Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
☕️ "Scaling Sustainability Across a Global Coffee Empire" - Carina Needham from Julius Meinl
35 Plays3 days ago
Carina Needham is the Global Sustainability Director at Julius Meinl, one of the world’s oldest coffee roasters, founded in 1862. The brands premium coffees and teas are enjoyed in over 70 countries, reaching more than 50,000 hotels, restaurants, coffeehouses. Carina, who has been with the company for a decade, previously led the Global Marketing Department before taking on her current sustainability role. She began her career at Procter & Gamble, working in cities like Frankfurt, Geneva, and Vienna.
About the FutureStrategies podcast and Florian:
Hi, my name is Florian Schleicher I am a marketing strategist focussed on sustainability. Having worked with big corporates, NGOs, start-ups and agencies for over 15 years, I know my way around a lot of challenges. Let me help solve your challenges with my know-how and my Marketing Studio FUTURES.
Also: If you enjoy reading, be sure to check out my FutureStrategies newsletter. I write about marketing, strategies and sustainability available every three weeks and I am sure you will find a lot of exciting and helpful insights there.
And if you have a challenge that keeps you and your company from doing your best work and this challenge is about marketing, strategies or sustainability, then I’d love to get to know you and your projects!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction & Podcast Themes
00:00:00
Speaker
We want to bring Vienna's coffee house culture to the world and contribute to a better planet for future generations. It really is possible to have a net positive coffee one day. I think with the right choice, we can give back more than we take.
00:00:14
Speaker
Welcome to the future strategies podcast. My name is Florian Schleicher. I'm a marketing strategist focused on sustainability and I'm your host here. Every two weeks you can listen to my interviews with international experts and together we will explore where marketing strategies and sustainability intersect with great examples, insightful stories, and a look behind the scenes of some amazing brands. If you are curious how to apply all of that for your own business, I do this for my clients from all around the world through inspiring workshops, guiding mentoring, and an exciting on online academy. But more on that at the end of this episode.
Meet Karina Niedhelm: From Marketing to Sustainability
00:00:52
Speaker
Now let's jump into today's interview.
00:00:55
Speaker
My guest today is Karina Niedhelm. She is the Global Sustainability Director at Julius Meindl, one of the world's oldest coffee roasters, founded in 1862. The brand's premium coffees and teas are enjoyed in over 70 countries, reaching more than 50,000 hotels, restaurants, and coffee houses.
00:01:16
Speaker
Karina, who has been with the company for a decade now, previously also led the global marketing department before taking on her current sustainability role. She began her career at Procter & Gamble, working in cities like Frankfurt, Geneva, and now Vienna. Karina, it's such a pleasure to have you on the show today.
00:01:36
Speaker
Hi, Florian. I'm really honored to be here. I'm really excited. It's my first podcast, so thanks for the invitation. So you work for a coffee company. I would be curious, how many cups of coffee did you already have today? Actually, it was only a double espresso, like with milk, so like a portion-wise, a double espresso, and that's probably it. I also really love tea. So one or two coffees a day is probably my my normal dose.
00:02:04
Speaker
Yeah, I can very much relate to that. For me, it's green tea in the morning, then one cup of coffee in the even the afternoon to really push me, and then black tea, something like
Julius Meinl's Sustainability Journey
00:02:13
Speaker
that. Yes, yes. But coffee really is something that people love. I recently read a study also for a project that I did. Almost 75% of people consume coffee daily. 70% of coffee drinkers drink the first cup in the morning after getting up.
00:02:31
Speaker
And when you look at the Rihanna generation, also very interesting, 32% of Gen Z and Gen Y say that there is nothing like too much coffee at all. I guess that's good for us. yeah I mean, it's definitely a love product. Most people can't live without. so Yes, definitely. So for everyone who doesn't know the brand that you work for, can you give us a short description of Julius Meindl and your business?
00:02:55
Speaker
Sure, i mean I think you already mentioned the key points in the introduction. Julius Meindl has a very long history and can call itself one of the world's oldest coffee roasters. We are sourcing the coffee and then blending it and roasting it in our production plants in Vienna and Vicenza in Italy.
00:03:16
Speaker
And we are a trusted supplier ah to many um top coffee houses in Vienna and around the world. So we sell premium coffee as well as tea and different accessory products. We also give our customers coffee machines and to sugar and chocolate they might need. And yeah, we have more than 50,000 customers around the world, primarily in the so-called Horeca industry. So hotels, restaurants, cafes, but we also have a expanding number of retail clients around the world. Thank you very much. And as I mentioned at the beginning, you're a marketeer who then turned into sustainability expert. What made you shift gears and switch into this new role?
00:04:01
Speaker
I mean, I've always been interested in sustainability personally, but also professionally. And it wasn't actually more ah coincidence. you know I basically was responsible already for sustainability as part of my marketing role. So in previous years, we wrote our first sustainability report. In the marketing team in 2019, we have started our first projects in the coffee origins in Colombia.
00:04:28
Speaker
ah which was led by marketing. And um then after um six, seven years with Julius Meindl, I actually left for a bit because I had my first son and it was a maternity leave. I came back, I went out again, had my second son. And then when I came back, there was just this great opportunity because sustainability grew to be so important and so much more complex.
00:04:53
Speaker
that separate role was um created for this. And I was offered the opportunity. And I very happily took it because I've been in marketing then, yeah, more than 10 years, 12 years. And now it was just a great opportunity to learn something new and get really excited about that opportunity. Great. And you you mentioned it very briefly already. As we record this just a couple of weeks ago, you finished your latest sustainability report. Yes.
00:05:22
Speaker
How does it feel to have finished this one? Really good. It was ah hard work, as maybe many people that are listening can can understand very well. It's a complex project, a complex topic. It is already our four sustainability report, but over the years we have continuously expanded it, so we started with just two subsidiaries. So Italy and Austria, where we also produce our coffee, we expanded it to five subsidiaries. And now we said, okay, preparing for the upcoming CSAD, which makes us like mandatory reporting in 2026. We said, okay, um we need to improve, get better.
Aligning Sustainability with Business Goals
00:06:05
Speaker
So we kind of expanded the scope to 18 subsidiaries from five. oh
00:06:11
Speaker
And we also applied the new standards, the European Sustainability Reporting Standards. So it felt like a completely new new project. And I'm very happy that we did it because it is complex. It takes time to prepare. It takes time to get the right processes up and running. But then, yeah, you're also happy when it's done and you can already look forward to the next one.
00:06:37
Speaker
I can imagine how long of a process has it been to prepare this last one. We started probably a bit more than a year ago. And we have done our double materiality assessment to define our company's impact, opportunities, and risks related to sustainability. In parallel, we also started a tenure process for software, a software that helps us with the data the collection. Because as you can imagine, there is a lot of data to collect. And we used to do it in Excel.
00:07:10
Speaker
And when you have 18 countries to report data, that's not possible anymore. yeah It's you know creating a lot of mistakes. So we yeah look for a software that can help us with the data collection.
00:07:23
Speaker
And there we started with the implementation, the data collection. And I think it took us till mid-year because we had to get a lot of new people on board with the data collection, finished the data collection in summer, and in parallel obviously started with the writing. And in September it was finally done. We had our report, all the consolidated data, did all the graphics, and then obviously the last final feedback loops took a bit. So we released it finally one month ago.
00:07:52
Speaker
Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. So I had a look at your report and one of the things that really stood out to me is that you write how proud you also are of the progress and that the whole shifting into a more sustainable or becoming more sustainable would not have been possible without the commitment of the shareholders and of management.
00:08:13
Speaker
How did you start to get this commitment? Because what I see is that a lot of companies, they still struggle with implementing sustainability on an overall company strategy level. So how did you approach that?
00:08:27
Speaker
I mean, I think overall the shareholders and management have always been committed to the topic. But I think what has changed is to get more clarity on which role we want to play and you know what do we want to commit to. So when I started my role, that was really one of the key tasks to decide for us, what is our sustainability agenda? And I've developed the Sustainability Agenda 2030.
00:08:54
Speaker
to have a clear you know pillars on what we want to work on, what are our targets, and I think that clarity really helped to get everyone on board. We have also changed our company mission to basically also show our commitment of sustainability. And I think that was also a really important step to reach everyone in the company to make sustainability a priority.
00:09:24
Speaker
and tell everyone where where we want to go with it. And I have to say one thing that obviously also helps in a certain way is when it now also gets clearer and clearer how sustainability can help us in the way, for example, with our financing. I mean, financial institutions have sustainability really is a more and more important topic and I'm quite proud that we managed actually this year to do an ESG linked financing, which I think is quite kind of unique in the size of the company we are.
00:10:00
Speaker
what What is that what is for our listeners who don't know what ESG financing is? what What is that? Sure. so i mean In the end, everyone knows so company loans and um you can basically link the loan also with ESG KPIs, so ESG, Environmental, Social and Governance. and We have selected three KPIs that also perfectly link with our sustainability strategy. and We basically have put that commitment also in our financing. So if we achieve our goals, we also have a benefit with our financing conditions, with our margins. sir That's interesting. You also mentioned that it was important to get all the stakeholders involved and I can imagine that there are quite a bunch of different perspectives on sustainability probably because it also comes down to a personal level.
00:10:56
Speaker
apart from the role that people have, everybody brings with themselves, okay, my focus is I want to push numbers and sales department, of course, has much more pressure oftentimes than other departments. And then you come to them and you say, now you have to be more sustainable. What was your key on getting commitment from all of them when they might have different objectives or different points of view on a topic?
00:11:20
Speaker
I mean, I think that will always be the case, right? And there will always be conflicting targets. But I think key is partly to still try and figure out where could be the win-win situation.
00:11:32
Speaker
And yes, you mentioned sales, and sales has their targets. But I think more and more, the also our customers and consumers are much more um conscious of sustainability. And therefore, it can be really positive to talk about sustainability. And that ultimately helps them. So we had, I think, a rising number of tenders in the past year or two, where sustainability was a key topic.
00:12:00
Speaker
And sustainability will actually help our sales team to win a customer. yeah So I think that is obviously the perfect situation where then people starting to realize, okay, can actually help me to win my client. So I'm better listening.
00:12:17
Speaker
Yes, yeah, I find that it's a very interesting approach because in the end, you obviously know that being a marketeer and communications person, but it's always important to take the perspective of my customer. And in that case, your customer for the sustainability strategy is your sales manager. And you also need to understand, okay, what motives do they have?
00:12:37
Speaker
I want to talk a little bit also about your mission, because for those of our listeners who don't know it, we worked together a little bit last year and I felt honored to be a small part of this journey also, where the task was to integrate sustainability into your mission. Let's start with what is the current mission of Julius Meinl at the moment. So our current mission was to bring Vienna's coffee house culture to the world because we are deeply rooted in this Vienna coffee house culture. That's our DNA. We are from Vienna and we also see that as a big differentiator versus our mainly Italian competitors.
00:13:17
Speaker
yeah and For me, it was really important to get sustainability on that level of you know commitment that the company is acting on sustainability. so we said also Vienna Coffee House culture needs to stay there, right? We could not replace sustainability with it. So we found, I think, a really good way of adding our commitment to sustainability and still stay quite simple, because I would actually say this was one of the key challenges.
00:13:48
Speaker
that sustainability is such a complex topic. And there's so many different things you want to talk about, but it's impossible, right? It's a mission needs to be short and crisp and simple. And in the end, you could argue maybe we are too broad or too too simple, but I think it's also authentic that we kept it that simple in the end. And how it reads now is that we say we want to bring Vienna's coffeehouse culture to the world.
00:14:15
Speaker
and contribute to a better planet for future generations. and It's very simple, but that's ultimately we what we would like to contribute
Addressing Agricultural Emissions
00:14:25
Speaker
to. For us, it was really important to talk about the generations, as we are a family company in the fifth generation, and we also want to contribute to this better planet for future generations, especially also the coffee farmers. We have seen they struggle a lot to to pass on their family business because it's a very difficult business and the young generations are often interested in other topics, other jobs, and we want to do our part in supporting them so that they can pass on a successful family business to the next generation as well.
00:15:03
Speaker
I want to also touch upon a more complicated topic now because when I looked into your report, I found it very interesting that 95% of your total emissions are actually in scope three. Why is that the case?
00:15:19
Speaker
It is actually a very common picture. So if you look through many different companies that are, let's say, producing businesses, it's very common. So what is scope one, two, three, to make it very simple? I mean, our scope one and two is the emissions that we directly are responsible for so let's say the things we burn directly so in our case we roast our coffee with gas roasters so gas we burn we have a vehicle fleet our sales ah people etc and then we also have electricity or you know something used for heating um this is all scope one and two
00:16:03
Speaker
But the big part is then everything else, everything we buy upstream, downstream in our value chain or what we are responsible for. And the biggest share of emission comes actually from the coffee as being a food product and agricultural product. This asset is very, very common. To go in maybe a bit more detail with people then think, well, What are all these emissions in coffee business? What is it? Is it a big transport, you know, from the countries of origin? No, it's not. It's actually quite a small share. The big part is you need fertilizer. Fertilizer to obviously improve the yield, improve the production and fertilizer to cause quite a lot of emissions, unfortunately. So this is the biggest driver apart from then maybe also land use change.
00:16:54
Speaker
in the case of deforestation, and that could would also cause a lot of emissions. So this is also then where our projects come into place.
00:17:05
Speaker
where we are trying to reduce those emissions. Interesting. And is there any initiative that you did last year that you're especially proud of or super passionate about something where you really say, okay, this is my passion project or something that I really believe that will make a difference in the future?
00:17:26
Speaker
I mean, there's ah obviously quite a lot of projects and little things that we're doing, but I would say Passion Project is definitely our generations program. Our generations program we have actually created in 2018, when I was still in marketing, and it was called Colombian Heritage Project. And I was telling you already before about the issue that Colombian coffee farmers, very often really small holder farmers, they have one or two hectares um of coffee um land and the young generation just is not interested in taking over that business. So we started that project and in the first part we actually focused on agronomist training provided the farmers with coffee dryers so that they can actually improve
00:18:15
Speaker
income because more of the value chain of the production is in their farm. Therefore, they can ask for a higher coffee price. The agronomist training also helped them improve their yields with coffee farming. And all this ultimately helps to make a more successful business, which hopefully then also the younger generations are interested in.
00:18:38
Speaker
And now in 2023, we have actually started the second phase of the project. And it's um using actually soil health as generational legacy. So it's really about also here, improving the organic soil matter, helping the farmers to do that, because in the end, we really need to you know reduce this reliance on so synthetic fertilizer. I was telling you before that fertilizers are the key source of the emissions. So the farmers need to find different ways of improving soil health and also reducing the use of fertilizer that ultimately helps them to reduce costs, improve their income, and hopefully also improves their yields and yeah output.
00:19:27
Speaker
Yeah, I've heard this topic come up, I think 10 times this year. It's so important that we deal with that because that's really where our food is grown. And if we don't take care of the health of our soil, then that's also what we'll be eating and drinking. So I'm very glad that you're also looking into that and trying to reduce your emissions there.
Engaging in Sustainable Behavior Change
00:19:49
Speaker
I want to now switch more to the communicative part also of your role. And I want to ask you, maybe it's more of a philosophical question, but what we see is that it's really complicated to get people to not only care about sustainability, but to really act.
00:20:09
Speaker
There is this famous value action gap where everybody says, yes, of course, sustainability is such an important topic for me. It's very dear to my heart. Every manager talks to, they repeat these words basically. But then when it comes to action,
00:20:27
Speaker
both on a management level, but also on a consumer level. We see that people have much more urgent topics on their mind, where they say, but price is important for me and I want to have it in a convenient way. So in your point of view, what do you think we need in sustainability communications to bring about real change?
00:20:50
Speaker
I would say there's still a lot a lot to be done in terms of education because as you just mentioned it is such a complex topic and to be honest I mean I'm not working in that field and I would say I probably know more than average people because I'm just working on it daily and I still struggle myself in the supermarket every week. Is it not better to buy that glass packaging or aluminium tin What is it? and you know there There is no simple answer to that question. There isn't because it depends on so many factors and so many variables. so I think you know more education, giving consumers more easy choices and that they can act on will hopefully make a lot more people to act on it.
00:21:40
Speaker
And maybe also the education on how much this can impact because sometimes it feels so far away and the the changes on on climate, it it feels all sometimes very abstract. And I think and we had a lot you know in the news this year or the last years that hopefully wakes up more and more people.
00:22:04
Speaker
because I think the the changes are real. The changes are now almost tangible for a lot more people than it was 10 years ago. So I hope more people are just yeah getting motivated to be part of the change. And I think that is also an important one that, yes, everyone will just contribute a little bit, right? yeah Because we are not changing the world. We are not. But still, I think if everyone does their part,
00:22:31
Speaker
then I think the struggle feels much smaller. Yeah. And I also think that we really need, yes, we need information and education, but also we need emotions because what drives people's behavior is always feelings. And if they... Yes.
00:22:47
Speaker
If they are emotionally more attached to a more sustainable future, I think it's easier to get them also. like One of the things while I was working for Greenpeace that we figured out is whenever a person becomes a parent,
00:23:03
Speaker
they are much more sustainable because suddenly they have an attachment to this future that they will not be a part of. yeah And I think that's also a problem with sustainability. The past generations, maybe they also knew about this, some people, but for them it was like, yeah, it's not going to affect my lifetime. So why should I care?
Communicating Sustainability Effectively
00:23:22
Speaker
And I think one of the mistakes that we did was one, focus a lot on information and information doesn't really drive change of behavior for mainstream and also talking a lot about less. You have to consume less. You have to travel less. And this is not a very appealing argument for most people because we always want more. That's how we as humans work. We always want progress. So I think that's really important to bring information and emotion together and show how this new world, this more sustainable world can actually look like. absolutely I mean, I can fully relate to the point on you know having children makes you change or change more. And also the part about you know telling stories to to make it more emotional. But I have to say it's also getting more and more tricky there to go to not get into the trap of greenwashing. Because I think also we want to tell you know the farmer stories, the farmers we impact.
00:24:27
Speaker
And of course at the same time, we don't want to be you know accused of greenwashing just because we tell a story and make it with beautiful pictures. So I think that is just sometimes now in the sustainability field, the tricky balance between telling an emotional story, but you know keeping it to the facts and make it a real story and don't you know exaggerate.
00:24:53
Speaker
Yeah, I have one more question about your report that is also linked to communications. Because now you have prepared this extensive document that you worked almost a year on. What's going to happen with this report now? Are you also going to use it in communications? Do you pass it on to the marketing department, to your colleagues, and they will then put it into bits and pieces where they can also share the stories? What's going to happen there?
00:25:19
Speaker
Yes, I mean we're definitely going to going to use it and I think it brings also the whole topic of sustainability a lot more closer to the people. Because in the end it's you know a nice report and we put a lot of effort in it to make it also still nice and readable and then engaging. And I think it helps definitely our sales and marketing department to talk about you know what are we doing at Julius Meindl and to bring it across in an in an easy way. So it has been sent to our whole organization. It has been shared on our you know intranet. Some countries are um translating it. I mean, it's quite an extensive document, but some going you know the extra mile and translate it.
00:26:04
Speaker
And it's definitely important for you know customer acquisition and especially in the fields of big key accounts. Because ultimately the big customers, maybe hotel chains or retail clients, they they also work on their sustainability reports and they're especially interested in reading about what Julius Meidler is doing. Yeah, I just had an idea. When we started the process one and a half years ago now, roundabout, we had this work with everybody involved and they contributing. and And basically the story of the report is you get a lot of input from everybody. So maybe this could then be turned around. And now you have some kind of format where you actually explain parts of the report back to all those people.
00:26:51
Speaker
so that they can then say, oh, I would like to use this part because documents, when they are sent around, on and honestly, how many people are really looking through all these pages with important stuff. So maybe there is some kind of format that could be used to give it also back.
00:27:08
Speaker
Yeah, this is actually one of the projects for next year, because when we now go more into the you know official CSID reporting, it gets unfortunately in a really dry document. yeah So I feel actually a bit sorry about you know our report going in that direction. But I have to say it probably the one next year, which is then following all the EU standards, is not Interesting anymore for a broader group of stakeholders. So we are basically planning
00:27:43
Speaker
to now develop a second report, which is our Sustainability Impact Report, which is really for this target group of of our interested stakeholders. So be it our customers, our consumers, our business partners, because there we then have again more freedom in how we talk about our projects, our initiatives and make it in an easy language. I'm not sure this was necessarily the intention of the European Union to then create double and triple work, but this is just how it how it is. So this is the big project for next year. Interesting, interesting. Before we go to the final three questions, do you have any questions for me?
00:28:31
Speaker
Yeah, Florian, I mean, what what can you give us in kind of as tips how we can convince more people about making sustainable choices? I mean, I think that's the important question for us. How can we reach the people?
00:28:45
Speaker
So I did an experiment a couple of weeks ago where I looked at the most sustainable shoe brands. You can probably repeat it with any different product, but I looked at shoe brands and I looked at their websites. So just for the header section, these are the most sustainable shoe brands and none of them mentioned sustainability in their header.
00:29:10
Speaker
Only when you scroll down, you see a mention of sustainability. And and then I thought to myself, why why could that be the case? And my thesis, because this is this shows and on all of them, so there must be something behind it. And my thesis was, when you look at their websites, they are all super emotional and they show nice looking shoes, because I think that's what people actually want. I think 99, maybe 95% of people just want nice looking shoes.
00:29:38
Speaker
And then if they are also sustainable, great. So I think coming back to what I said before about emotions, I think sustainability per se will reach five, maybe 10% of people as an argument, but it's about what people really want. They want coffee that tastes amazing and that's easy to use and that gets delivered to their doorstep. So these are all the needs that people have. And then it's also important that it's sustainable.
00:30:04
Speaker
So I think in order to reach masses, which we need to bring about real change, we need to focus on what people really want and deliver that in a more sustainable way. But I think sustainability is an extra and that it won't win the hearts of the mainstream.
Future of Marketing & Sustainability Tips
00:30:24
Speaker
And that's what we need at the moment. Very good point. Thanks for your tips. Sure. All right. So moving to the last three questions.
00:30:32
Speaker
What is good marketing to you in three words? I think for me, good marketing is about being really engaging, inspiring, and then converting. I mean, I see that you know to myself when I scroll through social media, that if these things tick and ultimately they make me convert or try it at least, then they basically made it. Great. I like that. What is the future of marketing?
00:31:01
Speaker
Oh my God, I mean, it's such a fast paced world. So I really don't think that we can imagine today how marketing or the world will look like in 10 years from now. I mean, I think it's it's crazy how how fast things are changing and I think it will continue. I mean, I think things that will impact the future of marketing a lot will be AI, definitely personalization, hopefully sustainability and more ethical marketing.
00:31:31
Speaker
omnichannel experience. I mean, I think it's all blurring and I don't think you can separate these things so well in the future anymore. And it's a lot more data driven. I mean, the amount of data that we are collecting will be very interesting how this is shaping the future of marketing.
00:31:50
Speaker
Yeah. And also to your first point, AI, I think this will bring about a lot of changes. I just came home to my studio from a workshop that I hosted for a client about AI, how to use it in marketing. And we just, for two hours, we dove into imaging as ah a solution using mid journey.
00:32:11
Speaker
And just opening this door, it opens a whole new world. You can nowadays do animations, small videos. It's a lot of work. You have to know how to do it, but I think this will definitely change. And also, this has a huge impact also on a sustainable side because we're using huge data centers to power all our little experiments at the moment. So yeah, I think that will be quite ah an interesting challenge, how to bring those two together. Absolutely, yeah.
00:32:37
Speaker
Final question, is there a book that you would like to recommend here today? I haven't finished it yet, but I would definitely say Net Positive from Paul Polman because I really like the positivity of of the book because I mean, it says companies can achieve long-term success by creating positive impacts on people and the planet rather than merely maximizing short-term profits. And It's about giving back more to society and the environment than companies take. And I really like that thought and that approach that companies can do that. And I hope that yeah these are also the companies that are successful in the future. and
00:33:19
Speaker
I like that thought also so much you know for the coffee industry, thinking about it really is possible to have a net positive coffee one day, because there's so much potential and things to improve in the in the countries of origin, and there's so much to improve in the lives of the people that grow our coffee. I think with the right choice, we can give back more than we take.
00:33:44
Speaker
And I think that's very inspirational, so I can definitely recommend that book to everyone. Thank you for sharing. Karina, I usually only have three final questions, but I just thought about a fourth one. Sure. What is your recommendation for our listeners who want to say, I now want to drink my coffee more sustainable? What should they do? I would say definitely look look at the brands they're drinking and look for the brands that contribute to to a better a better planet i think it's possible i don't think it's so easy
Closing & Contact Information
00:34:19
Speaker
if you want an easy solution at least go for the famous certifications i think they can be a good guide but of course there's also much more if you look deeper behind the brands and what they're doing thank you that's very practical thank you so much karina for coming on the show for taking the time and sharing your insights on the reporting side and also the communicative part of sustainability thank you for the invitation flore thank you and i look forward to seeing you soon again see you thank you
00:34:51
Speaker
and that's it for today thank you so much for listening if you've enjoyed this episode please forward it to a friend or colleague this would mean the world to me as i pour my heart and a lot of energy into producing this podcast with all the brilliant minds but share their perspective here and if you are curious to use the huge potential of sustainability marketing for your own brand and you know the value that a great marketing strategy brings to really connect with your target audience give me a call or sent me a message
00:35:23
Speaker
i'd love to get to know you and your project you can find me on linkedin instagram tiktokk or through my new stats where i write in-depth thought pieces that help you build a successful and exciting marketing strategy again thank you so much for listening i really look forward to sharing more with you in the future