Transcript
Speaker: Hi it's Dan here for Dusty Discs Radio and this is the podcast Liner Notes Revealing Chats with Canada's Retro Music Makers. Today I'm very honoured to have as my guests Terry Crawford and Rick Johnson, best known for their time ah in the Terry Crawford Band. We'll be talking about their many musical adventures and we'll get some insights into the Canadian music scene from two people have been part of it since the early 70s. So thanks for joining me today, Terry and Rick. How are you? We're very well. Nice to be talking to you. Yeah, since the early 70s. Holy guacamole, that's over 50 years. How does that feel looking back? ah It's been a while. We started in high school in 1971 in Winnipeg.
Speaker: Wow. Well, good for you. What a success story. i hear you ah You've had a happy life, I'm assuming, because I often ask my guests that, because people measure success by different metrics. and And some people have been successful by one metric and aren't real satisfied with their life in other ways. and We've been very fortunate. you know We have two beautiful children. They're adults now, of course. Nice. And they have ah happy lives, successful lives. no And um yeah, we're in a good place in our life. We're sort of semi -retired, but still working. Yeah, we've we've always been involved in music. We had the band toured until 1988, I guess. And then um we started working just as a duo. we We figured we've been in music all this time. This is what we do. yeah And we were very successful with that. We also branched into children's music when our kids were little because we're
Speaker: You know, it was another opportunity. We did that. We're always very good at pivoting. You know, we have to. It's the only source of income. So yeah you got to find a way. i want I want to ask you about all that for sure. and and But what I wanted to ask you about ah first of all, was the your influences are like and when you were growing up, but what music training did you have? Because it's interesting ah back in that day and i'm I'm not too far behind you in terms of age. I grew up in the 60s and 70s. Everyone wanted to be in a band and some people went the formal route and got some training and other people just picked up a guitar and just started singing and playing. What was your experience in that? um I'll go first. um You know, I had
Speaker: I started playing drums when I was 10. I mean, honestly, that was the same year I saw The Beatles on Ed Sullivan, right which is but sort of a common denominator with people our age. And um you know I took piano lessons when I was little, guitar lessons, drum lessons, and we formed a band. And you know when I was in grade seven, I think it was at Royal School and in Winnipeg, Charleswood, the suburb of Winnipeg. and ah we You know, we had the Guess Who as local influences who, you know, were the we who made it. And it it said, well, if they can do it, then there's an avenue to go that route. And um I was fortunate to be a playground leader one year in 1971 for a summer job. And ah this wonderful lady
Speaker: volunteered to join me in helping arrange a sort of campfire sing -along for all the kids and She's sitting right across from me right now. Very nice. No, I never had any kind of formal training at all. I was born in Montreal ah Was raised there and left when I was 12. My dad was in the army He got transferred to Winnipeg. Okay, but while I was in Montreal ah going going to Catholic school and There's always choirs in a Catholic school so I always sang in the in the choir and when I got home or when I moved to to Winnipeg and eventually um You know was enrolled in the school that Rick was at ah the first night ah Sort of introduction to meeting the teachers and being in the building. There was a concert and ah Rick had a band at the time. He was on stage and and playing guitar. and um i don't know he kind of looked ah I had no interest in boys because i was I was into horses. That's all they did was horses. and Anyway, I thought, gee, this is kind of cool. This would be fun. you know and Then I don't know i kind of started stalking him at school and the next thing you know, I found out that he was going to be a playground leader and they were looking for volunteers.
Speaker: I put my hand up and rest is history. So yeah the the good side of stalking there. is but ah Yes. Well, the interesting thing, you you make a good point about the singing though, because there's a certain sort of innate sense that some people have or some musical affinity that they have. And you guess you just open your mouth and start singing and it sounds pretty good. And you just have that feel, I guess. It's a gift. It's a gift, right? For sure. Yeah, yeah, interesting. And then so you started performing. But the the other thing about Winnipeg, I mean, that was a thriving music scene. So it was both inspiration and competition, right? There was lots of musicians. Well, the the winters are very long. They're very cold. You spend a lot of time in the basement. But you have to be decent to get into that fray because lots of good musicians. Right. Sure. There was great musicians and many venues. So many venues at the time. I mean, we we turned 18 the same year they lowered the drinking age to 18. So suddenly um this whole market opened up and every pub in the city wanted to have entertainment. So okay you could literally work six days a week
Speaker: And in a different pub every week and never play the same place twice in a year. Right. There was that much work. So as a training ground, it was probably one of the best in North America because we could just get out there and play five nights or six nights a week. And when we started, we were all underage. So we were actually playing licensed dining rooms. There was three places we could play and we rotated between the three of them but plus going to high school. yeah Except my dad insisted I had to be home at midnight. yeah okay but But it was such a great venue.
Speaker: And you know if you did have a ah week off, you'd be going out to all the pubs to check out the other bands to see what they were up to. And and that speaks yeah that speaks to my point is that one thing that people don't that don't get to doesn't get recognized enough is that you know some people say, well, music's not a competition. Well, it is kind of in a way because you want to be better. We were polishing one another. You go and see other bands and you think, geez, those guys are really good. We better up our game here. We better you know polish this up. Yeah, true. Absolutely. And then we we did that, I guess, from 1971 until 1976 in Winnipeg. And we started to make the odd journey into Ontario, and which was a bigger market. Yeah.
Speaker: And the money was about double what we were getting paid in Winnipeg. OK. So over two or three years of going back and forth, we were outnumbered. Different people in the band decided they wanted to go back to Winnipeg and be in Winnipeg, their family and girlfriends, et cetera, back there. So we ended up at we were outnumbered after a while. And so we decided to make the move and relocated. And it took us The first, I think once we made the decision, um
Speaker: Dale Saunders joined our band as a keyboard player. And Dale is still with us. nice And so he's been with us since 1977. And you know we had some downtime when we were all off doing different things, having families, et cetera. But ah he's still with us. And it's he's he's just, um he's my musical brother. Well, good. Well, so I often ask my guests, you know, how much of what happened was Define, you know, do you have a defining moment or how much was it planned or happenstance or just straight -up accident? Sounds like you had a bit of a plan That you were willing to kind of go to the big city. It's a bit cheeky I guess you just figure well let's move there and see what happens. I mean that that's the big city, right? Yeah, it was a long drive from Winnipeg to to Toronto So we wanted to just we got lazy just spared ourself that but you got to find your way into the scene as well Definitely to do that
Speaker: Well, we had agents and we had new management when we came to Toronto who opened a lot of doors for us. um We played clubs up and down the Yonge Street Strip. you know we I can remember one of the first times we we were in there, we went to the, I think it was called the Chimney, it was right across there, just finishing building the Eaton Centre at the time. And it was Ronnie Hawkins band. What's the chimney? Was it the nickelode Nickelodeon? Nickelodeon, sorry. The Nickelodeon. And we um it was Ronnie Hawkins Band was playing there. And in that time period, um David Foster was might have been playing keyboards for them. um The actress who was in the vacation movies, Beverly DeAngelo, he had two female background singers. So so it was you you get there and you're seeing these phenomenal musicians once again. yeah
Speaker: You go by the Piccadilly tube and Russia's name was on the front of it. So yeah um it was really something to be able to get in there and play. And then, you know, once again, you had to up your game. And once we got the our the new group settled, um you know, we had the right combination. um We were lucky to have landed a a recording contract. with our c We were we were like, you know, over what? How many years for like a ah
Speaker: 187, 287 days a year. Was it on the road, like for 17 years? well i guess the Coast to coast. That's the way you find your way. I mean, you got there, you got live shows at the bars. I guess, did you do the college university school dance circuit? Fabulous. Yeah, those are great, aren't they? Oh yeah. I'm sure you've done that too. Oh yeah. Well, the school dances used to be a big deal. like You could do a bunch of those and they paid pretty decent and they were super fun gigs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Another great market was the Maritimes because you could go down and play. They had huge clubs down there. yeah They had all the universities, there's five or six of them clustered. and yeah I remember one year we were doing a tour down there and there was five bands playing or six playing and we rotated every night to a different college.
Speaker: was ourselves, Harlequin, Bryan Adams, Powder Blues, I think Downchild, and Minglewood. So, and you know, we'd we'd see each other at the gas stations as we'd be going through town. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, you have a, I guess, a ah professional ah acquaintance with lots of different people, but you're busy and working. And that's, I like to get out and see other bands when I can, but if you're working a lot, it's really, really hard to do that. Yeah. Yeah. So you have sort of professional, I guess you have professional friendships in the sense that you respect each other and what you're doing, but you're not real good buddies because you don't get to hang out very much. No, definitely. yeah It's funny. I can remember a Sunday night we were playing or we were in Halifax and we went to the palace, which was a very large club down there. Standing at the bar was Ralph James from Harlequin.
Speaker: A couple of guys from The Arrows, um the bass player and drummer from a Platinum Blonde, ourselves, and another band. and Ralph looked across, he says, look at this. He says, a million dollars worth of talent and none of us are working. and There was a young guy up on stage coming out ah who was guesting with the band that was there. um and He got up and played. And was it the Jeff Healy? Jeff Healy. Oh, there you go. Yeah. It was brand new just started and we're just going, okay, we see why he's still working tonight. Yeah. Yeah. He was something special. All right. So you so you landed a record deal. And and the the one thing I wanted to ask you about is how did you categorize your music? Because it seems to be a lot of um
Speaker: I don't know, let's say blurred lines between, you know, pop and rock. And of course, a new wave was coming out in adult contemporary. And some of your songs are a little bit heavier. But theyre what did you call it? Well, for us, it was sort of a pop rock thing. You know, we grew up with ah Fleetwood Mac, you know, rumors and all that came out in the early 70s. And that's, you know, we cut our teeth on that, but we were also doing Carole King material. We were doing stuff by Liz Eppen. I mean, we we did stuff by Yes. It was it just a cross -section of material.
Speaker: And just what we liked. In hindsight, I think we got signed three years after we should have, you know, um because things were starting to go into like the the new new wave stuff was coming out. And um we were comfortable in growing up during the early 70s and mid 70s, you know, doing the Southern rock stuff would that was out there, a lot of Linda Ronstad as well. And it um Well, you even you even recorded Standing in the Shadows of Love, which is an old Motown tune. Yeah. Well, that was Terry's choice. She really loves that. Great shot. Well, so do I. But just again, it's it it sort of puts you... i mean I mean, all of us that grew up in that era, we were influenced by everybody from Orbison to The Beatles to Zeppin to Cat Stevens. Who cares? It was just a big shotgun blast of great music.
Speaker: But then when the record company wants to market that, they got to say, okay, what are you guys? What do you do? Yeah, they want to put you in a box, don't they? For sure, because they got to sell that yeah you know and specifically. And so so when I listen to your music, it's it's it's sort of new wave -ish when you hear some of the synth and the four key sort of tunes and stuff. It's cool, but it's it's also pop. But then you you know you're a little heavier at times, a little folkier at times. Well, we'd like to call it variety. Other people have said, where's the direction? No direction. But it was always frustrating because, I mean, if we grew up on the Beatles. Versatile. And there was such a cross section of material.
Speaker: that that they did that was in so many groups from the 60s were all over the map with styles and stuff before us either before they settled on one but um you know it it's difficult we we went searching for material we got great material when we didn't feel that we had um You know we' we're looking for a certain direction and if I wasn't writing it I was the only writer in the band and so if we if we're looking to expand more so I mean we we opened it up to
Speaker: um you know Anybody who is out there, matter of fact, our producers passed on a song by Eddie Schwartz for our first album because they didn't think it would be a hit called, Hit Me With Your Best Shot. ah you go so you know you just Where you're standing at the right moment, the door opens and if if you're not ready to go through, but I mean, we've had a really good career. yeah we've We've earned money from music and continue to today. Yeah, which is great. so But you speak to a larger point there. Musicians are influenced by lots of different things and love to play a variety of music, but the record companies, I often tell a story, but ah a friend of mine, who saw an acquaintance of mine out here who had ah a really successful song, the record company literally said to him, we need 10 more songs just like that.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. And and he's like, well, like that that was a unique song. I'm not writing 10 more songs just like that. What are you talking about? Yeah. But they wanted to sell it. So the business of music. Right. So well, ah a very successful producer who will remain nameless came out to see us play when we're, you know, in the process of getting the record contract. And our manager said, so what do you think? And he said, the singer should be blonder.
Speaker: And that was the only comment. wow And this was like one of the biggest producers in the world. and it was like yeah So you got the image, you got the attractive female singer with the great voice. I didn't dye my hair blonde, by the way. No. is well it's but you know it's it's It's being in the right place. I mean, we we came down to two record companies and the ah It was between Columbia and RCA, and Columbia signed Loverboy, which was the right choice for them, obviously. And we signed with RCA. We did three albums. The Good Girl album was very successful in Canada. Never got released in the United States, unfortunately. It was released in Europe. And funny, in 2017, the song Gunfighter from that album became a huge dance hit all over Europe. Yes, I did see that on here, yeah.
Speaker: that's and And which was bizarre, and and we didn't know anything about it. But again, I can kind of see why it's it's sort of quirky and kind of different. It just doesn't sound like anything. Well, that and the song Chocolate Candy were released, extended versions on a a dance, extended mixed dance, yeah like a 45, extended 45. Right. And that was the version that became the hit over there. So somebody got it. over there Well, so then and then again, to my point earlier, Gunfighter is like a cool, sparse sort of reggae feel.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely. so And and we we did that on stage that it was originally, ah it's a song by a group called Buckwheat that we saw back in the early 70s. And it was a country rock song. And we were just, it was one of those nights when there wasn't very many people in a club and we started playing it that way. Yeah, giving it the lb the yeah that Yeah.
Speaker: You know, at night, sometimes we do every song that way, just for fun. But go but it it took off and then we recorded as an afterthought. And then we did this another song on that album called Chocolate Candy, yeah which it was another quirky song that did really well. And Michelle Donato played bass on it. Interesting. So again, that's kind of new wave -ish kind of cool feel kind of a song. it its he was awesomecar peter He was Oscar Peterson's bass player. Oh, wow. And he came in and just knocked it off and they said, do you want to try a solo? And he said, okay. Sounds great. Really, really good. Really good. Fretless. Yeah. No, that sounds excellent. So before we go further, you got to tell me the Terry Terry story with the I and the Y. You said you were going to tell me that.
Speaker: Right. So, you know, when, of course, we were doing one of our little pivots, ah we started to ah approach schools and stuff so that we could doing children's music do children's music while our kids were in school. And we just weren't getting any bites. And so somebody, I think somebody had mentioned eco which two guys. ah One of the teachers in college, I kind of questioned because the promo that we sent out was like the CD, which has stick people drawn on it. OK. And somebody said, who hadn't seen us, said, are you two guys? Or or what what is what is this? And we said, no, it's a it's a husband and wife team. And as soon as they found out, I said, oh, book them. So what we did is we changed the Y to the I on the children's material.
Speaker: And never thinking we were going to go back to playing with the band because it was a different way to go on to a different thing. Gotcha. And ah suddenly we got we we we were turning down work. Yeah. And and we we played over a thousand schools. Wow. Crazy. You know, and we could we could play schools when the kids were in school and be home before they got home from school. Yeah. So um and then when we came back to doing another album with the band, we went Okay, what's it gonna be, I or Y? I gotcha. So it's it's confusing for people, I know it's confusing for us. Yeah, no, like that kind of that makes sense when you explain it. i was just I was curious, because I thought maybe that sometimes ah there's another person out there with the same name and you wanna put a little twist on your name or something. I know a few people have done that over the years.
Speaker: The whole Terry Crawford thing, Crawford was actually a misprint in the newspaper, so. go Yeah, it was the band was called the Crawford, it was just called Crawford. Right. And it was because of a misprint in the newspaper. And then when we signed with RCA, it was the band was called the Crawford Avenue Band. because the manager, just if everybody's trying to find ah an angle. And the record company said, look it, she's the star and Crawford's the band. So we go if you look at the album cover, it says Terry hyphen -Crawford band. And then um the Good Girl album also has a ah dot between Terry and Crawford. ah And then that was it. The dot disappeared on the third album and the fourth album. So did you did you go lead singer syndrome on everybody and start strutting around and
Speaker: You betcha. ah Carrying your own microphone or no? No, I have someone do that. Well, you know, the joke, how many lead singers does it take to screw in a light bulb? but No. lead singers Lead singers don't screw in light bulbs. They get the bass player to do it for them. so Well, good for you. Well, you had you had your husband there to keep you in check though, right? so you would Yeah, of course. So your ego gets two out of a control. Naturally. You know what, Terry, I'll i'll say this honestly. um you know All through the 70s until you know we could afford a ah large road larger road crew,
Speaker: Terry would pick up the hand one end of the Hammond organ and move it. nice She slugged all the gear yeah with everybody. Everybody got involved and she used to beat all of us at arm wrestling. yeah Well you know what, look you speak to a good point though because if everyone's involved in the process then you're all in. and You're in it together and that's one thing about bands and I've been on the road in a little broken down van But there's a camaraderie that develops and and you're out there together and you got to make it work together. And it really is a bonding experience, I guess. Yeah, absolutely. And the guys, I mean, Dale Saunders is still our keyboard player. Jim Elder is back with us. He was with us for on the Good Girl album and the Virgin Heart album and toured with us all through that time period.
Speaker: And he's he's was on the album that just we just did last September, where we ah put out that way, where we rerecorded a dozen songs from the 80s. Yeah. to Regain to regain ownership. And yeah just because it was something to do during Covid and was fun. yeah And it was great, and we were never all in the same room except for Terry and I at any time. Yeah. As Jill came in and did all his parts, and then we did the drums and the bass up at Jim's house up in Absolu on Terry Owen. Yeah. Yeah. And we had a blast, and we're halfway through now an album of of cover material. Nice. So you're which you're still active and doing your thing?
Speaker: Absolutely. The guys are so much fun to work with and so so so is Terry. Yeah. there you go Well, you know, I often say in this one of the shows I do is often say the the world is a better place because we have music in it. Music makes the world a better place. And so we get to share that. And it's a real privilege and an honor to be able to do that. Sounds kind of campy, but I think it's true. Yeah, absolutely true. Well, during during COVID, we were locked down and and where we live, it's a, I'll say an an adult community. Right. And we've been here for about half a dozen years now. And during COVID,
Speaker: There's a lot of people who are locked up and you know, mental health comes into play here. So we started doing a song during lockdown, a different song every night. Nice. And we just posted on Facebook for people. Yeah. And we ended up um through all the lockdowns doing 360 into each night. Wow. And I think we only repeated 10 songs. Well, good for you. So we just do it and and it was just to try to spread the... Yeah, you don't realize you don't realize the power that music had. We've still bumped into people who you know would have seen those songs and and grown men actually breaking down into tears and saying, you have no idea how important, how much I look forward to your shows every night. Because we were very consistent with the time. Usually it was like 5 .30, 6 o 'clock when people were making dinner or sitting down to dinner.
Speaker: Yeah, so uh, yeah, we'd get emails from people if we were late. Yeah Well good. Well, it sounds like you you lifted some spirits for sure with the with the gift of music Yeah, it made us feel pretty good, too. Yeah So let me actually just want to bounce back to your good girl gone bad album And I mean you guys so you get to toronto you get the record deal. You got some fairly major players You got an rca deal. So you're you're on your way and then you did virgin heart in 83 And with i'm sorry and one time for old times. I mean that's uh of all your songs that one Really stuck with me because I heard it so much and listened to of course that was I don't know um if that's your biggest Song that you had but for me it certainly was it Gary o 'connor wrote that gary o and it's funny because
Speaker: He has a cottage very close to a fellow we've been working with musically for the last little while. But we opened for Gary when he was in the band Liverpool, which was a Beatles cover band in the late 70s in Ontario. But it's a great song. That's actually the title of the latest album. Yes, I saw that and that makes perfect sense. So you got tons of airplay with that, then you went on a big tour. I mean, you're touring with the Beach Boys, I guess, on the strength of that album and that song. And we did three summers with them, 81, 82, and then 83, which was the year yeah one time was out. Actually, there's there's videos of that up on YouTube of that tour yeah when we were playing at the CNE. Yeah, i did I did watch some of those. yeah I watched one anyway.
Speaker: Um, and so you must have thought, I mean, from your personal experience, then you must have thought, okay, we've made it now. I mean, you got a record deal, you got songs on the radio, you're touring, you know, so now what more touring, more recording. Now, what are you going to do? Well, you know, we, You know, it' it sounds really nice doing those tours. We did 10 days in 1987 with the Beach Boys across Canada with one day off. We drove the whole thing. We played Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, Sudbury, Hamilton, um Ottawa, Quebec City, and Montreal. And we had a day off between Winnipeg and Sudbury.
Speaker: well And so we spent more time driving than we did on stage. But we got on stage with them, and we were invited up to do the encores with them every night. Nice. ah just They were really nice people. Terry had been in touch with Billy Hinchy on Facebook often over the years. Yeah, until he passed away. And he passed away. He didn't never said he was sick. Well, so yeah. But that's unfortunate. But really nice group of people who Their attitude was the opening act gets 75 % of use of the lighting, the full PA. And because their attitude, their sound man said, he says, Carl Wilson said, if they can' if we can't walk on stage and do California girls,
Speaker: and become the headlining act, then we don't deserve to be the headline act. yeah you know We want a good show, the the opener sound will be treated with respect. Good point, because they were living legends at that ah point, right? Absolutely. So they had nothing to prove to anybody. And why not help you? I mean, the old opening yak you deal where the know the opening yak does 30 minutes and it's a waste of time and get them off the stage. I mean, some some managers would either take no money or pay to have their band as the opening act for the stage time.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and to get back to your point, like, you know, you think we feel in our hearts, we must have felt like, oh, we've got it made. yeah Well, we sort of did until the reality set in when we had to go back to playing bars. yeah And then, you know, you play a bar and a guy says, you're too loud and can you play more cover stuff? We don't want to hear the original music. It's like, okay. It's like, boom, like, just, you know, Yeah. Reality. Reality. Well, the thing is, you know, we and I've been fortunate enough to make a living for over 40 years in the music business, but you take the ride and a few of my friends got to take the ride too. And I mean, the big stars, you know, the Brian Adams and the Lover Boys, they make a pile of money. But the mid -level bands that have had some airplay and had some modicum of success do well, but they're not financially independently wealthy. They're still trying to find gigs and working like everybody else.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, you know, we bought a house and when we were 25 in Oshawa, Ontario, yeah and and our manager encouraged us to do it. Now, in hindsight, he knew that if we had mortgage payments, we were responsible players and people that we would work yeah and he would get his commission off of that. yes But that was probably the smartest thing we did because, I mean, our kid Our son lives in Toronto and you know, it's a million dollars for a house. Yeah, for sure. no yeah He always comes out and checks our pulse to make sure we're okay. Well, I was i was born in Guelph. I actually lived in Whitby in the late 60s and then my parents moved out here. But um my similar my experience was similar because we bought a house when we were younger as well, just couldn't afford it. Lots lots of those mortgage payments were hard to make at times, but you make them, right? You go and yeah find your way.
Speaker: And I think that the larger point is necessity is the mother of invention, right? You have these payments to make, you're going to get your butt out there. And it sounds like you really did say yes a lot and the tours and the driving, you're young and hungry. Just let's go get it. Let's go out there and mix it up. Absolutely. it You know, I mean, the song Dreamer from our first album was was Pick of the Week and Billboard. Great. um when it when it came out. And then the president of of RCA in the States got replaced and they froze all marketing for three months. The week after our record was released. So yeah there was no marketing done whatsoever and that was a lost opportunity. I think, yeah. you know But you know what? we we've We've had a lot of fun. Yeah.
Speaker: And we've met a lot of amazing people over the years that, um you know, you'd never know when you're, you know, who you've run into, what's going to happen to them. We were playing in just across from Hawkesbury, Ontario in Quebec one night in the mid -70s and pulled in and the other band was leaving. So we were talking to the other band. We're kind of laughing because they were in a station wagon and we had a cube bend. And then so we're we're setting up and the the bartender keeps playing the same song on the jute box over and over again. By the way, jute box is something you had to put money into play, you know, get a song. You paid for music that day. Paid for it. And anyway, I said, finally, our drummer was a little upset with the repetition. So I went up to the bartender and I said, that's a great song. I said, but
Speaker: And I said, but we're really tired of it. And who is it? He says, oh, this was the band that was here last night. You were just talking to them. And the song was? like yeah There you go. Yeah. Yeah. And they were, that was their first, you know, where they were doing all the little clubs across and the rental station wagon they had. When you look at those bands, I mean, the police, Rush, all those bands, they have a big legacy of working very hard and playing lots and lots of shows. um I think it was the drummer, ah Stuart Copeland, has that video, right? he he He had an eight millimeter video camera.
Speaker: yeah And he took a lot of videos. its Everyone stares, I think it's called. And it's his original footage from there when the police was starting out and all the big shows and the little shows. And, and oh yeah you know, I mean, you speak to a good point because you're playing some some of the places you play are big. A friend of mine was in a signed act and he said, you know, the Wednesday night we're playing a club to 50 people. And then Friday night we're opening for Kid Rock to 20 ,000 people. But yeah you know, those were the dates that paid for the hotels. Yeah, there you go. You know, you've got free free hotels and you and then so you you do Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, you know, resume speed Alberta. And then the weekend you're on Calgary and Edmonton. And yeah, but of what a life. Yeah. But but you know what?
Speaker: I wouldn't change it. no but good There's just we've you know just those moments of of having bump you know bumping into people and the memories of standing in front of 30 ,000 people playing out yeah and getting an encore at the Montreal Forum the last night with the Beach Boys. yeah It's a special feeling. as Yeah, is when you're the opening act and and just being treated so nicely by so many people over the years. You know, there was always people that didn't. Yeah, yeah that's like yeah. But you know, you remember those moments when you're ready to give up and just somebody comes up and says the right thing and you know
Speaker: Pick up your straps and away you go. Well, my old manager always used to say in the music business, try to find people who love music and love musicians because they're the least likely to so exploit you and mistreat you. Yeah, absolutely. And I thought, that's good advice. And I've always followed that. I gravitate towards people who are like that and gravitate away from people who aren't. And it's served me well over the years. Yeah, and it's people who appreciate music and art. yeah um you know It makes such a difference. we've We've got a lot of art in our house that um friends have created. Our piano player's wife, Dorothy Saunders, has has contributed much to some of the artwork that we have in here and um and then musicians. you know and We have a music room in our house, a dedicated room that is is our music room. and it's
Speaker: um part memories and part going forward, which we're sitting in at this moment. Very nice. So in 86, you had a different record deal. Did you, did the RCA deal expire? Like was that a several album deal and then it just ran out or what happened with that? You ended up on Attic Records? Yeah. Um, we had two, uh, originally it was a two album deal with RCA and then, uh, the Good Girl album did well. So we got the third deal with them. okay Um, the Virgin Heart album. And at the end of that, um RCA just, they said, you know, the sales on the third album weren't as good as the second album. So it's onward and forward. So we went at that point to the band at the time disintegrated. of There's, you know, the guys have been with us a while and they was looking at, okay, do we start it over again? And Terry and I just went, well, we're going to start over again. And we, we got,
Speaker: more new people to work with. Once again, it took us a couple of years to get organized. um But once we got organized, we did the Total Loss Control album, which we went to factor and got the money for it okay and and basically self -produced it. And then um Attic Records came in at the end and and took it took it on for distribution. So they didn't really have, they didn't have to put up any money or do much other than distribute and and then you promoted it. So you it was that for the video first step? Yes. And so I couldn't find that. I couldn't find the video on on YouTube. Yeah, we we can't find it either. Okay. um we We actually, the we found an an old VCR tape of Terry doing an interview with Gil Moore from Rush right or from Triumph. From Triumph, yeah.
Speaker: and ah They play the video on that, so okay that's the only one we've seen it where we could actually we'd have to refilm it and post it up. I wonder, um because i've I've had Gil Moron, but I had also um ah Christopher Ward on and I had Erica Ammon as well, and and I wonder if they have any access to the archives or something, because I can't imagine that it wouldn't be sitting somewhere. It it should be. And and our our piano player's brother worked for much music for a number of years, so he could probably find it. Yeah. You know, and um yeah, that was that was the only real professional video, I think, that we did. Yeah. But it's part of Canadian history. We've got to find that and check it out. That'd be cool.
Speaker: Yeah, it was kind of funny. When our kids first saw the, um Dennis Saunders had had filmed our performance at the C and &E with the Beach Boys. yeah He's the guy that worked at Much Music. Yeah. And and so he had brought a TV camera down to film it. And that's the video that's of I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I watched that. Yeah. Yeah. And that was us live. and ah and and It's it's a great capture of the band because the band was really hot this four of us are are the drummer in that video Unfortunately, John Hannah was killed in 1989 in a car accident. Yeah, but the for the other four that's us and we're still playing the four of us and yeah and um but
Speaker: You know, just the videos were just were peeking in yeah as we were, you know, finishing up. And then, um you know, at at that point, after we did that album and we gave it another shot, you know, the clock was ticking and we said, if we're going to have a family, we got to do it now. Fair enough. So we did. And we just found out a couple of weeks ago that we're a Oh good for you, congratulations. so that's yeah Our daughter and her husband are expecting a we won. Oh very nice. Well I wondered about that I thought you know because some people have done the you know raise your kids on the road thing and stuff but I just didn't like myself touring and and I just didn't want to live that life and then of course if you have a couple of kids and you're trying to work that out that would have been really tough to do right. Absolutely. Yeah and I have so much respect for those people who are are doing that now
Speaker: Um, it could have been done, but it was just, we, we did tour around just as a duo. Um, when Trisha was a baby yeah and, um, you know, it was, uh, you know, we'd play in hotels and that had to have, uh, like we'd had to be there for three or four days and they had to have a, somebody like arranged for babysitting when we were on stage. And it was, yeah, it was tough. Well, yeah, and and I think that the kids would pay a price being raised on the road. Yeah, it's a big adventure, but it's ah it's the the sort of permanent to road trip while you're growing up. So you don't have the traditional friends, school, traditional experiences that kids like to have. Exactly. So you know what? We we bought a farm so nice just before the kids were born, the year before. Beautiful. And we sold our place in Oshawa and bought a place in Pawnee Pool, Ontario, and we had 50 acres there. we
Speaker: built a recording studio for our own personal use. And that's where the kids grew up. Oh, what a nice story. That is 50 acres in of woods. they this They get a school bus every morning. Horses. We we ended up getting a um ah house gig at ah a restaurant in Oshawa where we continue playing music. And we did that for eight years but from the time our son was, well, I guess he ended up till he was about seven or eight years old. And then they were of of an age where we could have we could go back to playing smaller clubs and casinos. yeah And Terry's mom was still with us then, and she she was the master of the house when we were gone. Nice.
Speaker: and we'd only be gone for a day or two. Right. Yeah. Just the short trips. yeah Yeah. Just like the casino for the weekend, but we were only an hour or say two hours away. And and you know what? That worked. It allowed us to continue doing what we've done all our lives and what we were trained for. Good for you. you know And um we did that. And then when the kids, we started doing the children's music and that got us into schools, we could be home before the kids got home from school and earn a living. Yeah, well, and it's a different different sort of thing, but if you have that affinity to relate to kids, I tried with my kids. I went and sang at their school a few times, but I'm just not a natural kids entertainer. What was your what was your bent there? How did you do that?
Speaker: Well, actually, that that's kind of my preferred route right now. is it okay It's like, yeah, we do like 50 minutes and it is so very high energy. It's just, I don't know if you've, you may not have heard any of this stuff, but I think we've got four or five speakers. Actually, there's a video. yeah if If you Google Terry and Rick hand clap band, yeah it's had thousands of It ran on YTV's Ants in Your Pants. Ants in Your Pants, a show called Ants in Your Pants, and the host was Lickety Split. yeah They only did 24 shows and we were on four of them with that one song. well Yeah, no, I love love doing the kid stuff. It's rick all original songs that Rick has written, for the exception, the odd yeah exception, like Ghost Riders or something like that, right? And that they'll be able to relate to the kids, right? But they're great tunes, like they really are great tunes. And Terry's just, you know, she becomes
Speaker: We don't talk down to the children. you know you You treat them as equal and you just have fun. We did one a couple of weeks ago, 150 children in a gymnasium with no air conditioning and no outside doors. It was an oven. It was an oven and we had it was it was absolutely a blast. oh good yeah yeah So much fun. And then you brought up the songwriting, so I was going to ask you about that. So the kids stuff, you wrote a lot of that. But back in the day, I mean, they just want to hit songs, right? They don't really care who wrote the song. I mean, the record company could care less, right? mean Exactly. So how much writing did you do on the albums? I didn't check all the credits. Well, yeah on if
Speaker: On the new one we did, the One Time for Old Times album, I've written or co -written nine of the 12 songs. nice And those like a Dreamer, um which was a good airplay, a turntable hit we'll say. um I'm Sorry he was one of mine. Getaway, which was a big hit really for several years because it was about getting away from the city for the summer. Yeah, that's a great song. It's nice and bouncy, great harmonies. it's kind of It sounds like a West Coast feel good song. like a yeah yeah yeah Well, that was during our Beach Boys touring days. There you go. Perfect.
Speaker: yeah and you know so ah boy I'm just looking at the albums on the wall here. I wrote eight on the first one, I think four on the Good Girl album. six maybe on Virgin heart and then you know yeah half of it you know I and with the kids music um written a lot there was a song I did for there was a songwriting contest to find a new Bobby Gimby song in 19 Canada's hundred and twenty fifth and I was one of the finalists on a thousand thousand dollars for that yeah
Speaker: So, and it was a lot of fun, and we since recorded it and got great coverage. We still use it. Song called Calling Canada. Calling Canada. Nice. There's a video for that. There's a video for that, yeah. But that song's actually been sort of adopted by, it was like Girl Guides and stuff like that, when they would go on there. It was over to Europe. Over to Europe, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it was kind of cool. It's a very patriotic song. Yeah. Very cool. and And then that um the movie soundtrack broken dream. You didn't you didn't write that you were just how did that come about? You were just asked to sing it Well, I used to do a lot of songwriters demos. Okay, and I did a lot of jingles commercials and stuff and Stan Meisner actually I'd done a few things with him and he ah Wrote I guess he wrote the song there was somebody else he wrote it with but I did I never met him. Okay
Speaker: Okay. And um anyway, so i like I said, I would just go and sing songwriters demos for for Stan. And then this song came up and he said, hey, can you sing this? And just, you know, it was like not even 30 seconds, yeah really, until the screen went red, I think. Yeah. Jason takes Manhattan. Yeah, Jason takes. Yeah, so that was kind of fun. And then, you know, I discovered, we just discovered recently that somebody had actually created a video for it and actually made it like into a three minute song or something. Yeah, I wanted to edit it so that it's the same 35 seconds, but he put it back together and it's great. Yeah, interesting. I will probably have to learn it now. Yeah.
Speaker: Well, ah again, that's a bit of a departure, too, because it's a heavier kind of a song, right? It's a cool feel, but it's a heavier song than what you had done previously from what I heard. and Another demo Terry did for Stan ended up, Celine Dion did it. Oh, nice. I was driving home. Terry's in the hospital with with our son Michael for a few weeks when he was born. I was driving home from the hospital in Toronto and I heard this song and I go, God, I know this song. It was Celine Dion singing it. And then I went, Oh crap. That's the demo Terry did. um so Yeah. Yeah. And commercials wise, Terry's.
Speaker: Oh yeah, it was good. yeah That was always fun too. She was the voice of Budweiser Beer at the tail end of the 80s and early in the 90s. Coast soap, GM, I mean, you know all all the big four. So speaking and singing or both? No, just just singing. Just singing, okay. Well, you have that female, I was going to say about your voice because you got the the sort of rasp. I mean, you've been compared to Kim Carnes, but she was more razor blade voice, I think. You've got the rasp without the... Yeah. ah Completely, you know, yeah right? Well, I mean, so you got to have that balance, right? It's sort of like your toast, you know, you don't want to burn your toast, but you want it almost overdone. Yeah. yeah well here's Here's something funny. Well, not funny, actually, but Kim Carnes.
Speaker: Bonnie Tyler and Rod Stewart all have thyroid conditions. Oh yeah as does Terry Interesting by the thyroid sits on your vocal cords right beside it. So if your thyroid's around it affects your vocal interesting Yeah, so that has something to do with the sound. i There you go And then ah so in in 2010, so you took a long break from recording, but then you recorded lifelines in 2010 and Yeah, you went that was did you record that at home or did you record that? Yeah. Yeah, it was it was you know, we just we had gotten back together with the dale our keyboard player and um brian feelin a guitar player from edmonton who had been with us at the tail end of our touring days And had moved to ontario. So he was with us. So we you know, we um We it was just a chance to get together and and have some fun. Yeah, and it was self -produced
Speaker: We put it out and we had fun with it. Well, I saw the live video. I guess you were that was at the Academy Theater in Lindsay. Yeah. Yeah. So I watched that and i that's why I was asking you about your voice and you still got that very nice rasp, but you also got the control. um How does your voice feel after all these years? You know what, I think I'm actually singing better than ever. beautiful I honestly believe that, yeah. I mean, we were the Calling Canada song that we did the other day at The Kid Show, ah it's it's a little high now, so I have to actually lower it by, you know. But you know what? Terri's a fitness person. She exercises like crazy. We ride bikes. We go walking every day. She forces me to.
Speaker: And um I love our piano player Dale Saunders said he says, you know It's such a pleasure to work to see Terry working now he says because so many singers that we've known over the years have have Just blown their throats out and he says, you know, but she gets her eight -hour sleep She does all the things she's supposed to do, you know, she fishermen's friend is her is her best friend yeah Well, I the reason I asked that is because I one of the shows I do is a Bob Seger show and And I mean, he's that's not for the faint of heart. He sings A's and B's and even C sharp sometimes. And but he was a smoker and stuff. And he really burned his voice with that rasp. And I did a TV jingle one time for a grocery store and they had changed the lyrics and stuff. And they got me to come in and sing it. And I mean, he sings all time rock and roll and F sharp in the original version. And it's really high. It's 11 in the morning. And then he goes, well, that's really good. Can you put some more Bob on it?
Speaker: no which is the rasp. So you're singing a very high note, but they want it raspy. So that's why I asked you about your voice and I i didn't know it can be taxing, ah but if you're healthy, and you recover and you know your voice, yeah you can sing well into your advanced years. So good for you for that. We sing, we do, Terri does, we generally close with, because she was such a great singer, simply the best right as a thank you to the audience. It's in E, but it it modulates up to F sharp. yeah But it's funny because Terri does all time rock and roll in F sharp.
Speaker: which is pretty much everything. thing yeah So we have this ongoing thing with our keyboard player. We were both born on the same day. He's a year older. So we exchanged silly birthday presents. yeah and And a few years ago, I went to Long and McQuaids, and I said, do you have any broken pianos? And they said, yes. We have one in the back. I said they said, why? I said, I'd like an F sharp. So I drilled a hole through it, put it on a little chain, and gave it to him as ah you know a neck thing. And he opened it, and he goes, my god, it's an F sharp. Because it's the standard. He looks at me, if he plays with Terry and I as a trio sometimes, and he goes, he'll yell across. i I'll tell him the song, and he goes, what's the key? I go, I just look at him, and he goes, F sharp. so Just not the Seattle Players' favorite key, obviously. yeah well Come on, it's all black keys. You don't have to worry about the other ones. Exactly. There you go.
Speaker: Well, so then that speaks to the new album. You've got One Time for Old Times, which you did in 2023 last year, right? Yes. And it's funny because you re -recorded those. Now, I understand you you couldn't get the master tapes back. Is that right? ah Well, we could have for $100 ,000. Okay. Yeah, that'll leave a scar. Yeah. And you know it's really difficult these days to make money off of of streaming. um If you can get people to cover them or put them in movies is another thing. But you know we just what after COVID, ah we just said, you know what?
Speaker: This is way too much fun. Let's get the guys and see if everybody wants to do it do this. And um Dale was in right off the bat. Jim was in. We had to find a new drummer, so a fellow named Peter Griffin, who was wrote that in Burlington way. And he um he went to high school, I think, with Dale and played in his first band with Jim in 1971, which was the year Terry and I started. So the three, like Jim, Dale, and Peter have known each other forever. And the first rehearsal, it was like ahd we'd known them all our lives. Right, no bicycle, eh? Yeah. and And so, you know, we good for you we recorded it in bits and pieces. Some of it was we had drums set up in our living room one day.
Speaker: yeah And then we found out that our neighbor neighbor wasn't deaf um because he told us he couldn't believe there was a parade a band march or marching or living in her house. But um we just had a lot of fun doing it. And there is a couple tracks on there that are like, is there any other way? is killer wanting you. I mean, we've always liked doing ballads. Yeah. that's Nice. Well, it's, and yeah, when I read that, I thought it was kind of funny because the record companies, they, they hold your master tapes. I know Jerry Doucette, who I knew reasonably well said that he couldn't get his momma, let him play tapes. And my buddies in stone bolt, they recorded in, in, uh, for Capitol records and they couldn't get them. So actually Ray Roper did the exact same thing. He rerecorded the album himself.
Speaker: Yeah. so the and you know It's unfortunate. If we were in the States after 25 years, they have to give you the master tapes back. Oh, I do not know that. What happened is we wanted to release we we kept getting requests from Europe, to from dance clubs, wanted to put Gunfighter on on a ah ah compilation disc, their version of it, and they wanted our permission. And we went on a search to find out who owned the tapes because RCA is no more. and turned out Sony owns it. okay And um so we were going to get it remastered. We actually had gone in and had the whole album. We had three pristine copies of that album yeah and we took it into Joe Cavallo's Mastering Facilities Revolution Studios in Toronto and had him recut the album, remaster it from the original vinyl.
Speaker: well And he took off every hiss pop and everything. It sounds fabulous. yeah um Cost a bit. but And then we found out that Sony owned everything and they had the masters and they would sell them to us if we... Yeah. So did they have to grant permission for the compilation album? Well, what we did is we turned the... Honestly, we had requests from England, Scotland, Denmark, ah Belgium, ah Ibiza, the island of Ibiza, Spain, Germany. So all these countries wanted to release the song. So we connected them with Sony. We just gave them their number and said, and then Sony released the album after that and put it up on on on all the digital platforms, but only that one album. And they they weren't interested in the other two. So we just said, you know what, let's just, we still get
Speaker: ah people kind contacting us through the website saying, yeah I remember when Burton Cummings jumped up on stage and sang with you guys in Saskatoon. Oh, nice. But I mean, you have no you're dealing with a corporation, you really have no not recourse at all, I guess, with that. No. and we we So we just we just said, well, we'll just rerecord them. and uh it was fun doing it we made some changes to a couple of the songs but i know you changed the key in old time you went from b flat to g yes yeah yes that was at the request of the singer yes well that that's right that's perfectly fine but i at the production sounds like i would say more modern production when i listened to both i wanted to ab them to hear what they sounded like yeah well i uh i'll give
Speaker: I recorded the band, yeah like recorded the drums, everything guitars. I just plugged them into the computer. I use digital performer. okay um I recorded them using the amplifiers I found. I do have some old amplifiers that I could use, but I found that I like the sound I got there. ah Terry recorded all the vocals here in the room with the microphone we're speaking into right now. yeah nice um And then our son mixed the whole thing. nice great And he he's into a lot of hip -hop stuff and he's done several hip -hop albums for people.
Speaker: But he um he's now working for a law firm, and he's doing really well. And he we he did the final mixes on everything. We had them professionally mastered at Carvalho. Well, great. And so people can get those. Well, you've got your website, jerrycroffordban .com. Yeah, and they're all available on Apple Music and Spotify and nice everything. Everybody just borrows music nowadays, and we understand that. yeah But um you know what? It's fun creating it. And um you know in the back of your mind, you say, well, there's always that chance. yeah it'll It'll land in a movie or something, or somebody will pick it up. and And you never know. So you know what? um As long as we are able, we will.
Speaker: yeah So let me ask you, you know, you took the ride, as I said earlier, and and you know, did a lot of great things. Did you reach the level of a success that you had wanted or hoped for?
Speaker: um Well, you know, you always want to crack the million dollar barrier. And it I think it was was six years we took before we I said, oh, well, now we've made a million dollars. We spent a little more than that. Yeah. But you know what? We It's how do you engage success? We've got two wonderful children um who have grown up into into being great adults. um We don't owe any money. yeah We own our own house. We live in a great community.
Speaker: I mean, the dream was always, you know, have the your private jet and 50 people on crew and all of that. And now thinking about that, I'm thinking, I don't want that now. But the funny thing is, is when you're talking to people and somebody says something, ah the other day we were at at an event with some friends and somebody was talking about, I dream of Jeannie. And I went, oh, I met Barbara Eden. but well yeah And they go, you met Barbara Eden? I said, yeah. Terry was doing the Alan Thicke show. Oh, nice. Right. Yeah. For Alan Hamill show at the time, whatever it was. And you know, McLean Stevenson was on. We met him and you know from MASH and all these people. And and then they're just people. Yeah. Well, you know. That's right. and But when you go back and you think about this and somebody says something, I go, oh, I've met that person. Yeah.
Speaker: Well, I guess the reason I asked that question is, but you know, you talked about the US market. Lots of guys wanted to go down there and sort of crack that market. and And it really takes money. Like to speaking to your earlier point about the record company freezing the the advertising. I mean, I talked to Ian Thomas and he said the same thing about to painted ladies and stuff. If you don't pay the money, you got to have a big American record company splashing the cash around to get somewhere. Yeah. Contrary to what some people think. You just write a great song and you become a star. That's just not the reality. Yeah. So did you ever think about moving to the States or trying to crack that market? Well, it was always the back of our mind, you know, like, you know, got to remain crime free or you can't get across the border. yeah Yeah. Yeah. You know, so. Well, there was at one point there was a possibility that we would have gone to California, but. Yeah. and It was an offer to rerecord the Virgin Heart album with Spencer Proffer, the guy who did Quiet Riot.
Speaker: But the record record company said no. Yeah. And it was also we also at that point, too, were very loyal to the boys in the band. And it was like. you know, they kind of wanted to break it up and it was like, no, we kind of want to be a band. Yeah. You know, so fair the beach the Beach Boys, the last tour we did with them in eighty seven halfway through the tour, they said, would you guys like to do the American side with us down the US East Coast, the New Jersey State Fair, someplace in Boston, yeah somewhere in New York? And we went, yes. And, you know, I think we were offered
Speaker: $1 ,000 a night as an opening act may to do that, which at the time was yeah you know it's yeah passable, respect but you know there was there was eight of us on the road. yeah And by the time we looked into what work visas were going to cost, yeah it would have cost us about $5 ,000 to do the tour. So you do the tour and come back in debt. Yeah. And and then the the the the record wasn't released down there. Right. Yeah. There you go. So what's what's the point? It was disappointing, but yeah it was it was nice that they thought ah like the Beach Boys were confident in what we were doing yeah and wanted to bring us along. so So what was the business stuff like overall? Did you ever get mistreated or taken advantage of? I remember when we went down to Nashville.
Speaker: Yeah. Oh, and first time. we Yeah, it was an album deal. This was back in the 1977. We don't have to name names. No, we won't name names. But but we went down and and recorded, I think, eight or nine songs towards an album. It was supposed to be an album that never came out. A single was released. that I remember when we went down and we were given an address at a place where we could stay. It was a bloody empty office building. We're all sleeping under desks. and cheese Oh, God. But it you know it was like it wasn't what we were expecting. Well, the reason I ask is because it's a very exploitive sort of business, the nature of that business, especially back then with the the fat cats, with the lots of record company money, but the the bands were on the bottom of the food chain, right?
Speaker: music yeah You know what? As soon as we signed our album deal and went in the studio, we we received a salary through the whole process. yeah so And then we went back. But we were always a working band. Everybody was on a salary. um We learned that from the way the Guess Who operated. They were all making a ah weekly wage. okay So that's how we set ourselves up as. and But it meant that we had to work every week because we had people to employ. So you often did dates you didn't want to do. yeah um But you know looking back, there were some great dates. We have this running commentary when we're driving down the road. Whenever we see a house that looks like it's about to fall down in the field, we go, band house. Exactly.
Speaker: but and yeah But overall, I mean, we've met great musicians, great people in the Maritimes out West um that are absolutely sweethearts. Yeah. And we're so helpful and so supportive that, um boy, you know, it's it's it's tough to say not everything was perfect. Yeah. um You know, we made mistakes. Yeah, fair enough. But you know what? at the at the end of the day. No one died. yeah well i was going to The point I was thinking was bands thrive on momentum. So you do some crappy dates, not every date is a home run, but you do them because it keeps the momentum going. and you can't As soon as's that momentum soon as you take your foot off the gas, you lose momentum and then
Speaker: It's all downhill from there. So I've always been that advocate of, I don't apologize for any gig that I do. There's a gig out there somewhere. We're going to get in the vehicle. We're going to drive there. We're going to do it. That's it. Absolutely. Yep. And listen, we're we're we're doing one tomorrow. There you go. It is a duo. yeah you know Free barbecue for seniors. And it's there's over 300 people. They were expecting 70. There's going to be 300 plus people there tomorrow. Oh, that's great. We play from 11 .15 in the morning until 12 .50. You still have my afternoon nap. Perfect. Exactly. There you go.
Speaker: Well, but it's a lot of fun. Well, and of course we're we're we're the nostalgic people, I guess now, because it, you know, myself too, being at the age I'm at, growing up in the sixties and seventies, it's sort of nostalgic. But the music business now, like a lot of what we did or you did, especially as a function of the time within you did it, the sixties and seventies. I mean, what do you think about the music scene now? It's a completely different world.
Speaker: It's a struggle. our Our son was, when he was in college, he was doing he was working with some other guys from college and they were all doing rap stuff and hip hop and they loved it. and you know They would go and play somewhere and they had to pay to, you know, pay a hundred bucks to rent the stage. yeah And then they had to sell so many tickets, right which they didn't get, but you know, and had to give to the, so that they could sell their CDs. Wow. There you go. And that' and that's unheard of in our day and age, you know, we we were paid well yeah for, like we got to the point where we were paid well. We were paid really well when we announced we weren't going to tour anymore and everybody suddenly went, Oh, wait a minute.
Speaker: But also you've done thousands of gigs like myself. I've done thousands and thousands of gigs in my life. Like that's important. Absolutely. And um there's just there's something about being on stage that many times that nothing phases you. yeah People will still say this. Don't you get nervous when you sing? We go. No, unless something goes wrong. Yeah, but but you know you walk on stage and there's a comfort zone as soon as we walk on stage I looked at the guys of the band we did our 50th anniversary concert and um We did some dates and a couple years ago. I was 2001 or two. No, 2000
Speaker: ah Don't ask me 2001 bad at math and and um anyway, it was just when we walked on stage and We opened with the same three songs from the very first date. We played we played the very first time we played together was I think August 13th 1971 at the center of the continent festival and heading Lee Manitoba, which is just west of Winnipeg Wow And the first three songs we did were um White Rabbit, Bus Rider, and Walk Away. So ja Jefferson Airplane, um and guess Guess Who, and Joe Walsh. And so we we've what the band plays now, we do those same three songs to start off just to remind ourselves about where we came from.
Speaker: And I look at the guys and I'm thinking, you know, we we all think we're 18 again, as soon as that happens. That's what it feels like. After the truck's loaded, and we don't feel like we're 18. Yeah. Well, good for you. so So looking back on your career, is there anything you would do differently if you could do it again? Any decisions you made or managers or studios, producers, anything you'd do different?
Speaker: um Well, probably. Talking the producers into not passing on hit me with your best shot would have been a good idea. I did have Eddie on the podcast, had a good talk with him and he was very happy when Pat Benatar took it up because he had recorded it himself, right? Yes. Yes. And and I can remember Terry was doing a jingle with him. at some point in time. And I think it was a Budweiser commercial or something. But anyway, he was in in doing something with the production side of it. And and we were talking about that. And I said, we're really ah disappointed that you know we didn't have a chance to record that because it was offered to us. He goes, I'm not. Yeah, yeah he's happy. Oh, yeah. but you know which is Which is great. But we did we did do a version on the Lifelines album
Speaker: of Bourbon Street, his song Bourbon Street, which Terry just sang the hell out of. No, great. No, you got that rich female voice and you know some of the female singers can be a little bit high and and not have that sort of smoothed off tone. A lot of the black female singers have that silky, beautiful chest tone and you've got that too, which is really nice. I remember the first time we went in, we were in Windsor doing promos on the first album and we got to meet Rosalie Trombley and who's you know famous for breaking artists out of Windsor. And anyway, we you know we went to the radio station, they brought us in and brought and she looked at Terry and she goes,
Speaker: You're Terry Crawford? Yeah. She goes, I thought you were black. There you go. And she goes, no. yeah But um you know it's it's it's a it was a great time to be in music yeah yeah because you know the doors opened up and we were able to earn a living. doing what we love. i remember My mother told me when I was little, I said, what is work? And she says, well, I'll tell you this. If you find something you love to do and figure out a way to get paid for it, you'll never work a day in your life.
Speaker: Yeah, it's it it is a labor of love, and and I think most of the people that I knew that tried to make a a living in music, you know i mean they went through the 80s phase of of the Coke and strippers kind of thing, but you know once that all sort of fell away, they fell away as well, but very few of us were able to stay in the business, but it's because of the love of the music and not really wanting to do anything else. Yeah. Well, staying and staying healthy. Staying healthy. i I look at being an entertainer like being an athlete myself. i Absolutely. You're so right. yeah it's It's very much the same. Yeah, I do too. It's like, you know, when we're rehearsing for, if we got to play a one hour set, then we should be able to do two hours nonstop yeah and then the one hour will just be nothing. Yeah, yeah because we've we've run into musicians over the years when
Speaker: we We spent actually six months backing up James Leroy remember him James Leroy and denim Yeah, and we got asked to be his support bands because he didn't have a band. So we went out in the road with him And the other half is our manager asked him to groom the band. So we would be on stage you know every night. We'd do a set to open. He'd come out and do a set. We'd do a set, and then we'd do a closing set with him. So it was four 45 -minute sets a night. It was a lot of work. no and But he worked us during rehearsals. We'd rehearse as soon as the club closed at 2 o 'clock in the morning. We'd be back in the club where we could, and we'd be rehearsing. yeah
Speaker: And you know our piano player, myself and Terry, were the three members that are still here that that went through that with James. And he drilled it into us. you know how do You get on stage. You don't tune your guitar on stage. You come up and you're ready to go. yeah You tune it in advance and it's sitting waiting for you. Everything you do is about professionalism. Our road manager, Brad Stone, Woody, is the same way. He said, I don't want to hear a sound coming off that stage. until you're ready to go. And we learned so much during that period and it was drilled into us and then we bring somebody in who hasn't gone through that and it's like, well, I thought that was good enough. And I said, no, it wasn't good enough. Springsteen, when he slides across the stage and all the all the lights follow him and know he lands at cleence Clarence Clemens knee feet in those videos, yeah they do that every night. yeah
Speaker: it's it's it's It's a show. It's a presentation. It's not ad lib. well though And we've always treated it that way. No, you make a great point because I i did a seminar one time on helping bands find more paying gigs and I said, You have to really, really care. It has to be in your heart. That might sound a bit campy to you, but if you're not in that mindset, you're competing against somebody who is. yeah Keep that in mind. That's right. yeah yeah and Absolutely. you know so That's good. and it It sounds like you guys are in a happy place in life and looking back, I guess you get nostalgic sometimes and looking back at the timelines and all the experiences. I kind of forget some of the cool things we did. It's like, holy mackerel.
Speaker: Yeah. You know, like you kind of, you know, had conversations with, you know, guys like the Beach Boys backstage. It's like, geez. And then when you you know you hear one of them in the past, you go, geez, we knew that guy. This is this is a truly Canadian story. We were playing with the Beach Boys in 87. And we called it our hockey arena tour because everybody that we, every arena we played, the playoffs were going on. So we finished in Edmonton and security knocks on the door and we finished our set. He said, there's some guys here who bought albums and was wondering if they could get them autographed. And we said, oh sure, let them in. Gretzky, Curry, Anderson, and I think coffee. Wow. Came in and he said, could we get our records autographed? Nice.
Speaker: and we went It's Gretzky. And then, you know, we met Larry Robinson and Matt's Nasland in Montreal, were cool some of the Jets in Winnipeg. yeah So, you know, but I'll tell you another lesson that I learned when I was young. When Randy Backman left the Guess guess Who, um I went to Cam's music store in Winnipeg, where they made Garnet amplifiers, and it was a go -to music store. And I was in there, and the guy along the store, he says, the Guess Who are rehearsing their new band next door. You can go listen to them. You can't get in, but you could listen.
Speaker: And I listened them to them doing the intro for Hand Me Down World nice for 45 minutes, wow the first 16 bars. That's when Kurt Winter joined the band, right? Because he brought those songs in. Was it Greg Luskew again? Yeah, exactly. And and I listened for 45 minutes, hoping they would come out. yeah and because I was 16 or 17 at the time and that's all they did. wow And I asked Burton about it years later and I said, you know, i this is an experience I had. And I said, I just listened to you guys do it. And I went,
Speaker: This is amazing how how much work they're putting into just that one part. Yeah. And Burton said, well, that's the difference between a good band and a great band. Yeah. And it's the detail that you put into it before you were on stage, which is is a way to rehearse. Right. Yeah. We had a practice yeah way to practice. We do that today. We've got a rehearsal coming up tonight. We've got a new ah all acoustic band we're doing. Nice. We're just doing great acoustic songs from over the years for fun. Yeah. And we do that. We'll spend and an hour tonight on one song. Yeah, good for you. We breathe at the same time. yeah And so, you know what, those things we've learned over the years. Yeah. Well, and then then just to wrap up, ah we've gone a little bit over time, but I appreciate such an interesting conversation. um You know, what you said before, what what do how do you measure success? You know, if you're happy and comfortable in your own skin, you've had some some good success, you've had some good experiences, you're healthy, you're happy. I mean, that that's got to be that's got to be a win.
Speaker: It is. you know like when we like but When we would do our our kid stuff and children would show up like four -year -olds with their 24 -year -old mother and the 24 -year -old's mother. yeah right and the grandmother would say, I remember you when. and And it's just like, holy mackerel, you don't realize the impact you've had on ah several generations. Oh, that's good. And you're still moving forward. You still got things to do. You got shows coming up, like you said, and you're still recording and stuff. That's such an inspiration. Yeah, yeah it's fun. It's fun. You know, our hope would be to get the band. We're not getting rich, but we're having fun. But you know, get the band back. We'll finish the guys who still got our keyboard players got a couple of songs left to put his parts on. And then we'll do work with the drummer and the bass player.
Speaker: Yeah, that then for the next one. And it's all cover songs, yeah which we've picked all the songs. There's some real strong stuff on it. And then we've got the next project will be we've got songs that we collected over the years that were submitted to us that we think are great songs that we never recorded. um songs from Christopher Ward and tyson Dave Tyson and still another um Stan Meisner song. yeah We've got a song that we did with our son that he wrote that is as remarkable. So you know what? We're looking forward to doing these songs and we'll get around to it. Good for you. Lots of real inspiration.
Speaker: Many thanks to my guests, Terry Crawford and Rick Johnson for being part of the Line of Notes podcast and sharing some insights from their many musical adventures and accomplishments. More information is available at terrycrawfordband .com. That's terrywithawhy, terrycrawfordband .com. Check it out and their music's available on all the streaming platforms as well. We hope you enjoyed the podcast and invite you to subscribe to it and share it on social media so others can enjoy it as well. and we also invite you to listen to Dusty Disc Radio Tuesdays and Thursdays to hear music from the Canadian artists you're hearing on this show. So until next time, I'm Dan.
