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🎬 Story meets Action - Mirko Tosoni from WaterBear about the Role of Stories for Climate Action
61 Plays28 days ago
Mirko Tosoni is Head of Marketing at WaterBear, a social action platform where storytelling meets impact and community. After seven years at Nike growing the brand and inspiring people to move, he now focuses on fostering communities that drive collective action to protect the planet and build a more sustainable future for all.
About the FutureStrategies podcast and your host:
I’m Florian Schleicher, a marketing strategist. I help brands gain clarity, spark momentum, and turn strategy into something that actually moves people. In 2022, I started my marketing studio FUTURESTRATEGIES. to do exactly that. I currently work with corporate clients from 11 countries.
If you want more, check out my FutureStrategies newsletter – monthly inspiration on marketing, strategy and sustainability.
And if something’s blocking your brand from doing its best work, let’s talk.
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Transcript
Introduction to WaterBear and its mission
00:00:00
Speaker
People are tired of just being exposed to news that are not necessarily positive all the time. More often than not, they're negative. And I think that is exactly what we're trying to do at Waterbird is helping you to connect with a cause, getting inspired, getting to know what that is, and eventually get you to care about it. so that Because if you care, then you're more willing to do something about it. And that is where em impact unlocks.
00:00:24
Speaker
Welcome to the Future Strategies Podcast. My name is Florian Schleicher. I'm a marketing strategist focused on sustainability and I'm your host here. You can listen to my interviews with international experts and together we will explore where marketing strategies and sustainability intersect with great examples, insightful stories and a look behind the scenes of some amazing brands.
00:00:47
Speaker
If you're curious how to apply all of that for your own business, I do this for my clients from all around the world. But more on that at the end of this episode. Now let's jump into today's interview.
Meet Mirko Zosoni: From Nike to WaterBear
00:01:01
Speaker
My guest today is Mirko Zosoni. He is the head of marketing at WaterBear, a social action platform where storytelling meets impact and community. After seven years at Nike, growing the brand and inspiring people to move, he now focuses on fostering communities that drive collective action to protect the planet and build a more sustainable future for all.
00:01:26
Speaker
Welcome to the show, Mirko. Thank you, Florian. Very nice to be here.
WaterBear: Combining Media with Activism
00:01:30
Speaker
So for those in our audience who don't know what WaterBear is, what is it? WaterBear is a free streaming platform. So if you go on WaterBear today, if you download the app and visit the app, WaterBear looks like a streaming platform. We have been investing a lot in award-winning films and documentaries, really giving voice to a lot of filmmakers around the world, especially the ones from like on the front line of the climate change to really tell stories of communities and individuals that are facing first and what climate change and sustainability and a lot the environmental
00:02:04
Speaker
issues that we're seeing today, how people were experiencing all of that. And I think the biggest piece to the puzzle that we felt was missing from the streaming world was the connection to action. A lot of times when you watch a documentary on Netflix, you will be left with the question,
00:02:20
Speaker
I mean, these all feel terrific or yeah really interesting, but what can I do? And think that is where whatever can tap into. And and since there since the beginning, that action step, that extra step that you can take to really make an impact, it's what we've always been trying to invest on. And we're doing that today as well with all of our efforts.
00:02:43
Speaker
And then maybe we're going to go more in into detail and later on in the conversation. But we're currently going through another revolution where we're moving a little bit away from being a streaming platform. and become what we call, as you said in the introduction, a social action platform where storytelling remains. It's still at the core.
00:03:03
Speaker
ah Impact is still there, but we want to feature and and an enhance communities a lot more than what we've been doing until now. So it's really the combination or the intersection of storytelling, impact, and community coming together to really create collective action at scale.
Defining a New Impact Space
00:03:21
Speaker
So I feel like also the first time that that we got introduced, a colleague of mine, they mentioned you and WaterBear. And I also had to go to the website and and just experience it. and And I think really the simplest thing, as you mentioned, is it's a streaming platform for nature documentaries, for films about environmental change and environmental action.
00:03:43
Speaker
So I think a really interesting thing is that WaterBear then sits off an intersection kind of of media, of activism, of technology.
00:03:55
Speaker
How do you internally then define the brand identity in between streaming, content platform, movement, media house? So so what is your self-understanding of WaterBear?
00:04:07
Speaker
I would say there's been lots of hours of discussions and conversations on that. it's It's not easy, I would say, just because the impact space also, I feel it's big, but it hasn't really shaped completely.
00:04:19
Speaker
a lot of the impact companies are still finding their way, finding their groove. like and Lots of the impact companies are also pretty small. It's hard to find companies. companies that are focusing on impact. And I think that is also because it's almost like a new category that that we're building. And as Waterbird, surely we are investing into this new category, which sits at the intersection, as you said, of media.
00:04:40
Speaker
And I'm going to digress slightly there. The reason why we created Waterbird initially was because we didn't believe that the media industry was doing a good job, especially in the in impact space. A lot of the, let's say, documentaries and films that were created and and were broadcasted and distributed,
00:04:55
Speaker
Their success was measured based on views and awards won or or likes if it was distributed online. And we felt the real goal of those for documentaries has always been like making an impact. track And of course, you can make an impact with awareness and education. That's also something that we measure ourselves.
00:05:10
Speaker
But there's also a lot more that can be achieved. And that is the extra step that we're trying to do as both of us. We have been talking for a lot for for a long time about metrics that matter. Metrics that really give a reason to measure your success. So number of petitions you've signed or number of or the amount of donation that you're able to unlock or the volunteering experiences and so on. So it's really giving access to a much more in-depth impact that can be done through through the content. And that's regarding the media space. We are surely still part of that media space.
00:05:43
Speaker
We have been focusing a lot on films, but going forward, we're also going to focus
Exploring Content Formats and Brand Partnerships
00:05:47
Speaker
more on shorter and different types of formats. We are starting to work with creators, so there's going to be a lot more creator-led content coming to the platform on articles. If you've visited Waterloo recently, there are so a few articles on the platform.
00:06:00
Speaker
Still finding our are way there. So Yeah, there's there's definitely going to be some evolution. We are going also going to publish events. We're going to publish podcasts at some point. So and actions, obviously, which is at the center. So in that sense, the media space in which we are in is very diverse and is trying to become a bit of a one stop shop.
00:06:20
Speaker
On the activism side, that's a little bit where our positioning is. differed probably through the years. and And I think we don't feel we are an activist company.
00:06:31
Speaker
We do support and we work with a lot of activists. We work with a lot of NGOs. We have around 100 NGOs in our portfolio that we've worked with through the years and we're still in active relationships with. So we definitely do support advocacy work.
00:06:45
Speaker
But we do think that activism is really about activating people's my heart is not necessarily going out to protest or signing petitions. Those are all actions that we support and sometimes we push for, but it's really trying to get to people's minds and hearts and really get them to experience what impact can be wherever you are in your impact journey.
00:07:06
Speaker
There might be people coming in because they have heard for the first time about climate change. And we do have content that quite simply explain what climate change is. And then there are activists that use our platform that use it to dive deeper into their knowledge and really trying to find inspiration in the dark times with positive stories, but also trying to learn a lot more about potentially spaces in which they're not experts yet.
00:07:29
Speaker
So it's really trying to find members wherever they are. I love this whole concept. And now let's go to the obvious question. How do you finance yourself? Because you're giving away all this content for free. You're doing a lot.
00:07:42
Speaker
And the elephant in the room, I think, is budgeting. So where does the money come from? Yeah, I would say free is probably the most common questions we get and what question we get from our community and and the people we talk about, whatever from.
00:07:56
Speaker
But it's also one of our most important features. The reason is very simple. like From the beginning, we've always thought and believed that playing our part in the and like to make an impact shouldn't be behind the paywall.
00:08:08
Speaker
So we have been trying to build a business model that would allow us to stay free and remain free for our members so that everyone around the world, whatever they'll income or or access, they could access the platform.
00:08:22
Speaker
But on our side, obviously, we need to monetize and we are a company, we're not an NGO, we are a for profit business, right? So we need to find ways to monetize. And so far that's happened through a lot of partnerships with big and major brands.
00:08:35
Speaker
So the way we do that is the likes of Rolex or Patagonia, Nikon, Jack Wolfskin, those are all brands that we have been partnering with over the the the years. When they want to tell a story about something happening in the world that might not necessarily or usually isn't focused about their product or or something that they would normally talk about on on their own social channels, they know that they can come to us, find an audience that responds well to those stories because it's an audience that already kind of talks that same language.
00:09:04
Speaker
and leverage our platform either to distribute some content that they have they haveve created all content that we decide to co-create together. It's never about the brand. It's never about their product. It's often about a cause around the world that they support and that they want to give a voice to.
00:09:21
Speaker
It's been a really fascinating journey. there I think exposing ourselves to so many different audiences, different brands and different stories has allowed us as well to create a platform that is very
Navigating the Streaming Landscape
00:09:32
Speaker
diversified and allowed us to really get to the frontline of where stories are actually happening and getting people from those same places to tell the stories. A lot of the productions we've done were not, let's say, produced in Amsterdam or in London, where we have people sitting and and sending our production crews around the world and then getting those stories produced. It's really about working with, let's say we're saying we're telling a story about someone in Kenya or something happening in Kenya. Then we get in contact with some filmmakers or a filmmaking crew in Kenya so that they can be the ones telling the story and filming and and being there.
00:10:06
Speaker
And we think that has been ah really, really important. And now we're moving more into creator-led content. So that is also changing. For the future, some of those brand partnerships are going to... I mean, we're still going to aim to continue and and work with brands, but we're also looking at different ways of monetizing that leverage more the platform itself as a social platform. So I'm not saying that we're building a social channel, but there's definitely going to be some social component in there.
00:10:33
Speaker
And so we're looking at ways where creators that come on board can monetize directly on the platform. Think of ways like getting tips or or donations directly from their following. ways of where we get brands to come on board and finance, for example, a budget that the community can donate to certain NGOs dependent by engaging with the specific content that we distribute on the platform.
00:10:56
Speaker
We're really looking into different ways. We are testing a lot of revenue streams ah for us, but also for creators. And yeah, I'm really excited to see what that will unlock. What we are trying to do as much as possible, and we will defend it for as long as we can, is really trying to avoid having a paywall for the ah members coming to the platform.
00:11:16
Speaker
Yeah. So you are you have figured out the financial game. That's a very strong statement. That's what we're trying to figure it out. But I mean, like working with brands like Patagonia, Rolex, National Geographic, I just in my lunch break, I watched a video that was so sponsored by Napagiri. So there are amazing brands that work with you.
00:11:36
Speaker
The next big thing is probably competition. So you're competing with the giants of Netflix, Disney, and so on. And of course, they have, even though you work with these amazing brands, they have way more budget.
00:11:52
Speaker
So how do you capture eyeballs or how do you retain attention also when most of the time, even if people have downloaded the WaterBear app, they will go to, okay, I'm just opening Netflix. I'm just opening YouTube because that's what I know that I can do.
00:12:10
Speaker
What's the challenge here and how do you approach that?
Evolving into a Community-Driven Platform
00:12:13
Speaker
There's definitely a challenge and that that is also why we're going through this evolution right now. The streaming space is incredibly crowded and we want to make sure that we remain relevant just because the more people join in, the larger our community, the the larger the collective impact that we can make. right Competing with the likes of Netflix or or disney but Disney Plus or or other out there, even YouTube out there, it's obviously very challenging, especially for a small startup that doesn't have huge budgets.
00:12:38
Speaker
But that's also why we are kind of evolving into this direction where we're not going to be a streaming platform anymore. We're really, really vocal about it. And that is also the repositioning work that we have to do over the next weeks and months with these new features coming in, creators coming in, and all these new...
00:12:54
Speaker
model that we're building. And it's really leveraging on the moment we're living in and focusing on things that are not, let's say, to compete with the Netflix of the world, but really trying to focus on what is the impact that we can make and how do we leverage the community or empower, probably better said, the community to make a larger impact.
00:13:14
Speaker
And yeah, I think the moment we live in kind of justifies a lot of this evolution. People are tired of just being exposed to news that are not necessarily positive all the time. So often, more often than not, they're negative. And we really want to spark that light of positivity and hopefulness rather than leaving people feel helplessness. So it's Yeah, it's really focusing on on this evolution we're going through and the society is asking for it. The insights and the community and the audience that we are interviewing and and asking the questions to is telling us that that is the right move. So now we're really positive and really eager to make that come to life. And you mentioned what what you try to do is to get those viewers to also become doers, to become part of the movement, to actually take action.
00:14:02
Speaker
And when we look at the data, i just ah in the morning, I read ah a a study from the Joint Research Center that looked at that 34% thirty four percent of respondents aged 16 to 30 use social media sites more than two hours a day.
00:14:19
Speaker
One third actually is neglecting work, is neglecting family, is neglecting school, is neglecting their social life because of that. So people become more and more passive by just looking at screens.
00:14:33
Speaker
So what are some strategies that you might have already experienced with that actually work in making people become more people who take action activists on a small level also compared to just sitting on the couch and doom scrolling?
00:14:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's a very good question. And those are insights we're also getting from our own research. There are, I think... Two things. One is editorially. It's really important what content you put out there.
00:15:02
Speaker
As I was mentioning earlier, people are really tired of the news. Everything is negative. Everything is doomed. And I think especially in the climate and impact space, the doom and gloom is really popular and really common. while we the The shift we've gone through through the years is really changing that editorial approach and talking about positive solutions, innovative solutions, communities that are really embracing, even in a small scale, whatever possibilities They have to make something for good. And then when we look specifically at building a platform that is more similar to a social channel, in that regard, I think it's incredibly important to build a platform that doesn't reward clickbait or fake news or just the content, the latest content that creates outrage. And so the more engagement...
00:15:47
Speaker
but building an algorithm that rewards doing good. So lot of the creators that we're bringing on board, and we're now in this phase where we're trying to recruit 100 funding creators. So if you're a creator out there listening to this, reach out. with We'd love to partner. What we're trying to do is really to...
00:16:04
Speaker
get them on the platform because they believe that their content can make an impact. Oftentimes, even impact creators, they throw their content out there on the major social channels where they've built huge audiences over the years and still get a thousand, 10,000 views on their on each ah ah piece of content that they create.
00:16:23
Speaker
potentially spending resources, time on on building it and also having potential inaction connected to it. But still people don't see it because the algorithm doesn't prioritize that type of content. and We're trying to offer ourselves as a solution to that. And so if you're scrolling on whatever, it's not doom scrolling.
00:16:42
Speaker
it's It's really trying to get you to learn new things, getting inspired by incredible stories and get you to take the right action because it's only together that we can make a difference. Individual actions do count, but only when there is a community that kind of does those actions together.
00:16:58
Speaker
Fascinating. I want to circle back to one thing that I mentioned when I introduced you, which is you spent many years working at Nike in marketing and product roles. And I would be interested, what were some of the most powerful lessons or maybe the the most powerful one in brand audience engagement culture that you're applying today at WaterBear?
Lessons from Nike: Storytelling and Community
00:17:20
Speaker
I love that question. I never got asked that before. Well, working at Nike was, i mean, i love I loved working at Nike. i I worked there for seven years. I worked there with, I still have a lot of friends or colleagues that I call friends and I think, especially working in marketing, Nike is one of the probably best companies out there, right?
00:17:41
Speaker
Absolutely. the major question The major lesson I learned is probably the importance of storytelling. and And it's something that kind of moved or or yeah, kind of moved me to look at Waterbird as the next step in my career after leaving Waterbird, because I think the power of storytelling is sometimes it's undeniable, but it's also something that goes beyond any marketing campaign. Sometimes you plan for something and then because of the story that you're building, ah the unexpected happens.
00:18:13
Speaker
And that that is something that we're trying to build at Waterbird. And the editorial engine that we're building at Waterbird does invest a lot in that storytelling. And it's not just in the marketing that we do, but really in the content that we create, how we tell the story, what are the stories that we want or that we don't want to support. Because eventually we want to make sure that we are still very strong with our values. And and if there're if if the work that we do does not align with our values, then it's probably not worth worth doing. So yeah, that is probably the most important lesson than I've got about working at Nike. And the second one that comes to mind is the importance of working with communities.
00:18:49
Speaker
and done lot work with communities during my time at Nike. I've worked there for the running category most of the time, which at Nike is one of the major categories and biggest sports that Nike, well, Nike was founded as a running company. So there's a lot of heritage there as well.
00:19:06
Speaker
And I think the the time invest I invested with with our team with my teams and and the people I work with, getting people to fall in love with sport and falling out with running specifically for me, that was making me feel alive and giving me the reason of going to work every day. And it's only after a few years working there that I started to get in the back of my mind that kind of voice telling me, yes, you're making people fall in love with sport, but you're also...
00:19:34
Speaker
contributing to producing so many shoes and polluting the planet because of it, which eventually led me to leave Nike and look for a different alternative that was more aligned to my own values. But the importance of communities is something that I learned there and started to learn there and I still carry with me that it And they're still doing it. I read the other month about the run clubs that they still maintain. And I think that's such a beautiful example because you make it brand tangible.
00:20:01
Speaker
And it's not about the product so much, but about the community that you bring together. Yeah, and I agree. And what I loved is is this, that you mentioned the importance of storytelling that you learned.
Effective Storytelling in Impact Creation
00:20:12
Speaker
I worked for McDonald's and I also like I had one of the best times working there and learning there. And for me, the biggest learning was so repetition. Hmm. You repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. And this was one of the things that my former head of marketing there told me when I tried to change part of a campaign. And he said, no, Florian, if if you can't hear it anymore, if you get really sick by saying it just one more time, your audience will begin to understand what you've been trying to communicate.
00:20:44
Speaker
So I think those those lessons that you learn at the big companies, I think they are so valuable. I agree. Yeah, it's really strong. It's... um you were You were mentioning that the ah the yeah the article that you were mentioning and I write your report. I've seen the the article specifically about like training. The return to real, yeah.
00:21:01
Speaker
Yeah, and I did work on that digital content when I was still at Nike because all the audio guided run is something. It's a project i i kind of drove initially across Europe. And that is, I think, a clear example. And I'm talking specifically about the Nike Run Club app.
00:21:15
Speaker
If you go in the Nike Run Club app, you have these audio-guided runs that are... It's like having a coach in your ears that help you running. And I think that is an example of storytelling. We're not telling you go out and run and figure out how to run a 10K race or run your next marathon.
00:21:30
Speaker
We are providing you with the storyline that helps you understand, how do I get from zero to running a 10K? And providing you with the tools to get step after step all the way ready to run a race. And I think in the impact space, a lot of the times we use all this jargon, we use all these terms and expect that people just understand.
00:21:50
Speaker
And it's like expecting someone has never run to run a 10K tomorrow. We need to provide the tools and we need to provide that journey wherever that person you're talking to is sitting in their impact journey. They might be at the very beginning, they might be midway through, they might be activists.
00:22:06
Speaker
You just need to use a different way of talking to them and different provide different tools so that the impact that they make is kind of adapted to their own level and they can make the biggest impact eventually.
00:22:17
Speaker
I love that. Maybe coming back once more to the brand corporations, because I anticipate that a lot of our listeners will be super curious on how you get those. In our pre-conversation, we talked a little bit about that we need to move away from good guys and or bad guys narratives, because whenever a company does a step forward that is significant, it is good and we need to talk about it.
00:22:38
Speaker
So can you maybe elaborate also a little bit on that, how you choose those partners? Absolutely. So with brands specifically, it's really easy to fall into greenwashing. And that's something we're very aware of and something we're...
00:22:51
Speaker
very committed to stay away from. It's also really challenging because a lot of times brands do come to us because they want to do better. And it's it's hard to say because you're Coca-Cola, if you're talking about removing plastic, they're not going to work with you.
00:23:06
Speaker
Because then you get into the details of saying, we're not working with Coca-Cola because they're the biggest polluter out there, or we're working with Coca-Cola because they're finally understanding that they need to do something.
00:23:18
Speaker
Yeah. Well, we have been using over the years a tool that we call the moral compass, which is um it's a very simple tool. Basically, our sales team or or the team that brings in the partners, they do a bit of research quite in depth most of the times about the brands that we are about to partner with or the ones in which we are in conversations with.
00:23:37
Speaker
And then they share those insights to the rest of the company, the positive and the negative. And then the rest of the companies ask to vote. And only if we reach a certain threshold, which is around 80, 90% of the rest of the company, feeling that it's a brand going worth going after, then we partner with them.
00:23:56
Speaker
Obviously, that is the best case scenario. Then there are... Obviously, we are startup, right? So we need to bring in the money. We can't necessarily be incredibly picky with every brand because otherwise no brand is perfect out there. We have an imperfect system. And I truly believe that we need to embrace imperfection if we want to move forward in the impact space. So eventually it's about defining what are or what is the company trying to do?
00:24:23
Speaker
What is their past? What's their present? What do they look at as their future? And how do we ah do we sit in that journey? Are we actually helping them achieve a future that we align to?
00:24:35
Speaker
Or we are jumping on a path we don't align to and then being complacent and and and yeah just contributing to the bad that they're causing. So It's not an easy one. And it often goes back to like doing a bit of research, but also trying to talk to the to the rest of the team and really figure out what is the best best way of moving forward.
00:24:54
Speaker
Thank you so much for for sharing that. I think that's that's the important thing that we don't antagonize also companies who actually want to change.
Encouraging Progress Over Perfection
00:25:03
Speaker
And that's the tricky part. How do we differentiate that? and And I think something like your moral compass, I think that's it's really important to have it because I mentioned this example sometimes when I talk with the students at the university of where i also teach education.
00:25:17
Speaker
green marketing and sustainable marketing, if Coca-Cola would decide to make all of their plastic bottles 10% more sustainable, that would be such a huge impact.
00:25:29
Speaker
And if we then point fingers at them and say, but you're not doing enough and we play the blame game, then maybe they will shy away at a certain point to even talk about this. And then we're not talking about sustainability anymore.
00:25:42
Speaker
And then it all goes to shits. So I think it's a very fine line and you need to be really precise on where you draw that line. I agree, which is already happening. Green hushing is a thing. Brands are shying away from talking impact or talking change because they're ah that they're worried of what the community, what the people are going to say because they're not doing enough rather than ah celebrating what they're already doing.
00:26:06
Speaker
And in doing so, I also don't want to, let's say, fall into the other spectrum of saying, As long as you do something, that's enough, because that is also harmful. So yeah, it's a really fine line and something that has to be probably tackled case by case.
00:26:21
Speaker
Yeah. and And then understanding, are these people actually putting their hand on their hearts and and really thinking we're trying to do more good, or it's just a way to get more shareholders to invest over the next quarter.
00:26:35
Speaker
Yeah, that's a tricky part. Mika, do you have any questions for me? i do, actually. i I wonder, like what we've been talking about creators, right? and And we are we live in a in an age where socials are becoming more and more controversial. And for impact creators specifically, my question to you is, ah do you think impact creators should tackle, let's say, telling stories that can make change? And what are the platforms you think are performing best in doing so? Or where, let's say, should they invest their time and energy?
00:27:11
Speaker
Super interesting question. I listened yesterday, Sunday is usually the day where listen to them a lot of podcasts. And I was listening to a podcast about the creators of the MAGA movement.
00:27:23
Speaker
okay It was a report by the Washington Post. And I think we can learn a lot. Unfortunately, the far right or or the Trump campaign, they are really good at doing content.
00:27:35
Speaker
Otherwise, they wouldn't have won two times. And what they're doing is they actually built... these relationships long term. They give the creators full access to anything.
00:27:50
Speaker
And actually, they invite creators to come along, to to be in their meetings. They they started influencer press conferences. They keep them really close. They keep them engaged.
00:28:03
Speaker
So this is learning number one for me. to really build those relationships on eye level, to give full access. And the second thing, and that's now interesting why those creators have such a reach also from the MAGA movement is because it's an interconnected ecosystem. So what happens is an influencer gains access to a politician. They ah create video and content together with them like they would be a journalist, but not with any journalistic ethical standards.
00:28:35
Speaker
And what then happens is this piece of content gets reposted by all the other creators that are also aligned with this general idea. And then it gets picked up by Fox News or Newsmax.
00:28:48
Speaker
And then it it gets streamed to other audiences who might not follow those people. And then those creators can again go back and talk about, hey, I was featured on this platform.
00:29:00
Speaker
then their reach again increases. And when they post the next thing, it has ah multitude of the original reach. So building this community also, because you were talking about community, I think that is very important too to also bring those creators together.
00:29:16
Speaker
And for that, you need a shared vision. And really, ah I'm on a communicative level. I'm fascinated by the amount and the quality of what's happening in the United States with the MAGA movement, also from the far right, unfortunately in Europe, because they have a vision.
00:29:35
Speaker
And I think that's something that we miss in the in the left, in the sustainability movement. What is our vision? Is it just... Let's make things not worse. That's not a very appealing vision, but to change the government, to change how how everything works together.
00:29:53
Speaker
I think that vision is really interesting. So full access, community, and to have a vision that everybody can subscribe to it that then connects people together. I love that. it's um Thank you. it's I love the very thorough answer but on a concrete example. And it's it's something that we are trying to do with the creators who are bringing bringing on board. As i was mentioning earlier, we just started this this Funding Creators program.
Engaging Creators and Community Building
00:30:20
Speaker
And every Wednesday now we are hosting workshops open to the creators that want to join and open to the creators before they're actually becoming Waterbird creators just to join in and say, hey, I'm interested in what you're building or I want to learn more what you're building or i have this feedback that I think what you're doing or what you're building is not good enough. And I hear is how I think can be improved.
00:30:41
Speaker
So yeah, hopefully that that sort of community that we're building from a creator side and then eventually from the members and all the partners that we're going to bring on board, is going to help us scale some of the stories and and the impact that we're and we're working on.
00:30:56
Speaker
Yeah. Super fascinating stuff you're working on. Yeah, it's exciting. And we are very excited. So yeah, there's going to be a lot changing over the next weeks and months. So keep an eye on the app. I definitely will.
00:31:08
Speaker
Let's move on to the final three questions. Yes. I ask this everybody who comes on the show. So question number one is, Mirko, what is good marketing to you in three words?
00:31:19
Speaker
I think good marketing is impact-led. It's ethical. And going back to what I was mentioning earlier about Nike is creative. And it lands in storytelling.
00:31:30
Speaker
ah think if you do marketing and it and there's no impact that attached to it, it's a bit empty. And from where I come from, it's not just about measuring what is the investment that brings to my company, but what is the return on impact? what is What is actually the impact that you're bringing to the community? The return on impact is a...
00:31:48
Speaker
is it is it is a stat or a key figure that I think has to become way more important than it currently is in the marketing space. Ethical, I was mentioning earlier about green hushing or greenwashing. Oftentimes, a lot of companies do greenwashing in a way that yeah they just think that users wouldn't realize it or wouldn't see it. and and And I think that is very unethical and something we should move away from.
00:32:14
Speaker
And then being creative and and keeping creativity alive, especially in the age of AI, the community gives depth, ah but creativity is also what brings marketing forward. I strongly believe that is the only way the only way forward for marketing, keeping that creativity, keeping that editorial hat always on and using storytelling for good.
00:32:37
Speaker
AI is really important. and It can help in hundreds of different ways, but creativity still has to be at the forefront of the marketing that we do. yeah What is the future of marketing?
The Role of Marketing in Community and Impact
00:32:49
Speaker
I think marketing suffered a little bit of dryness over the years. I think there's a need to go back to the roots and go back to really talk to our audience and our communities.
00:33:01
Speaker
I keep going back to the work community, which is becoming an incredible buzzword today. But I do stand behind the importance of individuals coming together with sheer goals, sheer values to really make an impact.
00:33:14
Speaker
I was reading a report back in June and... ah It was incredibly fascinating to see they were talking about individual actions and discussing whether they're even relevant at all. Sometimes we say, oh, recycling doesn't really matter, right? it's not going to change the world. Or communal gardening is not really helping.
00:33:32
Speaker
But I think what's what the study was showing is that, especially for communal gardening, it's not about going and planting something that will solve climate change. It's you connecting to a community.
00:33:44
Speaker
That will open up the door to lot of other different things that you might have not been exposed to before to the point that you're going to embrace those values and then eventually stand up in a protest two months later or signing a policy two months later because that individual action you've taken together with the community has unlocked the potential that wasn't there before.
00:34:06
Speaker
And i so I think it's really going back to the roots and talking to the community, talking to the local audiences and being yeah becoming local as much as possible in a global world. It's hard sometimes to do local marketing because that requires extra budget, extra resources, but it's picking your battles and trying really to go to the heart of the of the problem and then making it experiential. i e I loved looking for your report and I think And I fully agree with everything that was on there, but I think a lot of the times we kind of go out with an a nut and think that work is done.
00:34:39
Speaker
The work is not done if the user hasn't experienced something. And that experience can be from the digital world, something and intrinsic to you that you experienced by watching a nut, or something that you go out and experience yourself first and putting your hands into the soil just to plant, and I don't know, i yeah some salad or whatever.
00:35:00
Speaker
And it also reminds me the thing that you are just saying, i read this today in a newsletter, i found it, The Meaning Metrics, that's what it's called, it's by Ben James and and he says, there are four quadrants. So on the upper left, there is things that we consume alone.
00:35:18
Speaker
and So this is the bad stuff. This is the scrolling. This is Netflix. This is shopping. This is Duolingo. Then we can also consume together. this is getting coffee, having a phone call, having a movie night.
00:35:31
Speaker
That's fun. Then we can also on the lower level, we can create something alone so we can cook a delicious meal for ourselves. We can do an art project. We can make a bike. We can write a book.
00:35:45
Speaker
That's also good. But then when we create something together, that is where meaning is found. That's about starting a movement, starting a band, building a camp together, putting on a show, crafting something as a group.
00:36:03
Speaker
And what I really loved about this is it shows where meaning is actually found. And again, it comes back to community. 100%. hundred percent We have done a lot in-depth research and the key insight that came up over and over and over again is people just wanted to connect with like-minded individuals and really struggling to find a way of doing so. Because Facebook has groups, Instagram, you have pages to which you can connect and DM.
00:36:29
Speaker
But the journey is always so fragmented. It's so hard. it It's really challenging as well if you want to do something in your own neighbor or you don't have a lot of time and you still want to engage. How do you empower that to happen? Which is and little bit of the word that we're trying. We're starting with whatever but and definitely the direction we want to go is how do we create?
00:36:49
Speaker
not local chapters driven by Waterbird, but more like how do we empower communities to drive their own local chapters so that they know that there are, if you come to Waterbird as a member, you know that you can just look for, don't know, a community focusing on ocean protection. And you know that there's something out there and someone you can connect where you can offer your own time or availability or just voice and just jump on the cause and do the impact yourself.
00:37:16
Speaker
Yes. Final question that I have adapted a little bit to fit our conversation.
Recommended Inspirational Content
00:37:23
Speaker
okay so usually I ask, what is a book that you would like to recommend here? I would still like to get your book recommendation, but I would also like to get your recommendation of a content that is currently on WaterBear.
00:37:35
Speaker
Nice. Yeah. So i start from the book and that is The Blue Mind. i don't know if you've read it. It's how it makes you happier, more connected. And I believe it says um more ah successful or or better at what you do by Wallace Nichols.
00:37:51
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Let's go straight to my reading list. Yeah, i I have a strong connection with water. I've always loved swimming, loved going to the seaside, and I always feel peace by the water. I live in Amsterdam, which, I mean, you don't have the sea, but you have lot of canals, and the water is always, we have an office that ah stands in front of a canal. so it's And it's incredible the good that being exposed to nature, but especially to water, can do to your life, to your mind, and and to your mood. So yeah, highly, highly recommend it. It's a book i enjoy it deeply.
00:38:25
Speaker
And then moving to Waterbury, I would say my favorite film there is True Luck, which is the, it's a story of this guy that Leads behind his life in London, where he couldn't just find his own community. He didn't enjoy being in the city anymore. He wanted to be more connected to nature and becomes a whale watching guide in Scotland.
00:38:48
Speaker
um Initially as a volunteer and then making it his own his own job. And there is a quote in there, which is, which, i yeah, struck a chord for me, um which says that once you connect to it, you care about it.
00:39:03
Speaker
If you care about it, then you're more likely to do something about it. And so I think that is exactly what we're trying to do at Waterbird is helping you to connect with a cause, getting inspired, getting to know what that is, and eventually get you to care about it. So that because if you care, then you're more willing to do something about it. And that is where em impact unlocks.
00:39:25
Speaker
I love that. I'm going to put both the book and the movie on my list now. This is a great entertainment, I think. I can also so much relate to the water part that you mentioned. I also always feel more drawn to water than land, which is a little bit difficult living in a landlocked country also.
00:39:44
Speaker
But whenever I can, try to spend as much time near water as possible. Yeah. Mirko, thank you so much for coming on the show, for taking the time.
00:39:54
Speaker
I hope we can continue this soon over a cup of coffee. Absolutely. Thank you for sharing all your insights and perspectives here with me. Thank you, Florian. Really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you for having me. See you soon.
00:40:05
Speaker
Bye. See you. And that's it for today. Thank you so much for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, please forward it to a friend or a colleague. This would mean the world to me as I pour my heart and a lot of energy into producing this podcast with all the brilliant minds that share their perspective here.
00:40:24
Speaker
And if you know the value that a great marketing strategy brings to really connect with your target audience, give me a call or send me a message. I'd love to get to know you and your projects.
00:40:36
Speaker
You can find me on LinkedIn, Instagram, or through my newsletter, where I write in-depth thought pieces that help you build a successful and exciting marketing strategy.
00:40:47
Speaker
Again, thank you so much for listening. I really look forward to sharing more with you in the future.