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Cherrill Rae Yates, singer, recording artist and half of the singing duo The Raes
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Cherrill Rae Yates is a singer and recording artist best known as one half of The Raes singing duo which also featured her then husband, the late Robbie Rae. In this very raw and honest chat with host Dan Hare Cherrill reveals: her complicated personal and professional relationship with the narcissistic Robbie; details of the couples wildly successful TV show ‘The Raes’ and why it ended after 2 seasons; the challenges of touring; why her and Robbie split up; her upcoming movie debut and much, much more. Check out Cherrill’s YouTube channe @CMCYATES
Transcript
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, it's Dan here for Dusty List Radio, and this is the podcast, Liner Notes, revealing chats with Canada's retro music makers. Today, I'm very honored to have as my special guest, accomplished singer and recording artist, Cheryl Rae Yates, perhaps best known as one half of the Rays with her then husband, Robbie. We'll be talking about travels and the business of music, the life of her career entertainer, and we'll get some other insights as well about the Canadian music scene from someone who's been part of it for many decades. So thank you so much for joining me today, Cheryl. How are you?
00:00:30
Speaker
I'm fine. Thank you. Many, many decades. Well, time goes on. It's one way linear, right? That's right. In like in London, Ontario, um they that's my hometown, basically, where I got my start. My hometown is actually St. Thomas, Ontario, but London is the next biggest town. And um a couple of years ago, I was inducted into the Hall of Fame there and they just put something in a museum.
00:00:54
Speaker
They needed some paraphernalia from me. And I thought, OK, well, if you live long enough, you know, you'll get into a museum somewhere. That's funny. Well, that's so great. I actually lived in London in 1969, 68 to 69, I think. Wow, thriving music city.
00:01:13
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah. lots Lots of stuff going on there. Yeah, it was cool very cool. So the the interesting thing about you, i I read your course, I read a bunch of information on you and and you were a child of the 60s. You were born in the UK and then came to Canada and then went back to the UK. So that sounds interesting. You were immersed in that whole music scene and grew up in in the the British invasion and all the great music that was happening at the time. Right. So tell me a little bit about that. You know, I always wanted to sing ever since I was little.
00:01:43
Speaker
And um my my parents emigrated from England when I was um you know only about three years old. And um I started singing really early and I couldn't sing in bars because um I was too young. And a I did anyway, and my parents were there with me, but I i got kicked out a couple of times and that was it. I was disgusted and decided to,
00:02:12
Speaker
to, you know, I had had lots of family in England and there was no drinking age. There there is a drinking age, but it's not as strict and everybody goes in the clubs and pubs and stuff there. So that's the reason why I went back to England. I also went to school there to the Cardiff College of Music and Drama for about one year until I got that Italian disease called Mafunzolo.
00:02:33
Speaker
My funds are low. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Started singing. What was your main musical influence? I mean, you had a full dose of the British music, but also you would have had Celtic country, Canadiana, rock folk. I mean, there was a lot of stuff going on. all that was your what I guess you you could say I was really influenced by R and&B. I mean, we lived very close to Detroit and the whole Motown music scene was really something I was into.
00:03:00
Speaker
um You know, I mean, who wasn't, but but living that close to Detroit, I think probably, you know, heavy influence. Yeah. And then the interesting thing that I often ask my guests is, you know, what made you decide to pursue a career? I mean, lots of people sing. I mean, playing instruments, saying enjoy music, but then there's that sort of defining moment or that time where you go, well you know, I might be able to make something of this. Did you have that moment? You know, no, I never had that moment. I just always wanted it.
00:03:29
Speaker
I feel like I was tortured sometimes. I had such a passion and such drive. Really, there's nothing else that I could have, I would have or could have done. It was just that. And I was you know driven. That's all. Yeah. Fair enough. yeah Yeah. And some people, I mean, that's the case. You don't really overthink it. You think this is what I do. This is what I am. And I'm just going to go ahead and do it and see, we'll see what happens.
00:03:52
Speaker
That's right. So in fun times, obviously. And then and then so you went back to England and met Robbie. I just had to ask you, where did the name the Rays come from? Because his last name was Bevan. Right. Right. Miss Yates. Yes. Well, he had a brother. He's his brother. I just saw him about a week ago. I was in England. I was in Wales, actually. And they were called Robbie and Ray and his brothers, also an amazing singer.
00:04:20
Speaker
and um And they were called Robbie and Ray and they had these pictures taken and then his brother became very religious, quit the business and actually is now a pastor singing all over the world in churches and um oh nice spiritual reviews. And he they didn't he couldn't afford to get new pictures taken. So they kind of, but you know, scratched out Ray's photo and put robby and instead of Robbie and Ray, he became Robbie Ray.
00:04:48
Speaker
well there you go So then when I married him, everybody just thought my name was Cheryl Ray. And also when his brother came to Canada to visit us, they thought his name was Ray Ray. Oh, OK. That's funny. Yeah. So so you met him in England, I guess, in and he was already immersed in the music business there. And I thought there'd be lots of opportunities there for music, especially as established as he was. And then you decided to come to Canada back to Canada. And he was from there. I missed home. I missed home and I missed my family. And that's why we came back to Canada. there But there was a lot. I mean, in those days you could work in the early 70s.
00:05:28
Speaker
You could work within a radius of about 100 miles every night for 10 years and never do the same club twice. yeah So there was a lot of work and the money was good too. ah But I just miss my family. And after I got married to Robbie, I realized, oh my God, I might be stuck here. I never and never went there with the intention of staying forever.
00:05:48
Speaker
So okay, but then so I guess the disconnect for me was that he was established there and he had a TV show and and was doing very well, right? so no one ah You know, that's a that's a popular misconception I see that ah in a lot of ah a lot of interviews around but he didn't have a TV show. No I don't know how that ever came about. I guess some story got missed. I did read that. And then tonight my question and my question was, what did he give up to move to Canada? Was it an opportunity or was he leaving a lot behind? No, we were both singing in different places every night. We wanted to be together, but we had both of us had established single careers.
00:06:29
Speaker
and yeah We decided I wanted to come home. And so, you know, we just gave a shot. We didn't know if we'd stay. We didn't know what would happen. You know, we were, we were young, i got we were young. We were, I was like, I was like 19. Wow. yeah as Yeah. So you moved to, so you had to come back here and get established here. Cause you really had nothing to speak of as far as a track record here. You just came back cold and just said, okay, let's see what happens. Right. Yeah. Yep. And then, but you ended up in a very short period of time.
00:07:00
Speaker
You ended up, you got a record deal. You were playing, I guess you started playing the clubs. Is that what you, you hit the club circuit right away? or Yeah. Well, we came over, we got married. Actually, if we were still married, I, I, I bought five days ago or would have been our 50th wedding anniversary. So let's say a little over 50 years ago, uh, he and I came to Canada for a ah little vacation.
00:07:25
Speaker
And we went to Toronto and we hooked up with um a management company, Dixon and Propass. And we told them what we were about. and that And he knew that in England at the time, you know, it was a lot show act, show people were a lot more showy. I mean, Canada was kind of conservative compared to what was going on in Europe. And so he took us on and and there was a band waiting for six months later, we moved here.
00:07:50
Speaker
There was a band waiting for us and we went right on the road. We were making $600 a week between the two of us. and We felt like that was really good money. I guess it was back in 1974. Yeah. Sure it was. Well, that that was what I was curious about. What was your break? Because you obviously had to have some kind of a moment where they said, okay, let's go and do this. And then I was going to ask you if you had a band or just ah hired guns or just studio cats. But it sounds like you you put a band together and just hit the road.
00:08:16
Speaker
They put us together with the band out of Windsor, Ontario called Tin Pan Alley. And they had um twin sisters up front who were kind of doing the show and they quit the band. So they needed, you know, a front act and that was me and Robbie. Oh, cool. and And what was your genre? Like do you were disco really wasn't hitting yet. So your pop sort of show band or what? Yeah, a real show band. A lot of pop, a lot of R and&B. You know, we were doing, um you know, all the the Motown stuff and you know Robbie was very funny and really a very ah a real good showman and we did a lot of comedy in the show and you know if we had we had packed houses every night just doing what we did a lot of harmonies and
00:09:03
Speaker
Oh, yeah, it was great. You had a kind of a Donnie Marie vibe or a Sunny and Cher vibe. And, you know, it worked. It works. Right. And it's very friendly, very disarming, I guess, to the audience, too. Right. Just yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah We had a chemistry that was that I didn't know it at the time that I see now when I, you know, over the years, I realized We had chemistry that was, you know, very strong. So what was your plan? So you you got a record deal. They got you a record deal with A and&M and then you, you put out an album and then the TV show came along as well. It sounds like you were doing a lot of stuff at the same time. Life must've been coming at you at a hundred miles an hour. Oh yeah, it was. I still have my diary, like ah the the, um,
00:09:48
Speaker
travel schedule from 1979 and it's just crazy when you when I look at it nice I mean we're flying across the Atlantic sometimes twice a week oh um yeah our circadian rhythms were way out of whack but to we We got here and we were on the road and our management company was pretty good. They also managed um Toronto. You remember that band? They managed Chilliwack. They had the Pope, if you remember the Pope. I can't remember who else, but they had a lot of like, um you know, high high-end acts and they were they were doing well. So um they had a
00:10:31
Speaker
a relationship with all the different record companies. And they brought um Jerry La Coursera, who was the head of A and&M Records, out to see us when we were playing in London, Ontario. We were actually at a club called the City Hall. And yeah and so he liked us and signed us to a five-year record deal.
00:10:52
Speaker
And, you know, who I mean, who who knew when I think about it now just how amazing that was to have, yeah you know, I mean, thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars all of a sudden, you know, going coming our way. And then, then after um we we put out a couple of ah singles, nothing happened. And then we hit with Quesa Rosara in 1977. And it was number one for 10 consecutive weeks.
00:11:19
Speaker
Yeah, so great. Yeah. So that got the attention of Jack McAndrew, who was the head of CBC. And he came out to see us and he said, oh, you guys, oh, we did a TV show. We did a Miss Teen Canada live out of CFTO. And um and and that's when Jack McAndrew saw us. And then he came up to see our stage act. And he said, well, I'm going to give you guys a TV show. But it actually wasn't until two years later that I got the call from my manager saying, probably the most exciting moment in my life, honestly, because it's all I ever wanted was to have this TV show. And again, who knew, you know, a live audience, 40 piece orchestra, Tommy Banks, who was, you know, a monster and, um you know, ah state of the art lights and sound and costumes and dancers and you name it.
00:12:14
Speaker
Well, everybody I know watched The Rays. I mean, and we all knew that show and and and it was a popular show. and And that was I was wondering about when I was looking at the timelines. So you got it. You got a hit song. You got your touring. And then you're going to put a TV show on top of that because you were touring both before, during and after, I assume. And then, of course, recording more and stuff like nothing else slowed down. Right. Right. And and the hit the song was a big hit in Europe as well.
00:12:40
Speaker
So we were not just on this side of the pond, the other side, we were also really busy. Yeah, it was craziness. And I think that's probably what led to us breaking up eventually, because we were just under under so much stress.
00:12:53
Speaker
Well, that's the thing. I mean, they ride you like a rented mule, right, as they as the saying goes, because that's that's our boy, that's our girl up there. You get them out there and do them. But then the other thing, too, that struck me is you replaced the Tommy Hunter show. I mean, that's not for the faint of heart, too, because he was super popular. Yeah. And then so you you took that slot. Is that correct? Yeah, we did. And and um we were surprised that our ratings were through the roof. We had great ratings on that show. And that's why we got the full series, you know, because ah first The first series was a pilot series. And then, um right yeah, and we did we we tried to include Tommy Hunter's audience. We did a lot of country tunes yeah and um you know ah stuff that that that that audience would have enjoyed. We had country acts on the show. And um and then when when they loved the show, it was because of the raise and our chemistry and how we interacted with each other.
00:13:51
Speaker
So after that, we could pretty much do whatever we wanted to. Well, I kind of thought i thought that it's kind of freeing, because you were kind of like the Canadian Sonny and Cher, so to speak, right? you know Not a direct comparison. But you had fun. You goofed around. You didn't do a lot of skits, but you did funny bits, right? like there Yeah, we we had a really good time doing the show. Yeah, right? ah yeah No, we we had a it was a blast. And we loved it. But after two years, then then ah A and&M kind of Said if we didn't tour which we were trying to tour But you know doing the TV show, yeah you know We had a hit record with a little love and keeps the doctor away and it was top 40 in the US and so they wanted us to tour so we had to make it and plus they didn't like us doing the TV show because that was before MTV and all of the stuff on TV and they kind of said we want to keep an air of Mystery about you and if you guys are on the air every week, you know people won't buy your records Why should they?
00:14:50
Speaker
And so we didn't, you know, nobody knew, but it was a big mistake to walk away from the TV show, but that's what we did in the end. Okay. I was wondering about that because a couple of things about the TV show I wanted to ask you about. So you, was it filmed in Vancouver? Is that correct? Yes. you Okay. i did I did not realize that until i I looked at it and I thought, well, I better double check with you about that. And then of course, Tommy Banks. So you had a full orchestra. One of the thing about the TV show is that you had,
00:15:17
Speaker
Production and and a budget that that a lot of Canadian TV shows didn't have so for example Many of the TV shows would be lip-synced and there would be no real band or at least just a small band Like you had some production there that well I gotta tell you at the time that we did it we weren't allowed to do any we weren't allowed to lip-sync anything that the union was really strong and they said we have to have live musicians we um You know, a lot of times the acts that flew in wanted to bring their tracks because they're used to s singing their song to their tracks. And we weren't allowed to on live TV. You had to be with the with the band and Tommy Banks. all that Yeah, he had to do. um
00:16:00
Speaker
tracks. He had to do charts for every act that was on the show. I mean, I don't know how he did it back in the day because there was no Xerox machine center, or anything. He had to sit down and do those charts, 50 pieces sometimes, you know, 40 pieces ah every week, every week. Wow.
00:16:16
Speaker
Yeah, I was wondering about that because I mean some of the US shows they would force you to lip sync and the bands hated it because they wanted to play Especially on a music show. No, nobody wants to lip sync. No real musician wants to know So yeah's not the same no, it's not an and yeah, unfortunately, you know, it's not like that anymore and it's just sad cuz there was some amazing musicians out there and especially like horn players for instance, it's just hard to to get a gig these days, very far a few between, yeah especially one like that, where you just came to work every day, yeah you know, nine to five. Yeah.
00:16:54
Speaker
yeah And then you had lots of iconic Canadian bands on there. Of course, I i know many of them. You had Prism on there, which i ah ah we actually just opened for them a couple of weeks ago and over with Al Harlow is the only original member and in Prism now, but we opened for them a couple of weeks ago in Pardell Burney. And then Stonebolt, of course you had on. Yeah, they were amazing. I love Stonebolt. I love that song. um
00:17:19
Speaker
anddadadadada Tumble into the seas. What is that song? Oh my God. No matter what you do, I will still love you. yeah I will still love you. I just think that should have been a mega hit. I think that was one of the greatest songs that was written for Canadian music scene. It charted in the States. It's just that, um you know, they had the situation. And of course I've had Ray and and The band Dave Wills is a friend of mine too. I've had them both on the podcast and they, they lost their US deal. Right. That's what I was going to ask you about too. You know, you try to go make a foray into the United States and they had a US distribution deal, but they didn't have the pump and the promo that they needed. Same with Ian Thomas. That's what he told me, right? Like you got to pay a lot of money and you got to have a US deal to get there. You need really smart Canadian people working for you is what you need at that time.
00:18:09
Speaker
Um, uh, we had the same issue. I mean, they didn't believe in Canadian acts. They thought, you know, we were like, I mean, I love Dan Murray and Gordon Lightfoot, but they thought everybody was like that, you know, doing like down home country kind of stuff. You know, the the glitz and the glamor and the disco thing was, you know, not a Canadian thing. And so we had the same issue, but our record company went, when we put out little love and keeps the doctor away, they did not want to.
00:18:38
Speaker
to release it in the States. And we couldt heard right we couldn't go with any other record company because we were signed to A and&M. And even though you know they didn't want to release it, we weren't allowed to go with anybody else because A and&M was the mother company in the US. s So um they exported it or imported it or whatever it is when you send it out of the country. And within two weeks, we picked up the entire Eastern Seaboard you know ah and there was a huge disco pool thing back then you know and we we were top 40 on all the major stations so they kind of had egg on their face and they had to release it and then they released it and um they weren't
00:19:21
Speaker
They weren't real happy about having to release it. They weren't happy about it. Crazy. It's crazy how the stupid business works. Cause I would think that, you know, you might've, you must've talked about, well, there's, this is our springboard to get into the big leagues here in the United States. Like it's 10 times the population. We've got a charted song. Let's go down there and make it happen. Did you ever consider moving there or, or prepped touring there extensively? Well, Robbie and I had totally different ideas as far as, you know, I mean, I just love to sing.
00:19:52
Speaker
And honestly, being a star and, you know, being totally immersed in the business was not for me. I i didn't want to be on the road. I hated, you know, ah life on the road and he loved it. He absolutely loved it.
00:20:08
Speaker
And he wanted you know he really wanted to be the big star. And um you know i we fought we didn't fight about it, but there was a struggle between us. Whenever you know we had to go again on tour or whatever, I'd be like, oh, God, not again. And he'd be like just raring to go. you know And any excuse to cancel a date for me was like, I mean, crazy, right? But um i I could see what was going on. I mean, the band was taking uppers to stay up and downers to stay down. and You know, we were in a different city every day and eating in restaurants all the time. And it it it it was really hard on me. I just didn't like it. It wasn't for me. I wanted to sing. I wanted to sing. And that's why I love the TV show. You know, we had an apartment in Vancouver and we went to work every day. And it was amazing because we got to do what we loved and it was truly creative. But, you know, the whole role thing for me was not
00:21:01
Speaker
not fun. And then the other the other part of that is we never really got the full um support of A and&M, U.S. They ah kept, and okay, so what happened with little loving was, ah ah you probably saw the story. I mean, it was like something like 23 with a bullet. And, um and they you know, in those days, there was no computers and no cell phones and stuff and they had a system where in every city they had field guys working for A and&M and if a song was really strong they would tell them okay in all of these cities that moved up five places or whatever so go ahead and keep it on playlist push it well what happened was that the person who took the information from all of those cities made a mistake instead of twenty
00:21:52
Speaker
four with the bullet, I think she put it at 42. She mixed it up oh backwards. okay So it looked like the record had and fallen off. And it was like crazy because it had a bullet, you know which didn't make any sense at all. And we actually flew out to Los Angeles that weekend. We went to A&M lot in La Cienega and California. and ah They said, no, that's that's what happened and I'm sorry, but we never really believed this was a record. It was kind of too poppy and too disco and all this stuff. and
00:22:27
Speaker
you know we think you guys are great but you know we're and then they realize they made a mistake and we got an apology letter but that wasn't exactly what we were looking for and you know I wasn't as traumatized over that as Robbie and my management company I just remember saying hey you know it had its run it was nice we enjoyed it you know that was good but um You know, in retrospect now, I guess it didn't realize the impact of what really had happened with that record because... Well, I guess, yeah, a couple of things. I know Ian Thomas said that you got to have a US record deal and they got to pay a lot of money to the independent record promoters to get those songs. Well, we were lucky because we didn't. And I don't know what A&M put out.
00:23:10
Speaker
but um I'm sure they had to pay for that stuff, but we were really lucky because Ann M. Canada really took us under their wing. Jerry La Coursera made us his baby, you know, and um and I mean, they sent me shopping with a American Express and a chauffeur driven limousine on Rodeo Drive to buy clothes for for the TV show and for photo shoots and you know yeah I never had to put out I mean Robbie was happy because Robbie was kind of cheap to put it real one and he was happy that he didn't have to pay for any of my stage clothes or there you go stuff I needed yeah
00:23:47
Speaker
So ah so then a couple of things. One is um if if that had a worked out, you would have been, again, traveling on the road is like an alternate reality. I've done it myself and you would have had to live that alternate reality for the foreseeable future. Right. Yeah. And and, um you know, right at the when we did ah um Dancing Up a Storm, that album that Little Lovin is on, ah we were in the studio. It's called Moms and Pops Studio. And it was a guy who wrote A Little Lovin, Freddie Perrin.
00:24:17
Speaker
He had a studio in Los Angeles and a guy came in there named Richard Kerr and he said, dumb you know I love your voice, Cheryl, and I have a song that I think you could sing. and He played the song for me on his guitar and it was sounded like a little folk song. and I said, you know I really hear that as a power ballad. and So while we were recording that album, our producer, Harry Heinz said, let's go ahead and add this to the thing, but it it won't be on the album. It'll come out as a single just under your name, Cheryl Ray. And that was, I know I'll never for love this way again. and um And they released it in Canada and that was picking up numbers. And we got the same ah same attitude from the US. And I remember the day we went to their office to talk about whether they were going to release this song in the US. And Barry Corkin, who was artist relations, said to us, I've
00:25:13
Speaker
played it for everybody here and they think the production is great. They think that the performance is great. Everything is good about it, but they don't think the song is hit material. They just don't think it's a hit song. And then next thing you know before.
00:25:29
Speaker
yeah it was even but like i was at number I was in the top 40 in Canada and Dionne Warwick covered it. and she Richard Kerr asked me if I would mind if he used my song to be a demo for her you know to listen to it. and so that she and she did my exact She did our exact um ah arrangement of it and had a mega-hip with it.
00:25:55
Speaker
yeah so yeah So, you know, same thing. We you know we ran up against so much um resistance from the US record company. But again again, it would have been the same the same deal. you know And I guess maybe somewhere deep in my soul, I i kind of you know, created that resistance because it wasn't something I really wanted. I mean, I really, really wanted to sing. And I remember when I was a little girl, lying relying awake at night, just thinking, how can I get this career up and running? I was so driven. But then when it happened, you know, it it wasn't it it wasn't the lifestyle I wanted. And I didn't know how we could have that lifestyle and still have that measure of success, what people call success.
00:26:42
Speaker
Yeah. Well, no, you make you make a good point because when you're when you're pursuing the record company and the touring and stuff, you're setting up a life that you don't really want to live in a sense. Right. Right. And then the TV show was nice because the people came to you, especially being in Vancouver. And then you got to I guess some of the other guests you had Doucette and Trooper and and you worked with Wolf and Jack too. Right. you You've yeah been around. you Yeah, and um Sherry Lewis was a um regular on the show. We had Maury Amsterdam, remember him, the old comedian? Of course, yeah. And we had Abba on the show and Sylvester, who was an icon at the time. Abba came to Vancouver to record the show with you guys? ah Yeah, well, we went to we went to Switzerland and did a super special with them.
00:27:33
Speaker
angel yeah Yeah, yeah, with Michael Jackson and Abba and Boney M and Kate Bush and a lot of you European acts. And then we used a part of that on the show and a part of them in Vancouver. So yeah, like it was yeah amazing. Yeah, that's great. And you had Nick Gilder. Yeah. And then I remember you had Ray Price on there as well to to sort of get the country genre as well. That was in the first, the pilot series.
00:28:01
Speaker
Okay, yeah, he was kind of a sleeper. I gotta tell you I loved him He was a great guy, but I couldn't I couldn't believe how many fans he had all he did was he was like a Perry Como, you know i like me lay dead and Put the blankets over top of me and sing this from here. I Guess they have that sort of presence and stature and they think that's enough people love yeah Yeah, he's in the country music Hall of Fame and you know, he's just he's a Nikon. Yep Yeah. And then Pat Benatar saw the the interview you did with her man. She was so young back then too, too funny. I know. Right. oh good And, and what about Patsy Galant? I mean, she was on the show a few times, Canadian act. And I loved her voice. I thought she had an amazing voice. She's another one I.
00:28:45
Speaker
I think should have really had huge success in the US. She did from New York to LA. Is that right? Yes. Yeah. That was her first hit. And then Sugar Daddy. Is she still around? Is she still with us? is she um Yeah. Yes, she is. i don't I haven't talked to her in years and years.
00:29:03
Speaker
that to she uh she i see she's still she's doing theater and stuff like that in canada she doesn't do anything in the states but the other one was fran choli do you remember her uh no okay well fran choli is uh from montreal and she had a hit with a song called come to me a disco hit in the u.s right and um She's someone you should have on your show. And I work with her often now on the big disco extravaganzas. And she's ah she's a few years younger than me. Because when she was on my show, she was about 16. She was really young. And um and she's they love her. I mean, they the audiences just love her. And she does that that' that song. Yeah, I'll look it up. I'll look it up, yeah. Yeah, Froncholi out of Montreal, I think she's from.
00:29:52
Speaker
Yeah. So let me, let me ask you to reflect a little bit. You know, when you look at the timelines and you look back, you know, especially as, as we're getting older, I'm a little bit behind you, but I'm, you know, ah but I was around in the sixties and seventies myself. And when you look back, everything was so short and happened so quickly. Like, how do you look at that now that the TV show and it's only a few years and you're thinking, gee, it's just a little slice of my life. Yeah.
00:30:17
Speaker
it you know what I'm just really, really grateful that I was able to do that and be there when that was going on, because there's just a window there was a window of opportunity in the music business that's gone now. you know yeah Fair enough. We were able to make money at it. we were able to i mean I heard somebody on a podcast recently who said, you know back in those days, all we had to do was um get our foot in the door, get our foot in the door. And he says, now it's easy, the door's open, but everybody's in the room. yeah And that's the way it is. Yeah, everybody's in the room and you don't know who's who. Back then, you know you you had to be pretty special just to get your foot in the door. And um I i
00:31:06
Speaker
I'm really grateful because now I do these shows in New York and I go and I sing a little lovin' and don't turn around and I only wanna get up and dance. People are singing the lyrics with me. that's that awesome and therere And they love it and everybody's got a story. you know They say, oh, I just listened to your song while I was washing my car on the driveway and my brother came over and we would dance and to dance. ah you know And everybody has a story that they remember. I mean, that's the power of music. It stays in your mind and it it It creates such nostalgia in people's lives. So I'm just grateful for that. you know Did you realize the impact at the time? I talked to Erica M. from Much Music and she said, you know, things were so busy, I didn't realize the impact of what we were doing until later because you're just immersed in it and you're going 100 miles an hour and doing everything you can do. Is that a similar experience to you? um Yes, absolutely. i I did not realize the impact.
00:32:02
Speaker
um When we quit the show, ah the producer was very upset with us and only like in the last year has he talked to me. He's in his nineties now and he sent he sent me a whole bunch of paraphernalia, ah you know, promo stuff that I had never seen and said in the letter, I was so angry because, you know, we had this thing going that was really successful and you guys just walked away from it. And, you know, you could have done because they offered us a five year contract and we turned it down.
00:32:34
Speaker
Um, uh, but, um, I, I, like I said, was tired and Robbie and I were not getting along and I, I just wanted it kind of, I wanted a break. I needed a break. I think if I would have just been able to take a break, but you can't, you can't just take a break and also because I don't know what it was, but I i just remember thinking.
00:32:59
Speaker
disco to me seemed to be such a flash in the pan, smoke and mirrors kind of genre of music that at the time, you know, that I felt that I was climbing a mountain that was crumbling underneath me, you know, here that here we were just climbing so hard and working so hard and, you know, where we were really going. And, you know, I had a lot of my friends were like doctors and lawyers and I felt like ridiculous, you know, I know.
00:33:28
Speaker
I know, isn't it crazy? I felt ridiculous, like ah it like was a big joke. And so, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and then obviously you mentioned about the the marriage, you and Robbie split at some point, um just with the the the rigors of all the what you were doing. And of course, being being the married entertainment couple, you're you're with each other, both at work and at home, which is is a stressor in itself. And then you guys split at some point, I assume, in the early 80s, was that?
00:33:58
Speaker
yeah um Yeah, it was the early 80s. When I think back now, I mean, not a day goes by that I don't think of Robbie. I just was at ah i was at a funeral just a couple of weeks ago in Wales. That's where I saw Robbie's brother because we have so many you know mutual family and friends.
00:34:17
Speaker
and If I had my time over, I probably wouldn't have been as hasty to leave that relationship because I, I really did love Robbie a lot. yeah And me he was my first love. I met him when I was 17. And, um, but, you know, he, he became so, he was so influenced by the business and he started to believe all the rhetoric and the hype. And he, he started doing drugs, you know, and getting into, he was also drinking a lot of alcohol and that's what killed him in the end.
00:34:48
Speaker
And um we stayed friends and it's just a bittersweet um memory that I have of him. I'm just, I'm sad that it, you know, a lot of history and we can't even discuss it. Yeah. No, I wanted to ask you about that because he passed away. I i i read here in Thailand in 2006 as a result of kidney problems and liver problems and that 52 years old. He was a mess. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry to hear that.
00:35:17
Speaker
Yeah. he I talked to, you know, it's funny because I had a big, long conversation with his brother about that because his brother was with him a couple of days before he died in Thailand. And he was he just was totally um out of it. He didn't know what was going on, complete alcoholic. It was just sad. And and his brother said to me, you know, if he would Just if you guys would have just stayed together, you know, I think, but who knows these things, you know, yeah should've would've could've. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That hurts. I couldn't, I couldn't have stayed at the time. I know I was so angry. I was so, um, tired. I was bitter. I wanted things to be different. You know, we were, we were playing, you know, places in Northern Ontario in the middle of January and out West and Alberta. It was, you know, 40 below zero.
00:36:10
Speaker
And, you know, I wanted to have a baby. I was 30 years old and we'd been married already, you know, for a number of years. And he didn't, he decided he didn't want kids. And, you know, this he wanted that lifestyle and I didn't. Yeah, fair enough. Yeah. Well, so so then what struck me, cause I was, I was talking to our keyboard player, he's from Banff and he's been playing since the late seventies. And he said that he did a show with you in Medicine Hut in the early eighties. He was in a band called Grand Union. And I think you came in over top of them.
00:36:39
Speaker
And that sounds very, very familiar. Grand Union, I, yeah. That was the neat. Yeah. So, so, but the point he was, you know, so you had the record deal, you had the TV show, but then after that you're, you're just out touring and trying to make a living again, just like everybody else. Right. Yes. Yes. And that's the part that was so hard, but what was even harder than that is that when we actually did split up, I was doing like just small bars in Toronto, you know,
00:37:07
Speaker
Cause I didn't want to travel. I didn't want to be on the road and you know, you could work every week at a different bar, but boy you know, these sleazy beer joints, you know, that was really hard. Yeah. Well, especially after having starting hit and then a a TV show that you say, I didn't know what happened with the TV show. I wasn't sure. Cause you know, TV shows come and go, right? You do a couple of seasons. They go, yeah, we're moving on. And you guys had a contract offer that you declined. I guess that's one of the things you wish you had had just accepted and taken and.
00:37:37
Speaker
Yeah, because I think honestly, Robbie and I wouldn't have broken up either because we would have been forced to be together, number one. And number two, you know, we we were lost. We all of a sudden, you know, our man Robbie was always fighting with our management company. And, you know, he was he was a very, um you know, crazy, wild, you know, hyper guy. And, um you know, so was our manager. And the two of them just were always. And so when when the TV show went away and it didn't look like we were, ah you know, getting along. You know, he just they dropped us. And so did A and&M Records. So the record went away as well, right? Yeah, they dropped us because we were splitting up. And they just didn't see any point in spending money on something that wasn't going to be going. And I don't and I don't understand why they did that, because we had a second album coming out called like it was actually a third or fourth album, but it was the second big album.
00:38:36
Speaker
with songs on there by Freddie Perron and, you know, people who, you know, had had hits before. And it was called Two Hearts. And, you know, they they had spent $250,000 back in 1979 on that album, you know, which is probably about $500,000 now. And they just dropped it. Instead of, you know, it didn't make any sense to me. I thought, well, at least, you know, push the record and we were willing to work together.
00:39:03
Speaker
You know, we were friends. We were willing to keep that umbrella of the race. I don't know how much we would have been able to do that, but... Well, good Lord, look at look at Fleetwood Mac. Right. There's two couples in the band that were split up and didn't even talk to each other on stage. Sometimes we didn't even make eye contact. we We did that for a long time after, yeah, yeah when we broke up. Yeah, he he would come on the road with with some girl, you know, and and i and I was having an affair with one of the guys in the band. ah she's yeah Yeah, it was really hard, but we did it. We worked together every night and act like we, you know, we're still crazy about each other. I mean, we kind of were. We were good friends. It was weird. It was like,
00:39:46
Speaker
the sign of the times back then. I mean, remember the Mamas and the Papas? I mean, all those bands. It was kind of like people did things like that. it would Now it's kind of like, what? You know, when you think about it, or maybe because I'm older and more mature, but at the time it didn't seem that far out and crazy, you know? Well, i black like it's like an alternate reality. So in that alternate reality, it's part of what goes on.
00:40:09
Speaker
But looking back, it's like, okay, that's a bit. but yeah Right. And sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and I just say, Oh God, forgive me for that, please. yeah Right. And Robbie, if you're anywhere where you can hear me, I'm so sorry. I did that, you know, and I did that, you know, just regrets about, about a lot of the things that happened because, you know, when we got together, we were just kids.
00:40:34
Speaker
yeah We were just kids, and we were crazy about each other. And we didn't plan on having this big career. We were going to have kids. you know We were going to start a family. And um you know we wanted to keep singing, but you know it just got away from us.
00:40:49
Speaker
yeah Yeah, that's understandable. way I appreciate you being so frank about it. I mean, that's that's the reality of of what happens. Right. And, yeah you know, ah looking back, you you think you could have made things a little bit different, but you're doing what you think you should do at the time and you have to just accept that. Right. You just go. Yeah, it was well well, I did end up marrying the guy in the band, i Nick Kukanato. We had two beautiful boys together you affected that lasted 20 years. And, yeah you know, again, it was just kind of like not easy.
00:41:18
Speaker
Cause he, both musicians. Yeah. Yeah. Life is a, it's funny because my wife and I had been married a very long time, but the one thing is I got off the road because I agree with what you said a hundred percent. I could not ever have lived that life. But the other thing is, is that my wife has absolutely nothing to do with the music business at all. She's a homebody. She just has always had our home base. Yeah, exactly. It's worked out great for us because I do my thing and I've, you know, I'm older now, but it it worked out because I had that rock, that stability.
00:41:46
Speaker
yeah Yeah. You know, so I couldn't imagine being married to somebody in the music business that's i gone every night. i am yeah yeah and gone on every night yeah ye So let me ask you about your YouTube channel. So you got this, it's excellent by the way. I watched almost all the videos because I always spend quite a bit of time before I do my my interviews. So I know halfway what I'm talking about and don't get caught with my pants down. and but tim But I do watch a lot of them and and a a couple things. One is you got tons of stuff on there. You do the commentary, which is really nice. The videos are short, so you don't have to invest an hour. yeah they're They're about 10 minutes, 5, 10, 15 minutes long. So they're short, which is nice. yeah And then but one thing that struck me is how did you get the videos? Because I i was on a TV show in 1973 and then again in 1978, I went back to get the videos and they were all erased. They didn't have them.
00:42:33
Speaker
Well, I got the, no, I got all the videos as they were. First of all, I got the three quarter inch videos from CBC back in the day. Each time the show was done. Yeah. and see done That was the other thing. Robbie never cared about any of that stuff. And I was the one who put it you know kept it all and all the promo and everything. yeah you know Back in the day, we didn't even have a camera. I remember, you know he didn't like, told you, he didn't like to spend money. And he used to give me $50 a week to live on, right? Here we are making like 20,000 a night. And I remember buying a camera with my 50 bucks and I could barely eat that week. And I have pictures now from from those days and, you know, um
00:43:14
Speaker
I was into keeping all of the stuff and so then I got all the three-quarter inch I had them put on regular VHS and then when CDs came out I had them put on to all the CDs but then in about 2005 or something I got a call from somebody at see CBC and said we're getting rid of all of these shows if you want them I'll put them all on CDs and send them to you So I said, yes, even though I had them. And they sent me the the whole all three seasons. So I thought it would be kind of cool because I have a lot, you know, I'm doing these disco shows now every once in a while in New York. And, you know, there's a still I mean, it's crazy how how big the audience is still. Yeah. And, um um you know, I thought it would be kind of cool just to put some of the big disco acts and some of the interesting things we did on that show, just excerpts.
00:44:09
Speaker
And I thought I could have a really, probably a nice long channel could go on for a couple of years if I, you know, just did an excerpt instead of doing the whole show. And then, and then um in a couple of years ago, just after COVID, I guess during COVID, I, I kind of stopped doing them. I, I went, I broke up with ah another longtime partner. This seems to be my pattern, right? 16 years with someone and um it broke up and I just, I got sidetracked with life.
00:44:39
Speaker
And I stopped doing them. But I constantly think about just, some you know, starting it up again, because there's still a lot, a lot of stuff that I didn't get to. Well, you did a very smart thing because, you know, again, even CBC, like they're not archiving these things like permanently. And I don't understand it. Yeah, it's crazy. It's Canadian history. It's part of our history that you're just growing. And it was very expensive at the time. They paid a lot of money for that stuff. And, you know, people,
00:45:08
Speaker
I mean, I didn't even think that I would get the audience I got. I mean, I was just shocked to find out how many people, I still get, I'm getting every day texts, you know, and and comments on nice YouTube every day from people who are asking me, you know, what else? What else? What, you know, and they, they asked me They tell me when, you know, when are you coming back to Canada to do shows? When and can we see you? How can we see you live? Where are you? What are you doing? yeah I mean, it's crazy. I really didn't. Like you said before, did you realize you had that kind of impact? No. I'm shocked. Yes. Well, you're up over a million views on the YouTube channel. Yeah. And I don't even have it monetized. Yeah, there you go.
00:45:56
Speaker
Well, yeah. to But no, I was really struck by the fact that you had all that footage and and you did a very smart thing unwittingly or not. You did a very smart thing to get that because there's lots of people and I've spoken to many people who were trying to find old footage and stuff and it was either filmed over. I didn't realize you could film over old film. Yeah. Yeah. and Or it was just graced. It's like, oh, I got i got a ah VHS here that is um free. It's not free, but I'll just erase this and record over it. Yeah, no, that was crazy. But tom yeah, i i I, you know, I couldn't even watch it for many, many years because we didn't have VHS players and all that stuff. You know, and I was always really anxious to look at it again. There was stuff on there that I had never seen, especially like the last few shows because, you know, we were already split up when the last few shows were on the air.
00:46:51
Speaker
And I didn't get to see them on TV. And if you didn't see them on TV, there was no place else to see them. Well, that was the other thing. Yeah. That was the other thing I was going to ask you about. Like you were on Merv Griffin and Johnny Carson down for American bands. And do you have video of all that? The only one I have is Soul Train. I didn't get any of those other ones because CBC didn't have them. You know, um I got ah I got them. I would love to see the those shows. But so are they available anywhere that you know of?
00:47:19
Speaker
I don't know. I really don't know. Because those were a big deal. I mean, the Murph Griffin show, Johnny Carson back then, Dinah Shore, huge US show. I mean, that's the long. We did them more than once. We did them a couple of times. Crazy. But again, there's no VCRs at home and you can't video it unless you get the original, like what you did with CBC. They're probably lost in the archives, but I think they should be in existence somewhere, don't you think? I would think so. I mean, I have a...
00:47:47
Speaker
I found a book chronicling all of the shows for American Bandstand and um they're numbered. And, you know, the show that we did is on there and numbered. We did it with them Gino Vanelli okay and or Gino Vanelli was on the week before us or something like that. I just remember seeing him on the page same page. So I imagine if they have a book that chronicled everything, they would have them somewhere.
00:48:11
Speaker
I would think. Okay, well good. Well, it'd be great to get those because that was, you you know, for the younger people may not realize, but those were a big deal. I mean, that's getting on the Johnny Carson show. Yeah. yeah Huge.
00:48:23
Speaker
Huge. Yeah. Who knew we would just fly. We were so busy, you know, we fly in and, and I was always disappointed because I thought, Oh, we're going to have a really nice dressing room. I mean, for us at CBC, when our guests came in, we would pick them up with a chauffeur driven limousine. They would have, you know, a bottle of their favorite booze waiting for them in the dressing room. We made their clothes. Tommy Banks did their charts. ah They stayed at the Ritz Carlton.
00:48:50
Speaker
You know, I mean, they were treated like royalty. And when we went to do like Merv Griffin and Johnny Carson, which I thought was the nth degree, you know, you get a small room with the chair in there. that it and Take a taxi there and a taxi back, you know, yeah but still, but still that, that size of an audience and and that kind of exposure. Oh yeah. i for that right Oh yeah. We didn't, we didn't get paid.
00:49:17
Speaker
we would have paid them to be on those shows. oh yeah oh yeah Luckily we didn't have to pay them. We just got on and it was, yeah we almost did it when we were either working in Vegas or in Reno. but um Both Dina Shore and Merv Griffin, we did live from Caesars. One was live from Caesars Palace. One was from the MGM Grand. And I think we did them twice. yeah So yeah. And then Johnny Carson was done from the studio. Yeah.
00:49:41
Speaker
Oh, wow. No, that's very cool. Holy cow. yeah So, and and you're still singing. i so I see on here you, you recorded in 2008, you released a CD, look at me now. And I listened to some of that and yeah really nice, that song nice sound. Like I like your sultry voice and the production's really good and keep the faith you did. and the And you redid first time I ever saw your face too. Nice version of that. Yeah. yeah That was a long time ago. That's like 20 years ago. oh well yeah sixteen i guess yeah Something like that. Yeah. where Where was that recorded? Okay. Well, that's another complicated story, but I'll make it short. I was, uh, I was working in Atlantic city and, um, there was this agent, he wasn't really an agent. He was a wannabe agent, let's say, and he, he was very wealthy on part of the casino. His name was Hal Darnell.
00:50:28
Speaker
And he came to me and he says, how come you're not recording? How come you're not doing TV? And I just said, you know, it takes money to make an album these days. You know, there's no record companies out there who are going to spend that kind of money. So he said, well, let's do one. So I said, well, if I'm going to do it, I'd like to do it i back in Canada again with all my old guys, you know, like the best musicians were from Canada out of Toronto. And um so um so we went there and he put up the money ah for the like in the beginning and then when he was supposed to come up with the ending, he had a different agenda where I was concerned. yeah It was kind of like a carrot he was dangling and I wasn't interested. And so so um i i I just walked away from it. And I don't know if you've ever heard of Justin Gray. Justin Gray was the producer. He wrote a couple of songs on there and I wrote a couple of songs too. And um
00:51:23
Speaker
And he was really angry and I couldn't work with him anymore. I mean, I don't blame him. but You know, I didn't have the money. The money was promised. Nothing was in writing. And so and this guy was a shyster. So he since died. You know, he was very old at the time. But then somebody played because I was working at Atlantic City, somebody played it for Butch Ingram.
00:51:45
Speaker
that album, the demos of that album. And he was really impressed with it. Butch Ingram was from you know the Ingram Brothers and he works he's worked with everybody. I mean, everyone from Beyonce, Mary J. Blige, you name it. you know Anyway, um he ah he said, you know, I i really love it. and Let's just let's do it and and release it here. So we ended up doing that and we released it on Society Hill Records. But again, we're in that time.
00:52:15
Speaker
frame where having hit record is impossible. Now you need an online persona. You need a social media team making you into a icon on whatever. Yeah, it's a different world. It's a different world now. It's a different world. Yeah, but we're still plugging away because we love it. And you can't not do it, right? You can't not do it if you love it and you're doing it. So I did another album since then called I'm doing fine. And i um I wrote the songs on most of the songs on that album. And you know we have a nice working relationship. And he's the guy that I just did the movie with in ah Philadelphia. so that that was so So just a couple of things. you You live in Florida now. Is that correct? Yes. OK. How did you end up in Florida? ah Well, when I got married to my second husband, Nick, I had two babies.
00:53:12
Speaker
and was really hard to work and we moved to London, Ontario, which then I hated it there at that time. It was the music scene was kind of dead and coming from Toronto, you know, so I got a call from my agent asking me if I wanted to work on the cruise ships and carnival cruise lines. Right. Okay. Yeah. And so it was really hard because I had two small children, but I was actually commuting from London, Ontario. I took a plane from London to Toronto.
00:53:42
Speaker
to Fort Lauderdale, then either to, and then to Puerto Rico, and then to one of the islands, twice a week, every week. Yeah, I would fly when at Wednesday morning down to to, and then come home Saturday morning. And I was a four days on the ship every week. So it was like, we better move to Florida. So we relocated to Fort Lauderdale. And that was the reason. And I love it here. And I've been here ever since.
00:54:10
Speaker
Oh, very nice. Yeah, no, that's good. So but you still had the Toronto connection. That's what tied into the recording part of it. You're still connected with Toronto and London and you wanted to come back to Toronto to record. Well, that was way before the ships. That was at least done ten I don't know. it It was before. But I wanted to come back there and record. But honestly, um when I did that, I realized that They're not as accepting in Canada of an older performer, you know, being at the time I was in my forties. OK, and um it was like in your forties, you're old, you know, and well yeah so I mean, especially at that time, there was a lot of new punk rock was happening and grunge and that sort of thing. And, and um you know,
00:55:00
Speaker
ah and and And I always had that sort of complex about being older, because I was so young when we started. right And I remember thinking when I first started, oh, when I'm 30, I'm going to quit this business. When I'm 35, I'll be done. yeah Right. like And I'm about to, ah in about 10 days I'm gonna celebrate my 70th birthday. right And I'm still singing and I'm still doing big shows. you know So i don't know why i ever I don't know why I ever thought that, but a lot of, there's an attitude in Canada with regards to age that doesn't exist as big here. I mean, that there's there's a part of it, but I mean, Butch Ingram, who's my producer in Philadelphia, he wants me to um you know get this whole online thing going again,
00:55:47
Speaker
because of this new movie that's coming out and I'm like saying I'm 70 years old he's going well so what do you realize you have this huge audience out there you know and I'm like not really and he's like you do you do and so let's let's see what we can well I think yeah a couple points I would make there one one is pop music has always been sort of leaning to the young and a lot of people went country because country is more forgiving and you can be an older artist there But now we have this phenomenon of the nostalgic artists, you know, the people that are still that were there back in the day and are still viable today can still make a living. I mean, you know, i'm I'm six years younger than you, but I'm doing better than ever because of the nostalgic view of things. Just have my best year ever last year. And this so this year will be even better. But it's the nostalgic artists. So that that's the way to kind of look at it. that Your age is actually works for you rather than against you.
00:56:37
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I would really love now as much as I never wanted to tour in the past. I would love to tour Canada now. I would love to. I mean, I remember we opened for um Roberta Flack and Paul Williams back in the 80s and we did all the Jubilee auditoriums and Plastés are in Montreal and, you know, I think Massey Hall in Toronto. And ah i I would love to do that now, you know, now that I have perspective. Yeah.
00:57:07
Speaker
Yeah, yeah it's but we're not doing, I'm not really doing anything in Canada, you know, I'm not really doing anything there. um ah With YouTube, with the YouTube stuff now, you know, it doesn't matter where you are, you can do whatever you want.
00:57:21
Speaker
So um can i can I do some rapid fire questions here? i got I got a few more I wanted to ask you. I know we've been we've yeah going on a lot, but what great content and really appreciate you being so frank and sharing your story. and Oh, i can I can talk forever and ever. You've got to shut me up. good I can hear myself talking, but I just keep thinking of things to say.
00:57:41
Speaker
So let me ask you a few things here. Um, what was your goal when you started? Like if you just said when you were 16 years old, I want to be, and then a big star yeah and you reached your goal, right? So I want to be a big star doing television and radio. I want to have a friend who I can, who I say, Hey, want to hear my latest CD? There you go. Yeah. Well, so my latest record, you achieved your goal, right? That you want. Yes. Yes, I do. Yep. Really too early.
00:58:07
Speaker
Yeah, I guess, but that's that's the rub, right? um Did you do much studio work? Did you sing on other people's projects? Did you get asked about that very much? No, I didn't really sing on other people's projects, but I did a lot of um um i did a lot of like commercials and things like that.
00:58:22
Speaker
and um you know i I'm not a backup singer. You know, I'm not, I'm not really good at backup vocals. I'm a lead singer. Okay. no No, fair enough. And how much songwriting did you do? I know you did, you know, a lot of times back then, especially with groups like yourself, they would just bring songs and say, well, we're going to do this or this in case there was obviously ah a cover tune. Did you do any songwriting back then?
00:58:46
Speaker
I did I was writing songs and that my second husband Nick Kukunato was great really good songwriter and we wrote together. yeah And I ah but I was very, very I had no confidence in myself where my songwriting was concerned. I just felt like Somebody's going to listen to this and go, you know this is crap. I didn't pursue it, but guess what? i'm singing I'm recording songs now that I wrote back then. I'm going to be recording a song right now that I wrote almost 40 years ago. wow yeah
00:59:16
Speaker
yeah Yeah. And then, so I guess the rub with, with, uh, especially back then, you know, you're chasing hit songs, right? you did All they want is the record company just wants hit songs. They don't care about your personal artistic expression to be blunt about it. Right. It's just, we just need to sell, right? Well, that's changed, you know, that's changed now. You know, it's, it's that the artists that people want to get to know. Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. It's the artists that makes a song where it used to be the song that makes the artist.
00:59:43
Speaker
Well, and that speaks to the greater point of the singer songwriter. You're writing songs from your heart and then singing them from your heart and hoping that that translates to your audience, right? Yeah, to me I thought that was anybody who got that level of success I thought was that was it, you know, yeah for sure Yeah, and then what about the business stuff managers were you ever taken advantage of did you ever feel slighted in the business? I got taken advantage of by my husband Robbie. Okay, he kept all my money oh and Yeah, he kept all my money and and and um I just I never was involved in the money end of things or the business end of things. I'm still really bad at it. All I ever want to do was sing and I'm not good at at negotiating what I'm what I I don't even know what I'm worth. And I i just want to
01:00:33
Speaker
be on the artistic end of things. I really hate anything to do with managers and money and negotiation. It's not for me. I had Susan Jaxx on the podcast a couple times and I knew her because she lives in Vancouver and and same story. She was on our show. We had Susan Jaxx on our show. Terribly taken advantage of by Terry.
01:00:53
Speaker
And so similar story, right? So I'm sorry to hear that, but I guess when you, what you think is a strength being an artistic person, they look at it as a weakness, I guess, and just say, we're all looking for them. Well, you know what? Robbie was my husband and I just thought, okay. I mean, the whole idea in the very beginning was we're going to sing and we're going to make money and we're going to buy a nice house and we're going to have a family. That's what we did. And we saved, we saved every penny. And he, I didn't even realize at the time that he was kind of sick where that was concerned.
01:01:22
Speaker
And he wouldn't even put his money in the bank. He used to keep it under the bed in a shoe box. We had $300,000 in a shoe box under our bed. And then finally, we bought an apartment at the Harbor Square. And I think we paid $125,000 for it. And he took a mortgage because he just was so afraid to give up any of that cash.
01:01:45
Speaker
wow And when I finally left, I just said, I'm out of here. I don't want anything. I just want out. And I let him handle everything, thinking that he was going to take care of the both of us. But in the end, he took care of himself. OK. Yeah, sorry to hear that. Sad to say. Well, yeah, I know. It is what it is. It's not as rare a story as it should be. But I'm sorry you know that. I know. Yeah. The other question I have. OK, I'm collecting all the royalties now. Oh, good for you. So you get residuals on stuff?
01:02:15
Speaker
Oh yeah, yeah. ah true All the music, yeah. nice I don't know if you know John Luongo, but he was, um he mixed all of our records. He's an amazing guy and he's now in the business of collecting royalties for people. he He and I have a nice relationship and every once in a while, you know, ah three or four times a year, I get a nice chunk of change. Good for you. Well, you deserve it. You earned it. So you've rubbed shoulders with lots of people. I mean, the list of people that you've worked with or had on the show or or toured with or whatever is really, really long. um Any of those really stand out to you? Do you still keep in touch with any of them? ah You know what? No, there's no one that I, I mean, I was really young and most of those performers were older. So a lot of them are gone. yeah And I mean, um
01:03:03
Speaker
ah What's her name? Who the puppeteer who I just mentioned? Sherry. Oh, Sherry. Sherry cherry Lewis. Yeah. I mean, I was friends with her, but she's long gone. Yeah. And um I i um I don't know. The time just went, you know, everything was a passing yeah phase. You know, it was like happening so fast. But now when I do the big disco shows and I'm on like, i would I did a show with the Jacksons a couple of years ago. Oh, wow. And Tavares and um I can't even think um uh of the names of the people but they were all big big disco stars yeah and we all know each other when we get together it's like a nice family and nobody's competing with anybody anymore it's just we're all we're all just feeling grateful that we're there you've passed that point in life yeah no that's that's right and so that's that's in atlantic city you said you do that no we do it mostly in new york city um we got a we got a big thing coming up on the 26th of october yeah um it's um and ah it's
01:04:01
Speaker
called LOV, Legends of Vinyl. And if anybody wants a ticket to a great disco show and they live in New York City, or even if you want to travel with, confide it on YouTube. Oh, that's great. Legends of Vinyl, LOV, love is the message. Awesome. Well, that's great. And then you're still singing and recording. I watched the Fields of Gold on your YouTube channel. I don't know how that was during COVID. Oh, I just did that.
01:04:24
Speaker
I just did that in my house when I think, yeah, it was during COVID. Yeah. It was, it was like, I think I said, you know, how many times can you organize your sock drawer? That's right. at thats yeah I got to sing. I got to do something. I got to sing. Yeah. So I i was just did it in my home office. Yeah. No, that's good. So what else are you doing in planning? you've You said you liked the tour. Okay. well He we just did the movie. We did a movie. It's like a Hallmark kind of thing. And basically what we did is called a sizzle. It's like a teaser of a movie. And it it was done. It was some it's called my very first kiss or my first kiss. Okay. And it's about it's an old story. It's about this woman. She's still alive. She lives in Philadelphia. And she had a boyfriend when she was like 13. He was a neighborhood kid. And, you know, he kissed her on the cheek and she never forgot it. And then 50 years later, they reconnected on Facebook.
01:05:14
Speaker
Cool. And so I put my producer asked me if I wanted to sing the title song, um which is called My Very First Kiss. And I went and did it. And they said, you know, the the guy who was producing it said, you look like the the star, the the woman who we're writing this movie about. And which do you do you act? You know, so next thing you know, I got the lead part. Oh, very nice. get The lead part. And I got my current partner doing the that My my love interest in the movie. Yeah. Oh nice. So it's it's not an actor no really yeah So it's all filmed it's all done and it's gonna be released when my parts done But it's the things it's not finished yet And I'm not sure when they're when it's released because it's not finished as yet. I got you It's just we just we just did it like recently like real recently. Yeah. Yeah like a ah month or so ago so next year some probably yeah yeah yeah, and it's called
01:06:11
Speaker
my very first kiss my very first okay oh awesome well that's great yeah and uh and the and the title song will probably be on the ah i'm doing an album yeah it will be on the album it that's the name of the album and um i did just did a music video for that yeah i did it i did it at the victrola studios you know his master's voice um the old ones from way back when uh in new jersey yeah i think it's it's right on the board of new jersey in philadelphia And it's that that that studio now is like a speakeasy club with an amazing
01:06:45
Speaker
Recording studio on the second floor. oh Cool. And we did that. We shot the the video in there. Yeah. Oh, really? Really really fun. No, that's really good. Well, you know, what's inspirational, like, like what you're sharing is, uh, an inspiration because you still got aspirations. You still have things you want to do and you're still fully engaged, which is great. I mean, I, oh yeah you know, I, I can't believe it, but honestly, I'm allowed to say this. My voice is better than ever. I don't know what happened, but it's gotten stronger over the years.
01:07:13
Speaker
And, um, I, I did have a problem with my voice about 25 years ago. Um, and I had to have throat surgery and it wasn't anything to do with singing or abuse. that I had a, I had a stone on my vocal cord, like a little cyst from acid reflux. And so I took a year off and the doctor told me, do not sing. That's what got me off the ships. And I think I wanted to get off anyway. So that's how the universe works, you know? yeah And, uh, I, um,
01:07:43
Speaker
I couldn't, I couldn't talk for three, months three months. No, I couldn't sing, couldn't talk for three months and I couldn't sing for a year. oh So I got a job in real estate buying and selling real estate. Basically I got my license and um that's where I made my real money. yeah yeah there you go So, you know, it was like serendipitous for me, but at the time it felt like everything that, you know, when everything's falling apart, it's usually falling together. You just got to get out of the way. But, um,
01:08:08
Speaker
Anyway, it came back my voice came back better than ever, and it's just gotten stronger. It might be my Welsh heritage. My father was Welsh, and the Welsh have amazing voices, and they seem to get better. I mean and went to see Tom Jones recently. He's 83, and he was just amazing. yeah so I don't know, but I'm really grateful for that. Every day I say thank you, God, for that. Well, there you go. And yeah, that's right. Tom Jones was a very rugged power singer, but it worked out for him. Right. So, Oh yeah. no And he's still a rugged power singer. There you go. yeah Well, good for you. No, I'm, I'm happy. Like your, your story's a happy one. Are you, are you happy? Is life good? Oh my God. I think I'm happier than I've ever been in my whole life right now. I just moved into my dream house, which I've been planning for a long time. I totally gutted it. Yeah.
01:08:59
Speaker
Um, I'm in love. I have a new partner and I'm madly in love. good And, uh, my kids and my grandkids live right across the street from me. oh wow I was able, I was able to help them get a home. That is like, I had a hidden agenda because I wanted them close. And, uh, you know, I have two, I have seven brothers and sisters and they're, we're all very close. I mean, really, I just sent so blessed. I really am. I wake up every day and I can't believe how Lucky I am. I got to achieve most of my goals, and I'm still feeling um you know challenged by some things that I want to do. So it's all good. Well, not that's a nice story. I mean, you know life kicks us around a little bit, but you thank God, you thank the people around you. And and if you're comfortable in your own skin and you're happy where you are, that's a good thing. It's as good as it gets. Yeah. i just um if i If somebody would have told me, you know
01:09:58
Speaker
30 years ago that I'd be sitting here telling you this story. Maybe I could have relaxed, you know, i guess maybe I could have said, Oh, you know, cause you know, they're, they're tight, you know, right after I split up from Robbie and i I remarried and I had children that was very, very difficult time. And it was, I was, I was like seriously depressed. yeah So I went through all of that and, um, uh, you know, it's really, really hard to pull up your own bootstraps. It really is. It's hard to climb out of a hole.
01:10:28
Speaker
Yeah, I guess. And and you just dig into inner strength. And if you have a faith, you can you know, faith carries you through. Yeah. And luckily, it I wrote some really good songs. Oh, good. Well, it's I wrote a book a number of years ago and I interviewed over 300 people between the age of 65 and 100. And I asked them, you know, what what would you what would you do differently? And one lady said it really well. She said, you know, when I was younger, I was so self-conscious and I was so worried about everything. Now I'm older. ah I'm just me. I'm just a human being trying to live my life. I should have just, I wish I realized that when I was 20 years old.
01:11:03
Speaker
yeah Yeah that's true because I really didn't have any confidence in myself. I really believed Robbie was the you know the be-all and the end-all and I was his, you know I mean I started out as his backup singer yeah you know and um I really didn't have and honestly he he kind of liked that, he liked that I was in that position and he he would you know, keep that going right yeah that'ss so without saying too much. Cause I love the guy, you know, yeah no i fair he was just, he was narcissistic. I got it. He just, he really had that. And control controlling is what is part of that. So yeah, no, I hear you. Well, thanks for sharing everything that you shared, man. This is a really, um, really content rich and and great stuff. So thank you. You did a really great interview. Thank you.
01:11:52
Speaker
Many thanks to Cheryl Rae Yates for being part of the liner notes podcast and sharing some insights from her life in the music biz. More information is available. She has a fantastic YouTube channel. If you want to check that out, just look for Cheryl Rae Yates. It'll come up right away. We hope you enjoyed the podcast and invite you to subscribe to it and share it on social media so others can enjoy it as well. And we also invite you to listen to Dusty Discs Radio Tuesdays and Thursdays to hear the music from the artists you're hearing on this show. So until next time, I'm Dan here.