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Overcoming Shyness
138 Plays2 years ago
Do you struggle with shyness? Are you extremely introverted? Sometimes people are so shy that they have a hard time speaking up in class, making friends, working a job -- all because they are plagued with constant worry surrounding shyness! Did you also know that something CAN be done to overcome that severe shyness?
In today's episode, both Beth and Ayla chat about how shyness has affected them in diffferent ways throughout their lives. For Beth, she delt with severe shyness that plagued her throughuot her childhood and young adult life, until she finally overcame it and now lives with less anxiety, fear of interactions with others, and enjoys a career that is centered around meeting new people! Ayla played a pivitol role in helping Beth overcome her shyness, even though Ayla has had to battle her own shyness at times. Ayla will walk you through her journey of thinking she was an extrovert to realizing that she actually dervies her energy from her alone time, and how she still chooses to pursue activities that keep her around people, and why.
Beth and Ayla will walk you through their journeys, and explain what they think made the biggest difference in their mindset shift, so that you can start implementing some of their methods, today!
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Host Backgrounds
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the Art of Intention podcast with Beth and Ayla. Two best friends turn creative entrepreneurs. This is a place for us to discuss everything business, friendships, and faith and occasionally more. We're so excited for today's episode. We think you're going to love it. Stay tuned.
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Art of Intention, and happy Monday. We're honestly both in the absolute thick of busy season right now, but we wanted to come on the show today and have a laid back chat time about something that both Ayla and I have struggled with, and maybe you can relate to it, and that's shyness.
00:00:41
Speaker
Yeah. And while that word looks different on Beth and I, actually very different of course, we've both experienced it in different ways and we have both had to navigate shyness in our lives and our businesses. And we wanted to just send some encouragement your way if you've had similar
Exploring Instagram Threads and Podcast Engagement
00:00:56
Speaker
struggles. Yeah. We think you'll really enjoy this episode, but first let's hop into community news.
00:01:02
Speaker
All right. I want to point out for community news today. This news is like pretty fresh as of yesterday, but by the time this podcast goes out, it might be less fresh. So let the record show. I was caught up on my current trends in news, even if it doesn't sound like it, but yesterday, who knows if people knew about it beforehand, but yesterday, um, I follow one of the main like actual like creators and CEOs of Instagram. And he announced this on his page yesterday, and that is Instagram threads.
00:01:30
Speaker
So Beth, have you heard much about threads like today as I was recording this? Exactly. Same as you. I heard about it yesterday. Um, I don't know if I follow the same person as you, but I follow somebody who's like, has a big Instagram account. They don't work for Instagram, but they have a big Instagram account and they talked about it. And I honestly kind of glossed by it and then saw them using it. And I was like, Oh, it's by Instagram. So I thought maybe I should look into it. So I saved it to talk about on community news. Um, and I thought it was an Instagram update.
00:01:59
Speaker
but then I've learned it's basically like a new app. And then I was like, okay, okay.
00:02:05
Speaker
Millions of people have signed up for it by the time we were recording this and I heard about it yesterday. And like so many photographers and other people I already know are like, follow me on threads, follow me on threads. And I like barely have my head wrapped around what it is. But we heard basically, and I do have a description that I'll read from it, my initial thoughts and kind of what everyone is saying. I follow the one photographer, Nathan Chansky on Instagram, and he was posting about it like actually minutes before we sat down to record this.
00:02:32
Speaker
and he tried it out and hopped on there and it's basically Instagram but very word-based so it's kind of like Twitter and he was like I think I kind of like this I think it's a cool and like appropriate way to interact with a large audience like that's not necessarily messaging but kind of just like a word-based posting so I went to the I went to like look at it on Instagram because it was like new to Instagram threads and then it's an Instagram app
00:02:58
Speaker
So when you click on that in your Instagram app, you're taken to the app store. And so I just screenshotted actually the description of what it is. Cause it might be able to word it better than I can, but it says threads and Instagram app about this app, share ideas and trends with text, say more with threads, Instagram's text based conversation app.
00:03:19
Speaker
Threads is where communities come together to discuss everything from the topics you care about today to what will be trending tomorrow. Whatever it is you're interested in, you can follow and connect directly with your favorite creators and others who love the same things or build a loyal following.
00:03:34
Speaker
of your own to share your ideas, opinions, and creativity in the world. And then here's a few things you can do on threads. Access your Instagram followers, your Instagram username and verification badge are reserved for you. So automatically follow the same accounts you follow on Instagram in a few taps and discover new accounts too. So it seems like you can choose to just follow who you already follow or follow many people.
00:03:55
Speaker
Share your point of view, spin up a new thread to express what's on your mind. This is your space to be yourself and control who can reply, which I think is kind of interesting. And then from there on, it's just sharing, interacting with your followers, connecting with people. And it seems to be like you can post conversations that people discuss in the thread. So kind of like Twitter. Is it almost like Reddit a little bit in that way too? I don't know much about Reddit. Would that be? Or is it just- Kind of, I guess.
00:04:22
Speaker
Because Reddit's kind of known for its, like, subreddits. So you can create one and then multiple posts happen within there. But then from then on, there is comments and threads and stuff. So yeah, anyways, that's new as of a couple of days ago. Interesting. Yeah, we'll have to create accounts. We can't sit on this one.
00:04:38
Speaker
Yeah, I know like every other app that's come out ever that I'm like, oh, it's fine. Well, we were saying we might need to create one for art of intention and then we can hang out with you guys on there, get episode ideas, get topic ideas, hang out with you guys.
Beth's Journey from Shyness to Confidence
00:04:54
Speaker
So continue the conversation about these topics because a lot of times, you know, we want to keep talking to you about these topics. So yeah, you might be able to find us on threads in a little bit. Yeah.
00:05:04
Speaker
So today we're talking about shyness and overcoming shyness and finding power in it and I'm really excited about this because yeah, I don't know. I wanted to go into a little bit of background on us and our experience with overcoming shyness. So Beth, I know this topic is really important to you and you did kind of talk about this in one of the recent episodes we did.
00:05:27
Speaker
on how to know if you're ready for marriage and like how you took a lot of time to like get over being shy. And I think you were kind of more shy than I was growing up. So do you mind sharing a bit about that experience? Yeah. Okay. Wow. And just a heads up for everyone. This is a very, like we said, conversational episode. We're not super prepared with like, you know, a script or anything. We're not adding, um, hang on with us while we just try to reminisce and like remember all these things. Cause I,
00:05:54
Speaker
Yeah, wow, my personal shyness journey, I guess I'll call it that if that's not too cheesy, it's kind of wild, it's kind of different. I was crazy shy, and I think I have mentioned that before on this podcast, but I mean, I don't even know how to properly explain how shy I was, but I was afraid to talk to people, I didn't want people to even look at me, I hated interacting with people, I was so scared to do that. In class, I would not talk to other people, I would not, I don't think one time,
00:06:23
Speaker
in my entire life, did I raise my hand in elementary school or high school to ask a single question in class? Not once. I couldn't do it. I physically could not make that happen. But yeah, so very, very shy childhood, high school, elementary school. One thing that I should know is that hanging out with you, Ayla, helped me a lot to get out of my comfort zone. I will talk so much more about this, I'm sure, through this episode. But you, because I know you were shy in your own ways too, like you were, you know,
00:06:51
Speaker
you're going to talk about it. But you were more bold in ways that I wasn't, or maybe I should say more comfortable in ways that I wasn't. Like we would go to that lake that we'd always grew up going to. And you weren't afraid to like walk in front of crowds to walk to the store or something like that. So being around you being, I thought what I thought was brave helped me to just kind of like distract from what made me shy. So like I would focus on having help with you and just, oh, Ayla just follow Ayla, like it's fine.
00:07:19
Speaker
And that, so that side note with that, that helped a lot with this. But yeah, so having a best friend is really good for shyness. And then when I realized that nothing bad happened from being in public, being around you, it helped me with people.
00:07:33
Speaker
But yeah, so I'm trying to figure out how to like explain this, but I think I'm just- Well, I remember that with like crowds specifically too. Like we'd go to like get an ice cream and if it was crowded, you were like, I can't do this. I can't do this. And I was like, it's okay. You know, like it's okay. And like every time it just got a little better. That's honestly me. I'll get into it, but that's honestly me now. Like it's kind of shifted. Like now I cannot deal, but I was like, yeah, I was pretty outgoing as a kid. And I think that just, yeah, I helped this metal really well. Cause you chilled me out. Like I was super loud and like a wee bit obnoxious when I was younger.
00:08:04
Speaker
No, I needed that though. That's the thing we talked about before on this podcast. You and I were such a great duo because in the ways we were opposite, we needed that in each other. You brought me out of my comfort zone, but then I just like kept us, I don't know, like just kind of chilling. But I don't know, I don't think there's anything wrong with how you were. I don't think you were too.
00:08:27
Speaker
What I love about you is that you were always understanding and patient with me, but you didn't make us go hide. When I was getting nervous in front of those crowds, you would just say, oh, no worries. It's totally fine. I can go walk up first. I can do the talking, but you didn't say, oh, okay, then let's go.
00:08:44
Speaker
You kept me in this spot. That was so important. Yeah, exactly. And again, I don't know if you were doing that on purpose. You were just like, no, we're getting our ice cream and fries. Probably more so that, but yes. You also were like, why? Why are you feeling bad right now? What are you talking about? That's stupid. You had a very good way of just being like, oh, OK, I hear you. Let's go. I don't even know. I'll talk more, I think, about why I think that's a good strategy, whether you meant it or not. No, I never caught that. That's cool.
00:09:12
Speaker
Yeah, it was amazing. You were exactly what I needed. So you, I owe a big part of me getting over shy to you just naturally, like our best friendship. But there were specific decisions I made too. And so I guess I'll skip to that like with high school. I'm very shy for all that time. I spent about two years in high school still being deathly shy. And I actually note with that, Ayla and I did go to the same high school, but she was in a different class. So I wasn't
00:09:37
Speaker
I didn't have her in the classes. I was at a new place, new environment, new people, big classes, in my opinion, because I was from a tiny school. I didn't have someone who helped me always get over being shy. Anyways, this is where my story is a little bit different than most people. Hang on to me with this. I'll try to be quick with it.
00:09:55
Speaker
A lot of people say that changes don't happen overnight, things like this don't happen overnight, but I'm not going to lie, it did for me. It's hard to explain, but I literally decided one day that I was not going to care what people thought of me, that I was going to try not to be shy anymore before I go into this.
00:10:17
Speaker
I'm still shy naturally. There are still moments I have where I get shy. And I think like you said that too, Ayla, you're like, well, now I don't like crowds. There's still these parts of us that get in our heads. But I was like, I'm making the decision. I am done caring what people think about me. I am done being shy.
00:10:35
Speaker
Now, there were things that went into that, so I'll try to summarize why that happened. A big point is that I really wanted to be popular and have friends. I was tired of being scared of everyone looking at me and stuff. Let me just summarize it like this. There was four, maybe five things that I did that led to this decision. Number one.
00:10:55
Speaker
I was really encouraged at that time in my life by the Bible studies in the youth group I was going to that God loves me as I was. I was finding confidence in who God wanted me to be and that God didn't make mistakes. Something that made a big difference to me. Again, I never heard all this just once. Anything I'm talking about now, it wasn't like I heard someone say this and my life was changed forever. This was being poured into me week after week.
00:11:21
Speaker
But a really big impactful phrase for me was learn how to see yourself through God's eyes. And so I tried to learn how to do that. Because obviously if you do that, then you're going to realize that you're okay, that you're fine. The second thing was motivation to make more friends. Like I said before, I was really trying to make friends and I wanted to be able to talk to classmates. People would ask me a question in class and I would not be able to respond.
00:11:47
Speaker
Like I was that shy, which just was terrible. So yeah, I was also crushing on Chad at the time. And I was like, okay, if I have a crush on him, I want to date him, then I'm going to need to open my mouth and speak when he asks me questions in class. Like he-
00:12:04
Speaker
I know, it's so hard. He loves to talk about how like I, um, cause seeing this from his perspective is funny because he said that for an entire six months, the only thing I talked about was my knee. And I was like, what do you mean? So I got a knee injury at the time and he was like, I couldn't get you to talk about anything else. Like I'd ask you questions because I found my comfort zone. I was like, okay, I can talk about this. Like it's fine. Like I, I'm comfortable talking about that. And apparently like on my side, I'm just thinking I'm doing so great having conversations. But on his side, he was like,
00:12:33
Speaker
That's literally all you talked about. Like I, you know, so I was doing, I was getting better. Okay. Anyways. Um, the third one was I was sick of being like sick to my stomach every day. Like I said, if someone would talk to me, if I had to have a question, if someone looked at me, like I would get a physical stomach ache and I was just sick of being sick every single day for my entire life.
00:12:51
Speaker
And another thing I noticed, this would be maybe like thing number four. I noticed that at church specifically, when I did speak to people, like who were my friends or like, you know, like people in my age group, that they would enjoy what I had to say. And this sounds maybe so like dumb. I understand you 100%. I totally get that. Yeah, exactly. Like must be a weird kid thing. Like when people actually start to enjoy being around you, you're like, wow, wait a second. I'm not just like an outcast.
00:13:21
Speaker
Exactly. Dude, that made one of the biggest differences. Of course, you were in my church group too. I think the reason I was able to talk to people in church was because I was with you. So again, having that best friend really helped a lot. But anyways, I was like, wait a second. I make jokes. People would laugh. I was not really made fun of. It was just so great. So that was one of the biggest key moments was
00:13:43
Speaker
being in these groups and meeting new people and actually like enjoying their company and noticing that they were enjoying mine. And that was like a boom. That was like, okay, I can do this. And the very last thing, to be honest, I don't know how this is going to sound. It's going to sound shallow. And I don't have time to really explain, I think all the things behind it, but it made a big difference in me being able to be like confident.
00:14:04
Speaker
And that changes to my appearance. I started wearing glasses and I got braces and my teeth got fixed, stuff like that, where I know it's shallow and it really doesn't matter what you look like. And I also wasn't allowed to wear makeup until I was 16. And again, not bashing that. I think my mom made a fine decision with that. But being in high school three years in, not wearing makeup, and you're the only girl, and then it's just, this stuff does make a difference in how you're confident. In high school too, that's just all everyone's thinking about.
00:14:34
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And not saying it's right to be thinking about that, but let's be honest, that's real life. And it was just such a big part of me and my confidence. Anyway, so it was like overnight, the reason I say it was an overnight change for me, because literally the day I got contacts, I also started wearing makeup.
00:14:50
Speaker
And so it was like makeup, contacts, my teeth really getting fixed. And I was like, had all this stuff in the past pouring in to make people at church, like getting more comfortable with that, you know, so it was just, it all wrapped together to where one night I was like, that's it, I'm done. And literally from that day on, when
00:15:07
Speaker
I just would be like, if someone would talk to me, I would just make myself talk louder than I would normally want to talk because I'd be very whispery and shy. I would just talk with confidence. I would say a joke even if I thought, you know what? This might not land. I would stop myself from overthinking it and I would just joke. I would respond. I would laugh when they said something funny. It was hard, but after I made that decision,
00:15:30
Speaker
I mean, it was like a whole new world. I think I was on cloud nine for the next like two years. I made so many more friends. I felt like people enjoyed my company. I enjoyed other people's company and I just, I didn't feel sick like every day. And of course I could go, maybe I'll go into this later in the podcast if you think we have time, but having to make those changes in my business makes, you know, in my job, my career made a big difference too. But yeah, it was,
00:15:55
Speaker
It was a very unique experience going from being the most shy person I've ever met into this day. I've never met anyone who's as shy as I was, at least not that I know. Maybe I just don't know because I'm not, because they're not talking to me, but yeah, cause they're shy, but yeah. Yeah. No, we'll definitely get into, um, how.
00:16:13
Speaker
like if you're more introverted or if you're shy because those are two different things but generally like if you work in a people-centered business that is something you have to put to the side so no that's definitely something that i think will come up but i i remember just yeah being like side by side with you through this and it was crazy because when it was you and me i guess i couldn't tell as much because you know if you're hanging out with your best friend it was completely fine
00:16:35
Speaker
Yeah, once we started getting older and going places, I think I do remember that. And some days you were chill. And then some days it was like, I like don't really want to do this. Like it was, it wasn't linear in the very beginning, you know, it was very much until, but I remember directly when you made that decision. And I think I also remember if it's okay to say, but I remember like social media was becoming a thing.
00:16:56
Speaker
and we'd go to like take pictures and you'd get like nervous about what pictures would be posted because you were like no I want to look this way I want to be this way I want to book and then like I remember when that changed and I was like this picture is not very good you're like post it like I don't care like even that changed with your confidence and I remember with like
00:17:13
Speaker
the way you did your hair and the way you did makeup. I remember you wore makeup for a bit, nothing heavy. You wore a very normal amount of makeup. But then you stopped again because you were like, oh, now I'm comfortable with myself. And then you didn't wear makeup for years. I remember that was like, you were like, I finally wear this. I feel good. I feel confident. And then you didn't need to wear it as much anymore. It was just something about trying it, breaking out. And then you became way more confident in your appearance and stuff. And then sometimes I was.
00:17:42
Speaker
there was different waves of us caring about that like sometimes I cared and you didn't and like vice versa but I just I remember that and it's I didn't realize that I guess it was like a decision one day that you made and I think that's so powerful to like have that that insight of like I'm done I'm done being this way because because some people and I'll get into it some people can let that just
00:18:05
Speaker
continue to be who they are for years. And not to say it's not hard, but a lot of things in life sometimes come down to a decision. And I just, I think that's really cool. Yeah, that's so interesting. And yeah, good. I forgot to bring up the makeup thing. That's a good point. I had a really weird relationship with makeup. I think I needed makeup to give you that final boost because it was kind of like a comfort zone.
Ayla's Evolution from Outgoing to Introverted
00:18:24
Speaker
I was like, okay, I'm going to be able to talk to these people because I don't have to worry about this aspect of my looks, which again, I know that's shallow based, but as a kid,
00:18:32
Speaker
You know, it's a teenage girl. Yeah, right. Exactly. So I felt like I was taking away one of the factors of anxiety so I could just go in and start having these conversations. And then like I said, once those relationships built, my confidence built and I didn't need makeup, but I did notice myself. So you're talking about that one time where I stopped wearing makeup.
00:18:50
Speaker
I forgot about that. That summer after junior year when I first started wearing makeup, I found out I was dependent on it. I remember one day I was panicking late to leave the house and I was like, I can't leave until I put on my makeup. I was like, okay, I'm dependent on makeup. I finished out the school year and then that summer I was like, I'm going to get
00:19:10
Speaker
no makeup all summer that's my challenge to myself and by the end of it I want to like how I look without makeup and I did and it went great and then from there on it was like I'd wear mascara maybe and again not saying I thought I was amazing but I just enjoyed one less thing to stress about and having the confidence still so you know but yeah yeah I love that I think that's cool in like I guess I've never thought about this before but I guess it's okay to like
00:19:36
Speaker
have a crutch or two to help yourself get over that and then put it down later. Like it's okay to be like, you know what? I'd want to just dress a certain way. That'll make me feel better. But yeah, not becoming dependent, but just to help get you in the door. I think that that's really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Cause yeah, I guess for me, I don't know. I'm sort of,
00:19:55
Speaker
backwards and like opposite to you. Um, cause I, I wouldn't really consider myself shy. It depends on the situation. Um, I was a very outgoing child. I was super extroverted. I wore crazy clothes. I was really wild and bubbly and I talked a lot, like just a little chatterbox.
00:20:13
Speaker
And in high school, I chilled out a bit, but I still had a really crazy style. I used to have the absolute rainbow of skinny jeans that I would wear with like checkered shirts and like suspenders. And my hair was always crazy colors. And we'll keep miss that a bit. Like, no, I should just bring it all back. But.
00:20:31
Speaker
And I was active in theater. So things like presentations and public speaking never really bothered me. I was really shy against like popular kids. They terrified me. They were so scary. I somewhat talked to slash halfway dated this one kid who like his friends were the popular kids. So we'd go eat lunch together. And I was just like, like I was freaking out the entire time because they just, they, they scared me. They seemed mean probably.
00:20:56
Speaker
I actually know a lot of them like later in life and they're so nice like it's completely fine but that was kind of part of it so like with my own friends and like in my clubs and theater and stuff I was super outgoing and then with people I didn't know as well who I was worried might like bully me or something then I would like really like suck back in to myself I guess yeah but however like now in life I'm a huge introvert and I think despite being
00:21:22
Speaker
social and outgoing as a child, I was still always very comfortable solo. Like I could entertain myself for hours in my room. I didn't need to be around people reading or drawing. But I also again, like you, I liked stuff like church and our church activities. And when I was really struggling with school, like academically and stress wise, again, hanging out with you and like our church friends really like that was my one piece of my one stress relief. So
00:21:45
Speaker
I did sometimes get my energy, my rejuvenation back from that, but overall, I've definitely been more introverted. Especially the end of high school and on, I really grew to prefer my own company and that of a close circle of friends. I did not need to hang out with 15 plus friends as much, I just needed a few around me. I took the 16 personalities test at one point, I think in 2018, and I was 60% introvert and 40% extrovert.
00:22:12
Speaker
Would you line up at the time? Because I'm good at meeting new people, like in a room full of new people for about one day, I can be like, Hey, where are you all from? How's it going? And then day two, I'm like, oh, nobody breathe around me like nobody. And then the pandemic came and like sealed my fate. I took that test again in like 2022. And I think I was like 85% introvert.
00:22:35
Speaker
And I was like, I liked that too much. Lockdowns happened and they were like work and then nowhere else. And I was like, excellent. Sounds good to me. I don't need an excuse for anything. But while being an introvert is different than being shy, I still think that that's kept me from kind of delving into the photography industry. I've had a few of my photographers ask, were you ever a photographer? You do editing? I never was. Because you're working with people
00:23:04
Speaker
in very close quarters and you have to have this good charisma and character all the time and I think I could do it because I do love people and like working with people but it could not be my job. But I think the one thing that did keep me functioning is I've always worked in my adult life. I've worked in some kind of customer service like food service all through the pandemic and still now along with editing and I think that early exposure
00:23:29
Speaker
to that environment helped me continue to foster good people skills and patient skills and like problem solving and working with people and like keeping them happy. I think if I went a few years without working in customer service or some kind of people oriented field, I would have a really hard time getting back into it because as introverted as I am,
00:23:48
Speaker
I like having people focus jobs or else I would probably like never see anybody and that's not really a good thing. So it's kind of interesting. I don't really know what shifted as I started out like super outgoing and extroverted. And I'm still like that within my circle of friends, but something about like going new places just like, I don't know, hasn't really come around as much.
00:24:10
Speaker
Yeah, that's so interesting to me. It's so inspiring because I've always seen you as really good at both, like you said. Of course, I always admired how outgoing you could be. I think for a long time, I thought you were both. Something interesting, my older sister told me once that a very tiny, tiny percentage of the population is actually both introvert and extrovert. You can't say you're just one, they're both. For a long time, I would have thought that you were both.
00:24:37
Speaker
Then and as you're talking you're kind of explaining this like as you got older you kind of like really started to shift over towards more being introverted and I'm wondering if it's just because once you were an adult and you could control like what your life looked like that's true. Yeah towards what gave you peace and also maybe as you gain more confidence in just who you were you weren't trying to be like Oh, I have to do this or I have to you know, go pursue these things. So I don't know I I
00:25:02
Speaker
It's very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Like you're not in as many classes or church programs or anything like that. The gym we just recently started going to has like, Zumba and like Pilates classes. And I told Chris, I was like, I should probably go to one of those. So I like meet some people or something in mind, like one of the things like, cause yeah, I feel like I can be both in the sense of if I have to meet a lot of new people, like in the community living situations we lived in, for example,
00:25:29
Speaker
the first day you're meeting 30 new people. I actually do pretty well with that first day. I might be a little nervous, but once people are talking, especially where people are from all around the world, I love meeting people and getting to be like, oh, where are you from? How's this?
00:25:46
Speaker
Like the second week of that school, I was so done with everybody. And they were all some amazing lifelong friends that I'm going to have. But it was around the second week of living. I think I lived with like nine girls, and then we were in a class of 21 students or something like that. Or 11 students, and then our staff, whatever. Still multiple people. You're never alone, ever.
00:26:07
Speaker
And we were in the van, and I think one girl was just breathing. She just sighed, and I was like, oh. So I definitely like the solitude to recharge or whatever that is. And being married, Chris is also pretty introverted. So our time together qualifies as alone time. It gives me the same amount of energy back. But yeah, so I'm good to start out, but I definitely
00:26:34
Speaker
need a minute to myself eventually but I would just like go on a solo walk or something like that or maybe if everyone was going out into the city one night I'd stay home like just not all the time but just a little bit so but anyway like I guess that kind of oh that's what I was gonna say uh if you don't mind I what you said about it like being a decision and this I guess can segue into like the next few things that we kind of had roughly to talk about again super unstructured but going to that school
00:27:03
Speaker
Um, I was just coming out of college and I had my friend group, like pretty tight knit. And, um, again, I had gotten kind of quiet in some of my classes. It depended on the class. Sometimes I was super active and like interacting with the professor. And sometimes I was similar to you.
00:27:18
Speaker
the professor would ask a question and I knew the answer fully well and would not raise my hand there was actually one class where no one knew the answer and I did and no one was raising their hand and it got really silent for actually a super long time and I was like you know what you know it raise your hand raise your hand and I just like couldn't do it so I definitely had some of that but
00:27:37
Speaker
I was leaving everybody I knew in my hometown. I was leaving kind of an annoying relationship situation. I was just stepping into this whole new area and I decided, I was like, I'm going to try everything. I'm going to talk to as many people as possible. If they say we're all jumping in the lake in our clothes, I'm going to do it. And it's funny because Chris actually, when he was flying over to New Zealand, that's where we met.
00:28:02
Speaker
He had the same thing as like another introvert. He was also like, I'm going to make the most of this because we didn't want to leave this life changing and honestly expensive school that we went to having just like been in our bubble the entire time. So it was like, we want to get the most out of this and it might be uncomfortable. We might get tired of people sometimes, but we're going to say yes to as many opportunities as possible and just like go for it. And that was so worth it. And that's how I handle as much as I can.
00:28:29
Speaker
in life, like just say yes, go to the party you might not want to go to, not all the time, you know, know, know what you need and be comfortable with yourself. But like if you can say yes, just try it out. And that's kind of maybe the first steps to getting over like severe introversion or shyness.
00:28:45
Speaker
That's so true. Oh my gosh. I love that. That's like perfect in every way. Um, and that's so interesting. I, I'm trying to remember, I think I do remember you expressing that you were excited to get the most out of this. I don't know if we sat down and had a full conversation where you're like, I'm going to just like, you know, take every opportunity and like not going to be shy. I don't think you said it in those words to me, but I do remember that part of that. I know it's kind of like a side note, but yeah, that's so interesting.
00:29:11
Speaker
Well, it just reminded me of what you said of like it came down to a decision of like, I do not want to miss out anymore. Yeah. Right. And then as we're talking about this, for those of you who are listening, I know that sounds, we know that we're making that sound over simplified that like a decision, like we just made a decision.
00:29:28
Speaker
But we're trying to express to you that there were things leading up to that that gave us confidence to make that decision, or they kind of pushed us to feeling like we were on the final straw, so we had to make that decision, or just external factors. So pay attention to those, too, if things are pushing you to make that decision. But it's going to benefit you in so many ways if you can make that decision.
00:29:48
Speaker
I find it a lot easier when I'm in a crowd of people I've never met before, which is funny that it might not resonate with as many people because sometimes if it's a group of people I roughly know, like acquaintances, that's almost
Overcoming Social Anxiety and Self-Focus
00:29:59
Speaker
worse because they might like have some idea of how I'm supposed to be or I don't know. But especially if I'm like, say traveling and I want to try a new coffee shop I've never been to before in like a new country and I might get nervous because I don't know, like,
00:30:15
Speaker
They have different names for the coffee and like the currency is different. And I get all nervous. Normally I'd like, yeah, I get nervous. I wouldn't want to order. And maybe I asked somebody else too, but I'm like, I'm brand new people. I have never spoken to any of these people. I will probably never see them again. And that actually is a super helpful, like kind of jumping off point. So even if you mess it up, it's like, Oh, whatever. They might have a funny story to tell, but like, they're not going to be there to hang it over you in the rest of your life. So, and then it was kind of easier to apply those to the rest of my life.
00:30:44
Speaker
And then I was also like, I used to be pretty self-conscious about appearance and stuff too, just from like Beth and I talked about it kind of in our intro episode of like being bullied and stuff, it makes you a little more self-conscious. And then again, honestly, somewhat recently, maybe at age like 22 or 23, I was like, do you know what? I am literally not 14 anymore. I am too old to care about what people think about me. Like if I get embarrassed out in public or,
00:31:12
Speaker
I come across somebody who maybe doesn't like me that much or maybe they think my outfit's weird. I literally am too old and too busy to care. Like something just kind of clicked in the last couple of years. So definitely this wasn't an overnight thing, but in the last couple of years, I'm just like, I do not have to care what they think about me. I really don't. So that's so good. That's so true. Yeah. Not caring what people think about you is such a hard transition to make because there's going to be days where you're like, you feel good about that. And some days where you just can't get that out of your head. You know what? Yeah.
00:31:39
Speaker
Yeah, something that helped me is spending more time in cities with that concept specifically, because people would tell me that they'd say like, Oh, just don't care. People think people aren't paying attention to you. But in a small town growing up in a small town, tell me if you experienced this too.
00:31:56
Speaker
That was a very unbelievable phrase because people would say, Oh, we saw your daughter doing this. Oh, you know, like it, so that wasn't believable when someone said people don't care. I was like, that's not true. I think they do care. I think they are watching. I think I do. I think they do notice everyone knows everything.
00:32:12
Speaker
And they'll tell your parents about it. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Or your friends. Or like, oh, are you the person who this, that when you meet new people? So getting into a city more, not only living in a city, of course, but just visiting cities. And you, of course, have been to a lot of cities during your travels too. Noticing that people in everyday life, they're taking pictures in public.
00:32:32
Speaker
No one cares. They are talking loud. No one really cares. It's a passing moment. You know, everyone is doing certain things that no one is really, it's not stopping the world. It's not making everyone turn and look at you. No one is judging. And so kind of remembering if I pass by someone who's doing XYZ and it doesn't bother me, I'm not judging them, then people are not going to be judging me either for the same things. Watching how people work in the world in cities and nothing is really a big deal helped a lot.
00:33:00
Speaker
I love that. And yeah, similar, like when there's more people that you don't know, say, yeah, I actually forgot about this. I would totally go to church on Sunday and someone would be like, I saw you, like, not a bad thing. It's sweet. It's a small town thing that I do miss, but you are just like, ah, if I could do one thing. No, I totally get that. Do you remember one time we were being so goofy in a store and one of our teachers saw us? Do you remember that?
00:33:25
Speaker
Yes, I do. Oh my gosh. For those of you who are listening, Ava and I used to love going into like Ross, right? Ross, T.J. Mads, what have you. And we loved doing this thing because we're goofy children. We did it multiple times. This happened often. Yeah. Well, usually I think it was like your mom picked us up from school and she was going to Ross or something. Yeah, so she would entertain her shopping. Yeah. So we'd go to the shoe section.
00:33:52
Speaker
And we would be like, okay, you pick out a pair from me. I'll pick out a pair for you. Or we'd go like, okay, let's see who can pick out the most obnoxious pair. So we'd go and get like crazy shoes. We'd usually end up getting something that had like, you know, nine inch heels or something. Yeah. The highest heels we could find the most uncomfortable. Yeah. The worst part would be when they were hooked together. Do you remember when they used to like hook shoes to each other? So you couldn't walk in them? Yeah. But we'd still put them on and try to walk. And so we were one time like falling over. And try to like run.
00:34:19
Speaker
Oh my gosh, we would try to walk. I forgot about that part. No, we were clearly we didn't care what people thought sometimes because we were being absurd in this roster. This example is when I would like Ayla would allow me to get into our friendship bubble and I was just like, right have fun. But we were also laughing. You know, we'd be trying to be quiet, but also like having fun. So funny. Anyways, one time we were in the middle of doing that and we turn around and there was a teacher.
00:34:45
Speaker
You know, yeah, I think we came around an aisle and we saw him walking around and we were like, like, and we like ran back into the aisle, took our shoes off and like ran away. No. Do you remember this part? The worst part of that was like, yeah, we were in Ross and we were like, Oh my gosh, embarrassing. Haha. And then I go to school on Monday and I have that teacher for a class. And he was like, Hey, I saw you and Beth and Ross the other day. And I was like, Oh,
00:35:07
Speaker
And I was like, oh, and I was trying to keep it cool. I was like, maybe he didn't. Maybe surely he saw us somewhere else. Maybe. And then I was like, oh, yeah. And he was like, I think you were trying on shoes. No, exactly like this. He did not. And I was like, uh-huh. Yeah. You know what?
00:35:31
Speaker
I mean, again, how old would we have been? 15, 16, and I'm a grown person now. And I just laugh about it. And honestly, those are candid events. Those are things that just shape you. Everyone must go through it at some point if your childhood's any fun. If you're fun, you're going to be embarrassing yourself. And that's another thing, too. That's another phrase that helped me, too, is there's two parts to it. Something really fun is probably going to be either scary or you're going to be worried about it being embarrassing.
00:36:00
Speaker
Like to get that level of fun, sometimes you have to go through uncomfortableness, if that makes sense. Like an example of that is like, if you want to go bungee jumping, there was this girl who was like afraid to go. And I heard the guy say like, but this is what you came here for. And like, you didn't think you're going to get this much fun without being afraid, did you? And so like, that's a good way to think about anything.
00:36:21
Speaker
If you're with your friends and you want to be just stomach cramps, tearful eyes, laughing, guess what? People are going to hear you and that's okay. You may be doing something that could be perceived as embarrassing, but don't be embarrassed because I think anyone who's watching you knows that you're just having fun.
00:36:38
Speaker
But again, it was a good balance in our friendship too, because again, I remember walking at the lake or really in any store and just talking loudly. And sometimes it wasn't bad. It depended on what I was talking about. But Beth had to teach me about my surroundings and being aware of my surroundings. I don't think I would insult people personally. I would be like, look at that stupid kid. It would just be about whatever. But it would probably be whatever random conversation we were having.
00:37:08
Speaker
I think I remember. Oh, this is such a niche memory. I don't even know if you'll remember this, but it was a few weeks after my sister. Okay. Hmm. I don't know. Whatever. It's fine. It was a few weeks after my sister's wedding. Okay. This was a while ago. This was in 2015. And for that wedding, I basically just had to wear like, I didn't bring the proper setup for my dress. So I just had to wear like a long slip with it and like, no.
00:37:35
Speaker
like underwear and I think I was just telling you that story really loud and yeah a Ross one day I was just really loudly and I was like that I couldn't wear any underwear and you were like okay you were like you you need to think about what you're saying you need to think about where we are
00:37:51
Speaker
I was like, I'm so sorry. So it was like, it was a good thing. Like I needed some of it for sure. Cause you'd be like, you're surrounding. That is funny. I would always say the word surroundings. It became one of our inside jokes. It was the word surroundings. And you ended up, as I got more outgoing, you ended up saying it to me a couple of times too. And that's again, just one of those examples of how we just were perfect for each other. Like you drew me out of my shell so I could really just like become the person I was supposed to be.
00:38:19
Speaker
And then also like there are moments where we had to be mindful that like, oh, we're in, we're in. We didn't want to be annoying to everybody. Yeah. You were never saying anything insulting. You did not do, you were not a gossip. That again, we've talked about that before. You were not a gossipy person. You were not someone who insulted people. Like you're the kind of person that, you know, people wish they had as a friend and people should be. You were not a gossip or anything like that. So it was never, I was telling you to be quiet for the surroundings because of what you were saying, unless it was something that could just be embarrassing to be like yelling like that. It would just be like,
00:38:49
Speaker
random or whatever, yeah. Right, or just that we were being a little bit loud and I didn't want people to complain or something. That's a big thing for me. My family actually used to get annoyed with me for that. I would always tell my sisters to be quiet in stores, not like, oh, shut up, but just talk quieter because they'd be so loud and they would be looking at us. So sometimes it wasn't right on my end. I'd be like, oh, can we be a little quieter just because I was feeling shy, not because you were doing anything wrong. So there was both.
00:39:16
Speaker
Yeah, no, I was actually telling Chris about that the other day. We were out getting lunch and we were both talking fine But I told him there was a time where I used to just yeah like talk super loud getting food because my mom would tell me the same she'd be so like Oh, yeah
00:39:37
Speaker
I feel like you were shouting. I am loving this. But it's also one of my favorite things about you when we were kids. I loved that you were just like, I just love it. You just didn't care because there was nothing to care about. You were doing anything wrong. You were just like, you were the one, you could order the food. I don't even know. I loved it. I loved, obviously we're best friends for a reason. I loved everything about you. That's so crazy though.
00:40:02
Speaker
I kind of want to shift to the one minuscule note that I made for this outline. And that kind of goes back into the one bit of effort that I put to this outline. But I wanted to talk about, so we were talking about getting over shyness by putting yourself in uncomfortable situations. Oh, that's what it was. OK, actually, sorry, before I get to my point, that was another thing. So you were talking about going to cities helped you, for me,
00:40:32
Speaker
It was going to the gym. And that's, yeah, I used to be terrified. You probably remember like in high school and stuff, I was like, you will not catch me dead there. And like all through college, I didn't really, I didn't work out or care about fitness or anything like that. Um, cause that's a pretty big passion of mine that I have right now. You like years ago, I could not, I would make fun of people who went to the gym and like, I was really intimidated by this whole idea of like gym bros. I was like, I'm going to go in there and everyone's going to stare at me. They're going to laugh at me.
00:41:02
Speaker
And it's actually funny, this could be a different conversation, but most people, like 95% of people that you're scared of in the gym are so kind and like so willing to help you out with stuff. Like I think I've only had an encounter with like two people in the few years I've been going to the gym who bother me and they're just like, you don't have to care about those people. They're just being annoying. Like you do not have to care about them.
00:41:23
Speaker
But I was so scared to go and when I met Chris he had been going to the gym like that was something he really liked and cared about and wanted to share that with me and I was like no and I was terrified the first few times that we went into a gym and I didn't know how to use the equipment like
00:41:39
Speaker
I didn't know how to use the equipment, didn't know what to do, so the more I got interested in it, I watched more YouTube videos about how to use equipment, and times I got to go with Chris really helped me, because he could just show me. But there were some of the first few times he, like I'd try to adjust the seat, and I didn't know how, and it would make me so nervous, and I would get so like, and like freak out, and anytime somebody glanced my direction, because people glanced directions, I would freak out that they were watching me, anytime there was like a very fit,
00:42:07
Speaker
mail in there. I was like, he's gonna make fun
Shifting from Negative to Positive Mindsets
00:42:09
Speaker
of me. He's gonna laugh at me. He's gonna blah, blah, blah. Months of being in the gym, I realized everyone's just focused on their own thing. Everyone is in there to work out and go home, especially the gym we go to now. It's not like a big chain. It's a local one. So, um, which is nice.
00:42:22
Speaker
just kind of very serious people go there. So they're all focused on their own stuff. Unless you're doing something that can injure you, no one cares. Nobody cares what you're doing. Nobody cares how much weight. That was the other thing I was nervous about because Chris is, you know, he's a man and he's strong. So he put like super big weights on his barbell and then mine was like, eh, a little five pound one. And I was like, this is so embarrassing. And he was like, it's just cause you're a girl and you've never been in the gym before. Like you'll get
00:42:47
Speaker
You'll progress. Nobody cares about what you're lifting. Nobody cares about what you look like. No one cares what you're wearing. And that applied to so many situations in life. Generally, everyone is just kind of like,
00:43:02
Speaker
working on their own thing. And now I'm completely comfortable going there alone. I will happily like fail a lift or figure out a machine or ask for help. Like I'm more comfortable in there now because I learned it's a really helpful and good environment to be in. And if anyone ever wants to go to the gym, and they ask somebody for help, and that person's rude, they're just being rude, they do not reflect the majority of people going there. Generally, anyone you ask for help should like help you and stuff. But that was another that was like one of the last big
00:43:31
Speaker
things of social anxiety that I had was a place like that. And it took a few months, but now that really helped apply to a lot of other situations. That is so cool. I definitely relate to that experience so much. I don't go to the gym right now, but just in general. And I know that if I did start going in, I'd be so nervous. But I love hearing that. I love hearing that too from someone who is usually really good about being outgoing, but that you still have moments where you feel like that. But you know what that made me think of?
00:43:59
Speaker
Um, the kind of the concept of like, we spend so much time, especially for people who are shy or who are introverted. We spend so much time trying to convince ourselves that the negative will happen. Like literally so much time. Think about the thoughts that kept going over your head. Oh, they're looking at me. They're judging me. They're this, that's us spending time convincing ourselves with the negative. What if we put effort and energy into trying to convince ourselves of the optimistic version of that? Like, what if we like, like looked at it like a problem? Like, Oh my gosh, what is the evidence that these people don't care?
00:44:29
Speaker
What is the evidence? Really try to break that down. That's something that also I think helps. If you can try to look at it that way, try to convince yourself. Look at it like evidence. Try to convince yourself that the opposite is true. If you're trying to be negative and scared, try to gather evidence that the opposite is true. Yeah, if that makes sense. That's the best way I can think of it.
00:44:49
Speaker
well that kind of that goes perfectly to something else i had um yeah because it's so true it's so human nature especially if you have more anxious tendencies to go to the negative and that does bring up like mindset which is something i've been thinking about honestly for only the last like month or so like how much your mindset affects the rest of your life but something
00:45:08
Speaker
that I learned about in church a couple years back was the concept of inferior pride. I don't know if you've ever heard of that before. I've never heard of that. So there's pride, like one of the seven deadly sins, I guess. And when we think of pride, we usually think of like, I'm better than everybody else. Everyone should be graced by my presence. I, you know, I bring this to the table and I'm just so great. That's superior pride.
00:45:31
Speaker
There's inferior pride, which is nobody's going to like me. Everyone's looking at me. Nobody wants to talk to me. It's like the Eeyore of the group. Like, oh, like I won't bother because it's not going to be good anyway. That is another version of pride. And the reason why, when you tear yourself down, you are being prideful.
00:45:50
Speaker
You're being prideful because you're being self absorbed. You're focusing on yourself. You're preoccupied with yourself. So you're still not considering your surroundings and the people around you. And I didn't realize this when I learned about this, I realized I was a huge, like, sufferer, I guess of inferior pride constantly thinking that people
00:46:10
Speaker
especially coming from like a slight bullying history, I thought very much all the time that any time I was in social situations, I was like, these people secretly don't like me. They don't like what I'm wearing. They don't. And that's a form of inferior pride and not to make people feel bad, but to make you think it's not an emotion that you should carry with you because it's not good because pride is the love of the self. And this is a way to do it while still talking down on yourself. I'm trying to think I have a little article pulled up on it to help me like
00:46:38
Speaker
put it into words. But many don't expect to find pride in their hearts when they're failing. In fact, people often view failure as an opportunity for humility. But pride is ultimately self-preoccupation. A prideful person thinks about himself. He's ambivalent to others, and he forgets God in it. So instead of rejoicing in the success of others and trusting in God's sovereignty, a prideful person concerns only himself.
00:47:02
Speaker
And that blew my mind when I learned that being self-deprecating and self-degrading is another form of pride. And it's something to then work on and ask God to help that in your heart.
00:47:15
Speaker
I started checking that in low moments because I tend to do a lot of self-deprecating humor. I think it can be harmless, but I started really catching myself. It can apply anywhere. It can apply in your friendships. It can apply in your dating life, your marriage, your relationship with your parents.
00:47:33
Speaker
Any time that I let my emotions get the best of me, I'll do an example with friendships because that's kind of what we're talking about. But like if a group, if I come around the corner and a group's in a circle snickering and I'm like, they're probably laughing about me again. Have they ever laughed about you? Has there ever been any evidence that your friends are doing that? And then you go up to the group and they're like, oh, like,
00:47:55
Speaker
you know, so-and-so did something really funny and we were, it wasn't about you, but you immediately made it about yourself and it wasn't. So I really started working on that with God. And Beth, I don't know if, I know you said you still maybe struggle with shyness. So I just try to really catch myself in those moments where I'm like, is this a valid concern for like my actual safety, my physical safety, or is this me being prideful and making the situation about myself? And I heard,
00:48:21
Speaker
I heard this other business entrepreneurship podcast where they talk about that's the same deal with imposter syndrome. It's you having inferior pride because you're caring too much about what your clients think about and not the service you're providing to them and anything like that. And so you have to let that go and walk into it being like, I provide this service. I know I do it well because of the education I've invested in it. If the client has something negative to say about my appearance or my personality, that's on them, it's not on me.
00:48:49
Speaker
I don't even know what to say right now. My mind is blown. It's crazy inferior pride in my life. I will try to find a sermon on it because they word it probably way better than I could, but that's the idea.
00:49:03
Speaker
Oh, no, I love what you said. Dude, the one thing you said too, pride is ultimately self-occupation. Holy cow. Holy cow, that's so true. And that lined up so well with what we've been talking about the last five minutes, I think, because so many examples of us thinking at the gym, everyone's looking at us. Really, why do you think everyone's looking at you? What do you think is so special about you that everyone's looking at you? Or taking pictures at a new place. It doesn't matter. No one cares. You're not a celebrity. Dude, that is so...
00:49:32
Speaker
I love humbling yourself and not humbling because people also think humbling as in I have to be like, oh, I'm not that great. I'm not humbling is not thinking less of yourself. It's just thinking of yourself less. Oh my gosh. What? Yeah. Come up with that. That is it. You just out there saying I'm not that's why I'm not that wise. Oh my gosh. What? Wait, that's amazing. Wait, humility isn't thinking less of yourself. It's thinking of yourself less.
00:49:59
Speaker
So even in those situations where you're like, oh, what are you going to think of me? What am I going to do me? Just take a pause, observe what everyone else is doing. And like you're putting the spotlight on yourself and then it'll come out in your actions too. You're going to be the one sitting in the corner. You're going to be the one moping. And now the attention's on you because you're being weird. Yeah, exactly. Oh, man, this is so good. I think that you just poured in some wisdom that number one, I wish I had, you know, 10 years ago.
00:50:27
Speaker
It's still a good reminder no matter where people are in their life because I think sometimes even not shy people have moments of, like you said, this applies to also imposter syndrome. They have moments of being shy or having imposter syndrome start to creep in. That's a really, really great way of saying that. I honestly feel like you just totally summed that up so well. I don't feel like I have much else to say on this talk.
00:50:51
Speaker
Well, yeah, no, I really enjoyed this because I know it started out kind of with your story in it and you're overcoming it, but it was just cool to see how it unfolded because I kind of forgot some moments where I used to be nervous like that until I remembered.
00:51:03
Speaker
like yeah the gym and healing from past like unfortunate friendships so I kind of forgot about some of that which is good which means it's been like in the past for a while but I just really yeah I really hope that encourages other people listening because when I learned about that like inferior pride and stuff and overall like I said getting into mindset a lot more sometimes it is a
00:51:26
Speaker
harsh decision of I am not going to be this way anymore. And of course it doesn't apply to everything. There's really hard things like addiction and severe mental health problems that are going to take a lot more work than that. But generally a lot of the problems where you're worrying about yourself and your life can be solved with a mindset change.
00:51:43
Speaker
of deciding I'm done feeling this way and what are the actions I can take to live that out? Who are people that can keep me accountable in that? I like that. What are the actions we can take to live that out? Because it's not going to be an overnight change. You can make the decision overnight and start having or start seeing change the next day. But it's also going to take, it's still a battle. It's going to take decisions every day to make that come into play.
00:52:05
Speaker
Yeah, all right. Well, we will certainly share a more concise summary of what we said here on Instagram of our tips for this because we really enjoyed just chat about this, but we had some wisdom we wanted to impart and some tips for getting over being shy, whether it's just for your personal life or if you have a job that requires that. So be sure to follow us on Instagram at Art of Intention Podcast.
00:52:29
Speaker
and be sure to tune in next week for another episode. If you want to look at our other past episodes, you can find us on Spotify, Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, and on Zencaster, wherever you find your podcasts. Yeah, we'd love for you to listen and give us a rating, and then comment. Always reach out to us if you have any new ideas. You can email us at artofintentionpodcast.gmail.com. Yep, we will see you guys there. Bye.
00:53:00
Speaker
you