Clone Watch - Episode 19

Transcript

Speaker: Casual Nerdity is a podcast celebrating and discussing the pop culture that we love. Movies, TVs, comics, books, games, you name it. Ari missed to talk about the good, what worked, and yeah, sometimes what didn't.

Speaker: All with an eye towards building up, not tearing down. Thanks for joining us.

Speaker: Welcome back to Casual Nerdity's Clone Watch. This is episode 19 of Clone Watch. it It seems like many, many more, but it's like... Because we're we're already like half going to be halfway through season two, or four.

Speaker: Halfway through season four when we're done with this. Yeah. That's like... go one more four season

Speaker: It's craziness. but and then the rate And then the real ah hard episodes are going to happen. Oh boy. But... For those tuning in for the first time, i am Daryl.

Speaker: I'm Nick Lauren. And I'm the person they can't get rid of. I'm Betsy. Yes, we are going to forego most of our usual intro chit-chat this episode because we've got some pretty intense episodes to go over.

Speaker: And with Betsy back, well, as usual, she's bringing some thoughts with her. Sorry, not sorry. Well, actually, I'm a little sorry because I kept everyone waiting until the last minute.

Speaker: See, they also have some strong feelings. A couple of them, yes. What? No, I would never. And we might end up cutting the episode into two as a result. ah We're going to try to get through all four parts of the Umbara arc in a single episode.

Speaker: Yeah, my favorite part of this is that, Daryl, you wrote this into the notes before I even started rewatching the first episode in the arc, less typing any of my thoughts. Yes, I did indeed. But honestly, I'm kind of glad that you're here with your walls text.

Speaker: ah Because these are some really gripping episodes. And while I was watching for the show, i kept getting wrapped up in watching them and constantly had to keep reminding myself, oh, yeah I should probably be taking notes, huh?

Speaker: Yeah, why do you think it took me two hours to get through like 20 minutes of television? But really quickly, though, just in case this is someone's first time listening to one of our Clone Watch episodes, in which case, again, welcome.

Speaker: Let's explain what we're doing here. We are currently doing complete timeline order rewatch. You may now... Sorry, Darrell. Well, I mean, you at this point, it doesn't really matter.

Speaker: but with our good friend, Lauren, who has not experienced Star Wars or Clone Wars. and Indeed. we We did discuss a little bit after a recent ah events about... But you can still watch it on Disney+, plus using StarWars.com as a guide.

Speaker: There are also the official DVD releases that you can find elsewhere. And there's also... other means of way but you'd have to ask honda or naka about that i'm sure we have a torrent of questions about how to find those but we don't have time for that yes obviously but yeah we are considering whether or not we want to you basically do an episode talking about ethical access to la media yeah

Speaker: but that' But that's out of this purview, and we do not have time for that. Right. Not if I'm even going for sure. But now let's buckle in as we take a look at Darkness on Umbara, Season 4, Episode 7, The General, Season 4, Episode 8, Plan of Descent, Season 4, Episode 9, and Carnage of Krell, Season 4, Episode 10.

Speaker: So first up, we have Darkness on Umbara, Season 4, Episode 7, with the incredibly detailed description of Rex and his clone troopers are led into a difficult mission. hey

Speaker: Understatement of the millennia. Now, we start with the newsreel telling us that the Republic has broken broken through a separatist blockade and are trying to take control of the planet Umbara.

Speaker: Oh yeah, gotta claim that shadowy world.

Speaker: the previews arcs we are back to putting the wars back into the Clone Wars no surprise which war this particular arc is referencing but let's just focus on checking back on the boys of the 501st Platoon I mean the 501st Clone Battalion as they enter into the heart of darkness on Umbara hey Nick if there was going to be an apocalypse when would it happen Tomorrow?

Speaker: Uh, now. Now? Okay. Yeah, I guess now sounds good. What kind of jacket do you recommend wearing for an apocalypse now? Recommend full or half?

Speaker: Oh, definitely definitely full laminate armor. Not a full metal jacket?

Speaker: Oh, that's a bit too primitive. Okay. Is your firearm your friend? There are many like it, but this one is yours. But think you have something say about that. Well, first just want to call out that, you know, we get a brief shot of my daughter and her gal pal.

Speaker: Yeah, gal pal. Barris. In a space dog fight. This doesn't really have much of anything to do with the rest of the episode. I just need everyone to know that my darling daughter is helping us up in space and she's doing a great job. They grow fast. Especially when they're, you know child soldiers.

Speaker: Yeah, yeah, that'll do it. Fighting alongside their and best friend. Best friend. Platonic friend. Uh-huh. And also, Soda shows that she's Anakin's Padawan and that she's grown as a Starfighter pilot to the point where she's leading Starfighter missions on her own.

Speaker: With her gal pal, of course. Yes. Just gals being pals. Just like in Toho. Exactly. But anyway, then we cut to Obes and Annie, or giving a mission briefing, and look who's there! I mean, of course we have all of Torn Company, because why wouldn't we have a full squad of the 501st Best Boys?

Speaker: And then we've got Cody standing right next to Obi-Wan, and probably also checking Obi-Wan's belt every 10 seconds to make sure his lightsaber is still there, because let's be real, that's like 49% of his job as commander. And then, who is that behind Cody, the only other member of the 212th present for this briefing, who doesn't say a single word the whole time, but still stands conspicuously in frame where we can see him?

Speaker: Who I haven't yelled about since the Ryloth arc when he accidentally adopted child and convinced his partner into reluctant co-fatherhood. But I'm sure it's fine, Waxer is just there for funsies, nothing to worry about.

Speaker: Foreshadowing is a literary device, yeah darryl i you have the quote now it's a it's it says it's a it's a fan sir it's not that deep yeah right of course okay but anyway let's take a brief moment to talk about this opening battle yeah brief let's go with that Anakin is charging in right next to Rex, and the two are yelling back and forth. like Rex calls out that there's a good strategic position ahead, and then Annie's immediately like, Awesome! We can totally set up there!

Speaker: Good call, Rex! I truly value your input and expertise! Everyone's working together, and Annie orders the troops to stay close to him in case of traps, because he wants to look out for them and keep them safe!

Speaker: And then they set up on the ridge and Annie insists that everyone take a break before they move down. And then he and Rex briefly reminisce, but then they get ambushed. Rex informs Anakin that he called it an airstrike.

Speaker: You know, as in he already did it without asking his general for permission or orders or even saying anything beforehand. then tells Anakin where they should go next.

Speaker: And Anakin again is just like, great idea and good thinking on that airstrike. I'm so lucky to have a strong, smart, capable captain like you, Rex. Please continue to take initiative and do what you think is best because I trust you completely. The airstrike happens and, well, I do love the smell of proton bombs in the morning or the perpetual darkness of Umbara. And here Here comes the general!

Speaker: Nah, he doesn't deserve that. It's just Krell. Who I definitely wasn't staring daggers at through my laptop screen and attempting to set on fire with my mind. No clue why you're talking. No clue what you're talking about.

Speaker: Oh, and of course he's just here. Best of news! Yes, yes he is. And here is the news. General Krell's here? Something big must be going on.

Speaker: Master Krell! My thanks for the air support. Indeed, General Skywalker. The locals have proven to be more resourceful than we anticipated. But that's not the reason for your visit.

Speaker: No. The Council has ordered you back to Coruscant, effective immediately. what look Why? I'm afraid a request was made by the Supreme Chancellor, and the Council obliged.

Speaker: That is all they would tell me. like I can't just leave my men. I'll be taking over in the interim. Don't worry about a thing, sir. We'll have this city under Republic control by the time you're back.

Speaker: Master Krell, this is Rex, my first in command. You won't find a finer or more loyal trooper anywhere. Good to hear that. I wish you well, Skywalker.

Speaker: And just, again, I want to talk about Anakin's relationship with his men. Like, he completely balks at leaving, not because he's abandoning the battle, or because he's worried about not being there to lead, or because he really doesn't want to go help Papa Palpatine.

Speaker: He just can't stand the idea of abandoning his men and leaving them behind to fight and die while he escapes some cushy protection detail. It's almost like they're shining a spotlight on how Anakin and a lot of the other Jedi treat the co clones.

Speaker: Again, it's like poetry. It's sort of, they rhyme. ha ha And I mean, you know, as when Rex insists that they'll be fine, and it can just immediately start singing to the Captain praises, and like, I know fuck all about military structure, but is calling someone your first in command a typical thing?

Speaker: Because I've only ever heard people say, like, second in command, or you know, some number down the line. So, maybe it's... There are a lot of, like, colloquial things about, like, like as I've read since earlier, like right hand man, your're you your first mate, everyone, there like there's tons of things to deny who you like. That's the person who's next in line.

Speaker: But like that's phrase first in command. Oh yeah, it's meant it's it's first in command is just a colloquial term. iss like It's meant to be like, yeah, we are close. like There could be someone above them. It's like, no, no, you defer to him.

Speaker: You defer to him. Hmm. Interesting. I like that.

Speaker: Just, you know, something that stuck out to me. Foreshadowing is a literary device. sir But also, sidebar, just want to casually point out that it was Palpy specifically who called Anakin away who insisted on him coming back to Coruscant and therefore leaving the 501st with Prell.

Speaker: I mean, who knows? Maybe it's just a coincidence, but I'm just saying. Oh, and also because I forgot to put this in there the first time around. Gee, I sure hope that Palpatine's calling him back for something normal and that's, you know, not at all significant and going to destroy Anakin and, you know, cause a whole bunch of problems. I mean, I'm sure it's fine. We're all fine here. Yeah, everything's everything's perfect. So...

Speaker: so i'm sure that I'm sure that we can, you know, trust him with everything. After all, that's why he's in charge. He's the chancellor. He's the chancellor. think the specific episodes that are going to come later, I don't know what you're talking about. And Anakin is the chancellor's right-hand man. Yeah, roll that clip again. Would he have been elected chancellor if he didn't have everyone's best interests at heart?

Speaker: Daryl, can you roll that clip again? Foreshadowing is a literary device. Thank you. know hey But, you know, the the show will get there when it gets there. Yeah. So for now, we have a different clip. Yep. So we have Krell and Rex, you know, their their first real interaction.

Speaker: Your reputation precedes you, General. It is an honor to be serving you. I find it very interesting, Captain, that you are able to recognize the value of honor for a clone.

Speaker: Stand at attention when I address you.

Speaker: Your flattery is duly noted, but it will not be rewarded. There's a reason my command is so effective, and it's because I do things by the book, and that includes protocol.

Speaker: Have all platoons ready to move out immediately. That is all.

Speaker: Yeah, you can't see it because we don't have anything on camera, but I am very much clenching my fists right now. Well, and... I'm pretty sure that if we if we had you on camera, did the we the audience would be upset and pretty sure that they would think that you were having a heart attack or stroke. You know, if it didn't occur to me until listening to that clip, I really should have taken tally while watching these episodes of how many times Krell used the phrase, for a clone.

Speaker: ah Uh, that would be a fun drinking game, but, uh, you'd probably die. At least not that way. Yeah, you can't let Krell kill you.

Speaker: Fucking right, though. But no, like, anyway, just Remember how I spent all that time just a little bit ago yelling about how Rex and Anakin work together and respect each other on the battlefield?

Speaker: I'd say it's more like appropriate yelling. This is now a bit more angry yelling. Oh no, you haven't seen the angry yelling yet. That comes later. Yes. Oh no, you you pulled the Bane line.

Speaker: Yeah, again, we'll get there when we get there. But no, because like Crow has been on screen for like a minute and change so far and has already decided he's going to spend the majority of his screen time, say all of his screen time,

Speaker: being a pretentious, self-aggrandizing asshole at best. <unk>ve already decided I want to reach through the screen, yank off all four of his arms, and replace them with dollar store pool li noodles so that he can only flail around helplessly like a youngest child trying to fruitlessly defend against the attacks of their older siblings and cousins at the family pool party.

Speaker: Like, how fucking dare he talk to my sons like that? Who fuck does he think he is? that that That sounds like a very specific anecdote. Hmm, yes. What about it? But on that note, speaking of forearms, my job is being the Star Wars, another so type of Star Wars nerd.

Speaker: General Pong Krell is a best-of-the-smail Jedi master. Besclis are a rare species in the Star Wars universe, and their last prominent feature in the franchise before this was Dexter Chester, owner of Dexter Chester's 50s diner from Star Wars Episode II, Attack of the Clones.

Speaker: Pongrow is clearly different in stature and size and a robust chin Dexter Jester, but they do share the unique forearms that he will use considerably in his abilities to wield lightsabers.

Speaker: Also, his design is very similar to the Jedi brute enemy type from Star Wars Episode III, the official video game. All right, and so we dive into another... We we got we got clips this episode, folks.

Speaker: Sorry, not sorry. So many. So many. and And mostly requested by Betsy. Yep. Thank you, Betsy. General Krell, the top of this ridge will make a good place for the men to make camp.

Speaker: The men don't need rest. They need the resolve to complete the task at hand. But, sir... CT-7567, are you reading me? excuse me sir I ask you a question, CT-7567.

Speaker: Do you understand the need to adhere to my strategy? Sir, the terrain is extremely hostile. Despite the difficulty of the conditions, the battalion is making good time.

Speaker: These men just need a little break. Captain. Do I need to remind you of this battalion's strategic mission in conquering this planet? Look back. See those platoons?

Speaker: Their mission is to take this city and take it swiftly. Time and rest are luxuries the Republic cannot afford. We are the key to this invasion. The other battalions are counting on our support.

Speaker: If we fail, everyone fails. Do you understand this? Do all of you understand this? Now move on! Oh my god, I can't.

Speaker: Like, I want to say something like... Quentin, you have the floor. I just... Ugh. I don't know. Like, I want to express my emotions here properly. And even more, I want to say something about, like, the allegorical significance of this scene. But, like, I just have no words. I'm sitting here vibrating in place with rage. And I ah just, yeah.

Speaker: Can someone else talk while I try to get myself back under control? Because I'm going to need a minute while I sit here just dealing with my rage at the dehumanization. And also, as I called this clip, crowd dead naping Rex. Because, yeah, let's call it what it is. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, basically. it's It's not entirely paralleled to transgender deadnaming, but it's pretty close in regards to not seeing the clones as people and only seeing them as products. Yeah, very teakins. In much simpler way. Through the humanization. human that they said Or in this case, just...

Speaker: b And but much in a similar parallel to how people not using the correct name for trans people is not seeing them as their correct gender or, you know, not respecting them in that regard as well.

Speaker: Not respecting their existence as who they are. In this case, the clones are just reduced to a number. In this case, would they all... Especially since we've seen Domino Squad, they have those fives that everyone's like... Their names have a meaning to that. And I'm going to take a little a little jump to the side, asterisk here, sidebar, that...

Speaker: let Let's give a a round of applause here for d Bradley Baker, who, playing all of the clones, we're listening to these clips, and I can tell each of the clones apart, even though they they're all...

Speaker: quote-unquote, the same person, and it's the same actor voicing them all, and it's and it's not like he's putting on southern accent for one, and a New Zealand accent for another, and ah you know a de-register for one.

Speaker: They're all recognizably closed. They all recognize clones, but they are distinctly that clone, that speech pattern, that vocal cadence, that pure voice acting. He has found little elements of each of their personalities that make them unique enough that you can tell them apart as characters, that they are individuals.

Speaker: They may have started out as to oversimplify and be horribly, be very Krell-like in it, and say that they they started out as carbon copies of the same person, but they're no longer the same person. Yeah, like think I mentioned this somewhere later on.

Speaker: The unique thing. Like, yeah there's a there's a great subreddit there called Trans Clones, which is very inclusive and everything. But the idea is, like, clones are a sort of an allegory for a lot of people grow up growing up with the Clone Wars for that.

Speaker: And that they're all individuals who are like, typecasted into one thing, but they all grew into their own thing. Nice. Yeah, and, like, I know I'm not necessarily the right person to speak on this, being the cis person that I am, but like just something that stuck out to me and kind of touching on what Lauren said too about like the importance of names.

Speaker: I think it's also kind of similar to like what Cruella is doing to how a lot of transphobic assholes will go out of their way to deadname someone and say that it's, you know, because it's the right name or the legal name or whatever, but no, they're just doing it like to make a point because they want the other person to suffer and feel bad. Yeah.

Speaker: This is true. It's almost even worse. and it's like It's true dehumanization. Usually that's just like to put the back in... They couldn't care less what the person's name is. They just want to do whatever they can to make that person feel like shit. They want to put persons in a box and hurt them, but this is like literally turning them into a product number.

Speaker: They are... And again, we we saw in the arc when we started with ah with Domino Squad that there are products that could be like re reimagined or broken down and destroyed.

Speaker: like It's truly dehumanizing the clones. But it has elements that is like in real life where it's just trying to push you into boxes. But in this case, the box is literally...

Speaker: You are just a thing. Yeah, although it's not that much different because in the real world it's not necessarily that you're a product, but it's a, I'm going to use you as a political prop for my own agenda. And Star Wars, just to remind everyone, Star Wars doesn't have politics. Nope, 0% politics. Art has no politics at all ever. None politics.

Speaker: All is political. You will learn nothing be political from this podcast. Or any other piece of art. So, Krell starts giving some orders... to to to the troops. I'm in

Speaker: there won't be any need captain sir all platoons will execute a forward assault along the main route to the sir general skywalker's plan was to surprise them with multiple attacks if we come in from the main route they likely to engage us in a full frontal assault change of plans i'm in com command With all due respect, General, we don't know what we are up against.

Speaker: It might be wiser to think first. Are you questioning my order? This battalion will take the main road, straight to the capital. You will not stop and you will not turn back regardless of the resistance you meet.

Speaker: We will attack them with all our troops, not some sneak attack with a few men. That is my order, and you will follow it explicitly. Do I make myself clear, CT 7567? Yes, General.

Speaker: Now engage.

Speaker: Bessie, may I may mary take take the mic? Sure, go ahead. I do it enough as it is. I guess I can spend some of my time.

Speaker: i may be an armed terror general, but I've read my own fair share of war or history. You magnificent bastard, you've read their book? This is stupid.

Speaker: Really stupid. Taking... like Full funeral assaults can work, but not when you're going down the main road. If there's a main road that doesn't have an offensive defense, it's a trap.

Speaker: It's mine. It is likely with individuals waiting for ambos. It makes no sense whatsoever. That's when I figured out, like, but you're going to hit that, but like it's like, this is a bad strategy.

Speaker: Sorry, just really quick. You said it's a what? Yeah, I was about to ask this. Really bad. Real bad strategy. No, it's a what? It starts with a It's a There it is!

Speaker: Yeah, you know, somebody somebody coming up with an even more aggro plan than Anakin himself, you know that's ah you know that's when things are getting bad. no for real, like when fucking Vaderkin's over here suggesting the subtle route.

Speaker: Again, Anakin apparently had like five different... Honestly, I would have loved to know, Anakin, how many of those were going to be you leading them and how many of them were going to actually succeed?

Speaker: All of them and none of them respectively. Without you being there.

Speaker: And to be in the team and Obi-Wan to bail you out if you failed? Eh, 64. That's at least 50%. How many of these plans were improvised plans? right

Speaker: Right. I trust that Rex had plans with Anakin. and None of them would have succeeded without Anakin, Ahsoka, and possibly Obi-Wan to bail them out. yeah And

Speaker: Rex would keep things down. I'm not saying that he would win the engagement. He needs everyone else. Oh, please. Rex doesn't appear like an agent of chaos when he's standing next to people that are actual chaos gremlins.

Speaker: He's really like, you know, neutral by association. they had Cody by his side. that's the thing. standing next to Cody, Rex is the chaos gremlin. Yeah. But no, anyway, getting back on track, like, is spoilers if I point out that Krell's acting like he's trying to get everyone killed? Spoilers. It's like, that's just kind of, yep, that's just kind of an accurate description of what his plan is here.

Speaker: And like, I know Rex knows he's in an impossible position here. He knows this is the most insane dogshit plan and it's going to get them all killed. And he doesn't want to go through with it. Like, doesn't want any of them to go through with it. But it's like, what is he supposed to do?

Speaker: You know? Like, first of all, Krell is in charge in every way that counts. He outrakes Rex in the Jairus hierarchy. He's a Jedi. Jedi. And he's a sentient being because, legally speaking, Rex isn't a person.

Speaker: None of the clones are. They're a product. Like, Rex's obeying orders would go far above and beyond insubordination because he's a soldier in name only. Like, sure, can walk and talk and think and feel, but on paper, he's only material for the war.

Speaker: Like, refusing to follow orders like a good soldier, TMCR, would mean he's defective product, and there's only two paths forward from there. Summary execution or reconditioning, TMCR.

Speaker: And I'm just going to let everyone use their imagination to consider what the latter might entail. But then there's also Rex's loyalty to... And if you don't even know about it later in the franchise, that there's some other options. Don't worry about it.

Speaker: None no Don't worry about It's fine. Don't worry about it. yeah But then there's the matter of Rex's loyalty. Not to like the G.A.R. the Republic, but to Anakin specifically.

Speaker: like he Rex was the one that insisted everything would be fine. That he would take care of the mission. That he would look after and take responsibility for the men. That Anakin could trust him. And Anakin did put his trust in him. It's it's a heavily implied that Anakin named Rex.

Speaker: Or at least they worked up that. Yeah, and it's like Anakin definitely put his steadfast belief in rex that you know if anyone could handle things while he was gone it would be wrecks and last what rex wants to do is to betray that trust like if rex decides to disobey orders here and now the whole mission could very well follow fall apart in the ensuing chaos and if that happens they let the other troops waiting on them down, there's no telling how many would die. And then- Which is also the 212, which is Cody and Obi-Wan, that he also knows. And then finally there's Rex's duty to his men. Like, the whole reason he wants to disobey orders is because he's painfully aware that a frontal assault would be a bloodbath.

Speaker: But then what happens next? He gets court-martialed, he's sent to death by firing squad with his men who fought alongside him, now forced to serve as his executioners? There, I'll play the clip. Foreshadowing is a literary device.

Speaker: Thank you. Or, I mean, what else? He's hauled back to Kamino for reconditioning and never seen or heard from him again? Like, regardless of his fate, there's always one common outcome. He would be forced to leave his men behind. He'd be leaving them alone in the hands of that monster and there would be nothing he could do to stand between them and the slaughterhouse Krell can't wait to march them into. And...

Speaker: Rex, you know, he talks to Hardcase, and he's saying that he raised his objections to General Krell, but he didn't agree. And that had a really similar vibe to me as something else I've heard.

Speaker: I'm a captain. He's a chain of command. Drives go up, not down. Always up Same here. But, you know, this this all reminds me of this old Brawl the Family comic, which was based on various Nintendo games. And Nintendo has two strategy series to its name.

Speaker: One is Fire Emblem, and one is Advance Wars. And one of the key mechanical differences between these two franchises It is the way that units operate. In Fire Emblem, every unit in the game is its own unique character.

Speaker: And if they die, they are permanently dead. Oh yeah, I remember that. Each unit is is permanently dead if they die. And they all have experience, so you want to try to keep everybody alive. But in Advance Wars...

Speaker: None of the units are unique. You can just keep creating new units constantly. And so it creates the contrast in the Brawl the Family comic where one of the Firemoon leaders is like, don't worry, everybody.

Speaker: With my hard work and determination, I'll make sure that all of you survive. in comparison to the Advance Wars protagonist is like, don't worry, everybody. We're going to win this because I can always just keep making more of you as he sends them all to their deck.

Speaker: Krell does not, in fact, fight for his friends. which ah Which reminds me of a classic joke from Futurama. I will say, ways and ways it it's against the enemy until we win.

Speaker: oh But hey, you know, Krell talked about, you know, kind of mildly raising his objections to, or Rex talked about mildly raising his objections to Krell, but not really passing that down the ranks.

Speaker: You know who's not afraid to loudly raise his objections in front of everyone? Who? Who? Five! He's like, okay, so I know all of the clones are very good boys, but five?

Speaker: That's my son right there, okay? I love it How many children do you have from this series? Don't worry about it! She has many. Many. Fortunately, most of them are test tube children, literally.

Speaker: I'm more or less than eight kids, so... I mean, they're not my kids, I get to give them back at the end of the workday, but, you know, on paper I more or less have eight kids. But no, like, Krell is literally there holding a lightsaber to Fives' fucking neck, and Fives, my boy, refuses to back down for what he knows is right. Even his, like, sir, yes, sir, is far from acquiescence, and he makes sure Krell knows it.

Speaker: Arcs are supposed to be independent figures, Are we sure he's in part is he part of the like special clone unit? Because there's some cojones on that one. that's what was about to say, because ARCs are supposed to be independent thinkers and all that.

Speaker: Which, like don't get me wrong, Fives totally is. But to me, I would say that just his strongest character traits have always been his sense of justice and just how much he cares about his family.

Speaker: Like, I don't care if he's never said it out loud in Canada or whatever, but you cannot tell me that Five doesn't look at the entire 501st, Torrin Company, every single clone from his closest friends to the newest Shinies, even Anakin and Ahsoka, and sees his family.

Speaker: Like, Five doesn't fight for duties or ideals. He fights for people. He was born with a condition called K.T.M.T.M.T.M.S.H. and it's terrible! He doesn't fight for the public, he fights for everyone he cares about.

Speaker: He's good And... Do you need to wipe your tears? I can hear them. so that comes later. as as we As we near the end of the episode, Rex has a few words with Krell.

Speaker: Sir, if I may address your accusation, I followed your orders, even in the face of a plan that was, in my opinion, severely flawed. A plan that cost us men, not clones, men!

Speaker: As sure as it is my duty to remain loyal to your command, I also have another duty to protect those men.

Speaker: Yeah, i have nothing else to add here. Rex said it all. so commentary. I was going to say, like, I do like the... It's a simple thing, him taking off the helmet.

Speaker: it Again... Oh, boy, I have lots of things to say about that later. it's It's the voice. Again, it goes to the voice acting. The the voice acting on the helmet is modulate, but it's still the same voice actor. But it's like...

Speaker: That is his actual voice. It's not modulated. it's It's not the trooper voice. so It's not the product. And he said what he said. It's the man.

Speaker: And he's fighting saying it for his men. And I have just been... i'm always glad to have you on, Betsy. And i really I am totally glad to just let you go on this one because there's not really much in the way of story detail to run down for the episode, and for most of the episodes in this arc.

Speaker: and no wait this one But there's much more story in terms clone characters rather than like narrative story. yeah The narrative story is is tied so deeply to it, so it is basically...

Speaker: The clone narrative.

Speaker: serves mainly to tee up and highlight the differences between how anekin and by extension you know hobi one and any other jedi that we've seen leading clones interacts with the colognes and with how crell views them And from dismissing their need to rest to you brandishing his lit lightsaber at fives when fives stood up for Rex, Krell is a marked difference from what we're used to seeing Jedi interacting with the clones like.

Speaker: But as Rex puts c Krell in his place, you almost get that sense that we... hey, maybe we're going to get the trope of the the cold, hard-ass leader that suddenly seeing his troops as individuals.

Speaker: Almost. Which is good. Maybe. ah But there's also some... It does also talk him back to earlier arcs, but we can get back to that yeah as we continue into the next episode. We end with the co clones under fire in the heat of battle.

Speaker: And that next episode is The General, Season 4, Episode 8. Krell orders the clone troopers to conquer an Umbaran airbase.

Speaker: Or as I'd call this episode, everything is all fun in games until the trees start speakin' barn. Let's talk about something positive for a minute.

Speaker: Because these very good boys are out here working together like their own version of the team. Like the communication, the support, the wordless trust, the going out of their way to save a brother's life, and Kix is getting to do a medic shift, which we never see enough of in my opinion.

Speaker: And oh look, there's Krell shoving a downed trooper out of the way with his foot like he's trying to nudge a piece of gutter trash out of his way before he crosses the street. Okay, but honestly, if this fucker says frontal assault one more time, I'm going to defetest my laptop and myself with it. Oh my fucking god. i How did it really feel?

Speaker: Right? But no, I also think just it's really telling then like how before Rex even like begins to lay out the battle plans. Like we were talking about earlier, he takes off his bucket.

Speaker: Like we've seen Rex give plenty of briefings over the course of the series. And I can't really think of any other time where he's just repeatedly done that, gone out of his way to expose his face in a situation where arguably it would make more sense to just keep his helmet on because they're literally about to go into battle.

Speaker: But in this situation, he's well aware of what he's asking his men to do, like what kind of position he's telling them to put themselves in. So he takes off that part of his armor and makes himself vulnerable, literally and metaphorically, because he knows this is one place where he needs to speak to everyone as a man rather than a soldier. yeah And it reinforces the fact that that he's trying to... He's working in the command structure, and the command structure does not view them as people.

Speaker: He's... He sort sort of compromises. like When he meets with Krell, he's usually in helmet. when he meets with the troopers, he's masked off. It's like, okay, this is not going to be great, but that's what the commander said. He's trying to he's trying to balance those two those two two two parts of himself.

Speaker: Beholden to a general and beholden to his men. And so then we have a little, you know, Rex and Fives heart-to-heart here. It's going to be a meat grinder, then.

Speaker: It would help if you eased their minds. What, you mean coax them into following another one of Krell's suicide missions? We lost a lot of men last time. Krell may do things differently, but he is effective in getting them done.

Speaker: He's a recognized war hero. He may have had some victories, but have you seen his casualty numbers? More troopers have been killed under his command than anyone else. That's the price of war, Fives.

Speaker: We're soldiers. We have a duty to follow orders, and if we must, lay down our lives for victory. You believe that? Or is that what you were engineered to think?

Speaker: I honor my code. That's what I believe. I just have many thoughts about this scene, and how much it speaks to who Rex in Fives are as characters.

Speaker: But also, you also remember that Rex has been here since Geonosis. He's been through some of the the start through some of the worst parts of the war.

Speaker: He's also seen in the episode The Deserter someone that's left the conflict and may have begrudgingly agreed with them. Yeah, but like I know I said it earlier, but Rex still just, he knows this is a bad idea. like he doesn't want to put his men through it, but he doesn't feel like he's in a position to defy his orders outright.

Speaker: Part of being a command position means Rex has to look at the bigger picture. he has to depersonalize each engagement, both because it's necessary for strategy and because if he doesn't, you know it's like how doctors and nurses can care deeply for their patients, but if their patient dies, that doesn't change the fact that they still have a job to do, whether or not they can like may very well be a matter of life and death for the people counting on them.

Speaker: But just I couldn't help but notice how when Fives challenges him, like asked if he really believes in his duty as a soldier over the lives of the clones, Rex doesn't actually answer the question.

Speaker: He says, i honor my code, but doesn't say what that code is. Also, he notably calls it my code. Not our code or GAR's code or whatever. That's why I brought it up.

Speaker: Yeah, he specifically says my code, and you can't tell me that wording isn't intentional. Oh, no, it is. he's like He's been thinking about that since the episode with the Deserter. When he first met him, he was willing to turn him in or call him out for that.

Speaker: He didn't. It's been a slow development, but... Rex's development has been and also is connected to Anakin's. He's learning from his Jedi General.

Speaker: And to, like, bend the rules, make your own morality, your own code in this conflict. And make up your mind about what's important to you and do your best to protect that.

Speaker: And now he's being confronted by that because, well, that's what his code is. to use an old meme like i learned if i'm want you man so you learn it from but now he's being forced by someone who's much more dogmatic incredibly dogmatic Very much.

Speaker: We'll talk about Dogman later. We haven't met him yet. was to say, we haven't met him yet. That comes later. Yeah, we'll get to that. But anyway, I've talked about Rex, but then Fives, by contrast, like he doesn't worry nearly as much about the bigger picture, because you know it's like he doesn't have to. It's not that he doesn't care about it it's just that he's far more concerned with means rather than ends overall.

Speaker: like Yes, he wants to capture the airbase, win the battle, and win the war, and all that, but He's also painfully aware that the Republic war machine runs on the blood of the clones, that he and his siblings are expected to spill every ounce of blood they have just to keep the wheels of war turning.

Speaker: If he can do something, anything, to keep from sacrificing any more of his siblings on the altar of whatever it is the Republic is standing for this week. That's why he prefers Anakin as a general.

Speaker: He's willing to, like, big, bold plans with small casualties. usually leading from the front, small casualties. It's like, there'll still be casualties. It's war, but it's like, he's willing to take big risks if it means we're not putting anyone in the meat grinder.

Speaker: Yeah, because, you know, that's what I saying. Like, if he can do something, just literally anything to keep from sacrificing more of his siblings on the altar of whatever it is the Republic is standing for this week, then he will go out of his way to do it, even if it's the much harder fought path.

Speaker: Like, Rex speaks to Krell's victories, But Fives only looks at his casualties, the long list of the dead that earned him every victory Krell ever achieved. He doesn't want any of them to end up just another string of letters and numbers in a long list of the Forgotten Dead, because they all deserve better than that.

Speaker: And that's us saying that Anakin didn't cause many deaths, but at least he tried at his very best to make sure that it was a tactical victory, like where it was like maybe 10 died.

Speaker: Thousands later. This is as good a place as any to say that you can already see in this point of this episode that There's a constant sense of pressure and impending doom going on throughout these episodes.

Speaker: you Just like Krell explicitly said that the clones don't need rest last episode, we haven't really seen them get much of a breather. They're constantly either in combat or on their way to a fight.

Speaker: yeah the tension just keeps ratcheting up and up, even in what passes for quiet scenes in these episodes. And so I end up feeling exhausted for them.

Speaker: And that's some good storytelling there. Yeah, those are great narrow choices. On top of that, it goes into showing the unique Umbar and Warmas scene.

Speaker: we We don't see a whole lot of silly B1 battle droids in this episode. We see actual sentient beings and we see them in unique dangerous weapons.

Speaker: Massive tanks. Unique tanks. takes a Unique sabotage droids that electrocute you to death.

Speaker: And taking advantage of the environment and and the weird creatures. It's It's honestly like, no at no point are you meant to feel safe on this planet, nor in this arc.

Speaker: Because the enemy is fighting with everything they got. They're bringing up new challenges. and But Pong Krell is meeting each challenge with a apparently just a full frontal assault every time.

Speaker: It would eventually win, but with the casualties, it just becomes insane. Seeing them try to blow up a tank, but like barely able to do any damage, and three more take its place.

Speaker: Yeah, but as we move on, just I'm watching this next assault, casually eyeing my window and weighing the odds of breaking through the glass with enough prove without enough room to actually get a running start. I think if I try hard enough, I could make it, because I might need to!

Speaker: But leave it to my son to say the quiet part out loud. And I quote, I used to think General Krell was reckless, but now I'm starting to think he just hates clones.

Speaker: And, you know, don't mind me. Foreshadowing is a literary device. There it is. yeah But don't mind me, I'm just also up here having emotions about Kix desperately trying to save his... possible and having to be forced when he keeps trying to save more because that's like twice so far that rex has specifically ordered him to stop going after a wounded trooper and denying kicks the opportunity to see if he could patch them up like Twice that Kix have been ordered to give up on a sibling and leave them to die in the fucking dirt.

Speaker: Like, I think Kix had every right to call Rex out and compare him to Krell in that moment because if it weren't for General Johnny Two Sabers, Rex would never sacrifice troopers in the way he has been. And it's a good thing he did because coming from Kix, I think the message finally got through.

Speaker: Like, fucking finally Rex decides to try a not suicidal strategy and beg forgiveness later. Plus, he picked the best team for the job because my baby boy and his blast happy brother have this in the bag.

Speaker: And lets let's listen to Hardcase for a second. Oh boy. The second they spot us, I start blasting. Hardcase, can't you take it easy for once? Stick to the plan instead of guns blazing.

Speaker: I'm sorry, it's just how I am. My commander on Kamino said my growth acceleration chamber had a leak. Made me hyperactive, I guess. We stand a very good neurodivergent boy. and for anyone asking why, yes, ADHD hard case is on my list of clone headcanons. Thank you for asking. Lovely.

Speaker: Also, he likes things go boom, and that's also a valid hard case headcanon. Very good. Thank you for both. Yeah, that's not headcanon. that He just said it right there.

Speaker: Yeah. That's just text. There is no sub to that text. would that would make Would that make it dom text? Yes, it's dom text. Or at least top text.

Speaker: Top text would probably be more appropriate in terms of lyrics. But yeah. I i got a bad word. I don't think Nick got what we were saying, Betsy.

Speaker: It's okay. No, I did.

Speaker: I did. I just corrected you. We'll explain it to you one day. When you're older. yep But anyway, these two good boys break into the base by climbing a fucking tree and just getting over the other side.

Speaker: And it's beautiful and I love it and I love their creativity. And then they get to steal these ships and they're really cool and just, I love their sheer unbridled joy at getting to fly the cool floaty ship and blow up a bunch of shit.

Speaker: Like, they're... gonna talk about those later. Yeah, but no, the way they're just taking like so much joy and this little moment of levity is sending me. i just, I really needed that after everything else in this episode, okay?

Speaker: And so then it comes time to report in Captain, report! What is our situation?

Speaker: General, we have taken the base and cut off enemy supply lines to the capital. Luck has smiled on you today, Captain. Consider yourself fortunate. It wasn't all luck, sir.

Speaker: A lot of men died to take this base. The price for such victory. Perhaps someday you'll realize this. Oh my god, just so much to unpack here.

Speaker: Like, Krell's comment about Luck barely hiding the implicit threat that the only reason Krell isn't relieving Rex of Duty is because the plan worked. And then Rex's helmet and hand, instead of covering his face, walking up to meet Krell, purposefully positioning himself between Krell and the rest of his brothers, and loudly telling Krell that, no, actually, it wasn't Luck.

Speaker: It was the lives of fuck knows how many troopers whose bodies are still lying out there in the dirt, probably getting picked over by the local wildlife like so much roadkill. And Kral just glibly stating that such is the price of war.

Speaker: As if Rex doesn't already fucking know that. As if Rex hasn't had to live with that day in and day out for about two years now. And then he speaks to the loss of life with the most blasé attitude, like Rex is the weird one for caring.

Speaker: And, you know, finally the cracks are starting to show because Rex is just, he's done, like He spent all this time defending Krell and for what? To see the 504 slaughtered like someone let Vader can loose in an orphanage?

Speaker: He's done making excuses, done toeing the line, done lying to himself that any of this is remotely okay. So now the question is, how will Rex start pushing back? How indeed. i will add one more final thing.

Speaker: A very specific moment from the original trilogy episode for a New Hope. Obi-Wan says it's guards of the forces, knows this thing is lying. You know, I was actually... that That line popped into my head when when pulling that clip myself.

Speaker: There's something wrong. that That's part of putting something unusual into the Force. The Force is meant to be assured.

Speaker: The Jedi are supposed to be assured, especially in this era. the fact that they've been relying on luck and believing that the clones have luck is a or implying they have it is same as colloquially a red flag like i think it was rather telling that you know a jedi of all things said luck because yeah it like it's not just the implied threat it's also the implication that Everything is not at the force wheels, and it was just sheer fucking chance that this worked out, and it most likely wouldn't have worked out. And if they keep taking risks like this and going against Krell's orders, it's not going to work out.

Speaker: Especially considering that the literal first... It's not the first episode of the series, but the first episode in release order...

Speaker: Yoda identified that all clones have an identity in the Force. And Dee Bradley Baker makes sure we know it. That is right. So there's there's a lot of connections in here, and there's going continue those connections into the next episode.

Speaker: Plan of Descent, Season 4, Episode 9. Clone Troopers disobey and carry out a daring operation. Good morning, Umbara Base!

Speaker: I like how it starts with Hardcase and Dogma just casually walking alongside Krell and then Rex walks up like, hey, you know that ginger guy that Cody calls names I can't repeat is on hold on line three because I'm sure that's just what he calls Obi-Wan.

Speaker: And then, you know, they all head that direction except for Hardcase who just nonchalantly slips away unnoticed. And like, guys, come on, come on.

Speaker: Look me in the eye and tell me that Rex wasn't fully aware that Hardcase was sneaking away specifically to do something stupid. Like, sure, Hardcase was quiet about it, but you know, that's exactly what would have tipped Rex off in the first place.

Speaker: If Hardcase isn't either running his mouth or blowing random shit up, then something suspicious is going on. Most likely something that will force Rex to submit extra data work, because let's be real, there's no way Annie writes his own mission reports.

Speaker: You can tell me that this is sheer speculation on my part, but I prefer to see it as further evidence of the ever-widening cracks in Krell's leadership and his grip on the I mean, Rex still needs plausible deniability for now, but that doesn't mean he can't conveniently look the other way.

Speaker: Nope. Betsy, allow me to simplify your entire sentence, your paragraph there. Hello, I am Hardcast, welcome to Jackass.

Speaker: That's just every time Hardcast is on screen. And then we we have you observation from Fives. Krell's got Jesse stacking oldenance.

Speaker: I'm still waiting for Krell to thank us for handing this base over to him. Me too, Fives. Me too. And yes, I did make Darryl get his belly six-second clip just so my son could express his frustration.

Speaker: It's okay, Fives. I see you and you're doing an amazing job, sweetie. Don't forget our guy, Jesse. He's a star. Yes, he's a star, but Fives is my son. And also, I will have things to say about Jesse at a later date.

Speaker: Boy, will I have things to say about Jesse at a later date. All right. Don't worry about it. It's fine. But can Jesse be... I like Jesse a lot.

Speaker: or We're going to have conflict. This isn't Jesse's time to shine. Again, i have things to say about him in the future times, but we'll get there when we get there. Right. Because I sure will have things to say about him later.

Speaker: we'll beat it up with lightsabers. Yeah, it's not this episode of the podcast, but you know I did say that later on you're going to have me on like for every single episode because I'm not going to let you talk about it without me.

Speaker: Well, we'll all be in the same padded room at that point. I don't know if you want to be in the same padded room as me. That's a dangerous place to be. Can be in the same padded room? Because you and I would have fun in the same padded room.

Speaker: I'll bring Stephanie, too. That padded room would probably exist in the gutter. Can I bring the Kirby game to the same padded room? Because then I'll sneak out about things, too. Except, Neryl, you know, if you want to have padded room, your wife is also going to take up residence with us because all three of us live there together.

Speaker: I just said I would bring her with me. Oh, well, there we go. Back on track. Back on track. Yeah, we get a message through the environment's communication system, and this may not make sense if you don't see the visual, but I just gotta say this.

Speaker: Obi-Wan Cube Noby. That's it. Yeah. to be yeah You're all welcome. have a really weird... we It's supposedly more advanced, but it's also like, why why why he blocks?

Speaker: He's Obi-Wan Cube Noby. Just deep open Deal with it. Deal with it just like Rex and Kriel have to deal with one another here. Have those containers searched and all weapons prepped and loaded.

Speaker: Have the battalion ready to move out in 12 hours. We're advancing on the capital. Sir, should I try to get a message to General Kenobi? Shouldn't we coordinate our attack? Especially in light of the recent threat.

Speaker: General Kenobi has his hands full. Same as us. We need to throw everything we have at them. Now! We'd be marching into a blast zone somewhere.

Speaker: Yeah, this certainly has nothing that has

Speaker: any resonance for current events. Get with the program or else. Nothing going on. but you are smart enough and loyal enough to obey my orders now prep those troops yeah this certainly has nothing that has any resonance for current events yeah with the program or else nothing going going on and There's also no resonance with current events as Krell, you know, yells about insurgents when it's the Umbarans fighting on Umbara for Umbara. Right.

Speaker: Just gonna put that there. for No reason whatsoever. so la Well, it has nothing to do with any sort of, like... It has nothing to any sort of foreign conflict.

Speaker: it's ah It's weird that we haven't seen any Trois, but it's just because, like, they're the... bad guys, quote-unquote? Again, it's like poetry, so if they rhyme. So, when do you think people are going to notice the skulls on their caps?

Speaker: Oh, that's like a year later. Sorry, Mitchell and Webb, you're going to have to wait for a while. Yep. Okay, but after this, iris I requested a specific clip, and like I know this is a long one, but it's a really good one to sum up this entire clusterfuck of a situation and everyone's individual thoughts on Krell's bullshit.

Speaker: And of Some mild use of a certain literary device we sometimes mention in past days. Foreshadowing is a literary device. But I'm sure that's not important. Daryl, roll the clip.

Speaker: Those missiles have a hundred megaton yield. We won't even make it to the Delta. What can I do? I've tried to reason with him. Those are the orders. Great. Another a suicide mission.

Speaker: The Capitol is too well armed. Why does it seem like he has it out for clones? I think you're all overreacting. Obviously, General Krell knows what he's doing. Do you really think he doesn't care if he loses men?

Speaker: I'm not saying that. But I do think his desire for victory has blinded him to the fact that there are lives at stake. I've never seen a general with these kinds of casualties.

Speaker: He's out of control. He is not acting like the other Jedi. He has no respect for us. Listen, I don't agree with him either, but I don't have a better plan. What about using these starfighters to destroy the supply ship?

Speaker: Our fleet has been trying. the Umbarans have it as protected as the capital. but we've got their access codes and their own hardware. You're able to crack it? Mm-hmm. We can sneak right past their blockade.

Speaker: Get where our ships can't.

Speaker: If we take out that supply ship, then we cut off arms to the capital. Yeah, lot to say about this one. And I don't even remember where I put the paragraph where I talked about this, but I'm going to bring it up now.

Speaker: Oh, here it is. I remember my thing. remember my thing. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, I'm going to read this now instead of later. It's like to take a step back and put my many emotions on hold for a sec.

Speaker: I think like this is a great example of makes the Clone Wars such a compelling watch because despite being largely episodic in nature, the show still maintains a very character driven narrative, which is hard to do when we only get to see some of those characters for a few episodes at best.

Speaker: And that success really comes down to, in my opinion, to the writing and the voice acting. Because each clone we meet and spend time with has such an incredibly distinct personality. Each with their own speech patterns and mannerisms and various other idiosyncrasies.

Speaker: That it's surprisingly easy to forget they're all, you know, clones. And Dee Bradley Baker's voice acting also makes sure each one feels distinct.

Speaker: Like, seriously, sometimes I close my eyes while watching to see if I can figure out who's talking, and I write a surprising amount of the time. Like, almost all the time. If I remember this one interview correctly, I think he said it was like he wrote down, like, a single word to represent each clone he voiced as a guide for how to approach reading their lines.

Speaker: And you can really tell that he put the word in to set each and every one of them apart. Betsy, I will say this, like, as someone that grew up with the Clone Wars... re-watching it, my biggest problem was like the amount of quote-unquote filler.

Speaker: And it's true. there's There's a lot of arcs that don't really hit In terms of like the overall Star Wars story. Some of them are fun.

Speaker: But there's a lot that they're like... Rewatching don't hit me. Or get acknowledged back. But that's what I like. like when Like when the episodes do hit with the characters like the clones.

Speaker: they They hit especially hard. and And so that I feel like in The post-Clone Wars era, the Disney era, it's like... Their series are a bit more concise.

Speaker: More character and story developed. Because arcs like this are amazing. But it feels like... I guess, like, the previous arc, we we had a whole lot of hard... Had a hard time talking about stuff.

Speaker: Like, yeah, there's unique ideas and stuff... But this is e a mind that we could spend multiple episodes on just by thinking it.

Speaker: But no, I totally agree. Like, even though there are a lot of filler things, like, again, as someone who also grew up at the same time, like, there's a reason that The Clone Wars still sticks with me as much as it did when I was, like, a teen, you know?

Speaker: Watching it on Cartoon Network at very strange hours because the airing schedule was completely fucked oh yeah honestly i think we should just do an episode sometimes and actually describe how weird that was it was really honestly plenty of people have talked about how that works on cartoon network and all that it it was a cluster but for us we could probably do that like a part of like an episode one time but either way just saying like Episodes like this, arcs like this, stood out because it's like, you had to put a lot of effort to get into them.

Speaker: It's like, you had to think about them a lot more. And they were really impressive. And then other stuff was like, why did you make me wait for all this time?

Speaker: But this was not one of them. But anyway, back to your regularly scheduled emotional stream of consciousness word vomit. I just, I love how every single clone has their own opinion and feelings about Krell and none of them really fully align with each other.

Speaker: Like, Jesse is resentful, but not yet ready to come out and say what he knows is happening. Like, he throws out the idea of Krell hating clones and intentionally getting all of them killed, but he just, he does so casually. Like, in a way where if anyone called him on it, could just brush it off as hyperbole or a bit of gallows humor instead of, like, a genuine accusation.

Speaker: Because a genuine accusation is... exactly what happens when Dogma pushes back. Like, Dogma, true to his name, is so sure that he can trust Krell, that everything is going according to some kind of plan, and that all he has to do is follow his orders and do everything by the book like he was taught, and everything will turn out okay.

Speaker: It's not that he can't think for himself or see those cracks, like, because he absolutely can, but if his double, triple, and quadrupling, at least if his double, triple, and quadrupling down on Krell's orders is any indication, like,

Speaker: I think Dogma is just intentionally blinding himself to the truth because he's terrified at the thought that his carefully constructed idea of what a battle is supposed to look like based on everything he learned at Kamino is vastly different from the reality of fighting on the ground.

Speaker: That no amount of regulations or codes or strategies can stop chaos from happening. like Neither he nor the people leading him have control over the situation because war itself just isn't controllable.

Speaker: And that uncertainty scares him. Choosing to cling to his belief in Krell is the only thing he has control over right now. And then poor Tup is feeling much the same as Dogma, but instead of just white-knuckling whatever he can control, he's more or less fully accepted that this battle in whatever Krell's is doing has slipped out of Rex's grasp a long time ago.

Speaker: You can hear just this combination of fear and resignation in his voice, like, He knows what's happening and he knows how this will likely end, but he's still worried about the battle to come, still scared of dying and watching his brothers die alongside him.

Speaker: My son, though, he's just fucking pissed. He has been so done with Krell's bullshit for so long and he's kept it somewhat quiet because Rex axed him to. And angry or not, Fives is still a good friend, but guess what? That four-armed fuck can't hear him now and he's sick and tired of pretending like any part of this is even remotely okay.

Speaker: Maybe him speaking up will cause unrest, but what's the alternative? Just sit back, shut up, and watch who knows how many clones die around him? He's already lost so much, like lost so many brothers, and he's so tired of watching more die just because some idiot decided they're cannon fodder instead of people.

Speaker: But ultimately, he knows that he can't do anything to stop Krell by himself. Not just because this isn't his call, but because how can he, one man, stand against a Jedi general?

Speaker: Like, how much of a difference would it even make if he tried? can't wait until he wants, but the thing that makes him angriest is how helpless he feels right now. And then there's Rex. He's still trying to keep the peace, still trying to keep some hold of the situation, but he's done making excuses. Like, he doesn't hem and ha and try to placate.

Speaker: He just comes right out and says that, yeah, he agrees. This is a dogshit plan that's going to get them all killed, and he hates everything about it. But now he's also dropping the leadership facade a little more, and more to just than fives.

Speaker: As Captain, he normally wouldn't be this up front with his men because he's supposed to fearlessly lead them, but he can't lie to them like that anymore. He admits he hates the plan, but he also admits that he doesn't know what to do. He doesn't have a better plan to present, and he doesn't have a way to stop Krell from getting back on his bullshit, as all of them are well aware by now.

Speaker: He doesn't want to do this, but for one of the few times in his life since leaving Camino, he feels truly at a loss. But honestly, to me, I think that also is the mark of a good leader, like one who's willing to admit when they don't know what to do and who is willing to take suggestions from the people they're supposed to lead because they trust and value their input.

Speaker: And, you know, who else that my son would come with a plan to save the day? I'm not saying he's the best boy, but I'm also not not saying that. Because he decides that since he and Hardcase did such a good job with those fighters, why don't they just use those to sneak in and blow up the droid control ship?

Speaker: You know, Anakin style. But no, Krell decides that they can't afford us to waste clones on frivolous adventures. Like, have I mentioned how much I hate this guy?

Speaker: Because I really hate this guy. Like, he's really out here talking about wasting them like a little kid in an arcade worried about using up too many quarters on the shitty claw machine. So then we have Fives leveling with Rex just a little bit.

Speaker: This is about more than just following orders. It is. It is about honor. Where is the honor in marching blindly to our deaths? It is not our call.

Speaker: We are part of something larger. We are not independent of one another. I'm sorry. I cannot just follow orders when I know they're wrong. Especially when lives are at stake.

Speaker: You will if you support the system we fight for. I do support it. I do. But I am not just another number. None of us are. Fives, where are you going?

Speaker: To round up some pilots. Sorry, I have to yell about my son again. Because this right here perfectly sums up his character. Rex may feel trapped by the circumstances, but five doesn't have time for any of that.

Speaker: Fully believes in honor and duty, but he doesn't believe he owes any of that to the Republic, some abstract political entity that couldn't care less whether he lives or dies. He owes it to the people he fights for.

Speaker: The Galactic Republic isn't a concept, it's a galaxy full of living, breathing, sentient beings, people just trying to live their lives as best they can, and Fives refuses to lose sight of that. He was never fighting for what, but a who, and he's done watching people die, and he's done being helpless.

Speaker: Krull can say or do whatever the fuck he wants, but he can't make Fives bow down and obey. And my boy is going to do what he knows is the right thing, even if Rex refuses to admit it. I do have to wonder, though. Fives vehemently assures Rex that, of course, he supports the system.

Speaker: Interesting choice of words there, Rex. And he seems to truly believe himself when he says it, but, you know, I'm just curious how true that assertion is, and if it is true, how much longer that will remain the case.

Speaker: ah It's fine. yeah I'm fine. But to carry out their plan, Hardcase takes some flying lessons and starts wreaking havoc and Fives uses the old situation normal. We're all fine here. We're fine. How are you?

Speaker: Approach to keeping Krell from investigating the explosions. Fives, maybe. I love you. Maybe leave the lying to someone else next time because even Hardcase has a better poker face. And it's the same face.

Speaker: Speaking about the unique technology of the Umbarans again, third fighters are truly nothing like anything in the wider Star Wars universe canon.

Speaker: At least until recently. In the first episode of Season 2 of the Emmy Award winning series, Andor...

Speaker: The Tissela character encounters a similarly obtuse and unusual cockpit for a fighter craft. I mean, it's clothes that looks more like a usual TIE fighter because it is a prototype TIE fighter.

Speaker: A TIE Avenger found in a Sinai facility. it features a unusual control system with two just as like the Clone Wars episode so two control units rather than age a singular joystick and a cockpit display, and has seemingly inverted controls, which is similar to how our Clone Wars characters have a difficulty of flying in the vehicle, as well as visual holographic targeting systems and weapons on a

Speaker: on struts of the fight fighter rather than internalized. It being a prototype fighter, makes me theorize that then perhaps a Umbaren had some say in the design of that particular TIE-FIRE model, but that's just a very... Again! Oh, never mind.

Speaker: Link. Nick. Nerd. Yep. What? Someone's a nerd on the casual nerdity podcast? Whoa! That was much more than casual. I mean, yes.

Speaker: I mean, are any of us actually casual about any of this? That was very intense nerdity right there. That was full frontal nerdity. Oh, man. Interesting choice of words, Gerald. Hey, it's not like I understand like like anything about like that...

Speaker: that That weird ah kid kid's horror game with the bear and stuff. don't know anything about that. Okay, you're going to have to help me out. Which horror game are we talking about?

Speaker: I also don't know. I don't play horror games. There are a lot of like stupid horror games with mascots out there. I genuinely don't know which one you're talking about. Moving on. Yes, this is the movie.

Speaker: Okay. Anyway.

Speaker: but yeah Finally, like I think Rex is really and truly starting to break here. Vives just rocks up to him like, fuck Krell, fuck the orders, fuck all of this, whatever, whatever, we do what we want.

Speaker: and Instead of ordering him to stand down again, Rex gives in. Rex is still carefully towing the line and won't condone whatever they're going to do, but he lets them go because despite everything, he's desperately hoping this they succeed.

Speaker: He knows Krell will come down hard on all of them for this, but there's even the slightest chance that this rogue plant of theirs will save everyone else from the upcoming meat grinder, then he's willing to look the other way. The caveat is that he won't save their asses from Krell when their plant actually goes off the rails.

Speaker: But we all know he's going to take the blame to cover for them and say it was his idea anyway. Because he's just that kind of guy. Mm-hmm. He's too good. Then I think you had some thoughts about Hardcase?

Speaker: Yeah, i was wondering if anyone wanted to lead in on what happens. give a general overview before I start screaming. Well, up well yeah yeah I guess you it'd be in poor taste.

Speaker: When has that stopped us before? To make a reference of like spinning is a good... Spinning is a good trip. It's good trip. No, no, it's what he would wanted.

Speaker: But I do agree with your opinion on you may take the floor. Yep, hard case doesn't make it out. Yeah.

Speaker: But it's fine. It's fine. I'm fine. Hardcase! No! That cowboy hat and motherfucker can't keep getting away with this. I don't care that we only got to know Hardcase over the course of these three episodes.

Speaker: He was a good boy and loved him. Like, this is far from the least okay and normal I've been about this show. That comes later because those episodes were also on my list of demands. But I need you all to know that I am not okay right now.

Speaker: I know Hardcase died doing what he loved, blowing up a bunch of shit in a massive fiery explosion, but the suddenness of it all still leaves me really even now. At the time of typing this, I don't know if Daryl's going to include the clip because I was too busy sobbing to grab the timestamps for it.

Speaker: And yeah, we just kind of like described it anyway, but just the way Hardcase fearlessly charges in knowing there's no other way to carry out their plan, but that they've come too far to give up now, and that with the sacrifice of one, the many he may yet live just destroys me. He starts out as this brash, bright-eyed, gregarious, irreverent, hyperactive chaos gremlin who isn't stupid or anything, but portrays himself as the kind of guy who prefers to blow shit up first and then think or ask questions never.

Speaker: He's known whole life that he's not here for a long time, but he's decided to be here for a good time. And if he can't find one, he'll make one. But as the arc progresses, he shows more and more emotion.

Speaker: ah Betsy, I'll say what why why I agree. What, sorry? Well, i feel the same way. He was a very heavy imposter. Don't talk to me about heavy!

Speaker: can't take this kind of emotional abuse! yeah absolutely that's why That's why I feel your pain for that same reason. Oh, but... Oh, God, what was I saying? Oh, as the art progresses, Heartcase shows more and more emotional intelligence every time he's on screen. It becomes increasingly apparent that this Chaos Gremlin persona is just that, a persona.

Speaker: It's his way of distanating distancing himself from the horrors of war and coping with all the death and carnage he sees day in and day out on the battlefield. Like, it's not purely in front.

Speaker: He absolutely does thrive on kaus chaos. And if there weren't a war going on, he'd be the kid, like, shooting off bottle rockets in his backyard. But he magnifies that part of his personality so he doesn't have to have the hard conversations with his brothers or with himself every time he watches another person die.

Speaker: But it's here in this arc when those whores come home to roost that he finds he can't maintain that, you know, like, devil-may-care front anymore. Like, not when that call is literally coming from inside the barracks.

Speaker: Like, you see it when he mentions his distaste for Krell's plans, when he steps in front of Fives and lies to Krell's face to cover their asses. Him, hard case. Just in all these small moments in between the big action set pieces.

Speaker: Like, when he can't put a bucket and a Z6 between himself and the rest of the galaxy. And you see it now when he jumps out without even a moment's hesitation to do what he knows must be done. like Even his last words, they aren't some quip or some jab at the enemy like this is a fucking Marvel movie.

Speaker: They're a benediction of hope that his sacrifice will save his brothers. That they can live to fight another day, even if it's just one day more. Daryl, I see you! We are talking about Amara, not Revelling Green.

Speaker: I knew you would see the opportunity. As if I didn't say what I said on purpose.

Speaker: But yeah, hard case, man.

Speaker: but yeah I know you're not here and you acknowledge that you are. possibly not in the best well safe, but if you were, i would definitely give you so some pats on the back. for Yeah, you don't want to do that right now.

Speaker: I don't know if it comes through the mic how congested I am, but... It does. it it I am a lot more well than my co-worker who came in with 103 degree fever today and spent most of her admin time passed out on the couch in the staff lounge, like, shaking.

Speaker: Daryl has a better microphone than I do to potentially convey you through. yeah but anyway, I talked about Hardcase, but I just, I can't not talk about my son again really quick.

Speaker: Just, I have... Oh no, just give you a second. Because I have to wonder just how much Hardcase's death weighs on five specifically. like He's lost so many people he was close to.

Speaker: Heavy, who we just talked about, but it's fine. Cut up. Droidbait, 99. And the one that probably hurts the most, Echo. Don't say anything.

Speaker: Daryl, play the clip. Spoilers. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, but now he has another name to add to this just ever-growing list he has of the dead. He's not the only one that carries that weight. They all do.

Speaker: But again, Fives is someone who wears his emotions on his face and his heart on his sleeve. And even though he knows how likely he is to lose them, he still gets attached to the people he cares about. Rather, he attaches himself to them. Because for him, it's those relationships that make any of this worth fighting for.

Speaker: like Everyone can see the long list of casualties following every battle. But you can't tell me that Fives isn't the type of person to pore over that long list of CT and CC numbers and remember the real names of the people he knew.

Speaker: So, yeah, the only thing I have to say about the end of this episode is just that. And to give that incoherent screeching some context, the unauthorized mission was a success and even Krell acknowledges it.

Speaker: But for disobeying direct orders, Krell plans to have Fives and Jesse tried for treason, where he says they will be found guilty and will be executed.

Speaker: And again I say, ah! Yeah. And thus endeth the episode. Bum bum bum! And that brings us to the final episode in the arc, Carnage of Krell, Season 4, Episode 10.

Speaker: Rex must make a dark choice as the true face of the energy, or energy, as the true face of the enemy emerges. Foreshadowing is a literary device.

Speaker: The horror. the horror would fit the description as the dark deeds heading into here as there is a reckoning. We open right away with this.

Speaker: General Krell, I respectfully request you reconsider court-martialing Fives and Jesse. The actions of ARC Trooper 5555 and CT 5597 were a clear act of treachery and disregard for my command.

Speaker: If punishment isn't swift, their defiance may inspire others to follow suit. Sir, the men are with you. It's just that some of them feel you're putting their lives in danger needlessly.

Speaker: All the more reason to send a clear message that I am in charge and insubordination will not be tolerated. The truth is, these clones have had a difficult time respecting my command since the beginning.

Speaker: I've seen it before. Some clones are just... defective. They aren't able to succumb to authority. You're right, Captain. I don't think I can court-martial them.

Speaker: It will only be a waste of time, and that's something we don't have. I'm afraid they'll need to be disposed of. Prepare a squad for execution. What? but But, sir... You heard me, Captain.

Speaker: Have it done immediately, or I'll do it myself.

Speaker: I'm pretty sure Pondcrown could have conveyed this a lot more recently in front of a very large Galactic Republic flag. Talking about you bringing an end to the Senate, to their cherished fleet, that kind of thing.

Speaker: oh no that cut that comes later this is just the warm up anyway after you know i called what it is what was it i called this clip rex wastes his time pleading with a sociopath yeah that's what i called it because yeah everything about this exchange is just so oh revealing like rex tries to plead fives in Jesse's case, but Krell just shuts him down about like, no!

Speaker: ARC 5555 and CT 5597 disobeyed me, so I have no choice but to murder them, because if I don't, other troopers might disobey me, because they watched those two do it, and definitely not because of anything I did, or how many of them I got killed every time we stepped outside. and Like, Crello's really out here talking like a kid.

Speaker: Oh, how tiny my Soto lightsabers are. Yeah, Crello's really out here talking like a kid who's mad his friends don't want to play his way, but instead of sulking about it, he's just going to straight up murder the other kids.

Speaker: And Rex is over here, like, trying to reassure him that, no, the other kids really do still want to play with him, but... Yeah, no. Genuinely, though, like, I don't know how Rex does it.

Speaker: They could use time out. Yeah, like, Rex does it, just like... He's already going for timeout....in the face of all that bullshit. Well, he he was made it. Because meanwhile, I'm over here plotting how to steal Krell's kneecaps and replace him with a swarm of live wasps.

Speaker: I was going to say bees, but the bees deserve better than sacrificing their lives to sting that monster. Plus, wasps can just keep on stinging. um Also, I'm not sure you can steal someone's kneecaps. and reflect Challenge accepted. it Don't ask me whose kneecaps I'm going to steal. It's fine. Don't worry about it.

Speaker: Please, someone with me. that i i will be wearing a knee patch You can try.

Speaker: so but like i forget if the pejorative term meat clinker has been thrown around yet by this point. But yeah, this is exactly what that's referring to. We already knew Krell thought at the clones is nothing more than like worthless drone-like automatons good for nothing more than just throw wave after wave of their bodies at the enemy to clear a path for the people that actually matter.

Speaker: But now Krell is just, you know, full-on saying that quiet part out loud right to Rex's face. Krell's diction here also just says a lot about his worldview. Like, he doesn't just expect the clones to obey authority. He specifically says he expects them to succumb to it.

Speaker: Like, at least obedience is a choice, but nope. Krell wants to just completely usurp whatever free will and sense of self the clones have, force them to carry out his plans no matter how suicidal, because they are physically capable whole of and they are physically incapable of doing otherwise.

Speaker: As far as he's concerned... Same thing with usurping their belief in the Galactic Republic. Both of them are... ingrown the idea of like, we are serving the grand army of the Republic.

Speaker: So everything they do does try to serve that. And he's basically saying, no, your actions serve me, which is above the grand army. Your actions serve betters. Because like as far as Krell's concerned, good soldiers follow orders. Foreshadowing is a literary device.

Speaker: Thank you. And if a clone isn't a good soldier, they're effective. It's It's interesting that you pointed out his choice of words, too. They are serving the Republic. Early on, back in the first episode of the Ark, I almost made a note about it, and then i either forgot or decided not to, that he refers he mentions that they're there to conquer Umbara.

Speaker: They're not there to occupy, they're not there you for any kind of spin-related benevolent. you You could say that- Liberate, you can say liberate.

Speaker: We were all there. but

Speaker: He own mission. He specifically says they're there to conquer Umbara. So he's very deliberate in his in his word choices. Yep, saying the quiet part out loud for everyone to hear and just, you know, carrying on. wherever That doesn't happen all these days, does it? Like, we've had battles and we've had liberations.

Speaker: In the entire series, it's like, liberation of Ryloth, the battle up of X. Yeah, there's there's not a bunch of people just saying the quiet parts loud these days. I don't know why you would even say anything like that. What are you implying?

Speaker: Nothing, absolutely nothing. is yeah everyone t To all the haters out there Clone Wars has nothing to do with all of this No, definitely not I don't know what any of you were talking about but yeah like Rex is just he is so close to breaking completely here and yet like somehow he's just still not close enough like he still takes a squad down to the rig and while he has the decency to tell Fives and Jesse personally and to their faces what it is that he's being told to do

Speaker: All he can offer are just like empty apologies and promises that Krell will get some sort of come up someday in the future. He tells them that he tried and like he definitely did. They know he did.

Speaker: But that's still pretty cold comfort. Like Fives and Jesse have to listen to the man that they followed into all nine Corellian L's and however many more exist in the Star Wars. and that they've trusted with their lives time and time again, and despite everything, they still do, tell them in no uncertain words that they're about to die. And not just that, but they're going to die at the hands of their own brothers.

Speaker: Like, this is what Krell meant when he talked about succumbing to orders. Rex wants to fight against him on this sort of thing with, like, everything that he has, but he doesn't. He gives up, rolls over, and obeys.

Speaker: Sort of.

Speaker: Because, I mean, there's no way to prove it. At least not for sure. I'm just saying, I think it's interesting that in assembling the firing squad, Kix and Tup were two of the riflemen. And, you know, I don't think it's insignificant that the shot lingered on the backs of their heads specifically as all the troopers walked by.

Speaker: and like, sure, you can say it's just because they happen to be named characters. But Tup is, like, basically still a baby. And Kix is the fucking medic. Not to mention they're going to be the ones most sympathetic to Fives and Jesse's cause.

Speaker: Like, they've got to be two of the worst possible picks for the Death Squad. Meanwhile, Dogma, the one who would actually pull the trigger with zero hesitation and arguably Krell's best pick to ensure his order really is followed, isn't handed a weapon at all.

Speaker: he' gros he throws messy He's He's Krell's besting. Like, I don't know how much of a hand Rex may have had in assembling this execution execution force, but I don't think it was an accident that It consisted of people he knew would never go through with killing their own brothers.

Speaker: And again, like, i don't know, maybe I'm giving Rex more credit than he deserves here, but Rex also isn't stupid. Even if he can't save them directly, there's nothing that says he can't try to make the circumstances more favorable.

Speaker: And oh, would you look at that? He still has plausible fiability because he never ordered them to miss. In fact, he was silent during that entire ordeal until the moment the whole firing squad dropped their blasters, after which he was suspiciously calm and collected and immediately condoned their choice to disobey.

Speaker: Like, I know he couldn't have for sure that this would work out in 5th Jesse's favor, but I think that maybe he was hoping the trust that he's always put in his troops and the trust he hopes they still have in him would carry the day, and lo behold, it did!

Speaker: I want to say, like, I agree with your potential theory here. It's just like, especially with bringing, Dogma had no reason to stand there.

Speaker: In terms of, this is a firing line. It honestly should have been done. further back, but it was done in front of everyone. I think Rex was making a stand and also trying to break through the dogma. Just like, this is wrong. Oh yeah, not only that, but no one was wearing their buckets while they were standing there leveling their blasters at Fives and Jesse.

Speaker: They were all actually showing their faces and they had to look them in the eye. Which it also would be against ah protocol. Usually you're supposed to not know... you're in it but they're you're all brothers, so like it's it's meant to be perverse and a broken version of like the firing line. was like If they were truly going to do it, they'd be wearing the buckets.

Speaker: like Maybe I'm wrong, but all I'm saying is that a lot of that was awfully convenient how it worked out. In terms of the storytelling, it does put it in favor that Rex was putting on a symbolic rebellion.

Speaker: And probably hoping to get Dogma, who is the closest to Krell at this moment, on their side. and And see how things are wrong. But it's going to take a little more than that to get Dogma on their side.

Speaker: But again, i do that's why I do love his name. His name is meant to be that it takes a lot more to break certain things. Some ideas. And we've talked before in other episodes about how the war is impacting the Jedi and and how they behave and things like that. And here comes Krell to be the first... Spoilers....example of that and it at an extreme.

Speaker: but We can probably safely conclude that He may have been a stickler for the rules before, but not to the point of being an outright danger to those around him, or in the case of clones serving under him.

Speaker: But being put in charge of... And also Revenant Jedi were never to be... generals that they were peacekeepers for long time being put in charge of others lives and taking the Jedi teaching of avoiding attachments to the extreme even if Krell isn't a darksider he's definitely not a good guy into a war setting and Rex my pronouns are captain and captain isn't taking this bullshit anymore so they get a transmission saying that the Umbarans may disguise themselves as clones eh

Speaker: Hmm. And then, after a brief firefight, the penny drops. Eh. Uh, to quote, uh, we just saw a cabin pressure, and we're crossing the line into Spec Ops, the line, territory.

Speaker: What?

Speaker: They're not environments! They're clones! Take off your helmets! Show them your naughty enemies!

Speaker: They're clones! Everyone, stop firing! Cease fire! They're not environments! They're clones! um

Speaker: Look! We're clones! We're all clones! I'm not crying yet! That comes in the middle it! I'm not crying! That comes right here because Rex goes to see Waxer, who's the other platoon's leader, and as Waxer dies, he reveals that Krell sent them to his coordinates to fight Umbarans in Clone Trooper Gear 2.

Speaker: the Fuck, you guys, I don't even have words for how not okay I am right now. Like, fucking hell, dude, I just... Hold on, hold on. I need a is... Okay, okay.

Speaker: You were next to me, Lauren. i I teared up during this, too, because it's a it's in it's so messed up. It's... ah It turns into, like, the concept of, like, Apollo Cooper.

Speaker: Like, oh my god, where do I even fucking start? This is just, like, friendly fire. is, like, beyond friendly fire conspiracy into, like,

Speaker: Deep... ten Again, Star Wars is supposed to be for kids, but no, this arc is not. This is some heavy stuff. Yeah, like, okay, oh Rex. Let's start with Rex.

Speaker: Okay, so, Krell told him he would regret crossing him, yeah, there are definitely regrets to be had right about now, but even if Krell, like, lied to them all, and told them all, and to the 212th, and, like, you know, told them who to shoot at, like, Rex was still the one who gave the order.

Speaker: He's still the one who told them to shoot at their own and shoot to kill. Then when he realizes what's happening, like, there's zero hesitation. He just runs headlong into a hail of blaster fire from both directions, yanking his helmet off if you go as he goes.

Speaker: And there's not an ounce of fear or any consideration that he might very well take a blaster bolt right between the eyes. All he cares about is stopping the bloodshed before anyone else murders another one of their own.

Speaker: But it's like, we see, like, there are casualties on both sides of this engagement, and it is... Yeah, because this is what just finally breaks my mind. Horrifying when you find out the afternoon.

Speaker: He killed his own brothers, his own siblings, other clones that he knows and is fought with and, you know, in some cases even, like, grew up with Back on Kamino. And he murdered them in cold blood and not whatever false intel he was given or, like, lies he was told or whatever other excuses, he still pulled the trigger.

Speaker: Like, that moment where he falls to his knees, the anguish just painted all over his face as he buries his head in his hands has haunted me just Ever since the first time I watched this episode some large number of years ago because it is just so, like, visceral.

Speaker: Again, these are Anakin and Obi-Wan's battalions. They are been serving in this conflict for at least two and a half years.

Speaker: they They fought side by side. they've They've intermingled, they've talked, they've been in the same barracks, and mess halls, and they killed each other in a senseless bloodbath. Speaking of moments that will forever haunt me, let's talk about Waxner, because wow, we haven't seen him in a while, not since he conspicuously stood on the periphery of the briefing three episodes ago.

Speaker: Yeah, remember that? Because I fucking do. ah Rex walks up to Waxer, immediately calling him by his name because, yeah, remember that thing I said, like, literally just a minute ago about him possibly murdering someone he knew, loved, and was close to? And, you know, that dick you just, like, added on to?

Speaker: His helmet, Waxer's helmet, has iconography for the Rhyloff. Yep, that's Numa right there! Because, yeah, that sure did happen, just like I was worried about.

Speaker: But no, not even that. it's like what has always stuck with me. It still hits me just as hard to this fucking day is Waxer himself. Like Rex acts what happened already fully well knowing the situation, but he still needs to hear it from Waxer himself.

Speaker: And Waxer is just lying there fighting through the pain to explain the situation. He's gasping for breath, struggling to get all the words out. And then like in his final moments, as he verbalizes that he shot at his own brothers, this single tear falls down his cheek.

Speaker: Like, right before he dies, allows his grave to escape him and does what we have never once up to this point seen a clone do. Cry. That's a level of vulnerability that these soldiers aren't even supposed to show. Like, they can grieve, yeah, but that's something to be done quietly and out of sight where it won't damage morale.

Speaker: And Wexer especially knows this. I mean, he was the squad leader. He knows he has to keep it together day in and day out. If only to keep the the people he leads from falling apart in the wake of his weakness. But this time, that goes out the window because war will always be full of horrors, but it's not supposed to be like this!

Speaker: Oh, and for those wondering, there is one other single time we will ever see a clone cry again in this series. And, you know, two times this has happened over seven seasons of television slash streaming and a show about war and death and everything falling to pieces as fascism takes hold. So, yeah, this one moment of a fucking kid show is really fucking significant and has lived in my head rent-free and will continue to do so until whenever I finally fucking die.

Speaker: but I'm fine. It's fine. I'm fine. No, this messed me up when I was watching it too. I was like, I went into Clone Wars, but this is a kid's show. I appreciate see how it's heard, but this arc was like, and this this is a war story. This was a war story, and it hit on all those emotional bits.

Speaker: And also, it was horrifying to even conceptualize. But its like like to conceptualize it, it's basically like to the commander basically had two groups fight each other for no other reason. But like again, like I appreciate it how like confused they are.

Speaker: How could this have happened? This is horrifying. It's unprecedented. And you can understand why their next sponsor's like, recompense. because that's where Rex just gathers them all together. And he's like, look, guys.

Speaker: This is going to be treason, what we're about to do, but yeah, we're going to go arrest the hell out of Krell because he's a fucking traitor to the Republic. We're going to arrest him for treason, and he's also an asshole, and I hate him.

Speaker: I do love that he does contain it as, this is doing justice. this We are arresting him. We will put him before a military tribunal and a Jedi.

Speaker: don't know what Rex is actually thinking. But we have to do it ourselves. Oh, deep down, he's he's struggling with vengeance, but that's also a major part of, like, Star Wars as a whole.

Speaker: Vengeance and justice. How do you act in a concept? disease Again, he has every right to be angry and to strike in anger, but he is acting with the clone troopers to say...

Speaker: We must arrest him and he must face proper justice. One thing I can't help but point out, like after Rex gives his new order to arrest Krell and all of them start like marching back towards the airbase, we've talked about, you know, the symbolism of the helmets and, but this is where Rex puts his helmet back on.

Speaker: Like from the time we see him yank it off in the face of friendly fire up until this exact moment, he's kept his helmet off and his face uncovered, remaining exposed and vulnerable. Like as was several times before,

Speaker: Rex kept his helmet off. And a lot of the 212 doesn't put back their helmets on. lot of the 212 don't. Because as if to prove the fact that they're proving against the lie that Krell did. The 212 is... Yeah, just like as with several times before, Rex kept his helmet off when he wanted to speak to his fellow clones as a man. like It's just another person.

Speaker: and it's only now right before marching on Krell specifically that the helmet goes back on, because Krell doesn't deserve Rex's humanity. In the fight to come, Rex will be facing Captain Rex, soldier of the 501st, and Rex isn't going to hold anything back, even if that means putting his own humanity aside for the moment.

Speaker: i mean, after all. That's not what Krell wanted from the beginning! Don't say it to Koromest and all that, right? Yep, but it's also him reasserting his leadership.

Speaker: He is like all the clone troopers have like individual markings on their helmets and it's like he's reasserting like no no I'm the captain now.

Speaker: I'm in charge and he is a traitor. He's distinguishing himself as a leader against Krell in that moment and that is his sort of strong moment.

Speaker: They're good boys and I care about them a lot but I'm fine. I mean, I hear about them a normal amount. It's fine. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They march in there, and then Krell is seriously like referring to them as creatures bred in some laboratory. like I don't even know what to say.

Speaker: don't have words. like Motherfucker. i he he's pa on He's full on evil mode now. And now that the jig is up with Krell, let's talk Clancy Brown for a minute.

Speaker: yes I love Clancy Brown. Oh, yes. He's an amazing character actor. And we've heard his voice before in Clone Wars. And this won't be the last time that we hear or see him in Star Wars.

Speaker: But just him. But also, as someone who's grown up it throughout the ninety s No, no, no, don't spoil it yet. Let Daryl finish. just having that distinctive voice for Krell should tell us that something's not right with him.

Speaker: Since he has so many memorable villains to his credit. You've got the Kurgan. You've got Lex Luthor. You've got Savage Opress. And you've got a bunch of other credits of villains.

Speaker: But he's also done... A fair number of good guys. I never watched Earth 2, but I've heard that people really loved his character on on a that short-lived TV show.

Speaker: and he's he he's He's one of those that guys. And whether he's playing a good guy or a bad guy, you know you're going to get a good performance.

Speaker: And you know, coincidentally enough... After I typed these notes last night, I you know closed out of of Clone Wars.

Speaker: And it was on cable on a rerun of an episode of Star Trek Enterprise with Clancy Brown in it.

Speaker: Nice.

Speaker: but But yeah, he's he's done... He's done enough good guys and his voice is so so resonant and booming that you're like, okay, he's not necessarily going to be a full-on bad guy just because Clancy Brown is voicing him.

Speaker: they But it's a voice that fits this character model. and But no, no. ah he Incredibly. was going say, now, Nick, you can say the thing but that we all know.

Speaker: but you also have to know that he's also one of the most iconic of the early 90s, of the late 90s animation fans.

Speaker: He's Mr. Krabs. Daryl, you have no taste. You go wouldn't let your son watch SpongeBob. That is a cultural touchstone. sure. for because Robert Xander doesn't get any of the SpongeBob references we make half the time and the only ones he does is because he heard them other places. yeah Oh my god, you're right!

Speaker: He doesn't! I'm so disappointed in you and your wife for this. Nails on a chalkboard. Nails on a chalkboard. the characters of the SpongeBob Xander, this is the money. He's a grown-ass man at this point. I'm not denying him access to anything.

Speaker: Yeah, but it doesn't hit the same as when you were a kid. Nails on a chalkboard to me, that's all I have to say. so But... Then, you know, they go to confront Krell.

Speaker: General Krell, you're being relieved of duty.

Speaker: It's treason, then.

Speaker: Surrender, General. You're committing mutiny, Captain. Explain your actions. My actions? for ordering your troops against one another.

Speaker: Oh, that. I'm surprised you were able to figure it out. full There it is again. Take a shot. so let's let's put a pin in that it's treason then line and remember it when we watch a future entry in Star Wars and see also Krell's incredulity at the clones daring to attack a Jedi.

Speaker: Spoilers. There's a lot to work with there. yeah There's some... Can I just take a moment to note that in a very unsubtle arc, it's especially unsubtle that, and we've mentioned it a couple of times already, the clone who's been sticking with Krell and following his orders unquestioningly the whole time is named Dogma.

Speaker: Yeah. It's like, Star Wars... But I will say, like, it... Star Wars has been pretty liberal of like, using, like, different, like, names and, like, things, like, to be exact what they are. So, like, it makes sense.

Speaker: And honestly, it fits the character arc for here because this is a much more intense arc. but So it's fine to have, like, someone that's like, yeah, his name is Dogma. He follows Dogma.

Speaker: So it's like... It's part of the naming convention. What's that post that Star Wars has three types of guys? It's on the nose for a reason. Something from, or, yeah, like Slump Grabo from the Wormpley system, Stab a Bad Guy Man, and Chris. Yeah.

Speaker: And so then Rex and Dogma have a little conversation then. yeah Lower your weapon, Dogma. I... I can't do that, sir. That's an order.

Speaker: It's my duty.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: ah used to believe that being a good soldier meant doing everything they told you that's how they engineered us but were not droidits were not programmed you have to learn to make your own decisions

Speaker: dogma don't do it

Speaker: take him to the brick yeah I didn't actually write like full census here, but I just need to yell about Dogma for a little bit. like We've touched on his name a whole bunch, and I know I touched on it a bit earlier, but it's just, there are a lot of ways in which like I'm frustrated with Dogma, and yet I just have so much like sympathy for him. Because I think so much of his like willfully ignoring the stuff that's right in front of him goes back to like what I said earlier about him just

Speaker: fearing losing control or not being able to, like, maintain that grip on just the things that are in front of him. He, his name says it all where, you know, in his mind, everything should always adhere to the way it was written. Everything should be by the book. It's more than just Echo, like, you know, getting his name from Echoing back Most clones make their names.

Speaker: Most clones choose their name or are given their name. So it's equal parts as possibly he just was just like from the start out that he just like was the guy that just like read everything out. He could have easily been called Dogma and accepted it or also just like called himself Dogma because he's like he believed all the stuff. But like it's even more so than like You know, we originally meet Echo back in the day. He's called that because of his penchant for echoing the regs, the things that he's seen written and, you know, all the rules and regulations and all that.

Speaker: But Dogma takes that so much further. Because it's not just like repeating them, but then using them as needed in the field. He lives by them. His code is just word for word, to the letter, everything that he was taught. And he can't handle a reality where that doesn't still fit into the things that are in front of him.

Speaker: He went into just everything about being a soldier, expecting that everything he read by the book was going to hold. That everything was going to proceed according to plan, that You know, nothing was ever going to fly out of control like this.

Speaker: He just doesn't know how to reckon with the things that are right in front of him. What? Sorry. but see I actually have something I would want to add into. have something would want to add into that.

Speaker: I think he just believed whatever general he was in was given to. He would follow Anakin whenever Anakin did anything. And he'd fall upon Krell because, well, he's a general.

Speaker: It's because of what the general represents to him. He would never question of that. Like, the inherent power structure that he is supposed to serve under. And also by, like, you know, succumbing to orders and obeying and letting someone else take control, in a way it also grants him, like, not freedom necessarily, but, like, it takes away some of the responsibility. He doesn't have to make the hard choices in those moments.

Speaker: He just has to do what he's told. And, you know, there's a bit of comfort in that, I think. and he Because he trusts and truly believes. He trusts and believes. It's fully, it's like, my general is in my acting, in my best interest.

Speaker: And that's what I believe in. And if I truly believe that he's acting in my best interest, then I don't have to ask the hard questions. But here he is, faced with a place where he can't stop asking those hard questions.

Speaker: Because it's literally right in front of his face. Hell, he literally helped shoot his own brothers. He's watching this happen. Like all this death and destruction that's completely senseless and needless.

Speaker: And he's still trying to cling to what he wants to believe is true. At this point, I don't think he really truly believes it anymore, but he's trying to convince himself that he does so he can just hold on to some semblance of this little bit of control and stability he thinks he still has. Because if he loses that, then he loses everything that he knows to be true about himself and his place in the sport. prove that the call true You know, I have a thought on that, but it will fit a little bit true there in a couple of minutes, so I'm going to i'm goingnna put a pin in that.

Speaker: it's like It is true that like this is where we see like there are some clone troopers that are like do like fit in the mold, the old school like legends version of clone troopers. They'll follow orders of the letter.

Speaker: with a little bit of leniency. It's like, no, no, there's a whole bunch of them that are like, but some of them do like, I'm like, no, no, i I believe full, I'm drinking all the Kool-Aid.

Speaker: The rest of them is like, no, we yeah, except that things are more complicated. Yeah. But at the same time, I don't know if I would necessarily put dogma under that category because I don't think it's just that he's drinking the Kool-Aid. I think for him, this is a coping skill.

Speaker: This is how he copes with the brutality that he sees in front of him. And it's not healthy and it's not working, but it's the only way he knows how. This is how he's been able to survive this long. It's a complicated thing. And it's only now it's been challenged and he realizes that it's not going to work, that he's really truly struggling. Honestly, I would have loved to see see an episode where Anakin and Dogma interacted. Just to see, like...

Speaker: where he fit it. Because, again, Anakin's not the regular Jedi General. And see him interact with a more, like, extreme Jedi Jedi. Just something I would have liked to see. hey And now Krell has a complete mental break.

Speaker: He goes full villain. But the clones manage to capture him and lock him up. Top, you're doing amazing, sweetie. They grow up so fast.

Speaker: And locked up, they they go, Rex goes to confront Krell, planning basically to execute him. And I have this clip described here in the notes as Krell monologues in a not at all relevant to current events way.

Speaker: hey Why, General? Why kill your own men?

Speaker: Because I can. Because you fell for it. Because you're inferior. But you're a Jedi. How could you? A Jedi? I am no longer naive enough to be a Jedi.

Speaker: A new power is rising. I've foreseen it. The Jedi are going to lose this war and the Republic will be ripped apart from the inside. In its place is going to rise a new order, and I will rule as part of it.

Speaker: You're a separatist. I serve no one's side. Only my own. And soon, my new master. You're an agent of Dooku.

Speaker: Not yet. But when I get out of here, I will be. After I've succeeded in driving the Republic from Umbara, the Count will reward my actions and make me his new apprentice.

Speaker: How could you do this? You had my trust, my loyalty. I followed all of your orders, and you made me kill my brothers!

Speaker: That's because you were the biggest fool of them all, Dogma. I counted on blind loyalty like yours to make my plan succeed. Yeah...

Speaker: yeah There's a lot to say about this, but I will... Because we are... And spoiler alert, I've been talking about Vietnam War films.

Speaker: And I'm going to bring another one. Are you an assassin? From Apocalypse Now. But also from earlier in the Clone Wars.

Speaker: who will strike first and brand themselves a cold-blooded killer from Voyage of Tentation. There's a whole lot of interest, like how like war and betrayal and everything is all sort of built into this story. And this highlights the fact that the Jedi are falling to the dark side.

Speaker: Slowly but surely as the war goes on because again, they're meant to be guardians of peace and justice, not warfighting. Well, and just like the intro in our last episode, it's impossible to look at the themes included in Clone Wars in a Vacuum.

Speaker: So this episode first aired in November 2011. twenty eleven ah Here we are, we're recording this in October 2025, and Krell's answer as to why he killed his own men, because I can, because you fell for it, because you're inferior, then laughing in Dogma's face because his blind loyalty was essential to accomplishing Krell's goals, certainly has some significance in today's world.

Speaker: And across time as well. Mm-hmm, and, you know, something, something, Rancor's eating faces? Something yeah else that's interesting to note, too, is that nothing that Krell said was wrong.

Speaker: It was not a lie. It was entirely... Nope. Foreshattering is a literary device. We're gonna get so much use out of that! Pong Krell did it predict...

Speaker: And again, the Jedi, especially Jedi Masters, like Bonkrell, are able to see the future to a degree. ah a thought that I had here...

Speaker: And just while we're recording, Palpatine asked personally for Anakin. yeah Yeah, I mentioned that at the very beginning. And Krell inserted in in charge of Anakin's troops.

Speaker: and And Krell has ambitions of joining Dooku as Dooku's apprentice. Because at this point, he is a Sith Lord.

Speaker: Yeah, I don't think Krell had any elute any remote idea that Palpatine was involved. Obviously, though. He's a pawn. yeah But I do think that if but if he had survived, I think I know what his what his purpose would have been post the rise of the Empire.

Speaker: Because it's implied that... Oh yeah, he would have fended well with that crowd. but it' Because it's implied that Palpatine... He would have been right at home. For lack of a better term. and Likely a good term.

Speaker: Grooming... Helicopter go burr! Certain Jedi to become individuals in the future order. Helicopter go burr! And then, you know and granted, this came years after Clone Wars was made.

Speaker: It's not implied at all the the novel Rise of the Red Blade outright states that Sidious has plants, not like vegetables, but operatives, working in the Jedi Temple to kind of nudge some Jedi towards yeah future agents.

Speaker: Yeah, the vegetables are what he wants to make of the clones. But that's a discussion. you a Probably. Oh wait, is that spoilers? hi ah Pretend I said nothing. He doesn't know about the spinning.

Speaker: But with Obi-Wan's squad having captured the capital, the remaining Umbarans are reported to be heading to attack the airbase that the clones are at.

Speaker: And given the possibility that the Umbarans could win, free Krell, and be gladly handed any intel he has, Rex agrees that they need to execute him.

Speaker: And Krell taunts him. Noting his fear despite having the power over Krell. He even asked him you you know Do you like having that power over me that kind of thing?

Speaker: but then dogma who they'd freed is the one who shoots and kills Krell mid taunt and This is yet another moment. you Earlier I mentioned the line that reminded me of Saving Private Ryan, this reminds me of Saving Private Ryan 2, where Upham shoots Steamboat Willie at the end.

Speaker: Yeah. That's a good comparison. It is ultimately like it's a background arc, but it is entirely dogless arc, but going from that to actually...

Speaker: taking in an accident that would have turned... like Rex even was trembling that, even though he had every right to do so.

Speaker: But if he did so, he would... Anakin would have to struggle to fight for him. Anakin would fight for him, but it would be a hard fight. Also, there's a difference between you know blowing up droids on the battlefield and executing someone who's on their knees in front of you.

Speaker: Like, no matter what they did, that's still a very different situation. That's still war crime. Yeah, but also, Nick, you mentioned one of my favorite parts from The Voyage of Temptation, and, you know, I feel like that's a little relevant here with Dogma, too. Because what I'm realizing is that with Dogma, it's honestly kind of like the inverse of Anakin there. Well, that's why i wanted to, because it is, again, like,

Speaker: you can't You can't separate Captain Rex from Anakin. Anakin and them are still like poetry. They rhyme. Are i going to hit the button?

Speaker: Again, it's like poetry, so they rhyme. who Like, you can't separate Rex and Anakin, but for me, I'm specifically thinking of Anakin and Dogma and comparing them, because it very much, in this case, feels like it's the inverse of that situation, where Anakin just, you know, completely blase, stabs him through the heart, like,

Speaker: What? He was going to blow up the ship. It was just a smart play to make. You're welcome. Where, you know, like nothing to it. I'm just going to stab him and move on with my life. But here Dogma, it's like, it seems like it was, it was a split second decision where, you know, I've talked about how Rex was slowly breaking over time, but this is where Dogma is finally himself broken for real, where he's been forced to reckon with just all how much he willfully blinded himself to and what those decisions have meant, like what the consequences of his actions are.

Speaker: And I think at this point, it's just like, he doesn't care what happens next because he's going to have to struggle to live with himself from here on out, knowing what he did. And even though it's something that he wouldn't- Can I reiterate the actual lie?

Speaker: Who will strike first and brand themselves a cold-blooded killer?

Speaker: Dogma was not... Yeah, Anakin's a cold-blooded killer. Dogma, on the other hand, not so much. he He regretted that. He regretted his actions beforehand.

Speaker: He regretted his actions afterwards, and he accepted the punishment afterwards. Despite him doing the right thing. The only thing he really didn't regret was finally shooting Krell and putting an end to the nightmare. Because he The right thing.

Speaker: Unlike Anakin. Who regardless of the right thing. Would have killed. Has always been stab happy. Would have considered that the right thing. But he would never accept.

Speaker: A punishment. For doing the right thing. And I think this is where. Dogma kind of like. you know Flips his namesake on its head. Where finally.

Speaker: That dogma is no longer. the rules and regulations and everything by the book. It's now kind of like what Rex said about how, you know, he follows his code. Now Dogma is finally letting himself determine what matters to him and what's important to him. This is him making a stand for himself and fighting for what he believes in for probably the first time in his entire fucking life.

Speaker: This is him making a choice, accepting the consequences, instead of letting someone else make the choices for him, Because if someone else is making the choices, they aren't his consequences to bear. This time, it's his problem 100% of the way.

Speaker: But he's willing to accept that. Because this time it means something and it's worth it for him. And again, this this is Anakin's voice. I really love that. je if It's Anakin's voice. And it's something that they'll all have to learn.

Speaker: Like, Anakin has been playing fast and lose with the rules. And they played faster before it was here, but they they when they had to do something really intense, one of them was like, I'm going to accept the consequences of the actions.

Speaker: I killed the commander. i did something wrong. And then the episode closes on fives and wrecks, ruminating on the fact that the war will end someday, but what then?

Speaker: They're soldiers. What do soldiers do without an enemy to fight? And Nick, this reminded you of, you like I was reminded of Saving Private Ryan a couple of times in this.

Speaker: You were reminded of another another war movie. Yep. I think now, looking back, we did not fight the enemy.

Speaker: We fought ourselves. And the enemy was in us. Yes. And that's that's kind of what I feel is the point of this whole arc.

Speaker: It's not like so many like misconstrue it. It's like, oh, they fought each other. like, no, it's like. The clones here were entirely the focus of the arc.

Speaker: The entire understanding. They fought with what they understood about themselves, who they were, how they operate. And in the last last line, what what next?

Speaker: They're beginning to grapple with the fact that like if there's an end to the war... Who are they then? And again, that's even if they make it through it, they've also been through like intense, incredible, horrible terrors of war, especially in this one conflict. Again, it again its it's very much like when people say like, this is the Vietnam War arc of the Clone Wars. It's not just a cutesy way of saying it. It's like, no, it's a very deep underpriced,

Speaker: moment where we have to look at these soldiers, these people, and what they go through. And they've been changed heavily at the end of the conflict.

Speaker: Yep, absolutely. So that's why I chose that line as my final like piece on that. Because again, like I made certain like some of them were a bit funny, but it was like, yeah, World War, Vietnam War movies were all about examining Who and what is a soldier? What does it mean to sacrifice and do some horrible things, do some good things, do some bad things for people that you don't care about and people that are ordering you into nothing.

Speaker: It's a, it's a, it's a kid's cell, but it's like, it's examined like every part of that, like, just like, you can entirely examine it and from this entire arc, from a Vietnam War perspective, and get so many thoughts from it. That's why I chose that quote. It's like, that makes the most sense.

Speaker: It's like what this arc meant. Conspicuously, as we've been talking for nearly two and a half hours, Lauren has been yeah very quiet and Typically, I know what that means. And we had a breakthrough when Lauren guested on how we roll gaming on the last episode on why that probably is.

Speaker: to So, oh, you're you're still here. You haven't left. because Yeah, yeah, I'm still here. You haven't left because you're bored this arc.

Speaker: Hey now. to hear you breathing. But so let's just go ahead and ask it. So what did you think of this arc? Well, first of all, there there is one thread that y'all never actually brought up somehow that I noticed, and it was the fact that near the beginning, Rex talks to Krell, and he says that usually Anakin fights alongside his soldiers, while Krell is staying in the back, not actively helping them and in the attack. Oh, you're right! Yeah.

Speaker: He justifies that somehow. i don't remember what the specifics are because that was months ago at this point. But he doesn't do it well. Yeah. And this becomes relevant yeah this this becomes relevant later ah for another element that y'all kind of glossed over is whenever the clones try to, you know, 76 him, basically.

Speaker: And he jumps off into the forest and disappears and they have to take him down. The reason why they're able to take him down is because they have familiarized themselves with the environment and the creatures therein. Particularly a rather bizarre tentacled creature that they end up using their knowledge of to capture him.

Speaker: ah And so it was the fact that it was the fact that he sat back and let the clones do all the fighting that was his Achilles heel in the end. that That's right. Yeah. yeah But I will say that on the whole, you know, pre in the previous episode, I talked about how my ideal Star Wars thing would be focusing on basically Ahsoka and the droids going to weird planets and and just doing weird stuff.

Speaker: Because I'm, admittedly, i am not actually here for the clones, or for the wars, for that matter. I'm here for the stars, more than anything else.

Speaker: And we noted that what I described is actually much closer to a Star Trek than it is Star Wars in any of its iterations.

Speaker: And so perhaps going forward, the future of Clone Watch won't actually be, but maybe it won't even be Star Wars related at all. Maybe the future of this series is to start analyzing the Star Trek franchise and its various iterations.

Speaker: And you know, there given what you enjoy about what what you have enjoyed most about Clone Wars and and other things, you would love Star Trek Prodigy.

Speaker: I see. i i don't think i'm I'm familiar with that one. It is a two-season and then unceremoniously canceled, fairly recent ah andnna animated kid series. you know but Roughly same same age range as Clone Wars.

Speaker: Nice. But um it it's about a ragtag band of misfit kids who come across an experimental Starfleet ship and decide that they are its crew.

Speaker: Nice. And the wacky misadventures that they have. the I do think that I'd want to definitely check out The Next Generation, though. And also maybe Janeway's show, because that's the one that I watched growing up, and looking back at it again would be interesting. Well, here here is another hook for Prodigy for you.

Speaker: You know how every kid's show in that kind of mold, like I just described, has to have the mentor figure? The mentor figure is a hologram projected aboard the ship that they find of Janeway.

Speaker: Oh, lovely. It is a Janeway AI hologram. Okay, I love that. And then in season two, Janeway herself becomes a regular character. Not just the AI, flesh and blood, Admiral Janeway. Oh, that's No, it is not her lizard baby.

Speaker: Janeway? No! Apparently they did reference the the lizard love children of Janeway and Paris on Lower Decks at some point.

Speaker: At least someone referenced it. Oh! Yeah, going back to the actual question at hand, like you knows ah you know, there was a lot of cool stuff in here. I definitely liked the design of the world and the technology and, you know, the alien creatures that they dealt with. Oh, yeah.

Speaker: i I mentioned in my notes that I didn't really put down here that the way that lightsabers look on Umbara is very intimidating, very intense, very cool, and it's very fitting considering that the Jedi character involved ends up becoming the antagonist of the overall narrative.

Speaker: you know But also the world is itself dark, so it's not necessarily that the... The environment is dark, but it's like the character is dark. But, yeah, on the whole, it just doesn't really focus on the stuff that I'm really that invested in with Star Wars on the whole.

Speaker: So, you know, like I can acknowledge the fact that it's very well made, but it doesn't, none of it really resonated with me that strongly. That is a fair answer. Mm-hmm.

Speaker: That is a fair You know, it's interesting, Lauren. I feel like the stuff that resonates with you is the opposite of the stuff that resonates with me. find that so it' interesting. Because you guys are very similar in terms of, like, especially from, like, the roleplay games we play over each other. You guys are pretty simplicate-go.

Speaker: Aligned. I didn't really understand what you were saying there. Yeah, me neither. I think you cut out for a sec. That's very similar and very aligned.

Speaker: You mean when she torments me with Homestuck references? Well, that's just all of us with the hell side. i its been like It turns like whenever there's like a bit or anything or something you find interesting, you both sort of pick up and it's unusual that you guys pick Interestingly, so Betsy, whenever it comes to Homestuck, there are a lot of different reasons why somebody might like Homestuck. There are a lot of elements to it.

Speaker: the The elements that I was always most attracted to were specifically but the game that they play, Sperb. I was always most interested in analyzing the gameplay mechanics, the aspect, and the class elements.

Speaker: though That was always my focus with the webcomic, and also it's why I haven't connected with any of the materials that have come out since then, Because, like, whether it's the sequel or the games, they both fundamentally dropped S-Verb as a concept in general.

Speaker: And so that makes me wonder, what were the elements that connected with you with Homestuck? Mm-hmm. The characters. I am always here for, like, good character-driven narratives what's going to So basically what you're saying is that the sequel, the the the epilogues and Homestuck Squared were, you know, that that's that's the story that follows the characters. If you're into the characters, that is what is, at least it's what's meant for you,

Speaker: It's not whether it's... sixteen but Yeah, I was going to say, it might be meant for me in theory, not so much in practice, but that's a whole other... Yeah, because the problem with me is that there is no sequel content that is meant for but someone like me, basically.

Speaker: Yeah, because genuinely for me, like, when it comes to the stuff that I enjoy, it I mostly just latch on to, like, strong character-driven narratives, whether it's characters that I can identify with, characters that I can despise. just Those are the things that really get me because that's what makes me care about the story as a whole.

Speaker: Honestly, that does make me think like maybe we could ah amend Clone Wars and you could just end out Wars. We'll see what happens. if if you want Because trust me, this a lot there's a lot of things that don't really...

Speaker: I'd have to sell you on some products, but it's like, I definite i definitely, I did talk with them that we're going to watch Star Wars Visions before next next season.

Speaker: And I think they'll really like those, but it's like, yeah, and I don't think I'd have to really sell you on some other prop things, and I don't want to move you to Star Wars forever.

Speaker: And I think... And it's just a VASPA franchise. I think Ew, not be me. i I am on too many streams. Well, Nick, if you're already on Netflix, I would say that's why Prodigy might be a good place to start, even though chronologically it wouldn't be first, because it's on Netflix, not Paramount+. plus Oh boy. And it's only two... Yes.

Speaker: And it's only two seasons long. Really? We'll see how we finish off Clone Watch. Let's get to the end of this episode. It has occurred to me that in 19 episodes of Clone Watch, 24 episodes, or 23 previous episodes total of Casual Nerdity...

Speaker: We've never plugged our socials. we are We are casual nerdity on Facebook, Instagram, Blue Sky, Threads, and what whatever they're calling Twitter this week.

Speaker: um Yeah, yep. You know what I call it. And also on YouTube, where you can also find find the show that you're listening to now. so Feel free to interact with us.

Speaker: Most of the posts so far are just posting announcements of the episodes, but we definitely want to try to interact a little bit more. And if you... Respectfully, you're going to be interacting with them because don't have those social media sites. Well, respectfully, it's me because I'm the one that has the account information.

Speaker: ah Yes. me Me or or our chaos coordinator, Stephanie, who has access to those. But, or you can feel free to shoot an email to podcast at casualnerdity.com.

Speaker: And, but yeah, we've had an email all along. It's just the what the web, the website is pretty bare right now. And I, I need to try to fix the engine for the, for the website.

Speaker: Yeah. to get things to post properly. It's probably good you're plugging them because I didn't know we had any of those. Because I have been remiss in plugging them all along. So... Actually,

Speaker: they are... This is a good episode. ah Glad to have everyone here. Thank you all for putting up with me. We love you, Betsy. It's not putting up with you, except when you come to me as we're about to hit record and say there's one more clip.

Speaker: yeah

Speaker: it important okay but thank you ah and i know i have a good friend of the show uh oh is that the one that you said is your friend that was commenting how he appreciates my well i don't think you said he said unhingedness but yeah let's call it that Yeah, you can say Unhinged, it's okay. yeah I know what I'm about. got more Clone Watch coming up, and we are also working on a another comics-related episode here in the near future on the subject of fridging characters in comics.

Speaker: And you know I'm going to be here for that one. Absolutely. Wouldn't have it any other way. right You couldn't keep me out of that episode if you tried. Oh, boy. yeah In the meantime, perfect time for the winter time. No, it's funny. One of my kids literally put a figurine of a woman in a plastic toy fridge today, and I just commented on the fact that, like, hey, you know that that's actually, like, a pretty harmful trope, right, dude?

Speaker: No shit you not this happened at like 4.50pm like 10 minutes before he was supposed to go home. Please tell me that there was a Green Lantern action figure somewhere nearby. No unfortunately the DC stuff was in a different room.

Speaker: That was in room 9 we were in room 6. oh

Speaker: Oh, wait. What's going to happen? Oh, goodness. What's going to happen in the absence? Don't worry about it. We want to thank everybody for listening. I'm sure it's fine. We hope to have you back sometime soon, and we will see you next time.

Speaker: Bye. Bye. This has been Casual Nerdity. We hope you've enjoyed your time with us and look forward to having you back.

Speaker: you