Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
✳️ The Sustainability Future Trap - Marcel Aberle, trend & future researcher
34 Plays10 days ago
Marcel Aberle is a trend and future researcher. His job is to inspire people and organizations for their future and support them in implementing new ideas and strategies. He spots the megatrends that are next – and explains it in ways that stick.
About the FutureStrategies podcast and Florian:
Hi, my name is Florian Schleicher I’m a marketing strategist. I work with brands ready to take their next bold step and truly connect with their audience. I help them uncover insights that matter, design workshops that spark real change, and turn strategy into clear, actionable blueprints. In 2022 I started my own Marketing Studio FUTURESTRATEGIES.
Also: If you enjoy reading, be sure to check out my FutureStrategies newsletter. It’s perfect for marketing leaders and those who aspire to be: Inspiration on marketing, strategies and sustainability.
And if you have a challenge that keeps you and your company from doing your best work and this challenge is about marketing, strategies or sustainability, then I’d love to get to know you and your projects!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Hosts
00:00:00
Speaker
You need something that pulls us out of this confusion. We need some kind of a picture of the future which pulls us into the future, which pulls us out of this depression and how it feels like at the moment. You need really leaders and visionary people.
00:00:15
Speaker
Welcome to the Future Strategies Podcast. My name is Florian Schleicher. I'm a marketing strategist focused on sustainability and I'm your host here. You can listen to my interviews with international experts and together we will explore where marketing strategies and sustainability intersect with great examples, insightful stories and a look behind the scenes of some amazing brands.
00:00:39
Speaker
If you're curious how to apply all of that for your own business, I do this for my clients from all around the world. But more on that at the end of this episode. Now let's jump into today's interview.
00:00:53
Speaker
Today I'm joined by Marcel Abbele. He's a trend and future researcher. His job is to inspire people and organizations for their future and support them in implementing new ideas and strategies.
00:01:07
Speaker
He spots the megatrends that are next and explains it in ways that stick. We met a couple of months ago at an event where Marcel spoke and I instantly thought this is great stuff and I want to share it with my listeners here.
00:01:20
Speaker
So without further ado, welcome to the show, Marcel. Hi, Florian. Thanks for having me. It's my pleasure. I want to start off with a thing that has been bugging me quite a while.
The Sustainability Action Gap
00:01:32
Speaker
You are a trend and future researcher, so you see probably a lot of stuff on different topics. But today I want to focus on the topic of sustainability per se and communications around it.
00:01:43
Speaker
Mm-hmm. More specifically, the problem of sustainability. What do I mean by saying the problem of sustainability? Whenever I talk to CEOs, marketing leaders, government officials, and even consumers, everybody says the same.
00:01:57
Speaker
Sustainability is very important. It's an issue very dear to my heart. And yes, we need to do a lot about this. But then when we look at the actions, we look at, we are recording this in summer of 2025, the 1.5 degree limit, we probably already crossed.
00:02:13
Speaker
So we see that there is not so much happening. It's this often discussed value action gap. So my question would be, is sustainability simply not trendy enough?
00:02:24
Speaker
I think it's it's super trendy, but it's also super difficult. And it was really interesting, your explanation, because I have the same pain with innovation. It's the same thing. Also, everybody's talking about innovation, but when you then look at the actions, it's it's quite difficult.
00:02:41
Speaker
But sustainability is, of course, a big thing. In my point of view, is it's the biggest transformation we are facing at the
Eco-Transition and Megatrends Explained
00:02:50
Speaker
moment. So from trend research perspective, there Out of the mega trends, there are six big transformations and one of them called eco transition.
00:03:02
Speaker
Trends and also these transformations are also always developing by trend and counter trend. Right. And on the one hand, you have the industrialization. And on the other hand, the counter trend is the whole climate protection back to nature stuff. yes So you have always trend and counter trend.
00:03:23
Speaker
And then you have this kind of transformation recursive loop, so like kind a kind of a synthesis. The future project, which I'm also part of the expert team, called this transformation eco-transition.
00:03:35
Speaker
and So at the end, it's how can we be productive? How can we make profits? How can we have a good life without destroying our planet?
00:03:45
Speaker
That's the biggest challenge we are facing. And yeah, you so of course, you see a lot of companies struggling with that. Because they're really in the middle of the transformation, you know, and that's, that's, yeah, that's really difficult. It's really difficult. And when you look at all the, there's so many studies outside that show, if you take the whole sustainability stuff serious, if you really say, okay, we do this, if you take it serious, it's really a good thing, not just for the nature, but also for you as a company.
00:04:19
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But if you take it so like, yeah, we should do something or we have to do something, then it's really a trap because it costs you a lot of money. And at the end, it brings nothing back to you really as a company and also not to the nature. I think that's ah had a big struggle for a lot of companies.
00:04:39
Speaker
But you see a lot of companies that are really facing this problem. Many years ago, they start ah facing this problem. And now they are really on the wave. They saw this years and years and they for them, it was part of their identity.
00:04:56
Speaker
I think that's very important. It was part of their identity and now they are really the front runners. So it's very interesting also for me too as a trend researcher to yeah to to watch this. Who is doing what? What is very successful?
00:05:14
Speaker
Where is just screen washing and so on? it's it's It's a really interesting time. You now mentioned that you say this mega trend is kind of one of the biggest transformations that we have seen.
00:05:27
Speaker
Yes. I would be curious, what is the differentiation between trend and a mega trend? Because everybody's always talking about trends. This a new trend here, a new trend there. yeah How do you differentiate those?
00:05:40
Speaker
Yeah, that's very interesting question. A problem is a little bit there is no standard definition. you know it's um There are different kinds of definitions, but there's not one standard. So that is also a little bit of pain for me and also my colleagues, which when I talk to associations,
00:06:00
Speaker
They always say, yeah, we want to do this and that. And I say, please find a standard for what is the trend, what is, and so on. You would really help us. Yeah. So officially there is no standard. I like to use the standard from the Zukunfts Institute for the Future Institute,
00:06:17
Speaker
where i worked for several years and I managed as a general manager. And their definition is to come from a trend to a mega trend, you have to come a certain way. So in one hand, this trend has to be a global reach. You have to see a global reach.
00:06:32
Speaker
From this trend. So not just a local impact. yeah It has to have a really a global impact. So it has to influence politics, society and economy.
00:06:43
Speaker
And this trend has to have at least a predicted life cycle of at least 10 years. And these are criterias. If you fulfill that, they promote a trend to a mega trend.
00:06:57
Speaker
In the foresight community, when you look at the media, there's every month a new mega trend. yeah Because when you look at the current mega trends, the last 20 years, there are not a lot of changes, you know, and that's always a little bit disappointing for the media.
00:07:15
Speaker
Yeah. It's like, yeah, at every month we need a newborn, Marcel. So no, sorry. that It's of course due to the crisis like COVID there, ah some mega trends got pushed, some mega trends got pushed back, but not really big, big changes. And eco-transition is like that the future project looked at the mega trends and analyzed which transformations are coming out of the mega trends.
00:07:42
Speaker
Because at the moment we are in many transformations and I think we should more look at these transformations and less on the mega trends because this is the make or break at the moment.
00:07:55
Speaker
these transformations we are in, these struggles, we are fighting these trends and counter trends. We are fighting where we have to find a good balance. Yes.
00:08:06
Speaker
And so I really like to, at the moment, really focus on these transformations that are coming out of the mega trends. That's the tough part. That's the make or break. Get it. so Coming back to sustainability now and this eco-transition, last year in July, you gave an interview where you emphasized that many sustainability efforts in businesses just remain bureaucratic exercises.
00:08:31
Speaker
And you mentioned that Without long-term and visionary thinking, companies miss hidden risks and chances linked to sustainability. Now, how can companies actually do that step and move away from a quarter capitalism mindset to a more long-term transition where they say, okay, we're actually moving into that decarbonization that we all know that we need.
Visionary Leadership for a Sustainable Future
00:08:57
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:08:58
Speaker
And not just this short term, and there are some nice activities. so that's And that's a super question because I think that's the biggest problem, not just in in the economy, also in the in politics, what we have, that we are really lacking good pictures of the future, of good visions.
00:09:15
Speaker
of good north stars however you want to call it that we really have a ah picture of the future which pulls us into the future you know that we think okay where i mean we have these transformations we have these troubles and we have these pressures in our daily business but we just can get out of this spiral If we talk and think about the future, how it should look like, where we want to go.
00:09:41
Speaker
That's very important for us, for our mental health, that we have a kind of a compelling future. You know, if we are struggling all the day, all the time, and it feels like every everything is getting worse and worse,
00:09:54
Speaker
We are not coming out of this this negative loop, what we're seeing at the moment in in in the world, especially in Europe. So we really need more visionary people, really leaders.
00:10:05
Speaker
They say, hey, look, we know we have these troubles. We know it's not easy, but... That's the way we want to go. This is how it should look like. In this direction, we want to go. And then we have to go together and we have to be, of course, on the way, we have to be agile. We have try things and, okay, this is not working. We can do it that way.
00:10:27
Speaker
But we need some kind of ah of a picture of the future which pulls us into the future, which pulls us out of this depression and how it feels like at the moment that everything is getting worse everything is going down.
00:10:42
Speaker
yeah Yeah. And I really liked what you said about we need leaders. And for me, the differentiation would be lot of people and also people at the top are managers. Yeah.
00:10:53
Speaker
But they are not per se leaders. A leader has to push something. And whenever I create a marketing strategy, it always consists of where we are, where we want to go to, and then how we bridge that gap.
00:11:05
Speaker
And people are good at analyzing where we are, but not so good at really defining this ambitious vision, something that is emotional, that is tangible and easy to understand.
00:11:16
Speaker
Because oftentimes when it comes to climate and sustainability, we say, We need to limit temperature increase. We need to limit our emissions. We need to reduce our consumption.
00:11:27
Speaker
This is not a vision. Like nobody says, oh, wow, I feel so drawn to that. Yes, exactly. That's not a vision. It's pulling me into the future. That's why I'm getting up every morning. Yeah, exactly. No, it's not.
00:11:38
Speaker
I haven't seen anything either from a political or party because also looking at the green parties worldwide, there are no visions. It's just, okay, let's plant more trees.
00:11:48
Speaker
Let's get rid of cars in the city center. yeah But where are the visions? Have you seen in your work, in your research, any kinds of signs of these visions that could work or that have drawn you in?
00:12:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's it's that's what I always said at the at the beginning, that it's really sad that I don't really see it. Of course, you have these this these good scenarios and and and pictures of the future from some kinds of and NGOs and so on, but they are really...
00:12:24
Speaker
not not tangible for me enough you know that's so far away and you really need this from people they really have the the leverage and uh yeah the politicians the economic leaders you need some this in this positions you need such kind of people and as As you said, at the moment we don't have it, we have typical managers. And if you understand this life cycle of systems, this is also very clear for me why we have managers. Because in the in the last decades, we all had this growth phase, you know, we were in the growth phase. And when you are in this growth phase, yeah, you need managers. Yeah.
00:13:10
Speaker
You need people, they make things more efficient. You need to scale things and so on. Therefore, you need typical managers when you're in the growth phase and in the status quo phase, how it's called. So you need managers for that.
00:13:24
Speaker
But now we are in this confusion phase. And in the confusion phase, you need really leaders and visionary people because that they say, okay, I accept this. that the current business model or the current economy, whatever, is not working anymore.
00:13:40
Speaker
That's the really first important step to accept it. And then, okay, and let's figure out where we're going and develop an idea and a picture of the future, ah how it looks like. And so this is... um This is a little bit the dilemma because we we still have we are in a different phase, but we still have the managers and they don't want to go.
00:14:01
Speaker
They don't want to leave their good paid jobs. Yeah. And that's also the politicians. It's the same. And that's a little bit the mess what we're seeing at the moment. And and I think a good...
00:14:12
Speaker
visualization of this is Steve Jobs, he was a leader and a visionary. And then Tim Cook, he's a great manager. Exactly. Yeah. And I think also the problem of why Apple is in the pickle that they are in right now is because they've been managed now for 10 years or so.
00:14:29
Speaker
But they've not been leaders. There is nothing new coming out. Yes. And therefore, for me, it's always super important to understand this dynamic so that you always have to understand in which phase you are. Are you in the innovation phase?
00:14:45
Speaker
Can you develop something new? Are you in the growth phase where it's about scale stuff and so on? are you in the status quo phase where it's all about efficiency? Yeah. or you are in the in this confusion phase where it's about, okay, I have letting go and i have to go to innovate, right?
00:15:01
Speaker
And so it's very important to understand in which phase you are because then you know what's now important, but you also know, okay, what is what is the next phase and what is then important? And in my point of view, what a lot of companies missed in Europe is when they were middle in this growth phase that they already thought thought about this confusion phase yeah that they already thought about, okay, but what is the next system level change of my industry or of my product category?
00:15:33
Speaker
Because now they are in this confusion phase and they have no idea. Yeah. This is super, this is super difficult. This is, um, because then people and companies tend to not to go forward They go into protection.
00:15:50
Speaker
And that's the worst thing you can do. And we see that at the moment also, like Europe is turning again back to a wartime economy. We're investing shit tons of money into rearmament, into industrialization, as you as you mentioned.
00:16:05
Speaker
And I was also thinking while preparing this, okay, so maybe the problem is that we don't know what kind of thinking is required in order to have this very futuristic approach.
00:16:21
Speaker
But then i read something also from you and you coined this term. I don't know if you coined it or if you just refer to it, cathedral thinking. who And I thought that's a concept that has already been been in our human history yeah and that might be a way of how to pull us out of the current situation.
00:16:42
Speaker
yes Can you, for everyone who who doesn't know the term, just introduce it and how it might translate into our current situation? yeah so ah in German, it comes from that age where we started to build big churches, big cathedrals, right? And what was very interesting that these visionary people, they start to to design this cathedral, to start to build this cathedral.
00:17:14
Speaker
already know or already knew that they will never see the final cathedral that they will never see the final product and that's that's what the term comes from cathedral thinking to really think about okay where again where should we go how should it look like even if i will not
New Generations Leading Change
00:17:35
Speaker
see the final product even if i will not find this final destination this destination And I think that's a really, ah really nice ah thing. And that's what I'm also missing at the moment. It's all about this this quarterly boomerang, you know. that and I always say in my talks, the quarterly boomerang is the worst enemy for the future.
00:17:57
Speaker
It's the worst enemy because this holds us in this in this now. Amy Webber, American futurist said once, now is a virus spreading faster than COVID.
00:18:09
Speaker
And now i assume it's always that we think about the now and okay, we have reached the next quarter, KPIs, we have to launch the next product and so on, but they do not think about the future.
00:18:21
Speaker
catch-the-seal thinking is even going further, like for future generations and not even my ah for me or my generation. And um yeah, I think that's that's what's very important.
00:18:33
Speaker
You need something that pulls us out of this confusion that we really find a compelling picture that's super important. And yeah, I don't know. It still feels like we're trying to yeah had to keep the current systems in life because we don't want to lose it. We know how they work.
00:18:57
Speaker
and we know how they work and change is difficult. The thing is, we are in this epical change. So in this epochenwandel from the industry age into this digital age.
00:19:09
Speaker
And yeah, based on that, we have we all the transformations, which I mentioned before, and it's difficult. it's it's It was also very difficult for the generations before. They also struggled a lot and we have to face it and we have to think about it. What should we do to get out of this?
00:19:24
Speaker
Whose responsibility is that? Is it governments? Is it companies? Is it individuals? I think at the end, it's all of us. I mean, there's always this saying, right? So be the change you want to see in the world.
00:19:39
Speaker
I totally agree with that. it's It's for all of us. We have to work on that. We have to sensibilize the people We have to talk about it and so on and so on. That's what me is driving really at the moment.
00:19:56
Speaker
But of course, as I mentioned before, we need this this kind type of people and leaders really on positions with power and leverage.
00:20:08
Speaker
Because, of course, you can do a lot. You can also do a lot as a community or as a protest organization, like as we saw with Fridays for Future. But at the end, you you need the right people at this big leverage power positions because they can change a lot. and The thing is what also when we look a little bit in the history, it's like the big changes really happened then when there comes a totally new generation and took over is this this big leverage power positions.
00:20:42
Speaker
Before it was a lot of moderating and things like that. Yeah. And a little bit here and a little bit there. But really, it was really then when we when yeah when there was a new generation at this positions.
00:20:55
Speaker
Now, coming back almost full circle, how can trend research help us on that journey?
The Strategic Method of Backcasting
00:21:03
Speaker
I'm not so sure if trend research has the big leverage on on that.
00:21:08
Speaker
When it comes to futuristic methods, I think what really can help us is to, it's called backcasting.
00:21:19
Speaker
I mean, you have like forecasting, right? So you look at the current trends and you think about the opportunities and possibilities, but you can also you think about how should something look like a product, ah industry, a society, whatever. And then you think about, okay, what do I have to do that I reach this goal in the future? It's called backcasting.
00:21:39
Speaker
This is how we manage every day. We do backcasting, especially when we go to holiday. It's also backcasting. We have a certain goal. We want to be in, I don't know, Bali at this time.
00:21:50
Speaker
And then we think about backwards how we get there. But it's very interesting when it comes to strategy and innovation or also marketing then that we don't do this. We don't start at the end.
00:22:02
Speaker
And I think this backcasting method is a really good method to help people, organizations, NGOs, but also politicians to get an access again to the future and really think about, okay, and then how we get there.
00:22:20
Speaker
And a very easy step in it is called an article from the future. It's like that you sit down and say, okay, for my company, for myself, for my association, for my country, whatever, I write an article from a newspaper.
00:22:38
Speaker
And in 10 years, I think, okay, when I get up in the morning in 10 years, which article I want to read. And then i I write this article. I write the headlines. i I write all the obstacles that I pass. i I write the quotes, everything I want to read. I write this article, which I want to read in 10 years.
00:22:59
Speaker
And this is a starting point. This is kind of your North Star, your picture of the future, this article. And then you think about, okay, How do I get there? Which backwards, how which obstacles will I face? Which decisions I have to make?
00:23:14
Speaker
I'm smiling right now because I'm using something similar. i just have a different name for it. The first approach that you mentioned, I've read about it being called the future back approach.
00:23:26
Speaker
Whereas what most of the time happens is the present forward approach. and And for the article from the future, I've actually seen that coming from Amazon and they call it the future press release.
00:23:40
Speaker
It's okay. This is the future that we want to create. And now let's backtrack it and let's try to arrive there in a couple of years then. Yes. And in my point of view, in the best case, you do both. You really look at the current trends and think about the opportunities, but you also do this sort of kind of forecasting, but you also do this, this, this backcasting and think about, okay, where we, where should we go and how should it look like you write this article on do the backcast. And that's also helps you to bring the present and the future together.
00:24:16
Speaker
And then you have a really ah proper ah proper plan. Yes. From today to the future. And you can see as further you go into the future, as more uncertainty you have.
00:24:27
Speaker
And that's okay. And that's what we have to handle with. It's not like, We cannot think that managers, they have a 10 years plan and this is a fixed plan. No, if you think about the future, of course, you have more more uncertainties and that's okay. And we have to accept this and and we have to work with this. I think that's very important. And also, I think coming back to the problem, managers don't like uncertainties.
00:24:53
Speaker
Yeah, we all don't like it. There are really nice research about it that we prefer something that is not really what we like, but it's certain over something that would be much better, but it's uncertain.
00:25:06
Speaker
Yeah, and that's again, coming back to the problem of sustainability, we tend to like the solutions that we know that work. which is industrialization, just running things as they are more than, how could this change then our whole way of living if we change something that's uncertain?
00:25:25
Speaker
Yes, exactly. Before we wrap this all up, do you have any questions for me? or have Questions for you? I don't know. what What would you recommend as a communication and marketing specialist to me as a futurist and trend researcher?
The Resurgence of In-Person Connections
00:25:41
Speaker
So two things are at the top of my head in in the last couple of weeks. One is, I think in parts we have outsourced a lot of things that usually we we've dealt with in human connection.
00:25:57
Speaker
to our digital devices. We're currently outsourcing parts of our brain to AI tools. And I think trend and counter trend, as you mentioned, there will be counter trend where it's again coming back to in-face meetings, non-digital things.
00:26:15
Speaker
And feeling things again, coming back in touch with nature, coming back in touch with real people, with real situations, with uncomfortable things. And I see that more and more people are actually looking into that.
00:26:29
Speaker
And also, like I'm reading a lot about how indigenous people think about nature and how they have maintained their connection with it. So that's one thing that I'm very much interested in at the moment is coming back to real things, real life.
00:26:46
Speaker
And the second thing that I'm thinking about ah lot at the moment is when it comes to positionings, because ah I work a lot with brands on on how to position themselves. And I've often preached this problem solution-based approach. So you identify, okay, what problem does my audience have and and what kind of solutions do I want to offer them?
00:27:06
Speaker
And I'm currently reading a lot about not so much problem that you're solving for your audience, also you as a trend researcher, you're clients but more of what kinds of emotions do I want to evoke in them how should it feel when they meet me as a marketing strategist how should it feel when people meet Marcel as a trend researcher what is the walking emotion that you express in So the first part of of what I'm thinking about is more related to sustainability and coming back in touch with nature. And the second is more about positioning and marketing. And that should really be more about the real emotion that you you convey and not so much just the problem that you're solving because lots of people can solve the problem that companies have. That's a good point.
00:27:58
Speaker
This emotion that they will leave the meeting, the workshop, the speech that you give with, I think that is way more important. Yeah, it's a great input. And I totally agree that the interesting thing is the first thing you mentioned with the digitalization and this more human stuff. It's also one of these six transformation.
00:28:19
Speaker
So we talked about eco-transition and the second one is called human digital. And this is really exactly what you talk about. You have the digitalization. And the counter trend is the whole mindfulness movement and digitalization.
00:28:34
Speaker
Human digital means then how to find a good balance which between the human stuff and the digital stuff. And the emotions, but you said the second thing is i'm I'm also totally agreeing. And that's what I also thought that, hey, this is super important. And I also thought, okay, what can I do to be a better human is the wrong term, but can I...
00:28:56
Speaker
better com communicate and and and and and um and make this more emotional. And for myself, I really, really investing in this emotional stuff, in this human stuff, because for me, it's super clear as more we digitalize, as more people are looking for this resonance, for this human stuff, for the mindfulness stuff. I think you can all already see he this very, very clearly. Totally.
00:29:23
Speaker
Totally. All right. Let's go to the final three questions, which I have adapted a little bit because we talked a lot about sustainability and trends.
Balancing Digital and Human Experiences
00:29:35
Speaker
So number one is, what is your most favorite trend at the moment that you can't wait to see unfold? It's really the human digital transformation, working on...
00:29:48
Speaker
on finding a better balance between the human and the digital stuff. I think this is like super important and is that trend or transformation which interests me really the most at the moment.
00:30:00
Speaker
Which sustainability trend do you think is wildly overrated right now and which one is criminally ignored? yeah It's interesting because I think in general that the term sustainability is quite overrated.
00:30:17
Speaker
Because in my point of view, sustainability is not a final goal. Because if you think sustainable, in many cases, you make bad things more sustainable.
00:30:30
Speaker
Yeah. You know, it's like the car wheel. We we made it more and more sustainable, but now it's so sustainable. But we be generate such micro powder of dust that it's hard to clean it out of our drinking water. So in my term, we should much more talk about circular economy than sustainability.
00:30:51
Speaker
Yeah, good point. I like that. Final question. What is a book that you would like to recommend here? Oh, I have one book which I really love, but I think it's just available in German called Erzählende Affen, Talking Monkeys.
00:31:07
Speaker
he And this book is really mind-blowing book I read because it's about... or the two authors, they're explaining our whole society, our whole economy, all developments around us are really at the end based on narratives.
00:31:28
Speaker
e Our countries, all the wars we are seeing at the moment, everything at the end, when you break it down, There was a narrative at the beginning.
00:31:39
Speaker
For me, it was always clear that storytelling is very important. But when you read that book, you understand that it is everything.
00:31:52
Speaker
You can have the best product. You can have the nicest idea. you have can have You can have the best attention. But if you have the wrong narrative, you won't sell it. And I think that's exactly what we see also in this sustainability stuff, what you mentioned before. So this really, yeah we have to ah reach certain degrees and stuff like that. That's the wrong, that's totally the wrong narrative. You will not catch the people with with that, not the mass of the people.
00:32:24
Speaker
And Erzählen der Affen is really explaining this in a super interesting way. And also with a lot of examples from the history, but also current developments. it was It's amazing.
00:32:37
Speaker
Okay. Go straight to my vacation list then. Yeah, do it. It's great. Thank you so much for the recommendation. You're welcome. Marcel, this has been super inspiring. Thank you so much.
00:32:48
Speaker
I think I could go on and on talking with you. And we should definitely do that again via a cup of coffee in the future. Thank you so much for sharing all your perspectives and insights with us here.
00:33:00
Speaker
We will do it for sure, Florian. Thank you too. See you soon. Bye. And that's it for today. Thank you so much for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, please forward it to a friend or a colleague.
00:33:13
Speaker
This would mean the world to me as I pour my heart and a lot of energy into producing this podcast with all the brilliant minds that share their perspective here. And if you know the value that a great marketing strategy brings to really connect with your target audience, give me a call or send me a message.
00:33:31
Speaker
I'd love to get to know you and your projects. You can find me on LinkedIn, Instagram, or through my newsletter, where I write in-depth thought pieces that help you build a successful and exciting marketing strategy.
00:33:46
Speaker
Again, thank you so much for listening. I really look forward to sharing more with you in the future.