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🦕 "Excitement in Sustainability" - Kiki Van Son from Plant Baby about marketing for a young foodbrand
81 Plays1 month ago
Kiki Van Son is the Chief Brand Officer at PlantBaby Co, a direct-to-consumer nutrition startup designing convenient, naturally nutrient rich and minimally processed plant based foods and beverages for families. She started her career in advertising at the well known agency McCann New York, where she first made the connection between attention-harvesting-technologies and the decline of our privacy, democratic functioning, and wellbeing.
Kiki earned her M.S. in Business for Social Impact and Sustainability, researched the social media ad revenue model’s impact on mental health, worked at the Center for Humane Technology during the COVID-19 pandemic, contributed to the momentum from “The Social Dilemma,” and is a founding member of The Conscious Marketing Movement.
About the FutureStrategist podcast and Florian:
Hi, my name is Florian Schleicher I am a marketing strategist focussed on sustainability. Having worked with big corporates, NGOs, start-ups and agencies for over 15 years, I know my way around a lot of challenges. Let me help solve your challenges with my know-how and my Marketing Studio FUTURES.
Also: If you enjoy reading, be sure to check out my FutureStrategies newsletter. I write about marketing, strategies and sustainability available every three weeks and I am sure you will find a lot of exciting and helpful insights there.
And if you have a challenge that keeps you and your company from doing your best work and this challenge is about marketing, strategies or sustainability, then I’d love to get to know you and your projects!
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Transcript
Introduction to Future Strategies Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
I think marketing is really supposed to be clear communication, but imbued with enthusiasm, like a spirit behind it of why you care and why someone else should care. Welcome to the Future Strategies Podcast. My name is Florian Schleicher. I'm a marketing strategist focused on sustainability, and I'm your host here. Every two weeks, you can listen to my interviews with international experts And together, we will explore where marketing strategies and sustainability intersect with great examples, insightful stories, and a look behind the scenes of some amazing brands. If you are curious how to apply all of that for your own business, I do this for my clients from all around the world through inspiring workshops, guiding mentoring, and an exciting on online academy. But more on that at the end of this
Meet Kiki Van Zahn
00:00:50
Speaker
episode. Now, let's jump into today's interview. I'm super excited to welcome Kiki Van Zahn today. She's the chief brand officer at Plant Baby, a direct-to-consumer nutrition startup designing convenient, naturally nutrient-rich, and minimally processed plant-based foods and beverages for families. Kiki started her career in advertising at the well-known agency MacCan in New York.
00:01:15
Speaker
where she first made the connection between attention-harvesting technologies and the decline of our privacy, democratic functioning and well-being. Kiki earned her master's degree in business for social impact and sustainability. Research, social media ad revenue model impacts on mental health worked at the Center for Humane Technology during the COVID-19 pandemic.
00:01:37
Speaker
contributed to the momentum of the social dilemma and is a founding member of the Conscious Marketing Movement. I'm so happy to have you with me here today, Kiki. Thank you, Florian. I'm so excited to be here talking with you. So I want to talk with you today about two things. First, the challenge of B2C marketing for a young brand, and second also the challenge of communicating sustainability.
The Story of Plant Baby and Kiki Milk
00:02:05
Speaker
But before we dive deeper, can you please give everyone who doesn't know Plant Baby or Kiki Milk a short intro on what your brand and what your products are all about? Of course. So at Plant Baby, we are creating convenient plant-based foods and beverages for families. The products that we have in market and that we launched the company with is called Kiki Milk. The name is a coincidence. And the milk is a plant-based milk blend. So rather than a single ingredient plant milk like soy milk or almond milk,
00:02:42
Speaker
It's a handful of intentionally chosen grains, seeds, fruits, and vegetables, which you know are intended to make a powerful nutritional impact. And it was really designed to meet the nutritional needs of growing kids. It was actually conceived of as a transition milk from breast milk And the earliest versions of this product was actually created in the kitchen of our founders, Lauren and Alex Ablin, when their son was about one and needed something that was dairy free, soy free and nutrient rich. And there was nothing available to them. And then they just started this themselves. Yeah, I think what happened was, you know, that fear and frustration as new parents of not knowing what to feed their child.
00:03:33
Speaker
launched an investigation into not just you know the transition milk that they were going to feed their son right then and there, but what they were going to be feeding their son for the next however many years as he grew up. And there was sort of the insight, so much of the food in the grocery store here in the United States is filled with additives that are harmful to our bodies, their gut disrupting, their brain disrupting.
00:04:01
Speaker
and they really just lack whole food and nutrient density. So yeah, essentially the next step was, all right, like are we doing this?
Personal Journey into Health and Well-being
00:04:10
Speaker
Cool. And I joined them shortly after they launched the company.
00:04:14
Speaker
What made you join? Why did you say, okay, after working in the advertising industry, also now you want to work for the company and also for a company that focuses so much on having good impact on society and on the planet? It's a great question. It was sort of a confluence of a couple of events where I had pivoted away from the ad industry and I studied business for social impact and sustainability.
00:04:43
Speaker
And that had led me to working with the Center for Humane Technology because my focus and passion really lives at the intersection of technology and mental health. At the same time, I found myself on the island of Kauai on a totally separate quest. And that was where i I reunited with the founders of this company who were actually old friends. So a lot of serendipity in this story that that felt meant to be. But essentially the combination also of having just graduated from that program, being on
00:05:18
Speaker
the Island of Kauai, which in Hawaii, the connection between you know food and our own wellbeing is so clear because there's such an abundance of food growing. And the the lifestyle is very natural and inspired in that way. I really gravitated to this idea and it kind of opened up my eyes myself to the fact that my whole life, I have never once questioned an ingredient label.
00:05:46
Speaker
like Looking back seems wild. Yeah, and growing up on the East Coast of of the United States where it's you know, perhaps the most convenience culture in New York where everyone's on the move and Everyone's working hard. Hmm i I never really prioritized or even thought about my relationship to food.
Challenges in B2C Marketing
00:06:10
Speaker
And then, and then when I slowly started making changes to my own diet in Hawaii, and I started noticing the direct impact on my own mental health, most of all, even beyond physical, that's when sort of the my interest sort of merged. And I thought, wow, this is an amazing company doing really important work. And this is a message.
00:06:32
Speaker
that I want to help launch into the world. I love that story. And I especially love that you found this new opportunity on the island of Kauai. Having been there myself, I was just there for, I think, 10 days or so. But the energy that comes from this island, I think it's the oldest of all the Hawaiian islands. And it's just so lush. Everywhere you look, everything is green and full of energy.
00:07:01
Speaker
And I can so much see you there having these thoughts. So I really love that. Sorry. Thank you so much for sharing it. Yeah, of course. I love that you have a relationship and connection to the island too. It's so true. That was what I was stunned by. It's just such a fertile place. It's so gentle and nourishing in every single way.
00:07:21
Speaker
Yeah. So you decided to join a B2C brand and having worked myself with a lot of young startups that want to build a consumer-faced brand, I know that there are lots of challenges. So first, probably it's always a budget question. Second, it's a question how to break through all that noise that is out there.
00:07:41
Speaker
to capture the attention of your target audience also. So how do you reach people with all of this and what is your solution to still breaking through? Yeah, it's not easy.
00:07:55
Speaker
That's definitely a challenge. you know When we launched, we had a lot of strategic a couple important strategic partnerships in place, specifically with influencers in the space who had earned the trust of their audience, specifically around kind of illuminating this idea that we're all about, which is the additives in our food and how to avoid them um and what to what to look for instead. So working with a few specific people who kind of shared our message early on made a big difference for us in terms of
00:08:35
Speaker
reaching customers and establishing a customer base. What that also did was it allowed us to focus a little bit more on sort of, you you know, what we call retention marketing, which is everything that happens after someone first interacts with your brand or first makes a purchase. So the emails and the and the messaging and marketing that they receive after that order and into the future the website, their experience there, the customer service, and like direct communication with the customer.
00:09:08
Speaker
We really focused on establishing a very strong retention ecosystem, which I think has contributed a ton to how loyal our customers are. ah I think the product in itself is is the main driver of sort of our our customer loyalty and our customers really believe in what we're doing and it's made an impact on their life. But we what we see is people really want to share that, like reflect that back to us, like give us that feedback.
Retention and Email Marketing
00:09:38
Speaker
And I think that's also sort of the result of us focusing a lot on the customer experience after quote unquote, acquiring them, which is not a term that I like. And it's a term that we, that it's so common in the marketing industry. And marketing is full of of warfare terms. Like we have target audience, we have market penetration. yeah objectives. So it's always like, it comes from a very war centric perspective, or the guerrilla marketing, and another term. Yeah, this this is it's absurd. It's really absurd. And what I love what you just mentioned is that you so much focus on retention. I just finished this book called, fall in love with the problem, not the solution by Yuri Divine. He's the founder of Waze.
00:10:31
Speaker
ah wow And what he says is that the most important KPI in any company, especially young startups, should be retention. Because you have the whole market out there, then you can segment it and say, okay, this is my target audience that I want to focus on. Then you reach some of them, you are able to convert some of them. But in the end, how many are actually coming back? And also because of all the resources that you invest into getting a customer for the first time to try your product, your service.
00:11:05
Speaker
And then it's far easier to just keep them than to go on the hunt. So to say another warfare term for new ones. So I really liked that, that you focus on that very much on, on, on the retention part. Can you walk us a little bit more through on what that means? Like what are some of the measures that you're taking in retention marketing then? Yeah, great question. Also that book sounds very interesting. I got to check that out.
00:11:33
Speaker
Yeah, I'll send it to you afterwards. Cool. So some of the measures that we took was, you know, first and foremost, setting up a strong website, one that was branded in a way that we love and that feels good to be on and navigating through and communicates clearly what we're offering and functions well, and can also host information and resources that are valuable to people regardless of whether they buy a product or not.
00:12:03
Speaker
Then we took those same philosophies that sort of values first marketing perspective and we applied it to our email marketing and we put put a lot of intention into the content that we put out through email and we love email because it really it gives you the space to share the context that I think is necessary to communicate information on on most topics, but especially this topic of what's in our food and you know, why you should care. Yeah.
00:12:38
Speaker
ah So we have a combination of email campaigns that we do and that we've always done on nutrition. And then we have email flows and automations in place, which are the this series that are triggered based on different behaviors or events. So if someone, for example, comes to our site and decides not to buy, but they do enter their email to receive some communications because they're still considering buying then they enter an email flow.
00:13:11
Speaker
that will follow up with a bit of information that we think is relevant to that person. If a customer buys for the first time, then they enter a different flow with different information for them. So that was really putting a lot of attention around our email ecosystem was a big priority. And then we're also subscription service. So we had to do a lot of investigation around what's the best platform for subscription. So we We implemented that on our site which definitely allowed for like the social proof and the the sharing of stories of our customers. which That was another tactic I would say that we used. Focusing on that subscription experience especially has been another important part of our retention marketing strategy.
00:13:59
Speaker
yeah and I think it's also ah a great way to stabilize your business as a whole because you have something that you can build upon. You don't need to reach out to your customers again and again and say, hey, do you want to buy something new? But it's been taken care of and people just subscribe to that.
Social Media Strategy
00:14:16
Speaker
And what I also love about what you're saying is the high emphasis on email and newsletters.
00:14:22
Speaker
So when I was head of marketing at Too Good to Go, we also had all those email lists and flows for our customers. And now I also write a newsletter as a marketing strategist. And I think what the great thing about emails and newsletters is, is that one, there is no forced interaction. It's not like an ad because people choose they want to sign up. Second, they can choose when they want to read it.
00:14:51
Speaker
So with an Instagram ad, for example, it disappears if you don't click on it. But with a newsletter, if it is in your inbox, it stays there. And the third thing is that you are not dependent on an algorithm, what you are on every social media platform. I have now, I just checked it. I have over 5,000 contacts in LinkedIn.
00:15:12
Speaker
But for every posting that I send out, I only reach maximum half of them because the algorithm doesn't consider it worthwhile for the rest. With email, everyone gets it. Whether they read it or not is their decision. And I think that's the big benefit of email and newsletters. You own the conversation and it feels much more independent than being on the social media platforms, which of course you also need.
00:15:40
Speaker
and And that's something that I would also like to talk with you about is you are with Kiki Milk on Instagram and I think also on on TikTok. Why are you there first and what are you trying to accomplish with those channels?
00:15:55
Speaker
Good questions. I first love the way that you described email. Personally, it has always been my favorite marketing platform. And I think the way that you did that is spot on. I agree completely. It's so refreshing to see when your customers are opening it and engaging with it. And often something that we see is, so there's a difference between product marketing and content marketing.
00:16:22
Speaker
or brand marketing and we have plenty of times in the past sent emails with the entire basis of the email being to spotlight a specific product or you know to communicate a sale. So really intended for sales, but what we do much more of is content marketing and education marketing, where we're just sharing information on a specific topic related to nutrition. But what is interesting is that on an email like that, we'll still see a ton of sales. And I think it's because there's a trust built in of people being reminded that, okay, this company cares about my health, ultimately. yes So yeah, just to say that email is a good channel.
00:17:08
Speaker
And to your question about social media, we are on LinkedIn and Instagram predominantly, we're moving into TikTok as well. Our intention on Instagram is really to create content that feels fun and lively and is also education driven, but can sort of depict the, you know, the energy and the playfulness behind our brands because we, we want to make learning about this topic fun and we want to connect sort of the the love of nature and the, you know, the spirit of when you were a kid and you ran around amongst the trees and in the grass and that is where our food comes from. Sort of that reminder.
00:17:53
Speaker
um So we did do a lot of depicting whole food in nature, as well as sharing customer stories or our founder story. So it's a great platform for that. And TikTok, we lean into a little bit more to have these larger conversations about about the food system. And LinkedIn, I would say, is a little bit more in that vertical as well of kind of speaking to the the system that we're operating in.
00:18:22
Speaker
Yeah, I get it. And I think marketing at the core is always about addressing unmet needs. And you outlined that when you spoke about your founder's story where you said, okay, they they had an a direct direct need. they They wanted something good for their kid.
00:18:37
Speaker
What role does the addressing of this unmet need take in your marketing on those social channels also and all your other
Marketing Complexities and Pricing
00:18:46
Speaker
channels? Do you put it in the forefront and say, hey, this is the problem that a lot of people face, we have a solution, or is it more focused on the educational part and the entertaining part?
00:18:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good question too. I would say we do a mix of both. Food is is tricky and can be controversial as well. We're trying to tackle some, there's ah there's a big picture to the reason, you know, the way things are and we want to be careful not to point blame or to or especially to shame. well You know, a lot of the a lot of the choices around what we eat comes down to what people can afford. So that's a huge consideration. you know The way people eat is also a product of how they're raised or where they they're from or what cultural traditions that they have. And then the and then you also have to consider that the plant-based movement in itself is can be controversial as well.
00:19:47
Speaker
Because it can be, you know, what people have, people can associate plant-based with vegan or plant-based with vegetarian. And those again are sort of these, you know, they could be something more simple and relaxed, like a lifestyle choice, or they can be as large as a belief system.
00:20:08
Speaker
And I think what we're trying to approach this topic as neutrally as possible because the main idea that we're trying to get across is that not anti-dairy we're not anti anti animal product. We're essentially trying to communicate our thinking around there is a ton of nutrient rich food available to us and there's not a reason that so much of our food should kind of be replacing that whole food with these additives that are not helpful, that are that are empty calories and also, you know, harmful and in in some ways.
00:20:51
Speaker
Yeah, you you touched upon one, I think, very important topic, which is price. Now, moving a little bit into sustainability as a topic, we see these statistics over and over that consumers say they are willing to pay more for products that are sustainable. So the most recent one that I found is 68% of consumers claim they are willing to pay more. How big of a factor is price for your products?
00:21:17
Speaker
Price is a huge factor. our We have an expensive product and it's something that we really want to make as accessible as possible. What we're trying to do is really accelerate positive health outcomes in the US through a product and through a company that will only create you know products that are free of additives and full of nutrient rich foods. But the the the result of that is we use a lot of great ingredients. They're all organic.
00:21:46
Speaker
And they all get, our finished products get tested for glyphosate residue. Glyphosate is the world's most common, commonly used herbicide. It's also commercially known as Roundup. And for context, the US makes up 4% of the world's population, but uses 20% of the world's wall glyphosate supply annually.
00:22:11
Speaker
And exposures has been linked to cancer, to liver and kidney failure, and to developmental and reproductive issues. So we, in addition to sourcing really great ingredients and mostly from farms that are using either sustainable or regenerative practices, and then on top of that, and or organic, and then on top of that, on the back end testing to make sure they're they are still free from glyphosate, all of that adds up for us. And you know it shows up in the price of the product for the customer as well.
00:22:45
Speaker
Yeah, I can imagine. Is price then something you don't communicate? Like, except for when people buy, of course. Yeah. I mean, so it's, I guess it's a balance, right? Of what people are willing to pay for and then what people can pay for.
00:23:00
Speaker
And I think a philosophy all that all of us hold at the company is it's better to pay now than pay later when it comes to your health. At the same time, many people only have what they have right now and they actually can't afford to. Probably the people who need it most can't afford to buy our product and that's that's such a ah larger issue as well, maybe globally, definitely in the US, of the food that is best for us is out of reach for so many people. um Price is something that we care about and are considering.
00:23:37
Speaker
and you know What we try to do, at least in our marketing, is convey why it costs, what it costs. Because if people can wrap their heads around what they're the value that they're getting, yeah rather than assuming, oh, this is just a cart enough milk, which it's not.
00:23:55
Speaker
yeah then they can maybe rationalize you know how they make sense of how they're spending their money. yeah A lot of the research shows that we've that many people can afford to spend more on their food and their health, but we've shifted a lot of our spending into other consumables that may maybe are considered more luxury. So it is it does also come down to the question of what do you value personally and what are you willing to pay for.
00:24:24
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. I agree. I think a lot of people want to act more sustainably, but once they are then in the supermarket or once they make a buying decision and they have the choice to do something cheaper, they are oftentimes going for it. I also think that sustainability as a whole has a big marketing problem because oftentimes when it's about sustainability, we communicate doomsday scenarios, be it planetary or societal or even like nutritional as we're talking about right now. And this can help to convince some people, but I think in the end, it's important to create excitement for sustainable solutions.
00:25:08
Speaker
I just wrote a couple of weeks ago a thought piece on the three basic emotions used in marketing. So according to scientists, it's security, excitement, and autonomy. So compare it with a simple example. Joe Biden was all about security. I will maintain the status as it is. I will save democracy.
00:25:29
Speaker
Then you have Donald Trump, who's ah a lot about autonomy, like, I'm the strong guy. I stand for freedom. Do whatever you want. And then you now have Kamala Harris and her campaign is a lot about excitement, and about getting people excited, bringing back joy. And you see also in the shift of conversation, there is so much excitement right now around her just because she's talking about positive aspects, about a future that everybody would want to live in.
00:25:58
Speaker
And I don't want to go deep into the politics there. But just from a communicative side, I think there is a lot we can learn for sustainability there that we need to create excitement, not just for solar panels and electric cars, but for changing our lives for the better. So the challenge is really, how can we create that excitement for an optimistic future so that people, when they then have to make a buying decision, it's not just price that is a factor.
00:26:28
Speaker
or health, which is also something very rational, but something deeply emotional where I say, Hey, I love this brand. I love this movement. And I love to do something good for my body or for the body of my kids. Yes, exactly.
The Role of Storytelling in Marketing
00:26:42
Speaker
I agree with that completely and in that you need to have fun. Yes. What you're talking about. And I like, we use the word a lot. I like the word enthusiasm, ni marketing.
00:26:54
Speaker
I think marketing is really supposed to be clear communication, but imbued with enthusiasm, like a spirit behind it of why you care and why someone else should care. I love that. Kiki, before we go into the last three questions, do you have any questions from me? I do, Florian.
00:27:14
Speaker
So I think following your heart, I would say, is a deeply rewarding path, but not easy. And my question for you is, what is a moment you've had recently that reminded you or affirmed from for you why you're on this path of entrepreneurship, advocating for sustainable marketing?
00:27:39
Speaker
Okay, wow. So I started my business two and a half years ago now and there were times when I thought maybe this is not working. And were you doubting yourself? Sometimes it's the end of the month you have to do all your accounting. I don't like working with numbers. And the times where I question whether I want to continue this journey are getting less and less because one thing that I really where I feel a deep sense of
00:28:13
Speaker
gratification is working with my clients. And I'm very fortunate to work with some very interesting corporates and startups. They either are working on sustainable product services or they are a sustainable company and working with them and helping them to get some of the obstacles out of the way to refine their message. And then when I just had a session last week with the client, had our monthly review on what went well.
00:28:40
Speaker
And I think for like 15 minutes, he was just telling me about all the things that are going really well right now. And it gave me so much joy to see I was a little part of that. I helped him just a little bit with some notches in the right way to get there. And this is when I feel like really satisfied with the work that I'm doing. And for sustainability,
00:29:04
Speaker
When I work with the corporates, they usually hire me because they say, we want to do something. We want you to help us to do it right and to not fall into the trap of greenwashing. So I say, okay, let's start the process. First, we have to do something and then we can communicate about it. And then seeing the impact that these projects of the corporates have This is just amazing. I have just been working on a project with the city of Vienna here. It has a population of about 2 million and the project is to make Vienna more sustainable. It will have a direct impact on people's lives and it will not just make the city more sustainable, but it will make people go happier.
00:29:45
Speaker
If they live in a greener city, in a city that is more resilient, in a city where everybody can strive. So having a sense of the impact that I actually can create also for a planet.
00:29:58
Speaker
It might be small, but I can see it and I can see the relation of me standing up every day and doing the work and moving everything like one millimeter, one tiny inch in the right direction. That's what really gives me joy. That's amazing. Thanks for sharing that. That's such an inspiring and hopeful message.
00:30:20
Speaker
Thank you. Yeah. I think coming also back to excitement, we far too often talk about doomsday in scenarios. And yes, I think that was one of the biggest mistakes of climate communication so far of scientists telling us the data because the data is right, but the data doesn't convince any person to act, its stories, its emotions. And I think that's what also the role of marketing has to be, to be a bridge and to take all that data and put it in a sexy way so that people actually like to read about climate and to read about sustainability.
Vision for Conscious Marketing
00:31:04
Speaker
And it's such ah such a more effective way of getting through to people and and completely agree storytelling is the best marketing.
00:31:12
Speaker
Yes, very much so. So to sum this up, let's move to the final three questions. First is, what is good marketing to you in three words? I think good marketing is clear communication imbued with enthusiasm as the third word. So what that means to me is it's information that you have.
00:31:39
Speaker
shared with the customer in a way that could be understood easily and with a certain spirit behind it of why you care and why they should care. Nice. I like that. What do you think? Nobody ever asks me back. I'm always comfortable sitting here. so I think marketing has to be understanding. You have to understand who your customer is and what problems they have in their life. You have to Be authentic, especially nowadays. People find out you you don't really mean what you're saying. You're not real. And this is the best recipe to to get a lot of unfollows. So you have to be authentic to to really share what you're all about, to bring your full self into work.
00:32:28
Speaker
And the third, I think marketing has to be objective driven. In the end, marketing always has the same job. Marketing is great at getting people to change their behavior. And that can be to vote, that can be to buy a product, that can be to be more sustainable. And I think at the very beginning of every marketing action, we need to go back and say, why are we actually doing this?
00:32:53
Speaker
thinking really hard about, okay, what do we really want to achieve? What's one thing that we want to achieve with this? I think that's that is a step that is far too less taken. That's good. Those are great. What's the future of marketing? I think the future of marketing is more conscious. You know, people like you and I, everyone that's been on this podcast, really thinking twice.
00:33:17
Speaker
about marketing and sort of questioning the practices, calling out practices that are manipulative or not in people's best interest or are motivated by sort of that scarcity mindset.
00:33:35
Speaker
that a lot of marketing has been motivated by over the last many, many years that we were influenced by growing up. And I think, for example, I am part of a group called the Conscious Marketing Movement, and it's a global online community. And it was founded on the principles of Carolyn Tate's book of the same name, Conscious Marketing.
00:33:59
Speaker
And the definition that she poses for conscious marketing is building something so fundamentally good and compelling into the heart of your business products and services that people want to join your business community simply to spread the word.
00:34:17
Speaker
And I think that really speaks to also beyond marketing, like going back one step further even to the genesis of a company or product, observe something that's actually missing in the market and find a solution that you can offer rather than a lot of companies started because there was a lot of opportunity to just create things and sell things and get rich.
00:34:41
Speaker
And now there is such an excess of things that it's kind of like we're taking a step back and thinking, OK, but what do we actually need? What do people actually need? And then the job of the marketer becomes a lot more straightforward in that you're not trying to sell something or convince some someone of needing something that they actually don't. But you're observing sharing an observation of a challenge or struggle and offering possible solution.
00:35:11
Speaker
that people can get on board with or not. And if they do, then then you have a movement and a business, a growing business.
Sustainable Marketing and SDGs
00:35:19
Speaker
I think the first part of your answer speaks to the excitement that we need to create. And the second part is marketing has been kind of the growth engine for maximizing profits in the last decades. And I think now we have the chance to make marketing the force for good.
00:35:37
Speaker
Exactly, exactly. It's recognized it's recognizing the responsibility really as a marketer that you have and the influence that you can have. Yes. Final question, Kiki. What book have you recently read that you would like to recommend here? Ooh, that's a good one. One of the books that I've reread recently is The Four Agreements. It's by Don Miguel Ruiz. I might be pronouncing that wrong. R-U-I-Z. And The Four Agreements are, be impeccable with your word. Don't take things personally. Always do your best. And there's one more that I'll leave
00:36:17
Speaker
you and anyone listening to figure out by reading it because I can't remember off the top of my head. But it's really it's it's a spiritual book, really. It's meant to connect you to yourself and offer a guiding compass for um you know moving through the world. But I think a lot of the principles apply to marketing and communication.
00:36:39
Speaker
I like that very much. It really sounds like a book that is great for taking with you on a vacation to rethink and refocus. Thanks for sharing. Do we have time for one more question for you? Sure. Yes. Okay. Do you think that there is a reason for or.
00:36:57
Speaker
ah even just the possibility that there might be a sustainable development goal around communication and marketing. I think marketing should be probably a part of a lot of the SDGs. Like for example, there is responsible consumption and production. There should be some framework for marketing here, same for good health and wellbeing or industry innovation infrastructure.
00:37:22
Speaker
For media, SDGs are a great framework. I think now the responsibility lies for governments and for companies to act on these. I don't know if you've heard, but in the EU, there is the Green Claims Directive, for example, that will regulate how companies are allowed to talk about green agendas and sustainability. There will be the European Sustainable Reporting Standards.
00:37:47
Speaker
that also regulate how most companies are obliged to report on their sustainable impact. So they will have to report on an environmental, social and governance impact combined with their financial impact. The SDGs are the framework, but now we need action. And the only way we can get action is if there are rules by governments and if companies uphold those rules.
00:38:14
Speaker
We all know we need action right now. So we need the legislative support to do that. And we need the companies to just pick up the baton and say, yes, okay, I will run with this. Fair. Thanks for sharing that insight. I think that's a really helpful perspective. Thanks, Florian. Kiki, I think there are so many more topics that we could talk about. I really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
00:38:43
Speaker
Thank you, Florian. This has been great talking with you and I would love to talk again. Yes, we will absolutely plan that. Thank you. but And that's it for today. Thank you so much for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, please forward it to a friend or a colleague. This would mean the world to me as I pour my heart and a lot of energy into producing this podcast with all the brilliant minds that share their perspective here.
00:39:08
Speaker
And if you are curious to use the huge potential of sustainability marketing for your own brand and you know the value that a great marketing strategy brings to really connect with your target audience, give me a call or send me a message. I'd love to get to know you and your projects. You can find me on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok or through my newsletter, where I write in-depth thought pieces that help you build a successful and exciting marketing strategy.
00:39:36
Speaker
Again, thank you so much for listening. I really look forward to sharing more with you in the future.