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Clone Watch - Episode 22
0 Playsin 20 hours
Daryl, Nick, & Lauren are back to Clone Wars, closing out season 4. Asajj Ventress goes home to Dathomir just in time for Count Dooku to attack the Nightsisters, and Savage Oppress continues his search for his brother, Maul.
00:00 Introduction
06:37 Massacre
19:27 Bounty
41:37 Brothers
54:26 Revenge
To follow along with your viewing, you can find the Clone Wars chronological viewing list at:
https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-clone-wars-chronological-episodeorder
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Transcript
Introduction to Casual Nerdity Podcast
00:00:11
Speaker
Casual Nerdity is a podcast celebrating and discussing the pop culture that we love. Movies, TVs, comics, books, games, you name it. Ari missed to talk about the good, what worked, and yeah, sometimes what didn't.
00:00:23
Speaker
All with an eye towards building up, not tearing down. Thanks for joining us.
00:00:31
Speaker
Welcome back to Casual Nerdity, everyone, and welcome to 2026. Welcome to 2026. It's a year.
00:00:39
Speaker
it's a year We made it! We're alive! we We finished a rotation around the sun and we're totally alive. Don't jinx it.
00:00:50
Speaker
I mean... It already happened. Yeah. Yeah, it already happened. It's not like, you know, saying it's going to make it not happen.
00:01:02
Speaker
you that The calendar page already flipped.
Clone Watch Series Milestone
00:01:06
Speaker
But it's it's been a few episodes since we were all here to do Clone Watch. Yeah. has been.
00:01:15
Speaker
We are here for the 22nd episode of Clone Watch. Beautiful. but That's going to finish out season four.
00:01:26
Speaker
Then we will... we We are more than halfway through. we are more than halfway through Clone Wars. Now...
Lauren's Star Wars Gaming Experience
00:01:36
Speaker
it's I think it's been a while even on Clone Watch since we've recapped exactly why we're doing this. Ah,
00:01:44
Speaker
So... So, who talks first? Do I talk first? You talk first? It's hard hard to tell with all the apparatus. I know, I need a new i need a new microphone.
00:01:55
Speaker
Yes. Because I've got a new microphone. Mm-hmm. So, Lauren joorder joined our gaming group. Yes, I did. Which, at the time, was super heavy on the Star Wars RPG.
00:02:11
Speaker
Indeed. it was there there was there There is, in fact, a ah group online specifically dedicated to the Star Wars RPG, separate from all the other games that we do together.
00:02:25
Speaker
Yes. Just because that's how many Star Wars games we run. ah Well, that that and since Nick was running the Star Wars RPG group on Meetup when we started the How We Roll Gaming Meetup, I didn't want to say, okay well, that's done now.
00:02:45
Speaker
you know Because it had a history. it has its own recognition and reputation. so And I didn't want to toss it out the window unilaterally. We got an article in in a paper in a in a magazine once. Oh, boy.
00:02:58
Speaker
That means that we can show up on Wikipedia. I mean, we could show up on Wikipedia just by you making an entry. Yeah. But we ah but we we have all of these inside jokes and running gags and things that all tied back to Star Wars. But how familiar were you with Star Wars?
00:03:22
Speaker
I had seen the original trilogy and and Rogue One. that That was basically it. And so, with time on on your hands, time available, you started hanging out with Nick and said, Hey, let me see this Star Wars stuff. Mm-hmm.
00:03:43
Speaker
And, you know, the the one of the one of the things that prevented me from getting into the series historically was that I'm really more a fan of animation than live action. I'm absolutely not that big a fan of live action media for the most part.
00:03:58
Speaker
And most of Star Wars is live action media, but there is at least one notable exception.
Understanding Clone Wars Chronology
00:04:07
Speaker
The Clone There several notable exceptions, but this is the first one chronologically.
00:04:12
Speaker
Yeah. Which leads us to... so we're We're watching Clone Wars. How are we watching it, Nick? Oh, was waiting for this.
00:04:24
Speaker
We're watching it the correct way. Oh, of course. In chronological order.
00:04:32
Speaker
Oh, i thought you said the correct way. Yes. In chronological order, rather than the lopsided seasonal...
00:04:43
Speaker
a way that it sees the, or release order. Not that it really matters much at this point. Yeah, at this point it doesn't matter. we have Except for one episode. There's one episode that's out of chronological order.
00:04:57
Speaker
At this point, you know, we're we're pretty much, you know, we're watching it the correct way in release order. right And,
00:05:09
Speaker
we're We're talking about our reactions to clone Nick and I are rewatching. Lauren is watching for the first time. Yes. And, um, and so we are heading into now season, the end of season four.
Season 4 Episode Breakdown
00:05:30
Speaker
And this is going to be putting, these four episodes are going to be putting a lot of, a lot of plates in the air. doing a lot of setup for season five.
00:05:43
Speaker
Oh yeah. Season five, season six, and season seven. um mostly The reason I only said season five is season five was ostensibly the end.
00:06:02
Speaker
And we'll go over that at the end of season five. All right. now um But this time around, we are going to be looking at Massacre Season 4, Episode 19, Bounty Season 4, Episode 20, Brothers Season 4, Episode 21, and Revenge Season 4, Episode 22.
00:06:27
Speaker
So, do we want to get started? Do we want to dive in? i think there's a lot to dive into here. so let's... Dig in. So, let's start first with Massacre, Season 4, Episode 19. And remember, this show is for kids. Yes. Count Dooku launches an all-out droid attack on Asajj Ventress. Oh yeah, the Nightsisters return! Yes.
00:06:55
Speaker
Defeated by Savage, oppressed the last time we saw her, Ventress runs back to Dathomir, runs to Mother Talzin, ah to become a Nightsister again.
00:07:08
Speaker
Basically, Crytel and Tamal. Yes. Yeah. yeah And so, at the same time, we are kind of few easing into the endgame of the Clone Wars, so it's time to start cleaning up some loose ends. Oh boy. You summoned me, my lord.
00:07:32
Speaker
The time has come at last to take revenge on Asajj Ventress and the witch Mother Dowsin. I have learned Ventress has returned to Dathomir.
00:07:43
Speaker
Go there and wipe the witches out. All of them. Their illusions do not frighten me. Yes, master!
00:07:56
Speaker
Now, I almost pulled also pulled the clip from... The Phantom Menace, to go along with that, wipe them out. Oh, I love them.
00:08:08
Speaker
Because, know, that was no coincidence in writing dialogue. Yeah, exactly. again it's like poetry, so if they rhyme. Thank you,
00:08:21
Speaker
but So, you know, there there was no accident there. ah But yeah, yeah we're going to have... dooku's saying yeah let's just get him off the table i don't want to deal with him it's serious business and grievous is on serious business now this isn't mentioned on screen but especially since we do have that wipe them out all of them uh parallel there
00:08:53
Speaker
Nick, did you ever wonder if maybe Dooku also had orders to get rid of the Nightsisters?
00:09:05
Speaker
I wouldn't be surprised, considering who his master is. and clearly, Nightsisters are incredibly powerful. And we'll see how powerful they are.
00:09:20
Speaker
his master would not want them on the table. Yeah. I mean, and, and we know from, we we know from ancillary media that was originally written to be episodes of clone wars that, uh, Sidious is aware of the night sisters. Sidious has a connection to the night sisters. Uh,
00:09:50
Speaker
in the form of that being the source of his um of his previous apprentice. Spoilers. Foreshadowing is a literary device.
00:10:02
Speaker
And of course, it did there's also previous allusions of the Sith alliance with the Nightsisters and Palpatine just being jealous of power.
00:10:14
Speaker
course. Yeah. So Ventress... It just so happens that he can he could knock out two annoying elements with one forearm cyborg.
00:10:28
Speaker
Right. So Ventress goes through this spooky ritual to renounce the ways of the Sith and be reborn a Nightsister. Oh, yes.
00:10:39
Speaker
And again, just credit to the art style and the aesthetic of the Nightsisters. it's a and it's It's very, very witsy, very...
00:10:52
Speaker
and And this location and this this type of ritual, all of the iconography of this, would have potentially come back in another future story arc that was all written out by Katie lucass katie Lucas, George's daughter. Again, it's like poetry, so if they rhyme.
00:11:18
Speaker
And you Clone Wars... like we'll talk about at the end of season five, was cut short. That storyline was adapted also into ancillary media as the novel Dark Disciple. But this location here and this kind of ritual was going to be kind of important and called back later on.
00:11:42
Speaker
We'll get into that. ye And so the Nightsisters, they begin celebrating the return of Ventress, but as they do so, Grievous attacks.
00:11:57
Speaker
Yep, and the Nightsisters, naturally, they fight back, led by Ventress and Mother Talzin. And as Ventress goes into battle, one of her new friends dies to a collapsing statue.
00:12:11
Speaker
Sang the tone. Which also seems to me that this is like the second time that's happened.
00:12:19
Speaker
Ventress makes a new friend. Ventress' friend dies. yep Yeah, you don't want to make friends with Ventress. yep And then she starts just wrecking some droids. She gets out there. She's she's she's using that combat experience.
00:12:35
Speaker
yeah but Meanwhile, Mother Talzin... you know goes sneaking back around into the Nightsister caves. um orders all the aga and Before that, she orders one of the ah other Nightsisters to you oh go go go to my chambers. You're going to find this this sphere there. go Go bring that to me. Bye-bye.
00:12:57
Speaker
And then she goes in to have that Nightsister elder raise the fallen... raise the fallen Nightsisters as a zombified army to fight back against the droids. Yep.
00:13:14
Speaker
And this is where we fully reach the epitome of Star Wars being ah the most absurd concept possible.
00:13:26
Speaker
And that's why i love it. What do you mean absurd, Nick? What is absurd about zombie witches... rising from the dead to fight robots yeah yeah nothing absurd about that at all i mean that's a tuesday
00:13:46
Speaker
and at this point but you know because you were we're in kind of a natural setting even though it looks all spooky and witchy Grievous deploys the defoliator. Remember that from all the way back in season one's Defenders of the Peace? Oh boy. With George Takei?
00:14:06
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, they brought it back. Again, it's like poetry, so that they rhyme. It's obviously that was I remember watching it, it's like, wait, is that to the defoliator again?
00:14:22
Speaker
I was like, i remember watching that a kid being like, oh, that's cool. Nice. Hey, hey they they they actually you remembered one of their big big uber weapons and used it for the purpose that it was designed for. In a way an effective way. for Oh, they're using it for a massacre.
00:14:44
Speaker
Yes. And so meanwhile, Mother Taliesin has a lock of Dooku's hair. Yes. Oh, we're getting into some... If we weren't being like, oh, we're doing some witsy stuff. We're going all hoodoo with the voodoo now. We're going head for maximum witch mode.
00:15:02
Speaker
And she creates a voodoo doll using that lock of hair. From the orb. Yeah.
00:15:10
Speaker
And is harming him a long distance. she She's on Dathomir. He's on Sereno. And she's like you know making these nasty boils appear on his face. and It's the power sorts of stuff of the orb.
00:15:28
Speaker
Orb. Orb. What what is this? Awesome games done quick? And then we we get into, you know, a Grievous versus Ventress lightsaber to lightsaber fight. Grievous goes down, but he fights dirty with droid back up.
00:15:49
Speaker
Because that's that's Grievous. He fights dirty. Of course he does. I mean, honestly, Ventress has been surprised. That's his thing, Ventress. You know, Grievous is... he He kind of oscillates in his threateningness. Sometimes he's more of a pathetic antagonist. Other times he's more of a dangerous, serious antagonist. And in this instance, he is going maximum serious mode.
00:16:17
Speaker
Because he's we've got Grievous versus zombies. We've got Grievous targeting Talzin to save Dooku. He's just going in. as like like is It's totally like... truly like the scale the scale The scale of of Grievous power has finally been like shifted closer to his original appearance where he is just bodying everything.
00:16:43
Speaker
But you know, he would definitely be taken out by a couple of Gungans, definitely.
00:16:51
Speaker
And when when the when the smoke clears, they've wiped out the Nightsisters. All of them. Well, not all, because Ventress is left.
00:17:04
Speaker
it ah We'll get to that. Ventress is left and a ghosty Mother Talzin apparition. Yes, a Force Ghost Witch.
00:17:16
Speaker
This chapter is over.
00:17:34
Speaker
Your destiny will always be linked with ours, but you have your own path to follow
00:17:47
Speaker
now. No! Wait! You can't leave me here! Don't worry, Mother Taliesin will return.
00:17:58
Speaker
In Avengers Doomsday. Yes, of course. Because everyone is returning in Avengers Doomsday. i mean, I guess Disney owns it all, so... She's not wrong.
00:18:11
Speaker
Now, this is, once again, a pattern of Ventress being just discarded by everyone that has taken her in at any given point.
00:18:28
Speaker
To quote the guy from The Room, everybody betrayed me. I'm all alone now. And, you know, I'm not saying that this looks like the start of a redemption arc for Ventress, but... Foreshadowing is a literary device.
00:18:47
Speaker
oh And, oh, and while we're here, hey look at that. It's a genocide. Remember, everybody, this is a kid's show. Now, I would like to to note, I did kind of get the sense that, like, the Nightsisters that we see in this particular group, I kind of got the sense that they weren't, like, the only Nightsisters in existence. Like, I kind of got the sense that they were they were a group that, you know, spanned most of that. Put a pin in that for a second. Yeah.
00:19:17
Speaker
Put a pin in that for a second. I have some notes at the beginning of the next episode. Yes. Okay. Yeah.
Ventress' Complex Character Arc
00:19:24
Speaker
And speaking of the next episode, next up is Bounty, Season 4, Episode 20.
00:19:32
Speaker
An abandoned Asajj Ventress joins Boba Fett on an assignment. Boba Fett? Boba Fett? Now, here's we're we're already going to pull that pin out.
00:19:45
Speaker
So let's take a little look at, you know I don't know whether to call it a Mandela effect or something else, but the opening newsreel that recaps the attack on the Nightsisters in the previous episode specifically says... After an assassination attempt by his forsaken apprentice, Asajj Ventress, Count Dooku launches a brutal counterattack against the Nightsisters, massacring the entire clan.
00:20:12
Speaker
Now, as you just noted, Lauren... That newsreel says massacring the entire clan. Yes. Not wiping out everyone on Dathomir.
00:20:27
Speaker
Now this has been sort of a weird... Because going back to Legends, the Night Sisters were a clan of Force witches on Dathomir.
00:20:37
Speaker
They weren't the witches of Dathomir. Yeah, yeah like i like kind of get the fit I did kind of get the sense that the Nightwitches that we see, they are a singular group of Nightwitches, which are part of a greater collective that span most of Dathomir's surface area, you know?
00:20:58
Speaker
That was Legends, and then transferred into canon, the Nightsisters are what the Witches of Dathomir are, but then that's also morphed into what you're getting into, Daryl.
00:21:12
Speaker
Yeah, somehow, not only among the fans, but even other Star Wars projects, that seems to have somehow morphed into the near extinction of all life on Dathomir.
00:21:29
Speaker
Now it's sort of been slowly, even re it sort of went from legends, multiple clans, one of them being Nightsisters, to the Clone Wars, the Nightsisters are the witches of Dathomir, to in newer canon stuff, to be like the Nightsisters are a clan, but every clan of witches are based off the Nightsisters, but are less powerful.
00:21:56
Speaker
and And of course, have there's there's also the element of talking about wiping out all life on the planet. there's in ah In the video game, in the there's no life there.
00:22:11
Speaker
And there's the Night Brothers. There's deal with the Night Brothers, who are a clan of male Xarpex on the planet that We don't see Grievous Massacre.
00:22:22
Speaker
there's There's also a variety of quite dangerous creatures that you can fight in the video game that are quite alive at that point in time. but And further further media,
00:22:36
Speaker
um to ah to a lesser extent, Ahsoka. To a greater extent, Tales of the Empire. yeah The miniseries. Is what confirms that there are more clans of witches.
00:22:50
Speaker
Right. And that they were still around after this. but just The Night Sisters were the major faction of witches. And somehow, everybody got it into their heads that this was a genocide of the entire planet.
00:23:11
Speaker
Right. Despite what the newsreel specifically said. Yeah. Again, it's a weird mix of good from Nightsisters were the minority sort of sort of dark side witches of Dathomir, then became just the witches of Dathomir, then now are like, they were the major witches, but there's other lesser witches, clans.
00:23:36
Speaker
and And what's interesting is... They're kind of with a full circle. Yeah. Well, what I was going to say is what what's an additional little interesting asterisk to all of that is before Ahsoka and Tales of the Empire kind of coming back full circle with that, the next time, the next series that we see Dathomir in, in Rebels...
00:24:05
Speaker
Yeah, it looks like everybody's gone.
00:24:10
Speaker
i see. but But they only focus around that area. Yeah, we see in this app in that previous episode. so For a reason. We'll get into that that. That is an element with Star Wars in general.
00:24:24
Speaker
Seeing a small area of a planet and assuming the entire planet is exactly like that one small area. Yeah. stars Star Wars is all a planet is full of planets of hats.
00:24:37
Speaker
And people seem to think that Dathomir's hat became ah dead. Yes. But again, it's In the greater sense, you can understand how the greater Star Wars galaxy would be like, yeah, the witches are dead.
00:24:53
Speaker
Dathomir haunted. No one goes there anymore. i mean, people were going there anyway. Yeah. Because it had witches there. now they're dead. So you got to assume planet's haunted now.
00:25:06
Speaker
The planet is haunted by the ghosts of zombie witches. yeah Who the hell is going to go there? Kestis. calcastus yeah hello well Well, Cal's kind of kinky that way.
00:25:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:26
Speaker
yeah Okay. Speaking of places we've been before. a We're going going to someplace we hardly ever go. Tatooine! Yes, Ventress. She visits Mos Eisley.
00:25:44
Speaker
She kills a guy. Everyone stops briefly. And then they go back to dancing. So, average Mos Eisley cantina. Yep, it's Mos Eisley cantina, alright.
00:25:55
Speaker
There is a lightsaber death in a Tatooine cantina. Must be Tuesday. And after killing that guy, though, ah specifically because she killed that guy, Ventress gets drafted into young Boba Fett's bounty hunting crew ah because, well, he was a member of that crew and now she has to take his place.
00:26:17
Speaker
Yep. And along with some of the OG Empire Strikes Back bounty hunters... We got Dengar, we got Bosk. But we are introduced to Lats Razzy, who's got a pretty cool design and gimmick.
00:26:37
Speaker
She's got a cool whip. no Yeah, she's got that cool like like plant whip thing. Yeah. And Heisinger.
00:26:47
Speaker
Really cool sort of drawing of an Aztec head look. He was going to be in the cancelled Star Wars 1313 video game. Oh, neat.
00:27:00
Speaker
And that makes sense then why he was paired with Boba Fett.
00:27:05
Speaker
Since it was the so it's very a Boba Fett game. Ostensibly, they never confirmed it until after was cancelled. Once it was cancelled, they showed the concept art. Heisinger was there. Yeah, it was Boba Fett.
00:27:20
Speaker
But they they get briefed on their job, and it's going to be a train job. Yeah! yeah They have to protect a mysterious cargo from potential raiders.
00:27:32
Speaker
Yes, and they must not open the box. That's illegal. This is a very unique planet. Again, they have to come down through an inn...
00:27:42
Speaker
through an in orbital station because the surface of the planet is very volatile and they're all underground with these with these cool underground trains. Yes, it's a very cool setting.
00:27:57
Speaker
so you know Ships would would be destroyed if they tried to To go there. yeah good excuse for why they can't do like the usual transport and buy a ship.
00:28:10
Speaker
It just leads to like a cool underground sort of fluorescent and then rocky environment. I mean, let's let's let's be real. Every sort of outlaw story at some point, and that's that's basically what bounty hunter stories in Star Wars are,
00:28:28
Speaker
Has to do a train job. He's got to do a train job. I mean, there there is a reason why when Fox was kind of stupid and said, um nobody's going to understand the original pilot of Firefly. We're not going to run that one. You need to do a new first episode that it was a train job.
00:28:54
Speaker
Because it it fit. It was an outlaw thing. And you know the the train job is a great episode of Firefly. But it's kind of funny if you... i don't Since you don't really dig live action, Lauren, I'm sure that you haven't seen it. No, haven't. What's interesting is if you what if you watch the DVDs, so you watch everything in production order, because Fox also totally screwed with the running order,
00:29:24
Speaker
um the The last episode that they aired was the two-hour first episode that they replaced with the train job. um But if you watch everything in order, you watch Serenity, the the two-part pilot, and then you watch the train job.
00:29:45
Speaker
The train job, in dialogue, gives you all of the character introductions that you watched in Serenity. Yes.
00:29:56
Speaker
Makes sense. So it's like, we we have to explain who the characters are, so we have dialogue saying who the characters are.
00:30:07
Speaker
But yeah, so as a as the gang is going through this this complicated cave system on their train, ah they run into some centipede-riding ninjas. Yes, the Kagi Warriors.
00:30:24
Speaker
Which are really cool, and also, I think even you mentioned it, but I don't know if you had notes, you mentioned they're very Mortal Kombat-looking ninjas. Yes, yes, definitely. Yes.
00:30:37
Speaker
and they just They have a super cool look. They have a super cool vibe and and skill set. They ride giant centipedes. But are they ever named on screen?
00:30:49
Speaker
No. In fact, I, for years, seeing it written since they were never named on screen, I thought they were cage warriors. Hmm.
00:31:07
Speaker
Because of the spelling, K-A-G-E. Makes sense. And then I was listening to the audio book of the Battlefront 2 novel.
00:31:21
Speaker
And there's a member of a resistance cell that the main character goes undercover with that they kept referring to as a Kagi, Kagi, Kagi. And i was like, well, i haven't heard of that before. And as I was looking up information on the members of that cell, thinking I might want to use some of them in an RPG session before they all met their untimely demise. um I said, oh, so that's how you say that. Okay.
00:31:54
Speaker
was like, okay, now I totally was not picturing this character right. And again, I imagine that my connection was when I called them Cage Wars was because there's a character called Johnny Cage in Mortal Kombat. They look like Mortal Kombat ninjas and they spell everything for K in Mortal Kombat. So i was like, yeah well, that's a fine homage Mortal Kombat halfway. That could be precisely where it came from.
00:32:26
Speaker
i wouldn't be surprised. and Also, the underground trade would definitely make for an interesting Mortal Kombat stage. Oh, it would be. And also an homage to one of the classic to the Mortal Kombat 3 subway stages. Yeah.
00:32:42
Speaker
Oh.
00:32:45
Speaker
Sorry, I just a Kombat episode. I just had a moment of s inspiration for RPG creation. Oh, boy. so um I'll just say The Corellian job. ah Yes, the Corellian job.
00:33:02
Speaker
The Corellian job. But the the cargo is revealed, and it's a young girl. Well, we first we've got to remember that there's some really great fight choreography in this episode. Oh, yes. There is. Certainly.
00:33:17
Speaker
Like, again, you there's not a whole lot to talk about in terms of, like, specifics. It's not really our thing, and it's more of a... if you If you like a good fight choreography, just pull up some clips of that on YouTube and you'll see like it's really solid. two Right. Oh, it definitely. Definitely. And we we see that that's a young girl.
00:33:41
Speaker
And the warriors, we then find out, are led by her brother. And they're actually trying to rescue her. But they they all kind of get caught up.
00:33:52
Speaker
by Ventress and Boba. And now, but by this point, correct me if I'm wrong, Nick, by this point, the rest of the Bounty Hunter crew has... they They've all been forcibly kicked off the train. Some of them live with.
00:34:08
Speaker
Yes. Yes. So, then the the young girl who yeah we come to learn is named Pluma. she She and Ventress have a little conversation here.
00:34:23
Speaker
Is this really necessary? None of this was my choice. I never asked to be ripped away from my home. From my family. You'll never know what it's like.
00:34:41
Speaker
I wish I didn't, but I do. You're just doing this for the money. It's just another job to you. You don't even care what's gonna happen to us once it's over.
00:34:54
Speaker
Hey, rookie, I need you in the back.
00:34:58
Speaker
You're right. You are just another job that I couldn't care less about. Don't move.
00:35:07
Speaker
Ooh. And since we heard him there, I forgot to put a note in here, and that is Young Boba Fett is being voiced by Daniel Logan, who played Young Boba Fett in Episode 2.
00:35:23
Speaker
he has If you haven't mentioned before, he has been playing him every time since his appearance parents in the end of season of two. So, you know, Daniel Logan, by all accounts, is a wonderful human being and... ah Is young Boba Fett.
00:35:45
Speaker
Yes. what What's great is if, by all accounts, if you see him and Tamora Morrison, who played Jango Fett, and in Book of Boba Fett, the adult Boba Fett, and all of the clones in live action, if you see them together at a con, they're like this wonderful double act.
00:36:10
Speaker
Yeah. Where they just play off of one another beautifully. And they they they they do the bit. They do bits. Yeah.
00:36:22
Speaker
And to to the point that there were some who were even hoping that given his age now. and roughly how old he would have been at that point in time that when they did Book of Boba Fett that rather than having Tamora Morrison well and when they also brought him back in The Mandalorian rather than having Tamora Morrison play Boba Fett you have Daniel Logan play Boba Fett mean that makes sense
00:36:58
Speaker
But, you know, that and that's not to complain. mean, you tomorrow Morrison did an awesome job. Oh, yeah. But and tomorrow he continues to do an amazing job. But, you know, there there were a lot of people who were like, hey, you know, let's let's just continue the trend. You know, Daniel Logan's been playing Boba Fett in live action and animation Since he was 10 years old.
00:37:23
Speaker
But I will basically, on the factors, like, I can't think of anyone else who could take up the helmet. if and yeah If, if, if, uh, tomorrow Morrison feels he cannot continue at the job.
00:37:36
Speaker
Yeah. It, it's gotta be Daniel Luke. He's, he's literally, it if it isn't him, I'll riot. It's like, he's, it's him. Yeah.
00:37:48
Speaker
Alright. So, at this point, ah Boba tries to protect the girl on instinct. Yes. yeah Well, instinct and, you know, his job is to yeah get her to point B safely.
00:38:05
Speaker
Meanwhile, Ventress... You're meant to think there's, like, Boba having a heart, but no, he's... she's a job. Yeah. As we sort of discussed prior. And meanwhile, Ventress fights the brother...
00:38:18
Speaker
But after doing so, Ventress wants the most money, and so she chokes Boba. Yep, they she's like, hey, you know, we're the only two that are left, so this this doesn't get split multiple ways, it's split two ways, and you're a kid, and I'm doing the heavy lifting,
00:38:42
Speaker
Specifically, i am lifting you off of the ground and choking you with my mind. Yes. So, I get most of the money.
00:38:54
Speaker
And she delivers the crate. She takes the payment. We find out what the... Yes. And since kind of this kind of goes in the middle of my note here, Lauren, you have a note. Go ahead. Tell us yeah the girl why the girl... The girl was meant to be the king's bride. Yeah, that's really icky. Yep.
00:39:19
Speaker
For kids. But Ventress takes the payment and she leaves. And they open up the crate. And she's got Boba tied up in the crate.
00:39:32
Speaker
Beautiful. And then she goes and... And the king is for some reason im not not interested it it in the Boba? He doesn't want the Boba? No, with the vo apparently not.
00:39:47
Speaker
And so she then takes Pluma to the Kagi Warriors, gets paid off by them... And lets her go. And so, right at this point, you're thinking, okay, she's got 100% of the payout that that the entire bounty hunter crew was going to get. This is basically how Jewel of Yavin went.
00:40:15
Speaker
Yeah. Plus, she's got whatever the Kagi Warriors gave her. But, she heads back to the ship, and actually...
00:40:28
Speaker
hands over the bounty, minus her cut, even handing over Boba's cut to the rest of the hunters. Now, granted, she's got her cut and she's got what the Kagi gave her, so she has a little extra...
00:40:45
Speaker
But there still was more honor among thieves than expecting out of this entire scene. Yes. Right. Well, I mean, did I mention that this is not the start of a redemption arc? Foreshadowing is a literary device.
00:40:57
Speaker
You're redeeming Ventress. Now you're taking some crazy pills. Uh-huh. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes, and we know that Star Wars would never conceive of redeeming its villains. Yep, nope. It's all light and dark. There's definitely no no transition between those two things ever at all. that If somebody's good, they're good. If somebody's bad, they're bad. it's just That's just how it is. It is how it is. once Once you head down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.
00:41:29
Speaker
oh
00:41:32
Speaker
Speaking of destinies, no, this is a horrible segue. Oh no. Hunt! On to the next episode. Brothers. Brothers. Season 4. Brothers. Episode 21.
00:41:44
Speaker
Savage Oppressed continues his quest to find Darth Maul.
Savage Opress and Darth Maul's Reunion
00:41:50
Speaker
Ooh, the co Clone Wars logo is red. Shit's about to get real. Sif's about to get real, you mean? Beautiful. Beautiful.
00:42:01
Speaker
So yes, at the start of this episode, there's a lot of sensing going on as Dooku can sense Savage Opress. How does it feel to say that name again after so long? oh beautiful.
00:42:16
Speaker
Meanwhile, Savage himself is doing some sensing as ah Mother Talzin is guiding him. And then Ventress senses Savage Opress. Everybody is doing some senses over here at the start of this episode. yes yes we have we even get an appearance by Anakin and Ahsoka.
00:42:38
Speaker
Sensing. yep ah Yeah. theyre They just, you know, they stop in at a space diner and they send stuff. But it's not Dexter Jetster's 50s diner. It's a different 50s diner. Mm-hmm.
00:42:51
Speaker
And so, Savage wants to ride to a junk planet.
00:42:58
Speaker
And for real, when the cargo pilot said that the junk planet was Lothal Miner, it sounded to me like he said Lothal Miner.
00:43:09
Speaker
And I did a double take because it's been so long since I've seen these episodes. And I thought, ooh, we're already making a connection that Rebels is going to pick up.
00:43:21
Speaker
years later when it actually exists. but And actually, no, because and actually in the newly established galaxy map, it's on like they're on the two opposite sides of the galaxy. of yeah yep well Well, it's Lotho Minor, not Lothal Minor. I just find it funny that when they finally put it in place, like, nope, they're on two opposite places. You cannot mistake them.
00:43:48
Speaker
And so Savage's magic amulet that Mother Talzin gave him that that's supposed to lead him to Maul seems to stop working. As they're getting into the planet, I think that's when you have something to talk to about the pilot and his situation.
00:44:04
Speaker
Well, hey hang on. First of all, he encounters a talking snake guy who offers him what he wants And to be his guide, which is not symbolic at all, is it?
00:44:18
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I believe it's the sneak that says, you're not going to kill me, are you? It's the pilot. Oh, sorry. Yeah. like Yeah, i we did skip around in timeline here a little bit, but it's all good. Yeah.
00:44:33
Speaker
well it The pilot does say, you're not going to kill me, are you? And Savage does not answer. At which point, he drops the pilot into the trash. Also, a good time to explain what Lofo Minor looks like.
00:44:46
Speaker
it's it's It's trash hell. It's trash hell. it's incident It's like, there's some pretty bad places in the Star Wars universe.
00:44:57
Speaker
This is probably one of the worst. Yeah, probably. If you combine hell with a junkyard and Australia from the Mad Max movies... It's that scene from the Brave Little Toaster where the cars are getting destroyed. Yes! It even has the big, walking, horrible monster junk things.
00:45:21
Speaker
That breathe fire... Yeah, like that scene in the Brave Little Toad. It is that. Yes, it's that. You hit the nail the head there. I did it. I found, I connected the dots.
00:45:35
Speaker
It's an entire scene. But it's an entire planet. Yes. And so, yes, then they have jumper encounter.
00:45:46
Speaker
Well, first they meet the snake, Morley. Yes, yes. Yep, and like I say, not symbolic at all. Talking snake guy offers him what he wants. Yep. But yeah, the Junker encounter is like, oh, are they like the Jawas?
00:46:01
Speaker
ah No, the Jawas are nicer than these guys.
00:46:08
Speaker
They're like savages. And then the rain happens. Yes, acid rain. And it requires shelter. Or else Savage Opress is gonna melt.
00:46:21
Speaker
And so they they they go into into Morley's little shelter and you things. Savage is big mad. He's like he's getting nowhere. He's big frustrated.
00:46:35
Speaker
He's very, very frustrated. And then Morley, the snake guy, drops Savage down a trap door to his master. And this master is this feral creature that Savage fights. Oh, good choice of words.
00:46:56
Speaker
Good choice of words for using feral there. And Savage fights it, and we can't really make it out. We can't see it clearly. Until we get a ah ah clear shot and it's Maul.
00:47:13
Speaker
It's him. and he's And he's got these big gnarly horns and he's got robot spider legs. And it's It's haunting and terrifying.
00:47:28
Speaker
It truly is like a, he truly looks like a monstrosity. Oh yeah. Like I can, I remember watching this as a kid being like, oh, we're going to see Darth Maul. It's going to be so, oh my gosh, what happened to him? he got cut in half.
00:47:47
Speaker
I can see that. I didn't expect the spider part. Mm-hmm.
00:47:54
Speaker
Yes. After helping his brother come to his senses, snake crush. you not really come to his senses. yeah he just you Morley comes down there and he's like, ha hey, master, I got, oh, oh you're you're you're alive. don't Don't kill me. I i didn't know. i didn't know this was who you were looking for. But I got you here right now.
00:48:19
Speaker
Yeah. Cruts, and then just throws him onto the fire as non-salam. ah Betsy did want me to mention that it's like, yeah, Morley and Maul have just been eating people is for like 10, 11 years.
00:48:34
Speaker
Yeah, that sounds about right. Yep. the just Anybody that drops by, literally, they eat. Yeah. But now...
00:48:46
Speaker
I would like us to just bask in the glory of the best thing to ever happen to Maul, and that is Sam Witwer, as he simultaneously demonstrates a wide range of talent, restraint, and choose scenery all at the same time.
00:49:18
Speaker
This is where you live? How long have you been here? Years and years and years. Through victory, my trains have broken the chains.
00:49:32
Speaker
The chains are the easy part. It's what goes on in here that's hard.
00:49:40
Speaker
You have been lost, my brother. Do you remember who you are? Where you came from? Always remember I am fear. Always remember I am hunter.
00:49:52
Speaker
Always remember am filth. Always remember I am nothing.
00:50:00
Speaker
Your legs. That scum. He took them from me. He took them. Who? Who took them?
00:50:15
Speaker
mercy is a lie, delusion of the people to think themselves strong. I ask not for mercy. What is it? Brother, what are you saying? Through the filth, through the grief, should I?
00:50:32
Speaker
Revenge. I must have revenge.
00:50:39
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Bravo. It's great. Bravo to Sam Witwer. And the way it does tie back to the very few lines that we did ever get from... This is the most Darth Maul has said on screen.
00:50:57
Speaker
Since his introduction. Yeah. In which one of his few lines was, last we shall have revenge. And...
00:51:10
Speaker
I remember when they let us know that Maul was coming back, when they announced that Maul was coming back. I was like, how?
00:51:21
Speaker
He was cut in half. That's stupid. and he fell in the hole. He was tossed to the center of the planet. that that That stupid why There's no way this is going to work.
00:51:38
Speaker
This is going to be so stupid. I have been wrong before. I'm not sure. There was a part me that was like, even when I was like, I was a kid watching this, it was like,
00:51:55
Speaker
This is cool, but it's like it's also like, wait, how does this make it? It does can't make any sense. it's Even in the back of my mind. But then I saw him on screen. I saw heard the performance, and I was like, yeah i don't care. He's here. He's here. This is cool. This is cool. This is cool. I'm into it.
00:52:14
Speaker
Oh yeah, it's great. That said, I will note that some it it feels like we we really need ah an Emperor's New Groove moment of, how did he get here? And then Kronk pulls up the map and is like, yeah, by all accounts, it doesn't make any sense.
00:52:30
Speaker
No, it's true. It's true. Because apparently, the going back to the Theed power room conundrum, the bottomless pit must lead to a garbage fill that had to have been picked up and then brought to Lofo Minor.
00:52:45
Speaker
I guess. But then how does the spider legs happen? But then how does the spider legs happen? And you can't say Morley did it. He has no arms!
00:52:58
Speaker
The Force. I mean, some someone or something there did it.
00:53:05
Speaker
Admittedly, I kind of just assumed that he he used the Force to will it together. i guess. It's not un-premented. And that fits, it would still fit with his mental state at the time. Yeah. And there's spider legs, too. Yes.
00:53:24
Speaker
because The fact that he sees himself as filth, like an insect groveling and in the husks. hey no yeah around Spiders are arachnids, not insects.
00:53:36
Speaker
and you to We can see from his mental state right now, quote Hank Hill, that boy ain't right. yeah and
00:53:48
Speaker
Very much as I think you have a good way of of realizing it. Yep. And wasting no time, Yoda senses that Maul is alive. Why hasn't he sensed this over the past 10 years? I don't know.
00:54:05
Speaker
And he tells Obi-Wan, and Obi-Wan, oh, be well ho Darth Maul. By the way, who told them Maul's name anyway? And so we end the episode as it began, with more people sensing more things.
00:54:20
Speaker
Yes. That takes us into the final episode of the arc and the season. Revenge. Season 4, episode 22. We got another red title. I wonder if that's going to be a theme going forward. yeah Savage and Darth Maul unite to seek revenge against Obi-Wan. And yes, the logo is still red, so shit is still real.
00:54:46
Speaker
Yes, we open up with a Darth Maul panic attack. Yep, and Savage takes Nutty Bucket's Maul back to Dathomir, and Mother Talzin, who is still alive, Yes.
00:54:59
Speaker
That wasn't a Force ghost, that was just a Force projection, I guess. Yeah, Mother Talzin's whole deal is still a thing. Mother Talzin's whole deal is, I'm dead, no I'm not.
00:55:15
Speaker
You thought I was. Well, at least I thought made Avengers think so. So she could leave, but get off my lawn. She's the Doctor Doom of the Star Wars universe. But Mother Talzin puts Maul- Peter in Doomsday.
00:55:29
Speaker
Mother Talzin will return in Avengers Doomsday. She's got Talzin bots to take her death. But she puts Maul through a totally not painful at all ritual. that trims his horns down, restores his faculties. I'm not saying sanity because he's still not sane, but he's lucid.
00:55:53
Speaker
I do wish if I went to a therapist, they could just reach in and just take all like like the... like the darkness is out of out of my brain and just... just... get out of there.
00:56:04
Speaker
Don't worry, Nick. I'll eviscerate your darkness. And she trims down his spider legs to backwards, like, combo goat-chicken legs. And once again, we're not leaning into any symbolism at all here.
00:56:21
Speaker
Yes, yes, of course. Kind of has Rebus-like legs, but taller. Yes.
00:56:28
Speaker
Which then kind of makes you wonder, was Talzin involved in the creation of Cyborg Grievous?
00:56:40
Speaker
Huh. Inquiring minds want to know.
00:56:46
Speaker
But just how did mall survive, let me check my notes here, being cut in half at the waist?
00:56:57
Speaker
Uh, Doomguy style. He's too angry to die. course I've survived.
00:57:17
Speaker
My hatred kept my spirit intact even though my body was not. Yet I was lost and became a rabid animal. And such is how you found me, brother.
00:57:28
Speaker
Discarded. Forgotten. I have missed so much. The Force feels out of balance.
00:57:40
Speaker
Yes, there is conflict. The Clone Wars. yes. it began without me. You can begin again, brother.
00:57:59
Speaker
Being in the galaxy once, I was destined to become so much more. But I was robbed of their destiny by the Jedi, by Obi-Wan Kenobi.
00:58:12
Speaker
Then you must have your revenge, my brother. Yes, we shall start with revenge.
00:58:22
Speaker
One, there's so much good in this this monologue. There's so much good in it. Because there's so much clues and things. But first, like to answer the previous question you had, he's just too angry to die.
00:58:35
Speaker
Yep. yeah He's good guy. And I like you. original When we originally see this, we don't think much of him saying, we'll start with revenge.
00:58:50
Speaker
And we now know, you know, thanks to years and years of additional media, that, yeah, he had other plans in mind. But yeah, he's is focused on, yes, revenge, but that's ah that's like top of the list. It's a very long list afterwards. Oh boy. Yes.
00:59:12
Speaker
And... But also, he's talking about even the subtle implications of him saying so when Savaz's name drops the show, the Clone Wars, it's like, oh, it's begun.
00:59:26
Speaker
and I missed it. He's like, something like this was going to happen, if not the plan.
00:59:37
Speaker
Yeah, I'm sure that this was the intention. This is what he was actively working towards at that time. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that this isn't something that Sidious just came up with on the spur of the moment.
00:59:52
Speaker
It had been in the planning stages for a minimum of 10 years before it started. So it is fascinating that Maul was already knowing that this was the plan well before Dooku got involved with the plan.
01:00:12
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I mean, Dooku was involved in the plan because, well, there was no Maul. Yes. yeah you Sidious didn't know that Maul was you know chillin chilling on a junk planet, eating people with spider legs.
01:00:30
Speaker
i mean Maybe he Maybe he sensed Maul, but he was like, eh, he messed up. Never mind. He's got spider legs now. That's not cool. Yeah, it's very cool. that yeah That's because Sidious is wrong. Yeah, I mean, know we know how Sidious likes his cyborgs.
01:00:51
Speaker
And they they don't have spider legs. I mean, Grievous does kind of do a spider walk thing. I was really referring to Vader, but you know. Yeah. yeah But Maul and Savage go to a planet you off the beaten path Specifically so they can draw some attention. And Maul just up and kills a bunch of civilians on Hollow so that he can call Obi-Wan out.
01:01:27
Speaker
Oh, and I do love the line that he says here. Savaz even says, like, in a galaxy... Maul's like, in a galaxy in conflict, is only one thing that will get the attention of the Jedi. And they're landing on this out-of-the-beaten planet, so children are running because they're assuming it's a supply ship.
01:01:46
Speaker
it it has a it has it's It's bringing trade goods. And Maul says, the slaughter of the innocent. Yep, they heavily imply that before the scene where he kills people on camera, that he offed those kids.
01:02:06
Speaker
That implication is heavily there. Yep. It's like, Zavaz and Maul are not playing around in this episode.
01:02:19
Speaker
We see the true viciousness of Maul. And ultimately, Kenobi goes alone, but Yoda doesn't think he'll be truly alone.
01:02:31
Speaker
Is everyone is ever anyone ever really truly alone? Perhaps as long as they have friends. Well, Yoda, there's like there' like five of you. Several of you are Jedi Masters. You you you could also go to take down this apparently revived Sith Lord and his super powerful brother.
01:02:50
Speaker
i don't think you're doing anything right now, Yoda. Couldn't you help him? i mean, Mace Windu's standing right there and he's like, yeah, we're we're all gonna go. And Yoda's like,
01:03:01
Speaker
Nope, just him. But he won't be alone. Yes. like Because we're gonna go after with him? No.
01:03:11
Speaker
but But he won't be alone. so we'll send Anakin? No.
01:03:20
Speaker
And as if on cue... In a cantina somewhere, we see a bunch of bounty hunters checking the bounty boards, and they're impressed by the one million credit bounty on Savage Opress, which one of them pronounces as savage rather than savage.
01:03:42
Speaker
ah but Totally. the truth and They just don't know how to pronounce it. Ventress pushes through them and tells them, you know don't even think about it, and she takes the bounty herself. At which point, I just want to say, hey Nick, when she pulls the bounty off of the board into that little handheld unit, are we looking at what Filoni and Favreau will later evolve into the bounty pucks on the Mandalorians?
01:04:15
Speaker
Oh, it looks exactly what what ah they what he drops in front sort of the the blue guy in the first episode of The Mandalorian. it's It's directly the same type type of floatingga floating a wanted headshot.
01:04:32
Speaker
and so it's very much one is And it very much fits the idea how to describe it describes. It's like you go up, but you sort of fill the puck with with the bounty information.
01:04:45
Speaker
And Obi-Wan gets to the planet. And it's wrecked. It's wrecked and terrible. It's wrecked, and there's even a poor little astromech that just keeps crashing himself into the side of a building over and over again. And I felt so bad for the little astromech.
01:05:02
Speaker
But it really is kind of a disturbing scene of town basically on fire. And that droid is sort of damaged, but not destroyed, but like either try into trying to but fulfill its function and flee, or flee, or get like trying to stop the pain.
01:05:22
Speaker
And all of this just to draw Obi-Wan. Mm-hmm. they drew Obi-Wan all right. Now, they start fighting, and seeing Savage fight Obi-Wan, and with Clancy Brown voicing him,
01:05:39
Speaker
I just had this brief flash of the Kurgan from Highlander. Oh, I've always had that thought from from Highlander, because he's always... The Kurgan is basically just... He's brute force. He's big strength. And, well... Savaz.
01:05:55
Speaker
Yes. Yep. Yes, they the the brothers, they work together. They use their bros
Ventress and Obi-Wan's Alliance
01:06:03
Speaker
moves. And they are the Malio brothers.
01:06:07
Speaker
Oh, that hurt. No, that was great. that's desperate no don't Don't listen to the hater. was gold so Sometimes her puns that are painful are the best ones. That hurt. yeah But I do think that it's fun that despite everything, Obi-Wan just keeps talking trash to Maul.
01:06:34
Speaker
And then Ventress shows up and she starts talking trash to both Maul and Savage. And then at that point, she and Obi-Wan, they just need to get a room. Kenobi, don't tell me someone's finally knocked the fight out of you.
01:06:53
Speaker
Wake up!
01:06:58
Speaker
Ventress? It looks like I'm here to rescue you. When did you become the good guy? Don't insult me. Oh, what a lovely sight to wake up to.
01:07:09
Speaker
Don't flatter yourself, Kenobi. You've never been much to look at, especially now. Incredible. I mean, dead when when they have encountered each other before, they've been very flirty. It's always been that sort of flirty vamping, but this...
01:07:29
Speaker
Well, now now that she is totally not on a redemption arc... Foreshadowing is a literary device. theyve They've amped it up just a little bit. Yes.
01:07:42
Speaker
Although, spoiler alert, and I say this because you will not see it in the Clone Wars series. This is that arc that was turned into a book, Lauren.
01:07:53
Speaker
but Well, we'll see part of it at some point. She does not end up with Obi-Wan. Let me not imagine. does end up falling for a Jedi.
01:08:04
Speaker
oh interesting.
01:08:09
Speaker
So, yeah, she... So that's going to end terribly ah in the imminent future. Yes. Yes. Yes. um But we do get to see... Not in the way that you think.
01:08:22
Speaker
Oh, okay. But we do get to see a ton of red lightsabers in this scene. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And so huge fight begins here. um During the fight, Maul just keeps pushing Obi-Wan's buttons by invoking his killing Qui-Gon in Phantom Menace.
01:08:43
Speaker
And it it does it it succeeds in pushing his buttons and pissing him off and making Obi-Wan act out of anger. Yep.
01:08:54
Speaker
And Obi-Wan and Ventress escape by detaching the cargo ship's cockpit, which apparently can be its own little independent escape ship. and Also, so I do love this ship. It's called a Turtle Cargo Hauler because it lands like a turtle.
01:09:14
Speaker
But but like what i it's not the true turtle ship. Anyone who's familiar with the role-playing games knows the true turtle ship. Yeah. but as I say this thing is cute for for for a bullcaller.
01:09:29
Speaker
But Maul chooses to bide his time and get his revenge when it suits him, and he's counting on the Jedi coming after them. He'll get him next time.
01:09:45
Speaker
And with that, we close out Season 4 of Clone Wars. And quite the season finale it was. Yes, it it was a big season finale. For a big season overall. Yes. Yeah.
01:10:01
Speaker
So, where are you now on on on your take on Clone Wars, Lauren? Well, let's see. you for For these particular episodes, you know, i we've touched upon this before, but the start of Clone Wars made it seem like Ventress was going to be, like, a big deal. Like, she was going to be a regularly occurring antagonist throughout the series.
01:10:26
Speaker
And then she just sort of didn't do that for the most part. She she kind of quit being a Sith fairly early on, and she just generally didn't show up very often.
01:10:39
Speaker
So the fact that she is suddenly having a redemption arc, it's kind of like the first arc that she's having. It's true.
01:10:50
Speaker
Her arc, she hasn't had very much... arc as a villain. like we see We've seen we see Grievous have like episodes and arcs where he's the bad guy. well we bet let's give Let's give a little historical context though, Nick. true This is before the Disney buyout.
01:11:12
Speaker
So the expanded universe, the EU, was still canon until and unless contradicted on screen. So she hadn't had many villain arcs on screen, but she was heavily used in the Clone Wars era comics. I see. the time And was introduced in the Jenny Tarkovsky Clone Wars micro series. Yes, there is that too.
01:11:44
Speaker
So she did have heavy use as a villain, just not in this series. And the jury is, is out. I mean, technically speaking, all of those stories that she was in in the old comics are now out the window.
01:12:08
Speaker
Yeah. Um, Since you are are knowledgeable on comics, think of the EU and the current canon as pre-crisis and post-crisis. Yes, yes. I definitely got that.
01:12:25
Speaker
And so all of those stories happened in the pre-crisis stuff. And some of the broad strokes of some of it may or may not have happened.
01:12:38
Speaker
Because they they've made oblique references to some of them here and there. For instance, there's a character... Well, we saw him in the Tartakovsky micro-series. Dirge, the great big regenerating bounty hunter.
01:12:57
Speaker
Ah, yes, him. He appeared in a lot of the comics. He was ah a fairly... I wouldn't say a lot. But he appeared in some of the comics. He was a pretty rich reoccurring.
01:13:09
Speaker
But he didn't show up using the terminology we've we' just well, using the terminology that we've just adopted. He didn't show up post-crisis until a couple of years ago and then he showed up in original trilogy timeline.
01:13:30
Speaker
Oh, okay. Now, they insinuated that he was around during the Clone Wars as well But we don't know which, if any, of those Clone Wars stories count.
01:13:45
Speaker
Which is interesting because he and Ventress sort of were a double act for some of those. Yeah. So, we we have, at the time that these stories were airing,
01:14:00
Speaker
a lot of us did have that context ah that we could mentally fill in the blanks because we didn't necessarily notice, yeah, we haven't seen much of Ventress in this series, and now she's getting a redemption arc, but we had seen her being Really bad.
01:14:18
Speaker
really burn you know consistently in print. Yes. And Canon has sort of massaged that by giving it us some more of that or least context for some of that in some other stuff that's becoming out.
01:14:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So with, without that context though, just watching this show. Sure. Sure. Sure. Just wanted to explain to you where we were coming from and how future people may be watching. But yeah, we agree with you completely the on what you're saying. Yeah. Just, just watching the show. It definitely gives a softer version of Ventress because like she isn't the antagonist very often. Whenever she is the antagonist, she's pretty much always been focused on fighting the Jedi specifically.
01:15:04
Speaker
who are like opponents that can actually fight back. Like if she's, you know if she's supposed to be an antagonist on the level of Darth Maul killing civilians in this last episode, if she's, if she's supposed to be equivalent to him in evilness, that isn't present in the Ventress that we see in this animated series. And even at her most evil, like Maul jumps up to the villain of the series in this episode alone. Yeah.
01:15:35
Speaker
So, like, yeah. Because, like, yeah, they're like she she gets a couple times where she's fighting Jedi, and then she gets betrayed by Dooku, and she leaves. And the stuff that she does with the Nightsisters after that, she's basically fighting Dooku, or, the you know, the Sith constantly after that.
01:15:56
Speaker
So her degree of villainy is substantially lowered by that. Which hurts the redemption arc element. It's like... She's not as bad.
01:16:08
Speaker
there There isn't as much that's needed to redeem within this complex. There's at least not enough knowledge of her like seeing how bad she is and where she can pivot.
01:16:21
Speaker
We saw her, she's bad, but not enough meat on the hook to be like, okay, now I want to see her pivot. Mm-hmm. At the same time, though, I did generally enjoy these episodes.
01:16:33
Speaker
You know, there's even even with a weaker possible buildup, the the actual episodes as shown are still very off cool. It was it was still really great seeing the Nightsisters in action.
01:16:47
Speaker
That was really cool. Seeing their full sort of might and like the zombie thing caught everyone off guard because no one ever saw that coming. Yes. Because they had a new power done from the Night Sisters and the Force in general. So that was fascinating and frightening. Absolutely. The Train Heist episode was really cool. It had really cool environment. It had cool action sequences. It shows, know, Ventress actually doing the right thing for once, essentially. We got to see bounty hunters doing bounty hunters. It was a mix of action on top of just high-quality action. Oh, yes.
01:17:23
Speaker
And, of course, we got to see the Malio brothers. Exactly. they are They are set up as, like, for a season finale, they are set up firmly as a big threat to go and thing to push the series forward it's great definitely get you get the you get that great end of season momentum it's like okay how are we going to deal with both of them and fun little aside here so as the story goes
01:17:55
Speaker
Maul coming back was one of those...
Maul's Return and Impact
01:17:58
Speaker
You've heard Nick and I talk about the behind-the-scenes stuff that that we've read about multiple times as we've done Clone Watch.
01:18:06
Speaker
And you've heard us talk about times that George Lucas called Dave Filoni into his office and said, you know, like, okay, I want to do a three-part episode that goes into the origins and nature of the Force. Yes.
01:18:20
Speaker
And Filoni's like... What? You want to do what? So imagine if you will, Dave Filoti gets called into George Lucas's office. He's like, yeah, I want to bring back Darth Maul.
01:18:39
Speaker
George, he's dead. Yeah, but I want to bring him back. George, he was cut in half and thrown down a bottomless pit. But I want to bring him back. Yeah. Yeah. it's It's like I said earlier, Krog bringing down the map and going, it just doesn't make any sense.
01:18:55
Speaker
with it George says, you can do it. a Get my daughter in on this. She has an idea. just Just figure it out.
01:19:06
Speaker
And then they did. i and And I mentioned toa what my reaction was. Nick mentioned what his reaction was. And they were not isolated reactions.
01:19:18
Speaker
Oh, like when that where they first said that, it's like the initial pitch was like, oh, Savazo Press, brother of Darth Maul. Darth Maul like, okay. But then at the end of that arc, it's like, no, we're going to actually bring back Darth Maul too.
01:19:32
Speaker
It's like, That was when I was like, what? with the We spent so much time on building Safaz and now you're going to bring back Darth Maul as well? How could that work? Also, wait a second, real quick. is it we we We constantly call him Maul. Is he technically still Darth Maul?
01:19:52
Speaker
No. No. Okay, so he is just Maul Maul is a name. He's just Maul. he He lost the Darth title. Yes, because there's only the only two there can be of the Sith.
01:20:06
Speaker
And the two Sith Lords currently are Darth Sidious and Darth Tyranus. Makes sense. and And so, yeah, they he's not a Darth any longer.
01:20:18
Speaker
And I don't remember where it is. isn't there Isn't there some point where that's actually mentioned and addressed on screen, Nick?
01:20:30
Speaker
ah Yes, that's in Rebels. Oh, okay. He actually thought actually he says he's says he says he says not Darth, merely Maul.
01:20:47
Speaker
Also, I think we talked about this once, Nick, but Maul was like, Maul was always his name. Even when he became a Sith, he just kept the name, which I don't think is normal, but you know I guess it's like, Maul's a fine Sith name in the first place.
01:21:04
Speaker
Well, so, kind of. going going into, into some of the character lore, unlike most Sith apprentices who are, are found and then brought in when they're, when they're kind of older, he was brought in by Palpatine to train as a kid, kind of ah a Jedi youngling. Uh, you know, he, this, this isn't shown on the series, so I'm not yeah spoiling anything coming, uh,
01:21:36
Speaker
Yeah, Sidious went to Dathomir and went to Mother Talzin and said, I need a kid.
01:21:44
Speaker
And Mother Talzin goes, here you go. Have mine. Nice. And we're not mincing words. Mother Talzin is actually Darth Maul's mom.
01:21:58
Speaker
Oh, okay. this isn't This is one of those metaphorical moments. No, no. no All right. She is mother of the coven of the Nightsisters, but is also Darth Maul's mom.
01:22:14
Speaker
Gotcha.
01:22:16
Speaker
Yep. And so, yeah, she's like, here, have mine. and it And it kind of sealed a a little pact between the Nightsisters and Sidious that, yeah, he just up and broke by... a by behind the scenes, we presume, having Dooku wipe them out.
01:22:38
Speaker
Yes. All of them. Yes. But yeah, there's a lot more complicated things that are be going on with that, lore-wise, connectivity-wise.
01:22:51
Speaker
think that does get through well. It's just incredible that Maul is here. Yes. Again, like... When this happened, this was this was the biggest news in the Star Wars community. People were talking about this.
01:23:05
Speaker
In the these episodes, we couldn't get enough of them. The and threats to get to the next link for season was everyone night on pins and needles waiting for news.
01:23:19
Speaker
And I definitely want to give all of the creators credit where it's due because They made it work. Oh, yeah.
01:23:31
Speaker
You know, we we were so... Because of the material that we got and that we're going to be getting to in Season 5, and that we even got further down the line when we didn't even know that any of that was coming...
01:23:48
Speaker
We got such good material that we didn't care about the hand wavy excuse to appease George Lucas's whim of bringing back Maul.
01:24:01
Speaker
yeah It doesn't matter. It's one of those cases that and usually like I'd say like, well, I would like to know the law. I don't care what the law reason is. Darth Maul is back in here.
01:24:12
Speaker
He was just so angry. He survived. It doesn't matter. He's here now. He's part of the story. And it's going to be a big good thing. Beautiful.
01:24:24
Speaker
And even with all of that excellent writing and storytelling that they gave us that we didn't care, the secret sauce is Sam Witwer.
01:24:37
Speaker
Yeah. I don't think it. if you If you ever watch any interviews with him about his work on Star Wars, yeah various Star Wars projects... He's a light. He's a light in general.
01:24:52
Speaker
Nice. Yeah, he he's wonderful. He's a nerd. He is a fan. and He outclasses a nerd to Dave Filoni himself.
01:25:06
Speaker
Yeah, there there is there's a video out there where he talks about how... one time, don't even remember what the episode was. it was it was it was a it was the start of the Moors arc where he, Sam Whippert also played the son in the, where the Free Force Gods episodes.
01:25:27
Speaker
Ah, yes. Actually, now that I think about it, I think we played that interview with Sam. He's supposed to be
01:25:36
Speaker
he's supposed to be She's reading through the script and it's the scene where the son projects a vision of Smee, Anakin's... And Anakin says, I want you to meet my wife. i wit oh I have a wife. I wish you'd met her.
01:25:54
Speaker
Yeah. And... is that wayward This is like his first day on the dock. It'd be like, ah hey, that that's not true. They met. you did they She did meet her.
01:26:07
Speaker
She did meet her. In episode one. Phantom Menace. And everybody in the studio turned, you know Ashley Eckstein turned and is like, oh, oh you're in trouble.
01:26:21
Speaker
Oh, no. You don't could you you don't pick correct Dave Filoni. and And Dave Filoni was like, oh my God, you're right.
01:26:32
Speaker
yes But he he is a fan. He is a he is passionate about Star Wars. And so he brings that passion to it. And you can watch... He brings Dark Ball, a character who is...
01:26:53
Speaker
There's no disrespect to Ray Park, but he had nothing to do in his lines. Yeah. he he the The original Darth Maul part was not not a deep part, ultimately. there It wasn't a deep part.
01:27:08
Speaker
Well, and his lines were dubbed. Oh, I see. his His lines were dubbed by ah Peter, I'm going to mangle his last name, Stefanowicz. Yeah. um he hit The voice, the original voice of Darth Maul is one of the Nova Corps in the first Guardians of the Galaxy movie. Oh, okay, neat.
01:27:31
Speaker
But basically, like Sam Witwer creates the character out from the understanding of Darth Maul, and it is... you will, and we've just hit the bare minimum of him now. Yes.
01:27:48
Speaker
You are going to find him incredibly fascinating. I imagine so. i'm I'm definitely looking forward to the next season, which, by the way, I haven't seen the next season yet. Nick and I stopped watching after this episode because we had gotten like six months ahead.
01:28:02
Speaker
Yep. It's been six months since I last watched these episodes. But this week, Nick and I are going to watch more episodes. And we have to skip the first one because that doesn't actually take place chronologically.
01:28:16
Speaker
Yeah! um And the other thing that I'm looking forward to is we have a Maul animated series coming up.
01:28:29
Speaker
oh A Maul animated series that is set in between the timeline of... Clone Wars slash the Bad Batch and Rebels.
01:28:44
Speaker
I see. which It's prose which is a very fertile time, especially with the rumors that's going off of some original pitches that Lucas had.
01:28:56
Speaker
And it's, you know, no spoilers. Well, kind of spoilers here. you know, we, we We know from other Star Wars media that Maul had his fingers in some some criminal syndicates during that time frame.
01:29:14
Speaker
And this series is ostensibly going to be about him building that. Interesting. Which will very interesting. Which will be some interesting cameos, interesting appearances. It's going to be interesting. interesting.
01:29:31
Speaker
But is Savage Opress going to be there? We can't spoil that. Oh, okay. And it will be Sam Witwer voicing Maul because no one would have it any other way.
01:29:45
Speaker
Yeah. But yes. ah i think I think that is my final thoughts on this set of episodes, though. Definitely looking forward to the next season. Same here. It's a strong... Everything that we've said, basically, this is...
01:30:01
Speaker
An excellent season finale in that you feel the momentum going forward. Maul is here with his brother and that's going to be a major threat. The Clone Wars has changed.
01:30:16
Speaker
And with that, since that's our final thought, we do want to thank you for joining us on Casual Nerdity and for another episode of Clone Watch.
01:30:28
Speaker
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01:30:41
Speaker
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01:31:05
Speaker
No, we don't. don't We need mercs. We need to start doing mercs. We'll figure something out. We'll make a Malio Brothers t-shirt. Yes. But we we want all of those algorithms out there getting more eyes on the show.
01:31:23
Speaker
So thanks for joining us. and We hope that you will join us next time. And until then, so long. Bye-bye. This has been Casual Nerdity.
01:31:37
Speaker
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