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💪 Changing the core business model - Marika Püspök on how to steer a complex group of businesses to sustainability
81 Plays10 months ago
Marika Püspök is the Chief Climate Officer of the Wiener Stadtwerke Group, since February 1, 2024. This is Viennas main infrastructure service provider for mobility and energy. It handles over 16.000 employees and several minicipal players like the Vienna energy provider, the Vienna public transportation services, the Vienna garage operators and many more. In short: It is one of the biggest employers in Austria.
Her task is to set up the strategy of the self proclaimed climate protection corporation. That includes implementing ESG and sustainability in the Group. And because of all of that I have been looking forward to this chat now for a long time.
About the FutureStrategies podcast and your host:
I’m Florian Schleicher, a marketing strategist. I help brands gain clarity, spark momentum, and turn strategy into something that actually moves people. In 2022, I started my marketing studio FUTURESTRATEGIES. to do exactly that. I currently work with corporate clients from 11 countries.
If you want more, check out my FutureStrategies newsletter – weekly inspiration on marketing, strategy and sustainability.
And if something’s blocking your brand from doing its best work, let’s talk.
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Transcript
Vienna's Climate Neutrality Vision
00:00:00
Speaker
We are going to be, in 2014, the international bottle for climate neutrality when it comes to municipal organizations on city level. Welcome to the Future Strategies podcast. My name is Florian Schleicher. I'm a marketing strategist focused on sustainability, and I'm your host here. Every two weeks, you can listen to my interviews with international experts, and together we will explore where marketing strategies and sustainability intersect with great examples, insightful stories, and a look behind the scenes of some amazing brands. If you are curious how to apply all of that for your own business, I do this for my clients from all around the world through inspiring workshops, guiding mentoring, and an exciting on online academy. But more on that at the end of this episode. Now
Roles in Climate Strategy
00:00:50
Speaker
let's jump into today's interview.
00:00:52
Speaker
Marika Brusberg is the Chief Climate Officer of the Wienerschattweke Group since February 1st, 2024. This is Vienna's main infrastructure service provider for mobility and energy. It handles over 16,000 employees and several municipal players like the Vienna Energy Provider, the Vienna Public Transportation Services,
00:01:14
Speaker
the Vienna Garage operators, and many more. In short, it's one of the biggest employers in Austria. Mareka's task is to set up the strategy of the self-proclaimed Climate Protection Corporation. That includes implementing ESG and sustainability in the group. And because of all of that, I've been really looking forward to speaking with you. Thank you for coming on the show, Mareka. Well, thank you so much, Flora, for the invitation. I feel really honored.
00:01:40
Speaker
You are in charge of climate issues and the group has set the goal of becoming a climate protection organization. yes What does that mean? We just, we are starting to bring our newly settled on vision into into the organization, to the outside world. We are just, I'm coming from a management team meeting two weeks ago where we actually signed off on the new vision that sort of depicts what does this climate protection company, climate change,
00:02:13
Speaker
combating climate change. What does that mean? And the newly vision that up until now is only there in German, but I'm trying to to translate it now as we speak, is we want to be we are going to be, in 2014, the international model for climate neutrality.
Challenges and Strategies for Climate Neutrality
00:02:32
Speaker
when it comes to municipal organizations on city level. We know that Vienna has set its goal for 2040. And as we are 100% daughter company of the city of Vienna, they said, okay, we need you in a start-up group to actually make that happen and to make that possible and to tackle in those big areas, mobility, energy, but also, as you mentioned, some smaller companies like the cemeteries of Vienna, we know that that they belong to too or for example a mobility company which runs to lower australia bordering
00:03:09
Speaker
like connecting Vienna and the Wall Street, which is the Badna-Badn rank to the south of Vienna. So we have a lot of companies who directly contribute to that 2040 climate neutrality goal, knowing that climate neutrality is very debated, so we we might need to change that word actually in the next couple of years, because climate neutrality is in debate in the sustainability realm, because it could also mean that you just buy off a your carbon offsetting yeah setting and this we don't want to do. and Very openly, no, we want to reduce our carbon impacts and but therefore make the 2040 goal possible. So, of course, this vision
00:03:55
Speaker
It's the starting point for the group strategy, so everything has to be directed, so as you mentioned, to this climate protection company goal. As you know, there have been many changes from our society, starting from Corona, COVID crisis, handing over to energy crisis topics,
00:04:16
Speaker
but also the insecurity when it comes to geopolitical conflicts and so on. So many factors from the inside that impact also the business of the Wienerschläntreich group and the newly elected, a newly appointed management that started this year, set up a new organization saying we need to tackle those big levers that impact our business on a group level together. So the different companies shouldn't be left alone on the one hand to combat or to deal with those topics on the first side because there's a lot of synergies obviously between those companies. yeah And on the other hand,
00:04:57
Speaker
also bring that into processes. So for a big multi-business model corporation like the Vina Shatveke Group, the big question remains, how do I steer the ship during those, or the couple of ships actually, during those really impactful and and exciting but also complex times. And the group strategy process is the way we handle those common topics that impact our organization. So we have seven newly appointed chief offices in our main company that handles all the sub companies. So we have the holding structure. And on group level, we are responsible tackling all those big, major topics that impact our organizations.
Integrating Business and Sustainability
00:05:43
Speaker
he the group strategy process should focus on whether it's a 20 to 30 strategic initiatives, but the board of directors on the top of the introductory group should actually look at to be able to take the relevant strategic decisions. And even if some things are not directly related, they serve as a kind of support processes or support projects or initiatives where we can then build on to which that two thousand and forty the mission that comes with that vision depicting ensuring the highest possible quality of life for people who live in this city, which you know Vienna has been elected for some years in a row as the most livable city on this planet, which which we're really proud of. But it comes with, of course, a high level of
00:06:32
Speaker
aspiring where we want to be and where we want to stay on that. It relates very much to that to that view from the outside that we are living in a great city and we want that city to stay like this and also maybe even make it better for some people who feel already the the impact of climate change. Yeah, I mean, definitely with this summer being the hottest summer ever recorded in Austria. And what I see is whenever I give talks or strategy workshops, sustainability comes down to bringing people, planet and profit under one roof. Now you already mentioned people, that's a livable city aspect. You mentioned the planet with the goals that you've set for yourselves.
00:07:15
Speaker
And what I often see is then organizations have those visions and aspiring goals, but then at the end of the day, they need to make money. How do you deal with that knowing that your daughter organizations also want to generate value in terms of economic value? Let me start with the most obvious example from our group. If you look at Veen Energy, the energy provider, it is actually now their core business to change and to decarbonize their energy model. So this is no longer at the periphery. They are making profit from, for example, in the long term, and that is
00:07:57
Speaker
That is big challenge technology-wise also. How do I build big heat pumps, for example, in the in the the upcoming years that still generate that profit that you that you talked about? And how can by that I reduce my carbon emissions? So profit and planets in the realm of energy, they can no longer be divided. Those two things already match.
00:08:25
Speaker
And there are already a lot of people within those 2,500, roughly, employees in Bienenergie, who actually do nothing else, like probably putting solar panels on all the ah official buildings of the most municipality of Vienna, but also looking for new business models, where the profit comes from renewables, for example, we have a lot of wind installed capacity around Vienna. We have, of course, solar that we put on the roofs of Vienna's buildings, but we also look for geothermal heating sources. So we have, for example, if you look at the biggest hospital in our in our city, the
00:09:09
Speaker
the argumentic parking lot, the central hospital, they're doing a lot of renovations of their building. They have a huge building site and we're already talking with them. How can we do how can we put a huge heat pump there in the 9th district and then you know also heat the surrounding streets and buildings coming from that wrong source where the hospital feeds itself, but also the surrounding buildings. So you need to think differently in terms of entities And there we are quite happy because with the city of Vienna, we have a mother and we have people there in the in administrative bodies that has that support us. Of course, they need to keep their processes and their regulations, but they have big trust in us and they try to pave the way on the administrative side so that we can even build new models for
00:10:08
Speaker
handing for handling that initial transition. And so profit and planet are no longer divided, for example.
Transitioning to Sustainable Practices
00:10:16
Speaker
Vienna has always been the city that has managed to have great visions for itself. If you look at the history, if you look, for example, we mentioned the flooding like three weeks ago, Vienna was protected by the Danube island. The Danube island was a politically, heavily disputed project when it was erected. And now it's saved the city from drowning.
00:10:41
Speaker
That's a super interesting point, because there are these huge initiatives like the Danube Island yeah that has an effect for the future. Then there is Vienna's biggest shopping street, Marielle Hifrstrasse. Very big debate whether it should be car-free yeah and just a pedestrian area. Now let's talk about communication, because you also have a background there.
00:11:03
Speaker
Let's start with internal communications before we go to the broader population. When you go to your daughter companies, are they like, ah, yes, Marika, let's talk about the climate and the planet. Or is it also a challenge for them because they also have their average daily life that they just need to figure out and they have their own horror problems and then you're there and saying, hey, but you also need to care about sustainability. How is it internally?
00:11:30
Speaker
That's a super interesting question photo because I just started after being in that role for half a year and very much in recruiting talks all the time to set up my my my team, which is my main focus in the last half year and set up processes.
00:11:46
Speaker
Now i I'm having a really good leadership team in place, so I can focus my work, my daily work, much more on that communication role. But that is actually what what my website wants, because you have to explain it. And there's a lot of insecurity in that topic of sustainability. and Actually, it's not sustainability anymore. It's changing our core business model.
00:12:09
Speaker
no And that is the biggest change or transformation, I would say, that the Dvina Stadtwegik group has been, and we are now in its 75th year of the holding being in place. Some of our dotters are more and much older. And I think that's the biggest transformation, because we're we're looking into each and every process, be it from from waste management until the whole thing of purchasing and the whole area of who are the partners that we work with, where do we buy the primary materials to build our new U2, U5 underground lines that have unfortunately been flooded, which has come across this time and money. So that's not a go to a good thing, but the flooding actually helps a little bit my story. It's terrible to say that, but it's a communication tool.
00:13:06
Speaker
And an example for for what is my role now, two weeks ago I went to talk to a leadership team, Edvina Lukarban, and they're the ones operating the Badna Bound the line, connecting the center of the city of Vienna with Badna, bigger or city in the south of Vienna. And I talked to them about how does the flooding, and that was two weeks two days after that.
00:13:29
Speaker
What does that have to do with our goals of becoming a climate protection company for Vienna and the surroundings? And what does that have to do with actually the job of a person securing that our passengers on the banner, on the train and line are secure and coming in time and in budget that they can really afford to bring people from their individual car-related mobility patterns and to actually lure them and make it very attractive for them to change to the badna band and not take the highway. So a lot of that is connected in the doors.
00:14:15
Speaker
motivating people to look at their core business and their core job that they are paid for through a different lens. And I always say, you have to unlearn some things to learn something new. and Another example, our our network company, the Vina Netze, they have always been dealing with fossil gas up to now. So we are doing a lot to bring that gas out of the system. So you have their 700 colleagues who are absolute experts for sometimes for 20, 30, 40 years, we have a very consistent workforce there. Thanks God, because they're so knowledgeable about their topics. But now they have to learn to manage hydrogen instead of fossil ah fuels and gas. So that is my third pillar that the chief climate officer rests upon, saying
00:15:07
Speaker
We can't use the same patterns of work anymore. We can't look at our voices the same way. How do you provide tools and methods, especially for leadership? And leadership is super important in the change process to handle that transformation. How do you give them confidence so that they can provide their own workforce, their colleagues with confidence? How do you give them also the communication bits and pieces so that they can explain why is it that I have to change the way I'm working? Why do I no longer handle the gaps that I've been handling for 20, 30 years, but I'm now learning something new which
00:15:51
Speaker
i' I'm a very curious person. So for me, learning is something that I i love doing. likewise film I did that change management course for a year, but wonderful guys from Trink Consulting. I learned so much and it has absolutely broadened my resume and made me look at my own way of working and approaching my my tasks in a totally different way. And this is actually what we do. We have a small team of in-house consultants who help in the processes and help leadership to change those processes. So you need to build the process according to the goal that you want to reach. yeah So if you want more point participation in the coming back to question, how do you communicate that into the organization? If you want more people to participate in this ESG and sustainability realm, you need to involve them in the process. exactly right yeah we
00:16:47
Speaker
and make them feel part of it.
Communicating Sustainability to the Public
00:16:50
Speaker
And that is different because in former times, leadership was trusted to know all the answers to all the questions. That has changed dramatically because wealth has become too complex for the boss to know that. So you have to rely on your decision-making and your way of handling your tasks, you have to rely on a team. Yeah. And I think we also reached a stage in our society where it's okay for leaders to say, I don't know, so which would have been unthinkable 20, 30 years ago, where everybody was like, okay, my boss He, she, they have to know who else. And I think it's now okay to do that. The other thing that I found very interesting is you mentioned curiosity. I'm also a very curious person. I actually prefer the German word, which is Neugeirig, which is addicted actually to newness.
00:17:44
Speaker
And I think that also is a challenge sometimes to be this driven to have something new, but I think it's a very important quality if you tackle a new area. And the third thing, what I really liked about this felt like a masterclass on how to integrate sustainability because It's not that much about sustainability, actually. It's more about creating a future for the organization, for the people that are working there. And coming back to communication and marketing, this always should start with understanding what people actually want, what motivates them, what challenges they have. And if you go to them and say, hey, you now have to care about sustainability, they probably say, yeah, I'm not interested. But if you say to them, I found a great solution for you,
00:18:27
Speaker
that will help you to keep your job, to increase your value in the organization. and That solves a problem and it's sustainable. I think that's the way how to do it. Absolutely. and there's There's a lot of things that people have to learn new and coming back to your question, I'll communicate that. I think it's going to take time. I always say you can't force people to change the way they think about themselves in their job. You can't also think that everybody is working to fulfill their own purpose. That is also totally unrealistic. Some people just work to be or able to earn their living and support their families. That is totally right. But on the other hand, and that is so wonderful in my in my my job and in my organization. They're also impacted
00:19:17
Speaker
at the same time because they might live in Vienna, they might live in the outskirts so they're connected via mobility offerings and we're expanding very much this so-called last mile concept so that everybody who comes to Vienna can actually leave their car outside of the city. and change to public transport. So we're constantly thinking about new ways to make that more attractive and more accessible to everybody. I'm dreaming actually of a green Viennese model.
00:19:50
Speaker
this So I think Vienna can really be at that, that really is the connection with our vision to be this international model of climate neutrality when it comes to cities and of a municipal company. Because I think, you know, formally we might not, everybody might have said, well, why international? You just, you know, you look after the people of Vienna.
00:20:14
Speaker
Yes, but I think we're on the planet, and the planet, you know, you can't draw a line between Vienna and low Austria or Austria or Germany. It's all planet. So you also have to look for solutions on an integrated level. Yes. We are getting there. So we are changing also because the world around us changes and we have to adapt in those fields. That's almost a perfect segue to the next area, which is external communications.
00:20:43
Speaker
At the very beginning of our talk today, you mentioned that it's also important to excite people. And I think the big challenge that we have is people have their everyday lives and they don't really care that much about sustainability. When I worked for Greenpeace, for example, our office was in the middle of the 10th district, so not very wealthy household area.
00:21:05
Speaker
And we were constantly thinking about, okay, what can we do to get more people to subscribe, so to say, to our vision of a greener planet and to save the environment. And then I was going on my lunch break to a supermarket to buy something and people there were buying the cheapest meat available, not because they don't care, but because that's what they can afford. yeah And that was a really good reality check for me because while we were thinking about, okay, we want to move to a net zero society, people were caring just to put meals on their table. yeah So, coming back to the Dina Schatwerk.
00:21:43
Speaker
What can you do to excite people also for sustainability? Because if we only talk about loss and having less in the future, I think we're going to lose people. So we need this excitement. Absolutely. Coming back from my old job, the communication, but now also together with my colleague Astra, who's now responsible, we set up a study that we conducted and looked in the realm of the 75th anniversary that we're celebrating this year.
00:22:12
Speaker
What do people care in that field? And they care about their politics living, as you said, you know, how can I afford something? Where can I live a good life at the end of day of the day? when we When we say goodbye to this planet, everybody wants to look back on their lives and say, well, I did the best I can and my kids are care for, or I invested in their education so that they can care for themselves. So people all over the planet it have the same dreams and the same goals. And if you look at the Maslov's hierarchy pyramid, you know,
00:22:51
Speaker
where their main concerns are. And we actually talked a lot this year in our organization about what is more important. And of course it's a little bit palpable and and also a little bit frustrating sometimes that with the whole discussion of security and geopolitical conflict and on the other side of the of the of the crisis of the pricing of inflation, the the whole sustainability thing has a little bit been pushed into the back. But we say it's going to come back and it has come back with the force already. So you need to connect those things.
00:23:32
Speaker
If you can't answer the question, how can I afford living in a green city? You're going to lose people, as you said, with their with your experiences when you work for Greenpeace. And so we need to look for solutions. And that is, again, a high praise for my city Vienna and the work.
00:23:50
Speaker
um in in political and administrative part, because of course being in a in ah a more socially oriented political realm, people care a lot about how do we take everybody on that journey? How can we make it affordable for everybody? I mean, we've been having 365 euro all including mobility ticket now for 12 years, I think, 10, I'm sorry. Yeah, no price increase whatsoever. I'm still afraid that it's going to come at one point. It will probably come at one point, but politically, politicians in our owners say we have to keep those prices because if we want people to change to the to the underground, to the bus, to the tram, they have to be able to avoid that. And I understand from a political point of view, I mean, the other
00:24:41
Speaker
on the downside of course having financed that but we we are confident that killdding them we can do that also in the future so there is a big focus on a livable and affordable city and that is where Vienna stands so with What we would we are discussing a lot with our owners is what kinds of rules and regulations do we need for people to be able to become part of the energy transition and of the mobility transition. What do we need to give them in in terms of of help for their own quality of life and what do we have to offer them, what energy tariffs do have to be available so that the greener energy tariffs in the future are as affordable as the old fossil fuel energy tariffs. So that is a highly important
00:25:37
Speaker
let's say a pair of glasses, how we look upon all our offerings. The accessibility has to be there, the affordability has to be there, and it has to be consumable by everybody and and making people part of that process. Ensuring that they participate means that they have to it has to be easy for them. Yeah. where Where can they go into? We have good examples in our group. We have the FVV, actually and people, passengers that use the Lina Lina in the Vienna lines, they can can of bring in their ideas. What could we do better? So they're already kind creating the mobility offering of the future and people want to do that.
00:26:22
Speaker
There's a lot of people say, hey, I'm taking the underground every day. I've always you know thought we should do this and this differently. Who can I talk to? And they come to me. Getting the the outside perspective really in, because otherwise you lose context. And then coming back also to what you described when we talked about internal communications, it's about understanding people. It's also about understanding customers. And if they are having inputs on what you could do better,
00:26:51
Speaker
That's great. And then you can build upon that. And don't forget, we have nearly 17,000 already, so we're growing. And everybody knows somebody in the city who works for the minish outfit. Our people have been really, really helpful and very motivated, dedicated, but that takes a toll on our organization too. And when you come back to to the whole ESG topic, you know, I just passed one of my colleagues on the way to to our talk here, and she said, you know,
00:27:21
Speaker
We're also tired. We're tired because we are, we have to explain that new, those new regulations within the organization, 200, 300 times. And we're like at the forefront, we kind of pioneers and there's a lot of, of pushback. So, and so it's, that is going back to my change, expertise and the one of my team, how do you build, where do you build formats also where people can voice their concerns?
00:27:50
Speaker
Do you have a culture that allows people within? because yes ask for internal of communication Do you have formats? Do you have rounds? Do you have psychological safety in place so that people can say, I don't understand that. That's too complex. Can you please take me by the hand literally and you know tell me what I need to do?
00:28:13
Speaker
and That is going to be one of the biggest challenges in that whole climate transition topic because there's so much fear. There's a lot of uncertainty and organizations like us have to lead the way. So we're like an icebreaker into the into a new kind of looking at that. We don't have an alternative. We have to be more transparent for ourselves. We have to know where the emissions are coming from.
00:28:42
Speaker
So in able to change them, we have to know what circularity business models are there, what can we harvest there, what are the low hanging fruits, but also what are the wider long-term transformative processes. So you you actually work of very different levels on a personal level, on a communication level, but also on a process level. I just, but as I said, came from a really interesting change with the CFO. So the controllers are.
00:29:12
Speaker
in our ESG team are very, very... You need to really look at the challenges from all different angles. And that's a super complex issue. Marikadera, so many more things I would love to talk about, but as the saying goes, all good things come to an end. Before we go to the three final questions that I ask everybody, do you have a question for me?
00:29:34
Speaker
Yes, the question would be, what is your wish if you're now sitting in front of me and say, Monica, can you please make that possible so that my life in Vienna, being been impacted by the English traffic and products and services could be better? I think for me, the biggest issue, and I also realized this over the last to ah the last two, three years is I always loved summer.
00:30:05
Speaker
But the past two summers, I really came to to dread summer because it just gets too hot. I can't focus on my work anymore, which is super important for me as an entrepreneur. i I have to think of ways how to get through summer and I'm thinking for the first time, okay, maybe next summer I'm not going to be in Vienna.
00:30:30
Speaker
because it's just not livable anymore. And I think what we really need is, and that would be my wish also, being a marketer, can you as the Vina Schatwege remind people that this is an issue?
00:30:46
Speaker
Because what I see is, and we see that with the flood just happened a couple of weeks ago, people will forget all of this. They will forget how hot it was in summer. They will forget the floods. And then they will go back to what they've been doing every day. What can you do as one of Vienna's are probably biggest employers?
The Future of Marketing Sustainability
00:31:08
Speaker
to help people remember and to say, hey, like you mentioned, we're building the subway and we're doing so much construction because we want to keep Vienna as it is and not have it as a sauna in summer or being flooded. So my wish would really be, can you be more of an active communicator to make people aware that there are changes, that we have already some solutions for that, and that we can keep Vienna as one of the most livable cities.
00:31:51
Speaker
ah big. forever You asked me. No, absolutely. That's all on me. No, that is actually, you describe perfectly one of the most important parts of my role. So I'm constantly meeting with other people. I want to, I brought this summer to specifically meet some people where we could say, how could we team up? How can we build a community of people who are actually trying to do more and, and resources to think about. So that's going to be, I wish we, I wish we would sit here like in two years time. You will tell me, Monica, I actually realized or I saw, or I heard, and I actually felt that you have been, you're working towards my wish. So that would be great. Then we'll do the second version of our conversation in two years.
00:32:45
Speaker
I'm looking forward to that. Here are my final three questions. So what is good marketing for you in three words? I really don't want to use the word authentic because it's so overused. I think it has, I would more take value-based. I think marketing has to differentiate is the product, is the brand, value proposition in line with my i see that in one brand name to have set up extreme people ask that they're coming forward and say, can you prove that we go for greenwashing and we keep so active in the end, can you prove that you fulfill on your
00:33:31
Speaker
we We actually see that in and statistics also that about a quarter of Gen Z and Gen Y refuse job offers if the company's values coming to sustainability don't align with their own. So that just proves the case. Second, what is good marketing?
00:33:50
Speaker
I think good marketing has to be also light. What do I mean by that? I think it has to be tackling into my sense of wellbeing. So heavy, heavy, heavy, it like dragging me down in a world that is already sometimes very tiring for me as an individual. Actually we talked to a friend of mine in the morning, come up to the work.
00:34:15
Speaker
And I told her yesterday, I found two girls on Instagram. We're just doing funny things, trying our things in the life so much. And I actually went to sleep laughing. I bet that is such a laughing, enjoying life. Although the answer is not funny in in some things that I think good marketing has to also bring the levity and ease to my life.
00:34:45
Speaker
The third thing is something that we at Wiener Stadtveke very much stand for, down to earth. We're the ones digging up the ditches. We're the ones, you know, building a new, a new pipe and laying there the new rail tracks of our new underground system. So we're very down to earth. I don't want to have any, you know, high flyer things. I mean, I want to, I want to, on a meter level,
00:35:15
Speaker
um want to be able to see the values of the company and the marketing is tackling the big questions of life, let's say. So there is a kind of meta level to that. But in the promise that the marketing is doing, I want to be a very doctor. I think we've proven in the last years, be it on the big players, me and Enaki, me and Olivia, that we're very approachable. All our marketing has been very much directed towards people and their needs.
00:35:45
Speaker
So it's not it's not a and remote concept that we sell. I love that. I especially love the Gone to Earth metaphor also with you being in the trenches and digging actually. Second question, what is the future of marketing? The future of marketing is, and I think that has been in the marketing discourse for quite some years now but I think it's changing, the narrative is changing, the personalized brand. What does that mean? Look at the summer. we have I went to three, or in the end, only two big concerts because the English week couldn't come. but I also was planning on going there. Yeah, I went probably into Dell and I thought, wow, immobilizing masses is something that those superstars are really good at. But in in the core of the message, it's a very personalized approach.
00:36:39
Speaker
to bring over the message. So they use themselves, both Adele and Chris Martin, standing for the band Coldplay. They use their own convictions and their own values to actually promise something for you, Flora, that resonates differently with you than me. And I think that is a real that is a real masterpiece of marketing. So there has to be generic And at the same time, very personalized, there has to be, as we said, participative, to be able to feel it. If I don't feel the brand, if I don't feel the promise, it's not going to be mine. We remember our childhood love brands. Why were they our love brands? Because we could eat it. It was an ice cream. Or we could, you know, play with it. We could touch it. So it was very, a very sensitory. Yes.
00:37:33
Speaker
senses-driven experience. So I think that's coming back. I think senses, the body, the embodiment of marketing, I think that's coming back. Interesting.
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:37:44
Speaker
Final question. What book have you recently read that you would like to recommend here? I don't know if you know the Austrian author Sacha Stanmises. He comes from, I think he's actually Bosnian from birth. He moved to Austria as a young kid.
00:38:03
Speaker
And I love his funny and I love jokes. I love his funny way of looking at identity topics and looking at a multidimensional, very diverse society. And I love that because it makes it, as I said before, easy.
00:38:26
Speaker
and while at the same time, the topics are heavy. and And I can think about those things, you know, lying in bed before I go to sleep. And it resonates and there's a process in my subconscious being funneled, rather than being instigated, but I'm a big fan.
00:38:43
Speaker
Sounds like I should give it a try. Malika, thank you very much. This has been a delight. Thank you for giving us a behind the scenes impression of what you're doing. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and thank you for coming on the show. Thank you so much, Flora, and it was absolutely a blast with you. All the best. See you soon.
00:39:02
Speaker
And that's it for today. Thank you so much for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, please forward it to a friend or colleague. This would mean the world to me, as I pour my heart and a lot of energy into producing this podcast with all the brilliant minds that share their perspective here.
00:39:19
Speaker
And if you are curious to use the huge potential of sustainability marketing for your own brand, and you know the value that a great marketing strategy brings to really connect with your target audience, give me a call or send me a message. I'd love to get to know you and your projects. You can find me on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, or through my newsletter, where I write in-depth thought pieces that help you build a successful and exciting marketing strategy.
00:39:48
Speaker
Again, thank you so much for listening. I really look forward to sharing more with you in the future.