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Episode 229: We're 6 Years Old!! HOW?
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Welcome back to the Goblin Lore Podcast and the celebration of 6 years of doing this show (first episode was posted 6/18/2018 but we had to re-record it after we lost it... so we'd TECHNICALLY been around...). The goblins gather to celebrate 6 years for the podcast and to talk about what the cast stands for and the major recurring themes that permeate the show. Along with this they provide some episode recommendations for those different topics.
We also finally have a Linktree with all of our discounts/resources
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As promised, we keep Mental Health Links available every episode. But For general Mental Health the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) has great resources for people struggling with mental health concerns as well as their families. We also want to draw attention to this article on stigma from NAMI's site.
If you’re thinking about suicide or just need someone to talk to right now, you can get support from any of the resources below.
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 988
- Veteran's can Press 1 at anytime to be taken to the Veteran's Line
- Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741-741
- International suicide hotlines: A comprehensive resource list for people outside the US.
- IMAlive: Click Chat Now to access a live online network of volunteers through instant messaging.
- TrevorLifeline, TrevorChat, and TrevorText (LGBTQ+ crisis support): 1-866-488-7386, or text “Trevor” to 1-202-304-1200
- Trans Lifeline (US): (877) 565-8860
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Opening and closing music by Wintergatan (@wintergatan). Logo art by Steven Raffael (@SteveRaffle)
Transcript
00:00:09
Speaker
are
00:00:29
Speaker
Hello, Podwalkers, and welcome to a very special episode of the Goblin Lore Podcast. I say it a lot. A lot of episodes are special, but this is this is a very special episode. We'll start with all all the hosts are here. All three of us are here, which is great. Yay. Yay. Consistently for a while, basically. Yes. For for a little while. um Might as well. It's summer. Yeah, but it's summer, so we're we are going to have some intermittent this because things happen. But it's great we you were all able to get together this week. um Because we are celebrating the podcast sixth anniversary, which is wild. our Our podcast can basically drink at this point. Yeah, we are rapidly approaching the limit to which goblins can count.
00:01:18
Speaker
it's kind of scaring me right now. um So is, the there we go. say So is the fact that I somehow lost one of the things that I'd written out my Google Doc for this episode, but I found it. Uh, more good news going, um, well, I guess six episodes, uh, six years, like I said, so I'm going to introduce myself before I continue to ramble. Then I will resume the rambling. My name is Alex phoned on Twitter at Mel underscore chronicler. My pronouns are he him. Uh, and our topic for, for this episode is just the show, I guess, uh, we, yeah we.
00:01:52
Speaker
Whenever we hit these these episodes or you know these annual milestones, it's great. We love to so do something special. In some years, we have other things planned. In some years, like this year, it's kind of just more of a retrospective. We want to talk a little bit about the show itself, have some episode recommendations, and kind of talk about what we do. um I like to say one thing I like to try to keep in mind is any episode can be a person's new first episode. And so especially when we've got this many years behind us, this many episodes, we're over 200 episodes at this point, it's it's new people are, it's hard to figure out what to listen to going backwards if if folks are interested in trying to go backwards. So we had some some recommendations from our backlog that we think fit well with the themes and the things that we care about and the things that we talk about.
00:02:40
Speaker
um But before we get into all of that, let me finish my introduction so that my co-hosts can actually introduce themselves as well. ah So we have an opening question. I just decided with sixth anniversary, it felt kind of appropriate to just talk about a card with six CMCs. So I'm going to talk about a card with no controversy whatsoever. Ugin the Ineffable, who is a Plantswalker for six, and I'm just kidding. i'm i'm I'm shocked. Hobbs must have muted himself. Hobbs heard the word Ugin and had to, it's a family friendly cast overall and Hobbs had to mute himself to stop from swearing when he heard Ugin.
00:03:20
Speaker
And ineffable? Ineffable? Okay. He's very ineffable. yeah Legitimately, I have the card in in my Kozalik tech, but that's not the card I wanted to talk about. I just wanted it to see what reaction i I'd get out of Hobbs. Urza's Armor. It's the card I want to talk about. Much older card. A six-man artifact that I should have pulled up like a professional, but it the text basically means whenever a source deals damage to you, ah it deals one less damage to you.
00:03:51
Speaker
I believe this is the first time they ever printed. Such a bargain for six mana. Oh yes, absolutely. I feel like you picked this card just because it's Urza and you love Urza that much. There's there's that whole thing where we talk about how Urza is the worst. That also is a theme of our podcast. Urza is the worst, which oddly I didn't get in the cast topics. That's unfortunate. It was an oversight, I apologize. But um I actually legitimately love this card. I don't play it much now, but when I was in high school, this was a very important card in my Pestilitz deck. Oh, right. Yeah. Which, if you're also familiar with that other very old card, it works very well with that card, which is just, was it black? Is it a chamet that I think for black mana does one damage to every creature and player?
00:04:39
Speaker
well big even if you put more in because each one is a single source, Urza's armor prevents it all. And so it was a deck just full of those effects. Speaking of Urza being the worst, the flavor text on the eighth edition one is fantastic. Absolutely. Do you want to read that? Yeah. It's Urza protected his body well, but neglected his soul. Yes. That's right. That's also part of what I wanted to talk about. yeah And I forgot to pull up the image. So thank you. And he's wearing power armor. I i like when the, you know, we had sci-fi and magic before we had universes beyond. People forget about mechs. Yeah, we had this. high I still am waiting for a vehicle Titan engine. One of these modern horizon or commander legends that has to have a vehicle Titan engine in it. That would be so good. Is it just ah is the card just. ah Just void void has the met yeah void has the arc for a Titan engine on it. Yeah, I was. Yeah, but there's two others too vehicle that can only be proved by planeswalkers.
00:05:45
Speaker
Yes, that would be perfect.
00:05:50
Speaker
All right. Well, Taya, do you want to introduce yourself? Sure. Taya, pronouns of she, her, they, them. You can find the Taya transcends on Blue Sky. And my um card will not come as to a surprise as anyone who's listened to the Dready episode ah would know is Wormcoil Engine, which is one of my favorite cards of all time. It's six mana for six, six ah that dies and gives you two, three, three. So everything adds up to six on this card. It's a great pick for this episode as well. But ah yeah, um you know, I've
00:06:28
Speaker
I love shenanigans with Wormcoil Engine. I love reanimating it. I love sacrificing it and doing it all over again. I was on the Praters for Change stream this weekend, and I didn't have one in my deck, but I was playing on my Wormcoil playmat, which I thought was appropriate for a Phyrexian event. That is very appropriate. Yeah, but yeah so definitely my favorite six drop of all time. So this I'm Hobbs Q. Nice to meet you all ah pronouns are he him. I can still be found on Twitter, bravely turning the lights on and off every day ah and under Hobbs Q and pretty much everywhere on the internet under Hobbs Q. And it turns out there are 10 goblins with CMC six. 10 of them. It's above or aren't six. So my favorite of these is, of course, muxus. Oh, yeah.
00:07:25
Speaker
because we got muxus and jumpstart muxus is actually multiple goblins in a trench coat. Literally, they take turns being muxus for the day. And it's allowing me on this family friendly pod to say you just don't fuck us with muxus. Because gee that's that's not really a swear. It's just a statement. And it's kind of a pun. So, you know, if there was something that like checked our cast, it would probably get through. So That's my goblin answer. And now for my serious answer is the card Time Spiral from Urza Saga, a very fair magic card for two blue and four colorless. You get to give everybody a new hand. Everybody shuffles their hand and graveyard into their library for six mana.
00:08:12
Speaker
You know, Wheel of Fortune was very busted and unfair at three, and so was Time Twister at three. So Wizards decided when they hit kind of this Ursus block that they would really correct a lot of their past mistakes. Oh wait, hang on, sorry. There's a little bit more text on this. You uncap up to six lands. Ah, so I get that mana back. Okay. Oh, this is way better. It's a free Time Twister that costs the $4,000 less than an actual Time Twister. Yeah, yeah, that's that's very fair, right? Okay, so I just like other options and I get my mana back and files itself so you can't abuse it like other wheels by recasting them. It it is true. ah It can be fun if you're really looking to if you've got a little extra mana and you're looking to just you don't necessarily care about
00:09:01
Speaker
ah It is a fun spell to copy because you get multiple untaps in between each untap. You can also cast then any instance or search. So you could keep going. There are ways to be able to keep doing it. At least instance. You wouldn't be able to cast search for this without some other effect. But you would get multiple untaps so you could actually stack up mana. It's a lot you can do with it. The card is busted. I mean, it's a good card. Even as a fair time twister or wheel, it still is $100 because... All of the untapped spells are kind of broken and you can abuse them all. Yeah. Yeah. And I was going to say that we had to do it, you know, like ah when Alex posed this question ah in the the the Discord, I did have to think for a while because I'm just not used to really counting to six mana. Like, that's a lot.
00:09:56
Speaker
i just can I topped out at 5 for most things I was thinking. I can't believe you didn't pick Bolas of Citadel though. oh Well, you know, I don't know if I've ever actually cast a Bolas of Citadel. Oh, it feels so good. It does. um You have all the power just like Bolas wishes he had. a very good mail postcard then. You'll damage yourself to be able to cast things just off top of your library because who wants things on top of your library? not yeah Who wants free draws and free spells? you know yeah
00:10:30
Speaker
yeah
00:10:34
Speaker
I did have one more I wanted to to shout out um because of six, feel it feels appropriate. I found this card while looking through a list of CMC six cards. ah The card Hex. Oh yeah, Hex was an awesome card. Four black, black for a sorcery that has four words in its text box. Destroy six target creatures. Yeah. That's fair. And then great flavor text. When killing five, this isn't enough. Yeah. They like to put that in commander pre-cons for a while. It used to show up. Yes. Yeah. And and it's it's a lot, but also one one fun little downside to this that you have to keep in mind is it doesn't say up to six. No. It says specifically six. Yep.
00:11:18
Speaker
ye Yeah. um And then we also just got in modern horizon three. We just got six. So. Oh. Yeah. Which cost three manners. Yeah. Really confusing. Yeah. which You could have picked the sixth doctor, which does cost six. Oh. So that was a known option that was a good option. Yeah. But as a three three, come on.
00:11:47
Speaker
It's hard to imagine the doctor is a 6'6". That's fair. All right. So is say as I kind of mentioned, our topic is kind of the show itself. Um, kind of the the idea we had for, for this one was again, being our, being our sixth anniversary, the show has been running for awhile. That'd be fun just to kind of in our own words, the three of us kind of say, here's the things that we feel cast is kind of about. Here's the major topics we talk about and here's some good episodes to go listen to. If you want to hear more from us on these particular topics. Uh, so I threw a list together to, I guess I can start with the first one. We can kind of talk around that and then maybe we.
00:12:27
Speaker
Kind of figure out the structure from there. We can even talk about it directly. We don't have to talk yeah around it. We can talk direct. That's the thing we're known for. It is. That is the thing we're known for. So the the first topic I wrote down, and I i think this this feels natural for all of us in any longtime listener, especially now. It's June. We just came out of May. But done mental health. we we Mental health topics are a big part of what what we do in the show. It's not going to be every episode, though, in May. That's kind of what we try to do. So we intend to do. Sometimes we don't always hit it, but that's where we, we aim Hobbs to die, work around the word, try there well enough for you. You didn't, but I was going to let it go for once, but I actually, I'm glad that you caught it. Right. You know, i think youre that's the goal is if you catch it yourself, Alex.
00:13:11
Speaker
So starting with, the we've got a bunch, like I say, every May, that's, that's kind of what we do. um And even beyond that, I mean, this even beyond that, we, yeah made intentional yeahp we talk about this May is our intentional, ah like hit the topics hard ah for like four weeks in a row, really aiming it, attempting to get out for episodes, we don't always do it. And we we hit a lot of, but we have a lot of mental health topics that pop up, kind of, through wow and and throughout the year. and and And actually, as we go through, at least for for my list, there's some mental health topics that fit in with some of these other categories as well. Like I said, it's a thing that it's not every episode for us, but it is a core part of what we want to do, what we want to talk about. So the first episode I hit down that just felt like a good place to start was episode 187, which was our panel for MagicCon.
00:14:08
Speaker
That was the same one I was going to name. Yeah, it just it feels like a good place to start. like Not only all three of us are on there, um but also we had two of our most frequent guests, Michelle Rapp and Chase, who are both wonderful people who've been on the show a lot um at different times. And that was such a fun time to do that. And fortunately, we were able to get it recorded. And then we could post it on the feed, so anyone who wants to go back and re-listen to it or just didn't get a chance to come out to Minneapolis for for that convention last year, um can still go back. Go to 187 and listen to that.
00:14:48
Speaker
well ah tad do you need some time now since I'm going to go with one that's just tangentially related to mental health. And that was our episode with Gavin on March Gladness. Yeah. ah here I really enjoyed that episode and just talking about things that bring joy, ah which is, a you know, a whole month long thing that Gavin runs every year. And it's so much fun to participate in that.
00:15:16
Speaker
I'm going to cheat. There's no way that I could pick one. That's that's another core turn into four podcasts. Yeah. that's yeah presenting This was the topic that there was no way I could narrow it. Um, so I'm cheating by choosing one character. And that character is calm. Oh, thought you were going to say Gideon, but it's just as mentioned. Yeah. Oh, wait. yeah Actually, no, I it it is Gideon. yeah Hang on. It's Carn and Gideon. I was funny because I was just thinking that I wanted to combine our episodes where we actually discussed very directly about suicidal ideation.
00:15:56
Speaker
Um, with chase, uh, that was a long time ago. That was back in 2019. Those were episodes 47 and 48. Uh, and they were on to talk about passive suicidal ideation. And I realized halfway through my like cheating that that was actually about Gideon. yes for the most part it was not about uh karn however we did have three parts on karn um and it was called karn in the time of cholera which was still one of my favorite uh episode titles ah for dive done which is um episode 85 and then i think 94 the
00:16:37
Speaker
it's It gets confusing because there was an act of nature that interrupted the recording. And then we weren't able to get back together to record, but basically Alex and I were under like tornado warning with sirens going off. yeah Um, and so we had to break it up, but I think that those to me were not during mental health month, but they were very direct conversations about both depression. and suicide. And I think that those are two topics that are very difficult to hit on and and Karn and then Gideon.
00:17:09
Speaker
of course, are two of our best examples for most things in Magic, because Karn is our canonically just sad robot. I mean, he's our canonically depressed robot. the the The actual story text calls out him being depressed in the text. It's not just like reading into characters actions and intentions, which some of these characters, their actions scream pretty loud. But for Karn, like it was in the text, Karn was depressed. Yes. Yeah, like it's direct. We also we also talked about car in Episode 192 about guilt. We did. I talked about car a few times. I think we talked about car recently, too. That's why I was like, I know I have used car multiple times as examples to bring them up all the time. I bring carnival. Yeah. So that was my big cheat was to just basically bring up car every time we talk about car. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah.
00:18:05
Speaker
Um, I mean, we were talking about car during the panel. So yeah, bit yeah. So, so why cheating is car? I'm done cheating for the night. No, no, I'm not. And then another little extra shout out because I like to just throw extra stuff in the two. Um, episode one 89 was, uh, one where, uh, Tay and I talk about joy during mental health board this month. Um, and then Hobbs recorded, uh, some at the end too. which according to, i did do I do just want to say this too, I have the other episode. um It's been long enough, I can't remember exactly what was talked about, but it does say in our notes that Hobb's section is at it at the end, also has a content warning around grief. So just give that a heads up. But that was... That's another good one. 146 grief with Ryan Sainio. Yes. On talking Felbin.
00:18:56
Speaker
That's right. It was Felden. Felden. That was, yeah yeah this is one that at one point I did have a list of all the numbered ones that were ah specific to that. And I will probably, I saw Alex, you highlighted a lot of the maze. maybe when I was going to go through and highlight the ones that are not not just tangentially, but directly because tangentially we mentioned mental health a ton. And there's a lot of others that I would harken back to. Yeah, that that would be helpful. i yeah Just a little a little ah behind the curtain peak, so the ones I highlighted, I did this last month in May when we were kind of talk doing an overview talking about mental health stuff. And so I was like, let's go back and help myself and and the cast members by highlighting all the May ones at least to have those mental health episodes highlighted. But yeah, it's it's a thing that comes up a bunch. That's why i I wanted to lead off off with that.
00:19:53
Speaker
um Do either of you have anything more on that topic or I I am going to I can already tell you I have some stuff that's going to come back to mental health. That's fair, because I say that. And then the next topic, my episode is a crossover between the two. So I'll just stay the top the next topic. of our episodes are That's fair. So the the next topic I have done is is social justice. like This is important stuff for for us to talk about, just just various topics about communities and and different um social justice topics. And then the episode I have written down was 186 where we talked about the Trevor Project and we talked to Nicholas Turton from the Trevor Project to talk about a lot of the work that they do
00:20:39
Speaker
This was during May, so it definitely has a lot of mental health stuff, but it also talks about the Trevor Project, which is a lot of LGBTQ youth. Warm line, is that the terminology that they use? I think they use warm line. That's kind of the the move is to move away from like to like helpline, warm line away from like crisis idea. Yeah, so to kind of talk a conversation with Nicholas about that the the project is as a whole and and just some of those those types of topics. um and And especially where a lot of things like mental health can cross over into things that other communities are dealing with that folks in the cis that white community don't always see.
00:21:23
Speaker
I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be self-referential here and go with my first episode, episode 115, which was when I came on to talk about autism and Narset. Yep, yes. So yeah, it's hard to believe it's been that long since my first appearance on the show, but then I was also doing, I was just doing the math, looking at this list and I have been on 26% of the episodes now. So it doesn't feel like it's been that long, but Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I guess, next years I've seen this, uh, but I, I have a few little, like I specifically put a line right above the episode where you you know, a few, I have a few other little, little things like that too, where there's been some transition things, yeah like the yellow highlighted episode when COVID started.
00:22:15
Speaker
Yeah, um things like what that was for I was wondering I saw the yellow one. It was like, herage when lockdown started our first episode went out after lockdown. Social Anxiety and Magic Fest, which is episode 67. And actually, that my my Social Justice episode um is interesting because, ah so we we had done some, I think, really early on. um So, you know, if people don't, like, we had really talked a lot about these when it came to um
00:22:46
Speaker
you know I think some of the stuff that that Joe, so who had also been on the the the cast to begin with, really wanted to focus on some community issues, and had talked a lot about things like, even just education, um there were some about, you know I think, Philsoft. He just really had kind of that interest, um is ah like where to go from here. um and yeah However, when he had left the show, we ended up,
00:23:16
Speaker
shortly at the beginning of 2022 being down to just Alex and I getting a 2020 2020 2020. Yes. All right. Yes. And we went from there into lockdown. And then within Minneapolis, Minnesota, we went into kind of the the summer of of really ah George Floyd, um which, you know, what was less than a mile from my house. And we Alex and I sat down and talked about this idea of like, we want to be able to feature voices that are not necessarily like ours, especially in the aftermath of that. And there was a lot of people that were doing it. And I think that
00:23:53
Speaker
We really cared about the fact that like, it made sense for us to have guests on and didn't just reach out to people to just be like a token type thing, you know, where it was like, ah, this is what we should be doing. We had a conversation about the importance and the need that we wanted to focus a lot more after that point of making sure that we were being intentional and so The two episodes I want to point to our episodes 676 and 77 with the Quan Watson and it is the Quan did come on and talk about basically being a black player in in magic and and and a black person in the like magic and
00:24:36
Speaker
both content creation sphere as well as just gaming in general. of I've heard him speak at some panels. like they were They were on the panel right after us at Minneapolis. He was on um ah ah talking about kind of when he used to like run a game store and he would go to events and people would just not, you know like back in like the ninety s or late 90s, early 2000s, and you know he would just be the only person in the room that was of color. And I think that that was the first time that we had really ah said like we need to be talking more about this stuff in an intentional way whether it be LGBTQ, whether it be um ah like I said being race, whatever it was that we needed to be more intentional and so to that those two really stand out to me.
00:25:28
Speaker
and And just to, I'd say a little, and this isn't social justice specifically, but Daquan Watson actually came back a couple years later, and it i I wasn't on those episodes, and this was before Taya Jones, it was just you, Hobbs, and Daquan. You did two episodes with him talking about content creation. Yeah, creatively. And those were, if if anyone's interested, That was a really good conversation. He is very, very on like plugged into that stuff. That's a thing he cares about this. I think he's very knowledgeable about to Daquan. That was a really good episodes and he was a good person to start paying attention to outside of just when he was on our show as well.
00:26:09
Speaker
Yeah, um the color of magic is his podcast. um It's very good. And yeah, this is he jokes on the episode that we had a two parter on this. And this is the stuff he gives away for free. Like he helps people like he actually does like paid consulting on content creation. And just the stuff he talked about with the intentionality. Once again, that word is coming up a lot. And it was like our word of the year that year. I feel like 2022. In particular, we've really talked a lot about that. And that episode with him talking about how to actually create creative content. and And how to think critically about how you want to approach it to he wasn't just like, here's how you make it. He wanted it all he's like, if you want to be, you know, you got to do the work, you got to do the work out it. Yeah, think about what you want to do with it. Like, where do you want to go with this and start there. And then you can do the work to build in a direction.
00:27:01
Speaker
it was It was a really good listen.
00:27:07
Speaker
So that's how I hit social justice. Those were the ones that really had stood out to me. And there was a lot, but once again, there was a lot of other good ones. It's hard for me to narrow down. Yeah, we can we could mention a lot for these categories. The next one I had written down is is psychographics, which are kind of, it's just to give a very quick overview, if you're not familiar familiar with this, these are basically, I describe them as like player profiles. They're there are different ways that people sort of engage with games or enjoy games, kind kind of coming from a couple of different angles. um We talk about them a little bit.
00:27:47
Speaker
then like as a whole, um I think our most recent episode on that, the one I've written down was 217. It was an episode where Tay and I talk about player profiles and games. And so that point of that one was to kind of give an overview on the psychographics and then talk about applying those to games that aren't magic. um Originally Mark, like at least it sort of introduced to the community, mark wrote was Mark Rosewater, the head designer of magic sort of said, well, here's ways, like sort of types of players that we've identified And this helps us to figure out how to make cards, because we want to make cards to serve all these different types of players.
00:28:24
Speaker
So we have a couple of episodes talking about that in the context of magic a little bit. um We go more specifically into a few of those, which we'll kind of get into later. Do either of you have an episode on this? I did. This was this was a once again, these were back in 2020. So this, you know, four years ago, 89 and 90 was about player psychographics with personality tests. And we talked about this idea. of categorical versus dimensional approaches. So we we were talking about things like the MMPI, or like how people use. ah So like the big point that I made was, you know, that that psychographics don't need to be categorical, even though that's how they historically have been treated, that they have a approach to them, that they they aren't like an either or or along one line, but you could be, you know,
00:29:13
Speaker
you could actually rate yourself on all the dimensions like I am I am higher when it comes to like being a spike like a tournament player people don't know and I am very low on this domain like the uh what is it the um Timmy, Tammy, Johnny, Jimmy yeah like one of the other those domains or even we we talk later about Melthos or Mel and Vorthos which are two other characteristics that we're going to talk a lot more about. And that was actually one of Taya's other episodes right before she joined the show, full time was talking about Malthos, which is our favorite. Yes.
00:29:50
Speaker
Yeah, that one, that two-parter where we talked about like ways to look at those as not just categories, but dimensions. And we tied that into personality testing and how personally you can actually be useful and not just horoscopic in nature. Yeah. And that was, oh, how did I, how did I phrase it? I think it was like, it can, they can be helpful if they're, if you're using them sort of. If they're proively are descriptive, but not. Yeah. as oppos It says, well, you fit in this box, so you have to be like this. That's prescribing that you are that. And that is not helpful and can be harmful potentially. um I think, at least for me, I found help. I found sometimes those can be helpful on the other side where it goes, this sounds like me. And that helps you to understand something about yourself that you may not have crystallized into a specific like sentence that you can kind of say, I am like this. You just kind of always felt that, but now you have that descriptor to help.
00:30:46
Speaker
I think going back and like, it even looks like that the first time, uh, this really, um, gets discussed is all the way back in episode five, talking about legendary role in flavor, uh, and worth those covers. So, you know, it's. I want to revisit that topic so much. Yes. What does it mean to be a legend? Yeah. Yeah. The legendary rule, the changes of those over the years, right? Yeah, because that was an episode I missed. So that was just Hobbs and Joe. Yep. And we were going to do a panel on it. Yes, Ryan Sainio, because ah one of the local cons here in Minneapolis had ah had the theme for the year was legendary. Yeah, that was
00:31:34
Speaker
Yes, yeah can you guess what year that was? If you have a hint, it starts with 20 and it ends with 20. We need to revisit that. We do. We'll put that on the list. We do need to come back to that. um Yeah, and so as as I kind of said, there going on from psychic graphics, there's there's two others. So we we kind of mentioned Johnny, Jenny, Timmy, Tammy, and Spike are kind of three different ways to kind of enjoy the game, interact with the game itself. But then there's two others, which are Vorthos and Mel, which are more about like,
00:32:09
Speaker
other ways to kind of enjoy the game and not just the game itself. Yeah, is it kind of like the rose water kind of called them like the aesthetics? Aesthetics, that's right. I was trying to come up with the term. Yeah, these are the aesthetics. And so Vorthos is more story centric, well, not more story, like it is about the story. And there's lots of dynamics there. These, both of these we talk about a lot. We have a bunch of episodes that are Vorthos, we have a bunch that are Mel, We also have a bunch that are melphos, as Haves alluded to, which we can kind of get into it in in order. But I had Vorthos first on the list. We want to talk about some Vorthos episodes. ah I had Holidays in the Multiverse, which was um one of the first episodes we did with you, Teo, when you joined. In fact, if I recall correctly, this was your idea. Yeah. Yeah, that was ah that was a fun um discussion.
00:33:03
Speaker
yeah Episode 170, if I didn't say that. Yeah. Yeah, that that was fun. Kind of talking about different holidays that might be celebrated on different planes within sort of the magic universe. So mine, I would say that this counts. I have a couple of them. Great great way to start. Well, so so a lot of this to me is I'm going to cheat again by saying that there is a plane that is very ripe, I think, for this show. And that is Ravnica. Yes, we go to Ravnica a lot. The guild structure and just the nature of Ravnica when it comes to even things like the concept of revolution, which is something that I harped on a lot ah when we kind of write prior to actually having the more of the
00:33:48
Speaker
the the skirmish of the spark. the kfuffle of the starling yeah um But it was a goblin games which were kind of ways that we did a little bit of um just like ah they were supposed to be shorter kind of fun episodes at the beginning that we talked about but there there are two of them that stood out which was ah and these were Joe and I actually on both of these so this is episode 29. ah ah Which was career day on Ravnica where people that's right careers that they did for a life and then we looked at ways that they ah um Would fit into the Ravnica build structure. Yeah, and then the other one was episode 35 and these were
00:34:27
Speaker
Uh, this was the episode on coffee. So yes we took the, the flavor text from experimental frenzy and we talked about how the RAB, the, ra the Ravnican supply chains and how every guild would have been involved at some level with the coffee structure. And I kind of liked those like fun takes on, on like. Uh, just like looking at a a real world topic and then applying it to magic and how we can go from there. Um, you know, it's kind of one of those things. It's kind of an interesting thing because we've done a lot. I mean, we have a strong Vortos element because we're talking about characters for a lot of our show, you know, like you could go down the list. G asym toxic masculinity, right? Yeah. We said garden depression, kraken rambling. Oh, we did that. workish why multiple times. Oh, that was a fun topic. But I mean, like, there's so many of these because like, that's the lens in some ways that we oftentimes frame our things under. So I actually kind of like I mean, it's in our name. It's Yeah, more. It's a card too. If you don't know people. Yeah.
00:35:40
Speaker
Yeah, I do have one other one I wanted to talk about, um and some of this is just... Taya hasn't done that. Yeah, go for it. I'm going to do a collective thing here. and yeah For me, it's all of it's all of our interviews with the authors. Yes. Because then you get really down into the vorthos, and you get to talk to them, you get to talk about where the ideas came from. yeah We've had Seanan on the podcast multiple times now. Uh, we had chaos and Rivera on multiple times. Reinhardt on multiple times. Right. My, my personal favorite is a little bit of a bias. This was a summer when Alex, I know had to miss quite a bit, uh, was getting to talk to Dan Sheehan about. Yeah. That was flying where I joined, but that was, that was a great episode. Yeah. Yeah. Right. At the beginning of actually getting squeeze story.
00:36:35
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And not specifically an author. Well, I guess an author, kind of, and not a fiction author so much, but Jay and Ellie is involved in a lot of the writing, the the yeah the lore and the story ah behind the scenes. So, yeah, I mean, we've had a lot of orthos guests on the cast, and yeah it's just been great hearing that behind the scenes, how the story comes together and you know, getting to really dive into the story bits with them. Even like the comic, right? Like, yeah, wasn't the first time with Sean and about Nahiri? Yes. Yeah, off of the comic book, like a one shot. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was cool. I actually had that kind of on with this to talk about at some point, not for one of these topics. But if
00:37:20
Speaker
the conversation with there. So I'm glad you brought that up. Because yeah, it wasn't just like so many different authors. I mean, and honestly, the artists to kind of fits that forward. Because it's the story. It's the art. It's the flavor. It's not had any artists on lately. We need to fix it. It's it's been a little while. But we yeah had, we've had a number, um which is about the artists now to because that was the one i gar i Yeah, yeah. um if i so Just talk about it right now. Yeah, like I didn't even see if this was a category. But it made me think about it it had been quite a while. um Yeah, cuz I get started with we had an atom pocket on for four episodes. No, for it did not 40 40 44 45 it started prior to that Titus Lunter all way three episodes with Titus Lunter and Titus
00:38:10
Speaker
literally talked about the current GP structure and how it was not good to artists. And how like, I mean, it shortly after that, I believe there was like, a boycott of GPS and some by by some artists, yeah, around some of the stuff that that titan had brought up. So I mean, like, Titus has went way deeper than art. And in some ways, like he he went from there to like we we ended up with three from him. And then you said like four from Adam Paquette, because we ended up getting deep into like art theory with Adam.
00:38:41
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Which, which was a lot of fun. And also episode 21 with Titus is what started me making weird flippant titles in our document that don't make it to the public. But, uh, I enjoy just to to share this one for the first episode with Titus Linter. I wrote concept pushes for sets, which he talks about in that, that particular has a lot of world building. Yep. Cause he does a lot of world building. and then i put and statistically insignificant amounts of spiders and ravddaka that is something that that is a topic that actually comes up in the show i can't remember why but somewhere and he says the phrase statistically insignificant amounts of spiders or something along that line is also the reason why i like wrap put that in there.
00:39:25
Speaker
yeah um So, yeah, I think you're right. ta I don't think we've had a artist on with a little while with you. No, not. so Yeah. So we thousand ah it turns out preview card ah of ours breaches. that I now have the original art tube by Michael Walsh. Michael Walsh would like to come on the show. so That would be great. That would be sweet. We have that. ah Before we move on from the artist one, I really need to call out. I told you I'd be finding ways to bring it back to mental health. Oh, yeah. Episodes 128 and 129 with Anthony Waters. So you're still probably my favorite episodes of all time.
00:40:04
Speaker
Yeah, ah so people don't know Anthony Waters is a very old school kind of magic artist. um I mean, he's had some reprints, but hasn't done anything for magic in in in. I think I looked I think it was time spiral I want to say I feel like it may have been time spiral block that he had new art um but he did things like diabolic visions he has done some just gorgeous pieces to the the graven cairns from future site that was one of the ones I remember like just it's it's such almost like surreal art to it he did the car from the ah
00:40:39
Speaker
a Vanguard set oh Yeah, he did a bunch of these like and he did like his his Ursa's forests are very striking He's he's done some amazing artwork Well, you know he we had reached out to him to kind of you know we had We had talked to him about kind of just his just his art and we got talking and he mentioned wanting to come on the show um and he wanted to talk about like mental health and kind of how it impacts and artists, right? Like the impact of of, of mental health on artists and how that kind of just isn't talked about within the field. And that was kind of what he gave Alex and I as a, like, prior um to coming on and we, we we that's a two parter because we started talking to him and about
00:41:25
Speaker
around an hour in and this is kind of be a content warning for for suicide. Um, he basically tells Alex and I that his father had killed himself and was a ah veteran and, you know, his art was how he just, you know, how he dealt with his father's death and trying to find meaning. in in his father's suicide. He actually wrote a whole book, which um I was fortunate enough to go to a um ah command fest, one of the first command fests in Richmond. And he was there and I got to actually hang out with him in person. And he had brought me a copy of that book. But that is, to me, still one of the most powerful episodes when it comes to that topic.
00:42:07
Speaker
um Yeah, so I just I had been thinking about that one. And I was like, I got to make sure that I get this one in and in in somewhere else so I can cheat and not use it for my mental health episode. Yep. Mm hmm. That's when i I didn't write down because I knew you had that one. I'm like, I knew you were going to cover that one, which is great because it's it was such a good episode. And it's it's like I said, it such looks like his last start was a Lara, which is like, oh, sorry, ryan or 14 years ago now. Yeah.
00:42:38
Speaker
And like I said, I know there were some reprints cause I got some, uh, I think I got, I remember getting a, um, something that I got a proof of, but but just, I got one more month throughout for Vorthos. Um, and sort of on okay So this this is one that i just i I planned for a little while and I'm i'm really happy with how this episode turned out. This is episode 126 talking about the heroic sacrifice. um This was a thing kind of from our previous episodes where we talked about Gideon, we talked about some other characters. I kind of had this idea in my head about
00:43:10
Speaker
just the pervasiveness of that type, that story within our society and kind of how a trope in some ways, a trope. Yeah. And just kind of how yeah I was starting to feel about how, how quickly it's like, well, then the hero will just die and then everything will be solved and it's fine. And it's like, but then we don't examine kind of what's, what's happening there. And so we'll say a trigger warning for that, that episode, that episode also has, includes conversations around suicide. That's a kind of part of this idea of the heroic sacrifice. um But that that was a show with Hobbs and myself, but were also Chase and Reinhardt, which was a lot of fun to bring a lot of expertise between Chase and yourself, Hobbs, in and the mental health field to so to to some degree, and then also bring in a lot of like writing experience. I have a little bit myself, but like Reinhardt.
00:43:59
Speaker
who's who's a writer, has written for magic, I can't remember if he had written at that point in time, but has done a lot of writing himself, and to kind of talk about it from a writing standpoint as a trope, and to talk about it kind of from that mental health standpoint. I just really love that episode. All right, well, moving along from there, like Will said, we have the Mel stuff, too, that we've talked about. That's more where Vertos is story and world and flavor. Mel is mechanical, like just a- Wait! Wait a second. Yeah. Your name is Mel underscore chronicler on. Wait, no. Have I ever actually, I'm not sure if I've ever actually explained that I changed it like several years ago, I was trying to find a new Twitter handle, because I don't know. Mine was just some derivation of my name. And I was like, I should just have an actual like handle.
00:44:47
Speaker
And so, yeah, that's where I was trying to come up with a way to just do Malthos, but Malthos was already taken. And so Mel was a very good representation of Mel, and I felt chronicler is kind of a more poetic version of someone related to Story or Vorthos. And so that's where my Twitter handle came from. Because there's a lot of Melville stuff that I've been involved in, which we can talk about in in a little bit. I think our specific Mel episodes, there isn't a ton, because we tend to talk more about Vortho stuff or Mel-tho stuff. Mel tends to come into the conversation when we're talking about Melville stuff, sort of this this good blend, which we can get into. We had a lot of good episodes there. But for Mel, I did grab an episode of Topic I really want to get back to, but all the way back, Hobbs, you remember episode 64?
00:45:38
Speaker
the episode number memorized in my head. So yeah, yeah, back when we talked about names and design space and magic and I love this episode. Actually, I think I really I think it's a great episode that we posted that episode in early 2020. So it's due for every revisit and I'd love to help. It's awesome. It's also, there's been some interesting, I feel like, ah I wonder if there's been changes or developments from where we were. Oh, yeah. and And yeah, part of that was, there's a whole thing like names, once they name a card, like hex, they can't print another card with that name anymore. That card, that name is used up. They can reprint that card, but they can't print a new card. And that's why it's so rare you get one name.
00:46:27
Speaker
names, the cards. We even have the joke, right? Like from the onset, there's a a race, not the Urza saga version. Yes. Yes. And so it's just a, it's a fascinating idea that like, this is a thing you don't think of that is a limited resource for them. And this was kind of was much closer to Kaladesh than we are now. When did Kaladesh come out? A while ago. 2016? Something like that. Someone in that range. But so there are some sets. I think we've had a few of those. Kaladesh was one. You had Battlebond were both sets that had really cool, flavorful names that really only fit those worlds.
00:47:06
Speaker
And so i that's a pattern that they started to really push towards, I say recently, but you know in the last decade or so probably, or maybe a little more than that, but also more and more. Outlaws of Thunder Junction is a great example. There's a lot of newer sets where it's like they they make these cards that are very cool and flavorful, but also very specifically themed to that world. Because as soon as you use that name, it's gone. You can't make a new name a new card with that same name. yeah We need to revisit this because even though and this is where it gets into interesting Yeah, yeah ah so we talked about the Gavin's unknown event cards. Yes, and they have done things with punctuation. So it's the same name But with like a comma in it. Yeah
00:47:54
Speaker
Okay, so they use that for some spells that they wanted to make like so spells that had commander and it would be I'm trying to think of what the one it's not explosive vegetation, but it's something like that it would be like explosive comma vegetation, right? um But they did some of that where it was just like they added some grammar test and that's you know, Which, you know, that might be another episode. We did our, I can't remember what this was called, but I wrote it facetiously in our notes as the silver-bordered episode. 204.
00:48:29
Speaker
was one where we talk about onsets, holiday cards, Gavin's unknown event, that sort of thing. the um What's the mystery booster play test cards? Play test cards, yeah. So that's another one that's that's kind of a Mel. We talk about those sort of mechanically and how that fits into the game in a different way. Do either of you have anything else from Mel? No, I was going to say I really enjoyed the alternate card episodes. I highly recommend people listen to that one if they haven't. Right. Well, I guess we just jump into mythos, which feels like the main event for, for of these two, for sure. um I mean, we we mentioned it earlier, episode 137.
00:49:11
Speaker
which i had to go I went and tried to find the name that Hobbs gave these when, or ah Joe, you go far enough back, when they were actually posted. And so this one is Malthos, I hardly know those. yup yeah is This is one case where the goofy name is is the public facing one and not whatever I put in here, which is just really bland and just like Malthos with Taya, which is this perfectly descriptive, but a lot less fun. There we kind of talk about the topic as a whole and just explain what that means to be Malthus. Yeah. Which is a lot of fun. Which is a lot of fun, right? Like thinking of just where where flavor and story like really intertwine. And we've done that with some of our episodes talking about like specific like legendary cards where there's a lot to do with
00:49:59
Speaker
You know, I mean, even Taya's example in some ways of, um, worm coils engines, like the sixes throughout, I think could be tied. If you could find a way to tie it into the storyline or the sixth doctor being a six man, a card, right? Like there's, there's function along with yeah some sort of flavor. And Alex and I found a lot of these in the run horizons three, um, oh, nice episode we just had. There was so many melt those cards in that set. Yeah. Yeah, and and I'm so glad like you could have like flavor text and stuff, which I wasn't really looking at. But that and ended up being I we talked about like, I know I brought like two or three cards I was gonna put in decks. But for the most part, we weren't even talking about what our cards were gonna play. We were talking about what are fun and interesting cards, flavorfully or mechanically, or both, both. Yeah. And nice intersection I think this is a really good example of the
00:50:49
Speaker
Um, it doesn't have to be one or the other that you can kind of, you don't need to approach the game. Even if you enjoy aesthetics more than play, you can still be doing that from both a mechanic standpoint, as well as and the flavor and those, those can overlap. Yeah, and that's a place too where like one of the reasons I love to talk about this is it's it's not just that like it overlaps a little bit, it's that it creates a new dimension from which to enjoy the game. That's why I broke these three up. For me, Vorthos, Mel, and Melthos are three related but separate categories. yep yeah One other one I wanted to throw out was episode 177, shifting the colors of us.
00:51:30
Speaker
which was a topic I wanted to talk about for years and struggled to figure out how to describe it. yes This was basically talking about legendary cards that you of creatures that can't get us get a new printing or like a new card that is different colors and talking about the story and the mechanics that intersect, because they there is sometimes cards get colors because of design, where they need a green-black card to fill this hole in the set. But sometimes they get colors because of the story, and that was such a fun conversation. That was a really fun conversation. And hilariously, we hit it recently, not even, well, indirectly, we hit it in our preview episode for Outlaws of Thunder Junction. That's right, yes. Because we talked about breaches and Malcolm both moving from mono-colored legends
00:52:22
Speaker
into picking up the other ah the other character's color as a secondary color. e And also on top of that, the way their mechanics were meant to show how they would work together. So even though they didn't have partner with because they're in an outlaw set, or, you know, like in ah a normal set, a booster set, you know, the it was kind of this idea that, you know, they both carry on second card being, or second spell being cast, and Breeches wants you to sacrifice an artifact to get an effect, and um ah Malcolm creates those artifacts when you create, cast your second spell to turn. Botanic life partners yeah who have the first six years of ah Loot's life sketched out for babysitting duties.
00:53:11
Speaker
yeah That was did did do either of you remember the sitcom from the 90s news radio that I bring up every so often? Yeah, I love that show. Yeah, that was that was a ah bit I think of a lot where where radio show kind of self absorbed jerk, Bill McNeil decided he was going to adopt a kid without actually like starting any of the process and having any idea what it means. Any of that, he just declared that to the whole office, you know, I feel I'm important enough, I'm gonna adopt a kid. And then like his sycophant in the office,
00:53:43
Speaker
created a sign up sheet for babysitting duties and like handed it to a different characters like, according to this, you're babysitting every free day for the first 13 years of this child's life. It was first come per serve and he just walks away. I love that show. Sorry, weird aside, but that's what we're about. Tay, did you have anything else? for this topic? No. Okay. yeah um So one other one, this is a topic we haven't talked about a ton recently, but goals and planning is a thing that we have kind of come back to periodically throughout our our six years. And this is one where I'm gonna do a little bit of a weird, ank I'm not gonna call it a cheat, but I'm gonna say that I'm zigging when you would expect me to zag, or maybe zogging to go back to another news radio reference. Episode 145, I just realized I don't know what episode, what the name,
00:54:33
Speaker
see keep It really funny. This is sure you'll get it right now. Yeah, this is where I expected you to go. Well, yeah, of course. This this is just this is um I think this is called a rote run in the goblins ros on the goblins goblins with the goblins. Yeah, that's exactly what you titled it. ah This is an episode where hubs and I did an interview with Irfan, who is the person who created the Road Runner, which is the planner that he and I talk about every so often. And I think I mentioned it in one of our recent episodes, too, that I kind of have gone back and started using it again recently. i i I really like this thing. I don't use it consistently. But when I'm using it, I i get a lot of use out of it that I really like. And this was super fascinating because it was just super fun. It was a weird
00:55:19
Speaker
weird goat experience because just on their webpage, I was just ordering a book. I'm like, I'm just going to order the next one of these planners that I'm going to use, but they have like a contact us thing. And so I just put it in there like, Hey, we do this, you know, the show, we do mental health of events. I think this is a little bit before May. would you mind donating some that we can give away at these charity events that we do? And then he not only did like someone get back to us, but the creator got back to us and said, Yeah, I'll send you some. ah You want me to come on your show? And it's like, yes, yes, we would like that. And it was a really fun episode. We've got like half of our guests reach out and people like Oh, so what about coming on? And we're like, okay. like Um,
00:56:02
Speaker
I like the, you know, going back, I think it's episode 87 talking about scale goals when Hobbs was talking about why Bullis wipes the floor with the gatewatch because they didn't plan anything. I'm just gonna say, both my episodes about scales, ah which I believe is a scale. I think i I want to say that I hopefully made a scale of a dragon joke. But I did that one and I did, the scale is problem solving and I did smart goals with Nicol Bolas. Right. Smart goals. That was the one I'd say. Yeah, the smart goals. Called dragons are smart. Yes. You want to know what?
00:56:39
Speaker
yeah You go ahead and I'll give the title of episode 87. You called it scale the mountains of the prison realm. we go about goal There we go. go. Yeah, so 38 was smart goals. 38, yeah. dr Dragons are smart, um which i I did mention that the Gatewatch sucked it. Such a bad plan. Yeah. They're such bad planners. You're right, Ted. That was the episode where I talk about like the Gatewatch. Bolas outplanned them. They did not plan. They it's they just showed up on Amonkhet and expected to beat Bolas. Yes. And then they like come up with the stupidest play like we're going to go get the black plate and that's going to work. They have no contingencies. They have no plans. They just go in impulsively, but they're the good guys. Right. So they win. They're very poor role models on planning or goal setting. I just want to say that.
00:57:37
Speaker
yeah Yes. Yeah. I remember that episode fondly. That's a great call out. Yeah. I didn't scroll back enough to find the actual episode, but yeah, that was the smart goals one, ah which I was actually writing some smart goals today for um some work stuff. but
00:57:59
Speaker
It's funny. Those were the, those were the two episodes I was going to make it. I was going to go straight down the ball's pathway. so okay Right. Well, I think the the next category then. I just had like writing on the story craft sort of things. Obviously we've... I think we hit that. Well, we had like writers, but there was talking about writers and some of that was talking about how to build the stories, but we've had some specific episodes just about story writing, which I suppose is a thing, again, that we haven't hit as often. And now we hit that more kind of when we talk to writers now. This was before we really had too many writers on. One episode I did want to mention,
00:58:42
Speaker
that I feel like you sort of referenced, tobbs but we've been going through so many things. Maybe you didn't. This was episode 78. Who put science in our fiction is your title. Well, we talked about, we talked about, uh, met suits and ursa. Yes. That's right. Yes. And so that was, uh, with, with my friend, right. I think that was the first, that might've been the first episode. He was on with us and talk about, magic and sci-fi and how that could fit in magic and how it's kind of always been there. I just, I really enjoyed that episode.
00:59:18
Speaker
well probably covered there then, so we can go on to the next one I put down, which is color pie stuff, which is kind of a Vorthos thing. I thought you were gonna write color pie? Question mark? Question mark? Yeah, I mean, it kind of fits under Vorthos, but I wanted to call it out as its own thing because we've done so many of these on their own. A lot of this is related to food and stuff like that. A lot of it is related to food. Yeah, and so still sort of on the food topic, but slightly, ah and ancillary to that or to the side of that near it close, but not quite the same thing was episode 75. Come drink to the guilds. That is the episode where I suggest that law aid might be a drink that exists on Africa, where you have to pass ah like a sample test for the bar to in order to drink your beverage that the Azorius might enjoy.
01:00:11
Speaker
Uh, so on top of all the food ones, and I think we talked about recently that we want to revisit that. And I, yes you know, especially, sure which, because we actually, that's been a whole series where we, we developed a continuing ongoing. Theory and that's why we need to go back to them is because we need to see where the color pie of food even stands at this point and Also, what I've loved is that these episodes have really helped me think it because we talked about not only color pie of food and how different categories whether it be breakfast food or sauces or Thanksgiving meal, I don't there's been a bunch pies pies Yeah i pi ah yeah
01:00:54
Speaker
But we talked about there's even differences if we're talking about the ingredients versus the way that they're prepared like the the preparation. I want to say this the first dive into color pie theory using something outside of magic and this is also ah I would love for us to even explore this more again. ah was episode eight and nine with Michelle Rapp. She was the very first guest on the show and it was to talk about this idea of different types of movements within art and literature and how they would relate to things, how they would relate to the color pie and how they would relate to the colors of magic.
01:01:35
Speaker
yeah That is also the episode where we very first come up with the idea of the Shamble Sharks versus the Weird in um our version of West Side Story set on Ravnica. That still needs to be done. It still needs to be done. And that's like, that's six years ago. Yeah, I think Michelle has her hands full right now, though. and yeah Yeah, I don't think she has time to write a play. ah Then but one other category, I guess we have one after this, but the penultimate category. And a good excuse for me to to bust out the word penultimate, which I haven't had lately. Such a good word. Oh, it's one of my favorites. ah Magic, I just put, and this is just a weird, but like, I feel like this sort of fits. I put magic community guests slash interviews. i I was making this list hastily during lunch today. um But one thing,
01:02:29
Speaker
I have for this. I mean, and and we've talked about artists and the the authors and the writers who've come on, and that's that's been great. And I kind of fit that in my head that kind of fit in this bucket, but those fit much better sort of in the worthos, though, of course, a lot of the stuff crossovers and hits multiples. But I put another fairly recent episode that I i missed was episode 219, parents play magic? Question mark. I want to make sure that if you didn't hear that in my voice, there was a question mark in the title. ah That was an episode with with you two and Michelle talking about being parents and engaging with the game still, you know, and dealing with parent things and trying to engage with your your hobby, which was a lot of fun to listen to. I said, I wasn't there. So that was one that I got to listen to, which was fun. Yeah, that was a fun episode to record. Always loved talking to Michelle.
01:03:26
Speaker
it did either of you have other episodes in this category we kind of already hit it for you all i think we hit most the ones that i wanted to talk about we talked about a lot of our interview um episodes already the last one that i am going to shout out here is that when we finally got to get together with ah spice. a Yes. yeah I'm so bummed that happened before I joined because shortly before. Yeah, you won they are they are amazing. Yeah. Yeah. yeah it's It was a great conversation with spice and that I wanted to call out inside. I'm sorry, Hobbs. I'm jumping on
01:04:07
Speaker
yours but i wanted to mention the the whole reference to the battle of the spark the not quite war of the spark not quite war of the spark the kerfuffle that of the yeah that was a spicy it brought that up in one of our episodes like this past weekend or is it like 12 hours or something less than 12 hours that the war of the spark lasted like that's not a war like people many people didn't even know this would happen basically yeah on the plane Um, that was the let the spice eight rack flow parts one, two and three. And that one is funny because, uh, it is in England.
01:04:41
Speaker
And it was ready to keep recording with Alex and I, but we it went for like three hours. yeah And we intentionally actually stopped recording and re-recorded, which we have never done. And kept acting like we had just started a new interview. like so much Yeah, we we were so much more organized for that. Like we have a lot of interviews that go into multiple episodes just because we talked to them for so long and then we had to kind of like break it up. This particular conversation with Spice, we very specifically broke at different points and it kind of felt like we were real podcasters. see but It was really funny. and We kept making Spice come up with like the question. That's right. bye return Thanks for being a returning guest to the show. Do you have a question?
01:05:30
Speaker
it was absolutely hilarious. Yeah, that was a good time. They are so entertaining. They are one of the easiest people I've ever talked to. Yes. And I think one of our most listened to episodes is the first episode. And if you love two hour plus videos, you know, that's the channel to go watch them on. Yeah, Spice 8 Rack. Yeah, like spicy Iraq and Rhystic Studies. Like if I'm ever gonna suggest long form to anybody, that would that would be it. spices videos are so well researched as ours as our Sam's. But ah spice just really
01:06:10
Speaker
It's it's it's funny because recently people have once again, and this is always one of my favorite category of people express shock at um how like quote unquote um radical they that Spice has quote unquote become like they're expressing shock that it is supporting like Palestine and like all of these things. And it's like, did you ever watch a single video that Spice put out? Yeah. like Yeah, that's the... It's like any matter of raising a machine for getting political. Yeah, that's the example that I was thinking of. It's like their politics aren't subtext in their songs. They are the text and it's similar with Spice. It's the text of its videos.
01:06:58
Speaker
All right, well, we had just one category, which ah ah somehow I missed from my initial list, but we have ah Goblin Profiles. It's another thing that we've done a lot. We are, as our name suggests, we are the Goblin Lore podcast um that has become a a big part of the identity of the show. It has, from the very beginning, the the whole concept of goblins and the community. And that's a thing that sort of, Hobbs and I have talked about a little bit for ourselves, at least, when we started the show. six years ago we took the name because it was kind of kind of a fun name um and kind of fit what what we wanted to do.
01:07:32
Speaker
But sort of that goblin identity was not there right away, at least for for me. No. and And so it's that sort of the community focus of goblins, especially as of late when, and again, I say as of late, but I mean like in the last 10 years, that magic has been trying to focus on cards that aren't just about combat, aren't just about aggressive things, which of course the game is about combat. And so that's where the focus is going to lay. but They've been doing more and more cards, and Red has become more about community any emotions and and goblins have kind of gotten some so better and better representation. I mean, Lorwyn had some good view of goblins as not just the mindless hordes of the villains, but that has shown up more and more.
01:08:15
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, we get like Wart. So like, I think that's always like a really good example. Like, Lorwyn gave us that to kind of juxtapose a Wart in one area or one domain is like the auntie and the other she's still the Wart mother. And um which was a nice contrast to the racist elves. Yes. And a little ironically, that is a, have we done an episode on Wart? We have not done an episode on Wart. That's, that's the thing I'm going to write down on this dot random word document we need to do.
01:08:46
Speaker
And, but about ones that we have done, Ward is a great example of of some of that stuff with with Magic, that's a great call-out. But um to talk about some of the Goblin profiles that you know that we have done, was our our very first one was Slowbat, right? Uh, no, our very first one was Franco. And he was a mob boss in the style of like the godfather or a mob boss in the style of the Joker. That's right. that all back up Yeah. but
01:09:19
Speaker
yeah So yeah, that was fairly early on. Cranko problematic mob goblin. i't know that One that Joe gave fat. Oh, Yeah, I don't know. I'm i'm not the Cranko apologist here. And we most recently discussed Cranko with Seanan just a couple of months ago. We did. We did. ah You know, that hey Seanan, we just want to talk about Cranko. Cranko got, we don't have to go into my Cranko tangents. Not with anyone who I was going to mention for once. No, what are one of the the profiles you guys want to talk about.
01:09:59
Speaker
Uh, I'm going to go with that what was my, um, supporter suggested episode, which was just goblin flavor text. That's right. Wow. Yes. That was a good episode. Um, you know, that covers lots of goblins, but that's all the way back to ups episode 46. And in the last, oh goodness, five years, I believe there have been some more flavor texts printed. Yeah. it might be a good one to revisit too
01:10:32
Speaker
gosh these are these are this is a hard one for me because like asking me to choose among my children because so many of the profiles i think are have touched on much deeper issues so i am going to go with slow bad ah who we have returned to. And Slow Bad was actually the first one that we returned to. So we did ah Slow Bad It's Good, if I recall correctly, on the very first episode. Was that 19? That was episode 19. And that was Slow Bad and Friendship. So that was when we actually talked about this idea of the misfits of Slow Bad, Glyssa and Bosch, like becoming friends and what that friendship kind of
01:11:09
Speaker
meant. And we really kind of explored that um through the lens of slow bad and through the lens of kind of what happened on um on on mirrored in the first time. And we returned to this with slow bad Glyssa and talking about the concept of stigma. And that was something that an episode 74 quite a I mean, like I said, it was a while later after doing that. But that was one of our first years of doing mental health. Um, month, I believe that might've been our first official, like where we actually thought this where we talked about, yeah, it was, it was the first year that we intentionally did may for mental health. And that hit on.
01:11:50
Speaker
the stigma, which is a topic that's very, very important to me. And so that kind of is one of those dual ones. But I think slow bad is just such an amazing example. I think nothing bad has happened to him in the last five years. not say i call I have a card sitting right here that it says slow bad actually just fine. yeah So he has to be okay. He definitely didn't get fused. His dead corpse didn't get fused to the body of his best one of his best friends. No. yeah so And his other best friend is just completed. And who knows what? Yeah, slightly psychopathic. Yeah, we actually talked about her completion being an interesting thing where you know, people saw her as the traitor. And so she became the traitor in some ways. But yeah,
01:12:41
Speaker
Yeah, I yeah, but slow bat is a slow bat and just the mirrored in story of the three of them was something that is really important to me. And I slow that is one of my favorite. He was also he was one of the first goblins to get that much story, too. Yeah. Yeah. And then unceremoniously killed off stage. Yeah. In between mirrored and sets, basically. Like so. His story is incredible. If you haven't read it, he's like ah basically like kicked out of his goblin clan, the Kark clan, which is where Kark comes from. but but Well, the clan that was devoted to Kark. But um he is kicked out from that. He like lives alone until he meets Glyssa and they become friends. He ends up getting Glyssa's spark and sparking.
01:13:29
Speaker
ah through her spark because sparks are weird and especially pre-mending sparks. priest Yeah, especially. And um Karn basically offers him to be this planeswalker and he turns it down to bring back his friends and people who had been killed. Yeah. Right. Yeah. that That didn't work out poorly for anybody, did it? Yeah. Maybe you should have chosen that buddy. Yeah. And then we come back and they literally the new Mirden set picks up with like fire axing type evasion going on and they come out from the underground and he gets killed by like a horde of he gets trampled. Yeah. He gets trampled. There's like a line that like it's basically like Ed Sloab had got killed. I mean, it's like it's so. Yeah.
01:14:18
Speaker
So anti-climactic for such an important goblin. I mean, yeah, and Glessa got completed off-camera. yeah True. and she Yeah, they they basically screwed over every character from the Mirrodin books, the first set of Mirrodin books.
01:14:35
Speaker
So ah but yeah, so I but slow bad is is is probably my favorite. And it's it's technically not a profile, but like the the interview with Dan about Squee and getting to finally, finally stop my complaining about Squee. I think it the joke ended up being right. Like Jay afterwards like messaged me how he kept having to hold his tongue while he was on the show with us because I kept complaining about Squee. Yep. Squeak not getting story when we went back to Dominaria for the first time and yeah yeah being replaced by a very adorable little mushroom person. Who's no friends with? Who's no friends with? Which is great. No no no shade ah there, but we're Squeak. Yeah, we're Squeak. And so it'd be funny because I would complain all the time about it. Yeah. All right. Well, I think that is that's all the categories I got on my list.
01:15:29
Speaker
Yeah, that's a lot of kind of I want to say, you know, I've been on the show for a little bit over a year and a half now, and and I enjoy doing this show so much with you, too. ah And I'm just hoping that we keep going. Yeah, one thing I know that um Alex and I talked about a long time ago and Taya you and I have talked about it I think even just in Discord separately since then has been this idea that like this is an amazing thing where we get to just come and talk with people that you know it's like making that time that I don't always get during the week right with family and all of my other
01:16:08
Speaker
um just things, responsibilities, that this guarantees that like I am making an attempt to sit down with two people that I want to talk to and talk about the stuff that we want to talk about. And we we really do, we're we are very privileged in a way that the three of us are, you know, we we have other jobs and things that allow us that we're, you know, that doing this show is about what we want to do. and um I mean, I'm not saying that other shows aren't, but I'm just saying that there isn't like a a a need for us to make money. Or we certainly aren't doing it for the money. No. no like yeah And like I said, you know, that does add like, it adds constraints, it adds things. And this has been one of those things that's like we could like that the idea that we could walk away if and when we need to is something that makes me not want to, if that makes any sense.
01:17:03
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and and it it allows us to just keep doing it because we love to do it. And mean and and again, like folks who, who can make their living doing content, that's great that that works for them. But this for me, I mean so much more because I don't have to, I don't have to do it. I don't have that pressure. Yeah. We do this because we enjoy doing it. Yeah. The fact that people listen is just surprising, but it's, you know, it's nice. Yeah. Absolutely. like yeah Alex, did you know people listen to the show? Oh, it surprises me every time I hear it, which is yeah, a joke going back that I i genuinely in my head, I like intellectually I knew people listen. But sort of emotionally, I just was like, I just talked to Joe and Hobbs and then it goes into the void and no one ever hears it. That that was kind of how I operated for the first year or so this podcast. And I'll say
01:18:03
Speaker
The last thing that i I want to go away with is I want to put another semi-regular plugin for our Discord. um but even today there's some heavy topics that have been discussed there and people are it is it is my support network in a lot of ways that is not on Twitter that I really do feel can be very active and is very open and raw like our show I would say like very direct about people being willing in that discord because they have found it to be a safe enough place to
01:18:40
Speaker
talk about struggles in clear language without beating around the bush or, you know, that sort of thing. And I just think it's really important and it's always free to join our discord. Like there's a link in our link tree. We have a link tree. Um, and the discord is basically it, it is there. I will even post it in the show notes for this that you can just click on it and join the discord. So I guess. last is, thank you both. I love doing this. um i'm I'm glad so glad you just when you came and joined us today. It's been great. the It's Yeah, I feel like it's what is let the show continue. Yeah. Yeah, really, really has. And also just thanks to all the listeners. Thank you for whenever you've joined us, however long you've been listening, however much you listen to. Thank you so much.
01:19:31
Speaker
And that's our show for today. You can find all of the hosts on Twitter for now. Hobbs can be found at HobbsQ, Tay can be found at Tayatransends, and Alex can be found at Mel underscore chronicler. Feel free to send us any questions, comments, thoughts, hopes, and dreams to the Goblin Lore Pod on Twitter, or email us at goblinlorepodcast at gmail dot.com. If you would like to support your friendly neighborhood gobsugs, our link tray can be found on our Twitter account and in the description of today's show. This has everything from various discount codes to the link for our Patreon. The music for today's show was by Wintergotten, who can be found at vintergotten at bandcamp dot.com. The art was done by Steven Raphael, who can be found at Steve Ruffle on Twitter. Goblin Lore is proud to be presented by Hipsters of the Coast as part of their growing forthos content.
01:20:21
Speaker
Check them out on Twitter at hipsters MTG or online at hipstersofthecoast.com. Thank you for listening and remember goblins like snowflakes are only dangerous in numbers.