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S2 E2 - Teodora Hadjiyska is Explorer, Mountaineer and Dyatlov Pass Expert (Part 2)
8 Plays8 days ago
Part two of the this massive Double header with Teodora Hadjiyska
The year is 1959, 9 Hikers found dead, some with suspicious injuries, a torn tent, ripped from the inside
What do you think caused them to die
Recommended
Transcript
Intro
Introduction to Dyatlov Pass Incident
00:00:11
Teddy
Thank you.
00:00:12
Lee Hatfield
Hello, everybody, and welcome to part two of the episode with Teddy. Teddy is a traveler, explorer, a mountaineer, and one of the world's experts on the Dyatlov Pass.
00:00:28
Lee Hatfield
For all those that don't know, the Dyatlov Pass incident was an unsolved 1959 mystery in the Ural Mountains of Russia, where nine hikers died in bizarre circumstances.
00:00:42
Lee Hatfield
In the first episode, Teddy was so full of information. I didn't like to interrupt. I know I like talking, but i think i've got I think I've got somebody that equals my amount of talking. So, Teddy, we actually left off where you just finished explaining about the injuries occurred to the nine individuals.
00:01:04
Lee Hatfield
So before I start asking you the questions, is there any part of that story that you want to complete?
Analyzing the Hikers' Injuries and Survival
00:01:12
Teddy
As a takeaway from the first part, I want to start with the wide the range of injuries that the hikers from that group suffered.
00:01:25
Teddy
and If we can say that three of them died in the span of 20 minutes after the impact of whatever hit them, then we do not have any explanation why couldn't the rest of the group survive. And the only similar accidents that I have witnessed and come across are when a tree falls on top of a tent then one can die and another person can just walk away but frightened screaming his heads off and his head off and uh it's a very traumatic experience for the surviving uh from incident like that because nothing can prepare you for a fallen tree and three of the hikers died one had uh
00:02:23
Teddy
cave-themed skull, and the other two who had broken ribcages. I'm talking about multiple fractured ribs, broken ribs in a way that only something big and flat can, with a big speed, have hit the bodies. And nothing like that was found around them.
00:02:51
Teddy
And, uh, what happens in a situation like that is the surviving people are trying to help the ones that are dying. And the fact that the tent was cut from inside could be explained with, uh, how they wanted to get out from under a fallen tree.
00:03:13
Teddy
And, uh, If you are under a fallen tree, nothing can pull you out of there. So what I think is that after trying to help them and witnessing their agony, they were in the only direction in which a a help could come is the sky because 300 kilometers into the wilderness of the northern Urals. There were a lot of aircrafts that were serving the geologists, the military, the there was a lot of traffic there. There is one time when Igor Dyatlov, and that was in 1958, when he was with the same tent and they were in the the
00:04:05
Teddy
northern Urals and they were trying to have a map of the route and then one of the pilots that was working for the geologist there said, what? You're going to redraw all this whole map that's on the wall?
00:04:23
Teddy
Come with me on my but on my flight and you're going to see from the sky where the taiga ends and where starts just snow and you won't have firewood and where you can, you know, just look from the up in the sky, how the terrain is. So this is how often the, the aircrafts were flying. Well, the interesting part about that trek is that, uh,
00:04:52
Teddy
Igor Dyatlov and another guy went on that flight and then went to the location where the pilot was going and then the weather worsened and they were totally disconnected from the rest of the group.
Theories and Debates: UFOs, Avalanches, and More
00:05:07
Teddy
Anyway, so this is how oh this how it was. There was no other traffic in the area, but there were flights in the sky and In my book, for the first time with my co-author who died even before the book was published, unfortunately, and the book is in his memo in his memory, we found maps of airplanes that were flying for the geologist, for the survey from the air for uranium on this particular
00:05:44
Teddy
month and year and they're all the magnetic anomalies that the area is known for is something that at the time was considered to be a sign for that there is uranium there. I don't know if this is still true to this day, haven't talked to the geologists, but this is what they were following at the time, the magnetic lines. This is why now the drones and all of the devices that rely on GPS are malfunctioning on the Dyatlov Pass. I mean, this is a known of the fact that there is magnetic anomaly there. so when
00:06:25
Teddy
I went there and i saw the terrain and you feel so small, like a speck of the universe and like that's the end of the world. And if something happens to you and if you're like if you something happens to you, i don't know how you help yourself, but if you're trying to help someone.
00:06:46
Teddy
the air The sky is the only place where a help can come. So this is what i think they were trying to climb up, not to the tent, but to the reach to signal the passing aircrafts at the time. So there are a lot of aspects of this... incident that i I believe you should first see, read, hear more information before you start adopting and liking some theories because there's so much interesting information about this case.
00:07:16
Teddy
Don't start forming and adhering to a theory right away because you're going to be limiting yourself of details because after that, you will be just not paying so much attention to any details that don't fit that theory. So this is not a way to approach this incident.
00:07:40
Lee Hatfield
okay so yeah i know that you've appeared on uh expedition unknown with uh josh gates nearly called him jeff then but it's name it's josh gates and there's so many different uh theories about what happened some of them are a little bit more far-fetched like aliens or ufos but I know most recent, the most compelling theory is the slab avalanche.
00:08:17
Lee Hatfield
Now, you're mountaineer. I don't know much about slab avalanches, but if it speaks for itself that it is a slab avalanche, surely...
00:08:29
Lee Hatfield
if that came down they the side where the tent was, surely that tent would be completely destroyed rather than stuff still stacked in it and the the tent still semi-erect, so to speak.
00:08:46
Lee Hatfield
So what's your theory on that?
00:08:49
Teddy
That's not the weakest point of the Slav avalanche theory that the tent would be destroyed. First of all, that's not a recent theory, that's the first theory.
00:08:58
Teddy
The first theory that ever existed is the avalanche, because what can kill someone on the slope of of a mountain during winter?
00:08:59
Lee Hatfield
Okay. Okay.
00:09:08
Teddy
I mean, it's a slav, it's an avalanche. They didn't call it Slav then, they just call it an avalanche that didn't go further down. It's just some kind of a weird avalanche, right?
00:09:18
Lee Hatfield
okay
00:09:21
Teddy
And the wrong way to approach to disprove this theory is that avalanche cannot fall there. No, I mean, Avalanche, who knows? Avalanches can fall anywhere. There avalanches one kilometer to the left, three kilometers to the right. The Swiss researchers proved it with the model, the Disneyland, that avalanches can fall in the mountains, in the Ural. I mean, come on, avalanches can fall. Okay, but then if we can get into the particulars of this incident, let's say the terrain. The terrain, they say there is something that can accumulate snow above the tent. And then when that thing breaks and then that they dug up the snow cover, so they weaken the structure of the snow. And so they can bring, I mean, we can bring a lot of
00:10:18
Teddy
Don't get me wrong. I want to prove. I want this case to be solved. But when we're talking about something that happened to the tent, you have to follow the hikers down for two hours into the ravine where they died. So just saying that on top of the tent, there was a snow slab.
00:10:41
Teddy
I'm for that because that explains why they could they couldn't get to the to the egg from the exit, but they were afraid, so they cut up the tent. That explains it
00:10:56
Teddy
Then, in the same year, the Swiss model that explained how an avalanche, snow slab avalanche can happen there, and the prosecutors of Ekaterinburg of Sverdlovsk They went in 2019 to the Diablo Pasto location and then they made their measurements comparing the photos from 59 and so on. And their conclusion was the same, snow slab.
00:11:25
Teddy
But then they tried to explain how the hikers died. So what they did, the prosecutors, they said that after cutting the tent, they distanced themselves from the tent, waiting for the avalanche to continue or something to happen. And because it was very a whiteout, they couldn't find the tent back. So they they couldn't get back to the tent because they couldn't see it. They didn't find it And here is where the weakest point of this theory, in my opinion, comes. Why would the hikers go down exactly on the path of an alleged avalanche? Because they don't know if it's a slab that's going to stop there. They just heard, because this is why they that they came out of the tent, They heard that the snow starts cracking and goes down. i have been in avalanche. I have heard that crack. I know what it feels. I mean, you run away. You panic. You run away. You want to get out of the way of the compromised snow cover. That's natural. that's Everybody knows that. Why would they go down next to each other, holding hands, talking slowly,
00:12:50
Teddy
exactly where the the avalanche can continue. That doesn't make sense to me. And I'm not even getting to the point, how is this snow slab hurting them in the way they were hurt?
00:13:05
Teddy
Because every theory that gets them out of the tent, for some reason, to me, the snow slab and the, how to say,
00:13:18
Teddy
the process of how it fell, it's very interesting on its own. and It should be a paper, a scientific paper on its own, not related to the Dyatlov Pass because it's a very weird snow slab phenomenon that occur in places where you don't expect avalanches, period.
00:13:37
Teddy
Because that did not happen with the Dyatlov case. because we have photos of the tent. We have the whole area when it was photographed in 59. We have so many helicopters. There is no trace of any avalanche.
00:13:54
Teddy
And then if they were, because if they didn't die there, I mean, they were not hurt there because they died. If they were brought school caved in skulls and ribcages flattened, then they die, 15 minutes after they started going down because there is no reason to drag bodies, right? They were dead by the time they decided to go down. There are no any evidences of dragging anything down. But let's say if they tried to help them, so they put them on their shoulders and they tried to get them out of the tent when they were injured, then why are they going
00:14:38
Teddy
Why didn't they move them behind the rocks that are right 500 meters next on the ridge, where it's easy and even to go? Why are they going in a direction they don't know what's down there? They could just hide them behind the rock, the landmark of the Yatlov Pass. there is I mean, there is a wind shadow there, and they have seen it because they came from there. So, and if you have traumas like that, you don't move the bodies. There is no way that you can help them. They cannot, because of the adrenaline or miraculously, just hop and start limping down on their own or even support it. There is not any evidence of that. And even
00:15:19
Teddy
the fact that they didn't stop at the first trees in the forest. No, they continued. They continued. They went down the ravine. They went up and then they stopped at the tall tree, a see the cedar tree. That's the the other landmark for the case. So basically they went a very long, they went a mile with these injured people.
00:15:43
Teddy
They didn't lay them down under the first trees where, let's say, that the wind was not blowing so hard. So if we start counting the the weak points of this theory, to me is that we have photos and we have witnesses, the first people that went there, that there was no avalanche.
00:16:07
Teddy
The tent was sticking up. up I don't even believe that the Dyatlov tent was put there by the group because there was there were precedents even in 1958 when they pitched a tent in a treeless zone. But then there are additional robes that you have to put to secure the tent. It's a very old tent. You can't just leave it on ski poles. This is how it was found.
00:16:33
Teddy
I mean, just propped on ski poles. And supposedly that tent stayed there for a month. with brutal wind and elements and everything.
00:16:43
Teddy
It was just that it stayed there for a month, didn't fell down. Even with with nothing, that tent should be covered with snow.
00:16:53
Teddy
Just the weather is there, not when it's bad or when it's there extreme winds or something. It just won't survive on the ridge.
00:17:04
Teddy
So the way the tent was found,
00:17:04
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:17:06
Teddy
to me contradicts absolutely that it was a pitched there a month prior. Also, we have a flashlight on top of the tent, which was put on 10 centimeters of snow, but there was no at single snowflake on top of the of the flashlight. There were traces of urination next to the tent. I mean, these things cannot survive a month of severe weather which is usual for the reach for the Ural Reach. and But that's not the just against the the snow slab or the avalanche or whatever snow event happen in that theory. I allow it. I say, okay, let's hit the tent with the snow slab that's stopped there and then they drag the people, the bodies down for a mile
00:18:04
Teddy
Let's presume even that, maybe it's not probable, but it's possible. And they were dragging them dead. And I don't believe that the footprints were left by the Diablo group. That means that their real trucks were blown away. Then somebody else left these footprints. Let's say everything happened like that. That means that they were thinking, they were planning, they were trying something, to do something. Then why did they die?
00:18:33
Teddy
i mean I didn't say in the first episode, but very important thing is another group, Sogrin's group, was in the much more difficult track in the northern Urals.
00:18:51
Teddy
And two of the hikers from the Dyatlov group were supposed to go with them, Zina and Zolotaryov. They just opted out for different reasons.
Hikers' Backgrounds and Capabilities
00:19:01
Teddy
so Zina, I don't know why, she didn't she says she didn't expect Dorushenko her...
00:19:10
Teddy
ex-boyfriend to be a part of the group. Maybe she did know. And Zolotoryov wanted a shorter track because he just had a baby. This is what we know nowadays. It was not a known fact until 2018.
00:19:25
Teddy
So they they joined the Dyatlov group. And what I'm saying is that the Sogrin group, the Sogrin track, was much more challenging, long, difficult, and they burned down their tent on the second day.
00:19:38
Teddy
And they did finish their trek and they did make the first winter ascents of Sablea and some other very tall peaks. So they were prepared. They knew what to do if they have to abandon tents.
00:19:52
Teddy
So these people, even one of them burned his boot. So he had to go in Velenki and go throughout the whole trek, which was like two weeks.
00:20:04
Teddy
I why? did the hikers from Jatul group die? Something very extraordinary happened to them. But if they survived the event at the tent and they had the
00:20:23
Teddy
the, how to say, the mind to go down and prepare, make a campfire and dug up the snow cave and make the flooring and everything.
00:20:34
Teddy
Why did they die After that, there was at least they were supposed to die in a better shape, like in one place, grouped, taking care of the injured in a completely different setup.
00:20:48
Teddy
So you have to explain. Actually, it's much more interesting what happened down there, because they did make it alive to the forest, to the ravine. They spent some time there. Even the the people, the the research the researchers, the students that were down in 59, they said that there was a lot more at signs of a lot more activity than nine frozen dying people getting trying to survive making a shelter, leaving
00:21:23
Teddy
I said that my first point is if you go down, why don't stop when you hit the trees? Why go further down where the terrain is much more difficult to call do to overcome and then go down a ravine and they go up the ravine and they continue and drop the bodies there? Doesn't make any sense. I mean, we have to, I went there and this is when I stopped rushing into conclusions. Because it's one thing from the comfort of your home to try to the visual, not to visualize, but to put yourself in a situation like that. You jump to conclusions, but you don't have the whole information. And then when I read the and I actually met with the doctors and some of the survival survivors of
00:22:20
Teddy
Accidents like a fallen tree. Again, I'm not pulling to the fallen tree, which is my theory, because it only explains the trauma and how they died. Because there is a whole second part of that theory.
00:22:31
Teddy
Who would move bodies if they don't kill them? But that's my theory. If we have to go back to the avalanche theory, I am not jumping against can an avalanche fall there or not.
00:22:46
Teddy
On the contrary, I respect the the work that was done. These people spent time and put their minds into it and they proved something. and It's a science. and Okay, but to me, it was not good that they linked a scientific work.
00:23:08
Teddy
They put the batch of the Jatlov pass. That makes it so famous. So to me, it's like all right, it's just an avalanche. Give me a break.
00:23:18
Teddy
Explain how they died. That doesn't explain anything. I mean, okay, snow slab fell and then what?
00:23:22
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:25
Teddy
What happened after that? Because they lived for a mile, two hours, and they made everything possible to survive. So you have to come up with part two of this theory.
00:23:37
Teddy
But that is for any other theory, that it's a natural event on the slope.
00:23:40
Lee Hatfield
yeah
00:23:43
Teddy
What happened after that? Okay, stampede of crazy reindeer went down, stepped on them, on top of them. And then what? They still, they got up.
00:23:54
Teddy
They got their injured injured friends. They helped them down. Why did they get get further than the first trees? I don't know. But they why did they die? why Why did they went all the way down? And then after a while, they decided they need their things from the tent.
00:24:13
Teddy
That doesn't make any sense because they didn't feed the fire for more than 30 minutes. Why? I mean, you made the fire, you have the matches, you have all this fallen firewood. Why don't you have a fire?
00:24:32
Teddy
And then they took the... clothes from the dying people. They first died and they they clothed them and started ripping them off and wrapping them around their because this is how they were found. the The clothes that were taken from the bodies were not on any bodies in one piece. They were either found in the snow or wrapped around their legs or broken in pieces. like It's not like I'm taking your coat and putting it on me. And then we don't even know that the exchange of clothes is exactly as it is explained because there are discrepancies, controversies in the case files, volume one and two. And so we don't know who is wearing what, but we have to account for some chaos, some mismatch. So I'll leave it at that because even now, the last episode in which I was also invited of the Russian Malachov episodes, Federal Channel One, there was the big sensation. Well, we see here on the photo that Zolotaryov was put, there was a cap like a leather
00:25:49
Teddy
Ana de next to the head like right here, then as key Nazi who is sitting next to me on the on the TV show says no, they were they have nothing on their heads and their hair his hair was falling apart well, but he's the one who put you to the beginning in a hole. and then next day came all these people and they were just photographing from the trees what's going on there. So they, he couldn't know, first of all he saw the head of Tibor, not Zolotaryov. Then it was a mess of dead bodies under the snow in the creek. So he can't account of who was wearing what. But we see a photo of the bodies right next to the river, not after they went to Moscow and back. I mean, not to Moscow, I'm kidding, to Ivdo.
00:26:36
Teddy
that there is a hat right here. And then in the autopsy report, it says that he was wearing not one, but two caps. How come is the big question.
00:26:49
Teddy
Why is he wearing hats when we see that it's not completely on his head? Really? Is that the most strange thing about this case? And then Ivanov, but why I'm saying all that? Ivanov says in his scrap, there is a scrap of paper, and he says that Lutaryov is wearing Luda's
00:27:14
Teddy
green cap.
00:27:17
Teddy
But in the autopsy report, the body, the in his head is described with a red cap, green, red. Who did it belong to? i mean, those are details. But the thing is that first, the investigation was sloppy because the whole sensation after this, well, what's up with the heads on top of Zelotaryov is that The investigation should not, if you find, well, but they touch the body. See, that's the thing. Because if you find the body, and the coroner is supposed to look, take pictures, okay, the body is wearing the hat or not. But then if you pull the body and put the hat next to the hat, they're not supposed to put it on top of the hat and then describe it on on the autopsy report.
00:28:04
Teddy
But that's, I mean, the whole investigation is totally sloppy. So that's not a big break in the case. Anyways, those are the details that I end up talking about every time when I start with the snow slab, because that's not even interesting. I mean, a snow slab is possible in the mountain, but doesn't explain anything in this case. It doesn't explain the injuries, doesn't explain how they get down and especially why did they die, because it has nothing to do with the snow slab.
00:28:37
Teddy
Now, the prosecutors came up with the another thing, on on another layer.
00:28:38
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:28:43
Teddy
They came up with the second snow slab down in the river. Like they were in the den and then a piece of snow broke from the bank of the river and hit them.
00:28:58
Teddy
And this is they how they died. The original investigation is talking about a grotto. It's like like a some kind of an air bubble under the snow and that it flattened.
00:29:09
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:29:10
Teddy
It just fell and fell on top of them and it was crushing them. so which to me, again, doesn't explain why didn't they dug up the people from under the fallen snow, where were they going? I mean, the same questions remain. So the snow slab, it is what it is, but it's not new.
00:29:39
Teddy
That's my bottom line. It's not new.
00:29:41
Lee Hatfield
OK.
00:29:42
Teddy
It has been looked into. There are books, if you like it. Go for it.
00:29:49
Lee Hatfield
OK, so let's just go back to the victims again. So you mentioned that some of the victims were wearing parts of the clothes of the other people that died. I'm not an expert, but is it possible that if they tried to remove the clothes from the people that was already dead, is it possible that those clothes were so frozen to the body that that's why there was only partial parts of those clothes around the the other people? Like, they couldn't get it off because it was frozen to the body, so maybe they had to cut it off the person to... So that that then created parts of the other clothes?
00:30:39
Teddy
But they were frozen already on the body, so they broke it off, cut it off. I mean, the question is why couldn't they get the whole pants but just a pant leg, something like that.
00:30:49
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, yeah. yeah
00:30:58
Teddy
Here is my answer. What I think doesn't matter. I'm not an expert. I have never taken clothes from a frozen body. If I agree or disagree with something, it doesn't count for nothing.
00:31:13
Teddy
I can tell you right now what the what I think is going to happen to a frozen body if I try to get clothes from it.
00:31:26
Teddy
And I don't believe, but see, the clothes that were exchanged were from two bodies that died at the same time because they were victims of the same blow.
00:31:48
Teddy
This is Tibo and Ljuda and they were, one is with the caved in skull, the other one with is with the flattened chest.
00:31:59
Teddy
So to me, it's like not even at the beginning, we were looking at the who wears whose clothes, like a chronological track of who died first.
00:32:13
Teddy
And it didn't make any sense. Then we started arguing actually how accurate is the exchange of clothes. But to get back, because I'm just boring time here to come up with an answer to your question, if you manage to get a frozen piece of a frozen cloth, piece of cloth of of of a body, you won't be able to actually wrap it because it's still going to be hard.
00:32:43
Lee Hatfield
Martin Hoerlinger- phoenix yeah. Hoerlinger- that makes sense.
00:32:46
Teddy
But to me, even getting into the scenario of getting clothes from dead bodies knowing the psychology and uh just the way it feels when somebody's dying it's to me it's absurd uh there is even it so one body that was they found unbuttoned jackets they found gloves somebody else's gloves in his pocket i mean
00:33:17
Teddy
you first you button up your jacket and put your gloves before you start ripping off the underpants of a dead hiker to me it doesn't make sense to take i mean that part uh and even with my grandiose theory uh i cannot explain any details meaning not that i cannot explain them but i'm not insisting
00:33:30
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, okay
00:33:44
Teddy
that this is how it happened. How would I know? How would I know? i mean, this is a very extraordinary sequence of very strange events, or at least two or three, because what I think, see, we're discussing here, ripping off frozen heart clothing. When I'm thinking about bodies taken from one place, taken to the morgue, then taken back,
00:34:14
Teddy
And the clothes mixed up in the morgue of a redressing. And to me, a bigger question is why? Because it's possible to tear clothes, to put them, to do something with them.
00:34:29
Teddy
But the bigger question is because everybody agrees on one thing. They were positioned like they didn't die exactly like that as they were found.
00:34:45
Teddy
So did they move each other? i mean, like someone dies and then they put them behind the tree because they couldn't look at them anymore because they ripped off their pants.
00:34:57
Teddy
and But on the other side of the tree is the fire. And why didn't they just warm up themselves on the fire? No, they went up and died trying to get on top towards the tent.
00:35:13
Teddy
There's so many questions about this. So ask me another one. I don't think I answered well on this one because I don't know.
00:35:21
Lee Hatfield
Okay, so let's change tack a little bit. So you mentioned that you've actually heard the crack of an avalanche, but you also mentioned in the first episode that there were severe winds.
00:35:38
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, and that that was an ideal location for the wind to be really severe. Would you still be able to hear the crack of the avalanche above the sound of the severe winds.
00:35:52
Teddy
That's a good question. Yes. First of all, my avalanche was not on the Gatlov Pass. I was in an avalanche in Bulgaria, in our mountains, and the day was absolutely sunny. The the worst day went when the sun is very strong and the everything is melting down. And actually, the the boys, the big boys went scaling. Ana de Bettencourt- Ice waterfall that went scaling and the children and the women and the weak people like me, we went just trailing into the forest. So above the forest, we were Bettencourt- Keeping all of the rules for avalanche. Ana de Bettencourt- From terrain weather. 20 meters between us distance and so on. But then at some point there was a very strong wind, but not the winds that we're talking in Northern Ural. And one of my friends, one of, she's like 40 kilos and she was, she felt like she's going to be blown away by the wind and the very sunny day, right? But just strong wind.
00:37:08
Teddy
And she just, she,
00:37:12
Teddy
Falling down, she crouched down, she said, I'm not continuing. And then my my husband, he wasn't my husband, but why did I marry him? He said, let's let's gather everybody here, come here, I'm on top of the ridge, so let's we're going decide which way we go down, because it's really dangerous to go the way we came.
00:37:33
Teddy
And we all gathered there like cherries and we broke the avalanche. So it turned out that we're in a very big hole in the mountains, like a cravat.
00:37:45
Teddy
I mean, it's like a, what do you call it? Well, it's a very big hollow place and all of the snow was covering it and we just gathered all of us and it broke and it was like, and we were all under the snow from like three meters, big chunk of, uh, snow was rolling down and I was in the dark and I cursed like hell and so it stopped right before falling into the void where we will be all dead so I was in the dark I was covered totally covered and then someone did not get into the avalanche so I know that the avalanche can go right in front of you and just passing in front of his toes and he start started digging us up and that friend of mine who was 40 kilos with wet clothes, she she said the moment when the avalanche started, aye I was thinking, I mean, now I'm talking about myself, I was thinking, oh, I saw some trees over there, like fir trees, and I jumped in that direction so maybe I can get caught into the fir trees and not being dragged by the avalanche.
00:37:51
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:38:54
Teddy
and she thought i'm gonna jump towards steady so they can find us together when they look for us they can find us together and the the snow stopped we were dragged like 200 meters the snow stopped but i still heard the cracking and i was in the dark and So everybody ended up with their part of their heads above the snow, only me under the snow. And then they started the shouting, Tay, where is Teddy? Teddy is, I don't see her. And my friend started beating the snow. She's here, she's next to me. And I heard her, these hits that she was pointing where I am started again the the moving the snow.
00:39:43
Teddy
And I started to shouting at her to stop doing that. And my leg was turned badly with the snowshoe. So they started digging me up. And then at some point they said, here, here, I'm saying my leg, my leg, I broke my leg. And they they found the leg, they freed up and said, here, here, your leg is fine. It's not broken.
00:40:07
Teddy
And Alex said, That's my leg. it's so good anyway Anyway, so back to the wind. You have a point, but we don't really have a evidence.
00:40:22
Teddy
What was the wind? Yeah, you are right. If you are inside the tent, You won't hear the the cracking of the snow. But the speculation is because some of them had the valenki that someone actually went out for i don't know what. And because they were not using the stove that night, it was found in his case, in its case wasn't used. so And they said, well, he went to pee. And if you're out in the strong winds like a hurricane strength winds and you're peeing,
00:40:58
Teddy
I don't know to tell you the truth, I have never peed in a hurricane's strong winds to hear a novel jumping up. I don't know if you can hear it or not.
00:41:07
Lee Hatfield
Okay, okay. So on the same kind of theory, there's also the infrasound theory that the wind caused low frequency infrasound.
00:41:19
Lee Hatfield
And as we as a lot of people know, infrasound can cause panic, anxiety and dis disorientation. So what's your thoughts on the infrasound theory?
00:41:32
Teddy
Well, the infrasound make them want to get out of that place. and let's say I, first of all, I haven't suffered infrasound discomfort in my life, so I don't know what it feels like, but that is something, first of all, that is Borzenkov theory who himself abandoned it long, long, long time ago. It doesn't matter that Donnie Eckhart wrote the book on based on that theory, but that's all Borzenkov's words. And even the creator of this theory, he doesn't support it. mean, for many, many years now.
00:42:11
Teddy
And if you are going out, it doesn't, I haven't read anywhere that you become a maniac killer to start hitting people. But even if you do, let's say you go you go crazy, there is nothing to hit your,
00:42:30
Teddy
comrades to cause the the trauma. But whoever talks about this theory, they usually say that this is what makes them abandon the tent. So, but I mean, come on, you can't use the door, you have to cut up the tent. And then usually you're, this is how I imagine the scenario of the infrasound discomfort. that you're just trying, you go without any du direction, trying to get away from this horrible thing that is causing you to feel strange.
00:43:05
Teddy
But they were not straying away in different, they were just going together down but with no shoes. I mean, what kind of discomfort is that, that you ban you don't put shoes, but then you don't run from it?
00:43:18
Teddy
And then again, my same questions. So if you get away from the infrasound, because that's, first of all, infrasound goes away in a while, I guess. And then it doesn't, it's not covering that much of a area, I guess. Again, I'm not an expert in infrasound, but again, what happens after they get to the forest with the infrasound?
00:43:42
Teddy
What killed them? what What actually broke their skulls and rib cages?
00:43:48
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:43:48
Teddy
Because infrasound
00:43:48
Lee Hatfield
No. OK.
00:43:51
Teddy
cannot cause that. I mean, trees don't fall from infrasound and there is no, I mean, the investigation was true to the fact that there was no crime, no one killed anybody. So what caused their death?
00:44:08
Teddy
I believe, I mean, I'm not opposed to infrasound starting a snow slab. Let's leave it at that.
00:44:16
Lee Hatfield
okay
00:44:17
Teddy
Okay, so there was a, Infrasound that caused the snow slough. Yet, they're not dead yet.
00:44:22
Lee Hatfield
Right. OK. Yeah. And yeah, we keep going back to the fact that the tent was cut from the inside, but then they seem to walk in an orderly manner.
00:44:37
Lee Hatfield
down the hillside. So if you're going to walk in an orderly manner down the hillside, why cut the tent? Why not just take a few moments to undo the toggles or which yeah whatever device they had to seal the tent?
00:44:52
Lee Hatfield
So yeah, that doesn't make any sense. if you're You're only going to cut the side of a tent out in a moment of panic. But then if there's a moment of panic to get outside the tent, that panic doesn't just dissipate straight away for you to then go, OK, we're good now. We're now going to walk down side by side down down the slope.
00:45:18
Teddy
Even if they run in a panic in different directions, but then they saw that nothing so bad is happening and they were able in orderly manner continue down the slope.
00:45:32
Teddy
Why not take their hats? Let's say the shoes, they can find them. Take something. They didn't take anything from their clothes, from their gear, from their nothing.
00:45:46
Teddy
They were found in a way that you would run out of a tent. If you're you're sleeping, something startled you and you run out of the tent.
00:45:59
Teddy
This is how they were clothed.
00:46:00
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:46:02
Teddy
So let's say that happened, but then they could go back and take something even, hey, you can fold the tent.
00:46:14
Teddy
and take it with you and just move it into the forest by the way there are a lot of interesting things for example the pieces of the tent there were pieces of the tent that were not described in 59 to be found with the tent then again we're the tent how the tent was transported the students put everything on top of the tent like they took everything out then flattened the tarpaulin the tent they put everything on top of the tent they manually dragged everything for half a mile to the landing site of the helicopter so big piece of the tent big chunk of this tent that was cut out was missing and
00:47:08
Teddy
could be because they didn't care they lost it it was you know it was windy uh dark they that continue in the span and they still didn't they had all the bodies they did so they had a lot on their mind and they were not organized not even all the information was given to the people that actually were dragging the tent and looking for the body so They're waiting for some kind of instructions that were never given to them, what to do with the bodies, what to do, where to search. They were just every morning given the probes and said, okay, so you are going to probe this parcel and come back and go again and come back. And then if you find something, come to me and tell me.
00:47:55
Teddy
That's all the instructions they were given. And then we have this tent. which no photos, no nothing. And they were just putting, they were just trying to get everything they could back to the helicopter so somebody else is going to take it out and deal with it because they didn't. And i people say, well, what's a piece of tent?
00:48:15
Teddy
Well, even the prosecutor, Sredovsk prosecutor in 2019, he said, well, this is what they were using to actually get the tent out of the snow slab.
00:48:26
Teddy
But wait a minute, the tent is propped up. There is no sign that it was pulled or dragged or transport. I mean, even attempt to move a tent in some way. Everything was just hanging like that.
00:48:42
Teddy
But a piece of the tent is missing, so where is that piece of tent?
00:48:46
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, good question.
00:48:46
Teddy
To me, is more important.
00:48:49
Teddy
So what was, did I answer the question? You were just saying, why what was that exactly?
00:48:49
Lee Hatfield
So
00:48:53
Lee Hatfield
yeah, yeah.
00:48:54
Teddy
What was that that made them cut the tent, not use the exit, and then just
00:48:54
Lee Hatfield
okay
00:49:01
Teddy
stand in the organ, everybody was just looking at the tent, not approaching the tent.
00:49:03
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:49:06
Teddy
See, and I can tell you one of the, there is a theory about a skunk, well, type of animal, not skunk, wolverine, that was making, well, I'm not sure that the wolverine actually emits that scent, but some kind of animal like that, that was, made its way into the tent because it smelled the food and then was startled and stuck up, stinked up the tent so they cut it up because they couldn't breathe it anymore and they went out just so it doesn't to stop the stench, right?
00:49:43
Teddy
And then why not even say someone farted so badly they had to cut them to ten? I mean,
00:49:49
Lee Hatfield
I was just about to mention that. It could could have been that somebody fired. We need to get out really quick.
00:49:56
Teddy
and go down to the forest because they couldn't and that topped with the infrasound.
00:49:58
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. So let's go into some of the more random theories. So there's a report that there was...
00:50:12
Lee Hatfield
orange lights in the sky. So maybe that could either be military testing, an explosion of some description, or let's go more random and go, yeah aliens.
00:50:26
Lee Hatfield
But then how can some of them, and and i you kind of mentioned it a little bit in the first episode, have radiation traces on their clothes and some of them not? I know in the first episode you mentioned that somebody yeah A few of them are working with radiation, but you wouldn't be wearing the clothes if they've got radiation contamination. You'd get fresh clothes to go on the hike.
00:50:55
Lee Hatfield
So yeah orange lights and radiation...
00:50:59
Teddy
I talked to someone that's expert on safety on nuclear things, plants and stuff. And she read everything and her opinion is that the way that the studies, like the lab experiments were in that that time in 59,
00:51:27
Teddy
that there was not much of a discipline that was applied, even judging by the fact that there were no women nuclear physicists students.
00:51:38
Teddy
And the laboratory where they were doing experiments, we're talking about the Ural Polytechnic Institute, the nuclear physicist department. The laboratory, to get to the laboratory, you had to go underground and go some distance. And there is, so the laboratory was underground and there were no women allowed there.
00:51:59
Teddy
So this to me speaks that they were not sure if they're taking all the precautions needed because the women need to be protected.
Lights, Military Testing, and Radiation: Skepticism and Speculation
00:52:08
Teddy
And even if everything was in place, maybe there were the the students were just not so doing everything to protect from something that they could get during the lab things, testings and stuff. So to she said, she suggested, she offered this opinion that to her, that's not part of the Kishtim disaster or a leak from, because it was it was brutal. They were cleaning, there were, i mean, a lot of precautions were taken after that and everybody knew that they shouldn't get anything out More likely, now one of the girls, Zina, she was from a village that was right under the tail of the contamination after Kishtin.
00:53:04
Teddy
But again, they did clean up and there they should be more things contaminated if that was were the case. So she said maybe they were their clothes were contaminated during the studies.
00:53:22
Teddy
And, but the question was about the light events phenomenon in the skies.
00:53:25
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:53:30
Teddy
Now, reports were made for that time by people that live there and they're used to all kinds of a polar things, lights in the sky.
00:53:42
Teddy
So there was something different. There was something more to that. Even the fact that some of the clippings from the newspapers after that were taken down, I mean, these things were banned. and But the time was, the regime was trying not to make public anything that will cause some anxiety and feeling not happy because of the new social
00:54:14
Teddy
order and everything like they shouldn't feel insecurity that something in the sky may harm them and something may go it's not known to the upper party what it is so there were lights in the sky that's a fact even in the case files there reports from the meteorology station uh that there were something objects that were moving in the sky, which obviously were it UFOs that nobody knew what they were. So there were, of course, the easiest thing was to say that the the the military is doing something and this is going to end all the questions because military was not responding to any questions. Is it safe?
00:55:08
Teddy
Of course it's safe. We are taking care of our people. So if there are military, then they they couldn't get any further information or nothing. But there was a there there was officially radiogram asking by the searchers because they were in the tent, someone went out, saw a flying object in the sky, everybody was scared, but they weren't scared. That's the point, that flying objects, in of some lights in the sky,
00:55:37
Teddy
They don't affect people like that. they do They don't even run away. They were just staring at it and nothing happens. Lights in the sky don't kill you, don't make you want to run away. that You just are mesmerized by it and you keep looking at it and it disappears.
00:55:55
Teddy
No one felt sick, upset, threatened, but because they were looking for bodies, they sent a telegram asking, is there are there any experiments, anything, because we saw this in the sky, this is official radiogram in the gas valves.
00:56:12
Teddy
Should we be worried about something? Should we know about something? And this is what me and my co-author Igor Pavlov, we thought that maybe because there were so many light events in the sky,
00:56:28
Teddy
And because there was this competition with the United States about military testing, new nuclear but testing, development of bombs and stuff, that they were very, on how to say, uneasy about espionage,
00:56:51
Teddy
or that somebody might develop something that's an unknown to the other party. And I believe that because of so many sightings of these light events, actually Lefivanov requested the radioactive analysis because he thought that maybe there was something emitting from these lights that were causing, that could cause death.
00:57:22
Teddy
And this is exactly what he talks about in the article that he published 30 years after the events. There was, it's called Lights in the Sky or something like that. And it's about that his apology, especially to the families of Lyudobinin and Zolotaryov, the ones that died in with the bad traumas, broken ribcages, that he didn't finish the job. He didn't do enough to understand what happened. But the the only straight i mean bad thing, that's a normal article to write about. But because, according to his daughter, because she he didn't believe that that's going to raise any interest back to the case, and because at the time UFOs were popular,
00:58:14
Teddy
He said in this article that he saw burned tops of trees, but very localized, and that he believes, that's in the article of the lead investigator 30 years after the events, that he strongly believes, and he asks people to take him seriously, that there were rays of extraterrestrial sources of of energies that were targeting the hikers one by one.
00:58:46
Teddy
Which to me speaks that in his mind, okay, guilt that he didn't do his job or after simmering so many years into the talk, how did they die, how did they die, why they didn't find out, well I think he starts talking again of what he believed at the time.
00:59:10
Teddy
But if my lead investigator starts looking for the cause of death into UFOs and extraterrestrial sources of energy, i would close the case too.
00:59:21
Teddy
Because this is what he was left like a lead. I mean, he wasn't looking anymore on the earth for cause of death. He was looking into the sky. Because there were so many sightings of...
00:59:40
Teddy
lights in the sky. the Kuryakov in 2019 said, okay, so he came up with a scientific paper about snow slab and they actually fired him because when he came public with his conclusion of his investigation, it wasn't an official investigation, it was a a review of the case file.
01:00:05
Teddy
to review if they would if there was any reason to reopen the case. So it wasn't reopened, it was just a review. But in this review, why it happened, that's internal information that I'm going to share with you.
01:00:17
Teddy
After the exclamation, the prosecutors received a letter from a guy
01:00:24
Lee Hatfield
night.
01:00:25
Teddy
who is always looking for sensation and being the spotlight. So he wrote a letter that Zolotryov was not buried, there were bones scattered, he they didn't do a proper job, a respectful job, and reburying him back.
01:00:41
Teddy
And that's the first time when Kurikov actually heard about this case. And like us, he became obsessed. He became exactly obsessed and he started digging into this and because he had the power and there was a statute of limitations and the case couldn't be reviewed. Any expertise, any exclamation, any more, anything couldn't be done and be valid.
01:01:09
Teddy
Like it couldn't be, i mean, you can do whatever you want, but that's not going to be officially accepted by the organs. for, I mean, it's a statute of limitations. Only the prosecutors could review, change, reopen, whatever. And because he was in power to do that, he honestly believed that he can help. I would too. I mean, if I could do that, he was the only person who could do that. But from the very beginning, right from the from the start, he said when they announced that he's going to review the case, they said he's not going to look into a criminal
01:01:48
Teddy
get into criminal reasons into a crime reasons like only natural and they said he's gonna look into a hurricane strength winds avalanche and i and snow slab i mean the three things that uh okay so how how he decided before going there just from reading he he read the case files for a year after announcing that he's going on the pass and he's gone so uh what i'm getting at is that dug into the archives where we don't have access and he had the explanation for the lights in the sky and he said that at that time They were testing some new types of meteorological balloons that were filled with some gas that was glowing.
01:02:45
Lee Hatfield
Bye.
01:02:48
Teddy
I mean, can we believe him or not? This is what he came up as an answer to that, explanation to that. He said that he looked into this problem.
01:03:17
Teddy
They found autopsy reports that are not signed or bodies that were misplaced and were missing for eight months. and There were a lot of things going on like that.
01:03:28
Teddy
It wasn't that they did something extra to sabotage Dyatlov case investigation. there There wasn't anything against resolving.
01:03:39
Teddy
They just couldn't come up with any better explanation. Another thing, there is a thick book called Half-Life of the Dyatlov Group that is based on the theory that this is, okay, he has some plants that are doing something and if they explode, if something bad happens, the way to capture the poisonous gases that will emit in a case of catastrophe, were to fill them into balloons and they go up into the sky. i don't know where and how they dissipate.
01:03:40
Lee Hatfield
Mm-hmm.
01:04:21
Teddy
And then he combines this with the fact that the guy with the baby, the older guy, was some on a mission. He promised to test some new weapon same, I don't remember what exactly, that's supposed to be launched into the sky.
01:04:42
Teddy
And unfortunately, he launched it, he punched one of these balloons without knowing it's there, that a catastrophe like that happened, that it's going...
01:04:52
Teddy
I mean, there's no documents about anything, any catastrophe like that happening. But again, you say government secret and you can come up with anything because it's a secret.
01:05:05
Teddy
So it it it actually broke the balloon.
01:05:05
Lee Hatfield
OK.
01:05:08
Teddy
they inhaled They were exposed to these gases. And it's called a Half-Life of the Gallup Group because they knew about everything that happened and they delayed the search with exactly the time that these elements get out of your system and they cannot be detected during the autopsy anymore.
01:05:30
Teddy
Three-part book like that.
01:05:34
Lee Hatfield
so If a normal trip had happened and we had found nine individuals who had died, then in that kind of environment, you would you would expect signs and symptoms of hypothermia, signs and symptoms of dehydration if they'd not been able to eat or drink,
01:06:05
Lee Hatfield
And you'd probably have signs and symptoms of loss of pain perception. So if you've got hypothermia, you go too close to the fire, you're going to get burned because you can't feel the pain.
01:06:18
Lee Hatfield
If we'd have got nine individuals that just had those signs and symptoms of all what I've just mentioned, this would not be... as big a issue as what it now is. The fact that you've got three individuals that have got massive trauma and then six of them with normal cold weather deaths, for let's put it in it, we wouldn't have a problem.
01:06:51
Lee Hatfield
But because we've got these three that have got massive trauma with no explanation, I'm now going to ask you to try to explain why we've got three that are severely injured and the six natural causes within a cold environment.
01:07:10
Teddy
But that's the easy part.
Teddy's Fallen Tree Theory
01:07:12
Teddy
that's That's the easy part. Yeah, but according to my theory, which I came up on the year 12 of my investigation, and I only learned and gathered so much information because I didn't have any explanation about what you just explained.
01:07:28
Teddy
But judging by my injury and the fact that There were no cars, roads or boulders or any high altitude things from which they could fall. I mean, there were, but they were not found anywhere near them.
01:07:47
Teddy
I was thinking, and this is this started happening after i went to the pass with Josh Gates. I was clueless before that. And suddenly something unlocked in me.
01:08:00
Teddy
And I started thinking, there are trees. Trees are tall trees fall down with tremendous kinetic energy or whatever energy is called.
01:08:13
Teddy
And trees can kill days we know so without being able to explain why is the tent not found anywhere around the trees. That was the breaking point actually any theory should be. I mean, all the theories should be divided not by if it's a crime or natural, because there a lot of them are kind of a mixed.
01:08:38
Teddy
I mean, but what is lights in the sky is what? Natural crime? What? Because all of the the lights in the sky, testing and so on,
01:08:51
Teddy
we have to say, did that kill them or someone killed them after that because they witnessed a secret operation? So I was, I didn't know if it's a secret operation because I can't believe anyone that is coming to clean the witnesses will leave them in state like that because it's like, why kill three of them? after two hours of them trying to get away from the tent anyway so i stopped trying to explain the unexplainable but i just started thinking three there is three okay three could cause that then it came to me that a tree is exactly actually shaping the the the skull thisold the
01:09:49
Teddy
caved in skull and it's exactly if they were laying down in the tent, that's exactly how a tree with one blow caused all of the traumas, all of the trauma, because otherwise you have to kill one of them or he falls.
01:10:07
Teddy
There are even theories that they were going to something very high and one fell like lemmings or what what were these animals that were going and throwing themselves into the sea.
01:10:20
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. Yeah.
01:10:22
Teddy
So one fell down, the other one fell on top of it, the other one fell on top of the two, and then the rest saw that something is not quite right and went around it.
01:10:22
Lee Hatfield
Lemmings. Yeah.
01:10:35
Teddy
So, I mean, i will to me, it sounds like this blow was one, otherwise,
01:10:45
Teddy
had to be three different blows. Why couldn't they get away? Well, some of them did. But anyway, so I just locked my mind on a tree. And the first time I went in summer, because in winter, you're just trying to survive there. I mean, come on, it's really hard. And I wasn't really equipped in the winter to make a research, we went to shoot a movie. So whatever they say, that's what we did.
01:11:18
Teddy
I cannot go off script or something. So in my first to private expedition, my own expedition, I went and here is the cedar tree.
01:11:33
Teddy
The bodies are here. well, there are many fallen trees around. And then I asked, seen a big tree and they're all sitting on a huge cedar 10 meters high all molded with uh moss not molded with with covered with green moss it makes a very nice soft bench to sit and listen about the diatro group and that's so ridiculous because everybody was sitting exactly on the tree of this tree and listen well there is a tree that doesn't prove anything
01:12:07
Teddy
So then i take course from this tree only because a friend of mine, the one with stampmpede a theory is is the dendrology? He had the borer. So I said, could you please take the core from this tree? So he took a core from this tree. I took it from, I went to the dendrology university in Bulgaria. I befriended the professor. Not befriended, just asked him. I said, I'm doing this. And so he he had pity on me and I made his website. So he analyzed them and he said, well,
01:12:41
Teddy
Old trees are, i mean, fallen trees and that old are very tricky. So I don't see a bark. So whatever I can see, and it's a way to compare rings from other trees. And because of the database in Siberia, and I had the core from the living cedar, that guy, he sent it from Chibuk-Sari to me. Well, there were still packages possible. The war was not on. So he sent me that core because no one is allowed to punch the live cedar.
01:13:17
Teddy
I wouldn't do it. But he did it once upon a time to just measure how old is the the cedar. And he sent me that because we could compare the rings. That tree, the last and the next year, i went there and I cut it. The the fallen the fallen cedar tree. I cut a whole piece of it. and i took it back and there was a bark and he compared it and the last rink is 58 and on the photos because it's right next to the bodies that tree is covered with snow so i could prove that this tree fell january 59 which is absurd if you think about it's like i'm in the twilight zone here and all of nobody can
01:14:04
Teddy
Argue with that. it's a It's a fact that that tree fell, but doesn't prove it fell on top of the Dyatlov group. But that same year, there was another guy that was going with a metal detector. There are actually two many two guys. the Leymar's metal detector didn't ring, but the professional metal detector rang, and I found the tin can. And that tin can, I took it to the National Museum, they cleaned it, and there was a stamp there. And then I learned the old the standards in Russia about the tin cans. And I proved that it was manufactured in 58, and it contained something that only the group, not the researchers, could bring to the pass. So I found one tin and one tree that was right there.
01:14:48
Teddy
And so to for a tree to fall on top of the tent that is supposed to be there to start with, according to their plan, if they want to rest before they ascend to a torten and make a camp and just have a restful, joyful day as the last document that is signed February 1st, I mean, it's telling us about that would be a place that they would pitch a tent. That's another, that's a speculation. But if a tree fell on top of the tent, they would have to and just injure these three people that we know with these little injuries that they have. They would have to cut the tent to get out of it.
01:15:37
Teddy
And then they would, the thing is that if they were cold, blooded and rational and under control and it's like, okay, so we're in this situation now. One should keep pause here in case someone survives and the other should go up for help and you go for water and you keep the fire running. But that's not how one behaves when a a tree falls on top of... Ask anyone that has been through this incident because I did. I went to the morgue, I looked at the body of a of a woman that was killed by a tree, and then I talked to her husband who survived and who was out of his mind.
01:16:27
Teddy
I mean, you can't help them. She died because she was so suffocated by the by the tree and she couldn't breathe. So there was a foam coming out. She was just...
01:16:38
Teddy
the the the wind was escaping from her and she couldn't breathe and she died she was suffocated although only her leg was just completely stripped because her leg was folded uh on top of her rib cage so she could she didn't have any broken bones just the flesh was stripped from her leg so the wound the injuries were completely different but she died from that so i was thinking Okay, they were trying to help the injured for hours, like, because you don't know what to do. You're trying to move up the trunk of a 10-meter tall cedar a tree that fell on top of them. you You're trying to help them. So, and there is no, you do that, you do this. You're not prepared for this. So if you run on adrenaline for many hours under in minus 40 degrees Celsius, and then you decide on some plan to they may have seen. I don't know what time of the day was that when they started up the slope. So explaining the injuries and why the rest didn't have any life-threatening trauma, but they still died, and in the way that they were scattered around. I mean, I only believe that in their natural poses were found
01:17:54
Teddy
in the poses that they died were the ones that were trying to get up the slope to the tent. that I don't believe that the tent was there that night. Everybody else was, the i mean, moved around.
01:18:09
Teddy
The two under the cedar tree, we know. the rest Everybody's talking how they hugged each other. No, they didn't hug each other. They were just dumped in a pile because they didn't have time to position them. And then they were dumped near, I think they just slowly were moved by the melting snow and the water because they were found 20 meters below the den where they were supposedly supposedly be dumped on top. So it doesn't make any sense. Why are they 20 meters downstream?
01:18:40
Teddy
so what no other theory can explain is uh the tree about a tree fallen on top of the tent now the interesting part is that i can actually dig in the ground and find something that can just lean towards the the idea that the dyatlov group was camping there just one thing can that it's a smaller size only in the stores, sold only in the stores. I went to the plant that manufactured this tin can. It was from cream. And all of the searchers had their cans from the military reserves, which were different size, different expression. day And they had condensed milk. They didn't have cream.
01:19:26
Teddy
Still, this is a true information, but it doesn't amount to the to the to the fact that Yatlov group were camping in the forest and not where the tent was found.
01:19:39
Teddy
But the the amazing fact is that without me knowing and starting all this investigation, I didn't know that the trees were preserved so I can prove what... and that even Because you you have heard about telling the age of a tree, because how many rings, but you say this tree is 100 years old.
01:19:55
Lee Hatfield
right.
01:19:57
Teddy
But the fact that I can tell what year it died, I didn't know that I can do that. It's just by comparing the rings from different trees in the area of the same type, you can tell that this is that year, that year, because they're still alive.
01:20:14
Teddy
So you can tell which year are the rings from the dead tree. But this is a big but, because in my theory, okay, the the tree fell down, killed the tree, the rest died from exhaustion, depression, hypothermia, they they they just...
01:20:32
Teddy
a when the adrenaline left their bodies they didn't have any desire to fight the cold and everything because
01:20:42
Teddy
one of the girls died one of the well the strongest ones all three of with the most experience the stranger that joined the group and then was table I mean they were all popular and beautiful, intelligent and strong, but very important the members of their group died and they couldn't help them. And they were running on really on adrenaline. And even the fact that the ones that started going up the slope were with most clothes on them.
01:21:19
Teddy
i believe that they put as many clothes as they could have on them, they thought that that's going to be enough. And maybe they saw a plane, maybe they think that they're going to be there if one goes flies over over them.
01:21:38
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
01:21:38
Teddy
But this is my explanation of why they were crushed like that. What could cause these injuries? Then why the rest were running until they just were so exhausted, they couldn't run and fight anymore.
01:21:54
Teddy
And why was the tent cut from the inside? And I don't believe they died in these positions, but that's obvious to everybody. And then we come with everybody else cannot explain what happened after the avalanche or the UFO, the infrasound happened at the tent and they went down, right? They cannot explain what happened after that.
01:22:23
Teddy
I now have to explain how the tent moved from the- who would move the tent if that was so unnatural of an accident and no one was guilty intentionally, nothing. like we don't i don't see I don't blame anybody for this because it's not that they cross any territory, even the religious Mount Sea didn't have any oracles there or praying rocks or anything like that. There were other hikers in the in the surrounding regions, mountains, whatever.
01:23:05
Teddy
Something like that had never happened. On the contrary, Mounsi were trying to help them and to get something paid or alcohol or something in exchange. They were trying to comply and be good with the with the regime because the regime was not touching them. They were the only people that could survive the harsh region. So they were in peace. they were in Of course, they're bad people. And there were accidents too. Even to the shaman, his son got drunk. They all liked to drink. So he shot so somebody and his father just took him to the police and he went to prison for that. It was involuntary manslaughter, whatever. so And they all had hunting rifles. So things can happen.
01:23:53
Teddy
But to go to the extent for a religious killing, the bodies would have never been found. I mean, come on, Mansi can hide the bodies the way you want to find them.
01:24:04
Teddy
And then these left alcohol, money, cameras, shoes, everything. i mean, if there was the Mansi and there was a fallen tree, come on, you take everything, leave them or move.
01:24:17
Teddy
and I don't know, but it wasn't something that the way Mansi would do it.
01:24:19
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
01:24:22
Teddy
Anyway, so my My theory has to, if I'm going to ask for other theories to end up with how they died, I have to move the tent on the slope.
01:24:36
Teddy
So the fact that the bodies were brought to the morgue beginning of January, I think that they were found, that actually the bo the the bodies of the three hikers that start crawling up, they were visible from the air. I think they were spotted.
01:24:52
Teddy
And the ground group was sent to the location and they actually found the tent and they proceeded exactly as they should have.
01:25:04
Teddy
They took the bodies that they are found, they brought them on a helicopter to the morgue, they folded the tent. And this is exactly where they found them with the sensational rescue operation that was coming from Moscow and Sverdlovsk.
01:25:26
Teddy
There's so many things that don't make sense. One of them is the date on the cover of the case file, which is 6th of February, when they were not considered missing until the 20th of February. Why would anyone start asking questions from the 6th of February? They were dead, but only for a week, and no one was expecting them before the 20th.
01:25:46
Teddy
So why would anyone start asking questions? because they were found, but they didn't know who they were. And they were another there was another group that was starting from Burmantovu, and they were local. I mean, one of the students, had he was from Burmantovu, his parents, Pulunocne.
01:26:06
Teddy
i I confused the... They were going through Bormantovu, but they started from Polonocne. And this document of questioning someone was from Polonocne, the head of the military... Not military, but the police, the militia.
01:26:24
Teddy
He was questioned... No, he questioned Popov about the weather, about if they have seen someone at the beginning of February. and But in Polonocne,
01:26:37
Teddy
Dyatlov group were never in Polonocne, it was not on their plan, it was not on their route, there was nothing to connect Dyatlov group with Polonocne. Why did this document was transferred into their folder? Because I believe the bodies were found before the official discovery and they were thinking that this is the Shumkovs group.
01:27:00
Teddy
After the 6th, Shumkov came back They were all alive and they realized that this is not their group. And then they realized that there are more people. There is not just the six bodies and the rest of the bodies, they might have been found. They might not have been transported to the to the morgue yet. And my my scenario is that the fear that someone had to be culpable for this incident where the kids of the peoples die and everybody's looking for someone to blame for actually to blame it on something. It can be the nature itself. That means that they don't know how to organize tracks and they haven't foreseen something that might kill the hackers. Well, someone has this is in
01:27:54
Teddy
We found a lot of examples of incidents, not just hiking in the mountains, where if someone dies because they were unloading supplies from a helicopter and it the fell something fell on top of someone, the head of the this unit was fired, demoted, sent to the Gulag, and that solves the problem. This is how in the Soviet Union at the time,
01:28:19
Teddy
things were solved, there was no more resources of or time to do anything else because they cannot change the
Government Response and Cover-Up Theories
01:28:26
Teddy
system. So they have to say that person didn't do their job, they so they go to prison and everybody is happy. This is how they solve the problems. So in this case, there go get the expedition, they explore they explore for minerals or uranium, whatever. i mean, Ural is the area where there are a lot of geology, surveyors, whatever things going on. And a lot of population forms, a whole villages there, and they work exactly there. on the i mean, the geologists work somewhere in the area. We also have a lot of testimonies of explosives being heard. Even there there is a radiogram
01:29:14
Teddy
to Moscow if they're doing some testings behind the ridge to stop them because they're looking for bodies and they're afraid. so just So there were explosions and this is exactly how they were looking at the time for minerals, so uranium and anything else. they were putting dynamite into trunks or just dropping them from the sky. So there is a crater that's forming. And then they send a ground group, which is taking samples from the ground, sending them to the lab and just testing them. This area was never marked
01:29:53
Teddy
not to go there because they're doing work, geology work, there are going to be explosions, but they were hurt.
01:29:59
Lee Hatfield
Bye.
01:30:01
Teddy
But they everybody's connecting these explosives with testings of weapons, not with geologists. But the geologists were there. This is why they were taking care of the communication, the they sent the radio operator, all their
01:30:18
Teddy
No, the helicopters, I don't believe, were from the geologists, but they were there throughout the whole investigation. They didn't have to, but they're on location. That's all only normal, so no no one was questioning that. But there were strange telegrams, radiograms. Like, for example, Potizhenko didn't allow the...
01:30:40
Teddy
I think I started telling that example, but didn't finish it. They didn't want to take the the bodies of the last four into the helicopter if they're not in special boxes. And the radiogram was sent to Moscow to some, no, actually to the geologistologist head of the geologist. And the person in charge was complaining, this is outrageous.
01:31:07
Teddy
because the bodies are exactly are frozen exactly as you saw them.
01:31:14
Teddy
The person that this radiogram was sent to was never on the pass. He was never on location, but it's right there in the case files. The bodies are frozen exactly as you saw them.
01:31:29
Teddy
I mean, when when did he see them, the bodies?
01:31:33
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, good point.
01:31:34
Teddy
And things like that, you can see traces of somebody knowing something throughout everything. And the fact that it wasn't censored to me means that upper levels, did they they were not in the known. They didn't know about this. It's a cover up that's on the e level. So what they did is okay,
01:31:58
Teddy
We want them to find the hikers dead, but we don't want the tent to be under a tree because the explosives can actually tip over the tree. Even if the it wasn't caused by explosion, someone had to be found guilty, and this is where they work.
01:32:19
Teddy
In their campsites that we have found, geology campsites. I haven't really investigated what year they were left, but obviously in the maps that we publish into the book, they show that this area is of interest and they were exploring it.
01:32:38
Teddy
So there was work there. And because they didn't find anybody to link to the demise of the group, three people from the sports club in Ekaterinburg, then Sverdlovsk,
01:32:52
Teddy
were fired, demoted or whatever. So this is exactly what they did, even with the overwhelming force that doesn't link anybody as a culpable for the what happened. Still, the party just fired three people and was done with it. And they closed the case and was never reopened.
01:33:15
Teddy
So these people on the EFDO level, they have families, they have kids, theyre i mean they have their their life. And then they learned that on the top of the 21st Congress of the party where Khrushchev was actually tightening his power and he needed all of the good publicity and PR he could find, they learned that everybody's coming to look for the bodies. Of course, who is there to blame for the incident, especially if it's found
01:33:49
Teddy
under a tree because they should have marked this out of not to be accessible. I mean, just to cut it off. But that wasn't the practice. No one was doing that. Even they were we found testimonies by people that were going to see their friends that were looking that were working with the in the geology camp and suddenly everything started flowing in the in the air, i mean, the explosives, the the trees started exploding around them and there they throw themselves on the ground and hoping to survive.
01:34:26
Teddy
So I believe that they just put the tent on top.
01:34:27
Lee Hatfield
Yep.
01:34:31
Teddy
How come that tent be exactly on the line where the bodies were? It's where you start to go down. That's the place where you start to go down.
01:34:43
Teddy
And I believe that all the signs show that it was put not more than two or three days before it was found and that these footprints that we see and we believe are left from the hikers after they could open their tent and they went down in the ravine, I think those are from the people that put the tent there. And those are not the workers because they don't have the brains or the motivation or the means because the bodies had to be transported back to the past. and They found the tent 400 meters from the landing site on the even terrain.
01:35:21
Teddy
I believe that the and the pilots were always transporting big boxes with equipment, cords and everything. they They might not know what's in the boxes. They just dump the boxes. They don't know what's in the boxes. And I don't believe there are more than four people that knew what's in the boxes and all the old staging is done according to the traditional way of mountaineering in the in the winter. in the And they knew about this because they were local.
01:35:49
Teddy
It's hard to swallow.
01:35:51
Teddy
But then how is the Yeti infrasound and the rest of the the things?
01:35:51
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
01:35:52
Lee Hatfield
if
01:35:56
Teddy
I mean, it's possible. Is it probable? There are crazier things I have heard about, about people trying not to go into the Gulag. And because it's so absurd to move bodies if you are not...
01:36:12
Teddy
you haven't killed them, that's why it's so hard. Everybody that believes that someone knew or helped them die or did something to them is going through these extraordinary loops to link them into some conspiracy that they were intentionally killed.
01:36:34
Teddy
While if it happened, And there's so many times when something happens, you run over a body, the body is already dead, but you run over the body.
01:36:45
Teddy
Sometimes you feel like getting it out of your driveway, not because you just you're trying not to be linked to this and you cannot rationalize with the regime of the time.
01:36:58
Teddy
They're not. But it's no, no, buts, no, it's you go to the GULAG, you go just you're you're the head of the you're right now the boss of the guard of the GULAG and you're just going to move on the other side of the fence.
01:37:14
Lee Hatfield
Okay, so if, and it's a big if, there is a cover-up of any description, do you think there is still information out there to be found?
01:37:29
Lee Hatfield
As in there is records that are hidden away that one day may be found and will blow this wide open?
01:37:40
Teddy
I strongly believe that there are three revenues that new information may serve as surface. One is the archives, and there are people that are digging in the archives where they might not be directly linked to, okay, this is what happened, but something that we, I mean, the journalists or the whoever has access may dig up that it's so weird that it's going to turn its this case on its head could be in the archives. There are a lot of places in the archives that it hasn't been looked yet. And my hope is that because it's not covered up, but it was just intentionally left
01:38:28
Teddy
Ramirez- Out because it doesn't make sense or it just speaks of a direction they don't want to investigate and further that it still may exist is still may exist second revenue is that bet. Mariana Ramirez- confessions, I mean people are still with their minds, I would even if you're i mean I know that if you have kids and family they're going to be really.
01:38:58
Teddy
consequences if you say something like that, but still someone may want to get it off his chest before they die. And the third revenue is something I may go after. i mean, I'm doing it.
01:39:12
Teddy
The ground. There's still things in the ground.
The Uncertainty of Closure
01:39:16
Teddy
I know that no matter what I find, by the way, oh everybody agrees with the tree and I gave them now their ending of Everybody's theory, like they went down and the tree fell on top of them. That's it. I mean, the tree is now killing them down in the ravine. So i so no no one is arguing with could a tree be the cause to kill them because explains the trauma. But I i think that with the very proper metal detectors is really hard. the It's very grown, overgrown the whole territory there. i mean, the the theyre
01:40:02
Teddy
what do you call them? Oh my God, I forgot the name of the the grass that is growing there. It's tall. go very tall. So you have to actually trample everything before you can go with any metal detector. And it's a vast territory, even for to trying to find where a tent might have been pitched hung because their tent is not standalone. It has to be tied to two trees.
01:40:33
Teddy
So this is what I'm going after what's in the ground. And many others do, and the fact that they haven't found anything. i mean, they they find a lot of things left by the rescuers, things in the river, the the knives that might be from 59. They find a lot of things, but oh garbage left from a campsite, that would be really sensational.
01:41:04
Teddy
And I believe that the things that they were using back then, they still could be found. And I so i found one. It was 30 centimeters in the ground. And if we find something that cannot be argued that they wouldn't take with them. It wasn't on the bodies. I mean, it you yeah yeah something related exactly to a camping. That would be a good start to actually even not proving, but trying to see the case from another chronological standpoint.
01:41:40
Teddy
That it actually started from the ravine and the tent was never on the slope.
01:41:51
Teddy
If the question is could this case be solved? Never. I don't believe we're going to agree on a single version ever.
01:42:03
Teddy
Court, they can just, the evidence cannot be accepted in court. But new information, I believe your question was could they there some crucial,
01:42:18
Teddy
bits of information that there's still not of we don't know about it that could shed a completely different to break the case but in our investigative like sleuthing type of circles yes there is that's why people kept uh going we're not just digesting all the information it's good to have it in its purest shape and form like the sources the scans and everything so we're basing our Every time when someone is asking, well, what's his name, where they were found, what's the well, you can look in this source.
01:42:53
Teddy
You don't say, you don't answer on top of your head, I believe, I read, I saw, no. You always have to look into the sources because we don't live we don't need the residue of the legends.
01:43:07
Teddy
That's not needed. It's it's a lot of... cows in the fat and we have to always go to the sources because something is going to come more and we have to find that hole where that piece is going to fit.
01:43:24
Teddy
I strongly believe that there is still a chance that we're going to receive, that we're going to find this missing piece of the puzzle that's going to tie the hole.
01:43:24
Lee Hatfield
That makes sense.
01:43:35
Lee Hatfield
That would be really cool if
Personal Reflections and Transformative Impact
01:43:36
Lee Hatfield
it did. So I've got one final question for you. I know on the Expedition Unknown episode with Josh that you said that this was your first time a visiting the pass.
01:43:51
Lee Hatfield
how after what you've been you've been doing already how did that impact your life after the visit
01:43:59
Teddy
That visit was the pinnacle of my life. People, my friends said, don't say that. I mean, that's going to be one pathetic, miserable life. if That's the pinnacle, but it is. I mean, it's very personal.
01:44:10
Teddy
It's not the fact that it's, it's very personal experience because everybody has like for the travelers, you have to go to India.
01:44:10
Lee Hatfield
yeah
01:44:17
Teddy
You have to go to, and for the mountaineers, you have to go to Everest. Well, for my type of, I don't know, creatures and species, everybody feels different on the yard with us and I had my personal experience and my life after that was completely transformed is I can talk a lot about that but it was a turning point I don't believe Josh Gates knows the full extent of he changed my life
01:44:29
Lee Hatfield
you
01:44:48
Teddy
I mean, he knows that I was very happy. He knows that I was very sad when we parted. By the way, my mom died while I was there, which I didn't know.
01:44:58
Lee Hatfield
Oh, sorry.
01:44:59
Teddy
I didn't know. but But strange things happen every time I go there, which are very personal.
01:45:00
Lee Hatfield
Sorry to hit.
01:45:06
Teddy
like i Every time I get lost, first of all. The first time I met with a bear, I survived. The second time, i and every time i go I have to go on top of the dead mountain to find my way back to the camp.
01:45:20
Teddy
Everything keeps turning, so I i get lost. And I'm left on my devices, on my... I'm left alone and I have a relationship with this mountain that's outside the expedition. that's outside of the context of the Diablo past. I forget about the Diablo group when I'm lost because it's not even kicking the survival mode, but it's very strange why I'm lost. And then I find things that are directly linked to my personal life back then, back in the civilization, back in Europe. And then the whole time i i find my closest friends. I learn things about myself there. And it's so not that I cannot live without going on expedition. I'm not saying I have to go there to feel whole, although I have said that it just, it changed me.
01:46:11
Teddy
It's, I have never felt like part of something big. And that's not the Diadluv Pass, but the universe. It's like, this is how I feel since I go there. And the more I go,
01:46:25
Teddy
the bigger the universe gets and the the more integrated I am. Like my personal pains and ambitions and ego and everything are really not important. In the beginning, of our job of pass I'm going, I'm the one. No, it doesn't matter because what we do is so small part of a big, some mystery, it may get resolved or not, but I'm learning,
01:46:54
Teddy
the language, history, biology, dendrology, metal detector. I'm keeping in shape. I'm discussed and'm i'm talking to people like you. It just keeps me in a completely different infrastructure than if I didn't have the Adlufas. Of course, I would have something else otherwise. But this, somehow, I feel is getting the best of me.
01:47:20
Teddy
that's I'm learning a lot. So it was crucial to Josh Gates. He put me on the map, literally. And yeah, it was very, and I don't believe that it was a chance because i i know that he could have anybody he wanted, but
01:47:31
Lee Hatfield
So so
01:47:42
Teddy
You know, good things, the important things, the things that are coming from above, whatever you call it, that above, they come without any effort. Someone does something to you without even knowing it. That's so important to you. And then you do something, say something, or you're exactly at the right time or the right place for somebody else. So to me, the
Future Expeditions and Personal Life Balance
01:48:07
Teddy
very big things happen with effortless. And that's why I believe I'm on the right spot because finding the tree, the thing can, and going on expedition, everything is effortless. When I was thinking, how can I go to in winter?
01:48:20
Teddy
How can I get to the Yadavu Pass? I don't have the equipment. I don't know anybody there, logistics. haven't been to Russia. What do I do? And then ring the team of Discovery Channel. They want to go to the pass as an expert.
01:48:33
Teddy
Oh my goodness. I mean, you tell me How is that not important or a miracle?
01:48:40
Lee Hatfield
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
01:48:42
Teddy
So I'm so grateful.
01:48:42
Lee Hatfield
And you never get. Yeah. And you're not going to say no to to that kind of invite, are you?
01:48:50
Teddy
What do you think?
01:48:50
Lee Hatfield
Never. Yeah. So are you planning to go back anytime soon?
01:48:56
Teddy
It's already done. I mean, we have set the dates and everything. We're talking equipment now. I couldn't go for the anniversary because I'm not a skier and my support team, because I have friends, I'm going with people.
01:49:09
Teddy
i don't go all taken care with the snowmobile and everything i tried that but i'm not doing it again well i'm not going to say no to forever but i'm not going during the winter because i'm not a skier i don't ski so i won't be able to carry my backpack and if i can ski but i go since josh gates i go every summer and i'm already i mean I know the people that I am going with and actually they put me as a talisman.
01:49:17
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
01:49:38
Teddy
I'm the leader of that expedition. So it's not that I'm joining some expedition. It's my expedition, on my forum. I already know who is going. It's everything. We're organized.
01:49:49
Teddy
Well, actually, at the end of the previous expedition, we make plans for the next year. And the year goes like that. Phew! It's Diatlov Pass again.
01:49:59
Lee Hatfield
we like so would you like to mu Would you like someone to come and help you carry your bags?
01:50:01
Teddy
July, I'm going July.
01:50:04
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
01:50:05
Teddy
Oh, please.
01:50:07
Lee Hatfield
Okay.
01:50:08
Teddy
I may take you up. Seriously, just get wedding boots.
01:50:12
Lee Hatfield
yeah okay
01:50:16
Teddy
and No, on seriously, it's such... I am i'm not saying it's fun. It's extraordinary. I don't know if it's for everybody though. I cannot promise. I can't be the one taking care of people for their expectations.
01:50:30
Teddy
I'm not a guide. I'm not a recruiter. I'm i'm going there to see oh what's going to be this year that I'm going to find there, what's going to find me and how life, but it's for the better.
01:50:43
Teddy
Every year it's for the better, but that doesn't mean it's for the stereotype better. You know, it's not like a money career or something else.
01:50:51
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. Yeah.
01:50:55
Teddy
It's, it's, uh, something I'm leaving the extra luggage that it's not mine. Literally, because I went there, I couldn't move. I couldn't continue with my backpack. And actually hang the supplies and left the note, please eat me. And that's figuratively too. I'm leaving everything that I cannot carry with me and it's not good for me.
01:51:23
Lee Hatfield
sure that makes sense so apart from going back next july and apart from the anniversary in february what's next on your agenda
01:51:35
Teddy
in one call In what context?
01:51:38
Lee Hatfield
so what
01:51:38
Teddy
i'm i'm I'm living in the Alps with my husband and we're going hiking the whole time. He's not into the Diaklopas. He's absolutely not interested in that, which is good.
01:51:52
Teddy
Otherwise, have you had this experience? If i come across someone who is exactly like me, I mean, I don't mean gender wise and the looks, but if I'm paired with somebody like me, like on an abandoned island, I will kill them.
01:52:13
Teddy
I would not stand them. I mean, you cannot be with someone that's exactly like you. If people tell me, oh, we're so alike.
01:52:20
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
01:52:22
Teddy
No, you have to be different to complete each other. He has to be different.
01:52:26
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
01:52:27
Teddy
So he's actually keeping me sane because otherwise I'll be, I'll be like translating documents and doing everything behind the computer. He's the one that when he, I see him with the backpack, okay, I'm off to the mountain.
01:52:41
Teddy
I'm like, Oh no, oh you're not going without me. you're not And also I never learned to tell the the directions of the, of I'm the the sad girl that looks like like when the birds fly away to the left, because can't say which is south or north.
01:52:45
Lee Hatfield
Cool.
01:52:59
Teddy
I can't go by myself. I need someone, a support, and I need someone to go with, but I don't, in general, I don't like people.
01:53:11
Teddy
So it's very hard to find, to have it all.
01:53:13
Lee Hatfield
Okay.
01:53:17
Teddy
to be left alone when you need it and to have to to go with someone when you need it. I'm going every year to the States because I used to live there and I still have my friends, my place, my business. So I'm usually going dividing my time to Bulgaria, Austria and Las Vegas so I don't pay taxes anywhere. And im I'm kidding. But something like that. So no one knows where I am, but I go to places where I have people that I want to be with. Adventures, very, very important. So after the anniversary, I'm going to basically, you know, when God loves when you make plans, I never do that because I'm left disappointed.
01:54:08
Teddy
i I just have to show up in my life. I just have to be there. Adventure finds me. Every time a lot of good things, I meet people, think like someone wants to do something, to get somewhere.
01:54:23
Teddy
I am trying to keep my time. open so I can do all the things that are coming towards me. Otherwise, if you have plans, you lie locked and someone tells, oh, I'm going that time to do this and that.
01:54:37
Teddy
then I have plans for something else. So why do the plans if a lot of things happen that you want to be part of? So that's how I am living.
01:54:44
Lee Hatfield
That makes sense.
01:54:46
Teddy
I'm the happiest when
Conclusion and Gratitude
01:54:47
Teddy
I don't have any plans for anything. One expedition per year is enough for me.
01:54:49
Lee Hatfield
That makes perfect sense. That makes perfect sense. Teddy, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. These multiple hours, let's just say that, I've flown by.
01:55:03
Lee Hatfield
And I've loved hearing all your theories and all your stories. Like say, thank you very much for spending some time with me this afternoon on your evening now.
01:55:14
Lee Hatfield
And I thank you very much. And I will definitely let you know when this is being released so you can you can share it. But I say it's been an absolute pleasure and I can't thank you enough.
01:55:25
Teddy
Pleasure you all around and thank you again and happy holidays to everybody.
01:55:31
Lee Hatfield
Happy holidays to you too. Take care. Bye-bye.
01:55:34
Teddy
Bye.