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00:00:01
Pioneer at Heart - Seza Eraydin about Sustainabilty Strategy at Henkel
9 Plays1 hour ago
Seza Eraydin is a Sustainability Manager at Henkel with over a decade of experience in the field. She began her career as a sustainability consultant and now leads the global sustainability framework for the General Manufacturing and Maintenance unit, covering more than 800 industries and 400,000 customers. Her work focuses on sustainability upskilling across the organization, sustainability portfolio transformation, innovation roadmaps, and driving sustainability communication for the Loctite brand.
About the FutureStrategies podcast and your host:
I’m Florian Schleicher, a marketing strategist. I help brands gain clarity, spark momentum, and turn strategy into something that actually moves people. In 2022, I started my marketing studio FUTURESTRATEGIES. to do exactly that. I currently work with corporate clients from 11 countries.
If you want more, check out my FutureStrategies newsletter – monthly inspiration on marketing, strategy and sustainability.
And if something’s blocking your brand from doing its best work, let’s talk.
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Transcript
Introduction to Future Strategies Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
It's all about changing the business as usual. It requires some changes in different steps. It can be related with product development, with innovation teams, with customer-facing teams like sales teams or our engineers, or it can be related to our marketing colleagues. Welcome to the Future Strategies podcast. My name is Florian Schleicher. I'm a marketing strategist focused on sustainability, and I'm your host here. You can listen to my interviews with international experts, And together we will explore where marketing strategies and sustainability intersect. With great examples, insightful stories and a look behind the scenes of some amazing brands. If you're curious how to apply all of that for your own business, I do this for my clients from all around the world.
00:00:47
Speaker
But more on that at the end of this episode.
Introducing César Ereydin and her role at Henkel
00:00:49
Speaker
Now let's jump into today's interview.
00:00:55
Speaker
My guest today is César Ereydin. She is a sustainability manager at Henkel with over a decade of experience in the field. She began her career as a sustainability consultant and now leads the global sustainability framework for the general manufacturing and maintenance unit covering more than 800 industries and 400,000 customers.
00:01:17
Speaker
Her work focuses on sustainability upskilling across the organization, sustainability portfolio transformation, innovation roadmaps, and driving sustainability communication for the Loctite brand.
00:01:30
Speaker
Thank you so much for coming on the show, César. Thank you so much Florian for having me. I'm super excited. Yes, me too. I'm very happy we are able to do this conversation now. And there are a couple of things that I'm super curious to talk with you about from strategy to structure, how sustainability really becomes an industrial value.
Henkel's Sustainability Ambitions
00:01:49
Speaker
But I'd like to get started with the elephant in the room. Henkel operates in the chemical industry, which historically has a complex relationship with sustainability. Now, I would be curious for me and also for our listeners, how do you reconcile that reality with the ambition to really become us a sustainability leader?
00:02:08
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's such a good question and also a super valid question to start with. and So as you say, like i mean some of the industries are challenging in in nature.
00:02:20
Speaker
But I can give you why Henkel is a bit different and how how we are trying to put sustainability at the core of our corporate strategy. So Henkel is a very um old company. Like we are this year celebrating our 150 of birthday. So it's a family business and I think it's already built in the DNA of the company itself. So when you look at the roots of the of the of the business, we are seeing some sustainability elements that was not even so called as sustainability before. And what we try to do is putting the sustainability take at the heart of our corporate strategy with innovation and digital when we are looking at the contemporary business. framework right now. So our motto is like pioneers at heart for the good of generations.
00:03:09
Speaker
And this is maybe the the groundwork of what we are doing sustainability at Henke. And I believe like ah industries which has a greatest impact on environment,
00:03:20
Speaker
which has the biggest role. That's why, I mean, changing something, even a very small thing in ah in a huge corporation like Henkert can change so many things. So but that's why I don't think that there is a conflict between that. It's more like having the responsibility and then working towards that. So this is how I try to frame it. And I think it combines perfectly well with Henkel's traditional roots with sustainability. That's why i think this is the big elephant in the room, but I believe that we are kind of having this, let's say, with some of the strong track record that we have with with the company and also having this cultural, let's say, mindset that came from hundreds of years.
00:04:01
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I liked it a lot. And and I think also that you're spot on with the impact that a company like Henkel can actually have is such a big one. Because if you are able to change 5%, 10% off any kind of product in a more sustainable way with all the products and the reach that you have, that has a massive impact on scale.
00:04:24
Speaker
Exactly, exactly. So I can give a couple of like um examples in terms of how we are actually living. There's couple of proof points. So as we discussed, the chemical industry is one of the main drivers of climate change.
Targets for Greenhouse Gas Emission Reduction
00:04:39
Speaker
That's why having an ambitious target, ah especially for climate, is very important for Henkel. and we were setting our targets on our climate-related activities. And last year, we extended our climate commitments in line with SPTI targets, science-based targets initiative. So, Henke committed to reduce the greenhouse gas emissions 90% by 2045. Wow, 90%.
00:05:09
Speaker
Exactly. So this is one of the most ambitious targets that I have seen so far. I think that's one of the big proof points that it's not only sustainability because of we are saying sustainability, it's also taking an action and trying to understand what are the big impacts that we are creating in the industry and how we can change it accordingly.
00:05:26
Speaker
That's super ambitious. And I would be curious, How do you see the current climate of sustainability communications? Because we know like since one and a half years or even before first the war in Ukraine, then the election of Donald Trump, ah now more conflict.
00:05:44
Speaker
How do you see the the current state of sustainability yourself and also in your role?
Challenges in Sustainability Communication
00:05:50
Speaker
Because sometimes to me it feels like this is not a very good time to talk about sustainability.
00:05:56
Speaker
How is it perceived also internally at Henkel? Yeah, I mean, I can start with personally, I sometimes feel the same. Because like in most cases, it's a combination of top down and bottom up. So companies or organizations are starting their actions if they see a pressure from the society, and if they see a pressure from the regulations.
00:06:17
Speaker
And for the last couple of years, we see a negative change, let's say, I mean, honestly speaking, we're seeing the position of the big countries that are taking an action against climate actions.
00:06:29
Speaker
That's why I like personally am kind of also seeing that a bit more challenging. But at the same time, we need to look at it from a long term perspective. So ah we were discussing this seven years ago, six, five, seven years ago, when we were talking about the COVID crisis, for instance. So in times of crisis, the first reaction is not looking at climate, not looking at ESG topics in the beginning. But then we are seeing that these are the aspects that actually in the long term give the give the value for companies. That's why in the short term, I think some companies, when they are seeing this loose from the political perspective, they started to put the priority, maybe sustainability at second or third. But I think in the long term, we are we will go back to to the reality that sustainability is the only way that we can sustain our business, sustain our lives.
00:07:21
Speaker
That's why I'm a bit pessimistic for the short term, but in the long term, I believe that sustainability will be high in our global agendas as well. And I think yeah I can say we have not changed anything about our climate related targets, anything to our sustainability related targets. Maybe the communication might be a bit, I don't know, soft, maybe in in um In other terms, maybe you're not as bold as what we are doing. We are doing it sometimes mostly in in the background. But from activity perspective, from ambition perspective, we have not changed anything. And maybe opposed to that, as I said, we are also extending our our commitment, especially on climate. So we keep doing our business. We are keeping doing our business, but maybe not communicating this very, very boldly. Yeah, I get that. I also think that at the moment for external communications, I think it's actually bad to use the S word, the sustainability word, because everybody's like, oh my God, please don't talk to me about that. But there are so many examples of companies that actually do sustainable activities and they don't talk about that that much. um I teach at a couple of universities. I was at university here in Vienna ah teaching on Tuesday
00:08:40
Speaker
and What I always bring is this example of shoes. 99% of people don't want sustainable shoes. They want shoes that make them look good, shoes that look sexy, shoes that are comfortable to wear.
00:08:54
Speaker
And then if they are on top sustainable, that's good. And if we look at, and I did this as an experiment, if we look at the header sections of the websites of six of the most sustainable shoe brands, then none of them are actually talking about sustainability.
00:09:09
Speaker
They are just showing the shoes because that's what people actually want. And then the second layer is then sustainability. So I think sustainability at the moment, it's not the main act when we communicate with most audiences.
00:09:23
Speaker
Yeah, I think I agree. I mean, when we are discussing about, for instance, I mean, I can put this in a framework, like we are having this three main focus areas for our sustainability agenda, I think especially for NKL adhesives. These are climate, circularity and safety. And especially for circularity, when we look at the circular solutions, when we look at the design for products that are more circular, as you see, in most of the cases, there is this perception like if the product is circular, if the product kind of contributes sustainability, you have to compromise the performance. It doesn't have, I mean, it has to be something less performance than the regular ones. That's a perception that we need to change. And sometimes, as you say, we should not highlight how sustainable the product is, how much the sustainability contribution is, or we should always combine it with
Integrating Sustainability into Business Units
00:10:17
Speaker
something that is relatable from performance perspective. This is something that we are changing to increase the performance, or this is something that we already deliver as a value from an efficiency perspective, from a durability perspective. And in addition to that, it also gives you the sustainability value. So this is also what I personally think, how we need to do the communication for sustainability. And this is also what we try to do at Enken.
00:10:43
Speaker
So in your role as a sustainability consultant, you probably talk with a lot of people from different layers of the organization, also to bring their perspectives together and then to find better solutions. um I would be curious, what are some arguments that you also use? Because I can imagine sometimes people might be hesitant to change a current process or they they ah don't see the potential that much. How do you approach that in your role?
00:11:11
Speaker
ah To maybe start with, I was working as a sustainability consultant, but now I'm kind of the in-house consultant for for our business unit. yeah and I can give you some structure of how we set up the sustainability ecosystem in in the organization to just ah give some background. So we have one corporate sustainability agenda and for like for this we have a team.
00:11:33
Speaker
But under that we have also different business units, fully commercial business units that we are actually having the the main part of the business. And for each business unit we have one team for sustainability.
00:11:46
Speaker
And my role is exactly that. I just see myself as a bridge between our corporate corporate sustainability team and our commercial teams. And my objective is to leave our sustainability ambition, basically implementing those targets that we set on corporate level. I mean, when I'm talking about being net zero, when I'm talking about being circular, ah reducing CO2 emissions or increasing um recycled materials and etc. So these are all set from a corporate perspective. And my role is actually integrating into our daily lives, and making sure that our commercial teams are also aware of that and transforming our portfolio on very specific product perspective to drive sustainability impact, positive impact. And coming to your question, like how you how you should organize this collaboration, as you said, i mean, it's it's all about changing the ah the business as usual. In some cases, we are just seeing the problem problem saying that, look, there is this sustainability to challenge that we have from formulation perspective or, I don't know, from another aspect of the product itself. So it it requires some changes ah in different steps. It it can be related with product development, with innovation teams, with customer facing teams like sales teams or our engineers, or it can be related to our marketing colleagues. So it requires having the connection with people ah whose role is not mainly on sustainability, something like an add on to them. And in order to achieve that, as we discussed previously, they always combine it with some other values that they can use.
00:13:26
Speaker
So if you are trying to promote a product that is more sustainable from a certain perspective, you always need to explain the full story. And you also tell that these are the value propositions that you can tell to your customer. In addition to that, there is a sustainability value. So they need to understand why we are doing this and what will be the output of it and how meaningful it would be for them.
00:13:46
Speaker
Do I get that right then?
Assessing Product Sustainability
00:13:48
Speaker
That it's a lot of also adding up the numbers to prove the business case of the more sustainable option? Kind of. So oh for that, we started an exercise, let's say, Henkel ATC's level. So we started to assess all of our portfolio, looking at from a sustainability point of view, like reviewing all of our products. and basically flagging them like traffic lights from their sustainability point of view so we set some let's say criteria to ah review our portfolio from as i mentioned climate circularity and safety perspective and we flag all of our products accordingly from a pioneer product which is a leader in the industry from a sustainability point of view or maybe a performer which is neutral which is totally
00:14:36
Speaker
safe and fine, but they are not adding additional sustainability value or some transitional products, which means that we need to change either the formulation or change some of the aspects to make sure that they are bringing more sustainability value.
00:14:50
Speaker
So the exercise that we have is reviewing all of our portfolio. And this is the baseline. After that, you can start steering your portfolio, looking at what are the hotspots that you should look at? What are the products that you should promote from sustainability point of view? or what are the products or what are the main technologies that you should work on your formulation to make sure that you are achieving sustainability. It's beyond compulsory reviews. It's more like a proactive and future-oriented perspective to understand how we can go beyond compliance and how we can make sure that we are providing sustainability without making greenwashing, with supporting the the sustainability claims that we have.
00:15:30
Speaker
Do you have a favorite project that came out of this traffic light portfolio analysis? So there are different levels of this analysis, but if from an output point perspective, like some of the products that we have as FLEC as ah contributors and pioneers, we have one example that we have changed the design of the packaging of the product. And initially the project was not focusing on sustainability. It didn't start because we need to make the product more sustainable, let's say.
00:15:59
Speaker
because there was a ah challenge in the design, so it wasn't user-friendly. That's why they looked at the design of the packaging and decided to change. And during the way, a we decided to add something specifically for sustainability to that as well. And at the end, we are using now for this product 70% of ah PCR plastic, post-consumer recycled plastic material.
00:16:22
Speaker
And then when we are having this, ah let's say, sustainability in general, like communication of this, let's say, innovation, we are talking like this product packaging has been newly designed based on the experience that we received from our customers. Now it's easy to use, user-friendly.
00:16:40
Speaker
And in addition to that, we are having this ah new packaging aspect, which 70% of recycled plastic, for instance. So I think it's a good example to show how you can communicate sustainability ah without doing greenwashing, like giving some proof points, plus also giving additional value that also combines with sustainability.
00:17:01
Speaker
I think this is one of the examples that I like from our portfolio. Yeah, I like that. And i I think what's so interesting about this approach is it's so important that really every employee also at Henkel knows why it's so important to care about sustainability.
00:17:18
Speaker
Because if not everybody in the whole project team and the whole company knows why it matters that much, then people are not looking for solutions. And I feel like often those ideas actually come from somewhere along the line, maybe not always from you as the sustainability manager.
00:17:35
Speaker
And so it's super important to really get everyone on board. How is that facilitated at Henkel? Do you have regular trainings? Do you have workshops where you yeah where you onboard all the employees or how do you convey that spirit and that knowledge?
00:17:48
Speaker
Yeah, actually, we actually we do that. So we have a journey for sustainability upskilling for our organization. And although we are doing a lot of things internally, it's really up to our customer facing teams when making those claims. And I mean, it can be a very daily conversation or it can be part of our overall market and customer activation program. which means that most of the colleagues that are actually doing the sustainability messaging is not the sustainability to experts. That's why they need to become those experts, not maybe the experts, but they need to be upskilled so that they can start the the conversation. If they don't feel comfortable, if they don't think what we are doing at Henkel, if they don't understand what are the like main achievements that we have, what are the main concerns that we have, or what are the main priorities that we set, they could not tell the story to our customers and they cannot ask their concerns. That's why initiating the discussion is really about equipping our teams to make sure that they are using sustainability as ah as an additional value. And that was a challenging process, honestly speaking, because like,
00:18:54
Speaker
There are lots of things going on. I mean, things have been changing rapidly. We are asking customer-facing colleagues doing a lot of things. I mean, using digital tools more wisely. like engaging AIs or doing different, let's say, ways. That's why it's it's super difficult for them to understand.
00:19:10
Speaker
That's why I try to make it simplified. Like, I mean, what exactly that we can do. And I tried to do something previously and I believe it works it's working well. ah It goes beyond to our brand strategy. So Loctite is our leading brand for our business. And basically when we are building this brand strategy, we define four strategic pillars.
00:19:30
Speaker
And sustainability was one of them, like expertise, ah partnership, innovation and sustainability. And what we try to do is to embed sustainability to everything what we do. And basically, this term can be seen as a new term, like a new ah buzzword, a new popular word that we start to use in the in the last five years. So this could be the perception for people who are in the business for 20 years, 20 years, and etc. But what we try to do is try to show how it was already embeds in our DNA, in our loctite brand DNA. Because when we look at the main one of our main value ah propositions of the brand, it's all about ah increasing the efficiency.
00:20:12
Speaker
It's all about reducing waste, ah increasing reliability, and extending the lifetime of the business. Because it's all about repairing, like maintaining and repairing different assets. And it's basically contributing to sustainability without saying it. So what I try to do is to just show this. like Sustainability is all about the new terminology that we have. Yes, we have this...
00:20:33
Speaker
ah scope 1, 2, 3 emissions, we have a super complex terminology that we need to define for sustainability. But at the same time, what you are doing in your daily business, when you are engaging with the customer, when there's when you are saying that it's better to repair instead of replacing a new piece, is related to sustainability. So let's start from there. Let's make sure that we are doing something very ah compatible with sustainability and then looking at our terms with modern sustainability challenges and looking at the solutions from there. But setting the scene was really helpful.
00:21:08
Speaker
to make sure that engaging those because as long as they will see this as a I don't know a new buzzword a new popular ah term that will go ah go away in in five years they will not get this so getting this buy-in is really important. Yeah, and and I like especially ah the approach that you mentioned to simplify things as much as possible, because most of the time when we think about sustainability, it's all about complications and changes and the different perspectives we
Simplifying Sustainability Communication
00:21:38
Speaker
need to have in mind. But if we bring it down to something very simple, and for example, that's why i love the the
00:21:44
Speaker
the approach that you mentioned of saying, hey, it has always been part of our identity to increase lifespan of things, to to increase durability. So that's per se and so a sustainable approach, because if I fix something with an extensive product, then I increase the duration of its life. So it doesn't need to go to waste and so on. Overall, whenever we talk about marketing, the simpler, the better in communication. So I really appreciate that you sharing that also. Yeah, but that being said, sometimes it can be challenging as well because there's always this tension between having this simplified message versus not doing greenwashing.
00:22:23
Speaker
yeah That's why when you are building your sustainability communication or anything that you are making as a communication and implementing any sustainability message, it should be supported with some proof points. There should be some validation behind when you are making some sustainability claims and it can be challenging. So honestly, it so it's a challenge that we're also trying to figure out how we can how we can make sure that we are making these simple messages and showing this additional value without doing greenwashing. Because if you start to give this, let's say, proof points, it gets more technical and it gets a bit more difficult. That's why having the balance between showing what you do
00:23:01
Speaker
and showing what the improvements that you do showing this ambitious view with simple terms and supporting this with proof points is the challenge that we try to also explore in our journey.
00:23:11
Speaker
Yeah, that's that that's an especially big challenge. And ah for our listeners also, this is part one of a deep dive also on Henkel because next week I'm going to have a conversation with your colleague, Laura, and we'll also talk more about the marketing and communications and product side of the Loctite brand and how it actually then ah gets delivered into the products. So I'm very much looking also forward to that.
Optimism and Future Planning in Sustainability
00:23:34
Speaker
Cesar, before I go to the three final questions that I ask everybody on the podcast, I would be curious, do you have any questions for me? Yeah, actually I do. we kind of briefly got to there in some of our discussions. But my question to you was, since you're engaging with lots of experts from sustainability, especially connecting sustainability with communications and corporate perspective, and seeing the the current situation that we have in the world right now, what is your perception of future of sustainability? So do you feel discouraged or do you feel a bit pessimistic? by the current challenges, the political ones, economic ones, or are you more being in the optimistic side and believe that it will be still high, it will stay still high in our global agenda? That's a very good question and I think a very pressing one also.
00:24:24
Speaker
I would like to actually quote you on that, that I'm pessimistic short-term and optimistic long-term. I like that perspective. I am per se an optimist.
00:24:34
Speaker
I always think there are solutions and if we put our minds together, we can find a way. I feel like at the moment, like when I started working at Too Good To Go as the head of marketing, it was the summer of 2019. Sustainability and the climate crisis was the number one topic we had. People were marching on the streets and there was this this feeling in the air of, hey, we can actually achieve something. we can We can change something. And then COVID happened, then the Ukraine war and then so on. And then it got watered down again and again.
00:25:05
Speaker
and the The fun thing, or let's call it fun, is even though politics doesn't care about sustainability that much at the moment, that doesn't matter to the climate. That doesn't matter to our planet. like It will warm up. There will be more extreme weather events. If we talk about it or not, it doesn't change anything about that. If we change something or not, it doesn't change anything about that. So I feel like it will come back to us.
00:25:36
Speaker
And the companies and the policymakers that actually have a plan right now how to deal with that will just be very much better equipped to then deal with the situations that we will have.
00:25:48
Speaker
And um I'm very happy that companies like yours and others that I have on the show here are actually showing what we can do. And I feel like this is also the part why I started this podcast to actually share all of these perspectives, all of these things that are already happening.
00:26:04
Speaker
to also say, hey, there is a lot of good happening also, even though we see all the negative news all the time, but there are companies and there are people working really tirelessly on bringing change. And as long as there are people like you, like I, and many others, I feel like that gives me hope and optimism that we're going to get through this.
00:26:26
Speaker
But it's definitely a bump in our road right now. Yeah, thanks for answering. I think what I think is that um we kind of have to be optimistic for the for the long term. Because I mean, if you are in the sustainability business from one way or another, there has to be this hope that you can change some things because otherwise it would be super difficult to to continue what you're doing. And as you say, like the more I hear more about those stories, it's also ah supporting ah the belief that it's It will be okay maybe in the long term. That's why we need more of those um best practices or more passionate people for solidarity, I guess. Yeah. And just looking at how many people work on sustainability right now, how many people, even though they don't fully behave sustainable, say they care about sustainability, the share has never been higher than it is now.
00:27:20
Speaker
And it's our generation working in the companies and working with the companies to actually improve and to get people on board and to to also convince customers that this is a better way.
00:27:30
Speaker
And as long as we have these people, We will find a way. So almost almost a perfect ending, but i I still want to get your perspective on the three final questions. And I would ask you for ah rather short answers to really make this like a quick fire session. So I would be curious, what is good marketing slash sustainability communications to you in three words?
00:27:53
Speaker
Yeah, I thought about this before i before I connect. To me, it's three terms like honest, because like having this integrity with sustainability marketing, as I mentioned before, supporting these claims with proof points is super important. um The second one is being bold.
00:28:09
Speaker
Like it it should be creative and inspirational to show these good examples and it should be meaningful. It should be customer centric. It should deliver real solutions to our customers so that there is nice fit with them. So these are the three main, let's say, aspects of good marketing from sustainability point of view.
00:28:27
Speaker
I like that a lot. Thank you. Second question. What is the future of marketing? Yeah, it's it's a difficult one, but I also thought about this. and So I believe we are living in a constant change. Maybe we have not experienced this in in the in the history before. So the way we work, the way we learn, the way we communicate is changing rapidly. It's not it's super difficult to keep up. But marketing should follow this. It should keep up with this ah with this very constant change. But it should also...
00:29:00
Speaker
When it's being dynamic and keeping up with these changes, implementing those, it should be also keeping this human focus. It should be, I believe, having this dynamic approach with a human touch would be a key for differentiating your marketing.
00:29:14
Speaker
I like that. Final question, personal one, because I read a lot of books, so I'm always curious what other ah people are reading. What is a book that you would like to recommend here? Yeah, so unfortunately it's a Turkish one that there's no translation of it. But I wanted to mention this because I really like this. was a recent book that I read. So there's a Turkish book called Yaşını Gösteren Kadınlar, which means women who look their age.
00:29:38
Speaker
So I'm a feminist, I'm a very proud feminist, and I really like um i like the intersectionality of feminism. i really like I'm really interested to read those kind of topics in terms of how gender and other aspects like ethnicity, ah age, abilities, um origin or geography, those kind of aspects or class, are intersecting with each other. And this book is about a group of feminists. So they're like pieces of essays and they're all in letter format. and The women are sharing their experience of getting old, having a aging, plus having their experience, how it's connected with feminism. And we have not discovered this, I think, a lot, like this intersection between ageism and feminism. That's why I really like the concept, like reading those letters as it was written to me. And I really like the the like reading those experiences of women from very different ages and how they see ah ah their experience of getting old and ah being a feminist. though so I love that. I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that one. I will put it in the show notes so that our listeners also can have a look at it.
00:30:47
Speaker
So César, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been a real pleasure talking with you. Thank you for sharing your perspectives, your ideas, your approach also. I know you have a busy schedule, so I really appreciate you taking the time and speaking with me.
00:31:00
Speaker
Of course, likewise. I'm so happy that I joined and thanks so much for having me. Thank you. see you soon. See you. Bye.
00:31:17
Speaker
And that's it for today. Thank you so much for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, please forward it to a friend or a colleague. This would mean the world to me as I pour my heart and a lot of energy into producing this podcast with all the brilliant minds that share their perspective here.
00:31:34
Speaker
And if you know the value that a great marketing strategy brings to really connect with your target audience, give me a call or send me a message. I'd love to get to know you and your projects.
00:31:45
Speaker
You can find me on LinkedIn, Instagram, or through my newsletter, where I write in-depth thought pieces that help you build a successful and exciting marketing strategy.
00:31:56
Speaker
Again, thank you so much for listening. I really look forward to sharing more with you in the future.