Clone Watch - Episode 20

Transcript

Speaker: Casual Nerdity is a podcast celebrating and discussing pop culture that we love. Movies, TVs, comics, books, games, you name it. Ari missed to talk about the good, what worked, and yeah, sometimes what didn't.

Speaker: All with an eye towards building up, not tearing down. Thanks for joining us.

Speaker: Welcome back to Casual Nerdity and the 20th episode of our Clone Watch series. Woohoo! I'm Daryl.

Speaker: I'm Nick. And I'm Lauren. And we are here to talk us some Clone Wars. um Let's explain what we're doing here. Clone Them Watch.

Speaker: Yes. So what we're doing here is, lauren jordaner for those of you listening for the first time, Lauren joined our gaming group and got sucked into some Star Wars games as well. Indeed. But wasn't familiar with Star Wars, so a lot of our references were flying over your head.

Speaker: It was the meme of you know like Superman looking and the reference flying over your head. Yes. Yes, that meme. You weren't dragged, whereas like you would just simply catch whatever was flowing over your head.

Speaker: Yes. No. This is true. Different different memes. Totally different memes. And so you started hanging out with Nick, and Nick sat you down and said, you like animation?

Speaker: Let's watch Clone Wars. And so we're watching it and we are going over your reactions to Clone Wars. And as we discovered, or not so much discovered, but kind of decoded last week, it turns out that the the the Star Wars aren't really you're your jam.

Speaker: Yeah, i mean, I like the stars. I like weird aliens and cool alien worlds. and you know That's a jelly. not Not that interested in the actual war part of the wars.

Speaker: Which is the jam. The jelly and the jam are in Michigan. Yeah. But it's still a good show, so we are going to finish out Clone Wars and then yeah and then figure out where we're going from there.

Speaker: and Or I'll ill just bully him to watch more Star Wars. Yeah, you are a bully. You were advocating for bullies earlier today. Yes.

Speaker: they They have. They're part of the ecosystem. yeah I think we should be removing them from the ecosystem, though, honestly. Yes, not not advocating for them.

Speaker: there There were whole like protests and stuff about that yesterday. Oh, really? Nice. Yes. So... It's me? So, ah last time, you know like like I said, we unlocked that code, and we're not going to be pushing the buttons for what Lauren likes so much this time around. Yeah, not...

Speaker: Particularly. So we're we're looking at a particularly nasty part of Star Wars that's been around for decades and just sort of accepted as being there.

Speaker: no On this episode, we're going to be talking about ah first the three-part story, Kidnapped in Season 4, Episode 11, Slaves of the Republic, Season 4, Episode 12, and Escape from Kadavo, Season 4, Episode 13, and follow that up with the standalone story, A Friend in Need, Season 4, Episode 14. Oh, yeah.

Speaker: Some really solid episodes, but have some... the They have some things to be spoken about. Well, and and that's by design.

Speaker: Yes. It's not like they stumbled into things that later on became problematic. they They went into these episodes saying, yeah, this is bad. yes they went into these episodes saying yeah this this is bad It also isn't like the Naboo racism, where that didn't seem to be intentional, they were just being terrible.

Speaker: Yes. And it's very different from that. It's actually, it instead of being a weird and bad set dressing, this is actually the point. Yes. So we will kick this off with Kidnapped, Season 4, Episode 11.

Speaker: An entire colony of people vanish from the planet Kuros. Yes, and we take place on and artisan planet of peace where Ahsoka's species live. Yes, Tagrutas.

Speaker: Tagrutas. And Count Dooku himself shows up to... negotiate with... I feel those those those explanation points need to be like maybe 10 times bigger.

Speaker: but The quotation marks around negotiate? yes Yes. If this were a video podcast, we would be like doing... heavy, heavy air quotes. but i hear Here, here, I'll say it. I'll i'll say it verbally.

Speaker: Count Dooku himself shows up to negotiate with the Togrua colony of Kiros. Yeah, that's that that's more fitting.

Speaker: it And then when they politely decline his offer of a safe haven from the family... Yeah, yeah, getting it. You're getting the vibe.

Speaker: When they turn down that offer ah for that safe haven from the fighting of the Clone Wars. Oh, i let me get in now. He insists. a And then the population is rounded up by Zygarian slavers.

Speaker: Yep. Which are a classical slaving group from as far back as the West End game, role-playing games of Star Wars. Right. Good to know. And so Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Ahsoka show up.

Speaker: Ten rotations later. Now, I made note of this because from what I can recall, it's one of the few times that actual significant travel times are clearly indicated in Star Wars rather than travel happening at the speed of plot.

Speaker: Also, specifically, time time being calculated not by galactic standard time. Right. To our knowledge. It could, I assume because it's not clocked as galactic standard time.

Speaker: I assume this means like Kuros 10 rotations. Yes, probably. Right. Mainly because they usually, if we assume every other time moment of time mentioned is on a galactic standard clock.

Speaker: And, So it's 10 rotations. I assume that means rotations of the planet Kyrrhos, which is 10 Kyrrhos days, right? Yes, probably. could be variable ah to Galactic Standard days. Galactic Standard days are on 24 hours just because convenience.

Speaker: But what makes makes it noteworthy to me is it took 10 days for them to get there from wherever they were. Assumably Coruscant. Assumably that that's where they got the information. or they Whereas in in like The Rise of Skywalker, they're zipping all over the galaxy on multiple little side quests in the span of like 18 hours.

Speaker: Because there's an 8-hour countdown that's given. Lightspeed skiffing, Daryl. Nah, nah, nah. That was before that 18-hour timer started.

Speaker: I mean, and I guess there is a good point to note that, you know, Rise of Skywalker takes place decades later. So space travel technology might be better and at that point in time?

Speaker: Not on the Millennium Falcon.

Speaker: Well, the Millennium Falcon is also busted as heck, because like it goes 0.5 on a... The lowest is a 1. Yeah.

Speaker: it So, yeah i don't know. i I just, I found that interesting that it's one of the rare cases where there's actually, um uncle yeah there's actually a significant amount of travel time to cross part of a galaxy.

Speaker: And again, like,

Speaker: since they are the Jedi and part of the military, they have the most the highest hyperspace ratings at the time period. But like either way, it's still interesting that they used a time period to market and one that like we can assume is like local time rather than the galactic standard time.

Speaker: That's a fun world building thing yeah that us nerds nerds are about. We have yeah but just spent several minutes going like, worst travel time ever. you worst travel time ever

Speaker: In any case, whenever they arrive, they arrive to an emptied city. Nobody is around to greet them. Nope. No one at Not a living soul.

Speaker: Until there's a hoverbike fight. I'm surprised they did that it's too quiet. Yeah. But there's hoverbike fight. Yes, so it's no longer quiet. And there's still not another living soul because those are battle droids. Mm-hmm.

Speaker: So...

Speaker: And then I've got Anakin handling the slaver. yeah Yes. they and Because Anakin has has as a, he might have ah have a couple feelings about the concept of slavery.

Speaker: He's in his element here, murdering slavers. Right. And so the Zygarian commander requests to meet with Obi-Wan to negotiate surrender and Isn't it interesting how he doesn't say who's surrender?

Speaker: Yes, very interesting indeed. And wording is very important. Yes, yes, yes it is. Foreshadowing is a literary device.

Speaker: I'm so glad we have that voice now. It's so useful. Honestly, we just need a button for that, just in general. I do now. Yeah, but we need the button too.

Speaker: mean, like in real life, it's like just like at the table. Oh, I Foreshadowing is a literary device. It's like one of those staples, it's easy buttons or whatever. Yes.

Speaker: But Anakin has a particularly strong reaction to the commander and reluctantly agrees not to handle. Well, i got this one.

Speaker: Handle. him when Obi-Wan insists on meeting as requested. And that that leaves Ahsoka kind of confused here.

Speaker: Why is he so upset? Anakin has never talked about his past, has he? Only to tell me he won't talk about it. As a child, Anakin and his mother were sold into slavery by the Hutt clans.

Speaker: Oh. And these Zygerians, they're slavers. Anakin has struggled to put his past behind him.

Speaker: Don't worry. I'll keep an eye on him. Yes. Make sure you do.

Speaker: And I hear Betsy in the distance yelling many things. Yes. Yes. And so Obi-Wan goes to meet with the Zygerian commander and yep.

Speaker: Say it with me now. It's a trap. It's a trap. It's a trap.

Speaker: And so, ah yeah, the Zygerian commander using explosives to force a surrender. And Obi-Wan gives in. Yep, he he threatens to detonate bombs, killing the Togruta hostages.

Speaker: And he sets off one in an empty building just to prove that he's serious. hey And Obi-Wan then challenges him to a Zygerian tradition of unarmed combat to see who's going to give in.

Speaker: And he gets thrown around like a ragdoll to buy Anakin and Ahsoka time to find and disarm the bomb. It's a Obi-Wan thing. Yeah, Obi-Wan's like, okay, I'm going to let him hand me my ass so that Anakin can go do his his standard nonsense.

Speaker: And then Anakin disarms the first bomb in... and you Typical Anakin fashion. There must be a wire we should cut. Or something to stop the countdown.

Speaker: Stand back.

Speaker: How did you know that would work? ah trusted my instincts. You mean you guessed. Yeah, but it was an educated guess.

Speaker: Yes, Anakin slices the bomb, and it works. What is this, Mega Man powered up or something? He rolled a triumph on a success. Yes.

Speaker: And that's when we get the Bubble Boys Sniper Edition. Your favorites. We love you some droidekas. Yep.

Speaker: But these are a unique variant, and they are pretty cool. They are They are very cool. And there's there's multiple of them firing down at multiple different angles.

Speaker: and having Probably the best effective use of them as being a sniper unit that has a built-in seal generator. Yeah. Because they're having difficulties trying to deflect the deflect the shots directly back at them. But then they get some tricky angles. Because I'm pretty sure, if I recall correctly, these bubble boys don't have full bubbles.

Speaker: They're actually defenseless. Yes, they're forward-facing. And so instead of deflecting it directly back at the one firing... they deflect the shots back at an angle to their partner shots, essentially. So they attack them from the sides. It's a really cool scene, very well done.

Speaker: And eventually they get to the point where there's one bomb left.

Speaker: Yep, and they they yeah they they have a little more trouble with that one because it's... yeah it's um counting down till it explodes and they, they, they have to take it out.

Speaker: And that there is, there is another single bomb left too, that is put in that tech backpack on a tactical droid. That's up there in the, in the tower with the Zygerian commander.

Speaker: Yes. And then, the tactical droid is defenestrated explodes. And so they they go chasing down after the commander onto his escape ship.

Speaker: And also... There's a tactical monster. Yes. Which, is it just me, Nick? Or did did that kind of look like a precursor to... God!

Speaker: Kind of. Either way, it it doesn't resemble any known species at the time when this series came out. So it wouldn't surprise me it was like an inspiration because it just dev it's not a Dianoga. It's not anything that we've seen before.

Speaker: I don't think it even has a name in like canon. It's just there. We also get to see a funky looking laser whip weapon.

Speaker: Which is not a light whip. It's a distinct, different weapon. Yes. Right. Which we... I was about to say, we still haven't seen a light whip on on screen, have we?

Speaker: And then I remembered the Acolyte and Vernestra Rowe. Yay! Yay! We didn't see much of her light whip, but we did see it. yeah We saw... it's still look It was still cool.

Speaker: Still pretty cool. And And so then Anakin and Ahsoka get up to the cockpit of the the slaver's ship. And Anakin very calmly asks... Oh, very calmly in the... in india Harry, did you put your name in the Goblet of the Fire?

Speaker: Calmly. Yeah. He asks the captured commander where the colonists are ah with the emitter of his unlit lightsaber pressed against the commander's throat.

Speaker: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. To the equivalent of an individual pressing the... the the front-facing point of a firearm to them.

Speaker: Yes, ah the the muzzle of a gun at someone's forehead, basically, saying, yeah you want to tell me where it's at, where they are? And, yeah, the population vanished.

Speaker: And that leads us directly into the next episode. This one was all pretty much so some pretty action-packed setup to get us to... Honestly, good setup.

Speaker: Yeah. It was a good setup. Put us in the action. It was a good setup, and the the real heavy meat of this arc starts in the next episode, Slaves of the Republic, Season 4, Episode 12.

Speaker: Anakin, Ahsoka, Obi-Wan, and Rex go undercover as slavers. What could possibly go wrong? i feel this is going to be good vibes for everybody. Yep, definitely.

Speaker: So yeah, they are they're disguised as some real high-class scum. And they've got new outfits to go with it. Yep, they're wearing Zygerian armor. they're They're wearing traditional Zygerian armor, which... Except for Ahsoka.

Speaker: Right. Ahsoka, well, let's let's let's hear her say it. Remind me why I'm the one playing the part of the slave? I tried it once. I wasn't any good at it.

Speaker: Besides, the role of master comes easily to me. Really? Well, this time try to be convincing at it. Also, can we just say how how great Ahsoka's character development has been for throughout this entire series? yes Yes. and All the flowers to Ashley Eckstein.

Speaker: This may not be the best time to convey that, but she has matured as a character incredibly. As he's able to banter back against Anakin so effectively.

Speaker: Yes. Well, I mean, how could she not learn to banter? Because how many times have we called out the Obi-Wan Anakin banter in the course of these episodes?

Speaker: I got it, Santa. The inner Betsy's like, I learned if it from watching you, Anakin. Yeah. and And, you know, in that whole little exchange, I see what they did there.

Speaker: no I see what they did there. Once again, Anakin, I'm good at being a master. a um Yep.

Speaker: Spoilers. Spoilers, Daryl. I don't have to load it up this time. Again, I say poetry, so that they rhyme. have that one, but I don't have River Song loaded up this time.

Speaker: Ah.

Speaker: Yes, then the individual known as Bruno Dinturi gets Anakin in with the Queen. Yep, and he he manages to finagle an audience with the Zygerian Queen.

Speaker: He claims to have killed someone she doesn't care for and taken Ahsoka from him as as kind of his own reward for doing that from the other guy's pool of slaves.

Speaker: Anakin royalty he can't get get in the way with it Anakin certainly has a type and and that type is royalty And he tries flirting with her and, well, let's take a listen and see if he's improved any since Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones.

Speaker: Oh boy. you know, Attack of the Clones when he waxed on... Whoa, whoa, Phantom Menace, he had some game. ah Attack of the Clones, nobody lost it. Nick, Nick, thank you for saying game and not ever repeating the word riz, which we forbid you from ever saying again.

Speaker: I learned my lesson. Good. I'm glad that you did. But I mean, in Phantom Menace, he's like, are you an angel? And then in Attack of the co Clones, he talks about his hatred of sand and and his his massacre of an entire village of people.

Speaker: Um, so let's see what his- Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. and the women. And the children. drew So let's see if his flirting skills have improved any.

Speaker: Her demeanor leaves much to be desired. What is your price for her? With respect. How can I price the beauty of this slave when I look upon the magnificence of your highness, whose beauty would make the brightest star seem dull by comparison?

Speaker: Lars Quell, you flatter me. No, your majesty. However...

Speaker: Lars, stop it. Stop it You are a bold one, aren't you? My reputation precedes me, then. Perhaps we can find a way to put a price on your slave.

Speaker: Come. Walk with me.

Speaker: and I want to know what he whispered to her. Yeah, I feel like that's, so if we're ranking his flirtation skills, knowing what the whispering was is a critical factor in that we' regard. yeah Yes, although I think that would have ah have ruined our family-friendly rating.

Speaker: Yes, perhaps so. Actually, I think he did droid speak. You think he was just beeping at her?

Speaker: it did when When do we get to who are events is if there's an amazing ah deleted scene where Anakin does Hayden Christensen as Anakin Skywalker does speak droid speak. Oh boy. Looking forward to that then. And it is.

Speaker: And well R2-D2, according to George Lucas, is the most foul-mouthed character in all of Star Wars. Yes, naturally. Well, I mean, you know that's established in canon now.

Speaker: Yes. but it's say Sacred Island, watch the language.

Speaker: fa One of the best lines of the best. Yes. I can't say that yet, because otherwise we'll lose all of it all of our viewers. That's right.

Speaker: we will be called Disney shills. Oh no. We're forever out getting the Disney money. Right. we did They keep forgetting. They obviously don't know where to send the checks.

Speaker: ah But Obi-Wan and Rex start snooping around to try to find the Kuros. And they do find the Kuros governor. Also, I do feel bad that like... Why wasn't Cody invited on this?

Speaker: on this

Speaker: I mean, I don't know. Oh, oh, I remember something that when we were talking about what he whispered, since they're undercover, obviously Anakin wasn't talking about, you know, letting her hold on to his lightsaber like he did with Adme in that Senate episode.

Speaker: Well, well, literally, which was like multiple innuendos over and over again. Yeah, but see, since he's undercover, that's why he had to whisper it so that we couldn't hear it.

Speaker: Because he couldn't go the innuendo route. He had to be straightforward. Ooh, This is why I'm thinking he also just like... said it in droid speak.

Speaker: But as the queen... then he wouldn't need to whisper it. Yeah, if he did it in droid speak, he wouldn't they wouldn't need to have him whisper it.

Speaker: So there there was there was some lightsaber talk without using the word lightsaber. you know it's kind of like yeah He said, welcome to the frickin' Guardians of the Galaxy. Only he didn't say frickin'.

Speaker: and So the the Queen starts waxing philosophical about slavery being ah the natural order of things. Oh yeah, of course.

Speaker: And while she's doing that, her Twilight slave tries to stab her. Again, also, for those who aren't in the Star Wars... universe, knowing that like, Krileks are, like, very much in the slate, are slaves portrayed heavily.

Speaker: Like, the major slave trade. Right, and Anakin stops her from stabbing the queen. I'm sure, left to his own devices, this is Anakin. He probably would have said, yeah, you go ahead.

Speaker: But... um yeah this time though yeah you have cover yeah he's undercover he had to keep his cover he's playing a part so he stops her and when he does she throws herself off the building rather than go through what they refer to as processing again and Anakin can only just and watch without blowing his cover and And remember, as always, this is a kid's show.

Speaker: Yep. There is nothing heavy or important or something you should reflect upon in this television show about space and wars and... ah Oh, wow, that person has just ah committed suicide. yeah Well, and this is the second time, at least, in this series that we have seen this kind of suicide.

Speaker: Yep. Mandalorian arc, too. Mm-hmm. So, uh... Kid Show! Kid Show! I mean, you know George Lucas liked cutting limbs off in the movies, and Filoni likes throwing people off of high i places.

Speaker: Well, fall damage is a thing in the Star Wars RPG. Yes. Yes, fall damage is a thing. Sometimes gravity happens. So Obi-Wan's caught, he's recognized, and he is presented in front of this huge slave auction.

Speaker: Which is very uncomfortable, but it's intentional. It's meant to be rather uncomfortable. yeah it's It's a slave auction. They are not hiding any of like the emotional little beats. like were We're playing around and joking around, it's like...

Speaker: Yeah, mean this is not a comfortable episode. There is no subtext to this story. This is all text. It's just text. Yep. ah So we're we're doing the bit to like make it more like palatable.

Speaker: So the Queen sends Anakin, who still has his cover intact, to teach the Jedi his place. a And is this ah is this the part where R2 does the thing?

Speaker: the up he and and it's in some of these's this take action What this tells me is that in Return of the Jedi, that that wasn't Luke's idea.

Speaker: Yeah, no, that was R2's idea. That was R2 saying, hey, come here a second, I got an idea. I got an idea, man. ah yeah I see what you're saying. When Luke is like, all right, I need to get my lightsaber to me at some point.

Speaker: it's like R2 is like... I got just the thing. I've done this before. i have this one. I've played these games before. I've seen this episode before. It's a great one.

Speaker: And to note, in case anybody doesn't know, whenever R2 does the thing, ejects Anakin's lightsaber out of himself. Which is exactly from the most... One of the iconic moments from episode 6, Return of the Jedi.

Speaker: head And in this case, he doesn't just do it for Anakin. he He shoots out Anakin's lightsaber. and Obi-Wan's lightsaber, and both of Ahsoka's lightsabers.

Speaker: Which implies that he just has a lightsaber launch system yes in him. For not just one, multiple.

Speaker: Well, what this implies is that the interior of, if not all, Astromech's R2-D2 is a TARDIS. Yes. ah true but i assume i assume that R2-D2, since Anakin is a mechanic, is a droid builder, R2-D2 has all... the It's basically just a 007 James Bond thing with everything built in.

Speaker: What you're saying is that Anakin built a TARDIS. Basically. Yeah, because you the the laws of physics, I mean, the size of R2's dome and the fact that it normally can rotate 360 and the length of a lightsaber hilt indicates that there's more, and the fact that he just had four lightsabers in there to launch out, there's more interior space than there is so exterior surface area.

Speaker: Also, remember that R2-D2... You are in a cave, Nick.

Speaker: You are in a cave. R2-D2 is an astromech droid, so he has massive amounts of memory banks inside of him already. Anakin had, like, moved those things around put his new gear in there so that he can do astromech Let's throw a mechanic to figure out the stars and stuff.

Speaker: But our our heroes really don't fare very well. um Yeah, Ahsoka gets zapped, and then Anakin goes in for an instant force choke in retaliation. it's ah It's all pretty bad. yeah Everyone rolls in a spare in this scene. Yes.

Speaker: So if they're all captured. The queen still kind of has eyes for Anakin, and she offers to make him... But the dynamic has changed. Yeah, she offers to make him her bodyguard and holds the others' as leverage.

Speaker: Yes. We see Ahsoka meditating in a cage, and we see a scene of a concentration camp. And... Obi-Wan, Rex, and the Togruta governor are ah are taken for brought that aforementioned processing.

Speaker: And then they see many of the other Togruta there. And some of them are executed ah with Obi-Wan threatened that more going to be killed if he gets out of line. They they literally just dropped them dropped them off of a cliff.

Speaker: a and For kids. And say... Yeah, you you need to stay in line or we're going to kill more of them. Have a nice day.

Speaker: And Anakin, the former slave, at the end of the episode, is now in the unenviable position of keeping his friends alive.

Speaker: And as the Queen puts it, if they are to live as slaves, it will be you who keeps them that way.

Speaker: Again, like... and I feel that this is a good point too. We made the point of like, it's a kid. So, but it's dark. Like, no, this is one of the most incredibly dark endings to an episode possible. Yeah.

Speaker: Everyone is not just in a terrible spot. Like this is a realistically terrible spot. Yeah. It is something that happens in real life. It's happened in history. It's and dark.

Speaker: Oh, yeah. we'll we'll We'll talk on this in a couple of minutes. Yeah. but just say It just needs to be... Again, I've had so many conversations with people. It's like, should I watch Clone Wars since a kid? So it's like, if you're approaching with that, you are not appreciating or understanding what Star Wars is.

Speaker: Nope.

Speaker: Oh, hey, you know, that just made me think of something. ah Although therere there is there is still some of the War in the Stars to it, of all of the the Star Wars animated stuff, Lauren, you know what is probably most up your alley?

Speaker: What? Star Wars Resistance. Not familiar with that one. was going to also say Skeleton Crew? Well, I'm thinking of Animated. fan anim And the reason I say that is, you know how, you know, all of the Disney ah kids adventure shows that are about, um you know, a, a well-meaning, but kind of bumbling main character who,

Speaker: you know is really only good at one thing, but when they get to do that one thing, they really shine, and they're helped along in their adventures by their wacky friends and their long-suffering mentor.

Speaker: Okay, take that, make it animated, and put it in Star Wars. And that's what Star Wars Resistance is. We have a lot of wacky and unique ah side characters in a unique setting.

Speaker: Well, all right, cool. but I guess I'd be willing to give that a shot at at some point or another. It'll take us 20 years there. Yes, at the rate we're going, it'll take us 20 years because it's set during the sequel trilogy.

Speaker: Oh, okay.

Speaker: But we can get there. That just popped into my head the way were with us talking about... ah See, with like, Skeletic Guru. A fun, wacky adventure with a little bit of darkness to it, but......abnostic to most of the lore.

Speaker: With sort of a fun, like, Treasure Island vibe. Yes, but we know she prefers animation to live action, so... That's what made me think of... That and talking about kids' shows in general are what made me think of Resistance. Anyway...

Speaker: that That was a side tangent. said Sorry. and yeah it guitar for for but I feel like it is important to note that you know it doesn't have to be kids shows.

Speaker: No, no, no, no, no. it's that so it just It's more that my my taste my taste is more that I'm just not interested in military elements.

Speaker: I'm not interested in the military. I'm not interested in war. I'm interested in space. And the themes, they can still be dark and mature and can go over things that are more adult in nature. You've liked Vision yeah <unk> thinking more yeah i was just thinking more the the general vibe of the episodes that have worked for you the best.

Speaker: Of Clone Wars. yeah That's the same overall vibe that you get out of Resistance. Nice. But, yeah. Anyway, we we can go on now. food yeah To Escape from Kadavo Season 4, Episode 13. Hey, that's my part.

Speaker: i

Speaker: Anakin tries to convince a tweet a queen that she, too, is a slave. Mm-hmm. Yes, and we start off in the slavery mines.

Speaker: And in an understatement, life isn't good for Obi-Wan, Rex, and the Togruta in that mine. I will say that in this show, there's not a sign away on how brutal this book the scene. The scene is not... no Nothing is being held back.

Speaker: Oh, yeah, it's pretty intense. No, they... they punish Obi-Wan quite painfully for stepping in to stop another one of the slaves from being punished.

Speaker: And they're like, okay, we're going to punish you. Now you sit down. And because of what you just did, we're going to punish the guy that you stepped in front of some more.

Speaker: and And this is, this does come from actual like history. and stuff like that. so is it is It's heavy.

Speaker: It's rough.

Speaker: Yep. It's effective.

Speaker: Meanwhile, in the palace, Catgirl's seduction. Yep, the queen is still is still all over Anakin.

Speaker: she she She wants some of that lightsaber. er she knows how good he is with a lightsaber and that's not the metaphor is it there's no metaphor here yes there is yes there is and Sidious Darth Sidious sends Dooku to procure millions of slaves you know and again you know we are Nothing is being sugarcoated here. Sidious tells him, oh yeah yeah, the Sith Empire is built on the back of slaves, so we're going to need some for when we win this.

Speaker: We need millions. And it's like,

Speaker: wow, this is really dark. like But if the Queen doesn't keep playing along with with dooku then the count has orders to end her rule yep yep so keep keep us make sure she keeps a steady supply of slaves going or get her out of the picture in favor of somebody who will mm-hmm

Speaker: And whenever Dooku arrives on the scene, he is also he is coming for Anakin. And he's uninterested in Jedi slaves.

Speaker: Only Jedi execution. Right, because the Queen has some rather troubling ideas about what keeping Jedi slaves symbolizes.

Speaker: and pretty matter-of-factly spells out how they're breaking Obi-Wan. Yeah. i wasn't expecting you count without an invitation but i was invited by your faithful adviser

Speaker: he's concerned over how attached you've become to skywalker skywalker is a symbol of my our power to enslave even jadda your power over him is an illusion you forget i was once a jedi myself You have little in common with Anakin.

Speaker: and Please, hear my plans for the Jedi, then decide. Right now, at my facility in the Kadavo system, Obi-Wan Kenobi is in despair. I'm listening.

Speaker: Kenobi is coming to realize, perhaps for the first time in his life, that his efforts to help others will only injure them.

Speaker: As plans for escape and hopes of rescue fade, the gnawing fear that he will never be able to take action will grow in Kenobi's heart.

Speaker: To ease the burden of his fellow slaves, defiance will become compliance. When Kenobi realizes he cannot help those around him, his spirit will break and he will be

Speaker: If such Jedi as Skywalker and Kenobi can fall, how many others will follow? Hmm?

Speaker: Imagine. Imagine an army of Jedi in your service. Zygeria will be invincible. The most ambitious plan, your highness.

Speaker: Only my goal is not the enslavement of the Jedi Order, but its extermination. I've come to supervise their execution, perform it if necessary.

Speaker: There is so much to, like... examined from this one interaction. Honestly, this is the most interesting interaction of the entire arc. That's why I let the whole thing go, even though it was a long clip.

Speaker: Oh, yeah. But it's like, there's so much, especially since... i There is a lot more to learn about Dooku in the future, Loren.

Speaker: Oh, I believe it. But the this is... really telling of who he is in the Clone Wars. He is not.

Speaker: He is a former Jedi. He's now a Sith Lord and he is doesn't even care to take in the Jedi. He doesn't want to break Jedi to even be servants.

Speaker: He believes the Jedi need to be exterminated.

Speaker: And I'm not saying that this sort of psychological warfare that she's talking about is going on right now in the real world or anything, but I'm also not not saying that.

Speaker: oh You don't even have to say that this level of breaking down individuals through who torture and things is it's a real thing.

Speaker: And not not even so much torture of those individuals, but the people that those individuals want to protect. No, no, no. The more you try to protect them, the more I'm going to hurt them.

Speaker: So if you don't if you want me to stop hurting them, you need to stop protecting them. But I'm still going to keep hurting them. But the more you try to protect them, the more I will hurt them.

Speaker: that the the Both of these are actual real... And again, like also the dichotomy between... Dooku is a Sith Lord... The queen is a slaver.

Speaker: Both of them are pure evil. And they are at... They are literally discussing civilly how they want to do something so dark and disgusting as literally breaking a noble... The Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Speaker: The noble Jedi Knight.

Speaker: And whether they should break him or kill him. And ah she is... Her point of view... casualty. we With casualness.

Speaker: Her point of view makes sense, too. It's like, look, the Jedi are seen as these super powerful and virtuous and unbreakable beings.

Speaker: And if I can break them, what does that say about me? can write... I can break an army. But Dooku is like, he's a Sith Lord. like Power is consolidated in individuals.

Speaker: He's like, I don't want you to break Obi-Wan into a ah slave. I need to understand his power and how that will benefit me.

Speaker: And then remove it. And a threat. But I do like that that one moment where she's like, oh, let me, here's how he's suffering. And he's like, oh, really?

Speaker: Tell me more. the Because again, remember, Dooku was but trained by Obi-Wan's master.

Speaker: Or trained Obi-Wan's master. ah Qui-Gon Jinn.

Speaker: They are part of a lineage.

Speaker: Dooku may not like Obi-Wan, but he does have interests in his career. I think there's also the factor that although we haven't quite seen it yet, when we do see some degree of Sith training, it does involve ah substantial amounts of torture to basically get the Sith pupil to give in to their anger and their torment.

Speaker: To raise, to do do give in to their passions, their anger, their hatred. And so in that regard, I think that might also be why he was interested in the idea of her torturing Obi-Wan because that would essentially be Sith training to a certain degree.

Speaker: But what he, I, now that I see that from that perspective, he doesn't like that he wants him, her, wants Obi-Wan to submit to her. That, that would be weakness.

Speaker: He would, be more powerful if he usurped her.

Speaker: That is the way of the Sith.

Speaker: you know that there's multiple angles going on over here. Yeah, and yeah it's all really, really it's very meaty stuff, and this This is one of those cases, you a lot of times Star Wars will couch all of its social commentary in metaphor or parallels or to to borrow from that other franchise that we've been talking about looking into, ah in the words of Gene Roddenberry, you know,

Speaker: he' He always said about Star Trek, the original series, I could get these morality plays past the network if I'm writing about little green men instead of present-day humans.

Speaker: yeah the same sort of thing here. There's a lot to say here. And in this case, though, the metaphor portion is super thin.

Speaker: They are being incredibly on-the-nose and and unapologetic about it and I have zero issue with that. but yeah like Honestly, like as a little behind the scenes fact, I think all of us are really are running on fumes for various reasons.

Speaker: But like there's a lot to talk about. There's a lot of good stuff here. There Yeah.

Speaker: But we gotta keep going because we're also, again, running on fumes. Yeah. Yeah, so Anakin frees Ahsoka and she's kind of salty that he immediately puts her in a holding pattern for the resolution of everything. you know here Here's a comm link.

Speaker: Go back to the ship and stand by. Wait for my signal. She's a little bit salty about that. I mean, she was put put into the slave girl outfit and had to do that for the whole episode.

Speaker: Yep. And the the queen is still kind of thirsty for It have been worse. It could have been worse. It but it wasn't the Leia outfit. This is true. Right. This is true.

Speaker: We can assume that in animation that Lucas may have been said like in animation that he could have space on the wearer. of course the queen is still thirsty for anakin which has her refusing to kill him and so her advisor said says that she's not fit to lead and dooku just starts to force choke her out right there before anakin interrupts and you know anakin postures that

Speaker: He doesn't care if Dooku kills the slaver scum. And then the two of them begin a duel and Dooku's using his lightsaber. And Anakin, even though he has his lightsaber, is using one of the Zygerian stun whips.

Speaker: Yeah. Just because it it looks cool, I guess. It does look cool. it's like It is very cool scene. But I do like that there was that moment where Anakin would be like...

Speaker: Yeah, I hate slavers, and I hate Dooku, but I hate Dooku more. hey but I'm not going to help her. i just going to kick his ass.

Speaker: And you know as the fight ends, yeah, Lauren, I see that you have a note in here, but I think it's in the wrong spot. Yeah, I think so. ah love yeah The guards enter.

Speaker: They see the queen is still lying on the ground, unconscious. But Dooku's like, oh, the Jedi killed her. yeah You need to take him out. ye And Anakin escapes with the queen and she dies saying that he was right and that she's a slave just like he is.

Speaker: But fortunately, she also told him where he can find Obi-Wan. Yes. But also I feel that that's my one thing about this. Like, it's supposed to redeem her, supposedly. Like, no.

Speaker: No. Yeah, not not really.

Speaker: ah yeah i don't see so much the redeeming. No, no, no. that thats how that like say In the narrative, in most narratives, it's like, oh,

Speaker: she recognized her wrongdoing and in her last doing. He's like, ah no. ah no you didn't. You just died. Yeah, she didn't she didn't recognize that she didn't recognize that she that her slavery was wrong. She recognized that she herself was being played.

Speaker: And nor did she dissolve her slave empire. right In fact, that's like there's there's no redemption for that character. iss like I've seen people talk like, oh, that was her hi her dying. And then I see her redemption.

Speaker: She died because she died. And

Speaker: nothing that she did was to end that stuff. It's just she recognized that she was played. and that's That's still semi-redemption. Like, she understood that she was played, but like... No, the Siberian slave empire is still there.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: So yes, and likely being being being controlled by by a Separatist puppet. Mm-hmm.

Speaker: Yes, as we move on, Dooku phones in to kill Obi-Wan. And meanwhile, Anakin phones in to ah bring reinforcements to save Obi-Wan.

Speaker: Yep. Right. And so they they do show up and the the reinforcements come in and Plo Koon is a badass fighter pilot.

Speaker: Because... um

Speaker: You know, it's Dave Filoni's OC, basically. it it's it He gets to be good at everything. Yep, he goes from, you know, background character just standing around in the movies to being, you know, a super badass.

Speaker: ah fun Fun fact. um I know we haven't gotten to The Mandalorian with you yet, Lauren, but... I presume from memes, because you are the... The meme lord.

Speaker: The ultimate meme. That you know how season two of The Mandalorian ended and what characters showed up to save the day. I'm not actually sure about that one.

Speaker: Well then, we will table this conversation for when and if we actually do cover The Mandalorians.

Speaker: I'm actually pulling you all into i mean that. It's also important to keep in mind, i am not somebody who cares about spoilers even a little bit. like okay well so In that case, so at the end, Mandalorian and his allies are...

Speaker: they're kind of winning, but they're also on the back foot a little bit. There's these, you know insanely powerful, um, Imperial battle droids that kind of have them, them, uh, cornered with, even though the, the leader of the Imperial forces that they've, that they've come after, they have him prisoner.

Speaker: These droids are too much for them to get through and make their way out. It's basically an, There's no way out. Ah, yes. and and alone And also, they have a whole... Again, on the ship is like certified badasses, but we throughout the series, we've proved that they can't get out. They don't match for these droids.

Speaker: Right. And so, then a single fighter craft docks on the ship. And you you see... Everyone's confused. You see a cloaked figure on the monitors with a lightsaber just slicing through these droids like... Like a hard knife with butter. Yeah.

Speaker: And it turns out to be Luke. Right. Nice. But... what they were The script to keep that a secret said that it was Plo Koon. They even had actual run-through with a Plo Koon costume.

Speaker: Nice. and so yeah so Just just just to because, again, there's a lot of leaks going on. But you know that that just goes back to, again, since Filoni is an executive producer of The Mandalorian, he's like, yeah, we're going to throw people off by using my boy.

Speaker: a Nice. But he used them to throw them off. was like But also, was like when that leaked, also, everyone was like, of course he would. Of course he would!

Speaker: So, the slave supervisor taunts Obi-Wan that Obi-Wan has him cornered. He's like, I know that it a Jedi won't kill an unarmed man.

Speaker: so Rex does it, stabbing him through the chest and pinning him to his chair. Yeah! And saying, I'm no Jedi.

Speaker: and Yep. I didn't really realize until starting this rewatch how early and often that phrase came into play.

Speaker: Especially given how it's used later. Where we're going in the future. They rhyme. Foreshadowing is a literary device. Mm-hmm.

Speaker: lauren ah Lauren, of the series, we are... We can skip some of them. Based on your preferences, but you have to see Rebels.

Speaker: Alright. Rebels is... Honestly, I feel that Rebels is my favorite Star Wars series. but Yes, i would I would agree with that.

Speaker: And if you're like me... And it has a lot more of your things that you like. And I went into Rebels from seeing the previews going...

Speaker: I'm not sure about this, but because it says Star Wars, I'm going to give it a try.

Speaker: i went into it because I actually i liked it because I liked the Ralph McQuarrie art style. Oh, yeah. That was fun.

Speaker: I'm just as a whole, i was like, Yeah, this looks like I might not be the the target audience. This might not be for me, but let me give it a try. Well, you know what? I may not have been the target audience, but it was for me.

Speaker: Nice. I think it is the target audience for for me, honestly. But we can get into that.

Speaker: We have one more episode to get into. Yeah. Well, first of all, it's important to note that Anakin is in his element, murdering slavers. Yeah! And the backup the backup for them is very episode four aesthetic with the officers and the clones. And it's like, this is, we can really see how this is leading into the Empire. Yes, we can.

Speaker: And then ah my last note here says Ahsoka was the real hero. Yes, she was. I don't remember why Because she was the one who actually got the prisoners out and onto the Republic ship.

Speaker: And as like actually like espoused the actual part of the Republic. It's like, yes, you're going home. The Republic is going to help you.

Speaker: Have you back home. Mm-hmm. See? Yeah, and they they take them back to Kiros. the The governor has a nice little talk, you know, you telling Ahsoka that she she did a great service for her people and all of this. and They've rescued the slaves.

Speaker: They've destroyed the facility. And the Togruta on Kiros are likely to join the Republic. So happy ending. Yay. Yay. Yeah. ah But, but is it is it really a happy ending?

Speaker: Because this arc looked really closely at an aspect of the Star Wars world that's typically just kind of glossed over. That there's an active, ongoing, even thriving slave trade in the galaxy. Slave empires? empires?

Speaker: slave Culture. Yeah. Multiple of them. most that The Hutts, multiple crime gangs. Yeah. And this arc, you it had one line pay paying lip service to the Jedi having crippled the Zygarian slave trade long, long ago.

Speaker: But other than that... Oh, guess what? It's still going on! Other than that, the Republic doesn't seem to be too interested in doing anything ah about it unless it specifically serves their interests.

Speaker: But guess what? what because Unfortunately, there's a large galactic war going on. Well, it and but even even if we look at The Phantom Menace...

Speaker: Qui-Gon kind of shrugs off the notion of freeing the slaves on Tatooine because, oh, it's hot space. It's not under the Republic's jurisdiction. are you going to do? Oh, the Jedi failing to to do their job towards peace and justice in the galaxy. This would have been in that.

Speaker: Well, actually, they are doing their job of keeping peace, technically. It's just not a good piece. And in this arc, would the Republic... Lauren, you're getting the subtext.

Speaker: And in this arc, would the Republic have gone to all of the trouble to free the to stop the Zygarians and free the Togruta if Obi-Wan wasn't also a prisoner and Anakin called in the proverbial category cavalry?

Speaker: because what Would they have cared if they weren't Turgutas, which were the species of Anakin's battle? And the Zygarian Queen's dead, but there's only one slave facility destroyed. And I would presume that her advisor or someone else who's more amenable to Dooku and the Separatists is in charge now.

Speaker: Who's paying paying for the slave trade? The Separatists. Or who else is saving paying for the slave trade? The Republic. but the The Republic gets their people and the Togruta from Kuros back and just flies off to another adventure.

Speaker: And it's sort of a weird space to leave things. And yes, it's constrained by other Star Wars media that has a particular status quo, but...

Speaker: ah we But there's also a story telling here. Are we trying to show some of the more subtle indications that the Republic is decaying or what? ah And meanwhile, personally...

Speaker: this is a really strong arc because it's saying a lot and not hiding it like we've talked about, but I personally would have liked to see some more of how Anakin's own status as a former slave was informing his outlook on this mission.

Speaker: Aside from, you know the couple of outbursts of anger where he was like, Ooh, grr, slavers. And honestly, the idea that he is constrained by his so-called,

Speaker: by the order, he's he's hiding the fact that like if he was untethered, unleashed, he would have done major damage. Would have actually solved the problem. and See, I think that's kind of a lost opportunity given that we all know the path that Anakin is on.

Speaker: Yes. It's kind of did he ah lost opportunity to to kind of have a couple of more stops along that road. Honestly, I would say like that builds to the fact that when he finally snaps, he is teetering the line. He's always being like, I need to be the Jedi Knight.

Speaker: but Until finally, everything... it Eventually, it all teeters to... The camel snaps it back.

Speaker: It's like, i need... Well, there's there's that, and there's there's also, as we keep saying, despite all of the elements of this arc that seem to contradict that, this is a kid's show.

Speaker: That, too. That... There's like, honestly, on top of that, there's like, honestly, this is a great microcosm of like the Anakin arc. It's like, we have to balance like his, his eventual snapping to the fact that he has to be in a kid's show.

Speaker: And then that's the Slaves of the Republic arc. And that takes us into a standalone episode, A Friend in Need, season four, episode 14. Ahsoka is ensnared in Lux Bontari's dangerous crusade for justice. Now, my first instinct is to say that yeah we have a little bit of palate cleanser, a little bit of change in tone here.

Speaker: But you know what? Not really. it's yeah It's a dark episode. and has It also has like connections to previous arcs. And and future arcs.

Speaker: ah But it it's at first it's like, oh, you it's an Ahsoka adventure. But again like this is this is pretty dark. Daryl, if we were doing this podcast 10 years ago...

Speaker: this This arc would be like, okay, this is a weird one-off episode.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: But... Hindsight... It sets up so many things. there There is a lot that it sets up. um So, Mandalore is...

Speaker: And Lauren sees, o it's Mandalore. Yeah! like that thatt No,

Speaker: between the republic and the separatists And Lux Bonteri from an earlier arc comes just waltzing wal Waltzing into the Mandalorian you know like equivalent of the Oval Office.

Speaker: and he's he's He's from Onderon. There's so many things. that like

Speaker: He's the Onderonian senator... He was in front of the episode where... and But yeah, he he just comes waltzing in. And it's good timing, though, you know for Padme, because it's an awkward moment that he interrupts, because the Separatist representative is insisting that Padme, who is Chancellor Palpatine's rightful representative at the negotiations, recognize the legitimacy of the Separatist state.

Speaker: But Lux comes in, interrupts by declaring that his mother, a loyal Separatist, was murdered by Count Dooku. and Which we established last season.

Speaker: And the Separatists have him hauled off by commando droids saying, now we'll take care of these outrageous accusations ourselves. Pay no attention to him. pay Pay no mind.

Speaker: And Lux gets taken before a Dooku can't even be there in person. He does this via via space zoom.

Speaker: Those are some rather strong accusations you have levied against me. You know what you did, Dooku. Do I? I've done a lot of things, young man, and choose to remember them in order of importance.

Speaker: The death of your mother seems to have... escaped me. I will have my revenge. I think it is time we reacquaint the young senator with his mother.

Speaker: Kill him. Dooku is... ah yeah like not Not to put any shade on the late Christopher Lee.

Speaker: He was amazing.

Speaker: But Clone Wars Dooku is so... That's a good villain. Yeah, he's got some real M. Bison, but for me it was Tuesday. Yes, you get that.

Speaker: And so Ahsoka comes in She rescues Lux. ah But Lux claims to have a plan.

Speaker: He's not a separatist anymore, but he he won't join the Republic. He won't let Ahsoka take him to the Republic where he can be safe. either. he so He stuns her and... yes Go ahead.

Speaker: Yeah, he he eats he tases Ahsoka and he takes her lightsabers. And then he heads off to meet his allies. ah Death Watch. His allies are Death Watch.

Speaker: His allies are Death Watch. And it's like, oh, wow. So you you went from from the actual baddies the Taliban.

Speaker: Mm-hmm. So, at this point, we have we have the introduction of a character whose name is never mentioned once in this episode.

Speaker: But she is important. She is very important. we We said that this is setting up a lot to come. ah We have the entrance of Bo-Katan. Bo-Katan.

Speaker: And so welcome Battlestar Galactica's Katie Sackhoff to Star Wars. um Also, see, it's one of those people dinner are that are just apparently immortal. like

Speaker: Bo-Katan or Katie Sackhoff or both? Yes. Both. I agree. I agree. Um... But yeah, ki keep an eye on that character. This is not her first appearance, or this is her first appearance, but it won't be her last.

Speaker: it It's Star Wars and Clone Wars, and we're going to see her for a while. Yeah, and I have no problem with this. Same thing. is No problem.

Speaker: So Lux traced Dooku's signal, and he plans to give Dooku's location to Death Watch, So that they can kill him.

Speaker: Of course. And yeah and we we have to have the sequence where we meet with Deathlots and ah Bogotan has a reaction to Ahsoka, which is weird.

Speaker: Yep, and I didn't put a note in here, and none of us did, but um they they explain Ahsoka's presence with Lux because he was supposed to come alone, but oh, ah she's my ah betrothed! I'm his betrothed.

Speaker: Yep, and...

Speaker: And Bo-Katan takes that information, circles around, and just smacks her on the butt for some reason. I mean...

Speaker: I mean, you know... It's odd. Yeah, but white so but it's totally in character for Bo.

Speaker: um arguably Arguably, that's how how I recognize Ahsoka when they... in in the pre in a later season.

Speaker: And... yeah I mean, come on. If if Katie Sackhoff wants to slap me on the butt, yeah I'm good with that. um Anyway. ah I and hope you're... I know your wife be okay with that.

Speaker: Yep. I would just have to to to share. um

Speaker: oh Beautiful. so that's good that that's the That's a good marriage. no same there but also the The Death Watch members, they're they're killing time by just you casually murking droids that they have in the camp.

Speaker: Droids abuse. I feel that that was the big thing that you picked up, ah Lauren. Yeah, that's like... this it was just pure... Also because R2 is here too.

Speaker: Yes, R2 is here. And he has seen the droid abuse. And he is not about that. And what what comes next is maybe one of the creepiest scenes of the series.

Speaker: Maybe in all of Star Wars when the Death Watch Commandos give r two a task. You repair these droids so we can use them for target practice.

Speaker: Again. Please reassemble hello us. Please reassemble us. Please reassemble us.

Speaker: We are battle droids no longer. Please reassemble us. Please reassemble Please reassemble us. please we got

Speaker: ah know world pass past past the like the ah asa that's where we they like this fuck It is. There's no other way to describe it. And this is audio only, so you can't see it, but they they keep you like closing in around r two you Please reassemble us.

Speaker: Please, we... Oh my god. it just It's so and some of the most intense droid abuse in the series, honestly. Honestly, if you replace it with if actual people...

Speaker: you That'd be TVMA. It would not be visible. was like, it's, but again, like droids are for lack of a better, better use. It's like a proxy or abuse and stuff like that. But it's like,

Speaker: My God, that that is actually horrifying. It is terrifying. I totally did not remember this scene until I was watching this episode for this. Same year when I took my notes for this one too. I was like, oh no. Oh yeah.

Speaker: i did There's some dark stuff going on in this episode. like But I did not remember how bad this is. Like like Yeah, yeah this there's a lot of fun jokes about droids being abused. like ah This is actual, real droid abuse. It's scary.

Speaker: It's meant to be scary. and like My goodness, it was unknowable. Very. And so we then learn that Death Watch has kidnapped some local women, or ah probably more appropriate to call them girls.

Speaker: yeah and There's a lot going on you see They seem young. they They don't seem any older than Ahsoka, who's what, like 16 at this point?

Speaker: Something like that, yeah. Which her whole thing has been, like, she's apparently been betrothed to... Lux. Lux. And it also been assaulted...

Speaker: There's no way around it. She was assaulted there. But, ah you know, they've kidnapped these girls and the leader of the nearby village. There's a lot of questionable things going on here.

Speaker: the The leader of the nearby village that they took them from shows up and and demands that they return the girls and leave the planet.

Speaker: And Pre Vizsla is like, okay, you know what? You're, you're right. We're going to do that at dawn. We'll give them back to you at dawn. And then we're out of here. And Lux buys it.

Speaker: And he's, he says, Lux is, I can i understand. Like there's a lot of people that don't like Lux for not good reasons.

Speaker: But I feel for like Lux is a naive individual. yeah Especially here. guys He is very much, see, they ain't so bad, are they? yeah The look on Ahsoka's face, like, oh, my sweet summer child.

Speaker: Like, again, he, see, he has not experienced war, He thinks about war. He wants revenge. He doesn't know that. He's he's given in to terrorists.

Speaker: But he doesn't know anything about like what's going on. and again, when people say, oh, he he's bad because he was throwing in with the Sephardists, yeah, he's throwing in with them because he want wants revenge because his parents are dead.

Speaker: He doesn't know what's going on.

Speaker: and And guess what he learns... coming up. And so, first thing in the morning, Death Watch shows up at the village, gives the chieftain back his granddaughter, who Vizsla then promptly stabs through the stomach with the darksaber and orders his troops to kill everyone in the village.

Speaker: And burn it to the ground! Yeah! I mean, he's like... This is some Game of Thrones level shit here. Game of Thrones?

Speaker: Yeah, it's like... And and and again, like... Everyone like that hates on Lux is like, Lux is horrified! like what What are we doing? Why are you doing that?

Speaker: Ahsoka springs into action using a makeshi makeshift staff and we see a bit of the original concept for the Mandalorians here as they're going all the way back to Empire Strikes Back development as Death Watch pretty quickly subdues her.

Speaker: Because I don't remember if we mentioned this before in the Mandalorian arc or not, Lauren, but you know going into into Star Wars lore mode. Oh boy. The Mandalorian Boba Fett.

Speaker: When originally conceived for the empire strikes back was just one of many Mandalorian super commandos who the backstory that Lucas had in mind is that they had been long time enemies of the Jedi and And Mandalorian armor was developed specifically to allow Mandalorians to be a match for and overpowered Jedi.

Speaker: Yes. and we we You're in a a cave mode.

Speaker: We've discussed that before. Yes. I think I'm familiar with that even before meeting y'all really. Okay. That's fair. That's fair. Um, But R2 recruits the repaired droids to help him save Ahsoka and Lux.

Speaker: And you gets Ahsoka's lightsabers back to her, because he's been carrying those inside him again. ah Again. and then Ahsoka explodes a jetpack in order to escape.

Speaker: Yep, and so they they make it back to the ship. They escape, and in the end, Lux leaves in the ship's escape pod, promising Ahsoka that they'll meet again.

Speaker: Now, looking at the behind-the-scenes information for this episode, it was originally meant to be the first of a four-part arc rather than a standalone episode.

Speaker: But the rest of the arc, ultimately they did make the other three, but it comes later on down the road. Yes. Yes. But, you know, you know i I'm just going to say it. We were talking about people who didn't like Lux.

Speaker: I actually kind of want to see him show up in the Mando timeline in like Ahsoka season two or... so i I like... Lux was... When he came out, was really interesting.

Speaker: And this episode made really interesting. Oh! I just had an idea. oh yeah? I had an idea. we we bring in Lux in live action, and live action Ahsoka is Rosario Dawson, right?

Speaker: Mm-hmm. Live action Lux, Charlie Cox.

Speaker: Oh, that's not a bad choice. And he would get to use his natural accent. but But more importantly, like... Accent...

Speaker: this is now the the yeah At this point, like, in the fandom, and you would know this, Lauren, shipping is a thing.

Speaker: I am aware of shipping. What? yeah I am familiar with this concept. That's crazy talk. Do you ship

Speaker: Lux and Ahsoka? From these two episodes that we have right now. No, no. I greatly prefer Yuri. I would never strip a shit. I would never ship a straight ship.

Speaker: So who would you ship with Ahsoka? And Daryl, do you not do any spoilers? I don't really have any Ahsoka ships right now. She needs to interact with more female characters on a more consistent basis.

Speaker: Fair. Fair.

Speaker: But then there are definitely Luxoka sippers. And there will be another arc that probably puts some people in that arc. But also kind of dissuaded some from as well.

Speaker: But that's in the future.

Speaker: But anyway, I did like this arc. It brought back Deathwats. Deathwats is a really unique concept. And it has so many characters that are going to be very important going on forward.

Speaker: Also, Mandalorian's cool as fuck. I mean, I like the droid parts. Those are pretty intense.

Speaker: I know you like the droid parts. Honestly, like, yeah, it's... Honestly, that did give a lot of your stuff. Like, Ahsoka with new characters. Like, she didn't interact with Death Watch before, she interacts with them now.

Speaker: And had an attitude to doing some cool, good rule-storing stuff. does solid So solid... Either way, it's still a solid episode, even though standalone.

Speaker: Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm... yeah I would never... make the mistake of saying that a standalone episode can't be a solid episode.

Speaker: I just, I had started to say that, um, like I said, this one was lighter than the other two.

Speaker: Oh, man was it's lighter in there. It's like that. But even then, it still has some darker moments. It's lighter in the same way that John Carpenter's Halloween is lighter than Midsommar.

Speaker: yeah Yeah, yes, yes. It's like, oh, we went from heavy stuff to like. Well, at least the good guys won.

Speaker: hmm. right Because again, like yeah I'll say that about like, when people like reflect on like, oh, it's Anakin getting, guess this is the cat girl queen. It's like, a lot of the slave empire is still there.

Speaker: Yeah, it is and they we They didn't win. They just saved one colony.

Speaker: yep And that's going to be absorbed into, spoiler alert, the greater galactic empire.

Speaker: Yep, and and that galactic empire, as we see, you know likes their slaves. So it's like, ah no one won that, at least in this arc, they won.

Speaker: Until they get worse. But that that's future seasons. Yes. But

Speaker: any any other final thoughts on these episodes? This this handful of episodes? I have my thoughts.

Speaker: who I'll go first. Yeah, yeah go you go first.

Speaker: I feel that this series of episodes should be the, like... I've had to deal with a lot of people saying, like, oh, Clone Wars is for kids. It's a kiddie show. one's gonna watch it It doesn't matter. It's like, no.

Speaker: Just because Star Wars... deals so so on on and and on so on so on so and so

Speaker: and so and so and on so so on on so on and hit people with like heavy topics and make them understand it slavery bad i yeaht like that's us adults would say like well yeah obviously but yeah like

Speaker: Just don't dismiss like a kid's show for a kid's show. right It can say so much more. It can say so much more about things because kids won't well question things.

Speaker: They'll be like, huh, that's bad. And think about it. Instead of like someone that's already been like fed some sort of dogma or idea.

Speaker: And be like, just never... That's why... If I ever have kids or i ever adopt kids, I'll sell Clone Wars and let them like learn things.

Speaker: Challenge their thought processes. That's what I'm saying. Because they again these are heavy episodes. These are heavy episodes. Yes.

Speaker: Yes, they are. Mm-hmm.

Speaker: You know, for for myself, i I do have thoughts about these episodes, but first, I'm going to go into something that is going to start out feeling like kind of a non sequitur, but I'm going to ask y'all just let me cook for a little bit because I'm going somewhere with it, all right?

Speaker: Well, yeah, Lauren Cook. Mm-hmm. Lauren Cook. Let me go down with this one. So, the way that this series uses Ahsoka comes off as a little bit odd sometimes, because So I think back to... I think it was a few season two episodes.

Speaker: said It happened... There were some Mandalorian episodes where Ahsoka was supposed to be teaching c some Mandalorian children some stuff. Yes. and the the episode went...

Speaker: ah completely away from Ahsoka for the vast majority of its runtime, focusing on these Mandalorian children instead. So it's like it was an Ahsoka episode, but it wasn't really about Ahsoka. It was about these other kids who who aren't otherwise relevant to the series for the most part.

Speaker: Best you would argue with me that, but we're not getting into that. And then the series kind of keeps doing this, where like in the Underwater episodes, Ahsoka is there, but the episodes aren't about Ahsoka, they're about the prince of the Underwater Kingdom. She just happens to be the character who is escorting him for the majority of those episodes.

Speaker: And then this happens more times, and it it's a little bit odd because these episodes that we've talked about today were dealing with Ahsoka's species in most of these episodes.

Speaker: And then but she is the only core main character in the last one, but none of these episodes are about Ahsoka.

Speaker: Most of the slavery episodes are about Anakin, and the final episode is about the Lex Bonteri. She is there, and she does some important things, but the characters who learn things in these episodes, the characters who are directly challenged...

Speaker: and deal with the core themes of the episodes, it's not Ahsoka. And it's not like there are zero episodes in this series that are about Ahsoka. The one with the the turtle mentor comes to mind. That one that one is definitely about her.

Speaker: But more often than not, This the series, it introduced her, but it's not really about her. And a moment in particular that comes to mind is whenever Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka, they go to the Force dimension.

Speaker: And Anakin... is is presented with a force vision of his mother. Obi-Wan is presented with a force vision of a woman that he's loved before.

Speaker: Ahsoka, she's presented with a force vision of herself because there's nobody in her past that the writers could pull from.

Speaker: Because the series isn't about her, even now. ah Even now, there still isn't anybody that they would really pull from to be important to her.

Speaker: and It's very strange to me that this keeps happening. And, you know, one of the reasons why i wanted to watch this series is because I wanted to see Ahsoka. I wanted to see her story.

Speaker: And so much of the time, even whenever she should be in the spotlight, this isn't happening. her story. She doesn't get to be the focal character, even in her own episodes, even in episodes about her species.

Speaker: And so it's just, it is a very strange direction that the series has chosen to operate with her, I guess you could say. Mm-hmm.

Speaker: Adaro, do you want to say something? I have something to say about that. Um, You go ahead and start cooking and I will throw ingredients in.

Speaker: Lauren, I agree a you entirely. I had similar when I first watched the series. and Remember, I had to watch it on inconsistent Cartoon Network.

Speaker: law Yes, of course.

Speaker: Or I had to be like, I have to stay till midnight to watch these episodes. And then suddenly, oh, now have to wake up at six o'clock to watch these episodes.

Speaker: And then like, oh, the episodes are now yeah on Netflix. And I have to wait 10 years for the here sort the end of the series. Yes, of course.

Speaker: But I agree with you. Ahsoka is ah selling point. And she is and amazing character. Even with your experience, you and I both agree she's an amazing character.

Speaker: So if I can interject here, i am not going to try to... Because I can see exactly where you're coming from and I can agree with a lot of that.

Speaker: At the same time, Ahsoka kind of served as the audience insert.

Speaker: To a degree. So as a result, things happened to and around her rather than then her being, i don't know, I know what I'm trying to say, but rather than Rather than her being the one acting on events around her and people around her, events and and other people happened to her.

Speaker: Yes. But there is theres a point to that. Unfortunately, it it comes to the fact that, like,

Speaker: and When people talk about like the prequels, I used to be a prequel hate her. I spent years hating the prequels. It took the Clone Wars to fix that.

Speaker: Because it fixed so many problems. And lot of those problems were fixed by Ahsoka.

Speaker: And trust me, and I know then that sounds like a whole lot lot of trust. Trust me. well and The Clone Wars does fix a lot of the problems that make the prequel trilogy mess.

Speaker: Well, and I think some... Nick and I i both are both, I think, trying to dance around a few of the points that have to do with...

Speaker: with your observation without spoiling things that you haven't gotten to yet. Because there's some really good... it's so We don't want to spoil that.

Speaker: We want we wanted to like trust... There's some amazing stuff. There's some really good development stuff with Ahsoka that right now, because there is this galactic war going on around her, like we said, things are happening...

Speaker: around her and to her rather than, than her being the active instigator of events. But she's important to Anakin's development.

Speaker: And part of that, part of that too, is that because of the nature of her character, she is being swept along beyond her control into these galactic events that,

Speaker: by this point in anakin and obi-wan's lives even though they haven't been dealing with a war until attack of the clones this is a tuesday for them whereas ahsoka has until the start of this is her life yeah she she's been in the temple learning And now she's being thrust into a current that is sweeping her along.

Speaker: And eventually she is going to have to learn to swim in that current and make her way to shore rather than being rather than being swept over a waterfall. That's a great metaphor.

Speaker: And... that yeah it's it's It's hard to describe... Without spoiling. You are you arere correct in that the Clone Wars is...

Speaker: Ahsoka's story.

Speaker: But it's also. Integrately. Completely. and Intertwined with. Obi-Wan and Anakin. Specifically Anakin.

Speaker: Story. And they have to. They have a flow. There's a flow. There's a set narrative. There's a set narrative where we have to get Anakin and Obi-Wan to the place they are at the beginning of Revenge of the Sith.

Speaker: Mm-hmm. And... But she has a place in making sure where they are. Now, and at this point, because you know other media with Ahsoka taking place after Clone Wars exists...

Speaker: You're not you are not sitting in the place that those of us who are watching it as it unfolded were where the moment she first stepped off of that ship in the movie.

Speaker: We were we were all like, where is he? No, we were all she's going to die. Yeah. you You actually have the spoiler version of the story going. And this goes to our audience as well.

Speaker: like Yes. we're We're not assuming you're no in a vacuum. yeah But there is... We're assuming is that if you're watching Clone Wars on Disney+, plus you are well aware that also on Disney+, plus in the same section, is a series called Ahsoka that takes place, you know 20 years later.

Speaker: 25 years later, something like that. And has not ended. Yeah. Spoiler. But... I understand your... can understand your...

Speaker: Would you call it for season, Lauren? don't know why. I think one thing here is that, you know, i think it's... You know, I definitely understand what y'all are saying in a general sense, but there's also the fact that part of it is...

Speaker: how Ahsoka is used in the episodes where she appears because there are many times where there will be Anakin episodes and they will focus on Anakin. On Anakin, yes. And, you know, in a similar vein, Anakin does not have full agency of where he goes or what he does. There are many times where he is sent on missions and he has to accomplish a task.

Speaker: And similarly, there are many instances where Obi-Wan is in the same boat. He's sent on a mission, and he has to accomplish a task, and the story focuses on Anakin, and the story focuses on Obi-Wan, and those stories are about them.

Speaker: But whenever Ahsoka is in a similar position, it is much more often that she gets pushed to the side.

Speaker: That she is not the central character of the narrative. That she is not about her. She is a...

Speaker: see Vector by which other characters are being used by. The only exceptions that I can really think of off the top of my head, the only episodes that are about Ahsoka that I can recall are, as I previously mentioned, the one with the Turtle Master.

Speaker: yeah And the one where ah she's in the forest and being hunted down and the Wookiees show Those two episodes are Ahsoka episodes. They are about her specifically. But otherwise, usually there's going to be another character that ends up taking the spotlight.

Speaker: What I am going to point out to you... and ask you to remember as we go along. And you're not wrong. You're not wrong. You're you're not wrong. What I'm going to ask you to remember, though, and point out that is common, a common factor of those two episodes, both of those episodes deal with Ahsoka on her own exploring and having to, for want of a term, work out work out

Speaker: what being a Jedi means. And there are stories coming up where she is more front and center and they do all center around that same sort of, of idea And leading to her drawing a conclusion and being any less vague takes us into spoiler territory.

Speaker: And although you just said a few minutes ago, you're not a person who minds spoilers. I'm not going to spoil this for you. all that did very There is a very important part of the arc that honestly,

Speaker: I know that you have a great deal of do you love care for Ahsoka. We all do. It's like, trust me. It may seem like like this so the show is kind of debating you, kind of kind of teasing you.

Speaker: And something else, too, just from a pregnant... When it hits... When the actual... and when when when the actual when things actually hit, you will appreciate some of those episodes that were like, oh, those are kind of light Ahsoka episodes. They'll all sort of like kick in back in your mind.

Speaker: And also from a pragmatic point of view, and they were very much slow rolling, getting the audience to like Ahsoka.

Speaker: the audience Yeah, I definitely got that sense. The audience hated her at first. they They did. It was like... The audience hated her at first, and and she was Filoni's baby.

Speaker: And he knew where he was going with it. So he's... From the very beginning. And he is also the <unk>ve I've mentioned it before. he is the He was chosen by Lucas himself as the guy.

Speaker: So he they he and they are definitely slow rolling the audience... ah the Getting the audience to... accept and like Ahsoka so when it does get to that point where she is the focus of stories that are quote unquote Ahsoka stories that it matters they and they hit and like and i agree I'm not gonna lie like some of those stories made me cry personally made me cry I see when her story reaches its climax and

Speaker: It does hit because you have seen how she has gone from a character who has been sidelined in her own story to being the main character of her story.

Speaker: Nice. and you know i I hope that y'all can see why I bring this up in this episode in particular. because i we We agree. like all All four of these episodes feel like they they should center her more than they really do. I feel for you.

Speaker: When I rewatched them, it was like, Yeah, this this is Ahsoka's people. She's me standing up and says she's in a slinky costume. She complains herself that she's being sidelined in one of these episodes. Yep. She's working with a character that she individually worked with and it's mostly to build him up, not her.

Speaker: Even though he have has a really badass action sequence where she mercs several Mandalorians and Yeah, like lacks the blast sequence. she She does still get to do cool stuff, and that is nice. But but it's not her story. And it's yeah what what you're what you're seeing, too, is... And yes, her being a passive character in stories that are nominally her episode's i At this point, with 2020 hindsight, I am giving Filoni and the rest of the writers full credit for knowing exactly what they were doing.

Speaker: yeah Because the stories that she's actually... where They give her. And today they are giving her. They're building to those. evening ah so what what i What I was going to say is... me What I was going to say is... I'm giving them credit for knowing what they were doing in that... Like I was saying, that stuff happens around her.

Speaker: All of that ends up shaping the decisions that she makes. when she is front and center in her episodes in the next season or so, in the following seasons, because it has been, oh this happened around me, that happened around me, and without giving, this is as specific as I'm going to be.

Speaker: all right what When her story reaches her climax, part of the crux of her story is her accepting her own agency.

Speaker: Mm-hmm. And it's... Whereas... It's the climax of, like, a lot of stuff that we've been talking about throughout the Clone Wars. Again, without being specific. There's a lot that we've talked about, but she is... Without speaking... Ahsoka is the Clone Wars...

Speaker: in terms of theming and ideas. It's everything we've talked about, but it you have to see it to the conclusion. it All right.

Speaker: And what what's kind of funny is just now I'm just now thinking that this last episode that we just talked about, A Friend in Need, where ah she is reacting to Lux like,

Speaker: oh, you sweet summer child, you're so naive. Well, he's naive. he's Yeah, that's what I'm saying. She's she's viewing Lux as being naive, where although she's not as naive as she was when she was first introduced, she still is in many ways.

Speaker: and so ja sauce so And that's why think... She defends him. She kills...

Speaker: is he killed four Mandalorians in a single sweep, but she's also just like trying to defend her friend. and it's it's There's a whole lot going on. ah yeah every We'll get there.

Speaker: we are right We'll get there. I'll trust y'all that we'll get there eventually. Nick, if we keep tap dancing, we're going to slip up and we're going to say something. Yeah, we are. it's like Just say that...

Speaker: Lauren... i I know that you have some foils with the Clone Wars, and trust me, there's some arcs that I don't want to revisit again. but in the end, Ahsoka is the key, and she is an amazing character, and she's important to Star Wars in understanding the whole thing.

Speaker: All right. I'll trust you on that. And trust me... if Trust me, there's some arcs that are like, no, we should not go through them.

Speaker: But we're going to go through them. We are. We're going to go through them all, Nick. Ahsoka is definitely part of the endgame, part of the actual story, and proof that he's actually important to Star Wars. Mm-hmm.

Speaker: Yep. But we can't go. if there's just Stop dancing, Nick. Nick, stop dancing. yeah Stop dancing.

Speaker: But next time around, we will be covering a storyline that, that whilst, well, I'm sure that you've noticed that more consistently as we've hit season four, Clone Wars is getting darker and heavier.

Speaker: Oh, yeah. No doubt. And more cereal. a And the next arc, while it's still, you know, more dark, while it's still a little more more heavy, ah there is there is a little bit of fun in it it because it's what I call the Kenobie.

Speaker: Obi-Wan Kenobi, James Bond storyline. Yes. as I like it. I have some problems with it oh there's there's problems with Oh, there's problems with almost every storyline in Clone Wars.

Speaker: and there's so but i do With almost every storyline in Star Wars. Mm-hmm. There is one thing that I do really love, and I'm going to definitely talk about that episode. but But it's some some cloak and dagger spy fun with Obi-Wan.

Speaker: Bounty hunters! and It's time for Face Off! Yes! john trevo with so so is John Travolta Cage?

Speaker: I don't remember who is who in that movie, but okay. That's the book that's the point. Somehow their bodies are the same. some that's like the That's the funniest part of that whole movie.

Speaker: And you'll see what we're talking about next time on Clone Watch. We hope you will join us and we will see you then. Wait, if am I switching faces with you or am I switching faces with Lauren?

Speaker: I don't know, Nick, but I don't want to hear any... After our talk during our game today of of your Netflix serial killer movie, I don't want to hear talk about you cutting one of our faces off and putting it on. It's disgusting. It's really disgusting.

Speaker: We'll see you next time, everybody. see you next time, everybody. Bye-bye. Bye. This has been Casual Nerdity. We hope you've enjoyed your time with us and look forward to having you back.