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Clone Watch - Episode 26
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Casual Nerdity takes on one of the darkest arcs in The Clone Wars. We break down the rise of Darth Maul, the fall of Mandalore, and the unforgettable showdown with Obi-Wan Kenobi. Crime syndicates, betrayal, and one of the series’ most brutal turning points...this arc has it all.
00:00 Introduction
04:22 Revival
29:20 Eminence
43:48 Shades of Reason
1:00:28 The Lawless
To follow along with your viewing, you can find the Clone Wars chronological viewing list at:
https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-clone-wars-chronological-episodeorder
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Transcript
00:00:10
Speaker
Casual Nerdity is a podcast celebrating and discussing pop culture that we love. Movies, TVs, comics, books, games, you name it. Ari missed to talk about the good, what worked, and yeah, sometimes what didn't.
00:00:22
Speaker
All with an eye towards building up, not tearing down. Thanks for joining us.
00:00:29
Speaker
Welcome back to Casual Nerdity, dear listener. Hope that you are doing great. I am Daryl. I'm Nick. I'm Lauren. And I'm back.
00:00:41
Speaker
Betsy's back. Yeah. Back again. Having Betsy back. Yeah, you're going to be stuck with me for a lot of like the coming arcs because they were in my demands. Oh my goodness. Yes.
00:00:54
Speaker
Yes. You'll be back on the next Clone Watch for sure. hmm. And so I can yell about my daughter. Yep. And then I get to yell about my boys. Yeah. And I get to yell about my daughter again.
00:01:06
Speaker
to There's much yelling to be had. Yes, there will be much, much yelling. but It's one of my favorite pastimes. You're going to have to do some voice training, some of those music class to make sure that you don't lose your voice.
00:01:24
Speaker
ah You'll just have to listen to me yell silently. But it's an audio medium. I'll use text-to-speech. yeah You'll use AI? Oh, no no, no, no. Oh, no, I've read everything. No, thank you. There's text-to-speech that isn't AI.
00:01:41
Speaker
There we go. I'll use Microsoft SAM. Yeah, that's it. Like we did in the old days. We'll use the old ways. That's how we got our rafflecopters off the ground back then.
00:01:52
Speaker
My ancient of text-to-speech technique. Yes, the ancient texts.
00:01:58
Speaker
But it is probably going to be a long show this time. And not just because because Betsy's here. But sorry, not Because we're going to have stuff to say. So let's cut to the chase. So just insert some clever verbiage here. about the next Mollarch, which is made up of Revival Season 5, Episode 1, Eminence Season 5, Episode 14, Shades of Reason Season 5, Episode 15, and The Lawless Season 5, Episode 16. Oh, and I guess before we dive in, ah considering that we went from Season 5, Episode 1 to Episode 14, I guess we should really quickly, as we try to do on Clone Watch, recap what we're doing for those tuning in for the first time.
00:02:44
Speaker
We are watching Clone Watts in the chronological order, which is the correct way, but it does have... No, it's not. From a certain point of view.
00:03:01
Speaker
Obi-Wan was a dirty, rotten liar. Oh, no. think it is. From a certain point of view. that whole certain point of view thing. Obi-Wan's a dirty, rotten liar.
00:03:11
Speaker
Yeah, he knows what he's about. Mm-hmm. and where are we it from the cro wars We are watching Clone Wars because our good friend Lauren has been a part of many Star Wars campaigns as of now and future ones where they are experiencing our many incredibly layered deep level level level references that they would normally just dial along to.
00:03:44
Speaker
Yes, yes. I'm getting some more of those now. It's true, you are. You're catching on. Yes, and you're even making some of them occasionally now. oh little One of us! One of us! It's happening. It's happening.
00:03:58
Speaker
So let's dive into the first episode, Revival, Season 5, Episode 1. But all and more before we get into it, like if you want to join us on this torturous journey, as Daryl says, we're going to have the Epistle Chronologues of Rewards in the description.
00:04:19
Speaker
Yes. Yep. So Revival Season 5, Episode 1, Maul and Savage forcibly recruit pirates to their cause. So this is the last episode aired out of chronological sequence.
00:04:33
Speaker
And I'd say i don't know why they didn't just put it in the quote unquote right place, but I know exactly why they didn't. This made for a stronger, more promotable season premiere, given how Season 4 ended.
00:04:48
Speaker
Yeah, this is not even a lore reason or even like a fact that they made these goes back into how the actual production materials. like This was designed entirely for that.
00:05:03
Speaker
Coming off of, and I'm going to say out to you, I learned of the previous Mario Brothers finale. yeah. Yeah. ah yeah or It just was good business sense to have this be the first episode.
00:05:19
Speaker
Also, just behind the scenes, this was a transition from the usual late Friday night episode so release for Clone Wars to an actual standard Saturday morning 7 to 8 a.m. time slot.
00:05:37
Speaker
Sort of. Kind of. It's complicated. It wasn't universal and complicated, but but it was it it was a change that a lot of people were conflicted about. And like there's multiple people blank, but where's the episode? you We get going with Maul and Savage attacking a space station and stealing a cargo ship.
00:06:04
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Savage is over at the safe like, look, I found the money. Did I do a good job, big bro? Are you proud of me, big bro? While I was waiting for you to answer, I made a sculpture of his holding hands out of the credit chips. This one over here is me, and this one with the frowny face is you.
00:06:17
Speaker
Meanwhile, Ball's looking at the complete opposite direction, and just his entire reaction is, just insert clip of Sam Witwer yelling Kenobi here, if you know, you know. Exactly. Exactly.
00:06:28
Speaker
If you know, you know. Spoilers.
00:06:33
Speaker
Yes. Maul just, he was so obsessed and meanwhile Savage just wants his brother to notice him. It's honestly kind of sad. And speaking of their dynamic, Savage notes that he wants there to be equality between the brothers, throwing away the ideology of the Sith, but Maul is dominant in this regard.
00:06:55
Speaker
has to pretend to be. Yes, yes. Absolutely. he He has to get in there and say like, no, there's a master and an apprentice and I'm the master and you're the apprentice. So suck it.
00:07:08
Speaker
And we're definitely not brothers. And I definitely don't love you a whole lot. I care about you a whole lot either. And I'm taller than my new wits legs.
00:07:17
Speaker
What? Okay. I'll be park is really short. It's fine. We respect a short King on this podcast. i know but if contain like yeah At this point he has his really tall wits legs.
00:07:31
Speaker
Obi-Wan Adi Gallia investigate, learning that they headed towards Florum. And what's on Florum? Pirates. Oh boy. Like, I just love how Obi hears that they mentioned the Surtur Sector, just that they mentioned it, and he immediately knows not just where they're going, but who they're going to see, because this might as well just fucking happen.
00:07:54
Speaker
Also, i I gotta do my part as the lore guy. Adi Gallia... is Jedi that's been featured several times in Star Wars Legends.
00:08:09
Speaker
Not necessarily in the Star Wars canon at to this point, but she was prominent in the early early Clone Wars and prequel era materials, including comics and video games. Specifically, the Jedi Starfighter and the books.
00:08:27
Speaker
and You know what feel about Jedi Apprentice. Mm-hmm. And this is in her first time dealing with a pirate on a lot on a rocky world. She encountered the the Legends character, Pirate Lord Nym.
00:08:43
Speaker
m Neat. Yes. Very interesting. And they they they have ah history ink that goes even into the Star Wars Galaxy's MMORPG. True facts.
00:08:56
Speaker
Indeed. And so Mal and Savage recruit a group of who else's, but Hondo's pirates out from under him. Yes. this is another episode, ah Stephanie you can't listen to.
00:09:11
Speaker
Yes. Well, the, the other night when I was about to sit down and start watching and taking notes, I was like, okay, you know, it, it, it's the, it's the mall arc, you know?
00:09:22
Speaker
So I, this shouldn't be a problem. And then i I had forgotten and I read the synopsis and I was like, no, I have to wait for her to go to bed. Oh no. At least if you want to be able to also sleep in that same bed for the next week.
00:09:36
Speaker
a Yes. She will give your spot to the cats. Oh, she, will oh, she will. She will. The, the negotiation though, it it feels a bit too easy. Perhaps there was some dark side mind manipulation going on over there.
00:09:56
Speaker
No, pirates are just greedy. It could be equal parts because, again, the the ability to manipulate minds is the is supposed to be work on the the the weak-minded. and Well, the greedy-minded would be weak-minded. So um says it there's ah there's a good way to see that both could be true.
00:10:17
Speaker
So are we saying mind tricks work on them or are we saying it's only money? Yes. No, that's only toward Aryans. no we're we're We're saying that both work on them.
00:10:28
Speaker
Maul recruits them and then he he has a little conversation with with our buddy Hondo. Three of your lieutenants have already sworn allegiance to me. Traitors.
00:10:41
Speaker
Scum!
00:10:44
Speaker
I'm so proud. But, so betrayed.
00:10:50
Speaker
There is a penalty for resistance. No!
00:11:02
Speaker
Let me warn You are not the first laser sword-wielding maniac I've had to deal with. And Hondo Onaka survives every time.
00:11:17
Speaker
We shall see.
00:11:21
Speaker
And then there's some Obi-Wan and Hondo banter that I was certain that Betsy would have some thoughts about. Oh no, that comes later. That comes later. I'm saving it all a specific point.
00:11:34
Speaker
you're You're saving it all all for once? Mm-hmm. Awesome. Awesome. Well then, Maul and his pirates attack Hondo's base. Oh boy.
00:11:48
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And like, can we talk about the choice to color code the blaster fight between Hondo and Maul's merry band of pirates? Like, Reef's are seeing the blue blaster bolts going the one way and the red going the other way. and like, you know, every major Star Wars battle ever. But now they've transplanted the same symbolism to a battle between two pirate groups that were part of the same pirate group, like, just five minutes earlier. And that served as the antagonist in previous episodes.
00:12:14
Speaker
It was just for funsies. I went back and looked at the episode Dooku captured when we first meet Hondo. And guess what color blaster bolts he and his crew had then? ah Damn, you know, can't decide if I want to use the poetry clip or the foreshadowing clip. ah Somebody flip a coin for me.
00:12:32
Speaker
Heads is poetry, tails is foreshadowing. Or what if you wifi and ask me to do it? Oh, actually I actually have coin. Okay, flip one for me. Go for it. ah Ponies, one side, ah star the other side.
00:12:48
Speaker
Okay, heads, tails. Flip it. Flip it.
00:12:53
Speaker
So it would be entirely fancy to choose what what those sides were. Was it ponies or star? so mr bar oh So now I have to go. Foreshadowing is a literary device. Yay! did it!
00:13:09
Speaker
See, i i I was about to say that I was going to have to go and in post- get the clip from friends when Joey and Chandler left Ross's baby on the bus.
00:13:22
Speaker
Oh my God. transit authority to yeah get it. And there's two babies and one's wearing ducks and the other is wearing clowns. And they're like, well, we'll, we'll flip for it.
00:13:36
Speaker
Okay. Heads. but You have to assign heads to something. ah But we are we are not Friends Watch. We are Clone Watch. This is true.
00:13:50
Speaker
That would be a completely different show. At this point, Maul and Obi-Wan begin to fight each other. And Maul is talking during combat, and that feels really off. That's Maul? We're looking at Maul fighting right now? That's ah it's a little bit weird.
00:14:11
Speaker
And while while that's going on, the... Savage overpowers Adi Gallia and just stabs her through the gut while she's laying on the ground.
00:14:23
Speaker
With his head. With the horns on his head specifically. but that's ah that's the That's the initial part of his fatality. it goes hey It goes head horns and then the lightsaber double tap.
00:14:38
Speaker
I just think it's significant that we all acknowledge that he literally headbutted her with his horns. Yes. oh yeah like but That's never been sewn. it's always been assumed that the horns were sort of... It's never been implied that those are like the actual combative part of Zabrak culture.
00:14:57
Speaker
But Zavaz is built different, quite literally, with witch magic. Yeah. Yes. But yeah, Pirate Lord Nim will remember this in Legends and name a whole mountain after Adialia. Because they were friends.
00:15:12
Speaker
oh And so will Obi-Wan, because he saw the death of the master of one of the long list of lovers who died in his arms. Hashtag justice for Siritachi. ah And then Hondo convinces his men to rejoin him while Obi-Wan fights the brothers.
00:15:31
Speaker
Where are the rest of your men? They are setting up an ambush. We can't use your help. Where is the other Jedi? She's... She's dead. She's... They are too powerful for even you.
00:15:45
Speaker
I am semi-speechless. I think they were... I shall draw the brothers away. Once that's done, blast the passageway closed. And leave you alone with the two crazies?
00:16:00
Speaker
Yeah, okay.
00:16:03
Speaker
I love that. Betsy? No, me too. That's an amazing moment. But i Betsy, the floor. it if if if we ever if we ever reveal like the behind the behind the scenes,
00:16:16
Speaker
The floor is hers. Yeah, this is where I originally sent a message about, know, me talking about Ernest having way in the context of Star Wars because that's what's about to happen. Oh boy. Here we go.
00:16:28
Speaker
It's green time. It's just because, you know, can I just take a sec to talk about this exchange between the two of them Too late, I'm already doing it. I love this. like For all that they've previously been on opposite sides, you can tell that there's a lot of mutual respect between Obi-Wan and Hondo, even if neither of them would ever admit it, including at Blaster Point.
00:16:47
Speaker
Because they wouldn't. Obi-Wan often makes a show of expressing his disgust at Hondo's uncivilized ways, But after their first meeting, I think Obi has kind of come to understand Hondo. Like he recognizes that Hondo was a ruthless pirate leader who was on all kinds of terrible shit. But I think he also recognizes that a measure of that is performative.
00:17:06
Speaker
And like underneath it, Hondo possesses like a personal sense of honor, which kind of serves as his own sort of moral framework. Like Hondo isn't a good guy. Like hell no, he's not a good guy at all. But I think he embodies a lot of the traits that describe a, and this is where i get into the lit analysis of it, a Hemingway code hero. If anyone remembers talking about that back in high school English class.
00:17:28
Speaker
Lycondo is courageous, which I'm specifically defining here as action in the face of fear, not any kind of, like, you know, moral quality necessarily. And he's also individualistic.
00:17:40
Speaker
He's a bit of a hedonist, but only in, quote-unquote, manly ways. He refuses to show emotion, Zed maintains, like, a detached sort of stoicism and cynicism about life. He is a man of action rather than theory, and he acts honorably according to his own idea of his own personal sense of honor, at least.
00:17:58
Speaker
despite you know the pain and chaos of life in a world where he knows he can never truly win. I think that part of Hondo resonates a bit with Obi-Wan because he can identify with some of those experiences, especially the parts about refraining from emotional expression as a defense mechanism and maintaining an internal sense of honor despite the pain of existence. Obi-Wan can look at Hondo and see which parts of him are pure performance and which parts are genuine, and it's the latter that allows him to understand.
00:18:24
Speaker
like I think it's those common traits also that allow Hondo to understand and respect his good friend Obi-Wan as well. Like, he'll rag on Obi for all of his Jedi sensibilities and knows that they'll never see eye to eye on a whole lot of things, but he can respect the person Obi-Wan is, even if he can't respect the majority of his choices.
00:18:41
Speaker
After all, Obi-Wan might live by a code, but it's the Jedi code, not a personal one. Hondo also respects and I think even admires Obi-Wan as a warrior too. Like, you can hear it in this clip how surprised he is that Obi-Wan couldn't single-handedly defeat Maul and Savage because usually he would bet on Obi-Wan to win every time.
00:18:58
Speaker
What sticks out to me too is I don't think Hondo's admiration stems from just the typical... Jedi powers plus laser sword equals good fighter, but rather from his own experiences seeing Obi-Wan fight.
00:19:09
Speaker
Like, he didn't say he couldn't believe a Jedi couldn't take the brothers, he was surprised about Obi-Wan specifically. So much so that he actually broke K-fabe and expressed genuine concern.
00:19:20
Speaker
While his men were standing right there, by the way. he even almost tries to stop Obi-Wan from sacrificing himself, but, you know, then the mask comes back up at the last minute and the self-preservation instant kicks back in.
00:19:31
Speaker
Though how much of that is genuine and how push that is performance is also anyone's guess. Also, personally, I can't help but wonder if this might have been the moment when Hondo finally admitted to himself that the good friend thing had become way too genuine to just be a bit anymore.
00:19:46
Speaker
Betsy, that's actually beautiful. Beautiful. fair it is And i completely, believe completely, especially your, your, your, your sort of a Hemingway coded, coded hero, hero response. Can you tell I was an English major for a hot minute? Nah, not at all.
00:20:03
Speaker
Right. Who would have guessed? Who would have guessed? I swear I'm normal about media. As we all are. We all? Because you isn't it being totally normal about media to get in front of microphones and record our thoughts about the media and put it out there for tens of people to listen to? I mean, I'm the kind of person where I remember in high school, me and my friends went to a movie. I don't even remember which movie it was. But we, in unison, after seeing a raven appear on screen, like two of us said, Raven of Death! And then we yelled, Motif! Out loud, really loud. Because we're those kind of people. Yeah. And we were delighted. We were having the best time. Yes, we verbatim said the word motif. I'm just like this. My friends and I didn't do that in the theater, but two of us were film majors when we got to college. We knew each other since high school. And we would all sit around on Saturday nights with movies of various quality running And sit there and do everything from place penny bets on the various tropes that were occurring and would occur next to actually just sitting there and just having full on you know discussions that took longer than the movies themselves to have about the movies. And is it any wonder is it any wonder that I enjoy the movie Defenders? Yeah.
00:21:25
Speaker
right? Like, I've told you that it takes about two hours per episode for this podcast. On the inverse, which has been shown as a study, like, I used to show my friends terrible movies because they had some rather terrible taste in movies.
00:21:40
Speaker
Used to? Used Yeah, what is this used to of which you speak? It's been a while since we've done so. Nick, it's been barely over a year.
00:21:51
Speaker
That's not enough time for me to mentally recover. Since the last time we were in your house watching Neil Breen. I'm still scarred from that dance break. And the tiger wife. so Robert still has to be covered.
00:22:06
Speaker
I was there. You were there, Lauren. Lauren was there for the dance break and the tiger wife and everything else. Yeah. Nick, you need to go sit in the corner and think about what you've done. With the rats.
00:22:18
Speaker
And the squirrels. All of the rodents. and this worlds all of the rodents ah I don't have the squirrel clip from how we roll loaded up. Oh, no. Hang You can keep that one just like as a matter.
00:22:33
Speaker
Well, yeah ah that's how the sound board works. i wish it I wish it did, because if it did, then i would be ready at a moment's notice, regardless of the show. Squirrel. For for that.
00:22:48
Speaker
Beautiful. Good job, Daryl. I'm proud of you. ah Anyways. Anyway, Obi-Wan gets the upper hand and the Sith flee.
00:23:01
Speaker
But it's also really cool. We get to see Obi-Wan dual wielding lightsabers and taking on a Sith Lord and an overpowered force wielder like Savaz and winning.
00:23:19
Speaker
Yep, he does in fact give Savage the Kenobi Special TMCR and chops off his arm. And I want everyone to know that I did in fact type out the TMCR in the notes. Yes, yes, yes, she did. I went out of my way to type it out. And Mala's quite distressed about this.
00:23:33
Speaker
They beat Hondo's pirates to their ship, the the Sith do, and they take off, but the pirates shoot down the ship. We're missing the best moment of the entire... I'm surprised we didn't didn't put this in in the clips.
00:23:46
Speaker
Maul is confronted by by Hondo and his regrouped pirates, and and he calls them out on their insolence. We are pirates. We don't even know what that means. Yes. Beautiful.
00:23:59
Speaker
And they're firing on him. And that's when Maul gets shot in hit in his robot legs, which is proves that they are just made of witch magic. That's when they beat pirate Hondo's pirates to the ship, take off. The pirates shoot down the ship, but the brothers escape in, well, in escape pod, because that's what you do.
00:24:20
Speaker
yep And this is like the 4th or 5th ship to crash on Florib. i think that's There's gotta be a whole ship graveyard over there. RPG story hook.
00:24:33
Speaker
yep ooh And then Obi-Wan Hondo pull up to the crash site on his speeder bike built for two.
00:24:39
Speaker
Well, Kenobi, let's get out there and see what riches have fallen from the sky for me and you.
00:24:49
Speaker
Shall we? Very well. There's no sign of those two, boss. Well, if the condition of these goods is any indication, your friends have been vaporized.
00:25:04
Speaker
I wouldn't be so sure. I cut one of them in half once and he survived. Well, isn't that interesting? I just love those little exchanges. love them so much. yeah I'll leave you wi to e face the two psychos alone?
00:25:20
Speaker
Okay. is this apparently again like Considering that he's pulling out like mounds of treasure, it's like, well, I guess they blew up.
00:25:34
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Don't investigate the treasure Obi-Wan because there's none for you. I just want everyone to know that they were in fact riding a two-seater speeder bike. In this scene, it's very important to me that everyone knows that that is literally what they were riding.
00:25:49
Speaker
Yep. That Hondo specifically had for some reason. They are besties and I would not to be surprised if Hondo has a has had made a friendship race for Obi-Wan. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
00:26:03
Speaker
Back on Coruscant, the Jedi meet with Chancellor Palpatine, who declares the matter's closed. Very heavily. He's like, very succinctly. Done.
00:26:15
Speaker
Done. that That mall guy. Done. not Nothing to see here. Move along. As you were. There's a clone war going on. Let's continue with the clone wars.
00:26:27
Speaker
Situation normal. Everything's fine. We're all fine here. How are you? Well, it's funny we should ask, how are you? Because Obi-Wan's not sure.
00:26:38
Speaker
But Yoda says that, well, if Maul survived, he'll make his presence known sooner or later, and we can deal with him then. And i love how everyone, like, after giving his report and, like, warning about Maul possibly building his own army slash crime syndicate, everyone just kind of shakes their head and tells Obi-Wan to stop being such a drama queen about his crazy ex because it's not their problem Maul has an eternal heat motor for him, despite no longer having a dick because Obi-Wan kind of cut it off along with the rest of his lower body. Bisexual will do that to you.
00:27:08
Speaker
But, you know, surely this will have no future consequences for anyone whatsoever. Surely. Foreshadowing is a literary device. It's fine. We close the scene on an ominous shot of Palpatine smirking.
00:27:23
Speaker
Given that final conversation with Yoda... Was this episode really out of sequence at the start of the season? Isn't it just as reasonable that Maul and Savage have been just lurking in the back? Even as we go along into these next episodes, there's plenty of time for them to have been lurking around in the background during the Onderon, Youngling, and D-Squad arcs.
00:27:50
Speaker
No, I would agree. Of the out of chronological breaks, which we have broken down multiple times, this is the least egregious. It has the least reason, but it it's the least egregious.
00:28:04
Speaker
But yeah at at the same time, moving it quote unquote officially to where it sits in the chronological listing makes it a lot easier to rewatch in story arc bundles, which is awfully convenient for us.
00:28:19
Speaker
there there There is also the factor that where we pick up with them, well, where where we left them off in this episode, they're going to be floating about in space in an escape pod. And where we pick up with them, they are exactly there. So lurking around in the shadows would just mean floating in space for that entire period of time. Yeah. Well, floating space. We're like, you're little busy after that. and Yeah, floating in space. And you it it takes more than 22 minutes for them to go through all of the motions that they go through next.
00:28:53
Speaker
like They get pretty busy and they do a lot of things and go a lot of places and see a lot of people. Yeah, you could argue. There's a lot of argument about that. But I would say that unlike the previous ones was like, well, there's entire sequences where it's like, this doesn't make sense without that episode taking place beforehand.
00:29:12
Speaker
This one is like, okay, you could you could pick her two was here. and yep and that takes us then into that next episode eminence season 5 episode 14 and i know nick hates how this is worded but this is pulled directly from disney plus but yeah to make a reference with the death watch that targets let me let me start that over again the siths ally with the death watch that targets obi-wan kenobi It should be the Sith aligned with the deaf wats.
00:29:44
Speaker
Sorry for being a grammar imperial. It's okay. I had a joke that I was going to make that I deleted, but I can put it back in now. Hold on. Keep reading.
00:29:55
Speaker
The escape pod is drifting in space and it's found by Death Watch in a scene that is very admittedly modeled on the opening of Aliens, which once again, Ripley was floating out there for 57 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:30:14
Speaker
So it's nothing for Maul and Savage to be floating for, you know, of a few weeks or a couple of months. Because while, yes, three story arcs happened, remember, the entirety of the Clone Wars is only in the span of three years. yes Either way, no one's going to be back for anyone's 11th birthday.
00:30:38
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, I put my joke back in. Yeah, go get We get full frontal on the Deathwash logo when Vizsla slices his way in. Or Kirstad for the Karens listening. Sorry, did I say Karens? I meant Kare-in. Yes. you Yeah, she's not listening.
00:30:53
Speaker
She's not listening to us. See, I made my own grammar joke. She's not listening to us. I'll see myself out. No, no, no, no. Get back here. You have more monologues.
00:31:08
Speaker
but That's good. that's good yeah and Extra high five from me whenever you set up again. But guess who's back? Back again. Duster is back.
00:31:21
Speaker
it's It's still in the hands of the Mandalorians. Yes, that's the only place we've ever seen it so far. yeah So far. So far. So far. so fun Pre-Vizsla questions Maul. He seems pretty knowledgeable about the Sith, like knowing about the rule of two and all of that. And when he learns that Maul has the hates as opposed to the hots for Kenobi, orders his droids to patch them up.
00:31:49
Speaker
Yeah, he can have both. Yes, and he notes, an enemy of the Jedi is a friend of mine. At which point, they give ball some new legs.
00:32:01
Speaker
yeah they're I this. I really don't. They're pretty normal looking legs this time. That said, as Maul wakes up, he ah he's he'ss pretty violent initially, but they start keeping Maul line by threatening Savage.
00:32:17
Speaker
You're not Jedi. So what are you?
00:32:26
Speaker
Okay, so really quick, can we talk for sec about Maul being ready to throw down and only holding himself because Bo-Katan pointed a at Savage?
00:32:45
Speaker
okay so really quick can we talk for a sec about mall being ready to throw down and only holding himself back because boka to pointed at a blaster at sava Like, the dude made such a big performance in the last episode of like, I'm your master, not your brother. Focus on the mission, which is also Kenobi. I am feigning so much indifference right now to he's the only reason I haven't locked myself across this bed bed to rip your throat up with my teeth. And you you if you even touch him, I will eat your entire right arm as a post-surgery snack.
00:33:13
Speaker
And you know, that's actually a like real threat coming from someone who did spend a long time in a cave eating people. Which I feel like not enough people talk about, by the way. They were eating people in that cave. Yes. Also, he is a weird scorpion spider thing as well. as Yeah, but him and Morley the snake were eating people in the cave. They sure were. Eating people. yeah Cannibalism. Cannibalism.
00:33:35
Speaker
Just no one talks about that enough. I do want to know more about Morley. What were their relationships like? Were they friends? Roommates? Were they roommates? Oh my God, they were roommates.
00:33:48
Speaker
But anyway, sorry, that got track. Like there's just so much to say about their dynamic. Like Mal grew up learning that vulnerability was weakness and weakness meant death. A lesson instilled in the most harsh, painful way anyone could possibly manage. Like every relationship, every hope, every emotion that wasn't anger resulted in punishment.
00:34:05
Speaker
Usually of the electrocution variety. And he learned to do everything in his power to bury those parts of himself as deeply as possible where no one, i.e. Palpatine, could ever find them. He never succeeded, just his use of we in Phantom Menace, I think, speaks to that when they talk about now we will reveal ourselves to the Sith. He still thinks of himself as like part of this bigger thing and is including himself in the equation.
00:34:28
Speaker
ah But throughout all his interactions with Savage, he's done everything he can to just still keep that detached facade in place. It's only now when Savage's still unconscious body is threatened directly that Maul actually lets the care for his brother show at the surface, even going so far as to respond to Vizla's quip with the assertion that he and Savage are brothers. Yeah.
00:34:47
Speaker
And I think that's only it now because Savage is unconscious when this happens. I think Maul is doing what a lot of traumatized people do in this type of situation, where he's trying to protect Savage from experiencing the same pain and suffering that he felt.
00:35:01
Speaker
by modeling how it was that he, as in Mal, survived. Like, cool disinterest with simmering anger underneath never got Mal electrocuted, but sentimentality did. And nothing oozes sentimentality like Savage's open display's brotherly affection.
00:35:15
Speaker
Mal knows what that kind of behavior earns. He still remembers the pain, and I think he's going out of his way to rebuff Savage's attempts at genuine connection out of his own sense of love and care, and most importantly, like, a paternal responsibility.
00:35:27
Speaker
Like, Maul couldn't protect himself, but he can protect his brother. Even if that means he needs to protect Savage from knowing how much his brother really cares. Like, to Maul, safety doesn't come from connection or belonging.
00:35:39
Speaker
It comes from power. And I think that is what he wants to try and give Savage the only way he knows how to give it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. yes, very true. Ultimately, the the two, they find that they have a mutual enemy in Kenobi, and Maul says that he's willing to help, at which point he talks in private to his brother, saying, they possess honor, another weakness.
00:36:05
Speaker
Dun, dun, dun. And so then we after after they've recovered a bit, then they actually, you Maul actually has a sit down with Vizsla.
00:36:22
Speaker
Your mark. The sign of Clan Vizsla. I am Pre Vizsla. We are the Death Watch. Descendants of the true warrior faith all Mandalorians once knew.
00:36:34
Speaker
Now my people are living in exile because we will not abandon our heritage. Our people were warriors. Strong. Feared. Now they're ruled by the new Mandalorians who think that being a pacifist is a good thing.
00:36:49
Speaker
They've given away our honor and tradition for peace. Duchess Satine and her corrupt leadership are crushing our souls, destroying our identity.
00:37:00
Speaker
That is our struggle. If they are weak, why do you wait? The Duchess has powerful allies, including your Jedi friend Kenobi.
00:37:13
Speaker
He is also responsible for our exile. Perhaps fortune brought us together. It is the will of the Force. We can help you reclaim Mandalore.
00:37:27
Speaker
And punish Kenobi for his trespasses. We allied ourselves with Sith before. Count Dooku, he betrayed us. Sith are no better than Jedi.
00:37:38
Speaker
They claim to be powerful, but we put these two back together after the Jedi gutted them. Doubt will only lead to failure. Hold!
00:37:51
Speaker
Our combined strength will be rewarded. Mandalore will be yours, and Kanobi, this Sith-Protender Dooku, and all our enemies.
00:38:07
Speaker
I'm sure that you know, Betsy might have some some things to say along with me here, but how's about we talk about Pre Vizsla and his dog whistles about heritage and legacy being taken away in favor of? Dog whistles? Those are some pretty, they're pretty loud. Ear horns. Yeah, they are more like ear horns.
00:38:30
Speaker
But they all of that being taken away in favor of, you know, not constantly fighting and otherwise partaking in violence. yeah It sure would be nice to say that we don't hear people talking like this in the real world, especially from the people who are ostensibly leading our country. But hey ah yeah, and, you know, lets you know and everything's fine.
00:38:53
Speaker
Yeah, just ignore how, you know, he was basically like, you know, verbatim reading some of Ur-fascism there too. Like, you know, if they're so weak, why don't you take over? Well, they have power for allies. We're also powerful, but they're also also very powerful, but also weak.
00:39:07
Speaker
These have to coexist. Yeah, it's our it's our heritage. It's our heritage. Not hate, heritage. What is your heritage exactly? Please enlighten us.
00:39:18
Speaker
Yes. And also, you despite despair that despite Mal choking her out, Bo-Katan seems pretty pleased with how that meeting went after mall leaves.
00:39:32
Speaker
And so does Vizsla. Maybe they were just all very impressed at Maul's mic drop where he said fall right when he dropped her. Oh, yeah. yeah there really There is a part of the lore in that this isn't the first time the Sith have abused and used the Mandalorians.
00:39:52
Speaker
It sure is not. wait how much of that is canon still? Maul then, he he starts late laying out, not all at once, but he starts going through a few steps of getting things set up here. First, he suggests that Death Watch ally with Black Sun.
00:40:12
Speaker
As you do. and Yeah, as you do. Casually. So they go to black they go to Black Sun, and Black Sun... On Luthabar. Black Sun denies Maul's request. No, it's not a request. It's a it's a demand. It's a demand. for an For an army and threatens to kill the group.
00:40:33
Speaker
at At which point, in just a sick maneuver, Savage tosses his lightsaber. decapitating the entire Black Sun Council that's sitting around the conference table.
00:40:45
Speaker
i was going to say literally and figuratively, just every single one of those Vigos lost their heads. Yep. Yep. casualdual It's fine. At that point, the Pikes show up and say like, um can can can we play?
00:40:59
Speaker
We want in. Can we join your club? This is the first time the Pikes Syndicate has shown up in canon. They become much more prominent in later stories. All right. I thought they showed up in the movie. ah They showed up in the movie, but they weren't identified as a syndicate or the Pykes.
00:41:18
Speaker
Fair. So then they go to Nalhutta to press the Hutt cartels into service. And after fighting some recurring bounty hunters, they head to Tatooine to take on Jabba and the Hutts give in.
00:41:34
Speaker
Yeah, but i just want everyone know that I'm pretty sure in that one scene I got named Bounty Hunter Bingo. Oh yeah yeah, it's fun. Notably... a foxtu fiveque Yes, yes. Notably, a Sugi, one of the Hutt's mercenaries and a member of the Bro's species, has some particularly cool action. Also, the Hat Shield guy, he's also here again. Embo!
00:41:58
Speaker
With his canine companion! And... And Anuba! And... Spoilers. But not really, because it's in the trailer, and Bo is showing up in The Mandalorian and Grogu, coming to a theater near you in a couple of months.
00:42:15
Speaker
Neat. Woo! Which we're going to be able to watch together, because I'm going to watch it with you guys. all right Lauren, I'm so glad you called out Sugi because I also got very excited when I saw Sugi. Oh, Sugi's cool. Sugi's underrated.
00:42:29
Speaker
i feel like they gave her a particularly notable presence in the combat scene just because she's the same species. Honestly, that's fair. oh When you read Aftermath, you get to learn about her niece. Oh boy. yeah It's actually really cool.
00:42:43
Speaker
And she shows up in several ah images in the RPG books, actually. hurt Her niece and her, which is really fun. It's like there's a little story arc going on there. Yeah. Oh, actually, Lauren, you know my character in Robert's game, Ashes of an Empire? Yeah. Iridonian Zabrak? Yeah, that's what she looks like, basically. Oh, okay, cool.
00:43:02
Speaker
Yeah, Iridonian Zabrak. Mm-hmm. So Maul tells Vizsla that the plan is to take Mandalore and with Vizsla in charge, the Mandalorians will provide protection for Maul's new crime syndicate.
00:43:17
Speaker
When they have a moment alone, Vizsla tells Bo-Katan that they're going to take Mandalore and kill Maul and Savage. ah Curse you and your sudden but inevitable betrayal. Oh no, betrayal. Oh man, that would have been a good clip.
00:43:34
Speaker
How will the brothers be able to defeat this masterful deceit? I guess we will find out. And where we'll probably find out is in the next episode, Shades of Reason, Season 5, Episode 15, the Sith and Death Watch launch an attack on Mandalore. Oh, they did the grammar right.
00:43:57
Speaker
yeah Yes, they did the grammar right. So I'm just going to say here that Maul has a pretty decent plan for taking over Mandalore.
00:44:11
Speaker
We've identified them at these locations. However, as I've said before, if we try to take Mandalore by force, our people will turn against us. I will use my army of crime lords to attack different targets across Sundari and sow chaos to undermine the Duchess's rule.
00:44:33
Speaker
Our gangsters will make her look too weak to maintain control. Then you and your Death Watch will capture and arrest us bringing order where Satine's weak government could not.
00:44:46
Speaker
We'll be saviors. Exactly. good plan. Indeed. I'll prepare the troops.
00:44:55
Speaker
Now, of course, Vizsla is still planning to betray the Sith, but they're not dumb, and they're actually expecting that. But Maul explains to Savage that they can't rule Mandalore openly without attracting the Jedi, which kind of undermines this whole idea of making Mandalore their base of operations for this whole new crime syndicate that he's put together and the Mandalorians being their muscle.
00:45:26
Speaker
Well, I mean, the whole reason it works is because Mandalore is a neutral system. So like, you know, legally the Republic can't get involved and do anything. Exactly. That's what they're banking on. As long as that stays.
00:45:38
Speaker
Yeah. So Vizsla publicly challenges Satine, offering a solution to the Syndicate's attacks.
00:45:49
Speaker
Yes, yes. As the Syndicates are attacking, Satine makes a speech and then Death Watch interrupts to take over. Yep, and Death Watch stops. Heavy on the air quotes.
00:46:02
Speaker
Could you hear those air quotes? you The syndicates gaining public support. Yes, yes. Even even at the start, Vizsla says, make sure to pawn a good show.
00:46:15
Speaker
yeah And during during this particular show, we have Vizsla versus Savage in a saber battle, which even if it's fake, it's still a pretty cool moment.
00:46:28
Speaker
oh ah the The whole montage going on here is for a show, it is quite the spectacle. Mm-hmm. So, like, literally the way I was spending that whole montage, like, vibrating in place, because just, honestly, it's kind of funny just the way things are. Maul and Savage are currently playing the role of CIA?
00:46:50
Speaker
Sith-IA? Is that too cringe? No, no, you're good. Okay. Though I guess that makes sense since Vizsla kind of lost his FBI privileges after his last outing. i It's just they're literally doing it by the numbers.
00:47:03
Speaker
And in the old Republic era of legends, but that hasn't been contradicted yet. Sif intelligence and spies were behind many events in galactic history, including manipulating the Mandalorians and their warrior culture to cause conflict, chaos, even turning their attention against the Jedi. So this is one of those moments where time is a flat circle or.
00:47:26
Speaker
Again, it's like poetry. Yep. yep So Pre Vizsla takes the position of prime minister for himself with the public's approval and turns on Maul, wanting him to be his muscle and parades him up in front of the crowds. yeah The bros get imprisoned, but Maul notes, we will find allies here.
00:47:53
Speaker
And they very easily escape their cell. This is a moment where the really cool Mandalorian glass design aesthetic really doesn't work in their favor.
00:48:06
Speaker
yeah It doesn't work in their favor. This is also why in real life you would like isolate your political prisoners as much as possible so they can't talk to each other. Yeah, you don't put them in the same cell.
00:48:18
Speaker
You don't put them in the same cell block. Yeah. But though what I'm saying is you don't put them in the same cell and allowing one of them to just, you know, make a great big supernatural burst of pressure and break the glass that forms the walls. I mean, give some credence to what Previzilus was talking about. Like, uh,
00:48:47
Speaker
in the In the old Mandalorian times, they would have would' have locked him up in something much more secure. Also, can I just say that I think Vizsla's being a little short-sighted because in locking them up, it's like, ah you know, those were the guys that were keeping Black Sun and the Pyke Syndicate and the Hutts on your side too, right? Throw that out there.
00:49:06
Speaker
Fortunately, he didn't have to worry about that in the long term, but... But after they get out of their cell, Maul and Savage recruit Satine's prison neighbor, Almec.
00:49:19
Speaker
Yep. They easily freely. After have a talk with Satine, it's like, Almec's almost as corrupt as you. And they're right. And she's like, no, damn it. I should have told them that.
00:49:31
Speaker
ah You know, that when Maul, when she says that and Maul says to her, thank you for your cooperation, I immediately flashed to Black Widow in the Avengers movie. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Where she you know manipulates Loki into telling her everything. she you know He thinks that she's all weepy. and oh so that's your plan.
00:49:54
Speaker
you seem separate It's the exact inverse. It sees the guys that he's interrogating at the beginning of Avengers. This guy's giving me everything? Yeah. and yeah they They very easily free Albeck with a big force push.
00:50:10
Speaker
Yeah, the these Mandalorian cells are no match for a good force push. It's about the aesthetic. Unlike the good old days of the Old Republic.
00:50:21
Speaker
the The Old Republic of Mandalorian cells. They would have been able to handle this. Yeah. yeah that so They weren't as aesthetic. So all then Malvin plans to... But Olmec proposes the plan.
00:50:37
Speaker
Yeah. Olmec's a unique character that i do kind of like. He's like, oh wait, wait dead well if you don't know Mandalorian history 101...
00:50:48
Speaker
if you tell him... And I kind of have it here. Yomal plans to challenge Vizsla to personal combat, and Almec is then the one to tell him that, you know, if you win, according to ancient Mandalorian tradition, Death Watch is going to be honor-bound to follow you.
00:51:05
Speaker
You know, in another universe, Almec is one of those guys that's like just a little too interested in the Roman Empire in World War II history. Oh, so you mean like just a third of guys? Yeah.
00:51:17
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, basically. Question, though. When Almec greets, say, Satine or whoever, does he say, m'lady?
00:51:29
Speaker
Oh, no. Well, he'd say it in Mandoa. Yeah. Only Karen Travis were writing it. True. It would have to be her conlang that's not even a really good conlang Mandoa.
00:51:41
Speaker
And he'd mispronunciate it because he'd be speaking it as it would be modernly spelled instead of like the actual pronunciation. yeah No, no, no, because that's where she gets into her whole thing about Concordian dialects.
00:51:55
Speaker
Oh, you're right. Because I remember that. Do you remember that? I remember that. Yeah. i remember that bullshit. I was there. Unfortunately, i wish I wasn't.
00:52:07
Speaker
So yeah, at this point, we have some Maul versus Vizsla, and Vizsla is using every tool and weapon to keep up with Maul. Honestly, it's a little bit Batman-coded to a degree.
00:52:18
Speaker
But it is sort of the proof that it to quote, to to sort of acknowledge a meme from... No, to invoke a meme from Invincible. It's like, look at how much they have to do to match the power of a Sith Lord.
00:52:35
Speaker
a All that for a drop of blood. yeah laly Ultimately, he does manage to disarm Maul, but Maul quickly disarms Vizsla in kind. Much to Karen Travis's dismay.
00:52:48
Speaker
yeah it very yeah this This whole arc is ah is like is is her worst nightmare. She's crying and and just seething in a corner right now. I love it. It is a very cool Sith versus Mandalorian with Darksaber fight, but ultimately... Maul wins and decapitates Vizsla. We're getting a lot of decapitations in this storyline.
00:53:12
Speaker
And Vizsla does live up to the vibe. As much as he's not as truly honorable of a leader as he intends to be, when it comes to this, he does take the like only the strongest lead and he accepts that decapitation like an honorable warrior.
00:53:35
Speaker
Yep. Mm-hmm. And like, I'm going to be honest, I know fuck all about like sword fighting and combat and whatever. So this just made kind of like spitballing what I was seeing. But I feel like this fight had a level of brutality to it that I don't recall seeing before on this show, or at least not seeing like this much of. Like so much of what we see is range combat with like blasters and that maintains the level of distance or it's lightsaber batters.
00:54:00
Speaker
lightsaber battles, but it features at least one Jedi. Because, you know, even Vader can himself has a level of refinement to his movements, or at least, you know, if that's what I see. But this, though, like, between Maul and Vizsla, it was just an all-out brawl. And I feel like it was designed to look as vicious and brutal as possible.
00:54:17
Speaker
Like, I think it's the way the team just put so much effort into animating the blows connecting so heavily and making each one audible. Not with, like, you know, the super Sentai swooshy, like, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh sound effects, but, like, what actually sounded like flesh connecting. and Or even, like, the flamethrower sounds having that audible whoosh and the... Yeah, yeah.
00:54:38
Speaker
Yeah, and like there's even a few moments like there's this one where we see like spittle and possibly a tooth fly out of Vizzle's mouth when he gets kneed in the face that someone went out of their way to put in there because they had to literally animate that happening.
00:54:53
Speaker
and the scar that Baal will retain throughout the the rest of this arc on his cheek from the blade. Yeah, it's like I think this whole fight scene just really sells what kind of people Maul and Vizsla are, that like no level of brutality is too far because it's not just like a show of strength or power, but of honor and earning the right to lead by earning the right to live. Mm-hmm. Like, I don't think even the choice of how... I think even the choice of how to censor the final blow says a lot because, you know, like, kid shows that can't just show full-on decapitation on screen. But instead of, like, you know, having it just out of frame or cutting to black or something like that, they just barely cover it by, like, pulling the camera back and putting Bo-Katan in frame so that, like,
00:55:35
Speaker
As the camera pans, just the exact moment the blade falls, it's hidden behind her and it's like just out of focus enough so that no one could actually use Cartoon Network of airing an execution on TV. But that is pretty much what Cartoon Network just did, airing an execution on TV.
00:55:50
Speaker
And again, there is... Two episodes in a row. Yep. Yeah. But there's also a... This also goes back to the first time that's ever happened and when there was incredibly controversial for like Star Wars as a whole...
00:56:05
Speaker
in episode three, which we'll get to, but it is sort of like Star Wars, this is Star Wars starting to like, there's a line that Star Wars butts up against. Yeah, but even then, that was still where it was like, you know, slightly off screen, where everything was shot from above, so you didn't see it. This one, it was like all but the exact moment was right there, out in the open. We did see the, see the, unlike this one, we did we didn't see the head roll in episode three. Yeah, what we saw afterwards. we I'm not talking about like, we didn't see the actual like, lightsabers go, head disconnects.
00:56:40
Speaker
This one, we like, all but the exact moment that the blade came down, we saw everything. But is like that is where like there is like a... start When people say, like how stark Star Wars can get, there that's like where they're putting up against like the terms of the violence. like I think it's interesting because this also aired before the movie came out.
00:57:00
Speaker
Or no, it didn't. Sorry, I made that up in my brain. No, it came after it. Yeah. And you like you said, and we say quite often... when we're when we're doing Clone Watch. Remember folks, this is a kids show. A kids show! You know, for kids!
00:57:18
Speaker
But like I think that's the most on-screen fight. Wars for kids! But the the fight over, we now get...
00:57:29
Speaker
claim this sword and my rightful place as leader of Death Watch. And that right there is the first step in the Darksaber's lore changing from lightsaber with cool, unique blade to a symbol of leadership. And we'll go more into this, Lauren, when and if we move on to Rebels. Because thought about that.
00:57:56
Speaker
Again, the original idea of pre was Pre Vizsla would be wielding a Cortosis blade, Cortosis being a in Legends and still in in canon material that can deflect and match against a lightsaber. But it was George Lucas that started the change, changed it into being an actual lightsaber that was stolen from the temple.
00:58:23
Speaker
And its role and importance was discussed by Filoni and Favreau in them sketching out the canon Mando lore going forward that makes a certain Karen go crazy.
00:58:34
Speaker
go crazy. And so put a pin on the Darksaber because this is the start of that really becoming the chains. Alright.
00:58:45
Speaker
And Mando lore. I see what you did there and and I like it. It's very punny. a a I like it. You can't see that I'm doing the finger guns thing but I am doing the finger guns thing.
00:58:56
Speaker
Because that's the only proper response to a pun like that. it did i wish i it was it was mine. I saw out someone else doing it. But Bo-Katan isn't having any of this, saying no outsider will ever rule Mandalore. So she takes off with a group of like-minded Death Watch members. They're called the Night Owls. they Night Owls!
00:59:19
Speaker
Why? I've seen her too. Oh, yeah. Almec claims that Satine... Foe news... killed Vizsla and ordered him to resume his office as prime minister and resume Mandalore's warrior status. Like, who would believe that Satine could beat Vizsla? Like, i I honestly don't know how much, much like, like a Photoshop they had to change that to like try and make a that work.
00:59:53
Speaker
and And the pacifist ruler killed Vizsla. The warrior. Yeah. Yeah. that's ah that That sure is a story right there.
01:00:06
Speaker
Sure it is looking for is. They didn't say that she killed him. I think they said that she ordered him executed or something. They're trying to be like, oh, she just had someone else do her dirty work for her. Which is honestly even dumber.
01:00:19
Speaker
It's just...
01:00:22
Speaker
It just don't make sense. And that takes us into The Lawless, Season 5, Episode 16. Using Duchess Satine, Darth Maul lures Obi-Wan into a trap.
01:00:36
Speaker
I promise I'm going to have feelings. You're going to have a whole lot of feelings, aren't you? I'm going super normal. Super normal. I tell you, as frequently as the word trap has come up in Clone Wars, I should have Ackbar's It's a Trap clip from day one.
01:00:53
Speaker
You really should have. That's kind an oversight on all of our parts. Yeah, it is. ah It's just cliche. I mean, you could even use the Robot Chicken one if you wanted.
01:01:04
Speaker
Oh, yeah, that's how that would be that. that was he i' be cray away again and fear I fear what I would do is is go a little overboard, kind of like I originally did with the It's Like Poetry, It Rhymes when I did every every variation. And I would even pull from one of the Lego Star Wars specials where he's like, it's a tactical response assault party. Oh,
01:01:31
Speaker
yeah, I can see where that can get get a bit bunched. So Satine is still in prison and she's sprung by Corky, her nephew. And we're going to talk about Corky a little bit later. But dear listeners, I must apologize as i was putting together my notes for this episode and getting ready for the Corky conversation.
01:01:56
Speaker
i was sitting there thinking, wait a second. I could swear I remember seeing you Corky have scenes with Ahsoka. Ahsoka. And I went back and looked and we skipped accidentally like seven whole episodes back around seasons two, three, including Corky's first and only other appearance back in season three.
01:02:21
Speaker
We jumped straight from the Duchess of Mandalore to Sphere of Influence. um And so ah we're we're going to figure out you know the best time and way to do make goods on those. yeah those obsess fall right therere all ah I know exactly whose fault it is, but I've already embarrassed him enough today.
01:02:45
Speaker
So does this mean I can't make OBT and family reunion jokes yet? Not yet. We'll get there. and Okay. I'm biting my tongue this whole time, though. I hope you know that. I just don't get a lot of jokes.
01:02:58
Speaker
Just be careful not to bite the your tongue entirely off. Yeah, that would be bad. It would be hard for you to have your input into the episode. Yes, yes. That would be somewhat difficult. but And it wouldn't taste very good. And...
01:03:10
Speaker
and Bo-Katan is helping Corky. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, to which Satine replies, there was once a time we weren't enemies.
01:03:21
Speaker
Curiouser, curiouser. More jokes I had to cut out. and then Satine tries Satine finally manages to get signal and get a call out to Obi-Wan but unfortunately she's using Verizon which she should have been using AT&T which who knows is why her signal is bad what not T-Mobile?
01:03:43
Speaker
not Mint Mobile or no wait back when this was filmed I think you could have still used Singular yeah well she's not using any of those she is not she's Boost Mobile
01:03:57
Speaker
Wait, does that still exist? I don't know. i don't know. Am I dating myself here? Probably. Possibly. but anyway Only 90s kids remember.
01:04:09
Speaker
Yes, the Great Lamp War. was a dark time for humanity. But I would be remiss not to mention that we got our first look at first look at the Maldoloreans in this episode. Technically, they are called Mandalorian Super Commandos TM.
01:04:24
Speaker
The Maldalorians, which for the record look exactly like Mandalorians, except they have helmets with like fake horns to look them make them look more like Zabrak-y, if we're calling that a word. And they're red.
01:04:37
Speaker
Yes, they are red. I mean, it's really cool looking armor. Oh, yeah, really cool. that The Mandalorian Super Commandos are cool. The Mandalorian Super Commandos look really cool.
01:04:48
Speaker
ma as I mean, what one of them is is going to be a regular on the upcoming Maul Shadow Lord. Foreshadowing is a literary device. Exciting.
01:05:00
Speaker
Yes, once again, we have royalty calling out for Kenobi. is happening again. Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope. And at this point, Kenobi is summoned by the Jedi Masters.
01:05:14
Speaker
Kiari Mundi declaring it an internal Mandalorian matter is just another in a string of retroactively making him always wrong. Kiari Mundi cannot argue wrong about many things, except for one thing, which we'll get to Is the attack on the Wookiees?
01:05:32
Speaker
Yes. But no, you'd think with a head that big, he'd at least be like a little bit smarter, but no dice. And like I know apparently he was a little cooler in some Legends content, but still not enough to save him.
01:05:43
Speaker
He's never been cool. Always a meme and two brains. Hey, tell that to his five wives. Yeah, that's exactly what I was about to say. That's not true at all. He's the Jedi Master that canonically fucks.
01:05:56
Speaker
Captain America, fuck!
01:06:03
Speaker
Good. good Good. Thank you, Daryl. You're welcome. You're welcome. perfect were we' work' Worth it to dunk on me for that. dude good yeah Sorry, dar you had more things that you were going to say, but... Well, and and it was leading up to that joke, but you teed me up early.
01:06:24
Speaker
it was right there. I'm sorry. what What I was going to say is that when Phantom Menace was coming out and Dark Horse launched a prequel era comic, He headlined it initially, and he was a pretty decent character, including having multiple wives and an active personal life. Is that what we're calling it?
01:06:46
Speaker
Yes, that is exactly what we're calling it. And Dark Horse and the story group went out of their way to provide a reason to retain that, even after Attack of the Clones gave us that no attachment thing, all of which was leading up to Captain America! ah go Beautiful.
01:07:09
Speaker
I was about to ask you to play the clip again, so perfect. Warp it, again, like but of that so his most recognizable could be on that is he's he's wrong about a great many things different for one thing.
01:07:26
Speaker
well Well, that and and he has a canonical birthday. yeah, that too. yeah On a trading card. It is on a trading card, you're correct. Respect the little place but that trading card.
01:07:44
Speaker
okay Everyone talks about the joint attack on the Wookiees, but not enough people talk about the fact that he is a Jedi Master that canonically fucks. Like a lot. Captain America! He also has two brains.
01:07:56
Speaker
Oh yeah, that too. he he has it was wax fucking Which makes it being wrong even even more hilarious. Wait, wait wait he has two what, Nick? Two brains. Oh, brains.
01:08:09
Speaker
Brains. Oh. hi I thought we were still on the subject of... Captain America! I heard something else, Daryl, don't worry. ah don't worry Don't worry, Lauren. This is why you don't we don't have to watch... You've you've watched the only only fun part, one of the funniest parts of Seahulk now. So you don't have to watch Seahulk now.
01:08:32
Speaker
All right. Seahulk was good. Yeah, but we're doing a... ah getting him ready for ah for... getting her ready for Avengers Tuesday. Yes. Going over all the Marvel movies that I missed over the years.
01:08:45
Speaker
Oh, so Captain America fucking will return in Doomsday? Apparently. Maybe. He does have a baby. Yeah. it Oh no, if only I was going to splice the two clips together. Mm-hmm. In any case, at this point, it's quite clear that if Obi-Wan is going to save the former queen, he must go alone.
01:09:05
Speaker
And Obi-Wan arrives to Mandalore in the twilight, and honestly, I nearly forgot about that ship. I thought it had been lost somewhere, somehow.
01:09:18
Speaker
it's it's it But it's important, because that's the only way they explain how up how Luke's Luke's uncle Owen says that, Oh, your, your father flew a spice trader.
01:09:31
Speaker
or, you know, or you know Owen was just lying to keep Luke away from all of that. Would that lies to Luke Skywalker? Who would do such a thing? you think George Lucas what wouldn't include this entire thing just to justify one thing that he he wrote in a movie 40 years ago?
01:09:54
Speaker
i mean, that's how we have you know everyone going out of their way to make sure that Anakin never sees Grievous. Exactly. Including think a giant crystal between them. Mm-hmm. But yes, once Obi-Wan touches down, he lures a Death Watch into the ship to take his armor, episode four style.
01:10:12
Speaker
Yay, Lauren made a Star Wars reference! I did it, I made a reference. Good job, Lauren, I'm proud! What a and All we had to do was sew the holiday special, and now it's it's complete. Your transformation is complete. Oh, no. I grew up so fast.
01:10:32
Speaker
And Satine says to contact her sister for help. She'll send reinforcements. And like, personally, I call bullshit on Obi's surprise here because there is no way in all that time in the run together he had no clue that Satine had a sister, much less who that sister was.
01:10:49
Speaker
Unless this is just more plausible deniability on the quirky situation. Okay, can I talk about that? Yeah, whatever, too late. How should I know whose kid he is when I didn't even know she had a sister? Oh no, quirky is definitely not the sister's kid. There's no way. Not that I would know that or anything since I don't know who her sister is and didn't know until just now. um The Force told me, that's why I know. Don't worry about it, it's fine. So yes, they're they're trying to... I have i have so i have some more some more quirky stuff later on.
01:11:17
Speaker
Is that what Obi-Wan said to Satine when... Never mind. Oh no. We'll get there. Yes, Obi-Wan and Satine, they're trying to escape, but the ship is barely functional. It is quite difficult to escape with.
01:11:31
Speaker
it Barely functional. Boom goes the Twilight. Integrally dysfunctional. Anakin had just finished paying it off, too. i guess that's why I won't sparkle no more.
01:11:44
Speaker
But no, that ship is a cockroach. It's fine. yeah, it did. And I love that Obi-Wan has that little... The Twilight will return it Avengers Tuesday.
01:11:55
Speaker
Yeah, that was a cockroach. But no, I love that Obi-Wan has that little piece of hair that the animators always have fall in front of his face every time he gets the shit kicked out of him because only Obi-Wan fucking Kenobi would get like specially animated hair just for injury. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. this point... He's just going animate that little tiny bit of hair on his forehead. Yes. And he gets to you every time. And now we have...
01:12:16
Speaker
a Maul confrontation. He attempts to, well, he tries to tempt Obi-Wan to the dark side, saying that he wants him to suffer. Yep, and Maul and Savage capture Obi-Wan and Satine, and this next clip is longish for us, but you know what? There was not a a single second of this that I could edit out.
01:12:46
Speaker
...likeness shared by you and your Duchess. You should have chosen dark side, Master Jedi. Your emotions betray you.
01:13:00
Speaker
Your fear. And yes, your anger. Let your anger deepen your hatred. Don't listen to him, Obi.
01:13:12
Speaker
Quiet. You can kill me, but you will never destroy me. It takes strength to resist a dark side. Only the weak embrace it. that is more powerful than you know.
01:13:24
Speaker
And those who oppose it are more powerful than you'll ever be. I know where you're from. I've been to your village. I know the decision to join the dark side wasn't yours.
01:13:36
Speaker
The Nightsisters made it for you. Silence! You think you know me? It was I who languished for years, thinking of nothing but you. Nothing but this moment.
01:13:48
Speaker
And now, perfect tool for my vengeance is in front of us. I never planned on killing you. Share my pain, Kenobi.
01:14:01
Speaker
Sister!
01:14:34
Speaker
I've loved you always.
01:14:38
Speaker
always will. I'm not crying. You're crying. Cue Betsy. Cue Betsy.
01:14:50
Speaker
Sorry, the way I had to actually mute myself in the podcast for the duration of that clip. Oh my god, guys, where are the fuck do I even start? Like, how do I translate the screaming that is happening internally and just a moment ago was happening externally into thoughts? because just Do you need to scream do you just need to let out a primal scream?
01:15:10
Speaker
Or would that wake up your neighbors? I muted myself, so you didn't have to hear it. Okay. Because it was going to interrupt the clip. Okay, I'm just just gonna go kind of play by play here. Like, first things first. So Maul is not pulling any metaphorical punches and he is laying Obi-Wan's character flaws bare before the Force in everyone. Like, Obi-Wan's reliance on duty and the Jedi and a protocol in favor of action stop him from actually, you know, acting. And like, he frames it to himself as coming from this moral high ground where he's choosing light and doing the right thing. But Maul 100% clocks the reality when he mentions fear because I think a good half of Obi-Wan's motivation
01:15:45
Speaker
comes from that because like in his head he's still just this scared padawan who made the wrong choices and in his own mind at least watch his master die because of it because you know Obi-Wan has never freed when a second stopped blaming himself for Qui-Gon's death which also conveniently helps him further blame himself for all of Anakin's choices too gotta love how that works out and then we're also kind of breezing past one of my favorite things from the Phantom Menace that I really wish got talked about more Obi-Wan totally used the dark side to fight Maul. No questions there.
01:16:13
Speaker
like we just this just It's a thing that happened on screen. and You cannot convince me any differently. like Ultimately Obi-Wan did choose the light, but I feel like Maul could have pushed a hell of a lot harder here on how actually at that point Obi-Wan did in fact briefly choose the dark and how he used it to hold his own in battle and how without it he probably would have died just like his master.
01:16:33
Speaker
but anyway, moving on. Because now I'm busy screaming about Obi-Wan trying to empathize with Maul. And like, what gets me is that in another life under different circumstances, this would have worked. Like every single one of Maul's actions post bisection have been in the service of one thing. Being seen.
01:16:50
Speaker
Like genuinely, that's all he wants. For his existence, his experiences, and his pain to be seen and understood. For suffering to be known by the others around him because he spent so long going through it alone. All he wants is for his pain to just be acknowledged.
01:17:04
Speaker
Like, I think for Maul, it's a misguided attempt to make what happened to him mean something. Or, like, to give it some sort of meaning. Because when he was alone, you know, except for his people-eating snake friend, but he doesn't seem to count morally, so I won't either for this exercise, there was no one to witness or, like, understand what happened to him or what he was going through.
01:17:21
Speaker
Like, the, you know like, the whole thing about, like, the tree in the forest and of no one's around here at all. So it's like without making his pain known, it's almost like it never happened because the only one who saw it was himself.
01:17:34
Speaker
And if his pain never happened, then how could it mean anything? Because I think the idea that his suffering just happened, that there was no greater purpose or meaning and he just ended up in a shitty situation without his legs because of other people's choices and just the sheer randomness of the universe is more painful than the event itself. Yeah. It's not just about what he went through, but what he went through being in service of something greater or like somehow making him greater.
01:17:59
Speaker
But instead, here comes Obi-Wan trying to empathize and in the process, like rip up this whole idea of purpose Maul's built his existence on. He's telling Maul that none of this was his decision and that he was at the mercy of others making choices for him and about him and just using him as a tool. And honestly, I think that's the worst possible thing anyone could say to Maul, not least because it's the truth.
01:18:20
Speaker
i think Maul is painfully aware that underneath everything, that so much of his existence is only due to what others have done to him, and to hear it just plainly laid out like that by his greatest enemy is a bridge too far. Because now Maul's own lack of agency is out the open where everyone can see it.
01:18:37
Speaker
And then Maul just throws everything to the side and says out loud, we've all known this entire time. He wants Obi-Wan to feel his pain. And score one for Maul, he figured out how to accomplish that because no physical torture anyone could inflict would ever compare to the mental torture Obi-Wan will inflict on himself believing he failed someone he loves again.
01:18:56
Speaker
Emphasis on again. And it is, you are brilliantly, you brilliantly analyze it, and especially the the the way that Maul immediately the pivots from the attempt that Obi-Wan's trying to to empathize with him to striking down Satine because it's also he's doing that in front of his apprentice, his brother, someone he's trying to show the strength of.
01:19:28
Speaker
somebody he's trying to keep from making his same mistakes. By trying to reclaim strength and power and Obi-Wan's just basically saying like, you're you're still a pawn, you will always be a pawn until you break free of that. And Maul's just in the opinion is like, like i will I'll show you who's the pawn, I will kill the one you care about the most and assert a strength through violence for the dark side.
01:19:52
Speaker
To define himself with rage. So much of this has been part of like this narrative he's been building of him like you know living through this pain and overcoming it and becoming stronger and regaining power and you know putting all of his enemies in their place and showing Kenobi who like the real powerful one is. And here comes Kenobi just like turning all of that on its head and throwing it out the window. And that's probably the worst thing that he could have done in that situation because nothing is going to hit him all the way.
01:20:19
Speaker
Especially in front of Cervas who is like looking up to Maul and trying to to help him break together to trying to break a cycle. And the worst part is that Obi-Wan was trying to be nice when he did it.
01:20:34
Speaker
It wasn't sassy. It wasn't him trying to provoke or even harm No, he was trying to establish a genuine connection and be like, hey, I see you and I understand what you went through. But in doing so, he basically destroyed Maul's entire self sense of self in one go. And that can't happen because then that means none of this meant anything the entire fucking time.
01:20:54
Speaker
So then he he lashes out with violence. And once again, Obi-Wan's left holding someone he cares about in the exact same way he held his master. Mm hmm. and Ciri, and Sarasi, and a whole lot of other people.
01:21:11
Speaker
There's actually a really, really long list, and a lot of them are blonde. he has a type. He very much has a type. It's mouthy blondes. but One could even argue that Anakin is on that list.
01:21:23
Speaker
And then, speaking of Maul still being a pawn, we then cut to a brief cryptic interlude of Palpatine telling Masamita to prepare his ship.
01:21:35
Speaker
Hmm. What is what is what is kind kindly old Chancellor Palpatine up to? Is he going to go visit a children's orphanage? Is he going to open up a new yeah a new Starbucks?
01:21:46
Speaker
Who knows? He's going to open a new space box. oh Although... He's taking the orphans out for, I don't know, a pizza party at Lil' Tiver's.
01:21:58
Speaker
yeah Question. Question. yes given that sadie sadie Given that Katie Sackhoff voices Bo-Katan, is Star Wars Starbucks mascot Bo-Katan?
01:22:11
Speaker
Yes. Yes. yes yes Headcanon accepted. wait But does it include the mermaid tail? Yes or no? ah it's it's ah It's her instead of a mermaid tail, it's her holding her two twin blaster pistols.
01:22:25
Speaker
Ah, yes, of course. Okay. Worst for me. And Lauren is is now saying another reference that I don't get. ah Katie Sackhoff on the ah Battlestar Galactica reboot played the new version of Starbuck.
01:22:41
Speaker
Oh, okay. Hence why a character... voiced by Katie Sackhoff, would be the mascot for Starbucks. Well, okay. And also why it's significant that this piece of Mr. Mark.
01:22:52
Speaker
And Starbucks was ah one of the roommates in Moby Dick. And we're not sure how that relates to Starbucks, but they haven't related how any of that relates to Starbucks.
01:23:05
Speaker
They don't have all relates to Battlestar Galactica, but that's a whole other discussion. Yeah. Speaking, though, of Bo-Katan, she rescues Obi-Wan. And I love that you could just see Obi-Wan's instant compartmentalization of events because he's like, oh, look, a goal? Cool, great. No time to think about emotions.
01:23:23
Speaker
I'm not crying, you're crying. Now, just a small aside here. I've always liked Obi-Wan in the Mandalorian armor. It's a cool look and it's it's an effective kit.
01:23:36
Speaker
I just, I really, really like it. Obi-Wan with his lightsaber in Mandalorian armor with a jet pack. he looks He looks good. He looks good in art. When they came back with him in the sort of like Jedi commander armor, it was like, he looks like a knight.
01:23:53
Speaker
Obi-Wan looking like a knight. Obi-Wan looking, Obi-Wan in armor always works because like, That's a knight. Also, like, everyone looks hot in Mandalorian armor. Like, can we just establish that?
01:24:08
Speaker
The Mandalorian armor stays off stays on in bed. Yeah, of course it does. We can all agree we can all agree of that. You work around it. Well, I mean, you know, we know that as of the Mandalorian, that probably kind of is how it works. Yeah.
01:24:27
Speaker
At least for, you know... At least the mask stays on. A shuttle o lands on Mandalore to the Imperial March and Sidious gets off of the shuttle.
01:24:41
Speaker
this is and This is significant because this is Darth Sidious, a brand new character in case you didn't know about that lore. We've seen him before. A brand new character. Okay.
01:24:57
Speaker
We've seen him before in Clone Wars. We haven't seen him in person, I don't think. No. We've seen him in holograms, where this is his first...
01:25:08
Speaker
on-screen appearance of this brand new character, mysterious figure. and Who could he possibly be? be Bo-Katan's rebels and Obi-Wan see a huge battle raging, and Bo-Katan says, Maul must really want you dead. and oh you have no idea.
01:25:28
Speaker
I was going to mention what you're about to say, Betsy, but you you you put it very succinctly about how, like, so up awesome this visual is. Yeah, no, because like this is the downside of a podcast being an auditory medium because I don't know how to communicate just how effective the visuals on this scene are. It's like there's, you know, this little small scale battle happening. It's just a few players. It's up close and personal. Like it's almost quiet.
01:25:53
Speaker
And then like, you know, the big blast doors open. You see Obi-Wan kind of squinting into the light to try and get a look at what's happening on the other side. And it's just it's just hell full on. like that's the only one to see in the trailers for the season but even then it was just like a quick glimpse like the full thing is like Yeah, no, like it's just really powerful. Like the only way i can describe it, it literally is just like doors opening onto hell. It's like this is one of those scenes that has genuinely stayed with me for however many years since it aired.
01:26:23
Speaker
And I think about it a lot. Like it's just a perfect microcosm of what's going on with Obi-Wan. Like he's focusing on this battle right in front of him, the here and now, but inside this is actual war. Like the hell that he will once again refuse to contend with because it's easier to just close the blast doors on things he doesn't want to deal with.
01:26:39
Speaker
like Even Bo's little quip is so good because like it's a perfect mirror to how Obi-Wan himself deals with or you know really doesn't deal with these things and how he uses like these quips and sarcasm to distance himself from the actual pain he doesn't want to acknowledge. like it's just It's so good. And also, this is...
01:26:56
Speaker
What Duchess Satine was talking about was just like, I brought Mandalore into age of peace away from its archaic ancient wars. These were the wars that were happening.
01:27:10
Speaker
This was constant. This is why the entire of Mandalore is a barren desert wasteland. Why they literally live in a bubble. Because this was happening all the time.
01:27:24
Speaker
this This microcosmic of a car conflict is like, they reintroduced the warrior culture and guess what? Now it is, they're just, they are the example of like, oh, what does a warrior culture do when it's not conquering the stars? It fights each other in the most spectacular, gruesome, bombastic fight possible.
01:27:48
Speaker
what What happens when you turn a a culture back into a collection of Karen Travis tropes. Yes.
01:27:59
Speaker
I'm sorry. Did I say that out loud? It's okay. We didn't spend hours talking about what they're eating for dinner. And how much, and about 75% that is like implying how much we want to have sex with Boba Fett.
01:28:11
Speaker
Well, talking about what they're having for dinner. Exactly. I don't know why she spent so much time talking about their food. Like this is like a Brian Jock novel. We're not reading Redwall here, dude. Oh, yeah, Redwall.
01:28:26
Speaker
So Sidious enters the throne room to Maul, quoting Vader in the original movie. you know he i I sense a presence I've not felt since.
01:28:37
Speaker
oh and What sells it for me, again, Sam Witwer is voicing Maul throughout this, and you mentioned it earlier, Lauren, you're not used to Maul. speaking this much.
01:28:50
Speaker
Because we didn't have Scythe before. But the moment that he said, like the the quiver in his voice, he said, Master? Yes. Maul immediately immediately reverts to apprentice mode.
01:29:06
Speaker
But Sidious kind of sees right through it. Okay, but here's the thing. You said Sidious sees through his lies, but is it lies? Because I don't think it is.
01:29:17
Speaker
What I saw, and like, you know, you can disagree with me here, but what I saw looked like textbook fawning behavior. Like, Maul wasn't lying, or at least not outright. He was falling back on old behavior out of self-preservation.
01:29:28
Speaker
Like I've talked a lot about this episode about Maul's relationship with his pain and his past abuse at Sidious' hand and how that's a huge part of it. But what I'm seeing here is a situation where Maul doesn't even try to establish control because he doesn't believe he has any.
01:29:41
Speaker
Because he's being forced back into a situation where he had none. Like for years he had no way to fight back and more or less had it drilled into his head that fighting wasn't even an option. So the only way to survive was to do what he's doing here. You know, to kneel, to act like a good apprentice. To Fawn.
01:29:57
Speaker
And there's also the fact that that even when weep we first met Maul back in the in the previous season's finale, he said, I was apprenticed to the most powerful being in the galaxy.
01:30:11
Speaker
Even with him trying to reestablish himself, he always was starting with like the fact that there's someone bigger than me. That's what happens when you're subservient to an abuser for so long. you know It's hard to distance yourself and detach from that mindset. what What I see as the... I partly use the term lies because that's what Sidious says.
01:30:35
Speaker
oh that that's also part of the abusive language. Yes, but also I i see it as Maul is trying to buy himself time because he he's building up his own power network.
01:30:50
Speaker
that he already has. So he's buying time. Oh yeah, you, you, you take me back. up did You did take me back. Take me back. Daddy. I totally don't have this whole, this whole syndicate over here that as soon as I can, I'm going to, I'm going to take control of and kill you and, and all that good stuff.
01:31:10
Speaker
That's part of where the fawning comes in though, because that is also like part of why he would do that. It's self-preservation. Yeah. The only downside is that at the end, he would you know what he would say is buying time ends up not being buying time at all.
01:31:23
Speaker
Because that's usually how that plays out. But I digress. That's a whole whole conversation I could get into. But the major part of this is that Sidious is terrified. He effortlessly takes our Marlio brothers and just flings them against a wall. We'll get there.
01:31:43
Speaker
We're getting there. But that's the start. We'll get there because because before we we see how he handles them, we get, you know, final little revelation here.
01:31:57
Speaker
so back to your Republic and tell them what has happened. That would likely lead to a Republic invasion of Mandalore. Yes, and Maul will die. But Mandalore will survive. We always survive.
01:32:09
Speaker
Now go.
01:32:12
Speaker
You're Satine's sister, aren't you?
01:32:17
Speaker
I'm so sorry.
01:32:20
Speaker
who It's also a mirror of what he says to Padme in Revenge of the Sith, and also one of my favorite out-of-context Star Wars quotes, where when they're meeting at Padme's quarters, he says, Anakin's the father, isn't he?
01:32:32
Speaker
I'm so sorry. And out of context? Yeah. but not context I mean, granted, I think even in context, that's part of it, but... I love these little things.
01:32:44
Speaker
It's like poetry. It rhymes. Again, it's like poetry. It's not if they rhyme. Okay, so here's what what you were getting to earlier, Betsy. It's time to do something that Nick hates. It's time to do math. Uh-oh. It's math time.
01:33:01
Speaker
Okay, so... Nick, do you need a safe word? No. Nick just has to sit back and take it. Oh, wow. Okay. Nick has to sit back and take the math.
01:33:15
Speaker
So while not specifically established anywhere on screen or anything, Bo-Katan is said by Dave Filoni to be somewhere between 18 to 25 during the Clone Wars. And Satine is about 10 to 15 years older than her.
01:33:33
Speaker
Now, Corky is about 15 to 18 the two times that we see him. So Bo-Katan is not old enough to be Corky's mother.
01:33:47
Speaker
Like physically. Right. As of the latest that we've seen any of the family in the Star Wars timeline in The Mandalorian, we have never heard about any other siblings to Satine and Bo-Katan.
01:34:04
Speaker
But we do have a firm age for Obi-Wan. Right. He was 25 in The Phantom Menace, which puts him at 35 to 38 during the Clone Wars. And he and Qui-Gon protected Satine about 15 years before the Clone Wars. So I see possibility plausibility that he wouldn't have known about Bo-Katan.
01:34:29
Speaker
If we presume that Bo-Katan is born roughly, give or take, around the time that he and Qui-Gon were protecting Satine.
01:34:39
Speaker
If she was still baby. Right. So they protected Satine about 15 years before the Clone Wars. And i don't know about any of you, but I do not need any of the 40 calculators that I have for work to do that math. You have 40 calculators? He works for do you think? I've shown you the calculators, Nick. I've shown you the three of them.
01:35:04
Speaker
I don't need any of those to do this math. Oh, I don't either. I've been making jokes about it this whole time. How can you live with yourself with that many calculators? By working in a calculator factory, Nick.
01:35:15
Speaker
Yes. That's literally what he does. I'm not saying that Obi-Wan and Satine have a secret love child. But you're not not saying that either. oh Yeah, but I'm not saying that. Now, for the record, this has never been confirmed in any official source. And there are people out there who can...
01:35:34
Speaker
quite passionately make an argument that there's just at least one more sibling in the family that we don't know about. I call them cobras and seeders. But the math and the drama to be had in what is ultimately a large story of family generations are pretty strong arguments.
01:35:58
Speaker
Also, look at them. Look at them. Just use your eyes. Yes. so Just use your eyes. That's all I have to say. Now, i I am pretty sure that Lucasfilm will never, ever, ever acknowledge this.
01:36:18
Speaker
Well, of course not, because we can't have premarital sex. I mean... Am I wrong? I'm trying to think of if we have any That's why Anakin and Padme got married. Because of those sensibilities.
01:36:31
Speaker
You know I'm right. I'm trying to think... Of any. Well, I mean, if if we go into the extended media, we've we've got unmarried Jedi hooking up back in the High Republic era.
01:36:46
Speaker
And actually we have. um That's like post Disney though. Yes. Yeah, I know. That's what i mean. It's post Disney. This, the whole like no premarital sex was established before then.
01:36:58
Speaker
Gotcha. Gotcha. I see what you're saying now. Yeah. One of the places where Disney actually did get a little progressive. I know, right? It's shocking. We go back Maul and Savage versus Sidious.
01:37:10
Speaker
Yeah! Let's go! Can we get a wicked cool Sith fight? It's so cool! And, I mean, it's just ranging all over the place. Sidious is double fisting lightsabers and fighting off both of them at the same time.
01:37:30
Speaker
And between the two of them. He's terrifying. He's objectively terrifying as a combatant. And now he he even he turns his back to Savage. Because he knows he can.
01:37:46
Speaker
Well, of course he can, because he gives him double lightsaber blades to the gut. And then force throws him away. He does it with a cool, like, double. He just spins his saber and just, like, sprints backwards. after After, like, just making his way, like, it he he looks, he he fights like a demon. He's so scary.
01:38:10
Speaker
And he force throws... I love the whole thing. He force throws Savage away and Maul jumps down ah as Savage dies with spooky Nightsister magic mist bleeding out of him.
01:38:28
Speaker
It's really It's really tragic final lines, okay? It's really sad and tragic and he's like, I wasn't a good enough apprentice. It's like, dude, I'm not to you. i never i know was you. maybe you were an apprentice, but you were a great brother.
01:38:43
Speaker
Maul, just say it. But we can't have nice things. No. but no no Because Sidious has to be like, there can only be two. And you are no longer my apprentice. and iidious Sidious very handily defeats Maul, who begs for mercy.
01:39:05
Speaker
um effort A friend of mine who's barely interested in Star Wars wanted to watch that arc with me. And it' so like, because he he always thought Darth Maul was cool. And it's like, he he sort of like was like, he he broke Maul. He's like like, yeah, he's Darth Sidious. Darth Maul is like, he's he's a blunt instrument, a at tool, the Sidious.
01:39:30
Speaker
The name says it all. They can break, and like, it doesn't take a whole lot to he's the true dark Lord of the Sith. He defeats Maul. Maul's begging for mercy and Sidious tells him that there is no mercy, but he won't kill him.
01:39:47
Speaker
He has other uses for him as he continues to light Maul up with force lightning. Whereas again, like the it in the canon of, of Star Wars, force lightning is more than just like the actual lightning part. It's also like literally hitting your soul.
01:40:06
Speaker
And that is the end. or is it a I want to bring up the fact that Savage is now dead, and he was the one who consistently broke the rule of two with his presence.
01:40:23
Speaker
Because, you know, originally Dooku got him as his own apprentice when Dooku was already the apprentice, already breaking the whole... rule rule of two scenario.
01:40:34
Speaker
But then whenever he starts working with Maul, he continues working with it. If you envision, even if you envision Maul as like another apprentice, it's just like Savage was always out of place. And at the same time, he was also the one who seemed to reject the ideals of the Sith the most.
01:40:54
Speaker
He always had his goal of rescuing his brother over more, over anything else. And once he actually did that, he was content with just living with his brother at that point. It seems like most Sith get into the dark side with some sort of personal goal in mind, but and they kind of lose track of it. And then the betrayal. apprentice will become the master, must usurp the master.
01:41:18
Speaker
Well, it's a bond in the intent of that. Critically, it seems like any time that somebody gets into the dark side, they come into it with some particular goal, but they lose track of that goal for one reason or another. But Savage never does. The nature of power. in The nature of power, the seduction of it. And again, the rule of two is to be...
01:41:37
Speaker
to the The greatest example of the rule two is described as there's one who embodies power and one who craves it. Yeah, but no, Lauren, I do see what you're saying. And that's really interesting that like Savage didn't come in with any goal besides I want my brother.
01:41:51
Speaker
And he accomplished his goal. Yes. It's not something that got lost along the way. As you mentioned in the beginning, he wanted to be not master and apprentice with Maul. He wanted to be equals with Maul. But Maul only understood the concept of master and apprentice.
01:42:10
Speaker
Or at least Maul was only letting on that that's what he understood. When really the brother that Savage wanted was right next to him all the time, Maul just wouldn't let it show. Oh no, it's so tragic!
01:42:21
Speaker
Throughout the Clone Wars, too... the The Sith rule of two is kind of like the Pirates. Barbossa says about the Pirates Code in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. They're more just guidelines. Honestly, that sort of reflects honestly the Pirates in the beginning, who may not have known about insolence, were more brotherly than than even the Malia brothers. And that they forgave each other for their transgressions.
01:42:50
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And... No, Lauren, I think that's really cool what you brought up about, like... Yeah. Savage being the one that, like, consistently broke the rule of two, but also broke with, like, the tradition of what it is to be part of the Sith. Mm-hmm.
01:43:04
Speaker
Yep. Yeah, you know, it just, uh, it seems very interesting that we have this character who is a Sith to some degree or another, but is it breaks basically all of the rules always.
01:43:17
Speaker
And, uh, He definitely... he He is the one Sith who actually achieves his goal, technically. Even if he may not know he achieved his goal all the time.
01:43:28
Speaker
And honestly, looking at it, he does help with a staff with with dimensionalizing a lot more characters. ah We learn more about Ventress because becauses of Savaz. We learn more about Maul because of Savaz. We learn more about Dooku even in the sword time we had him with Savaz.
01:43:48
Speaker
There's a... His... And he went through, like, all three of them as, like, dark side characters and their connections as sort of hit their pawns to him. They were supposed to be pawns to him, but, it's like, they ultimately... We got more dimensionality out of them.
01:44:04
Speaker
You know what? Technically, we also saw more... We saw Sidious in person for the first time because of Savage. Yeah, there we go. True. He's connected to all the major darksiders that we...
01:44:18
Speaker
we've yeah we We learned more, but we learned about Mother Towson as well, and these are Darkseid's presence. Strictly speaking, that this was the first time we saw Sidious in person yeah in the Clone Wars. We saw him in person in Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. Well, yeah. yeah but But ah also worth mentioning, too, spoilers those ah other uses and the immediate aftermath of this episode Yeah, they they were never filmed.
01:44:48
Speaker
Unfortunately. Never. never The arc was written and eventually saw the light of day as the comic Darth Maul, Son of Dathomir, which is still considered to be canon, even though it was published before the Disney buyout.
01:45:03
Speaker
I still need to get a copy of that. A physical copy. And I'm sure, too, that Maul will return Avengers Doomsday. Oh, for sure.
01:45:15
Speaker
I hope you'll never get old. Nope. The timing of us talking about this arc is very fortuitous, even if we didn't plan it this way.
01:45:26
Speaker
As the post-Clone Wars series Maul Shadow Lord is going to be premiering on Disney Plus less than two weeks after this episode drops.
01:45:38
Speaker
And it's going to follow Maul continuing to build his criminal syndicate in the early days of the Empire. Oh boy. And Sam Witwer hamming it up in the vocal booth.
01:45:48
Speaker
Oh yes. Sam Witwer is in the vocal booth. Vanessa Marshall is in yeah the the vocal booth. Because Space Mom is back! And...
01:46:00
Speaker
Just this morning, well, she's playing the Muldelorien. Oh, that's correct. But she still stays known to me. Now, also, kind of you just a a little note here. ah This morning, as we record it,
01:46:15
Speaker
record this, I was watching the latest weekly Star Wars Explained Weekend Star Wars video, and they were talking about this, and ah someone asked them about, i can't I can never remember the name of the character, but the Twi'lek Jedi Padawan that Maul killed in one of the comics miniseries. Yeah, oh my gosh, I can't remember her name either, but I know you're talking about... but we yeah worked alongside her, you pretended to work with her, only so that he could get close to her to kill her.
01:46:51
Speaker
And Alex and Molly started talking about, you know, we we know that there is the young Twi'lek Padawan who starts working with him in It may or may not become new Darth Talon.
01:47:07
Speaker
Well, what I was about to say is what they were talking about, everybody is set is equating her with Talon. What if she's more equivalent to that Padawan from the comic? Yeah. And he ends up working with her, betraying her and killing her too. It could.
01:47:28
Speaker
Why not both? I mean, don't get me wrong. I want Darth Talon back just as much as the next person for, you know, different reasons. But i can see i can see I could see how that did that they connect that storyline together into like corrupting her into Darth Talon.
01:47:45
Speaker
But no, I like that. Yeah, either way, I'm excited for both of those. That is this set of episodes. Now, Lauren, you are our test subject. I mean, you are the person experiencing this for the first time. Yeah.
01:48:00
Speaker
I know that. Yeah, I know that this is typically not the kind of story arc that is is your prime interest in Clone Wars. But what do you think of it?
01:48:12
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I'm still just not that into the Mandalorians in general. ah But at the same time, I did like the Malia brothers a lot. I thought that ah bringing together all of the different crime lord stuff, that that scene in particular and seeing all of their attacks is very cool. There were a lot of really great action sequences.
01:48:29
Speaker
in this one. arent Just to show them. Yeah, yeah. they're through Some excellent action overall. And seeing the death of, ah you know, of multiple major characters was ah pretty pretty intense.
01:48:43
Speaker
you've got you got pretty intense at the end there. Yep. The Law List is an episode that I will never forget. I am a little bit disappointed to hear that we're not going to get to follow up on what happens to Maul within this series anyway. Spoilers!
01:48:57
Speaker
spoilers Spoilers! We will get to... Don't make me sick River Song on you. Spoilers. We will see.
01:49:08
Speaker
you Maul will return. Okay. Yes, yes, in Avengers, we talked about this. That is good. yeah Yep. But with that, and any other closing thoughts from any of us?
01:49:22
Speaker
Honestly, again, this is probably up there like with many people's favorite arcs and Again, like it, it just, it, it has a lot of stuff I like. It has like the Mandalorians. has a lot of story, a lot of lore. It, it,
01:49:37
Speaker
Honestly, this the standout is though Maul and Savaz are just like amazing characters. Yeah. we we know Oh, wait, wait. One thing that I think we are remiss in not acknowledging and that it was at the beginning of the episode, The Lawless, ah that it was in honor of Ian Abercrombie.
01:49:54
Speaker
Yes, true. I mentioned that when we when we were watching it. ah did the This was the last voice acting of him as Palpatine Sidious and Well, he did an amazing job.
01:50:10
Speaker
Yes, he did. And you you have heard and or seen the work, Lauren, of the two voice actors who stepped in to voice Palpatine going forward. Yeah. The the first, of course, is um Ian McDiarmid, the Emperor. action yeah The original scenery chewer.
01:50:36
Speaker
Yes. The other is Sam Witwer, the voice of Maul. Ah, yes. Which he he tells a great story that after he started occasionally voicing Palpatine, he met Ian McDiarmid either at Lucasfilm or a convention or something. and i thought it was like, interested that it was either at the Lucasfilm or Skywalker events, I believe.
01:51:03
Speaker
Yeah, i don't I don't remember. But he was introducing himself to Ian McDiarmid and Ian McDiarmid is like, and and who are you? And he's like, I'm you when they can't afford you.
01:51:13
Speaker
yeah Beautiful. yup ah So if there's no other thoughts, last thoughts, then um i just want to, I just want to thank everyone for joining us for casual nerdity clone watch again. ah Be sure to follow us on socials, Facebook, Instagram threads and, and Twitter slash X where we're casual nerdity and blue sky where we are casual nerdity.com. And you can also help the podcast get a larger reach by giving us a hopefully good review on your podcast platform of choice. Or if you're listening through YouTube, do all of those cliched YouTube things of liking, subscribing, getting notifications. We want all of those algorithms getting more ears on the show. And you want a rhythm,
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Speaker
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01:52:27
Speaker
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01:52:41
Speaker
Bye. goodby Bye. This has been casual nerdity. We hope you've enjoyed your time with us and look forward to having you back.