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Guest Glimpses - Keith Sharp RETURNS, Rick Mason, Kim Berly RETURNS, Frank Marino
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This is the 32nd episode of our special series ‘Guest Glimpses’, short bits from longer conversations with previous guests. You’ll hear about 10 minutes of each guest’s 60+ minute chat with show host Dan Hare. Featured guests this week are:
KEITH SHARP RETURNS, founder of the iconic Canadian music magazine Music Express and author of the book “Music Express: The Rise, Fall & Resurrection of Canada's Music Magazine”. In this clip Keith recaps a bit of the history of Music Express; talks about the complexities of the late Myles Goodwyn; explains the biggest problem facing legacy rock bands and more.
RICK MASON, composer, musician and drummer of the iconic band The Mynah Birds. In this short clip Rick talks how being friends and bandmates with Rick James; why The Mynah Bird’s record was pulled from radio hours before it’s debut; how Neil Young came to be in the band, and more.
KIM BERLY RETURNS, Juno award-winner, SOCAN lifetime achievement recipient, drummer, singer and songwriter for the Canadian classic rock band The Stampeders. In a clip from this follow-up chat, Kim talks about: what he does to keep in shape; his bandmates; performing live these days, and more. NOTE: since this interview originally aired in September of 2023, bassist/singer/songwriter Ronnie King has passed away. He is missed.
FRANK MARINO, Canadian icon and guitar virtuoso, singer and leader of the band Mahogany Rush. In this short clip Frank shares: the one thing he did that other bands of the time weren’t doing; why planning doesn’t work; his philosophy for life and music, and more.
LISTEN to the full interview with each guest @linernotes.ca
Transcript
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi it's Dan here and I wanted to let you know that this is a very special episode of the show. Some glimpses from my chats with four previous guests. You'll hear about 10 minutes of each guest's 60 plus minute conversation which will give you a small idea of the many topics that we covered. Also you can listen to the entire conversation at either linernotes.ca or on any podcast platforms. Just search for liner notes revealing chats with Canada's retro music makers.
00:00:27
Speaker
Enjoy. Today, I'm very honored to once again have as my guest Keith Sharp from the iconic Canadian music magazine, Music Express. We'll be talking about as many experiences in the Canadian music scene over the past five decades. Keith Sharp has a lengthy list of accomplishments as and and is an integral part of the Canadian musical landscape with countless stories to tell. So we look forward to hearing some more of those. So thanks for joining me today, Keith. How are you? I'm doing fine. Thank you. Yeah. it's so Great talking to you again.
00:00:56
Speaker
Well, great. I appreciate it. So we had you on before and just a quick recap. You talked about your history and how you came from England and you were raised on Elvis and Buddy Holly and all the musical influences that you had. And then came to Canada and through a circuitous route, ended up doing sports and then music and ended up starting Music Express magazine, I guess in 1978, which had been ah Alberta Music Express in 1976. Actually, yeah, it was Alberta in 1976 and then it sort of threw a ah record chain out west called Kelly's.
00:01:34
Speaker
Um, they, they, you know, uh, were distributing the magazine. And of course there, they were in BC and Alberta and Saskatchewan. So it really, you know, it wasn't really appropriate to call it Alberta music express at the time. And then, um, you know, we sort of outgrew our Calgary location and we kind of had a choice of either going to Vancouver, you know, because we were very tight with Bruce Allen and his staple of people.
00:02:04
Speaker
or moved to Toronto, and in actual fact, right at the end of 1979, I went to Toronto to talk to the record companies there about us moving to Vancouver, and literally the day that I arrived, the only Toronto-based magazine folded, and they said, no, no, no, no, no, we don't want you to come to Vancouver. We want you to come to Toronto.
00:02:33
Speaker
yeah and you've got to be like the national magazine. And so literally, I think it was January of intake. And so of going west, we came east and I've been based in Toronto ever since. Your book came out in 2014, The Music Express, Rise, Fall and Resurrection of Canada's Music Magazine. You know, you're a Canadian music icon, I guess, in your own right because of all the experiences you've had and been on the ground floor with a lot of these bands and you were active in that sort of golden age of of all these bands coming up in the 80s and into the 70s. That's been the thing. i mean At that point, you know there seems to be a bit of a renaissance.
00:03:15
Speaker
With a lot of these bands, mean you know they always always felt that legacy wasn't complete and they still had to do something. But they were putting new albums out, but they weren't getting any airplay. So I kind of like initially took that position.
00:03:33
Speaker
of hey you know these are all you know good friends of mine as well and I'd love to be able to do something for them and still be cognizant of any new bands that are coming along.
00:03:46
Speaker
yeah So it's sort of trying to kind of like balance it between the legacy bands and the new bands. Cool. So it's the music express.ca is where your book is available. And it's on Amazon as well. I'm assuming you can get that book you know on other platforms as well. There's some copies available. The music express.ca. And I have to ask you about Miles Goodwin, of course, because he passed away. You wrote a piece ah on music express. If people want to yeah go there and check it out. Miles is another one.
00:04:15
Speaker
ah that um I've had a long relationship with and talked to him on several occasions. And as I say, you know is there's always an interesting character to say the least and very outspoken. And I think in that piece that you read, I think I explained it. I mean, again, um when ah the Henmans all left,
00:04:41
Speaker
I think they just assumed that was going to be the end of April wine, and they were like, no, I'll keep going myself. and I think he's been kind of like that benevolent dictator. you know Yeah, we can run the band, but I'm sorry, I have the final word. Sometimes that's been fine, and sometimes that's been a bit on the rocky side.
00:05:01
Speaker
Well, you do mention that and then the other quote was Miles could be a cantankerous character to deal with and we found that out in 1982. Well, Scott's kind of know him and I don't know, he's not, ah I get along, you know, I got go out look get along with him before I got along with him fine because I kind of knew that, the you know, he was, at the end of the day, he would put his foot down on the on the band itself. And, you know, a lot of times when they weren't doing well, I mean, he was the guy, right? He so wrote the songs, he sang the songs. And then when it got a bit on the rocky side was when the albums weren't doing well, like certain members of the band started to get a bit critical of him and his attitude was, if you can do better,
00:05:55
Speaker
I'm going to take off to the Bahamas for six months or something. When I come back, I expect to see what they've done. They came back and they've done nothing. So as he showed you, you need me. Again, it got weird towards the end. I think they had a few albums that didn't do well. Then when him and Brian got the thing back together again, there's always been a market for them.
00:06:24
Speaker
you know, those US states or see it now, like those exhibitions. I mean, and they've always done well. And I think you just got and he any idea, yeah, there's health problems, you know, all along. Right. and Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting what what you you point about, you know, being the bad leader, being the guy that writes the songs. I mean, John Fogarty went through a similar thing with CCR, right? It's a push pull. I mean, you have to have somebody driving the train, but the person driving the train can get a little,
00:06:52
Speaker
you know, edgy or jumpy or cocky about it at times too, right? Well, I think yeah you've got you've kind of got to be that way if you're going to be in it as long as they have. And they're ups and downs. And I think, you know, they got, you know, particularly him and and Brian ah kind of got things rolling again. and But I think, ah you know, again, it's like, don't do it again. It's another tour, another tour.
00:07:22
Speaker
And, you know, he goes blues album thing where you've done a couple of blues albums and that's where he wanted to go. Um, so yeah, I mean, it was a bit strange that they had a new, a new lead singer and to replace him. And apparently, you know, the word was coming back that, you know, they're actually doing quite well. But Miles is April line. I mean, I don't know how to get around that.
00:07:53
Speaker
That's the biggest problem with you know all these classic legacy rock bands. I mean, they're not getting any younger and it's getting harder and harder for them to kind of go out there and play, particularly when you've got Live Nation with all these other bands, you know, charging crazy amounts of money, even though maybe they're into the 70s or something.
00:08:19
Speaker
And then now you've got all these tribute bands flooding the market where it's like you want to hear the music of that band, but you want to pay 15 bucks or something to go see them play. You know, there's that seems to be the point. thing I'm saying that because of the box. So they could have an ongoing problem in that, you know, it costs them maybe 10 grand to play a show.
00:08:47
Speaker
you know, who who is going to pay that as sort of money when the market is flooded with all these sort of tribute bands that are playing for like next to nothing.
00:08:59
Speaker
Yeah, and and again, too some of the bands try to draw the distinction while the original members. Well, yeah, how do you define an original member? Somebody who played the spoons on a track, on the third track, on an album cut, you know, that's the original member. It's it's the principle, the voice, the the vibe of the band. That's that's what the original band is. and And you're right, there's very few and they're diminishing quickly because people are getting older and passing on.
00:09:24
Speaker
um mean know it It goes without saying. If you're talking about a band that was formed in the 70s and 80s or something, but you're having a hard time keeping it together, yeah and i mean there's so many instances now. There's that new lady for Toronto,
00:09:42
Speaker
replacing Hollywoods. There's a car from Street Heart replacing Kenny. And the head pins, how many girls have they gone through? There have been a few now. And they're still trying to present the original music, but with new people. And of course, when their own commercials to say to play it is inevitably the original music that they're playing so it's not what you're actually getting but I mean it's just the way it is right now, unfortunately. I mean it's like there's always that kind of understanding that these bands are never quite going to be the same as they were 20 years ago.
00:10:28
Speaker
Today, I'm very honored to have as my guest drummer, musician, composer, Rick Mason, best known as the drummer for the iconic band, The Mine of Birds. So you, you obviously got yourself into the Toronto music scene. Oh yeah. Well, we had a band in Brantford called The Bunkies and we went, wouldn't you know Ron Morey? Do you know the name Ron Morey? I don't, I've been out on the west coast now since I was, I mean, 10, 12 years old. And he's, he owns, he owns half a Manhattan Island. and Okay. And he wanted to be our singer.
00:10:57
Speaker
He lived in Brantford, too. yeah So he got us a job. We said, if you can get us a job in Toronto, because he had a gift. And we played in Toronto as an opening band for the Lords of London. And we stomped. I said, I'm never going to sound like that again in my life or I won't play again. We met Rick James, actually. He watched us play and said, you guys want to join our band because we're having a hell of a time getting the right people. Right. And that's what I was going to ask you about because you came along a little bit after like the minor of birds reformed a couple times, right? And you were in one of those reformations. Is that fair to say? I'm proud to say we're in the best work.
00:11:34
Speaker
yeah yeah Well, good. You know, it's funny cause I often ask my guests too. Like when you look back on the timelines and stuff, everything was so short, you know, young guys and people switching chairs. It's like musical chairs, you know, like it was unbelievable. Why is that? Do you think I don't know. The music was fairly easy. but Um, we but we lived in the village too, in Toronto and that was a 66. Yeah. Okay. And, uh, lighthouse, which was the poppers, Stefan Wolf,
00:12:04
Speaker
Steppenwolf was a sparrow. and And we all just migrated between bands all over the place. And then when we had to go on the road, we had to rush around in a hurry and get the right band back together. Well, I guess, and everyone's sort of jockeying for position as well, right? You're trying to find that formula for success and which one works. And then you sort of ride the winning horse for a bit. And then other people have, I guess, different aspirations or different musical tastes, whatever that happens to be. Well, you know, none of us ever thought there. We were just having fun playing music and enjoying it. Never thought about anything like I never had stardom in my mind ever. Yeah. Well, the camaraderie, I mean, being in a band was a very cool thing to do back then. And, you know, yes, it was. So the interesting thing about the minor birds though, is that you never actually ah released an album. You did some recording and then you had a record deal. I mean, you were signed to Motown Records, right? Right. Um, we, we actually did, we have the best part of an LP stashed away somewhere. Okay.
00:13:01
Speaker
But the timing was just off. We were crossing the border going back and forth and Rick finally got busted. Right. And our record was supposed to come out that day and we were told what time it was going to play and it didn't. The animals tune. House of the Rising Sun Navy or something was in place of it. So just to inform our guests, Rick James was in the band. He was AWOL from the U.S. Navy, right? And he had come up to Toronto and and got into the music community there. And eventually I caught up with him and he had to go back and and that sort of scuttled your Yeah, we're doing stupid there for a while, but we still had contracts to fill without it, right? So we had to get other players so you went out and sort of re refurbed the band without Rick and and fulfilled the contracts Yeah, we got them done and then so the recording part of it though like that I was said I was trying to put it together in my mind how that went so you had Rick James in the band and then eventually Neil Young came in and
00:13:56
Speaker
Yeah, he almost took us at the start of going into... Was he okay? Yeah. Yeah. How was it? How was it having Rick James in the band? What was that like? Him and I had a ball together. We were in trouble all the time. Yeah. But him's just like my brother. Yeah. Well, his name was Ricky James Matthews is what he went by. Right. And mine and i so I started to call myself Ricky James Mason because my middle name is James. Okay.
00:14:21
Speaker
And we get in trouble downtown Toronto for running around being stupid and the cops would stop us. And then we get in trouble because he'd go, some of you, one of you's who's got the wrong name. Yeah. That's funny. But well really, yeah eventually the cops got the notice and trauma just left us alone. So we're, yeah. Well, that's cool. You know, that's the interesting thing about the minor birds. Cause it gave birth to a lot of different, uh, very successful projects, right? A lot of people went on and Rick was very successful in the eighties. And then I guess, you know, he he got caught up in the.
00:14:49
Speaker
in the the downside of the business and the drugs and all that. Oh, that was just, you know, we did our little totes here and there, but we never really, we played music. yeah we We never were druggies and I don't know. He just got into that next, I guess.
00:15:04
Speaker
Well, I guess the people around you and the, and the level of success, because he was a, you know, I don't know if he was a superstar, but he became very prominent in the eighties, of course. And yeah just got into that lifestyle, I guess. And, but it's it's a sad, so he died in 2004, right? God, I guess that's that's a long time ago. It was 20 years ago now. but Yeah. Well, good. Well, I wanted to ask you about that too. And, uh, you know, the the thing about, uh, the minor of birds, like you guys, you found your way, right? I mean, you had record deals, you're doing lots of live shows, you signed to Columbia and then Motown and, yeah and, uh, you know, it just, uh, just never, um, sort of materialized. Cause I guess the guys left the band and I was going to ask you about Neil Young being in the band. Actually, he was only in the band for like four months. Okay. Five months. I really don't know it so long ago, but yeah.
00:15:53
Speaker
ah Bruce Palmer found him. Okay. And I don't know. He said he was walking down the street in Northville one day and asked if he wanted to play in the band because our lead guitar player, when we signed with Motown, he quit. He says, no, this is all a ruse. It's not going to happen. It's going to be well whatever. So we had to get somebody in a hurry.
00:16:12
Speaker
So the two things that I wanted to ask you about with with the Neil Young influence, one is like Neil neil Young obviously was a very self-directed guy. So he's sort of a short term guy. He's been through how many projects you couldn't even count. You need a calculator. Oh God, yes. So I thought to myself, okay, he's he's just testing the waters everywhere he goes and he's not sticking around for very long. So that was my initial sense of it, which you confirmed.
00:16:37
Speaker
Well, he was capable of being a one, one man band. So, yeah, so that's perfect. I was wish I could. but Yeah. There you go. But the other thing that I, that was curious to me is the genres and the influences, you know, like, like, so your pop rock, your Motown, but Rick James said, I think in an interview that he wanted, he thought it was folk R and B. So he thought that it was super cool. Cause Neil at that time had an acoustic guitar and was basically a folk singer, right? Yeah. But he basically just came in and sang what we did. He didn't do his own stuff.
00:17:07
Speaker
Right. He actually didn't even have any of his own stuff really then, I don't think. Yeah. So how did the how did the record companies, I mean, you're signed to Motown, obviously the R and&B influences there, the blues. So somebody described it as blues based folk rock. He was a Rolling Stones addict. Rick James, everything he did on stage, he mimicked.
00:17:28
Speaker
This is him again. Right, Mick Jagger. So he's the black Mick Jagger, right? Yeah, it's one of the things he was yeah with a with a black beanie on his head. That's great. Yeah. We would learn a song in the car. He'd hear a Rolling Stones song and we'd be in the limo going somewhere and he'd we'd be in the back seat. We'd be learning the tune. Yeah. play And we'd go on stage and play it that night.
00:17:48
Speaker
Well, the thing with Rick James, he had the X factor, right? People just liked him. I mean, he couldn't help but smile watching the guy sing and play. It was a lot of fun. Yeah. So so then I thought to myself, well, how does how does the record company? So I mean, obviously, if you get a song, hit song, to hit song, but they have to package it in some way. So rhythm and blues rock and roll, garage rock, blues rock. I don't know. It's it's hard to categorize. I think you just do what you feel you should do. yeah He was really I don't know. He's in his own vein when he left. Yeah.
00:18:18
Speaker
Actually, I never went to jail I guess he just well he came back to Toronto and tried to get me to go to New York with them Okay, but there's a big difference like Neil Young made it because his parents had lots of money Okay, Rick James's mom always come and took care of him from Buffalo. He gets sick once in a while She'd take care of him Bruce Palmer's parents were really rich and that's what weren't right and You know, yeah good. No, that's because, you know, when you see stories like, well, I've read Neil's book, you know, it was a waging heavy piece. But um I've read that book. But, you know, it takes a lot of stones to sort of get in your truck. You're getting in your car with no money and just head off to California, like to do that money. See, that's the thing. He had money. Yeah, there you go. And he had our guitar, even the Canada, give us a lot of money to get or get rebuild our group with good equipment.
00:19:09
Speaker
Yeah. So we bought him a Rickenbacker with the money. and he Every time we see the Rickenbacker, I say, that's my guitar. yeah but did you stay Did you stay in touch at all? or did you Never. truck no When he was gone, he was gone. yeah so It was a hard guy to be with. When we went on the road, he'd won his own route. He wouldn't share with anybody. yeah It was just that, well, he had an affliction. I forget what he had. He has a health problem anyway. Yeah.
00:19:39
Speaker
Well, again, very, very sort of myopic and self-directed guy, right? For better or for worse. He knew what he wanted to do and it wasn't going to involve a lot of other people at times or he would just, people would come and go and that's it, right? I always remember the first time he played with us. We were on stage and he stepped forward to do his lead and his guitar unplugged. And he did the whole lead, not knowing it was unplugged. We just slapped our arses off that.
00:20:05
Speaker
Did you ever think of moving to the States and sort of reestablishing yourself down there and pursuing your career? Well, I love my wife so much and she got viral pneumonia near died and that packed it in for quite a while. Okay. And I said, no, I want i want to be home because, but my uncle lives and lived in San Rafael, California. Okay. Across the road from Huey Lewis. Yeah. Okay. And Huey wanted me to go play with him. And I said, no, I want to stay home. I want i i just, I got to be with my wife. And it never bothered me one bit. I'm happy today. Everything's good.
00:20:38
Speaker
Today, I'm thrilled to once again have as my guest, Kim Burley, drummer, singer, songwriter, So Can Lifetime Achievement Award winner and founding member of the legendary Canadian band, The Stampeders, classic Canadiana and songs that are still loved by everyone today. The Stampeders touring with the original lineup. I saw you guys in Chilliwack. I got to come out and and hang out and we've got a picture and I got to hear the band and stuff. So, um, just, just that in itself, you know, to have a band that's like 50 years ago.
00:21:05
Speaker
and you're still touring with the original lineup. I mean, that that that's got to be rare, right? Oh, it's extremely rare. I can't think of another Canadian band or American band for that matter that is completely intact. So, you know, we've got guys now, we're all in our mid 70s. So we have, oh God, well over 200 years of life yeah that we bring to the stage. And um yes, I am i'm quite grateful myself to be um that we can all do that, because it's ah it's a significant thing. I mean, that people will go and see all kinds of ah bands. ah There may be a member or two missing, or maybe only one original member, or in some cases none.
00:21:48
Speaker
my job absolutely But here we are, you know, it's always it always ah garners a great round of applause when when Ronnie says we are the original three, you know, Ronnie King, Rich Dodson and Kim Burley. And that's ah yeah, it's a buzz. Well, that's cool. And and you know, ZZ Top would have been the only rival in that. And of course, Dusty Hill passed away, I think a couple of years ago now. Yeah. So they were.
00:22:09
Speaker
you know, I guess life goes on, but one of the interesting things about you is that when I came to see the band in Chilliwack, you know, I thought, okay, these guys are, they've been around for a very long time. I kind of adjusted my expectations a little bit, but you guys were excellent. It was great. ah You played your drumming was great and and the band played all the tunes. I mean, of course, you know, Ronnie sits down now and enriches, you know, not what he was, but still really good. And he played well and the the band sounded really good. So I was I don't want to say pleasantly surprised because I expected that you'd be decent, but it was better than I thought if I can if I can say that.
00:22:45
Speaker
ah Well, yeah, I mean, uh, and you know, that's, that's, uh, not an uncommon, um, response. And I don't know. Um, I guess we've just kept our chops up to a decent level. And, um, we spend the day on performance days. We basically, you know, we may have a drive, uh, but basically I'm the only one who drives that we always, there's a couple of vehicles on the road and.
00:23:08
Speaker
And Rich is a passenger and Ronnie's a passenger and I do the driving. and But then it's just, you know, basically to lay back and conserve all the energy you possibly can and lay it out on the stage in that two hours that we're out there, sort of thing. And your your new knees, because I remember the last time we talked, you had got your knee replacements and and yeah there was no effect and at all. your Your knees are working great now and you feel good.
00:23:31
Speaker
the The effect is I feel 20 years younger, you know, because all that all that pain that goes with ah with the blown joints, it goes away. And so if you're out there listening and you are considering getting a knee replacement, ah yeah, do. Well, good for you. And of course you're playing and singing was was good and you're still in shape, like your your weight is good. And and I'm assuming you're you're healthy. You certainly look good. Yeah. Well, yeah. and and um ah But you know, I mean, ah kind of been I'm a small person and I've lived an active ah life and about 20, 24 years ago now, 23 years ago, I was watching a biography of biographical piece on TV about Sting and and he did this ah fantastic yoga that looked great to me and i and I'm not an exercise. ah you know I've kept fit by, by by you know I've always been a walking person, I've walked like
00:24:26
Speaker
all of my life a lot and and ah so I see this and I thought you know I could do that and so I did I started and I've been practicing yoga now for 23 years oh very cool and and it's that's the you know that'll keep your body strong and and and looking good for that matter too because you're exercising all of your muscles and it can it can be designed it's changed a lot over the years ah you know my early yoga practice was very vigorous and very sweaty and you know
00:24:58
Speaker
yeah like Like literally a consistent hour, hour and a half of movement. And ah so it's it's ah mellowed a good deal now. If I'm a little sore in the mornings, I take it easy. You don't just leap on these things at 75. You ease yourself in. And by the end of the, ah you know, ah anything from half hour to an hour and a half now, I'll be yeah gently massaging all all of my body parts.
00:25:23
Speaker
Well, the interesting thing about that, you're a drummer, so so there's always been a physical component to what you do, and that's not going to change, right? You're going to have to be physically capable as long as you want to play. Yeah. And and it's a rock you know it's rock and roll drumming. And years ago, Stan Peters went on tour with Black Oak, Arkansas, who were really big in the southern US. And so we were opening for them. And they had a drummer named Tommy Aldrich, who I got to watch you know night after night, and who kind of showed me how much energy and ah strength you could put into rock drumming. now it's you know
00:25:59
Speaker
part of its show because if it's just all muscle you're not actually going to be playing very well but to develop a really good ah loud you know smack on the drums you have to put some energy into it and so that's part of but my style of drumming i think it's it's mellowed a bit over the years but it's it's still aggressive and it's it's still i'm still a power drummer Yeah, and your solo was great. and I loved it. So ah yeah, really good. And how's Ronnie doing? is he yeah I guess he would be the least healthy of the three of you. Would that be fair? well ronnie Ronnie is our real rock and roller. you know ronnie had Ronnie lived it. And you know the ah the mantra of of the rock star is excessive living.
00:26:40
Speaker
and so without going into detail. Ronnie lived up to that time example. and And so, you know, it takes the edge off. You should get older. And the other thing about ah that particular lifestyle is you don't feel like exercising a lot. Fortunately, he got a dog.
00:26:56
Speaker
and you know some years ago and and so the dog kept him out and walking which is really good and that's no doubt served him well but hey he's a year older than me and he's still up there in the stage and the interesting thing is his breath is still good he can still oh good you know he can still um you know he had that great loud voice right he's a very powerful singer and he still is Yeah, good. Well, and he's still kicking. I mean, if I guess he was, well, I wouldn't go so far as to say kick but ki yeah so because he literally used to kick like, you know, it'd be, uh, uh, he'd be romping around the stage and hopping on one foot and, uh, all right. And, uh, that kind of ended one day when he hopped across the drums in front of me on one foot and lost his balance and tumbled into the kit. Oh, but, uh, uh, fortunately I was, you know, on a riser, so it didn't all come.
00:27:44
Speaker
Wow. But, you know, I guess he thought, well, maybe, ah you know, everything in its time and that time has passed. And Rich played great. I mean, he's got the double neck still and he played all the parts. And I was I was very happy because being a guitar guitar player, I watched him and I always liked to Rich has a kind of a cool sort of unique style that I like. you know Well, he does. of um One of my one of my friends, actually, the guy we'll talk about a little later, Gary, he said, da you know, he said, you guys have such a prairie sound, you know, Yeah, and then it's Richard's guitar. It's the very expansive, very full, you know, and he moves between the 12 and the six quite regularly and and really smoothly. And ah yeah, Richard's been the anchor, you know, ah Ronnie has been all over the stage. That was never Richard's thing, you know, and my arms are flying around and things like that. But that was
00:28:34
Speaker
Richard was he was just taking care of taking care of business and um and that's kind of still the way it is. Yeah well he's got a lot to do. He does indeed. And then the other thing I noticed about it was there was quite a few funny moments still you guys you know you're kind of jovial and goofing around a bit and and there was a few good laughs.
00:28:54
Speaker
you know it's more It's more rewarding to hear people laugh than it is to hear them applaud. and that's ah so ah Both Ronnie and I, you know it's ah and and Rich every now and again will interject something and crack people up, but you know we've got a few stock lines to get the ball rolling, but then it's basically ah an improv from there on in and between Ronnie and I, and its ah it's great fun. That's what the most fun is.
00:29:20
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, good. and And then the other thing I noticed is, you know, the audience was really appreciative, but there was a lot of older people there and they've kind of aged along with you and those songs are in their heart and they were singing along and it's a very forgiving, appreciative, gracious audience. Yes. Well, Lord Forgiving is very apt.
00:29:36
Speaker
yeah At least we feel that, you know, we know when we mess up. yeah But I'm actually at the point where I kind of understand that the audience kind of likes to see ah you mess up once in a while, especially if you're seniors and because they're seniors themselves and they know how it feels. Well, it's true. And and again, they're they're very forgiving. They're not they're not there to to judge you. it's not you know it's No, that's right. No, so it's it's a great relationship, you know, I mean, that's what and also that's what any kind of performance is, right? It's the relationship between the audience and the performer and and there is no wall. So but with us in the audience, it's wide open in between us. And that's ah that's a lovely feeling. Today, I'm very honored to have as my special guest Canadian icon, rock guitar virtuoso, Frank Marino. I came at music originally like because I'd been a drummer, then I became a guitar player.
00:30:31
Speaker
I didn't come at music looking at guitar players. okay It wasn't like, um wow, I like that band because I like happen to like Johnny Winter, or I like that band because I happen to like what the guitarist is doing. I was liking the music as a total. right And the music as a total, well, yeah, happened to have Johnny Winter in one of the one of the pieces of music, happened to have Jimi Hendrix in the other. and um The Allman Brothers was a group that I liked very much, and they happened to have Wayne Allman. Santana was a group I liked very much. They happened to have Carlos Santana. So the guitarist thing, whereas whereas today, or maybe later on in the 70s, people started to do music because they liked a certain instrumentalist.
00:31:20
Speaker
and they wanted to be like that guy. That really wasn't what motivated me. It was more the music in total and it happened to be guitar. And then of course you want to have a distinct sound in it amongst all of that too. You want to be your own sound. Well that's where the mishmash comes in. yeah yeah
00:31:40
Speaker
That's where you say You know, well, I really like this jazz that Larry Carlton does. yeah and i and And I really like this this rock that Jimi Hendrix does. and I really like this blues that Johnny Winter does. and I really like this slide that Dwayne Allman does. And I really like this the harmony guitars that Quicksilver Messenger Service do with with John Cipollina and Gary Duncan. yeah you know So that mishmash and even the the Grateful Dead with Jerry Garcia,
00:32:09
Speaker
uh... you know that mishmash gets all put together as the as the guitar but then there's all the other music that i like which really have nothing to do with guitar like the beetles and pretty much everybody from the sixties so you put it all together and and i i also had influences uh... you know from uh... my mother happens to be syrian so when i was growing up i was listening to look for Arabic records. So there's that whole Arabic influence in the music as well. Very cool. So what made you decide you could make a career out of it? Cause I mean, you became a guitar slinger pretty early. I mean, you, you were here in the late sixties, early seventies and you're barely 20 years old, not even 20 years old. Well, I was, I actually started at 15, at 14, 15. And I made my first album at 16 and going on 17. It wasn't me that decided these things.
00:33:10
Speaker
there were people around me. I was a bit of a basket case. Okay. I had come out of the sixties. I had experimented with a lot of the sixties things. Uh, and I, and I got, and I got a little screwed up. So I was a bit of a basket case that required attention. And so there was a lot of people around me,
00:33:33
Speaker
that kind of handled me, you know, put Frank here, put Frank there. Hey, what happens if we put Frank in front of this crowd? ok You know, that's how the career thing happened. I was never career oriented. I was never like, even afterwards when it became a career, I was never thinking, gee, this will be good for the career. You know, like it it wasn't something, it's something that happened to me, not that I chased.
00:34:02
Speaker
Interesting. You make an interesting point because I often ask people, you know, what, how much of what you did was planned or happenstance or just an accident. And for you, I guess it was pretty much the latter, right? Just sort of came along. Oh yeah. play Even, even the music itself, uh, point. Every album I've ever done, we walked into the studio with zero songs. oh And so I would say to the guys,
00:34:29
Speaker
Give me five minutes and I'll write a song. Oh gee, I had no idea. And so I'd write this song while they were having a pizza or something and i'd then they'd come in and I'd say, okay, here's how it goes. And there it's almost like you were at band practice all the time. Yeah. You know, and I'd have to come up with these songs and here we were on these major labels that were spending huge amounts of money for the studio time and everything else. And not to mention they'd let me be the producer.
00:34:56
Speaker
So I had to come up with this stuff. And so everything was done spur of the moment, very, very improvised. And then all the gigs were improvised. There was never a set list. There was never like, okay, this is what we're going to play tonight. It was all super, super loosely influenced. well And, um, that's, that's, that's just me. And I'm still that way today. I'm a jammer.
00:35:22
Speaker
One of the things I did that was very different from every other band we knew at the time, and we knew all the other bands that were coming up at the time, we had this thing where you were allowed to play as much as you wanted. I didn't tell drummers or bass players or anybody else, back off. I would say, just play. you know Even if it seems like overplaying, just play. We'll get it together.
00:35:49
Speaker
You know, that was the, the approach. It's still the approach. That's very 69 years old and I still approach it that way. Well, it's obviously worked for you and, and again, yeah, you don't want to get the, get the guys that are real good and then sort of harness them too much. You got to let them be who they want to be within the context of what you need to do. Right. Even, even more than that, because a lot of the times they don't believe they can be what they want to be. A lot of the times they think they have to back off.
00:36:18
Speaker
And you have to, or at least I did, I would be very, very much like pro go ahead and do what you want. Even if you think it doesn't work, please do experiment. You know, the only important thing was listen. So that happens a lot in jazz bands and happens very little in rock bands. Like in rock bands, I've noticed all the rock bands I've noticed is You've got this very scripted sort of song where the guy's waiting to do his solo and then he gives you his 16 bars. That happens a lot when you have these blues jams. you know and And we weren't like that. It was like, let's make a new song out of it every night. Let's make it different all the time, you know not get stuck in the staleness of it. I remember when I was ah was asked to play for April Wine.
00:37:14
Speaker
to do a song for them called So Bad. Yeah, and the whole world's going crazy. Yeah, that's right. And when I went to their session, it was so different than my session. It was like, wow, it was like I was entering some kind of weird cult or something. The way the producer ran everything and it was also scripted and okay, I want you to play here and I want you to play that. And I want it to be this way and I want it to be that way.
00:37:45
Speaker
Well, I did my thing, but I was i was struck at how how how it was very very stodgy. you know like they didn't ah In our sessions, it was like a big party. right you know Everybody was allowed in, and pizzas were being ordered, and people were having a party while we were making the record. yeah In these other sessions, it was all business.
00:38:07
Speaker
Right. Every time I went somewhere else. So you felt a little stifled sort of musically? Well, I feel like they wanted me to be stifled, and but I didn't want to be. So I would just do what I wanted to do and leave it to them to make it fit. Right. You know, and I think it turned out okay. You know, the the few times I did those things, you know, I think it turned out okay. But yeah this is what happens when you're, you're given the opportunity to be your own producer.
00:38:37
Speaker
Which I was from the very, very beginning. And so my idea was, look, I've got a philosophy about life in general. If you're going to do something, let's say paint a wall or or wash a floor or play a guitar or whatever, if you're going to drive a car, if you're going to do something, you're going to be doing it. So you might as well do it the best way possible. You might as well give it a hundred percent.
00:39:06
Speaker
Like, why bother mailing it in, you know? And then the Excel. And the hockey fans, we see we see that a lot in hockey teams where the guys mail it in and we get very frustrated because we, you know, well there you go invested all our time. Yeah. No, but you make a good point about the studio though, because I mean, if if you bring Frank Marino in on ah on a studio thing, you got to let him be Frank. I mean, that's why you're asking him to come there, right? Right. So you just do your Frank saying we're good. Right. Yeah.
00:39:36
Speaker
even if it kind of doesn't fit. When I've done records for blues artists and Mike Varney, we did some blues songs for you know Albert King and Stevie Ray Vaughan and a couple of others. I always wanted to put my own my own mark on it, which is that mishmash of everything I've ever learned. yeah I remember when we first did New York,
00:39:59
Speaker
And we first did l LA and we first did our hometown at the Montreal forum. Okay. Like the the big show, right? Every time I did that for the first time, when I was still stupid, okay, I would say, okay, it's, it's New York. So we're going to do, we're going to give it some extra this or that, or we're going to get the lights to do this. So, you know, there'd be some kind of plan because it was the big show or the big homecoming. Right.
00:40:26
Speaker
And every single time we did that, it went badly. So I learned pretty quickly, just don't do that. Just be, it doesn't matter where you are, doesn't matter whether it's New York or Los Angeles, just do what you do right and it'll all work out in the end.
00:40:45
Speaker
Thanks for checking out these short bits from my much longer conversations with previous liner notes guests. Don't forget you can listen to each full interview at either linernotes.ca or on any podcast platforms. Just search for liner notes revealing chats with Canada's retro music makers. Until next time, I'm Dan Hare.