Transcript
Speaker: Hey, if you like this podcast, don't forget to subscribe. You can do that on any of your favorite platforms so that you don't miss a show. And please give us a rating. That just helps more people get access to what we're doing here.
Speaker: We were designed to hunger for the deep things of God, to thrive on faith and wonder, to seek out divine wisdom that defies human logic. We were designed to unlock the mysteries of God.
Speaker: This is Breathing Underwater.
Speaker: Heyo! Welcome back to Breathing Underwater. My name is Margo. I'm the host of the show. And we are starting a new summer series today called The Summer of Love.
Speaker: And yeah, it's summer. At least where I live. For some of you... June hits and it still doesn't quite feel like summer. You maybe still have kids in school, but where I live, we've already had a couple triple digit days and I don't really want to talk about that, but it definitely feels like summer has sprung. And here we are starting our summer series, the Summer of Love. This is actually...
Speaker: a title and a concept that I feel like God gave me. And I don't exactly know what to expect, but I know that we are going to go after, you guessed it, love and all things love related in dreams.
Speaker: I have definitely had love dreams where I'm experiencing an impartation of love. I've definitely had love dreams about my first love. I've definitely had people come to me ah but ah with dreams of about people that they're in love with And then God, of course, can express his love in so many different ways that we're going to explore that this summer.
Speaker: And I would say most obviously, really the point of all of this is love. The point of recognizing that God speaks to us, the point of God speaking to us, the point of trying to learn his language and and discerning his voice and deciphering his messages in earth and our night seasons is all because of love.
Speaker: It's all because we are the pearl of great price, the treasure in the field that Jesus saw buried in the ground and decided I'm going to sell everything for that treasure. We are so treasured.
Speaker: We can't even comprehend it. The depth and intensity and purity of the love that is consistently coming towards us from God is not something that we can understand or articulate.
Speaker: And yet dreams where we are recognizing messages from him in them is one small way that we can really consciously remind ourselves that that that's what this is all about.
Speaker: That these dreams that are coming from God are love letters. Even if the the imagery seems weird, even if the content isn't quite clear yet, this is all coming from the heart of a loving God, a loving father, a loving bridegroom who just wants to spend time with you.
Speaker: Who wants to walk in the cool of the day with you? Who wants you to know that he knows what's happening in your life? To answer the questions that you have? To give you discernment? To introduce himself even more clearly to you?
Speaker: So let's go on this journey together. I'm excited to see what God is going to show us. i already have ah some shows lined up for you, but there's still so much room for the Holy Spirit to break in and do something different.
Speaker: But today I am so excited to inaugurate this new season and this new series with a dear friend of mine, a fellow dream interpreter, a woman who hears God's voice in her dreams consistently and who has a very special experience and unique love story of her own.
Speaker: Okay, I am here with my friend Heather, who is a dear friend of mine and a veteran, I would say veteran, dream interpreter. Hi, Heather. Welcome. Hello. You may know her voice because she's been on the podcast before. This is not her first time.
Speaker: um Two years ago, we recorded a dream of hers called The Baby Factory, which was probably the most listened to episode, actually. i don't know if you knew that. well Yeah, because of the content of that dream, which if you have not listened to that, go back and listen to it. I think it was episode 14 of season one, something around there.
Speaker: But um we went into that totally blind. She showed up at my house with this dream. I hadn't read it before we pushed record. And we both just listened to the Holy Spirit and talked through process through symbols until the interpretation just disappeared.
Speaker: happened. It just dropped. And we were both astonished at how clearly God was speaking because some of that imagery was just kooky. There was a factory with babies being manufactured and people sleeping and alarms and drugs and ping pong table beds, all kinds of kooky things.
Speaker: But in the end, the interpretation was so powerful um that it has lasted ah long time and it impacted so many people. And But because of the interpretation of that dream and who I know Heather to be, i'm going to have her tell a little bit of her story today.
Speaker: and we're going to take that in lieu of this new summer series where we're talking about the love of God. Because the summer of love is what I want to call it. The love of God is the reason we have dreams.
Speaker: The reason that he speaks to us is because he loves us and he desires that intimacy. And I think all of us are desiring more intimacy in that. But there are so many ways that God pursues us in love and it can look so many different ways. It's not always romantic love, although I do think that there is romantic love with God too.
Speaker: um But just because I know Heather and her journey and how the very love of God has led you. to really know him and know love through this through this story.
Speaker: um I really wanted to to touch on that as well. So just quickly, if you don't mind popping back to the time of the baby factory in your mind, that was two years ago now, and you were right in the middle of ah saga, a story, I guess.
Speaker: um Can you share just a little bit of what that dream meant to you contextually with what was going on in your life? Absolutely. I actually just looked at the date that I had that dream.
Speaker: And even though it was two years ago that we did the podcast, um it was actually three years ago, almost exactly. and So I had it April 2nd, 2022. And that was actually a really significant time for me.
Speaker: um It was probably... maybe four days, um that i um, left an abusive marriage. Um, and,
Speaker: this is what God gave me. And, um, it, there had been a ah very long buildup, um, to that, to that point where Jesus just was pursuing me. He was pursuing me as the bridegroom pursues the bride and, um, just opening up song of songs and, um, just such a new and fresh way. even, um,
Speaker: even even just contrasting my experiences. um So for instance, he would give me dreams like and there was one that I...
Speaker: had a dream that I had made a big mistake. and instead of instead of getting angry at me, instead of telling me all that all the things I had done wrong or how terrible I was, he actually pulled me close and he kissed me.
Speaker: And it wasn't weird, um but instantly i woke up and I was in tears. And I remember thinking, what kind of of kindness is this? What kind of love is this that like actually pulls me close when I have have blown it?
Speaker: And um I just had this thought that everybody needs to experience this kind of kindness, this kindness that leads to repentance. And Um, and so, yeah, he was just overlaying my experiences with his truth. And, um, I actually believe, so our interpretation for a baby factory, it was all about marriage. Um, but it was about taking the promises of God into our own hands.
Speaker: And, um, so much of us like myself really long to get married, Um, and sometimes we are willing to compromise for that.
Speaker: And, um, so I just, um, yeah, it was really meaningful to me and my story and just unpacking it with the Lord and going through all of like the healing process of how did I get here?
Speaker: I also just have to say this day is super significant right now today. We're recording this on May 2025. Because we recorded Factory two years ago... because when we recorded baby factory two years ago
Speaker: Heather was terrified to even speak on the mic. We didn't even know what the dream was going to be about, but you did it. I did. You freaking did it. And it was so powerful. um And since then, God's been speaking to you about your voice. And you brought up a dream today when I saw you from last May 31st, exactly a year ago today.
Speaker: that was about breaking the silence and actually using your voice. And it's so significant that you're actually sharing this part of your story to today.
Speaker: Yeah. Yes, it is. Thank you. Thank you. And there's there's more. I'm going to ask you some more questions here, but it's such good context because the baby factory was –
Speaker: Such the sneaky love of God giving ah giving you a dream that was so veiled in kooky metaphor and pictures that ended up having the most profound and deeply affecting interpretation for yourself, but also for all of us who are waiting for a promise of God and who are tempted to take it into our own hands or make something happen and not trust God, not trust him to be that good. And all of us have made mistakes in this process, but just the romance of God to the way he's pursued you. I've watched this.
Speaker: The way that he has opened your eyes to what you deserve And what true love can look like specifically through his love and his way with you and the bravery that you have had to stand in um to break the silence and to actually step forward and make a...
Speaker: a crushing decision to actually leave a marriage, especially in the church. I think that is insanely brave. And so you even breaking the silence today in a way I know is going to ricochet um and bring freedom to so many people.
Speaker: And if you're okay with it, actually, just because we're dream nerds, will you would you share the dream you had May 31st last year that you titled Break it Yep, that's the title.
Speaker: Okay, so um it was positive. And yes, it was called Break It. And I was in a very large setting, like a dining room, with many tables and people sitting in groups.
Speaker: I was retelling a testimony to someone at my table. The day before, i had done something that I wasn't sure if I was actually allowed to do. but I was following the voice of God.
Speaker: I threw something against the wall and a pastor that I knew who was in a vegetable state in a wheelchair came alive and was able to eat and speak again after had thrown this thing against the wall.
Speaker: And you called it break it. who Will you give us interpretation? I mean, I think it kind of interprets itself, but how God spoke to you out of that. Yes. Um,
Speaker: I think, yeah, I think that it is, um, something that is actually really hard for me to do, um to, um
Speaker: to not protect myself. Um, self-protection is something that God is, is definitely dealing, uh, with me about. And, um, I am very aware the,
Speaker: v
Speaker: the different opinions about divorce in the church. And i so want to honor, um the Lord and honor his word. And, um, and I think there's a lot of fear that I have, um, that people will misunderstand or label me or not take time to understand. Yeah. What, what is going on here?
Speaker: But, um, Yeah, it felt like the dream um was more of like a church setting. Excuse me. Getting a little bit emotional is making my voice a little crazy.
Speaker: ah so um and so yeah, it definitely felt like a church setting, maybe even um um and gives me denominational, um different denominations And, um, it, it definitely felt like I was throwing something very precious, like an alabaster jar against the wall.
Speaker: Um, and that is, um, it definitely resonates with me that, um,
Speaker: Yeah, I care. I care about what people think. um I really love people and um I care what God thinks. And I know that there is a lot of um potentially controversial. um Yeah, it just breaks open a lot.
Speaker: and um But I know that it actually, interestingly, um this pastor was someone that was um played a role in silencing my voice.
Speaker: But the thing that actually made me the most excited was that he was the one that got free when I broke my jar. And so um breaking the silence looks like... um just telling my story, just telling it the way God gave it to me, um not being afraid of what other people think, because I know that it actually benefits not just um maybe people, other women and men who have been in abusive situations, but I actually believe it benefits both sides and it actually heals both sides and somehow it's bringing unity. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: So in the dream, this pastor who was in a vegetable state is actually someone you know, and he was a part of silencing your voice at one point in time.
Speaker: But in the dream, when you threw that thing against the wall and it broke, he woke up. He did. Yeah, not only did he wake up, but he was able to eat again and speak again. Yeah, so it seems like there's something there that, um yeah, that as a church that we, I don't know, an invitation to come into some some difficult topics that actually is going to it's going to bring life. It's going to bring healing. It's going to bring um any place that has been blocked or delayed. Yeah, it's going to be removed. Yeah.
Speaker: And I would say bring clarity too. I have found so much in my own story, which isn't with divorce, but as has some similar undertones.
Speaker: you Undertones. Has some similar undertones for sure. ah just And walking with you and and other friends who've who've walked through ah divorce from abusive relationships, like how interesting it is to see the the divide in the church of of what people what people think about that. And yet, um once clarity is brought, I think so often, or where discernment over an issue is named, I'm finding that people who didn't see it before actually did see it but didn't know what to call it. And so even just the naming of it and breaking the silence and talking about it is giving people language for, oh, wait, that's...
Speaker: abusive dynamic that I've also witnessed and like that's what that is oh and it's a part of yeah like you said like healing the whole and I think
Speaker: yeah a part of healing the whole how ah you you touched on this briefly at the beginning with the Song of Solomon and and how God was really wooing you through that book. But through this, the book of, yeah, Song of Solomon, but through this process, even, um there's been countless dreams that God has given you about this to help give you direction and discernment. And then of course, there's been a lot of challenging kind of warfare dreams as well, because you are absolutely breaking free from a spiritual dynamic that that doesn't want you to break free, right?
Speaker: And so, especially in the dream realm, for those of us who are dreamers, a lot of our attack can come in that space too. But I would love to hear a little of even just through these years, how God has continued to show you and lead you through love if you can think of examples or. Yeah, I would say, um, actually that he, there was such an overshadowing, um, which feels so much like love. I am a touch person and he knows each of our love languages and, um,
Speaker: Yeah, there was just such this overshadowing um before I really struggled a lot with anxiety. um and it was like all anxiety was smothered.
Speaker: And like I had this big, warm blanket over me all the time. Yeah, and I knew i could just lean into him.
Speaker: I could just even acknowledge that he was there and it would be like, um, Like that warm blanket would always be there, but it would almost feel like um like a waterfall over my head.
Speaker: and um yeah, and just even getting to hear his thoughts instead of like the condemning thoughts that I had before. um It was just so healing and so beautiful. um I'd have dreams that would expose
Speaker: dynamics that i I just felt so much confusion around. um One of them was he was showing that there were two ladies that were robbing my my house and um everything I own, it was like a garage sale, was in my driveway and the two ladies were just coming and stealing them Um, and I was trying to dial 911 and I wasn't able to get through to anyone. And that was a, um, a pretty consistent dynamic, um, looking for people to help me, um and, and even telling them what I was experiencing at home,
Speaker: But no one ever able to see it. And yeah strangely, it felt so affirming that God would give me a dream that would allow me to articulate what was going on.
Speaker: um in my life um and that it was not okay it's not okay for for two demons to come and and steal from my family and i and even in that one my um one of my sons was actually um cleaning up my driveway and taking things from the driveway into the backyard where they were safe and That was in the dream.
Speaker: That was in the dream. And even just um understanding too, he, he would play a lot of worship. He, he's such a worshiper and he would um choose to shift the atmosphere when things were hard.
Speaker: And um it was, it was exactly what was happening in the natural, getting to see it um through God's eyes. Yeah. um So I think just for the way that he was affirming, i wondered a lot like, wow, how am I the only person that can see this? And um i often felt like I was crazy. um Even the stories were, you know, I would have one experience and then there would be another account there'd be two different accounts and and um even just to reconcile that was really hard um but it it was so freeing when God gave me his account and what he sees and what um that that felt like such justice right like this is not okay I am not okay with this um and that he he had another way he had it a way out um
Speaker: I think this is one of my...
Speaker: one of my greatest lessons about the Lord and his character too. Like we read about his justice. We read about the foundation of his throne being righteousness and justice, you know, and I think it's easy to imagine, you know, what that looks like. And sometimes we wait a long time for justice to actually be done, but to feel the heart, the the heart of love,
Speaker: that is behind justice. I think it's his his holiness and his purity, but also his love that wants to bring about that kind of justice and the kind of love that would
Speaker: always vote for divorce over the abuse of one of his people. Like, I think this is something that is obviously so controversial, but we get so backwards. We we quote that scripture that God hates divorce. And and that is scripture. I am not saying saying that isn't true.
Speaker: And yet, does God hate divorce more than he hates abuse? Like, is he going to is he going to hold up a letter of the law of a covenant above his people being free.
Speaker: Really what God hates is anything that would hinder love. I remember someone saying that one time, like god will God wants to go after he hates and will go after anything that gets in the way of love, whatever that is, whether that's a wrong relationship or it's an addiction or it's a bad mindset or it's you know anything because he is so about connection and so about love. And so even in your story, I just see it so clearly, the love of God saying, no, I have so much more for you and you're worth so much more. And I want you to know.
Speaker: i know, um, when I struggled with that topic, I felt like he was, um, inviting me to actually sever those, those ties. Um, and I,
Speaker: was just reading the Bible and and just really seeking, God, I don't understand this. you're You're telling me something that is different than I understood. I mean, when I got married, when i got married it was it was for life. It wasn't something that i Um, took lightly. It wasn't something that, um, even like divorce wasn't something I would like a place I would go in my mind when things got hard. It was not, it was never an out.
Speaker: Um, and i no matter how bad it got, um, I was 100% committed. i just wanted, um I just wanted accountability. I wanted it to stop.
Speaker: Um, and I wanted, I wanted help. um But there there were a lot of opportunities um and it and it didn't. um And one thing that God gave me that really put my, i don't know, just brought me a lot of peace um as I saw a picture of, um, of a bird who had just been let out of a cage. And I had, I'd drawn some pretty, um, hard lines and, and had separated, um my kids and I were living, um, separately.
Speaker: And I felt like that was a good picture of, of me. I felt like I was out of the cage and ah my kids too. Um, but I had a, a red rope around my ankle and, um, knew that I could never actually be free, um, without severing, um, that red rope.
Speaker: And as I grappled with the Lord, he was just really, just simply reminded me of Galatians five, one,
Speaker: It's for freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm them then and do not allow yourselves to be burdened again by the yoke of slavery, which is, um I believe, now it's a little fuzzy, but I believe it's he's actually referring to um the religious spirit yeah in that.
Speaker: Yes. um Which is, i think, exactly what we've done sometimes with... um Christ rescue mission through divorce.
Speaker: Christ rescue mission through divorce. Ooh, I haven't heard you say that.
Speaker: One of my favorite phrases that you use that the Lord gave you was about, um, him divorcing his bride from, would you mind just sharing a little bit about that and then we can close.
Speaker: Absolutely. um
Speaker: I think sometimes when we talk about abuse, um what we don't talk about is what it looks like on the outside. and um it can look really saintly on the outside.
Speaker: and it can be very calculated um so that it it is accepted in church. It it passes and church. It can go undetected. even celebrated at times.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, because outwardly, it's shiny. And then behind closed doors, it's really different. And um for whatever reason, God's been relating it to me, this dynamic to gas.
Speaker: And um when you have a gas leak, it's invisible and you can't see it. um Some people can smell it. And I feel like that is kind of the hour that we're in, um that God is giving some people discernment, right? To smell, to see this thing that looks good on the outside is actually
Speaker: so violent and actually is wants death. Um, and I'm not talking about a person I'm talking about a spirit. Um, so yes, um, the, the phrase that God gave me is that he's divorcing his bride from cruel lovers and um ah definitely in my in my case I'm so grateful um the cost has been really high um but he is so worth it there's no one like him there's no one more beautiful no one more kind no more generous no one more loving
Speaker: And he's worth any cost. He's worth any price because he already paid it. Yeah. And so whether the cruel lover looks like addictions or or um ah critical spirit or whatever, it can take on so many different forms.
Speaker: And um yeah, he has he has paid the price and his blood is enough. Just like his blood is enough for divorce. His blood is enough for abuse.
Speaker: I think you so aptly
Speaker: said it that that's the hour that we're in. that God is on a mission to divorce his bride from cruel lovers. And I think we've already been seeing that.
Speaker: Sadly, sometimes what's being exposed in leadership or... um in relationships is not what we want to see, but is actually the just love and kindness, justice, kindness, and love of God two bring something out into the open so that people can get free.
Speaker: And I don't think God ever wants to expose a person. and there's usually probably a lot of op opportunities for someone to turn.
Speaker: But I think he's in the hour where he is divorcing his bride from from the false and is exposing the mixture and is exposing the places where idolatry has been allowed to reign inside the body because he longs to pour himself out and for him because he longs for a purified bride and he knows that exposing and breaking in and divorcing is actually what we need it's freedom it's that realignment into into truly knowing who he is i mean
Speaker: i find in myself still like these religious mindsets that I'm like, where in the heck did that come from? And they're are hard to discern in moments. And then I'll realize, wait a second, this feels like a cruel lover. This feels like I'm attributing this to God, but it's actually twisting and criticizing and making me feel shame shame And it's sometimes subtle. You know, it's sometimes just coming from inside my mind. Sometimes it's coming from people, but often it's just coming from the spirit realm, right?
Speaker: um Of course, people partner with the spirit realm. And so there has to be accountability on that as well. It's not like never never put responsibility on a person. That's not what we're saying. But having that discernment.
Speaker: being able to smell the gas, having our senses awakened to be able to recognize it just reminds me even of your dream with the guy who was in the wheelchair. And like, yeah he woke up, ah his senses were able to actually see clearly, right and wrong in the same way God woke up your senses in the same way he's doing it with all of us um in our own stories. But I just wanted to reiterate that this is a corporate thing I feel like that God is doing. And some of it literally looks like divorce. There's a lot actually of ah marriages that have been, it's it's time for them to be, you know, finally put to rest because people have put up with too much for too long um under the shroud of love and under the shroud of of religion and doing the right thing and sacrificing yourself. Yeah.
Speaker: ah But also, not just in marriages, he's doing this all over the place. So I'm just feeling such anointing as Heather speaks for freedom and for courage and for...
Speaker: breaking the silence like you did today. And so I just want to encourage anybody who is just feeling this, that God is pressing on a place maybe in your heart or in your life where he's he's asking you to separate in a relationship or he's asking you to walk away from ah job or he's asking you to...
Speaker: Put distance with a family member. Maybe there's a move. Maybe there's, I don't don't know exactly how he's leading you, but I'm just aware that so many of us are um in this kind of deliverance moment. And so I just want to encourage you wherever you are that he's so...
Speaker: in love with you, that his prerogative is freedom. That is why he has set us free is for freedom so that you will know him truly as a lover.
Speaker: And it's so easy for it to feel really scary to want to to separate from that thing or to finally speak up about something that's going on. It can feel so terrifying and the enemy loves to come in and just ah accuse us that, oh, you're making that up. Oh, that's not really real. Or are you sure that's what God said?
Speaker: But I just want to reiterate, that is what he said. If your heart is pound pounding right now, if you just feel like, i can't believe I just came across this podcast, if you are resonating with this or even maybe wanting to to run and hide, i just want to encourage you, don't do it.
Speaker: Don't run and hide. Don't stay silent. Actually, just engage with the Lord and he will lead you. He will lead you and into freedom, whatever that looks like. And you're not alone.
Speaker: And I just want to have you pray over us, have kind of like you did last time to close, if that's okay. Thank you so much for speaking up today, for breaking a silence of sorts and for sharing your pearls and your wisdom.
Speaker: Yeah. And your intimacy. ah She just flashed me her ring, which is a big old pearl. Yeah. yeah Yeah, absolutely. Actually, um hopefully it's okay that I say this. always i One thing that I forgot to mention is that one thing that kept the abuse cycle going over and over and over it was the religious spirit. And that is just that I need to...
Speaker: keep dying. I just need to, you know, death to myself, um, and just come lower and lower. And I didn't understand this tension in scripture that yes, Jesus does to say to turn the other cheek, but Jesus also, overturns tables.
Speaker: So just wanted to mention that. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: oh Yeah, God, I just thank you. thank you that you are ah so good at leading um us out of Egypt. You are so experienced in that you set the captives free.
Speaker: and God, I thank you. i i just ask that you would do it like you did it for me. God, it was a waltz. It a one, two, three. One, two, three. One, two, three.
Speaker: It looked like one step at a time and not a chessboard, not not figuring everything out and then moving, but ah ah completely yielding to you a complete trust.
Speaker: Your hands in in our hands, that you're the one that leads the dance. Yeah, so God, I just ask that in any area that people need deliverance, that they need breakthrough, that they need freedom, God, I pray that it would look like intimacy, it would look like that you wooing their hearts and you leading them one step at a time into freedom. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker: ah Just keep hearing the the beat of the waltz, the one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three. So simple, so easy, and so...
Speaker: So close to Jesus. Yeah. Thank you, God. You've already done it. Jesus name. Amen.
Speaker: Thanks, Heather. Love you. Love you too.
