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Fantastic Four: First Steps
37 Plays5 months ago
It's the summer of super-heroes! And a great one, at that. Daryl, Nick, Lauren, & Betsy talk about Fantastic Four: First Steps. From design, to character, to comics influences, to...more infant car seat talk than you'd expect from discussion of a super-hero movie. Take a listen, and see what they thought. (Spoiler alert: They liked it.)
- 00:00 Introduction
- 03:34 Non-spoiler discussion begins
- 29:06 Spoiler discussion begins
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Transcript
Introduction to Casual Nerdity
00:00:10
Speaker
Casual Nerdity is a podcast celebrating and discussing pop culture that we love. Movies, TVs, comics, books, games, you name it. Our aim is to talk about the good, what worked, and yeah, sometimes what didn't.
00:00:22
Speaker
All with an eye towards building up, not tearing down. Thanks for joining us.
Meet the Fantastic Four
00:00:38
Speaker
Famous around the world... Please welcome the Fantastic Four.
00:00:47
Speaker
Mr. Fantastic. Invisible Woman.
00:00:55
Speaker
Human torch. love you, Johnny. And the thing. Hey, what time is it? Say the thing. That's not really something I say. It's clobbering time.
00:01:07
Speaker
That's just in the cartoon. Yeah. Welcome back to Casual Nerdity. We're going to be talking. We're going to be talking Fantastic Four First Steps.
00:01:18
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Woo. Woo. So the the motley assemblage of our own Fantastic Four today is going to be... It's me, as always. I'm Daryl.
00:01:33
Speaker
I'm Nick. I'm Lauren. And I'm Betsy, because they can't get rid of me! Yay! We need to just make you a permanent co-host. Yeah, but that would be less fun, because then I'm not, you know, crashing various episodes.
00:01:50
Speaker
I mean... i mean like Would that make you the the silver surfer of it of our group? You know what? I'll take it. She was hot. She was. This is true.
00:02:01
Speaker
And, and yeah I mean, Johnny agreed. yeah And I do kind of know how to surf. I'm not good at it, but I do technically know how. You're always unleashing new skills upon the world.
00:02:15
Speaker
Well, you are from... ah You are a California girl. Yeah, I mean, you know, it wasn't that hard to find a way to learn. I literally went to what was called Camp Surf as a kid.
00:02:26
Speaker
We went there like once a year for the weekend with an organization whose name we no longer speak. Oh, god that one. I think it's now Adventure Princesses, which is a hell of a lot less racist.
00:02:41
Speaker
Granted, the bar was like, you know, hell.
Spoilers Discussion
00:02:43
Speaker
As always, when we're discussing a movie, especially a new one that has just recently come out, first we're going to give some general thoughts, some non-spoilers. We did the title of it.
00:02:56
Speaker
We did the full title. We did. Fantastic Four First Steps. It's the Fantastic Four First Steps. okay Oh, okay. Oh, well then, okay.
00:03:07
Speaker
Man, and I thought I was the pedantic one. Right? Um, actually... No, that's later. There's going to be a lot of that. Yeah, that comes later. Yes. So as a group, we went to see it yesterday. And as always, ah we're going to have a non-spoiler section.
00:03:25
Speaker
We will give everyone listening an alert and include a timestamp in the notes when we get into spoiler territory. And um in some ways, I am honestly confused about what makes...
00:03:40
Speaker
what major plot points in this movie are spoilers and which aren't given how some of things that in other movies I would really consider to be big, big act transition plot points and spoilers were just kind of out there in the trailers and the TV ads. Like,
00:04:00
Speaker
One of the most recent TV ads made me say, what, really? We're we're saying that in the commercials? but you know the fact that We are massive comic nerds, so they do impact a little harder, but they're also like major plot points.
00:04:14
Speaker
So yeah, it is a point where like, yeah, the little lines are pretty They're pretty blurred. So we're just going to cover just general reactions and general notes about design type stuff and things like that. I have things to say about that. And just as somebody who personally does not care about spoilers whatsoever, don't think I'm going to be saying much myself since I really have no idea what people would or would not like to hear about a section like this. so I'll just leave this part to y'all.
00:04:52
Speaker
I did not realize that your name was Paul and you're leaving this to y'all. Yep, that's it. There's some stuff that we're going to hit. um I think Nick had ah had a couple of bits that he wanted to talk about first in non-spoilery stuff.
00:05:09
Speaker
Maybe we keep it short. is There is a lot to praise without spoiling too much more about the plot or anything.
Fantastic Four's Theme and Design
00:05:20
Speaker
but uh especially because of the marketing something that's been heavily in the in the marketing is the fantastic four theme it might be the biggest huge earworm of the year it's just so catchy and yet perfect it's so
00:05:44
Speaker
evocative of like the space aids the ah sort of drama and excitement it's honestly I have not been able to get out of my head the entire time it's a proper rival to the Avengers theme which feels appropriate but also feels like that big new Marvel thing that you can hear Well, and there's also kind of a very much, and I think Betsy has some comparisons to this later on.
00:06:21
Speaker
It just occurred to me listening to that snippet underneath you as as you were talking, it has that very like Tomorrowland, March to the Future kind of kind of vibe to it.
00:06:36
Speaker
Oh yeah, 100%. um In fact, what immediately just sprung to mind is Batman Mask of the Phantasm when they're at the Gotham World's Fair and the Welcome to the World of the Future pavilion song.
00:06:53
Speaker
But again, that's also, it's very much like classic, like, yes, behind the scenes, yes, we're now in a Disney-owned Fantastic Four, but yeah, they fantastic.
00:07:05
Speaker
harkening back to like what the fantastic four is about like that tomorrow land aesthetic retro future fallout style literally like in the sky back in disney when they had that monsanto house the future thing yeah big plasticky thing yeah and the the great big beautiful tomorrow like I went there and was like in 2011. It was literally called the House of the Future and Monsanto was responsible for it.
00:07:38
Speaker
and it wass Which is interesting. Yeah. but I won't get into that my feelings about Monsanto because that's a whole other topic we don't have time for. boy. But we're talking about the vibes. We're talking about the vibes. Right. And so I do want to just you echo something that I said last episode when we were talking about Superman that I really appreciate that we appear to be entering...
00:08:01
Speaker
a new phase of adapting superhero comics. you No pun intended, since this is the start of Marvel's Phase 6 of the MCU. But we're entering a phase of adapting superhero comics where we don't have to spend the entire first act or even the entire first movie telling an origin story.
00:08:22
Speaker
We get a few lines of text, a few lines of dialogue to establish. Here's what's happening. Let's go. We don't have to see Martha Wayne's pearls hit the pavement again. We don't have to see Krypton explode again.
00:08:36
Speaker
We don't have to see Uncle Ben killed again. it especially bold because, again, this is the fourth attempt at a Fantastic Four.
00:08:49
Speaker
Maybe even the fifth. No, it's the fourth. I don't know if we count 1994. If we are counting... well We're not counting the sequel. I'm just saying.
00:09:04
Speaker
was saying, nick Nick's probably not counting the sequel in that that's the same cast crew oh yeah director. Yeah, but it was also somehow worse than the first one.
00:09:18
Speaker
We're not getting into that. We're just getting into the fact that this is the fourth reintroduction of Marvel's first family.
Fantastic Four in the MCU
00:09:26
Speaker
Fitting. Actually, so either way you slice it, it's the fourth. It's the fourth iteration of the FF in a movie form, but it's also, since the one in 94 was never really released, it's the fourth Fantastic Four movie to hit the big screen.
00:09:45
Speaker
Yeah, the 94 one's a technicality. But they do acknowledge it heavily in in some Easter eggs. but we'll get the the The cast is in it. But here's the main factor. It's just that delightful.
00:09:59
Speaker
hello It is delightful. But the main factor is like this is Marvel's first family. And this is the start of the sixth phase of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
00:10:13
Speaker
And it's a strong sewing. But it's also... not it's It's giving all its omazes, all of its sort of work into making a strong film, but also accepting when it's it' set during the 1960s, when Marvel really became big beacon of of comic book history.
00:10:40
Speaker
Well, they they made a nice touch in that The FF in the movie became the Fantastic Four in 1961, which is when the Fantastic Four comic was released.
00:10:52
Speaker
Yes. It's very much a both a return to form, but and also a homage to where Marvel began. And it's kind of beautiful in that, because this was how the Marvel Universe in, well, our world...
00:11:10
Speaker
really started yes so it's nice that even in this alternate universe in the most successful cinematic universe acknowledges this point and it plays it straight plays it fun plays it as a it's just really nice oh yeah Now, the obligatory thats Betsy ah talking a point. So, take it away, wink.
00:11:43
Speaker
Yeah, because I need to yell about costume design and also, like, set design slash prop design for a sec, because just, I thought that 60. I'd say a little bit to put in there, too, but ah yeah that's after you.
00:11:56
Speaker
Okay, yeah, because, no, I thought the 60s retro futurism looked just so fucking good. Like, For one, it's just such a breath of fresh air to see something besides like you know the dark, heavy, blocky, grim 80s aesthetic that's dominated media. like Don't get me wrong, I love cyberpunk, and i totally agree that also like as a genre slash aesthetic, it's super relevant right now.
00:12:19
Speaker
But it's just like, I think there's something to be said for something that you know looks like and kind of represents the antithesis of you know everything going on outside. Because that's really what early 1960s America was, just an era of optimism.
00:12:33
Speaker
you know Before everything went to shit, it was genuinely a time of hope for a future. like I won't bore everybody and get into the actual like his history shenanigans, but in a nutshell, think like JFK, social programs, general prosperity, etc. etc.
00:12:50
Speaker
Yeah, yeah but like you can just really see that optimism reflected in every bit of the design of this movie. Like it's full of just light color, soft curves, everything has like an air of physical lightness, you know, versus like the heaviness and kind of the clunkiness of everything in the aforementioned 80s style tech.
00:13:09
Speaker
Like even the FF super suits have a soft texture and look like they're made out of kind of like a sweater knit. And there's also a lot of white in the color palette and a use of negative space, which I think is interesting.
00:13:22
Speaker
But rather than like emptiness or a lack of something, I feel like the negative space that's being used invokes more an idea of like a blank canvas. Like there's space ready for whatever good thing is able to come next.
00:13:34
Speaker
Or maybe even just like, you know, it's left blank intentionally because things are perfect as they are. Google also told me that Alexandra Byrne, the costume designer, apparently spent forever just trying to find, like, the right shade of blue for the costumes.
00:13:49
Speaker
And I don't even want to know how many she had to go through or how blue her hands ended up because somehow fabric dye always finds a way to dye your hands no matter how di diligent you are with wearing gloves. But I did want to ask you because you came out of that and it was something that I've seen both.
00:14:06
Speaker
I asked myself and also seen multiple people in multiple videos that I've seen about have strong feelings about Mr. Fantastic's design.
00:14:17
Speaker
And specifically like Reed's design having less white on his costume. and similar design for this. I've heard some certain ideas. and like There's both from like the in-universe and the and the sort of sort of outside sort of practicality.
00:14:41
Speaker
Here's what I've heard. He doesn't have as much white on his costume because it distinguishes him as the leader of the Fantastic Four. And from the practicality, from the outside practicality of, it makes it easier to animate his pretziness when it's just a singular color.
00:15:03
Speaker
What do you think on that? Yeah, because I do have thoughts on this. And, you know, I can honestly think of a number of reasons why his suit is all blue. Like, you know, minus the logo and the white is only in the accessories.
00:15:15
Speaker
And some of those are, you know, like some of the ones you mentioned are just more practical, right? Like, you mentioned some, but another one is that, for example, like, all the suits between the different characters have a slightly different neckline, except for Reed and Sue, who both have a similar turtleneck.
00:15:31
Speaker
So, in a way, you know, taking away the white from his would differentiate them and keep the costumes from looking too samey. ah You made a point about, like, the animation. like there are a whole bunch of reasons outside of that, but then there are also some things like... outside yeah Yeah, but there's also, like, some character-related reasons I can think of.
00:15:49
Speaker
One of which so I just said five seconds ago. I agree to be with the leader. That's why I said, like, leader, he's, like, he's all blue. Everyone else has little bit on that.
00:16:00
Speaker
Like, there's ways to, like, examine it both in and outside of the side of the the picture. Yeah. But, you know, I also had some other ideas that are more, like, in relation to, like,
00:16:13
Speaker
deliberate choices made because of his character. One of those I literally had five seconds ago, which is his suit is all blue. i die you know Yeah. Reed's biggest thing is like, you know, his brain.
00:16:26
Speaker
So instead of like a separation between like his body and brain, which that white could represent, it's all blue. So there's no break between how like his intelligence and his thoughts relate to everything else he does is like a superhero, even with the stretchy powers.
00:16:43
Speaker
Which is a thing that, yeah, that literally just occurred me five seconds ago. But there's also, like, you know, think... Oh, actually, could I make... I'm sorry to apologize on that, but, like, that could also fix with his character that he's constantly guilting over the fact that he didn't intend for the four to become the Fantastic Four and is kind of guilty about that.
00:17:06
Speaker
I have thoughts on that later. oh Well, there we go. that that's something we can pull back on later. Back on track for you. Yeah, but then there's also another thought I had.
00:17:18
Speaker
like i think maybe the lack of white in Reed's costume also aligns with his characterization because you know i I also have this whole big thing about Reed's characterization I'm going to talk about later, but you know um for now I'm just going to sum it up like we said is Reed is the warrior of the team and he's always thinking of worst case scenarios and contingencies and planning for what to do anytime something goes wrong.
00:17:41
Speaker
yeah was what That was, why but without, without spoiling that, that is it probably the best character in the series the free that I've ever heard in a, in a single sentence.
00:17:53
Speaker
Yeah. So like what I've got to get is, you know, as a character, he has a ton on his plate and his brain is more or less full to bursting with everything he's decided to take on so that there's almost no room to possibly fit anything else.
00:18:06
Speaker
So with that in mind, I think it makes a lot of sense and is rather telling that his is the only suit without any negative space, which is what the white is. like You do have the white on his accessories.
00:18:18
Speaker
Those were things that were deliberately deliberately added on after. So many extra space he has only exists because he went out of his way to build it. Also, that idea of a representation space happens to be located specifically in parts of the costume that are the last on and the first to be and the first to be taken off.
00:18:38
Speaker
But also wouldn't wouldn't be affected by his stretchiness. It's aesthetic. like it He recognized it. That wouldn't like stretch or break anything. Yeah, but even outside the practicality, just like, you know, from him as a character standpoint.
00:18:53
Speaker
But that also gets into that beyond the accessories, there is also one other place where there is white, and it's the only place where you will find white on the suit itself. And that is in the logo.
00:19:05
Speaker
And, you know, just for funsies, little thought experiment here, you guys tell me, where on the suit is the logo? Like, which part of the body is it located on? It's like, upper center chest is what I have always seen in the comics.
00:19:18
Speaker
Uh-huh. And what organ is specifically usually located in that part of the body? Here's a hint. It's of the cardiovascular system. Pump's blood. The spleen.
00:19:29
Speaker
Haha, very funny. That's not what the spleen is, by the way. Yes, the heart. And then what, or rather who, recently came into Reads and the entire Fantastic Four's life that he would need to make space for, not temporarily, but permanently and eternally? Herbie.
00:19:47
Speaker
Herbie. I think Harvey's been there for a while, but yes, Franklin. And, you know, so where in the body would one metaphorically make space for a new loved one in their life?
00:19:59
Speaker
Oh, that great scene. I rest my case. I'm just saying. That is the one place on the suit where there is negative space, where there is room for something else to be added. Are you the only ones taking this seriously right now?
00:20:13
Speaker
The only ones taking this seriously right now. I mean, literally, these are more or less rhetorical questions because everyone knows what the answers are. And I was expecting this regardless. It all comes back to Kingdom Hearts. That's that's what's important. There we go. Yeah, like, maybe I'm reading way too much into it, but fuck it, who cares? The curtains are blue, and so is the suit.
00:20:31
Speaker
This isn't subtext. is subtex this is it's actual text. But I agree with you that it's got great production design. One of the designers working on it also came up with the kind of similar retro futuristic look of the TVA in the Loki series.
00:20:50
Speaker
um But... The idea of a world impacted by the Fantastic Four's existence beyond just them fighting bad guys occasionally, um it reminds me a bit of the stepping off point of a 1999 miniseries that Marvel did called Fantastic Four Big Time.
00:21:10
Speaker
And even though it was the Fantastic Four in the title, it had all of the Marvel characters in it. And the conceit of it was that Reed and Tony Stark and others actually changed the functioning of the world in a fundamental way with their advanced technology.
Character Dynamics and Development
00:21:31
Speaker
And that's always really a challenge and a fine line to walk when you're wanting to set these larger-than-life elements like superheroes and aliens and advanced technology that somebody whips up in a cave with a box of scraps.
00:21:48
Speaker
into the world outside your window, like Marvel always used to say. And yeah it's something that, you know, it's kind of nice and coincidental again, this July, we've seen it twice this month, handled really gracefully in comic adaptations.
00:22:11
Speaker
And with FF, some of that grace comes from borrowing ideas from Mark Waid and Mike Waringo's run on the comic in the early two thousand oh for anyone who hasn't read it out there, part of Wade's take on the book, and and I checked the special thanks section of the closing credits, Wade and Ringo were in there, in the special thanks. They were. But it was hinted at in the movie, even though it wasn't stated outright, but Reed intentionally made the four of them into celebrities after their accident to make up for what he saw as his mistake and ruining their lives. And especially his guilt.
00:22:57
Speaker
Yeah. Specifically his guilt in making his best friend into a monster. how That would be the thing that I think the most regular audiences would be surprised by it that there is no like, like,
00:23:12
Speaker
there there is no There is no brooding about, oh, I'm a monster now, because Ben's been living this life for four years now. We can skip right to the part where he just gets to be the person he is.
00:23:26
Speaker
yeah i may have something to say about multiple of the points that you just brought up a little bit later on down the line. sure you do want to see a whole lot of purple at the very end. and There are some things that I've There are some things that feel like I do wish we had that, because that is a very interesting and important arc.
00:23:46
Speaker
But we've seen that twice already. I would like a better version of that, but that's that's my personal opinion. How many times do you need to see the pearls hit the sidewalk?
00:24:02
Speaker
That and, like, honestly, I think there's something to be said for skipping right to a version of Ben who's literally just comfortable in his own skin and is happy. and that's it. That's all I'm against. I think it's nice to just skip right to that part so that, you know, as much as...
00:24:19
Speaker
that's a compelling story point and like a compelling character point. It's also something that we've seen done so much. And I think it also just kind of fits with the message of this movie where it's, you know, people kind of finding their place in this the general like positivity and hope for the future.
00:24:39
Speaker
And I'd say personally, I didn't like those previous versions. and I would like a better one. I have an entirely different opinion about this that I'll be getting into later.
00:24:51
Speaker
me that might be my words for Mark run is also, i believe, the first to put Sue in charge of the business side the Fantastic Four.
00:25:05
Speaker
but And he's also... one of the first ones to add more thoughtful layers to Johnny beyond the girl crazy hothead. And yes, writers always intended that pun.
00:25:18
Speaker
Well, of course. I mean, it was right there. Naturally. oh I love, I love, I don't want you guys to think that I was like, trying like be like, I, I was saying like, I wish there was a better version of the classic thing relationship different than anything else. I was just saying like,
00:25:38
Speaker
I really liked it.
00:25:41
Speaker
There's a whole lot I love about this. Well, you know what? Nick, we'll have more chance to talk about that later. Whenever I yeah get into it more deeply. i don't want to be able to think that i'm I'm speaking out of hand or like I'm making mistakes.
00:25:55
Speaker
Because I did really like this film and I loved what it did. and There's a small things I felt like they could do better that I would have liked. Mm-hmm.
00:26:06
Speaker
Taking off and copying the production and set design.
00:26:12
Speaker
This came from the same director of WandaVision. Which was a great retro television aesthetic. Fitting of the 50s, 60s, Disney and Tomorrowland retro futurism style.
00:26:28
Speaker
Present in franchises like The Jetsons, Fallout, and other great things, but also fitting within the MCU with, like, the TVA scene in Loki, seasons 1 and 2, also in Deadpool and Wolverine, and could allow us a whole lot of interesting developments, like seeing Reed Richards' future son, Nathaniel Richards, wink, wink, a.k.a.
00:27:02
Speaker
Kang the Conqueror or a variant of him. yet there ah Who? that That individual has been completely wiped from the MCU.
00:27:13
Speaker
There is no Kang. More like Kang the retconned. Yes. I see what you did there. But in some very real ways, while i'm I'm excited, don't get me wrong, to see the Fantastic Four and the X-Men join the rest of the MCU and see all of these characters able to interact you whenever...
00:27:35
Speaker
But I almost wish that we could keep the FF separate on this world of theirs because it's so unique and so much work was put into developing it that it almost seems a shame to lose it when everything, when when all of the action figures get smashed together.
00:27:56
Speaker
And the locations a la Battleworld? Well, I was... I wasn't thinking that literally Battleworld when saying smash together, but yeah. Get your secret wars on, y'all.
00:28:08
Speaker
I'm just saying, I know you mentioned secret wars later. Yeah, that that was not an intentional reference here. That was just, you know, just speaking in general. And I'm the one who's getting smacked down.
00:28:21
Speaker
Yes.
00:28:24
Speaker
But, you know, you were talking about smashing together, and what's a more literal sense of that? That's true. yeah The only one doing more smashing in the Marvel Universe is the Hulk.
00:28:35
Speaker
so but Actually, he's not doing enough smashing, if you ask me. Yeah, not lately. Well, he thinks it's kind of gratuitous. Maybe it's just too overdone. Too on the nose.
00:28:47
Speaker
I think we've kind of hit the point that most anything that we say is potentially a spoiler now. So we'll go ahead, we'll hit a little cue here, give everybody time to to pause a little bit um before we go on into spoiler territory. Hey, what time is it? Say the thing. That's not really something I say.
00:29:11
Speaker
It's clobbering time! That's just in the cartoon. Hey, what time is it? It's dinner time. Get inside. What time is it, Ben? No. What time is it, Ben?
00:29:22
Speaker
No, Johnny. Say it! I don't wanna! Say it! It's spoiler time. Oh, we're gonna go nuts.
00:29:33
Speaker
Now you wanna get nuts? Come on! Let's get nuts. and Just for you, Nick. Just for you. There's a reason my note in our little note stock was, Daryl, you know what to do.
00:29:46
Speaker
yes Yes. and we withers We talked about that before. Yeah, we talked about it. and We have indeed talked about it. First up, spoiler-wise, i mean it's not a spoiler that Galactus is in this.
00:30:00
Speaker
And it's not a spoiler that he looks comic accurate. But... Galactus, remember when Fox thought a giant in blue and purple armor with antlers would be too goofy, so they changed him into a giant cloud?
00:30:17
Speaker
so Yeah, weren' weren't the early... Please take us seriously, days of superhero movies. Great. I mean, I guess you could sort of justify it by the fact that every species sees Galactus differently. So like, well, I mean, that's very rhetorical that's a rhetorical question. Yeah. Thank you for providing an answer.
00:30:38
Speaker
It is actual for the answer, but also it's like, yeah you're cowards. yeah can Yeah, they are. Yeah. Yeah, so but this Galactus looks like he came out of a comic.
00:30:51
Speaker
And despite being a giant in blue and purple armor with antlers, he was scared as hell. Oh, yeah. No, for real, though. And was like, guys, come on.
00:31:03
Speaker
You already have a dude with stretchy powers, a lady with himvisly invisibility powers that makes force fields, a guy who is literally made of rocks. and a guy whose entire power set involves lighting himself on fire.
00:31:14
Speaker
They drive a flying car and live in a Manhattan high-rise complete with a rocket science lab, both of which they somehow will afford on researcher's salary. I really don't think a huge armored dude with an antlered helmet and bottomless pit for a stomach is that weird by comparison.
00:31:27
Speaker
Well, here I come with the, well, actually, about the researcher's salary, look at how many patents and inventions Reed has made for the advanced tech in this world.
00:31:38
Speaker
Plus, he's licensed the team out for the cartoon and for toys, like the little toy in the breakfast cereal that Johnny gets out, and the comic. We we see the Timely Comics office, which what is cleverly clearly meant to be stan and jack and pages of an comic on the wall these are celebrities not just a researcher yeah but like not to um actually you're um actually but then you know like patents aren't worth that much on their own until somebody buys them which they did but it takes a while together is all i'm saying and even with those in licensing together it's a high rise with a view of times square that takes like
00:32:15
Speaker
Musk route money. Oh, no. Wait, he keeps fucking up his finances. Never mind. Bezos money. There we go. All I'm saying is I think Galactus looking like, you know, Galactus is far from the most fantastical thing they got going for him.
00:32:28
Speaker
Well, and yeah, clearly people have been buying the patents and building the products for it because of the tech that we see in use. So they've been the FF for four years and got to space and the moon years before the real world did.
00:32:44
Speaker
so I'm just saying, I think my point that, you know, Galactus being Galactus is not the silliest thing still stands. Actually...
00:32:55
Speaker
Daryl, can I make my um actually? Oh no, it's another um actually. Oh no! if sorry um We've started something horrible. andly Um actually. more This is before 1969.
00:33:09
Speaker
nineteen sixty nine So we've reached the moon beforehand, likely by the Fantastic Four. We know it's by the Fantastic Four because there's a found a a future Foundation flag on the moon when Galactus passes by.
00:33:23
Speaker
Which was a nice touch. It was beautiful. And it's supposedly roughly around like 1932. nineteen thirty sixty five like It's 65 in the movie. when and And the comic shows him with, and there's a comic that does show him dealing with the moment man issue where Reed and the Fantastic Four are meeting with JFK and his wife in the classic pink Yeah, she's wearing she's wearing the assassination suit in the prequel comic.
00:33:58
Speaker
She really is. I mean, it was iconic. But... I'm not done yet. oh he's He's going. They do lift off and go into space and create a wormhole into space getting out there.
00:34:18
Speaker
They get back based on the current thing and The end of the movie is 1969, which is supposed to be our moonlots.
00:34:31
Speaker
Yeah. So I'm just saying like incredible man about the of technology was done in that four years of the Fantastic Four.
00:34:42
Speaker
Yeah, i mean, Reed's not just sitting around. Ben, this gives us an excuse to talk about how, despite being as smart or smarter than someone else in the franchise, like, say, Tony Stark, Reed is a different kind of genius.
00:35:00
Speaker
The way that go the level the way Pedro Pascal presents him, the way the writing frames him, Reed is the brilliance and weight of worrying about what's around the corner without the hubris and narcissism of Stark.
00:35:20
Speaker
And he's almost naive rounded in his brilliance. And I'm reminded of a throwaway gag in an issue of John Byrne's run of the comic. The holidays are over in this scene. And it's kind of appropriate, given that most of this movie takes us from Thanksgiving to late November, early December.
00:35:40
Speaker
And they're sitting in their quarters in the Baxter building. And Sue's talking about how beautiful their Christmas tree that year was. And that it's a shame that they're unlikely to have such a good tree again, because it's so beautiful. She wishes that, you know, they could have it forever and read very nonchalantly. Well, you know, it just so happens. And he stretches up there and he flips switch on the tree topper and it all folds down into this bundle. Yeah.
00:36:09
Speaker
I mean, and ornaments and all, it folds down into this bundle that's like the size of a mop bucket. and ah he yeah And we can put it out again next year. And she totally, like, she turns invisible. She is pissed off at him that he made, her exact words were something along the lines of, how could you do something so practical?
00:36:35
Speaker
And I could see that scene play out between Pedro Pascal and Vanessa Kirby.
00:36:45
Speaker
say, but I don't... I feel like you all have probably better things to me to say, so I might as well not say. yeah No, go ahead. Go ahead. you just you You caught me in mid-sentence, man. You gotta wait your turn! was rolling.
00:36:59
Speaker
What you got, Nick? This is probably the best... interpretation of the fantastic four period in terms of all of them are scientists brilliant incredible people they have their own like unique fields so oh i'm gonna be getting into this later yeah there's a reason i didn't keep going about characters i saw what you had later that's an incredible social skills
00:37:31
Speaker
Because Reed is a massive science nerd. Ben, he is an incredible pilot.
00:37:41
Speaker
He knows everything, and he's able to, like, curve things. it' Even during, like, the big, like, ah fight against the Silver Surfer.
00:37:53
Speaker
And ultimately, like, my favorite character, came like, it's Johnny. He's still... A NASA level scientist. ANSA.
00:38:05
Speaker
ANSA in this universe. It's not NASA in this universe. It's ANSA. Well, actually. The point still stands. Yes. It still stands.
00:38:17
Speaker
And he is part of the whole plan. Ultimately, like, it's not, this movie is a true Fantastic Four movie. Everyone.
00:38:28
Speaker
Everyone. Everyone contributes. Every little piece. I will be going deeper into all of them later. and and But as a fan of the Fantastic Four of Marvel, I was just wanted to say, like you have that right.
00:38:46
Speaker
I will let you guys go into those stuff because they did it. It's it's a true Fantastic Four flick. They're all contributing. No one is like Yeah, they they make fun of each other. They're there the first family they're a family. and so they we We could describe that post.
00:39:08
Speaker
But like yeah, every one of them is important in this movie. Very much so. Next oh yeah next step. ah vade like I think Reed's characterization is really good.
00:39:22
Speaker
And I like how his own like pessimism and his tendency to catastrophize just directly contrast the optimism that's everywhere else in the visual language of the film. Like, how that juxtaposition kind of tempers the unfettered optimism of everything else and, you know, going back to the 60s aesthetic, wow, words are hard, continues to just kind of embody the mood of the time period, too, and how, like, you know, for all the hope and positivity, there was also a whole bunch of other shit building up in the background that more or less appended all of that optimism, which is more or less what everyone usually thinks of when you mention the 60s anyway.
00:39:57
Speaker
That and that level of pessimism and the worry, I think, is also a big part of what keeps the movie itself grounded. And, you know, this is two episodes in a row that we've talked about quote-unquote grounding movies with outlandish elements like superheroes, not by trying to make it realistic,
00:40:20
Speaker
and I'm doing heavy air quotes around realistic.
Superhero Realism and Leadership
00:40:24
Speaker
i Very heavy. But by making it internally consistent and believable within its own rules and exploring the characters, not saying let's take this outlandish element and put it in the real world and see how the real world would react, but let's go to these characters' worlds and see how it works.
00:40:51
Speaker
And it works in practice so well! It sure does. It does. Like, in this movie, it's so clearly it's so clear that how hope exists right alongside despair, and we can see that it doesn't take much to tip the scales in either direction.
00:41:08
Speaker
I think a big part of that juxtaposition comes from the fact that Reed seems to think that he needs to take on all of that worry and plan for every contingency. Like, he sees everyone being all... Sorry, what?
00:41:20
Speaker
yeah That's Reed Richards. He's picking up everything, all the worst possible things. Yeah, but it's like he sees everyone being all like happy and hopeful and carefree around him, which obviously he thinks is good because of course he wants that for everybody.
00:41:36
Speaker
But he's also like, somebody has to think about the future and plan for when, because for him, it's a when, not if things go wrong. So he's made it his job, his responsibility to carry that worry and fear and pessimism for basically every other person on the planet.
00:41:51
Speaker
And then there's this sense that like part of it is noble sacrifice, but the majority of it, I think, is just an attempt to protect everyone else from experiencing the things he carries. This movie makes it human. It's like he does convey that. And yes, he conveys that to his wife.
00:42:11
Speaker
Yeah, like he says out loud to Sue that he deliberately thinks of all the worst possible scenarios, so no one else has to because he honestly mistakenly thinks he can somehow like actually do that.
00:42:22
Speaker
And that's I think where his humility and his willingness to sacrifice becomes read to Marsha, because in taking on and that like all by himself, or, you know, at least trying to. He actually ends up pushing the people he loves away. Like he doesn't want to share what he thinks of as his burden, but his attempting to protect others also serves to cut off a vital point of connection.
00:42:42
Speaker
Like vulnerability is uncomfortable, but it's also a foundational part of building trust. And speaking of trust, his trying to shield others can also like kind of come off as him not trusting people to be able to carry that weight.
00:42:53
Speaker
like he thinks they're too weak to bear it themselves. And that's not even getting into how he's burning himself out trying to carry things that were never his to carry in the first place. Plus, it's only by letting the rest of his family help carry the fear and worry and despair he spent so long trying to hold alone That he actually finds the space to think of a workable solution for the Galactus problem.
00:43:11
Speaker
Also, like I gotta wonder if part of the reason the rest of the public were so ready to sacrifice a literal infant to a planet-devouring superbeing they know fuck all about instead of trying to figure out a way to you know not do that is because this is one of the first times they've experienced that level of genuine fear since like the FF became a thing.
00:43:31
Speaker
like that Maybe Ria's insistence on carrying everyone else's fear meant that when they were faced with something that couldn't be handed off, they immediately panicked and were therefore just all too willing to accept something like child sacrifice.
00:43:43
Speaker
So it's like his attempt to protect everyone came back and bit everyone in the ass too. i agree with entirely all of that. And I completely agree with that. But did want to say like I want to be on the... i know that may sound crazy...
00:43:58
Speaker
be on the side and of both of them. like It's like, it's a mother a father of a child.
00:44:09
Speaker
They, it's basically, they're trying to like do the, if you look back in like historical or like biblical joints, like the, like sacrificing a child it's like,
00:44:24
Speaker
It's insane. It sounds crazy. it It sounds monsters, but they're working through it. I felt they managed to make this movie, make it so interesting, and that they turned it into, like, they view the whole world as heroes.
00:44:44
Speaker
The world is them. Something that just occurred to me while while you were talking, Betsy, is that... Again, there's there's a lot of parallels in the two big superhero movies that came out this month.
00:45:00
Speaker
Because Superman begins with us being told in the three years that he's been Superman, the fight that started right before the movie started is the first one that he's lost.
00:45:15
Speaker
And them going off and facing Galactus and coming back Immediately, they're rushed in front of a podium and in front of the press, and everyone assumes that they defeated Galactus because they came back.
00:45:33
Speaker
Yeah, i got basically, a god.
00:45:38
Speaker
For all intents and purposes, as far as we can tell, i mean, by the fact that they're still around, this is the first time that the FF have lost Galactus.
00:45:51
Speaker
And yeah i and it makes everyone it makes everyone panic. The whole world panics. But I would say that this is what I believe. like Doctor Doom does exist, but he's not a consistent threat.
00:46:09
Speaker
He exists, but it iss not a he's not trying to take over the world. One other thing too, that this is, every everyone has this panic. The entire world has this panic and they go for one of a better term, you know, to put it in a pop culture reference, everybody goes into Spock in wrath of Khan mode.
00:46:35
Speaker
oh then yeah wait and The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one feed the kid, the baby that's been here for two minutes. ah feed i think Feed Galactus the baby.
00:46:50
Speaker
And I did want to say, like, that's one of the most brave and incredible moments of this movie. It's like, do you want to sacrifice an innocent child?
00:47:03
Speaker
Speaking of Reed's burden and... After what I have written out here, this whole train of thought has has had me thinking of other things with it too.
00:47:17
Speaker
But speaking of his burden, giving friends given that Franklin in this movie has the power cosmic and Galactus wants Franklin to take his place...
00:47:29
Speaker
I guess Pedro Pascal is continuing his streak of compelling roles as father figures protecting a magical child. Though this one is his bio child for once.
00:47:42
Speaker
Oh boy. Yes. But it occurs to me too that... But it's his most powerful child now. But they...
00:47:53
Speaker
in all of this that we've been talking about the last couple of minutes where everyone's panicking and is like, just, you know, and feed the monster, the kid.
00:48:05
Speaker
um it's It's telling you, Reed is taking all of these burdens upon himself, thinking of all of the worst case scenarios. And he even says out loud at the dinner table one night, well, you know, the the math is that doing that is you ah simple and efficient answer.
00:48:26
Speaker
And... Sue is like, yeah the Sue is basically, fuck you. yeah. oh yeah yeah He's like, has to follow her and say, I would never do it, but that's the math.
00:48:43
Speaker
Although it's how he thinks. Right. You know me, I hate math, but I can also accept, like, in the character that that's how he thinks, that's what he does. It's like, he does, and, but also he was like, yes, I thought that way.
00:48:58
Speaker
i thought that way. Honestly, it goes back to my interpretation of Luke Skywalker in in The Last Jedi. He had that one moment of, I need to stop this individual, and I was left with shame.
00:49:16
Speaker
And the same way with him, with Reed. He's like, yes, in the mathematical person of my mind, it made sense. but It's not what i want.
00:49:27
Speaker
It's not what i want. it's It's never what I want. Yeah. And it leads to an illustration of so the two different ways that Reed and Sue think and operate and complement one another.
00:49:40
Speaker
And what makes, you throughout the years, ah except when writers are trying to turn Reed into a near evil dick. um It makes them so complimentary and such a good good pairing that play off of one another.
00:49:58
Speaker
In that he expresses, yes, this is the cold and rational easiest solution. At which point, Sue proceeds to take Franklin, go outside, and appeal to everyone's emotion.
00:50:17
Speaker
Hmm. I have thoughts to say about that later that I didn't write down, but I suddenly have, but yeah, I will get there later. But also a scene right around this time when it's, it's Reed with Franklin and he goes in and, and earlier in the movie, he built this scanner cause he was constantly worried that their altered genes would somehow pass along to Franklin and be a problem.
00:50:46
Speaker
I do want to also add to everyone that's listening in, this movie isn't terribly long, but there's so much that you can read into it. It didn't need to be long. No. it it told It hit everything that it needed to hit.
00:51:03
Speaker
and There's so much that you can take like little moments like what we're doing right now to... but Reed really hit Reed goes in and and he's, he's in the room with that scanner and he's just talking to Franklin and he's, well, you know, I, I built this because I was worried and I, I was concerned and wanted to be sure of what you were going to be. But I was worried that you might have my flaws and,
00:51:35
Speaker
Because i am a very flawed person and I make the mistakes that I make are huge. But maybe I'm just going to let you tell me who you are and what you are.
00:51:51
Speaker
who And I am so glad that the grognards have not latched on to the so To the very, very crystal clear subtext in that scene. Because that is not accidental subtext.
00:52:05
Speaker
No, it is not. That's text. That is just text. They're too busy still screaming about Superman. Of course. So they have not latched on to that scene yet of...
00:52:20
Speaker
Oh, and Superman's, like, making great money. It's out of out of context. yeah and It's making great money. oh yeah Yeah, but now even in context, I have a lot of feelings about that line, because just also in general, like, because of the nature of my job, I just have a lot of thoughts about how, like, people think of and treat kids.
00:52:41
Speaker
And, you know, this kind of, like, really aligns with that, and how it's, like, he's sitting here looking for what is ostensibly a problem, something wrong with his kid, instead of just, you know, letting his kid be who he is. And this is kind of him realizing maybe there's nothing wrong with my kid at all. Maybe my kid is just, you know, a tiny human being who is going to live his own life and make his own mistakes. And I just have to let him figure that out. Actually,
00:53:07
Speaker
Actually, i I came with a similar but different. like It doesn't matter who you are. You are... Honestly, I felt that it was like a beautiful sign from read it the smartest man on Earth.
Family Dynamics and Humor
00:53:22
Speaker
and this In this Earth. It's like saying, like it doesn't matter who you are. You are you. And I love you as who you are. It doesn't matter what you are what ah where you are.
00:53:37
Speaker
makes you you you're my son and you are beautiful part of this world that's how it's like no matter what things may happen no matter what may come no matter what you he may find or realize or you know what franklin may or may not have inherited there is nothing wrong with franklin how even even the great yeah just even it even yeah even the joking part of his like is like is it like I do hope you are some sort of god kid. Oh, you pissed.
00:54:11
Speaker
our danger but like you're You're too busy peeing right now. but no, that was 100% a pooping face. it I know exactly what that face looks like.
00:54:22
Speaker
Because I've seen the kid that I'm working on potty training with. Oh boy. and Again, it's still like... It's him accepting his son, not as like, oh I have a godchild. It's like a massive, like super godchild. like, you're you.
00:54:40
Speaker
You're who you are, and oh, I have to change you. But like, you're you. But also, I just have a lot of feelings about too many people not realizing that, you know, a baby or a kid, like, that's a human person.
00:54:53
Speaker
Just smaller and still growing, but that is a human person. That's a human person. Yes, with all the complexities that entails. It's not a puppy, it's not a fish, it's not a ficus, it's a person.
00:55:07
Speaker
I may have been born from like a celestial or something. Yeah, but then also, speaking of kids, like there's one thing I have to talk about. is just this ending scene that had me dying.
00:55:20
Speaker
like I'm not a parent, nor will I ever be unless something terrible happens, but... There was this moment the end where you're watching them struggle, trying to get, like, the kid's car seat buckled into the car. And honestly, just watching them struggle was so fucking real. Like...
00:55:34
Speaker
full-on PTSD-style flashbacks to doing that with some of the kids that I used to babysit forever ago. Like, you would think a genius like Reed fucking Richards, of all people, would somehow be able to come up with a design for a car seat that's easy to get in and out of the car, or at least one that makes it just a little bit easier to feed the seatbelt through the underside.
00:55:52
Speaker
But nope, it took three guys at least a solid ten minutes to get that thing secured in the back seat. Also, that scene makes me really glad that I'm not legally allowed to touch any part of my kid's car seat at my job, especially none uncles.
00:56:04
Speaker
So figuring that out is not my problem now. Fetci, it took all... It took me, my uncles, my father, and my mother to get Nicole into a car seat.
00:56:18
Speaker
Which was just roughly around, like, roughly, like, eight to ten minutes. Now, I have memories of, like, literally picking a kid that I was babysitting up from daycare... And sitting there in the parking lot. Trying to figure out how to buckle this goddamn car seat into the car.
00:56:34
Speaker
Oh, no. I would say, like, none of it it has anything to do with the kid. It's 90% like... No, it's a fucking car seat. The car seats are fucking... ah finish Yeah, the kid was already in the car seat. I just couldn't get the car seat to buckle into the car.
00:56:49
Speaker
See, ours was ours was easy. It just... it It had a base that stayed in the car. And then there was a carrier that could also click onto the stroller and you just clicked it into the base.
00:57:04
Speaker
Yeah. Nope. This one, the whole carrier was the car seat. It was one of those. have you need You need the did the car seat to have that like strap thing to go beneath it, just like in the movie. It's like you had to click that into it. Yeah, yeah that was that was the base. You only had to do that once because the whole it was a whole thing. It was a whole set. It was a stroller with a carrier and two bases.
00:57:29
Speaker
And there was another one that you had. had one base in each of our cars. And the the carrier itself could also, like if you were for whatever reason in a car that didn't have one of the bases, that's when you had to go through this hassle.
00:57:45
Speaker
But, you know each of our cars had one of the bases. i think we I think we even went and bought an extra one for my mom. Yeah, see, I was trying to put it in my own car, so there was no base to click into.
00:57:58
Speaker
wow Well, that I can't help you with, sorry. Yeah, because, you know, as a teenager, I didn't normally have a child that I had to worry about putting in a car seat. That's important. You shouldn't have one of those.
00:58:09
Speaker
and I mean, I would not have been able to handle that. I can't handle that now. like, you know, in my 30s. So me as a teenager, oh, God, no. ah I'm a poor child. I said like it done it promise to the parents of the kids I work with, you can trust me with your children because I'm not actually raising them.
00:58:27
Speaker
You know, I'm only looking after them for eight to nine hours a day. that's I'm good at my job. ever Thank you for someone assisting, but we can't like that.
00:58:38
Speaker
that But yeah, we have yeah that if we have i like I recognize that pain in like getting that those child care seats in there. like that I recognize that pain.
00:58:51
Speaker
Yeah, honestly, the most real part of the entire movie. Very much. So, I think that it's about time for this episode to go purple mode, y'all, because I've got some things to say myself.
00:59:09
Speaker
And I'm sure that we will probably be chiming in as well. Undoubtedly. I've just realized the way we talk about these things, I bet everyone who listens has figured out what colors we use in the script. Ha ha ha ha. I'm pretty sure I've explicitly noted most of the colors at this point. so Yeah, I think there was an episode of Clone Watch where you where you spelled out who uses what color.
00:59:28
Speaker
But yes, it's me. I'm the purple one. And this script has become blocks of purple. Wait, you're the purple guy? it's not me this time, huh? I'm innocent. You're the purple guy?
00:59:42
Speaker
You're the purple guy from like... like like ah um Wrong gender. internet I was going to say purple girl, so you're close. ah Okay. There we go. So, yes.
00:59:53
Speaker
So, I think that the decision to have this movie take place in its own universe really speaks to the nature of the characters involved.
Technological Contributions and Gender Equality
01:00:02
Speaker
In particular, much of the main MCU has been defined by the existence of Iron Man, Tony Stark.
01:00:08
Speaker
As much as he's a scientific genius in his own right, he's also very much a businessman. If his inventions are provided to the rest of the world, then they're provided with the understanding that he will be making a profit off of them, and that's if he provides them at all.
01:00:23
Speaker
Reed is similarly a genius, but he is much more of a scientist than a businessman. Within most Marvel properties, this can result in the classic Reed Richards is useless problem, where despite his scientific advancements, Reed's inventions never actually changed the world.
01:00:39
Speaker
Putting this version of the four in their own world allows them to effectively bring about world peace through the group's inventions and discoveries, something Tony Stark never would or could in the main Marvel Universe, which has overall stayed similar to our own universe for the average person.
01:00:58
Speaker
This overall helps establish a different tone for their world and a different tone for their team in a way that ah no other marvel properly no other Marvel property has previously established.
01:01:11
Speaker
um point Point of order, according to Tony Stark himself in Iron Man 2, he successfully privatized world peace. Yeah, that's not good thing. Kind of the problem. I know, i we we We are riffing here. Yes.
01:01:27
Speaker
I know, I just added a note that says it helps that Reed didn't make things that created war crimes either. Yes, definitely. But yeah, I think that one of the best things done in this movie comes from the characterizations of ah the four.
01:01:41
Speaker
I've already talked about Reed and his effects on the world, I think that the other three are done excellently as well. In particular, the Storm siblings. This is easily done. the best adaptations of both Susan and Johnny yet.
01:01:54
Speaker
While previous adaptations of Sue have mainly just had her as girl character, this version feels like a real part of the team. The sections ah where the movie focuses on her being the diplomat of the group, of dealing with governments and the media, ah help establish a downtime function for herself, and a social skill set that the others don't really possess.
01:02:15
Speaker
The section near the end... Hell yeah, show power. Mm-hmm. The section near the end with her talking to the Mole Man in particular was a great scene to show off these skills and a great way to keep the lighthearted tone of the movie by justifying how the populace of New York was evacuated to keep the people safe as the four dealt with Galactus on the ground.
01:02:35
Speaker
Sue's experience with motherhood is also a core element of the movie, giving her some of the greatest stakes in the film, and thoroughly justifying her incredible display of power at the end, using her force fields to push the cosmic space god Galactus forcibly through a portal.
01:02:52
Speaker
Yep, I literally wrote here and I don't have anything else besides, oh no, I have sudden thoughts about Sue and her speech. And then I just added in her going to space and I'm going to do the latter part first. Because, you know, it would have been so easy to be like, oh, she's pregnant. She can't go up in the spaceship with everyone else and just kind of sideline her.
01:03:09
Speaker
But no, they went out of their way. Reed made all these accommodations so that she could, in fact, go to space despite being however many months she was pregnant at that point. Oh, yeah.
01:03:20
Speaker
And I just thought that was a really nice touch that, you know, instead of sidelining the girl for what would honestly be practical reasons, it's showing that, you know, in this retrofuturistic world where there is so much technology that's been used for the betterment of everything, Reed has used those skills to make it possible for Sue to go up into space and continue to contribute as a member of the Fantastic Four with the rest of them.
01:03:45
Speaker
And it was never a question of whether or not she would go It was a question of, but okay, so how am I going to alter her space suit to make it fit? And they didn't have to have to ah address that because they had address it with only one character.
01:03:59
Speaker
They addressed Johnny. So it's like, okay, you have this much oxygen in there and that's going to burn out if you use your, use your flame on.
01:04:11
Speaker
But it's basically implied that he already built that and they made a funny joke about it. It's like, well, it's a little bit bigger. It's like, I mean, bluer. Yeah, like they didn't even do anything to like lampshade it. It was just a given and there was no question about whether or not they would make those changes to her spacesuit so that, you know, she would be able to wear it and go into space. Because and because he he's Reed Richards, he's a genius. Like even Ben Grim was like, yeah, I'm going to wear it. like He didn't say like, is that made for me? He's like, no, no. He's like, yeah, I mean i made it
01:04:47
Speaker
Yeah, but I think this like compares really to, you know if you look at the rest of the MCU, where that would have been you know a point to make a whole bunch of jokes, or possibly even a point of contention. And it's nice to see you just you know a departure from that standard.
01:05:05
Speaker
Definitely. Some of the points that you were making, Lauren, kind of reflect the comics throughout their history. In the first 20-ish years of years of fantastic four sue was ah the girl character yes that was pretty much all she she had to contribute in fact not only was early fan mail so ah so chauvinistic and you know granted you know the the target audience at the time is like eight-year-old boys yeah if that's an excuse but they're like you why is the girl doing this and that
01:05:46
Speaker
not only was that the fan mail but they included that in an issue in a story yeah hey they're reading their fan mail and sue is crying over the comments that like that that came in but as the years went on and And I want to say And that actually reminds me, that was there was a My Little Pony comic about the same thing about a character that was really disliked and it had a whole similar...
01:06:19
Speaker
similar arc i think i have that and i'm sure you as the years went on though it became you know she became more prominent as a character and i want to say it was really john burns run in the 80s where yeah he was like no she's the most powerful member of the team yeah that's when i was introduced to like the fantastic four it's a it's like
01:06:49
Speaker
And that's why I was like, oh yeah, she can totally one of his e beat up Galactus, but she can actually like hit um One of Byrne's earliest issues was Sue spotlight issue where it opens up with her on an interview show.
01:07:12
Speaker
And it's a very thinly disguised pastiche of Barbara Walters that's interviewing her. And, but it's a really nasty Barbara Walters.
01:07:22
Speaker
So Barbara Walters. Oh no. you know She's making all of these snide comments about her. Because at the time, she was still going by the Invisible Girl as well.
01:07:33
Speaker
And she's like, oh, you're your code name, the Invisible Girl, and this and that. And on live TV, Sue shows her up by like you know creating a force field that lifts her chair up unexpectedly. and and scaring you know scaring her and all of this. And then she ends up, she goes to the Baxter building. The rest of the team have been taken out by this mysterious stranger who turns out to be Franklin, who has gotten frustrated at a Rubik's cube.
01:08:06
Speaker
And his power, and you know Franklin's four and a half, five years old at the time. He's gotten frustrated at Rubik's Cube and broken through some psychic circuit breakers in his mind and aged himself to adulthood, but he still has the mentality of a five-year-old and all of his powers.
01:08:26
Speaker
o Oh, God, no. and And Sue has to be the one to talk him down. You can reach the things on the shelves now. yes My worst nightmare. Oh no.
01:08:38
Speaker
There's a reason the hand sanitizer lives up on the tall shelf. I didn't want to say like I was so happy seeing Sue Storm so powerful in this movie.
01:08:50
Speaker
It was so refreshing. After corny and fun is what I'd say like for some of the previous Fantastic Four.
01:09:02
Speaker
But none of them did Sue. any justice. What? Sue wasn't done any justice as Jessica Alba by them.
01:09:14
Speaker
it Granted, she was invisible, but making her get undressed and you know out in the middle of the bridge. And then suddenly, oops, I'm visible again. Yep.
01:09:28
Speaker
this They're not doing that shit in this movie. Thanks fucking God. There are... they they're they're breaking breaking the amount of curse words we have. i mean, I mean, it warrants it in this case.
01:09:44
Speaker
but Whenever Betsy's on, I, you know, explicit. Yes. Yes.
01:09:50
Speaker
Thank you i cannot be controlled. Hey, I have to do it all day at work. So, I am actually very good at filtering myself just, you know, when I choose to, and I choose not to when I'm not around small children.
01:10:04
Speaker
Yes. It's funny when, when I'm on with the movie defenders, every episode of theirs, they mark as explicit because of Scott.
01:10:14
Speaker
but but i am but i always say i always accidentally yeah without intending to for like the first half of an episode that i'm on i'm on auto filter and then i'm then i'm like oh wait fuck it yeah you're not you don't have to use the customer service voice but ah you you also had some thoughts about sue's speech and Yes. i So, you know, the part where everyone's freaking out outside the Baxter building and protesting and waving picket signs of one dot.
01:10:45
Speaker
And, you know, her her method of dealing with that is just to walk out in front of everybody with Franklin in her arms and just introduce everybody to her infant child.
01:10:58
Speaker
And I think that says a lot about who she is as a character. Just... her way of defusing the situation of de-escalating everything was by trying just to reach people where they were at with something that was directly on their level.
01:11:15
Speaker
Like, they're dealing with this threat that is honestly just completely incomprehensible to everybody. I mean, how do you conceive of ah guy that will literally eat your entire fucking planet?
01:11:26
Speaker
How do you conceptualize that? So, when you're dealing with something that's that just far-fetched and outside of the realm of possibility... You know, even with the whole, like, finally being faced with fear, I think that makes it a lot easier to reckon with the idea of sacrificing an infant, especially when you've never even seen that infant, where if you have, you've seen them in, like, you know, a couple new spots for, like, five seconds and that's it.
01:11:52
Speaker
I think just the way that Sue was able to reach people by just treating them as humans and reaching their humanity by, you know, bringing out her human child and finally putting a face on what it is that everyone's thinking of.
01:12:07
Speaker
Or like what everyone's thinking of. It really help. Oh, yes. It really conveyed the message that the Fantastic Four, again, like, this is Marvel's first family.
01:12:18
Speaker
But they conveyed in a unique way. it's like, it's it's not just like, oh, the Fantastic Four is Marvel's first family. it's like, no. The world is their family.
01:12:31
Speaker
They are willing. they They recontextualize what would sound like so, so like selfish. It's like we will not sacrifice our child. We will not sacrifice anyone.
01:12:44
Speaker
And like reframing it as, you know, it's not us valuing his life above everyone else's. It's because no one should have to be sacrificed because that shouldn't even be an option on the table in the first place.
01:12:56
Speaker
And yeah another thing I like about her speech is that as much as it was like her coming at this as a mother. ah sorry. What were you saying? They are saying that like, they are the defenders. and then They did come out and like, like Sue did say like, are you when, when, when the silver server came up and said, are you this world defender? She did say that it's like, we are.
01:13:21
Speaker
your defenders, and we are going to fight for, not just for our child, but because because it's our family, because you're all our family. The Earth is our family, and we will fight to the end for that.
01:13:39
Speaker
And that is through heroism. At no point did they feel like, at no point did they say, like, we need to, like, acquiesce or change.
01:13:53
Speaker
Every single plan or plot they thought is like, how do we save the earth? ah And not for nothing too, while it was incredibly brave and smart for Sue to go out there and do that, none of those people could have touched her if she didn't want them to.
01:14:12
Speaker
Oh, well, yeah. I mean, wouldn't have brought a Raphon son out there if they could, but that's not the point. yeah If any of if any anyone tried to raise their hand against us, he could smash them into pancakes.
01:14:25
Speaker
Effortlessly. But I think it also shows an incredible level of trust, too, that she was like, okay, I know these people are riled up and the prevailing mood is let's give the baby to the planet-eating dude, but I'm gonna give you, you know, a little bit of trust and And assume that you're not going to instantly rush me and try to, you know, throw my baby to, not quite the wolves, but, you know, something similar, and that you'll hear me out.
01:14:50
Speaker
It's also the fact that, like, well, the baby needs to be alive so we can give it to the space god. Yeah. But, like, that also touches on kind of something else that I really liked, where Sue is very much coming at this from, like, the point of view of a mother as she's holding a baby, but at the same time, it's very clear that, like,
01:15:10
Speaker
being a mother and motherhood is not her entire identity because it's so often that as soon as, you know, the female character has a child with them that like, you know, subsumes everything that they are. Their entire character goes from whatever they were previously to the mom.
01:15:27
Speaker
And it was really nice to see that she can have that part of her without that being the entirety of who she is. And that it's still very clear that she has a complex, rich inner life as a character.
01:15:38
Speaker
Especially when, you know, just in the short runtime of that movie where they're also showing, you know, a four piece ensemble cast, they were still able to like very readily and easily establish that.
01:15:50
Speaker
There was at no point where I felt like, you know, her being a mom was all she had going for and the most important thing about her. It was just one of the many things that made her who she was as a character. yeah i The thing that made her like one of the main characters and sort of the heart of the heroism is the fact that she stood at that statue of the Fantastic Four with her child.
01:16:15
Speaker
She's basically saying that a it she's proclaiming that she's not just a hero and her child is not just a child it's humanity it's the future it is we are not going to sacrifice against a literal walking apocalypse and basically saying that we're going to stand together and we're going try and fight against this together but also recognizing that in a pseudo of sacrifice like if it has to be
01:16:49
Speaker
We'll be the ones that will sacrifice. But we're not going to stop. We're not going to let everyone else suffer. Yes. And it really really was like, it really was like, they are, it it really is what what ah the Silver Surfer said. Like, are you they you this world's guardians? And they are. Mm-hmm.
01:17:14
Speaker
But yeah, so similar. So previously mentioned that it wasn't just Sue Storm who was characterized well in this movie, but Johnny Storm as
Character Highlights: Johnny Storm
01:17:22
Speaker
well. He had an excellent display in this movie.
01:17:25
Speaker
Like, we got a strong focus on his love of space and space exploration. The scene the beginning... And women... Mm-hmm. the the scene where he talks to read about the scrap space suitit gives the character a sense of direction that i don't think any previous version of the character has displayed i got a real sense of drive from him that he wanted something but when galactus his herald showed up and he focuses on translating or language it displays not only his own smarts but also his dedication to the team ah He has always had some of the most obvious offensive presence in combat scenarios with his mobility and fire blasts, but this movie shows how he's part of the team beyond just his powers, definitely culminating in the scene where he tries to sacrifice himself by being the final one to push Galactus into the portal when he starts coming back out of it.
01:18:18
Speaker
but also the fact that the person who does push him through the portal is the silver surfer who he got onto the team effectively. Like that, that ending scene, that was all him functionally.
01:18:31
Speaker
Yep. And I, I mentioned Mark Wade's take on the characters being a fairly heavy influence on this movie. If you're familiar with it.
01:18:42
Speaker
And Wade also did that with Johnny. He's like, Johnny was good with numbers. And so. ah yeah. We were talking about this yesterday.
01:18:55
Speaker
yeah Sue as the head of the, as the head of fantastic four incorporated said, okay. um I'm done with you just screwing around.
01:19:08
Speaker
um And you'll being, you know, the, the celebrity guy and all of this. you have to pull your weight on the business side of the Fantastic Four too.
01:19:20
Speaker
You are now the the chief financial officer of Fantastic Four Incorporated. And he was good at it. Yeah. He was good at it!
01:19:31
Speaker
So like it's a very rare, but very refreshing when there's a take on Johnny that isn't just, you know, the smart-mouthed... Yeah.
01:19:47
Speaker
ah yeah like That is part of it, but also... even even when I was, like, first introduced to it, was like, yeah, he's the hothead, he's he's he's flirting with all the girls and the space babes, it's like, but also, like, he's a NASA scientist?
01:20:06
Speaker
Like, that that's not, like, something that is, he's not dumb, but compared to, like, Reed Ben and Sue, yeah, he's silly, but, like, he's also, like,
01:20:20
Speaker
He wouldn't be in the same rocket with them. He is, for want of a better term, the most ordinary of them. Yeah, relatively speaking.
01:20:31
Speaker
Yeah. But he's, in terms of knowledge, he's like, yeah, he he's a rocket scientist. And go, Betsy. Yeah, Betsy, go.
01:20:41
Speaker
Okay, sorry, I want to interrupt anyone. Go, Betsy, go. But no, I just, I suddenly had all these thoughts about Johnny and like his humanity and specifically like the emotional intelligence of his character.
01:20:52
Speaker
Like Lauren, you were talking about how he was focused on translating Shalabal's language yeah and that being his contribution to the team. But beyond that, it was also like, he went out of his way to learn that to also find a way to connect with her, to understand her, like, you know, from one person to another.
01:21:09
Speaker
It wasn't just about like trying to figure out a solution. It was about trying to figure out who this person is and how to reach her so that maybe they can figure something out. And, you know, that was just one example of many, like a huge part of how he gets her over onto their side is once he figures out that language and plays the recording, he figures out her backstory and how, you know, she saved her planet by sacrificing herself to be Galactus's herald.
01:21:34
Speaker
But then he also has recordings of all the planets that she scouted for him and that she let die. And, you know, more or less makes her reckon with the impact of her actions. And if she, you know, didn't have that level of, you know, for lack of a better word, humanity that he could reach, that he made an attempt to reach, like, it would not have had the same impact.
01:21:56
Speaker
He knew that she was just more than, you know, someone who was being sent out perfunctorally to help Galactus like you know this wasn't her be-all end-all it wasn't like she was super into this job she was doing it because she had no other choice and when he figured that out he knew how to like appeal to that and I feel like this is one of the first times that especially on the screen but you know one of the few times where we've seen Johnny having this level of emotional intelligence as well where you know he actually is
01:22:29
Speaker
in tune with what other people are feeling and how to reach them where they are at. And it was really cool to see that have such a huge impact on the plot. Like literally that was what saved the day in the end that he made that effort to reach out to someone and understand them. And you could argue that he didn't know what his response was going to do.
01:22:49
Speaker
He, he, he tried to like appeal to her man, her, as you said, humanity. personally didn't ah ah Yeah, that's a good one. personhood and her guilt over like but he didn't know how that worked and honestly I liked how the film portrayed like he did return it's like well she left but it's like he didn't know of that worked in what way it would work but it's like he tried he he did something that is unique to him
01:23:25
Speaker
And not only did he try, he put a lot of effort into planning it. Yeah. Like, there was whole lot of thought behind this. He had a whole lot of monitors out there ready for this scenario. And not only that, but, like, in their first, like, face-to-face encounter with Galactus when, you know, they're on their way, he goes out of his way to follow her and ask her, hey, that thing you said, what does it mean? i want to know. Mm-hmm.
01:23:47
Speaker
He didn't have to ask that. He didn't even have to care. But he did. It helped crack the translation. Him cracking the translation and also then hitting her with the the guilt. like he He didn't know what the result was. He he may have just been using that to like get her off the board or try to get her on board.
01:24:09
Speaker
Regardless, he acted in a way to put her off the board and eventually made her like the mates so major piece. But he didn't know that. But he died. He died.
01:24:20
Speaker
he and When everyone else was saying like, Johnny, you're just... Again, I do love that line. It's like, oh, I'm Johnny. I love space and women.
01:24:32
Speaker
And there's a naked space woman. So I think there's a ah thing. that And he he turned that into a major plot point.
01:24:43
Speaker
Yeah, what what I really liked about that, that kind of teased me up perfectly. Thank you, Nick. In that ah there's that bit and there's him when they get to Galactus's ship and he does fly up and say, Hey, what did that mean?
01:25:00
Speaker
That until the, that final penny drops, when he starts, when the surfer shows back up and he starts playing those messages, um even as we see him working on the translation and everything throughout it, it's not like that came out of nowhere.
01:25:20
Speaker
that he had made the translation, but the rest of them kind of play off his interest in her. They, they underestimate him a little bit.
01:25:31
Speaker
Oh yeah. Definitely. They underestimate him because like he said, in that scene that you just mentioned, Oh, Johnny likes space. Johnny likes girls. Here's a girl, naked girl from space.
01:25:44
Speaker
But I also think it's interesting that he's the only one that even spent the time trying to reach the silver surfer and, you know figure out who Shalabal was and what our whole deal was. It's an alternative plan. because and there wasn't a really plan it was the Everyone else already had something to focus on for the end gameme of everything yeah you know And they were all everything that they everything that they were focusing on was out of Johnny's depth.
01:26:18
Speaker
So Johnny took what he was good at and focused on another possibility. Something I was going to add in. it's like They couldn't have defeated the Galactus without all four and the Surfer.
01:26:34
Speaker
Mm-hmm. you know, now think about it, that puts his whole like being, you know, a ladies man and whatnot in a new light to where he is the one that is actually interested in, you know, what's going on with people and like actually interacting with them and meeting with them.
01:26:50
Speaker
As much as Sue's like a diplomat and we saw, you know, her speech and reaching out to people. It was very much like in a professional sense where this was just Johnny wanting to understand another person.
01:27:01
Speaker
Yes. Johnny's the most regular of them. Johnny's ladies band is more him. He's open extraterrestrial people. he's open to extraterrestrial Oh, interesting.
01:27:17
Speaker
But it wasn't just him, like, you know, hitting on her. It was him genuinely trying to understand her as another person. really Which I think was a really cool way to, like, recontextualize, you know, him being the ladies' man, him being more or less, like, the face that appeals to the general public.
01:27:32
Speaker
And how that's more than just him wanting to get with people. It's a place where he can build connections that the others can't. He translated alien language.
01:27:43
Speaker
Yeah, it's a place where he's willing and wants to take the time and put in the energy to make connections where the others don't necessarily have the time or energy or ability. And figured out that the surfboard is not part of her.
01:27:57
Speaker
Yes. He did figure that much out. I do think that was a really fun joke. So previously, feel like I got like a fun joke of him being like, i didn't want to touch so her inappropriately.
01:28:11
Speaker
So it's it's the the the board is not part of her.
Character Highlights: The Thing
01:28:15
Speaker
Yeah. But Lauren, you had more to say about ah the remaining character. Yeah, so previously we've talked a little bit about the thing, and y'all have made your opinions on him rather clear, but this is gonna be a little bit controversial because I agree with both of y'all with some things, but I also disagree with both of y'all about some things. It's gonna be a little bit nuanced here, so... Not nuanced! Oh no, it's it's nuance time, y'all!
01:28:43
Speaker
Oh man, ah we we can't have nuance. No, now we need to develop literacy too! Oh no. Too late, I already pissed on the four.
01:28:53
Speaker
Oh no. That's Tumblr again. The only member of the four that I feel a little bit led down by is The Thing, who doesn't generally get a lot to do in the movie.
01:29:06
Speaker
The scenes of him piloting the spaceship are lovely, getting to use the skills that he was brought on for back with the group's original space voyage. The scene of the four trying to escape the Herald through faster than light travel is a great moment for everyone, but is probably the best moment the thing gets overall.
01:29:26
Speaker
However, outside of this, there isn't much in regards to personal stakes or involvement for him specifically. There are brief scenes that involve kids on the streets and that touch on his upbringing, but these don't really culminate in an arc or reach any particular conclusion.
01:29:43
Speaker
Put a pin in that for a couple of minutes. yeah Comparing yeah this version of the thing to the version from the 2000s movies, I think part of the difference is the timing.
01:29:54
Speaker
The previous thing was newly transformed, dealing with the angst of the change. and in turn being one of the driving forces of the original movie in particular. This version of the thing has been transformed for four years already and is widely beloved by the public, so this often core factor of his character isn't present and not much is implemented to replace it.
01:30:18
Speaker
This thing is still good. He still has fun moments and his interactions with the rest of the cast still have solid dynamics. But I am hoping that in the future we will get to explore this version of the character more deeply as I think there's still a great deal of untapped potential here. And and in particular, from a mechanical sense. We've talked about Reed and his function in the story. We've talked about Sue and her figuring out how to deal with the public.
01:30:45
Speaker
We've talked about Johnny and him translating the language that makes the surfer end up joining them at the end. But the thing doesn't really have an equivalent function in solving the overall Galactus problem. He doesn't he doesn't have that moment for him where all the other characters do. and There's a fun action sequence, but you're right. It's not enough, but I will say like,
01:31:08
Speaker
What do you feel about the... least In terms like ah of his prince presentation as through as a character? like How do you feel? it I feel that this is probably the best looking yeah thing you've had. Visually, this is a very solid thing. that That's for sure.
01:31:28
Speaker
it's just and he doesn't have as much to do as the other characters. I think a i think a lot of the character that you what that you were missing ended up on the cutting room floor.
01:31:40
Speaker
Probably. yeah Because, ah especially once you see the closing credits, and it has the quote from Jack Kirby about there's always a a bit of me in my creations, and how they chose the Earth designation 828 from Kirby's birthday, eight let twenty August 28th.
01:32:01
Speaker
Even the way that Ben was originally drawn, he resembled Kirby. so oh like Kirby was Ben was kind of the movie's Jack Kirby proxy yeah yeah and they did away with using Ben's traditional love interest of Alicia Masters and introduced Natasha Lyonne's character who is a stand-in for Kirby's wife Roz and also Natasha Lyonne
01:32:36
Speaker
Yeah. I have feelings about that. but My understanding is that there was a lot more Natasha Lyonne footage that ended up cut out just because it wasn't germane.
01:32:50
Speaker
We talked about this earlier for this movie and last episode for Superman. It wasn't germane to ah the story. hmm.
01:33:01
Speaker
um it didn't move It didn't move the main story forward, even though it was wonderful character stuff. So have a feeling lot of what you feel was missing from Ben is laying on the cutting room floor somewhere.
01:33:19
Speaker
Probably, yeah. So we were robbed.
Doctor Doom's Future in the MCU
01:33:22
Speaker
But want to say, they at least did give a great moment with Donnie Droffett.
01:33:30
Speaker
dropping Ben in for like the, the clobbering time. That was good. This is true. the The clobbering time moment was very good, but I won't be like, if I had to pick like on force, like as much as I love how they depicted Ben, he had the weakest arc of storyline.
01:33:52
Speaker
Definitely. That, But of them, like I would say like all of them had at least strong like characters, strong moments that I watched. Yeah, like he he's got good characterization. He just doesn't have enough to do in the movie.
01:34:07
Speaker
By comparison, especially considering how much there is. but But then again, that's also saying there's so much characters given to everyone in the movie. Yes. Now, Lauren... That's not a bad thing.
01:34:21
Speaker
Lauren, there's there's one more character who, despite not being in the movie, kind of loomed large. And we both have some notes about this character. And um'm i'm honestly torn about which goes better first.
01:34:40
Speaker
So I will let you pick um whether you think yours or mine should go first. You know, i think I think that mine can lead into yours pretty decently. Okay, go for it. Yeah.
01:34:52
Speaker
So I would also like to bring up the usage of Doom in this movie, particularly how he isn't substantially used throughout most of the film. I've always been of the opinion that Doom is not a first movie villain.
01:35:06
Speaker
A first movie already needs to introduce and explore four different characters with the core teams. which doesn't leave much room for exploring an antagonist character as well.
01:35:17
Speaker
As such, having their first villain as Galactus is an excellent choice, as he acts more as a force of nature than as a character for the most part. Doom, meanwhile, is a very complex character in his own right, both from the point of characterization and from a functional standpoint with his plethora of abilities and resources.
01:35:38
Speaker
Spending a movie just to get to know the Fantastic Four on their own is a critical step to providing a satisfying Doctor Doom experience on the big screen. The small teaser provided at the end of the movie was, in my opinion, the perfect amount of doom that a first Fantastic Four movie should have.
01:35:58
Speaker
And I'm very much looking forward to what comes next. Given that this world is already familiar with alternate realities on at least a conceptual level, gives me high hopes for how the group of characters will be interacting with the core Marvel Universe in the future.
01:36:13
Speaker
May interrupt for one moment? Mm-hmm. Go ahead. I will say, i do think that you are very correct. And my only problem with your... ah so your and I love what you just said.
01:36:29
Speaker
My only problem with that is the fact that the next and ah probably with and the which will be the full display of Doom is going to be Avengers Doomsday. And I would like to have seen doom and the read interaction is going to be a major that's a major factor of their character that acts but that is but we do not live in that world and
01:37:01
Speaker
I do agree with what you said. like if If there was a build-up to Doom that was it not in this movie, I'd be very happy of that. i but yeah I still liked the the do the Doom inclusion in the end credit scene, but I really feel that they they really have to had to work extra hard into displaying Doom in Avengers Doomsday.
01:37:30
Speaker
fire for me to make it feel it works. and From a practical standpoint too, given that a year ago now, they announced that Robert Downey Jr. is going to be Doom, having Doom in this movie would have overshadowed the Fantastic Four.
01:37:49
Speaker
it's It's not even a matter of that's another complex character that you have to introduce. that would overshadow them. yeah Yeah. Like my, my thought about him being a complex character that was years ago. That was yeah reacting to the two thousands fantastic four movies. That's completely independent of any casting decisions. Yeah. i and what take your b I just say that it's going to make it very hard.
01:38:18
Speaker
Like even with this is as much as I am excited for, Doom being by ah that the RGJ Doom, it's going to really need to work hard to get me to be on board with it without seeing him against Richards. Because it I always associate Reed Richards and Dr. Doom. They are they have they have to be opposed to each other.
01:38:50
Speaker
They do. but they're They're directly connected. there could i here this lauren let Let's do talk that mid-credits scene though. men whom Yes. yes According to Vanessa Kirby, despite only being on screen, seen from behind for like two seconds, that was Downey in the cloak on the set.
01:39:16
Speaker
I mean, it looks the same for from the from the reveal. Now, one thing that is occurring to me And you here's here's where we, at least I, you know step away from what we hope is at least some for to sort of insightful analysis of everything that we've been doing to full-on fanboy speculation kind of thing.
01:39:44
Speaker
is Is that, I mean, we we all walked into Fantastic Four kind of expecting, okay, we know they're fighting Galactus and we saw that post-credits scene in Thunderbolts. So they're going to lose.
01:39:57
Speaker
And Galactus is going to eat the planet. And that didn't happen. Galactus is in the MCU. And the Russos directed post-credits scene.
01:40:13
Speaker
Yes. I've heard that the Russos also directed the Thunderbolts post-credits scene. Interesting. So we may be seeing both of these scenes again, not necessarily played out exactly the same way, from a slightly different perspective div in Doomsday.
01:40:38
Speaker
So a different certain point of view, you might say? Right. I mean, there it's not going to be like when the scene from Falcon and the Winter Soldier was at the end of Ant-Man and the Wasp.
01:40:49
Speaker
But would be, or what whatever movie it was at the end of. or you You know what I mean, the Civil War scene. Yeah. ah The Civil War scene at the end of whatever movie, Ant-Man or whatever.
01:41:04
Speaker
I'm thinking this is definitely Doom. But we will be seeing kind of these same scenes com composed slightly differently. like We might see the FF ending scene from Doom's perspective. right Right. Rather than picking up with you know Sue reading The Very Hungry Caterpillar to Franklin...
01:41:31
Speaker
that scene will pick up with doom teleporting into the Baxter building and but again going to Franklin. ah I feel and if they're going to do that, that's, that's when they're going to show.
01:41:46
Speaker
So again, I feel that they're definitely going to have, because of how much money they're spending, there has to be a scene of our DJ regular. It that's, that's the scene.
01:41:59
Speaker
But, and you we live' live with with with with the rankperlin we'll see the Thunderbolts end scene from the perspective of the Excelsior coming into the MCU, into 616. But I feel that that's the scene that they're going to have RDJ regular with Franklin, like, touching his face.
01:42:27
Speaker
And then we will never see that again. Well, this goes into part of what I have here too, in that I think Franklin might be the key to how the MCU is going to pull off their adaptation of Kirkman's Secret Wars in Doomsday and Secret Wars, and that right we've Franklin having cosmic,
01:42:52
Speaker
we've got franklin having power cosmic And so he's whose power Doom is going to take. and He's the molecule name mar man that's Maybe that's the scene that we're looking at in the post-credits scene of Fantastic Four.
01:43:11
Speaker
Franklin reaches up and heals Doom's face, which then becomes RDJ as RDJ takes the powers.
Future MCU Speculations
01:43:22
Speaker
Interesting. It becomes God and Emperor's here. r Have you considered that maybe he's just dropping off a really belated baby gift? I mean, who knows?
01:43:32
Speaker
You know, forty years late, five years late. If it were Valeria, I would go for it. It like it was Valeria. he It was Valeria.
01:43:43
Speaker
um Part of his agreement to help Reed deliver Valeria and Sue not die was that he be Valeria's godfather. So maybe just wanted to drop off Brown Bear, Brown Bear, since, you know, Franklin already had The Very Hungry Caterpillar.
01:43:59
Speaker
The Very Hungry Caterpillar and ah ah that Origin of the Species and a fictional book that doesn't exist, but is apparently a nonfiction book in this universe about space-time and Schrodinger's cat.
01:44:16
Speaker
Yes. Or Fly Went By. That one was in there, too. You know, now now that we have four-year-old Franklin, more than ever, i want Power Pack in the MCU. u I have been wanting that for so long.
01:44:29
Speaker
No, we've all talked about this. Yes, please. Please. It's time for Speed Yuri. Do you remember a Dark Reign? Shut shut up. i want I want the nice, pure Power Pack.
01:44:45
Speaker
That's what I was hoping for, too. or yeah i but i don have like I don't want teen angst Julie power. no i i would but I would accept Alex power in the new warriors and the rest of the power pack hating him for stealing their powers.
01:45:11
Speaker
but yeah i I was, I was talking about my favorite, like Franklin Richards moment. Nothing good came from Dark Reign, Nick. So no i don't know what your favorite Franklin Richards moment is. I'm going to say it right now.
01:45:25
Speaker
Oh boy. He's going to say it. Norman Osborn and Matt Gargan, Venom, entered into the Baxter building. The Fantastic Four were off world.
01:45:37
Speaker
Valeria was there, said they're not there. And they're confronted by Franklin Richards with pop guns that actually fired actual bullets.
01:45:49
Speaker
And he's wearing a Spider-Man mask. Nice. he If he wasn't wearing the Tattletail costume, I'm not interested. yeah So, you know, I want Power Pack.
01:46:04
Speaker
I also want Power Pack. I, too, want Power Pack. Marvel, give us a Power Pack.
Fantastic Four's Essence and Comic Roots
01:46:10
Speaker
But, you know, let's be real. Power Pack would have to be a TV series.
01:46:15
Speaker
i meanly And if it's multiple series seasons, they would have to film them all back to back. Because the kids are going to grow up too fast. yes or Or Katie, who starts off at five years old, would be graduating high school in season two.
01:46:31
Speaker
Alex would be an accountant somewhere. and Like, Hilaria's there, and she's just like, like, for example, I... Are you actually firing bullets? that They weren't actually bullets.
01:46:43
Speaker
like They weren't actually bullets. I'm so... It's one of my favorite moments in comics. Yeah, nothing good came out of Dark Crane.
01:46:55
Speaker
Nothing good came out of Dark Crane. But yeah, thinking... hate all of you. I hate all of you all. We love you, Nick. We do.
01:47:06
Speaker
Yeah. Thinking about the movie in a general sense, ah one of the common themes of this movie is about going levers and how they need, if they could find one point of leverage, they would be able to solve the entire problem.
01:47:20
Speaker
And I feel like yeah like received lever feel like Pulling is a metaphor for problem solving is a perfect symbol for this movie and for the Fantastic Four as scientist heroes rather than as conventional superheroes. These characters are problem solvers. Oh yeah, This it.
01:47:42
Speaker
every and We mentioned basically every character, other than the thing, unfortunately, gets a moment where they are solving problems. They each work together, they each solve part of the problem, each solve part of the Galactus problem, each solve a world-ending problem. And I feel like that is the spirit of the Fantastic Four. That is the essence of these characters. That is the essence of their stories.
01:48:08
Speaker
And this movie, they got it. or They did it. They made an actual Fantastic Four movie. And it is beautiful. A lot of people talk about how The Incredibles is the best Fantastic Four movie. But honestly, while they get the fan scenario well they get the family scenario right, this, this factor, the science heroes, the problem-solving heroes, this is and one this is the one element of The Fantastic Four that not even The Incredibles got.
01:48:36
Speaker
and this that he finally made it happen And that's going back to the the same Wade and Waringo vibe in that for years prior to that, after Burns' run, after Simonson's run, and a couple of other you pretty decent runs, the book was floundering. There wasn't really a direction.
01:49:01
Speaker
for the book because no one got a good grasp on who the fantastic four are because they're not real there. Yeah. They're superheroes, but they're not traditional superheroes.
01:49:13
Speaker
They're not crime fighters the same way that, you know the Avengers are Spider-Man or. spider man or lawyer yeah Wade's hook was they're explorers and you know they're explorers and researchers they fight against crime or they fight against those that are interesting or need their results or they have to go into the out of the space or like other dimensions and stuff like that exploration as a concept is a pretty broad term so you can take that a lot of different directions yeah
01:49:52
Speaker
Which they do. Oh, yeah. There's an advantage. There's a universe everywhere. As I recall, the term that Wade coined for them is you know, the the way that, you know, we we have the term astronauts and so forth.
01:50:11
Speaker
the Fantastic Four were imaginots. Yes. Oh, that's a good one, yeah. That they they explore the the limits of imagination and the unknown. be Beyond everything.
01:50:28
Speaker
So, yeah, the this movie owes a it owes a huge debt, of course, to Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. Yes, no doubt. ah it It owes a pretty decent debt two to John Byrne's run because he...
01:50:45
Speaker
took those archetypes that Stan and Jack created that, frankly, by the 80s, some of those archetypes had become kind of outdated Invisible Girl.
01:50:58
Speaker
Yeah, Little Stale. And dragged them kicking and screaming. Yeah. dragged them kicking and screaming into the latter half of the 20th century and then wade catapulted them into the 21st century and this movie just punts it into the current century that would be the 21st nick
01:51:26
Speaker
Screw you. but I know. It was numbers. hu it was It was numbers. here we It was in fact numbers. Numbers are indeed hard.
01:51:37
Speaker
I'm not denying that by any means. If Nick were we're trapped in Lex Luthor's prison from the the new Superman movie, he wouldn't need Metamorpho to create kryptonite to keep Nick weak.
01:51:52
Speaker
He would just need the DC supervillain, the calculator. a a Numbers. Oh, no. Honestly, that would work on me, too. I'm not even going to lie.
01:52:05
Speaker
I can handle it. Yeah, that's because you're one of the math gays. You've got the math gene. You're hoarding it because the rest of us
Conclusion and Teaser
01:52:13
Speaker
can't. yeah i could There's only a couple of us out there that actually have the math gene. I'm not one of them.
01:52:19
Speaker
I have the power of math on my side. you I could make do because thanks to work I have like 40 calculators sitting in drawers right next to me that all do different kinds of things.
01:52:32
Speaker
Oh yeah, if you give me a calculator to like, you know, solve the math problems, I'll be fine. Maybe. the Possibly, if I know how to actually plug them in. Potentially. Yeah, see, there's there's there's where your weakness is still there.
01:52:44
Speaker
I know how to use all of these 4D calculators. Oh yeah. Calculator power. Dun dun dun. I just did a rock.
01:52:55
Speaker
Ha ha. ah so As everyone listening may have guessed, we kind of liked this movie. ah hu Yeah, quite a bit. maybe we We are eating well this summer with superhero movies.
01:53:09
Speaker
um I'm honestly thinking that I might try to go see Superman again tomorrow night when tickets are cheap. exciting but the coast i was looking at the I was looking at available seats at showings that I can get to, and the available seats all suck.
01:53:25
Speaker
oh I mean, there's some that aren't horrible, but not not my ideal. Next time out, we will be back with our next episode of Clone Watch.
01:53:38
Speaker
So at least three of the voices on this show will be on. I don't think that was one of my demands. I don't think I don't remember. I have to look at what the episodes are again.
01:53:49
Speaker
don't think I'm back until Umbara. And then after that... Oh, that's going to be a long one. and then Yeah, I won't shut up.
01:54:00
Speaker
I'm telling you right now, I will not shut up. After the next Clone Watch, well, you and I will definitely be there. Brev will be back from the movie Defenders.
01:54:12
Speaker
And anyone else who wants to... Lauren, were you planning on joining us for this one? Which one? The X-Men from the Ashes one year later. of us. One of us.
01:54:24
Speaker
I don't think I'm familiar with that. I not going to be there. Okay, so help you that well so Betsy, you, me, and Brev.
01:54:34
Speaker
Woo! We'll leave these squares behind. and and And we'll talk about probably close to 100 X-Men books that have come out over the past year.
01:54:45
Speaker
I will try really hard to control myself. I promise. That's all I can say. I will try. but until next time, we thank you for listening and we hope you will join us again next time and see you then.
01:55:01
Speaker
Goodbye.
01:55:05
Speaker
This has been casual nerdity. We hope you've enjoyed your time with us and look forward to having you back.