Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
🌲"The 700 year old company" - Sabrina Bartl from Stora Enso about products that are by default sustainable
67 Plays1 month ago
Sabrina Bartl is leading the global external communications at Stora Enso Wood Products, a provider of sustainable wood-based solutions that are driving the transformation of the global construction industry. An international business degree majoring in marketing and a Master’s in public communication, it all seems to have prepared her for the company she’s working at. However, she’s sometimes still surprised that she ended up in the construction business.
About the FutureStrategies podcast and Florian:
Hi, my name is Florian Schleicher I am a marketing strategist focussed on sustainability. Having worked with big corporates, NGOs, start-ups and agencies for over 15 years, I know my way around a lot of challenges. Let me help solve your challenges with my know-how and my Marketing Studio FUTURES.
Also: If you enjoy reading, be sure to check out my FutureStrategies newsletter. I write about marketing, strategies and sustainability available every three weeks and I am sure you will find a lot of exciting and helpful insights there.
And if you have a challenge that keeps you and your company from doing your best work and this challenge is about marketing, strategies or sustainability, then I’d love to get to know you and your projects!
Recommended
Transcript
Sustainability as Core Company Value
00:00:00
Speaker
Our products are by default sustainable and we started to talk about sustainability long before it was a trend. It's not something we put on top of our products or on top of our strategy. It is inherently who we are. This is our DNA and that makes it, I think, the best proof of authenticity you can have.
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome to the Future Strategies podcast. My name is Florian Schleicher. I'm a marketing strategist focused on sustainability, and I'm your host here. Every two weeks, you can listen to my interviews with international experts, and together we will explore where marketing strategies and sustainability intersect with great examples, insightful stories, and a look behind the scenes of some amazing brands.
00:00:46
Speaker
If you are curious how to apply all of that for your own business, I do this for my clients from all around the world through inspiring workshops, guiding mentoring and an exciting on online academy. But more on that at the end of this episode. Now, let's jump into today's
Introducing Sustainable Communications
00:01:02
Speaker
interview.
00:01:02
Speaker
My guest today is Sabrina Bartl. She's leading the global external communications at Storra Enzo Wood Products, a provider of sustainable wood-based solutions that are driving the transformation of the global construction industry. An international business degree majoring in marketing and a master's in public communication, it all seems to have prepared her for the company she's working at.
00:01:28
Speaker
However, she's sometimes still surprised that she ended up in the construction business. Sabrina, it's great to have this conversation with you. Thank you for taking the time. Thank you. It's a pleasure. So in our conversation, I would like to talk a little bit about marketing and communications and also about sustainability. Do you feel ready for it? Yes, I am.
00:01:53
Speaker
Okay, before we start, so I introduced you and the company a little bit at the beginning, but for those who are not familiar with Stora Enso, can you briefly describe what the company is all about that you're working for? Yes. Stora Enso is part of the global bioeconomy and the oldest active company in the world with more than 700 years of existence and what remained since that start is at the core of our business is the tree. And today we are a leading provider of renewable products in packaging, biomaterials and wooden construction, and one of the largest private forest owners in the world. We are supporting our customers in meeting the demand for renewable sustainable products based on low carbon products made from a tree. And we have around 20,000 employees around the world.
00:02:50
Speaker
I am personally working in the wood products division as part of the Stora Enzo group. And we are Europe's largest sawn timber producer, as well as leading provider of sustainable wood-based solutions, as you had mentioned. Thank you very much. When I introduced you, I also mentioned, and this is something that you actually gave me, that you are still surprised that you ended up in the construction business. So what led you to Stora Enzo then?
Transition to Sustainable Construction
00:03:18
Speaker
So i'm I'm still sometimes surprised because when I grew up, I always said that if I won't end up in one industry, it's the construction industry because my dad is working in the construction industry. And I always thought, well, this is this is not something I would like to work for. And a few years have passed and now I'm here working for the construction industry. And I think what has made me change my mind was actually the material of wood.
00:03:48
Speaker
I don't think I would have worked for another material or other parts of the industry. So it was definitely the material of wood and the sustainability behind it. And that I also want to contribute with my work. So I was a bit caught by the bigger picture. The position was in the wood products division and therefore the main industry we are producing for is the construction industry with simple zone or plain wood but also with mass timber such as cross-laminated timber or laminated veneer lumber. So these are materials that are used for high-rise buildings for example. So we have built also the tallest wooden skyscraper in the world that is standing in Norway.
00:04:41
Speaker
Oh, wow. Okay. You asked me while we were having our pre-conversation also how I actually became aware of Stora Enzo. And I told you, this is one of the companies that I look into in my Simple and Sustainable Marketing Academy, teaching people, okay, how can a B2B company also be part of the sustainability transformation? And what I always share is you have integrated sustainability really in your purpose.
00:05:09
Speaker
Looking at your purpose, it says, do good for people and the planet, replace non-renewable materials with renewable products. And I really find it fascinating that this is part of your overall purpose because to me, that seems really and that sustainability is deeply integrated into your overall strategy.
Forestry Management and Sustainability Practices
00:05:31
Speaker
Yes, it is. And I think that comes a bit by default because our products are made from trees and trees are renewable.
00:05:39
Speaker
They are the only material that can be regrown and we make sure that we only focus on sustainable forest management, which means that we only, we always plant more than we harvest. So we make sure that the the forests are healthy as well. So, and for an healthy forest, you, for example, need to harvest trees because over a lifetime of a tree, you know it absorbs CO2, but if it has reached its and end of life, so to say,
00:06:10
Speaker
the tree ah is going to emit the CO2 again. so Really? Yes. And in order to really store this carbon, you need to harvest the tree at some point. And then you can also plant a new tree that is again absorbing trees. And that is why we also say that with our um materials, the carbon is stored over centuries because during that period when a building lasts about 50 to 100 years,
00:06:38
Speaker
And after that, it can even be reused for further possibilities where you can use wood for other construction purposes, for furniture, for packaging, and in the end for paper. And so when we talk about the wood fibers, you can recycle them up to five to seven times. Whereas for example, the plastic, you can only recycle three to four times. So.
00:07:05
Speaker
It cannot be grow, it is based on a fossil material and that is the big difference, I would say. That's fascinating. I did not know that trees actually start to emit CO2 once they've reached their end of life. And now it also makes total sense that you as a company are uniquely positioned, being in the market for 700 years, that you actually have the trees that you can use then. Yeah.
00:07:31
Speaker
Fascinating. Sorry. Thank you so much for sharing that. You're welcome. I would like to dive into the communications aspect a little bit. So your main target audience is B2B. Yes. I would be really curious, what channels and methods do you as a company use to then reach your audience? Well, you're absolutely right. We are mainly focusing on B2B and that's why the broad public might not know us, but that's totally fine for us.
00:07:59
Speaker
However, we do have quite some different target groups within our whole audience. We call them buying customers and non-buying customers because a building project is very complex and and involves a lot of different parties. So our main topic is of course that we want to build buildings from wood, but as you can imagine, it's not just one person deciding on that material choice.
00:08:26
Speaker
So in order for our buying customers like carpenters or on-site construction companies to make it even possible that they order from us, we need architects, planners, developers, or investors to even consider building with wood. So we need to also talk to them one step a little further before that. And that is why we have a bit of a two-folded communications and marketing strategy. So the one is more educational, where we talk about the benefits of building with wood for each of these segments. And the other one is about our specific range of products that you can put together for your project. And in terms of channels, then is it mainly PR that you're reaching out or what kind of channels can I imagine you're using them? Actually, we do have digital marketing team. So for our social media channels,
00:09:21
Speaker
That has grown a lot in recent years, obviously also due to the COVID crisis and our customers being more present online. Previously, it used to be a lot of brochures and printed material and we wanted to get away from that. Makes sense. Yeah. And one of our companies that we looked up to was actually IKEA with their flagship brochure. So we have decided to, I know that IKEA has completely canceled this printed brochure. Yeah. That is where we wanted to go with all all our other brochures, but we kind of made a compromise with our salespeople that ah we have we will only have one printed brochure and that is our flagship brochure. So this is of course also a big
00:10:04
Speaker
channel, if you want to say. Yeah. So then of course, events and trades, the trade fairs and public communication. Yeah. Okay. Got it. So I think one of the challenges that you on a communication side actually have is you have a product that has a lot of technical aspects and maybe also sustainability related. There's a lot of data. How?
Storytelling in Environmental Marketing
00:10:27
Speaker
do you make that digestible and accessible to your target audience, also knowing that I just read this study that emotional advertising and emotional messaging is is very much underrated in B2B.
00:10:44
Speaker
communications because people think, yeah, we have a homoeconomics sitting on the other side that just cares about data. But actually, whenever customer promises are integrated in messages, they are more likely to increase market share and revenue. So in terms of revenue, they compared non-customer promise campaigns in B2B and customer promise-based campaigns. And the actual results was 30% was the increase in revenue for campaigns that integrated promises and just 20% for campaigns that did not integrate emotional promises. How do you deal with this challenge of communicating technical information, but also making it more emotional then? Well, I think the key to that is actually the marketing buzzword of storytelling because um we need to
00:11:41
Speaker
explain and educate people why building with wood is so important, not only for the construction industry, but also for the whole planet actually, because it helps combating climate change. me Because and today, 37% of the total global CO2 emissions is coming from the construction industry, which is a lot more than any consumer related CO2 emissions. For example, the Aviation industry is only taking up 2%. So it's a big share. And of that um percentage, about one third is coming from the construction materials, which is mainly steel and concrete. And they are fossil. And when we can shift that to more construction with wood, then we can save a lot of CO2 annually. yeah The world needs a new approach to materials.
00:12:40
Speaker
and that wood can help this transformation, but it also means that not every building, of course, can be built from wood. However, we think that the share needs to change in order to make the construction sector not being a source of greenhouse gas emissions, but be becoming a carbon sink.
00:12:59
Speaker
you In the very beginning, you already mentioned the story of the 700-year-old company and the story of trees actually start to emit CO2 when they've reached their end of life cycle. What other stories do you have or what are your favorite stories about your company that you always like to tell people? What I like as well is one of the campaigns that we did and it's not it was never intended to just be a campaign, but it started off as a campaign and it's called the Woodhouse Effect.
00:13:30
Speaker
So this is kind of our umbrella for the storytelling, where we want to summarize all the topics around innovation, around our efficient production, about sustainability topics, um and about our overall agenda is summarized under this. And we are yeah we are always saying that with wooden buildings, we can build a second forest in the cities.
00:13:59
Speaker
And that is actually something that I hope gets stuck in people's minds. Yeah, I like that very much.
Long-term Sustainability Strategy
00:14:07
Speaker
So when we talk about sustainability, a lot of companies have begun last year or are going into a more sustainable direction this year, maybe next year also because of EU regulations coming in, sustainable reporting standards, et cetera. When do you think was the shift for Stora Enzo to say, okay, we need to integrate sustainability into our strategy and make it part of our purpose?
00:14:32
Speaker
When was that in the 700 year story that your company already has? I don't think there is an exact date when they started it because it's such an integral part of who we are. Our products are by default sustainable and we started to talk about sustainability long before it was a trend. So we started quite early because in Scandinavia as well, sustainability is much longer and higher on the agenda than anywhere else.
00:15:00
Speaker
might be also part of it because culture is focusing a lot on forest and biodiversity around them. That is also a bit the difference to other companies because it's not something we put on top of our products or on top of our strategy. It is inherently who we are and this is our DNA and that makes it, I think, the best proof of authenticity you can have.
00:15:26
Speaker
yeah Whenever we talk about sustainability, there is always this gap that we observe of what customers say they want and then what they actually do and how their buying behavior shifts. So I've read this study that 73% of B2B buyers plan to deselect suppliers based on environmental performance.
00:15:50
Speaker
Which makes total sense because when they have to report their CO2 emissions, they also have to go to their suppliers and ask them, what is your perception when it comes to your stakeholders, to your customers? How important is sustainability for them
Carbon Footprint Reduction Initiatives
00:16:05
Speaker
at the moment? How perceptive are they to sustainability messaging? I think they are very keen on putting carbon footprint, all of their products. And I think that is one of them.
00:16:18
Speaker
things we drove in our industries that we are operating in. So for example, in the packaging industry, we have worked together with our customers um to make some kind of eco labels and make it more understandable for the final customers. yeah And if we if we talk about our building projects and our our division, we are also keen on making this a bit more visible. And that's why we have recently implemented a carbon calculator where you can put your project details in. So how much cubic meters of CLT or LBL have been used and how far the transport was. So the distance, the transport emissions are calculated as well. And you get out the carbon footprint of your project and how much CO2 is stored in your material, even offsetting already the transport emissions, for example.
00:17:15
Speaker
That's very interesting. And I think that's a, that's such a good example on how to make it tangible because giving people this calculator, I think really shows what their impact can be when they work with you or when they work based on wood. Yes, exactly. And that's also where regulation is heading towards. I would say that to make it a bit more tangible and easily accountable as well, how much product is contributing or fighting the climate crisis, so to say. Yeah. So you have, and I always always show these examples in my marketing academy, you have set some very ambitious targets to have 100% regenerative products by 2050. Do you actively communicate those long-term goals also to your stakeholders, to your clients?
00:18:06
Speaker
Because I saw you have this huge sustainability reporting hub on your website where you show very transparently what your impact is and what your progress also is. Do you also use that on digital media or in your PR then, those milestones and what you're actually achieving? Well, I think that depends a bit on the target audience we are talking to, because if we are talking to, I would say sustainability experts,
00:18:34
Speaker
Then of course, it's something that we actively communicate and we talk about. However, if we're, for example, talking to our buying or non-buying customers, as I mentioned, it's architects, planners, or carpenters, they don't necessarily care about that, I would say. So it's it's something they are interested in, but they are not caring about it that much in detail to learn about each and every part of this whole gender.
00:19:04
Speaker
And but I think what makes it important to them is that with this aim, we have shifted from just minimizing negative effects of all our operations to becoming net positive and fully circular by 2050. So it's for for us, we say it's not enough to be sustainable anymore. We have to be a positive contributor to mitigating climate change.
00:19:35
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. Before we go to the final three questions that I always ask everybody here on the podcast, do you have any questions for me? Would you ever have thought about the building material having an impact on the climate crisis?
00:19:49
Speaker
So I have thought about it because when I started working for Greenpeace many years ago, one of the first things that I dove into was what are the biggest problems that we have.
00:20:04
Speaker
and Like many other people, I was thinking it's transportation. And then I was really surprised to see, no, it's actually building things and building infrastructure and cementing our earth. So I was aware of that. But what I was really surprised in is how good as an alternative wood can actually be. Also with the stories that you've just told. So I think that to me, wood seems like a hidden champion right now that
00:20:35
Speaker
we're not talking enough about. So I think there needs to be much more outreach to really tell people, okay, these are the the positive effects and sharing stories like you just did, I think is crucial in getting more people to understand this, to understand the impact it can have on our environment, to show the benefits of building with wood and to get rid of the other stuff that we're building upon because they are not that good for us.
00:21:06
Speaker
We're doing our best that more people will learn about it. Yes, I hope so. And maybe one thing to mention or to add to to our topics is why construction is even necessary because people might think, I know that broad discussion is always talking about land use and that we cannot use more land. However, that's exactly the thing that with wood you can build higher.
00:21:29
Speaker
On top of other buildings, for example, you can build more stories because the material is more lightweight, etc. On a global scale, urban housing needs to double by 2050 because of the expansion of the world's population.
Future of Urban Housing and Sustainability
00:21:44
Speaker
So this is why we need to construct in the future and our cities need to grow and that's why we need to build.
00:21:52
Speaker
Yeah, almost a perfect sentence to end this, but we'll go to the final three questions before we do that. Okay. So the first question is, what is good marketing to you in three words? I'm sorry, it's four words, but I think it's not seen as marketing. Oh, I like that. What does it have to be to not be seen as marketing? I think it has to be authentic, relatable, and interesting. I like that. What do you think is the future of marketing?
00:22:21
Speaker
I think the current situation is that marketing is perceived a bit as as a sales tool and has some kind of a bad touch. And I think it has to be reframed a bit of what marketing stands for within a business and within an operation and what it is responsible for. So it should support the company in order to find either employees, customers or investors for that matter.
00:22:50
Speaker
And whatever the company is producing, solving, offering, they all need to be communicated somehow. And whether it is part of a marketing campaign where you can define the messages yourself, or it is part of the public relations where you can only steer the messages that are going out. But I think it should become a bit more of an integral part of the business. It's not just an add-on when you have enough money to spend or something to support sales, it should be an integral part of the whole business operation. Yes.
Marketing's Role in Relationship Building
00:23:27
Speaker
And I also think that far too often marketing is seen as something that can just like drive sales, as you mentioned, but I think it's really about building a long-term relationship. And if I want to create a long-term relationship, it's not that good to just constantly repeat what you want to sell. Yeah. I think that could be. When you think about ah someone that is looking for a love relationship and if you would just poster your portrait picture on over the whole city, you probably won't end up having a love relationship. You just need to get to know the other person and find communalities and find what you are both looking for. and then
00:24:09
Speaker
this relationship can start. Exactly. If I would have a first date and I would ask my vice versa at the very first time we meet each other, hey, do you want to come home with me tonight? Probably not that successful. yeah Exactly. Okay. Final question, Sabrina. Yes. What is a book that you have recently read that you would like to recommend here? I would like to recommend All the books by John Strellecki and I have just read Reconnection, a third visit to the cafe at the edge of the world, because I think they're easy to read, but with some subtle messages within that is also easily understandable to everyone and also something that can be applied either to business or to private topics.
00:24:57
Speaker
Yeah, I love his books. I think I read the first one, The Coffee at the End of the World 15 years ago. Yeah. And it's still, I know exactly where it stands in my bookshelf. I very much like this book. Thank you so much for sharing it. You're welcome. Sabrina, thank you so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate it. I was great and lovely talking with you about this amazing company that you're a part of. Thank you. It was a pleasure. Thank you for inviting me.
00:25:26
Speaker
Thank you so much for taking time and I really look forward to speaking to you soon again. Yes. See you. See you. And that's it for today. Thank you so much for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, please forward it to a friend or a colleague. This would mean the world to me as I pour my heart and a lot of energy into producing this podcast with all the brilliant minds that share their perspective here.
00:25:52
Speaker
And if you are curious to use the huge potential of sustainability marketing for your own brand and you know the value that a great marketing strategy brings to really connect with your target audience, give me a call or send me a message. I'd love to get to know you and your projects. You can find me on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok or through my newsletter, where I write in-depth thought pieces that help you build a successful and exciting marketing strategy.
00:26:20
Speaker
Again, thank you so much for listening. I really look forward to sharing more with you in the future.