Transcript
Speaker: Hi, it's Dan here for Dusty Discs Radio. This is the broadcast line of notes revealing chats with Canada's retro music makers. Today, I'm very honored to have as my special guest, Les Stroud, filmmaker, musician, composer, singer, songwriter, author, and world famous adventurer and survival expert, perhaps best known as the creator, writer, producer, director, cameraman, and host of the television series, Survivor Man. I look forward to hearing about his journey and he's done much more than that too. So thanks for joining me today, Les. How are you?
Speaker: Oh, I'm good. And it's my pleasure to be here. Good. Well, you survived as the survivor, man. I appreciate that. It's good to have you. Yeah. Well, life survival is a different thing altogether, but I'm still here. I'm still going. Well, good. So you were born in Etobicoke in 1961. Well, I was born in Guelph in 1960. So I'm a year older than you, but two we're from the same area and, uh, interesting times back then and in Southern Ontario.
Speaker: Well, very much so. I do believe that we we we certainly, um I feel often when it comes to our era of existence, it's like we dodged a bullet. You know, we we we we we're were able to be on this planet.
Speaker: when you know people like the Beatles and David Bowie and Led Zeppelin you know and Rush were making music. so it's a pretty And so many more and so much more. But yeah, I always feel like, man, our generation just dodged all the bullets and slipped in between the cracks and had one of the greatest times ever.
Speaker: Well, I think that's right. I mean, in your I was going to say upfront, you're an interesting, accomplished and multifaceted guy. But, you know, since it's a music show, I want to talk about music first anyways, and we'll get into the other stuff after. But, you know, growing up at that time, you're totally right. It's the golden age of music, the 60s, 70s, into the 80s, vibrant music scene. And what was your first love musically?
Speaker: Oh, well, I guess the story that I love to tell is is that that first of all, it was it was it was my curiosity was piqued because of a music teacher in grade seven because she had us study ah the album Jesus Christ Superstar. And that really piqued my curiosity to move from a kid you know, liking the novelty songs of the day into heavier, more produced, more rock and roll. And then the very next year we had a different music teacher. And that year we studied Goodbye, Elbic Road. And when I heard Goodbye, Elbic Road, it was all over for me. There you go.
Speaker: So did you you take music lessons? I mean, you're an expert harp player. I noticed that and you play guitar well as well. I i must say, I'll i'll give you a compliment. A lot of guys that they're multifaceted aren't really sort of really seriously taken seriously as musicians, you know some actors that want to play music. And I can think of a couple examples, but but you're the real deal. you know like you You can actually play, you got a heart for music, you got the feel, and then you're you're quite an expert harp player and and your guitar playing is decent too. So did you take some lessons or did you just figure it out?
Speaker: Thank you. ah It was no yeah definitely self -taught along the way. um But there were times, and even again today, you know where I would say, okay, i'm going to I'm going to dig into this, I'm going to lean into this. Guitar I use as a writing instrument and im and piano as well, and I'm a singer. That's all fine and well for for writing, and and i can I can play some solos on stage, make a face, and it looks cool. But the only thing that I really leaned into musically, and you know am i as I got older, was the harmonica. Even to this day, I'm still taking lessons, still doing things, still trying to improve my harmonica chops. because
Speaker: It's kind of something very unique. I just got off the stage playing um ah three of the dates on Slash's new tour. you know And when when you say yes or you get that opportunity, you better show up with some chops or you're going to embarrass yourself. you know There you go. It's funny because I had a friend who was ah quite a good harp player and he said he hitchhiked across Canada and he would sit on the fence post and play his harp. And then I thought about you. I thought, well, when you're out doing your survivor stuff and that, did you take the harp with you and kind of Play a little bit no not at all i did not play music when i was in nature you see my life's always been on two tracks one of them is music and the other one is nature and so when i was in nature. I didn't interrupt my connection to nature by playing guitar or harmonica or anything like that.
Speaker: However, as of lately, I'm actually, after all these years, I'm going to challenge that and I'm going to attempt to do um some writing out in nature, start taking my guitar out there and say, okay, let's see where this goes. Let's see where the inspiration flows when I'm actually still out here and I have my guitar. Whereas, whereas all the way, all the times before I would I would wait till I got home, I'd let the experiences percolate and then I'd begin to write. you know Well, that's what I thought because i've I've watched lots of it, of course, and I never saw you. I thought you'd be out in the in the wilderness kind of playing your harp, but you were too preoccupied with other things, right? Like and trying to stay alive, for example.
Speaker: but So certainly when it comes to survivor man, yeah, absolutely. absolutely So then back to the the music influences. I mean, we talk about the golden age. I mean, look at all the influences we had. My uncle played in a band and I got to hear all the stuff that he did fifties and sixties stuff and the J in the Americans and stuff. And the one thing about our era that you sort of touched on is the different genres and influences like all from the jazz, the big band to the cat Stevens to Led Zeppelin all over the map, heavy, light folk, you name it. We had it all.
Speaker: Well, I think we really did. I think what was special about what we had was we all really, I mean, the most of us, I would say 80 % of anybody I knew when I was a teenager, we kind of lived and breathed by the music. you know when is When is that next album coming out? And oh, there's a new album coming out. And did you hear that last album? and Which my kids don't have.
Speaker: any of that. yeah So we we really hung off of the next release of our favorite artists. It was a big cultural thing for us and me being musically inclined, ah certainly more so for me, but even my friends who weren't musically inclined, you know, when ACDC released Back in Black, I mean, you know, it was it was epic for us or when Zeppelin released in Through the Outdoor. These things were were important moments for us. They're not anymore. They're not anymore for kids these days, but they were for us. And I just want to touch on the genre the the genre side of this. You mentioned ah about the the different genres. I was like any other teenager in the 70s. I was you know hooked on all the classic rock and all the stuff that was going on that way. However,
Speaker: For me, there were inroads to a few other places that my friends didn't go. One, for example, was my mother had a lot of um show albums at home. So I would watch Brigadoon, Orphinian's Rainbow, or Oklahoma, you know, and that yeah put me in that genre. And then another one was a good friend of mine, my best friend really, he had seven older brothers. So they were all kind of hippies and that through them,
Speaker: you know, sure, I'd be out listening to Styx and Supertramp and Zeppelin with the usual but buddies, but through my my best friend Tim, we would get into the deeper dive of folk artists such as Steve Goodman, John Prine, Bruce Coburn before he was a star. um You know, David Bromberg, you know, if I said those names to any other 17 -year -old in 1975, they didn't know who I was talking about, but my but buddy Tim did. So yeah, I loved that.
Speaker: my brain and my heart and my musical heart was was open to, okay, what else is there beyond um Crime of the Century and Zeppelin 4? What else is there? you know Right. Yeah. And the cool thing about that is that you bring all of those things to bear when you're expressing yourself musically, because it's all in your subconscious and they're all in there somewhere. Oh, I absolutely do. And for example, I have no shame about it either, because for example, you know my Mother Earth album, you know my producer hates when I call it this, but I i fondly call it progressive rock. Now, there was like a time when it was like, ooh, progressive rock. Ooh, yuck. Don't mention that. It's for geeks. It's for nerds. Well, you know what? I don't care. I always loved.
Speaker: but Yes, in Genesis and King Crimson and Pink Floyd, and then later it would be Rush and Radiohead, you know, and Tool. So i i I have no shame about it. I love progressive rock, and I think the thing I liked about progressive rock was that with with bands like Yes and That, a lot of these guys were actually either trained in jazz or classical. So they they put that into this big epic rock music, and that led me down the road of saying, oh, wait a minute.
Speaker: Emerson Lakeham, was it Emerson Lakeham Palmer? yeah I think, yeah, Pictures at an Exhibition, ah you know, and so then that made me go out and buy Leonard Bernstein directing Pictures at an Exhibition, the Mazorsky music, ah you know, ah with, I think, the New York Philharmonic. I never would have bought that just at my own accord, but because of Progressive Rock, I thought, ooh, I'm going to go listen to the the original version of that, you know. I loved it. I loved all the genres.
Speaker: Well, so it sounds like you have a high musical IQ. And the interesting thing is a lot of the older people would would sort of poo -poo the rock music and stuff. And then you see things like the Symphony Orchestra doing Beatles songs and doing collaborations with what might have been considered just a down and dirty rock and roll band. But you could never say that about bands like Pink Floyd. I mean, these were sophisticated bands that were playing serious music.
Speaker: Yeah, and and so if you were into music, they were a great place to go. you know It was one thing to listen to you know Elton John's new hit. Everybody you know is listening to that new hit. you know Someone Saved My Life Tonight is released and it's the biggest thing.
Speaker: Okay, but it's another thing to know, to even know who King Crimson was, you know, and to say, oh man, I'm listening to the court of the Crimson King tonight. yeah That was a, you were in a different group, you know? Yeah. No, that's cool. And and of course, back then, getting to your earlier point about how how cool it was to live at that time, being in a band was a super cool thing too. So I, I always, from the time I was seven years old, started singing and playing guitar. And I just was always in a band. I always thought it was the coolest thing in the world. And I carried on with it and,
Speaker: ended up making a good living for many decades. But did you start out in bands? Did you ever join bands or or play live when you were younger? I did. I think, um yes, I did, is the short answer. Nothing, nothing too successful until, ah nothing, all that successful until I was about 23 and I finished musical. I'd gone to Fanshawe College and finished music there. And when I came back, that's when I took it a lot more seriously and I was in Toronto bands. So you're saying, I'd be saying those, that era would have been like 1983. I was about 23, 22 and, um
Speaker: ah Yeah, that's when I was in in bands like New Regime and and and the Diamond Dogs and bands like that. Right, so that's one of the questions I often ask my guests is you know how much of what you did was planned or happenstance or sort of an accident and it's interesting the answers that you get it sounds like yours was a bit of a combination because you obviously decided to go to music school and and sort of pursue it more.
Speaker: Yeah, so that's an interesting question, planned or happenstance. um I would love to say that I went after what I wanted and in many ways I did. The problem for me was that I had zero and i do and I'm not ah ah overplaying this or exaggerating. I had zero.
Speaker: mentorship and guidance. So I had to figure it all out on my own. I was, there was no encouragement to do this or do that or stick with it kid or anything like that. And and we know when you're a kid, when you're 19 or 18 and you were, it's easy to, you know, oh, I'm not good enough and oh, you know, those guys are better. and um Maybe I want, it's easy to kind of not have that motivation. I did develop my own internal motivation as I got into my twenties, but it You know, I consider myself quite a late bloomer, always a late bloomer when it comes to to everything I do, really. Yeah. Well, and it's interesting with you too, and I'm going to ask you about Survivor Man after, but I mean, Survivor Man is is a good metaphor for life. I'm sure you've brought the the psychological part of that up many times because that's really what we all face anyways.
Speaker: Yes, it wasn't my motivation to play off of or really dive deep into the metaphor that that I was creating with that series. i That came more from my love of nature. You have to understand, too, that when I was making Survivor Man, that was in a particular era where I was avoiding capital A, avoiding music. I quit music when I was around 25.
Speaker: got into outdoor adventure and eventually landed on, I should film myself doing these cool things. And the next thing you know, um you know I'm creating this series and and literally creating an entire genre of television. um yeah But the metaphor for life became evident as I went along. I realized this is more powerful than I thought it was. The concept of me out here surviving alone People are are latching onto this and they're adapting it to their own lives and their own circumstances and so then i as ah as a more mature man sought to honor that not to play off it not to use it as stick but just go with it you know. Well you know that's why i brought that up because some i had the opportunity to study counseling and one of the things the counseling professor said was when you become become attuned to people's issues you're gonna see some pain in this world.
Speaker: and and surviving and and and living a life that's meaningful is hard for some people. And you'll see that, and and you'll see the signs of that. And I think that's what we all sort of face, like the the idea that the the greatest battle we ever fight is the one inside our own head, that you if you can't win that battle, you lose all the other ones, the domino effect.
Speaker: h It's a strange thing, isn't it? and and And for me, you know, I believe, it's funny, I just heard something this morning about this, you know, and I realized, oh my gosh, that is what I was. I think about my circumstances with an incredibly dysfunctional family. And so the battles in my head were always thick and raging, just like they are in everybody else's head. Nothing special there. However, I did have an incredibly dysfunctional family.
Speaker: And what what happens, even with siblings, it's like one sibling succumbs, but another sibling, for whatever reason, and maybe I was born with it, has resilience. And it's this resilience that I had that to this day keeps me gets me up in the morning. It's resiliency. And but and so why does why why would that word even matter? that having that that matter because the world just keeps coming at you. And if you're not resilient, you succumb. You fall, you you fall prey to it. And for whatever reason, with nobody else's help, I had resiliency in my DNA. Which is, that speaks well of you and and and that gets to the to the larger point. It's not so much what you accomplish in life sometimes, but what you overcome in life that defines who you are.
Speaker: including overcoming yourself, which you've alluded to. yeah and and and over you know we We are our biggest mountain that we have to climb. It's not the outside world, ah but it's but it's it's a mixed bag. It's messy. It's very messy. And and now, you know what I love is is even now I'm writing songs that will address that, but I will use what I know, which is my connection to nature to address those challenges for people.
Speaker: Yeah, know that and that's great. And for me, music provided solace. It provided that place. there's There's something magical and special about music that always sort of fed my soul. I always say to people, well find what feeds your soul. you know If you want to find out where somebody's asking, what feeds your soul?
Speaker: They go, well, oh I don't know. Music feeds my soul. You know, I just, it always was a safe place for me. So yes that's why. But you know, you know, that, that, that it's not the same for everyone though. I found that. So I, I'm like you. Okay. So I like you. I, it feeds my soul. What does that even mean? If we just say, Oh, it feeds my soul. Well, what's that even mean? It means ah that I can cry because of a song. I can be uplifted because of a song, but I know other people that can't.
Speaker: And even in my own life, like I said, I have two tracks. One is nature, one is music. And it's not never the twain shall meet. It's just more a matter of they both feed my soul in different ways. One I think is very existential and more epic. And the other one is deep and personal. And that would be music for me. Yeah. So let me finish that that train of thought on the music. you You ended up working for Much Music. So you went to Fanshawe College and then you ended up working at Much Music. How did that come about?
Speaker: Oh, it was just a matter of, honestly, I was back in Toronto playing in bands. I was with a David Bowie cover band called the Diamond Dogs. And then I was with New Regime and we were getting a record deal with RCA and I like ah quit them just as we were signing the deal. Um, cause I knew they were just going to blow the advance right up their nose, which they did. Uh, and I just didn't want any part of that. and And I was looking, I thought, well, I need a job and I can either drive a garbage truck or I can be in the shipping and receiving loading boxes onto a, you know, or what's this new, this, there's this new industry. It's really interesting. It's called music videos. Oh, what's this going on here? You know, cause I, everything had just begun much music and MTV had just begun much music one year behind MTV. And, um, I contacted a,
Speaker: some ah video production company and, you know, just literally said, you know, like love a job. I thought saying I wanted to be production assistant, I thought that sounded kind of like up there, like I'd get a really good position and not realizing that PA means getting the coffee. But I'll tell you, when i when I started doing these music videos with, you know, for Rush and Corey Hart and, you know, strange advance and rational youth, I was so thrilled.
Speaker: to be paid money to go get coffee and croissants. Are you kidding me? Amen. Nice. That put me there. And then and then eventually, one day, we the story is we we we played ah um a baseball game against much music, ah champagne motion pictures, who I was working for. And then I had ah you know had having beer with ah Michael Hayden. And next thing I knew, I had a job producing much music. That's great. Yeah. How long did that last?
Speaker: How long were you there? Over over a year or so. um And then the the this is where life and fate kicks in. I was um working, producing much music, and um but it was now...
Speaker: you're getting into the the mid 80s. Now, notwithstanding, there was some amazing music in the mid 80s. And when I say that, I mean you, too. I mean Peter Gabriel, you know, I don't know, Midnight Oil. There was some great, great stuff. OK, however, the overriding genre of music was destroying me because I hated spandau ballet and spandau ballet and and depeche mode and Thompson twins and Cindy. Oh, are you kidding me? And of course, if you if you were a rock and roller, you know you were a dinosaur. and so And even when I played with a band, it's like, don't you dare bring out my your Gibson Les Paul. That's a rock and roll guitar. Ooh. And it was killing me.
Speaker: until Until at one point, somewhere around 1985, I just said, you know, I'm going to exit stage left. And and I did. i do Interesting. But you made some connections, right? Because I see like you you were connected with the Northern Pikes. You must have met them, I guess, back in the day and had some connection with them. So you made some friendships and connections that that served you later, I would assume.
Speaker: Nope, not at all. um not at much contacted nope I met the Northern Pikes because they were fans of Survivor Man. okay you know Just about everybody I've met and played with now and and and and the the name dropping list, which is fun. you know Alice Cooper, Johnny Lane, Jerry Slash, all these guys, I met them all because they were all fans of Survivor Man.
Speaker: many years later. We all were. I mean, you like but exactly, you know, just because of, like you said, it was a different genre, but it's also, you know, you got a lot of stones, man. I mean, for the stuff that you did, we would talk about going, okay. And I often ask my guests, you know, do you have any message in your music? And it's very clear that you do, right? You have an environmental message. So you are bridging those two things, even though it sounds like they were separate for a while, but you you are bringing in have brought those things together now.
Speaker: Yes, now, absolutely. I purposely kept them separate. And I don't know if that was a mistake or not, but um but I did. And now, i'm absolutely there is definitely a mind meld now of my my music, my creativity that way, and my passion for nature.
Speaker: And just, you know, just reaching back into, you know, why varying rock bands were so fans of Survivor Man. What they would tell me is, well, dude, he goes you know, we'd be we'd be on the tour bus and we'd put your show on and it just looks so different. And, you know, I'd get this from, I don't know, John Popper and the Blues Travelers and stuff, all these bands. And I realized, OK, all right, well, you know, all right, Alice Cooper is going to let me play in a charity concert because I'm Survivor Man. I'll take it. I'll take that back door any day. You know, let's go.
Speaker: You have a good musical sensibility because people who try to combine them sometimes don't come across that well. And like the old saying goes, if you have to ask what feel is, you don't have any. So you have a good musical sensibility and a good musical feel. So for you, combining them is legit. If if you're just trying to use it for, um because you're a, you know, if you're a third grade musician and you're trying to use it for a cause and stuff, it it can fall flat because you're trying to promote sort of ah music that's not up to a standard that it should be and you've you've come overcome that which i you know i it speaks well of you because you're the real deal musically which I think is important especially when you're trying to bring those two things together. Well thank you I think that you know and and I know what you're speaking to and you know the problem is and I've said this often and said I'm not going to write lyrics about loving a pine tree if it's going to be shtick if it's going to be cliche if it's going to be my my angle I can't do it that way but the reality is
Speaker: I can't not write about loving a pine tree because that's who I am. And I, you know, I, I unashamedly would say, Hey man, I'm lyrically, at least I'm happy to pick up where John Denver left off. You know, he's the only, a lot of artists will write one song about nature, Joni Mitchell's big yellow taxi. You know, a lot of artists will do one song.
Speaker: but But to do a lot of songs about connecting to nature, well, that is unique. that dis give That does give me something else. And I guess I just thought, why would I even avoid that? I still write my love songs. I still do that, um or my fun songs, or what have you. ah But um as I've got a new album produced by Colin Linden, and he said, Les, you've got the gravitas to to sing these lyrics, and whereas other people don't. And I realized,
Speaker: Okay, you know, you're not you're not wrong. So Mike Clink and I, when we work together on the bigger production stuff, ah you know it's the same thing. my mike Mike's much more interested in working with me when I'm going down that road, when I'm talking about saving you know um ah wildlife or something, or I'm singing about nature. and And you know what? I can unashamedly go there. And i and i'm glad I'm glad for that for me. you know so its like As I said, it ain't a shtick.
Speaker: Yeah, well, that's a thing. Like One Giant Farm, I mean, that that is a very, very moving video. And you're with the Sea Shepherd Society, you've got videos of of some pretty brutal stuff on there. But I mean, that that song has a message. and i I watched the, you got an acoustic version and of course the band version with with the big, you know, with all the video clips and some of the horrible stuff that goes on. It's quite nauseating to watch, but the message is really loud and clear.
Speaker: Well, and i and again, I occupy a unique position where i can I can honestly put something out like that and say, yeah, man, I've been there. you know I've been aboard the Sea Shepherd boats. i I've seen this slaughter. i've done you know I've been around the world and it's and and I'm not for it. I'm staunchly against it. And then I'm in a conversation with someone like Slash and he's looking at the video with me in the studio going, you realize this is the only reason I'm doing this. I want you to promise me you will release this footage because he has a big love for wildlife and nature. and and And so I have to honor, you know, if I get the the luck of being able to work with someone like my clink or a slash or whomever, I have to honor that by still being me. It can't be
Speaker: Hey, when I played last week with slash in the blue s sink, that was blues and just fun. So I can still kick it back and kick out the jam, so to speak, and have fun. But yes, I'm very honestly still, and that, you know, that's leading to a very, I don't know if you have this information with you, but that's leading to a very big concert coming up in January.
Speaker: called Earth Concert, which is that's the whole point of the ah of what we're going to be doing here. So yeah yeah, no, that's great. And so it must have been cool to work with Slash. You went down to L .A. and and got him to to play. He plays through the basically kind of noodles through the whole song, right? Just plays whatever he wants. Yeah, I think I think if ah if he said, hey, Slash, can you pretend to be Carlos Santana? That's kind of what he did. And I do mean that with the greatest compliment. Slash nailed it and he loved it ah like the song and he loved and he you know hated slash love the video and yeah and that's why so I'm release you know um releasing this video. Well let me let me tell people a little bit about it. It's called One Giant Farm from the Mother Earth album right which was 2019 but you
Speaker: that's been Has that been re -released or did you augment that album and re -release it? Fill me in on that. Yeah, we did we did ah some new mixing and new mastering and added some some some bonus tracks. and ah the big The point was I was also then mastering it and releasing it for and on vinyl, so it's a double vinyl package.
Speaker: And also, you know how the business works. When it was initially released online and on CD, ah you know, it just, it was a misfire. It was a misfire on all the the the people in management and agenting and promotions and all that. And so, as I will often do with everything in my life, and I encourage any artist listening to this, okay, fine, I'll pick up the ball and run with it myself. And that's what I'm doing, and I'm really enjoying this.
Speaker: Well, and it's working. and And like I said, the video, I do recommend people watch it. It's informative. You've got some some of the numbers that you put in there on the what's happening around the world and the desecration of certain areas and stuff. It's quite shocking, but something people need to be aware of. So I would encourage the listeners to listen to One Giant Farm and watch the video and and take it in. It's an excellent song, but it's also a ah strong message, I would say.
Speaker: Thank you. thank yeah And it's important it's important for me to maintain that, for me, authenticity in everything I do is is vital and there's an authenticity in that message.
Speaker: And I do think, if I'm being a little critical, I think that, you kind of alluded to this earlier too, sometimes causes and protesty type stuff, sometimes it falls flat because, you know, maybe the artists don't really mean it or maybe they got involved because their manager said it'd be a cool thing to get involved in or something like that. know And I just, I cannot allow what I do to to go down that road.
Speaker: Well, fair enough. and i I mean, a lot of people are passive listeners, so they just want feel -good music. I mean, songs songs like One Giant Farm is not a feel -good song, right? It's a nice song, but it's got a strong message. So it's not going to be the kind of song that but they're going to put on at a party, but that's not what it's for anyway.
Speaker: Right, it's a powerful song I think and I hope i hope its message is taken. you know So let me ask you about a few other things that I listened to. ah You did the song I'm a Canadian, great production and it's almost a Celtic feel in there. You got the fiddles and the harmonies and where did that do take place and how did that come about?
Speaker: Yeah, well, that's great because it's such a juxtaposition to one giant farm. And it's really me saying, you know what? I'm still a songwriter. and And though I might be driven to write about nature a lot, I'm also driven to write about anything, including love and so on. So I was driving up the highway. I was going up Highway 400, about to get onto Highway 11, heading north. and ah And a song came on. It was the top. And it was, it was um oh, I think it's Leonard Skinner or somebody like that. And it was, my my neck's always been red.
Speaker: Collars still white and and ah I'm still, you know, a blue collar worker. I guess you could just say, I'm red, rat, white and blue, you know, something like that. And it was, but the thing that killed me was it was number one on the top 10 Canadian countdown. And I thought that's just not right. And between Barry and Huntsville, I basically wrote all these lyrics and had it in my brain. And I actually took that song to the Northern Pikes.
Speaker: great Canadian band. And I got this thing, and and Brian Potvin's got a great sensibility for songs, and he doesn't like things that are trite to cheesy. And I said, look, at man, it's just straight faced. I am Canadian. I love being Canadian. And I just wanted to write a song celebrating Canada. So we we we put it together with the band. And and then I thought, OK, like this year, and let's put it out on on Canada Day, let's do it. Yeah, I like it. It's good. But again, it's a very Canadian and and it's ah again, what I said earlier about those musical sensibilities, you just sort of reach into the pot there and pull some out and go, okay, well, let's, you know, let's put some fiddle in there. Let's put so it' so like, it's almost a Celtic feel. Like I said, it's, ah it's cool. like Yeah. Well, that was courtesy of of a musician named Peter Cliche at North Bay, Ontario. He was a multi -talented, multi -instrumentalist and he's been playing with me for 26 years.
Speaker: So I had my my ah had my GCs and D chords all set, but then when Peter comes in and he goes, did didy did it italy italy like okay, well, you know what? It's got that East Coasty kind of feel. Let's do it. you've got I think sometimes you've got to do things like this at the very least to get them out of your system. And maybe it'll go nowhere and that's fine. but if but You can't avoid it and put too much importance on your songwriting. Like, oh no, this isn't, I'm writing this song, but it's feeling like it's going to be cheesy. Oh, what do I do? I better stop. I better go write something more heavy. And now you can't. I think you got to finish. I got a new song coming out on the, on the call and Linda now a produced album called look at love. And all I did was kind of channel John Prine. I said, you know what? It's coming out today. I better get it out. Here we go.
Speaker: There you go. And that's where your musical IQ comes in too, right? So um I have to ask you about the Bittern Lake. It's called Bittern Lake, the full album. That was from 2018. Yeah. twenty eighteen yeah so So what happened there was I'd produced Mother Earth. ah it had its sort of We were trying to do a release, and as I said, it was kind of faulty. And Mike and I were just saying, and know Let's can produce something else together and I said, you know, I've never really done an album with a lot of covers would you be ah interested in that and we'll pick environmental covers that we could do and um you know starting with I Figured out a way to do big yellow taxi that nobody else had done it this way before because it's a great environmental song that that's how
Speaker: recording Bitter and Lake came out with Mike Clink. Okay well I listened to the whole album and I and i actually sometimes if i if I like the album I'll listen to each song and and make some notes and and Big Yellow Taxi sounds great. You do a lot of drop D in there like I can hear the low D note ringing. You got the harp intro and the bluesy slide guitar. It's a super cool version.
Speaker: Well, Joni's heard it, and she liked it. And ah and rolling stone Rolling Stone magazine said it's the best cover of Big Yellow Taxi ever. So that was pretty sweet. you know um yeah It was a matter of you know if um if you're going to do a cover, and you know this. I mean, you can do a cover just like. So I think it was the Googoo Dolls did a cover of it, or or Counting Crows or somebody did a cover of Big Yellow Taxi. But they just did it like Joni. They had the jangly guitar, the same everything. I thought, no, you know we need to remember something here. These lyrics are actually dark.
Speaker: Yeah, so why don't I you know, and then one day I was sitting around playing my national steel and there it was You know paid paradise put up a park, but you know what? I'm gonna do this traditional Delta blues and that'll keep the darkness in there Yeah, and that's and again that the album kind of does wander through the genres. He do if a tree falls the the Bruce Coburn song Yes, yes and talking and the singing talking thing, which is cool.
Speaker: Well, and I've been a Bruce Coburn fan since before. He was you know super well known. And Bruce and I now, we've written together, we work together. He's on my new album, playing a solo, and I perform with him. so that's And all of that is to say, that's a childhood dream come true, because I was 14 when I was going to see him at Convocation Hall.
Speaker: So, ah and if a tree falls, again, an amazing environmental song. And I wanted to get my version of it. I can't do it the way Bruce did it. He did it in very mid 80s production too, so I didn't want to do it. Well, the thing is too, I guess you you're sort of thinking, okay, you don't want to be preachy, you don't want to be angry, but you want to be serious. I mean, you got to kind of thread the needle there a little bit, right? Well, that therein lies the problem. You're you're very correct. does do Do I become preachy?
Speaker: And I think because of my authenticity and for my emotions in all of this, sort of no. For one thing, I don't like preachy and so I don't want to see it in me either. So i will that's, you with it you know what? That's where the songs come in nicely because it's like, well, here's a song saying what I would love to say to your face, but I'm not going to say it to your face. I'm going to write this song and you can listen to the song and do it as you do with it as you please, you know. Yeah.
Speaker: And then I guess, you know, obviously when you listen to albums, you have the ones that jump out at you. And I always put stars besides the one that jump out at me. But Snowshoes and Solitude, I put three stars beside that. The the Drop D, the the very cool vibe and a very cool tune. And I think of all of them, that's the one that that jumped out at me the most.
Speaker: Well, that's very interesting because it's it's a the very old song. I wrote that song in 1990, ah like like six or so seven, eight, somewhere in there. And then um and I recorded it on my debut CD.
Speaker: And I did it because I did a film called Snow Shoes and Solitude, about a year living in the woods with my dad. And then when I was with Mike, mike so Mike said, he goes, I really like your song Snow Shoes and solid can Solitude. Can we recut it with this amazing band? I said, oh, hell yeah, let's do it. you know and so There we have it. i You know what I like about that is is that that again is me very unashamedly saying, you know what?
Speaker: This is just me in the wilderness. And and something else about, when I wrote, and I've got a song coming out on the new album called Take a Hike, something else about me writing about nature is this. If I write about taking a hike or snowshoes in solitude, I will use phrasings that you kind of have to be someone who goes in nature to get. You'll be, you'll be i think I think you'll be grateful. And I've heard this, like Catherine Wheatley was telling me about ah Take a Hike, and she goes, when you say,
Speaker: ah fall in love while walking on snow. She goes, my heart just fell. I just i know exactly what you mean. It means snowshoeing in the forest with my loved one. you know And in snowshoes and solitude, you know or um northern northern wilds, when I say they rode upon wood and rawhide along the frozen highways, the creeks and forest trails, I'm talking about snowshoeing. And you won't know that unless you sort of pick up on wood and rawhide. And I love doing that because I'm such a nature freak, I can put in these these little asides. And I mean all of it. I mean every word of it, you know? Yeah. Well, that's interesting because I took a poetry class one time and I've often ah said what what the poetry instructor always said was, show me, don't tell me. Give me an image in my mind. Don't tell me what you're doing. Show me what you're doing. And who's brilliant at that? Bruce Coburn. Of course. you know mean i'm a so I'm a student of Bruce Coburn and his words and and his poetry
Speaker: Yeah, the evocative nature of his imagery is is still second to none. Yeah, and a that's great. and then And then on there, also, you've got, again, you go through some genres. You get the Legend of Jeremiah Johnson, which is sort of a historical folk tune with the fiddle and the reflective. And then you got Any Minute Now is a bit heavier with the cool guitar and the wah -wah solo. So you're not you're not restricted, I guess, is is the way I would say it. You just kind of go with what you feel.
Speaker: Yeah, I've never been that restricted, though I do understand and recognize the value of staying in a lane for a moment. So, you know, you you know you put out a folk album and then there's like a heavy metal song in the middle of it. No, don't do that. um so So I am... more conscious about that these days. I think we just had such a great band in the studio that I said, hey, I got this song called Any Minute Now. And you know and we so we included it. We already had a lot of good rock songs on the album with um the jjj ah JJ Kale cover, Death in the Wilderness, or Ben Harper cover, excuse me, Mr. So that gave me the license to say, ah well, we've got some rock songs on here, so we can include my own rock song, Any Minute. yeah you know
Speaker: No, that's cool. and you got to And you got your harp in there on Excuse Me, Mr. Do the harp. Oh, oh and i and I loved blowing harp on that track, man. i that that You know, I have yet to do, and it's actually coming up, I will eventually do this, but I've yet to do an album where I sort of, with a lot of bravado, go, hey, you know what? I'm a harp player, let me show you. And do an album where it's where it's harp up front. So there's always just one or two songs on each album. um But Excuse Me, Mr. was me going, let me show you what I could do.
Speaker: but I had so much fun with that. We literally, I'll just tell the side story for all your musicians. and I literally put the amplifier outside on the deck so I could crank it as loud as I could get it to go. And this is like cottage country. So I don't know what my neighbors thought, but it all they would be able to hear would be my harmonica, nothing else, you know? yeah And we had the microphone microphone out there just so I could really crank it without getting feedback.
Speaker: Oh, cool. Well, yeah, because a lot of times, like like I play with Johnny Forever quite often, who was on Colin James, Five Long Years and stuff. And you know, that the producer will say, well, just play whatever comes through your musical sensibility. Just play through the song and just give it. And then we'll pick what we like. And that that really works. I mean, that's effective because then you just get to be free. It's like running across the universe, playing your harp and whatever you think is good, grab it and we'll use it. so Well, you know, and just on that note, you know, and having just come off the tour with Slash, you know, the harmonica is very misunderstood. Very, very misunderstood. And um that, like, excuse me, Mr. was an opportunity for me to say, let me show you the harp in a call and answer ah scenario, whether I've got a slide guitar, a guy on ah on a Telecaster, or sorry, Stratocaster, and then me on harp, and we're going to call and answer each other. Let me show you what's possible here. You know, I had a lot of fun with that.
Speaker: Yeah, and then of course you just toured with slash how many live shows do you do a year you got? to Well, it's it's hit and miss because I'm still cherry pick some filmmaking I would what I can say is in the future. Hopefully a lot more, you know, I would be happy to You know, I think given my life and private life and everything 50 shows 60 shows a year would be a lot of fun. Okay Okay. Cause I looked on your website, I didn't see any listed there right now, other than the one you mentioned, right? did that I don't even think that's it's listed on there, but that's so it's not yet. No, I joined, I do the cameos jumping up with someone like slash, but otherwise everything is focused on the earth concert happening in Vegas in January. Okay.
Speaker: And then, you yeah, you mentioned earlier, you have a big long list of people. I mean, Journey and Johnny Lang and Dave Mason and Steve Stevens, Alice Cooper and all that. So, yeah I mean, that's gotta be fun for you, from ah for a kid from Etobicoke to be on stage with these guys and looking around going, this is pretty cool. Oh, it's beyond that. I'll tell you, I don't miss the moment. I know how lucky I am. I'll i'll look out at 12 ,000 people at a Journey show and for a moment I'll go,
Speaker: Holy crap, this is awesome. you know because At that point, I'm just a 16 -year -old boy again you know looking up at sticks wishing I was Tommy Shaw. and then and then and Then I'm on stage playing with Tommy Shaw and he's leaning up against my back and we're soloing. and so yeah but there's two there's There's two angles to this. One is I don't miss the moment and I never will because I know how lucky it is. and then the other thing is, and then i I go, okay, now Stroud, suck it up, get out there and prove yourself worthy of being here. And just kill it, go kill it. that's right You know, it's like, don't be timid, don't be shy. You're gonna go play with Slash and Eric Gales and these guys, okay, you know what?
Speaker: prove that you show them that you deserve to be on this stage for the next four and a half minutes. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. It's not a sympathy slot. It's not a, Oh, we got this guy. He's going to do his thing for his causes and stuff. It can't be that it's got to be the real deal. Right. Right. Otherwise the musicians won't respect you, you know, and that's why I work with, uh, with Mike clink. You know, Mike said it was music first. If I didn't like less as music, I wouldn't have worked with him and yeah you know, he did and does. And, and yeah,
Speaker: In the end, regardless of my TV celebrity and all of that, is the music there or isn't it? That's right. Yeah. And and for him to say that was actually doing you a favor because he's not patronizing you.
Speaker: Right. Absolutely. And I think you started off this interview, you know, and and you know rightfully so. I think there is a small grouping of us that can be taken seriously. um And so I you know eat like you got to give it up for Kevin Bacon. He just doesn't stop him and the Bacon brothers keep playing. And then there's ah Gary Sinise. Gary Sinise makes no bones, but he just keeps playing and he's a great bass player. um There's a handful of us.
Speaker: But what we I'm sure what none of us want to be included in is like with the Kevin Costner's who do it. That is a true vanity project at that point. there There's those of us who have a ah big career that we're known for in another field. But we've also been musicians all our lives. And I put me in that genre with with with those players. you know Yeah, because some of those songs, I mean, yet they have lots of money. They've already got a platform, but it's not a musical platform. And to try to earn that is very hard because you're competing against the guys that are already top notch.
Speaker: in their game. So it's a bit of a tough climb. Yeah, it's like it's like a it could you can let it be a stigma, or you can use it as the advantage to get you in the door. yeah Like we just said, once you're in the door, prove yourself worthy. you know Yes, 100%. And that's that's great. It speaks well of you. So let me shift now to Survivor Man, because I want to ask you, in the last few minutes that we have left here, I want to ask you a little bit about that.
Speaker: The thing about Survivor Man, like like one thing that strikes me with you is authenticity. and you know A lot of the reality TV shows, as you know, are staged and they're not really reality because reality isn't interesting enough, so they end up embellishing it. or and I think there was some issue with the Bear Grylls story and and that trying to copy you, but you were committed to authenticity, so tell me about that.
Speaker: You know, it was a situation where I created something that no one had ever seen before. And then it became a hit. What does that mean? It means profit. What does that mean? It means they need more than six episodes. What's the problem here? I'm really doing this. I can't do 13 episodes in a year would kill me. um So now we have the executive saying, well, we want 26 episodes. You don't need to really do this. Just stay in a hotel, have crews build your shelters for you. You just need to show up and host.
Speaker: And me saying, you know, and literally them going, but they were basing it on a lie and then saying, well, no one will know less. And I thought, no, I will know. it's ah See, you got to remember what I was, was a nature nut and an actual instructor and a teacher. I wasn't doing this to be a TV star. So I said, no, I'm not going to cheat my show.
Speaker: So they brought in Bear Grylls. And the rest is history. After that, every single show, all of them just faked and set up and staged. Every so every one that, you know, Man vs. Well, dual survival, Naked and Afraid, Alaskan, whatever, North of 60, this and that. The only one that that has some realism in it is ah Alone. And those people are good and they they do go through that. The problem is they're not in charge of how the story gets told by the producers. And the producers mix up the stories quite a bit.
Speaker: But other than that, that's what happened there. And the but the reality is, I thought, well, you know, good on you. I'm staying the course. I'm doing what I'm doing, cause because unlike Bear Grylls, I want to be able to kiss my son good night and not be a fraud. And yeah the in those early years, there is no question about it. The and the attempt was there to fake out, the to lie to the viewer, to fake out the audience and pretend that he was actually going through it. Dual survival did the same thing. And it was all a lie. It was all nonsense.
Speaker: So, but for me, I just stayed the course. No, I appreciate that. And, and, and the thing is, is that, you know, it's a life or death thing. Like if, if someone isn't trained, even the highly trained person is at risk, but you take some, some person who's gone fishing a half a dozen times in their life and put them in the middle of nowhere, they could die. So you're almost receiving people, aren't you? Well, well, yeah, exactly. I mean, and, and I'm trying to show real truthful, uh, real ways of surviving in the wilderness. And,
Speaker: What was I really doing? In the end, I was just trying to facilitate for you some skills that might make you feel more comfortable were you to go out in nature, because I want you to connect to nature. That's it. And I may i stuck with that. And whereas, yes, although I think what you're what you're also hitting on or alluding to there is what a lot of the other shows did, because they were making stuff up, is they were being very irresponsible. you know And the thing is this, you don't watch an Olympic ski jumping event on television having never skied before and go out the next day strapping on a set of skis and going to a jump. exactly By the same token you don't watch survival on TV having never been in a park and then you go out the next day and you want to you want to go out and survive. you You don't do that. This is a very serious skill set and I took i kept it that way.
Speaker: Well, yes. And and the things that you emphasize in the shows, which I really appreciate is you've got your survival on the positive side. You need to eat. You need to look after yourself, but then avoiding the the negatives is is equally important because you can do everything right and then die. So you're, you're, at you you're good at explaining that to avoid the pitfalls as well. Well, you know what I was doing. I mean, I was just teaching.
Speaker: That's really all I was doing. I was like her i saying, hey, let let me show you how to do this skill here. you know and But then because i I think I'm a good teacher, I thought, well, i can I can bring you into the nuances of this. So you can actually you know try this, practice this, work this. And as I would always say, just like with my new series Wild Harvest on PBS, I always say,
Speaker: But you can't go out foraging just watching this show. What you need to do is go out with an expert and learn in a class. That's the way you do this, you know. ah So let me yeah let me ask you a couple of questions here. One is you had no gun.
Speaker: Like if I'm out in the woods like that, I would, I would need a gun with me. ah Why are you American? Well, no, but I just, to protect myself, I mean, I mean, look at in Alaska, you watch Alaska state troopers, like everyone in Alaska has, it's open carry because there's so many wild animals and there's so many dangers. So, but you never took a gun that I ever saw. Because those dangers are overplayed. That's not the way it works out out there. You know, if if I'm in polar bear territory, which is an animal known to stalk a human,
Speaker: and consider a human an opportunity, then yes, I will carry a rifle with me and bear bangers and bear spray. When I'm in grizzly territory, what I'm up against is a very remote, very rare possibility of of bumping into a grizzly that has young with it or has a prey that it's killed. Okay, and in that case, I will carry bear bangers or bear spray, but I do not want to take its life. And other than that, what I have is a skill set, which is just confidence. I mean, I've bumped into black bears and grizzlies and cougars.
Speaker: and I've scared them all away. you know I just think that the concept of having a gun is overplayed. I'm not saying there aren't attacks. These are exceedingly rare, but I have faith in my instincts in the wilderness when I am in territory where there might be a rogue black bear or an injured cougar or a grizzly with cubs. you know yeah it's okay it's about learning It's about learning. It's about the skill set of being in nature. That's that's an actual skill set and I and i guess I have it.
Speaker: Okay, good. No, I wanted to ask you about that. i I defer to you on that. I just was curious about that because really, most people have farmers, ranchers, ah you know, sports guys, they they wouldn't go into the woods without some kind of protection. the form Well, they're surrounding themselves though, however, they they surround themselves with that culture, the culture of fear. i mean i draw I mean, I've been on Joe Rogan twice and the next time I if I ever meet him again, I never get on there again.
Speaker: His fear of bears is unbelievable. And he he projects that to his audience. and These things are killers. They're bloodthirsty. and And they'll cite one crazy weird example. And then he'll have someone on his show who's a big game hunter who's like, you better have a rifle everywhere you go. these are They're man eaters. And they'll start saying the word man eater. That's all a bunch of sensationalized crap. well That's what I'm here to say. Fair enough. but how do you So how do you deal with fear?
Speaker: I mean, you've been in some pretty stressful situations. Yeah, it's a great question. um Knowledge. Knowledge. that you you you you get you know Like I said, don't just walk out in nature not knowing anything. I'd be scared too.
Speaker: yeah But go out after you've learned and trained and been out with other people. i mean It takes time. ah let's let's but let's bring it Let's dash it back into music for a second. Do you just jump on stage in front of 15 ,000 people having never been on stage before? yeah fer yeah It takes some some time and practice. you know You need to fail in front of 30 people first before you're going to play in front of 30 ,000.
Speaker: Yeah. So, well, fair enough. But then there's ah extending beyond fear. There's the psychological parts of it, the loneliness, anxiety, the lack of connection, the hunger, lack of sleep, eating foods that make you sick. I mean, you've you've got a whole grocery list of things that are basically working against you. and And none of that, none of that was a death wish. None of that was adrenaline seeking. Those were you alluded earlier to the mountains we have to cross that are in our own mind.
Speaker: those were just literal wilderness mountains to climb. and And my love, my deep love of nature enabled me to to really kind concentrate on getting the skills that say, okay, this is how I deal with thirst. This is how I deal with hunger. This is how I deal with cold. And there is a way to deal with all of them. And that's kind of what I was there for with Survivor Man was to say, often, often I would say, look, I'm just like you. I'm nobody special.
Speaker: I'm not Jeremiah Johnson. In any way, Jeremiah Johnson failed a lot, you know even though he's a fictitious character. um I'm just a dude from Mimico Etobicoke who loved music, who finds himself out in nature, but I'm out here because I've done a lot of learning and training. Yes, and that's I guess that's that's the best answer because you've got multiple things you're dealing with. you know i I remember I was doing a program on relapse prevention, people who are ah trying to stay off of alcohol and drugs, and one of the things that they would say is don't let yourself become overly tired, overly hungry, or overworked.
Speaker: because that weakens you. It weakens your psychology. It makes you more prone to going back to to bad habits. Well, I look at you out there. You're suffering from all of those things, plus you're by yourself and you're you know you've got some perhaps fear or or the potential to be afraid. So you're you're dealing with multiple things at once and and doing it quite well, I must say. Yeah, and you know what? You know what the biggest thing was for me, and it relates to what you just talked about, was actually And why why a harp on it all the time? Getting sleep. Get some rest, man. Get some sleep in you. Look, when it comes to things like addictions and that, and and I'm ah um'm a believer that all of us have varying levels and shades and gradients of addictions we suffer through. And you're right, man. I mean, when am I at my my worst? Well, 1230 a .m. in the morning. you know Maybe I'm watching another episode of Ted Lasso, but I'm pretty tired from a long day.
Speaker: And that's going to be the the moment I was like, you know, what i maybe I should crack a bottle or maybe I should go eat a ton of sugar, you know, and and the old addictions come. But what happens when you wake up in the morning after a good night's rest, all of a sudden you're ready to take on the world again. and And you're not even you're not looking at the bottle, you're not looking at the sugar, you're not looking at the form of addiction that you suffer from. It's the same thing in the wilderness. I get a good night's sleep. I wake up going, all right, you know what I'm going to do today? I'm going to do the best filming i've ever done of building a shelter because i'm feeling good and you're you're so right i mean it's yeah and almost like start there get yeah some sleep get some sleep no that's it's important so i've that's why i was wondering like the psychological part of it because i'm looking at you and i'm thinking what's going on in his brain when he's doing all this and you're talking it through one thing you're good at on survivor man is you're verbalizing everything right okay i'm going to do this
Speaker: I'm going to do this, and then you're thinking out loud, I guess, is what I'd say. which is what i Yeah, I have nobody to talk to except you guys. and and and ah and And what I'm looking at is a round black camera lens. That was my only solace, was looking at that lens. But i you know, ah ah ah tangent for a second, what I would do in those moments, I would often imagine Like if I got down and I got low, and and the loneliness was very difficult, yeah and i and I was getting a little bit crushing there, I would think, you know, someday, somewhere, there's going to be like a 10 -year -old kid who's going to be watching this and hanging off every word I'm about to say. And that's when I would go, come on, Stroud, suck it up. Let's go do it for the kid. And i and and I'm not trying to sound whatever. It's just that that actually motivated me to say, yeah,
Speaker: This is eventually going to be edited in in an edit suite by an editor, by my editor, and where it's going to be color corrected and music's going to be put to it. You better bring it, man. Come on, suck it up. Let's go. Let's let's do something great for the next two hours. Well, good for you. And that's good motivating self -talk and keep keeps you up when you might otherwise be down. The other thing I wanted to ask you about is the foods, like bugs and plants and tainted water. Like, what's the grossest thing you've ever eaten? did you and And you got sick at times, too, right? Yeah. i think yeah well The grossest thing was the Sago larva in Indonesia when I was filming the series Beyond Survival and it was still squiggling in my mouth. and it was just like It tasted like you took um some milk, put it in a Ziploc bag, you left it in the sun for two weeks and then you bit into the bag. It was gross. But on the other hand, you know there's a thing that we in survival we call plate fright. you know After four days without food, you'd be surprised what you're willing to eat. Yeah, there you go.
Speaker: So but you're smart though because you're looking like you analyze the bugs and and you analyze the the berries and stuff and you're very knowledgeable in that right i mean the average again the average person stumbling around in the woods is going to be you know sick from eating the wrong thing very quickly or store starver.
Speaker: Or worse and and they are and it happens and that's why I went down before every survivor man mostly anyway And would spend a week training in the jungle with an expert because my job was then to go spend my week alone. Yes Film it. Yes, but also to disseminate really cool information about this jungle So I would learn before I would go in because if I was just there randomly it would just be a struggle fest It wouldn't be and I wouldn't be filming anything because I'd be struggling too much. Right. Well, I remember the old saying too, I heard years ago that you might love nature, but nature doesn't love you. And so when you're out there, it's it's a cruel environment, right? Well, it's what it is is, it's benign, it's neutral. It doesn't care whether you live or die. but you know So you better you better look after yourself. Yeah. So what was your thoughts about Steve Irwin? Did you ever meet him? did you ever Were you ever inspired by him or did you think he was um sensationalizing? I think
Speaker: you know Similar, because you know later on there was you know the Bear Grylls version of this, I think I will do this. The kudos that I will give to both of those guys was would be the um the the influencing on a younger generation to be adventurous and to get out in nature. um Absolutely kudos to that.
Speaker: now flip it over to the sensationalized side of what they did. No, I hate it. It was crap. That was stupid and silly, and and and I get it. I get i get the larger -than -life personality. but um i had ah i you know i Again, I respect his love of nature, but you know even Steve, you don't rest in peace, but Steve could take a lot of criticism criticism for the way he interrupted the lives of certain species. if so this wasn't about This wasn't like David Attenborough here. We weren't learning about this snake. This is all about can he catch it. m that ain't my shtick. Well, and again, the way he died was basically in the other in that environment where he shouldn't have been and paid the price for that. Mm hmm. Yeah, the rent a random situation. But, you know, you keep you if you eat well you you keep gambling, you know, and and so if we counter that with survivor man, what did I not do? I didn't gamble.
Speaker: I never gambled on the show. It was like, huh, you know what? I think it's going to freaking rain tonight. So I want to go gather these cattails and eat them, but I'm running out of time. You know what's better? And this might be more boring. I need to have a better roof or I'm going to be soaked in the middle of the night. And so I didn't gamble and and i I didn't teach gambling.
Speaker: Yeah. That's why I asked about that because I mean, he would do, Steve Irwin would do stuff like, you know, grab a crocodile by the tail and wrestle it down and stuff. And that's all cool and everything. But it's really, what is at the end of the day, what does that mean or what does that teach us or anything? Well, and what what do we, what are we doing here? You know, you know what it is. I i don't, I'm an, yes, I'm an entertainer. Yes. I love entertainment. Uh, and I've been born in a different era. I would have been a song and dance man. However, the thing I can't escape with me is I love.
Speaker: edutainment i love educating i love people going home with learning and don't they don't even realize they've learned something so i start there. And then it just turns out i'm a ham and i'm a funny guy i have a wit and i'm a decent entertainer great i don't use that skill set but the point but what i really want to do is i really want to show you how to properly get through this night in the wilderness.
Speaker: well That's right. and That's why we always say you don't sell the sizzle, you sell the steak. okay like The substance is what will win out in the end. The sizzle can come as an epiphenomenon or ah outgrowth of that, but it's the steak. It's the meat of what's happening that that really is going to win out in the end. and i think I think you're vindicated in that area, I would say.
Speaker: Well, and and, you know, as a filmmaker, too, I really wanted to get better and better and better. And I love the nuances. I would do things that were that were nuanced. And every once in a while when someone would see that or recognize it and they would tell me, oh, I know so I saw what you did. there I'm like, yeah, all right. Somebody noticed, you know, some cool little camera movement or, you know, storytelling thing that I did. And I loved that. That was the creative part of me, you know, and really enjoying itself.
Speaker: Cool. All right. Well, can I do a little rapid fire here at the end? I got a probably a few more five questions I just want to do a quick one ah quick ones with you um So you did the Bigfoot series and I saw you on Joe Rogan. So what what's your what's your deal with the Bigfoot? Do you think yes? No, you're still undecided Well, the question is is it plausible and the answer is I'm just about to release the fact that I'm producing a new film called the question of Bigfoot and And that will answer your question. I'm so copping out on you right now. Okay. No, that's fine. I mean, you know, in philosophy, we we used to talk about, is something possible? Is it plausible? Is it probable? Yeah. That's what we need to do with Bigfoot. Not, is it real? And do you believe? That's got, those are stupid questions. Yeah. Cause that's, sure, it's possible. Is it plausible? Yeah. Is it probable? Hmm, we'll see you need more evidence and you need you know, so anyway, but but I watched a couple of them and it was cool Next question. Have you reached the level of success that you wanted? I mean when you started out you you say I want to be fill in the blank Are you that? Yes, I would say I reached that level Years ago when I realized that I created something that is enduring
Speaker: and that people reacted to, but now i just it's just more and more and more. you know I just love creating. and To me, it's create and release, create and release, create and release, create. And I love this road. So short answer is yes.
Speaker: Oh, good. No, I'm happy for you. And and what would you anything you do differently if you could do it again? Any decisions you made? or Yeah. Oh, there's a million things I do differently if I can do it again. But um I think the bottom line was I regret that um how long everything has taken me. ah My lack of discipline as a child, as ah as a teenager, again, no guidance, no mentorship. So I never understood self discipline. If I could do something differently, it would be to invoke self -discipline when I was in my teen years. Right. Although, you know, the old saying that every every experience you've had, good or bad, has brought you to the moment you're at right now. So I recognize that. Yeah, I recognize that. and You know, and some people, well, Les, you know, ah because I had BMG shopping my music to Bruce Springsteen when I was 23 years old. And I walked away from that. I walked and people, yeah, but you never know. You know, Les, you would never become survivor, man. And maybe you would have been a drug addict. Yeah.
Speaker: Or maybe I would have been a celebrated songwriter. So you can't, it's like, yeah, like one way or the other, do I regret that i that I was lame when it came to record labels asking for my music? Yeah, I regret that deeply. like Okay. Fair enough. I mean, like the old saying, you never get to see the path you don't take.
Speaker: but you know still you can speculate on it and go, I probably would have done this differently. um What's your view on the business stuff? Did you ever get mistreated taking advantage of like record deals and TV deals? You ever get to - Oh man, that that's an hour long talk in itself. here's what i Here's how I will say. Here's what I will say.
Speaker: I am one of the luckiest producers in history. I never ever did not walk into a boardroom in meetings with Discovery Channel, National Geographic, whomever, where I wasn't prepared to say, nah, that's okay, and walk out. I was always ready to walk out. It never was so much to me that, i oh my gosh, I hope they take, I know hope they say yes, so I'll acquiesce to anything you,
Speaker: Not a chance, man. I i will say i I was probably a thorn in the side of Discovery Channel because I had successful works, and I never played their game. And and I beat them at their own games. I know this is just braggadocio at this point, and it could be over a beer. This is another conversation. but I'll just say that, that in the business of television, I totally, I owned them. I owned it, man. So many things I did that they will never know about um where I beat them at their own game. and I don't know. Sometimes you just got to have the cojones to do that. Well, yes. And you had your own content as well, right? A lot of times they just dangle a carrot in front of you and say, if you want this, you have to do that. You do whatever we say, we'll get you. We'll make you a star. You, you were able to skirt that completely because you had your own content. I had my own content, but also because I didn't care. Yeah. There you go. I was like, you know what? I got other things I could be doing. And so if you guys are not going to do it, my, my creation, my way, I'm out of here.
Speaker: And you know what, I never, they they always acquiesced to me. Yeah. Well, the thing is it negotiating 101, I took a course in negotiating one time and that was the first thing. Never go into a negotiation that you're not prepared to walk away from. Exactly. And you know what, when you are, it's fun. It's kind of fun to watch the other guys squirm. Cause they get that right away. Like they get, it doesn't take long for them to realize, okay, wait a second. This is not a dis disproportionate relationship here. We're going to have to make a deal that's makes sense for both of us.
Speaker: And that's the way I am. I say, well, I want win -win. I'm not going to go into a negotiation with anybody unless we both win. I'm not trying to take advantage. I don't need to exploit anyone or take advantage of anybody. I just want everyone. but that's That's very true. But the problem with that scenario is that when when if the one year if it was you and I doing a particular say a songwriting deal of some sort, now you're talking the same language. However, if it was a room with six people and four of them are lawyers,
Speaker: There's no win -win there. it's it's it's One of us is going to win, and the other one is going to grumble. Are we doing the deal or not? Well, that's right. and they They'll give you 50 bucks and pat you on the head, and if you'll take it, they're happy. That's just a good day's business for them. right yeah i'll tell it here there's a tiny i mean there's There's dozens and dozens, but a tiny little tangent story. For example, I'm the only host of Discovery Channel in history that got paid to do interviews. Nobody else ever got paid. And they just looked at, like well, Les, we don't pay people. Yeah. yeah and And well, then I'm not going to Jimmy Fallon. Well, Les, come on. I mean, you know, and by the way, by the way, you're going to finally be on Ellen. You're finally business class. Oh, Les, I mean, come on. Nobody has it. Well, then I'm not going. Yeah.
Speaker: ah is it as it did too you know And and the best the best thing of all is the silence. is where It's when you go, well, I'm not going and you say nothing else. That's the best part. yeah and you were Were you able to avoid the drugs and booze and the reckless lifestyle that factors into music and celebrity status? I went through that in my teenage years. so I was a teenage alcoholic and i and I ended up in the hospital on drugs and all the rest of that. So I got out of that when I was about 19.
Speaker: And I got out of drinking when I was about 22. I went 22 years without a drop of alcohol. but i will And so now I'm just enjoying a fine wine and a Guinness. Yeah, that's good to hear. I mean, I usually ask musicians that, and you know of course you get a whole bunch of different answers and some some positive and some not so much. so Well, like I said, though, i just I just want to finish that. But like I said, we all have gradients of addictions within us. And um you know when my wife was diagnosed with cancer, I was an instant alcoholic. I drank a bottle every night for three months straight. right Now, she's fine. Everything's great. yeah no
Speaker: Um, but, uh, and then my other addiction would be, you know, sugar. I can, if I'm in a bad place, I'm, I'm shoving, you know, Skippy peanut butter into my own mouth, like it's water, you know, so it's, we have all of these things and, um, you know, working, working is the great coping mechanism. You know what? Get to work then.
Speaker: Yeah. And that's, that's a good one. It's funny cause I wrote a book a number of years ago and I interviewed over 300 people between the ages 65 and a hundred. And one old farmer, he said to me, your, your mind is like a steering wheel. You have to keep your hands tight on the steering wheel at 10 o 'clock and two o 'clock. So you don't go into the oncoming traffic and you don't go into the ditch. Very simple lesson, but that was his philosophy about how you deal with his mind. And I thought it was brilliant. It is very good. So, so good. Are you, you're a happy guy. It sounds like you you're pretty comfortable in your own skin.
Speaker: Yeah, I i am. and i And like I said earlier about my resiliency in that, it's in my DNA and I don't know why. And, um, it doesn't mean that I have a lack of empathy. It doesn't mean that, it that, um, i'm I'm insensitive. I do recognize for whatever reason, and, and, you know, of course I berate myself over this and over that. And of course I feel inadequate over this and inadequate over that. Of course I have all of that to deal with, but for whatever reason, man, life is short. So so just keep marching on, you know, and, and, you know, and the worst thing anybody else can say in every situation is no.
Speaker: So go ahead and ask, you know, go ahead and ask. Well, and part of the reason I asked that question is because really our goal in life, everyone has goals. And I've talked to people who have done all these great things and they have a list of accomplishments so long, I can't even read them out on the podcast. And then you say, well, are you happy? And they're like, you know, are you content? I mean, isn't contentment the goal? Isn't that what we're looking for in life?
Speaker: Happiness and contentment, two different words there. ah yeah For me, ah happy, sure, but that's challenged all the time by my own inadequacies. Content, yeah ah yes, ah in a materialistic way and in in a life situation way, I would be a fool if I wasn't content. In a creative way, I'm anxious.
Speaker: and not so much contempt, but I'm anxious because I'm 62. Now, North Stars are, you know, Bruce Coburn is 75, and Leonard Nicole was 84 when he did his last album, and Mel Brooks is almost 100, you know. and And, you know, Norman Lear, who was almost 100, you know, was still working away on it. I look at those and I think, okay, 62, hell, I got another 35 years of producing. So,
Speaker: I'm not content creatively. I'm a little bit anxious and intent on continuing. Yeah. I mean, contentment is being happy with what you already have. And I would say I'm content, but I see you still have aspirations. You still want to do this. And what's left for you to do? You're just going to keep carrying on the same path you're on now. and Well, and let let me let me touch on that and say, you know, the thing is, I came from nothing. I really literally was low income, had nothing, no mentorship, no guidance, no anything from a parent's dysfunction, this and that, yada, yada.
Speaker: ah alcoholism, drug addicts, all that stuff, right? And yet I did just fine. So now the contentment in my material status, for example, I do literally mean that you could you could take it all away tomorrow. And i I know that what I've done and what I've had has been phenomenal and brilliant. You know, the world doesn't owe me anything. Recently, I heard a great new quote by Willie Nelson, and he's like he's got a lot of great quotes, but this was a new one I hadn't heard before. And he's just, you know, what makes us mean, you know, in moving forward is every day do something that pays for the day.
Speaker: And I thought, oh, that is good. I don't care if that's exercising or loving my partner or writing a song one way or another. You got to pay for the day. So that keeps me going. So what's next is cherry picking some filmmaking, like I said, the Bigfoot special or something. But otherwise, it's music, music, music, music. I am not. I have so much creation of music on deck. And I want to get it out before I can't.
Speaker: Well, good. Well, we'll help you promote that and we'll recommend that people have a listen to it. And I know we've gone a little bit over time, but I really thank you for for taking the time and all this cool, what a cool conversation. Thank you for the insightful questions. I i perform more depth and you certainly provided the depth and I appreciate that.
Speaker: Many thanks to Les Stroud for being part of the Line of Notes podcast, ensuring some insights from his incredible experiences in the music business and in life. More information is available at lesstroudmusic .com, also lesstroud .ca, lots of information there. And on YouTube, check it out at Les Stroud Music. We hope you enjoyed the podcast. We invite you to subscribe to it and share it on social media so others can enjoy it as well.
Speaker: and we also invite you to listen to Dusty Death's radio Tuesdays and Thursdays to hear your music from the Canadian artists you're hearing on this show. So until next time, I'm Dan Harris.
