do the thing that Chris did so well.
01:36:43
Speaker
Give it my own spin. But like, this is what the fans want. I think this is the most, i don't want to use the fan service, but i think this is the most that people are going to be like point to this book to say this is the X-Men for me.
01:36:57
Speaker
um My my my concern is so far that the the outliers have taken such a prominent role in the book that I feel like Kurt, Julie and Logan are pushed to the side.
01:37:10
Speaker
And I really am not enjoying the Wolverine book very much. And so I really want my time with Logan in there and I love him as an X-Man. And I know it's such a man baby thing to say but I like Wolverine I do i think he's a great character and I want to see more of him I'm okay with that and I like his relationship with all of the other people in here he has one with Rogue he has one with Gambit sort of yeah he does and he he definitely has one with Nightcrawler and Jubilee but like I want to see more of that and not just him and Jorts and nothing else which is cute but that's fine but like I want to see more of that her voice for Rogue and Gambit is awesome I there are times that reading this book I'm like why don't you just rename this Rogue and the Outliers
01:37:48
Speaker
And because that's how it kind of feels. So that's my concern. However, you all have made me think about like, this could be a case of... Gail is setting up a whole bunch of dominoes to put together when we come back from Age of Revelation and then start launching those and then knocking them down and causing real tragedy.
01:38:08
Speaker
All of those things that we wanted to see in NYX, like you just said, Betsy, but this is doing it better, could absolutely be what happens in this book where then I go back and go, okay, now I get why we spent so much time doing all these other things because we needed to get to this point to to care.
01:38:24
Speaker
Yeah, like i don't want to jinx it, but that's kind of the feeling that I was getting. yeah Yeah, I hadn't put that together. I read too many fucking comic books until like we're talking right now. I'm like, OK, I can see that. And so maybe I just need to I'm still going to buy it because it is.
01:38:37
Speaker
I love the X-Men, but this is this is still one of my favorites of it. but i'm just getting frustrated being like, OK, I like them. I do. I really do like the outliers. I really like all four of them a lot. I i think Jitter is fun. I like Calico. i like um a Death Dream and the other guy Renegade. What's his name?
01:38:57
Speaker
Ransom, I think. Ransom. I'm going to say that's what the name was. yeah Sunspot's cousin. Yeah, there we go. But they're not from the same... Whatever. Yeah, so i'm I'm... Yeah, it's... Yes.
01:39:11
Speaker
Well, it's like... ah Also, I've probably read too many comics because... I feel that you know like the the mayor of New Orleans is being genuine and the woman whose kid's nightcrawler saved is being genuine in trying to set up you know a safe haven for mutants and everything. But that this is comics. There's another shoe that's going to be dropping.
01:39:36
Speaker
feels a little too happy. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's what like is keeping me there because I know the shoe is going to drop and the fact that I'm not really sure where it's going to come from or whose shoe it's going to be.
01:39:48
Speaker
part of that has me on the edge of my seat waiting to see how that plays out because it always does. You're both absolutely right. I need to take a step back out of my own head and be like, you know what, this is what's going to happen. And and but and
X-Factor's Lackluster Execution
01:40:01
Speaker
and let's like let's be clear.
01:40:02
Speaker
Of all three books, all three main X titles have all introduced new character, new mutants, if you will. These four are the out are absolutely the standouts. The others are like absolutely forgettable in my mind. These four are the ones like these these four actually work as characters individually and feel like characters, like you know genuine people that exist in the universe.
01:40:22
Speaker
Yes, exactly. And she balances them so well. Okay. i And Rev, knowing that, like me, you follow Gale on social media, I have two questions for you.
01:40:35
Speaker
Yeah. Question number one. How funny do you think it is that she's writing Gambit and writing him so well after her running gag of Gambit is an arc? sophisticated That's funny.
01:40:49
Speaker
Question number two. how How hard do you think she had to restrain herself from having someone make a Cyclops has heat vision joke in one of the crossovers? I saw that. Yes.
01:41:02
Speaker
She hates Cyclops. I would love, I would used to just read through the threads on X when I was when i was still on there. And like her and Fabian Niciasa going, picking at each other. i i thought that was hilarious. Yes.
01:41:18
Speaker
It's also fun watching her and Tom Taylor. Yeah. have have their quote-unquote feud. And that's the thing that I love about all these people is like, their fans get all upset with like, you know these people are friends, right? Like, they're just taking the piss. They're having fun. Yeah.
01:41:34
Speaker
ah Okay, so um I guess let's go from Uncanny and let's talk about X Factor. Yay! I think the first words I thought of, I wrote down was... Yeah, we have to.
01:41:47
Speaker
The first words ever found butwar over I wrote down was like, fucking stupid. I'm sorry. From concept to finish, this this book to me just fell flat from the from the word, from the jump.
01:41:57
Speaker
I could not get into this. It felt like this has been something was supposed to be edgy about 15 years ago. And it's just not, it just wait it didn't work. It wasn't, I didn't think it was funny. I didn't think it was scathing or political or interesting or like nothing in it worked. The the grandma was my favorite part. I love her. Yeah. i was like, well, that's cool. She's fun. But like everybody else was like, this is still like, how many times is Alex going to get duped?
01:42:23
Speaker
You know, i mean, it's like, God, dude, stop, like fucking wise up a little bit, you know, like stop being everybody's like pawn and everything you do. Like eventually you think of something like, you know what, maybe it is me.
01:42:36
Speaker
Maybe I'm the problem. Maybe I enable people too much, but like I have an idea where you would go with this book. like if you were to relaunch it, but I want to hear your all's opinions about this book before I tell you my, as the writer and me, is like i if I were to do this book and like give it, if I'm, if, if I were given the reins from Tom Brevoort, this is what I would tell a new team for X Factor, but go ahead. What do you guys think of this book?
01:43:02
Speaker
Go ahead, Betsy. Are you sure? Because I have a lot of text here. You do. It's great. ah because Well, so, cause I, I'm trying to more or less formulate everything,
01:43:14
Speaker
beyond the one sentence that I wrote, which is, okay, another corporate online social media concept. Woo. ba You know, it's like, I got i got the distinct s sense that this book wanted to be part Suicide Squad, part Giffen-Dimiteus Justice League.
01:43:39
Speaker
Yeah. And it failed on both counts. Horribly. Yeah. yeah And it it's like, ooh, look, hey, hey, they're they're filming all their missions for social media.
01:43:52
Speaker
Isn't that relevant? And isn't that, it and I'm going to play it again. I was going to say, yes.
01:44:00
Speaker
Yeah. So, you know, it's like, ah there i it was something that liked about it. It was interesting when the New Warriors did it to kick off Civil War.
01:44:12
Speaker
Which was 15 years ago. 20 years ago. It's no longer interesting. And I feel like it wasn't nearly as heavy handed. Maybe that's just the rose-tainted goggles of the past. but It wasn't.
01:44:23
Speaker
and This goes back to what you all were saying earlier about NYX. This is hitting everything on the fucking nose. And it's like, guys, you need more subtlety than this. And also, you thinking of you mentioning how many times can can Havoc be duped.
01:44:38
Speaker
And we're Roll the tape back to my top you know X-books that weren't Claremont. Peter David's first X-Factor run, he actually gave Havoc a personality.
01:44:53
Speaker
e he gave personnette He gave Havoc a personality. He gave Havoc you know skills. and you he He was a leader, and he wanted to be a leader, but you know I also don't want to be a carbon copy of my brother Scott.
01:45:11
Speaker
And so i I compare portrayals of pretty much all of the cast members from that run of X Factor to that run of X Factor.
01:45:24
Speaker
And boy,
01:45:28
Speaker
Alex and Lorna in this but no I can i got nothing for this this book you you can't not compare them they're this they're the characters that are in both books and the both books are called X Factor exactly as unfair as that is I'm ready though I'm going to get my popcorn out I want Betsy Okay. Because I tried really hard to find some good things to bring out of this. And I did, in fact, find some things. But, you know, I'm just going to start from the beginning because just... Okay.
01:46:03
Speaker
Honestly, like, I don't know how to begin to talk about X Factor. Like, well, first of all, at least not in a casual podcast-friendly way because, you know, we're not here to talk about theory. Although I could talk about that. We'd just be here for another two hours.
Alex and Polaris's Relationship
01:46:17
Speaker
And also the books that I would need are still in boxes. But anyway, like, what I definitely can say is I have a lot of mixed feelings about the messaging. Like, don't get me wrong, I love a good socio-political satire, and I'm all here for a takedown of, like, capitalism and the military industrial complex and the military entertainment complex and jingoism and corporate-controlled cultural hegemony.
01:46:40
Speaker
Or, you know, just... America, in a nutshell. Can I say that on this podcast, Daryl? Am I allowed to do that? You just did. You just did. Yep, I'm not taking it back. But just the execution of that messaging really just led me wanting, like, there were so many places where the satire just felt more, like, lampshady than anything else.
01:46:57
Speaker
Or, like, you know, it's trying to hold up a mirror to our society, but instead of actually challenging us, it's more like a means for us to admire our own reflection. And there's some gallows humor in there, but that's pretty much just to take the edge off a little bit and be like, oh, haha, I see what you did there.
01:47:10
Speaker
But it just, again, all of it falls kind of flat for me. So I dug really deep and I found some things to talk about that I could like.
01:47:20
Speaker
So the first thing that I thought hit the mark was Alex and Polaris, not like their relationship it was happening, but it was like, I thought it was a really, at the end, it was really like nuanced and realistic exploration of what happens to a relationship and the people in it.
01:47:35
Speaker
When you realize that you and your partner or partners have different beliefs that can never be reconciled. And like, I do mean never, like you know, sometimes there are things where there is no agree to disagree or ah i respect your opinion. And no matter how much you love someone, sometimes that love on its own isn't enough.
01:47:49
Speaker
Like sometimes you just have to let each other go and that's okay. It's not that people can't change. It's that no one can change another person because you can't decide that for anyone but yourself. And, you know, I like how that's where Polaris and Alex left things.
01:48:02
Speaker
Understanding that they weren't the same people who started their relationship and that as they drifted apart, so did each of their frameworks for understanding the world and their place in it. Like neither could respect or accept the other's choices, but they could respect that each of them had the right to be able to make choices for themselves. Yeah.
01:48:16
Speaker
And I don't I just really felt that part. That part I liked. here Also, I did like what they did with Jovius and how they contextualized his betrayal. like you know First he thought he died, and then he thought he was going to spend whatever remainder of his life getting vivisected by an organ harvesting a ring and watching as they boxed up these little pieces of him to sell off.
01:48:33
Speaker
Because, you know, let's be real, that's gotta fuck you up at least a little. And then he gets a say of execution, but only because American tax dollars bought him a new prison and a new jailer so they could do exactly what the organ harvesters were doing, literally in figuratively, you know, because they were, you know, again, commodifying his body for literal profit.
01:48:49
Speaker
But at the same time, it probably didn't feel like that because, you know, even if he was still in prison, he wasn't getting tortured on the daily. So when they made him a deal, it probably didn't feel like much of a choice to him because, you know, choice implies some kind of alternative.
01:49:00
Speaker
And I don't wonder if he even thought he had one at all. But, you know, unlike people ripping his organs out of his abdominal cavity every day, he can't really see the fallout of his actions from inside his cell. But I think at some point it finally hit him that he had become just like both his jailers, like selling lives, selling literal bodies for profit.
01:49:18
Speaker
And there was no coming back for him from that. He was the monster just like the humans always said mutants were. And what he originally saw as his ticket out, I think he reframed as like a twisted sort of punishment for himself or like a penance.
01:49:29
Speaker
In the end, like when given a choice, he chose to just give up and wallow in his monstrosity. And then, you know, finally, Granny Smite. She's perfect. I love her. I want to be her adopted grandchild. Yes, I already have grandparents, but there's nothing that says I can't have more.
01:49:43
Speaker
I love all of this. I have to tell you that you gave Jovius a lot more thoughts than I did. So, like, that's what you read there was beautiful. What you wrote read, a that was great.
01:49:55
Speaker
I love the part about Alex and Lorna because that is such an on-again, off-again relationship that is both... that is one that you like, oh, I want them to end up together, but it's like, but they really shouldn't.
01:50:06
Speaker
They really shouldn't. there' There's too much water under that bridge all these years. And if going to respect what other, I mean, you don't have, not everything has to be canon like we talked about, but if you're going respect the relationship and what has come before, then you have to realize like,
01:50:19
Speaker
Yes, every once in while they get together and fuck, but they really should not be together on a permanent basis. This is not a good thing. Just like, you know, let that Yeah. They can be F buddies for a little while and then be like, but we're not together.
01:50:31
Speaker
Like, okay, cool. Yeah. So... I have thoughts on how you can take this book, but Daryl, you got more thoughts than you wanted to. Oh, I was just going to say that trying trying to find something good.
01:50:43
Speaker
Speaking of Granny Smite, I did like the, I got a kick out of the one fight the that they were all in. i forget who they were. It might've been during X-Man hunt. I don't remember. like,
01:50:57
Speaker
What's her power? Oh, she can't die. Okay, so as long as we're not trying to kill her, there's nothing she can do, right? Right. And then she's like, crap.
01:51:09
Speaker
yes So much of book was just lost on me. I just did not. was like, what are what are we doing? So but my thoughts, when the book ended, I was like, you know, what would you have done differently? Or if you were given the reins, Brev, what would you do? And I was like, you know what I would do?
01:51:25
Speaker
I would say let's let's let's start up again. And I can see this in my head. Like we're going to do X Factor, another volume. And this time we're going to say Alex is done being somebody's pawn.
01:51:38
Speaker
He gets Frenzy and Polaris together. They assault Grandma Link in prison. They free everybody that's in there, all the prisoners, but the both the villains and the heroes that are there. The heroes go and and and and join Alex and and Frenzy and Polaris. And they make a new Mutant Liberation Front or something like that.
01:51:54
Speaker
But they also realize that all these villains that they also released are out there. And so now O&E is tracking them down. um The world now looks it out at Alex as you are the mutant terrorist. So even though he kind of is, he kind of isn't because he did free all those Krakoans civilians. Excuse me, refugees, whatever want to call them. Citizens.
01:52:12
Speaker
um And so like it'd be a classic X-Men story where now the X-Men are back on the run, on the run, on the run. They don't have a base anymore. in in in alaska they don't have a base they don't have a home in um chicago or or ah or Or New Orleans, like but they're literally on the run trying to get there. And Frenzy knows all these places, hideouts that they can go. and like So they're having to deal with all this stuff. And then Scott's on Alex, because why would you do that? And Alex is like, I'm tired of being everybody's pawn. I'm doing what's important. i'm doing the And he he becomes like the new voice of the mutant revolution.
01:52:43
Speaker
And I'm like, that would be something that would be really cool to start with them. Because I can almost see this moment where Magneto's like, Lorna, I've never been prouder of you than right now. And like, wow, that would be great, right? Like that's the kind of validation she would need, you know, from all these bipolar things that she's going through. Like someone is actually proud of her Yeah. So I would just, I just, I think like that's a story that you could take and run with literally and figuratively. That would be interesting to give them something to do based on where this book ended and like all that the plot lines that are sitting there and just actually make it good.
01:53:16
Speaker
the So anyway, yeah. So there's that. There's X-Factor. I mean, when you look back at the ones that got canceled, there's a reason. um And here we go. The most mislabeled of the series is so far Exceptional X-Men.
01:53:32
Speaker
um i i definitely went into this one really wanting and hoping to like it because kitty pride is my favorite x-man sure and i i i have a i have a problem
Critique of Exceptional X-Men
01:53:49
Speaker
calling her kate she'll always be kitty to me but you that that's just me um
01:53:58
Speaker
the first few issues, there was a good kiddie vibe. ah But there's, ah again, i i have it in the notes here before I even thought to pull the clip, you know, saying that I kind of liked the kids, but there was also a very big energy of... How do you do fellow kids?
01:54:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, honestly, I thought you were going to save that clip for this one.
01:54:22
Speaker
Well, if we went alphabetical, that it would have come up first here. um So, in other words, Brett fucked it up. So, sorry there. yeah Nah, it's all good. It's all good.
01:54:33
Speaker
there were There were a lot of times in this that it just feels like information got skipped over. Yes. like Like Bobby shows up.
01:54:44
Speaker
Bobby's acting kind of sketch. Kitty catches Bobby kind of having sketch and starts to confront him. We cut to another scene. They're okay now. Yeah. as what ah what What happened?
01:55:01
Speaker
Just give me the information. And it's just, it's like, look, here's here's Kitty and Emma. So that's why you want to buy this book. It's Kitty and Emma.
01:55:11
Speaker
Look, Kitty and Emma. Remember? Remember how they they used to like, you know, spar, you verbally jab at one another back in Astonishing X-Men? Well, here's Kitty and Emma.
01:55:25
Speaker
And they're two of the best X-Men characters in the pantheon of X-Men. And i don't know what Eve Ewing is doing here. Because I mean, like there there's nothing.
01:55:39
Speaker
Nothing happens in this book and nothing. No, I mean, we go we go. were we on issue 12 13 now i'm like there's we took us seven issues to get a villain in the door and and granted i like sinister so i'm okay with that but i'm like what's happening in this book this feels like a this feels like a teen romance book that would have been available in the nineteen fifty s And not even good a good one like Archie, but like a bad one that we never hear about anymore that you go like, wow, this was really neat. Look at these teens. Are they having fun? Aren't you having fun reading about them? No, not really.
01:56:14
Speaker
And I love Bobby Drake. I think he's one of he's one of my favorite characters. i think I think there's so much meat on the bone with Bobby that nobody is exploring. from everything that he can do from a power set to everything about him from a personal level to just so much. And like, and everybody wastes Iceman. I just don't understand it. But you have three characters that I'm like, these are great characters. They're wasted because we spent all this time talking about three characters that really nobody gives a shit about. and I don't know why you would give a shit about them.
Personal Connection with Kitty Pryde
01:56:41
Speaker
I,
01:56:41
Speaker
yeah I like bronze. She's kind of cool. She's interesting. Her silhouette would be cool. And she's she's kind of fun. She's doing my favorite, but I can't stand melee. or Is it Axo? Is that it? Yeah, I think it's Axo because she mentioned that it was like Axolotl.
01:56:56
Speaker
Oh God. knife a little animal yeah Yeah. My, my son has a shirt that says I ax a lot of questions. So anyway, it's better than the character.
01:57:07
Speaker
Uh, but, uh, I, I, this, is this is the first moment I will be dropping this as soon as age of revelation is out. I'm, I'm done. i can't, I can't anymore. My, my money's too valuable. I'll read it on Marvel unlimited.
01:57:19
Speaker
I'm fine. So, um, I, I think Betsy is our is our odd person out on this one. Yeah, because there were parts of this that actually liked. I'm missing some of my note, and I don't know where it went. But, you know, what again, I was trying to find the stuff that I liked. And, like, I didn't think I was going to end up liking just the stuff with Kitty as much as I did. But I didn't go in expecting that I was going to identify with so so heavily with Kitty specifically here.
01:57:48
Speaker
i think it was just, like, you know, watching her recover after, you know, like, whole bunch of shit and trying to figure out how to exist as a person, at least functionally, but never truly being able to leave the baggage of the past behind.
01:57:59
Speaker
and then also, like, working with a bunch of kids for altruistic reasons, but also, like, semi-selfish ones, because the efforts are also kind of grounded in a desire to keep them from making the mistake the same mistakes and hopefully give them the tools to make themselves a better, happier, healthier life.
01:58:14
Speaker
Yeah, that kind of made me feel way about things because, you know, I mean, between just the life that I've lived in literally what is now currently my day job. It's just, it kind of like checked a lot of boxes for just the stuff that I do on the daily, I guess.
01:58:30
Speaker
And that kind of like hit me where I live in some places. And it's like, I want there to be more for Kitty to do but the stuff that she is doing, some of it really is resonating with me.
01:58:44
Speaker
i think it's just, I want that to like go somewhere more interesting than it's going.
01:58:51
Speaker
And see, that that's where you know the reader's perspective that you're coming in from totally colors sometimes your reaction to a book. Because hearing you say that, oh, yeah, thinking back on the issues I read, that this is exactly what I hear you talk about you doing at work.
01:59:13
Speaker
And when we're hanging out you know either before games or just hanging out, it's like, oh, yeah. This is the book about if Betsy were an X-Man.
01:59:25
Speaker
It's like, you know, as much as I'm trying to make sure that the kids don't like eat crayons or, you know, decide the way to handle someone taking toy from them is to, you know, punch that other kid in the face.
01:59:37
Speaker
It's like, it's also just, there are a lot of things that would have made my life way easier and better as a kid. If I'd like known certain things and like had certain tools, but You know, there were things that I didn't know that people didn't know in general. Some of those tools didn't even exist.
01:59:54
Speaker
And ah kind of feel like that's part of what Kitty's doing here is like trying to let these kids live the life that she wished she would have been able to have. The stuff that, you know, she didn't have to be able to make the life for herself that she wanted.
02:00:08
Speaker
There are places where she mentioned that like she didn't have a choice in so many things or even though it she ostensibly did have a choice that kind of felt like she was being forced into a box anyway because in the end she was still limited by what she was given just the information that she had the tools that she had the place that she was at and that she wasn't really able to see the bigger picture until well after the fact that and also i gotta say that like tau just had me dying the whole time because like so much of reminded of Mia is a baby leftist like way back in the day, except that she's also like way more self-confident. And also she can actually play sports ball, which I cannot.
02:00:45
Speaker
good I love all that take. you know like it It's important, like Daryl said, you you bring to the you bring to the material your life and your perspective. And I think that's awesome.
02:00:57
Speaker
And in in all those things you said, i read it and I saw it. And I think my issue, no pun intended with a comic book, but like I want super heroics. and But I get that part of the point of the book is to keep the kids away from the super heroics as long as possible.
02:01:15
Speaker
But I'm going like, but eventually they're going to have to because it's the superhero book. It says X-Men on the tin. It says X-Men on the tin.
02:01:26
Speaker
Yeah. That's where you have to get to the point where you see them actively choosing to do the superheroing. But, you know, I feel like we're just not getting there as fast as I would like. Yeah, I'm like the first, like, and this is where I'm struggling with. And then to Daryl's point, it was like, you know, Bobby's acted sketch and you find out he's talking to Rogue about what Kitty's doing and Kitty gets all mad about that. I'm like, okay, so does does every, this so is Scott, Rogue and and Kitty all hate one another? Like, what?
02:01:55
Speaker
when did that happen like where's the issue that showed the three of them like all telling each other fuck off it's like what yeah there's definitely missing context there yeah and so it's just stressed ah and it was like and i and i know kitty i get it because she's dealing with the fact like she went on a murder spree during um the half the the fall of the house of x like and like they referenced that a little bit Yeah.
02:02:16
Speaker
I mean, there was it was pretty badass, but at the same time, like, oh, but she is still, you know, she's like in her late 20s, and so she's still dealing with that. Like, maybe I didn't. That's little traumatizing, to say the least. Yeah, like, well, I took some lives. Like, there it's ah it was you. It was you or them.
02:02:30
Speaker
So and in that choice, it's going to be them. then you have to live with what happens after. True, they don't. So, you know, and it was some really good points. And maybe I'm being a little harsh to the book, but the same time, like, going like,
02:02:43
Speaker
I need something here and I'm not getting what I need out of this book. So maybe just, you know, I'm being a little, I'm being, i maybe i'm just being a dick, but I need like, I almost, here's the issue. I think if this book
X-Men Crossover Ideas
02:02:55
Speaker
was Kitty, Emma and Bobby and all of these new mutants that we're seeing, then I'd be like, okay, here we go. This is like the new mutant teaching book and I can get on board with that. But instead I've got three books that,
02:03:08
Speaker
with or we've got three books with a whole bunch of new mutants in them for various misandry reasons. I get it. But it's like, but they're all the all these kids are peppered through and I'm like, oh my God, how how many characters I got to keep up with? Whereas like if there's a book where all them focused on one, okay, I can focus on that.
02:03:25
Speaker
This is the book that's this, but instead the rest of them are all kind of peppered through. and I'm like, okay. Oh, that that just triggered. and i Now here is a crossover that I would like to see from these books.
02:03:39
Speaker
Have the quote-unquote new mutants, not capitalized, yes from each of the three main books rotate wrote just temporarily for the crossover.
02:03:56
Speaker
So that, like for instance, in the uncanny issue of the crossover... Rogue and Gambit and Wolverine are teaching Kitty's kids.
02:04:12
Speaker
And they're actually getting their butts kicked by Rogue and Gambit because we've seen the level of of training that there that they're giving their kids, the outliers, to the point that Rogue felt guilty about you know having Gambit really go hard on Jitter.
02:04:34
Speaker
Yes. And so have these kids then you know say, that oh, oh, we've, okay, yeah, Kitty, we' we'll gladly do whatever you say.
02:04:48
Speaker
And then have, you know, say that they the newly formed mutants from adjective lists come over here and Kitty's actively showing them how to do stuff, which Scott doesn't want to do.
02:05:05
Speaker
Yes. But, but they're, you know, they're actually getting some sort of training and then you'll have the outliers go over to X-Men and Scott's like, yeah, no, I'm too busy to deal with you. And they have a vacation.
02:05:23
Speaker
They get to meet Beast and the dude in the chair named Magneto. Yep. They get a vacation, then of course it goes the way all Beach episodes go. okay But it's fun.
02:05:35
Speaker
They go on a vacation, and then Magic decides to take them on a real vacation. See, see, the way all Beach episodes go, something happens. Yes, hijinks ensue. Actually, I would love to see Magic with the Outliers.
02:05:51
Speaker
Oh, thank you. That would be awesome. And, you know, there there's the perfect title for that stupid little crossover idea of mine.
02:06:02
Speaker
Oh, you don't say? Exchange Students. Oh, no, that's cute. love I love it because it's like poetry. It rhymes.
02:06:14
Speaker
Harold? Again, it's like poetry. So if they rhyme... but My mouse was not over the button. Doesn't matter. You're the one with the soundboard. that yeah I love it. Exchange of students. I love it.
02:06:28
Speaker
i think it's great. um Then you have to bring them all together at the end and have them all in one room and, you know, fight some kind of big bad. oh of course yes of course you mean of course you make like new mutants issue two and they had to fight one brood and get their ass there we go yeah um okay so let's move into one that's next release i am challenged with this one and i don't i want your all's opinion i love the character of wolverine but i do not love the writer salad and ahmed so have you all been reading this wolverine
02:07:02
Speaker
no
Evaluation of Wolverine Comics
02:07:04
Speaker
that was not one of the ones i got so now i'm wishing i had yeah i i wish i had so that i could you throw some thoughts and ideas at you no that's all right i've got the mind it's me i've got ideas so i got thoughts so um uh saladine achmed i had not wrecked i'd never rid him before but i picked up his daredevil run and This should have been the forewarning for me because he took in Daredevil, it should have been a six issue, maybe seven issues because he's dealt with the seven deadly sins. I'm like, okay, this will be seven, eight issue arc and turn it to a 19 issue arc. I'm like, geez, come on, dude.
02:07:39
Speaker
There's excess. Let's, we should wrap this up first. So it felt like he just kept going and going and going and going. So when I heard he was going to write Wolverine, and i was like, Ooh, okay. Let's see what happens here.
02:07:52
Speaker
And I got to tell you, all the first eight issues could have been summed up in four. And I don't even know really why we had to go eight. And by the time it was over, I'm like, so that was the big bad in your thing. And it's frustrating because it's not necessarily bad, but it just sort of wastes time.
02:08:07
Speaker
He needs to have an editor that tells him no. but like like and Like we've been talking about in some of these books where you're like, I feel like there's missing pieces. this This series feels like it's but like it bloated for no reason, especially Daredevil did. But this one, we're not a Daredevil podcaster. We're an X-Men podcast.
02:08:24
Speaker
It's a lot of where are we going? What is happening here? And why does this matter? And we just kind of keep going and going and going and going and going. All that being said... the last three issues have been really good and like there is a last panel reveal on issue nine i think not the very last not the latest issue but the issue before that i said oh now that is clever i like this i like where this is going and i don't want spoil it for you all because you read it but like now a sudden i'm kind of hooked
02:08:58
Speaker
And my hope is, and it was a and this was a three issue story arc. I was like, see, I need you to start dialing back three or four issues. I'm good. Put in some subplots. And that's the other thing is he doesn't do subplots really.
02:09:11
Speaker
So it's all all this whole story, eight issues that could have been four. And we're like, okay, where is this going? And I also have a theory. do what y'all think about this one.
02:09:22
Speaker
I think when Wolverine is with the X-Men, like the team, he should be wearing yellow and blue. And when he's on his own, he should be wearing the brown and orange. armss I'm good with that.
02:09:32
Speaker
Yeah. I I've always liked the brown and orange costume better. I know heresy, but no, no, I'm with you. I'm with you. So, and, and it, and it should be a darker tone. That's the other problem with this book. Like the first eight issues, they're pretty bright colors. I'm like, this is, this is not, meing not, not meshing well with the tone of the story. And I'm, it's, it's iconoclastically confusing me.
02:09:54
Speaker
So I don't know. Anyway, it's not bad. It's not great. Some people say it's the best book of the line so far. I'm like, no, no, because it takes too long to get there.
02:10:07
Speaker
But ah other people have said that about me. So, all right. So I'm glad. I just hope you all check it. I mean, I think
Dazzler's Standalone Comic Potential
02:10:14
Speaker
it's worth checking out. See you think. The next week that they released the book called Dazzler.
02:10:24
Speaker
You remember? Dazzler. You remember Alison Blair, the Dazzler. Yep. Yep. So, bets Betsy, should I mention to Brev what my Rockerboy character in our cyberpunk campaign is named? absolutely.
02:10:41
Speaker
My character is named Dazz. I love it. I love it. I have an interesting relationship with Miss Alison Blair because I love her on the team, but I'm not real wild about her on a solo book.
02:10:56
Speaker
um Because her first book back in the 80s, when you could go for forever, only made it 42 issues. So there's got to be something, there's a reason for that. And a lot of that was bi-monthly, too. Yeah.
02:11:09
Speaker
So it's like, ooh, this is not working. um i just I struggle because i don't I like the character, but I don't know how you make her good.
02:11:22
Speaker
Well, I mean, she's a supporting character. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's a supporting character. And, you know, there's, I was having this conversation with somebody somewhere at some point, not too long ago, that there are some supporting characters that, yes, you can, know, make a few tweaks to, and they can then lead a series, be it a comic or a TV series or whatever.
02:11:49
Speaker
Yeah. And sir some characters are just supporting characters. Yeah. yeah at so Bull from Night Court. was pulling a random character.
02:12:01
Speaker
First one that popped into my head. Bull is great on Night Court. Bull is not a lead character. Yeah. I think that's a good way to describe it, honestly. Yeah. ah Yeah.
02:12:17
Speaker
The book was okay. I thought the first issue was kind of fun. Yes. The concept, I love. I love the concept. ah Yeah. And this was this is the kind of book that you do the whole you know social media thing with.
02:12:35
Speaker
yeah Thank you. done Because the character is a celebrity. The character has to do social media. The character has to do mass media because she's an entertainer.
02:12:51
Speaker
Literally a pop star.
02:12:54
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, they maybe a little on the nose that they were basically trying to make her, you know the mutant Taylor Swift.
02:13:07
Speaker
But, you know, it it works. It captures you know the characters like this that, you Dazzler was born out of the disco era.
02:13:20
Speaker
So, she is a character who is intrinsically tied to you the music scene of the moment that her story is being published. Yes. So yeah, I get it.
02:13:33
Speaker
I get it. I would almost make the argument, Daryl, that Taylor Swift is the human Dazzler. Ooh, there we go. Except that's not fair to Dazzler. Yeah.
02:13:43
Speaker
She deserves better. There go. We have thoughts on Taylor Swift. Yeah. She doesn't bother me, but I'm not like, ooh. So i just I think that this four-issue run, i liked the first issue. I felt like after that, started devolving.
02:14:03
Speaker
I don't know if it really knew where it needed to go or what it should have done. i thought some of the some of the song lyrics were a bit like, okay, come on, this is a bit much. There's a little self-indulgent at this point time. But again, it's a writer. It's supposed to be self-indulgent. I know, I know, I know.
02:14:17
Speaker
ah But like... glad here so yeah but But you're not wrong. Like, this is the moment when you should have had a character that was all over the social media aspect. And then you... then you um that you take that portion of X-Factor, you put that that theme of X-Factor, you put it in Dazzler, all a sudden Dazzler is now a lot more interesting.
02:14:35
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That would be a really interesting place to actually like play with all of that in a way that, you know, I think would be relevant, first of all. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah.
02:14:46
Speaker
And instead, you know, we have a few little mentions of it here and there and that's it. Yeah. bre I do want to hear what you were talking about with Mojo because I 100% agree with you on that, that I think he would have been a better fit here, but I want to hear what you have to say about it. So yeah and so I felt like Mojo ah being a villain for Dazzler would have been far more interesting than being a villain in NYX. First of all, he has a connection with Dazzler from previous history and also his ability, his desire to constantly entertain the world. and that's how he gets more power and fatter and all that sort of stuff. Like that's the whole point of Mojo, right?
02:15:23
Speaker
And so like he's wanting to manipulate Dazzler. What I would have done, what I would have done is putting Dazzler in all these situations and manipulating her and the crowd in order to gain more and more ah viewership and all this sort of stuff that just makes him more and more powerful, forcing Allie to say like, okay, hold on, I need to stop.
02:15:42
Speaker
doing all the things I'm doing because all I'm doing is feeding the machine and making him more powerful than he needs to be. And the reveal should have been him at the end, pulling the strings rather than Madrox, which I was like, this came out of nowhere.
02:15:56
Speaker
What is this? Like, what? And then how I would have ended it is like a big moment, a big fight with Mojo at at a concert or something like that. And then like she manages to get him to retreat, but then a portal opens up and long shot steps out, holds out his hand to Allie and is like,
02:16:13
Speaker
You know, allie I need your help now more than ever. Come with me. For old time's sake, i need you. She takes his hand. They good to jump in the portal together to Mojo World to go free the slaves and take out Mojo for one last time. And it ends with To Be Continued and Longshot and Dazzler coming soon.
02:16:29
Speaker
That is printing fucking money because that's that comic was supposed to come out 40 years ago. It never did. It would it would sell like crazy. There are so many fanboys that still love the Outback era. They want to see that happen.
02:16:43
Speaker
Even if the romance doesn't really occur, it should because this is a superhero adventure. Like it's OK that two people get together and have a romantic time, especially old lovers coming back. And I think these two idiots are well suited to each other because they're not smart, but they are pretty. So put them together and make pretty babies.
02:16:58
Speaker
um And it's fine. this This is something that you could do a four issue limited series and I think it would fly off the shelves. It's like Longshot Dazzler versus Mojo and like finally make that happen.
02:17:10
Speaker
And I thought it was such a wasted opportunity. Okay, man, now I want to live in the universe where that happened. Yes, right? ah and And I think this miniseries too, it suffered from some of the same problems that that we've mentioned in some of the other books and that so much of it just seemed kind of disjointed. Mm-hmm.
02:17:35
Speaker
you it was It was nice to see Madrox and Guido again, but like when Layla Miller showed up in the last issue, there was zero context for who she was, that she had any connection to Madrox,
02:17:53
Speaker
or even any indication that she was Layla Miller until Dazzler called her by name. Yeah. yeah yeah And by having read Peter David's second X Factor run gave me any context to know once Dazzler said her name, who she was, why she was there, what her connection to any of the other characters was, it was just, it was missing that context.
02:18:26
Speaker
Whereas throughout the rest of the mini series, you know, there's occasional nostalgia buttons being pressed for the old Dazzler series, but no nostalgia buttons being pressed to set up the climax.
02:18:37
Speaker
Yeah. I just kind of felt like they were doing the Nassau debate just so you could do the equivalent of you know being Brad Pitt pointing at the screen. Like, look at that! Look at that! Look at that!
02:18:49
Speaker
Yep. I guess all of that could have said it better myself. And like you had Lila Chaney in there, which is great, for a little bit. And it was like, ah oh yeah okay, so she's there. She's gone. I guess that's what Lila does. But, okay.
02:19:02
Speaker
Yeah, I just thought was a wasted potential for a book that could have been really, really good if they'd stopped. And this is where I think the ultimate issue I have is, is editorially speaking, there doesn't seem to be in your real cohesion what's going on.
02:19:16
Speaker
And it's just kind of all over the place and endings fumble. And I just, I just need, we i think we need a stronger voice to say like, here's where we're going and this is what we're doing.
02:19:27
Speaker
um I could be wrong. help And there could have been, yeah with your idea of Mojo being the villain for this instead of NYX, corporate synergy in play too, because exactly when Dazzler appeared in X-Men 97, it was in the Mojo episode. You're right, you're
Storm's Cosmic Narrative
02:19:52
Speaker
right, you got a point there.
02:19:53
Speaker
Yep. so corporate synergy you just gotta plan and think through these things right nothing's in a vacuum okay and speaking of vacuums we got aurora monroe in a her fifth volume of storm and so far this is the one that's lasted the longest which is sad it's true 12 issues long um okay uh thoughts who wants to go first I'll go first because my thoughts have slightly evolved from the notes that I took, but not completely. Okay. ah
02:20:28
Speaker
The first couple of issues seemed a little disjointed. Hey, there's that word again. Yep. Again, it's like poetry. It's not that they rhyme.
02:20:40
Speaker
But hi I read number two just a few days after I read number one, and I didn't remember much of anything from number one at all. And I can't imagine if I'd read them a full month apart.
02:20:55
Speaker
Yeah. ah The artwork is gorgeous. Yeah, it's beautiful. Oh my God. um No, that, yeah, 100%. That was going to be my first thing that I said. The art is so good.
02:21:10
Speaker
i I'm not sold on this whole storm as a cosmic being thing. um
02:21:20
Speaker
i we're We're seeing that story and I'm liking it better in Phoenix. Yeah. But at the same time, ah yeah where where I say that not so much my my thoughts changed from the notes that I took, but I just never took these notes down.
02:21:40
Speaker
Even though I'm sitting there going like, okay, um'm I'm not grooving on Storm as a cosmic level being. not grooving on that.
02:21:53
Speaker
But you come the end of each issue, I found myself saying, okay, so le me let me get to the next one. So the book is doing its job there.
02:22:04
Speaker
I'm liking some of the ideas that it's putting down. But the big idea that's driving the story, I'm just, is leaving me cold.
02:22:17
Speaker
It's kind of weird that way. And yeah I've just, I've never cared for Maggot as a character. so
02:22:26
Speaker
What about you, Betsy? Where are you this? Yeah, I mean, there are definitely some things I like about it. I mean, you know, again, first of all, the art, it's absolutely beautiful.
02:22:37
Speaker
I think there were some pages where I just kind of like stared at them for a good minute because they were just so pretty and I wanted to take in all the details. But as far as the plot, I think I do kind of agree with what Daryl said about how we've already kind of like got the whole cosmic thing going with Phoenix.
02:22:51
Speaker
But on the other hand, I mean, ah does kind of feel like a progression for Storm as a character too. So I can see where it's coming from. did really like, you know, the idea of starting out with, you know, okay, she's only got a certain number of hours to live. How are we going to play this?
02:23:07
Speaker
because i thought that was an interesting you know place to start from. and It kind of reminded me of, ah God, what was it? That one Superman. Was it All-Star Superman? Mm-hmm. yeahp yeah Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
02:23:20
Speaker
Where that also like just as an idea worked really well. Yeah. I thought the part where it just kind of got interrupted by X-Man Hunt was really annoying. I'm not going lie. Oh, God.
02:23:30
Speaker
That was one of those egregious ones. Yeah. Because if read the issue before. the issue before. And like, okay, we're going to, this is going to be the next issue. What happens? Oh, X-Man Hunt happens. Okay, cool. All right. well Yeah.
02:23:44
Speaker
So it's just, i don't know. But I think maybe that kind of like colored my enjoyment too, where it just kind of felt like some things got interrupted out of nowhere. And, you know. it's trying to remember what the plot threads were coming back.
02:23:56
Speaker
Because, oh, I guess we're you know going to sit over here and do this now for a minute. OK, that's fine.
02:24:03
Speaker
Yeah. um I think I wanted to like it more than I ended up liking it by the end.
02:24:11
Speaker
So on the aforementioned Cerebro podcast, he's had this, he's had the writer on a few times and it's actually kind of interesting listening to him talk about this book and like his passion for what he's trying to do with Storm. And you can tell like,
02:24:24
Speaker
he's got a vision for this and so that might color a little bit of what i'm about to say but like agreed the art gorgeous probably the best looking book in its entire line and that's including what i think i think that uh david marquez is killing on it on it on uncanny and i love the artist for for phoenix so i mean like this is definitely the best and those two i love so um i i'm I struggle here because reading Aurora's journey all through Krakoa, this seems to me like a natural next step. She went from being an X-Man to ruling a planet to now I'm going to be a a cosmic being.
02:25:04
Speaker
um So I'm like, okay, that kind of makes sense. And I can see that we're like, hey, if Storm can already do these things, it's just this evolution of her. However, my problem with evolutions means they can never, it's hard to go back.
02:25:17
Speaker
And I missed Storm on the X-Men. I read Avengers for a little bit and i was like, you know what? this mean It's fine. It's a good book, but it's just not... I'm not going to buy it. I'm going to read it on Marvel Unlimited.
02:25:29
Speaker
um That way... And I already get my Storm fix, that's okay. But it's like it's like she can't... It's just like Jean with Phoenix. Once you give them that, you can't take it back unless you do something like with Nito when you're like, okay, well now we're going to basically cripple him because of all these reasons.
02:25:44
Speaker
But it's like... It's the classic shonen anime power scaling problem. Yes. Thank you. That's it. and it's like, I can't, what do you do now? Now that she can yeah talk to keep up the stakes, but there's a place where it's like, where do you even go up from here?
02:25:58
Speaker
Yeah, this whole Thunder War thing, it's going to be her versus all these other Thunder gods. And so like I was like, okay, I mean, I've often said, i i think Storm ends up with Wolverine at the end, which I thought was a beautiful moment when you saw their child in the future. I thought that that was just so great.
02:26:14
Speaker
So like actually almost brought me to tears is like, okay. I even told my wife about it doesn't read comic books. I'm like, you have to just think about it. Like these two characters have such a love deep love for each other. Even if they're not in love, they have an immense friendship and a deep respect for one another. And they do love each other, even if it's not like a passionate thing.
02:26:33
Speaker
you could totally see them having a baby together. um And I love that. But I think the only real powerful man in the Marvel Universe that could even be worthy of her would be Thor. But whatever. i just I love Storm so much. She's my favorite X-Man. And now I wonder, will she ever be able to be an X-Man again?
02:26:50
Speaker
And that is the hard part that I as i every page I read of this, I'm like, how can you go back? And will I ever get her back? She just becomes untouchable. Yeah. And then it's hard to connect anymore.
02:27:02
Speaker
Unless they take her powers away, but I'm like, well, then that's rehashing old shit, right? It's like, yeah, so which that's what they usually have to do that because it plays into the power scaling problem because it's where do you go? Like, I guess we have to do some kind of reset and there are ways to do that, but I just don't know how.
Comics Business Model Challenges
02:27:18
Speaker
yeah and and and i feel like and that this if this had been like an elseworld book oh my god this book would be held as one of the best i think ever because people like look at this journey storm goes on because but this is not the storm that's going to be affected in the main lane that made the main line but instead a separate like dark knight returns will the rise of the goddess or whatever it could be we're like oh my god this is great but instead you're trying to balance this in in a universe where she has to eventually go back and tell Cyclops, yeah, we can co-lead the X-Men. And you're like, really?
02:27:49
Speaker
You want to co-lead now with him? Because you can kill him with a thought. like Like, what's going on here? Well, I think some of that, too, i will only briefly get on my soapbox about the broken nature of the business model of mainstream comics over the last, you know, 30-ish years.
02:28:14
Speaker
once the bottom fell out of the speculator boom and bust and DC and Marvel in particular were scrambling and trying to hold on to the long-term older readers who used to be outliers to the business model, you can get it in the old business model before it was broken when they weren't primarily catering to you and me who've been reading since the eighties.
02:28:43
Speaker
And, and you have a cycle of younger readers who are reading for a few years, then cycling out replaced by another group, just like them and lather, rinse, repeat.
02:28:57
Speaker
that you can get away with having this grand cosmic power and then taking it away and it not affecting the reader's perception as much because in a couple of years time, you're in entire the bulk of your audience, except for the outliers who know that they're outliers, don't know about that.
02:29:21
Speaker
And she's back at, at baseline. Yeah. We're, we're the cartoon. headr Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but now that that the bulk of Marvel's and DC's business in the publishing side of things are people who've been reading since the 80s, and they count on that because we're guaranteed sales to them, it's harder to pull that off realistically, unbelievably.
02:29:53
Speaker
Soapbox over. That's a good one. I think that's a really good way to just kind of describe it. The whole, you know, they have to find a way to do it that makes sense and feels like narratively satisfying. And that's not easy to do.
02:30:07
Speaker
yeah and i just and don't envy any of these people. Like this is tough. This is tough job. because you got you get you Yeah. and And you're in big two comics. So you can only go so far with how much you can change. Because these are these are characters they want to make a movie about. And they want the kids to be ah that love the movie to go buy the comic book.
02:30:26
Speaker
At the end of the tutorial, they can come for everything that you built at any time. Yeah, that's the other problem. and You never know. yeah They're characters who were designed to be evergreen, but the primary audience now wants them to change and grow along with them to reflect their, you know, mortgage and three kids and all of that. so Yeah, that's it. Yeah, and and that's... that's I just had a thought and I lost it. right we said that Oh, well. I don't think of it here. and it's like
02:30:57
Speaker
I don't know. I lost it. It's like finding the cure for the 20th. Now I'm just fucking up my movie codes. yeah so
Sentinels and Mystique Series
02:31:06
Speaker
ah Next up is ah is a tube is kind of a two miniseries that I really liked. and It's Sentinels and Mystique. Did you guys read these?
02:31:15
Speaker
No, they were not on my list either. They weren't showing as being part of... of uh from the ashes yeah which i've said because now that i like kind of like looked at what settles would have been i was interested to see how that one worked I really liked it.
02:31:30
Speaker
I thought it was cool. um Very different than the rest of them. It's a team of just humans that have been ah basically cybernetically enhanced with Sentinel withynel technology.
02:31:40
Speaker
And like you talk about PTSD all over the place. all like all The whole group is fucked up. They're all emotionally unstable, which is great because they have Sentinel powers. um and so And they're hunting down a few of the mutants that are out, like Omega Red and a few other ones.
02:31:56
Speaker
But then Mystique actually crosses over in this, which I was not expecting, and it was really cleverly done. um This is the type of book that Marvel should do more of, taking minor characters and doing something very different and very weird and pushing the bounds and being okay if one of them dies or something like that, it gets killed off. like this is, it reminded me of strike force Morituri, um, where it's like, yeah, it has that kind of feel. So if you liked that, this is a, this is perfect.
02:32:26
Speaker
You'll love it. And it's a quick reading heading to my list now. Yeah. It's a pretty quick read. The art is a little bit, um, to think of the right word. It's, It's very detailed and very heavily inked. But it's really good. By the end of you, you'll be like, okay, that was pretty fucking cool.
02:32:44
Speaker
that was it That was a diamond in the rough of this. so Worth reading. Mystique,
Psylocke Series Appreciation
02:32:50
Speaker
did you all read that one? No. okay so um It took me a little while to get into Declan Shelby's art. He writes and draws it. It took me a little bit. The first issue, like, it's the first is she was like its okay But then as it kept going, it kept going. I was like, okay, this is getting interesting.
02:33:07
Speaker
We need more books where Mystique it goes on just a spy thriller mission. and We just see how clever and creative and cunning she can be. We need more of that. And this was really, really good.
02:33:18
Speaker
Very fun. feel that's what her character's made for, too. Yes. And they don't do enough of that. And we need more of this. And one of the fun parts about since Raven's powers are so...
02:33:30
Speaker
they're not, I mean, they're flashy, but they're not like overpowered. They're not like, she's not blowing up buildings with her abilities. She's not flying all over the place. So it allowed the story to be, um lower stakes, if you will, a foot more grounded, but it also had a lot of intrigue. So, and a lot of like, okay, what's going to happen next? What game, what's the long game she's really playing with this?
02:33:50
Speaker
Cause it's mystique. She always has plans within plans, if you will. So, it It was really good. Again, I'm not sure it was the best series in here, but it was definitely an entertaining one. And by the
Wolverine Series Critique
02:34:00
Speaker
end, I was like, okay, that was that was worth the five issues. I liked that.
02:34:04
Speaker
And there's a very clever way they it it crosses over with Sentinels. So, all right. um It reminded me of that moment when you're watching Captain America Winter Soldier...
02:34:16
Speaker
and you're also and you have a whole bunch of agents of shield on your dvr and suddenly watch winter soldier go wait a second here did that just happen and you go back and watch agents of shield you go holy shit it just happened in here too that's awesome yeah talk about synergy um okay okay so moving on to the next one that came out with psylocke Starring Kanon and not Betsy this time.
02:34:40
Speaker
So, because Betsy is Captain Britain. Yes. Yeah, it definitely makes it easier to read when it's not my name. Yes. Yes. It's fucking weird, man. What did you all think this one?
02:34:53
Speaker
I went in not expecting much because... i I didn't go into any really of the solo titles expecting terribly much because historically I haven't had a really good time with solo X-Men books.
02:35:10
Speaker
Because most of them are bad. and But then you know i opened the page and I saw that Alyssa Wong was writing it.
02:35:21
Speaker
And I've really enjoyed their work on Dr. Aphra and the High Republic books. Mm-hmm. And so I'm like, okay, let me readjust my expectations a little bit.
02:35:35
Speaker
And I'm kind kind of glad I did because I liked it more than I expected it to going in. I mean, it's still, it's not groundbreaking. It's not like super great or anything, but for the first time since they split them back into two again, I actually kind of cared about Psylocke.
02:35:54
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And
Cable and Deadpool Series Review
02:35:56
Speaker
you know there were a few things that you didn't really make much sense. you know Like if Psylocke's rebirths over the years healed the scars on her feet, why is her tattoo still there?
02:36:09
Speaker
Don't worry about it. yeah Exactly. yeah A tat's basically just ink-filled scarring, but you know don't worry about it. you know It's still there. Don't worry about it. Maybe it's a mute tattoo.
02:36:20
Speaker
And I didn't worry about it. It's one of those, I read the line in the book and i was like, Oh, well. And and went on went on about my day, but I liked it more than I expected to.
02:36:35
Speaker
And I'm going to give all of that credit to Alyssa Wong.
02:36:40
Speaker
Yeah, I would definitely agree with that because, you know, like you said, mentioning like their work on Afra and stuff. When I saw who was behind this title, I was like, okay, so I think this could actually be fun. This could be good.
02:36:53
Speaker
And i gotta say, I liked it. It wasn't necessarily my favorite, but I think it was like, you know, a pretty decent, like seven or eight out of 10.
02:37:04
Speaker
Yeah.
Magic Series Exploration
02:37:05
Speaker
Agreed. I think this is a way describe it this is a case of, I mean, it was kind of a sleeper, ah kind of a sleeper hit for me. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Because her her, her, her arc and Hellions, Daryl, if you haven't read Hellions, that's definitely a great book.
02:37:22
Speaker
um and she's one she's one of the leads in that but still it's a team book so you don't get a whole lot of her um don't get as much as you would in this one and i think that there there was a need for this book to establish more stronger who this character is because the x-men so adjectives x-men was not did not have the space it needed to to have a story like this and we need to understand who canon is and if we don't have that space. We need to find an area to do that. So let's give it to a good writer. And I really liked the art in this too. um let's let
02:37:54
Speaker
Let's give a chance to like understand who this person is as we continue the X-Men book. So I think 10 issues was good. um i feel like we know more about her than we a lot more than we did when we started.
02:38:07
Speaker
um This is one I want to reread actually. And I'm excited to go through the reread because the first issue i was like, and okay. And the second issue is like, okay, I'm on board. I'm on board with this. um So is a good one.
02:38:18
Speaker
I would love to see it. Something else like her
Impact of Crossover Events
02:38:21
Speaker
and Grey Crow. And I forgot the little kid, the kid's name, this Damien something like that. don't remember. Anyway, I'd like to see more of them. Like when this was over, I was like, I enjoyed it.
02:38:29
Speaker
i wouldn't I would pick up the next series like after this. I enjoyed it that much. um yeah and between high republic and this ah pretty much now i think whenever i see whenever i see crash's name on the book i'm gonna be reading it all right so the next one is laura kenny wolverine have y'all did not read that one yeah did not read that one but i wish i had because i do enjoy laura
02:39:00
Speaker
I'm getting to know Laura.
X-Men Series Cancellations
02:39:02
Speaker
So this is not, I so i did not read ah Academy X, I think is what it was. It was too. Yeah. So um this one, my struggle here is I like Laura. I really do.
02:39:16
Speaker
I, my struggle with this book. I, I don't hate this book. I, it, it lacks focus. It's very much like it's sort of plug Laura into another adventure rather than give a theme or a story that she's on. And we're 10 issues in and I'm like, so she's risk. So in the 10 issues so far, she's rescued mutant kids. She has partnered up with Bucky Barnes and now she's fighting vampires.
02:39:43
Speaker
Okay. and Or always shame wish she was psychologically manipulated for like three of those issues for someone. It's like, okay, there's a lot happening here and I don't feel like any of it is cohesive. um And I'm kind of, what is the story we're trying to tell with Laura here? And I feel like it's all over the place. So I, for me personally, after coming out of Age of Revelations, I would like someone to sit down with the writer and the editor be like, I need a, I need a focus.
02:40:06
Speaker
Give us
John Byrne's Works Reception
02:40:07
Speaker
a focus point. Give us a story she's going to go on and then pepper stuff in because I feel like we're just sort of plugging and playing where we can with her. And I don't like that. I want to i want to like i want to ah want to see a journey, both a story. When we get to magic, we'll talk about it. But like a story that she's going on that's like an extended story where she grows and changes over time.
02:40:29
Speaker
And if I said it's like, she goes here, she goes here, she goes here. She meets Elektra or... electric daredevil i don't want to call it but like like but why why is she hanging out with bucky like what's the big deal or the revolution i guess he's called now which was new to me so i don't hate it i'm keep buying it it's fine but i want to like she is the driving force not the story and i want some story in there that's better so but i do love her um i don't always like the fact when characters have you know uh when legacy characters keep the name
02:41:02
Speaker
Because i think it's confusing, but I don't know what else I'd call her. So... um Anyway. What about... he Speaking one, Helverine. Would you all read that one?
02:41:14
Speaker
Nope. yeah Not that one either. You know, this is an interesting one. I like Ben Percy. I really do. He wrote Wolverine during the Krakoa era, which I thought was great.
02:41:25
Speaker
um Okay. Yeah. And he's writing this one. This is about Daken, who has now been resurrected with a... um with basically a ghostwriter type demon in him. So now whenever he, he sometimes reverts to that, uh, with flaming claws and flaming head, it's certainly different.
02:41:44
Speaker
It's a very different, it's a horror book, uh, through and through. So, I mean, if you're, if you're into that, like that sort of thing, I think what we're, we're missing in this, in this story, uh, so far is, um,
02:41:58
Speaker
really diving into the more of the fantastical elements like i want to see more of like this could be the ah marvel vertigo and it's just not
Anticipation for Age of Revelation
02:42:08
Speaker
going for it yet and i feel like it could and and also i want darker tones to the to the art than what we're getting it's still too bright like wolverine is too bright for me this one's the same way even though this is dealing with some really crazy dark shit i want i want darker tone i want more shadows I want more blood. I want more like the twisted evil shit. And it's not quite getting there. It's like, it's like touching on, on the, it's like touching the salt line without going over the salt line. It's like, no, go over. Let's do this. Let's make it happen.
02:42:40
Speaker
Okay. But it's called hell of a great. I feel like that's where you just kind of got to go all out. That's the, that's, that's the main issue. That's the main problem I'm seeing is like, we're not going all out. Like, it's like, we're still dialing it back a little bit. I'm like, no, stop dialing it back. Like,
02:42:54
Speaker
fucking go i get bloody and gross like they get crazy like put in satan worshippers and all this more of them and like anyway it in the sad part I think it's ending with issue 10 we're like oh right when we're getting going come on Marvel anyway okay so that's that one um and then we got let's see January 1st 2005 we got Deadpool slash Wolverine plus Cable Love and Chrome did you all read either of those No.
02:43:26
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, I did not. All right. So let's see. Cable, Blood and Chrome. That was actually, that was pretty good. That was pretty good. um A lot of the the fanboys like this was like, it's Cable. It's awesome. But like, there's a really sweet story in here.
02:43:43
Speaker
He basically gets caught in a time loop trying to save this woman that he's fallen in love with. And every time he does it, he makes it worse. and stuff ah okay like a butterfly oh yes exactly and it's kind of fun because like cable you're used to this big tough soldier the eternal warrior right and he can never he really yes he can get knocked down but usually finds a way to succeed and instead he's like i can't figure out
Reflections on X-Men Series
02:44:10
Speaker
what's going on why can't i make this happen And the violence isn't the answer in this. And that's tough on old Nathan. He's he can't that's he's out of his depth. and Can't punch your way out of this one. Exactly. Can't shoot it. Can't punch it. Can't yell at it. It's like, crap, how do I handle this? And I liked that concept.
02:44:30
Speaker
And it's chock full of violence and action adventures. Some sex is in it. i mean, it's like, oh, I got all the good stuff, right? so But it is definitely a case of like, this is different. This is cool. um Anyway, I enjoyed it.
02:44:43
Speaker
Deadpool Wolverine. It's Ben Percy again. It's Deadpool. It's Wolverine. It pretty much sums it up. There's there's strife is in it. Apocalypse is in it. It's it. There's zombies in it. It is just but Mavericks in it.
02:44:56
Speaker
Aim is in it. It's bonkers. it's incredibly violent it's a lot of fun and it's about as much deadpool as i can handle because he gets on my nerves every once in a while i love the movies a lived pool goes a long way yes and this is this is the right amount of deadpool for me i'm like okay i can handle this much and i don't need any bit more um and it's but it is bonkers there's like ah if i remember right there's ah a fucking, um, in D and D what is the dragon that when you have, like, it's like a dead dragon, it comes a lich, a lit Draco lich.
02:45:32
Speaker
Did you guys hear? I think it's something like that. Yeah, I think so. Something like that. Well, like, they end up riding on one. We're kind of, like, dealing with that soon-ish. So, yeah. yeah It is just like our president. It's a Draco lich. So, like, ah yeah. so So, I'm sorry. You can cut that. No, don't cut it. Leave it in. It may be snort.
02:45:54
Speaker
Yeah, it's like it's like poetry. It rhymes. But no, like this is, there it's the book is bonkers, but it is actually, because it's been Percy, it's still really good and very violent. And just like, you're like reading it going, this is cool. This is fun. And this is just enough Deadpool to keep me around.
02:46:13
Speaker
All right. um And not too much to make me go like, I'm done. Like I tried reading Deadpools and Wolverines and our Wolverines and Deadpools. And i was like, I'm necessary. um ah Then there was Weapon X-Men.
02:46:27
Speaker
This is Cable. I don't think I even heard of that one. so yeah Cable, Wolverine, Chamber, Thunderbird, and Deadpool. yeah Again, the fanboys like this.
Long-form Podcasting and Community Engagement
02:46:41
Speaker
huh I said that's a lineup. Yeah, it is a lineup. um the the the ah The fanboys loved this one and got all pissed off when was canceled at issue 5. I could absolutely see why because was like, this is just kind of dumb.
02:46:55
Speaker
Like, there's not much here. You know, Joe Casey's doing a better job on other things. But like, i was like, the art was good crisscross. But anyway, okay. Not much to say there. It was fine. Five issues. Great. Let's let's wrap this shit up.
02:47:09
Speaker
And then really magic. It's, I think, going to end us up here, end us at the last one we have. Ileana gets her own quote-unquote ongoing for as long as that's going to last. um So, again, a character that has been around for so long. like I felt like this this is the kind of series we needed 15 years ago to really like flesh out her character more. But I know she yes she got a lot of since she got a lot spotlight when Bendis was writing Uncanny, so I respect that. That's fine.
02:47:38
Speaker
um But I mean, like this is a character that's been in long need of this, and I really dig this book. I'm liking it. I didn't think I was going to, but yeah go ahead. Oh, I was going to say, my once again, my my ultimate view of it changed since the note that I wrote, because I was only about halfway, when I put this note in, only about half of...
02:48:05
Speaker
The issues were read. Yeah. And you she's another one of my favorite X characters. ah So I went into it really hoping to like it.
02:48:17
Speaker
At first, I was just like, okay, it's fine. Not great. But the more it's gone on, the more I've been enjoying it. i i'm just digging the place in the world that they're putting her you know they're giving her her own unique little corner of the x-verse yeah and um you know i i like that that danny is back yes i i like i like the interplay between them ah you know the whole
02:48:55
Speaker
the the current vibe that they have of, okay, we used to be really good friends, but we, now we don't quite click like we used to, but we wish we did. Yeah. But we don't.
02:49:08
Speaker
I'm really enjoying that vibe because, because it's a realistic kind of vibe for people who mainly know each other from school. but
02:49:20
Speaker
I, and now as adults, they're being thrust back together, you know? i think Yeah, it's not like you can't go back to something that you know you can't ever reclaim what's already been passed.
02:49:30
Speaker
Yeah. Right. And i love i I love Danny Moonstar. I want her to be in so many more books. I think she's a great character. And I think that, to me... If Gail Simone is channeling um Chris Claremont and making it her own, I'm not saying she's imitating him. She's saying, okay, what did what made what made this work when when Chris wrote it?
02:49:51
Speaker
I think that Ashley is channeling Wheezy to make like, what worked? when when wheezy wrote these characters and i gotta i'm gonna make it my own but it feels like it feels like wheezy's given ashley allen the the the writer that the the mantle the the torch and said you got this and she's like doing it um so much so that when this book when i don't know if the book is canceled at 10 or not but when they come back of age or out of age of revelations what i want i want a new want to put titles as new x-men i want the font for the new mutants title and i want it to be danny iliana sam brett beto and rain all back together again taking up the mantle actually of x-men that they've been promised their whole lives and now that they're adults you all go be the x-men like not cancel the the rest of the books i want that i'm sorry
02:50:40
Speaker
I said, I like that. That'd be fun. That would be cool. Yeah. Yeah. I see it as sam how how they all get the back together. Sam's kid, his son is kidnapped. His son and wife are kidnapped. and And then he's like beaten nearly to death.
02:50:54
Speaker
And then Danny sees it, tells Illyana, and she teleports them over there. um Beto, of course, is still on Mars with the rest of the... um with the rest of the iraqi and like somehow rain gets there and then they hear from sam what happens and they go on some sort of interdimensional whatever journey to go rescue sam's wife and kid realizing that you know at the that they always that the the that they were at their best when they were together and i'd love to see that and like i see it as a five issue limited series give it a shot and at the very end the last issue is something like beto saying you know we're always promised this i think we're still got it we should do it we should just be x-men just tell them we are
02:51:38
Speaker
And then Ileana says, and Danny should lead us. he's like, I don't know. I don't know, Sam. We always co-led. And Sam's like, you know what? This is your team, girl. I'm here to support you. But don't worry. I'll let you know every time you step out of line.
02:51:48
Speaker
And they all do the hands in the middle thing. And they're like, all right, let's do this. And it's like new X-Men coming out soon. That's how I would do it if I was the head, if I was the writer or the editor. But, you know. So what we're saying is Marvel should just hire you. I think so. I think it's time. Marvel will be listening. So I got that.
02:52:06
Speaker
but Well, but we need to get you in the game room at Nick's house because Lucasfilm and Marvel and DC and a bunch of other places all have the game room bugged.
02:52:21
Speaker
Oh, nice. Because yeah we'll we'll do something just completely out of left field in one of our games and in the next piece of media or in in a next piece of media that's tied to that IP, it happens.
02:52:38
Speaker
Or it gets called. Awesome. Yes. um Well, and then there there's also not not really a book itself, but there's you know the great big...
02:52:53
Speaker
mega crossover that they did, X-Man Hunt. Yep, that sure did happen. It is a thing that occurred. Yep. It was really happening. That's what you can say about it. Well, did we want to talk about the assault on Gray Malkin first, or did we want to take X-Man Hunt? Which one?
02:53:09
Speaker
I mean, that was a crossover. Assault ah or raid on Gray Malkin was... It was a crossover, yeah, but it was just two books, four issues. yeah So,
02:53:22
Speaker
and I would say it was set better, at least because it was like, it actually had a reason to do it. But I also think we talked earlier, it was way too early. So, yeah.
02:53:33
Speaker
But X-Man Hunt, oh, talk about haphazard. And it ends by setting up another event.
02:53:47
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The whole point of it was to get the egg hatched. That's it. That's all they needed. So it's like, so you make it to something else you derailed eight other books just to get to this point, which you could have done it in one issue.
02:54:03
Speaker
Oh, geez. you You derailed all of the other books. And in those issues, Professor X shows up and says, I have a faux objective that loosely ties into the paradigm of this particular series. hadn't thought of it that way Being generous.
02:54:30
Speaker
That is hilarious.
02:54:33
Speaker
Oh my god. And it already had announced that several of them were being canceled. And so as I was reading that by this point time, and I'm reading this going like, these writers must be really pissed that I have to have to give space to this worthless story. And I'm trying to close out my own book.
02:54:51
Speaker
Yeah. You want to give your thing a satisfaction. I'm trying to wrap mouth early Now you have to do this. Yes. it It's like putting your two-week notice and your boss is like, you know, I'm going to need you to go ahead and stay late to get this stuff done. And you're like,
02:55:06
Speaker
Well, I won't pay you for two weeks if you don't. Well, I guess I'm going to stay and do it. Well, fine then. But I'm not going to be happy about it. That's right. I'm turning in overtime.
02:55:16
Speaker
so yeah. I'm not going to be happy about it. You're going to know I'm not happy about it. Yeah, this was a tough one because I loved seeing Lalandra come back. I was so happy. as I gasped. was oh, awesome. Like, I never thought that was going to happen. And I love how they did it. And it felt like, OK, this makes sense. I like I like this.
02:55:36
Speaker
But honestly, Charles x Xavier leaving, going to space is a known is a non event. It had he does it all the fucking time. yeah he always says he'll never come back and then he does yeah and like i'm cool if he goes away and never comes back you know there's but he'll be back there's certain leaders and i'm just gonna throw it out there you can interpret as you wish there's certain leaders i wish that they would you know go away and never come back and i'm okay with that yeah even ones in our own world i'm okay if you all just shut up and leave and never show your face again yeah
02:56:09
Speaker
and And Charles is one of those in the comic books. I'm like, yeah, it's fine. He made the X-Men, but he's also an asshole. He's a dick and he gaslights everybody. So I'm okay if he goes. It's like, I know they have to bring him back because, you know, he is the big part of X-Men and the whole like guy that kicked it off and everything. But it's also like, I feel like there comes a point where he's had his time in the sun and you know, let's move on to something else.
02:56:32
Speaker
There's a point in time when yeah yeah where the mentor has to go so the hero can rise, right? and like The book isn't called you know Charles x Xavier, Professor X, or anything like that. It's called X-Men.
02:56:45
Speaker
Emphasis on men, M-E-N, as in you know the plural. You could put anyone in there. You could constantly slot in and remove people.
02:56:54
Speaker
Well, when when Marvel was doing their dollar books in the nineties There was one that was Professor X and the X-Men. and That was just one even.
02:57:07
Speaker
Where were they really, really badly retold the early X-Men stories. It's amazing that you could retell them badly because they weren't great the first time. yeah i mean like ge Wow, that's impressive.
02:57:20
Speaker
so they so like because Because if you're reading those, i mean there's a there's a moment when you go, okay, Juggernaut, that was kind of cool. Okay, Sentinels, that was kind of cool. Why are they fighting Merlin?
02:57:32
Speaker
What's a kobold man? What the fuck is going on here? Why are we doing this? And oh, oh cool. Neil Adams, Jim Steranko. This is really cool. this Okay, Havoc's kind of neat. Lauren is kind of cool.
02:57:46
Speaker
Sentinels again. and we're done. Okay, well, that was 60 issues, wasn't it? 65, excuse me. So I just did the highlights of everything. Well, and then you get the The retcon plug-in of John Byrne's X-Men The Hidden Years.
02:58:04
Speaker
Oh, there we go, yeah. Have you guys read that? I've never read it. i I read it back when it first came out. I don't remember much of it, but it was it was basically Byrne doing his personal professional fanfic of what of what he wanted to see happen between the book's cancellation and Giant Size.
02:58:32
Speaker
And I think that's fascinating. And I kind of want to read it, but then I'm like, but I think I'd get bored and stop. ah Yeah, that's honestly what I did. Like, I picked up a couple issues randomly, and then I was like, I'm not really enjoying this.
02:58:46
Speaker
I'm just gonna tap out now. It wasn't bad, but it was this... Did you ever read Burns' Marvel The Lost Generation?
02:58:59
Speaker
No. Mm-mm. So, you know, because... both DC and Marvel have the sliding scale of time. yeah You have certain characters that are inextricably tied specifically to World War II, but the current heroes are tied to now, whenever now is.
02:59:24
Speaker
So Byrne did a miniseries called Marvel The Lost Generations, In the 90s as that gap in the sliding scale was getting longer to plug in some stories in that missing time.
02:59:39
Speaker
And there's a reason that was a lost generation. yeah Yeah. Well, not a very memorable series. I forgot about it until just now. As I was about to say, like, it's kind of the it's kind of the same but thing as X-Men The Hidden Years in that it's not bad because you have a comics legend coming back to work on characters that he's known for generations later.
03:00:14
Speaker
But it was... It read a lot like a middle finger to Claremont, not overwriting anything that he did because it was in that gap in between, but more like, I'm getting to do X-Men because this is after Claremont was off of the books.
03:00:32
Speaker
Yeah. like, I'm back doing X-Men, so fuck you. Yeah, you mentioned it being a fanfic. It's like that fanfic where you're just angry and salty about everything that happened, and now you're like, I'm going to fix it with a hammer.
03:00:45
Speaker
Yes. Yes. going to show them. so are you all going to X-Men, ah John Byrne's X-Men Elsewin that comes out? The thing he's been working on for years?
03:00:58
Speaker
I don't know honestly I am going to buy it i i'm brought that I'm intrigued yes I'm going to get it whenever comes April of 2026 so we got a lot but like I think it'd be interesting be fascinating you know I'm intrigued but recent stuff that I've seen of his is just like okay yeah I'm more worried about what message he's going to put in there rather than the audit. You know what I mean? like what are my yeah I'm talking about but the whole package. Okay,
03:01:38
Speaker
i you know have For a while, he was doing some Star Trek books for IDW. and At one point, he was literally doing Star Trek books for IDW by taking screen caps from episodes of Star Trek, the original series, and then putting word balloons on them.
03:02:05
Speaker
Wow, he couldn't even bother to trace them? Wow. No. And and that that was the whole gimmick, that he's he's repurposing images from the original series to tell brand new stories.
03:02:20
Speaker
Well, that's a choice. That's not good. Yeah. That sounds like they're just trying to lampshade being lazy. Yep. Yeah, I mean, like, there's a certain degree of work you gotta do to go find those images.
03:02:33
Speaker
However... yeah however so and but So, yeah, so X-Man Hunt, a lot, ah much of the need to get us to the one single page that actually mattered. But, but but I will say, Imperium so far has been really good.
03:02:51
Speaker
ah If you all like Hickman and you're interested, go check it out. First three issues are out, and I'm just like... this is pretty fucking cool like i'm loving this the art's great the writing's great and then they're going to do some spinoff thingies here or like there's uh a couple other like tie-in books that i'm like okay yeah i'm i'll get them i'll get like one issue a piece like sure i'm i'm intrigued enough i want to see where it goes but Not an X-Men title, but Professor X and Lalandra will be in it because their daughter is the ruler of the Shi'ar Empire at this point in time. so
03:03:24
Speaker
Which is heavily, you know, obviously a big deal in the X-Men. so Yeah. yeah So yeah. Well, thank you all for, i don't know if you have anything else to say about these. I appreciate you all going down this journey. So overall, overall thoughts on From the Ashes overall.
03:03:40
Speaker
Betsy, what do think? I think there were a lot of things I liked. There were a lot of things I didn't. I mean, there are, you know, definitely some books that I can absolutely see why they got canceled and just things that i see where the ideas were. The execution just wasn't there.
03:03:58
Speaker
There are definitely things that I want to stick with. um You know, like we all talked about Uncanny. And I think there are places where this can go that will be good. I think it was, honestly, like, a lot of them were kind of a good, honestly interesting follow-up to everything with Krakoa.
03:04:15
Speaker
Some of them, I feel like, kind of dropped the ball. I think overall was just a very mixed bag.
03:04:22
Speaker
Daryl, what do you think? i theyre Like Betsy was just saying, there's things that I liked. what What I liked, I really liked...
03:04:36
Speaker
What I didn't like, I really didn't like. but But a lot of it was just, the the vast majority of it was just there.
03:04:49
Speaker
Yeah. The majority of it was just there to put out X-Books and put out a lot of X-Books and hopefully to get everyone to buy all of those X-Books.
03:05:03
Speaker
Yeah. Of which I did. It worked for you, Rev. It worked for me. Yeah, I got sucked in. so And i think you know i think I think you both hit it. like There's some moments in here I'm like, man, that's really cool. That's a good book. I really liked that one. And there were some where like, don't like this book. Why am I still buying this fucking book?
03:05:22
Speaker
And there's other ones like, yeah, it's okay. Okay, it's fine. It's fine. yeah right, well, on to the next one. i found The problem was I found myself really enjoying other titles that were coming out.
03:05:37
Speaker
from image whether they were sky bounds books of transformers and GI Joe i was really I'm really enjoying void rivals I'm really enjoying that one and on reading those but yeah they're so so so far behind there's it's so it's your it's so worth it once you start you'll finish it all quickly um I'm loving those I'm actually really enjoying the amazing spider-man ultimate spider-man is really good I'm loving absolute Batman I'm excited about the Batman relaunch with Matt Fraction and, and, uh, Oh, forget the artist, but like, that looks really good. Oh, I am. yeah when i
03:06:14
Speaker
When I went and was picking up some, some of my backlog, I'm looking through everything. I was like, why is detective comics? Oh yeah. Tom Taylor was taking over, took over detective comics.
03:06:26
Speaker
You're coming home with me. and I've heard it's been great. need to sit down. I still need to sit down and read it all, but I was like, you're um the first day that I went to get backlog out, I'm like, you're coming home with me. Nice.
03:06:40
Speaker
So what do we think is going to happen? Are we sticking or are we going to buy Age of Revelation? we going to buy some of it? Are we going buy all of it? Or are we just going to wait to read it on digital? Where are we? I read a lot of stuff, most of my stuff on digital now anyway.
03:06:57
Speaker
Even the stuff that I buy physically, a lot of times I end up reading it first on digital and I'm buying it on i'm buying it physically to support it, to keep it being published.
03:07:11
Speaker
So a little from column a a little from column b ah i I'm definitely going to be sticking with Uncanny. um although I have not brought them home yet, in that box of backlog as I was putting, you know, taking X-Books out and going, yeah, you can put that back on the shelf and put that back.
03:07:33
Speaker
I kept Psylocke in the box and I kept Magic in the box. um So, you know, I'll be sticking with those. And
03:07:45
Speaker
i i think I've turned a corner on adjective-less X-Men already, Those last few issues actually have kind of grabbed me, so I'm probably going to be sticking with it.
03:07:56
Speaker
I'll definitely just be reading Exceptional digitally because I'm a kittyry i'm a sucker for Kitty Pryde. um I'm not expecting it to really go anywhere, but you know i I'll keep reading my Kitty Pryde.
03:08:14
Speaker
And hopefully hopefully they will do Exchange Students. Yeah. I hope they do That would be great. Yeah, seriously. Hope someone's listening and they're just like, write that down. Write that down. Steal it. Steal it. what about What about you, Betsy? Are you going to read? Are you going to buy Age of Revelation? are you not Are you going to wait for it to end and pick up the books after that? or Yeah, I think I might just wait until after. mean, some of it is also just, you know, I don't have a lot of money in my wallet at any given time.
03:08:41
Speaker
There you go Yeah. And the idea of 16 books is 80 bucks a month towards comic books. And it's like, I've not been overly impressed so far. What makes me think a story that's going to take place X number of years in the future that may or may not have any value or resonance back on the normal line is going to make.
03:08:59
Speaker
How, why would I read that? Yeah, because I'm definitely going to you know keep reading Uncanny, to keep reading Magic for sure, because that one's fun. And honestly, I do want to keep reading Exceptional because I just want to see where it goes.
03:09:11
Speaker
Sure. But I think other than that, like a lot of things I might let drop, and as far as Age of Revelation goes, I think I would probably just end up reading it after the fact rather than investing in it.
03:09:22
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And that's the magic power of coinci of ah capitalism, right? You vote with your dollar. So people don't buy it, then they'll be like, okay, this didn't work. And and I don't want an event.
03:09:32
Speaker
I want a story. Yeah. So it's like I have to pick and choose very carefully. Yes. I will definitely be, you know, some of these are limited series. I've enjoyed Deadpool and Wolverine. It's been fun. um I'll keep on with Laura Kinney Wolverine. Helverine's ending. Yeah.
03:09:50
Speaker
Definitely keeping magic. um Love Phoenix. I think Psylocke ended, unfortunately. Storm will kind of on the fence, and I'll keep it uncanny. I'm dumping Wolverine. I'm done. And then an adjective with X-Men I'm keeping. So still quite a few. I to where adjective list goes now. Yeah.
03:10:08
Speaker
Yeah. And that's the problem. They finally found momentum. They finally found a path forward. They finally found stuff. Like, we're bringing this together, and now we're going to do a big story arc. Yep. So we're stopping yeahp Cool.
03:10:20
Speaker
Great. everything i'm saying Fleet dead halt. Yes. that That takes us back to when we talked on the Peter David episode. Yep. he He commented about how working on X Factor, he enjoyed working on X Factor, but he hated it because every so every six months he had to put everything on hold for the crossovers.
03:10:46
Speaker
And Executioner's Song The issues of X-Factor in Executioner's Song had no X-Factor characters in them. suspicious
03:10:59
Speaker
That's so funny.
03:11:03
Speaker
But thank you for bringing this topic to us, Brett. This officially clocks in as the longest casual nerdity so far. Oh, we did it.
03:11:14
Speaker
We did it. we we We broke records and stuff, I guess. Well, you know what our previous record was, Betsy? I have a feeling I know what it is.
03:11:26
Speaker
Mortis. Mortis from Clone Wars. You mean the one where I couldn't shut up for five seconds? i didn't so I didn't say that. I did. I know what I'm about. Yes, you did.
03:11:37
Speaker
I know what I did. Yes, you did. I take full responsibility for my actions. But thank you again for for bringing this to us, Brev. It gave me the kick in the pants to read the X-Books other than Uncanny, because that was the only one i was reading.
03:11:55
Speaker
And as we just discovered, I found a few that I'm going to be sticking with. And few that I actually still need to check out now, too. yeah Yeah, and some that I need to check out.
03:12:06
Speaker
And most of them now be on Marvel Unlimited. So if you've got a subscription there or however you get it, like you don't have to pay extra for it. You don't have to be like me and now have something physical thing I got to deal with. Just grab it off of the digital. So I'm glad. I had a lot of fun. i hope we didn't run it down too much because I do hope the listeners take away like There are some gems in here.
03:12:27
Speaker
There really are. And there's some good stuff. And there's lots of nuggets. Unfortunately, there's a lot of stuff you've got wade through to get to it. And fortunately now, with things like X-Men, You have enough that you can get to quickly where you can read like the first, what, 15 issues in one shot and go like, listen, just just keep going. It's going to make sense. Just got to give it a moment. just give It's got to take a few. And you go, okay, this was worth it.
03:12:51
Speaker
So I'm like, as much as it sucks for books to get canceled, it's, you know, you could take those off the list and not worry about them and just focus on the good ones. Yeah, nothing in those happened that you need to know about. We told you the best part about... We already told you the scene that it's important in X-Man Hunt. Lalandra's back.
03:13:06
Speaker
That's all you needed to get. That literally is all you need to know. And yeah, we we were... if We did run some of them down a little bit, but it comes from a place of affection for the characters.
03:13:20
Speaker
yeah we're We're not being you comic book guy from The Simpsons and worst comic ever. No, no. It's far worse. Even with X-Factor, I found things like could or x factorctor I take out that I liked, even if you know the overall thing just was not for me.
03:13:38
Speaker
we're We're coming out of at it from a place of we wanted to like these books wherever we could. We found something to like in them, but some of them just happened to fall short, and here's why. Yeah.
03:13:52
Speaker
And I think something at that that level of honest criticism I think is important for to be out there um and not just completely ripping something apart, but like an honest criticism of something because that that's what what creatives need to hear so they go, okay,
03:14:08
Speaker
So what fans want is when I went left instead of right, they wanted me to go right. Now I don't want to give them exactly what they want because then they'll be bored and call it, you know hack job. but at the same time I need to give them right. I need to give them what going right means. Just not the way they think they're going to it. Yeah. Yeah.
03:14:24
Speaker
Well, I think that's where it comes in. There's also a difference between like criticism and critique yeah where, you know, we're not just ragging out saying, it was the worst thing ever. And it was complete garbage. It's, these are the things that didn't work and this is why we thought they didn't work versus like, these are the things that did work for us. And this is why we thought they did work.
03:14:43
Speaker
Exactly. I love it. Yep. And there's even like we, each one of us encountered one that started off at least one that started off or like, I don't know.
03:14:55
Speaker
And turned around for us. Yes. hundred percent. Yeah. So yeah. So they thank you once again, bre Brev. And or thank thank both of you for for sticking around for a little over three hours. Totally worth it.
03:15:12
Speaker
I was just excited because i you Betsy, we've been around each other several times. The cons, I had no idea you were a comic book nerd like me. I was like, when Daryl said, Betsy's going to join us. was like, Betsy's next one here? Oh, yeah. like Oh, awesome.
03:15:24
Speaker
Great. This is awesome. Yes, because last time we did this, Daryl and I put someone to sleep. I don't mean to call him. I don't put him on blast, but somebody fell asleep. so Yeah, I heard. I mean, if it helps, it's not the first time he's apparently done that. I love it.
03:15:40
Speaker
Well, we should do this again on some other series that we want to do. We don't have to pick it now, but let's find another one in a few months. Let's get together and let's pick another one. Absolutely. And eventually, Daryl and I talked about doing a Titans reread anyway, so that's somewhere on the list. Yeah, we're going to do Titans reread. I would be down for that if we wanted to volume by volume, because I've got 15 or 16 volumes over here, so that gives me the kick in the pants to get those read, so...
03:16:05
Speaker
that That sounds like a way... Because we had been trying to figure out how to do it. we were We had initially been thinking like issue by issue, but that's not enough for a whole episode. Yeah.
03:16:17
Speaker
So if we have volume by volume, it's like it's like but six or seven issues, maybe up to ten per volume. like We could do that a couple hours. Yeah, absolutely. So let it be written, so let it be done. We're just not going to send a date on it because then we have to actually commit.
03:16:35
Speaker
Right, right. but but I like that idea, Let's get nuts! Come on, let's get nuts. There you go. All right. Well, thank thank you both. Brev, ah you you are no stranger to long form podcasting. So where can people find you? Yeah, you can find us at the Movie Defenders.
03:16:57
Speaker
And you get that we are located at moviedefenders.libson.com. L-I-B-S-Y-N. We go long form. but We usually three to four hours talking about movies. And much like this show, we don't run them down.
03:17:10
Speaker
do some criticism and critiques here and there but i mean like mostly it is about loving movies that a lot of times other people dump on we have a good time uh it's me myself and i now so it's uh donald and scott and i we have a good time we have a guest on every once in a while daryl's been on there several times so as stephanie and uh nick was on there recently to talk about transformers one we have a blast if you're interested in following us uh You can find us on ah on ah X and Instagram at Movie Defenders. And then if you want to find us on Facebook, you can also find us there. And we have a movie discussion group at facebook.com Movie Defenders.
03:17:48
Speaker
And you can also just go to our website and find, I mentioned before, at moviedefenders.libson.com and find all of the 205 episodes of we're talking about movies that we have there. So thank you, Daryl.
03:18:01
Speaker
Awesome stuff. All right. Well, thank you everyone for listening to us ramble about a year's worth of eight bazillion X-Men comics. And we hope to that you will join casual nerdity again next time. Next time we should be back to our clone watch series. ah Next up should be the Mon Calamari arc.
03:18:24
Speaker
I do believe if I remember where we're at in our viewing order, ah Betsy, that's, I was going to say, that's not one of your your unreasonable demands. that Yes, they were demands, Rob. I listed them as demands. That's right. you yes ze do If they want your talent, they got to pay up.
03:18:42
Speaker
Mm-hmm. By letting me not shut up and talk about all the things I want to talk about. That's... Yes. At their own peril. That's how I ended up pushing my way into the movie Defenders, so... if you I keep telling her she's welcome to be a permanent co-host if she wants to be, and she's like, no, there's only certain episodes I want to talk about.
03:18:59
Speaker
i love it. only have so much time, man. I hear you. I want i gotta to go listen to this Mortis episode, because I have thoughts, but I want to hear Betsy's first, but make sure that I don't step in it, so... You will hear a lot of them.
03:19:12
Speaker
I love it. yeah yeah that That'll be tomorrow's listening. Yep. I regret nothing. I know. I wouldn't i wouldn't put, and yes, that makes that that checks out. Well, thank everyone for listening. We hope to see you back next time. And this has been Casual Nerdity.
03:19:30
Speaker
Bye-bye.
03:19:33
Speaker
This has been Casual Nerdity. We hope you've enjoyed your time with us and look forward to having you back.